The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Problem of Dispensational Eschatology ｜ Guest： Joel Webbon ｜ 7⧸31⧸24

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

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00:00:03.740 I started wondering,

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00:00:08.500 Like that woman over there with the Italian leather handbag. 1.00

00:00:11.460 Is that from Winners?

00:00:12.660 Ooh, or that beautiful silk skirt. 0.99

00:00:15.200 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.420 Or those suede sneakers?

00:00:18.000 Or that luggage?

00:00:19.100 Or that trench?

00:00:20.220 Those jeans?

00:00:20.920 That jacket?

00:00:21.660 Those heels? 1.00

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.600 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.020 I've got a great stream with a great guest

00:00:34.740 that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:36.880 I don't usually dive into the specifics of theology,

00:00:40.900 but dispensational theology has a very significant impact,

00:00:44.100 not just on our churches around the United States,

00:00:46.940 but also in our geopolitical situation.

00:00:49.240 In many cases, our foreign policy is often determined

00:00:52.600 by the theology that a lot of Christians hold

00:00:55.320 in the United States.

00:00:56.240 So I think this one really matters.

00:00:57.880 And to talk about that with me today,

00:01:00.100 I have a pastor.

00:01:01.800 He's also the head of Right Response Ministries,

00:01:05.200 Joel Webin.

00:01:05.740 Thanks for coming on, man.

00:01:07.220 Thanks, Warren.

00:01:07.580 Appreciate the invite.

00:01:09.380 So for people who may not be familiar

00:01:11.420 with kind of your project, what you do,

00:01:13.020 could you give a little bit of your background,

00:01:14.480 how you got started, what you're involved with now?

00:01:17.160 Sure.

00:01:17.680 So I'm a local pastor,

00:01:18.780 and I did what many evangelical local pastors did

00:01:22.520 back in 2009.

00:01:24.400 I was born and raised in Texas,

00:01:25.980 but in 2009, moved with some of my college buddies

00:01:29.620 as a young single man to the state of California

00:01:33.860 because California needs churches,

00:01:35.600 and I'm going to plant a church,

00:01:36.900 and I'm going to be a missionary.

00:01:38.580 And so I abandoned my mother and father,

00:01:41.740 left my heritage, left my family,

00:01:44.360 all those kinds of things,

00:01:45.280 in a kind of typical Tim Keller, Russell Moore-esque

00:01:49.560 kind of when church planting,

00:01:51.780 it was the church growth movement,

00:01:53.360 with Bill Hybels. 0.84

00:01:54.480 It's how many butts and seats. 1.00

00:01:56.100 And then we realized that was vanity.

00:01:58.480 And so we're still going to care about numbers,

00:02:00.960 but now the number will be

00:02:01.740 how many churches have you planted

00:02:03.200 instead of how many people do you have in one room?

00:02:05.400 And so I did that.

00:02:06.920 And then over time,

00:02:09.500 I bit off more than I could chew.

00:02:11.160 I wasn't qualified.

00:02:11.820 But then I got married.

00:02:12.480 By the grace of God, we had children

00:02:13.640 and started to realize that California long-term

00:02:17.240 wasn't where we wanted to raise our kids

00:02:19.140 for cultural reasons, political reasons,

00:02:21.040 and familial reasons.

00:02:22.580 We didn't want to set the example for our children

00:02:24.860 that when you become an adult,

00:02:27.080 you leave mom and dad,

00:02:28.320 you go on the other side of the country,

00:02:30.740 and you break apart the family.

00:02:33.580 And so we made the switch in 2020,

00:02:36.700 December of 2020,

00:02:38.260 started already feeling like

00:02:39.900 we'll probably move back to Texas eventually.

00:02:42.040 COVID was a catalyst.

00:02:43.880 And God in his sovereignty saying,

00:02:46.040 you know what, now is probably a good time.

00:02:48.100 So we moved back, planted a church here.

00:02:49.640 So I'm a local pastor of Covenant Bible Church

00:02:51.960 in Central Texas, Georgetown, Texas.

00:02:54.900 It's north of Austin,

00:02:56.320 far enough away to where, Lord willing,

00:02:58.160 we don't have the police defunded,

00:03:00.040 but close enough to where, you know,

00:03:01.340 a guy can hop on a toll in 40 minutes.

00:03:03.040 He can go work for Elon.

00:03:04.400 And so there's economic activity,

00:03:06.480 ministry opportunity,

00:03:07.360 but also still a more conservative feel

00:03:10.560 and some safeties and provisions there.

00:03:12.720 And so the church is about three and a half years old.

00:03:15.280 Went from 20 people in the living room

00:03:16.860 to now about 230, 240 people.

00:03:20.380 Half of those being little people,

00:03:22.340 children, who we are very privileged to have

00:03:24.680 as a part of our congregation.

00:03:26.080 And then in the mix,

00:03:28.040 somewhere along the line,

00:03:29.160 my sermons, you know,

00:03:30.580 started getting a little bit more viewership

00:03:33.080 and activity.

00:03:33.580 And I decided, well,

00:03:34.960 in addition to recording the sermons,

00:03:36.320 maybe we'll do a podcast

00:03:37.240 and started having guests.

00:03:38.800 And out of that,

00:03:39.840 Right Response Ministries

00:03:40.860 as a separate organization

00:03:42.240 to the local church was forged.

00:03:44.800 And God has blessed it

00:03:45.920 and talk about culture and politics

00:03:48.420 from a pastoral theological point of view.

00:03:51.980 And I knew you guys have a conference

00:03:53.640 coming up next year.

00:03:54.660 Actually, I'll be speaking at it.

00:03:56.140 Can you tell people a little bit about that?

00:03:57.800 Yeah, thanks for that opportunity.

00:03:59.340 Yeah, we're honored to have you.

00:04:00.500 We're going for a stacked, super-based lineup.

00:04:04.120 The kind of conference that

00:04:06.380 if the regime kind of evangelical type person came,

00:04:13.340 that they would just kind of melt

00:04:15.320 into a puddle on the floor.

00:04:17.560 It would be jarring for them.

00:04:19.540 So we've got Steve Dace.

00:04:20.740 We've got Orrin McIntyre,

00:04:22.460 the one and only.

00:04:23.220 We've got Stephen Wolfe,

00:04:24.380 who's the author of

00:04:25.500 The Case for Christian Nationalism. 0.87

00:04:27.840 And then some of the Ogden, Utah guys,

00:04:30.080 New Christendom Press.

00:04:31.140 That's Brian Sauve, Eric Kahn,

00:04:32.540 Dan Burkholder, Ben Garrett.

00:04:34.720 And then we've got Dusty Devers,

00:04:36.220 who is a local pastor,

00:04:38.240 but also a state senator in Oklahoma.

00:04:40.660 Many people have seen him circulating

00:04:43.040 around the interweb.

00:04:45.260 Jeff Durbin is going to be at the conference.

00:04:47.540 We've got the Boniface option,

00:04:49.160 who you've had on your show before.

00:04:50.900 That's Andrew Isker.

00:04:52.000 So we're excited to have him.

00:04:53.900 Aidy Robles, John Harris,

00:04:55.540 and a host of others.

00:04:56.540 Some of them are theonomic guys.

00:04:59.940 Some of them are natural law,

00:05:01.520 kind of in the vein of Stephen Wolfe,

00:05:04.280 Protestant magisterial guys.

00:05:06.060 But everyone would fall under the banner

00:05:07.920 of whether they wear the moniker

00:05:09.360 of Christian nationalism

00:05:10.480 or prefer paleoconservative.

00:05:13.220 They're all kind of new right guys,

00:05:15.720 conservatives with teeth.

00:05:18.600 I love that the new right

00:05:20.320 is pretty much just the old right before.

00:05:22.780 I know, I know, I know.

00:05:24.560 No, it's just ironic, that's all.

00:05:27.460 But yeah, I know a lot of people

00:05:28.780 are going to be looking forward to that.

00:05:30.300 So everybody make sure to check that out.

00:05:32.580 Go to responseconference.com,

00:05:35.520 right responseconference.com.

00:05:38.340 And it's early bird pricing right now

00:05:40.040 for an adult.

00:05:41.160 It's three full days,

00:05:42.940 like 15 speakers,

00:05:44.640 lots of content,

00:05:46.200 and it's only 130 bucks right now.

00:05:48.040 And so it's going to be 2025, April,

00:05:51.960 I believe it's 3rd, 4th, and 5th,

00:05:54.140 a Thursday through Saturday.

00:05:55.520 There you go.

00:05:56.180 The church conference

00:05:57.060 that will scare David French.

00:05:58.600 Yes.

00:05:59.940 All right.

00:06:00.800 Well, we are going to dive

00:06:02.620 into dispensational theology.

00:06:04.700 What is it?

00:06:05.380 Where did it come from?

00:06:06.700 How does it apply to our world today?

00:06:08.740 How does it impact things?

00:06:09.720 Are there any problems with it?

00:06:11.140 We're going to talk about all of that.

00:06:12.220 But before we do, guys,

00:06:13.020 let me tell you a little bit about ISI.

00:06:15.260 Universities today

00:06:15.940 aren't just neglecting real education.

00:06:18.180 They're actively undermining it.

00:06:19.540 And we can't let them get away with it.

00:06:21.180 America was made for an educated

00:06:22.900 and engaged citizenry.

00:06:24.740 The Intercollegiate Studies Institute

00:06:26.280 is here to help.

00:06:27.600 ISI offers programs

00:06:28.920 and opportunities

00:06:30.160 for conservative students

00:06:32.020 across the country.

00:06:33.720 ISI understands

00:06:34.880 that conservatives

00:06:35.640 and right-of-center students

00:06:37.160 feel isolated on college campuses

00:06:39.240 and that you're often fighting

00:06:40.720 for your own reputation,

00:06:42.460 dignity, and future.

00:06:44.160 Through ISI,

00:06:44.960 you can learn about

00:06:45.760 what Russell Kirk called

00:06:46.900 the permanent things.

00:06:48.040 The philosophical and political teachings

00:06:50.080 that shaped and made

00:06:51.380 Western civilization great.

00:06:53.340 ISI offers many opportunities

00:06:54.820 to jumpstart your career.

00:06:56.460 They have fellowships

00:06:57.240 at some of the nation's

00:06:58.140 top conservative publications

00:06:59.560 like National Review,

00:07:00.800 The American Conservative,

00:07:02.240 and The College Thinker.

00:07:03.520 If you're a graduate student,

00:07:04.820 ISI offers funding opportunities

00:07:06.420 to sponsor the next great generation

00:07:08.060 of college professors.

00:07:09.600 Through ISI,

00:07:10.460 you can work with conservative thinkers

00:07:12.020 who are making a difference.

00:07:13.180 Thinkers like Chris Ruffo,

00:07:14.920 who currently has an ISI researcher

00:07:17.020 helping him with his book.

00:07:18.560 But perhaps most importantly,

00:07:19.880 ISI offers college students

00:07:21.400 a community of people

00:07:22.500 that can help them grow.

00:07:23.940 If you're a college student,

00:07:25.200 ISI can help you start

00:07:26.340 a student organization

00:07:27.340 or student newspaper

00:07:28.760 or meet other like-minded students

00:07:30.920 at their various conferences

00:07:32.140 and events.

00:07:33.460 ISI is here to educate

00:07:34.600 the next generation

00:07:35.540 of great Americans.

00:07:36.460 To learn more,

00:07:37.920 go to ISI.org.

00:07:40.000 That's ISI.org.

00:07:41.060 All right, Joel.

00:07:42.500 So I think for a lot of people,

00:07:44.540 when they're going to hear

00:07:45.360 about dispensational theology,

00:07:46.740 that's just going to sound

00:07:47.900 like what they've always heard

00:07:49.100 at their home church.

00:07:50.540 This is something

00:07:51.040 that's very prevalent,

00:07:52.060 especially in evangelical circles.

00:07:54.700 And so I think it's pretty much

00:07:56.100 what most people assume

00:07:57.280 has always been

00:07:58.320 what is taught

00:07:59.040 throughout church history.

00:08:00.680 But as you kind of

00:08:01.920 understand more about it,

00:08:03.020 it's actually relatively new

00:08:04.940 and does diverge

00:08:06.580 a decent amount

00:08:07.160 from many of the traditions

00:08:08.700 before him.

00:08:09.440 So could you explain

00:08:10.440 what dispensational theology is

00:08:13.000 and how it might differ

00:08:14.000 from what the church

00:08:15.540 had taught previously?

00:08:17.020 Absolutely.

00:08:17.580 Yeah.

00:08:17.860 So you may not even be familiar

00:08:20.260 with the word

00:08:20.900 and theology might seem like

00:08:22.360 a subject that is intimidating

00:08:24.740 for a lot of Christians,

00:08:27.040 faithful laymen,

00:08:28.480 blue-collar Christians.

00:08:30.000 But the old adage of

00:08:31.840 two fish are swimming

00:08:33.200 in the water,

00:08:33.940 you know,

00:08:34.360 in the ocean

00:08:34.960 and passing by each other

00:08:36.220 and one of the fish

00:08:36.900 says to the other one,

00:08:37.900 you know,

00:08:38.060 the water sure is nice today.

00:08:39.720 And the other fish responds

00:08:41.220 by saying,

00:08:41.640 what's water?

00:08:42.940 That's dispensationalism.

00:08:45.020 If you grew up in America

00:08:47.120 in the 20th or 21st century,

00:08:50.240 you were a dispensationalist

00:08:52.000 before you were even a Christian. 0.50

00:08:53.480 Like the old joke,

00:08:54.680 like I was a Baptist

00:08:55.300 before I was even a Christian.

00:08:56.500 Well, likewise,

00:08:57.800 it would be true

00:08:59.000 in the same sense

00:08:59.700 that you were probably

00:09:00.500 a dispensationalist

00:09:01.560 and probably are

00:09:02.660 a dispensationalist,

00:09:04.080 even if you have

00:09:05.340 never heard the term.

00:09:06.240 So dispensationalism

00:09:07.240 is the idea.

00:09:09.640 Dispensationalism

00:09:10.040 comes from dispensations.

00:09:11.720 Dispensations simply meaning

00:09:12.980 eras or periods of time.

00:09:15.840 And so the idea is that

00:09:17.060 you can kind of

00:09:18.580 chop up the Bible. 0.67

00:09:19.940 One of the verses

00:09:20.460 that they would use

00:09:21.060 out of context is,

00:09:22.100 you know,

00:09:22.580 rightly dividing

00:09:23.560 the word of truth,

00:09:24.900 you know.

00:09:25.080 and so can you

00:09:27.060 as a theologian,

00:09:28.540 as a biblical scholar,

00:09:29.760 you know,

00:09:30.060 rightly,

00:09:31.100 you know,

00:09:31.460 accurately chop up

00:09:32.700 the Bible

00:09:33.080 because there's

00:09:34.560 all these dispensations

00:09:36.280 and like all theologies,

00:09:38.500 there's a spectrum

00:09:39.060 of, you know,

00:09:39.940 different nuances

00:09:40.720 and different,

00:09:41.420 you know,

00:09:41.700 particular subcategories.

00:09:43.080 But in general,

00:09:44.620 dispensationalists

00:09:45.600 would say

00:09:46.120 that the Bible

00:09:47.820 is divisible

00:09:48.980 into categories

00:09:50.760 of time,

00:09:52.060 dispensations,

00:09:52.820 and in each of these,

00:09:54.360 God is,

00:09:55.740 in a sense,

00:09:56.800 they would nuance

00:09:57.540 it a little bit more,

00:09:58.340 but essentially

00:09:58.820 God is changing.

00:10:00.400 God is doing one thing

00:10:01.720 in the garden

00:10:02.300 before sin enters the world

00:10:03.700 with Adam and Eve

00:10:04.460 and then he's doing

00:10:05.060 another thing

00:10:05.780 after sin enters the world

00:10:07.340 and then he starts,

00:10:08.240 you know,

00:10:08.460 kind of another project

00:10:09.460 with Abraham

00:10:10.080 and then another project

00:10:11.380 with Moses,

00:10:12.740 you know,

00:10:13.180 and maybe a little

00:10:14.100 side project

00:10:14.860 with Noah in between

00:10:16.080 and then David,

00:10:17.540 you know,

00:10:17.800 and then the big idea

00:10:19.180 is the New Testament

00:10:20.160 is this entirely

00:10:21.860 severed,

00:10:22.820 separate,

00:10:24.020 you know,

00:10:24.400 divorced,

00:10:25.220 and that's where

00:10:25.760 you get guys like,

00:10:26.800 you know,

00:10:27.080 Andy Stanley,

00:10:27.920 you know,

00:10:28.180 like,

00:10:28.460 well,

00:10:28.680 it's the New Testament

00:10:29.500 is all that matters.

00:10:30.460 I'm a New Testament Christian.

00:10:31.820 We need to unhitch

00:10:33.080 from the Old Testament,

00:10:34.260 you know,

00:10:34.480 and then,

00:10:35.200 you know,

00:10:35.720 consequently,

00:10:36.400 you unhitch

00:10:36.800 from traditional marriage

00:10:38.200 and you unhitch 0.89

00:10:39.440 from sanity

00:10:40.200 and everything else

00:10:41.540 and so it's this

00:10:42.620 very,

00:10:43.500 very segmented,

00:10:45.880 severed,

00:10:47.180 separated

00:10:48.180 and divided

00:10:48.920 theology

00:10:49.980 and as it pertains

00:10:51.680 to the New Testament,

00:10:52.440 and that's the big

00:10:53.440 dispensation.

00:10:54.460 We've been in this

00:10:55.180 2,000-year moment,

00:10:57.320 dispensation,

00:10:58.100 error of time,

00:10:59.160 but all it really is

00:11:00.580 is it's a parenthesis.

00:11:02.780 It's this parenthetical moment

00:11:04.340 where God has this

00:11:05.780 original

00:11:06.380 and primary plan

00:11:09.040 for the nation-state

00:11:11.280 of Israel

00:11:11.980 that are His chosen people,

00:11:13.960 but Israel,

00:11:14.960 because they rejected

00:11:16.200 their Messiah

00:11:17.220 2,000 years ago

00:11:18.660 in the earthly ministry

00:11:19.420 of Christ,

00:11:20.460 God decided

00:11:21.360 to have

00:11:22.100 a separate,

00:11:23.720 a B plan

00:11:24.580 and so we've been living

00:11:26.180 for these past 2,000 years

00:11:27.800 in this 2,000-year-long

00:11:29.060 parenthetical

00:11:29.860 era moment

00:11:31.120 where God is

00:11:32.020 doing something

00:11:32.940 with His stepchildren.

00:11:34.240 He's doing something

00:11:35.440 with the church,

00:11:36.580 but He's really excited

00:11:38.040 about Israel

00:11:38.740 and we've been given

00:11:39.640 a seat at the table

00:11:40.980 as all good stepfathers

00:11:43.160 allow for,

00:11:44.040 but there's

00:11:45.160 the rebellious

00:11:46.220 natural-born child,

00:11:48.440 the biological child

00:11:49.760 who's kind of

00:11:51.100 standing off to the side

00:11:52.360 and he took his ball

00:11:53.500 and went home

00:11:54.060 and I'm not sitting

00:11:54.820 at the table

00:11:55.340 and I'm mad at Dad,

00:11:56.780 but the stepchild

00:11:57.880 has been obedient

00:11:58.760 and has been

00:12:00.260 receptive of the gospel

00:12:02.080 and loves the Father

00:12:03.420 and so he's sitting

00:12:04.220 kind of at the far end

00:12:05.160 of the table

00:12:05.660 and Dad will give him

00:12:06.560 a glance

00:12:07.100 every now and then

00:12:08.240 and maybe an attaboy

00:12:09.220 if he does really good,

00:12:10.400 but Dad really likes

00:12:13.040 the rebellious child

00:12:14.280 who hates Dad

00:12:15.180 because he's

00:12:15.960 the natural-born

00:12:16.600 biological child

00:12:17.540 and we're really

00:12:18.120 just waiting

00:12:18.720 for that child

00:12:19.820 to come back

00:12:20.720 and then we get back

00:12:21.900 to the A plan,

00:12:23.120 God's real purpose

00:12:24.180 that He's really excited

00:12:26.340 about with Israel,

00:12:27.620 but the Gentiles, 0.92

00:12:29.400 you know,

00:12:29.860 they'll get some crumbs.

00:12:32.400 So how does this differ

00:12:34.520 from what the church

00:12:36.660 had taught before?

00:12:37.540 What was,

00:12:38.520 before dispensationalism

00:12:39.860 came along,

00:12:41.160 what was the understanding

00:12:42.060 or relationship

00:12:42.840 between God and Gentiles, 1.00

00:12:44.800 God and the church

00:12:45.580 and God and the nation-state

00:12:47.200 or biological people

00:12:48.660 of Israel?

00:12:49.740 Right,

00:12:50.300 so just like any,

00:12:51.780 you know,

00:12:52.060 philosophy or,

00:12:53.120 you know,

00:12:54.180 ideology,

00:12:55.220 theology,

00:12:56.200 likewise,

00:12:57.160 you know,

00:12:57.400 has counterpoints

00:12:59.200 and so within

00:13:00.760 the theological framework,

00:13:02.120 you know,

00:13:02.440 continuationism

00:13:03.500 as it pertains

00:13:04.780 to the gifts

00:13:05.780 of the Spirit

00:13:06.320 would be the idea

00:13:07.220 that the gifts

00:13:08.220 of the Spirit,

00:13:08.780 supernatural sign gifts

00:13:10.020 continued today,

00:13:11.380 things like miracles,

00:13:13.300 you know,

00:13:13.620 or prophecy.

00:13:14.800 And then the counterpoint

00:13:15.860 would be cessationism,

00:13:17.200 that certain,

00:13:18.060 not all,

00:13:18.460 but certain gifts

00:13:19.120 have ceased.

00:13:20.160 Well,

00:13:20.320 likewise,

00:13:20.760 as it pertains

00:13:21.280 to dispensationalism,

00:13:22.940 the counter-theological

00:13:24.440 movement and viewpoint

00:13:26.140 is called covenant theology.

00:13:28.580 And covenant theology

00:13:29.580 is the predominant view

00:13:31.000 of the church

00:13:31.580 that was held

00:13:32.100 all the way up

00:13:32.800 until about

00:13:33.940 the mid-19th century.

00:13:35.300 So about,

00:13:36.520 you know,

00:13:37.140 1,850 years,

00:13:39.360 you have covenant theology.

00:13:41.060 Even if it doesn't go

00:13:42.080 by that particular name,

00:13:43.400 that's the reigning dogma

00:13:45.700 of the day

00:13:46.400 until really just

00:13:47.120 the last 150 years.

00:13:48.360 And covenant theology,

00:13:49.820 as distinct

00:13:50.780 from dispensationalism,

00:13:52.220 is the idea

00:13:53.100 that God

00:13:54.100 has only ever

00:13:54.880 had one plan.

00:13:56.800 God doesn't need

00:13:57.580 B plans

00:13:58.160 or C plans.

00:13:58.860 He doesn't need

00:13:59.340 contingencies

00:14:00.040 because He's God

00:14:01.440 and He's sovereign

00:14:02.340 over all things

00:14:03.220 and nothing happens

00:14:05.080 ultimately

00:14:06.240 that comes to Him

00:14:07.240 as a surprise

00:14:08.020 or a shock

00:14:08.680 or a wrench

00:14:09.220 in the gears.

00:14:09.880 And so God's plan

00:14:11.440 was always the church.

00:14:12.920 And the church

00:14:13.340 doesn't replace Israel.

00:14:15.280 That's, for the record,

00:14:16.600 you may be familiar

00:14:17.580 with that term,

00:14:18.500 replacement theology.

00:14:20.080 That term was coined

00:14:21.160 as a pejorative.

00:14:22.600 It's meant to intentionally

00:14:23.940 demean covenant theology

00:14:26.060 because covenant theology

00:14:27.360 is not that Israel 0.97

00:14:28.720 is replaced by the church.

00:14:30.680 It's not replacement theology.

00:14:31.940 It would be better described

00:14:33.360 as fulfillment theology.

00:14:35.340 That you have

00:14:36.000 this natural olive root.

00:14:39.280 Romans 11 speaks of this.

00:14:40.860 And it grows

00:14:41.420 into this olive tree.

00:14:43.260 And then the natural

00:14:44.080 olive branches,

00:14:45.420 because of unbelief

00:14:46.500 and rejection of Christ,

00:14:47.800 eventually are severed

00:14:49.140 and cut off.

00:14:50.520 And these, you know,

00:14:51.860 wild olive branches

00:14:53.420 are grafted in

00:14:54.500 and that's all God's mercy.

00:14:56.420 But none of that

00:14:57.600 is done in such a way

00:14:59.380 that the natural branches

00:15:01.460 can't be eventually

00:15:03.580 grafted back in as well.

00:15:05.220 And so the idea

00:15:06.240 of covenant theology

00:15:07.160 as distinct from dispensationalism

00:15:09.460 is that God has not been

00:15:10.820 having, you know,

00:15:11.740 multiple different plans

00:15:12.820 and multiple different errors

00:15:14.100 where he's behaving

00:15:15.080 in different ways

00:15:16.000 or has different objectives

00:15:17.680 and goals,

00:15:18.220 but rather there's

00:15:19.340 a seamless continuity

00:15:20.740 from Genesis 1

00:15:22.420 all the way

00:15:22.980 through the book

00:15:23.400 of Revelation

00:15:23.980 that God has had

00:15:25.360 one plan

00:15:26.260 and what we have

00:15:27.840 is a progressive revelation

00:15:29.580 throughout the Old Testament

00:15:30.900 where God reveals

00:15:32.340 in kind of seed form

00:15:34.080 a little bit more

00:15:35.040 of the big idea.

00:15:36.720 So you get some

00:15:37.980 of the big idea

00:15:38.720 with Adam and Eve

00:15:39.640 and the prophetic word

00:15:41.920 of God

00:15:42.320 that as he's dealing out

00:15:43.300 curses because of sin,

00:15:44.980 there's still a promise

00:15:45.860 that through the woman 0.52

00:15:46.960 there would be a seed 0.95

00:15:47.980 and that he would crush 0.93

00:15:49.740 the serpent's head. 0.80

00:15:50.720 And so you get this glimpse

00:15:51.700 of Jesus, the Messiah,

00:15:54.020 there's light

00:15:55.180 at the end of the tunnel

00:15:56.000 and then that light

00:15:57.220 becomes a little bit

00:15:58.360 more illuminated

00:15:59.240 and a little bit more clarity

00:16:00.520 through Abraham

00:16:01.300 that not only would Abraham

00:16:03.340 have seeds, plural,

00:16:05.120 many descendants

00:16:05.760 as numerous as the stars

00:16:07.100 in the sky

00:16:07.660 or the sand

00:16:08.280 or the seashore,

00:16:09.460 but Paul, the apostle,

00:16:11.280 later talks about

00:16:12.200 Genesis 15, you know,

00:16:13.560 14 and 15

00:16:14.340 about the promise

00:16:15.440 that God gave to Abraham

00:16:16.380 and says,

00:16:17.160 but it's particularly

00:16:18.180 mentioned to Abraham

00:16:19.020 that there would be

00:16:19.600 one singular seed,

00:16:20.920 so not just Israel

00:16:22.340 collectively as all

00:16:23.560 his descendants,

00:16:24.320 but that one of them

00:16:25.280 would be a seed

00:16:26.980 by whom all the nations

00:16:28.440 are blessed,

00:16:29.040 not just one people group

00:16:30.240 or one ethnicity,

00:16:31.640 but all the nations

00:16:32.620 would be blessed

00:16:33.340 through the seed,

00:16:34.400 singular seed,

00:16:35.200 being Christ

00:16:35.940 through Abraham.

00:16:37.140 And then you get

00:16:37.560 a further ratification

00:16:39.020 of this covenant of God,

00:16:40.780 this one covenant

00:16:41.680 that continues to expand

00:16:43.060 in Moses.

00:16:44.280 And then with David,

00:16:45.160 we see that it's not just

00:16:46.340 like Abraham,

00:16:47.340 I'll make you a great people,

00:16:48.400 but with David,

00:16:49.340 it's, no,

00:16:50.240 I'm going to make you

00:16:50.960 a great, a holy nation,

00:16:52.560 and there will be

00:16:53.460 not just the Messiah,

00:16:55.220 a seed who will bless

00:16:55.940 all the nations,

00:16:56.520 but he will also be

00:16:57.780 the seed of David,

00:16:59.200 not only the seed of Abraham,

00:17:00.380 but he'll be the descendant,

00:17:01.920 the son of David,

00:17:02.960 and he will be a king,

00:17:04.180 and he will rule

00:17:04.980 with righteousness

00:17:05.800 and justice.

00:17:07.840 And so it's just

00:17:08.640 this further ratification,

00:17:09.640 and then all of a sudden

00:17:10.620 it leads up to Christ,

00:17:11.920 and what we see in Christ

00:17:13.580 and the inclusion

00:17:14.720 of the Gentiles 1.00

00:17:15.640 is not a replacing

00:17:17.040 of Israel,

00:17:17.720 but rather a fulfillment.

00:17:19.740 Israel,

00:17:20.260 what God was doing

00:17:21.080 in the old covenant,

00:17:22.200 you could almost visualize

00:17:23.840 it like Israel was 0.95

00:17:25.220 the workers,

00:17:26.420 the construction workers,

00:17:27.920 and this old covenant

00:17:29.440 and the animal priestly

00:17:31.220 sacrificial system

00:17:32.280 and the temple

00:17:32.820 and all these things

00:17:33.540 is like the scaffolding,

00:17:35.420 and they're working

00:17:36.300 on this building project.

00:17:37.640 The scaffolding

00:17:38.400 is not the cathedral.

00:17:39.680 The scaffolding

00:17:40.440 surrounds the building project

00:17:42.560 as the cathedral,

00:17:44.280 the ultimate objective,

00:17:45.860 is being constructed.

00:17:47.400 And then upon the construction

00:17:48.600 of that cathedral

00:17:49.440 and the coming of Christ

00:17:50.580 and his finished work

00:17:52.120 here on earth,

00:17:52.720 his life and death

00:17:53.680 and resurrection

00:17:54.340 and ascension,

00:17:55.460 once that cathedral

00:17:56.360 is built,

00:17:57.680 then all the construction workers

00:17:59.240 and the scaffolding,

00:18:00.080 it comes down in 80-70

00:18:01.780 and, you know,

00:18:02.640 in God's determinative plan,

00:18:04.500 the scaffolding comes down

00:18:05.680 and all the construction workers,

00:18:07.420 the natural-born seed

00:18:08.800 of Abraham,

00:18:09.520 the Israel,

00:18:10.480 they're warmly invited in

00:18:11.900 to this building

00:18:13.420 that God used them

00:18:14.340 to build.

00:18:15.640 Unfortunately,

00:18:16.460 many, not all,

00:18:17.460 but many reject this offer,

00:18:19.740 and so then the offer

00:18:20.720 is opened up.

00:18:21.540 It's the parable

00:18:22.260 that Jesus tells

00:18:23.040 of the wedding banquet,

00:18:24.000 that there's all

00:18:24.900 these invited guests,

00:18:26.120 and the king sends out

00:18:27.060 his servants

00:18:27.560 and hands out

00:18:28.580 the invitations

00:18:29.160 to all the people

00:18:30.020 who were originally

00:18:30.640 on the roster,

00:18:31.640 but these people

00:18:32.280 all say no.

00:18:33.760 I've got a field

00:18:34.620 I just purchased

00:18:35.280 and I need to go

00:18:35.900 and check it out,

00:18:36.560 or I just got married,

00:18:37.420 and they all have excuses,

00:18:38.420 they all say no,

00:18:39.100 and so then the king says,

00:18:40.020 well, we're not going

00:18:41.040 to have an empty

00:18:41.820 wedding banquet,

00:18:42.720 and so he said,

00:18:43.340 go out into the highways

00:18:44.340 and the byways

00:18:45.020 and invite all these

00:18:47.160 other people

00:18:47.880 who weren't necessarily

00:18:48.980 the first choice,

00:18:51.460 they weren't originally

00:18:52.500 on the roster,

00:18:53.840 but so that the wedding banquet

00:18:55.220 would be full,

00:18:56.500 and that's indicative

00:18:57.740 of inviting the Gentiles, 0.96

00:19:00.960 and the Gentiles 0.98

00:19:01.680 actually accept this offer.

00:19:04.020 It's also one more example,

00:19:05.540 and I'll turn it back to you,

00:19:06.340 but Jesus says,

00:19:08.080 you know,

00:19:08.380 people quote this,

00:19:09.300 and I think it's misinterpreted

00:19:11.140 most of the time,

00:19:12.320 but they'll say,

00:19:12.800 well, narrow is the way

00:19:13.880 that leads to life,

00:19:14.920 and few ever find it.

00:19:16.180 Jesus does say that,

00:19:17.160 difficult and narrow,

00:19:18.780 whereas the path

00:19:19.660 that leads to destruction,

00:19:20.740 it's broad and easy,

00:19:22.720 but in the same context,

00:19:24.600 in the same chapter,

00:19:25.500 just a little bit later on,

00:19:26.980 Jesus is saying that

00:19:28.180 all Scripture is for us,

00:19:29.600 but not all Scripture

00:19:30.380 is to us.

00:19:31.400 There's an immediate

00:19:32.180 earthly human audience

00:19:33.580 that Jesus is speaking to,

00:19:34.940 and He was speaking

00:19:35.840 to the religious rulers

00:19:36.940 within Israel.

00:19:38.480 He's saying,

00:19:39.120 you know,

00:19:39.360 there's a narrow path

00:19:40.300 and few ever find it.

00:19:41.260 He's talking about Israel 0.96

00:19:42.580 in that particular generation

00:19:44.100 that few of them

00:19:45.000 would find it,

00:19:46.140 the path that would be

00:19:47.000 narrow for them,

00:19:47.620 but just a little bit later,

00:19:48.660 He says,

00:19:49.460 but many will come

00:19:50.440 to Abraham's table

00:19:51.800 and dine with him

00:19:52.720 on that final wedding day

00:19:54.880 that from east and west

00:19:56.940 and all over the earth,

00:19:58.520 what He's saying is that

00:19:59.660 while Israel is rejecting,

00:20:01.340 in the process of immediately

00:20:02.700 rejecting their own Messiah,

00:20:03.860 that the nations

00:20:05.940 outside of Israel

00:20:07.220 would flock to Mount Zion,

00:20:09.440 they would flock to Christ.

00:20:11.720 And so all this,

00:20:13.080 we would say,

00:20:13.440 it's not a change

00:20:14.620 in God's disposition,

00:20:15.940 it's not a change

00:20:16.800 in God's plan,

00:20:17.820 but that this was foretold

00:20:19.240 from the very beginning,

00:20:20.040 this was always the plan,

00:20:21.600 and progressively,

00:20:22.680 we just have further revealings

00:20:25.520 of God's,

00:20:26.760 not His B plan,

00:20:28.020 but His ultimate plan

00:20:29.200 from the very beginning

00:20:30.000 that includes Israel,

00:20:31.460 but was never limited to them.

00:20:33.860 All right,

00:20:34.360 well,

00:20:34.440 I think that gives us

00:20:35.120 a good lay of the land,

00:20:36.300 and I want to go into

00:20:37.560 the history,

00:20:38.700 where this switch came from,

00:20:40.520 why it has transformed

00:20:42.400 the way that many churches,

00:20:44.140 especially evangelical churches,

00:20:46.040 go ahead and conduct themselves,

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00:22:42.540 So as you said,

00:22:45.200 covenant theology

00:22:46.040 or perhaps

00:22:47.180 it was addressed

00:22:47.820 in a different way,

00:22:48.600 it was given

00:22:48.880 a different title,

00:22:49.680 but that general

00:22:50.620 understanding

00:22:51.400 had been the dominant

00:22:52.480 understanding

00:22:53.080 for a long time.

00:22:54.640 And then we

00:22:55.320 now have

00:22:55.960 dispensationalism,

00:22:56.980 which seems

00:22:57.820 to have come

00:22:58.260 to dominate

00:22:59.420 almost all

00:23:00.700 American churches,

00:23:01.640 at least inside

00:23:02.880 the evangelical community.

00:23:04.600 What is the history

00:23:05.720 behind that switch?

00:23:06.980 Where did

00:23:07.360 dispensationalism

00:23:08.400 come from?

00:23:09.120 And how did

00:23:10.240 it become

00:23:10.620 the dominant theology

00:23:11.620 of many people today?

00:23:13.920 Yeah, so

00:23:14.420 Joseph Darby

00:23:16.860 was the individual

00:23:18.340 that coined

00:23:19.320 a lot of

00:23:19.820 dispensational theology.

00:23:21.480 And he was

00:23:22.560 a very charismatic

00:23:23.760 individual,

00:23:24.640 not just speaking

00:23:25.600 of his disposition

00:23:26.700 and personality,

00:23:27.560 but in his theology,

00:23:29.200 you know,

00:23:29.940 he speaks of

00:23:30.720 somewhat similar

00:23:32.100 to like Joseph Smith,

00:23:34.000 like having

00:23:35.000 supernatural moments

00:23:36.200 of, you know,

00:23:37.300 divine revelation,

00:23:38.700 you know,

00:23:38.940 that typically

00:23:40.480 whenever you

00:23:41.320 break the mold,

00:23:42.220 whenever there's

00:23:42.840 a historic tradition

00:23:43.940 and then all of a sudden,

00:23:45.840 you know,

00:23:46.300 you introduce

00:23:48.500 something novel,

00:23:50.120 it's usually

00:23:50.920 the, you know,

00:23:53.360 the argument

00:23:53.880 for why

00:23:54.780 your novel idea

00:23:56.620 should be accepted

00:23:57.660 is because

00:23:59.160 of some kind

00:24:00.320 of divine revelation,

00:24:02.480 you know,

00:24:02.640 so whether you're

00:24:03.240 Joseph Smith

00:24:03.860 or whether you're

00:24:05.020 Darby,

00:24:05.820 you know,

00:24:06.060 it's this idea

00:24:07.020 that God spoke

00:24:08.920 to me uniquely.

00:24:10.440 And so he coined

00:24:12.080 a lot of the

00:24:12.600 dispensational theology

00:24:14.520 as a framework,

00:24:15.340 but then another

00:24:16.660 gentleman named

00:24:17.460 Schofield,

00:24:19.080 he ended up doing

00:24:20.280 some, you know,

00:24:20.960 his kind of most

00:24:21.820 significant work

00:24:22.880 was writing

00:24:24.760 a study Bible.

00:24:26.040 And that was

00:24:27.080 somewhat unique

00:24:28.040 for the time.

00:24:29.060 It's not as though

00:24:29.620 that concept

00:24:30.400 had never existed,

00:24:32.480 you know,

00:24:32.680 a Bible that

00:24:33.520 also included

00:24:34.220 commentary

00:24:34.940 in addition

00:24:36.200 to, you know,

00:24:36.840 the God-breathed text.

00:24:38.200 But Schofield,

00:24:39.200 his commentary,

00:24:41.040 his study Bible

00:24:41.880 was staunchly

00:24:44.340 dispensational.

00:24:46.120 And so any verse,

00:24:47.460 you know,

00:24:47.800 that historically

00:24:48.780 would have been

00:24:49.380 interpreted

00:24:49.860 in a different way,

00:24:51.820 he would,

00:24:52.860 you know,

00:24:53.200 interpret all of them,

00:24:54.260 all of his commentary

00:24:55.040 of every verse

00:24:55.980 in the Bible

00:24:56.440 would be through

00:24:57.180 a dispensational

00:24:58.480 frame of thought.

00:24:59.640 And that project

00:25:00.460 was funded,

00:25:02.080 you know,

00:25:02.340 without trying

00:25:02.820 to be unhinged here,

00:25:03.940 but just,

00:25:04.400 you know,

00:25:04.620 sticking to the history,

00:25:06.120 it was funded

00:25:06.920 by Zionist Jews.

00:25:08.540 And because

00:25:09.420 if you could

00:25:11.140 fund a project

00:25:12.200 of interpreting

00:25:13.600 the Bible

00:25:14.360 for Protestants

00:25:15.660 in one of the most

00:25:16.760 powerful nations

00:25:17.680 in the world,

00:25:19.260 and knowing

00:25:21.160 that pretty much

00:25:22.180 every American,

00:25:23.160 and this is what happened,

00:25:23.960 every single American

00:25:24.800 had a Schofield Bible

00:25:25.740 on their shelf,

00:25:26.420 if not two or three of them.

00:25:28.240 And so that was,

00:25:29.620 it just became,

00:25:30.900 it just became the default.

00:25:32.520 It just became assumed

00:25:33.800 that, of course,

00:25:35.200 this is what

00:25:35.960 the Bible teaches.

00:25:37.960 Of course,

00:25:38.500 the Bible teaches

00:25:39.320 future land promises

00:25:41.280 for an ethnic state

00:25:43.760 of Israel.

00:25:44.880 Of course,

00:25:45.300 the Bible teaches

00:25:46.060 a literal construction

00:25:47.660 of a third temple.

00:25:49.520 Of course,

00:25:50.360 the Bible teaches

00:25:51.200 a literal thousand-year reign

00:25:52.760 of Jesus Christ

00:25:53.740 physically on earth

00:25:55.440 in the temple

00:25:56.940 once it's been reconstructed

00:25:58.420 in Israel,

00:25:59.200 in Jerusalem,

00:25:59.660 and so that just became

00:26:01.920 the common knowledge.

00:26:04.080 But it was not

00:26:05.080 the common knowledge

00:26:05.760 previously,

00:26:06.520 and so without being

00:26:08.120 too speculative

00:26:09.000 or imputing

00:26:11.860 nefarious motives,

00:26:12.720 I think that it's still

00:26:13.860 fair to say

00:26:14.580 that there was

00:26:16.360 an incentive,

00:26:17.500 that it wasn't just,

00:26:18.720 you know,

00:26:19.040 I'm doing the work

00:26:19.900 of a theologian

00:26:20.580 in the vacuum,

00:26:21.400 objectively,

00:26:22.020 without any prior bias.

00:26:24.120 No,

00:26:24.360 it was a project

00:26:26.480 funded by Zionist Jews 0.76

00:26:28.800 who wanted a nation state,

00:26:32.440 you know,

00:26:32.800 and to be fair,

00:26:34.040 who could blame them?

00:26:34.760 But, you know,

00:26:35.140 they wanted a nation state

00:26:36.320 because the difference

00:26:38.160 between peoples

00:26:38.860 and nations

00:26:39.680 is that nations

00:26:40.520 are allowed to have

00:26:41.280 a military.

00:26:42.480 There's certain

00:26:43.180 defensive mechanisms

00:26:44.880 that are afforded

00:26:45.680 to nations

00:26:46.140 that just a random

00:26:47.520 people group

00:26:48.120 without, you know,

00:26:49.060 a nation don't have.

00:26:50.460 And so this project

00:26:51.880 of the Schofield Study Bible

00:26:53.320 was funded

00:26:54.220 by Zionist Jews

00:26:55.240 and others,

00:26:55.900 not only them,

00:26:57.200 and it became

00:26:57.760 incredibly popular

00:26:58.860 and it filled

00:26:59.940 every home in America

00:27:01.060 and also many

00:27:02.660 European countries

00:27:03.760 as well.

00:27:04.320 And so the West

00:27:05.480 being a dominant

00:27:06.900 superpower

00:27:08.100 because,

00:27:09.080 I believe,

00:27:09.600 largely because

00:27:10.160 of the fruit

00:27:10.600 of Christendom,

00:27:12.020 their obedience

00:27:12.840 to Christ

00:27:13.460 and receiving

00:27:14.120 a blessing

00:27:15.040 as they implemented

00:27:17.180 the Christian worldview

00:27:18.200 to all of life.

00:27:19.240 God blessed that richly

00:27:20.380 in Western nations

00:27:21.420 and so they attained

00:27:22.700 massive global power

00:27:24.060 and then at kind of

00:27:25.900 the height

00:27:26.460 of Christendom,

00:27:27.800 you have the introduction

00:27:28.640 of dispensationalism

00:27:30.100 and it's in every Bible

00:27:31.940 on every shelf

00:27:32.980 and lo and behold,

00:27:36.120 wouldn't you know it,

00:27:36.720 what does it say?

00:27:37.640 It says that the most

00:27:38.480 powerful nations

00:27:39.300 in the world

00:27:39.920 have a moral obligation

00:27:41.640 under God

00:27:42.580 to defend

00:27:44.580 and support

00:27:45.700 and bless

00:27:46.520 Israel.

00:27:47.440 and if they don't,

00:27:49.980 they won't be blessed

00:27:50.960 by God

00:27:51.480 and so it worked out

00:27:52.440 really well

00:27:53.260 for Israel.

00:27:55.140 Yeah,

00:27:55.300 it's somewhat ironic

00:27:56.640 that I guess

00:27:57.220 the most faithful,

00:27:58.180 those most passionate

00:27:59.180 in studying the word

00:28:00.220 and wanting to have

00:28:01.380 a Bible

00:28:01.780 that would give them

00:28:02.800 additional commentary

00:28:03.700 and understand

00:28:04.880 the intricacies

00:28:05.700 would then be led

00:28:06.920 into this

00:28:07.440 far different

00:28:08.620 understanding

00:28:09.420 of theology

00:28:10.560 without really

00:28:11.620 grasping

00:28:12.740 that there had been

00:28:13.300 any kind of transition.

00:28:14.620 They thought

00:28:15.120 that they were

00:28:15.540 just learning

00:28:16.700 the intricacies

00:28:18.040 of the Bible

00:28:18.580 through the additional

00:28:19.340 commentary.

00:28:20.260 Now they're saying

00:28:20.740 that there's

00:28:21.180 a theological

00:28:22.020 revolution happening

00:28:23.180 under their feet

00:28:24.080 that might be

00:28:24.700 pointing them

00:28:25.140 in a particular

00:28:25.660 direction.

00:28:26.920 Right,

00:28:27.680 right.

00:28:28.100 Yeah,

00:28:28.240 they didn't know

00:28:29.100 that it was novel.

00:28:29.860 They thought

00:28:30.180 this is what

00:28:31.940 Christians have 0.99

00:28:32.640 always believed.

00:28:34.360 And like you said,

00:28:35.380 this has had

00:28:35.880 some pretty big

00:28:37.000 impacts

00:28:37.620 then on

00:28:38.660 the geopolitical

00:28:39.740 reality

00:28:40.420 of the situation.

00:28:41.920 Many in British 0.96

00:28:43.160 Mandate Palestine 0.98

00:28:44.300 favored the idea

00:28:46.400 of Jewish settlement

00:28:47.480 because they believed

00:28:48.840 they were fulfilling

00:28:49.660 the word of God.

00:28:50.860 They were actively

00:28:52.060 trying to bring

00:28:53.480 about that

00:28:54.520 which they thought

00:28:55.140 was in God's plan

00:28:56.260 because of their

00:28:56.940 dispensational

00:28:57.860 understanding.

00:28:58.880 So even at the

00:28:59.580 founding of the

00:29:00.860 current nation state,

00:29:02.580 the political entity

00:29:03.420 of Israel,

00:29:05.020 is this underlying

00:29:06.900 understanding by many

00:29:08.400 of the non-Jewish 0.99

00:29:10.080 actors who

00:29:10.680 enabled it

00:29:11.220 that they were

00:29:12.260 in some way

00:29:13.100 enacting the work

00:29:14.420 of God

00:29:15.080 by erecting

00:29:16.260 this state

00:29:17.380 for the Jewish

00:29:18.060 people.

00:29:19.100 Right,

00:29:19.200 back to the

00:29:19.660 illustration of

00:29:20.360 the stepchild

00:29:21.280 and the natural

00:29:21.840 born child

00:29:22.420 who took his

00:29:22.920 ball and went

00:29:23.580 home.

00:29:24.760 If dad

00:29:26.020 is sitting at

00:29:27.080 the head of

00:29:27.420 the table

00:29:27.840 and you're

00:29:28.840 the stepchild

00:29:29.520 and you're

00:29:30.120 on the far end

00:29:30.860 and he allows

00:29:32.720 you to be there

00:29:33.360 and he has

00:29:33.780 some affection

00:29:34.380 and love

00:29:34.660 towards you

00:29:35.020 but ultimately

00:29:35.860 he's generally

00:29:37.360 disinterested

00:29:38.280 but he's

00:29:39.040 really interested

00:29:39.780 in his rebellious

00:29:40.940 biological son

00:29:41.940 who's standing

00:29:42.420 in the corner

00:29:42.960 pouting

00:29:43.780 and you know

00:29:45.460 that that's

00:29:46.000 what he cares

00:29:46.780 most deeply

00:29:47.380 about

00:29:47.960 but you're

00:29:48.820 desperate for

00:29:49.400 dad's affection

00:29:50.040 and his love

00:29:50.740 and you can't

00:29:51.980 get it on your

00:29:52.500 own.

00:29:53.420 Well then

00:29:54.000 you start to

00:29:55.440 think

00:29:55.620 maybe dad

00:29:57.160 would be

00:29:57.380 really pleased

00:29:57.920 with me

00:29:58.240 and proud

00:29:58.560 of me

00:29:58.840 if I

00:30:00.360 could

00:30:01.140 be a

00:30:02.200 catalyst

00:30:02.520 in getting

00:30:03.180 Johnny

00:30:04.000 his natural

00:30:04.740 born heir

00:30:05.560 to stop

00:30:07.380 pouting

00:30:07.680 and come

00:30:08.360 home

00:30:08.680 and so

00:30:10.260 that's

00:30:10.760 you know

00:30:11.080 I mean

00:30:11.520 it's really

00:30:11.860 sad

00:30:12.240 when you

00:30:12.620 think

00:30:12.800 about

00:30:13.160 a lot

00:30:14.800 of

00:30:15.060 dispensational

00:30:16.380 thinking

00:30:16.800 Gentile

00:30:17.240 Christians

00:30:17.480 they really

00:30:18.240 do

00:30:18.620 you know

00:30:19.400 I'm using

00:30:19.760 this imagery

00:30:20.320 I'm not

00:30:20.700 trying to be

00:30:21.140 hyperbolic

00:30:21.760 but I

00:30:22.240 really do

00:30:22.880 think

00:30:23.140 that it

00:30:23.480 that it

00:30:24.400 pinpoints

00:30:24.840 something

00:30:25.200 true

00:30:25.660 that a lot

00:30:26.940 of Western

00:30:27.640 Christians

00:30:28.320 they really

00:30:29.140 do think

00:30:30.020 that

00:30:30.400 that they're

00:30:31.900 second-rate

00:30:32.520 they really

00:30:33.400 do

00:30:33.680 and it's

00:30:34.380 so sad

00:30:34.780 because

00:30:35.120 so many

00:30:36.320 in the

00:30:36.740 West

00:30:37.100 so many

00:30:37.980 blue-collar

00:30:38.980 Christians

00:30:39.380 who are

00:30:39.860 dispensational

00:30:40.580 by default

00:30:41.360 and sending

00:30:42.700 old ladies 0.87

00:30:43.640 boomers

00:30:44.500 God bless

00:30:45.460 them

00:30:45.640 we'll miss

00:30:46.260 them when

00:30:46.480 they're gone

00:30:46.940 but old

00:30:49.100 ladies on 0.99

00:30:49.580 fixed income

00:30:50.240 sending checks

00:30:50.960 to Israel

00:30:51.620 doing all

00:30:54.000 of it

00:30:54.220 and believing

00:30:55.040 in their

00:30:55.320 heart of

00:30:55.640 hearts

00:30:55.900 they've been

00:30:56.220 faithful to

00:30:56.720 the church

00:30:57.060 their whole

00:30:57.420 life

00:30:57.660 they love

00:30:58.040 Jesus

00:30:58.520 with every

00:30:59.060 bone in

00:30:59.580 their body

00:31:00.040 and they

00:31:01.200 stand up

00:31:01.640 for traditional

00:31:02.160 marriage

00:31:02.600 and they

00:31:02.880 stand up

00:31:03.420 against abortion

00:31:04.380 and all

00:31:04.680 these things

00:31:05.140 and yet

00:31:05.860 if you

00:31:06.820 ask them

00:31:07.260 just point

00:31:07.780 blank

00:31:08.060 ask them

00:31:08.600 is God

00:31:11.240 more excited

00:31:12.060 about you

00:31:13.060 and your

00:31:14.120 country

00:31:14.560 and the

00:31:15.740 Christians

00:31:16.080 here

00:31:16.460 or Israel

00:31:17.640 and they'll

00:31:18.640 immediately

00:31:18.980 say Israel 0.68

00:31:19.640 they have

00:31:20.780 immediately

00:31:21.260 succumbed

00:31:22.680 by default

00:31:23.400 to a

00:31:24.820 stepchild

00:31:25.480 mentality

00:31:26.440 and it's

00:31:26.920 so sad

00:31:27.620 because

00:31:27.960 you have

00:31:28.880 these faithful

00:31:29.780 Christians

00:31:30.220 who love

00:31:30.780 God

00:31:31.080 with all

00:31:31.420 their

00:31:31.560 hearts

00:31:31.940 and think

00:31:33.620 that God

00:31:34.080 loves them

00:31:34.760 in part

00:31:35.560 but he

00:31:36.300 really likes

00:31:37.240 Israel

00:31:38.120 and so

00:31:38.500 all that

00:31:39.060 being said

00:31:39.580 yeah

00:31:40.860 Israel

00:31:41.440 the modern

00:31:42.720 nation state

00:31:43.240 of Israel

00:31:43.720 in the 1940s

00:31:44.780 that doesn't

00:31:45.760 happen

00:31:46.140 apart from

00:31:47.580 the West

00:31:48.160 and our

00:31:49.020 involvement

00:31:49.620 it just

00:31:50.340 doesn't

00:31:50.840 and so

00:31:51.800 it was

00:31:53.620 very

00:31:54.040 theology

00:31:55.140 ideas have

00:31:56.380 consequences

00:31:56.940 theology

00:31:57.700 has

00:31:58.320 consequences

00:31:58.940 real

00:31:59.540 consequences

00:32:00.100 not just

00:32:00.720 so that

00:32:01.500 two

00:32:01.980 theologians

00:32:02.540 can debate

00:32:03.300 the number

00:32:03.920 of angels

00:32:04.360 that can

00:32:04.660 fit on

00:32:05.000 the head

00:32:05.460 of a pen

00:32:05.880 but

00:32:06.200 no

00:32:07.240 geopolitical

00:32:08.620 consequences

00:32:09.380 still to this

00:32:10.100 day

00:32:10.360 I mean

00:32:10.660 Speaker

00:32:10.960 Mike Johnson

00:32:11.600 is a

00:32:12.160 Zionist 1.00

00:32:12.680 he is a

00:32:13.280 dispensationalist

00:32:15.140 by default

00:32:15.980 he probably

00:32:16.600 has

00:32:17.040 he's probably

00:32:17.920 well meaning

00:32:18.420 in some

00:32:18.820 regard

00:32:19.160 but

00:32:19.500 you know

00:32:20.780 the idea

00:32:21.580 that

00:32:21.960 you know

00:32:23.260 like Thomas

00:32:23.700 Massey

00:32:24.040 said

00:32:24.280 that

00:32:24.500 other than

00:32:25.280 him

00:32:25.580 every single

00:32:26.480 Republican

00:32:27.100 has an

00:32:28.080 APAC

00:32:28.560 handler

00:32:29.020 right

00:32:29.440 you're going

00:32:29.760 to go

00:32:30.040 in

00:32:30.340 and you're

00:32:30.740 going to

00:32:31.400 deliberate

00:32:32.120 and vote

00:32:33.080 on some

00:32:33.500 kind of

00:32:33.840 bill

00:32:34.100 but before

00:32:35.080 you do

00:32:35.440 you're going

00:32:35.780 to get

00:32:35.960 a call

00:32:36.360 or you're

00:32:36.800 going to

00:32:37.060 you know

00:32:37.560 your APAC

00:32:38.440 handler is

00:32:38.880 going to

00:32:39.020 be in

00:32:39.280 town

00:32:39.500 you're

00:32:39.760 going to

00:32:39.880 go to

00:32:40.100 lunch

00:32:40.420 you know

00:32:40.760 and you're

00:32:41.040 going to

00:32:41.200 hear

00:32:41.420 like

00:32:42.060 for any

00:32:43.140 foreign

00:32:43.780 nation

00:32:44.340 foreign

00:32:44.780 entity

00:32:45.260 to have

00:32:45.800 that much

00:32:46.640 influence

00:32:47.340 on

00:32:48.320 arguably

00:32:49.000 one of

00:32:49.280 the most

00:32:49.520 powerful

00:32:49.840 nations

00:32:50.180 in the

00:32:50.440 world

00:32:50.780 is

00:32:52.380 bizarre

00:32:53.180 it's

00:32:54.840 absolutely

00:32:55.380 bizarre

00:32:55.800 that doesn't

00:32:56.520 and my

00:32:56.800 point is

00:32:57.180 that does

00:32:58.240 not happen

00:32:59.120 apart from

00:33:00.300 a religious

00:33:01.040 divine

00:33:01.820 theological

00:33:02.700 commitment

00:33:04.440 that's how

00:33:05.740 that happened

00:33:06.460 it doesn't

00:33:06.940 happen apart

00:33:07.440 from theology

00:33:08.020 that would

00:33:08.800 never happen

00:33:09.380 with Uganda

00:33:10.680 you know

00:33:11.320 or Russia

00:33:12.200 or even

00:33:12.860 Ukraine

00:33:13.380 I know

00:33:13.920 that you

00:33:14.220 know

00:33:14.340 well

00:33:14.760 you know

00:33:15.140 Israel

00:33:15.500 but Ukraine

00:33:16.240 isn't Israel 0.96

00:33:17.080 and they've

00:33:17.500 had the

00:33:17.780 same

00:33:17.980 stranglehold

00:33:18.580 no

00:33:19.240 not the

00:33:20.640 same

00:33:20.920 you know

00:33:22.460 not

00:33:22.860 not the

00:33:23.240 same

00:33:23.460 it's

00:33:23.980 Israel

00:33:25.000 stands

00:33:25.500 alone

00:33:25.880 in terms

00:33:26.420 of our

00:33:26.800 our

00:33:27.200 greatest

00:33:27.500 ally

00:33:28.000 and that's

00:33:28.440 not to

00:33:28.720 say that

00:33:29.040 you should

00:33:29.540 be

00:33:30.380 if you

00:33:32.580 have to

00:33:32.860 edit this

00:33:33.220 out

00:33:33.400 afterwards

00:33:33.860 feel free

00:33:34.400 to

00:33:34.580 you know

00:33:34.820 but

00:33:34.980 I think

00:33:36.640 of Treebeard

00:33:37.320 you know

00:33:37.860 in the

00:33:38.220 two towers

00:33:38.780 you know

00:33:39.120 the Lord

00:33:39.400 of the

00:33:39.580 Rings

00:33:39.800 and he's

00:33:40.220 like

00:33:40.420 I am

00:33:40.980 on no

00:33:41.280 one's

00:33:41.580 side

00:33:41.840 because

00:33:42.100 no one

00:33:42.520 is on

00:33:42.780 my

00:33:42.980 side

00:33:43.220 so

00:33:43.400 I am

00:33:44.040 not a

00:33:44.340 Zionist 1.00

00:33:44.840 but that

00:33:45.680 doesn't

00:33:45.940 mean

00:33:46.100 that I'm

00:33:46.440 pro

00:33:46.700 sodomites

00:33:47.260 for

00:33:47.400 Palestine

00:33:47.800 either

00:33:48.480 you don't

00:33:50.200 believe it

00:33:50.880 or not

00:33:51.240 you know

00:33:51.580 this is

00:33:51.960 you know

00:33:52.560 it's not

00:33:53.080 common

00:33:53.340 knowledge

00:33:53.720 secret

00:33:54.460 secret

00:33:54.980 truth

00:33:55.240 here

00:33:55.400 but

00:33:55.600 you

00:33:56.420 don't

00:33:56.580 have

00:33:56.740 to

00:33:56.860 take

00:33:57.020 a

00:33:57.140 side

00:33:57.280 you

00:33:57.500 can

00:33:57.640 just

00:33:57.840 say

00:33:58.060 hey

00:33:58.260 I love

00:33:58.680 America

00:33:59.100 and

00:33:59.640 America

00:34:00.020 should

00:34:00.280 be

00:34:00.400 for

00:34:00.600 America

00:34:00.940 yeah

00:34:02.000 that's

00:34:02.480 very

00:34:02.800 strange

00:34:03.260 that

00:34:03.480 that's

00:34:03.980 a

00:34:04.320 anyway

00:34:04.880 a

00:34:05.160 radical

00:34:05.460 thing

00:34:05.860 like

00:34:06.140 you

00:34:06.460 would

00:34:06.600 even

00:34:06.840 hint

00:34:07.520 that

00:34:07.700 I

00:34:07.800 would

00:34:07.920 need

00:34:08.100 to

00:34:08.260 edit

00:34:08.480 that

00:34:08.660 out

00:34:08.840 for

00:34:08.980 any

00:34:15.680 would

00:34:15.860 it

00:34:16.000 need

00:34:16.360 to

00:34:16.500 be

00:34:16.620 the

00:34:16.820 case

00:34:17.300 that

00:34:17.580 America

00:34:18.000 has

00:34:18.620 to

00:34:19.080 swear

00:34:19.560 itself

00:34:20.020 to

00:34:20.300 any

00:34:20.700 foreign

00:34:21.120 nation

00:34:21.580 and

00:34:22.060 I

00:34:22.140 think

00:34:22.300 more

00:34:22.660 and

00:34:22.840 more

00:34:23.100 people

00:34:23.660 are

00:34:23.820 starting

00:34:24.080 to

00:34:24.240 understand

00:34:24.640 that

00:34:25.000 especially

00:34:25.400 on the

00:34:25.740 conservative

00:34:26.220 side

00:34:26.740 you know

00:34:27.260 I grew up

00:34:27.800 as a talk

00:34:28.260 radio

00:34:28.560 conservative

00:34:29.160 I'm a

00:34:29.660 child

00:34:30.000 of

00:34:30.300 you know

00:34:31.260 kind

00:34:31.940 of the

00:34:32.320 90s

00:34:33.340 era

00:34:33.680 patriotism

00:34:34.660 and Rush

00:34:35.100 Limbaugh

00:34:35.580 and all

00:34:35.940 of these

00:34:36.300 things

00:34:36.640 and I

00:34:37.720 totally

00:34:38.260 understand

00:34:39.840 you know

00:34:40.240 I'm proud

00:34:40.600 of my

00:34:40.880 country

00:34:41.200 I love

00:34:41.660 it

00:34:41.840 and I

00:34:42.500 grew up

00:34:43.340 on

00:34:43.660 military

00:34:44.200 bases

00:34:44.600 I have

00:34:45.040 incredible

00:34:45.960 degree of

00:34:47.880 gratitude

00:34:48.340 for those

00:34:48.940 that put

00:34:49.260 themselves

00:34:49.640 in harm's

00:34:50.680 way

00:34:50.820 and defend

00:34:51.560 the nation

00:34:52.060 but I

00:34:52.420 think there's

00:34:52.800 a growing

00:34:53.460 understanding

00:34:54.020 of myself

00:34:55.040 and many

00:34:55.420 like me

00:34:55.880 that the

00:34:56.440 empire

00:34:56.820 is actually

00:34:57.260 not

00:34:57.800 in

00:34:58.700 America's

00:34:59.320 favor

00:34:59.620 that constant

00:35:00.540 foreign

00:35:00.840 adventurism

00:35:02.260 is not

00:35:02.800 something we

00:35:03.200 want to be

00:35:03.520 involved in

00:35:04.160 and we even

00:35:04.860 saw this

00:35:05.260 when it

00:35:05.480 came to

00:35:05.780 Ukraine

00:35:06.200 yeah there

00:35:06.740 was a lot

00:35:07.300 of Fox

00:35:07.780 News guys

00:35:08.340 doing the

00:35:08.720 rah-rah 0.90

00:35:09.060 thing for

00:35:09.560 a little

00:35:09.860 bit

00:35:10.120 but actually

00:35:11.100 people soured

00:35:11.780 on that

00:35:12.120 war on the

00:35:12.700 right pretty

00:35:13.160 quickly

00:35:13.600 and they

00:35:14.800 started to

00:35:15.380 realize I

00:35:16.000 think especially

00:35:16.480 with the way

00:35:17.020 that the

00:35:17.340 United States

00:35:17.720 government

00:35:18.080 tends to

00:35:18.900 treat the

00:35:19.300 boys from

00:35:19.720 Appalachia

00:35:20.320 and Texas

00:35:20.780 that maybe

00:35:22.000 we don't

00:35:22.480 need to

00:35:22.880 send our

00:35:23.720 best and

00:35:24.100 brightest to 1.00

00:35:24.640 go die 0.98

00:35:24.960 for these 0.99

00:35:25.340 things

00:35:25.600 maybe actually

00:35:26.280 you don't

00:35:26.940 need to

00:35:27.400 thin out

00:35:28.000 red America 0.75

00:35:28.860 and send

00:35:29.840 their blood

00:35:30.580 and treasure

00:35:30.980 over to

00:35:31.780 random foreign

00:35:32.480 countries to

00:35:33.220 enrich

00:35:33.600 oligarchs 1.00

00:35:34.240 that's not

00:35:35.160 actually in

00:35:35.780 America's

00:35:36.260 interest

00:35:36.560 and so we

00:35:37.560 saw a lot

00:35:38.060 of people

00:35:38.340 push back

00:35:38.880 against the

00:35:39.960 Ukraine war

00:35:40.640 but then we

00:35:41.600 saw what

00:35:41.880 happened in

00:35:42.960 October 7th in

00:35:43.720 Israel and

00:35:44.360 all of a sudden

00:35:44.760 it's like those

00:35:45.500 lessons just

00:35:46.040 disappeared

00:35:46.480 these people who

00:35:47.560 had completely

00:35:48.260 grasped that

00:35:49.200 actually the

00:35:50.160 global war on

00:35:51.120 terror whatever

00:35:51.900 you know

00:35:52.600 necessary response

00:35:54.220 might have been

00:35:54.680 involved after

00:35:55.520 9-11 went well

00:35:56.940 beyond that and

00:35:57.780 simply became a

00:35:58.560 blank check for

00:35:59.420 the United States

00:36:00.060 government and

00:36:00.820 more nefarious

00:36:01.920 actors to go

00:36:03.020 ahead and benefit

00:36:03.900 their friends and

00:36:04.900 you know waste

00:36:05.520 people's lives and

00:36:06.620 destroy all kinds

00:36:07.460 of stuff people

00:36:08.860 who learned that

00:36:09.540 lesson and

00:36:10.560 carried it into

00:36:11.800 something like

00:36:12.320 the Ukrainian

00:36:12.760 lore when it

00:36:13.880 goes to Israel

00:36:14.780 all of a sudden

00:36:15.320 you know we

00:36:16.220 have to go to

00:36:16.760 war we have to

00:36:17.480 send them so

00:36:18.020 much money even

00:36:18.580 though this is a

00:36:19.160 super rich country

00:36:19.940 with a very good

00:36:21.760 military who's

00:36:22.980 fighting a bunch

00:36:23.480 of guys with

00:36:24.000 AK-47s at best 1.00

00:36:25.540 you know for some

00:36:27.000 reason they they

00:36:27.760 just have to have

00:36:28.640 our money it's a

00:36:29.720 very like you said

00:36:30.500 it has to be

00:36:31.340 theological it's the

00:36:32.160 only thing that

00:36:33.000 explains at least

00:36:34.580 for the right why

00:36:35.900 they would be so

00:36:36.600 quick to go ahead

00:36:37.720 and flip that switch

00:36:38.500 even though they

00:36:39.260 seem to have

00:36:39.700 learned the lesson

00:36:40.220 when it comes to

00:36:40.780 any other country

00:36:41.500 right absolutely

00:36:43.160 yeah I mean yeah

00:36:44.940 it would have to

00:36:45.740 you know you just

00:36:46.820 learned the lesson

00:36:47.340 with Ukraine and

00:36:48.440 so if any other

00:36:50.700 nation if it had

00:36:51.440 been any other

00:36:52.180 nation with October

00:36:53.260 7th other than

00:36:54.140 Israel I think the 0.74

00:36:55.520 lesson would have

00:36:56.260 would have been

00:36:57.260 applied I think we

00:36:58.220 would have held to

00:36:58.780 it we wouldn't have

00:36:59.400 just immediately

00:37:00.020 you know discarded

00:37:01.640 you know all the

00:37:02.680 truths that we had

00:37:03.240 just recently learned

00:37:04.000 I think if it had

00:37:05.140 been any other

00:37:05.720 nation on the

00:37:06.400 planet we would

00:37:07.240 have said I'm not

00:37:08.060 going to do that

00:37:08.540 again you know

00:37:09.020 fool me fool me

00:37:10.060 once you know 0.93

00:37:10.720 shame on you 0.77

00:37:11.300 you know fool me 0.96

00:37:12.140 two times three

00:37:12.680 times a lady you

00:37:13.540 know George Bush

00:37:14.060 style and so we

00:37:15.020 wouldn't have done

00:37:15.480 it but Israel you 0.94

00:37:16.500 know it was like

00:37:17.840 well wait a second

00:37:18.560 this is you know

00:37:19.380 this is a separate

00:37:20.500 category this is

00:37:21.440 altogether you know

00:37:22.520 different and and

00:37:24.420 and you don't have

00:37:25.080 that mindset of you

00:37:27.620 know when something

00:37:29.000 when something that's

00:37:31.120 so obviously on its

00:37:32.320 face falls within the

00:37:33.960 general principle and

00:37:36.080 yet you cannot help

00:37:37.920 but somehow place it

00:37:41.600 in a distinct

00:37:42.900 category it's like

00:37:44.280 you know it fits

00:37:45.440 in but but you

00:37:46.700 won't it's usually

00:37:48.480 for theological

00:37:49.680 reasons it's usually

00:37:50.840 some kind of deep

00:37:51.980 conviction it's not

00:37:53.440 logic it's not

00:37:54.600 reason it's it's

00:37:57.120 religious it's it's

00:37:58.620 it's some kind of

00:37:59.660 divine commitment

00:38:00.980 now I don't know

00:38:02.340 exactly where you

00:38:02.880 want to go in the

00:38:03.340 episode I'll give it

00:38:04.320 to you but I

00:38:05.720 could if you're

00:38:06.260 interested tell you

00:38:07.080 you know my view on

00:38:08.960 Israel that I think 0.74

00:38:10.240 you know beyond me

00:38:11.560 because that's kind

00:38:12.300 of irrelevant I think

00:38:13.460 it's a growing view I

00:38:14.380 and I think it will

00:38:15.180 become my prediction

00:38:16.760 is that in the next

00:38:17.800 30 to 50 years it

00:38:18.860 will become the

00:38:19.340 dominant view that

00:38:21.100 that many Christians 0.66

00:38:22.060 hold yeah that was

00:38:23.540 going to be where I

00:38:24.080 was going to go next

00:38:24.920 I think a lot of

00:38:26.000 people if you're not

00:38:27.980 familiar with the

00:38:28.720 founding of Israel if

00:38:29.920 you haven't looked

00:38:30.800 beyond kind of the and

00:38:32.980 then all the Arab 0.98

00:38:33.660 countries attack them

00:38:34.720 narrative that we

00:38:35.640 usually get for for

00:38:36.940 again kind of talk

00:38:38.080 radio about how

00:38:38.720 Israel came about you 1.00

00:38:40.240 know may not be

00:38:40.880 familiar why there's

00:38:41.960 the level of hostility

00:38:43.200 there is in that area

00:38:44.280 and ultimately when a

00:38:46.980 nation has existed for

00:38:48.560 the amount of time

00:38:49.140 that it has it earns

00:38:50.620 the right to defend

00:38:51.280 itself ultimately a

00:38:52.580 state is those that

00:38:54.020 are able to expel

00:38:54.860 others from the state

00:38:56.580 with violence that's

00:38:57.380 what actually defines a

00:38:58.340 state people can be

00:38:59.400 angry about that they

00:39:00.380 can you know you can

00:39:01.200 whine and cringe about

00:39:02.140 that but just in

00:39:03.540 pure Machiavellian

00:39:04.380 terms that that is

00:39:05.360 what a state actually

00:39:06.500 is it's the the

00:39:07.400 people who can secure

00:39:08.180 a monopoly monopoly on

00:39:09.760 violence inside a

00:39:11.000 given territory and in

00:39:12.200 that sense Israel is a 0.95

00:39:13.840 legitimate state and

00:39:16.020 therefore it has the

00:39:17.060 right to defend itself

00:39:17.960 and its people

00:39:18.640 especially if there's a

00:39:19.820 terrorist attack on

00:39:20.540 you totally understand

00:39:21.500 you can argue about

00:39:22.380 the disproportionate

00:39:23.360 nature of the

00:39:24.440 response you can get

00:39:25.440 into that I'm not

00:39:26.020 here to quibble about

00:39:26.900 that because again like

00:39:27.700 you said American and

00:39:29.380 I'm not really

00:39:30.440 interested in getting

00:39:31.060 myself involved in a

00:39:32.180 blood feud that is

00:39:33.100 never going to get

00:39:33.700 settled there's never

00:39:36.400 going to be some

00:39:36.840 diplomatic accord that

00:39:38.140 figures this problem

00:39:39.000 out for people if

00:39:39.900 you're not familiar

00:39:40.540 with the history you

00:39:41.640 familiarize yourself with

00:39:42.620 history and you will

00:39:43.280 learn very quickly that

00:39:44.220 you're not going to get

00:39:44.820 yourself a diplomatic

00:39:45.520 solution no matter how

00:39:46.940 many times you sit down

00:39:47.900 to a table but for

00:39:49.940 those who think that you

00:39:51.900 know in the book of

00:39:53.280 revelations it's talking

00:39:54.560 about Benjamin Netanyahu

00:39:56.300 right and like the state

00:39:57.620 that he runs right like

00:39:58.860 that I've seen Israel

00:40:00.340 it's in the Bible it's

00:40:01.560 in Revelation what is

00:40:03.780 the current relationship

00:40:06.060 with the with the

00:40:07.880 secular nation state of

00:40:08.860 Israel to the church 0.77

00:40:10.620 now and what is the

00:40:12.460 Bible talking about when

00:40:13.620 it talks about Israel

00:40:14.580 and Revelation that the

00:40:16.020 thing that so many

00:40:16.880 people that people think

00:40:17.780 they're bringing about by

00:40:18.840 like said writing the

00:40:20.000 checks to Israel you 1.00

00:40:21.040 know grand small

00:40:21.760 grandmothers on fixed

00:40:22.820 incomes right I'm glad

00:40:25.020 you brought up Bibby the 1.00

00:40:27.340 true guaranteed winner of

00:40:28.640 every American election

00:40:29.780 I would like to thank

00:40:31.940 I would like to thank

00:40:32.780 Joe Biden for his

00:40:33.880 Zionism right and I

00:40:34.960 would like to thank

00:40:35.520 Donald Trump for his

00:40:36.300 exactly whether it's

00:40:37.620 Trump or Kamala or

00:40:38.960 George Clooney there

00:40:40.440 there is one guaranteed

00:40:41.760 individual who will win

00:40:42.880 the 2024 election I saw

00:40:45.120 a meme it was like it

00:40:46.680 was you know showing the

00:40:47.640 electoral vote and it

00:40:48.700 was every you know all

00:40:50.000 50 states and they were

00:40:51.440 all they weren't exactly

00:40:52.560 you know the Democrat

00:40:53.340 blue or the you know

00:40:54.500 Republican red but they 0.92

00:40:55.520 were the color blue of

00:40:57.360 the Israel flag and it

00:40:59.300 showed Bibby you know

00:41:00.280 standing there smiling

00:41:01.420 you know it was like

00:41:02.920 the winner you know and

00:41:04.020 so so to answer your

00:41:05.440 question what's the

00:41:06.100 relationship between the

00:41:07.360 modern nation state of

00:41:09.000 Israel that we have 0.94

00:41:09.920 today versus what the

00:41:13.220 Bible talks about are 0.99

00:41:14.880 these the same people is

00:41:16.920 this what the Bible is

00:41:19.040 prophesying about and I

00:41:20.580 would say and I know

00:41:22.080 it's controversial but

00:41:22.840 hear me out because I

00:41:23.860 don't think for the

00:41:25.120 record I don't want to

00:41:27.400 just be right I want to

00:41:28.340 be right because truth

00:41:29.140 matters but but I don't

00:41:31.800 want to be just right I

00:41:33.860 want to also win I would

00:41:35.460 like to win and one way

00:41:37.380 to win is to be to not be

00:41:40.680 unhinged so this will not

00:41:42.180 be an unhinged you know 0.95

00:41:45.260 your typical 4chan you 0.97

00:41:46.960 know 16 year old who just

00:41:48.500 learned about Zionism and

00:41:50.120 you know it's now screeching

00:41:51.700 so everything you said

00:41:54.220 number one I confirm and

00:41:56.160 and absolutely agree with

00:41:57.660 what you said that the

00:41:58.980 reality is within the

00:41:59.900 sovereignty of God you

00:42:01.640 know the scripture in the

00:42:02.660 New Testament Peter's

00:42:03.960 epistles he says that the

00:42:05.500 Christian is to honor the

00:42:06.420 king here's the reality of

00:42:07.820 kings a lot of kings pretty

00:42:10.680 much all of them are not

00:42:11.660 elected in fact a lot of

00:42:13.980 kings come in by power 0.99

00:42:16.360 swoops and coups and

00:42:17.580 conquering and this and

00:42:18.520 that there are a lot of

00:42:19.500 kings that that uh that

00:42:21.400 attain their kingship um

00:42:23.340 by other than legitimate

00:42:24.600 ethical means and yet at a

00:42:26.640 certain point here's how

00:42:27.840 the promise of God works at

00:42:29.120 a certain point um something

00:42:31.840 becomes legitimate and

00:42:33.820 should be treated as

00:42:34.820 legitimate even if it

00:42:36.280 initially um occurred by

00:42:38.900 illegitimate means uh for

00:42:41.340 instance think of here's an

00:42:42.700 example uh divorce and

00:42:43.880 remarriage uh the Bible

00:42:45.800 says that God hates

00:42:46.500 divorce and there's only

00:42:48.440 two biblical clauses that

00:42:50.080 would give uh somebody

00:42:51.260 actually cause for divorce

00:42:52.960 that's infidelity uh and

00:42:54.880 not just infidelity of the

00:42:56.040 heart no your spouse

00:42:57.180 actually um actually is uh

00:43:00.480 unfaithful and um and

00:43:02.340 commits adultery and then

00:43:03.500 the other would be

00:43:04.180 abandonment and again it's

00:43:05.340 not just well emotionally I

00:43:06.560 feel abandoned because he

00:43:07.560 didn't compliment my hair you

00:43:09.000 know didn't even notice I

00:43:09.880 got a haircut last week no

00:43:11.260 actual abandonment so not

00:43:12.640 adultery of the heart not

00:43:13.440 abandonment of the heart but

00:43:14.400 in in in the real um aside

00:43:17.760 from that if if you divorce

00:43:20.060 your wife or or wife

00:43:21.680 divorces her husband aside

00:43:23.020 from biblical cause then you

00:43:24.900 have sinned but there's a

00:43:26.520 difference in committing a

00:43:27.560 sinful act versus being in a

00:43:29.060 continual inevitable ongoing

00:43:31.460 state of sin sin is different

00:43:34.300 than sinning and so if you

00:43:36.240 divorce your spouse and you 0.97

00:43:37.980 actually didn't have biblical

00:43:38.960 cause let's say you weren't

00:43:40.180 even a believer and then you

00:43:41.500 married another woman and and

00:43:43.380 then God saved you and you

00:43:44.820 came into uh biblical

00:43:46.780 convictions and you realize

00:43:47.860 oh my goodness I've I've done

00:43:49.520 something terrible and you go

00:43:50.480 to your pastor if you have a

00:43:51.720 good pastor and you go to

00:43:53.460 your passion like I I guess I

00:43:54.820 need to get divorced from my 1.00

00:43:55.980 second wife and go back to my 1.00

00:43:57.140 first if you have a good

00:43:58.200 pastor he's gonna say whoa

00:43:59.600 whoa whoa no no no you're the

00:44:01.880 woman you're currently married

00:44:02.760 to is your wife um it was sin but

00:44:06.340 you are not sinning you're not

00:44:07.940 in a continual ongoing state of

00:44:09.780 sin in God's providence what you

00:44:11.560 did was wrong but in God's

00:44:13.460 providence he uses all things

00:44:15.240 even suffering Romans chapter

00:44:17.020 eight all things for the good

00:44:18.060 of those who love him and who

00:44:19.740 are called according to his

00:44:20.720 purpose now that doesn't mean

00:44:21.760 that we knowingly do evil

00:44:23.700 things so that good might occur

00:44:25.080 Romans 3 um objects to that

00:44:27.620 strategy but the point is that

00:44:29.880 whether or not we agree with

00:44:31.200 the formation of the modern

00:44:32.320 state of Israel it is a nation

00:44:33.960 now so I I deny that Israel has 1.00

00:44:37.640 uh supernatural divine land

00:44:39.400 rights I do not deny that

00:44:41.660 Israel is a legitimate nation

00:44:43.200 state and all nation states for

00:44:45.240 the present have an obligation

00:44:47.300 and the rights to defend their

00:44:48.800 lands defend their citizens from

00:44:50.940 threats both domestic and foreign

00:44:52.600 so I view Israel I don't view them 1.00

00:44:55.220 as the worst nation I don't view

00:44:56.960 them as an illegitimate nation but 0.93

00:44:59.080 I also don't view them as a

00:45:00.580 supernatural divine special nation

00:45:02.360 they're just a nation and so what

00:45:04.100 are the promises of God for

00:45:05.320 Israel uh the same as his promises 0.96

00:45:07.480 for Russia and for Brazil and

00:45:09.760 for China and for these United 0.64

00:45:11.820 States um I so I'm a post

00:45:13.960 millennial Christian and and so

00:45:15.960 I'm you know I'm pretty bearish in

00:45:17.900 the short term honestly but I'm

00:45:19.780 bullish long term and and so I

00:45:22.180 believe that uh the promises for

00:45:23.620 Israel are the promises for all 0.99

00:45:25.240 the nations that the nations are

00:45:27.460 Christ inheritance ask and I will

00:45:29.520 give the nations to you uh that's

00:45:31.220 the promise that the father makes

00:45:32.340 to the son and I believe that it's

00:45:33.740 not arbitrary it's not uh an empty

00:45:35.680 promise that the son actually takes

00:45:37.500 the father up on that promise that

00:45:39.140 he has in fact asked for the

00:45:40.720 nations and that all the nations of

00:45:42.420 the earth as Isaiah says will

00:45:44.160 eventually flock to Mount Zion

00:45:46.160 that they will come to see they will

00:45:48.140 taste and see that the Lord is good

00:45:49.620 that this little mustard seed that

00:45:51.700 was buried planted underground that

00:45:53.900 Christ is that seed he was buried in

00:45:56.100 his death and buried and that uh that

00:45:58.900 he is growing into an all-encompassing

00:46:01.560 global tree uh where the the the

00:46:04.900 birds of the air will find rest in

00:46:06.340 its branches and the beasts of the

00:46:07.580 field find shade uh under the tree or

00:46:10.560 the the the stone that comes and

00:46:12.500 crushes like Nebuchadnezzar's dream in 0.64

00:46:14.360 the book of Daniel um there's all

00:46:16.080 these kingdoms it starts with gold and

00:46:17.800 and then it progressively regresses you

00:46:20.040 know and gets less and less quality and

00:46:21.980 eventually there's a mixed kingdom down

00:46:23.680 the fourth kingdom the feet um that's

00:46:25.960 that's both iron so it's not precious

00:46:28.280 it's not um affluent but it's strong it

00:46:31.540 has a military strength I think that

00:46:33.240 refers to Rome but it but eventually it

00:46:35.420 gets to a mixed kingdom of iron but 0.94

00:46:37.640 also a brittle clay and and then you

00:46:40.380 see not a kingdom formed by human hands

00:46:43.200 but you see that the scripture says a

00:46:45.240 stone cut by no human hand all of a

00:46:48.140 sudden it's cut and then it begins to

00:46:50.280 roll towards this statue of Nebuchadnezzar

00:46:52.760 with these four different kingdoms and it

00:46:54.680 strikes at the feet and I think that's

00:46:56.420 chronological speaking of time it

00:46:58.460 strikes at the current the the last

00:47:00.520 kingdom formed which was this divided

00:47:02.460 kingdom I think it's Rome when they

00:47:04.140 bit off more than they could chew as

00:47:05.440 typical empires do you know became

00:47:07.160 over expanded and fractured and it

00:47:10.160 divided and it hits Rome and it shatters

00:47:12.520 all the way up and so the whole statue

00:47:14.920 begins to crumble but that's not the

00:47:16.440 final thing that happens the stone then

00:47:18.860 begins to grow into an um an all

00:47:21.520 encompassing mountain that fills the

00:47:24.000 whole world so so this fifth kingdom is

00:47:27.000 the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ and

00:47:28.940 that doesn't mean that there aren't

00:47:30.040 still nations and there aren't still

00:47:31.440 ethnicities it doesn't mean race

00:47:33.100 doesn't exist or you know gender

00:47:34.680 doesn't exist or like no we still have

00:47:36.540 all these natural affinities and all

00:47:38.280 these God created a world with order and

00:47:40.800 there's there's natural law and there's

00:47:43.100 natural affections and all these things

00:47:44.800 still matter but there is this all

00:47:47.000 encompassing kingdom not a one global

00:47:48.900 order but but that all the nations of

00:47:51.680 the earth while still being distinct and

00:47:53.120 unique and all the historical and

00:47:54.620 traditional ways they will all have one

00:47:56.660 thing eventually in common they'll all

00:47:58.160 be they'll all be Christianized I believe 0.99

00:48:00.860 that and I believe that the modern state

00:48:02.240 of Israel is included in that but as it

00:48:04.240 pertains to Revelation and Daniel and the

00:48:06.000 Bible back to your question I I would

00:48:08.620 say so I am a partial preterist what that

00:48:12.440 means preterist simply is the Latin word

00:48:14.840 for past or fulfilled and so back to a

00:48:18.640 comment I made very briefly earlier but

00:48:20.820 to spell it out just a bit more the

00:48:22.900 Christian when we read scripture we need 0.92

00:48:24.600 to be aware of this hermeneutical

00:48:26.180 principle hermeneutics is just how to

00:48:28.140 study the Bible how to read the Bible

00:48:29.760 accurately how to you know how to you

00:48:32.700 know to read you know one part of the

00:48:35.100 scripture and know that the scriptures is

00:48:36.900 being explicitly literal here and then

00:48:38.760 read another part of the scripture and

00:48:40.560 know that it's not you know when the

00:48:41.760 Bible says that the eyes of the Lord

00:48:43.900 roam to and fro over the earth you know

00:48:45.940 or his right arm is mighty to save that

00:48:48.780 does not mean that God has a literal

00:48:50.900 right arm now how do we know that well

00:48:52.940 we interpret scripture by scripture and

00:48:54.960 and when there's seemingly a less clear

00:48:57.360 portion of scripture then we default to

00:49:00.280 the more clear portion of scripture well

00:49:02.000 John chapter 4 Jesus explicitly says to

00:49:04.680 the Samaritan woman he says that a time

00:49:07.100 is coming where true worshipers will

00:49:08.840 worship in spirit and truth because the

00:49:10.560 God that we worship is spirit he said

00:49:13.220 you know and and so even the the

00:49:15.220 confessions Westminster the Savoy the

00:49:17.200 1689 the the typical Protestant

00:49:19.360 confessions as well as Catholic and

00:49:20.900 Eastern Orthodox they all agree in

00:49:22.980 theology proper that is our theology of

00:49:25.500 God himself his essence his nature they

00:49:28.060 say something along these lines God is a

00:49:30.580 most pure spirit without body parts or

00:49:34.640 passions body parts or passions so God is

00:49:37.160 a spirit now the second member of the

00:49:38.820 eternal Trinity that the son of God he

00:49:41.800 has taken on in human history in his

00:49:44.160 incarnation a body and so he is forever

00:49:46.580 now the God man but but the the the God

00:49:49.580 head our triune God father and Holy

00:49:52.980 Spirit don't have a literal right arm so 1.00

00:49:55.680 when the scripture says his right arm is

00:49:57.000 mighty to save if I sit here and I say

00:49:59.320 well God doesn't have a literal right arm

00:50:00.840 the proper response from Protestant

00:50:03.340 Christians should not be heretic you know 1.00

00:50:06.140 he denies the word of God and so 0.96

00:50:07.720 hermeneutics is simply learning how to

00:50:09.520 read the Bible properly so back now to

00:50:11.140 partial preterist what what I'm saying in

00:50:13.400 that is that all scripture is for us all

00:50:16.780 scriptures for the Christian in all times

00:50:18.920 in all places so whether you're in

00:50:20.380 Brazil in the 11th century you know or

00:50:23.180 or you're you know or Japan in the 13th

00:50:25.480 century or these United States in the

00:50:27.080 21st all scriptures for you but not all

00:50:30.020 scripture is to you and what I mean by

00:50:32.420 that is is that every single book of the

00:50:34.620 Bible has an immediate literal historical 0.98

00:50:38.000 human audience and so the quintessential

00:50:41.500 text would be Romans chapter 11 and I've

00:50:44.040 already referred to it previously that's

00:50:46.040 where the Apostle Paul is speaking to a

00:50:48.740 church a Christian church at Rome so

00:50:51.160 these are Gentiles he's not speaking to 1.00

00:50:52.980 Jews he's speaking to Gentile Christians

00:50:54.620 and he's telling them hey guys don't get 0.86

00:50:57.800 arrogant don't be prideful I know that

00:51:00.180 right now a lot of the persecution for

00:51:02.940 New Testament Christians is coming from 1.00

00:51:04.760 it's coming from the synagogue it's coming 0.98

00:51:07.580 from you know from Judaism it's coming 1.00

00:51:10.940 from religious Jewish leaders they're the 0.82

00:51:13.440 ones who are rounding you up and Paul

00:51:14.760 says I know this because I used to do it

00:51:16.180 you know when Stephen was stoned I was

00:51:17.880 standing right there thinking that I was

00:51:19.880 being very zealous for the tradition of

00:51:21.540 my fathers and holding the coats of those

00:51:23.660 who stoned him and so I know that it's

00:51:26.460 it's tempting to get upset when you see

00:51:28.780 the Jewish people is one of the primary 0.84

00:51:31.520 persecutors of of Gentile Christians

00:51:34.460 however do not be arrogant for if God

00:51:37.760 did not spare the natural branches

00:51:39.460 because of their unbelief but rather cut

00:51:42.500 them off so that you a wild olive shoot

00:51:45.500 the unnatural branches might be grafted in

00:51:47.880 if God would cut them off for their

00:51:49.680 unbelief then God could cut you off for

00:51:52.180 your arrogance and if God is able to

00:51:54.320 sever to cut off the natural branches

00:51:56.200 then he is certainly able to graft them

00:51:58.460 back in and if their separation from the

00:52:01.200 root who is Christ not not the priestly

00:52:04.320 sacrificial system not Judaism but 0.96

00:52:06.200 Christ is the root the natural branches

00:52:08.540 are supported by Christ by the root and

00:52:10.640 not the other way around and and if if

00:52:12.840 them being severed from the root who is

00:52:15.320 Christ meant your inclusion so that you

00:52:17.880 might be grafted in well then their later

00:52:20.460 inclusion will be even better results

00:52:23.520 better fruit for you what will it mean

00:52:25.160 life from the dead here's my theory

00:52:27.560 or and and it's not unique to me because

00:52:30.740 if I was the first guy to come up with

00:52:32.040 it then see point a you know Darby and

00:52:34.000 Schofield it's not a good place to be

00:52:35.600 right if you're if you're entirely novel

00:52:38.020 then you're probably a heretic so I'm not 1.00

00:52:41.940 the only guy to have this this view but

00:52:44.520 but as a partial preterist I view a lot of

00:52:46.840 the scripture as it's all for me it's not

00:52:49.300 all immediately to me and and I believe a

00:52:51.960 lot of the scripture New Testament

00:52:53.500 scripture as prophecy that was

00:52:56.540 unfulfilled at the time of its writing but

00:52:59.540 but here 2,000 years later our side of

00:53:02.700 history actually has been fulfilled so I

00:53:04.920 would date the writing of the book of

00:53:06.720 Romans along with many other biblical

00:53:08.920 scholars somewhere around 80 50 80 55

00:53:11.960 probably 20 15 20 years before 80 70

00:53:16.460 which a very significant historical event

00:53:18.800 took place the destruction of Jerusalem 0.92

00:53:21.200 from Titus you know in the temple and

00:53:22.840 everything you know it's it's it's one of

00:53:24.660 the greatest fulfillments to to prophecy

00:53:26.760 that we've ever seen in the Olivet

00:53:28.400 discourse Matthew chapter 24 Jesus

00:53:30.880 himself he says I tell you the truth not

00:53:32.720 one stone of this temple will be standing

00:53:35.060 on another and and part of the reason why

00:53:37.320 is because the Romans the temple it was 0.95

00:53:38.740 sealed together instead of just typical

00:53:40.420 mortar it was sealed together with each

00:53:42.520 stone with gold interladen with gold and

00:53:44.540 the Romans came and and they you know 0.99

00:53:46.620 extirpated all all the gold and all all

00:53:48.720 the wealth of the temple in Israel and

00:53:50.440 literally not one stone was standing on

00:53:52.720 another and Jesus says he doesn't just

00:53:54.460 say that but he says I tell you the

00:53:55.940 truth in that same segment as he's

00:53:58.520 speaking to this immediate audience he

00:54:00.160 says this generation will not pass away

00:54:02.660 until it happens and and this is one of

00:54:04.760 the places where we're like well that

00:54:06.140 that's you know God has a literal right

00:54:08.120 arm that's that's literal but over here

00:54:10.320 when Jesus says this generation that's 1.00

00:54:11.820 that's just a metaphor it just means this

00:54:14.260 type of generation or you know they'll

00:54:16.020 always be you know unbelieving people 0.98

00:54:17.760 until Jesus returns it's the type of 0.83

00:54:19.560 person a rebellious generation no he

00:54:21.760 meant that generation 40 years from

00:54:24.540 the time that Jesus gave this prophecy

00:54:26.080 to the destruction 8070 of Jerusalem 0.99

00:54:28.660 the temple it was one of the greatest

00:54:31.060 most accurate prophecies ever given by

00:54:33.180 Christ himself no less and and that

00:54:36.940 generation did not pass away Josephus

00:54:39.660 the great you know Jewish historian he

00:54:41.340 actually has multiple accounts of

00:54:43.460 eyewitnesses that in 8070 in in the

00:54:46.280 destruction of the temple Jesus says you

00:54:48.200 know there'll be clouds and billows of

00:54:49.800 smoke this is not a baby angel cherubim

00:54:52.700 playing harps on clouds it's not heavenly

00:54:54.600 language clouds signify judgment language

00:54:58.600 it's billows of smoke it's desolation

00:55:00.960 it's destruction and and on these clouds

00:55:03.680 as Jerusalem is being decimated and

00:55:06.220 there's rubble and ash blotting out the

00:55:08.960 sun and there's blood mixed in the ashes

00:55:11.020 and all these things billows of smoke

00:55:13.560 many people told Josephus who was not

00:55:16.120 even a Christian himself they said that

00:55:17.820 they actually saw Jewish people who were

00:55:20.020 left in Jerusalem at the time of the

00:55:21.520 destruction they saw silhouettes of what

00:55:24.240 looked like chariots going back and forth

00:55:26.600 behind the clouds and the smoke my point in

00:55:30.060 this is that Jesus actually did return not

00:55:34.340 literally not physically but there was in a

00:55:37.440 sense a second spiritual coming of Christ

00:55:40.540 while being seated in as God man in the

00:55:43.540 flesh at the right hand of the father in

00:55:45.080 heaven that didn't change but there was a

00:55:47.620 spiritual the spirit of the resurrected

00:55:49.660 Christ by the ministry of the Holy Spirit

00:55:52.200 he did as it were return exactly like he

00:55:55.960 said he did like he said he was going to

00:55:58.480 40 years later after making this prophecy

00:56:01.380 in Matthew 24 to that generation before

00:56:03.800 those people passed away and he came to

00:56:06.300 judge the very generation and the very

00:56:08.360 place the very people who who rejected

00:56:11.320 him and so all that being said back to

00:56:13.880 Romans 11 Paul says that eventually these

00:56:16.640 people the natural branches will be grafted

00:56:19.140 back in and that their disclusion means

00:56:22.980 your inclusion it's a good thing but their 0.99

00:56:25.540 inclusion don't worry it's not going to be

00:56:27.520 snip snap snip snap you know that they come

00:56:30.220 back in and now the Gentiles are booted back 1.00

00:56:32.220 out no when they come back in God is able to

00:56:34.660 graft them in and when they're grafted back

00:56:36.020 in you've already been included you'll

00:56:39.040 remain included and that will be a catalyst

00:56:41.640 that kick-starts a great global revival that

00:56:45.100 is the very life from the dead is what

00:56:47.960 Romans 11 says well what I think is that

00:56:50.400 that's not something in our future that's

00:56:52.520 something that was in the future of the

00:56:54.180 immediate audience of these Gentile Christians

00:56:56.120 in Rome that Paul was writing to but I

00:56:58.680 think that that actually happened in 80 70 I

00:57:00.840 think that the Jewish people when they saw 0.99

00:57:04.000 the fulfillment of the one of the greatest

00:57:05.860 prophecies ever given that in some sense

00:57:08.560 even dwarfs the significance of the

00:57:10.560 prophecies made by Isaiah or Jeremiah or

00:57:13.140 Ezekiel that Jesus Christ in the flesh the

00:57:16.120 son of God said this temple will be

00:57:18.140 destroyed there is a great judgment coming

00:57:20.800 and one of the things he says is he says

00:57:22.540 don't run back to your house when you see

00:57:24.260 the judgment coming don't grab your cloak or

00:57:26.520 don't do this or don't do that but rather

00:57:28.100 flee well why does he say to flee because

00:57:30.560 if it's a global judgment that's the end

00:57:33.400 of the world well there's you can't flee a

00:57:36.020 global judgment Jesus is saying you should

00:57:38.800 flee because it was a local judgment that

00:57:41.820 was going to take place within 40 years one

00:57:44.200 generation that was going to be a 0.98

00:57:46.120 particular judgment of God in a spiritual

00:57:48.680 parousia coming of Christ on that

00:57:51.420 generation of those Jewish people who

00:57:54.000 rejected their Messiah and the Jewish 1.00

00:57:56.280 people I believe they saw it and and for

00:57:59.240 many of them like the Roman centurion who

00:58:01.300 pierces with his spear the side of Jesus 0.66

00:58:03.900 after he's after he's died and breathed his

00:58:06.440 last and he's still hanging on the cross

00:58:08.540 and blood and water stream out of his side

00:58:10.540 and he says surely this was the son of God

00:58:12.600 I think that many of the Jewish people in

00:58:14.720 80 70 saw the desolation exactly as Christ 0.65

00:58:17.920 predicted and they said surely this was the

00:58:20.600 son of God and there are records historical

00:58:23.380 records that this is after the closing of the

00:58:25.620 canon so we don't have it in scripture rated

00:58:27.440 as a book of the Bible but many historical

00:58:29.500 records that there was actually a great

00:58:31.400 conversion of natural ethnic Jewish people

00:58:35.180 that many of them converted to Christ and

00:58:38.300 and and they you know and many of them

00:58:40.080 actually avoided many died who did not

00:58:42.620 convert because they discounted what Jesus

00:58:44.740 said in Matthew 24 so they stayed in

00:58:46.540 Jerusalem and wrote off Jesus and what he

00:58:48.760 said as as just a crackpot and and then

00:58:51.900 they died when Titus came and sacked the city

00:58:54.080 but those who who thought you know they

00:58:56.580 started seeing that the pre-invasion attacks

00:58:58.880 ramping up in the beginning of the

00:59:00.040 desolation they thought back to that

00:59:01.920 moment you know when Jesus this guy who

00:59:04.460 ultimately they handed over to Pilate to

00:59:06.420 crucify they remembered his words and like

00:59:08.400 oh no wait a second oh I think we we botched

00:59:11.300 it and and they got out of dodge they

00:59:13.300 escaped the persecution escaped the

00:59:15.600 desolation converted to Christ because they 0.84

00:59:17.920 saw the most profound fulfillment of his

00:59:20.300 very words and and then where did they

00:59:22.380 go they they went and settled in other

00:59:24.140 places like I don't know maybe Christians

00:59:26.300 and in Palestine might actually be the

00:59:28.380 descendants and and it's so fascinating

00:59:30.220 because they've done you know they've

00:59:32.040 actually done swab DNA swabbing of

00:59:34.460 catacombs in Jerusalem 2,000 year old

00:59:38.060 catacombs and and Ashkenazi Jews in 1.00

00:59:41.580 Jerusalem today in the modern Jewish state

00:59:43.580 they they lined up fairly well it wasn't

00:59:45.860 like there was no you know zero percent

00:59:47.340 match it was like you know high 80s low

00:59:49.500 90s but then they they matched it with

00:59:52.680 the DNA of of not you know Hamas or you

00:59:56.020 know or Iran but but a particular sect of

00:59:58.740 Christians in Palestine and the

01:00:01.180 Christians not not the Muslims but the 0.99

01:00:04.060 Christians in Palestine matched at 98 0.82

01:00:06.420 percent these catacombs in Jerusalem that 0.89

01:00:09.900 were 2,000 years old well how could that

01:00:11.940 happen well maybe because their ancestors

01:00:14.400 2,000 years ago were Jews who converted to

01:00:17.560 Christ and and got out of Dodge because

01:00:19.900 they believe the words of Jesus so here's 0.96

01:00:21.860 my point you know you've got black

01:00:23.560 Hebrew Israelites that say well black 0.94

01:00:25.400 people are actually the Jews and there's

01:00:27.980 you know a growing consensus that I think 0.98

01:00:30.020 is is weird and dumb and in false but 0.98

01:00:33.800 growing consensus of well the lost 10 1.00

01:00:35.700 tribes of Israel they you know dispersed

01:00:37.740 above the Caucasus Mountains and who do

01:00:39.500 they become Caucasians white people are the 0.81

01:00:41.920 true reason and and then there's a third 0.77

01:00:43.660 one or you might have heard this one

01:00:45.240 before there's also a funny theory that a

01:00:48.300 bunch of people who all their birth

01:00:50.060 records were destroyed in 80 70 and then

01:00:52.240 there's zero written record for 200 years

01:00:54.920 until the introduction of the Talmud there's

01:00:57.340 a bunch of those people who say that

01:00:58.780 they're the true Jews and the reason why I

01:01:01.100 like to point out the black Hebrew

01:01:02.400 Israelites and the Caucasians being that is 0.96

01:01:04.900 because I think that that the modern

01:01:07.580 person Israel today being the direct exact

01:01:11.580 pure ethnic descendants of Abraham I think

01:01:14.260 that one is just as far-fetched I really

01:01:16.400 do so here's the point the point is it

01:01:18.640 doesn't matter that ethnically God in his

01:01:21.160 providence shuffle the deck and 1.00

01:01:24.020 covenantally God in his providence with

01:01:26.460 finality in 80 70 and the destruction of

01:01:28.540 the temple and all these he ended the

01:01:30.480 covenant so so what is there left there's

01:01:32.880 one thing left Christ will you be grafted

01:01:36.280 into him by faith and that is for all

01:01:38.920 ethnicities and all peoples in all places

01:01:40.740 in all nation-states including the modern

01:01:42.740 nation-state of Israel and I think you

01:01:44.340 know we don't need to be cute and so we're

01:01:45.960 going to call it something else we won't

01:01:47.580 call it Israel we won't call them Jews 1.00

01:01:49.120 like no you can't spend the rest of your 0.87

01:01:52.020 life trying to persuade 8 billion people

01:01:53.900 to adopt your language and actually so no

01:01:56.660 they're Jews but for I think for technical 1.00

01:02:00.420 purposes theological purposes no I don't

01:02:03.220 believe that these are the perfect you

01:02:05.040 know undefiled pure genetic offspring of

01:02:07.840 Abraham and no covenantally I don't think

01:02:10.180 there's any land promises or divine rights

01:02:12.480 or third temple being you know built I

01:02:14.720 know I think that's done however these

01:02:17.280 are still people human beings made in the 0.85

01:02:19.220 image of God like all peoples God God

01:02:21.620 loves all has compassion on all he has

01:02:23.620 made they need the gospel of Jesus Christ

01:02:25.820 there's no special promises for them but

01:02:28.540 there are the wonderful promises for them

01:02:30.300 and us and everybody else if that's good

01:02:32.320 enough I think it's good enough that you

01:02:34.980 you get to have Christ and and that's our

01:02:38.040 mission I think as as Westerners and

01:02:40.620 Gentile Christians is to preach the gospel

01:02:43.100 to all nations and and that none of them 1.00

01:02:45.500 are special that that any man if he is to

01:02:48.200 be saved there's one name that all men

01:02:51.040 under heaven might be saved and it requires

01:02:53.700 repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus

01:02:55.160 Christ and that's for all peoples in all

01:02:57.400 times in all places and so I read

01:02:59.040 Revelation not all of it the last couple

01:03:01.500 chapters I think is still in our future

01:03:03.040 speaking of the final return of Christ

01:03:05.000 there is a final eschaton and that is

01:03:07.160 coming but much of the book of Revelation

01:03:09.340 and much of the book of Romans and Daniel

01:03:11.620 Revelation 11 I think was futuristic for

01:03:14.740 the immediate audience who they were

01:03:16.360 writing to it's still for us but it was

01:03:19.060 to them and it was in their future but

01:03:21.740 long in our past and if we keep reading

01:03:24.980 the Bible as a sci-fi book a comic book

01:03:29.240 and that it's all in our future then I

01:03:33.340 think we miss the threat and and I think

01:03:35.500 that we start you know looking for blood

01:03:38.120 moons and red heifers and that is not how

01:03:41.860 Christians thought for 1850 years it's just

01:03:46.340 not that is a modern novel phenomenon that

01:03:49.520 has massive geopolitical consequences billions

01:03:52.700 of dollars and over you know a tax farm of

01:03:55.360 American citizens and endless wars I don't 0.99

01:03:58.660 think it's panned out well well I really

01:04:01.240 appreciate that like I said maybe people

01:04:03.640 won't you know suddenly change their mind

01:04:05.700 on something like this but it's important

01:04:07.500 for people to understand this background

01:04:09.380 to understand this history perhaps

01:04:11.680 ultimately they do think that

01:04:13.100 dispensationalism has the better argument

01:04:15.060 has the truth to it but at least now they

01:04:17.260 have that background they have that

01:04:18.420 understanding they have that knowledge and

01:04:20.320 like I said this has implications to

01:04:23.500 us today we have our foreign policy wrapped

01:04:25.720 into it we have so much of the current

01:04:28.300 church's energy wrapped into it so I think

01:04:30.840 it's important for people even if you still

01:04:33.060 come down on that side to clearly understand

01:04:35.100 where that belief came from why it's there

01:04:37.760 and why it's impacting your world today

01:04:39.560 so Joel I really appreciate you coming on

01:04:41.780 guys if it's your first time on this channel

01:04:43.800 please make sure you go ahead and subscribe

01:04:45.540 click the notifications the bell

01:04:47.620 we're not live today but normally you want

01:04:49.960 to make sure that you're here when we go

01:04:51.940 live and of course if you'd like to get these

01:04:53.840 broadcasts as podcasts you can do that on

01:04:56.660 your favorite podcast

01:04:57.540 favorite podcast platform just subscribe to

01:05:00.600 the Oren McIntyre show you can also pick up

01:05:02.460 my book the total state it's on Amazon

01:05:04.600 Barnes and Noble books a million and you

01:05:06.260 can pick it up at your favorite local

01:05:07.740 local bookstore Joel we already talked a

01:05:09.940 little bit about the conference but is

01:05:11.120 there anything else you want to direct

01:05:12.440 people to before we go

01:05:13.780 no that's it I'm really honored to be

01:05:16.840 invited on the show thank you Oren I

01:05:18.200 really appreciate that and

01:05:19.460 go to right response conference dot com if

01:05:22.220 you want to register and we just have

01:05:24.220 a couple more weeks of the early bird

01:05:26.000 pricing and so now would be an opportune

01:05:28.380 time to take advantage other than that if

01:05:30.640 you want to follow our podcast and things

01:05:33.260 that we talk about similar things to you

01:05:35.820 just from more of the theological

01:05:38.740 perspective I listen to your podcast a

01:05:42.060 lot Oren and I always find it incredibly

01:05:45.320 helpful because theology has consequences

01:05:47.860 but so do political ideas and there's

01:05:50.960 there's a lot it's I wish things were

01:05:52.860 simpler than than they actually are but

01:05:54.560 things tend to be somewhat complex and

01:05:57.740 and there's a lot of multiple you know

01:05:59.660 ideas and convictions that all bake into

01:06:02.220 the pie for why someone believes what they

01:06:04.840 believe and why we do what we do and so

01:06:07.200 you and what you've said from the you know

01:06:10.020 from elite theory to this to that to the

01:06:11.900 other has been incredibly beneficial for

01:06:14.040 me but if any of your listeners want to

01:06:16.240 hear you know similar topics what's going

01:06:18.400 on in culture what's going on politically

01:06:19.860 but some of the the Bible reasons you

01:06:23.660 know behind it then then check us out on

01:06:25.920 YouTube you can just go to right response

01:06:27.200 ministries on YouTube and you might find

01:06:30.540 it helpful yeah you definitely should

01:06:33.040 like I said watch episodes over there

01:06:35.120 with Andrew risk or another so you have

01:06:36.600 great guests as well all right guys

01:06:38.560 we're gonna go ahead and wrap this up but

01:06:40.520 thank you so much for watching and as

01:06:42.320 always I'll talk to you next time

The Auron MacIntyre Show - July 31, 2024

The Problem of Dispensational Eschatology ｜ Guest： Joel Webbon ｜ 7⧸31⧸24

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