The Auron MacIntyre Show - Trump Defies Judicial Tyranny ｜ Guest： Sean Davis ｜ 3⧸19⧸25

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00:00:30.120 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.780 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.540 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.660 President Trump won with this massive mandate.

00:00:40.960 And for once in our lifetimes, a Republican president has decided to actually use power,

00:00:46.240 actually make changes.

00:00:47.620 He's moving fast.

00:00:48.700 He's breaking all the right things.

00:00:50.520 And this has the left in disarray.

00:00:52.640 They haven't been able to put together a competent pushback.

00:00:55.980 However, it seems like the system has hit on a snag that they feel is ultimately going

00:01:02.240 to slow down or cease Trump's revolution in its footsteps, which is activist judges,

00:01:09.440 obstructionist judges who want to exceed their constitutional authority, throw a wrench into

00:01:14.980 everything that Donald Trump is doing, and ultimately undermine our governance.

00:01:20.000 Joining me today to talk about this is Sean Davis.

00:01:23.260 He's the co-founder of the Federalist, the CEO over there.

00:01:25.960 Sean, thank you for coming on.

00:01:27.960 Well, thank you for having me.

00:01:28.960 It's an honor.

00:01:30.100 Absolutely.

00:01:30.660 You have been just absolutely tearing into the abuse of judiciary power on Twitter.

00:01:35.780 You've been doing an excellent job.

00:01:37.160 And so I definitely wanted to have you on.

00:01:39.480 I knew that you were going to be one of the best people to get into this.

00:01:42.720 But before we do, guys, let's hear from today's sponsor.

00:01:45.620 Hey, everybody.

00:01:46.300 This episode of the Oren McIntyre Show is proudly sponsored by Consumers Research.

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00:02:48.100 All right, guys, so let's dive into this.

00:02:50.600 Like I said, Donald Trump making some impressive and important moves when it comes to dismantling

00:02:55.180 the deep state, tearing out the progressive patronage network when it comes to foreign aid

00:02:59.700 and NGOs trying to deport large numbers of violent gang members.

00:03:05.120 And yet, Sean, at every step, we see judges trying to step in.

00:03:09.400 We've had judges ruling that Donald Trump isn't allowed to decide who's in the military.

00:03:13.580 Donald Trump isn't allowed to decide how the people who work for the executive branch do

00:03:17.700 their job.

00:03:18.340 And the question I have for you is, what is the president and what does he do?

00:03:23.080 Because according to district judges, it sounds like the president is supposed to be Joe Biden.

00:03:27.540 He's supposed to sit around, eat some ice cream, show up to press junkets.

00:03:31.920 And that's basically it.

00:03:33.340 Yeah, what we've learned really since Trump's first term is that there's this kind of shadowy

00:03:40.320 cabal, whether you want to call it the deep state, the administrative state, now the judicial

00:03:44.200 state, that thinks it has the divine right to rule and that the president is really just

00:03:49.280 there as a figurehead to wave and shake hands and kiss babies.

00:03:53.400 And they seem absolutely irritated, like a witch looking at a cross or a vampire seeing garlic

00:04:01.220 at the idea of an elected president doing what he wants, according to the people who elected

00:04:07.480 him.

00:04:07.940 And it's a fascinating take to me at how the left handles actual democracy.

00:04:14.760 So we've heard them talk about our sacred democracy for years now, and we knew that was

00:04:20.160 nonsense.

00:04:20.700 What they actually mean is our power.

00:04:23.400 And what we're getting treated to now is with Trump understanding the nature of the

00:04:29.300 administrative state and bringing it to heel, we're now seeing the rise of the judicial tyrannical

00:04:35.740 state where we have a bunch of unelected judges in robes, not even on the Supreme Court.

00:04:40.420 We're talking about like random trial judges in D.C. deciding that they have the powers of

00:04:47.400 the presidency.

00:04:48.200 And I think the real challenge of this term, it's going to be a similar one to the first,

00:04:53.060 but it's going to be how do you handle a rogue judiciary that recognizes zero limits on its

00:04:59.660 own power?

00:05:00.960 Yeah.

00:05:01.460 In the first Trump administration, obviously a number of great things happened, but ultimately

00:05:05.820 people, I think, mostly remember it for being hampered by large amounts of press interference

00:05:11.100 and, most importantly, interference from the president's own executive branch.

00:05:16.120 People who wouldn't listen, who are countermanding orders, who were actively going out and saying,

00:05:21.600 we will not follow the executive orders coming from the president of the United States.

00:05:26.140 This was a constant problem that Trump was having to deal with, and it hindered a large

00:05:29.780 amount of what he was trying to get done.

00:05:31.340 This time, it's clear that Donald Trump has walked in with a better understanding of how

00:05:36.900 the government actually works, that simply being elected to the office and being in power

00:05:41.440 are actually not the same thing.

00:05:43.940 And you have to take control of the wider executive apparatus.

00:05:48.120 You can't just sit inside the White House dictating and expect everyone to ultimately follow

00:05:53.220 those rules.

00:05:53.940 However, now that Trump has learned that lesson, as you point out, there's a new stumbling block,

00:05:59.620 a new way to go ahead and stand between the president and his constitutional powers.

00:06:04.720 Right now, as you point out, again, there are judges.

00:06:08.040 It's not the Supreme Court.

00:06:09.080 It's just random judges on the bench who are out there basically saying that the article

00:06:13.940 two of the United States Constitution says, and the president shall sit in a chair like

00:06:20.100 that that's it, that the judges ultimately decide where we spend money, who gets to be in the

00:06:25.640 military, where we deploy troops, when we deport somebody, that the judicial review process

00:06:31.700 allows them to basically move in and control every aspect of the government just in case

00:06:37.820 a president got a weird idea that the executive was in charge of the executive branch.

00:06:43.280 The left are painting this as a constitutional crisis, but really what we're seeing is actual

00:06:48.640 constitutional governance, and it's been so long since we've seen constitutional governments,

00:06:52.760 the left will call it fascism.

00:06:54.860 Right.

00:06:55.380 Well, I actually think we are facing a constitutional crisis now because the people have elected

00:06:59.920 their government overwhelmingly.

00:07:02.160 Trump won the popular vote.

00:07:03.620 Not that that matters as far as who inhabits the Oval Office, but it does matter in terms

00:07:08.260 of perception.

00:07:09.000 He won all the battleground states.

00:07:10.700 Republicans control both houses of Congress.

00:07:12.580 They clearly have an electoral democratic mandate to do what they're doing.

00:07:16.420 And I think this case regarding the Venezuelan terrorists of Trin de Aragua being detained

00:07:23.280 and removed from the U.S. and a judge purporting to block the president from doing that, personally,

00:07:28.820 I think the judge here chose a horrific test case for the left here because he's infringing

00:07:36.840 on what has been for almost 250 years a unanimously understood core power of the presidency that

00:07:45.300 no one can infringe on.

00:07:46.940 And instead, you have this judge not looking at a law from first impression, like this law

00:07:52.120 was just passed and Trump's using it for the first time.

00:07:55.320 This has been a law really since the dawn of the American era.

00:07:59.220 It goes back to, I think, 1799.

00:08:02.960 It's been upheld repeatedly in multiple centuries by courts, including the Supreme Court.

00:08:09.980 In the most recent instance was after World War II, where the court looked at this.

00:08:15.020 Somebody was challenging the removal of a German citizen in 1948.

00:08:19.520 Now, for those of you who have read a book or have maybe watched some episodes about Hitler

00:08:25.740 on the History Channel, 1948 was after World War II was over.

00:08:30.440 By several years, we had a treaty with Germany at that point.

00:08:34.460 And this law says, you know, when in times of war, military hostility, predatory invasion

00:08:40.480 or incursion, the president is able to find and remove alien enemies as he determines.

00:08:47.220 So you have a case from 1948 where the Supreme Court said, years after the war with Germany

00:08:52.880 was over, the judiciary lacks the authority to review a removal order by the president

00:09:00.420 under that act, period.

00:09:02.800 There's no judicial review.

00:09:05.340 So what we have instead here is a judge who said, you know what?

00:09:08.820 I actually think not only do I personally have the right to review the order, I actually have

00:09:14.360 the right to direct the movements of military aircraft.

00:09:17.600 I have the right to demand of the executive branch operational military intelligence about

00:09:23.820 the status and location of enemy forces in the United States right now.

00:09:27.820 And it is such an abomination and inversion of how things work.

00:09:32.460 And then you look at the form that it's taking, and we'll get into like a little technical legal

00:09:37.760 area here, for whatever reason, temporary restraining orders, TROs, are not appealable.

00:09:45.860 I guess the logic is they're super temporary.

00:09:48.080 They're not worthy of interlocutory appeal.

00:09:50.680 They are unappealable.

00:09:51.960 You have to let the whole thing kind of work itself out before you can appeal that.

00:09:56.460 So what we have these judges doing is they're effectively doing nationwide blanket injunctions,

00:10:02.580 and they are dressing them up in the garb of a temporary restraining order to prevent the

00:10:08.400 president and the DOJ from even having the ability to appeal and get immediate relief from

00:10:14.360 a usurpation of their authority here.

00:10:16.420 And they all think they're being super clever and super cheeky, and no one's going to see

00:10:20.900 what they're doing.

00:10:21.840 And we're actually on the brink of a constitutional crisis here because we have unelected, inferior,

00:10:27.040 effectively staffer-level members of the judiciary, deciding that they have war-making and war-fighting

00:10:34.260 powers of the president of the United States.

00:10:36.660 That's a coup.

00:10:37.840 That is a seizure of power by lawless, illegal means.

00:10:41.300 And it represents, to me, a fatal threat to this country and our way of life.

00:10:45.300 And unfortunately, we have a chief justice right now who looks at that and is like,

00:10:48.240 yeah, I mean, we'll get to it when we get to it.

00:10:50.440 Yeah, that was going to be my next question for you.

00:10:52.440 Obviously, we have a chief justice who you think would want to act to maintain the integrity

00:10:58.140 of the courts and the judiciary branch in general.

00:11:01.140 He should recognize the level of threat that you're discussing here.

00:11:05.120 Throwing the legitimacy of the court into a dispute in this moment seems pretty dicey.

00:11:11.360 And yet he comes out with what is effectively a press release and more or less seems to push

00:11:17.720 back against Donald Trump in the middle of this process.

00:11:21.360 Now, I'm not a scholar in this area, but I'm reasonably sure that that's a relatively

00:11:27.860 unprecedented action, one that's ill-advised in a moment such as this.

00:11:33.640 You would think that Roberts would recognize that he's stepping out and placing the integrity

00:11:40.260 of the court in question.

00:11:43.160 And yet he thinks he's ultimately defending it by coming out and saying, no, you can't impeach

00:11:48.040 judges who are, well, actively doing things to avoid, as you point out, the basic process

00:11:54.420 with which people would appeal what's going on here, would question what's happening here.

00:11:58.720 What we have is basically judges thinking they're being clever to use little loopholes to avoid

00:12:04.120 any actual judicial relief, any legal questioning of this doctrine, of this application.

00:12:10.320 That can't be good long term.

00:12:12.100 He has to know that.

00:12:13.640 And yet here he is, what more or less standing up for judges that are obviously putting us

00:12:19.500 into the constitutional crisis that you are describing.

00:12:22.880 Yeah.

00:12:23.400 And I think there's two ways to look at what Roberts is doing.

00:12:27.980 He said over and over and over, he's worried about the legitimacy of the court.

00:12:31.740 That's fine.

00:12:32.440 I am too.

00:12:32.960 I actually think the rule of the law and the belief that our courts are equipped to impartially

00:12:39.560 adjudicate the law, I think that is a foundational need for civil society.

00:12:45.440 So if he truly believes in judicial legitimacy, I think that's great.

00:12:50.520 But the first way to look at it is that he does truly believe in that, that it's an important

00:12:54.400 core function and pillar of our republic. 0.98

00:12:59.480 But he's an utter fool if he thinks what he is doing is the best way of preserving it. 0.97

00:13:06.900 For example, the Constitution mentions the chief justice one time. 0.98

00:13:11.720 And it mentions that he has the role of presiding over a Senate trial of a president who's been

00:13:17.400 impeached.

00:13:18.220 That's it.

00:13:19.960 Nowhere does it say the chief justice has any authority over how, when, or for what reasons

00:13:26.340 any other official is impeached.

00:13:28.480 The chief justice has no say or role in whether an inferior judge in the judiciary is impeached.

00:13:35.220 He has no say, role, or authority in whether one of his colleagues on the Supreme Court is

00:13:40.740 impeached.

00:13:41.600 Impeachment is an entirely political question.

00:13:44.700 It is not a legal one.

00:13:46.920 Lawyers will talk about it in legal terms.

00:13:49.380 But at the end of the day, according to our Constitution, it is entirely a political decision

00:13:53.760 left up to people who are elected by and accountable to the people of this country.

00:13:59.380 So for him to wade in on a debate about the propriety of even discussing whether a judge 0.99

00:14:07.740 should be impeached, I think is so appalling and so beyond the pale and so foolish. 0.97

00:14:13.960 Because all it does is, by looking like a politician, he's practically begging to be treated like 0.98

00:14:21.160 a politician.

00:14:22.220 And I don't know if he knows this.

00:14:24.140 Politicians are not trusted in the same way judges are.

00:14:27.220 Like, if you had to pick between having the reputation and authority of a judge versus

00:14:31.440 a politician, you would pick judge every day of the week.

00:14:34.380 And yet, for some reason, he's deciding he wants to be treated like a politician by acting

00:14:38.760 like one.

00:14:39.600 Now, the other way to look at it is that when he talks about judicial legitimacy, he's using

00:14:43.820 different words and different meanings than you or I might use, like when Democrats talk

00:14:48.220 about our sacred democracy.

00:14:50.280 I suspect he may use the term judicial legitimacy more as a euphemism for just his power.

00:14:58.340 He likes the court to have power.

00:15:00.520 And he likes to have power.

00:15:01.960 And he doesn't like anyone infringing on his power.

00:15:05.280 But even in that case, I've got bad news for him.

00:15:08.820 The more people view the Supreme Court as being an unaccountable legislature, unaccountable

00:15:14.240 to the people, unelected with no way of dealing with it, they're going to all but demand that

00:15:19.440 their president, who they elect, and their Congress, who they elect, just straight up ignore them.

00:15:23.960 And that call is beginning at the lower level.

00:15:27.500 It will move up to the Supreme Court level if the Supreme Court decides it's simply not bound.

00:15:32.540 And its inferiors in the judiciary are simply not bound by the restraints of the Constitution.

00:15:37.800 And what I would like to avoid is us ever getting to that point.

00:15:41.040 Because if we get to the point where there is no belief, there is no deference to, there's

00:15:45.940 no respect of the judiciary, it is over.

00:15:48.800 Because you can't have rule of law at that point.

00:15:50.780 At that point, you just have rule of men. 0.78

00:15:52.320 And while it might be fun for some on the right to think about the Trump just giving the middle

00:15:58.260 finger to the courts and doing what he wants, and it'll be all fun and games, Trump's not

00:16:01.700 going to be president forever.

00:16:02.880 And Republicans aren't going to be president forever.

00:16:04.900 And I think one thing we've seen over the years is that Democrats are way better at using the

00:16:08.820 levers of power against their enemies to crush them than Republicans are.

00:16:13.060 And I don't think that's a place we want to be in the country where we're effectively

00:16:17.000 handling total power unmoored from the law to anyone on the left.

00:16:21.000 And yet that's exactly what John Roberts is basically setting up right now.

00:16:24.860 And I hope there's people around him who are sane and wise and actually have discernment

00:16:30.400 in the right temperament to tell him, hey, buddy, you say you're wanting to rescue your

00:16:35.180 legitimacy.

00:16:36.000 All you're doing right now is driving a stake into its heart.

00:16:39.460 Yeah.

00:16:40.100 And it looks even worse than that, I think, because, you know, obviously the left is a 0.71

00:16:45.160 terrorist organization.

00:16:46.200 They promote domestic terror. 0.84

00:16:49.040 They want to hurt people.

00:16:50.300 They cheer for assassinations. 0.90

00:16:52.520 They carry out assassinations.

00:16:54.800 One of the attempted assassinations was on a Supreme Court justice.

00:16:57.940 People seem to have just disappeared.

00:17:00.760 The fact that progressives have tried to murder Supreme Court justices due to their potential

00:17:07.300 rulings, but also the fact that on a regular basis, the White House went out of its way

00:17:11.560 to encourage leftist protesters in direct violation of the law to form mobs and sit on the lawns

00:17:19.500 of Supreme Court justices and to intimidate them.

00:17:22.900 And I got to say, when you look at the way that Roberts is behaving, it's hard to come to

00:17:27.760 any other conclusion than terrorism works in the United States.

00:17:31.740 If you threaten the justice, if you show up at their house, if you intimidate them, if

00:17:36.600 you send people to try to kill them, they will eventually rule in your favor or they

00:17:42.240 will act in your favor or they will defend politically your actions.

00:17:46.660 Now, that might ultimately not be the motivation for Roberts here, but it's hard to pretend that

00:17:51.940 this probably hasn't crossed the mind of the justices that have had people screaming loudly

00:17:58.140 on their lawns and ultimately taking possible violent action towards them.

00:18:02.860 They care about their families.

00:18:04.000 They care about their futures.

00:18:05.220 This is a very dangerous place to put the judiciary in where it seems pretty obviously influenced

00:18:11.780 by public threats of violence.

00:18:13.620 Right.

00:18:15.040 And right now, the left has a monopoly on public threats of violence because by and large, 0.99

00:18:20.400 they're psychopaths. 0.78

00:18:21.420 You don't see these calls from people on the right to go burn a carmaker to the ground 0.92

00:18:27.580 and to go dox all the owners of its vehicles because you don't like what the guy who created

00:18:32.740 the company is doing politically.

00:18:35.720 I actually think Roberts, he may not understand this about himself.

00:18:39.820 He is a case study in how the bullying of justices actually works.

00:18:45.500 This was a guy who, by all accounts, agreed that Obamacare was unlawful, that it contained

00:18:55.440 provisions that Congress didn't have the authority to enact, only to change his mind after a long-term

00:19:00.840 bullying campaign led by the Washington Post and the New York Times to come up with one of

00:19:05.400 the most internally inconsistent and inherently absurd rulings really of the modern era where

00:19:12.200 he decided, I call it Schrodinger's tax, where he decided that for the purposes of saying that

00:19:18.640 Obamacare was okay, it was going to be a tax for purposes of standing for the plaintiffs so that

00:19:25.520 they could look at it, I think it was the Anti-Injunction Act, to look at it and have standing to

00:19:30.340 rule on it, but it was not a tax for the purposes of whether it was proper or whether Congress

00:19:38.620 had properly passed it as a tax as opposed to, say, a Commerce Clause regulation.

00:19:46.900 So he had this completely ridiculous ruling that can't stand on its own two feet because

00:19:52.120 it's logically nonsensical. 0.82

00:19:54.040 And he got to that point because he was bullied by the New York Times.

00:19:57.880 I mean, they didn't even need to get to the point of violent threats.

00:20:00.940 I think this was back in 2012.

00:20:02.440 They just had to say, do what we'll do or we'll say mean things about you.

00:20:06.220 Imagine how much more powerful the threat of assassination and violence and terrorism against

00:20:11.380 one's family must be.

00:20:14.140 And yet, we don't see nearly the vociferousness of a response as we saw against Trump for having

00:20:24.060 the audacity to criticize a corrupt judge on Truth Social.

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00:20:35.600 Hmm.

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00:20:39.680 She'll take one sniff and be transported to that anniversary trip you took to Saint-Tropez

00:20:43.780 a few years ago.

00:20:44.620 Forget it.

00:20:45.180 She complained about her sunburn the whole trip.

00:20:47.880 It's only $14.

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00:20:58.700 I got to say, this is also, I feel like, a reflection of a larger global trend.

00:21:04.680 We see that the sclerotic bureaucracies, the corrupt oligarchies that have inhabited many

00:21:12.440 countries across the world have become very unpopular.

00:21:15.340 And so we're seeing a new set of energetic executives, be it Orban or others, out there

00:21:23.400 trying to cut through a lot of this, right?

00:21:25.940 Trying to forge a new way that allows for the continuation of some understanding of kind

00:21:31.960 of liberal sentiments, but ultimately making our governments functional again by having actual

00:21:37.520 executives that can take action.

00:21:39.440 And what we see in places like Romania and several Latin American countries is judiciaries 0.69

00:21:45.500 that are just canceling elections, completely overturning results, changing on a dime what

00:21:52.480 the democratic process is supposed to do and completely locking down the executives if they

00:21:58.600 happen to get elected.

00:21:59.900 It seems like this is not something that's just a phenomenon in the United States, but

00:22:05.000 a more general reaction of judiciaries that see the oligarchic structure of their countries

00:22:10.840 threatened or perhaps get influenced by larger international bodies like, say, NATO, and

00:22:16.440 ultimately end up directly involving themselves in overturning the democratic process or limiting

00:22:22.300 the power of the executive for pretty much the explicit purpose of getting pats on the head

00:22:27.280 from the global progressive community.

00:22:29.900 Yeah.

00:22:30.440 So it happened in Brazil.

00:22:32.460 It happened in Romania.

00:22:34.300 It happened in Israel.

00:22:35.860 There's effectively a judicial coup in Israel there against the elected government.

00:22:42.180 And I think it's important to note a coup does not cease being a coup because the person

00:22:46.840 behind it happens to wear a robe or have a law degree.

00:22:50.420 You know, it really doesn't matter if you're wearing a fake military uniform with, you know,

00:22:53.640 5,000 sparkly gold medals and ribbons on it, or you wear a powdered wig and a black robe.

00:23:01.320 A coup is a coup.

00:23:02.920 And it's really interesting globally to see how the left responds when the people do things

00:23:11.520 they don't like.

00:23:12.580 So they'll generally start with trying to rig an election.

00:23:15.600 But we've seen that everywhere, including in our own country.

00:23:18.620 When that doesn't work, they'll often try to imprison the opposition to prevent them from

00:23:25.700 running.

00:23:26.360 When that doesn't work, they'll sometimes try to assassinate the opposition leader that

00:23:31.600 they don't want in there.

00:23:32.360 If that doesn't work, they'll often do a coup, whether it's a military coup, a judicial coup,

00:23:38.920 something like what the United States incited in Ukraine, the Maidan revolution there, a

00:23:46.560 foreign-funded and orchestrated apparent populist coup.

00:23:50.920 And when that doesn't work, sometimes they'll just go in with the military and just declare

00:23:55.080 war against you and sweep you out militarily and by force.

00:23:59.340 But what we don't generally see globally when the left loses is an acceptance that maybe

00:24:05.000 the people just don't want them.

00:24:06.760 That's something I'd like to see more of.

00:24:08.460 I would, you know, for all the talk of accepting election results and our sacred democracy, I

00:24:13.120 know I keep going back to that.

00:24:14.500 I would love to see the left just say, yeah, we lost because people don't like what we believe.

00:24:19.860 In my lifetime, I don't think I've yet to see a president.

00:24:23.240 And I was born while Carter was president.

00:24:25.300 I don't think I've seen a Republican president elected and Democrats respond by saying, well,

00:24:32.160 they got us this time, guys.

00:24:33.280 We should just be better next time.

00:24:35.400 Well, because I think ultimately the left believe that they have the right to control

00:24:39.060 what people believe.

00:24:40.260 You know, that's the real problem.

00:24:43.000 If you look at all of their responses to their current laws, it's like, well, how could

00:24:47.920 we censor harder?

00:24:49.300 Why can't we manipulate the flow of information more thoroughly? 0.96

00:24:51.980 You know, it's never like, well, maybe like cutting the genitals off of kids isn't that 0.97

00:24:56.980 popular like that. 0.94

00:24:58.020 There's never that evaluation.

00:24:59.400 It's just like, how can we more effectively, you know, fire, debank, you know, silence people 0.80

00:25:05.580 who might point out that chopping the genitals off of children is something that's ultimately 0.95

00:25:09.620 barbaric. 0.82

00:25:10.380 And speaking of, you know, precedents that kind of set the table here, you have Joe Biden

00:25:16.140 who went out multiple times along with his administration and regularly bragged about

00:25:20.720 the fact that they were directly ignoring court rulings.

00:25:24.000 Like, I don't care.

00:25:25.120 We're going to we're going to get rid of student debt.

00:25:26.980 I don't care what any court says.

00:25:28.760 Like, I do what I want.

00:25:30.040 What are you going to do about it?

00:25:31.100 And the answer was nothing.

00:25:32.160 Right.

00:25:32.500 They would just keep doing it whenever they found the opportunity.

00:25:35.320 And ultimately, they knew that the court battle was never going to catch up with what they

00:25:39.880 were doing.

00:25:40.600 Same thing happened when it came to illegal immigration in the United States.

00:25:44.320 Obviously, you can't just leave the borders open like that.

00:25:47.960 That's just treason.

00:25:49.000 Like, like, there's just there's no other way to describe it.

00:25:51.220 This is treason for the purposes of engineering a political outcome that you hope eventually

00:25:57.400 to have in perpetuity when it comes to bringing in illegal immigrants and turning them into dedicated 1.00

00:26:02.180 Democratic voters.

00:26:02.980 And yet this was done because ultimately they knew that the courts were never going to catch

00:26:07.220 up with them.

00:26:07.920 If you import eight, 10 million people, it's going to take the entire Trump presidency just

00:26:11.760 to deport the people you let in, much less actually catch up to anything that was being

00:26:16.100 done in the courts or anything else.

00:26:17.940 And so the lesson coming from the Biden administration is ignore the courts, do what you want and

00:26:22.900 dare them to catch up with you ultimately.

00:26:26.480 And yet now that they see the shoe on the other foot, they're screaming bloody murder.

00:26:30.680 Now, you and I might have a minor disagreement on the state of the rule of law, but ultimately

00:26:37.060 the lesson for the left has to be very thoroughly. 0.99

00:26:40.460 You play these games, you get to win the stupid prizes, because if there is no consequence, 0.98

00:26:45.580 if we restrain ourselves and say, well, I guess we'll abide by all of the letter of the law 0.99

00:26:50.140 and all the rulings that come down while the left just runs over with whoever they want,

00:26:54.140 whenever they want, while they're in office, ultimately they're never going to change anything.

00:26:57.560 Why would they?

00:26:58.940 Yeah, it's why I believe in what I call political mutually assured destruction.

00:27:03.640 You know, it was it was the doctrine that we use to win the Cold War, where if the Soviet 0.87

00:27:07.940 Union understood that if they so much as even thought about launching a missile at us, they

00:27:14.040 would be destroyed thoroughly, entirely as a nation and as a people permanently for all 0.99

00:27:20.320 time before their missiles even hit the ground.

00:27:22.920 And that's actually a really healthy fear to have, because it helped govern and restrain some

00:27:29.280 of the more militaristic and anti-American impulses they may have had at the time.

00:27:34.800 They constantly had to ask, hey, is this worth all of us getting nuked over?

00:27:39.720 And thankfully, every time they asked that question, the answer was no.

00:27:44.040 We have to have the same effect on the left in politics. 0.98

00:27:47.300 And for too long, we've had the right play this stupid game of, well, that's not who 0.99

00:27:52.320 we are. 1.00

00:27:52.880 We're better than that. 0.99

00:27:54.120 Well, yeah, that's why we're a bunch of losers. 0.99

00:27:55.560 And it's why you always lose. 0.82

00:27:57.040 And it's it's why even when we win, we're not even allowed to turn the bolt back a little

00:28:03.480 to the left with the ratchet.

00:28:04.880 It just locks.

00:28:05.640 We're not allowed to do that in order to win in politics.

00:28:08.600 The other side has to fear that you're going to do to them good and hard exactly what they

00:28:14.280 want to you.

00:28:15.380 And then and only then when they understand the pain of what they have done to your side

00:28:22.020 the whole time, only then will they think, gosh, I don't know, guys, maybe this isn't

00:28:27.680 worth it.

00:28:28.460 And so one of my missions is to help the right understand that you don't win a gunfight by

00:28:34.740 tying one arm arm behind your pack and then trying to have a fistfight with them.

00:28:39.160 You have to fight on the same field according to the same rules and with the same desire

00:28:44.000 to win that the left has, because if you don't, they are going to crush you.

00:28:48.840 So in game theory, this is called tit for tat, right?

00:28:50.980 And it's the reciprocity.

00:28:53.340 We cooperate until you defect.

00:28:54.920 And the minute you defect, I defect harder.

00:28:57.540 And where you immediately feel the, you know, the consequence of your defection, we can go back

00:29:03.900 to cooperating or things can get worse from there.

00:29:06.440 Right.

00:29:06.660 But like there is no state of equilibrium that happens when one side follows the rules

00:29:11.480 and the other side breaks the rules.

00:29:13.160 Like if you're defecting and I just say, well, I'm cooperating no matter what.

00:29:16.760 And eventually you'll see how, what a good guy I am and how principled I am.

00:29:20.320 And eventually you're cooperate too.

00:29:22.000 No, they're going, they're going to crush you.

00:29:23.740 Right.

00:29:24.000 Like, and, and this is something we don't have to like put in abstract modern language.

00:29:28.680 The founding fathers understood this.

00:29:30.660 It's right in Federalist 51.

00:29:32.380 What checks ambitions?

00:29:33.900 Ambition.

00:29:35.100 Ambition checks ambition.

00:29:36.360 It, it, the founders didn't believe that some magical mechanical aspect of the constitution

00:29:41.840 is ultimately restrained government power.

00:29:44.540 They knew that men were not angels and to restrain their power, you need equal and opposite

00:29:49.240 force.

00:29:49.760 You need equal and opposite ambition and force to do that.

00:29:52.500 So if someone steps out of line, you don't just point to the constitution and say, you broke

00:29:57.220 the rules.

00:29:57.980 Now you got to sit on the chair with the dunce cap.

00:30:00.080 You come back at them and say, okay, you broke the rule.

00:30:03.060 Well, here's the consequence.

00:30:04.340 If you break the rule again, you get triple the consequence, right?

00:30:07.800 Like that, this is very simple.

00:30:09.840 Everyone understands this in social interactions, but for some reason, as soon as we get to the

00:30:14.380 constitution, this principle just kind of fades away.

00:30:17.420 And so like, I want people to understand that just having that level of reciprocity is not

00:30:23.020 unconstitutional.

00:30:23.900 It's not some weird breaking of the norms or the rules.

00:30:26.920 It's literally what you can read in the Federalist papers.

00:30:30.380 Right.

00:30:31.520 And there's a, there's a scene from a movie I love. 1.00

00:30:34.660 Unfortunately, it's a comic book movie, the most of which I think are stupid. 0.99

00:30:38.740 It's called the Watchmen. 0.99

00:30:40.020 There's a character in it named Rorschach who gets thrown in prison.

00:30:42.880 The guy's a total psycho and he's being approached by a bunch of prisoners who are thinking they've

00:30:48.260 got an easy job of doing him harm. 0.97

00:30:50.620 And he says, you don't understand.

00:30:52.280 See, I'm not locked in here with you.

00:30:54.680 You're locked in here with me.

00:30:56.820 What we need the left to understand is that the right as a whole has that mentality. 1.00

00:31:03.500 Because once they understand that, all of the nonsense stops, all of the stupid games stop. 0.98

00:31:10.080 And then suddenly you have something of a detente where you can all deal with each other equally 0.96

00:31:14.260 on the same terms and with understanding of each side's incentives and behaviors.

00:31:18.300 But, but our challenge on the right, which the left does not have, they actually have the

00:31:22.220 opposite problem.

00:31:23.280 Our challenge on the right is getting so many of these eggheads who think politics is an

00:31:27.660 academic exercise to understand, no, there are rules of engagement here and there's things

00:31:32.860 you have to do that are just basic human nature and instinct.

00:31:36.400 And if you don't understand that, you are going to be a doormat forever.

00:31:39.900 The left has the opposite problem, which is they're always trying to have to reign, having 0.94

00:31:44.140 to reign their crazies in.

00:31:46.300 But the thing is, it works for them.

00:31:49.100 The left understands power.

00:31:50.960 It understands how to manufacture it.

00:31:53.100 It understands how to wield it.

00:31:54.480 And it's why everything in this country for 100 to 150 years has moved the country slowly

00:32:00.840 left without fail.

00:32:03.960 So what about the Trump administration's response so far?

00:32:07.860 Obviously, we have the situation where that deportation flight had already been underway

00:32:12.580 when the ruling came down.

00:32:15.160 So a lot of people say it's in defiance of the ruling, but not really due to the timeline.

00:32:19.340 Ultimately, do you feel like the Trump administration is prepared with a robust legal counteraction?

00:32:26.220 Do you feel like they're willing to go ahead and continue in the face of what we think are

00:32:30.440 ultimately unconstitutional acts?

00:32:33.300 Do you think that they are going to capitulate?

00:32:35.480 Where do you see the administration at this moment?

00:32:38.280 Well, the posture they seem to have right now is one that the president is not going to allow

00:32:45.980 someone to lawlessly and illegally steal the powers of the presidency or prevent him from

00:32:51.460 using them.

00:32:52.260 That seems to me to be abundantly clear.

00:32:54.920 So that's a very good sign.

00:32:56.500 That's a very good posture to see because it tells you where they are fundamentally on the

00:33:00.760 use of presidential power and on their deference to the Constitution, which only gives presidential

00:33:05.880 power to the president as a legal matter.

00:33:08.760 I think they've pretty deftly handled it so far.

00:33:12.520 In the example of this case with the Venezuelans, you had a judge trying to order aircraft around.

00:33:18.460 Stephen Miller made a great point. 1.00

00:33:20.100 Like, you idiot. 1.00

00:33:21.540 Do you have any idea what that could have done? 1.00

00:33:24.040 How much fuel was on that plane?

00:33:25.740 Right.

00:33:26.020 Did it have enough fuel only to land and come back?

00:33:28.460 If you had ordered it to turn around, were you confident that would even be able to make

00:33:33.800 the trip back?

00:33:34.920 Of course he wasn't.

00:33:35.720 Of course he didn't have that knowledge.

00:33:37.380 But what they said in that case was, first off, when your written order, which is all

00:33:42.460 that matters, came down, those planes were already outside of the United States.

00:33:46.440 So the people had been removed at that point.

00:33:50.020 They're out of your jurisdiction.

00:33:51.440 Number two, the president has authorities beyond statutory authorities given to him by a particular

00:33:58.100 act.

00:33:58.940 He has core war powers and core foreign policy powers that are not implicated by the law.

00:34:05.880 And the judge has no authority to rebuke those.

00:34:11.000 And so therefore, they argued, we actually didn't defy you at all.

00:34:14.900 You gave an order.

00:34:16.240 Where we were able to comply with it, we did.

00:34:19.040 And where you did not have authority to do it, we did not recognize that authority.

00:34:24.000 And so I don't think we're at the point yet where it's come to a head.

00:34:27.760 But I think they're definitely handling it.

00:34:30.080 It's going to come to a head, I think, as these progress and these judges are more and

00:34:35.600 more emboldened by John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett's refusal to rein them in.

00:34:41.140 And I think it's that refusal that's actually causing this constitutional crisis.

00:34:45.140 It's not Trump doing things that presidents have done for almost 250 years.

00:34:50.540 Well, Sean, I know that you had a limited amount of time to be with us today.

00:34:54.100 So I thank you a lot for making the time while you could.

00:34:57.140 Always appreciate you coming on.

00:34:59.620 Is there anything you want people to check out before you go?

00:35:02.060 Yeah, check us out at thefederalist.com.

00:35:04.200 You can find us on X at FDRLST, or you can find me there as well at Sean, S-E-A-N-M-D-A-V, 0.86

00:35:12.680 Sean M-D-A-V on X, where I like to have a lot of fun on there.

00:35:17.740 So if you want to be entertained and educated, follow along.

00:35:22.020 You've definitely been tearing it up the last few days.

00:35:24.500 So I appreciate you getting out there and fighting the good fight.

00:35:27.000 Well, same to you, sir.

00:35:28.060 Thank you.

00:35:28.800 All right.

00:35:29.160 Talk to you later.

00:35:29.660 All right, guys, obviously Sean will not be around to go through the questions of the

00:35:34.740 people here, but I will do that real quick in just a moment before we do.

00:35:39.720 Let me remind you that have the merch over at the Blaze Media merch store. 1.00

00:35:45.620 So if you are interested in supporting the show, you can pick up hats, mugs, T-shirts,

00:35:51.660 all kinds of stuff.

00:35:52.860 Really appreciate it, guys.

00:35:54.400 Keeps everything going here.

00:35:56.440 Give me one second and we will move on to the questions of the people.

00:36:04.200 Oh, someone has pointed out that I have been muted the whole time I was trying to answer

00:36:09.260 those super chats, which is extremely embarrassing, but there we go.

00:36:14.160 Okay.

00:36:14.660 So I took the merch ad off and I just kept going with the mute.

00:36:23.000 So here we go from the top so you can actually hear my answers.

00:36:27.180 Very sorry about that.

00:36:29.040 All right.

00:36:29.920 So like I was saying, OGC in New York City.

00:36:35.260 Thank you very much, Gabby from Lindbergh.

00:36:37.920 And please make sure if you are a young man in New York City or you just want to find other

00:36:44.720 conservatives so you can get together and do something positive, have good camaraderie.

00:36:49.640 That's what the OGC is for.

00:36:51.280 I was addressing Philosophical Thirstworm's point about California, that ultimately California

00:36:58.260 has been turned blue by the justices.

00:37:01.700 I think you can just look at the fact that you had Proposition 8, the will of the people,

00:37:07.000 even in 2008, talking about how they were against gay marriage.

00:37:10.500 But ultimately, this gets overturned.

00:37:12.560 They don't really care about democracy.

00:37:14.560 It's just judicial fiat that ultimately advances their agenda.

00:37:17.860 When I was talking about Robert Weinsfeld's super chats here, as he pointed out that the

00:37:25.860 judiciary's ability to just override the president at any moment basically just obliterates all

00:37:30.860 constitutional order.

00:37:32.040 And it's really just about being a leftist.

00:37:34.100 That's what gives you the power as a justice.

00:37:36.280 You get this amazing ability to override any and all constitutional concerns.

00:37:41.140 When you just have the power of being a leftist, they'll cheer you on no matter what.

00:37:46.760 All right.

00:37:47.560 So thank you very much, Friendly, for letting me know that I was muted there.

00:37:55.200 CB also kind enough to let me know that I was muted while reading those.

00:37:59.920 There you go, guys.

00:38:01.180 The excitement of doing a live broadcast.

00:38:03.080 Sometimes you just click on the wrong buttons.

00:38:06.660 All right.

00:38:07.740 Well, looks like we will go ahead.

00:38:11.680 Everybody, we're back.

00:38:13.260 Thank you very much.

00:38:14.620 I appreciate it.

00:38:15.720 All right.

00:38:16.220 So glad we're able to remedy that.

00:38:19.680 Very glad that Sean was able to come on.

00:38:22.100 A fantastic guest.

00:38:23.220 Somebody who I think is always a strong voice on Twitter and has especially been good on

00:38:28.940 the judiciary here recently.

00:38:30.300 So I was glad he was able to make the time to come on.

00:38:33.700 If you would like to, or rather, if it's your first time on the YouTube channel and

00:38:38.860 you'd like to subscribe, now is a great time.

00:38:41.500 Make sure you click the bell on the notifications so you know when these shows go live.

00:38:46.180 If you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, make sure that you subscribe to the

00:38:49.900 Oren McIntyre show on your favorite podcast platform.

00:38:53.840 Again, if you'd like to support the show, you know that you got merch over at blazemedia.com.

00:38:58.720 You just click on the Oren McIntyre show and you'll be able to get any of those fine,

00:39:03.680 fine pieces of apparel that we displayed previously.

00:39:07.480 And if you'd like to pick up my book where I talk about many of these issues when it comes

00:39:11.740 to the need to understand constitutional power, why we have failed to limit the overreach

00:39:17.000 of the government, you can head to Barnes Noble, you can head to Amazon, you can go to any major

00:39:25.760 bookstore like Books A Million, and even order from your favorite local bookstore, The Total

00:39:30.800 State, my latest book.

00:39:32.160 It's both on audio and in print version.

00:39:34.800 Thank you everybody for watching and for staying through some technical mishaps.

00:39:40.740 Appreciate you guys.

00:39:41.740 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - March 19, 2025

Trump Defies Judicial Tyranny ｜ Guest： Sean Davis ｜ 3⧸19⧸25

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