The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Glenn Greenwald Leaks ｜ 6⧸2⧸25

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00:00:30.220 Hey everybody, how's it going this afternoon?

00:00:33.080 Thanks for joining me.

00:00:34.440 I am Oren McIntyre.

00:00:37.520 Recently, footage leaked out of the journalist Glenn Greenwald onto the internet

00:00:43.800 where he was involved in some kind of pretty salacious sex video.

00:00:49.640 There was a lot of confusion when this first happened.

00:00:52.860 A mixture of people who seemed to be shocked.

00:00:56.280 Simultaneously, people scrambling to decide whether

00:00:58.720 they should be defending Glenn Greenwald

00:01:00.740 or condemning Glenn Greenwald.

00:01:04.580 Portraying him as a victim.

00:01:06.000 Portraying him as a perpetrator.

00:01:08.820 Speculation on whether or not he actually released it himself

00:01:11.580 or whether this was blackmail.

00:01:13.240 For Glenn's continued stance on different international issues.

00:01:17.900 And I wanted to talk about this today because I think that this is not a particularly nuanced issue.

00:01:25.280 I mean, we need to break it down.

00:01:26.820 We need to understand it.

00:01:27.960 But there's a pretty easy answer here that allows us to both acknowledge that Glenn Greenwald has done some really great work

00:01:35.040 while simultaneously understanding that perhaps people releasing this had bad motivations.

00:01:41.360 But that doesn't mean that what was contained in the video is okay.

00:01:45.820 And ultimately, that this is something that conservatives should be somehow defending or saying,

00:01:52.120 oh, this isn't any of our business.

00:01:53.720 We should notice this.

00:01:55.120 Whatever happens in the privacy of a bedroom.

00:01:57.320 Like, there's a lot of those lines out there.

00:01:59.460 And I think we really need to unpack this because there was a lot of undue confusion

00:02:04.160 about how to view what should be a relatively simple issue.

00:02:07.960 So we're going to dive into that today.

00:02:09.840 But before we do, let's hear about the Blaze's newest documentary.

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00:03:16.380 All right.

00:03:17.100 So like I said, this video came out of Glenn Greenwald.

00:03:20.280 A couple things.

00:03:21.500 First, I did not see the video, and I have had it described to me.

00:03:27.980 Several people have described it was in the video.

00:03:30.580 I've seen a still or two from the video, but I'm just not subjecting myself to watching that video.

00:03:35.660 Sorry.

00:03:36.060 That's just not something I'm willing to do, even for you guys.

00:03:39.220 I love you, but I'm not watching Glenn Greenwald's sex videos for you.

00:03:43.340 Second, a lot of people, when this first came out, speculated that what was being released

00:03:53.680 was being released by Glenn Greenwald as part of some kind of fetish.

00:03:57.820 Now, to be clear, obviously, Glenn Greenwald has a humiliation fetish from this video.

00:04:03.860 Again, I haven't seen it, but I'll just describe to you what's been described to me.

00:04:08.360 Apparently, in this video, Glenn Greenwald is wearing a dress while a large black man is doing 0.54

00:04:15.040 relatively horrible things to him or having him do terrible things.

00:04:19.400 He's like dominating him, having like lick bodily fluids off the floor and toes and all

00:04:25.120 kinds of really gross stuff.

00:04:27.240 Apparently, there's also drug paraphernalia in the background.

00:04:30.380 People have speculated that one was a meth type.

00:04:34.220 Again, I'm not sure, but it seems like that has not been refuted by Greenwald as far as

00:04:40.720 I can tell.

00:04:42.100 And so there's a lot of really unsettling stuff going on.

00:04:46.380 Now, as to whether or not Glenn Greenwald released this video on purpose, because that's

00:04:52.400 like part of the fetish.

00:04:53.580 It's a humiliation fetish.

00:04:55.240 Maybe he was commanded to do this.

00:04:57.580 That's part of the whole role play.

00:04:58.820 That is something I guess that some people do do as part of this fetish.

00:05:04.500 I'm doubtful that that's the case.

00:05:07.160 I think Glenn Greenwald is perfectly aware of what this video might do if it had been

00:05:13.360 made public.

00:05:14.460 And so it's something that he ultimately probably would not want out there, even if that is

00:05:20.100 part of this fetish.

00:05:20.920 Maybe he is so obsessed with that that he ultimately put it out there himself.

00:05:25.360 But again, I seriously doubt it.

00:05:27.500 Now, a lot of the reason people said that is he eventually did retweet the video after

00:05:33.080 it had been put out.

00:05:34.280 I believe he did that.

00:05:35.680 And from his statement, it seemed like he did that to take ownership of the moment.

00:05:41.700 And we'll talk about that in a second.

00:05:43.860 But this was like kind of the, oh, well, you can't do this to me because I don't need to

00:05:48.380 be ashamed about this.

00:05:49.620 So I'll just put it out to, again, maybe he did.

00:05:53.520 Maybe ultimately that was all part of the thing.

00:05:55.460 But the timing of the release was also very interesting.

00:05:59.120 It was the same day that he was supposed to have a big appearance on Tucker Carlson that

00:06:02.840 was going to be focusing on some criticism of Israel, as a lot of people have speculated

00:06:07.680 that that was the motivation for this being leaked against his will.

00:06:12.040 And given the way that people often attack Glenn for the stances that he takes there, that's

00:06:20.240 not a wild speculation.

00:06:22.580 So I guess you can hash out for yourself as to whether you think Glenn Greenwald would

00:06:28.780 produce this himself.

00:06:30.880 He would release this himself as part of this.

00:06:33.280 Or if ultimately this was a leak, I believe it to be a leak, but I can't entirely rule

00:06:39.540 out the alternative.

00:06:41.080 So I'm not going to call you crazy for thinking that Glenn might release this as kind of part

00:06:45.680 of his larger sexual desires.

00:06:48.740 But I'm doubtful.

00:06:50.340 I think that this was probably released involuntarily by people who are hoping to hurt Glenn Greenwald.

00:06:56.460 So a few other things before we get into this.

00:06:59.760 A lot of people are going to make this about Israel, Palestine, whatever.

00:07:02.640 And I'm sure that is the motivation for a lot of people.

00:07:05.420 In fact, we'll talk about why some people seems to jump up and defend him or attack him

00:07:13.440 seem to be mostly based on their position on that issue.

00:07:17.200 That's not going to be the context in which I'm going to be talking about this.

00:07:20.860 So if that's your whole thing, if that literally frames your entire worldview, which it seems

00:07:25.900 to for a lot of people these days, even people who are supposed to be mainly focused on

00:07:30.220 American politics, you won't be finding that here.

00:07:33.320 A few other things to say before we get deeper into kind of an analysis of the responses and

00:07:39.980 everything else.

00:07:40.640 I've had Glenn Greenwald on the show, and I want to say at the top that Glenn has been

00:07:47.160 nothing but personally kind to me.

00:07:50.560 He came on the show when the show was very small.

00:07:53.540 I wasn't on the blaze.

00:07:54.540 He was relatively a pretty small operation, and he gave me his time.

00:08:01.820 He was very kind.

00:08:03.140 I think one of the reasons a lot of people like Glenn Greenwald is because he has been

00:08:08.300 the rare liberal progressive journalist who has tried to make inroads with the right.

00:08:14.860 He has seemed to keep some level of principle being willing to attack the left.

00:08:19.460 I mean, he even got thrown off of his own paper that he helped to found, the Intercept,

00:08:24.540 his own outlet, because he was willing to take stands against the left that were unpopular.

00:08:30.580 And so he has gained a lot of credibility, and he was willing to come on my show again

00:08:35.900 and wanting to build bridges.

00:08:38.320 It was very explicit about that, even though, again, I was not a major figure.

00:08:42.440 So I have nothing personally bad to say about Glenn Greenwald.

00:08:46.960 In our interactions, he's been nothing but kind and gracious.

00:08:50.880 Even knowing a number of stances that I have, I think that ultimately he would very vehemently

00:08:56.340 disagree with and obviously address directly his lifestyle, he was still willing to have

00:09:01.400 a discussion with me.

00:09:02.740 And so I just want to get that out front and say that Glenn has obviously done a lot of work,

00:09:09.620 broken a lot of stories, held to a number of principles, and has been willing to build

00:09:14.880 bridges with people who otherwise he would probably not usually think of himself as like

00:09:21.920 an ally with.

00:09:23.040 So I just want to get that out of the way.

00:09:24.740 Also, to be clear, none of us want our worst moments shared out there.

00:09:30.860 And releasing someone's, if this was released to blackmail Glenn Greenwald, which I believe

00:09:36.360 it was, or not blackmail, but to denigrate Glenn Greenwald.

00:09:39.880 Well, obviously, that's terrible.

00:09:42.100 Revenge porn is terrible.

00:09:43.620 Nobody wants their worst moments out there.

00:09:45.700 Obviously, the best thing would be for us to not have those moments, but we've all sinned

00:09:50.020 and fallen short.

00:09:51.120 And so these type of attacks are gross and malicious.

00:09:56.180 And while I'm going to do a lot of disagreeing with Glenn Greenwald in this show, I do want

00:10:02.840 to make it clear that this was not okay to be released, that his privacy was violated,

00:10:09.860 the people involved are not good actors, and what Glenn did does not excuse what they did,

00:10:17.760 and what they did does not excuse what Glenn did.

00:10:20.980 So just to clarify all of those things before we get deeper into this.

00:10:24.980 All right, so that said, this video, like I said, revealed some pretty lurid behavior

00:10:31.740 by Glenn Greenwald.

00:10:33.300 Honestly, the kind of stuff that a lot of gay guys are into, and that was kind of, I think,

00:10:40.220 the first thing that shocked the sensibilities of a lot of conservatives.

00:10:45.200 You know, the image that has been sold to America in general is the idea that a gay relationship

00:10:53.800 is just like a straight relationship, and, you know, they do all the normal things that

00:10:57.780 you would imagine.

00:10:59.300 You know, they really just want to come home and, like, you know, have a normal nuclear 0.82

00:11:03.180 family, and, like, that's the whole, you know, storyline that was sold, the will and grace

00:11:08.440 storyline of kind of gay marriage was what a lot of people had imbibed, and I think this

00:11:14.060 even made its way to conservatives, especially as more and more openly gay people started joining

00:11:21.940 the conservative movement.

00:11:23.800 Whatever people tell you, the tendency is to ratchet towards the direction of the new

00:11:31.460 people entering the movement, not the other way around.

00:11:34.340 This doesn't mean you can't convert people.

00:11:36.660 It doesn't mean people can't join your movement.

00:11:38.900 It does mean that when you let people join without them actually repudiating their former

00:11:44.240 beliefs and lifestyles, when you don't actually repent, then you end up dragging people towards

00:11:51.240 you, not the other way around.

00:11:53.500 And the thing is that a lot of unrepentant homosexuals have joined the conservative movement

00:12:00.760 and been given prominent places in the conservative movement.

00:12:03.660 And this did not make conservatives, or that does not make them, like, super conservative.

00:12:10.320 It actually just made conservatives more accepting of what they were doing, because conservatives

00:12:16.940 still had, like, this will and grace, you know, McDonald's version of homosexuality.

00:12:22.400 But the honest truth is that this is a sexual deviation.

00:12:27.400 You know, this is a sin that the Bible specifically calls out.

00:12:30.520 Now, there are many sexual sins that the Bible calls out, but this is chief among them.

00:12:35.600 This is a big one.

00:12:37.200 And it's living an open rebellion against God's order.

00:12:40.700 And so it's hard to do that and be a conservative.

00:12:44.380 If you like lower taxes and free speech, that's great.

00:12:48.220 But that doesn't actually make you a real right winger.

00:12:52.160 It doesn't actually make you even a real conservative.

00:12:55.260 Those are just kind of libertarian positions.

00:12:57.960 They have nothing to do.

00:13:00.080 It's closer to the right than the radical progressivism that a lot of gay men used to hold. 0.80

00:13:06.080 But as gay men have been pushed lower and lower down the oppression totem pole on the left,

00:13:12.600 they found that maybe they might have some more interest, you know, elsewhere.

00:13:18.120 And they've tried to fit themselves into the right.

00:13:20.540 Now, Glenn Greenwald, I don't think, was ever one of these guys who was trying to portray himself

00:13:24.300 as ultimately conservative.

00:13:25.760 He was always a progressive lefty.

00:13:27.700 He's remained a progressive lefty.

00:13:29.800 The fact that the progressive left has gotten even more woke and more radical is something

00:13:34.440 he didn't like.

00:13:35.360 He didn't like a lot of the attacks on free speech and journalism and other things.

00:13:39.700 And that's the parts where he built those bridges and those alliances inside the conservative

00:13:44.100 movement.

00:13:44.720 But he never repudiated his leftism.

00:13:47.060 He never repudiated his progressive tendencies.

00:13:50.740 And, of course, he never repudiated or repented of his sexual inclinations.

00:13:56.560 And, you know, this is a huge problem because, you know, you can we have a hard time on the

00:14:03.280 right and especially with conservatives of drawing a line between a co-belligerent and

00:14:10.100 an ally.

00:14:11.260 Co-belligerents are people that happen to be fighting on your side at any given moment.

00:14:15.540 You guys happen to have a common enemy, an overlapping interest for a certain amount

00:14:21.580 of time.

00:14:22.260 There's nothing wrong with having a co-belligerent. 1.00

00:14:24.820 That's actually a good thing.

00:14:26.800 You don't need to run around and attack people who are already attacking the people that you

00:14:31.580 need to fight against.

00:14:32.680 However, that does not make them your ally.

00:14:35.760 It does not make them someone who is actually ultimately on your side.

00:14:40.080 Now, you can be friendly with them.

00:14:41.760 You can try to build relationships in some cases they might even come over to your side.

00:14:47.480 But if they don't, you don't just like change your beliefs or welcome them in and make them

00:14:52.780 leaders in your movement because you want like, I don't know, just a numerical advantage or

00:14:58.700 you want the social cachet that that person will bring.

00:15:01.260 Because ultimately, like I said, they're going to pull you their direction.

00:15:05.320 You're not going to pull them your direction.

00:15:07.380 And I think Glenn Greenwald is pretty good proof of that, despite his willingness to

00:15:11.520 talk like people, to talk to people like me.

00:15:14.440 Ultimately, Glenn wasn't someone who was going to change who he was or, you know, what kind

00:15:20.460 of lifestyle he was involved in.

00:15:22.960 Ultimately, that's his choice.

00:15:24.260 And that doesn't mean he can't still be a co-belligerent. 0.80

00:15:26.700 That doesn't mean Tucker Carlson shouldn't talk to him about, you know, the Israeli conflict

00:15:32.300 or whatever.

00:15:33.220 But like, you know, I'm not going to mistake Glenn with someone who ultimately shares my

00:15:38.200 values and is on my side.

00:15:40.180 But a lot of conservatives have.

00:15:42.280 And so we saw a lot of people like Charlie Kirk and others rushing out and saying, oh,

00:15:46.300 Glenn Greenwald, he's he's this great guy.

00:15:49.600 And and what he does in the bedroom just doesn't affect you.

00:15:52.800 That's his personal life.

00:15:53.920 And that has nothing to do with with, you know, his his political activism or whatever.

00:15:58.620 And this is just bad, like this is just stupid and bad and ugly.

00:16:04.280 Obviously, that's not true.

00:16:06.600 It's very clear that ultimately the behavior that Glenn Greenwald is engaged in is morally

00:16:14.000 reprehensible.

00:16:14.820 And you can't just sit there and pretend like it's not because he happened to do some work

00:16:20.380 that you like.

00:16:21.040 Now, again, that doesn't take away from the work that Glenn Greenwald has done.

00:16:24.880 But you have to be able to ultimately look at what he is doing and say that is not OK,

00:16:32.160 especially especially because Glenn Greenwald's response to this was not to be apologetic

00:16:38.660 or to be ashamed, but instead to turn around and say, no, I'm fine with this.

00:16:45.920 This is this is fine.

00:16:47.100 There's no problem with behavior in this video.

00:16:50.300 I don't want it out there.

00:16:51.420 It's supposed to be personal.

00:16:53.100 Right.

00:16:53.840 It's supposed to be something that that only I was supposed to see.

00:16:58.980 However, ultimately, what I'm doing here is totally justifiable.

00:17:02.180 The only problem was that it was leaked.

00:17:04.820 There's nothing wrong with me engaging in this behavior.

00:17:08.220 That's unrepentant.

00:17:09.520 And it's wrong on several levels.

00:17:11.660 I mean, Glenn is involved not just in sexual behavior, but in heavily degrading sexual behavior

00:17:17.880 that is homosexual in nature. 0.63

00:17:20.320 On top of this, there's drug use, apparently, in this video looks like pretty hardcore drug

00:17:26.760 use in this video.

00:17:29.280 Now, Glenn is somebody who has three children.

00:17:33.540 I believe he adopted.

00:17:34.740 He had, I guess I hate the word partner, but partner, I guess, is the right word here.

00:17:40.260 He had a male partner in Brazil.

00:17:42.420 He moved to Brazil.

00:17:44.480 I believe his partner died, which is horrible.

00:17:47.380 But, you know, they had three children, I believe, that they have adopted.

00:17:53.380 So there are multiple children in his household.

00:17:55.720 And from what we can tell, it looks like Glenn is involved in bringing in gay prostitutes and 1.00

00:18:02.760 doing drugs with them while he's got kids in the house.

00:18:07.620 I mean, there's just the moral problem, which is significant.

00:18:12.720 But there's also a child endangerment problem, which is horrible.

00:18:18.420 And conservatives can't sit around and talk about how they're pro-family and pro-family

00:18:24.820 values and they care about the well-being of children and they're worried about the victimization

00:18:29.400 of children unless somebody who did some reporting that they like or, like, showed up on some shows

00:18:35.000 that they like unless, like, they're the ones endangering children and then it's okay.

00:18:40.760 Again, this is not great behavior and it needs to be condemned, ultimately.

00:18:47.820 This is not good.

00:18:49.220 Now, Glenn defended himself by saying, okay, well, but Donald Trump did bad stuff and you

00:18:56.020 guys still like Donald Trump.

00:18:57.340 And to be fair to Glenn, yes, there is a truth that Donald Trump has had a checkered past,

00:19:06.180 ultimately, you know, in and out of marriages, it would seem.

00:19:10.720 But the comparison falls flat on a number of levels.

00:19:14.680 One, it seems like for the most part, Trump's behavior is in the past.

00:19:18.540 I mean, if Trump is actively cheating on his wife right now, that's a problem.

00:19:23.120 And I would be the first person to say so.

00:19:25.640 There would be no hesitation there.

00:19:28.240 If, you know, Trump was doing a bunch of meth with his kids and, you know, being in the

00:19:34.540 house and it's like the only adult in the house, I would be saying something like that

00:19:38.980 would be a problem, right?

00:19:40.620 So it doesn't quite hold water.

00:19:43.720 Also, you know, while what Trump did was wrong, you know, there is a different nature to the

00:19:54.320 type of sexual behavior going on here.

00:19:58.120 Trump's behavior is a sin, but it was sinning within the confines of a natural relationship,

00:20:05.220 the kind of relationship that God made between man and woman.

00:20:08.660 It should be kept inside a marriage. 0.83

00:20:11.140 That's what it's for.

00:20:12.660 But ultimately, it's not as great a problem as when one is actively living a lifestyle

00:20:19.900 that is directly in defiance of God's order.

00:20:23.560 Again, that doesn't make what Trump did okay.

00:20:25.640 And it doesn't mean it's not a sin.

00:20:26.860 And it doesn't mean that he doesn't need to repent and have forgiveness as we all do.

00:20:31.320 I want to remind you, by the way, this is not a holier than now moment.

00:20:34.440 I am someone who has sinned very many times and is in desperate need of a savior.

00:20:38.220 And so are you.

00:20:39.580 And so is Glenn Greenwald.

00:20:41.020 And that's kind of the reason we're having this discussion.

00:20:44.360 We're not I'm not talking to you about this because, like, it's time to bag on Glenn Greenwald

00:20:49.660 or tell him that, oh, I'm so much better than him.

00:20:52.500 The reason we're having this discussion is that Glenn has embraced this behavior that

00:20:56.900 in his pride, he and ironic, I guess, because this is now officially Pride Month, the American

00:21:02.840 Ramadan. But, you know, in his pride, Glenn has said double down and said, this behavior

00:21:09.260 is fine. There's nothing wrong with this behavior.

00:21:12.240 It is totally defensible.

00:21:13.980 And the only problem is that it got out.

00:21:16.620 The only problem is that someone shared this against my will.

00:21:19.700 Again, you can speculate as to whether or not it's against his will.

00:21:23.380 Certainly, I would imagine magnifying with your own platform will bring people to ask that

00:21:28.540 question. I believe it was against his own will, ultimately.

00:21:31.340 But that is not the only problem with what was happening in this video.

00:21:35.680 And the fact that conservatives had such a difficult time getting this right was rather

00:21:41.120 confusing. And it wasn't just conservatives, actually.

00:21:43.920 So, again, in the vein of people who like what Glenn Greenwald was doing, so they didn't,

00:21:51.160 you know, they immediately jumped to his defense.

00:21:54.260 You know, a lot of people like Jake Shields, who are like very against Israel, people like

00:22:00.440 Candace Owens, even to some extent, you know, a martyr maid were kind of jumping out there 0.99

00:22:08.180 and immediately defending behavior.

00:22:10.720 Or maybe they didn't ultimately defend the behavior.

00:22:13.180 But their first thought was to say, oh, well, don't worry about this.

00:22:18.660 Glenn Greenwald, what he does is his own business.

00:22:20.700 And you should be focusing on like his work against Israel, which just kind of shows you

00:22:26.600 like, no, that's not great, right?

00:22:28.140 Like that's that's not good either.

00:22:29.780 Right. And the fact that both, you know, these guys who really make their identity about kind

00:22:35.560 of being very aggressively anti-Israel and conservatives, both like leapt to defend Glenn

00:22:41.480 Greenwald in this moment, just because at some point he had said things that they agreed

00:22:46.020 with was it revealed a lot.

00:22:49.640 It revealed a lot.

00:22:50.480 And conservatives need to watch out for this, because, like I said, there's been a lot of

00:22:54.520 acceptance of, you know.

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00:23:28.880 Gay men in the conservative movement, there's been a lot of elevation of their voices inside

00:23:34.460 the conservative movement.

00:23:36.240 And again, it's not like you can't talk to these people.

00:23:38.260 It's not like ultimately if they aren't making changes or being persuaded that that you can't

00:23:43.940 work with them.

00:23:45.060 But the fact that so many have been, again, elevated inside the conservative movement means

00:23:50.420 that a lot of people, when something like this happens with Glenn Greenwald, they feel

00:23:55.780 compelled to like rush out and defend him.

00:23:58.400 And that's just obviously not something you should be engaged in.

00:24:02.260 This is not defensible behavior.

00:24:04.020 This is morally reprehensible behavior.

00:24:06.320 And if Glenn continues to engage with it without repentance, without turning to Christ, this

00:24:11.300 will doom his immortal soul.

00:24:12.860 And it will also very likely harm the young people who have been under his care.

00:24:18.560 And this adds a far more thorny topic that a lot of conservatives really don't want to get into, which is, you know, the adoption or the surrogacy of children by gay men.

00:24:30.860 And a lot of conservatives kind of accepted, again, gay men as like these, oh, they're just like straight couples. 0.53

00:24:39.000 It's just like a nuclear family.

00:24:40.360 Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm pronouncing nuclear like George Bush here.

00:24:45.140 But, you know, they're just like the normal family.

00:24:49.420 And so they'll just have children and they'll be just like you.

00:24:52.740 Like they'll just some kind of acquire children and they'll be just exactly like you are.

00:24:57.340 And that's very evidently not the case.

00:25:00.720 Most gay men who are in a gay marriage, they're not monogamous.

00:25:06.900 It's an open marriage pretty much by definition.

00:25:09.980 They also continue to engage in really risky lifestyles.

00:25:14.260 And so the idea that, like, you just get gay married and, you know, take on a few children and all of a sudden you're a conservative, that's not how it works.

00:25:24.380 That's not how it works at all.

00:25:26.760 And a lot of conservatives lied to themselves about the realities of the gay lifestyle and, you know, surrogacy and all this stuff.

00:25:35.820 And that has led to some pretty disastrous places.

00:25:39.660 Now, the good news is I think a number of conservatives have now turned the corner on surrogacy.

00:25:45.800 I mean, even on over the blaze here, there are several strong voices saying that surrogacy, you know, honestly, for gay or straight couples is an abomination and should not be involved.

00:25:56.500 Now, I don't know if Glenn Greenwald and his partner had a surrogate or if they I think they just adopted the children because they're older.

00:26:05.020 But either way, you know, this opens up the much thornier issue, something that a lot of conservatives, even though they all like really vehemently opposed this just a decade ago, you know, they don't want to talk about this issue.

00:26:19.200 But obviously, this draws a lot of questions as to whether or not, you know, there is an inherent problem with gay couples acquiring children, whether it be through adoption or surrogacy.

00:26:32.580 I think surrogacy is worse because it's, you know, at least the adoption argument, you can you can make the argument.

00:26:38.820 Oh, well, this kid wasn't going to get adopted otherwise.

00:26:41.040 He would just be in the system.

00:26:42.540 So at least he has a home, that kind of thing.

00:26:45.340 I don't agree with that argument.

00:26:47.020 I don't buy that argument, but at least it's something.

00:26:49.760 But the surrogacy is just gay men renting out women's wombs. 0.97

00:26:54.540 And like no one has a problem with that.

00:26:56.860 It's wild, like the people who talk about the handmaid's tale and how men are going to force women to reproduce because of the Christian theocracy that will be imposed. 0.98

00:27:06.400 No, we're like we literally have that now.

00:27:08.500 It's just gay surrogacy. 1.00

00:27:09.900 Well, they like two gay men rent a woman so that they can use her body to steal and steal her child. 1.00

00:27:18.420 I mean, I guess technically they bought her child, but I don't think that's it should be legal.

00:27:22.080 Like, I don't I don't care how much money you give someone you have not buying their child is not OK like that.

00:27:28.620 Like that doesn't somehow the voluntary nature of the transaction is not all right.

00:27:32.780 Just in the way that like, oh, well, two consenting men doing what they want in their bedroom makes it OK.

00:27:38.080 Like, no, actually, that turns out it doesn't.

00:27:40.560 Now, that doesn't mean that I want like, oh, yeah, the Stasi to go break in every gay man's door and find out whether or not he's sodomizing somebody.

00:27:48.000 But ultimately, you know, that's not something we should accept as a society as being normal just because I don't want to send, you know, some puritanical police force to go check and make sure everyone's having the appropriate type of sex in their home.

00:28:04.840 Doesn't mean that like as a society, we should go out of our way to give people a married status, allow them these like legal advantages, allow them to have children to adopt or to purchase children like that's not OK.

00:28:21.860 Like and for some reason, this is a hard line for people to grasp because, well, let's be honest, the logic is it kind of has a certain gradient to to it.

00:28:32.400 It has a certain direction. So people who are told, well, you know, we're not supposed to care about what happens in someone's bedroom ultimately say, oh, well, then they should just be given the same treatment as everyone else.

00:28:46.160 We should just elevate that behavior to the same as everybody else is like, no, you can say, OK, we're not going to go out of our way to like knock down doors to check and see what type of sex people are having without being like at and at the same time, we're going to elevate everything they do to being normal.

00:29:02.160 Like like a normal what a normal heterosexual couple does. And that barrier is hard, even for conservatives to ultimately like erect for some reason between like, OK, yeah, I don't want the state hunting down everyone's bedroom behavior.

00:29:15.940 And actually, the public square is a place where we only elevate the type of behavior we want to see.

00:29:21.160 And so intact heterosexual Christian families are the things we're actually going to honor, the things we're actually going to enshrine in law, the things we're actually going to elevate and protect.

00:29:32.120 You know, it's not that hard. It really shouldn't be that hard to to understand the differentiation here.

00:29:38.380 But apparently it's extremely hard. And guys like Charlie Kirk are out there making, you know, they have a really hard time grasping this.

00:29:45.020 I'm also seeing people throw around, you know, Bible versus Matt Taibbi was attacking Jason Whitlock today saying, how could you condemn Glenn Greenwald's behavior?

00:29:56.540 How could you call it sinful? Here's a passage about Jesus saying, you know, don't judge lest you be judged yourself.

00:30:04.380 The problem is at the end of that passage that Matt Taibbi was quoting, Jesus says, go and sin no more.

00:30:10.520 Go and sin no more. And sorry, you don't get to quote scripture.

00:30:15.800 You don't get to pull scripture out to try to say, oh, don't judge Glenn for this behavior and then ignore the last part of the passage, the like linchpin of the passage, the whole point of the story with Jesus in that moment where he turns to the woman and says, go and sin no more.

00:30:33.220 No, I'm not going to stone you. I'm not going to condemn you.

00:30:38.680 I am going to call these Pharisees who are acting as if they have never sinned, but I'm still going to turn to you and say, stop doing what you're doing.

00:30:48.360 But that's not what's happening here.

00:30:50.840 Glenn is not walking away from what he did. He is not ashamed of what he did.

00:30:55.040 He's not asking forgiveness. He's not expressing regret.

00:30:57.580 Now, again, ultimately, to some degree, Glenn is a victim here.

00:31:01.380 Like these things were leaked against his will.

00:31:03.660 The behavior is awful and very suspicious.

00:31:07.100 The timing is very suspicious.

00:31:09.080 People acted maliciously, and it's fine to acknowledge that.

00:31:12.780 It's fine to note that truth without them turning around and endorsing what he did.

00:31:18.800 However, again, very difficult for conservatives to grasp this difference, and we need to address this head on, because if you continue to normalize this behavior, if you continue to say, as conservatives, we believe that this is fine and you can engage in this and you can have children in your household.

00:31:37.840 And even though the way that this stuff came to light is gross itself and the people who did it should be charged, there are laws against this, and they should apply to them, ultimately, the behavior in the video is unacceptable.

00:31:52.720 And while I still appreciate the work that Glenn has done and the way he has conducted himself professionally, personally, this is not okay, and you're not going to get me to pretend that it's okay.

00:32:03.220 And no conservatives should be pretending it's okay, and this should raise a lot of alarm bells about elevating people who live this type of lifestyle in conservative circles.

00:32:15.140 That said, I want to transition to something else, which is very related, which is something that happened on Twitter yesterday.

00:32:25.100 Again, I don't always love living on Twitter for the show here, but this one is directly related to the discussion we're having.

00:32:32.980 So I think it's worth talking about this post really quick.

00:32:37.560 So Dave Rubin, obviously, is somebody who has himself been elevated in conservative circles.

00:32:46.060 Dave is a guy I watched early on when I was discovering kind of internet politics, when I was discovering all these IDW guys, Jordan Peterson and all these other guys, the people that Joe Rogan was bringing on.

00:33:02.980 Guys like Sam Harris, guys like Sam Harris and all that.

00:33:06.160 And there was this strange moment where it seemed, and at the time I was very normie, conservative, and for a moment it seemed like, oh man, we are winning stuff because guys like Dave Rubin are coming over to our side, right?

00:33:20.960 Dave Rubin is this guy who was part of the Young Turks.

00:33:25.820 If you didn't know, he was part of this left-wing thing.

00:33:27.960 He was like this stand-up comedian who was a new atheist, and he was gay, and he was on the left.

00:33:33.540 He was this radical progressive, and he was on board with all the Young Turks stuff, attacking the right, attacking Christianity, that kind of stuff. 0.99

00:33:42.960 However, he had this moment, you know, he had one of these cancellation moments.

00:33:47.500 He saw what, you know, Sam Harris, I think, get attacked on Bill Maher for criticizing Islam, and a lot of leftists jumping on the board with that.

00:33:54.980 And he said, oh, whoa, hey, you know, what are you doing?

00:33:57.360 You know, this is bad.

00:33:58.820 And so he kind of had this moment where he started coming to the right.

00:34:01.420 He started talking to all these people when the intellectual dark web, the classical liberals started to consolidate.

00:34:10.260 He was a key figure in that, so I watched a lot of Dave Rubin.

00:34:13.140 I haven't watched Dave Rubin in many years, so I want to make it clear.

00:34:16.500 I am not familiar with the current Dave Rubin lore.

00:34:19.680 When Dave Rubin and his partner purchased children, I expressed that that was bad, and he blocked me on Twitter.

00:34:31.080 And so I haven't just, I just never see what Dave posts.

00:34:34.120 The only reason I saw this is because it was sent to me.

00:34:37.780 And so I'm just not familiar.

00:34:40.600 I'm very familiar with a lot of Dave Rubin's work from earlier, but I just haven't seen it in the last few years.

00:34:48.960 So the reason I'm showing this is that James Lindsay is doing his normal, like, woke right posting, right, whatever.

00:34:57.680 And normally, again, wouldn't matter.

00:34:59.920 He does it all day.

00:35:00.740 However, he's pulled Dave Rubin in.

00:35:02.500 And this matters because Dave is one of these people who has been elevated as a guy who has a lot of lifestyle problems that Glenn Greenwald also has.

00:35:11.320 He's been elevated to, like, a position of leadership on the right.

00:35:14.880 He goes to a lot of conferences.

00:35:16.360 He gives a lot of keynote speeches.

00:35:18.320 He's a guy with a lot of sway on the right.

00:35:21.460 And in a lot of ways, like I said, I watched a lot of Dave's content.

00:35:24.840 I enjoyed it.

00:35:26.140 I appreciate the intellectual journey he made in a lot of ways.

00:35:30.640 I think ultimately he even renounced his atheism, like his new atheism stuff.

00:35:35.020 I don't think he ever became a complete Christian, however.

00:35:38.140 And I think for pretty obvious reasons, you know, Dave is one of these guys who I think, like, went down the road of being a conservative and thought being a conservative meant getting gay married and having a house and, like, buying some kids.

00:35:52.640 And he didn't understand when there was a backlash against this behavior because he thought, like, that's what being conservative means.

00:36:00.920 That's what being right wing means.

00:36:02.660 Like, you know, like aping the behaviors of, like, a straight couple.

00:36:06.820 That's what will make him acceptable to people who are conservative.

00:36:11.640 And it's kind of clear that ultimately that that was a barrier to him.

00:36:16.480 Now, again, I have not seen his stuff recently.

00:36:18.300 So maybe he did become a Christian.

00:36:20.120 Maybe he's renounced some of this stuff.

00:36:21.400 Maybe he's completely walked away from the right and he's gone to never.

00:36:23.620 I just don't know.

00:36:24.900 I really just have not consumed a lot of Dave Rubin content in the last few years.

00:36:28.760 And he's blocked me on Twitter.

00:36:30.100 So, like, I just don't I just don't see it.

00:36:32.740 So I'm just not familiar.

00:36:33.600 However, it does seem that he's been pulled in by kind of what James Lindsay has been trying to do with the woke right.

00:36:40.240 And unfortunately, that's not really a surprise because, well, Dave Rubin's kind of the exact candidate for this, right?

00:36:46.560 He's actually someone who was a progressive leftist his entire life.

00:36:50.080 He's gay, married.

00:36:51.140 He's bought kids.

00:36:52.300 You know, he was a new atheist.

00:36:53.820 Maybe he's not anymore.

00:36:54.780 That's great if he's not.

00:36:55.920 But like, you know, a lot of this stuff kind of lines up for him.

00:37:00.140 Right.

00:37:00.440 And if, you know, the actual right comes into power, if like Christians have their beliefs in the public square, if we're actually living in a Christian country, then many of the things that Dave Rubin is involved in would not be publicly acceptable. 0.65

00:37:16.180 And so he's, I imagine, pretty worried about the fact that, you know, like an actual right wing, like people with real Christian values want to assert them like they want that to be the norm.

00:37:28.860 I know he says that.

00:37:30.120 I know he said that he wants that in the past.

00:37:31.760 But it seems like once it's actually happening, it's not so great because like a lot of, again, a lot of the Glenn Greenwald issues might apply to Dave Rubin.

00:37:41.940 Again, I don't know.

00:37:42.660 I don't know everything about his personal life.

00:37:44.260 But, you know, from what we've seen about, you know, many of the what a gay marriage is, it's hard to know.

00:37:53.280 It's just hard to know.

00:37:54.040 Again, I don't want to speculate about that because I don't know his personal life.

00:37:57.700 But you can understand why he would be worried about people, you know, you know, questioning what's going on here.

00:38:05.400 So we'll just click on James Lindsay's post here so we can see what he's agreeing with.

00:38:10.460 Just to read his thing here, he says, James has been more ahead of this than anyone else and sooner more and the sooner more people see the patterns, the better.

00:38:20.000 All right.

00:38:20.220 So what is James Lindsay talking about here?

00:38:22.700 He says, Robin DiAngelo woke left in 2012 and an approach based in critical theory calls into question the idea of that objectivity is desirable or even possible.

00:38:35.160 Orin McIntyre, completely woke right, completely objective analysis is unattainable and ultimately undesirable goal.

00:38:44.220 OK, so what what are we trying to do here?

00:38:46.280 Let's look at the quote he brought up from Robin DiAngelo.

00:38:51.020 One of the key, let's see, the highlighted space here.

00:38:54.580 An approach based on critical theory calls into question the idea that objectivity is desirable or even possible.

00:39:01.360 All right.

00:39:01.880 Let's look about look at my post that he's quoting here that he's comparing to it.

00:39:06.420 I say completely objective analysis is unattainable and ultimately undesirable goal.

00:39:10.880 When the most steely eyed Machiavellian realist is operating on a set of preexisting values and biases.

00:39:17.260 There's nothing wrong with that.

00:39:18.520 It's the only way that anyone ever beats the odds.

00:39:20.660 All right.

00:39:20.920 So what's what is James Lindsay trying to apply here?

00:39:23.600 He's trying to imply that me and Robin DiAngelo, we have the same idea.

00:39:28.620 We have the same exact outlook.

00:39:30.700 She's woke, right?

00:39:31.680 I'm woke or she's woke left and I'm woke, right?

00:39:34.280 And we just have the exact same belief on the truth and objectivity and all of these things.

00:39:39.920 This is a lie.

00:39:41.340 And James knows it's a lie.

00:39:43.100 He knows it's a lie because I have directly attacked an understanding of reality like the one that he is pointing to here.

00:39:52.800 So this is this is a bald face lie that James is telling and he knows he's a liar and he knows what he's doing.

00:39:59.860 And so the question is, does Dave Rubin understand what James is doing here?

00:40:06.920 I guess I'll break it down a little more.

00:40:08.480 So when I say in this post that it is very difficult for people to have truly objective analysis, what I'm pointing to is the simple fact that any and all of us, when we're engaged in political action, there's a tendency.

00:40:26.160 And of course, I'm someone who spends a lot of time on political theory.

00:40:28.760 I spend a lot of time analyzing things.

00:40:31.200 There's a temptation constantly for us to want to be in an objective analysis mode all the time, right?

00:40:39.500 I'm very smart, big brain.

00:40:41.400 I'm standing 5,000 feet above the whole thing.

00:40:44.500 I'm the one who has the bird's eye view and I am objectively analyzing everything that's going on.

00:40:50.880 I'm not one of those petty people who gets involved in politics or or takes any action or makes any decisions or takes any stands or joins any teams.

00:41:00.300 No, I'm I'm the rational centrist.

00:41:02.300 I'm the objective guy.

00:41:04.080 I have the hold on reality that no one else does.

00:41:06.880 And that's why everything I say is right, even though I'm never going to take any actions in real life.

00:41:11.040 And my whole point of this post was actually the funny thing about this post is in some ways I was attacking the idea of some people on my side who say that like, oh, well, ultimately, we just need to have this objective fact or fact based value free value neutral analysis of what's going on.

00:41:32.400 Now, ultimately, I do believe that some level of Machiavellian analysis is valuable, right?

00:41:39.120 Obviously, I engage on it in it on a regular basis.

00:41:41.700 It's part of what my channel is about.

00:41:43.300 So this is not a scenario where I'm like, oh, well, how could you ever be involved in trying to have some kind of objective analysis?

00:41:50.620 Again, I try to do it on a regular basis.

00:41:53.040 However, ultimately, I'm never going to have a completely objective analysis because I am on a side.

00:42:00.020 I want something to win and there's nothing wrong with that.

00:42:02.540 In fact, that's great because people who get entirely locked in to just trying to be objective never take action.

00:42:09.120 And what you need in a lot of political situations is action sitting there and philosophizing.

00:42:16.240 Again, I do it all the time.

00:42:17.380 It's it's something I enjoy doing, but it's not the only thing you do.

00:42:21.040 If it's the only thing your movement does, then ultimately this is just going to be completely neutral or it's not going to work like it's going to be completely ineffectual because you're obsessed with the analysis and you have no interest in like actually doing what you're supposed to do, actually taking action.

00:42:41.520 And if you get stuck in this mode of objective analysis entirely, it's not desirable because you will sometimes completely talk yourself out of doing anything useful.

00:42:52.580 Sometimes, no matter what the odds are, you just have to take action to defend your family, to defend your faith, to defend your community, to defend your values.

00:43:01.540 Like sometimes it doesn't matter what the odds are, you just have to take action.

00:43:06.580 Men of action are ultimately more valuable in pretty much everything from politics to warfare than men who are completely theoretical.

00:43:15.620 And I say this as someone who's very theoretical, right?

00:43:18.240 So I'm not attacking the idea of, you know, some kind of intellectual analysis or attempt to have a certain level of objective analysis.

00:43:26.900 But ultimately, action is what's going to matter.

00:43:30.480 Action is what's going to matter.

00:43:31.820 And so all I'm claiming here is that we need to focus not just on objective analysis, but action and that getting stuck in analysis is undesirable and that, you know, ultimately we can never have perfect information.

00:43:49.920 Everything we're doing is a model that's trying to simulate reality, right?

00:43:54.960 When we're doing this analysis, when we're trying to do this objective analysis, what we're doing is we're gathering the most information we can and then trying to build a model that allows us to make decisions as best as we can.

00:44:07.720 But the idiot is always the person who thinks their model is complete and perfect and totally objective.

00:44:13.900 And anyone who makes models for a living, like, will tell you, anyone who does this professionally will tell you that the dumbest thing in the world is to believe that the map is the terrain, right?

00:44:25.880 That the representation is the reality, that these are one and the same, and that you should treat them the same.

00:44:33.180 No, the map is never the territory.

00:44:36.320 That doesn't mean the map isn't valuable.

00:44:38.580 That doesn't mean that the map was not drawn with some level of objectivity.

00:44:42.360 But if you're on the terrain and there's something different than what's on the map, the map is not correct.

00:44:48.580 The terrain is correct.

00:44:50.400 The action you are taking in real life is the real thing, not the map.

00:44:55.980 And this is what guys like James don't get or what they need you not to get because their entire life is selling incomplete models to people, right?

00:45:04.560 Like, that's the whole thing that they do is sell incomplete models to paralyze people against taking action.

00:45:10.480 So, James doesn't understand the difference, or he doesn't want you to understand the difference, between the fact that there is objective truth, which I absolutely believe, and the fact that there is an epistemological impossibility to have complete and total information.

00:45:28.120 You can never have complete and total objective information on everything.

00:45:33.640 That's just not how the world works.

00:45:35.580 That doesn't mean there isn't objective truth.

00:45:37.820 And it doesn't mean that trying to build as objective a model as possible is not something you should be engaged in.

00:45:44.820 But the idea that you should always and only be engaged in trying to build a perfect novel model of objective analysis and that you should only act once you have a completely objective and total model for you to act under is stupid.

00:46:01.600 That was my whole point.

00:46:03.860 But James doesn't care because his job is to lie and smear people so he can control the right wing.

00:46:10.620 And he's pulling people like Dave Rubin in.

00:46:13.380 Now, again, I don't know.

00:46:14.780 I don't know if Dave Rubin just didn't bother to pay attention to what I said.

00:46:20.060 And he's just, like, parroting whatever his friend says, which, in that case, like, I get it.

00:46:25.240 Like, we've all shot out tweets that say, hey, this thing, you know, because I trust this guy and, you know, maybe that ultimately they got something wrong.

00:46:33.700 Like, we've all been there.

00:46:34.960 And if that's the case, then Dave should just say so and move on.

00:46:38.060 Or if he, like, went in like James with the specific purpose of, like, maliciously twisting what I said.

00:46:48.800 If that's the case, then that's pretty despicable behavior on the same level that James is involved in here.

00:46:56.020 Ultimately, or it just could be that Dave Rubin doesn't understand that, like, you can't, like, it's epistemologically impossible to have perfect knowledge.

00:47:06.480 Like, that's, you can't have complete, total, certain, objective knowledge.

00:47:12.300 That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

00:47:14.080 It just means you're a limited human being.

00:47:16.240 Right?

00:47:16.760 Like, that's all.

00:47:18.020 It's not denying reality or the, you know, whether or not we would want to understand reality or whether we want to build a model as close to reality as possible.

00:47:26.600 But what I don't believe is what woke leftists actually believe, which is that there is no objective reality, that you can construct reality however you see fit.

00:47:36.800 The whole point of critical theory is the idea that, like, you can go ahead and break down these structures and reassemble them how you like.

00:47:43.740 I obviously do not believe that at all.

00:47:45.960 I believe in God's truth and God's order.

00:47:48.120 I don't think that we, as humans, have the ability to understand all of it, though he has made a lot of it intelligible to us.

00:47:56.600 And to the degree that it's intelligible to us, we should seek to understand it and utilize that understanding in our decision-making process.

00:48:04.760 But that doesn't mean that we can turn around and just say, oh, well, I can know everything God knows.

00:48:11.100 That's hubris.

00:48:12.540 That's the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

00:48:14.800 And that's the point I'm making.

00:48:18.240 But it doesn't matter.

00:48:20.180 The point is to lie.

00:48:21.220 The point is to smear.

00:48:22.660 And unfortunately, James Lindsay keeps ruining the reputations of other people who associate with him.

00:48:27.860 Because he's a liar and people who are willing to involve themselves in the same smears and lies that he paddles are going to end up looking bad.

00:48:36.040 So ultimately, I hope that Dave Rubin reconsiders his support for James and for the type of lying that James involves himself with, especially types like this, which are so blatant.

00:48:48.460 I mean, we're talking about a guy who believes I summon angels who are also demons from the Middle East and attacked Arby's as being woke for having a tweet about a dad not coming back or something.

00:49:07.100 Like, this is obviously not a guy who's like doing really well or does a lot of like thoughtful reasoning.

00:49:13.100 But for some reason, guys like Dave Rubin keep lining up behind him.

00:49:18.260 So, again, I just hope he is more thoughtful about how he engages in that from now on.

00:49:24.440 Because he's only humiliating himself by following a guy who's an obvious liar who's going out of his way to lie about me and is going to make you look foolish by comparison.

00:49:35.480 All right.

00:49:35.900 Let's go to the questions of the people who are real quick.

00:49:38.660 We've got Christopher Zinn here.

00:49:41.020 Greenwald would scream his safe word before he leaked it himself.

00:49:45.160 Yeah, again, I understand people's point that like the point of this type of sexual behavior is to be humiliated.

00:49:51.640 Part of that humiliation is sharing it out and making it public for some people.

00:49:56.800 I understand the motivation that people are trying to impute to James or sorry to Glenn Greenwald there.

00:50:04.660 But ultimately, I really doubt that that's what happened.

00:50:08.040 Again, I think Glenn is, whenever his disordered personal life, professionally, he's pretty well ordered.

00:50:15.880 And I don't see him putting out something like this intentionally with the understanding that and knowing that it would hurt his ability to like build the bridges he's been trying to build.

00:50:25.520 You could just say that his desires have gotten so wild that he's lost control of that impulse.

00:50:30.880 But I'm somewhat doubtful.

00:50:34.740 George W.

00:50:35.560 Hey, Duke says, would you have him on again?

00:50:37.500 Was a great guess.

00:50:38.260 Also, I dare say most straight couples already live as if they they were gay, childless, fornicating, etc. 1.00

00:50:45.860 Yeah.

00:50:46.340 Again, there's plenty of sexual immorality to go around.

00:50:53.560 You know, homosexuality is not the only practice that is accepted and glamorized in our society that is inappropriate.

00:51:01.260 And so, yeah, that you're exactly right to point that out.

00:51:04.280 That said, I do think that there is an additional level of problem.

00:51:08.200 Again, as I pointed out, some people will phrase this as sinning in the right direction.

00:51:16.120 I don't know if I'm comfortable with that phrase.

00:51:18.580 I will say, though, that there is there is a difference in the in the level of disordering, which doesn't excuse what's going on with other types of sexual depravity.

00:51:27.680 But, you know, it does make this one somewhat worse.

00:51:31.100 As to whether I would have Glenn on again.

00:51:32.720 Yes, I would have Glenn on again.

00:51:34.040 Again, like I said, I would not pretend this behavior is OK.

00:51:38.200 I would not.

00:51:39.440 I'm not I'm not going to.

00:51:41.240 But if we're talking about another issue, one in which Glenn is doing good work, then I will have that discussion with him.

00:51:48.060 But I would not feel the need to defend his behavior or equivocate on his behalf.

00:51:55.460 And, you know, I probably wouldn't have him on just to grill him about it.

00:51:58.400 But, you know, if he was coming on to discuss, you know, some kind of journalism he would done.

00:52:03.720 Yeah, that would be fine.

00:52:05.840 Let's see here.

00:52:06.640 Joe McDermott says, can we please remove the intellectual from the actual dark web in the future?

00:52:12.220 Yeah, just the just the DW, I guess.

00:52:14.520 Yeah.

00:52:17.040 Christopher Zinn says, if surrogates can sell kids, can I buy a leg or a finger?

00:52:20.980 You can live without a leg or a finger, adult leg or finger.

00:52:24.200 Yeah.

00:52:24.380 Again, surrogacy is something that I think kind of snuck under the radar for a lot of conservatives initially because they didn't understand much about the process.

00:52:33.600 So they hadn't thought through the moral ramifications.

00:52:35.540 And this is always kind of how technology works.

00:52:37.780 Right.

00:52:38.000 It like gets its foot in the door.

00:52:39.400 And then like we backfill our moral justification of it because it's already part of our society.

00:52:46.580 But I think once people really started thinking about what surrogacy is and, you know, seeing some of the horror stories of like gay men forcing women to abort children because like the child wasn't exactly what they ordered.

00:53:01.300 You know, like the child is something to buy out of a magazine.

00:53:04.360 Like once stories of stuff like that started coming out, you know, gay men just abandoning the children that they had purchased from women, that kind of stuff.

00:53:13.580 I think people started, you know, really rethinking that.

00:53:16.500 And again, it's not just gay couples, to be fair.

00:53:18.820 There are straight couples who are, you know, having children through surrogacy.

00:53:22.400 And to be clear, they are not having children.

00:53:24.500 Like that's not what that is.

00:53:26.020 That is buying a mother's child. 0.98

00:53:28.140 Whether the mother agrees to this or not, I don't care.

00:53:31.080 Sorry.

00:53:31.600 Like you're not allowed to sell your kid.

00:53:33.980 Like that's the end of the story.

00:53:35.960 I don't care how we're trying to frame this.

00:53:38.400 This isn't capitalism.

00:53:39.640 Or if it is, then I want no part in it.

00:53:42.000 Right.

00:53:42.400 Like this is evil.

00:53:43.300 It's wrong.

00:53:44.040 And I think a lot of people have kind of come to that, but they came to it kind of after the camel already has his nose in the tent.

00:53:50.240 So it's been a little difficult for conservatives to extricate themselves from the acceptance they had initially had.

00:53:56.600 Let's see here.

00:53:58.800 Alex says, I was about 12 years old when a gay couple walked past me and one of them poked me on my side when I was out of sight from my parents.

00:54:07.100 Kids for straight couples only is a hill to die on. 0.97

00:54:11.140 Yeah, again, I think that it is a perfectly reasonable thing to say that children deserve to grow up in a household with a mother and father whenever that is possible.

00:54:21.500 And so that should be the norm and that should be the priority.

00:54:25.160 Again, people will make the argument about adoption.

00:54:29.460 I'm not going to go deep into that today, but I don't really buy that one ultimately.

00:54:33.380 And again, due to the lifestyle that a lot of homosexual couples are involved in, introducing child children into that environment is, I think, just ultimately a really bad idea. 1.00

00:54:45.640 And conservatives need to rethink any support they might hold for it.

00:54:48.840 Gears of War says, what are your thoughts on Trump removing all opposition to homosexual marriage from the party platform?

00:54:54.740 More damage done by him than Ruben Greenwald?

00:54:57.060 Well, yeah, again, you're absolutely right.

00:54:58.960 I like Trump on a lot of issues, but this is something that he has been horrible on.

00:55:04.020 It's very clear that, you know, ultimately Trump himself is also just a New York Democrat from 20 years ago.

00:55:11.160 Right.

00:55:11.520 And and even on the gay issue, he's more progressive than, say, Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton were when they ran for president the first time where they said that marriage is between a man and a woman.

00:55:20.820 And so while I like a lot of what Donald Trump has done and he has my support to the degree that he must for those things, I can't say anything against what you're pointing out here.

00:55:33.660 Trump has ultimately been bad on this issue and has done more damage to the conservative acceptance of this issue than any guy like Ruben or Greenwald.

00:55:42.360 That's definitely true.

00:55:43.420 Alex says, as long as they're not hurting anyone, argument merely just gives gives way to gives way for degeneracy.

00:55:53.560 The opposite view makes us reflect on our own virtues and vices.

00:55:57.580 That's right.

00:55:58.240 Again, I want to make it clear, pointing out that something that is wrong is wrong does not make you holy.

00:56:04.840 It doesn't make you blameless.

00:56:06.360 In fact, it should make you consider living a better life when you are reflecting on where these things can lead.

00:56:15.100 Right.

00:56:15.600 So no one, I don't think, pointing out what is was happening and pointing out that what Glenn was doing, this video was wrong.

00:56:24.780 I hope that they weren't trying to do that just to be like, well, because I'm blameless or whatever.

00:56:29.780 I think most people are probably being like, well, no, that behavior is not OK.

00:56:33.240 And it's fine for me to be disgusted with it.

00:56:36.000 And it's fine for me to point out that this is something that's certainly not OK if there are children in that home.

00:56:41.280 And that ultimately, this is something that Glenn needs to turn away from for his own good, for his own spiritual, physical well-being, for his own eternal soul.

00:56:51.980 Like, like on every level, you know, the reason to tell Glenn that this behavior is wrong is not to, like, elevate yourself.

00:56:59.300 It's to let Glenn know that, like, if you care about people, you tell them when they're involved in something that is going to harm them.

00:57:06.380 That's what love actually is.

00:57:09.280 Alex also says James Lindsay and his ilk are master sophists, hard to describe, but they are lost in hysteria.

00:57:16.800 Just very bizarre.

00:57:18.080 Sometimes leftists make more sense.

00:57:19.580 Yeah, I think a lot of people observing James's behavior have noticed that it has entered into quite the spiral.

00:57:26.740 Blood based here, just with a generous donation.

00:57:28.980 Thank you very much, sir.

00:57:30.040 Very much appreciate that.

00:57:31.140 Thank you.

00:57:32.840 Alex says, if we say Glenn's lifestyle is a problem, we must also critique contraception, porn, fornication, masturbation.

00:57:38.780 Does it just seem consistent?

00:57:40.680 And if not, again, yeah, there are many different, you know, types of sexual degeneracy and pointing out Glenn's does not make yours okay or acceptable.

00:57:51.080 But, again, I would say there is a order, there is still a different in the orders of magnitude there, right?

00:57:59.580 Again, all bad, all sin, all will send you to hell without repentance and grace from God, salvation from God.

00:58:05.460 However, there is a difference in the type of sin involved, and you can't completely pretend that's not the case either.

00:58:15.480 Alex says, would watch James Lindsay versus 20 Gen Z conservatives?

00:58:20.040 Yes, that would actually be quite funny.

00:58:21.780 I would actually very much enjoy watching that video.

00:58:24.800 All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.

00:58:28.240 I want to thank you for coming by.

00:58:31.260 Let's see here.

00:58:32.920 Oh, okay.

00:58:33.540 Nope.

00:58:33.820 I thought we had an extra super chat, but we did not.

00:58:35.880 Okay.

00:58:36.540 So I want to thank everybody for watching the show.

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The Auron MacIntyre Show - June 02, 2025

The Glenn Greenwald Leaks ｜ 6⧸2⧸25

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