The Auron MacIntyre Show - March 19, 2025


Trump Defies Judicial Tyranny | Guest: Sean Davis | 3⧸19⧸25


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

174.60823

Word Count

6,938

Sentence Count

418

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

8


Summary

Sean Davis, the co-founder of the Federalist, joins me to talk about how the deep state is trying to delegitimize Donald Trump and his presidency, and how the judicial system is powerless to stop them.


Transcript

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00:00:30.120 Hey everybody, how's it going?
00:00:31.780 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.
00:00:33.540 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
00:00:37.660 President Trump won with this massive mandate.
00:00:40.960 And for once in our lifetimes, a Republican president has decided to actually use power,
00:00:46.240 actually make changes.
00:00:47.620 He's moving fast.
00:00:48.700 He's breaking all the right things.
00:00:50.520 And this has the left in disarray.
00:00:52.640 They haven't been able to put together a competent pushback.
00:00:55.980 However, it seems like the system has hit on a snag that they feel is ultimately going
00:01:02.240 to slow down or cease Trump's revolution in its footsteps, which is activist judges,
00:01:09.440 obstructionist judges who want to exceed their constitutional authority, throw a wrench into
00:01:14.980 everything that Donald Trump is doing, and ultimately undermine our governance.
00:01:20.000 Joining me today to talk about this is Sean Davis.
00:01:23.260 He's the co-founder of the Federalist, the CEO over there.
00:01:25.960 Sean, thank you for coming on.
00:01:27.960 Well, thank you for having me.
00:01:28.960 It's an honor.
00:01:30.100 Absolutely.
00:01:30.660 You have been just absolutely tearing into the abuse of judiciary power on Twitter.
00:01:35.780 You've been doing an excellent job.
00:01:37.160 And so I definitely wanted to have you on.
00:01:39.480 I knew that you were going to be one of the best people to get into this.
00:01:42.720 But before we do, guys, let's hear from today's sponsor.
00:01:45.620 Hey, everybody.
00:01:46.300 This episode of the Oren McIntyre Show is proudly sponsored by Consumers Research.
00:01:51.580 You've heard about Larry Fink and BlackRock and ESG and all the ways that they're ruining
00:01:56.600 your life, making grocery stores more expensive, making video games more woke.
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00:02:07.420 just getting started.
00:02:09.060 Their work and its consequences have been profiled in the Washington Post, the New York Times,
00:02:14.320 and most recently, Fox Business reporter Charlie Gasparono wrote a whole chapter in his book,
00:02:20.160 Go Woke, Go Broke, on how effective they've been at dismantling BlackRock's ESG patronage
00:02:26.320 scheme.
00:02:26.980 He's making Larry Fink lose that last bit of hair on his balding head.
00:02:30.540 And you should follow Will's work on X so you can laugh along with him.
00:02:35.080 His handle is at W-I-L-L-H-I-L-D.
00:02:39.760 So give him a follow.
00:02:40.920 Again, that's at W-I-L-L-H-I-L-D on X.
00:02:48.100 All right, guys, so let's dive into this.
00:02:50.600 Like I said, Donald Trump making some impressive and important moves when it comes to dismantling
00:02:55.180 the deep state, tearing out the progressive patronage network when it comes to foreign aid
00:02:59.700 and NGOs trying to deport large numbers of violent gang members.
00:03:05.120 And yet, Sean, at every step, we see judges trying to step in.
00:03:09.400 We've had judges ruling that Donald Trump isn't allowed to decide who's in the military.
00:03:13.580 Donald Trump isn't allowed to decide how the people who work for the executive branch do
00:03:17.700 their job.
00:03:18.340 And the question I have for you is, what is the president and what does he do?
00:03:23.080 Because according to district judges, it sounds like the president is supposed to be Joe Biden.
00:03:27.540 He's supposed to sit around, eat some ice cream, show up to press junkets.
00:03:31.920 And that's basically it.
00:03:33.340 Yeah, what we've learned really since Trump's first term is that there's this kind of shadowy
00:03:40.320 cabal, whether you want to call it the deep state, the administrative state, now the judicial
00:03:44.200 state, that thinks it has the divine right to rule and that the president is really just
00:03:49.280 there as a figurehead to wave and shake hands and kiss babies.
00:03:53.400 And they seem absolutely irritated, like a witch looking at a cross or a vampire seeing garlic
00:04:01.220 at the idea of an elected president doing what he wants, according to the people who elected
00:04:07.480 him.
00:04:07.940 And it's a fascinating take to me at how the left handles actual democracy.
00:04:14.760 So we've heard them talk about our sacred democracy for years now, and we knew that was
00:04:20.160 nonsense.
00:04:20.700 What they actually mean is our power.
00:04:23.400 And what we're getting treated to now is with Trump understanding the nature of the
00:04:29.300 administrative state and bringing it to heel, we're now seeing the rise of the judicial tyrannical
00:04:35.740 state where we have a bunch of unelected judges in robes, not even on the Supreme Court.
00:04:40.420 We're talking about like random trial judges in D.C. deciding that they have the powers of
00:04:47.400 the presidency.
00:04:48.200 And I think the real challenge of this term, it's going to be a similar one to the first,
00:04:53.060 but it's going to be how do you handle a rogue judiciary that recognizes zero limits on its
00:04:59.660 own power?
00:05:00.960 Yeah.
00:05:01.460 In the first Trump administration, obviously a number of great things happened, but ultimately
00:05:05.820 people, I think, mostly remember it for being hampered by large amounts of press interference
00:05:11.100 and, most importantly, interference from the president's own executive branch.
00:05:16.120 People who wouldn't listen, who are countermanding orders, who were actively going out and saying,
00:05:21.600 we will not follow the executive orders coming from the president of the United States.
00:05:26.140 This was a constant problem that Trump was having to deal with, and it hindered a large
00:05:29.780 amount of what he was trying to get done.
00:05:31.340 This time, it's clear that Donald Trump has walked in with a better understanding of how
00:05:36.900 the government actually works, that simply being elected to the office and being in power
00:05:41.440 are actually not the same thing.
00:05:43.940 And you have to take control of the wider executive apparatus.
00:05:48.120 You can't just sit inside the White House dictating and expect everyone to ultimately follow
00:05:53.220 those rules.
00:05:53.940 However, now that Trump has learned that lesson, as you point out, there's a new stumbling block,
00:05:59.620 a new way to go ahead and stand between the president and his constitutional powers.
00:06:04.720 Right now, as you point out, again, there are judges.
00:06:08.040 It's not the Supreme Court.
00:06:09.080 It's just random judges on the bench who are out there basically saying that the article
00:06:13.940 two of the United States Constitution says, and the president shall sit in a chair like
00:06:20.100 that that's it, that the judges ultimately decide where we spend money, who gets to be in the
00:06:25.640 military, where we deploy troops, when we deport somebody, that the judicial review process
00:06:31.700 allows them to basically move in and control every aspect of the government just in case
00:06:37.820 a president got a weird idea that the executive was in charge of the executive branch.
00:06:43.280 The left are painting this as a constitutional crisis, but really what we're seeing is actual
00:06:48.640 constitutional governance, and it's been so long since we've seen constitutional governments,
00:06:52.760 the left will call it fascism.
00:06:54.860 Right.
00:06:55.380 Well, I actually think we are facing a constitutional crisis now because the people have elected
00:06:59.920 their government overwhelmingly.
00:07:02.160 Trump won the popular vote.
00:07:03.620 Not that that matters as far as who inhabits the Oval Office, but it does matter in terms
00:07:08.260 of perception.
00:07:09.000 He won all the battleground states.
00:07:10.700 Republicans control both houses of Congress.
00:07:12.580 They clearly have an electoral democratic mandate to do what they're doing.
00:07:16.420 And I think this case regarding the Venezuelan terrorists of Trin de Aragua being detained
00:07:23.280 and removed from the U.S. and a judge purporting to block the president from doing that, personally,
00:07:28.820 I think the judge here chose a horrific test case for the left here because he's infringing
00:07:36.840 on what has been for almost 250 years a unanimously understood core power of the presidency that
00:07:45.300 no one can infringe on.
00:07:46.940 And instead, you have this judge not looking at a law from first impression, like this law
00:07:52.120 was just passed and Trump's using it for the first time.
00:07:55.320 This has been a law really since the dawn of the American era.
00:07:59.220 It goes back to, I think, 1799.
00:08:02.960 It's been upheld repeatedly in multiple centuries by courts, including the Supreme Court.
00:08:09.980 In the most recent instance was after World War II, where the court looked at this.
00:08:15.020 Somebody was challenging the removal of a German citizen in 1948.
00:08:19.520 Now, for those of you who have read a book or have maybe watched some episodes about Hitler
00:08:25.740 on the History Channel, 1948 was after World War II was over.
00:08:30.440 By several years, we had a treaty with Germany at that point.
00:08:34.460 And this law says, you know, when in times of war, military hostility, predatory invasion
00:08:40.480 or incursion, the president is able to find and remove alien enemies as he determines.
00:08:47.220 So you have a case from 1948 where the Supreme Court said, years after the war with Germany
00:08:52.880 was over, the judiciary lacks the authority to review a removal order by the president
00:09:00.420 under that act, period.
00:09:02.800 There's no judicial review.
00:09:05.340 So what we have instead here is a judge who said, you know what?
00:09:08.820 I actually think not only do I personally have the right to review the order, I actually have
00:09:14.360 the right to direct the movements of military aircraft.
00:09:17.600 I have the right to demand of the executive branch operational military intelligence about
00:09:23.820 the status and location of enemy forces in the United States right now.
00:09:27.820 And it is such an abomination and inversion of how things work.
00:09:32.460 And then you look at the form that it's taking, and we'll get into like a little technical legal
00:09:37.760 area here, for whatever reason, temporary restraining orders, TROs, are not appealable.
00:09:45.860 I guess the logic is they're super temporary.
00:09:48.080 They're not worthy of interlocutory appeal.
00:09:50.680 They are unappealable.
00:09:51.960 You have to let the whole thing kind of work itself out before you can appeal that.
00:09:56.460 So what we have these judges doing is they're effectively doing nationwide blanket injunctions,
00:10:02.580 and they are dressing them up in the garb of a temporary restraining order to prevent the
00:10:08.400 president and the DOJ from even having the ability to appeal and get immediate relief from
00:10:14.360 a usurpation of their authority here.
00:10:16.420 And they all think they're being super clever and super cheeky, and no one's going to see
00:10:20.900 what they're doing.
00:10:21.840 And we're actually on the brink of a constitutional crisis here because we have unelected, inferior,
00:10:27.040 effectively staffer-level members of the judiciary, deciding that they have war-making and war-fighting
00:10:34.260 powers of the president of the United States.
00:10:36.660 That's a coup.
00:10:37.840 That is a seizure of power by lawless, illegal means.
00:10:41.300 And it represents, to me, a fatal threat to this country and our way of life.
00:10:45.300 And unfortunately, we have a chief justice right now who looks at that and is like,
00:10:48.240 yeah, I mean, we'll get to it when we get to it.
00:10:50.440 Yeah, that was going to be my next question for you.
00:10:52.440 Obviously, we have a chief justice who you think would want to act to maintain the integrity
00:10:58.140 of the courts and the judiciary branch in general.
00:11:01.140 He should recognize the level of threat that you're discussing here.
00:11:05.120 Throwing the legitimacy of the court into a dispute in this moment seems pretty dicey.
00:11:11.360 And yet he comes out with what is effectively a press release and more or less seems to push
00:11:17.720 back against Donald Trump in the middle of this process.
00:11:21.360 Now, I'm not a scholar in this area, but I'm reasonably sure that that's a relatively
00:11:27.860 unprecedented action, one that's ill-advised in a moment such as this.
00:11:33.640 You would think that Roberts would recognize that he's stepping out and placing the integrity
00:11:40.260 of the court in question.
00:11:43.160 And yet he thinks he's ultimately defending it by coming out and saying, no, you can't impeach
00:11:48.040 judges who are, well, actively doing things to avoid, as you point out, the basic process
00:11:54.420 with which people would appeal what's going on here, would question what's happening here.
00:11:58.720 What we have is basically judges thinking they're being clever to use little loopholes to avoid
00:12:04.120 any actual judicial relief, any legal questioning of this doctrine, of this application.
00:12:10.320 That can't be good long term.
00:12:12.100 He has to know that.
00:12:13.640 And yet here he is, what more or less standing up for judges that are obviously putting us
00:12:19.500 into the constitutional crisis that you are describing.
00:12:22.880 Yeah.
00:12:23.400 And I think there's two ways to look at what Roberts is doing.
00:12:27.980 He said over and over and over, he's worried about the legitimacy of the court.
00:12:31.740 That's fine.
00:12:32.440 I am too.
00:12:32.960 I actually think the rule of the law and the belief that our courts are equipped to impartially
00:12:39.560 adjudicate the law, I think that is a foundational need for civil society.
00:12:45.440 So if he truly believes in judicial legitimacy, I think that's great.
00:12:50.520 But the first way to look at it is that he does truly believe in that, that it's an important
00:12:54.400 core function and pillar of our republic.
00:12:59.480 But he's an utter fool if he thinks what he is doing is the best way of preserving it.
00:13:06.900 For example, the Constitution mentions the chief justice one time.
00:13:11.720 And it mentions that he has the role of presiding over a Senate trial of a president who's been
00:13:17.400 impeached.
00:13:18.220 That's it.
00:13:19.960 Nowhere does it say the chief justice has any authority over how, when, or for what reasons
00:13:26.340 any other official is impeached.
00:13:28.480 The chief justice has no say or role in whether an inferior judge in the judiciary is impeached.
00:13:35.220 He has no say, role, or authority in whether one of his colleagues on the Supreme Court is
00:13:40.740 impeached.
00:13:41.600 Impeachment is an entirely political question.
00:13:44.700 It is not a legal one.
00:13:46.920 Lawyers will talk about it in legal terms.
00:13:49.380 But at the end of the day, according to our Constitution, it is entirely a political decision
00:13:53.760 left up to people who are elected by and accountable to the people of this country.
00:13:59.380 So for him to wade in on a debate about the propriety of even discussing whether a judge
00:14:07.740 should be impeached, I think is so appalling and so beyond the pale and so foolish.
00:14:13.960 Because all it does is, by looking like a politician, he's practically begging to be treated like
00:14:21.160 a politician.
00:14:22.220 And I don't know if he knows this.
00:14:24.140 Politicians are not trusted in the same way judges are.
00:14:27.220 Like, if you had to pick between having the reputation and authority of a judge versus
00:14:31.440 a politician, you would pick judge every day of the week.
00:14:34.380 And yet, for some reason, he's deciding he wants to be treated like a politician by acting
00:14:38.760 like one.
00:14:39.600 Now, the other way to look at it is that when he talks about judicial legitimacy, he's using
00:14:43.820 different words and different meanings than you or I might use, like when Democrats talk
00:14:48.220 about our sacred democracy.
00:14:50.280 I suspect he may use the term judicial legitimacy more as a euphemism for just his power.
00:14:58.340 He likes the court to have power.
00:15:00.520 And he likes to have power.
00:15:01.960 And he doesn't like anyone infringing on his power.
00:15:05.280 But even in that case, I've got bad news for him.
00:15:08.820 The more people view the Supreme Court as being an unaccountable legislature, unaccountable
00:15:14.240 to the people, unelected with no way of dealing with it, they're going to all but demand that
00:15:19.440 their president, who they elect, and their Congress, who they elect, just straight up ignore them.
00:15:23.960 And that call is beginning at the lower level.
00:15:27.500 It will move up to the Supreme Court level if the Supreme Court decides it's simply not bound.
00:15:32.540 And its inferiors in the judiciary are simply not bound by the restraints of the Constitution.
00:15:37.800 And what I would like to avoid is us ever getting to that point.
00:15:41.040 Because if we get to the point where there is no belief, there is no deference to, there's
00:15:45.940 no respect of the judiciary, it is over.
00:15:48.800 Because you can't have rule of law at that point.
00:15:50.780 At that point, you just have rule of men.
00:15:52.320 And while it might be fun for some on the right to think about the Trump just giving the middle
00:15:58.260 finger to the courts and doing what he wants, and it'll be all fun and games, Trump's not
00:16:01.700 going to be president forever.
00:16:02.880 And Republicans aren't going to be president forever.
00:16:04.900 And I think one thing we've seen over the years is that Democrats are way better at using the
00:16:08.820 levers of power against their enemies to crush them than Republicans are.
00:16:13.060 And I don't think that's a place we want to be in the country where we're effectively
00:16:17.000 handling total power unmoored from the law to anyone on the left.
00:16:21.000 And yet that's exactly what John Roberts is basically setting up right now.
00:16:24.860 And I hope there's people around him who are sane and wise and actually have discernment
00:16:30.400 in the right temperament to tell him, hey, buddy, you say you're wanting to rescue your
00:16:35.180 legitimacy.
00:16:36.000 All you're doing right now is driving a stake into its heart.
00:16:39.460 Yeah.
00:16:40.100 And it looks even worse than that, I think, because, you know, obviously the left is a
00:16:45.160 terrorist organization.
00:16:46.200 They promote domestic terror.
00:16:49.040 They want to hurt people.
00:16:50.300 They cheer for assassinations.
00:16:52.520 They carry out assassinations.
00:16:54.800 One of the attempted assassinations was on a Supreme Court justice.
00:16:57.940 People seem to have just disappeared.
00:17:00.760 The fact that progressives have tried to murder Supreme Court justices due to their potential
00:17:07.300 rulings, but also the fact that on a regular basis, the White House went out of its way
00:17:11.560 to encourage leftist protesters in direct violation of the law to form mobs and sit on the lawns
00:17:19.500 of Supreme Court justices and to intimidate them.
00:17:22.900 And I got to say, when you look at the way that Roberts is behaving, it's hard to come to
00:17:27.760 any other conclusion than terrorism works in the United States.
00:17:31.740 If you threaten the justice, if you show up at their house, if you intimidate them, if
00:17:36.600 you send people to try to kill them, they will eventually rule in your favor or they
00:17:42.240 will act in your favor or they will defend politically your actions.
00:17:46.660 Now, that might ultimately not be the motivation for Roberts here, but it's hard to pretend that
00:17:51.940 this probably hasn't crossed the mind of the justices that have had people screaming loudly
00:17:58.140 on their lawns and ultimately taking possible violent action towards them.
00:18:02.860 They care about their families.
00:18:04.000 They care about their futures.
00:18:05.220 This is a very dangerous place to put the judiciary in where it seems pretty obviously influenced
00:18:11.780 by public threats of violence.
00:18:13.620 Right.
00:18:15.040 And right now, the left has a monopoly on public threats of violence because by and large,
00:18:20.400 they're psychopaths.
00:18:21.420 You don't see these calls from people on the right to go burn a carmaker to the ground
00:18:27.580 and to go dox all the owners of its vehicles because you don't like what the guy who created
00:18:32.740 the company is doing politically.
00:18:35.720 I actually think Roberts, he may not understand this about himself.
00:18:39.820 He is a case study in how the bullying of justices actually works.
00:18:45.500 This was a guy who, by all accounts, agreed that Obamacare was unlawful, that it contained
00:18:55.440 provisions that Congress didn't have the authority to enact, only to change his mind after a long-term
00:19:00.840 bullying campaign led by the Washington Post and the New York Times to come up with one of
00:19:05.400 the most internally inconsistent and inherently absurd rulings really of the modern era where
00:19:12.200 he decided, I call it Schrodinger's tax, where he decided that for the purposes of saying that
00:19:18.640 Obamacare was okay, it was going to be a tax for purposes of standing for the plaintiffs so that
00:19:25.520 they could look at it, I think it was the Anti-Injunction Act, to look at it and have standing to
00:19:30.340 rule on it, but it was not a tax for the purposes of whether it was proper or whether Congress
00:19:38.620 had properly passed it as a tax as opposed to, say, a Commerce Clause regulation.
00:19:46.900 So he had this completely ridiculous ruling that can't stand on its own two feet because
00:19:52.120 it's logically nonsensical.
00:19:54.040 And he got to that point because he was bullied by the New York Times.
00:19:57.880 I mean, they didn't even need to get to the point of violent threats.
00:20:00.940 I think this was back in 2012.
00:20:02.440 They just had to say, do what we'll do or we'll say mean things about you.
00:20:06.220 Imagine how much more powerful the threat of assassination and violence and terrorism against
00:20:11.380 one's family must be.
00:20:14.140 And yet, we don't see nearly the vociferousness of a response as we saw against Trump for having
00:20:24.060 the audacity to criticize a corrupt judge on Truth Social.
00:20:29.940 Ooh, French lavender soy blend candle.
00:20:33.040 I told you HomeSense has good gift options.
00:20:35.600 Hmm.
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00:20:38.340 Mom's going to love it.
00:20:39.680 She'll take one sniff and be transported to that anniversary trip you took to Saint-Tropez
00:20:43.780 a few years ago.
00:20:44.620 Forget it.
00:20:45.180 She complained about her sunburn the whole trip.
00:20:47.880 It's only $14.
00:20:50.020 $14?
00:20:50.500 Now that's a vacation I can get behind.
00:20:54.240 Deal so good, everyone approves.
00:20:56.940 Only at HomeSense.
00:20:58.700 I got to say, this is also, I feel like, a reflection of a larger global trend.
00:21:04.680 We see that the sclerotic bureaucracies, the corrupt oligarchies that have inhabited many
00:21:12.440 countries across the world have become very unpopular.
00:21:15.340 And so we're seeing a new set of energetic executives, be it Orban or others, out there
00:21:23.400 trying to cut through a lot of this, right?
00:21:25.940 Trying to forge a new way that allows for the continuation of some understanding of kind
00:21:31.960 of liberal sentiments, but ultimately making our governments functional again by having actual
00:21:37.520 executives that can take action.
00:21:39.440 And what we see in places like Romania and several Latin American countries is judiciaries
00:21:45.500 that are just canceling elections, completely overturning results, changing on a dime what
00:21:52.480 the democratic process is supposed to do and completely locking down the executives if they
00:21:58.600 happen to get elected.
00:21:59.900 It seems like this is not something that's just a phenomenon in the United States, but
00:22:05.000 a more general reaction of judiciaries that see the oligarchic structure of their countries
00:22:10.840 threatened or perhaps get influenced by larger international bodies like, say, NATO, and
00:22:16.440 ultimately end up directly involving themselves in overturning the democratic process or limiting
00:22:22.300 the power of the executive for pretty much the explicit purpose of getting pats on the head
00:22:27.280 from the global progressive community.
00:22:29.900 Yeah.
00:22:30.440 So it happened in Brazil.
00:22:32.460 It happened in Romania.
00:22:34.300 It happened in Israel.
00:22:35.860 There's effectively a judicial coup in Israel there against the elected government.
00:22:42.180 And I think it's important to note a coup does not cease being a coup because the person
00:22:46.840 behind it happens to wear a robe or have a law degree.
00:22:50.420 You know, it really doesn't matter if you're wearing a fake military uniform with, you know,
00:22:53.640 5,000 sparkly gold medals and ribbons on it, or you wear a powdered wig and a black robe.
00:23:01.320 A coup is a coup.
00:23:02.920 And it's really interesting globally to see how the left responds when the people do things
00:23:11.520 they don't like.
00:23:12.580 So they'll generally start with trying to rig an election.
00:23:15.600 But we've seen that everywhere, including in our own country.
00:23:18.620 When that doesn't work, they'll often try to imprison the opposition to prevent them from
00:23:25.700 running.
00:23:26.360 When that doesn't work, they'll sometimes try to assassinate the opposition leader that
00:23:31.600 they don't want in there.
00:23:32.360 If that doesn't work, they'll often do a coup, whether it's a military coup, a judicial coup,
00:23:38.920 something like what the United States incited in Ukraine, the Maidan revolution there, a
00:23:46.560 foreign-funded and orchestrated apparent populist coup.
00:23:50.920 And when that doesn't work, sometimes they'll just go in with the military and just declare
00:23:55.080 war against you and sweep you out militarily and by force.
00:23:59.340 But what we don't generally see globally when the left loses is an acceptance that maybe
00:24:05.000 the people just don't want them.
00:24:06.760 That's something I'd like to see more of.
00:24:08.460 I would, you know, for all the talk of accepting election results and our sacred democracy, I
00:24:13.120 know I keep going back to that.
00:24:14.500 I would love to see the left just say, yeah, we lost because people don't like what we believe.
00:24:19.860 In my lifetime, I don't think I've yet to see a president.
00:24:23.240 And I was born while Carter was president.
00:24:25.300 I don't think I've seen a Republican president elected and Democrats respond by saying, well,
00:24:32.160 they got us this time, guys.
00:24:33.280 We should just be better next time.
00:24:35.400 Well, because I think ultimately the left believe that they have the right to control
00:24:39.060 what people believe.
00:24:40.260 You know, that's the real problem.
00:24:43.000 If you look at all of their responses to their current laws, it's like, well, how could
00:24:47.920 we censor harder?
00:24:49.300 Why can't we manipulate the flow of information more thoroughly?
00:24:51.980 You know, it's never like, well, maybe like cutting the genitals off of kids isn't that
00:24:56.980 popular like that.
00:24:58.020 There's never that evaluation.
00:24:59.400 It's just like, how can we more effectively, you know, fire, debank, you know, silence people
00:25:05.580 who might point out that chopping the genitals off of children is something that's ultimately
00:25:09.620 barbaric.
00:25:10.380 And speaking of, you know, precedents that kind of set the table here, you have Joe Biden
00:25:16.140 who went out multiple times along with his administration and regularly bragged about
00:25:20.720 the fact that they were directly ignoring court rulings.
00:25:24.000 Like, I don't care.
00:25:25.120 We're going to we're going to get rid of student debt.
00:25:26.980 I don't care what any court says.
00:25:28.760 Like, I do what I want.
00:25:30.040 What are you going to do about it?
00:25:31.100 And the answer was nothing.
00:25:32.160 Right.
00:25:32.500 They would just keep doing it whenever they found the opportunity.
00:25:35.320 And ultimately, they knew that the court battle was never going to catch up with what they
00:25:39.880 were doing.
00:25:40.600 Same thing happened when it came to illegal immigration in the United States.
00:25:44.320 Obviously, you can't just leave the borders open like that.
00:25:47.960 That's just treason.
00:25:49.000 Like, like, there's just there's no other way to describe it.
00:25:51.220 This is treason for the purposes of engineering a political outcome that you hope eventually
00:25:57.400 to have in perpetuity when it comes to bringing in illegal immigrants and turning them into dedicated
00:26:02.180 Democratic voters.
00:26:02.980 And yet this was done because ultimately they knew that the courts were never going to catch
00:26:07.220 up with them.
00:26:07.920 If you import eight, 10 million people, it's going to take the entire Trump presidency just
00:26:11.760 to deport the people you let in, much less actually catch up to anything that was being
00:26:16.100 done in the courts or anything else.
00:26:17.940 And so the lesson coming from the Biden administration is ignore the courts, do what you want and
00:26:22.900 dare them to catch up with you ultimately.
00:26:26.480 And yet now that they see the shoe on the other foot, they're screaming bloody murder.
00:26:30.680 Now, you and I might have a minor disagreement on the state of the rule of law, but ultimately
00:26:37.060 the lesson for the left has to be very thoroughly.
00:26:40.460 You play these games, you get to win the stupid prizes, because if there is no consequence,
00:26:45.580 if we restrain ourselves and say, well, I guess we'll abide by all of the letter of the law
00:26:50.140 and all the rulings that come down while the left just runs over with whoever they want,
00:26:54.140 whenever they want, while they're in office, ultimately they're never going to change anything.
00:26:57.560 Why would they?
00:26:58.940 Yeah, it's why I believe in what I call political mutually assured destruction.
00:27:03.640 You know, it was it was the doctrine that we use to win the Cold War, where if the Soviet
00:27:07.940 Union understood that if they so much as even thought about launching a missile at us, they
00:27:14.040 would be destroyed thoroughly, entirely as a nation and as a people permanently for all
00:27:20.320 time before their missiles even hit the ground.
00:27:22.920 And that's actually a really healthy fear to have, because it helped govern and restrain some
00:27:29.280 of the more militaristic and anti-American impulses they may have had at the time.
00:27:34.800 They constantly had to ask, hey, is this worth all of us getting nuked over?
00:27:39.720 And thankfully, every time they asked that question, the answer was no.
00:27:44.040 We have to have the same effect on the left in politics.
00:27:47.300 And for too long, we've had the right play this stupid game of, well, that's not who
00:27:52.320 we are.
00:27:52.880 We're better than that.
00:27:54.120 Well, yeah, that's why we're a bunch of losers.
00:27:55.560 And it's why you always lose.
00:27:57.040 And it's it's why even when we win, we're not even allowed to turn the bolt back a little
00:28:03.480 to the left with the ratchet.
00:28:04.880 It just locks.
00:28:05.640 We're not allowed to do that in order to win in politics.
00:28:08.600 The other side has to fear that you're going to do to them good and hard exactly what they
00:28:14.280 want to you.
00:28:15.380 And then and only then when they understand the pain of what they have done to your side
00:28:22.020 the whole time, only then will they think, gosh, I don't know, guys, maybe this isn't
00:28:27.680 worth it.
00:28:28.460 And so one of my missions is to help the right understand that you don't win a gunfight by
00:28:34.740 tying one arm arm behind your pack and then trying to have a fistfight with them.
00:28:39.160 You have to fight on the same field according to the same rules and with the same desire
00:28:44.000 to win that the left has, because if you don't, they are going to crush you.
00:28:48.840 So in game theory, this is called tit for tat, right?
00:28:50.980 And it's the reciprocity.
00:28:53.340 We cooperate until you defect.
00:28:54.920 And the minute you defect, I defect harder.
00:28:57.540 And where you immediately feel the, you know, the consequence of your defection, we can go back
00:29:03.900 to cooperating or things can get worse from there.
00:29:06.440 Right.
00:29:06.660 But like there is no state of equilibrium that happens when one side follows the rules
00:29:11.480 and the other side breaks the rules.
00:29:13.160 Like if you're defecting and I just say, well, I'm cooperating no matter what.
00:29:16.760 And eventually you'll see how, what a good guy I am and how principled I am.
00:29:20.320 And eventually you're cooperate too.
00:29:22.000 No, they're going, they're going to crush you.
00:29:23.740 Right.
00:29:24.000 Like, and, and this is something we don't have to like put in abstract modern language.
00:29:28.680 The founding fathers understood this.
00:29:30.660 It's right in Federalist 51.
00:29:32.380 What checks ambitions?
00:29:33.900 Ambition.
00:29:35.100 Ambition checks ambition.
00:29:36.360 It, it, the founders didn't believe that some magical mechanical aspect of the constitution
00:29:41.840 is ultimately restrained government power.
00:29:44.540 They knew that men were not angels and to restrain their power, you need equal and opposite
00:29:49.240 force.
00:29:49.760 You need equal and opposite ambition and force to do that.
00:29:52.500 So if someone steps out of line, you don't just point to the constitution and say, you broke
00:29:57.220 the rules.
00:29:57.980 Now you got to sit on the chair with the dunce cap.
00:30:00.080 You come back at them and say, okay, you broke the rule.
00:30:03.060 Well, here's the consequence.
00:30:04.340 If you break the rule again, you get triple the consequence, right?
00:30:07.800 Like that, this is very simple.
00:30:09.840 Everyone understands this in social interactions, but for some reason, as soon as we get to the
00:30:14.380 constitution, this principle just kind of fades away.
00:30:17.420 And so like, I want people to understand that just having that level of reciprocity is not
00:30:23.020 unconstitutional.
00:30:23.900 It's not some weird breaking of the norms or the rules.
00:30:26.920 It's literally what you can read in the Federalist papers.
00:30:30.380 Right.
00:30:31.520 And there's a, there's a scene from a movie I love.
00:30:34.660 Unfortunately, it's a comic book movie, the most of which I think are stupid.
00:30:38.740 It's called the Watchmen.
00:30:40.020 There's a character in it named Rorschach who gets thrown in prison.
00:30:42.880 The guy's a total psycho and he's being approached by a bunch of prisoners who are thinking they've
00:30:48.260 got an easy job of doing him harm.
00:30:50.620 And he says, you don't understand.
00:30:52.280 See, I'm not locked in here with you.
00:30:54.680 You're locked in here with me.
00:30:56.820 What we need the left to understand is that the right as a whole has that mentality.
00:31:03.500 Because once they understand that, all of the nonsense stops, all of the stupid games stop.
00:31:10.080 And then suddenly you have something of a detente where you can all deal with each other equally
00:31:14.260 on the same terms and with understanding of each side's incentives and behaviors.
00:31:18.300 But, but our challenge on the right, which the left does not have, they actually have the
00:31:22.220 opposite problem.
00:31:23.280 Our challenge on the right is getting so many of these eggheads who think politics is an
00:31:27.660 academic exercise to understand, no, there are rules of engagement here and there's things
00:31:32.860 you have to do that are just basic human nature and instinct.
00:31:36.400 And if you don't understand that, you are going to be a doormat forever.
00:31:39.900 The left has the opposite problem, which is they're always trying to have to reign, having
00:31:44.140 to reign their crazies in.
00:31:46.300 But the thing is, it works for them.
00:31:49.100 The left understands power.
00:31:50.960 It understands how to manufacture it.
00:31:53.100 It understands how to wield it.
00:31:54.480 And it's why everything in this country for 100 to 150 years has moved the country slowly
00:32:00.840 left without fail.
00:32:03.960 So what about the Trump administration's response so far?
00:32:07.860 Obviously, we have the situation where that deportation flight had already been underway
00:32:12.580 when the ruling came down.
00:32:15.160 So a lot of people say it's in defiance of the ruling, but not really due to the timeline.
00:32:19.340 Ultimately, do you feel like the Trump administration is prepared with a robust legal counteraction?
00:32:26.220 Do you feel like they're willing to go ahead and continue in the face of what we think are
00:32:30.440 ultimately unconstitutional acts?
00:32:33.300 Do you think that they are going to capitulate?
00:32:35.480 Where do you see the administration at this moment?
00:32:38.280 Well, the posture they seem to have right now is one that the president is not going to allow
00:32:45.980 someone to lawlessly and illegally steal the powers of the presidency or prevent him from
00:32:51.460 using them.
00:32:52.260 That seems to me to be abundantly clear.
00:32:54.920 So that's a very good sign.
00:32:56.500 That's a very good posture to see because it tells you where they are fundamentally on the
00:33:00.760 use of presidential power and on their deference to the Constitution, which only gives presidential
00:33:05.880 power to the president as a legal matter.
00:33:08.760 I think they've pretty deftly handled it so far.
00:33:12.520 In the example of this case with the Venezuelans, you had a judge trying to order aircraft around.
00:33:18.460 Stephen Miller made a great point.
00:33:20.100 Like, you idiot.
00:33:21.540 Do you have any idea what that could have done?
00:33:24.040 How much fuel was on that plane?
00:33:25.740 Right.
00:33:26.020 Did it have enough fuel only to land and come back?
00:33:28.460 If you had ordered it to turn around, were you confident that would even be able to make
00:33:33.800 the trip back?
00:33:34.920 Of course he wasn't.
00:33:35.720 Of course he didn't have that knowledge.
00:33:37.380 But what they said in that case was, first off, when your written order, which is all
00:33:42.460 that matters, came down, those planes were already outside of the United States.
00:33:46.440 So the people had been removed at that point.
00:33:50.020 They're out of your jurisdiction.
00:33:51.440 Number two, the president has authorities beyond statutory authorities given to him by a particular
00:33:58.100 act.
00:33:58.940 He has core war powers and core foreign policy powers that are not implicated by the law.
00:34:05.880 And the judge has no authority to rebuke those.
00:34:11.000 And so therefore, they argued, we actually didn't defy you at all.
00:34:14.900 You gave an order.
00:34:16.240 Where we were able to comply with it, we did.
00:34:19.040 And where you did not have authority to do it, we did not recognize that authority.
00:34:24.000 And so I don't think we're at the point yet where it's come to a head.
00:34:27.760 But I think they're definitely handling it.
00:34:30.080 It's going to come to a head, I think, as these progress and these judges are more and
00:34:35.600 more emboldened by John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett's refusal to rein them in.
00:34:41.140 And I think it's that refusal that's actually causing this constitutional crisis.
00:34:45.140 It's not Trump doing things that presidents have done for almost 250 years.
00:34:50.540 Well, Sean, I know that you had a limited amount of time to be with us today.
00:34:54.100 So I thank you a lot for making the time while you could.
00:34:57.140 Always appreciate you coming on.
00:34:59.620 Is there anything you want people to check out before you go?
00:35:02.060 Yeah, check us out at thefederalist.com.
00:35:04.200 You can find us on X at FDRLST, or you can find me there as well at Sean, S-E-A-N-M-D-A-V,
00:35:12.680 Sean M-D-A-V on X, where I like to have a lot of fun on there.
00:35:17.740 So if you want to be entertained and educated, follow along.
00:35:22.020 You've definitely been tearing it up the last few days.
00:35:24.500 So I appreciate you getting out there and fighting the good fight.
00:35:27.000 Well, same to you, sir.
00:35:28.060 Thank you.
00:35:28.800 All right.
00:35:29.160 Talk to you later.
00:35:29.660 All right, guys, obviously Sean will not be around to go through the questions of the
00:35:34.740 people here, but I will do that real quick in just a moment before we do.
00:35:39.720 Let me remind you that have the merch over at the Blaze Media merch store.
00:35:45.620 So if you are interested in supporting the show, you can pick up hats, mugs, T-shirts,
00:35:51.660 all kinds of stuff.
00:35:52.860 Really appreciate it, guys.
00:35:54.400 Keeps everything going here.
00:35:56.440 Give me one second and we will move on to the questions of the people.
00:36:04.200 Oh, someone has pointed out that I have been muted the whole time I was trying to answer
00:36:09.260 those super chats, which is extremely embarrassing, but there we go.
00:36:14.160 Okay.
00:36:14.660 So I took the merch ad off and I just kept going with the mute.
00:36:23.000 So here we go from the top so you can actually hear my answers.
00:36:27.180 Very sorry about that.
00:36:29.040 All right.
00:36:29.920 So like I was saying, OGC in New York City.
00:36:35.260 Thank you very much, Gabby from Lindbergh.
00:36:37.920 And please make sure if you are a young man in New York City or you just want to find other
00:36:44.720 conservatives so you can get together and do something positive, have good camaraderie.
00:36:49.640 That's what the OGC is for.
00:36:51.280 I was addressing Philosophical Thirstworm's point about California, that ultimately California
00:36:58.260 has been turned blue by the justices.
00:37:01.700 I think you can just look at the fact that you had Proposition 8, the will of the people,
00:37:07.000 even in 2008, talking about how they were against gay marriage.
00:37:10.500 But ultimately, this gets overturned.
00:37:12.560 They don't really care about democracy.
00:37:14.560 It's just judicial fiat that ultimately advances their agenda.
00:37:17.860 When I was talking about Robert Weinsfeld's super chats here, as he pointed out that the
00:37:25.860 judiciary's ability to just override the president at any moment basically just obliterates all
00:37:30.860 constitutional order.
00:37:32.040 And it's really just about being a leftist.
00:37:34.100 That's what gives you the power as a justice.
00:37:36.280 You get this amazing ability to override any and all constitutional concerns.
00:37:41.140 When you just have the power of being a leftist, they'll cheer you on no matter what.
00:37:46.760 All right.
00:37:47.560 So thank you very much, Friendly, for letting me know that I was muted there.
00:37:55.200 CB also kind enough to let me know that I was muted while reading those.
00:37:59.920 There you go, guys.
00:38:01.180 The excitement of doing a live broadcast.
00:38:03.080 Sometimes you just click on the wrong buttons.
00:38:06.660 All right.
00:38:07.740 Well, looks like we will go ahead.
00:38:11.680 Everybody, we're back.
00:38:13.260 Thank you very much.
00:38:14.620 I appreciate it.
00:38:15.720 All right.
00:38:16.220 So glad we're able to remedy that.
00:38:19.680 Very glad that Sean was able to come on.
00:38:22.100 A fantastic guest.
00:38:23.220 Somebody who I think is always a strong voice on Twitter and has especially been good on
00:38:28.940 the judiciary here recently.
00:38:30.300 So I was glad he was able to make the time to come on.
00:38:33.700 If you would like to, or rather, if it's your first time on the YouTube channel and
00:38:38.860 you'd like to subscribe, now is a great time.
00:38:41.500 Make sure you click the bell on the notifications so you know when these shows go live.
00:38:46.180 If you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, make sure that you subscribe to the
00:38:49.900 Oren McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform.
00:38:53.840 Again, if you'd like to support the show, you know that you got merch over at blazemedia.com.
00:38:58.720 You just click on the Oren McIntyre show and you'll be able to get any of those fine,
00:39:03.680 fine pieces of apparel that we displayed previously.
00:39:07.480 And if you'd like to pick up my book where I talk about many of these issues when it comes
00:39:11.740 to the need to understand constitutional power, why we have failed to limit the overreach
00:39:17.000 of the government, you can head to Barnes Noble, you can head to Amazon, you can go to any major
00:39:25.760 bookstore like Books A Million, and even order from your favorite local bookstore, The Total
00:39:30.800 State, my latest book.
00:39:32.160 It's both on audio and in print version.
00:39:34.800 Thank you everybody for watching and for staying through some technical mishaps.
00:39:40.740 Appreciate you guys.
00:39:41.740 And as always, I will talk to you next time.