The Auron MacIntyre Show - The Rise and Fall of the Intellectual Dark Web ｜ Guest： Dave Smith

00:00:00.000 We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight.

00:00:02.320 Rocky's Vacation, here we come.

00:00:05.060 Whoa, is this economy?

00:00:07.180 Free beer, wine, and snacks.

00:00:09.620 Sweet!

00:00:10.720 Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land.

00:00:14.760 And with live TV, I'm not missing the game.

00:00:17.800 It's kind of like, I'm already on vacation.

00:00:20.980 Nice!

00:00:22.240 On behalf of Air Canada, nice travels.

00:00:25.260 Wi-Fi available to Airplane members on Equipped Flight.

00:00:27.200 Sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply.

00:00:28.720 CRCanada.com.

00:00:30.000 Hey, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.600 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.900 Before we begin, I wanted to give you some big news.

00:00:40.600 We're excited to officially welcome Nicole Shanahan and her show,

00:00:43.920 Back to the People, to the Blaze TV family.

00:00:46.860 Nicole's a Silicon Valley attorney, entrepreneur, and advocate

00:00:49.760 who spent years fighting for transparency, freedom, and real change.

00:00:53.440 She's been a major voice in the Maha movement

00:00:55.880 and worked alongside RFK to push for a government

00:00:59.120 that's actually working for the people, not just elites.

00:01:02.720 But Nicole's journey doesn't stop there.

00:01:04.580 After years in the tech world, she experienced a powerful personal transformation

00:01:08.720 that led her to discover a deep connection to her faith.

00:01:12.140 That's a new perspective that she brings to everything she does.

00:01:15.140 On her brand new show at Blaze TV, Back to the People,

00:01:18.240 Nicole digs into the conversations that mainstream media ignores.

00:01:22.020 She brings together experts, activists, and everyday people to tackle tough issues,

00:01:26.440 share untold stories, and find real solutions rooted in truth and humanity.

00:01:31.380 If you want a sneak peek of what Nicole will be doing before she hits Blaze TV,

00:01:35.240 you can head to her YouTube channel at Nicole Shanahan.

00:01:38.580 That's youtube.com slash Nicole hyphen Shanahan,

00:01:41.880 or you can just search your name.

00:01:45.140 All right, guys.

00:01:46.640 So very rarely does one Rogan interview kind of blow up the internet.

00:01:51.280 You know, they kind of roll together today.

00:01:52.620 There's so many.

00:01:53.340 He does three hours at a time.

00:01:55.320 You can kind of forget what's going on.

00:01:57.420 But Dave Smith launched a thousand reply videos and angry tweets

00:02:01.760 after his recent debate with Douglas Murray on the show.

00:02:05.860 And Dave, I just really appreciate you coming on.

00:02:07.920 It's been an interesting thing in the last few weeks, to be sure.

00:02:10.740 Thank you for having me.

00:02:13.380 I, you know, I always enjoy talking to you and I'm a big fan of your show.

00:02:17.700 So I was excited to talk to you about some of this stuff.

00:02:21.340 And yeah, it's been the biggest reaction of anything I've ever been a part of.

00:02:26.600 And I've done some big shows.

00:02:28.800 So it's been very interesting and, to be honest, just a lot of fun.

00:02:36.380 But yeah, it's been a wild few weeks.

00:02:39.540 Yeah, you had the Daryl Cooper movement that created the Daryl Cooper movement,

00:02:43.620 or the moment that created the Daryl Cooper movement.

00:02:45.460 Like you had one just as big and just as ridiculous, I think.

00:02:49.280 I want to dive into not just that interview,

00:02:51.760 but the general direction of the intellectual dark web.

00:02:54.780 This is a movement that I have watched for a long time.

00:02:57.600 In a way, it's kind of responsible for me being here right now.

00:03:00.940 So seeing it turn into what it has has really been kind of sad.

00:03:04.620 But we'll dive into that in just a moment.

00:03:06.380 Before we do, let's hear from today's sponsor.

00:03:08.660 This episode of The Orrin McIntyre Show is proudly sponsored by Consumers Research.

00:03:13.280 You've heard about Larry Fink and BlackRock and ESG

00:03:16.320 and all the ways that they're ruining your life,

00:03:18.800 making your groceries more expensive and making your video games more woke.

00:03:23.320 Well, Consumers Research has spent the last five years making Larry's life hell,

00:03:27.480 and they're just getting started.

00:03:29.280 Their work and its consequences have been profiled by The Washington Post,

00:03:32.800 New York Times, and most recently,

00:03:35.180 Fox News business reporter Charlie Gasparono

00:03:37.480 wrote a whole chapter in his book,

00:03:39.840 Go Woke, Go Broke,

00:03:41.300 on how effective they've been at dismantling BlackRock's ESG patronage scheme.

00:03:46.960 He's making Larry Fink lose the last bit of hair on his balding head,

00:03:51.060 and you should follow Will's work on X so you can laugh along with him.

00:03:55.100 His handle is at Will Heil,

00:03:57.200 at Will, W-I-L-L-H-I-L-D, on X.

00:04:01.540 All right, Dave.

00:04:03.920 So maybe we should start from the beginning,

00:04:05.460 because I started to recognize,

00:04:07.220 as I've thrown around terms like the IDW,

00:04:09.500 that we are so deep into being severely online

00:04:12.960 that many people don't know the last generation of being severely online.

00:04:16.640 So they don't know some of this terminology.

00:04:20.080 But the IDW was this kind of loose coalition of people that started to show up,

00:04:25.180 especially around Joe Rogan's show, right?

00:04:27.080 We had Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris,

00:04:29.740 and a lot of guys started to go on Joe Rogan's show

00:04:33.640 who were obviously liberal for the most part,

00:04:36.980 but had started to recognize that there were some problems

00:04:39.860 with the progressive direction.

00:04:41.620 People like Eric and Brett Weinstein,

00:04:43.640 they wanted to work professionally,

00:04:45.060 they wanted to work in science,

00:04:46.200 they wanted to work in education,

00:04:47.320 and they were progressive by their nature.

00:04:49.460 These guys were teaching at like Evergreen State College, right?

00:04:51.940 This is not exactly a conservative bastion

00:04:54.020 of Buckleyite right-wing thought.

00:04:55.900 And yet, they were seeing this pattern, right?

00:04:59.000 This problem.

00:04:59.460 They showed up in places like the Rubin Report,

00:05:00.980 they showed up in places like Joe Rogan's podcast,

00:05:03.120 and these became hubs for kind of this connection of these people.

00:05:06.940 I remember watching when this happened.

00:05:09.140 This was kind of my first introduction into online politics.

00:05:12.540 I had read about this thing called Gamergate.

00:05:14.940 Some dude, Sargon of Akkad, was talking about it.

00:05:17.560 I watched a video or two of his,

00:05:18.900 and then he popped up on Joe Rogan and the Rubin Report

00:05:21.520 and all these other places,

00:05:22.440 and I started seeing this constellation of Milo Yiannopoulos

00:05:25.920 and Ben Shapiro

00:05:26.800 and all these guys who were kind of connected.

00:05:29.440 Then they're even kind of culminated

00:05:30.940 in this New York Times article

00:05:32.680 where Barry Weiss said,

00:05:33.900 this is the new heterodoxy.

00:05:36.180 These are the people who are pushing back

00:05:37.940 against censorship,

00:05:39.360 and they're for free speech,

00:05:40.880 and they're going to maintain

00:05:42.240 our classically liberal values

00:05:44.040 while ultimately still holding back

00:05:46.100 the right-wing backlash that will come.

00:05:48.340 Because remember,

00:05:48.780 that's always the worst part,

00:05:49.900 that the right-wing might have a backlash.

00:05:52.180 And this was kind of like,

00:05:53.520 at that time,

00:05:54.640 I thought this was pretty amazing.

00:05:56.260 Like, oh, these classical liberals

00:05:57.380 are riding in to save the day.

00:05:59.080 Do you have any recollection of that moment?

00:06:01.020 Do you have a deal?

00:06:01.740 Is that something that stood out in your mind,

00:06:03.360 or you only ran into this later?

00:06:05.380 No, it was the same for me,

00:06:06.880 like right around that time,

00:06:08.180 and I probably had a very similar,

00:06:10.700 you know, thought about it.

00:06:12.560 I mean, I always thought that,

00:06:14.120 you know, the term liberal

00:06:17.680 got so twisted up,

00:06:20.560 it became almost meaningless.

00:06:22.220 I mean, like,

00:06:22.600 and even when people

00:06:23.780 within the intellectual dark web

00:06:26.160 cast of characters

00:06:27.520 would refer to themselves

00:06:28.760 as classical liberals,

00:06:30.120 it was like,

00:06:30.460 hey, well, what do you guys

00:06:31.100 even mean by that?

00:06:32.100 I mean, like, you know,

00:06:32.980 like the term liberal

00:06:34.640 that you're telling me

00:06:35.860 applies to Ludwig von Mises

00:06:37.620 and AOC.

00:06:40.160 Like, they can both be called

00:06:41.620 the same,

00:06:42.200 you're like, okay,

00:06:42.760 so what are we actually

00:06:43.720 describing here?

00:06:45.440 And of course,

00:06:46.240 there's the dynamic

00:06:46.880 which I think you've been

00:06:47.860 about as good at covering

00:06:49.300 as anyone that I've seen,

00:06:51.160 but where, yes,

00:06:51.900 you have Barry Weiss

00:06:53.880 from the New York Times

00:06:56.000 at the time

00:06:57.100 telling you

00:06:58.400 these are the dissidents.

00:07:01.080 Like, if you just zoom out

00:07:02.040 and look at that,

00:07:02.560 it's just so hilarious

00:07:03.540 in a way.

00:07:04.080 It's like, oh, okay,

00:07:04.940 well, yeah,

00:07:05.460 I guess if you get to pick

00:07:06.660 who they are,

00:07:07.420 then this is what we end up with.

00:07:09.380 I do still,

00:07:10.900 despite, you know,

00:07:12.180 and we could talk about

00:07:13.400 some of the figures involved,

00:07:14.560 but I have different feelings

00:07:15.780 about, you know,

00:07:16.700 different members there,

00:07:18.320 but I do still to this day,

00:07:20.480 even some people

00:07:21.120 who I'm like not

00:07:21.820 a particularly big fan of,

00:07:23.700 say Ben Shapiro,

00:07:25.280 I do think there was

00:07:27.400 kind of something necessary

00:07:28.420 about what that movement

00:07:29.740 represented at that time,

00:07:31.680 and I think the fact that,

00:07:33.400 you know,

00:07:34.100 Ben Shapiro in 2017

00:07:36.260 going on to college campuses

00:07:38.200 and just like,

00:07:39.780 you know,

00:07:40.160 remember it was like

00:07:41.360 the thing where the sunglasses

00:07:43.300 would come on your face

00:07:45.120 in the joint

00:07:45.920 and then like the Snoop Doggy Dog

00:07:47.420 music would start playing

00:07:48.620 and whatever that little error

00:07:50.220 of the internet was,

00:07:52.020 it did seem to me

00:07:53.240 to be kind of like

00:07:54.000 a necessary force

00:07:55.580 that someone would go in there

00:07:57.040 and kind of smack down

00:07:58.300 these young campus leftists

00:08:00.400 with their crazy ideas,

00:08:01.740 and it did, I think,

00:08:03.620 give a lot of like breathing room

00:08:06.400 maybe for people like me and you

00:08:08.240 to go, okay, all right,

00:08:09.580 we're allowed to criticize

00:08:10.500 these ideas

00:08:11.360 and we're allowed to kind of

00:08:12.480 explore these topics,

00:08:13.600 and it has been,

00:08:14.960 it's been fascinating

00:08:16.200 to see where it's evolved to.

00:08:19.460 It's amazing

00:08:20.920 how much some of these figures

00:08:23.440 have lost

00:08:24.720 so much of their influence

00:08:27.100 and credibility,

00:08:27.820 while I think some others

00:08:29.120 have maintained it,

00:08:30.280 obviously Joe Rogan being

00:08:31.240 the best example

00:08:31.960 of the one who's like

00:08:32.700 totally still

00:08:33.700 the most influential guy,

00:08:35.780 and I think there's reasons

00:08:36.700 for that,

00:08:37.560 but, so I kind of look like,

00:08:39.000 I think it was,

00:08:39.620 it was a flawed movement

00:08:41.460 in a lot of ways,

00:08:42.460 but perhaps at the time

00:08:43.820 was necessary.

00:08:45.580 Yeah, I agree 100%

00:08:47.520 because it's very unfortunate,

00:08:49.380 but it's just true.

00:08:50.840 There are people on the right

00:08:53.220 who could have made

00:08:54.940 these intellectual arguments,

00:08:56.840 but a lot of them,

00:08:58.080 guys like Paul Gottfried

00:08:59.120 and others,

00:08:59.740 Samuel Francis,

00:09:00.920 were just excised

00:09:02.040 from the movement.

00:09:02.880 They're, you know,

00:09:03.180 of course,

00:09:03.600 guys like Pat Buchanan,

00:09:04.740 like, you know,

00:09:05.220 these are guys

00:09:05.820 who could have made

00:09:07.560 many of the points

00:09:08.960 that were made there,

00:09:10.040 but ultimately

00:09:10.960 were just not allowed

00:09:12.120 in most polite society.

00:09:13.860 I mean,

00:09:14.440 ultimately you recognize

00:09:15.960 that you needed

00:09:18.300 a group of people

00:09:19.240 who could come in

00:09:20.360 and like own them

00:09:22.220 with the facts

00:09:22.780 and the logic, right?

00:09:23.560 That was the whole

00:09:24.020 Ben Shapiro meme cut

00:09:26.220 that you're talking about,

00:09:27.100 right?

00:09:27.280 And so you needed

00:09:28.800 someone to step in there

00:09:29.660 and say,

00:09:30.000 no, actually,

00:09:31.220 you're not the smartest

00:09:32.020 kid in the room

00:09:32.620 just because you stepped

00:09:33.280 on a college campus

00:09:34.280 dogmatically regurgitating

00:09:35.980 whatever garbage

00:09:36.940 your professor put

00:09:37.640 in front of you

00:09:38.120 doesn't actually make you

00:09:39.500 an intellectual titan

00:09:40.340 who's smarter

00:09:40.780 than your parents.

00:09:42.180 You know,

00:09:42.400 there are intelligent arguments

00:09:44.700 against what you are saying

00:09:45.860 and here are some people

00:09:46.800 that can deliver them,

00:09:48.320 right?

00:09:48.520 And so in that sense,

00:09:50.000 I think that was important.

00:09:51.500 As you pointed out,

00:09:52.500 though,

00:09:52.720 from the beginning,

00:09:53.240 there was always a problem

00:09:54.140 because just the term

00:09:55.340 classical liberal

00:09:56.180 is completely bastardized,

00:09:57.840 right?

00:09:57.980 Like, you mean John Locke,

00:09:59.060 like the father

00:09:59.740 of classical liberalism

00:10:00.600 who said atheists

00:10:01.560 shouldn't be able

00:10:02.160 to hold public office

00:10:03.460 because they're entirely

00:10:04.160 right?

00:10:04.940 You mean that kind

00:10:05.840 of classical liberalism?

00:10:06.740 Because you could

00:10:07.240 probably sell me

00:10:07.720 on that one,

00:10:08.540 but you're interested

00:10:09.880 in that classical liberalism,

00:10:11.180 right?

00:10:11.360 Like, the tradition

00:10:12.780 they were talking about

00:10:13.820 was just completely unmoored

00:10:15.360 from the one

00:10:16.500 that actually exists,

00:10:17.760 both, you know,

00:10:18.460 from the libertarian side

00:10:19.600 or from what might be

00:10:20.880 considered like a more

00:10:21.920 American conservatism side,

00:10:23.540 right?

00:10:23.700 But in either case,

00:10:24.680 it just was not connected

00:10:25.820 to the actual understanding

00:10:27.460 or beliefs.

00:10:28.320 And so what you had

00:10:28.800 this weird mix of people,

00:10:30.720 you know,

00:10:30.860 you had new atheists

00:10:32.040 and then you had like

00:10:33.140 an Orthodox Jew

00:10:34.200 and then you had

00:10:35.360 a lot of guys

00:10:36.740 who were like

00:10:37.180 kind of quasi-agnostic

00:10:38.920 but wanted to recognize

00:10:40.300 the importance of the Bible

00:10:41.680 but weren't really,

00:10:42.660 you know,

00:10:43.180 able to commit.

00:10:43.800 And what that really ended up

00:10:44.880 with was this kind

00:10:45.680 of fractured coalition.

00:10:46.680 They all knew

00:10:47.240 what they were against.

00:10:48.920 They all knew that

00:10:49.560 in some way

00:10:50.580 their elite status

00:10:52.000 had been threatened

00:10:53.000 by the progressive revolution,

00:10:55.700 right?

00:10:55.920 These were all scientists

00:10:57.520 and political commentators

00:10:59.160 and scholars

00:11:00.420 who were comfortably

00:11:01.740 ensconced in academia

00:11:03.160 or in the Wall Street Journal

00:11:04.540 or somewhere out there,

00:11:05.980 right?

00:11:06.480 And then suddenly

00:11:07.200 the woke revolution

00:11:08.120 came and kind of

00:11:08.720 knocked them off the pedestal.

00:11:09.980 And they all knew

00:11:10.820 they needed to get back there

00:11:12.120 by addressing

00:11:12.840 the excesses

00:11:14.000 of the left

00:11:14.900 and what they had done.

00:11:15.600 But they kind of fundamentally

00:11:17.000 still held

00:11:17.740 a lot of the progressive beliefs.

00:11:19.440 Like, there wasn't

00:11:20.280 a very drastic understanding

00:11:22.340 in kind of the core principles

00:11:23.640 or the direction,

00:11:24.580 the gradient

00:11:25.020 that the movement

00:11:25.560 should be undertaking.

00:11:27.260 It's just,

00:11:27.760 well, you guys went too far

00:11:28.760 or too fast.

00:11:29.880 You ripped up a little

00:11:30.660 too much of the concrete

00:11:31.680 and we're having some trouble

00:11:32.780 getting everyone

00:11:33.360 across the street

00:11:34.060 at this point.

00:11:35.540 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:11:36.940 And they would,

00:11:38.140 look,

00:11:38.480 the truth is that

00:11:39.820 they're all leftists,

00:11:40.680 right?

00:11:40.920 And I don't even mean this

00:11:42.380 as an insult.

00:11:43.360 It's just a description.

00:11:44.980 Like, and even they would,

00:11:46.680 you know,

00:11:46.920 as you kind of touched on there,

00:11:48.520 they would even admit this

00:11:49.700 in their own words.

00:11:50.520 Like, their biggest fear

00:11:51.680 was a reaction

00:11:52.500 from the right.

00:11:53.360 And they,

00:11:53.920 what they were doing

00:11:54.720 throughout the whole process

00:11:55.780 was attacking the left

00:11:57.220 from the left.

00:11:58.380 And that's a,

00:11:59.540 that's an effective

00:12:00.880 technique at times.

00:12:02.740 And sometimes

00:12:03.160 it's even necessary.

00:12:04.400 But all of that

00:12:05.560 with like Ben Shapiro

00:12:06.800 used to say,

00:12:07.580 and Ben Shapiro,

00:12:08.100 yes, he too,

00:12:08.760 even though he's an Orthodox Jew,

00:12:09.800 is a leftist.

00:12:11.020 They really all are.

00:12:12.620 Now, that's not,

00:12:14.120 when I say they're leftists,

00:12:15.740 I don't mean

00:12:16.680 by the way

00:12:17.940 in pop American culture

00:12:19.860 we think of it,

00:12:20.600 we would probably place them

00:12:21.720 on the right wing.

00:12:22.960 But, you know,

00:12:23.740 I think somebody like you

00:12:24.700 probably has a little bit

00:12:25.600 of a deeper understanding

00:12:26.620 of this.

00:12:27.080 Like, when they said

00:12:27.840 classical liberals,

00:12:28.780 they meant of the 1990s.

00:12:31.280 That's what they're talking about.

00:12:32.680 Not like the true,

00:12:33.680 I mean,

00:12:33.880 if you want to go read

00:12:34.720 any of the classical liberals,

00:12:36.380 what their social views were,

00:12:38.140 now, they may not have been

00:12:38.960 like advocating for laws

00:12:40.440 to back this up,

00:12:41.420 but their social views

00:12:42.660 were like,

00:12:43.260 I mean,

00:12:44.040 something that

00:12:44.760 Ben Shapiro

00:12:46.740 would find abhorrent.

00:12:48.480 Like, you know,

00:12:48.860 like,

00:12:49.280 and I think that

00:12:50.540 when you really,

00:12:52.040 if you're going to have

00:12:52.740 like a real definition

00:12:53.680 of what it is truly

00:12:55.640 to be a right winger,

00:12:57.020 I would submit this,

00:12:58.180 and you can tell me

00:12:58.760 your thoughts on this

00:12:59.440 because I know

00:12:59.780 you're very well read

00:13:01.420 and thoughtful

00:13:02.240 about these issues,

00:13:03.100 but I would simply say

00:13:04.920 that a very good metric

00:13:08.160 is,

00:13:08.980 do you support

00:13:10.400 the Civil Rights Act?

00:13:12.080 Do you support

00:13:12.960 the Civil Rights Act

00:13:13.740 of 1964?

00:13:14.820 Because if you do,

00:13:16.880 then essentially

00:13:18.560 what you're supporting

00:13:19.820 is a massive

00:13:21.340 government intervention

00:13:23.060 into some of the most

00:13:25.900 kind of intimate areas

00:13:27.900 of society

00:13:28.720 for the aim

00:13:30.000 of racial egalitarianism.

00:13:32.120 I don't really see

00:13:33.260 how you could argue

00:13:34.120 supporting that

00:13:34.780 doesn't make you

00:13:35.340 a left winger.

00:13:35.980 Now, that's not even

00:13:36.820 an argument against

00:13:37.680 the Civil Rights Act

00:13:38.460 or for it.

00:13:39.280 I'm just saying that

00:13:40.000 almost anybody

00:13:41.300 who accepts that

00:13:42.400 is by their nature

00:13:43.640 a left winger.

00:13:44.880 And once you see that,

00:13:46.460 you go,

00:13:47.100 oh, they're all left wingers.

00:13:49.380 There's a tiny sliver

00:13:50.820 in American political life

00:13:52.160 that is truly right wing

00:13:53.580 and everybody else

00:13:54.900 is on the left.

00:13:55.700 And you would see this

00:13:56.760 even when Ben Shapiro

00:13:57.860 was owning the libs.

00:14:00.760 Even when he was doing

00:14:01.740 his shtick of like,

00:14:03.400 you know,

00:14:03.560 it's like,

00:14:04.340 oh, you know,

00:14:04.820 you think you're a boy,

00:14:07.060 but you can become a girl.

00:14:07.980 Why can't you become a tree?

00:14:09.300 And everyone's like,

00:14:09.740 ah, he destroyed

00:14:11.260 this campus leftist.

00:14:12.680 But then he'd always be like,

00:14:14.100 look, I'm a Jew.

00:14:14.960 I'm the most persecuted minority.

00:14:16.840 Look, all the right wingers

00:14:17.720 really hate me

00:14:18.460 because I'm Jew.

00:14:19.100 And it was always,

00:14:20.460 so what they were

00:14:21.840 essentially trying to do,

00:14:24.060 and I think you've done

00:14:24.740 a very good job

00:14:25.400 in several of your videos

00:14:26.520 of really kind of

00:14:27.360 spelling this out,

00:14:28.460 what they were trying to do

00:14:29.600 is say,

00:14:30.120 listen,

00:14:30.820 we're good with everything

00:14:32.500 up until this latest

00:14:34.620 iteration of it.

00:14:35.660 We think this one's

00:14:36.900 gone too far.

00:14:38.100 Let's get back

00:14:38.680 to 90s liberalism.

00:14:40.420 And maybe there's

00:14:41.040 an argument to that.

00:14:42.240 I don't know.

00:14:43.120 Maybe that's correct.

00:14:44.200 Maybe that's much more

00:14:44.920 achievable than what

00:14:46.220 any of our lofty,

00:14:47.420 you know,

00:14:47.800 like visions for society

00:14:49.260 might be.

00:14:50.020 But nonetheless,

00:14:51.000 that's what that movement was.

00:14:52.800 And I think that became

00:14:54.280 more exposed over time.

00:14:57.640 Yeah.

00:14:58.420 Curtis Yarvin

00:14:59.240 always had this

00:15:00.060 great explanation.

00:15:01.960 We was trying to explain

00:15:03.140 the Cthulhu always swims

00:15:04.380 left slogan that he has.

00:15:06.320 And it's imagine

00:15:07.140 taking Ben Shapiro,

00:15:08.100 who is like the most

00:15:09.000 terrifying right wing

00:15:10.200 pundit your grandma

00:15:11.300 can imagine.

00:15:12.220 Pick him up and drop him

00:15:13.420 into any conservative

00:15:14.600 neighborhood in the 1960s.

00:15:16.920 He's to the left

00:15:17.780 of everyone there.

00:15:18.860 Pick up the most

00:15:19.600 conservative guy

00:15:20.400 in the 1960s

00:15:21.380 and drop him into

00:15:22.120 a neighborhood

00:15:22.700 in the 1890s.

00:15:24.800 He is the most

00:15:25.680 left wing guy there.

00:15:27.060 Something is happening,

00:15:28.240 right?

00:15:28.460 Like that tells you

00:15:30.160 something that it's

00:15:31.360 impossible to imagine,

00:15:32.680 you know,

00:15:33.340 someone from 50 years ago

00:15:34.720 who was a moderate

00:15:35.460 right winger

00:15:36.000 being able to be a

00:15:37.620 dedicated right wing

00:15:38.780 political pundit

00:15:39.720 pretty much in any

00:15:41.000 given era,

00:15:41.600 right?

00:15:42.100 There's a phenomenon

00:15:42.980 occurring there.

00:15:43.880 It's such a good,

00:15:44.500 yes, exactly.

00:15:45.380 And then,

00:15:45.720 and the crazy thing

00:15:46.640 is that someone

00:15:47.400 like Ben Shapiro

00:15:48.140 will say,

00:15:49.080 I'm an Orthodox Jew

00:15:50.800 or they'll,

00:15:51.960 people will say,

00:15:52.520 I'm a constitutional

00:15:53.520 conservative

00:15:54.280 or they'll say,

00:15:55.240 I'm a classical liberal.

00:15:56.420 But again,

00:15:57.240 like as you pointed out,

00:15:58.540 you're talking about

00:15:59.540 like it all

00:16:01.240 Old Testament

00:16:01.880 Orthodox believer?

00:16:03.620 Are you kidding me,

00:16:04.800 dude?

00:16:04.960 You know what your

00:16:05.500 social views should be?

00:16:07.140 That's not just

00:16:07.800 don't eat pork.

00:16:08.800 There's a little bit

00:16:09.540 more to it than that.

00:16:10.640 And again,

00:16:11.720 the,

00:16:11.980 the,

00:16:12.520 you know,

00:16:12.940 the way they talk

00:16:14.660 about,

00:16:15.000 say like,

00:16:15.300 you know,

00:16:15.580 if you remember

00:16:16.040 back in this time

00:16:16.940 that we're talking

00:16:17.820 about like the period

00:16:18.700 around 2017,

00:16:20.120 2018,

00:16:20.660 this was all of them

00:16:22.880 the way they would

00:16:23.400 talk about the alt-right

00:16:24.620 was like they were

00:16:26.060 the worst demons

00:16:27.540 on the planet.

00:16:28.360 Yet,

00:16:29.300 if you're talking

00:16:29.720 about being a

00:16:30.240 constitutional conservative

00:16:32.060 and talking about the,

00:16:33.640 you know,

00:16:33.960 the original intent

00:16:35.300 of the founders,

00:16:36.720 well,

00:16:36.900 who's actually closer

00:16:38.000 to that?

00:16:39.540 And,

00:16:39.860 and again,

00:16:40.400 this is not,

00:16:41.160 I'm not even making

00:16:41.960 an argument necessarily

00:16:43.320 that you ought to be

00:16:45.160 closer to the founders

00:16:46.480 or the classical liberals.

00:16:47.540 I mean,

00:16:47.880 you know,

00:16:48.300 there's pros and cons

00:16:49.860 to that argument,

00:16:50.560 but there's just no question

00:16:51.980 that the dynamic

00:16:52.640 that you're laying out,

00:16:53.460 that Curtis Yarvin

00:16:54.060 was laying out

00:16:54.640 is obviously correct.

00:16:55.760 No,

00:16:56.320 you would be

00:16:56.980 a far left radical

00:16:59.560 in any of these

00:17:01.240 time periods,

00:17:02.280 like the furthest left.

00:17:03.540 You'd be,

00:17:03.820 you'd be indistinguishable

00:17:05.180 from a Marxist

00:17:06.620 to the,

00:17:07.540 the time periods

00:17:08.480 that you're talking about.

00:17:10.120 And I want to be clear

00:17:11.380 again,

00:17:11.860 as you said,

00:17:12.500 you know,

00:17:12.700 not all of these people

00:17:13.600 have aged poorly

00:17:14.540 to his credit.

00:17:15.620 Brett Weinstein came out

00:17:16.940 and said,

00:17:17.580 Hey,

00:17:18.200 you know,

00:17:18.500 you need to be

00:17:19.220 letting people speak.

00:17:20.240 It's not okay

00:17:21.020 to stand around

00:17:21.640 and say,

00:17:21.960 Oh,

00:17:22.000 you're a comedian.

00:17:22.560 So you can't make

00:17:23.360 these comments.

00:17:24.140 And you know,

00:17:25.000 I'm a guy,

00:17:25.640 you know,

00:17:25.860 Jordan Peterson

00:17:26.380 has had a lot of faults.

00:17:27.560 I certainly,

00:17:28.160 you know,

00:17:28.740 I'm not blind to them,

00:17:30.100 but I'm a guy

00:17:30.500 who benefited very directly,

00:17:31.920 like on a very personal level.

00:17:33.440 You know,

00:17:33.600 I lost a wife young

00:17:34.860 and Jordan Peterson's work

00:17:36.320 helped me understand

00:17:37.940 some things

00:17:38.620 that I just did not grasp.

00:17:40.020 His,

00:17:40.340 his debate with Sam Harris

00:17:41.800 over what truth is,

00:17:43.560 ironically,

00:17:44.740 like launched me

00:17:45.500 on a philosophical,

00:17:46.260 you know,

00:17:47.300 quest that I,

00:17:48.300 I have continued

00:17:49.480 to chase down

00:17:50.300 to this day

00:17:51.040 to understand

00:17:51.720 that Peterson

00:17:53.180 was far more right

00:17:54.260 than Harris

00:17:54.740 in that debate.

00:17:55.540 And the fact

00:17:56.020 that that was so

00:17:56.860 uncomprehensible

00:17:58.100 to most classical liberals

00:17:59.320 shows a very serious flaw

00:18:01.260 in that ideology.

00:18:02.600 Like those are things

00:18:03.760 that are really important.

00:18:04.800 So again,

00:18:05.440 I don't want to downplay

00:18:06.700 and just demonize

00:18:07.920 every one of these guys,

00:18:08.780 but I have to say

00:18:09.740 as someone who watched them

00:18:10.980 and frankly,

00:18:12.160 listen to them,

00:18:13.240 you know,

00:18:13.900 just record

00:18:15.060 basically a decade

00:18:16.580 of podcasts

00:18:17.860 about how important

00:18:18.760 free speech is

00:18:19.860 and free inquiry

00:18:20.800 and we have

00:18:21.820 to have conversations

00:18:22.820 and we can't talk

00:18:23.800 about these,

00:18:24.800 you know,

00:18:25.180 deep platforming

00:18:26.020 and censoring people

00:18:27.100 and not having discussions

00:18:28.160 just because the left

00:18:28.860 doesn't want us

00:18:29.300 to have them

00:18:29.640 to watch these guys

00:18:31.420 almost like in order

00:18:32.820 fall in line.

00:18:33.960 And of course,

00:18:34.540 not all of the new ones

00:18:36.080 are part of the original cast.

00:18:38.240 You got guys

00:18:38.700 like Constantine Kissin,

00:18:39.900 guys like Douglas Murray.

00:18:40.880 They were adjacent

00:18:41.640 to this stuff,

00:18:42.400 but they're not,

00:18:42.940 you know,

00:18:43.440 officially or whatever,

00:18:44.780 you know,

00:18:44.960 guys like James Lindsay,

00:18:46.260 you know,

00:18:46.740 they're always in these areas.

00:18:48.340 They're teamed up

00:18:49.140 with guys like Peter Boghossian

00:18:50.440 and these kind of guys,

00:18:51.260 but you know,

00:18:51.980 that legacy,

00:18:53.500 that position

00:18:54.440 continues to persist

00:18:55.680 and to watch each

00:18:56.880 and every one of them

00:18:57.800 almost again,

00:18:58.520 with the exception

00:18:58.980 of a guy like Brett

00:18:59.780 for the most part,

00:19:01.320 line up and be like,

00:19:02.560 Dave Smith

00:19:03.200 should not be allowed

00:19:04.240 to speak in public.

00:19:05.340 Like Joe Rogan,

00:19:06.320 how could you be

00:19:07.040 platforming someone?

00:19:08.480 It's like,

00:19:09.260 what happened to you guys?

00:19:10.660 Do you really think

00:19:11.480 you were going to be able

00:19:12.080 to pull the heel turn

00:19:13.260 and no one would notice?

00:19:14.580 It kind of blows my mind.

00:19:16.220 Like I understand

00:19:16.680 they don't think about

00:19:17.340 this deeply,

00:19:18.040 but still like the,

00:19:19.760 there's a self-awareness

00:19:20.940 that you think

00:19:21.540 would kick in

00:19:22.120 at some time,

00:19:23.040 right?

00:19:24.000 It's,

00:19:24.440 it's really something

00:19:25.580 and then even,

00:19:26.620 right,

00:19:26.800 like even by their own

00:19:28.540 stated principles

00:19:30.340 and their own

00:19:31.240 stated concerns,

00:19:32.660 you go like,

00:19:34.660 well,

00:19:34.860 look,

00:19:35.180 if your big concern

00:19:36.260 was always

00:19:36.980 what's going to bubble up

00:19:38.180 on the reactionary right,

00:19:40.320 well,

00:19:40.620 what do you think

00:19:41.380 the response,

00:19:42.200 it's the same argument,

00:19:43.740 so what do you think

00:19:44.620 this is going to lead to?

00:19:46.260 Do you think

00:19:46.600 you're going to sit here

00:19:47.300 and be like,

00:19:47.680 we are the free speech warriors

00:19:49.320 who believe in nothing

00:19:50.620 but open dialogue

00:19:51.900 and conversations

00:19:52.860 except criticizing Israel?

00:19:55.020 That's the one

00:19:55.720 that you're not allowed

00:19:56.420 to have?

00:19:57.140 Well,

00:19:57.700 gee,

00:19:58.320 or in what,

00:19:58.900 what response

00:19:59.820 do you think

00:20:00.580 like young right-wing guys

00:20:02.260 are going to have to that?

00:20:03.200 It's like,

00:20:03.520 it almost seems like,

00:20:04.640 so it's very strange,

00:20:06.040 you know,

00:20:06.300 I think really,

00:20:07.700 and okay,

00:20:08.420 look,

00:20:08.680 I'm biased obviously here,

00:20:10.340 but I,

00:20:10.780 I do believe

00:20:11.420 that this is true.

00:20:12.260 I think the one

00:20:12.980 who's passed

00:20:13.440 with the most flying collars

00:20:15.440 is Joe Rogan,

00:20:16.540 which is very interesting

00:20:17.460 in a way

00:20:17.820 because you,

00:20:18.460 you could certainly argue

00:20:19.460 in some ways

00:20:19.980 he was like the least

00:20:21.080 intellectual of the,

00:20:23.580 I mean,

00:20:23.840 not,

00:20:24.300 it depends,

00:20:24.800 like if you're counting

00:20:25.520 Dave Rubin,

00:20:26.240 then no,

00:20:26.620 but like compared

00:20:27.120 to Jordan Peterson

00:20:27.860 or Brett Weinstein

00:20:28.700 or something,

00:20:29.200 these are college professors,

00:20:30.920 but he really was the one

00:20:33.180 who throughout

00:20:33.980 all of these stress tests

00:20:35.860 passed

00:20:36.900 with his principles

00:20:38.080 still intact,

00:20:39.280 like he's still the one

00:20:40.260 who wants to have

00:20:40.860 these interesting conversations.

00:20:42.020 He's still the one

00:20:42.960 who's like,

00:20:43.540 no,

00:20:43.700 I'm not going to allow you

00:20:45.040 to draw these arbitrary lines

00:20:46.500 of what's out of bounds

00:20:47.580 and what's not.

00:20:48.360 I can decide for myself

00:20:49.740 if I think someone's

00:20:50.580 an interesting,

00:20:51.260 good faith person

00:20:51.980 and we can talk

00:20:52.720 about this stuff.

00:20:53.600 I do agree with you

00:20:54.460 that I think Brett Weinstein

00:20:55.820 has done a really solid job,

00:20:58.100 but you know,

00:20:59.240 there's been these stress tests

00:21:00.680 over the years

00:21:01.660 and this is really,

00:21:03.060 I think what's happened

00:21:03.660 since the period

00:21:04.580 in,

00:21:05.020 in that,

00:21:06.620 where the intellectual dark web

00:21:07.840 first term

00:21:08.940 first got coined.

00:21:10.260 Um,

00:21:10.880 and you know,

00:21:12.200 this is what stress tests do

00:21:13.860 is you find out

00:21:14.640 what's really going on.

00:21:15.820 Like you might think

00:21:16.780 a building's in pretty good shape,

00:21:18.200 but then you have a stress test

00:21:19.200 and you go,

00:21:19.620 oh,

00:21:19.880 okay,

00:21:20.180 there's actually some issues here.

00:21:21.800 And,

00:21:22.300 uh,

00:21:22.920 the rise of Donald Trump

00:21:24.140 was a big one.

00:21:25.720 Uh,

00:21:26.140 COVID was a huge one.

00:21:28.540 Um,

00:21:29.020 and,

00:21:29.540 and now this,

00:21:30.500 the war in Israel,

00:21:31.680 this is another,

00:21:32.380 or the war,

00:21:33.960 whatever,

00:21:34.320 the,

00:21:34.480 the destruction of Gaza,

00:21:35.600 whatever you want to call it,

00:21:36.560 this is another huge one.

00:21:37.780 And you kind of see

00:21:39.340 one by one,

00:21:41.300 so many,

00:21:42.460 like Sam Harris is Mr.

00:21:44.640 Rationality and,

00:21:45.640 you know,

00:21:46.240 devouted to logical,

00:21:47.940 uh,

00:21:48.600 reasoning.

00:21:49.060 And then,

00:21:49.560 oh,

00:21:50.080 Trump comes along.

00:21:51.280 He's out.

00:21:52.040 He's no longer doing that.

00:21:53.340 It's purely emotional.

00:21:54.600 Ben Shapiro is facts.

00:21:55.880 Don't care about your feelings.

00:21:57.180 Tell Israel's involved.

00:21:58.700 Now feelings are a pretty big deal.

00:22:00.600 You know,

00:22:00.900 it's like you see this happen

00:22:02.160 with so many of them

00:22:03.380 and it's hard,

00:22:04.820 you know,

00:22:05.560 like again,

00:22:07.480 as I'm,

00:22:08.160 I think you'd probably agree

00:22:09.380 with me on this.

00:22:10.040 I think the new atheist thing.

00:22:12.380 So like those,

00:22:13.520 that sliver of it,

00:22:15.660 the Sam Harris wing,

00:22:17.140 I think they failed,

00:22:18.940 uh,

00:22:19.600 as a result of empiricism.

00:22:21.880 I mean,

00:22:22.560 I,

00:22:22.680 I just think that like,

00:22:23.600 we kind of ran that experiment

00:22:25.300 and then,

00:22:26.720 you know,

00:22:27.180 people saw the result of it

00:22:28.600 and then they went,

00:22:29.560 well,

00:22:29.680 this is a disaster.

00:22:30.600 And so then they started

00:22:32.020 re-questioning the,

00:22:33.360 the foundation.

00:22:34.280 And then you realize

00:22:35.020 it was actually,

00:22:35.620 now there was a lot of holes in this

00:22:37.220 and there,

00:22:38.680 and then I think that,

00:22:40.140 um,

00:22:41.400 you know,

00:22:42.040 essentially what ended up happening

00:22:43.900 was that,

00:22:45.260 and this is,

00:22:46.740 it's an interesting dynamic,

00:22:48.020 right?

00:22:48.360 Like it's kind of like

00:22:49.900 it happened to the social justice

00:22:51.120 warriors first

00:22:51.980 and then it happened

00:22:53.180 to the anti-social justice warriors.

00:22:55.220 So the first thing

00:22:55.960 that happened was that

00:22:57.080 these,

00:22:57.940 um,

00:22:58.620 by their very nature,

00:22:59.860 these universities

00:23:00.820 are such bubbles.

00:23:02.240 I mean,

00:23:02.720 they just exist out.

00:23:04.000 People literally say

00:23:05.200 you go to college

00:23:06.280 and then you go to the real world.

00:23:07.720 Like we even conceptually

00:23:09.040 think of it as like

00:23:09.860 not part of the actual world.

00:23:12.280 It's this other thing.

00:23:13.500 It's not a market phenomenon.

00:23:15.120 They'd all go belly up tomorrow.

00:23:16.700 Everybody knows that

00:23:17.700 if they didn't get subsidies,

00:23:18.860 if the loans weren't guaranteed

00:23:20.120 by the government,

00:23:20.840 it's a totally artificial creation

00:23:23.100 in that sense.

00:23:24.340 Um,

00:23:25.120 there's not real demand

00:23:26.300 or real value being added.

00:23:28.460 Professors get tenure.

00:23:29.760 They're surrounded

00:23:30.640 by like-minded people.

00:23:31.980 They never have to battle

00:23:33.160 with their ideas.

00:23:34.360 They never have to battle

00:23:35.520 in any type of marketplace

00:23:36.880 like the way me and you do,

00:23:38.620 the way that like our audience

00:23:40.080 could go away tomorrow.

00:23:41.420 People can just stop watching.

00:23:43.020 We have to keep

00:23:43.840 saying something compelling

00:23:45.420 that makes sense to them

00:23:46.940 in order to get them

00:23:47.580 to keep tuning in.

00:23:48.480 And so you had this environment

00:23:50.440 where the only way

00:23:52.580 that some of these ideas

00:23:53.880 could have taken hold

00:23:54.800 is that they never face pushback.

00:23:56.560 And so then enter Ben Shapiro,

00:24:00.060 enter Jordan Peterson,

00:24:01.740 enter these guys.

00:24:02.340 They can just destroy these kids.

00:24:05.080 But then over the years,

00:24:07.860 you know,

00:24:09.080 their battle was destroying

00:24:12.120 19 year olds

00:24:13.920 who think gender doesn't exist.

00:24:16.200 So like you said,

00:24:17.140 it's not even like we needed

00:24:18.000 Pat Buchanan or Francis

00:24:19.540 or someone like that.

00:24:20.620 Anybody should be able

00:24:22.260 to destroy these arguments.

00:24:24.160 And then there was almost

00:24:24.880 this tremendous atrophy

00:24:27.120 that built up

00:24:28.000 where like,

00:24:29.120 it's like if you were sparring

00:24:30.320 for a big fight

00:24:31.100 and you're just fighting

00:24:31.760 a three-year-old every day.

00:24:33.660 It's like,

00:24:34.040 you're not really getting better.

00:24:35.140 Now are you, dude?

00:24:36.120 You know?

00:24:36.500 So it's like,

00:24:37.480 I think that's part

00:24:38.600 of the dynamic too.

00:24:40.480 And it's been interesting,

00:24:42.680 really interesting

00:24:43.500 to watch that get exposed.

00:24:45.580 Yeah, I want to lay out

00:24:46.840 the way I think

00:24:48.460 this kind of unspooled

00:24:49.300 a little bit

00:24:49.660 and see if you agree with me.

00:24:51.000 But before we do, guys,

00:24:52.020 let's talk a little bit

00:24:52.840 about Blaze TV.

00:24:53.720 Hey guys,

00:24:54.120 if you've been watching

00:24:54.680 this show for a while,

00:24:55.660 then you know that around here

00:24:57.040 we encourage something

00:24:58.080 that conservatives

00:24:58.720 usually don't do.

00:25:00.020 You know, winning.

00:25:01.300 That's why it was so great

00:25:02.280 to see Donald Trump's

00:25:03.420 electoral victory

00:25:04.320 along with the cultural

00:25:05.580 and political momentum

00:25:06.620 that the right just hasn't had

00:25:08.120 in a very long time.

00:25:09.820 But we also know

00:25:10.660 that the fight

00:25:11.140 is far from over

00:25:12.200 and at some point

00:25:12.980 the left will start pushing

00:25:14.280 for censorship again.

00:25:15.900 If you like what I'm doing here

00:25:17.280 and you want to keep it going,

00:25:18.480 then head over to Blaze TV.

00:25:20.160 They have the behind-the-scenes

00:25:21.340 content, exclusives,

00:25:22.780 and documentaries

00:25:23.360 that you're just not going

00:25:24.220 to see anywhere else.

00:25:25.520 And it starts at just

00:25:26.720 $8 a month,

00:25:28.440 basically the price

00:25:29.220 of a fancy coffee,

00:25:30.520 when you use the promo code

00:25:32.020 ORIN at checkout.

00:25:33.420 That's only 26 cents a day

00:25:35.280 to stand with a platform

00:25:36.380 that stands with you.

00:25:37.560 So go to

00:25:38.160 blazetv.com

00:25:39.800 slash ORIN

00:25:40.760 and subscribe today.

00:25:41.980 That's blazetv.com

00:25:44.200 slash ORIN.

00:25:45.500 The promo code

00:25:46.500 is A-U-R-O-N

00:25:48.320 and you'll save

00:25:49.000 20 bucks

00:25:49.640 right now

00:25:50.360 off the annual plan.

00:25:52.500 So in my mind,

00:25:54.100 we had

00:25:54.620 something like

00:25:55.900 an epistemological

00:25:57.120 revolution

00:25:57.800 that was

00:25:58.320 working its way

00:25:59.220 through the American system

00:26:00.420 for a long time.

00:26:01.400 We had the

00:26:02.120 pretty classic

00:26:02.840 understanding of tradition

00:26:03.980 and the ways

00:26:04.980 in which we understood

00:26:05.980 our continuity

00:26:07.040 of the United States

00:26:08.460 and its governance

00:26:09.140 and this kind of thing.

00:26:10.120 But slowly

00:26:11.000 with the Industrial Revolution

00:26:12.560 and modernization,

00:26:13.780 we were moving things

00:26:14.920 into mass managerialism,

00:26:17.180 into bureaucracies,

00:26:18.380 institutions

00:26:19.380 became the critical way

00:26:20.820 to govern

00:26:21.400 all of society.

00:26:22.980 And so

00:26:23.300 every elite

00:26:24.220 kind of needs

00:26:24.740 an inter-elite combat

00:26:25.920 way to like

00:26:26.980 work out

00:26:27.540 who should be on top,

00:26:28.540 right?

00:26:28.680 Like how do I get rid

00:26:29.660 of my opponents

00:26:30.200 or the people

00:26:30.840 who are challenging me

00:26:31.460 and that kind of thing.

00:26:32.480 And so the shift

00:26:33.120 that was occurring

00:26:33.820 for most of our lives

00:26:35.200 was this unspooling

00:26:36.800 of the American tradition,

00:26:38.420 especially Christian tradition,

00:26:39.800 by professionals,

00:26:41.420 by intellectuals

00:26:42.220 and specifically

00:26:42.820 new atheists,

00:26:43.600 obviously like

00:26:44.180 this is what made them

00:26:45.440 kind of gave them

00:26:46.320 their title.

00:26:47.380 And so that was

00:26:47.920 kind of the inter-elite

00:26:48.920 combat of maybe

00:26:50.560 our childhood

00:26:51.200 a little bit before.

00:26:52.120 It was like

00:26:52.420 the Cultural Revolution

00:26:53.640 was running alongside

00:26:55.620 this Intellectual Revolution

00:26:57.140 and I think it ran,

00:26:58.400 the intellectual side

00:26:59.220 ran cover

00:26:59.860 for the actual

00:27:00.440 Cultural Revolution.

00:27:01.360 and most of the people

00:27:02.860 who were running

00:27:03.540 the Intellectual Revolution

00:27:05.280 didn't realize

00:27:06.120 what they were running

00:27:06.820 cover for.

00:27:08.160 So then they got

00:27:08.840 to the emergence

00:27:09.620 of wokeness

00:27:10.480 and all of a sudden

00:27:11.500 now that Christianity

00:27:12.840 is defeated

00:27:13.400 and you don't have

00:27:13.880 to worry about

00:27:14.400 the normal American identity,

00:27:16.300 there needs to be

00:27:17.040 a new mode

00:27:17.660 to cancel

00:27:18.240 your inter-elite

00:27:19.580 opponents.

00:27:20.620 There needs to be

00:27:21.020 a new way

00:27:21.360 to do inter-nacing warfare.

00:27:23.620 And so that becomes

00:27:24.400 the woke Olympics,

00:27:25.700 right?

00:27:25.880 And so all of a sudden

00:27:26.640 all these people

00:27:27.200 had built their reputations

00:27:29.200 on their intellectual credentials

00:27:30.660 and their ability

00:27:31.880 to manage organizations

00:27:32.940 and operate scientifically

00:27:34.360 and all this stuff,

00:27:35.860 all of a sudden

00:27:36.440 they were not qualified

00:27:38.520 to be elites anymore.

00:27:40.320 They were getting canceled.

00:27:41.340 They were losing

00:27:41.860 the inter-elite war

00:27:42.940 because they didn't have

00:27:43.980 the progressive stack.

00:27:45.560 And so they recognized

00:27:46.640 like, okay,

00:27:47.300 panic, panic, panic.

00:27:48.460 What do we do?

00:27:49.480 All right,

00:27:49.940 we need to roll this back.

00:27:51.100 We need to go to the last patch

00:27:52.400 where I was dominant.

00:27:53.780 Oh, crap.

00:27:54.620 I got rid of the like

00:27:55.960 post-Christian stuff

00:27:57.080 that the society

00:27:57.840 was kind of running on

00:27:58.700 and now it's all been

00:27:59.640 replaced by wokeness.

00:28:00.620 So now I have to like

00:28:02.340 James Lindsay myself

00:28:03.380 into telling everybody

00:28:04.220 that wokeness

00:28:04.840 is actually Marxism

00:28:06.000 so we can like

00:28:07.000 go back to that

00:28:08.340 and that can be like

00:28:09.480 the way we cancel

00:28:10.300 those elites

00:28:11.220 and we can return on top.

00:28:12.600 But what they started

00:28:13.180 to recognize

00:28:13.780 as they peeled back

00:28:15.260 and tried to do that

00:28:16.480 is that if they were

00:28:18.680 going to bring Christianity

00:28:19.460 back in,

00:28:20.240 if they were going

00:28:20.560 to bring faith back in,

00:28:22.020 people might start

00:28:23.180 saying stuff

00:28:23.980 that used to be oppressed

00:28:25.500 by their cultural revolution

00:28:27.060 previously

00:28:27.620 and now they have to contend

00:28:29.120 and that's where we get

00:28:29.700 like the woke right garbage

00:28:30.900 is being basically

00:28:31.680 like, oh, the left

00:28:32.560 and the right

00:28:32.940 are both saying

00:28:33.600 the same thing.

00:28:34.380 No, they're just both

00:28:35.060 pointing out the failure

00:28:35.880 of your system.

00:28:37.140 Like that doesn't make

00:28:38.220 them the same thing.

00:28:39.060 They're just pointing out

00:28:39.780 from two sides

00:28:40.840 that you standing there

00:28:42.360 in the middle

00:28:42.760 aloft your tower

00:28:43.900 of, you know,

00:28:44.840 expertise

00:28:45.260 that is insufficient

00:28:46.760 to justify your right

00:28:48.040 to rule

00:28:48.420 and now they're just

00:28:49.360 adrift

00:28:49.980 because they need

00:28:50.680 the institutions

00:28:51.420 to validate

00:28:53.460 their credentials

00:28:54.200 which is what they built

00:28:55.080 their entire reputation on

00:28:56.380 but they also needed

00:28:57.340 to deconstruct

00:28:58.080 the institutions

00:28:58.740 because those institutions

00:28:59.680 had been lost

00:29:00.660 to the woke faction.

00:29:01.880 So they're in this weird

00:29:02.900 simultaneous attempt

00:29:04.000 to like discredit

00:29:05.220 the university

00:29:06.060 while also being like,

00:29:07.480 but I have a university degree.

00:29:08.840 You have to listen

00:29:09.480 to only me

00:29:10.240 and they just don't

00:29:11.660 have anywhere to stand.

00:29:13.380 Yeah, so I think

00:29:14.360 that's exactly right

00:29:15.440 and then I would just,

00:29:16.520 I would add to that

00:29:17.460 that essentially right

00:29:18.560 with the James Lindsay thing,

00:29:19.680 it's just,

00:29:20.660 it's kind of a,

00:29:21.920 first off,

00:29:22.260 there's nothing original

00:29:23.200 or even interesting

00:29:24.380 or thoughtful about it.

00:29:25.580 It's just this thing

00:29:26.620 that centrists do

00:29:28.020 where they try

00:29:28.780 to use horseshoe theory

00:29:30.980 to say that like,

00:29:32.220 oh look,

00:29:32.580 the radical left

00:29:33.260 and the radical right

00:29:34.100 are basically all the same

00:29:35.160 and that's why

00:29:35.660 you got to be

00:29:36.120 in the center with us.

00:29:37.460 The problem is that

00:29:39.040 the essentially right,

00:29:41.480 like the message,

00:29:43.080 and this is the message

00:29:44.120 of the entire corporate media

00:29:45.900 essentially now,

00:29:47.020 right,

00:29:47.220 is that it's like,

00:29:48.160 it's always like,

00:29:49.620 well, you know,

00:29:50.400 look,

00:29:50.640 Bernie Sanders and AOC,

00:29:52.260 I mean,

00:29:52.920 their heart's

00:29:54.020 in the right place,

00:29:54.760 like they're good people

00:29:55.520 but they may take it

00:29:56.400 a little bit too far

00:29:57.500 and then there's

00:29:58.160 the terrifying right wing

00:29:59.580 and Donald Trump

00:30:00.380 who's the enemy

00:30:01.160 and like,

00:30:01.880 why can't we all

00:30:02.720 just meet in the middle

00:30:03.840 with Hillary Clinton

00:30:05.080 and Mitt Romney

00:30:05.960 where we all know

00:30:07.240 everything's good,

00:30:08.060 you know,

00:30:08.520 and the reason,

00:30:09.520 what,

00:30:09.680 the truth is that,

00:30:10.980 and this is one

00:30:11.600 of the major things

00:30:12.720 that's just different

00:30:13.640 about that message

00:30:14.620 actually did resonate

00:30:15.960 pretty reasonably well

00:30:17.920 at a time

00:30:19.500 and that's part

00:30:20.360 of the reason,

00:30:20.880 it's not the complete reason

00:30:21.800 but it's part of the reason

00:30:22.820 why,

00:30:23.620 you know,

00:30:24.540 a lot of those

00:30:25.300 paleo conservatives

00:30:27.520 and paleo libertarians

00:30:28.700 were able to be,

00:30:29.480 you know,

00:30:29.740 kicked out of polite society

00:30:32.140 because,

00:30:32.960 you know,

00:30:33.480 in the 80s and 90s

00:30:34.640 things were functioning

00:30:35.800 reasonably well

00:30:36.980 and when things are

00:30:38.280 functioning reasonably well

00:30:39.580 it's kind of,

00:30:40.320 yeah,

00:30:40.520 most people go,

00:30:41.480 okay,

00:30:41.840 I don't want to be

00:30:42.440 too extreme this way

00:30:43.280 or too extreme that way.

00:30:44.400 The problem is that,

00:30:45.460 like,

00:30:45.920 in addition to all the stuff

00:30:47.100 you're saying,

00:30:48.180 our society

00:30:49.620 is in a state

00:30:50.620 of collapse

00:30:51.300 and I don't think

00:30:53.380 I'm being hyperbolic

00:30:54.240 when I say that.

00:30:54.880 I don't mean that,

00:30:55.520 like,

00:30:55.660 tomorrow we're going

00:30:56.940 to be,

00:30:57.320 you know,

00:30:57.620 having hyperinflation

00:30:58.780 or people are going

00:30:59.460 to be dying

00:30:59.900 in the streets

00:31:00.400 or something

00:31:00.880 but,

00:31:01.400 like,

00:31:01.480 you know,

00:31:02.060 we can't balance

00:31:03.920 our budgets,

00:31:04.440 we can't protect

00:31:05.020 our borders,

00:31:05.680 we can't win

00:31:06.280 our wars,

00:31:07.140 we can't,

00:31:07.620 you know,

00:31:07.800 like,

00:31:08.000 very basic things

00:31:09.560 of how a society

00:31:10.480 functions

00:31:11.000 are not going

00:31:12.120 very well

00:31:12.760 and so in that

00:31:13.900 environment

00:31:14.460 when the establishment

00:31:16.100 has just failed

00:31:17.260 across the board

00:31:18.380 and particularly

00:31:20.700 the conservative movement

00:31:21.800 has,

00:31:22.300 you know,

00:31:22.660 failed to conserve

00:31:23.340 anything,

00:31:24.180 you know,

00:31:25.220 they're happy

00:31:26.660 that they won

00:31:27.620 the fight,

00:31:28.420 I guess,

00:31:28.860 kind of recently

00:31:29.700 on conserving

00:31:31.320 the idea

00:31:32.240 that there are

00:31:32.800 men and women.

00:31:33.940 This is the giant

00:31:34.620 conservative victory

00:31:35.620 of our time,

00:31:36.440 you know,

00:31:36.820 but they haven't

00:31:37.340 conserved the constitution,

00:31:38.780 they haven't conserved

00:31:39.680 Christianity,

00:31:40.740 they haven't conserved

00:31:41.560 tradition,

00:31:42.140 they haven't conserved

00:31:43.440 anything meaningful

00:31:45.500 and so in this moment

00:31:47.720 when the establishment

00:31:48.680 has failed so much,

00:31:50.180 yes,

00:31:50.460 obviously there are

00:31:51.300 left-wing critics

00:31:52.100 and right-wing critics

00:31:53.080 and they might sound

00:31:54.180 somewhat similar

00:31:55.160 at some point

00:31:55.940 when they're talking

00:31:56.720 about what a failure

00:31:57.520 the establishment is

00:31:58.560 but that doesn't

00:31:59.340 prove anything

00:32:00.640 and what's been

00:32:02.400 kind of fascinating

00:32:03.580 in like,

00:32:04.560 okay,

00:32:04.720 so in the case

00:32:05.240 of James Lindsay,

00:32:06.760 who,

00:32:07.580 you know,

00:32:07.940 look,

00:32:08.340 I mean,

00:32:08.560 he's been kind of,

00:32:09.680 you know,

00:32:10.340 he's been trashing me

00:32:11.400 so I don't feel

00:32:12.320 particularly compelled

00:32:13.940 to hold back.

00:32:15.280 I don't even mean this

00:32:16.260 though to be personal.

00:32:17.480 The thing is that like,

00:32:19.380 look,

00:32:19.700 he had some good troll articles

00:32:21.620 that were making fun

00:32:22.660 of the woke left.

00:32:23.560 They were funny.

00:32:24.760 You know,

00:32:25.480 rape culture with dogs

00:32:27.640 at dog parks

00:32:28.480 was funny.

00:32:29.160 So like,

00:32:29.660 that's kind of how

00:32:30.200 he got known

00:32:30.700 but his work is garbage.

00:32:32.740 It's just terrible.

00:32:33.760 Like,

00:32:33.960 all of it is nonsense.

00:32:34.900 The idea that there's been

00:32:35.860 a Marxist takeover

00:32:36.940 of the United States

00:32:37.740 of America,

00:32:38.260 none of this is really

00:32:38.960 addressing what's going on

00:32:40.560 but the thing that's funny

00:32:41.840 about these guys

00:32:42.720 and I think

00:32:43.440 this is part of what

00:32:44.560 Jordan Peterson

00:32:45.140 is running into too

00:32:46.180 although like you,

00:32:46.960 I do have enormous respect

00:32:48.060 for Jordan Peterson

00:32:48.840 and his work

00:32:49.600 but it's like,

00:32:50.520 listen,

00:32:51.060 if we just listen

00:32:52.580 to your work,

00:32:55.240 the logical conclusion

00:32:56.880 of that

00:32:57.580 is to destroy

00:33:00.160 the point you're making

00:33:01.060 right now.

00:33:02.320 James Lindsay,

00:33:02.740 you've been talking

00:33:03.360 about this whole time

00:33:04.420 about how openly racist

00:33:06.540 college campuses are

00:33:07.840 but then you also attack

00:33:09.540 the woke right

00:33:10.380 for acting like

00:33:11.860 they're the victims

00:33:12.600 of discrimination.

00:33:14.420 Well,

00:33:14.900 you've already laid out

00:33:15.940 how they are.

00:33:17.260 Right.

00:33:17.700 Literally your job.

00:33:19.460 Yeah.

00:33:19.880 And then,

00:33:20.720 you know,

00:33:21.380 Jordan Peterson

00:33:21.860 who I will say,

00:33:22.640 by the way,

00:33:23.020 like I did,

00:33:24.000 I did really appreciate

00:33:25.780 that when he was on

00:33:26.920 Rogan's podcast,

00:33:27.600 he gave me like

00:33:28.500 a passing compliment.

00:33:30.000 I mean,

00:33:30.140 he didn't say my name

00:33:30.960 and he didn't harp

00:33:31.520 on it too much

00:33:32.000 but he just said

00:33:32.640 about the debate

00:33:33.460 he went,

00:33:33.760 I thought all three

00:33:34.300 of you did a great job

00:33:35.300 and for someone

00:33:36.320 working at the Daily Wire

00:33:37.480 that's about as good

00:33:38.940 as I could hope for

00:33:40.080 and I do have a lot

00:33:40.900 of respect for Jordan Peterson

00:33:41.840 so I appreciated that

00:33:42.960 but to hear Jordan Peterson

00:33:44.660 launching into this thing

00:33:46.840 about how like

00:33:47.580 the anti-Semites online

00:33:50.500 are psychopaths

00:33:52.760 or I mean,

00:33:53.060 he didn't exactly say that

00:33:54.100 but he certainly nudged at it

00:33:55.580 and it's like,

00:33:56.600 wait,

00:33:56.800 hold on,

00:33:57.140 Jordan Peterson,

00:33:57.820 what happened to speaking

00:33:58.740 to the disaffected young men?

00:34:00.860 What happened to your whole thing

00:34:02.020 being that like,

00:34:02.840 you know,

00:34:03.080 as you start tearing up

00:34:04.300 and getting emotional,

00:34:05.300 whatever happened

00:34:06.020 to speaking for the people

00:34:07.660 without a voice?

00:34:08.460 I thought that was a good thing.

00:34:09.560 It's like,

00:34:10.300 why,

00:34:11.100 I'm Jewish,

00:34:11.860 I don't particularly like

00:34:12.720 the Jew hatred on Twitter

00:34:14.420 but like,

00:34:15.660 those people are people too.

00:34:18.420 I mean,

00:34:18.620 maybe they're led down

00:34:19.780 the wrong path.

00:34:20.680 Isn't your job,

00:34:21.440 Jordan Peterson,

00:34:22.060 to like help them back?

00:34:23.720 Not just label them

00:34:24.780 as psychopaths

00:34:25.720 and dismiss them

00:34:26.400 and then also,

00:34:27.160 by the way,

00:34:27.540 like,

00:34:28.240 if we're looking

00:34:28.740 for psychopathy out there,

00:34:30.220 I mean like,

00:34:30.700 you know,

00:34:32.280 people signing bombs

00:34:33.460 that are about to go

00:34:34.160 drop on children

00:34:34.980 and that might be,

00:34:35.980 that might be a candidate.

00:34:37.140 I'm just saying like,

00:34:37.980 you might,

00:34:38.560 it's possible that they could be,

00:34:40.340 you know,

00:34:40.700 viewed in this light too.

00:34:42.160 So anyway,

00:34:42.700 there's just,

00:34:43.180 you know,

00:34:43.380 all of this stuff,

00:34:44.280 it's,

00:34:44.700 it's,

00:34:45.640 it's,

00:34:46.400 you know,

00:34:46.700 it's,

00:34:47.140 you know,

00:34:47.700 like there's a million memes

00:34:48.720 like this,

00:34:49.180 but it's like,

00:34:49.560 we want free speech,

00:34:50.480 we don't want censorship,

00:34:51.620 but not like that.

00:34:53.780 Not like what we're getting now

00:34:55.080 and that's where we are.

00:34:57.220 So,

00:34:57.360 so for me,

00:34:58.080 it's so strange

00:34:58.800 because you're anti-war

00:35:00.360 in a way that I'm not.

00:35:01.320 Like,

00:35:01.600 I,

00:35:01.800 I think war is a part

00:35:02.940 of human reality.

00:35:04.420 It's,

00:35:04.780 it's,

00:35:04.820 it's,

00:35:05.460 it's part of our greatest highs.

00:35:07.000 It's part of our lowest lows.

00:35:08.460 Trying to get rid of it

00:35:09.320 is like trying to get rid of gender

00:35:11.020 or the state,

00:35:12.040 you know,

00:35:12.500 get that dig in,

00:35:13.300 you know,

00:35:13.740 but like,

00:35:14.300 it's just not going anywhere,

00:35:15.400 right?

00:35:15.720 So like,

00:35:16.220 we should probably figure out

00:35:17.300 the,

00:35:17.540 the proper understanding

00:35:18.720 of that experience personally.

00:35:19.940 That's just,

00:35:20.600 yeah,

00:35:21.020 don't,

00:35:21.260 we don't have to debate that here,

00:35:22.220 but that's just my reflection on it.

00:35:24.200 However,

00:35:25.060 you know,

00:35:25.400 I,

00:35:25.600 I don't want my government.

00:35:27.140 I am at my core,

00:35:28.520 someone who cares about their nation first.

00:35:30.480 That,

00:35:30.760 that is,

00:35:31.660 when we talk about principles,

00:35:33.660 I have the actual conservative principle.

00:35:35.620 I want to conserve my nation.

00:35:36.980 Like,

00:35:37.460 and I don't care ideologically

00:35:38.960 what that looks like.

00:35:39.960 I care about its preservation.

00:35:41.560 And so I don't want to go to war.

00:35:43.760 I don't want to fight people.

00:35:44.760 I don't need to fight

00:35:45.600 for no interest of my own country

00:35:47.040 just because,

00:35:48.760 you know,

00:35:49.400 that,

00:35:49.800 that enriches someone

00:35:50.660 that makes someone happy

00:35:51.600 that fills someone's,

00:35:52.700 you know,

00:35:53.140 political tank.

00:35:54.460 You know,

00:35:54.600 George Washington specifically told us

00:35:56.220 in his farewell address

00:35:57.500 not to have special allies.

00:35:59.860 And he predicted

00:36:00.760 that if we had special allies,

00:36:02.040 it would create division

00:36:02.960 in our own country

00:36:03.800 and that we would seem to favor

00:36:05.660 one side or the other

00:36:06.680 and the political parties

00:36:07.540 would tear each other apart

00:36:08.680 in their rush

00:36:09.620 to support the,

00:36:10.420 the,

00:36:10.680 the great ally

00:36:11.400 and they would forget the needs

00:36:12.380 of the people in our own country.

00:36:13.660 So basically he predicted

00:36:14.960 exactly what has happened

00:36:16.040 in the United States.

00:36:17.060 And so,

00:36:18.580 you know,

00:36:19.120 Israel,

00:36:20.440 Palestine,

00:36:21.160 it's going to be terrible.

00:36:22.520 There,

00:36:22.720 there's two groups of people

00:36:23.560 who want to occupy

00:36:24.140 the same place

00:36:24.960 and guess what happens

00:36:25.760 historically?

00:36:26.900 Genocide,

00:36:27.440 right?

00:36:27.620 And that doesn't mean

00:36:28.240 I support it

00:36:29.020 or I think it's fine,

00:36:30.260 but that's just,

00:36:31.160 if you look at history,

00:36:32.320 there is nothing unique

00:36:33.640 about what is happening here,

00:36:34.820 right?

00:36:35.060 This has all happened before

00:36:36.120 and will all happen again.

00:36:37.340 And honestly,

00:36:38.240 it's someone else's problem.

00:36:40.000 As long as you just stop

00:36:41.200 taking money from my coffers

00:36:42.920 and you stop trying to send

00:36:44.020 my troops to these areas,

00:36:45.880 it's someone else's problem

00:36:46.860 and that's exactly

00:36:47.560 what it should be.

00:36:48.440 And so I'm not as personally,

00:36:50.360 you know,

00:36:51.520 wrapped up in the Israeli-Palestinian

00:36:53.900 conflict as,

00:36:54.760 as other people involved

00:36:55.860 when they talk about this.

00:36:57.000 Maybe that makes me wrong.

00:36:57.860 Maybe that makes me right,

00:36:58.880 but that's just my position.

00:37:00.320 However,

00:37:00.800 when I see these people

00:37:02.160 talking the way they do,

00:37:04.140 that's what concerns me

00:37:05.480 because they're not just

00:37:06.540 talking about that conflict.

00:37:07.740 They want to censor me.

00:37:08.680 They want to censor people like me

00:37:10.560 who are trying to talk about

00:37:11.620 the things and the problems

00:37:12.520 that are happening

00:37:12.940 in the United States.

00:37:14.720 So,

00:37:14.820 so while their,

00:37:15.840 their trigger might be Israel,

00:37:17.380 they're connecting it

00:37:18.340 to everything else

00:37:19.540 that I need to talk about.

00:37:21.360 And so I simply cannot allow

00:37:22.620 them to censor me,

00:37:23.480 especially when I'm watching

00:37:25.120 these people say things like,

00:37:26.920 oh,

00:37:27.020 well,

00:37:27.120 we've never seen this kind

00:37:28.200 of ethnic hatred

00:37:29.040 on camp,

00:37:30.200 college campuses.

00:37:31.420 I'm sorry,

00:37:32.220 what?

00:37:32.740 Like for the last 20 years,

00:37:34.420 it has been basically illegal

00:37:36.160 to be white on a college campus.

00:37:37.780 Like you can,

00:37:38.680 if you can get into the college,

00:37:40.260 then you will receive classes

00:37:41.820 on why your existence

00:37:43.260 is literally evil

00:37:44.880 and you need to be eradicated.

00:37:46.840 That will be like

00:37:47.840 entire college courses

00:37:49.120 will be named

00:37:50.140 on the evil

00:37:50.880 of the European man

00:37:52.420 and his need

00:37:53.220 to be eradicated

00:37:54.120 from our culture.

00:37:54.900 And yet I have to sit here

00:37:56.900 and pretend like we have

00:37:58.080 just never seen

00:37:59.060 this kind of hatred before.

00:38:00.120 Again,

00:38:00.600 I'm fine with getting rid

00:38:01.540 of all of it.

00:38:02.140 I think we should have

00:38:02.740 fired these professors

00:38:03.740 a long time ago.

00:38:04.880 So if you're using it

00:38:05.900 as a pretense

00:38:06.400 to deport somebody

00:38:07.340 who's also a terrorist

00:38:08.340 or something,

00:38:09.020 okay,

00:38:09.580 fine,

00:38:10.020 they shouldn't be here.

00:38:10.620 But why couldn't we have done it

00:38:11.700 when they were attacking Europeans?

00:38:13.680 Like why,

00:38:14.140 why is this specifically

00:38:15.280 only this issue

00:38:16.300 where we trigger it?

00:38:17.080 Again,

00:38:17.400 I'm for getting rid

00:38:18.520 of all of the ethnic hatred

00:38:19.800 on campus.

00:38:20.380 But when you sit here

00:38:21.440 and you just allow that

00:38:22.700 to go on for 20 years

00:38:23.880 and then you turn to me

00:38:24.900 and say,

00:38:25.300 oh,

00:38:25.480 we can change the law

00:38:26.460 on a dime

00:38:27.140 to expel people

00:38:28.040 for having these opinions

00:38:29.060 about another group,

00:38:29.980 I'm like,

00:38:30.200 what happened?

00:38:31.640 Like who,

00:38:32.100 what's going on here?

00:38:33.840 Yeah,

00:38:34.120 dude.

00:38:34.420 I mean,

00:38:34.740 look,

00:38:35.060 I actually think

00:38:35.900 there's a lot,

00:38:37.100 I have a lot of thoughts

00:38:38.240 on this stuff

00:38:39.140 and I would say,

00:38:39.860 I don't think there's actually

00:38:40.600 that much room

00:38:41.480 between us

00:38:42.920 on the issue of war.

00:38:44.300 You know,

00:38:44.680 like I,

00:38:45.920 I agree with you.

00:38:46.820 I have two little children

00:38:48.580 that I am raising

00:38:50.660 in the United States

00:38:51.420 of America

00:38:51.940 and my,

00:38:53.640 not my number one priority,

00:38:55.580 my only priority

00:38:56.740 is the country

00:38:57.980 that they're going

00:38:58.660 to grow up in.

00:38:59.420 Like that's what I care about

00:39:00.780 more than anything else.

00:39:01.900 It's the only thing

00:39:02.820 that should matter

00:39:03.640 and you know,

00:39:04.960 like don't get me wrong,

00:39:06.060 I do think there's like,

00:39:07.260 there's a real moral issue

00:39:08.840 with like the state

00:39:10.660 murdering human beings

00:39:11.700 in other countries

00:39:12.380 and like inflicting

00:39:13.340 with my tax dollars

00:39:14.800 and you know,

00:39:15.780 our country's support

00:39:16.920 or directly our military,

00:39:19.180 like there should,

00:39:20.060 I do believe

00:39:20.680 there should be

00:39:21.160 the absolute highest

00:39:23.080 of bars

00:39:23.820 before you inflict

00:39:25.240 that type of human suffering

00:39:26.380 on any group of people.

00:39:27.960 but like,

00:39:29.560 no,

00:39:29.760 the most important thing

00:39:31.360 is that,

00:39:31.900 and I think like conservatives

00:39:33.100 as you're like taking

00:39:33.980 the real conservative position here,

00:39:35.960 there's,

00:39:36.880 they should put these pieces together.

00:39:38.640 I mean,

00:39:38.840 the two are related.

00:39:40.020 Like George Washington,

00:39:40.940 it's unbelievable

00:39:42.240 how these guys

00:39:43.840 could have been

00:39:44.420 so prescient

00:39:44.940 in their time.

00:39:46.240 And I mean,

00:39:46.920 the quotes

00:39:47.280 of John Quincy Adams

00:39:48.460 where he talks about like,

00:39:49.600 if we go around the world

00:39:50.620 looking for monsters

00:39:51.460 to destroy,

00:39:52.240 we will become

00:39:52.960 the dickatrice

00:39:53.580 of the world

00:39:54.200 but we will lose

00:39:54.920 our own soul.

00:39:56.080 Like,

00:39:56.220 that's an amazing thing

00:39:57.600 to say in the 1780s.

00:39:59.280 Like,

00:39:59.500 it's a crazy thing

00:40:00.320 to even say

00:40:00.840 that we could have been

00:40:01.520 the dictators of the world.

00:40:02.800 Like,

00:40:02.980 where did he even get off

00:40:04.000 imagining this?

00:40:05.080 But like,

00:40:05.380 he was totally right.

00:40:06.620 And look,

00:40:07.720 I mean like,

00:40:08.720 when did the cultural revolution

00:40:10.140 and the sexual revolution,

00:40:11.720 like,

00:40:11.860 when did it really take off?

00:40:13.700 It was during the Vietnam War.

00:40:15.620 You know,

00:40:15.920 and then like,

00:40:16.400 when did,

00:40:16.800 when did all of this wokeism

00:40:18.260 like truly explode?

00:40:19.420 It was in the wake

00:40:20.060 of the wars on terrorism.

00:40:21.160 Like,

00:40:21.680 there is a connection

00:40:22.900 between like,

00:40:24.260 your collective soul

00:40:25.500 and embarking on

00:40:26.800 mass murder campaigns

00:40:27.920 when you're in the wrong.

00:40:29.920 You know,

00:40:30.160 it's a little,

00:40:30.620 it's different

00:40:31.100 when you're in the right

00:40:32.060 and there are just wars.

00:40:33.260 Like,

00:40:33.760 you know,

00:40:34.260 for another episode

00:40:35.500 we could talk about this.

00:40:36.640 But like,

00:40:37.180 when you're in the wrong

00:40:38.320 and it becomes very clear

00:40:39.580 to your society

00:40:40.600 that your government

00:40:41.500 is inflicting

00:40:42.260 this level of human suffering

00:40:43.560 on people

00:40:44.120 and it's not justified,

00:40:45.300 that tears apart

00:40:47.040 like,

00:40:47.840 the tradition

00:40:48.380 and the customs

00:40:49.280 and the,

00:40:50.140 the pride

00:40:51.460 that you need to feel

00:40:52.780 in order,

00:40:53.420 in your society

00:40:54.360 in order to keep it great.

00:40:56.540 And so,

00:40:57.660 you know,

00:40:58.420 again,

00:40:59.500 I think just like

00:41:00.340 after looking at the terror wars

00:41:02.360 and what a disaster,

00:41:03.680 what a catastrophe

00:41:04.640 they've been,

00:41:05.400 not just for the countries

00:41:06.380 that we destroyed,

00:41:07.200 but for our own country,

00:41:08.360 the idea that we're flirting

00:41:09.960 with another war,

00:41:11.320 I mean,

00:41:11.560 one right now in Yemen

00:41:12.720 and then another one in Iran

00:41:14.140 on the horizon

00:41:14.800 when we just clearly

00:41:15.760 don't need to fight these wars.

00:41:17.260 These countries pose

00:41:18.000 no threat to us.

00:41:18.960 Nobody can even dream,

00:41:20.280 they don't even have propaganda

00:41:21.380 like they did

00:41:22.120 with the Iraq war

00:41:22.980 that says,

00:41:23.880 this guy has a nuclear weapon

00:41:25.360 and he's in bed

00:41:26.160 with a terrorist

00:41:26.800 who's got,

00:41:27.140 they don't even have a line

00:41:28.260 that makes you think

00:41:29.460 they support,

00:41:30.540 there's a threat to us.

00:41:32.360 We're doing this

00:41:32.980 on behalf of a foreign country

00:41:34.360 and like,

00:41:35.420 you have to be allowed

00:41:36.300 to say that.

00:41:37.200 And then,

00:41:37.640 the only other thing

00:41:38.380 that I'll say to this

00:41:39.560 and I just think it's like,

00:41:41.180 it's like the level

00:41:42.400 of dishonesty

00:41:43.320 is so intense

00:41:44.400 that of course

00:41:45.380 it can't stand.

00:41:46.200 And this is part

00:41:47.060 of the reason

00:41:47.440 why the reaction

00:41:48.480 against Douglas Murray

00:41:50.460 and Ben Shapiro

00:41:51.160 is what it is.

00:41:52.440 But like,

00:41:53.220 look like,

00:41:54.400 okay,

00:41:55.560 like dude,

00:41:56.140 the issue that animates

00:41:57.360 you the most

00:41:58.020 is keeping your country great.

00:42:00.000 Like,

00:42:00.480 that's just clearly true.

00:42:02.060 I had consumed

00:42:02.720 enough of your content.

00:42:03.720 That's clearly true.

00:42:04.480 If I were to say that to you,

00:42:05.980 you wouldn't like

00:42:06.620 get defensive

00:42:07.440 and start saying,

00:42:08.320 where did you come up with that?

00:42:09.520 You'd just go like,

00:42:10.320 yeah,

00:42:10.460 that's the issue

00:42:11.040 that animates me the most.

00:42:11.940 The issue that animates me the most

00:42:13.720 is like,

00:42:14.540 you know,

00:42:15.100 opposition to wars,

00:42:17.320 opposition to government corruption,

00:42:18.560 opposition to the COVID regime.

00:42:19.920 If you were to say that to me,

00:42:21.080 I don't get defensive

00:42:21.900 and start like lying

00:42:23.080 or say that's a libel

00:42:24.420 or something like that.

00:42:25.780 It's just like,

00:42:26.260 that's the issue

00:42:27.240 that animates Barry Weiss

00:42:28.580 and Ben Shapiro the most

00:42:29.780 is Israel.

00:42:31.040 This is a fact.

00:42:32.380 And like,

00:42:32.960 I don't even know.

00:42:33.580 It's so obvious.

00:42:34.680 It's like,

00:42:35.520 it's on the,

00:42:36.300 I don't know.

00:42:37.180 It's as obvious

00:42:37.800 as a dude in a dress

00:42:38.860 is actually a dude.

00:42:39.980 This is obvious.

00:42:41.000 And for them to even,

00:42:42.900 and I'm like,

00:42:43.420 look,

00:42:43.620 that's fine.

00:42:44.600 You have a right to feel that way.

00:42:46.900 But at the same time,

00:42:49.000 like people who care about this country

00:42:51.000 might also recognize that like,

00:42:53.120 I don't believe this is your biggest priority.

00:42:55.380 I mean,

00:42:55.620 look at Ben Shapiro

00:42:56.540 when he was celebrating

00:42:57.860 and he caveated it a little bit,

00:42:59.620 but he was celebrating

00:43:00.900 that,

00:43:01.900 um,

00:43:03.300 that,

00:43:03.700 uh,

00:43:04.180 uh,

00:43:04.520 Assad

00:43:05.000 had fallen.

00:43:07.200 Assad,

00:43:07.720 the dictator

00:43:10.260 who shaves his chin

00:43:11.780 and wears a three-piece suit

00:43:13.440 and pretty reasonably

00:43:15.200 protects the Christians

00:43:16.260 in Syria

00:43:16.900 had fallen

00:43:17.900 and the country's fallen

00:43:19.540 into the hands of

00:43:20.480 Al-Qaeda,

00:43:21.680 actual enemies

00:43:22.600 of the American people,

00:43:23.640 like not enemies

00:43:24.980 of the American government,

00:43:25.920 enemies of the American people.

00:43:27.460 That's who's taken over the country.

00:43:29.040 The Amir

00:43:29.900 of Al-Qaeda in Syria

00:43:31.540 is now running Syria.

00:43:32.980 And Ben Shapiro goes,

00:43:34.360 this is great

00:43:35.060 because we broke up

00:43:36.560 the Shiite Crescent

00:43:37.660 and now weapons

00:43:39.260 are not going to be

00:43:40.120 easily transferred

00:43:41.060 from Iran

00:43:42.060 through Syria

00:43:43.400 into Lebanon.

00:43:44.860 And you're like,

00:43:45.820 yeah,

00:43:46.520 that sure does sound

00:43:47.760 like a win

00:43:48.500 for the middle part

00:43:49.420 of North America.

00:43:51.100 Well,

00:43:51.220 Nebraska,

00:43:51.940 Nebraska is very concerned

00:43:53.380 about this.

00:43:54.160 You know,

00:43:54.420 people in Utah

00:43:55.620 are constantly worried

00:43:56.640 about the weapons

00:43:57.460 pouring into Lebanon,

00:43:58.440 you know.

00:43:58.780 And like,

00:43:59.340 meanwhile,

00:43:59.960 while all of this

00:44:00.660 is going on,

00:44:01.380 our country is

00:44:02.180 $36 trillion in debt.

00:44:04.300 Our currency

00:44:04.860 has been tremendously

00:44:06.120 devalued

00:44:07.020 to the point

00:44:07.500 that it is

00:44:08.220 next to impossible

00:44:09.600 for the average

00:44:11.240 blue-collar young man

00:44:12.600 to support a family.

00:44:15.060 The cost of living

00:44:16.560 and health care

00:44:17.320 and groceries

00:44:18.020 has gone through the roof.

00:44:19.640 Our country

00:44:20.080 has been flooded

00:44:21.140 by uninvited.

00:44:22.740 You know,

00:44:22.900 I don't like using

00:44:23.540 the term invasion

00:44:24.420 because I think

00:44:24.860 that does bring up

00:44:25.960 an image

00:44:26.420 that isn't exactly wrong.

00:44:27.500 I also don't like

00:44:27.980 using the term genocide

00:44:28.960 as I just think

00:44:29.760 people have different

00:44:30.620 ideas about

00:44:31.260 what that term means.

00:44:32.700 But like,

00:44:34.380 tens of millions

00:44:35.100 of trespassers,

00:44:36.500 however you want

00:44:37.440 to describe it,

00:44:38.180 uninvited people

00:44:39.240 who the domestic

00:44:40.400 population does not

00:44:41.280 want here.

00:44:42.240 Every institution,

00:44:44.280 every tradition

00:44:45.080 has been tremendously

00:44:46.340 degraded.

00:44:47.660 And so,

00:44:48.160 yeah,

00:44:48.360 I think it's reasonable

00:44:49.160 for people to be resentful

00:44:50.600 of somebody prioritizing

00:44:52.080 a foreign country

00:44:53.360 over our own.

00:44:54.940 And I think they should

00:44:55.540 just be honest about that.

00:44:58.400 I know we haven't

00:45:00.140 really even touched

00:45:00.900 that much

00:45:01.320 on the actual appearance,

00:45:02.760 but I did want

00:45:03.860 to talk about that

00:45:04.440 just a little bit.

00:45:05.360 Oh,

00:45:05.460 and guys,

00:45:05.780 I should say

00:45:06.220 this is a prerecord.

00:45:07.300 So if you're doing

00:45:08.200 super chats,

00:45:08.780 thank you very much

00:45:09.380 for supporting the show.

00:45:10.140 But obviously,

00:45:10.660 we won't be able

00:45:11.140 to respond to those today.

00:45:13.300 However,

00:45:14.140 you know,

00:45:15.000 in the debate itself,

00:45:16.220 and again,

00:45:16.760 a lot of it was about

00:45:18.160 the issue of the war

00:45:19.360 in Israel

00:45:19.820 and to the extent

00:45:20.920 that that's,

00:45:21.540 you know,

00:45:21.780 something you're

00:45:22.200 passionate about,

00:45:22.920 by all means,

00:45:23.580 you guys engaged in that.

00:45:24.720 And hilariously,

00:45:25.620 I think that's where

00:45:26.180 Murray at least

00:45:27.120 sounded somewhat,

00:45:28.200 you know,

00:45:28.900 engaged because,

00:45:30.120 you know,

00:45:30.380 he was at least

00:45:30.840 making his case

00:45:31.620 on the actual topic.

00:45:32.880 But it was a very

00:45:34.340 bizarre moment

00:45:35.180 that on a show

00:45:37.740 with a comedian

00:45:38.780 and a man who is,

00:45:42.440 as far as I understand,

00:45:43.740 a journalist,

00:45:44.740 like that's about

00:45:45.960 the level of credential

00:45:46.860 he has,

00:45:48.020 all of a sudden

00:45:48.820 is like,

00:45:49.400 well,

00:45:49.700 why aren't you

00:45:50.540 only talking to experts?

00:45:51.800 And,

00:45:52.200 you know,

00:45:53.140 that's its own

00:45:54.140 ridiculous exchange.

00:45:55.640 But the more absurd

00:45:56.700 thing came after

00:45:57.700 when all of a sudden

00:45:58.480 guys like Constantine

00:45:59.320 Kissing were like,

00:46:00.300 yes,

00:46:00.540 of course,

00:46:01.040 comedians should never

00:46:02.380 give their opinion

00:46:03.340 on politics.

00:46:06.460 As the former comedian

00:46:07.700 then goes on

00:46:08.500 to give an hour long,

00:46:09.540 you know,

00:46:09.980 discussion on politics.

00:46:11.180 It was just so blatant.

00:46:13.500 Like,

00:46:13.680 it's having one court jester

00:46:15.600 lecture another court jester

00:46:17.480 about why they aren't

00:46:18.680 being more absurd

00:46:19.400 about the absurd system

00:46:20.720 that both of them

00:46:21.540 have been making fun of

00:46:22.920 for the last few years.

00:46:24.400 I just don't understand

00:46:25.500 how they thought

00:46:26.020 that that would come off,

00:46:27.000 that that would work,

00:46:27.840 that we're just going

00:46:28.640 to make this like

00:46:29.320 really clumsy,

00:46:30.300 you know,

00:46:31.380 appeal to experts

00:46:32.080 and each one coming in,

00:46:33.800 you know,

00:46:34.480 Gadsad and then Jordan Peterson,

00:46:35.940 each one demanding

00:46:36.660 like more and more like,

00:46:38.120 well,

00:46:38.180 maybe everyone who disagrees

00:46:39.940 with this is ontologically evil.

00:46:41.740 Maybe they don't,

00:46:42.260 you know,

00:46:42.360 it's like,

00:46:42.920 like,

00:46:43.560 can you guys just hit

00:46:44.400 every leftist argument

00:46:45.580 on the way down the tree?

00:46:46.880 Is that,

00:46:47.360 are we maximizing that?

00:46:48.660 Because you're,

00:46:49.120 you're doing an impressive job.

00:46:50.720 Well,

00:46:51.080 and,

00:46:51.220 and then,

00:46:51.920 right,

00:46:52.160 I mean,

00:46:52.360 Dave Rubin said the same thing

00:46:54.120 the other day about,

00:46:55.760 oh,

00:46:55.820 these comedians

00:46:56.620 who pose as experts

00:46:57.700 or something.

00:46:58.320 You're like,

00:46:58.540 wait,

00:46:58.780 what?

00:46:59.620 Are you got like,

00:47:00.080 this is too cartoonish

00:47:01.920 for me to even,

00:47:02.660 like,

00:47:02.800 I can't even believe

00:47:03.360 this is happening

00:47:04.140 in front of me.

00:47:04.880 And then also,

00:47:06.540 you know,

00:47:06.800 as I,

00:47:07.120 you do notice,

00:47:07.960 like,

00:47:08.520 they,

00:47:08.980 oh,

00:47:09.300 just a lot of the same tactics

00:47:10.860 that were used on them

00:47:12.320 that they complained so much about

00:47:14.400 are,

00:47:14.880 they turn around

00:47:15.480 and use them right away.

00:47:16.600 I mean,

00:47:16.920 even Jordan,

00:47:17.740 again,

00:47:18.200 somebody I do really respect,

00:47:19.900 but he goes off on this whole thing

00:47:21.580 about how really the takeaway

00:47:23.620 from the debate with me

00:47:26.460 and Douglas is,

00:47:27.100 you start asking yourself,

00:47:28.080 like,

00:47:28.240 well,

00:47:28.460 how,

00:47:28.960 how do we figure out

00:47:30.200 how to put these guardrails up?

00:47:31.720 And how do we decide

00:47:32.760 who has to be kept out

00:47:34.120 and who's allowed in?

00:47:35.260 And then he goes off on a thing

00:47:36.200 and he,

00:47:36.580 he names the Groypers

00:47:38.420 and then has this whole thing,

00:47:40.360 like going after that,

00:47:41.080 except the issue is that like,

00:47:43.500 none of the Groypers have ever been

00:47:44.780 on the Joe Rogan experience.

00:47:46.960 He's never had Nick Fuentes on.

00:47:48.920 He's never had it.

00:47:49.400 So why are we even talking about that?

00:47:51.180 Like,

00:47:51.520 oh no,

00:47:51.880 you're just doing the same thing

00:47:53.560 that they did to you,

00:47:55.180 right?

00:47:55.660 They'd always like,

00:47:56.500 whenever they were going after Jordan Peterson,

00:47:58.200 they'd be like,

00:47:58.580 well,

00:47:58.720 look at all these white nationalists.

00:48:00.360 And some of them might be fans of his.

00:48:02.980 And he'd be like,

00:48:03.580 I have nothing to do with that.

00:48:04.780 But now you're doing the same thing back to them.

00:48:08.080 And,

00:48:08.560 you know,

00:48:08.960 as far as the actual debate,

00:48:11.580 I mean,

00:48:11.880 I thought,

00:48:12.420 you know,

00:48:13.200 I thought there was obviously the,

00:48:15.180 the best example in the thing was when I just,

00:48:17.680 I brought up that,

00:48:18.660 uh,

00:48:19.600 uh,

00:48:20.240 general Wesley Clark had said that the plans for all of these wars originated in Paul Wolfowitz's argument.

00:48:25.700 And then his whole response to me was that I really shouldn't say Paul Wolfowitz because that might lead to people.

00:48:32.220 It was an amazing moment.

00:48:33.680 You can't,

00:48:34.060 you can't talk about someone who might have a Jewish last name because therefore you must be smearing all the Jews.

00:48:40.340 So you can't criticize literally your position,

00:48:43.960 you know,

00:48:45.460 Douglas Murray.

00:48:46.400 No one can criticize anyone.

00:48:48.660 It's like this sacred set apart people that no one can,

00:48:52.700 no one is allowed to ever criticize because at some point someone hated them.

00:48:56.760 And therefore you might make that connection.

00:48:59.520 Like that's really going to be your position in perpetuity,

00:49:01.820 which also look,

00:49:03.380 it's first of all,

00:49:04.180 it's just like woke nonsense.

00:49:06.060 Um,

00:49:06.520 second of all,

00:49:07.260 it's a very convenient excuse to,

00:49:09.420 by the way,

00:49:09.800 if you go back and listen to that debate,

00:49:11.260 what was his response to that?

00:49:13.240 Oh yeah,

00:49:13.760 no,

00:49:13.900 he never see the actual thing we were arguing is that he said that,

00:49:17.860 um,

00:49:18.320 I mean,

00:49:18.820 look,

00:49:19.480 I was trying to,

00:49:20.660 I mean,

00:49:21.260 we can Joe,

00:49:22.300 Joe really wanted it to be respectful and not devolve into,

00:49:25.520 you know,

00:49:26.100 like a Pierce Morgan type show and out of respect to,

00:49:29.360 Joe and to the institution that is the Joe Rogan experience.

00:49:32.880 I was not going to like go against his wishes on that.

00:49:36.060 So I would,

00:49:36.940 but like,

00:49:37.560 you know,

00:49:37.940 Douglas Murray just lied through his teeth and said,

00:49:39.580 he didn't really support the,

00:49:40.680 he's goes,

00:49:41.240 I was very iffy about the war in Libya.

00:49:43.040 Like,

00:49:43.420 no,

00:49:43.660 he wasn't.

00:49:44.180 He was totally supportive of it.

00:49:45.420 Just like all the other wars.

00:49:46.540 But the point was,

00:49:47.900 he goes,

00:49:48.840 Libya was,

00:49:50.020 um,

00:49:50.560 a humanitarian intervention because we were all very concerned.

00:49:53.000 Uh,

00:49:53.520 Gaddafi was about to go genocidal.

00:49:54.840 And then I was like,

00:49:55.820 okay,

00:49:56.240 well explain this to me.

00:49:57.380 Why is it that 10 years earlier,

00:49:59.600 the four-star general is telling me he had already seen the plans drawn up

00:50:03.620 and that we were going to go overthrow Gaddafi.

00:50:06.000 Like,

00:50:06.160 so how does that mean?

00:50:07.000 And you know what his response to that was?

00:50:08.520 Oh,

00:50:08.900 that's right.

00:50:09.160 He didn't have one.

00:50:10.040 He just effectively used that to,

00:50:12.300 you know,

00:50:12.860 change the conversation over to,

00:50:14.840 but look,

00:50:15.620 even by it's just like,

00:50:18.440 it's so not true.

00:50:19.800 He's also wrong about that.

00:50:21.600 And this is something that people disagree with me about,

00:50:23.880 but I'm very convinced that I'm right.

00:50:25.560 But I think if you're,

00:50:27.180 if the argument is this could lead to Jew hatred,

00:50:29.920 I think actually what Douglas Murray is saying leads to a lot more Jew hatred

00:50:35.240 than what I'm saying.

00:50:36.360 I think saying that there are Jewish powerful people who you cannot criticize

00:50:40.800 is going to lead to a lot more Jew hatred than me saying like,

00:50:44.920 no,

00:50:45.080 this one very powerful person who happens to have a Jewish last name.

00:50:47.480 I wasn't connecting it to his Jewish identity or anything like that.

00:50:50.620 Although,

00:50:51.240 you know,

00:50:51.760 it's not that it's completely removed.

00:50:53.360 There's a,

00:50:53.640 there's a reason why the neoconservatives were very dominated by Jewish intellectuals.

00:50:57.560 And they were very,

00:50:58.740 as they all would say in their own words,

00:51:00.760 very loyal to Israel.

00:51:02.540 Now that doesn't implicate Barry,

00:51:05.220 the accountant down the street,

00:51:06.640 but that,

00:51:07.420 that is the truth.

00:51:08.700 And I think that,

00:51:09.600 you know,

00:51:09.860 look,

00:51:10.120 this was also the kind of Jordan Peterson insight from those early days that we started talking about.

00:51:16.880 And I think,

00:51:17.480 you know,

00:51:17.900 however you feel about Sigmund Freud,

00:51:20.120 I do think that he had a very astute foundational insight,

00:51:26.200 which is that when you repress something,

00:51:28.640 it reemerges in an uglier fashion.

00:51:32.080 And if you think about just like,

00:51:33.760 just like say the way,

00:51:34.960 the way gender roles were kind of like repressed,

00:51:40.720 right?

00:51:40.900 Like the,

00:51:41.380 like you're talking about in the cultural revolution and stuff like that,

00:51:43.900 like kind of natural organic gender roles were totally repressed.

00:51:47.580 And you are not allowed the worst thing in the world you can be as a sexist.

00:51:50.680 And the worst thing you could be is someone who wants their wife to stay home and raise their kids or something like that.

00:51:55.200 Or you want to be the boss of your house.

00:51:57.100 And then,

00:51:57.680 okay,

00:51:57.820 you go,

00:51:58.080 that's totally repressed.

00:51:59.340 We beat this out of society.

00:52:00.560 And now look at internet porn.

00:52:03.780 Like,

00:52:04.200 what are,

00:52:04.640 what are you looking at right there?

00:52:06.360 The most vile domination of male domination,

00:52:11.380 degrading women.

00:52:12.400 And like the most horrible fucking way.

00:52:15.080 And so,

00:52:15.460 or sorry if I'm not supposed to curse,

00:52:16.900 uh,

00:52:17.160 in the most horrible way.

00:52:18.400 And so it's like,

00:52:19.420 you,

00:52:19.660 you do,

00:52:20.080 you see this constantly and it's the same thing.

00:52:22.180 So like,

00:52:22.860 first up,

00:52:23.220 he completely dodged the actual point,

00:52:26.000 dodged the actual debate.

00:52:27.180 And then he makes this other point and he's not even right about the other point.

00:52:30.240 It's totally ridiculous.

00:52:31.700 The,

00:52:31.840 just the same dumb woke nonsense.

00:52:34.520 Um,

00:52:35.000 but I will say that I guess,

00:52:36.580 I'm sorry if I'm rambling too long here,

00:52:38.600 but the thing that I will say,

00:52:40.540 cause I'm,

00:52:41.080 as you know,

00:52:42.100 I'm like a,

00:52:42.780 uh,

00:52:43.120 you know,

00:52:43.400 I'm a libertarian,

00:52:44.860 uh,

00:52:45.460 you know,

00:52:46.400 autist,

00:52:46.880 but like I'm a day walker.

00:52:48.180 So I'm like half,

00:52:49.440 I'm half libertarian autistic.

00:52:51.100 You know,

00:52:51.300 like I make the libertarians a little bit less autistic and I try to make everybody else a little bit more autistic.

00:52:56.020 That's like my role in this,

00:52:57.500 but I will tell you,

00:52:58.740 it was totally my libertarian autistic side that I,

00:53:01.060 and my naivete that I just got fooled.

00:53:03.000 I thought we were showing up to debate Ukraine and Gaza.

00:53:06.580 Like that's really what I thought it was going to be.

00:53:08.520 And I was totally not,

00:53:10.020 I did not at all think that it would become what it became where it was this comment on the podcasters versus the expert class.

00:53:17.540 And honestly,

00:53:18.640 I just thought all these guys,

00:53:21.300 Constantine Kassin and,

00:53:22.580 and Douglas,

00:53:23.780 the people who are rushing to defend him on this,

00:53:25.640 it was almost like once he did that ago,

00:53:28.100 you just,

00:53:28.840 you just turned the entire audience against you.

00:53:32.500 Like the,

00:53:33.280 the whole thing,

00:53:34.380 the foundational principle of why we're listening to the Joe Rogan experience to begin with is that we don't agree with that.

00:53:40.580 We think that's BS.

00:53:42.840 And of course,

00:53:44.420 you know,

00:53:45.800 after they,

00:53:46.980 they have no leg to stand on.

00:53:48.520 I'm sorry,

00:53:49.140 but just like objectively,

00:53:50.580 like somebody was going through the other day,

00:53:53.640 somebody online was like,

00:53:54.800 here's some things that Dave gets wrong.

00:53:56.740 Cause he says that he wants you to take on his,

00:53:59.140 his argument.

00:53:59.660 And there was a long Twitter thread going back throughout my career of these little details that I've gotten wrong.

00:54:05.920 And there were like five of them.

00:54:07.400 And I think like three of them,

00:54:08.380 I did get wrong.

00:54:09.360 The other two,

00:54:10.040 I did not.

00:54:10.600 And they just had wrong,

00:54:11.440 but like whatever,

00:54:12.360 but it's like,

00:54:12.720 okay,

00:54:12.960 you could go through anybody's career and find like little things they've gotten wrong.

00:54:15.760 What has Douglas Murray gotten wrong?

00:54:18.020 Iraq,

00:54:18.620 Afghanistan,

00:54:19.620 Libya,

00:54:20.280 Syria,

00:54:20.940 Ukraine,

00:54:21.800 COVID.

00:54:22.360 Like how many things can you get wrong before you don't get to appeal to your expertise?

00:54:28.460 And I feel like I feel like after you write neoconservatism and why we need it,

00:54:33.780 she's going to be the show.

00:54:36.280 Yeah.

00:54:36.760 And,

00:54:37.080 and I,

00:54:37.400 I got to say that the,

00:54:38.640 the,

00:54:38.880 the other like standout moment for me,

00:54:40.760 the one that just really like lit me on fire was when,

00:54:44.100 you know,

00:54:44.660 he's,

00:54:44.920 he's like,

00:54:45.320 oh,

00:54:45.500 well,

00:54:45.660 you've never been to this part of the world.

00:54:47.860 And you're like,

00:54:48.680 okay,

00:54:48.960 but you are literally insulting the work of a Daryl Cooper,

00:54:52.900 a man who you've never heard the work of.

00:54:54.980 And he's like,

00:54:55.240 well,

00:54:55.340 I don't need to listen to it.

00:54:56.820 Yeah.

00:54:57.820 What is going on here?

00:54:59.880 And I mean,

00:55:00.520 I did,

00:55:01.100 you know,

00:55:02.680 I,

00:55:03.000 I kind of held in my back pocket and maybe I should have been like a little bit more

00:55:06.900 aggressive,

00:55:07.800 like personal and that where it should have been like,

00:55:10.220 Hey dude,

00:55:10.460 if you're like,

00:55:10.880 actually,

00:55:11.260 if you're not attacking my arguments and you're just attacking me,

00:55:14.600 then maybe I should have gone back to him.

00:55:16.220 But like,

00:55:17.260 you know,

00:55:18.120 riddle me this and internet,

00:55:19.800 any,

00:55:20.060 anybody who's listening.

00:55:21.100 And I know there,

00:55:21.660 there might be some people in the audience of your show who are like more lean toward his

00:55:25.980 side,

00:55:26.420 particularly on the Israel issue,

00:55:27.640 not so much on Ukraine,

00:55:28.560 but like,

00:55:29.100 but there might be some people who like,

00:55:31.000 don't exactly agree with me,

00:55:32.280 but just explain to me the logic of this.

00:55:34.480 So you're telling me that I'm obligated since I'm talking about Israel a lot,

00:55:40.920 I should have the courtesy to go there.

00:55:42.820 He's not exactly saying I can't talk about it unless I go there,

00:55:45.620 but like you're talking a lot about Israel,

00:55:47.760 but you've never been.

00:55:49.100 Okay.

00:55:49.260 So that's,

00:55:50.180 that's a problem.

00:55:51.200 But yet somebody who's advocated for every single war and served in none gets to advocate

00:55:58.660 for the next war.

00:56:00.100 Explain that one to me.

00:56:01.580 Like that was,

00:56:02.740 by the way,

00:56:03.360 Daryl Cooper was in the military.

00:56:04.960 So while he's sitting here,

00:56:06.300 this guy,

00:56:06.740 by the way,

00:56:07.060 he was,

00:56:07.700 what was he?

00:56:08.620 23 Douglas Murray,

00:56:10.000 when he first started writing his pro war books,

00:56:12.380 he was of military age.

00:56:14.060 He's still an able-bodied man.

00:56:15.620 Never served in one of these conflicts.

00:56:17.980 As I always love pointing out,

00:56:19.880 you know,

00:56:20.080 in 2008 and in 2012,

00:56:22.740 the candidate who got more money from active duty military than every other candidate combined,

00:56:29.500 including Barack Obama,

00:56:30.760 was Ron Paul.

00:56:32.080 And you know,

00:56:32.400 who got more money from active duty military in 2016,

00:56:35.140 2020,

00:56:35.880 and 2024?

00:56:37.240 Donald Trump.

00:56:38.300 The military guys themselves,

00:56:40.080 who are blowing their brains out by the tens of thousands,

00:56:43.000 are supporting the candidates who say,

00:56:45.220 stop pushing Douglas Murray's foreign policy.

00:56:47.940 And like,

00:56:48.440 so I'm sorry,

00:56:49.680 but like,

00:56:50.240 that's crazy that he,

00:56:51.400 he would play that card with me when he's a war,

00:56:55.100 when he's a chicken hawk.

00:56:56.420 And aside from that,

00:56:57.460 it's just,

00:56:57.860 as I said,

00:56:58.260 it's just a non-argument.

00:56:59.540 Again,

00:57:00.060 this is like telling someone,

00:57:01.420 this is like signing up to fight someone,

00:57:03.320 and then explaining to them that you've trained so much harder than them.

00:57:07.320 Like,

00:57:07.440 okay,

00:57:07.600 so demonstrate it then.

00:57:08.960 So then like demonstrate that you have this insight into the region that I don't have.

00:57:12.920 And by the way,

00:57:13.480 the last thing I'll say on that,

00:57:14.480 the point he was making again,

00:57:16.000 because it was always a tactic to like,

00:57:17.500 get away from actually debating the point he was making against the point I was making when he started saying,

00:57:23.980 have you ever been?

00:57:25.760 He was wrong about,

00:57:27.220 he made the claim that Israel's blockade has not turned away any goods.

00:57:31.260 However you feel about the conflict,

00:57:33.180 that's just not true.

00:57:34.980 And I don't have to go to know that.

00:57:36.720 There's tons of videos of it,

00:57:37.880 but it's very well documented.

00:57:39.700 Lots of people who have gone there have talked all about it.

00:57:43.880 Well,

00:57:44.320 Dave,

00:57:44.540 the last question I want to ask you before we wrap this up is,

00:57:47.540 I'm sure you've probably seen this clip of like the Daily Wire guys and like Matt Walsh is like,

00:57:52.720 I don't think you really need to require people to be patriotic for another country.

00:57:56.700 And then like Ben Shapiro and Jeremy Boring are like,

00:58:00.200 whoa,

00:58:00.320 whoa,

00:58:00.460 whoa,

00:58:00.680 whoa,

00:58:00.840 whoa,

00:58:01.000 no,

00:58:01.260 obviously like if you're going to be an American,

00:58:03.660 you have to be patriotic for Israel.

00:58:05.580 And I feel like there's this moment,

00:58:07.900 right?

00:58:08.040 And again,

00:58:08.400 I am not as reflexively anti-war,

00:58:11.360 right?

00:58:12.120 Israel's estate agree with how it came into being or not.

00:58:15.280 It has a right to defend itself over there somewhere,

00:58:18.360 you know,

00:58:19.000 against terrorism.

00:58:20.100 And that's really their problem for me personally.

00:58:23.820 I feel like there's a growing American first movement,

00:58:26.800 especially generationally people under,

00:58:28.820 you know,

00:58:29.600 the Gen X and millennials and young,

00:58:31.240 they don't have this religious dedication to defending Israel is what makes us conservatives,

00:58:37.800 these kind of things.

00:58:38.560 And I think there's just this moderate position for me that I feel like I'm a part of,

00:58:42.360 Matt Walsh is part of,

00:58:43.440 many other people are part of,

00:58:44.520 maybe you're a part of,

00:58:45.660 that ultimately is like,

00:58:46.620 okay,

00:58:46.880 it's a state.

00:58:47.720 We don't need to hate it.

00:58:48.660 We don't need to,

00:58:49.420 you know,

00:58:50.100 facilitate protests again.

00:58:51.660 I don't need a bunch of Palestinians being shipped in here to harass Jewish students or whatever.

00:58:56.500 Like,

00:58:56.880 I don't need any of that.

00:58:58.020 But I also don't need to like send my troops or my money over there.

00:59:01.900 This is not my foreign policy focus.

00:59:04.100 I don't need a lobbying organization that obviously works on behalf of a foreign power to be able to legally operate in the United States without registering.

00:59:10.660 Like these things don't need to exist.

00:59:12.640 Right.

00:59:12.960 And there should be a moderate position that says,

00:59:15.880 I don't need to hate Israel.

00:59:17.960 I don't need to hate that country.

00:59:19.620 I don't need to have any animus toward it.

00:59:21.580 I don't need to welcome people in who hate it.

00:59:23.600 But at the same time,

00:59:24.600 I don't need to dedicate my existence to it.

00:59:26.300 This is not my country.

00:59:27.760 I am.

00:59:28.160 I don't,

00:59:28.520 there should be a moderate position here.

00:59:30.120 And to me,

00:59:31.200 it feels like there's a dedicated effort to ensuring that no moderate position on a shoot on this issue is available,

00:59:37.940 that it's either Nick Fuentes or like the dudes at the Babylon Bee and nothing in between.

00:59:42.640 Right.

00:59:42.960 Like the guys like me,

00:59:44.540 we've got to be anti-Semites just because we don't want to send every single American troop over there.

00:59:50.960 Or we must be pro-Zionist Israel shills because like we don't want to dedicate our lives to destroying the state of Israel.

00:59:58.200 Like there can't just be people who actually care about the United States and want its foreign policy entirely oriented there and literally just not care.

01:00:06.040 It seems like there is a concerted effort to ensure that that position is the one that's untenable inside the United States.

01:00:12.360 Yeah,

01:00:12.540 I think that's exactly right.

01:00:13.920 And I,

01:00:14.400 I completely agree with that.

01:00:15.660 And I also think that in some weird way,

01:00:17.900 you know,

01:00:18.180 they both feed off of each other.

01:00:20.420 Oh,

01:00:20.840 100%.

01:00:21.240 And it's,

01:00:22.800 there's sometimes it's like,

01:00:25.140 you know,

01:00:25.380 like,

01:00:25.600 I'm not saying this is the case at all.

01:00:29.340 I'm sure it's not.

01:00:30.340 I'm just saying like,

01:00:31.160 it would make complete sense if like Rabbi Shmuley was a paid Palestinian plant.

01:00:37.520 You know what I mean?

01:00:38.340 It's like make,

01:00:38.960 and it would make sense if all the Jew haters on Twitter were like secretly Mossad.

01:00:43.300 I'm not saying any of that's true.

01:00:44.460 I'm just saying it's like,

01:00:45.020 if one says it didn't exist,

01:00:45.640 they would need to create him.

01:00:47.000 Like,

01:00:47.040 yes,

01:00:47.340 like you're,

01:00:48.180 you're like,

01:00:49.040 I'll see it all the time.

01:00:50.460 Like in Twitter,

01:00:51.040 like the people who are like trying to catch my back will come out and say the most Jew hating thing.

01:00:56.340 And you're like,

01:00:56.820 you realize you're helping them.

01:00:58.540 Like you're just,

01:00:59.560 you're just an albatross around anybody who wants a different policies neck.

01:01:03.720 But I agree with you,

01:01:04.800 man.

01:01:05.220 I don't hate Israel and I don't hate the Israeli people.

01:01:08.660 And I don't hate.

01:01:09.520 And yeah,

01:01:09.920 I mean,

01:01:10.240 yeah,

01:01:10.440 sure.

01:01:10.700 Their government came into existence by kicking three quarters of a million people out of their land.

01:01:14.820 But like,

01:01:15.240 you know,

01:01:15.480 I don't know.

01:01:16.140 Many such cases.

01:01:17.320 Yeah,

01:01:17.720 right.

01:01:18.020 Exactly.

01:01:18.340 You know,

01:01:18.780 and that's like,

01:01:19.440 I'm not,

01:01:19.680 I'm not advocating that they give all of Israel back.

01:01:22.160 I'm not advocating that we give anything back to the native Americans.

01:01:24.980 I'm just saying like those native Americans who are still around today,

01:01:28.120 they should have their rights protected just like everybody else in America.

01:01:31.180 They should be given citizenship.

01:01:32.720 My beef is just kind of like with what they're still doing to the Palestinians.

01:01:35.520 And you can't just keep doing that forever.

01:01:37.200 And also the thing is like,

01:01:38.680 it's a total,

01:01:39.500 you couldn't do any of it without us backing it up.

01:01:42.080 So I'm not for that.

01:01:44.060 But to your,

01:01:45.160 your greater point.

01:01:47.180 Yeah.

01:01:47.580 Look,

01:01:48.080 I mean,

01:01:48.320 I think that there,

01:01:50.500 there has to be like a move where you,

01:01:55.440 you can say,

01:01:56.360 okay,

01:01:56.600 yeah,

01:01:56.880 you don't have to like become this,

01:01:59.440 you know,

01:01:59.640 it's,

01:01:59.780 I think Curtis Yarvin was the one who pointed out a while ago.

01:02:03.020 I'm pretty sure this was him.

01:02:03.960 Right.

01:02:04.320 Where he said like kind of the,

01:02:05.620 uh,

01:02:05.980 something along the lines.

01:02:07.020 I mean,

01:02:07.280 he said it more eloquently with a lot more words than I will,

01:02:09.920 but he,

01:02:10.780 uh,

01:02:11.000 he said that like,

01:02:12.200 basically like the framework of MSNBC is like,

01:02:16.420 you're either with us or you're a Nazi.

01:02:17.940 And then you get these young guys who go,

01:02:20.060 well,

01:02:20.240 screw you then I'm a Nazi.

01:02:21.580 Right.

01:02:22.060 And the problem with that is that then you're still being controlled by MSNBC.

01:02:27.120 You've still totally bought into their worldview and that you,

01:02:30.420 they wrote the parameters for you and you followed.

01:02:34.160 And the reality is that that's just really stupid.

01:02:38.260 You don't have to be either MSNBC or a Nazi.

01:02:40.780 It's like so ridiculous.

01:02:42.200 You can't believe anyone would even actually like believe that.

01:02:45.200 And so,

01:02:46.180 no,

01:02:46.680 you don't have to be loyal to a foreign country in order to be an American patriot.

01:02:50.460 And in fact,

01:02:51.400 we have a lot of our own problems here.

01:02:53.200 The last thing we need is another stupid war.

01:02:55.560 And we should,

01:02:57.160 if we're going to have anything to do with any area around the world,

01:03:01.740 should be very clear what is in our strategic interest about that.

01:03:05.900 And that I think is what's really gone.

01:03:08.140 That it's like,

01:03:08.840 there's,

01:03:09.200 it's just not,

01:03:10.420 nobody is even attempting to make an argument except for the most cartoonish,

01:03:14.980 ridiculous ones.

01:03:16.000 You know,

01:03:16.280 Hamas will come get you next or,

01:03:18.460 and like,

01:03:18.940 does anybody actually believe that,

01:03:20.780 you know,

01:03:21.100 does anybody actually believe I has below is a hell of a lot more powerful than

01:03:25.060 Hamas.

01:03:25.560 Do we really think the militia in the Southern part of Lebanon is a threat to America?

01:03:31.360 And then the same,

01:03:31.940 you know,

01:03:32.100 Vladimir Putin,

01:03:32.780 you have to really care about whether Luhansk is ruled by Kiev or Moscow because the Soviet

01:03:38.100 Union will be reconstituted.

01:03:39.480 No,

01:03:39.920 we don't.

01:03:40.720 And I think a lot of Americans,

01:03:42.600 particularly young Americans are there.

01:03:44.840 They're sick of being lied to,

01:03:46.660 and they're sick of policies that are not in their best interest being implemented.

01:03:50.220 And I,

01:03:51.800 I,

01:03:52.140 I think that's a really good development.

01:03:54.860 I agree.

01:03:55.640 And,

01:03:55.800 and what I hope is more and more that this moderate position can be assumed that,

01:04:01.460 that,

01:04:01.620 that,

01:04:01.940 that a truly American first policy does become that,

01:04:05.620 which is favorite.

01:04:06.240 And like I said,

01:04:06.700 I think it is generational.

01:04:07.860 I think you are watching a moment where a lot of the people that just had that kind

01:04:12.440 of inertia about,

01:04:13.800 you know,

01:04:14.160 how they should see foreign policy.

01:04:16.100 They're kind of passing away.

01:04:17.460 And the new generation is just not interested in that.

01:04:19.860 You've got a lot of global war on terror veterans involved in the military,

01:04:23.260 in this leadership now,

01:04:24.600 and they've seen this,

01:04:25.920 they know what's going on.

01:04:27.140 I,

01:04:27.300 I've,

01:04:28.140 you know,

01:04:28.520 I grew up on military bases.

01:04:29.780 Lots of my friends are,

01:04:30.720 are long-term military vets and the horror stories.

01:04:33.180 I'm,

01:04:33.340 I'm sure you've got plenty too,

01:04:34.540 but you know,

01:04:35.400 there there's,

01:04:36.060 there's a different set of people in town and they know what this has cost America.

01:04:39.520 And ultimately they want to bring the troops home,

01:04:41.940 not that we never need to deploy them,

01:04:43.740 but maybe we could deploy them,

01:04:44.840 you know,

01:04:45.160 to our borders that are actually being invaded instead of worrying about some other countries

01:04:49.640 orders at the end of the day.

01:04:50.760 But all right,

01:04:51.620 so we're going to go ahead and wrap this up again.

01:04:53.880 No questions from the people,

01:04:55.420 unfortunately today,

01:04:56.080 because we are pre-taped,

01:04:57.680 but thank you.

01:04:58.100 Anybody who submitted a question,

01:05:00.020 Dave obviously got part of the problem.

01:05:02.440 Anything else you want to send people to comic,

01:05:05.180 Dave Smith.com.

01:05:06.000 If you want to come see me do standup comedy on the road,

01:05:08.380 I'm coming all around the country this year.

01:05:10.020 So yeah,

01:05:10.600 check that out.

01:05:11.940 Fantastic.

01:05:12.620 All right,

01:05:13.000 guys,

01:05:13.400 we're going to go ahead and wrap this up as always.

01:05:15.260 If it's your first time on this channel,

01:05:16.540 you need to go ahead and subscribe on YouTube,

01:05:18.580 click the bell notification.

01:05:19.800 So,

01:05:20.240 you know,

01:05:20.380 when we go live,

01:05:21.360 if you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts,

01:05:23.340 you need to subscribe to the Oren McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform.

01:05:27.900 If you want to pick up my book,

01:05:29.100 the total state,

01:05:29.780 it is heading into a paperback printing.

01:05:32.000 So if you want to get some of the few hardbacks left,

01:05:34.760 you can still grab those before the next edition comes out.

01:05:37.220 And of course you can support the show by heading to blaze TV.

01:05:40.820 You can go to shop blazemedia.com and grab some of the merch for the show there.

01:05:45.280 Thank you everybody for watching.

01:05:46.500 And as always,

01:05:47.140 I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - April 30, 2025

The Rise and Fall of the Intellectual Dark Web ｜ Guest： Dave Smith ｜ 4⧸30⧸25

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript