The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Insane Rage Around Tucker Carlson and the Heritage Foundation ｜ Guest： Jason Whitlock ｜ 11⧸3⧸25

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00:00:15.360 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with

00:00:19.280 a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy. Before we get started around here,

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00:01:06.980 subscribe and get your $40 off and your issue four of Frontier Magazine today. All right, guys, as you

00:01:16.120 might have noticed, there seems to be a low-grade conservative civil war. Well, honestly, at this point,

00:01:21.580 I'd say it's just escalated into a high-grade civil war at this point. Someone who I've discussed

00:01:26.780 this topic with multiple times, he's been kind enough to have me on his show, and I think he has

00:01:30.260 great insights about it, is Jason Whitlock. He's, of course, a host on the blaze, just like me.

00:01:35.780 Jason, thank you so much for coming on, man.

00:01:37.860 Oren, thank you so much for thinking of me.

00:01:40.660 Of course. Like I said, you've had me on. You've been gracious enough to have me on to discuss

00:01:44.740 this topic before. Nick Fuentes, how should the American right be reaching out to young men? Is

00:01:51.380 there a way that we can have critical discussions that guys like Nick are talking about, but we can

00:01:57.620 have them in a responsible and Christian way? And I really appreciate that you've been on the

00:02:02.540 forefront on this, because I think you've been walking a very difficult but well-drawn line,

00:02:07.800 and I would like to continue a conversation with you in that vein, because I think you've had

00:02:11.960 good insights on this. Now, before we get started with any of the background or the drama or any of

00:02:16.960 this, I'd just like to acknowledge on the outset that this is all happening after the death of

00:02:22.200 Charlie Kirk. And I think this is one of the most disgusting displays I have ever seen in my life,

00:02:29.460 like personal, private, professional, across the board. Like, you and I have opinions. We're paid to

00:02:36.860 have opinions, right? And we're not shy about sharing those opinions. But in the aftermath of

00:02:41.120 Charlie Kirk's death, my message, much like Matt Walsh's message was, was we need to come together,

00:02:47.440 right? Anyone who wants to defeat the left, we need to push our disagreements to the side,

00:02:52.060 and we need to find a way to defeat these people. Because however I feel about someone who, you know,

00:02:57.240 might have more or less support for Israel than I do, ultimately, they're not trying to shoot me,

00:03:02.580 and the left is. And I thought after the death of Charlie Kirk, we would be able to pull together

00:03:07.380 and at least agree on that. But instead, it seems like we've killed all of that political momentum,

00:03:12.700 and all of that drive, and all of that collective effort. And we've decided to instead just pull the

00:03:17.900 car over on the side of the road, and beat each other until only one guy can drive the car. 0.99

00:03:22.780 And I don't know about you, but for a guy like Charlie Kirk, who had many great abilities,

00:03:28.320 but one of them is peacemaking. The fact that this is what's been made of his legacy,

00:03:32.540 I just think it's horrible. I agree with you to some degree in terms of

00:03:40.500 this is disappointing coming out of the Charlie Kirk deal, but I think it's inevitable. I think that

00:03:49.740 this conflict, this awakening, this iron sharpening iron has to happen. I don't see the conflict in

00:04:01.140 political terms. I see them more in biblical and religious terms. I see this more as a battle of

00:04:07.020 good versus evil. And so, Arne, I'm just someone that, you know, tries to go out of my way to reject

00:04:15.200 any sort of political identity. I want a Christian identity. And I think that's where this is all 0.99

00:04:23.580 headed. Some people are still in a very hyper-political mindset, and haven't recognized

00:04:29.460 where we're really at is, and I tweeted this out, I think this morning or last night, it's like,

00:04:36.240 hey, what is our identity? And where should our identity come from? And I think it should come

00:04:41.400 from your religious faith, your country of origin, and your language. And many people want to take

00:04:47.660 their identity from their politics. I think it's a mistake. And I think that that's all now starting

00:04:55.560 just people are starting to see the limits of these political identities. They change moment to

00:05:01.940 moment, who you support, what you don't support. Whereas, you know, if you're following Jesus Christ,

00:05:09.180 the one true God, you know, you're standing on a rock solid foundation of wisdom and truth

00:05:16.140 that has survived for thousands of years.

00:05:19.880 I'll certainly agree with you that, unfortunately, I think this conflict was inevitable, right? And I

00:05:26.980 think that that part is definitely true. And it is certainly bad that our identities have become so

00:05:33.400 ideological and political. I think that you're exactly right. That is a, the fact that we have

00:05:39.900 really been deracinated, we've been pulled out of the idea that we should have roots in our faith and in

00:05:45.260 our country and our family, that these things are somehow ephemeral, and you should really just

00:05:50.300 change them depending on your economic beliefs, or any of that stuff, or your geopolitical persuasion.

00:05:56.460 I think that that is, you know, deeply disturbing. I will say that I do think that ultimately,

00:06:03.300 and this is how I think it should properly be ordered, your identity will inform your politics,

00:06:08.660 right? And so the question is not, will you have, I guess, quote, unquote, identity politics,

00:06:13.860 but what identity will be most salient, right? Is it that you and I are brothers in Christ,

00:06:19.240 or is it something else, right? And I think that is important. But of course, I also think,

00:06:25.440 you know, your nationality matters, right? The fact that we are both Americans gives us far more to

00:06:30.580 share and far more in our collective identity than I would have with, say, a Christian in another 1.00

00:06:36.720 country. Not that they are not also my brother in Christ, but this is what makes us collectively

00:06:41.700 American in a way that we're not Armenian, even if that's a Christian country that we would both

00:06:47.140 agree has Christian brothers there, but is not America. So I think you're right that ultimately, 0.96

00:06:52.680 we were going to come to blows on this. Like I said, I just wish this was not the moment. You know,

00:06:58.480 this has obviously been simmering for a long time. It was happening before Charlie. You can see

00:07:03.100 that reflected in the very tensions and pressures Charlie was facing. But ultimately, sadly,

00:07:09.020 it seems this is when the line was finally drawn, and here we are.

00:07:14.080 Yeah. And Arne, we have to consider the possibility that it's a blessing, that this is what God intended.

00:07:22.720 And, you know, he wants people to have to recognize that, hey, Josh Hammer considers himself a conservative

00:07:31.540 Republican and he's on the same team. But are his tactics any different than the left? And does he

00:07:39.280 want to cancel people for having the wrong opinion? Does he want to make veiled threats at people,

00:07:46.540 Tucker Carlson, because he didn't ask the right questions in an interview with Nick Fuentes?

00:07:52.600 I've always contended that, you know, Republican or Democrat, you're capable of the exact same sin,

00:08:02.860 the exact same tactics, you know, and, and, you know, it's only, it's only my Christian faith

00:08:10.060 that puts restraints on me. Being a Republican or a Democrat puts no restraints on me.

00:08:16.140 Yeah, that's a very good point. A lot of people are saying that these tactics are leftist. I'm

00:08:21.680 guilty of that, too. But really, they're just immoral, right? And that's, that's what we should

00:08:26.060 be saying. I think that's a, that's a very good point, rather than than just trying to say that,

00:08:31.000 you know, those are the same thing. They're synonyms for each other. No, immoral is a is a

00:08:36.020 separate category that is nonpolitical. I think I think that's an excellent point. Well, let's get to the,

00:08:41.580 I guess, the crux of the issue, right? Like everybody kind of knows why we're here. But

00:08:45.780 let's, let's just kind of lay it out for people. So in case they are unfamiliar. Tucker Carlson had

00:08:51.860 Nick Fuentes on his show. Now, I'm going to say this at the outset, and I want to be clear,

00:08:56.540 I'm not saying it because I need to qualify for my statements who hate me. Trust me, lots of people

00:09:02.340 hate me right now. And I'm not saying anything about Nick Fuentes that I to placate them. I'm just

00:09:08.920 saying it because it's true. Nick Fuentes is a guy who has lied maliciously about me. And he has

00:09:13.340 wished he has promoted people who have wished harm on my family through his events. So this is a guy

00:09:19.640 I have no respect for. Anybody who's treated you that way, you just would see them as someone not

00:09:24.840 worthy of respect. I think that's a reasonable, even as Christians, if you came to me forgiveness,

00:09:29.560 okay, I can forgive. But in a general rule, if that's the way you're treating me and my family,

00:09:33.940 then I'm not going to extend an invitation to you personally. But Tucker decided to have Nick

00:09:41.780 on his show. Now, I think that Tucker pushed back on Nick a fair amount and people pretending

00:09:46.360 he didn't are looking for a reason to ignore that fact. I do think he could have pushed further.

00:09:52.580 Frankly, I would have liked to see him push on the fact that Nick had attacked Erica Kirk,

00:09:58.860 a grieving widow. I would have liked to see him push back on the fact that there are many

00:10:03.980 allegations around Nick's entourage about possible abuse, including sexual grooming.

00:10:10.360 Again, those could be false charges, but they would have been valid questions to ask him there.

00:10:15.640 And the funny thing is that the people who are so angry at Tucker, they never point any of that

00:10:19.140 stuff out. It's all about Israel. And that's where you can really tell, unfortunately, what the heart 0.84

00:10:23.600 of the problem is. They were already attacking Tucker on Israel before the Fuentes interview.

00:10:29.760 They were saying that him delivering a gospel message at Charlie Kirk's funeral service was

00:10:34.740 anti-Semitism. So when you already have a frame like that, it's hard for me to take seriously that

00:10:40.860 this Nick Fuentes issue really was a Rubicon for you. It seems like you were building up to this

00:10:46.960 position before the interview and the interview just gave you the ammunition you wanted. Now,

00:10:50.980 maybe we could say Tucker shouldn't have given them the ammunition, but I do think it's important

00:10:55.620 to understand that frame before we then discuss the larger problem or non-problem of him talking to

00:11:02.220 Nick Fuentes at all. Yeah, this is, I am like you. If I would have interviewed Nick Fuentes differently

00:11:13.260 than Tucker. And that's not a hyper-criticism of Tucker, but there are things that were clearly

00:11:20.420 left on the table that I'm interested in, would have questioned him about. But Tucker did provide

00:11:27.320 some pushback and tried to show the audience like, no, this guy's an anti-Semite. I'm criticizing him

00:11:37.600 very politely in a Christian fashion for being an anti-Semite, for singling out the Jewish people 0.68

00:11:46.060 rather than criticizing Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu. Nick leans into some hyperbolic things

00:11:53.660 about Jews. That's immoral, that for those of us that claim Christ as our Lord and Savior, 1.00

00:11:59.600 we shouldn't do that. And Tucker pointed those things out. What many people wanted though,

00:12:06.440 was for Tucker to name call Nick Fuentes, conduct, not that Candace Owens did a horrible interview, 1.00

00:12:15.280 but she did a very combative interview with Nick Fuentes. And I didn't think it was a good look for

00:12:21.800 either one. I felt like Tucker went about it more cleverly, but I, and again, everybody knows I'm a

00:12:30.100 huge Tucker Carlson supporter and, you know, I consider the guy a friend and I'm totally on team

00:12:36.220 Tucker. But I do think Tucker also used Nick Fuentes to demonstrate to the audience that like,

00:12:45.860 hey, people are calling me anti-Semitic. I'm not, I'm clear. I'm, I'm using the Nick Fuentes interview

00:12:53.680 to say, this is what anti-Semitism sounds like. Here's what my positions are. And, and I thought

00:13:00.400 Tucker was clever about doing that. But again, there are people that just wanted Tucker to bring

00:13:06.980 out a gun and shoot Nick Fuentes and be done with it. And, and, you know, they're disappointed and

00:13:14.560 they're using it to, you know, to take their real shots at Tucker for interviewing Daryl Cooper for,

00:13:23.460 again, not for allowing Daryl Cooper to say things about Winston Churchill that are supposed to be

00:13:29.560 illegal to say. Everybody's got an agenda. The, the truth takes a backseat to people's agenda. They

00:13:38.220 just, they want to destroy Tucker Carlson and illegalize certain conversations. And again,

00:13:44.560 when you're standing on the firm foundation of Jesus Christ, you fear nothing. There's nothing to

00:13:52.340 fear about Nick Fuentes. We allow Nick Fuentes to build an audience because no one wanted to deal

00:14:00.640 with him and deal with the issues that he's bringing out. Is America's relationship with Israel,

00:14:08.360 is it strategic? Is it healthy? Is it proper? These are questions young people want asked and

00:14:16.320 answered. We've been afraid to do it. Nick Fuentes has filled the void and built an audience and a

00:14:24.340 following. It's, it's our fault as Christians, as people with the greatest source of truth,

00:14:30.740 we should have dealt with Nick Fuentes a long time ago and, and called him into repentance.

00:14:39.460 And if he's unwilling to repent, then yes, then we back completely away from him and just,

00:14:45.680 you know, God's going to deal with him and we'll let, you know, the truth fall where it may.

00:14:50.700 Yeah. Again, you and I have talked about this before, so I don't want to belabor the point,

00:14:54.360 but you're exactly right. That ultimately the reason Fuentes has a fan base is because the

00:15:00.200 conservative movement was unwilling to address many issues. You know, the, not just the Israel issue,

00:15:04.760 but the fact that young men are facing the problems that they're facing. Uh, the fact that so much of

00:15:10.300 the world has been corrupted by an ideology that the conservative movement seems to more or less

00:15:14.960 kind of onboard itself. Um, you know, the, the, the fact that anti-white hatred has been normalized in

00:15:20.840 many of these areas. And, and, you know, that's a very interesting contrast. You know, there are many,

00:15:27.100 many people on the left who are, and frankly, some people on the right who are virulently anti-white

00:15:33.620 and nobody on the right has canceled anybody for interviewing them. Nobody has canceled anyone on

00:15:39.540 the right for debating them. Many of those people will agree on certain things, maybe transgenderism,

00:15:44.000 something, and they'll even have those people on and have a favorable discussion with them,

00:15:48.100 right? That hatred of white people has not made them untouchable. It has not made them someone

00:15:53.360 you cannot have discussions with. Nick Fuentes' attitudes toward Jewish people apparently do.

00:15:59.760 I think as Christians, we should not harbor ethnic hatred of any people that is against our

00:16:05.820 Christianity. It black, white, Jewish, whatever, right? Like this should be a consistent standard 0.94

00:16:11.620 that we have an equal weight and measure, but it's very clear from the reaction of the conservative

00:16:16.360 movement that there's one opinion you're not allowed to have. Now it's not just Jewish. There 0.87

00:16:21.960 are other hatreds racially that the conservative movement would push back against more, but that

00:16:26.840 one in particular will make you completely, completely persona non grata on the right, but

00:16:33.280 they'll reach out to pretty much everyone on the left who has an anti-white position and say,

00:16:37.340 let's have a discussion. Let's, let's talk about things. Let's move these things together.

00:16:40.960 And, and that's the problem I have. It's not, oh, we should, you know, I'm, oh yeah,

00:16:45.140 we should be mean to Jewish people. Of course you shouldn't. Of course you shouldn't harbor hatred

00:16:48.400 in your heart, but that has to be equal. And when you do, when you apply that standard and you censor

00:16:54.060 on only one side of that standard, everyone's going to notice. And guess what? You're just going to make

00:16:58.860 someone like Nick Fuentes stronger. You're just proving his point to his followers. So again,

00:17:04.160 you could have hit Nick on 13 different things that had nothing to do with Israel, but that's not what

00:17:09.160 you wanted to hit him on because there's really just one sacred identity that we seem to be unable

00:17:13.940 to treat just like hatred for anyone else. And that's ultimately my issue. We should just

00:17:18.920 have equal weights and measures here. No question about it. I would not to the same degree,

00:17:25.320 but I would say the American black identity gets a special level of protection that's unwarranted

00:17:33.220 and unfair and unhealthy. And, you know, I, it's not to the same degree, but it's dang close.

00:17:41.380 Well, I'm going to let you say that.

00:17:44.440 It's just factually true. And so I, you know, in combination, black leftists, 0.98

00:17:52.760 a part of the Jewish community that is very tribal, they have set a standard amongst themselves that if 0.76

00:18:03.140 anyone is critical of us, uh, they've gone too far and their religious faith is in jeopardy,

00:18:10.900 but, but the thing for me being a friend of Tucker Carlson, being someone that thinks,

00:18:16.900 you know, Tucker has been a force for good when, when Josh hammer writes in the daily mail,

00:18:23.500 and I know that's not an American newspaper, but it is a newspaper when he calls Tucker,

00:18:28.760 the first sentence out of his mouth is he's the most dangerous man in America.

00:18:33.720 Oh my Tucker Carlson. That's just mind blowing. And then when you ended by saying he needs to be

00:18:41.660 neutralized, I just can't believe people aren't rebuking Josh. I'm like, what are we doing here,

00:18:48.520 man? The most dangerous man in the world. And he needs to be neutralized or we have to neutralize him.

00:18:54.040 And you can, you go into the analogy of a fox in a hen house and that now everyone wants to play

00:19:00.900 the game. Well, he didn't mean eliminating that way. He, I mean, cut it out. Uh, and so, yes, there,

00:19:07.900 there are things you can say about white people, particularly American white people, but it's just 0.99

00:19:14.020 white people in general, uh, that is, is reprehensible. It's unfair. And the longer we tolerate it, 1.00

00:19:22.160 the more, it won't just be Nick Fuentes. It's all the people that will be following in behind Nick

00:19:28.620 Fuentes, young people and just smart older people aren't just going to tolerate, man, you can just

00:19:36.880 say whatever you want about a white person and, and, and we're all good here. White people shouldn't 0.86

00:19:43.820 tolerate it. Christians shouldn't tolerate it. Fair-minded people shouldn't tolerate it. American 1.00

00:19:49.740 citizens shouldn't tolerate it. It's wrong. And it, it creates the Nick Fuentes of the world. 0.54

00:19:57.900 Well, and yo, the, the generational aspect is so powerful here. You know, if you look at what is

00:20:06.040 happening, um, you know, a lot of support for Israel in the United States, especially in the

00:20:11.480 conservative movement has been tied to the idea of dispensationalism. The idea that ultimately there

00:20:17.820 is a biblical, godly requirement to support the nation state of Israel, its political goals,

00:20:25.060 its political leaders, and that any deviation from that belief is not just immoral or not being

00:20:31.980 a conservative. It's, it's a direct violation of your Christian faith. Now, a lot of people,

00:20:37.760 my age and younger have looked at dispensationalism and said, look, this is a relatively novel

00:20:43.360 understanding of the Bible. Uh, it's very clear that the church did not believe this until like 150

00:20:50.160 years ago at best. And maybe it's okay to return to a more traditional understanding that also makes

00:20:57.820 far more sense for my nation and putting my nation forward as a priority. And because they have lost that

00:21:05.320 support generationally, kind of everything else is unwinding from that. There's very few people

00:21:11.560 under 40 in the conservative movement who aren't like directly paid to have these positions that

00:21:17.240 believe that ultimately we should be that loyal to Israel. And again, I'm not trying to slander,

00:21:22.960 like I should, I should phrase that because I'm not trying to make the, like everybody who agrees

00:21:27.140 with Israel is paid off. Like, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm saying is that the people

00:21:31.940 who were in the system and had professional positions for a long time and made a lot of money and had a lot

00:21:37.660 of connections in the establishment built a lot of that in that environment where that was the way

00:21:42.780 we understood our relationship with Israel. And it's just very clear that the up and coming

00:21:47.120 generations do not have that outlook. And so if you want to make a case for supporting Israel,

00:21:52.920 you really need to make it in an American first fashion, right? Like this is the benefit that we 0.98

00:21:58.160 receive. This is why it makes sense for our country. And if you can't make the argument that way,

00:22:02.540 and I think it's increasingly hard to make the argument that way, then you're, you're going to

00:22:06.800 lose. And honestly, you deserve to lose because that's what should be the standard for whether

00:22:12.440 or not we approach this. And I think the big panic we're seeing, Jason, is that these people

00:22:18.020 who have been in charge of the conservative movement for so long, we're relying on institutional

00:22:22.840 power. They wielded the fundraising, they wielded things like the Heritage Foundation.

00:22:28.320 And so now when TPOSA and the Heritage Foundation and these large, powerful, donor-driven organizations

00:22:37.440 are siding with Tucker Carlson and not with kind of neocons, all of a sudden, there's a panic mode

00:22:45.740 because that's all they had left. They knew they had lost the young generation, but now they've lost

00:22:50.200 the institutions too. And this is why we're seeing like all hands at deck on here because I think they

00:22:54.680 know if they lose this battle, then they lose it all. If they lose the Heritage Foundation,

00:23:00.200 then man, that's kind of the end of it, right?

00:23:03.660 Certainly. And look, I'm 58. And, and obviously I've been transparent that my serious journey as a

00:23:15.300 Christian is about 10 years old. And so, and that, that's not a lot of time, but I'm 58. And,

00:23:23.460 you know, Genesis 12 and 3, the way it's been interpreted makes no sense to me. And, and so

00:23:30.620 I've rejected dispensationalism and I, you know, I, at 58 years old, I'm not a young person. I'm just

00:23:38.520 like, Hey man, they're talking about the church. And, and the other thing that drives me crazy,

00:23:44.180 Aaron, is that like Catholics and Protestants can disagree on how they interpret the Bible

00:23:50.480 and still find an uncomfortable peace with each other that, you know, well, you got to believe

00:23:57.860 what I believe, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, but on, if, if, if we disagree with the way Genesis 12 and

00:24:04.860 3 has been interpreted through the Schofield Bible and, and other places, well, now we've lost

00:24:11.180 our salvation. Right. And, and I've had ministers that I really respect who have, who have said for

00:24:21.700 several years have told me like, Hey man, Genesis 12 and 3, that's not a salvation issue. That's why

00:24:28.100 I don't focus on it. How, how I feel about Genesis 12 and 3 is not going to determine my salvation.

00:24:34.500 And I agree with them on that, that, that, cause again, there's this thing we've done

00:24:40.920 in Christianity where it's like, Hey man, if you don't profess your love for black Americans,

00:24:49.220 you can't see heaven. I'm like, am I really that important? I don't, I didn't see that anywhere in

00:24:57.960 the Bible. I, I, Jason Whitlock and black people are not the truth, the way, and the life. It's 1.00

00:25:04.200 Jesus Christ. And so this standard that black people have made like, well, man, if, if you don't 0.86

00:25:12.100 love me, you're no good with God. And people of the Jewish faith, many of them have set up that 1.00

00:25:20.000 standard. Like you don't see, if you don't agree with us on Genesis 12 and 3, there's no way you can

00:25:26.120 be in good standing with Jesus Christ. I just don't see it in the Bible. Uh, and so, you know,

00:25:33.880 both the groups, one that I may, I don't like the word pride, pride or proud, but I'm part of the

00:25:42.460 black so-called community. I love being black. This is the way Jesus, God made me. I love it,

00:25:48.860 but I completely disagree with our victimhood tactic and setting ourselves up as some sort of

00:25:55.380 standard that if you don't love us, uh, you're, you know, you're outside the faith. And I'm not

00:26:02.100 trying to say you should hate black people, but I just don't work when someone tells me, 0.96

00:26:07.880 Hey, I don't like you, Jason. I don't care. And I really don't. I would, I'm more interested. How do 0.99

00:26:15.040 you feel about Jesus Christ? Because if you feel the right way about Jesus Christ, these problems you

00:26:22.520 have with me, once you meet me, get to know me, they will all disappear. Yeah. They will all

00:26:29.460 disappear. And, and, and that, that is the reality. And that's the conversation that the mainstream

00:26:35.940 media has never allowed us to have as it relates to racism or whatever is my dad was black and he was 0.93

00:26:44.080 racist. He did not like white people, but when he met a white person, very respectful towards them.

00:26:52.600 And if they treated him in a respectful way, he got along with them. Great. There was no problem.

00:26:59.020 And trust me, there are white people that consider themselves racist, but when they meet a black person

00:27:06.980 that treats them with respect and in a way, and they find out we got shared values, they got no problem.

00:27:13.580 And that's the true reality. And so that's what, again, when people say, Oh, that white guy, he's racist.

00:27:19.920 You should blah, blah. I go, well, my dad was racist and I loved him and he was great. And I never saw him

00:27:25.340 mistreat anybody that treated him well. So, you know, I'm going to let this older white dude or younger 0.93

00:27:31.980 white dude think whatever he wants, I'm going to do me. And if he's got a Christian bone in his body, 0.76

00:27:39.100 he's going to watch me do me and be like, Oh, I'm good with him. That's the beauty of Christianity.

00:27:48.120 Agreed. And, and, and, you know, there's, there's a joke post on Twitter that that brings to mind

00:27:52.780 something like, you know, the racist community doesn't really care what color you are, as long as

00:27:56.760 you're sufficiently racist. Yeah. That's the joke, but, but, but seriously, but, but in all seriousness, 0.93

00:28:01.780 you're right. That ultimately very few people, uh, once you actually get it, especially again,

00:28:07.160 if they have a true Christian belief, you get them in the room, they're just going to find 0.99

00:28:10.720 themselves completely incompatible, uh, with someone. Now, ultimately they might have different

00:28:14.820 cultures. Again, I do believe that nations are apart for a reason. You have different cultures, 0.80

00:28:18.860 you have different traditions, the God, God made us into nations because we were meant to live in this way.

00:28:23.620 And a, a, a, a beautiful Japanese Christianity or a beautiful Armenian Christianity or a beautiful, 0.97

00:28:29.080 you know, Finnish Christianity is going to look different than an American Christianity, 0.98

00:28:32.980 but it's still going to be Christianity. And we can find our brotherhood in, in our agreements on

00:28:37.780 Christ. And you're of course, right. You know, Catholics and Protestants look, yeah, the 30 years 0.52

00:28:41.740 war was a thing, but today we're, it's more or less a detente, right? Like there's, we're not going to go

00:28:46.140 to war over this stuff, but when it comes to Israel that you will go to war with. And frankly, that kind of

00:28:51.960 says everything, right? Like where does your real value lie? Where's your real identity lie? It lies

00:28:56.880 over the things you will go to war on. And sadly, if you're willing to go over to war over Israel,

00:29:03.320 then I got to say that's clearly where your, your value line is drawn. Now I've seen

00:29:10.020 some really horrific behavior, of course, on the anti-Israel side. I've said, you know,

00:29:17.140 when people were talking about, Oh, well, Charlie Kirk was assassinated by Israel and all that. I

00:29:21.360 immediately said, this is garbage. Don't talk like this. This is stupid. If you got it, if you've got 1.00

00:29:26.580 some kind of real criticism of Israel, great. We'll have that discussion later. This is not how you

00:29:31.960 should act after Charlie Kirk's death. But now I'm looking at the left and their attempt to smear

00:29:38.980 everyone as a racist and to smear Charlie Kirk as a racist and a fascist and say, that means we should 1.00

00:29:45.200 be able to kill him. Right? Like that, that's what was on the bullet shot at Charlie Kirk. Hey, 1.00

00:29:50.440 fascist catch. Now, Jason, we all agreed a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure that's what I saw,

00:29:57.180 at least on Twitter, that that charge towards Charlie Kirk was instrumental in getting him killed. 0.98

00:30:02.820 The anti-fascists, as they like to call themselves, the communists that want to murder you,

00:30:08.060 they will use that as an excuse to treat you however you want. It's a moral blank check

00:30:11.900 to say whatever you want to do and do whatever you do to people you hate. And now I'm watching

00:30:18.020 tons of guys who all agreed with that two weeks ago, call every single person. They disagree with

00:30:24.760 the fascists. I even saw like John had poured words. That's a whole nother problem. Right. But he,

00:30:30.120 he was sitting there calling Sean Davis, some leader of the Hitler youth who was reading the elders of

00:30:37.040 Zion because he disagreed with him. Like that is just, I'm sorry. These are, these are open calls

00:30:42.880 to murder. When Randy Fine says Tucker Carlson is, is a, is a Nazi and a Hitler youth leader. He is

00:30:48.960 calling for the death of Tucker Carlson. And I will simply not pretend anything else. This is completely

00:30:53.840 demonstrable behavior. It is a call, open call for violence. There is zero space for it on the right.

00:30:59.020 There wasn't any space for it three weeks ago, but all of a sudden Israel reenters the discussion

00:31:03.380 and it turns out everyone who disagrees with me, even on the right is a Nazi. And by the way,

00:31:08.180 I can say and do whatever I want to them because it's a moral blank check. We have the same ideology

00:31:12.380 as the left at the end of the day. It's, and it's important. The conversation we're having right now,

00:31:19.100 the things we're doing over social media in terms of standing with Tucker Carlson and calling it out

00:31:28.620 in real time and calling out the hypocrisy. It's all very important to obviously everybody should

00:31:37.520 like Charlie Kirk was assassinated in front of everybody. He wasn't a president. He wasn't a

00:31:45.900 senator. He wasn't a politician. And if, if who, whatever forces, and I truly do not know what

00:31:53.600 forces and I'm open to any explanation that, that killed Charlie Kirk, those same forces are certainly

00:32:00.460 capable of doing the same thing to Tucker Carlson. They're capable of doing it to you or I. And so

00:32:07.000 that's why it's important for people to be like, Hey man, we got to draw a line in the sand here. I, I,

00:32:14.520 I don't want to read newspaper articles saying Tucker's the most dangerous man. If he's the most

00:32:20.400 dangerous man in America, someone should kill him. And that's basically what you're justifying. 0.99

00:32:26.260 And then these other people that you've referenced that I've seen it all, because I've been very, uh,

00:32:33.500 uh, in tune with this and concerned about this and, and on a positive note, cause we can sit here and

00:32:40.000 just belittle and belabor the problems, but this is why what Kevin Roberts and the heritage foundation

00:32:47.800 did was so courageous and so important. And we need to celebrate, uh, Kevin Roberts. Uh, and I would

00:32:56.320 also celebrate TP USA, uh, in the same, in not as much, but in the same way that they haven't backed

00:33:04.420 away from Tucker Carlson. And then there's a lot of pressure for them to do that. And maybe at some

00:33:09.600 point they'll bend, but I think as long as Kevin Roberts and others start hopping on board,

00:33:15.700 they're less likely to, uh, but, but, you know, I, I, I got, this is authentic. When I saw Kevin

00:33:25.660 Roberts video, I cried. I was like, holy cow, men are standing up and they're taking bold stances.

00:33:34.680 And it's, I don't know how long it's been 10, 15 years since men have really stood up and taken a

00:33:42.580 bold stance. And, and I got a message from Tucker that he was equally as moved by what Kevin Roberts

00:33:52.040 and heritage did. I, I, and that's where my hope comes from. It, and, and I actually do have hope

00:34:00.240 and optimism when I see Kevin Roberts and the heritage foundation, when I see what you're doing,

00:34:05.920 when I see what I'm doing and others that are rallying around Tucker Carlson, it gives me hope.

00:34:12.580 No, I agree. And you're absolutely right. We shouldn't just be focusing on the denouncements

00:34:17.160 or the decrying. We should be focusing on the fact that men of that stature, stature,

00:34:23.240 operating institutions of that importance are willing to, to take a stand. And I'll say, you know,

00:34:29.780 TPUSA, the easiest thing in the world for them would have been to just cave to all of this,

00:34:34.180 right? Like Charlie clearly loved Israel. No, no matter how much he had had other doubts about,

00:34:38.920 you know, kind of the, the larger program, it would have been very easy to just be like, well,

00:34:43.440 Tucker is the worst and we can't, you know, and, and just bury him under this stuff. And,

00:34:47.620 and they haven't, maybe, maybe they're not, they have not as been as forceful as Kevin has been,

00:34:51.160 but they have been consistent in the face of pressure. Um, and I think that that is, uh,

00:34:56.200 rather admirable, especially again, for an organization that was very clearly, very heavily

00:35:01.860 donor reliant on many people who disagree with Tucker Carlson. Uh, and so it's been impressive

00:35:07.300 to see them have a moral clarity and loyalty around that. Cause I'll say this, um, you know,

00:35:12.780 I have disagreements with many people, uh, on this issue, right? They're, they're at varying levels

00:35:19.060 of disagreements. Some of them are, are, you know, minute, you know, some of them are vast. Um,

00:35:24.280 but those people who have really been my friends, we're fine on this issue, you know, and people who

00:35:30.940 are professional and have big audiences, we're fine. Like we're still talking, we're still friendly.

00:35:36.640 This is, this is not a problem because loyalty is more important than ideology. Like loyalty is just

00:35:42.760 more important. That tells me more about you that you believe in coming alongside a Christian brother

00:35:48.460 and, and lifting them up. Even if you disagree with them, even if you say, ultimately, I'm going to

00:35:52.800 sit you down and we're going to talk about where we disagree that, that disagreement and that

00:35:58.060 conversation is internal, right? Because that's where we operate. We bring our instruction. We bring

00:36:04.840 our correction first to the person who's wronged us or the person we think is wrong, not directly to

00:36:10.580 the public to try to, you know, crucify them for attention in the public. Now we're, we're coming up

00:36:16.520 on some time here and I don't want to keep you too long, but I do want to ask you this before we go.

00:36:21.240 A lot of people have pointed out, Sean Davis of the Federals, one of them,

00:36:26.800 that this is largely a proxy war on J.D. Vance, that the reason they're going, you know, there,

00:36:34.940 there's a lot of personal, you know, hurt feelings flying around, but ultimately J.D. Vance represents

00:36:40.760 the new right, a non-interventionist right, a, someone who opposes neoconservatism in,

00:36:47.280 in large degrees. And he, he's kind of the true successor of Trump and the MAGA movement.

00:36:52.760 And because of that, the people who never wanted Trump, and it's hard not to notice a lot of these

00:36:57.480 people were never Trumpers or, or, or just came back on board. And they, you know, these people

00:37:03.300 are suddenly the ones going after Tucker Carlson. They can't go after Trump anymore. They learned

00:37:07.320 that won't work. And they've learned that even going after J.D. Vance is dicey, but what they can do is

00:37:12.720 go after Tucker. And if they can kill Tucker and they can kill the new right and the online right, 0.99

00:37:18.620 then J.D. Vance won't have like the momentum inside the movement. I want to get your reaction

00:37:24.380 and possible impressions to that analysis. That's fascinating. And, you know, I may,

00:37:31.240 I'll reach out to Sean who lives here in Nashville. We may have to try to get him on the show because

00:37:36.260 doesn't Tucker's son work for J.D. Vance? He does. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah. Ironically,

00:37:43.160 his name is Buckley, but yeah, that is ironic. But, but yeah, that's, that's fascinating. That's

00:37:51.040 something I hadn't considered. Uh, Hmm. I, you, you caught me off guard with that. I can see it. I'm,

00:37:59.240 I'm going to try to get Sean Davis on the show to talk about it, have him unpack it some more. Um,

00:38:04.920 that, that, that, now the never Trump crowd is still the never Trump crowd. They've gritted their

00:38:11.860 teeth for the last 12 years and dealt with Trump because they've had no choice, but have they ever

00:38:18.780 been truly comfortable with Donald Trump and, and just the lack of control that they've had over

00:38:26.100 Trump? And it's not that they've had no control, but they haven't had nearly as much control as

00:38:31.460 they're used to having with the people that are installed in the presidency.

00:38:34.920 It's they want to put an end to that. Trump has been too much of a maverick, too little,

00:38:40.460 too unpredictable. And they don't, yeah, I could see them like J.D. Vance cut from the same cloth

00:38:47.660 and more of this Trump phenomenon would, would be a bad thing for the never Trump crowd.

00:38:53.760 All right. Now, finally, I know this is off topic, uh, but I have to ask cause you're an expert. Um,

00:39:00.060 so, uh, my Buccaneers, uh, on an incredible run, uh, as a, as a, as a, as a, someone who's born in

00:39:06.500 Tampa, I'm a rare Florida native, uh, you know, been my team for a long time, long suffering,

00:39:11.400 you know, very few of our opportunities to truly, uh, suffering. You just won a Superbowl three

00:39:16.160 years ago. Yeah. But before that, how long ago, Jason, how long, right? I was in high school,

00:39:20.540 uh, but you know, to the last one. So, so yeah, I hear we're, we're not in as dire straits.

00:39:24.740 It's not like the Cubs before they won the world series, but, but you know, we're, we're,

00:39:28.400 we're not exactly you. We're not the Patriots. We're not the chiefs. We're not used to lining

00:39:32.000 these babies up on a regular basis, but what do you think about the run, uh, the Tampa Bay

00:39:37.260 is on this year, especially as it's missing some critical, uh, uh, some critical players,

00:39:42.580 some critical veterans on the team. I'm going to keep my feedback in line with what we've been

00:39:48.200 talking about. And this is cause this is what I do on my show. We talk sports, but we talk it

00:39:52.520 from a cultural and biblical perspective. The Buccaneers have two unique forces at work

00:40:01.700 and, uh, encouraging and lifting this team up. Baker Mayfield has a clear chip on his shoulder

00:40:08.220 and wants to prove and justify why he was the number one overall pick despite washing out

00:40:14.200 in Cleveland. Baker Mayfield has discovered a faith in Jesus Christ that has strengthened him

00:40:21.660 and inspired him. And then the head coach, Todd Bowles is a true believer and he won't play the

00:40:30.800 racial political game. He, I don't know if you remember this arm, when they asked him about

00:40:35.840 being a black coach and coaching against Mike Tomlin, uh, Todd Bowles was like, what are you

00:40:41.880 talking about, man? We ain't thinking about any of that. You know, we're just two coaches and we're not,

00:40:46.580 he's not one of these racially idolatrous sports figures, Todd Bowles. And so I think he set a

00:40:54.760 tremendous tone with the team. Many of these teams, uh, suffer from a victim mentality because it's

00:41:02.200 tolerated by these coaches and in honor of wokeness. And you can't do that, uh, with Todd Bowles as your

00:41:09.980 head coach and with someone with such a dynamic personality with a chip on a shoulder like Baker

00:41:15.660 Mayfield. And so I think that's why they've been able to stay afloat despite all the injuries and

00:41:22.540 stay really relevant. And they are Baker Mayfield, uh, is one of the top 10 candidates for MVP. And at

00:41:30.440 one point he was probably the top candidate and, and the, you know, the season that Tampa's having,

00:41:36.840 uh, doesn't really surprise me given the values that are, have been instilled within that culture

00:41:43.140 through Baker Mayfield and Todd Bowles. And they're one of the teams I'm rooting for and would like to

00:41:47.920 see in the Superbowl, just because I think of the message that they will send. I will say this though,

00:41:53.420 aren't, if they do make it to the Superbowl, I won't be watching. I'm not watching the Superbowl

00:41:58.440 and I'm damn sure not participating in the halftime show with this bad bunny deal. So I'm gonna watch

00:42:03.540 everything up to the Superbowl and then I'm out. Well, TPSA has that, uh, alternative halftime

00:42:09.880 show and rumors are that Creed might be playing there. So as someone who has been, uh, you know,

00:42:16.560 pushing for the Creed, uh, halftime show for a very long time, uh, let's hope that that is a,

00:42:21.540 a suitable alternative, uh, to the horrible, uh, display the NFL is, is planning at that time. Uh,

00:42:28.680 but, but I'm glad I got to get the football question. And if I had, my father would have

00:42:31.740 never, uh, would have never forgiven me. He's like, if you're gonna have Jason on the show,

00:42:35.180 you gotta ask him about football. It's not okay to ignore it. So I wanted to say that I really

00:42:39.600 appreciate you coming on, man. I know you've got a couple different YouTube channels now. So can

00:42:43.640 you tell people where to find, uh, your show?

00:42:45.680 Uh, main shows every morning at 10 AM central time. Uh, it's just youtube.com slash Jason Whitlock.

00:42:53.940 Uh, then we have a harmony channel where we talk about things from a more explicit biblical point

00:43:00.780 of view. Uh, I believe that's a Jason Whitlock, uh, harmony. Uh, and then we have something I'd like

00:43:08.380 to do with country music, uh, called BYOG myself and Jeffrey Steele, uh, talk country music on that

00:43:17.180 channel and just talk about the music industry on that channel. So yeah, check me out. You can get

00:43:21.960 me in three different locations. Would love for you to come join us. Fantastic guys. We'll make sure

00:43:27.300 that you are of course watching Jason's show. And if it's your first time on this channel, you need to

00:43:31.800 click subscribe, the bell notifications, all that stuff on YouTube. So you know, when we're going live

00:43:35.800 and if you want to get these pod podcasts as broadcasts or the other way around, if you would

00:43:39.740 like to get this as a podcast, you need to subscribe to the Orr McIntyre show on your favorite podcast

00:43:43.920 network. Thank you everybody for watching. And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - November 03, 2025

The Insane Rage Around Tucker Carlson and the Heritage Foundation ｜ Guest： Jason Whitlock ｜ 11⧸3⧸25

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