The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance ｜ Guest： Wade Stotts ｜ 7⧸26⧸24

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00:00:30.000 We'll be right back.

00:01:00.000 We'll be right back.

00:01:30.000 We have delayed the show multiple times, but finally, finally, things have calmed down for five minutes.

00:01:38.960 Nobody got shot.

00:01:40.320 No presidents have resigned.

00:01:42.580 And so finally, able to talk about Westerns.

00:01:46.800 I wanted to go ahead and mix in some of my favorite movies and shows when I get to talk with some of my guests here.

00:01:54.260 And Westerns are one of my favorite genres.

00:01:57.000 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is probably my favorite Western.

00:02:01.180 So coming on to talk about that today with me is Wade Stotts of The Wade Show.

00:02:05.420 Thanks for joining me, man.

00:02:06.620 It's a pleasure to be here.

00:02:08.240 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:08.660 Glad to, you know, again, no major tumultuous political upheavals.

00:02:13.660 Yeah.

00:02:14.380 We've already talked about those.

00:02:15.940 Yeah.

00:02:16.300 We've done our shows.

00:02:17.400 Yeah.

00:02:18.500 Now that everyone knows the Constitution is dead, you can talk about the Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, which will be quite relevant, actually, to the topic of this movie.

00:02:28.100 But I had the pleasure of meeting Wade over at the NatCon 4 in Washington, D.C., that conference.

00:02:35.960 So that was great.

00:02:36.800 If you're not checking out his work, of course, you should absolutely be doing so.

00:02:41.660 Wade, we're going to get into the movie specifically.

00:02:45.420 But for me, Westerns are part of my family history.

00:02:49.120 My maternal grandfather was a huge Western fan, one of those guys who just fell asleep, you know, in the easy chair every afternoon watching Westerns, just, you know, shelves of Louis L'Amour books.

00:03:01.520 My father watches tons of Westerns, is also a Western aficionado when it comes to history.

00:03:07.900 He can recite every fact you've ever forgotten about the Wild West.

00:03:12.700 Where does your love of Westerns come from?

00:03:14.600 Yeah, I didn't really grow up watching Westerns, with one possible exception.

00:03:20.960 My great aunt, whenever I'd go stay with her, she had just a handful of VHSs, and one of them was Three Amigos.

00:03:28.260 And I guess you could count that as, you know, it's sort of a take on Magnificent Seven anyway.

00:03:33.040 But what got me into Westerns as an adult was when I had my first son.

00:03:37.420 I decided that I was, you know, wanted to figure out what I was going to show him, what kind of movies and shows.

00:03:42.180 And I knew that, you know, I grew up on, like, Spongebob and whatever was on, you know, going on in TV at that point.

00:03:49.540 But I just wanted to give them at least, you know, a little bit more of the, like, old movies that I knew my parents grew up on.

00:03:55.980 And I knew that they'd enjoyed.

00:03:58.300 So, yeah, my wife and I, for holidays, we would just trade back and forth DVDs.

00:04:03.520 So we would buy each other for Christmas.

00:04:05.220 She would buy me three, and I'd buy her three.

00:04:07.180 And we'd just, those would be, you know, at least some of the gifts that we'd give each other and then watch them and get excited about showing to our kids.

00:04:12.960 And, yeah, now I have three sons.

00:04:15.120 And so Westerns are already a pretty big part of our entertainment diet, which has been a lot of fun.

00:04:21.040 So I'm still, I came to it as an adult, and I still feel in some ways like I'm in the shallow end.

00:04:25.880 But it's fun over here in the shallow end.

00:04:28.100 Absolutely.

00:04:28.500 Well, you're building a fantastic legacy, to be sure.

00:04:32.360 It's slightly better than the Spongebob.

00:04:34.640 Yeah, sure, sure.

00:04:35.400 All right, guys.

00:04:37.140 Well, we're going to go ahead and dive into the man who shot Liberty Valance.

00:04:41.180 But before we do, let's hear from today's sponsor.

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00:05:57.920 So the movie, for people who are not aware, is a John Ford classic.

00:06:07.740 It's a guy who did a lot of movies in the Western genre and outside of it.

00:06:14.700 He did The Searchers, but he also did things like Grapes of Wrath, those kind of movies.

00:06:18.900 And it's got some of the great actors when it comes to, well, any movie, but particularly Westerns.

00:06:26.040 Of course, you've got John Wayne.

00:06:27.600 You have Jimmy Stewart.

00:06:28.720 You have Lee Marvin as the villain doing a great job there.

00:06:33.720 I have always been somebody who came down more in the John Wayne camp.

00:06:39.000 There's kind of a division between, do you like your gritty Westerns, your Clint Eastwood, your spaghetti Western type, or are you more of a John Wayne guy?

00:06:47.480 Which, sometimes he can do more serious ones, like True Grit is a little more serious, but he also does a lot more of the hokier ones.

00:06:54.720 What do you tend to prefer in your Westerns?

00:06:57.580 I'm totally on your side on this debate.

00:06:59.880 I think that the gritty Westerns, for as much value as they have, and I've enjoyed those as well, I think John Wayne, at a certain level, knew how to pick projects based on...

00:07:11.960 I think there was a lot more humanity in his projects, I think, and it showed the sort of...

00:07:18.200 Yeah, you can call it sentimental or a sentimentalist view of the West, though this movie in particular is not a sentimentalist kind of movie.

00:07:24.840 But, yeah, I totally prefer the John Wayne ones, the hero riding in, and all the flaws are there, and you see the flaws, and you see everything else.

00:07:34.060 But, yeah, the pre-deconstructed Westerns are my favorite still.

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00:08:08.680 Yeah, just heading in here, obviously, we will be spoiling a movie that's well over, like, 50 years old at this point.

00:08:16.860 So, you know, run for the hills, I guess, if you're unfamiliar.

00:08:20.040 But this is your one and only chance to bail out.

00:08:24.000 So, there's a couple themes that work their way through pretty much all Westerns.

00:08:30.340 Many people have compared the comic book genre to the Western in that it's just kind of the mode in which all movies were being made at the time.

00:08:41.580 There is a little bit of truth to that, but I think it's a little overwrought, particularly because I think Westerns dealt with things a lot better.

00:08:48.800 You know, they really had much better ability to go ahead and search out certain parts of human nature.

00:08:57.220 But one thing that certainly resonates throughout a lot of Westerns is the approach of civilization.

00:09:03.480 You know, what it is to tame a frontier, what it is to conquer that, and then the approach of law and order, the approach of the government, the different things that are going to go ahead and make the West and tame it into kind of a more modern city, something that's closer to our normal society.

00:09:24.360 That's certainly something that's at the heart of the man who shot Liberty Valance.

00:09:30.040 Can you explain a little bit about the dynamic between Jimmy Stewart's character and John Wayne's character?

00:09:36.320 Yeah.

00:09:36.640 So, Jimmy Stewart's character, Rance Stoddard, Ransom Stoddard, is this lawyer fresh out of law school.

00:09:43.460 But we don't see him at first that way.

00:09:45.580 What we see him at first is this senator returning to the small town of Shinbone.

00:09:50.520 And so he's coming in on a train.

00:09:52.920 He meets a guy who we find out used to be the marshal of the town.

00:09:57.020 And so what we see him as is this guy who is high up politically.

00:10:02.140 The whole town rushes to see him.

00:10:04.200 And then we find out, you know, why is he there?

00:10:07.240 Why is this senator in the middle of this small town?

00:10:09.140 He's there to go to a funeral.

00:10:11.160 And he tells the newspaper man that.

00:10:12.760 And he says, who died?

00:10:14.320 And so you've got this.

00:10:15.780 And what we find out is that it's Tom Donovan who died, which is John Wayne's character.

00:10:21.060 But most of the movie we see Rance as this lawyer fresh out of law school.

00:10:26.640 A lot of high ideals in his mind.

00:10:28.360 He's got bags full of law books that he's coming in on a stagecoach with.

00:10:32.260 And then we see John Wayne, on the other hand, who has lived here for a long time.

00:10:37.080 And was at some level a huge part of keeping this town safe.

00:10:41.120 So Tom Donovan, he doesn't have any kind of official title there.

00:10:47.020 The guy who, Andy Devine is the sheriff.

00:10:49.740 And if you know him from any of his other movies, he's always the comic relief, the kind of bumbling character.

00:10:54.740 And so we've got Tom Donovan, this guy who is violent and a little scary, but also is relaxed and easy to be around.

00:11:06.180 And over against that is the sort of high ideals guy, the guy who thinks of government in terms of pieces of paper, books.

00:11:14.840 Um, I, uh, there's a, there's a great scene in one where he's, uh, where, uh, Ransom is washing dishes and reading a book.

00:11:23.000 And he, uh, Liberty Valance is the, the, uh, the violent sort of, uh, villain character in this movie.

00:11:31.020 And he's, he's looking at, uh, he's washing dishes, reading a book, Ransom is, and he sees a spot and he has somebody read it.

00:11:37.520 And he says, look, I've got, I've got Liberty Valance right where I want him.

00:11:41.040 So he's looking at this book and he, he thinks, okay, now this, this is where I've got him.

00:11:45.700 Um, and then what, uh, John Wayne, on the other hand, in his conversations about Liberty Valance, uh, says that if you're going to stand up to Liberty Valance, you're going to need a gun.

00:11:55.060 And you're going to have to learn how to use one of these.

00:11:57.160 Um, and one of the earliest scenes, one of the first scenes we see with, between, uh, Tom and Ransom is this great moment where, um, he says, so Tom tells Ransom, you're going to need a gun.

00:12:09.900 And then Ransom says, um, he said, what does he say?

00:12:14.120 He says, um, you're just, you're telling me exactly what Liberty Valance told me.

00:12:18.040 You're telling me what the bad guy told me.

00:12:19.480 Um, and so at the beginning, at least, um, Ransom can't tell the difference between Tom and this, uh, villain, this obvious villain.

00:12:30.340 Um, and so that's the, that's at least the beginning dynamic is this, uh, this lawyer out of law school.

00:12:37.100 And then this guy who has been a part of settling this town and their, their conflict, uh, and eventually, uh, erupts in a bunch of interesting ways, which we'll get to.

00:12:46.920 Absolutely. So as you said, he comes into town on this stagecoach and, uh, they're going to the town of Shinbone.

00:12:55.340 Shinbone is currently a territory, uh, but, uh, uh, Vance or, uh, sorry, Valance, uh, really represents the interests of the ranchers.

00:13:07.820 The ranchers want to keep this area, uh, open range so that they can have free feed for their, uh, you know, for the cattle, this kind of thing.

00:13:15.780 And he is there to enforce their will. He's got a small gang that he rides with, uh, and, uh, on top of his criminal mischief, he also is kind of represents this idea of keeping the area wild, right?

00:13:28.800 He doesn't want, uh, statehood. He doesn't want law and order to come in and enforce the fences and protect, uh, the land and the ownership of these different properties.

00:13:39.220 He wants things to stay the same. So he and, uh, and Tom Donovan, uh, are the, have a similar understanding of kind of where they are best, right?

00:13:50.060 This is, this is their, whether, even though one is good and one is evil, they both operate best in this kind of wild scenario.

00:13:57.820 But Ransom comes in and the first thing that happens to him, the way that he's introduced, like he said, before the, we get the flashback at the beginning where he's a senator.

00:14:04.760 So we already kind of know, you know, Tom's going to die. Uh, Ransom's going to end up with the girl. We already know all these things.

00:14:10.780 There's no tension in that. Uh, the, the, uh, the, uh, woman that, uh, Tom and Ransom are going to be fighting over is, uh, Haley, uh, I believe is the character's name.

00:14:21.360 Yeah. Hallie. Yeah. Vera miles. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, we already know how that's going to play out, but when he comes into town, he's jumped by his stage coaches is pulled over by Liberty Valance and his gang.

00:14:38.060 And, uh, I always forget, you know, that he keeps throwing dude in there. It's like, Hey dude, stand and deliver dude. Uh, forgetting that that's an insult, you know, as opposed to like something.

00:14:47.520 And so, uh, you know, they, uh, they go ahead and pull over the stage coach and we see right away that Liberty Valance is a man of high, or rather, sorry, uh, uh, Ransom is a man of high ideals because he tells Liberty Valance, Hey, you can't steal this stuff.

00:15:06.300 You know, there's a, like a brooch or something that the woman in the stagecoach with them, it's, it came from her husband or her dead husband or something like that.

00:15:14.660 And she doesn't want to give it up. And so Ransom attempts to defend her and gets beaten with an inch of his life. And that's how he's brought into town is, you know, he's, he is really destroyed by this idea that violence would be an option.

00:15:30.300 And he's willing to put himself between this woman and, uh, the highwayman, but he just completely is unable to stop them. And this is really the position he finds himself in immediately because he's immediately required to go ahead and come into town.

00:15:44.800 And he's not just, uh, recuperating there. He needs, he needs Tom Donovan, uh, Donovan's kind of protection in this moment. And he also ends up washing dishes and waiting tables. So he's immediately put in kind of this effeminate role. So, so he's already playing, uh, kind of the weak man in this society.

00:16:02.040 Right. And there's, there's a moment, um, with the scene, uh, at the stagecoach, I listened to a commentary where, um, Lee Marvin was talking about the, the scene and how it was playing out.

00:16:14.000 And, uh, Jimmy Stewart, at every time he got to the point where he was supposed to yell at Liberty Valance, every time he was supposed to talk him down, he couldn't get the words out. Um, and he just, for some reason would flub it every time, or just didn't have the confidence in him.

00:16:28.320 And John Ford, the director cut everybody, walked straight up to Jimmy Stewart and said, you are not a coward.

00:16:35.640 And so even at the beginning, you, exactly what you said, he's willing to put himself in the middle of this, but he doesn't realize at a basic level what it's going to take.

00:16:44.000 It's going to take to win this interaction. He thinks he can quote sort of out of his law books, the way that he learned in law school.

00:16:51.360 And, uh, we see this dynamic, like I said, play out then in the dining scene where, uh, Liberty Valance walks in. Uh, he recognizes that you have a ransom there waiting tables.

00:17:05.240 He goes ahead and trips ransom. Uh, ransom knows something needs to be done. He knows he's losing face, but he doesn't know

00:17:13.040 how to actually interact with this. Tom Donovan comes in and demands, uh, in a pretty, in a pretty great scene, uh, that he pick up the stake and, uh, Liberty Valance tries to get one of his, his henchmen to pick it up and say, no, you Valance, you do it.

00:17:27.920 He's obviously bringing things to a head and this just terrifies that. Well, it shouldn't say terrifies.

00:17:33.280 It horrifies ransom because he's like, you guys are going to murder each other over this stake. Like, I can't believe that you guys were willing to go into a gunfight over this stake. He still doesn't understand that there's there at no point is fair play or logic in the way that he understands it going to enter into the decisions that are being made in this moment.

00:17:53.060 Oh yeah. Yeah. And, and that, that scene, like you said, is, is a really great one, just even from like a filmmaking perspective. So if you're a, if you're a movie nerd, being able to follow the, all the blocking in there, it's just brilliant, but you, it's, it's one of those scenes that you could watch on mute and totally understand every piece of the character dynamics.

00:18:11.060 Because who's standing where and where in the frame they are, there, there really aren't that many shots in that one, but it's like a little, a little play where you're able to, again, see every little character dynamic. And that's what, that's, what's so great about, I heard this in a review. I read this in a review of, of this movie at the time. Somebody said that the Western is the most political of the genres because it takes abstract political concepts and put them, puts them in concrete actions.

00:18:38.040 Uh, and that's, that's the strength of movies is the, uh, a lot of the times in, in movies, they try to be like plays in the sense that they will put a lot of the ideas right up front in people's dialogue. Um, but this, at this, in this movie, it shows how concrete those things are, how, how all the ideas don't have to be, um, just in the schoolroom scene. So a lot of times the schoolroom scene ideas or the high ideas that, uh, Ransom says are in dialogue.

00:19:05.220 Like, but in reality, if you're watching the whole movie on mute, you know, exactly what's going on and what the real political realities are in, uh, Shinbone at this time.

00:19:15.180 Well, I think the worst crime in the entire movie, uh, is probably the fact that every one of these guys in the diner, uh, wants their steak burned.

00:19:23.020 Yeah.

00:19:24.180 I'm just sitting there.

00:19:25.500 Yeah.

00:19:26.240 Yeah.

00:19:26.920 Burn me a big one.

00:19:28.140 I think is what John Wayne says.

00:19:29.620 Oh,

00:19:30.060 every one of them has the same, the same terrible order.

00:19:34.180 You know, just, you can understand why everyone is so angry all the time, but there's, and, and, and within, within that same scene, do you have something you're going to do?

00:19:42.340 No, good.

00:19:43.080 Uh, within that same scene, um, that's, that's the scene where he's reading out of the law book and says, I've got Liberty Valance right where I want him.

00:19:49.860 So this is before Valance walks in and he hands the book over to Hallie, uh, who then, who then says she can't read.

00:19:57.080 And, and she says, Oh, do you think you could teach me?

00:19:59.820 And he said, Oh, I'll teach you.

00:20:00.660 It'll be great.

00:20:01.300 And then, um, and then some, after they've had the conversation about whether they can read or, Oh, can I teach you how to read?

00:20:08.240 Um, Tom walks in, uh, John Wayne's character walks in and he sees up on the wall, a sign that says ransom stoddard attorney at law.

00:20:16.360 He reads it out loud and he turns to, he turns to ransom and starts having a conversation about like, if you put that up, you're just going to get a shot down by Liberty Valance, but it, the movie doesn't jump up and down on it.

00:20:26.760 But at that moment, you've got one guy who can read and thinks that's exactly what everybody needs here in this town is I'll, I'll start a school.

00:20:33.840 And then you've got another guy who can read, who walks in, you see immediately that he reads, nobody, nobody goes, Oh, Tom, you can read.

00:20:40.600 Wow.

00:20:40.860 Wow.

00:20:41.040 Wow.

00:20:41.660 Um, it's just, he says it.

00:20:43.340 And then they start the conversation again about, again, that dynamic between, yeah, you can put that sign up.

00:20:48.920 Sure.

00:20:49.080 Go ahead.

00:20:49.860 Um, but you're going to get it shot down and you're, it's not going to be pretty for you.

00:20:54.060 Yeah.

00:20:54.440 It's important that Tom is not an idiot, right?

00:20:56.540 Tom is not just a brute.

00:20:58.940 Uh, this is a guy who has earned the respect of his community through his, uh, heroism, through his courage, through his man, being a man of action, but he is not completely without letters as well.

00:21:11.240 He may not be as advanced at ransom in these, uh, different areas, but they are operating on a level that is more equal in a playing field that is more equal, uh, than many other movies would necessarily portray that, that, uh, stark difference.

00:21:25.020 And I definitely want to get into the classroom.

00:21:27.540 Cause like you said, this is, this is also where we understand, we kind of know from the beginning that Haley is, uh, is John Wayne's girl.

00:21:35.880 Like everybody knows eventually John Wayne's going to make his move.

00:21:39.560 You know, he's, he's always, uh, he's brings her a cactus bloom, which is something that at the beginning of the movie, she wants to go see the cactus blooms.

00:21:47.020 And that's how they end up at his house when she's remembering, uh, about him.

00:21:51.880 Uh, and so she's obviously kind of, uh, something that he's got his eye on.

00:21:57.120 Everybody knows eventually that they're going to end up together, but the beginning of this learning, you know, the beginning of learning to read is also the beginning of, uh, Jimmy Stewart being involved in basically this love triangle of possibly being someone who could win away.

00:22:11.920 What was supposed to be inevitably the prize of the man who was taming the West.

00:22:17.140 No.

00:22:17.980 Oh yeah.

00:22:18.640 And, and the, the cactus blossom thing is huge there because yeah, he brings, brings her the cactus blossom.

00:22:23.080 And then after Tom leaves, they, they plant the cactus blossom outside and there's a scene between ransom and Hallie.

00:22:30.500 Uh, I don't, I think we're saying it differently, but I don't, I don't really know which one it is.

00:22:34.140 Uh, but they're looking at it and she says, ransom, isn't that the prettiest thing you've ever seen?

00:22:40.200 Uh, this cactus rose.

00:22:42.100 And then he says, well, yeah, it's pretty, but you know, you've there, you ever seen a real rose?

00:22:47.620 You know that we've got real roses out East, back East.

00:22:50.500 Um, and so again, that's this obviously an image for what is, uh, for who, um, and that gets picked up later.

00:22:58.840 This cactus blossom is an image for what, uh, John Wayne's character is in this movie.

00:23:04.480 Absolutely.

00:23:04.920 All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and get to the, uh, like I said, the, the school room scene.

00:23:10.480 Cause I think that's the next important thing to talk about.

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00:24:38.700 All right.

00:24:39.440 So the schoolhouse is a big deal in this movie because, like I said, a lot of this is about the advance of civilization.

00:24:47.180 We have these different hints that the time of John Wayne is probably coming to an end and the time of Ransom is approaching.

00:24:57.420 But Ransom is unable to do what he needs to do.

00:25:00.420 He's not able to really protect himself, maintain himself.

00:25:04.320 Civilization has not arrived substantially enough for a man like Ransom to flourish.

00:25:10.680 And so it's still John Wayne who is watching over him.

00:25:14.400 And this is one of the things that we see at the end of the the diner scene or the restaurant scene is Ransom gets very angry over the fact that John Wayne had to stand up for him.

00:25:25.500 He says, nobody fights my battles.

00:25:27.480 Right.

00:25:27.860 He's very again.

00:25:29.300 He he knows he should have the courage.

00:25:31.780 He knows what is going on, that is being belittled, that some kind of check needs to occur on Liberty Valance.

00:25:39.760 But he can't appeal to the sheriff because the sheriff is a coward.

00:25:42.680 Like you said, he's the comic relief.

00:25:44.740 You know, he slinks away every time Liberty Valance is in town.

00:25:48.460 And so he has to rely on unofficial sources, which it says, I think, something important about our society,

00:25:56.660 because we are as civilized people so used to being able to go to institutions, going to government agents,

00:26:05.520 going to some third party intermediary to take care of our problems.

00:26:10.880 We are very not used to asking our neighbor to expecting some kind of direct reciprocal protector protectee relationship.

00:26:19.700 Right. With that level of dependency that really builds a tight knit community is in many ways an anathema to us.

00:26:29.100 And so many of us, when forced into those scenarios where you have to ask a family member for a loan or someone would have to defend you,

00:26:38.900 you would have the same feeling like we are civilized people.

00:26:43.200 We should be able to just go to a third party.

00:26:45.020 Of course, we don't need, you know, some individual, some random individual who we are now beholden to.

00:26:51.140 But that indignity of ransom in those moments where there is no law and order, there is no third party.

00:26:57.260 It's simply him and Valance.

00:26:59.400 And Tom is really the only thing standing between him and that that violence, that wild violence that the West represents.

00:27:07.760 That's always something that's a huge tension for him.

00:27:10.360 Yeah. And the point about community is a big one, because in this movie in particular, it's the focus is so small on these handful of characters,

00:27:20.080 because that's where at least the action of the movie is.

00:27:22.860 But you once in a while get little shots of the town and how they function.

00:27:28.140 And the way and these this is a community that's been established, built and has places that they go that has people who show up to the restaurant and say,

00:27:36.340 oh, it's going to be the usual. And that's what everybody there is trying to preserve at some level.

00:27:42.020 But there's there's still at some level a desire for whatever's next.

00:27:46.640 Everybody knows that they're on a decision point between.

00:27:50.440 Yes. Is this going to be a state? Is this going to be a territory?

00:27:53.200 And, yeah, Valance does represent that.

00:27:56.980 What's what's fascinating to me, though, with with this movie in particular, we talked about John Ford being the guy who did the searchers.

00:28:03.320 He did. She wore a yellow ribbon, the quiet man, some some big movies with big set pieces.

00:28:08.440 This is a movie that was only shot on a lot.

00:28:10.720 And I think one location, I think John Wayne's house was out at a ranch on location, but you don't get Monument Valley in this movie.

00:28:19.640 You don't get those kind of iconic shots from a stagecoach, the same kind of thing.

00:28:24.520 But what you do get is this character element that's in all of these other John Wayne Westerns and all these other John Ford Westerns put right up to the front.

00:28:33.540 And so a lot of folks don't realize because this is in black and white that this came out before the searchers or came out after the searchers.

00:28:40.120 People think it was after was before because it's black and white, but the black and white choice was on purpose as as was the decision to shoot in a small space.

00:28:49.980 And it's because John Ford saw that this was a character story and he just put it right up front and really shows off again that John John Ford is not this sort of pure spectacle director,

00:29:01.440 but can focus in and understand the human dynamics of a small group of people where where, again, those decisions about where the country is going or where this territory is going are being made.

00:29:13.920 So Ransom Starter, Jimmy Stewart's character, decides to go ahead and start this schoolhouse, which is attached to the the restaurant.

00:29:24.240 And he's there going through the ABCs.

00:29:27.920 He's got many people, not just Hallie or Haley or however we're supposed to say it.

00:29:32.800 Yeah. But whatever consensus we come to, but he's also got most notably all of the minority or immigrant members in the schoolhouse.

00:29:45.640 Right. It's mostly the the two the Swedish couple.

00:29:50.540 Yeah. Restaurant odors. And then you have Pompey, which is kind of John Stewart's manservant, though.

00:29:57.460 They do have that moment later on where he comes in to drink in the bar and the guy tries to tell him, you're a black guy.

00:30:04.900 You can't come in the bar. And John Wayne gets very angry and says he drinks here if he wants to.

00:30:09.000 And then the immigrant children that are there.

00:30:14.080 And so there's all these different groups from kind of the outside of the community that are there and they're learning, again, to read and write.

00:30:22.600 But also, very importantly, he goes ahead and includes civics in the organization, in the lesson plan,

00:30:30.300 because obviously we're also working in the theme of what the United States is and what civilization looks like.

00:30:37.240 And, you know, so it's the Constitution says that all men are equal and the government does what we say it does.

00:30:45.600 It's very much our civics education is about the same, I guess, is the answer we're looking for here.

00:30:51.540 Yeah. Well, and you said a small correction.

00:30:54.760 You said it was connected to the restaurant.

00:30:56.360 The schoolhouse is connected to the law office, which is which is also the newspaper office.

00:31:02.420 The newspaper office. I should have been to the newspaper guy by now.

00:31:04.400 Yeah. Newspaper. Yeah. We'll definitely delve into his character because he's a fascinating piece as well.

00:31:09.860 But he he is also a high minded guy.

00:31:13.080 And at one point, yeah, there there's I will talk about his his sort of one of his final scenes later.

00:31:20.140 But the the the like lawyer and the journalist are in this room and then off to the side is the schoolhouse and the and he takes the newspaper in and says this is this is one of the best teaching aides around an honest newspaper.

00:31:34.560 And so he goes in and this article that was written in the room next door is about how we have to fight for statehood now.

00:31:42.140 It's going to be in all these ranchers who want it to remain a territory.

00:31:45.760 They're going to destroy our you know, they're going to destroy any hope we have to maintain this this town.

00:31:53.380 And this may be rushing the school scene.

00:31:55.920 But when when John Wayne comes in, he comes in the middle of the scene and he tells Pompey to get back to working on the on the room he's building onto his house.

00:32:05.020 And he basically basically breaks up the classroom saying Liberty Valance.

00:32:10.620 He's on the move again.

00:32:11.600 He's killed a couple of ranchers.

00:32:12.940 We know what we know that he's headed here as well.

00:32:17.540 And what he says to the to the newspaper man, he says he says, you've written some pretty words and you like and you ransom, you read them well.

00:32:25.660 But if you print that this town gets burned down.

00:32:30.960 And so, again, we have this the idealist.

00:32:33.460 We have the the idealists, I guess, in this case, versus a guy who says, don't print that.

00:32:39.380 And he he agrees with it.

00:32:41.020 He says not only can you read it, he also understands it and agrees with the arguments because he's one that's advocating for statehood later in the movie.

00:32:49.820 But he does tell them, yeah, don't do that right now.

00:32:53.780 There's still a big, scary monster that needs to be killed first.

00:32:57.920 And it's really important that he like you said, he has he's sympathetic to their arguments.

00:33:04.020 But because he's the one who has to do the violence, because he's the one who will actually pay the price.

00:33:10.860 He also understands the realities of how or how you could not implement that in a way that these guys who are constantly talking about their lofty ideals have no no ability to do.

00:33:22.620 And that, again, that's another big part of a big, big, big theme of this is, yes, ransom might represent something critical, some critical step in civilization.

00:33:33.000 But he cannot do this on his own.

00:33:36.180 And the the again, the thing I like about John Wayne, he can read.

00:33:42.100 He does understand these arguments.

00:33:43.420 He is on the side.

00:33:44.420 He's never the heel.

00:33:45.440 He's never the oh, well, the oh, he's never this guy who's just too backwards. 0.83

00:33:49.940 To understand what's going on or is fundamentally opposed even to something that will make his role in society somewhat obsolete.

00:33:59.300 He just recognizes the reality on the ground.

00:34:02.300 He just recognizes as the guy who would have to get the job done, that this is simply something that has to has to have its time come.

00:34:11.100 And he's constantly warning these guys that you can't rush into this.

00:34:14.800 You can't just go ahead and implement these ideas.

00:34:16.580 You have to have a practical way you have to deal with the aspect of violence.

00:34:20.760 You have to recognize those realities.

00:34:22.680 Quoting laws to these guys, quoting arguments, reading them newspaper articles is not going to do anything.

00:34:28.420 And again, hopefully everyone can grasp the the fact that this is very relevant in today's society.

00:34:34.720 Yeah.

00:34:34.800 And the it's also important to note that Jimmy Stewart, the Jimmy Stewart character is also not the heel.

00:34:40.920 He's he's also not just a pure like we look down on him as this, you know, this poor, pathetic guy, maybe an idealist, but he's he's weak.

00:34:50.180 He's he's a coward.

00:34:51.180 He's not a coward.

00:34:52.040 The first scene we see him in, he's not acting like a coward.

00:34:54.520 He's just ill equipped and naive.

00:34:56.720 And that's something, again, we see growth in that in the next scene.

00:35:01.680 But there's there's a on the board behind them as they're teaching.

00:35:07.380 He has he has written education is the foundation of law and order.

00:35:11.860 And so what he's doing here is he thinks that this is what we need to do to to create what we want.

00:35:18.280 What we want is this town to stay preserved.

00:35:20.940 We want these people, these people to grow up with some sense of love for what's going on.

00:35:25.280 We want the people to be safe.

00:35:26.380 We want women and children to be able to walk in the streets. 0.97

00:35:28.860 And then by the end of that scene, after the school, after the school house is empty early and it's just Hallie and Ransom.

00:35:39.340 Ransom walks over and erases that on the board, off the board and looks down and says to says to Hallie that that Tom is right in this whole situation.

00:35:51.820 And he recognizes that and that leads pushes pretty heavily into that next scene.

00:35:56.240 So is it the is it him training with the gun is the next scene?

00:35:59.600 Yeah.

00:35:59.860 The election is the next thing.

00:36:00.880 OK, so yeah.

00:36:01.920 So the next scene is, you know, basically it's revealed to Tom that he that Ransom has been learning how to use a gun.

00:36:11.540 The newspaper man had given him the gun so that he could defend himself at some point.

00:36:17.760 He's been sneaking out to train on it.

00:36:20.020 And so they go out and he ends up at Tom's house.

00:36:23.800 I forget exactly how I think.

00:36:25.780 I think he like he just grabs his wagon or something.

00:36:28.520 Yeah.

00:36:29.180 Yeah.

00:36:29.440 Tom says, come over to my place.

00:36:30.740 That's where we're shooting.

00:36:31.560 Yeah.

00:36:31.840 Right.

00:36:32.140 And so he's trying to just explain to Ransom how woefully equipped he is for this battle.

00:36:40.320 Like learning how to pull a trigger is not sufficient.

00:36:43.560 So they go through some of the mechanisms of shooting the gun.

00:36:47.180 And this is also where he goes ahead and reasserts his ownership over Hallie.

00:36:52.360 He says, this is, you know, this is my girl.

00:36:54.220 Want to make it clear to you because, you know, she seemed really worried about you when she found out that you might be with a gun and might might be in danger.

00:37:02.440 And so I just want to make it clear that, you know, you need to give me a wide berth here.

00:37:08.260 This is not your territory.

00:37:09.780 And he also has him set up the, you know, the paint cans to go ahead and do some target practice.

00:37:15.600 But he starts shooting the paint cans as Ransom sets them up and just douses him in paint just to make it very clear that, hey, you're not ready for this.

00:37:24.060 But like you said, Ransom shows some steel and immediately turns around and knocks John Wayne on his butt, you know, with a punch.

00:37:30.840 Right. And John Wayne seems to give him a begrudging respect for that.

00:37:36.440 You know, he yes, this guy is not a warrior, but he has a fighting spirit.

00:37:41.460 He has honor. He is not willing to just take that insult.

00:37:45.060 Right. And when he does try to fight back, he does so admirably.

00:37:50.220 Yeah. And how he shows, hey, Hallie's my girl, how he does that is he points to the room he's building on.

00:37:56.340 Right. He's building on a room to his house next to so that she can.

00:38:00.960 And that's that's something that he's been saying for a long time, building a room on my house so that when we get married, she's going to have a place building a porch and it's going to be her little spot.

00:38:09.740 And then in that shooting scene where he shoots the paint cans off, he says, I don't like tricks either.

00:38:14.700 So John Wayne says, I don't like tricks either. But tricks are what you're going to get with Liberty Valance.

00:38:19.620 You're not going to get a guy who plays fair.

00:38:21.080 You're not going to get a guy who walks his paces and draws.

00:38:24.080 It's it's going to be ugly and it's going to be tricky.

00:38:27.220 And why that punch is significant is that John Wayne wasn't expecting it.

00:38:33.120 So after after after after Ransom gets tricked, he punches back and within and then push.

00:38:41.800 Yeah, I'll maybe save this.

00:38:44.100 But it does push into the next scene and why why those character dynamics work the way they do after that.

00:38:49.920 So this is the midpoint. If you're a screenwriting guru, this is the midpoint is the punch.

00:38:54.640 So that's significant. That's a big turn in what's going to happen.

00:38:58.540 And the rest of the movie makes a little bit more sense.

00:39:01.920 The relationship between those two characters make a little bit more sense after after Jimmy Stewart socks John Wayne and John Wayne kind of smiles a little bit about it.

00:39:09.340 So the next scene we have, I believe, is the election right there.

00:39:14.360 They shut down Jimmy Stewart's character says we have to shut down the bar, which makes everybody very angry that they're not allowed to drink during the election.

00:39:23.020 But we see everyone coming in. The the the Swedish immigrant gentleman is very excited about the fact that he has his citizenship papers and the wife is crying because she's so proud that he's going to go participate in the election.

00:39:36.580 And this is also where we see the journalist really become an important character.

00:39:42.340 He is. I love it because it's the perfect portrayal of a journalist.

00:39:46.420 He's constantly talking about the importance of news, but he never wants to be involved in anything.

00:39:51.640 He's constantly drunk and does a lot of monologuing to his whiskey jug all the time in there.

00:39:59.780 And so they come in. Ransom has to run the meeting because he's the lawyer.

00:40:05.680 He's the only one who knows, I guess, Robert's rules of order or whatever.

00:40:08.820 Yeah. Well, yeah. But Tom is the one who hands it over.

00:40:12.840 Right. So Tom calls it to order and he says, I know I ransom started to come up here and lead this thing to share this thing.

00:40:19.520 Right. And the first thing that does is say, hey, I nominate Tom to be one.

00:40:24.120 They need two delegates. Right. And they nominate Tom to be one of these delegates.

00:40:27.960 He's obviously the guy everybody respects. He's obviously the leader of the community.

00:40:31.380 This should be who goes out there. But Tom immediately declines it because he says, I know I've got personal business.

00:40:37.940 And by that, he very clearly means I'm going to go get married.

00:40:40.520 Like I'm I am planning a life with this woman who I've been trying to woo this whole time.

00:40:46.460 I'm finally going to pull the trigger. Everyone's been asking me, when is this going to happen?

00:40:49.820 You know, the newspaper man when he was flirting with her is like, when can I print the wedding announcement?

00:40:54.360 You know, when you know, and so he's he's saying, I can't go to this delegation.

00:40:58.440 I can't this can't be my life. I have to go ahead and finally make good on this woman that I've been, you know, courting.

00:41:05.160 But I'm finally going to go ahead and ask her to marry me.

00:41:07.800 And so ransom is is put up.

00:41:11.220 But also this is where Liberty Valance comes in and Valance comes in with a couple of guys.

00:41:15.580 He's only ever got to the two gang members.

00:41:18.720 It feels like at any time if the town was just like, no, he would lose.

00:41:23.320 Right. Like, I understand he's a good gunfighter, but it's literally just like three on 50 at any moment.

00:41:28.520 Yeah. Well, and yeah.

00:41:29.740 And later on, we do see that happen, but it's only after a significant event happens.

00:41:34.020 It happens to be the title of the movie.

00:41:35.460 So so so the gang members come in with him and, you know, it's pointed out many times that he is not so he's not from south of the picket line, which I guess is a delineation of people who could vote inside the territory.

00:41:50.520 So he should not be able to make any he should not be a delegate, much less be able to vote, much less become a delegate.

00:41:56.940 But he has his own goons kind of put him up for this.

00:42:02.240 And then the last person they want, you know, someone else that's not him.

00:42:07.100 And so they go ahead and put the newspaper guy in the newspaper guy is just absolutely flabbergasted.

00:42:12.500 He hates it. You know, no, of course, I don't want to be involved in this.

00:42:16.080 I control the politicians.

00:42:18.680 I build them up. I tear them down. Right.

00:42:20.800 Yeah. The self-important journalist, the journalist, it's a beautiful depiction of of sadly what they're right.

00:42:28.120 You know, alcoholics who are on a power trip is pretty much the perfect way to describe a journalist.

00:42:32.920 And so, you know, they put him up.

00:42:36.380 And in the first act where the whole town really revolts against Liberty Valance, you know, even though he threatens them directly, he says, don't any of you?

00:42:46.840 You're all strong now. You're all brave now voting.

00:42:51.180 But at some point you'll be alone.

00:42:53.220 And so whenever you make that vote, don't be foolish.

00:42:56.900 Recognize that you're going to pay the price for this.

00:42:59.740 And still, despite all of that, the entire town votes for ransom and they vote for the newspaper man.

00:43:07.180 And Liberty Valance is hung out to dry.

00:43:09.860 He gets very, very angry, but he recognizes that he's kind of overmatched in this moment.

00:43:16.100 And so he goes ahead and cuts out.

00:43:19.280 But this is also where we get him calling out Liberty Valance because one of the things that happened was the or sorry, he calls out a ransom because one of the things that happened also is that the newspaper guy has his paper where a family was killed by the Valance gang.

00:43:35.340 And so he recognizes that these guys are a threat to him and he goes ahead and makes his makes his call out to Jimmy Stewart's character as well.

00:43:44.180 Right. Yeah. And and that that whole scene is is just this you see this kind of like gentleman off a little bit with with the two guys.

00:43:53.600 So like this whole movie, I mean, we kind of hinted at it, but the whole movie could be seen as this like baton passing between these two guys.

00:44:02.200 So like this this this John Wayne character and the Jimmy Stewart character.

00:44:07.780 But this is a real a real time again after this direct confrontation.

00:44:11.960 And both of them have kind of shown, OK, well, we're turning to different people.

00:44:16.820 But yeah, by the end of this, Jimmy Stewart has asserted himself as the guy who in some ways and in a legal way has defeated Liberty Valance.

00:44:27.620 Right. And so in the next scene, you get this you get again, the monologuing journalist with the with the whiskey jug excited about this new headline that he just wrote.

00:44:37.260 Liberty Valance defeated. That's the big oh, man, like that feels so good to write that down.

00:44:42.080 And and technically and in a certain sense, it's true. But but that's that's not how it ends up being, at least just because this newspaper came out and just because he lost the vote doesn't mean he's gone and gone as a threat.

00:44:56.800 But yeah, so and by the end of that scene, you've got, yeah, Liberty calls out Ransom and says, I'll meet you in the middle of town and be alone.

00:45:05.940 I'll see you there. And yeah, so that's that again, pushes pushes into the next scene.

00:45:11.960 This I've said this before, but the script is so tight in this movie that there's no there's no extra shot.

00:45:17.920 There's no extra scene. Even the stuff that seems superfluous at the time, you realize, oh, that really mattered later.

00:45:24.020 And so why I'm always talking about, oh, and this just like catapults us into the next thing.

00:45:29.860 It is amazing how much thrust this movie has for a small scale drama that doesn't have, you know, a guy pulling out a gun every five minutes.

00:45:37.500 But anyway, yeah, I'm rambling now.

00:45:41.340 Turns out that three hour and 30 minute comic book movies are, you know, a downgrade from.

00:45:47.760 Right. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:45:49.080 The special effects budget. This is this is this movie.

00:45:52.520 The only thing it ever won an Oscar for just random factoid was costuming.

00:45:57.160 And so I think it got nominated for a couple of other things, but it's it was the year that Lawrence of Arabia won.

00:46:04.680 So David Lean got it that year. But man, oh, man, this is yeah, this is a great one.

00:46:09.320 I've I've interrupted you again. No, no, it's fine. That's why you're here.

00:46:12.560 So the so the newspaper man during this, we should say, is beaten basically to death.

00:46:19.360 They think that they have when they see that headline, Liberty Valance and the guys.

00:46:24.060 And again, it should have been kind of obvious. There should have been some kind of security detail.

00:46:28.040 Yeah. Somebody like this is a very convenient moment where nobody in town notices the three most dangerous guys heading to the most obvious target available.

00:46:37.080 But they go into the newspaper office where the man is monologuing with his with his whiskey bottle.

00:46:45.340 They see the headline. They go ahead and beat him.

00:46:48.920 And the only reason he survives is that the henchmen think he's dead and say, hey, he's dead.

00:46:54.400 You don't need to keep hitting him. They break all of the windows.

00:46:58.380 I think they light a fire at some point. They break the printing press.

00:47:02.040 They break the press. Yeah. And so you're right.

00:47:05.200 It's interesting, you know, in some ways, Liberty Valance has been defeated by the forces of civilization.

00:47:10.940 Right. But it's insufficient.

00:47:13.940 Yeah. Yes. He has lost stature in the eyes of the community.

00:47:16.980 There's a little bit of sheen off the apple when it comes to Valance and, you know, his mystique, his air of invincibility, because they were able to stand up to him in some capacity.

00:47:27.760 But there's still no escaping the confrontation. There's still no escaping the physical showdown between these forces.

00:47:35.880 So he goes ahead and calls out Jimmy Stewart, who is very shaken from seeing everything that has transpired.

00:47:44.340 Gets the gun. He's still wearing his apron from dish washing.

00:47:49.000 Can I can I pause you for just a moment?

00:47:50.540 The as so as he's laying down the newspaper man, he's laying down on this little cot in his office.

00:47:56.920 And Jimmy Stewart sees him laying down in this cot, beaten again within an inch of his life.

00:48:03.400 And the newspaper man sits up and he says, I sure told that Liberty Valance about the freedom of the press.

00:48:10.160 Yeah. Yeah. I told him.

00:48:12.320 Yeah. Right. The the thing is broken.

00:48:15.540 Like the printing press is broken. He's beaten within an inch of his life.

00:48:19.420 All the papers he wrote are ripped up.

00:48:21.140 There's no evidence at all. Literal freedom of the press.

00:48:24.840 He's not he's not able to print anything.

00:48:28.100 But he at that even even at that moment.

00:48:31.620 I don't know if he at some level, you're like, there is this ironic and you're kind of supposed to wonder that.

00:48:36.820 But he delivers it with utter conviction.

00:48:38.500 I sure told that Liberty Valance about the freedom of the press in the same same kind of.

00:48:43.280 Yeah. That familiar tension between those two things.

00:48:46.460 One real in some sense, but not actual, not not tangible.

00:48:52.080 His words have inspired the community.

00:48:54.240 He in certain ways has bested him in the court of public opinion.

00:48:58.160 But that is not sufficient to secure his actual victory.

00:49:01.400 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:49:04.000 So so Jimmy Stewart, like I said, grabs the gun.

00:49:07.300 He heads into the alley.

00:49:09.460 He's in the shadow where Liberty Valance is standing in the light on the on the boardwalk.

00:49:17.540 And as he approaches Valance just immediately, you know, before he can really get the gun out, you know, can really aim at anything.

00:49:25.940 Valance starts toying with him.

00:49:27.300 He shoots him in one arm and, you know, Jimmy Stewart drops the gun.

00:49:31.760 And then he's like, hey, dude, you've got another you've got another arm.

00:49:35.060 Go for it. Gunslinger, you know, taunting him the whole time.

00:49:38.260 Jamie Stewart's reaching down with his his off hand and barely able to scoop it up.

00:49:43.880 Get shot again.

00:49:45.360 And right before it looks like Valance is going to go ahead and get the final shot off.

00:49:51.620 Jimmy Stewart, it appears, goes ahead and manages to shoot Valance dead in the street to the shock of everyone.

00:49:58.600 Valance stumbles kind of across the way, but immediately falls down.

00:50:02.680 And there's a great scene where, you know, they get the doctor and the doctor runs up and he's like, whiskey, quick.

00:50:08.920 And the brings the whiskey bottle to him and hands it to the doctor.

00:50:12.040 And the doctor just drinks the whole bottle.

00:50:14.660 He's dead.

00:50:15.640 And that that joke's been done in 10, 15 other movies and shows.

00:50:21.880 But that's the that is the like seminal moment of that great joke.

00:50:25.660 Yeah. So so so he's he's shot him dead.

00:50:31.020 Everyone is in shock.

00:50:33.080 Jimmy Stewart heads back to, you know, he's basically he's in shock.

00:50:37.880 He's he can't control his motor skills.

00:50:40.940 He doesn't quite know where it's going.

00:50:42.720 He's kind of in the zombie state.

00:50:44.020 He walks into the restaurant, the back room where he kind of lives to put the gun down.

00:50:49.420 And that's where Haley finds him, finds out what happens is comforting him.

00:50:55.140 And it's very clear that they are they're not quite kissing.

00:50:59.260 But, you know, she's like, you know, touching his head.

00:51:01.580 They're they're comforting.

00:51:02.360 Yeah, there's nuzzling going on.

00:51:04.280 Yeah, we're approaching that moment.

00:51:06.240 And Tom Donovan walks in on all this seemingly again at the moment, you know, hinting at the twist here.

00:51:15.040 But he comes in to learn what has happened or talk about what has happened, sees them in this embrace and recognizes.

00:51:24.280 Oh, I've lost her like once, you know, once she has sees him as the man who has protected the city, once she sees him as a man who has stood up for himself, that completes all of the things that maybe he was lacking previously.

00:51:38.900 All of the things that Tom represented that she wanted in a man.

00:51:43.360 And now ransom has become the complete package.

00:51:46.280 And he recognizes that he is no longer kind of in this competition and heads out immediately to the saloon.

00:51:54.280 Right. And that's the the exact moment at which she is clearly his now is the same moment that the town is clearly his.

00:52:03.360 This thing that John Wayne has been there longer at and has been a part of protecting and founding is now now belongs to somebody else.

00:52:11.660 And the woman that he loved and wanted to start a family with now belongs to somebody else.

00:52:17.420 Yeah, it's just it's this heartbreaking moment where at that point, yeah, the story makes sense at some level.

00:52:25.460 It feels like a tragic thing.

00:52:26.800 But while Jimmy Stewart has gone from this naive lawyer guy to tough guy who punches John Wayne and then afterward becomes the leader of this meeting, confronts Liberty Valance, shoots him dead.

00:52:40.420 And then, of course, he gets the girl.

00:52:42.800 Right. That's that's how the story goes.

00:52:45.100 Right. It makes perfect sense.

00:52:46.940 So John Wayne, devastated, walks into the saloon.

00:52:50.040 He just starts knocking back shot after shot.

00:52:52.760 And this is when the Pompey comes in and he says, no, of course he can drink.

00:52:57.660 Yeah. And also the the two henchmen are in there and they're trying to gin up the crowd to go hang Ransom.

00:53:10.000 Right. They want to create a posse. 1.00

00:53:11.360 They want to lynch him because, you know, he has killed their their boss.

00:53:17.260 Obviously, no one in town is buying this.

00:53:19.400 Right. They're not. They're not.

00:53:20.900 No. And when one of them finally is dumb enough to draw on John Wayne, John Wayne just grabs his gun,

00:53:26.400 and knocks the guy out and tells him to tell the sheriff to drag the trash out of the street.

00:53:33.860 The sheriff, of course, being the guy that he is, tells somebody else to do the job.

00:53:37.680 But now he's very brave.

00:53:39.280 He says, you know, you tell those ranchers that I ran you out of town.

00:53:42.940 If you ever come back, you're in huge, huge trouble.

00:53:46.100 But, you know, they they threw these guys out and John Wayne's character gets too drunk.

00:53:52.840 He eventually starts getting a little mean to people.

00:53:54.720 He starts kind of throwing throwing money around.

00:53:57.700 He buys the bottle that he's drinking, you know, screams that the band start playing.

00:54:02.220 We should all be having fun.

00:54:03.360 Why are you all acting like this?

00:54:04.820 And then stumbles out to head back to his homestead.

00:54:07.740 Yep. Yeah.

00:54:08.760 And and and before before the saloon scene and I want to I want to get back to it.

00:54:13.180 But before the saloon scene, he walks out of the restaurant.

00:54:15.700 He stands in the alleyway where he's where he stood before.

00:54:19.020 We've seen him there before.

00:54:19.880 And he lights cigarette his it's this beautiful shot again, all black and white, but this beautiful

00:54:25.560 shot of him lighting a cigarette, taking a puff on it and then just having a moment to breathe

00:54:32.520 after again, everything that he loved, everything that he built at some level.

00:54:37.680 He just that he just did basically the last thing that he'll ever do.

00:54:42.400 And he knows that that's the end of him.

00:54:44.680 He's just passed off everything.

00:54:46.860 And that's the moment.

00:54:47.960 And you get that little breath, a literal breath.

00:54:50.600 Right.

00:54:50.740 He breathes in the cigarette smoke, throws the cigarette and then goes to the saloon.

00:54:54.700 And then it's downward from there.

00:54:57.260 So he heads back to his home where, like you said, he was building this porch in this

00:55:02.860 extra room for the woman he thought he was going to marry.

00:55:07.240 Obviously, he's devastated and still quite drunk.

00:55:10.100 And so he goes ahead and throws like the I believe it's the whiskey bottle into the room.

00:55:16.600 It shatters.

00:55:17.940 And then a fire starts from there.

00:55:20.780 I remember it's a lamp.

00:55:22.280 He's holding a lamp.

00:55:23.400 He turns it up and then takes the thing off, throws it up against the wall that's just

00:55:27.400 been painted of this this room he built for Hallie.

00:55:31.680 Yeah.

00:55:32.160 Yeah.

00:55:32.420 And so I believe Poppy ends up pulling him out of the house.

00:55:36.300 So he sits down.

00:55:37.980 So John Wayne just sits down ready to die in this house.

00:55:41.600 Again, he knows.

00:55:42.380 Again, we'll get to this later, but he knows he's done the last thing he'll ever do.

00:55:45.120 He's just passed off everything.

00:55:46.860 So that's the end of his life.

00:55:48.980 And we find out later that it basically was.

00:55:51.320 It was basically the last thing he ever did.

00:55:54.060 And then, yeah, Poppy has to carry him out and then they have to let the horses go because 1.00

00:55:58.760 the fire is spreading.

00:55:59.920 Then the whole house.

00:56:01.100 So it's not just that room that he built on.

00:56:02.900 The whole house ends up getting torn away with the flames.

00:56:06.320 So I believe then they transition to the statehood convention, right?

00:56:12.980 Yeah.

00:56:13.140 I don't think there's anything in between there.

00:56:14.440 Yeah.

00:56:15.020 So the state convention is where he's brought up along.

00:56:20.540 You know, he and the newspaper man are there as the delegates.

00:56:23.060 And he's supposed to be the representative to Congress.

00:56:25.760 They want him to become the representative of Congress.

00:56:27.680 And the main selling point on why he should be the representative of Congress is he is

00:56:33.120 the man who shot Liberty Valance.

00:56:34.700 And this has already turned him into a folk hero throughout the territory.

00:56:38.740 And so he's going to be, you know, this very important politician.

00:56:42.580 But he has this moment of panic.

00:56:45.140 You know, he kind of steps off into a side room before the vote can happen and says, you

00:56:51.100 know, I and Tom is there and he says, I can't do this.

00:56:54.180 You know, how how could you choose someone just because they shot a man?

00:56:57.360 They murdered somebody.

00:56:58.260 How can I be a leader just because I murdered someone?

00:57:00.360 Again, not understanding still through all of this, that that is an important part of

00:57:05.660 this process, right?

00:57:06.800 That that that that actually the ability to to defend and kill was a critical thing and

00:57:12.320 still is still is in that moment.

00:57:15.320 And this is where we get the twist where Tom Donovan, still quite disheveled, says, oh,

00:57:21.800 don't worry, you didn't kill anybody.

00:57:23.820 And he reveals that he was the one who shot him out of nowhere.

00:57:28.240 But of course, he could not take credit for this.

00:57:30.920 He couldn't say, oh, no, you know, I ransom didn't do it.

00:57:33.680 I did it.

00:57:34.160 I'm the man who because it was outside of the duel.

00:57:37.840 He was in many ways a dishonorable actor by shooting Liberty Valance basically, you

00:57:43.540 know, in the back, you know, without without him knowing.

00:57:46.540 And so he saved the man who was bringing civilization in that moment.

00:57:52.580 He also saved the man who was taking his girl.

00:57:56.360 He created the scenario in which this man would take his place by being the one who shot

00:58:02.520 him. But ultimately, he is also absolving this man of the cost of assuming any of those roles

00:58:10.020 because he's the one that actually did the dirty work that paved the way for him to become

00:58:14.860 ascended.

00:58:15.840 Right. Yeah.

00:58:17.080 Yeah. And and so now after Ransom knows this, that he's again at another inflection point.

00:58:23.960 Do I let everybody know that the thing that I've been become famous for just and and this

00:58:31.420 is also important.

00:58:32.080 The gap between John Wayne almost burning his house down, the death of Liberty Valance and

00:58:37.580 this convention is weeks.

00:58:39.340 They say something about in the last few weeks, he's become known as the man who shot Liberty

00:58:43.140 Valance.

00:58:43.480 And so already in this time, he's got that reputation and he knows that that is the key.

00:58:50.820 He's he has no reason to recant or no reason to say it out loud.

00:58:55.380 But yeah, he's now at this inflection point.

00:58:57.980 And what he does after that little scene between the two of them is walks right back in the convention

00:59:02.940 hall where all these people are cheering his name and then John Wayne exits.

00:59:08.040 And that's the last time we see him.

00:59:09.820 The last time we see him alive.

00:59:11.200 Well, John Wayne gives this really important speech.

00:59:12.980 He says, you taught her you taught her how to read and write.

00:59:16.100 Yeah.

00:59:16.200 Now give her something to read and write about.

00:59:18.540 Right.

00:59:19.120 Recognizing that, you know, he is going to give her a better life ultimately, or at least

00:59:23.560 for what John Wayne thinks will be a better life than than John Wayne could have given

00:59:28.880 her.

00:59:29.520 And so it's important for you to go ahead and live in this legend, even if that's not the

00:59:35.800 case.

00:59:36.640 Yeah.

00:59:37.120 And this kind of wraps up the the flashback.

00:59:40.260 They go back to the funeral.

00:59:41.940 He's been recounting this whole story to the Shinbone star reporter now, but the current

00:59:48.000 reporter and the guy ends up tearing up this whole thing. 0.90

00:59:52.580 You know, he's been taking notes, you know, listening to this whole story.

00:59:55.520 He's got sheets and sheets of paper.

00:59:57.220 It's a huge, you know, exclusive and he tears it up and throws it away.

01:00:01.720 And, you know, Jimmy Stewart's character is confused.

01:00:04.080 Like, why would you do that?

01:00:05.160 And the guy says, this is the West.

01:00:07.240 If you have the legend, you print the legend.

01:00:09.540 You know, you don't ruin the legend for everyone.

01:00:12.120 And the whole thing is kind of capped off after they go through all of this funeral because

01:00:17.740 they're sitting on the train and they're, you know, the, the Porter's coming by and he's

01:00:22.880 asking if there's anything they need.

01:00:24.620 And Jimmy Stewart lets them know, you know, something he needs.

01:00:26.900 He's like, of course, anything for the man that shot Liberty Valance, you know?

01:00:31.000 And so he's, you can see he and his wife are disquieted by that.

01:00:35.020 They're still having trouble living through that lie.

01:00:38.840 Right.

01:00:39.800 And, and within that last scene, as they're leaving the funeral parlor or whatever it

01:00:45.440 was, um, yeah, the funeral parlor, it's basically a back room with a, you know, box plane coffin.

01:00:51.700 And as they're leaving, Jimmy Stewart looks back at the coffin and there's a cactus rose

01:00:56.280 sitting on the casket.

01:00:58.740 Um, and within this short conversation between the two of them, uh, he says, Allie, who put

01:01:05.400 the cactus rose on Tom's, on Tom's coffin.

01:01:08.520 And she says, I did.

01:01:10.460 Right.

01:01:10.940 So, and, and, uh, yeah, it's, it's this, uh, and, and pulling back to the beginning, uh,

01:01:17.080 this is a moment where, uh, she goes and they see the house where Tom Donovan, this burned

01:01:22.100 out house.

01:01:22.700 We've seen this house before we saw it burned down and that's all we knew about it, but

01:01:26.860 we didn't know that Tom did it.

01:01:28.020 We didn't know that it happened years ago when all these other events did.

01:01:31.200 Um, so we've seen this blown out house burned down with a bunch of cactus blossoms around

01:01:36.340 it because that's what she wanted to see when she came to town.

01:01:40.440 Um, so he wanted to go straight to the grave.

01:01:42.660 She went with the former Marshall to this little, uh, basically a little shrine almost to this,

01:01:49.680 to this guy who is in a symbolic way, this cactus rose, this, this guy who grew up, not

01:01:54.820 a lot of moisture of the irrigation, like, and the irrigation hasn't come out to this town

01:01:59.260 yet.

01:01:59.980 Um, but that's, that's the beauty that was there.

01:02:02.940 Um, and yeah, we get that little call back at the end, the very visual moment.

01:02:07.000 And then, yeah, that's, that's when the, the guy comes up and says, yeah, anything, anything

01:02:11.420 for the, nothing's too good for the man who shot Liberty Valance, but both of them know,

01:02:15.560 both of them know the real story.

01:02:16.860 And at some level they can't say, or they won't say, or that you're, you're supposed to

01:02:23.620 walk away from this movie with just this like sense of, oh, I've like in, in the same way

01:02:30.200 that they've at some level been ungrateful or, uh, is this ungrateful?

01:02:35.140 Is this take, is this taking something that isn't yours?

01:02:37.660 Um, and you're, you're supposed to walk away with those.

01:02:40.680 You're supposed to walk away with all of those because at some level we, like I said,

01:02:45.160 the town ran off with, uh, ransom at the same time that the girl did.

01:02:48.800 Um, we ran off with ransom and so we, we've decided to put away all the inconvenient aspects

01:02:57.160 of how society gets started, all the, all the ugliness, all the violence, the things that

01:03:01.780 aren't pretty and aren't, aren't, uh, nice.

01:03:04.480 Um, but yeah, so we're, we're her, we, we are, we are the girl who's gone off with this

01:03:11.200 guy.

01:03:11.560 And now by the end of this movie, we also know the story.

01:03:15.340 And so at some level, there's, there's, you see, if there's any culpability in this

01:03:21.420 girl, there's culpability in us.

01:03:23.300 And so this, this goes back to what I was saying earlier about, um, the, the people think

01:03:29.480 of the John Wayne Westerns as being naive or as being the kind of cutesy, oh, that's kind

01:03:34.600 of, uh, you know, heartwarming little simple stories.

01:03:38.300 This is one of those, if, if, if that's true of any of his movies, it's not true of this

01:03:42.260 one, uh, in the sense that this, this one knows about ugliness and it also knows about

01:03:47.220 how things get painted up.

01:03:49.000 Uh, and it's, it's very familiar with the way people, uh, deny things, the way people

01:03:55.040 justify stuff, the way people choose to forget things or choose to believe things.

01:03:59.580 Uh, it's like I said, very human.

01:04:01.480 This is a very, very human story.

01:04:03.260 Yeah.

01:04:03.760 John Wayne obviously did a lot of movies.

01:04:06.160 And so over the breadth of his entire career, he did have more hokey Westerns than against

01:04:11.420 maybe, than maybe say, which I love.

01:04:13.720 Yeah.

01:04:14.180 Right.

01:04:14.400 Yeah.

01:04:14.540 Yeah.

01:04:14.740 Which I enjoy those.

01:04:15.660 Uh, and to be fair, Clint Eastwood did a bunch of movies with the chimp. 1.00

01:04:18.280 So really, but, uh, but John Wayne does, uh, you know, scattered in there have, uh, some

01:04:26.900 of those grittier Westerns, you know, like some of those more grounded stories, the ones with

01:04:31.840 the darker shades.

01:04:32.560 So it's not just this, you know, clown versus reality, uh, you know, dichotomy there, there

01:04:38.340 is more there, uh, we've hit an hour.

01:04:40.920 So we're going to go to the questions of the people here in a second, but before we do maybe

01:04:45.580 just a little bit of the connections of the current themes or the, or the themes to the

01:04:50.200 current world, you know, obviously we're in a society, which is very much a, uh, not

01:04:56.680 just a ransom society, but almost a post ransom society, right?

01:05:01.220 The people who have brought the civilization, who have pulled all the John Waynes out of

01:05:06.620 the world, um, and made them irrelevant.

01:05:09.100 Uh, and we are so reliant on all of the modern things that come with the railroad as they

01:05:14.300 keep saying in the movie, you know, the approach of the railroad is the approach of civilization,

01:05:18.320 uh, for them.

01:05:20.180 And, uh, you know, we are so used to those things and we find ourselves constantly quoting,

01:05:26.460 you know, papers that people and these kinds of things and thinking that, that, that makes

01:05:30.800 change.

01:05:31.860 Um, so in, in a weird way, we're almost on the other side of this, where kind of in, in

01:05:37.500 some way law and order is breaking down and people are having a difficulty struggling with

01:05:43.200 the fact that the civilization isn't, it's not that the civilization is coming is that the

01:05:48.200 civilization has already come.

01:05:49.380 Um, and now it's kind of leaving and people don't know what to do in those moments in

01:05:53.000 which all of that complex, uh, you know, paper authority starts to break down because

01:05:59.120 they're so far removed from the John Wayne style of understanding the world.

01:06:04.140 Right.

01:06:04.880 Yeah.

01:06:05.300 And what this movie does, I think is helps us recognize those people so that we're not,

01:06:11.360 um, we're not surprised when we find those people in history.

01:06:14.600 And we're also not surprised when we find those people in the world and we also can look

01:06:19.040 for them and be excited about the, the Tom Donovan style characters that come along.

01:06:24.080 Because if, if we, if we aren't, uh, then we, we represent.

01:06:29.800 So a lot, a lot of people, even on the right and on the left will, um, represent the same

01:06:36.420 misunderstanding that Jim, Jimmy Stewart has at the beginning when he says, um, so Liberty

01:06:42.440 Valance says, Hey, what are you doing without a gun?

01:06:44.440 Why are you out here without a gun?

01:06:45.520 I'll, I'll teach you, I'll teach you about Western justice, you know, and he beats him.

01:06:49.460 Um, and then John Wayne says, Hey, if you want to stand up to Liberty Valance, you're

01:06:52.540 going to need a gun.

01:06:53.440 And so Jimmy Stewart taking that in says, you're telling me the same thing that Liberty Valance

01:06:57.780 did.

01:06:58.300 So you're, you're just as bad as this guy.

01:07:00.640 Um, but this movie actually helps us throughout the thing, see the fundamental difference and

01:07:06.240 fundamental distinction between these two types of people.

01:07:08.420 And so we're, we, we, if we see Tom Donovan without context, or if we see Tom Donovan with

01:07:14.820 our, uh, first half of the movie ransom brain, then we're going to see, we're not going to

01:07:19.900 see anything other than a villain.

01:07:21.440 And we, we won't be capable of seeing him as anything other than a villain.

01:07:24.860 But if we see him as a realistic figure, as something that actually had to happen in

01:07:29.360 order for us to be here, then we're not going to be necessarily, uh, like when men, and

01:07:34.380 we want, if we, if we want men to, if, if I, if I want to raise men, then I need to recognize

01:07:39.840 that Tom Donovan is a legitimate male figure and not, not something that is some, something

01:07:45.800 you should be embarrassed about.

01:07:47.020 Or, um, Tom Donovan probably wasn't, uh, didn't sit still in school.

01:07:51.120 Uh, Tom Donovan probably wasn't easy to deal with at the grocery store.

01:07:54.380 You know, it's like, okay, that there's, there's some, and so like, there's something here

01:07:58.960 that there's some maleness and there's some real, uh, masculinity that is there that can

01:08:05.660 be channeled in a way that is building and not just in a way that is the Liberty Valance

01:08:10.780 way.

01:08:11.400 Um, and so recognizing the, the two kinds that there is a distinction between these two

01:08:16.140 kinds of harsh, violent masculinity.

01:08:19.500 Um, and I, I say violent because that's what's happening in the movie.

01:08:23.420 Uh, but the, the, those are, are two different things fundamentally, and one, one is building

01:08:28.940 and one is trying to preserve a way of life that's been built.

01:08:31.640 And another was trying to preserve his own particular way of life.

01:08:35.120 That's out there that doesn't want a town to show up and doesn't want is, is just basically

01:08:39.700 in the like corporate interest side of this whole conflict.

01:08:43.940 Um, so that, that's something I think it does help with at least, uh, we can recognize these

01:08:49.460 people when they come along and actually root for people.

01:08:51.440 If again, I'm raising three boys, uh, root for my boys to be not just, uh, you know,

01:08:58.100 not be upset or surprised when they start acting like, like John, John Wayne does in this movie.

01:09:03.340 And CS Lewis is so good at reminding us of this, you know, he, he, he talks about Aslan.

01:09:08.660 It's not a tame lion, you know, obviously, you know, he's screaming, Hey, it's Jesus Christ

01:09:13.040 the whole time.

01:09:13.640 It reminds us that, you know, that, that part of what makes, uh, the lion great is his capacity

01:09:20.540 for violence.

01:09:21.320 Uh, you know, and he has that other quote, uh, about, you know, the, the, there are going

01:09:26.660 to be dragons out there.

01:09:27.700 So let, you know, young boys know that there's also knights that can slay them.

01:09:31.720 You know, the world will be violent.

01:09:33.940 There will be terrible things.

01:09:35.480 Uh, and so do not, uh, do not lie to young man about the need for righteous violence.

01:09:42.400 You know, those, those things are not things that you should forget, you know, uh, to,

01:09:46.420 you know, um, Jordan Peterson, of course, is somebody for a lot of people who talks about

01:09:50.860 this in the modern day, talking about how it's important for men to be dangerous.

01:09:55.180 Uh, you know, they, they need to control it.

01:09:57.340 They need to wield it in a particular way.

01:09:59.020 But this is a theme that I think resonates with a lot of people because it's critical in

01:10:03.260 the modern world where so many people have simply drawn this line of, you know, dangerous,

01:10:07.620 bad, violent, bad as where no, a more, uh, more nuanced understanding of the role that

01:10:15.720 this masculine feature takes in maintaining and preserving society is critical, especially

01:10:20.760 as civilization itself seems to be wearing away in certain areas.

01:10:25.260 Yeah.

01:10:25.600 Yeah, absolutely.

01:10:27.160 All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and move to the questions of the people, but

01:10:29.960 before we do Wade, where should they be finding your hilarious show?

01:10:33.280 You can search on YouTube Wade show with Wade.

01:10:35.480 Uh, I'm also on Twitter at Wade Stotts.

01:10:38.060 Um, but yeah, you can check me out on all those places.

01:10:39.940 And our, I also do a weekly podcast.

01:10:42.780 I just had, uh, just released an episode with our, and we talked about all sorts of things,

01:10:47.320 but it was back at NatCon when we got to sit down.

01:10:49.980 And, uh, so that's, that's a Canon plus exclusive.

01:10:52.660 So if you want, are interested in that, you can go to joincanonplus.com and promo code Wade99.

01:10:57.960 You get a cheaper first month.

01:10:59.500 So yeah, Wade got me alone in, in his hotel room.

01:11:03.040 Yeah.

01:11:03.560 I was very uncomfortable.

01:11:04.780 Yeah, absolutely.

01:11:06.240 And I just, I just, yeah, just yelled questions about politics at you.

01:11:10.600 All right.

01:11:11.320 Uh, so Cooper weirdo here says, uh, all right, Orrin, since you're such an expert, should

01:11:16.540 I get into James Stewart Westerns or John Wayne Westerns first?

01:11:20.560 Uh, you know, I'm trying to remember how many Westerns Jimmy Stewart was in.

01:11:23.940 Uh, Jimmy Stewart, obviously, and it's in a lot of movies.

01:11:27.020 Uh, he's actually in several of my favorite movies.

01:11:29.180 Vertigo, uh, is, is, uh, one of my absolute, uh, favorite movies.

01:11:33.100 Rear window.

01:11:34.100 Yeah.

01:11:34.420 Yeah.

01:11:34.600 Rear window, obviously.

01:11:36.040 Uh, and then though I'm a vertigo guy over a rear window guy.

01:11:39.320 Okay.

01:11:39.720 Interesting.

01:11:40.200 Yeah.

01:11:40.380 Yeah.

01:11:40.580 We'll do another episode on that.

01:11:41.840 You come on my show.

01:11:43.120 Yeah, exactly.

01:11:43.860 We'll do, we'll, we'll do the Morgoth, uh, in Denver where we, we skip over each other's

01:11:48.900 channels.

01:11:49.200 Um, but yeah, he, he's obviously in some amazing movies, but, uh, you, if you're a completionist,

01:11:56.420 you'll have an easier time, I think, completing the John Stewart movies before the John Wayne

01:12:00.160 movies.

01:12:00.500 But obviously John Wayne is a, is a classic Western character for a reason.

01:12:04.540 It's iconic.

01:12:05.580 Uh, you have, you have to watch, uh, some of the most critical ones.

01:12:09.040 And Jimmy, Jimmy, if you want to do both, you can do just the Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne

01:12:13.120 crossovers.

01:12:13.680 So if you want to start with this one, if you want to go and also the shootest, he's

01:12:17.400 in that one with him.

01:12:18.300 Uh, and I believe there are a couple of other ones, so might as well just watch them both

01:12:21.820 and then see which one sparks your interest more.

01:12:24.060 Whatever it takes you.

01:12:24.840 Yeah.

01:12:25.500 Uh, tiny stupid demon says, Oh great.

01:12:27.180 I come here for a reliable dose of civilizational doom, decline, and despair.

01:12:31.120 And you guys are watching boomer Westerns.

01:12:33.180 Okay.

01:12:33.660 I'll watch the movies.

01:12:34.840 Jeez.

01:12:35.800 Yeah.

01:12:36.200 I figured, I figured we take one day off from, uh, from civilizational decline, uh, to talk

01:12:41.560 about the, the actual introduction of civilization.

01:12:44.380 I thought we'd skip that one.

01:12:46.740 Uh, he also says, uh, do not quote laws to those, uh, who carry swords, Plutarch life

01:12:52.300 of Pompey, possibly relevant, extremely relevant, uh, and a lesson that, uh, unfortunately Jimmy

01:12:57.700 Stewart has to learn several times over, uh, in this movie.

01:13:00.900 Uh, this is actually just, uh, don't, don't quote, uh, laws to men with swords, the movie

01:13:05.380 actually.

01:13:06.400 Well, what's great.

01:13:07.260 And what's great about the movie is that it dramatizes that.

01:13:09.520 So you can, you understand it at an instinctual level in a way that you may not, even if you

01:13:14.700 just read that great quote, um, there's, there's a great moment in, uh, I think I heard Stanley

01:13:20.020 Kubrick talk about the end of 2001, a space odyssey, and he hated talking about it.

01:13:24.480 He was really like embarrassed to talk about it.

01:13:26.400 He said, I, when you dramatize this stuff, it works, but when you start talking about

01:13:31.220 it, it, it, you know, seems lame.

01:13:33.720 All the ideas seem lame.

01:13:35.060 So I, hopefully this conversation didn't seem lame, but the, the, the story, the story

01:13:39.460 itself really does dramatize all those ideas in a way that just hits home.

01:13:43.280 And so that you, your instincts at some level can be trained in a way that your intellect

01:13:48.140 can't on its own.

01:13:49.460 Absolutely.

01:13:50.620 Uh, Tom here says, uh, not caught you live in ages.

01:13:53.660 One of my favorite films.

01:13:54.800 Have you seen hell or high water?

01:13:56.600 It's like a neo-Western.

01:13:57.820 Yes, I did watch that though.

01:13:59.020 It came out quite a while ago.

01:14:00.700 Now, um, it's, it's weird.

01:14:02.620 You get old and you're like, oh yeah, a new movie from only 10 years ago.

01:14:07.060 You know, uh, you know, you're like that new band Led Zeppelin, you know,

01:14:10.900 kind of, yeah, back to, yeah, just a couple of boomers here.

01:14:15.400 Yeah.

01:14:16.300 Back to the previous chat.

01:14:18.940 Um, yeah.

01:14:20.040 Hell or high water is excellent.

01:14:21.280 That is an excellent movie.

01:14:22.360 Yep.

01:14:23.040 Yeah.

01:14:23.200 Uh, and then a creepy weirdo says, wait, are you a pepper?

01:14:26.400 Uh, I don't know.

01:14:27.900 He's a prepper.

01:14:29.240 Yes.

01:14:29.540 Uh, yeah.

01:14:29.860 I think he's going to be.

01:14:30.800 Okay.

01:14:31.120 Yes.

01:14:31.620 Yes.

01:14:31.900 Yeah.

01:14:32.280 Oh yeah.

01:14:33.160 Absolutely.

01:14:33.960 Yeah.

01:14:34.420 I mean, they, you know, he, he is out in Moscow, so, you know, that's crazy up here.

01:14:40.100 Yeah.

01:14:40.280 When they wake up, you guys, you know, you gotta, you'll have all the water you need.

01:14:44.220 Oh yeah.

01:14:45.180 Uh, all right.

01:14:47.040 All right.

01:14:47.560 Well, let's go ahead and wrap this one up guys.

01:14:50.100 Thank you everybody for coming by.

01:14:51.780 Uh, always a great talk in the way, like I said, make sure that you check out his channel

01:14:56.180 of course.

01:14:56.780 And if it's your first time on my channel, make sure you go ahead and subscribe, click

01:15:00.380 the bell notifications, all that great stuff so that you can know when I go live with these

01:15:05.100 discussions.

01:15:05.820 If you'd like to go ahead and get these broadcast as podcasts, you can do that by subscribing

01:15:09.840 to the Oren McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform.

01:15:12.800 And if you'd like to pick up my book, the total state, you can do that on Amazon, Barnes

01:15:16.340 and Noble books, a million, or your favorite local bookstore.

01:15:19.400 Thank you everybody for watching.

01:15:20.780 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - July 26, 2024

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance ｜ Guest： Wade Stotts ｜ 7⧸26⧸24

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