Trump Slashes DEI and Anti-White Racism ｜ Guest： Jeremy Carl ｜ 1⧸24⧸25
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 4 minutes
Words per Minute
191.79216
Summary
On today's show, I'm joined by Jeremy Carl Levin, the conservative commentator who wrote the book Anti-White Discrimination: How Trump Is Winning the White House and is now the Deputy Chief of Staff to President Donald Trump.
Transcript
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Trump has, of course, come out of the gate with an absolute blitz of executive orders.
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We're seeing planes full of illegal immigrants going back.
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So many of these things that are just, have made American life unfair for many people,
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but very specifically have often targeted white Americans.
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And so I wanted to talk to the guy who wrote the book on anti-white discrimination and say,
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And that's the other thing that I think we'll get into today.
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Some of the people who are blackpilling, naysaying, oh, the executive is out of control.
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We're going to bore down into all of that because I think we're both more than fed up with
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Yeah, about a day and a half in, I actually did get tired of winning for a little bit.
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I mean, I took a little rest and now I'm ready to win again.
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Yeah, I had to sit down, have a glass of tea, take a second before we got back into it.
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You don't want to throw your back out for a week of winning.
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After conservatives not being able to win for most of my lifetime, this is a lot.
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All right, so, Jeremy, let's start out with kind of an overview,
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because you are somebody who was in the first Trump administration.
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You've got a long history in the conservative movement,
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working over at the Claremont Institute, you're a guy who's plugged in in a lot of ways.
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Many people thought that Trump's rhetoric would be good.
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Big promises, bombastic, setting that anchor, you know, the big ask.
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No one, I think, would expect anything less from Donald Trump.
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But it was the execution that everybody was worried about.
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Could he select the kind of personnel that could make this happen?
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Again, I know that you were more familiar with most with what was going on inside baseball,
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what a new Trump administration would look like.
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I mean, I think the appointment of Stephen Miller in the really key role that he is playing
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And again, he had a significant role in the first Trump administration, but a much bigger
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I think it was clear that people had learned from 2016.
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And this is just, you know, sort of for those of us who are Christians, I think this is kind
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of a great example of God's providence in some small way.
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And that I think had we just rolled in and won the last election, which, you know, in my view,
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it was, was, we did legitimately win it, but, but it was, it was sort of stolen from us.
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You know, we were kind of, it would have helped, but like, we just, we needed like four years
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to really just marinate, to see how ridiculous the left would be.
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And to, to essentially plot, I mean, to be, to be ready so that we were really ready to
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And I think what was really interesting also about these executive orders is that they
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I mean, not even in the conservative movement, I wasn't having my friends sort of whisper
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I mean, I did, I did talk to, you know, some folks who were involved in it, who I knew had
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But, you know, there are a lot of folks who I'm sure had a lot of influence, including
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many, I'm sure greater than me, but I think it's just sort of something was in the air
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and, and they really, they moved aggressively and they were ready.
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And, you know, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't want to speculate on, on kind of how many
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I's and we're dotted and T's we're crossed, but the fact that the Democrats aren't
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immediately crowing about, oh, you made 15, you know, errors that we're just going
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to exploit to get those thrown out indicates to me that these were much more carefully
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constructed than they were for the 2017 executive orders we saw.
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I got to say, as someone who really expected violence after the second victory of Donald
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Trump, watching the left just completely melt, they just completely fold in the scenario.
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They, it feels like they have no momentum, no passion, all of their, you know, they threw
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out, you know, the, the Roman gate with, with Elon Musk and even the ADL said, oh, calm
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Like, that's amazing that, that you have that kind of pivot in this moment.
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You can kind of tell that they're just lifeless and limp that their best thing is to call it
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They've called a Christian nationalist for years is like, well, he's not Christian enough.
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He, he sat down with the, the Bishop who talked about the importance of trans kids and
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he had made, made a funny face like that, that's really what they're going with at this
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And I, and I think I wasn't sure which way it would go after the election, right?
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Whether they would just turn the resistance up to 11 or whether I did actually sort of
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think that this was in the possibility set that frankly, having thrown every single ridiculous
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thing they could at Trump, having tried every illegal maneuver, having harassed, debanked,
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imprisoned, you know, you name it, the full court press from the media, seeing all that
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and the fact that at the end of the day it didn't work.
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And frankly, it didn't work pretty dramatically.
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I mean, this was a fairly decisive win for president Trump that they just in sort of in
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their heart of hearts, they kind of know that there's a deeper loss that they suffered
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And I think they're still sort of internalizing exactly what that means for them.
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I'm not seeing a lot of signs that they've really learned anything deep, but I think they've
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recognized at least that the playbook that they were trying was not sufficient.
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Yeah, it's important that you just pointed out that Trump didn't just limp across the
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finish line wounded after all of their attempts.
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He blew them out the back of the speakers, right?
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And you can see the coalition just turning in and itself and just, you know, when whatever
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energy they have, they're just kind of tried to point fingers afterwards and say, oh, well,
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you need to figure out how to talk to men more.
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Well, maybe we should try putting the woke away, as my friend Nina, Nima Parvini puts it.
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And we need to dial it up to 12 and we can't talk to men.
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Like they're just sniping at each other and they're, when they turn around and try to
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do anything to Trump, it's, it just, it was funny.
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You know, one of my favorite things is to watch liberal media when they're losing and
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you just get, you could hear during the inauguration, just all the commentators, their, their response
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was basically, well, well, Trump just did that.
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Like that's all they had was they, they couldn't even do their normal pearl clutching with any
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You know, so it was really amazing to just watch that all get sapped out of the room.
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You know, I gotta, I gotta ask, I know, again, they knew the administration knew going in
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that things needed to change, that they had to adjust their approach.
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But what do you think the role of the assassination attempt played on this?
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It really feels like that was a moment, not just spiritually, but also, you know, mentally
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and professionally, it just focused, you know, everyone locked in and said, this cannot happen.
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Well, I think it, it had a clear effect on Trump as I think it would for anybody.
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I mean, even Trump with all of his almost supernatural energy is, is a human, right?
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I mean, at the end of the day, you come that close to death, it's going to affect you.
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So I think it had an effect on Trump, but it also, as I think you were just alluding
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to, it really supercharged a lot of the followers to realize, you know, hey, we got to win this
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We're playing for keeps, you know, every card is on the table and we really just ran through
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And I do think that the left is, you know, they're sort of on the back foot as the British
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But, you know, I think at the same time, I've got to be honest, I would love to keep winning
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at this level for the next four years, I think we do have to be realistic that right
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They haven't had time to organize their resistance.
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I think they're going to be two really key moments that are kind of going to truly determine
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whether we're just getting some very nice wins.
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But we go back to something that is a little more resembling business as usual, or whether
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And the first of those is going to be when we start seeing liberal activist judges trying
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What is the response of the Trump administration going to be?
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What is the response of legal counsel going to be?
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Are we just going to roll over and say, ah, well, you know, a district judge in Seattle
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said no, so we have to throw out everything nationwide, or are we going to take a more
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And then I think the second thing that's almost even more important than that is just the creation
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of facts on the ground and making sure that we really have that full follow through.
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So, for example, in theory, we fired all these DEI people, or at least we're in the process
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They're all officially on leave, and I think they're about to be fired.
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You know, are the security clearances going to be gone?
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I mean, does that really, really happen so that we haven't just said the order, but those
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folks are really out of the government, and anything they do is trying to get back in,
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as opposed to, you know, we're sort of fighting them, but they're still in place.
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So I think let's watch what happens in the next few weeks, and we really need to make
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Now we've got to make sure that we execute on the consequences of those orders.
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Yeah, it really is a question of, did we just, you know, put a new coat of paint on the lawn
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furniture, or are we really rearranging things?
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And that was a lot of what I wanted to talk to you about, but let's, I guess, get into a
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few of the orders first before we analyze whether we think they're going to hold up or be executed
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I think, you know, obviously Trump made promises about militarizing the border and these kind
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And amazing to see him do those things, but we at least got the promise.
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The DEI one also, you know, I very much would have expected that to come.
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I got to say, birthright citizenship and affirmative action.
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Like, they were on my radar, a wish list, you know, hey, Orrin, if you were 15 slots down,
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But to see them dropped and dropped so early is really impressive.
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Maybe we could start with the affirmative action one, as this is something you've written
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We already got a court ruling saying affirmative action shouldn't be a part of a college entrance.
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So what does this affirmative action executive order do?
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Well, it essentially gets the government out of the affirmative action business period.
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And this was interesting because it was something, and this sort of points to the sort of structural
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Reagan wanted just, you know, 15 years after it had been implemented to kind of eliminate
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And he was sort of talked out of it by big business, who said, you know, they kind of
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It suggests that basically anybody who's doing business with the government and, you know,
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nobody shoot me here if I get all the legal details along, because, again, I'm not a lawyer.
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But basically, I mean, if you're doing business with the government now and you're engaging
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in these types of practices, you are potentially at risk.
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And certainly, at the very least, what it does is it just takes it off the table from anything
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And, you know, and I think there's no reason why it shouldn't.
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I mean, liberal judges can be so ridiculous that, I mean, we saw with DACA where Obama
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And the judge said, you can't withdraw this order, even though, of course, it was an illegal
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So I'm not sure what a legal judge, you know, on the left might do.
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But to me, there's no question the president does have the authority to withdraw this, you
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know, the Johnson administration's executive order on affirmative action.
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So the other big one that, again, was shocking to me was birthright citizenship.
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And this one is amazing on several levels, because not only does it obviously address
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a problem that we're facing right now, something that was always a perversion of the 14th
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But it was always a intentional perversion of the intention of the 14th Amendment, which
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was obviously to clarify that freed black slaves were indeed Americans.
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And going out of your way to warp that into the idea that anyone who happens to be here
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illegally, who has a baby, you know, for five minutes while they're here, immediately
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grand citizenship, that was always an insane thing.
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But not only do you solve this problem, it also throws a serious wrench into the left's
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larger plan of basically using demographic change to shift permanently the American democratic
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It was always the intention to basically leave the border open or allow a large amount of
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fraudulent visa immigration so that these people would come in.
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They're much more likely to vote Democrat once their children have become citizens and come
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That was always very clearly a big part of the Democrats' long-term generational strategy
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So not only are you improving the lives of Americans and everything else, but this is what Curtis
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Yarvin would call the real political win because it makes the next victory easier, right?
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You are ensuring future victories by getting this victory.
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And what do you think about its ability to stand up in court?
00:17:07.820
And I think as far as whether it's going to stand up, it's very interesting to see whether
00:17:12.680
the Supreme Court will have the backbone to do the right thing.
00:17:15.820
And of course, I entirely agree with your interpretation here of the 14th Amendment and what it did and
00:17:24.020
the perversion of it in Wong Kim Ark case of, I believe it was 1904, that the great Justice
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Harlan actually dissented from that kind of got us into the sort of more dubious interpretations
00:17:39.160
But I'll tell you, I mean, I think just as a note of caution, you know, I think what we're up against
00:17:45.200
to a degree, we've already seen this enjoined by a single district judge in Seattle, a Reagan appointee
00:17:57.520
But I assume like actually, I mean, I haven't looked in detail, but I assume not a guy who was just put in there
00:18:03.420
for a deal, but an actual guy who somebody thought was a conservative at some point.
00:18:07.640
And not only did he kind of throw this out, but he said, you know, this is ridiculous.
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It's like the most ridiculous thing I've seen in 40 years of judging.
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And I can't believe that that, you know, where are the White House lawyers who even looked at this?
00:18:23.400
And of course, I mean, this is just empirically wrong, right?
00:18:25.980
Like even if you take the other side of this question, there's been a very rich legal debate in the conservative
00:18:32.780
legal community over the last couple of decades on this very question.
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People have written, you know, papers on either side of it.
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But the fact that even a nominally conservative judge, or at least a Reagan appointed judge,
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would react to this with like shock and horror indicates that nothing is going to be fully secure
00:18:58.920
I hope we do get the right ruling, but I think it's going to be, you know, it'll be
00:19:03.380
interesting to see ultimately which way it goes.
00:19:07.080
But I will sort of parenthetically point out a kind of a thing that I'd said about these
00:19:13.860
orders in general, which I think is really important, which is no matter what we do, we
00:19:23.000
There's a lot of black pillars out there being like, ah, you know, Biden can just, or you're
00:19:27.460
not Biden, but whoever the next Democrat, you know, they can just rescind them.
00:19:31.720
But no, you know, with something like affirmative action or even this, all of a sudden, it's
00:19:36.240
a contested point where before it was sort of settled law, right?
00:19:41.100
And, you know, now every conservative congressman sort of needs to take a view on this, right?
00:19:47.700
And I think the vast majority of them are going to be on our side.
00:19:50.340
And so the left can't sleep as easy as they did before.
00:19:55.460
And for example, if you're looking to go into a DEI as a profession, are you going to feel
00:20:00.380
confident doing that now, knowing that the next time a Republican president comes in,
00:20:07.760
And so I think that even though these orders are subject to being overturned, the wins are
00:20:19.340
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00:20:30.300
Yeah, the idea that all of this has moved into contested territory again is very important.
00:20:39.740
Anything that is done with an executive order can be undone with an executive order.
00:20:44.140
In fact, that's the very basis of Trump's moves here.
00:20:47.020
And so you do need to find legislative avenues or more permanent ways to kind of put this
00:20:53.360
But again, the fact that none of this was on the table with Republican and that's a big
00:21:02.300
Most Republicans would not have even stated these positions.
00:21:07.140
I know Marco Rubio is getting better, but imagine Marco Rubio like saying this, you know, five
00:21:16.400
Like this would just had never been stated by a Republican politician, much less have
00:21:24.200
And as you say, now the question is, why aren't you with Donald Trump on this?
00:21:28.540
Give me the specific reason that you are not behind the guy who just had this miraculous
00:21:36.360
Like explain to me in detail why your position is the same as the left's position on this
00:21:42.980
And now is a great time, everybody, to politely but firmly bully all of your Republican commentators
00:21:56.400
I want to be really clear here because a lot of people, oh, you can, you need, don't, don't
00:22:05.860
No, that is the worst way to understand rhetoric and explain how these dynamics work.
00:22:16.380
You will never, ever see the window swing like this again.
00:22:27.140
They are what's good for the conservative movement.
00:22:29.380
And there is absolutely zero ground to stand on saying, oh, well, I got to hold back and
00:22:38.260
The principle is we are securing the border of the United States and the legal function
00:22:51.060
And I think one encouraging thing, and again, something that we can certainly use against
00:22:55.600
sort of some of the weak sisters in the party, is we are beginning to see some of the first
00:23:00.840
polling results from how people have thought about these initial executive orders.
00:23:06.080
Like it's not now, of course, again, I want to be fair.
00:23:10.900
Trump is in a little bit of a honeymoon, et cetera, et cetera.
00:23:13.360
But if people really hated this stuff, you know, you would still see it in the polling.
00:23:18.580
But in fact, what you're seeing is I just saw a recent, you know, polling that was like
00:23:23.620
52-42 for people, like what they thought about the executive orders.
00:23:28.100
Now, the Democrats certainly never waited until they had majority support for any of the outrageous
00:23:33.680
So I'm not suggesting that we somehow, you know, need to, you know, put our finger up in
00:23:37.900
the wind and make sure that we're at 50.1% before we do anything.
00:23:41.080
But I think the bottom line is the things that you just articulated are in fact popular
00:23:46.360
And that's just one more reason that we don't need to back off doing them.
00:23:55.040
There is no reason after having won this victory that you should back away.
00:24:00.000
And that takes me to our next topic that we were going to discuss, kind of the weak need
00:24:06.640
It's not much, I got to be honest, it's less than I thought, encouraging to see how many
00:24:12.300
people actually are moving this direction and taking the position you're talking about.
00:24:16.480
But in everything I post, in every video I make, in every article, I'm still getting
00:24:21.300
a few guys being like, this isn't conservative.
00:24:33.660
I mean, just, it's like, at some point, you just have to kind of excise these folks.
00:24:40.220
I keep hoping, I keep praying for the regeneration of National Review.
00:24:44.220
And maybe that's just, I'm too soft-hearted of a guy.
00:24:49.140
But like, it's just, they're like constitutionally addicted to losing or something.
00:24:54.620
And, you know, we're seeing this also with the executive order on the January 6th stuff,
00:24:59.280
which is, I mean, there's lots of reasons that you can give for why that blanket pardon
00:25:07.180
But the simple one is that you had blatant prosecutorial misconduct and judicial misconduct.
00:25:14.120
And so focusing on, oh, you know, well, this guy did something bad.
00:25:20.500
And by the way, the vast majority of those guys, they did do some prison time for it.
00:25:24.800
You know, it wasn't like they didn't get punished.
00:25:27.520
We're not just saying, ah, you know, like it's a mulligan if you hit a police officer.
00:25:31.420
No, I mean, that is behavior that should be punished.
00:25:34.180
But at a certain point, I mean, this is kind of a standard principle of American law.
00:25:40.680
And the left, of course, cheers this, where the guy was guilty, guilty, guilty, but the
00:25:45.860
prosecutors were guilty of misconduct, so you can't try the case.
00:25:57.880
And then, of course, you've got the James Lindseys and the Barry Weisses, who, to be fair,
00:26:02.920
at least they're not really claiming that they're conservatives, but they're quick to kind
00:26:07.060
of undermine, and they have influence, you know, with certain folks on the left, or the
00:26:11.660
Wall Street Journal editorial page, even, I think, you know, might be not so great on
00:26:15.820
But I think certainly our voters are with us on this question.
00:26:19.800
And again, we just, you know, at some point, we need to kind of make some hard choices about
00:26:27.600
But certainly the people who are making things difficult now don't get a seat at the table.
00:26:31.440
Yeah, I'd like to make it clear that John Schaefer, the legendary guitarist of Ice, Earth,
00:26:41.460
And so that is, you know, Mr. Trump has done a great service for fans of heavy metal.
00:26:51.320
You look at how the left treated BLM writers, right?
00:26:59.360
But even if they hit cops, and they, you know, destroyed buildings and stuff, they spent
00:27:05.260
Many of these guys were sitting in jail for years.
00:27:16.060
There was some kind of penalty for what they did.
00:27:19.880
And it's okay to just move on and recognize that ultimately, you know, the vast swath of this
00:27:24.920
was a political prosecution, people who did something wrong did pay some level penalty
00:27:30.080
But ultimately, you can't let this stuff stand.
00:27:32.300
You can't let people suffer like this under a political, you know, just the taint of everything
00:27:40.740
It sends a message that you are incredibly weak and the left can abuse the law, the DOJ
00:27:51.420
Now you've got the next step, which is, I think, an even harder step, but just as important
00:27:58.200
Like, I'm not saying just broad brush, but some of the prosecutors in these and other
00:28:02.560
cases and judges who completely abuse their authorities, they need to face legal consequences,
00:28:13.280
And Kurt, you know, he can kind of be a fun bomb thrower on X.
00:28:18.040
But whenever he gets into talking about legal things, I mean, he's a pretty high-end lawyer
00:28:23.720
And he actually had a little tweet, Twitter rant today where he was like, people who are
00:28:28.460
not lawyers, and trust me, you know, I appear before liberal judges all the time and deal
00:28:32.340
with liberal, you know, they have no idea just how many safeguards, systemic safeguards were
00:28:39.240
just completely obliterated in these trials, right?
00:28:42.980
And so when you have guys like Kurt, who, again, I think in legal stuff is not actually
00:28:49.200
a bomb thrower, saying this was just way above and beyond the pale of anything that could
00:28:54.740
be justified, you know, we have to take that seriously.
00:28:57.160
And there have to be consequences for people, not because there are political enemies.
00:29:02.160
I mean, I'm totally against, just because somebody agrees with me politically, that they
00:29:07.620
But because they broke the law in really serious ways, and because they damaged the system,
00:29:19.100
So one of the orders, obviously, was destroying DEI inside of the federal government.
00:29:28.220
One of the things we've seen in the attempt to, you know, quote, unquote, put the woke away
00:29:37.380
And I think some people pointed to the ATF specifically.
00:29:40.980
Once this order got, you know, what was signed or when, you know, they knew it was coming down
00:29:44.920
the pipeline, they started rearranging the deck chairs to, oh, well, it's the, these aren't
00:29:51.060
They're senior management positions of, I don't know, you know.
00:29:56.500
Because we, we know that we need to get a strong Senate confirmations, good leadership,
00:30:02.580
but the vast majority of the bureaucracy is still ensconced.
00:30:11.420
Can we get these people dug out without just burning some of these departments down?
00:30:19.220
And that's why I said right at the outset that I think it's so important that we not
00:30:22.980
just look now, but like two weeks from now, I mean, are these guys actually out of the
00:30:27.640
building or have we just shifted them somewhere else?
00:30:31.120
Now, again, I mean, I think the orders are really clear and certainly the rhetoric is really
00:30:36.160
But what I want to start seeing is like, yeah, you know, like they actually fired me and I'm
00:30:42.380
And I think that will, I mean, there may be a legal process that I'm not an expert in federal
00:30:48.260
employment law, so I'm not going to try to pretend to be one.
00:30:51.460
I'm sure that they've thought quite a bit about doing this in a way that's going to
00:30:57.060
But, you know, we should expect those sorts of pushbacks.
00:31:00.560
But it is so vital for us to be able to get control of the government and to exercise
00:31:06.580
the appropriate democratic authority, small d, that the voters have given us.
00:31:11.460
We have to be able to control the bureaucracy and make it do the things that the voters
00:31:20.160
And I think the way that we do that is you send a huge message to that mushy middle that
00:31:25.880
if you want to play with fire like these guys were doing, you're going to get burned.
00:31:29.300
And I think that's why, you know, you see this, there's this 10 day thing where, you know,
00:31:33.440
basically you can, you can turn in people who are trying to hide DEI employees under new
00:31:43.860
I think that's what you need because those people are not, it's wrong.
00:31:47.180
This is one thing I'm actually very passionate about.
00:31:49.100
We need to stop in terms of language using words like, or even allowing words like Trump
00:32:00.320
The reason why it's totally okay to be really, really hardcore and going after them is they
00:32:05.700
are subverting the entire democratic system when they do that.
00:32:11.000
The government, the people who have been elected are making governance choices.
00:32:15.500
Your job as a bureaucrat is to respect and implement those choices.
00:32:20.920
And if you're trying to subvert them, you're not against Trump.
00:32:25.620
And if you're going to be against our entire system, there've got to be real consequences
00:32:31.440
Now, one of the things I've seen that does worry me a little bit, and again, so many promises
00:32:37.640
This is not, this is kind of almost feels like Nick King to some level, but I am, I am concerned
00:32:43.160
on a few fronts and I think it's now is the time to voice them.
00:32:47.740
He's doing an amazing job, but one or two things that, that I don't like the look of that
00:32:52.160
I'm hoping that maybe we can hash out a little bit.
00:32:55.720
One of them is I was promised that the Department of Education was toast.
00:33:00.540
And this means a lot to me because I was a public school teacher and I went through public
00:33:06.040
I am a victim of the Department of Education in every way that one can imagine.
00:33:11.980
And, you know, Chris Ruffo was talking about, I believe the department, the deputy that was
00:33:18.580
going into Department of Education and people were concerned about her and actually she's
00:33:23.540
I trust Chris Ruffo on this stuff and, you know, he probably knows what he's talking about,
00:33:28.620
but I was promised a demolition of this department and you don't usually try to install the most
00:33:34.320
capable manager of a building you're planning to blow up.
00:33:42.140
I mean, again, the, the logistics involved with shutting down the department or what needs
00:33:48.800
to happen under what legal authorities, again, I don't want to kind of get out too much over
00:33:53.140
my skis, but I certainly hope that's something that we keep.
00:33:56.420
Everybody since Reagan has been promising to do that.
00:34:00.900
And again, I think DOE has been one of the biggest failures in terms of messaging on the
00:34:08.540
conservative end and that people don't even understand.
00:34:13.120
I mean, this isn't like we had this for 200 years, right?
00:34:16.460
Like in the beginning of my schooling, there was no Department of Education, you know, and
00:34:26.520
So, you know, I think, you know, we haven't gotten that message and we haven't, you know,
00:34:31.360
come up with like, to me, like just the clear winning messages.
00:34:34.180
We're going to take the vast majority of that funding because, you know, I'm sure there's
00:34:38.260
a little bit of that funding that should still go to, you know, something that the federal
00:34:42.700
government's checking, but it's done as some subset of another department.
00:34:46.780
But the vast majority of that money, we should just be handing it back to districts to hire
00:34:52.140
Like that to me is, or, you know, to give pay raises, whatever you want to do, right?
00:34:56.240
Like that, but I think just hiring teachers is probably a winning thing with voters.
00:35:00.980
I think if you put it that way, it's much harder to say, oh, well, you know, this is just
00:35:07.960
I think this would be a really winning message.
00:35:09.720
Um, but even in this administration, I don't know that we fully articulated, um, you know,
00:35:16.260
what we do, you know, do we just shut down the department of education?
00:35:22.020
I think you need to say, we're going to shut down the department of education.
00:35:24.600
We're going to take some of this money we saved and use it to improve your actual local
00:35:28.600
school in a way that the department of education wasn't doing.
00:35:31.920
And I think that sort of tangible improvement in a local school will resonate with voters.
00:35:37.860
If they need a messaging guy on this, let me know.
00:35:41.160
Like, like this is not the department of education.
00:35:47.280
It is a, is mandatory propaganda for the left across your entire nation.
00:35:53.680
Like it, it, it provably reduces the quality of education while spreading nothing but progressive
00:36:03.540
Like this, the purpose of the system is what it does, not what the label says in the same
00:36:08.980
way that my border, you know, border security was not securing the border.
00:36:12.180
And in my department of, uh, of defense was not defending my nation.
00:36:16.440
My department of education had no interest in actually educating my children.
00:36:19.940
Like, I, I think we can win this and we need to win this.
00:36:23.460
So like I said, just as, as somebody who was stuck in the system for so long, um, you know,
00:36:30.300
I, I really hope that they, they knock this one out, you know, so do I, the, the other
00:36:34.580
one that I, a little concerned about, um, and you know, we saw this, you know, uh, kind
00:36:39.460
of blow up over Christmas, uh, you know, Elon and Vivek who mysteriously is out of a lot
00:36:45.860
of this, uh, you know, best wishes, uh, Ohio, I hope, you know, you do, you do well over
00:36:50.100
there with Vivek, but, uh, but, but we had this, the showdown over kind of the H1B scenario,
00:36:57.140
Um, obviously we knew this was coming, this is kind of part of coalitional politics.
00:37:03.800
Uh, and so it shouldn't have been a surprise to anybody, even if they pulled it on Christmas,
00:37:08.940
but you know, uh, they, they should have recognized this, but you know, I feel like in some ways
00:37:14.540
that was a gift because, uh, it made it a very front and center issue going into the
00:37:19.680
Uh, guys like Vivek seem to come maybe take a hit out of it, but you know, so there,
00:37:23.700
there was a scenario where this, uh, they was, became hard to just kind of sneak this
00:37:28.300
However, between that and kind of the great Panda express battle on Twitter, uh, over,
00:37:33.000
over Americans should not worry about this tech jobs.
00:37:35.500
There's probably orange chicken to be fried somewhere.
00:37:37.960
Um, you know, yesterday, the Manhattan Institute was releasing papers about how we should be stapling
00:37:44.940
Uh, you know, everyone who has a kid, uh, while they're on H-1B visa, uh, it seems like
00:37:50.160
there's still this mentality in many parts of the Republican party, especially in the establishment,
00:37:55.660
you know, uh, is that actually the H-1B visa is a immigration program.
00:38:02.800
This is how we're going to bring people in the United States now.
00:38:05.240
Uh, and that is just not what people voted for.
00:38:09.940
So it's great, of course, to get rid of all the illegal immigration that's, that's like
00:38:16.860
I am more than, than happy to win 80% of the battle, but I don't want to pretend that
00:38:20.940
that last 20% is not, it seems like it's getting leveraged, you know, even after disasters
00:38:27.340
and bad messaging, it's still getting pushed by conservative establishment.
00:38:31.000
And that doesn't seem like people have learned their lesson.
00:38:35.440
I mean, I think, look, this is also going to be just a, it's going to be coalition politics.
00:38:40.860
Uh, they're going to be people with different views.
00:38:42.700
Um, Elon, thank you for having my account be one of the 950 that you follow.
00:38:52.900
Um, you know, I don't necessarily see totally eye to eye with him, obviously on this issue,
00:38:56.740
but I do think that he, he wound up at the end in a place that at least we can kind of
00:39:02.000
live with in a negotiation, which is like, okay, fine.
00:39:05.420
You know, but we just want to bring in the, like, what he really cares about is being
00:39:11.340
And you can argue about numbers or whatever else, but I feel like, you know, whether or
00:39:16.660
not, you know, look, I'm, I'm a net zero immigration person.
00:39:21.060
So like, you know, that's, that's my view, but within the realities of coalition politics,
00:39:25.600
I think the other key thing you said is 80% of it is the illegals, right?
00:39:30.120
So let's get, if, if tech wants its top engineers, let's get their help, or at least not them
00:39:38.320
obstructing as they've done in the past on, let's get rid of these illegals, right?
00:39:43.060
And really crack down and then let's take what's left.
00:39:48.340
And if, if tech is helpful there, you know, I think for, as they compromise, again, I want
00:39:54.760
I can live with a more limited and not just targeted in India, which it functionally basically
00:40:00.740
is right now, H1B type program that really brings us a smaller number of truly elite engineers
00:40:09.180
that, you know, might be kind of a net benefit to society.
00:40:13.820
Again, that's the type of compromise and coalition politics that I can live with, but you're right
00:40:22.220
Right. And I think, you know, from, from my perspective, the fact that we had this argument
00:40:27.320
People, people saw where the electric wires were.
00:40:30.120
I think the tech bros were kind of taken a little bit of back, but I think message delivered
00:40:36.660
And that's great that this is a really core issue with us.
00:40:42.960
And that if they want any help on some of the parts of the immigration issue that are important
00:40:49.280
to them, that they're going to have to help us on the much bigger parts of the immigration
00:40:56.660
You know, I'm not deep in the, in the weeds and I'm not the biggest wonk, but maybe this
00:41:02.960
I mean, if you just put a hundred percent tax on a H1B position, right?
00:41:08.100
Like if this engineer is so valuable, then pay him the going rate and pay the government
00:41:16.880
You can't operate a company without him pay a hundred percent tax and invest that money
00:41:23.720
You're benefiting Americans and you're giving tech access to what they say they want.
00:41:27.620
And if they're not after cheap labor, if they really need these super, just impressive
00:41:32.200
engineers, they're all just hiding somewhere in India and we got to go get them.
00:41:36.860
Well, then let's use that to then cultivate that strength inside our own country.
00:41:42.560
I mean, I know that they'd balk at that, but if they did, then that would make me feel
00:41:46.980
like they're not really telling the truth about what that is for.
00:41:51.660
And my, my good friend, Mark Kerkorian, who runs the center for immigration studies did
00:41:55.260
a piece where he sort of had three fundamental reforms.
00:41:58.660
And again, these are not new folks like me and I'm stealing them from people like Mark
00:42:05.940
But one of the simplest ones is a little bit along the lines of what you said, which
00:42:14.900
So rather than having what we have right now, which is this random lottery and all of a sudden
00:42:19.080
somebody is being paid $85,000 a year to come from India to manage your Panda Express or whatever
00:42:26.920
he's doing, or, you know, some low end coding work, you simply say, okay, you know, you want
00:42:32.160
these really top engineers, then pay them like top engineers.
00:42:35.640
And, and that's, you know, we have a fixed number and it's a lower number and, uh, you know,
00:42:42.960
So I think that's a version of what you're having.
00:42:45.760
I think maybe your version is, um, maybe slightly even more in reinforcing some of the things
00:42:51.220
that we would like to, uh, reinforce as a coalition, but I think that's ultimately just
00:42:57.560
I mean, this is where I do put on my politically realist hat.
00:43:00.300
It's just, this is going to be a negotiation and it's like, okay, you know, this is what
00:43:05.660
You know what we want, uh, as, as a lot of base voters.
00:43:08.520
So what is big tech going to bring to the party to help us?
00:43:11.900
That's going to, you know, make us cooperate with them to some degree.
00:43:15.560
But again, I mean, I want to be really realistic that a lot of these guys, whether or not the
00:43:20.780
base likes it, I mean, they're, they're not going away.
00:43:28.520
And I think it's kind of a fantasy world to just, you know, pretend that Trump is, none
00:43:34.820
So the question is what's, you know, this is the art of the deal.
00:43:37.180
What's the best deal that we can get on behalf of the American people that these guys can
00:43:42.960
also live with and that we can go forward with as a winning coalition.
00:43:47.900
I think that we're living in the age of money power.
00:43:50.460
We're living in the age of the oligarch, whether you like that or not.
00:43:53.260
And so the question isn't, are you going to get oligarchy, which oligarchy are you going
00:43:57.300
Are you going to get oligarchs that are at least you have a seat at the table with them?
00:44:00.620
Or are you going to get guys that couldn't care less and tell you to go pound sand and put
00:44:04.660
Like, yeah, I like, I like Elon, Elon has done a lot of great things, having a huge role
00:44:16.920
And, you know, other people also get a voice and we'll just, we'll come out.
00:44:20.000
As you said, I think it is right to probably say we're in the age of the oligarch for better
00:44:24.500
And we need to adjust to that and just go forward on that basis.
00:44:29.400
Now, that brings me to my last question, which I think is important because we've already
00:44:38.000
Like they're, they're knocked down, they're bleeding, you know, they don't look like they
00:44:43.260
However, you know, these are people who are rabid and they will, once they find their feet,
00:44:50.380
And so the thing that I think is the most likely, because a lot of people are speculating,
00:44:59.860
What does the political formula look like for these guys?
00:45:02.480
And my instinct is that if the, the standard of living for the average person, you know,
00:45:10.500
kind of, kind of the, the, the quality of life for the average person doesn't improve
00:45:16.200
And I think it will, because I think, you know, deportations and other things will have
00:45:20.120
However, you know, it sounds like we're going to be printing a lot of money.
00:45:23.640
It sounds like we're still going to try to make wall street pretty happy, which means
00:45:28.060
You know, like those are just some of the realities, probably not as bad.
00:45:31.280
Cause we're going to dial back some of the more egregious stuff, hopefully the, the foreign
00:45:35.120
wars and some of this stuff, but, but it's still going to exist.
00:45:38.320
And I think the line you've already heard the left test.
00:45:41.500
This is that the right is the, is the party of the oligarchs.
00:45:46.080
Now, of course, you know, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg 10 minutes ago, we're backing
00:45:51.420
every Democrat in sight, literally buying elections for them.
00:45:54.180
So, you know, that's, that's obviously disingenuous, but I feel like if they don't recognize, and
00:46:00.600
this is why I, you know, along with the fact that it's just morally correct and good for
00:46:04.980
the people in the United States, one of the reasons I'm pushing on the H1B stuff and some
00:46:09.380
of these other things so hard is that people need to appreciably feel the increase in their
00:46:16.720
standard of living so that that kind of class warfare argument doesn't gain traction.
00:46:21.740
If you don't make that change, if you allow good, good middle-class American jobs to go
00:46:28.940
to foreigners, inflation continues to move in the direction it's going, then people
00:46:34.160
aren't going to, you know, feel like there is a big change.
00:46:37.580
And then the argument about, oh, well, the left is saying that he's listening to all these
00:46:44.980
So if, you know, obviously, like you said, guys like Elon, huge contributors to the win,
00:46:51.500
They're obviously going to have a high degree of influence.
00:46:53.400
But if you don't want that to become a liability, I feel like the way to do that is to make sure
00:46:59.400
that the average person is like, well, yeah, Elon's got the ear of the president, but my
00:47:04.100
life has done nothing but improve because of that.
00:47:08.780
I mean, that's going to be the proof in the pudding.
00:47:10.920
I mean, you see the Democrats who hate everything we're doing.
00:47:13.520
They're desperately trying to just make it about that.
00:47:16.280
They're trying to say, well, you know, what's Trump doing about the price of groceries,
00:47:20.860
right, because that's they want to just pretend it's all about that and not about the fact that
00:47:25.280
they've, you know, been committing cultural arson for decades.
00:47:28.480
And now Trump is popular because he's pushing back against that.
00:47:32.240
But, yeah, we absolutely do need to make people's lives better.
00:47:35.140
And I think one of the chances, one of the opportunities we had, I just had a tweet about
00:47:39.340
this earlier that was got a little bit of attention where I was sort of saying, hey,
00:47:47.440
I mean, I think there's no question that, you know, part of the housing crunch we've had is we
00:47:53.560
have this massive increase in the illegal population.
00:47:56.520
And I think here's the sort of important subtlety here, right?
00:48:01.600
So for the most part, these guys were not having homes in Palo Alto or Malibu or wherever.
00:48:10.040
They were taking homes of working and middle class voters, you know, and maybe sometimes they
00:48:15.200
were eight to a home, which is another, you know, thing entirely.
00:48:18.740
But the sort of real estate that is going to be opened up if we really do anything resembling
00:48:24.620
mass deportations is going to be the sort that is going to benefit the bottom line of people
00:48:34.940
It's one of these things where there'll be a certain amount, if we do it right, of lying
00:48:38.780
with statistics, not on our side, but just because the statistics themselves will be a
00:48:43.200
little deceptive where you might see, oh, well, inflation is still going or this.
00:48:47.180
But if you actually look at the world of our core voters, the mass deportations and other
00:48:52.740
things we're doing will be a disproportionate amount of gains to them, right?
00:48:57.620
Whereas before the Democrats ran an economy that maybe it was doing fine on paper, but really
00:49:04.440
all the gains were to oligarchs, maybe we're going to have an economy that on a net basis
00:49:09.320
might not do any better, but the gains are going to be for our working and middle class
00:49:14.080
voters and the cultural gains will be for our working and middle class voters.
00:49:17.800
And we'll be able to come to them and say, hey, your life is better.
00:49:21.020
Oh, by the way, your life is also better because you're not being racially discriminated against
00:49:24.240
again and you don't have to go to these DEI commissars.
00:49:27.380
And I think just the cultural weight of that on you, I mean, it's so oppressive just lifting
00:49:32.020
that sort of stuff, I think we can deliver a lot of huge and tangible wins, even if money
00:49:40.220
printer go burr and we're going to have to deal with some of those things that will make
00:49:49.160
But I think it can definitely be good enough that that combined with some of these other
00:49:53.820
wins, our voters can be really happy if we do it well.
00:49:57.880
All of the economic data shows that the economic growth, the new job creation has gone to immigrants
00:50:07.780
It has not gone to the core population of the United States, citizens of the United States.
00:50:13.320
And so the fact that you are going to see those opportunities reopen for Americans, that
00:50:19.520
economic growth will go to Americans and that, like you said, the housing crisis will be eased
00:50:25.860
most effectively for working in middle class Americans means even if the inflation continues
00:50:31.360
at a pace that might not be ideal, the practical, you know, do I have a job opportunity?
00:50:38.660
You know, these things are going to be far more open to the average American.
00:50:43.040
And so I think ultimately you're right that that's going to look a lot better.
00:50:48.980
Well, we're going to pivot over to the questions of the people.
00:50:51.920
But before we do, Jeremy, where should people look for you, your work, your book, all of
00:50:58.860
So Real Jeremy Carl is my X slash Twitter feed.
00:51:03.360
You can join Elon Musk and the cool crowd if you follow me.
00:51:07.920
You can follow my sub stack, which is called The Course of Empire, jeremycarl.substack.com.
00:51:13.800
And my book, which is, you know, gotten a little bit of attention as of late, partially because
00:51:18.820
of some of these orders maybe looking suspiciously like a few folks had cracked my book.
00:51:23.980
The Unprotected Class is available at Amazon and Barnes and Noble and hopefully a fine local
00:51:30.840
bookstore near you if that's where your proclivities lie.
00:51:35.420
It's very encouraging that, you know, these guys were familiar with the issues because
00:51:46.540
So let's bring Anon reviewer on here real quick.
00:51:49.900
He said, I'm glad that Trump freed Ross Ulbrich, but he also needs to pardon Douglas Mackey and
00:51:59.460
Dave Smith says that the best way to get something, that's the best way to get something to Trump.
00:52:04.280
Actually, as I've seen, Doug Mackey specifically said he did not want a pardon because he's hoping
00:52:10.420
that a good precedent will be set in his case because he absolutely does.
00:52:17.080
His charges are ridiculous, a complete violation of the First Amendment.
00:52:21.960
But it sounds like strategically he has asked not to receive a pardon.
00:52:28.080
I actually know some of the folks who are leading Doug's legal team, and he does not want
00:52:33.060
to be pardoned for just that reason because I think we have some degree of confidence that
00:52:37.400
we're going to win this case, that we certainly feel like we have the facts and law on our side
00:52:41.940
and that it will set a good free speech precedent.
00:52:45.960
If we somehow lose the case, I am confident that Trump is going to do the right thing and
00:52:50.380
that Douglas Mackey is not going to see the inside of a jail cell because it's one of the
00:52:54.840
more ridiculous cases of lawfare that was out there.
00:52:58.380
Yeah, I met him and his wife, and it's just absolutely insane that they're in this situation
00:53:06.400
I think it is very brave of him to say that the precedent is important.
00:53:09.900
And even though I could probably get a pardon, I'm going to see this.
00:53:12.820
And like you said, it is good to know that that is backstopped by the fact that if for
00:53:16.940
some reason there is a horrible, horrible miscarriage of justice, probably can get, you know, make
00:53:22.320
sure that that is not something that he ends up enduring.
00:53:26.540
Florida Henry says, so far, very happy, but Trump only won by 1.5% of the vote to an insane
00:53:34.460
When they come back, what's to stop them from going full Maoist?
00:53:42.080
It actually feeds a little bit into my kind of follow-up book that I'm working on right
00:53:48.900
And I think one of the interesting things, first of all, I'd say two things.
00:53:53.180
One is that even though we just got a relatively modest popular vote, when the electoral college
00:54:00.040
went, which is ultimately what really matters, was a little more decisive.
00:54:02.680
And I think the electoral college is clearly going our way, not just in general, but in very
00:54:10.240
We will probably add, without doing anything, like just at the next census, so just after
00:54:16.480
one more presidential election, we'll add like 12 or 13 more electoral votes to the solid
00:54:21.420
red tally just because of population movements.
00:54:25.280
If we manage to get illegal immigrants discounted from census apportionment, you can add another
00:54:33.400
So it could be very large, but essentially one of the things I'm going to argue in my
00:54:37.780
book is that, and I'm kind of arguing this in a bunch of talks I'm going to be giving
00:54:42.360
a number of universities over the next month, is if we really want to be that permanent majority
00:54:50.900
party, and I say permanent in quotes because there are no permanent majorities, but the sort
00:54:54.220
of natural majority party, let's say in the way that the Dems were from 1932 to 1968, what
00:55:00.360
needs to happen is we need to get more white voters because actually Trump, despite the
00:55:06.560
fact that white voters have been hugely discriminated against by the Democrats, performed slightly
00:55:13.060
And he saw these enormous gains among minority voters for him, particularly Latinos, where
00:55:24.480
I want as big and multi-ethnic a coalition as we can get.
00:55:27.760
I'm not in any way trying to discourage that, but when you look at where the real opportunity
00:55:32.080
to grow share are, especially given how anti-white the Democratic Party is, as I kind of document
00:55:38.380
in the unprotected class, the real target of opportunity is going to be among those white
00:55:45.280
And I think maybe, you don't want to speculate four years in advance, but a guy like J.D.
00:55:50.360
Vance might be able to reach some of those upscale white voters in a way that Trump had a harder
00:55:56.180
So I think that's an area that we're going to have to focus on because you're right.
00:56:00.080
I mean, if they, the questioner is right, like if the Dems take over, we're going to
00:56:05.340
But I, you know, I don't really think they held back much that they could have done.
00:56:10.680
So, you know, I'm not sure like it's going to be 50 times worse.
00:56:14.080
It'll just, wow, it'll suck again for four years.
00:56:16.080
But I do think that if we do things right, they'll be a little bit chastened because now
00:56:20.560
the people who were oppressing us realize that we're not afraid to hold the whip hand and
00:56:28.460
And I think that will incentivize a little bit more responsible behavior on their part.
00:56:39.100
And ultimately, yeah, I think that a guy like J.D. Vance is promising because he has
00:56:45.120
kind of the, you know, the Appalachian roots, but the Yale pedigree.
00:56:49.180
And that allows him to, you know, to probably make that case, like you said, to a lot of
00:56:53.020
people that might have had trouble with Trump to some degree or another, though, obviously
00:56:57.840
he still did amazing in the last election here.
00:57:09.420
We had some sweet tea, but yeah, we're prepared.
00:57:18.580
I hope we get some downstream positive effects here in New Zealand before we get eaten by
00:57:24.080
Yeah, I mean, the hope really is that this can't cascades.
00:57:27.380
And, you know, Steve Turley has has been talking about this as a global movement.
00:57:36.700
Obviously, you look at a place like the UK and they're, you know, they're having a big
00:57:41.980
But also just, you know, I know a lot of my friends in the UK, even though they have a
00:57:46.480
terrible government, they look at what's happening with Trump and they're like, we want that and
00:57:52.540
And when you see those wins, when you see that cascade, it encourages everybody else.
00:57:58.980
We're, you know, mainly considering the well-being of the United States.
00:58:02.780
But I certainly hope that my friends in other countries can benefit from these wins as they
00:58:15.020
And when you and when you do win, you show other people that winning is possible.
00:58:20.780
I mean, we had this to a small effect when we were looking at folks like Bukele and El
00:58:28.040
Where we're like, well, you know, we've got some problems, but we weren't nearly as in
00:58:35.600
So we want that and we have an infinitely high profile of the No Salvador.
00:58:40.880
So if we show that we can win, I think it stiffens the spines of folks throughout the
00:58:47.120
And I think that's just obviously a wonderful thing.
00:58:49.760
Yeah, it turns out you can just do things and then win and then people will like you.
00:58:55.840
And, you know, you also got Elon, which, you know, you know, obviously some disagreements
00:59:00.120
here, but ultimately Elon is also pushing in, you know, reform in the UK.
00:59:04.760
He's pushing the FD in Germany and, you know, he's a force, you know, so there is that
00:59:10.240
Well, I hope that, you know, helps people out in the long run.
00:59:15.900
Perspicacious Heretic says anything but conservative overreach.
00:59:19.260
I'd rather be hated and have every aspect of my family and community ruined.
00:59:34.960
If you are not willing to take the steps to conserve America, just stop calling yourself
00:59:41.680
No, and I'm glad, by the way, just to go back to something you had just said that you mentioned
00:59:46.160
Elon's support of AFD and talking about Germany and talking about grooming gangs in the UK.
00:59:52.600
And I say that to say, here's a very powerful guy that whether or not I happen to agree with
00:59:56.840
him in a micro sense on H1Bs is not some tech bro who's just totally not cognizant or caring
01:00:03.940
about some of these broader cultural issues affecting the West, right, or immigration issues.
01:00:10.040
And so I'm kind of like, this is a guy we ought to be able to do business with.
01:00:14.080
Like, if we can't, if we can't do business with the guy who's using the biggest account
01:00:18.140
on Twitter deserves at least one of the five biggest to say, we must vote AFD to save Germany,
01:00:22.860
then I think we're definitely in a purity spiral, right?
01:00:25.420
Like, and I'm just not a purity spiral or by nature.
01:00:34.680
You know, Zuckerberg, you know, is, you know, is a soulless lizard person who censors everything.
01:00:45.860
He's doing BJJ, you know, like wherever the wind's blowing, that's where he's going.
01:00:49.500
Elon's a little different, you know, so don't just paint with the same brush there.
01:00:52.980
Prooper Weirdo says, to my friends, here, find a mirror, look into it and repeat after me,
01:01:03.180
And then he also says, from Panama to Mars, the future is ours.
01:01:09.560
And then Life of Brain says, when does rubber meet the road, read the economic populist issues?
01:01:15.280
DI is a good start, but how do you see the real Bannon-Rufo fight going down?
01:01:25.860
Again, I, you know, like, you know, I want to be careful, guys.
01:01:29.560
Like, we need to apply friendly pressure, okay?
01:01:34.400
This doesn't mean go out and shoot your friends.
01:01:43.620
He is one of the most effective conservative activists of all time.
01:01:50.760
And then people let me know I was wrong about stuff, and I learned lessons, and then I moved forward.
01:02:01.340
But don't go and burn down all of your bridges on one thing.
01:02:15.820
But don't burn things down just for the sake of burning them down.
01:02:26.480
This is so important, and I feel like you and I are probably, you know, saying this on Twitter regularly.
01:02:31.000
But, yes, it's okay to win, and we've won, and we need to stop acting.
01:02:35.400
We don't want to be addicted to being dissidents.
01:02:37.220
We actually would like to be winners, and that's a good thing.
01:02:40.420
And I think with the specifics of kind of the ban, and I mean, it's not getting as much attention right now.
01:02:46.180
But I think the tariff issue, if we get any sort of traction on this, this can be hugely, hugely beneficial for things like American manufacturing.
01:02:55.820
And, again, that's something where you're not just going to have to be able to look at some raw GDP number.
01:03:01.280
Maybe it doesn't move raw GDP in some dramatic way.
01:03:04.720
But in terms of working in middle-class Americans, opening up manufacturing jobs, opening up reshoring a lot of those kind of middle-class jobs can be a huge benefit for people who either are our voters right now or for people who we would like to have as our voters.
01:03:20.460
So I think that's one of the ways this could play out.
01:03:24.980
Well, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.
01:03:29.040
If for some reason you have not read The Unprotected Class, you should do that.
01:03:33.580
And very importantly, hand it to, you know, the guy just slightly to your left who you think might be open to this kind of thing, might be ready to hear a little bit more, you know, was worried that the bomb throwers were the only people making this argument.
01:03:48.520
You hand them a book like that and, you know, they can be a little more comfortable discussing a difficult issue and addressing it.
01:03:55.320
Of course, if it's your first time on this channel, make sure you're subscribing, click the bell, notification, all that stuff so you know when we're going live.
01:04:03.260
If you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, subscribe to The Oren McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.
01:04:09.080
When you do leave the rating or review, it really helps with the algorithm magic.
01:04:12.720
And if you want to pick up my book, it's finally out on audiobook after a long slog.
01:04:17.020
The Total State, you can go and listen to it or, of course, pick it up in a physical copy as well.