The Auron MacIntyre Show - Trump Slashes DEI and Anti-White Racism ｜ Guest： Jeremy Carl ｜ 1⧸24⧸25

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.720 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.400 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.560 Trump has, of course, come out of the gate with an absolute blitz of executive orders.

00:00:43.460 We're seeing planes full of illegal immigrants going back.

00:00:46.700 Birthright citizenship is being challenged.

00:00:49.760 Affirmative action has been struck down.

00:00:52.520 DEI.

00:00:53.080 So many of these things that are just, have made American life unfair for many people,

00:00:59.080 but very specifically have often targeted white Americans.

00:01:03.320 And so I wanted to talk to the guy who wrote the book on anti-white discrimination and say,

00:01:08.900 what do these executive orders look like?

00:01:12.460 Do they look promising?

00:01:13.380 Is the battle won?

00:01:14.320 Is there more to do?

00:01:15.520 What is the sustainability of this?

00:01:17.180 And what does the future look like?

00:01:18.860 So joining me today is Jeremy Carl.

00:01:21.400 Thanks for coming on, man.

00:01:22.860 Thanks so much for having me, Aaron.

00:01:24.100 And it's been a really great last few days.

00:01:27.000 Yeah, it's been a wonderful time to win.

00:01:29.420 And that's the other thing that I think we'll get into today.

00:01:32.300 Some of the people who are blackpilling, naysaying, oh, the executive is out of control.

00:01:36.940 This isn't conservatism.

00:01:38.540 We're going to bore down into all of that because I think we're both more than fed up with 0.99

00:01:42.500 hearing all that garbage.

00:01:44.320 Yeah, about a day and a half in, I actually did get tired of winning for a little bit.

00:01:50.480 I mean, I took a little rest and now I'm ready to win again.

00:01:54.240 But it just was really too much.

00:01:57.020 It was too good.

00:01:58.040 Yeah, I had to sit down, have a glass of tea, take a second before we got back into it.

00:02:03.160 You don't want to throw your back out for a week of winning.

00:02:06.260 After conservatives not being able to win for most of my lifetime, this is a lot.

00:02:10.960 We haven't exercised these muscles, you know?

00:02:13.700 Exactly.

00:02:14.360 Middle-aged guys.

00:02:16.580 So, yeah.

00:02:18.220 Atrophied, but now prepared to win.

00:02:20.980 All right, well, we're going to jump into all that, guys.

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00:03:24.660 All right, so, Jeremy, let's start out with kind of an overview,

00:03:28.020 because you are somebody who was in the first Trump administration.

00:03:31.900 You've got a long history in the conservative movement,

00:03:34.280 working over at the Claremont Institute, you're a guy who's plugged in in a lot of ways.

00:03:39.940 Many people thought that Trump's rhetoric would be good.

00:03:43.280 They expected good rhetoric from Trump.

00:03:45.200 Big promises, bombastic, setting that anchor, you know, the big ask.

00:03:49.300 He knows what he's doing there.

00:03:50.700 No one, I think, would expect anything less from Donald Trump.

00:03:54.840 But it was the execution that everybody was worried about.

00:03:58.120 Had he learned his lesson?

00:04:00.400 Did he recognize the challenges he was facing?

00:04:02.900 Could he select the kind of personnel that could make this happen?

00:04:07.780 Again, I know that you were more familiar with most with what was going on inside baseball,

00:04:12.920 what a new Trump administration would look like.

00:04:15.560 But is this what you expected?

00:04:17.040 Is it beyond your expectations?

00:04:18.660 What do you think?

00:04:20.500 No, it definitely exceeded my expectations.

00:04:22.740 And I thought things would be better.

00:04:24.440 I mean, I think the appointment of Stephen Miller in the really key role that he is playing

00:04:29.860 as essentially deputy chief of staff.

00:04:31.700 And again, he had a significant role in the first Trump administration, but a much bigger

00:04:35.700 one this time.

00:04:37.260 I think it was clear that people had learned from 2016.

00:04:42.060 And this is just, you know, sort of for those of us who are Christians, I think this is kind

00:04:45.720 of a great example of God's providence in some small way.

00:04:48.800 And that I think had we just rolled in and won the last election, which, you know, in my view,

00:04:53.860 it was, was, we did legitimately win it, but, but it was, it was sort of stolen from us.

00:04:58.760 We would have been in a much worse situation.

00:05:00.840 You know, we were kind of, it would have helped, but like, we just, we needed like four years 0.91

00:05:05.920 to really just marinate, to see how ridiculous the left would be.

00:05:10.300 And to, to essentially plot, I mean, to be, to be ready so that we were really ready to 0.91

00:05:17.180 execute.

00:05:17.560 And I think what was really interesting also about these executive orders is that they

00:05:22.440 really didn't leak, right?

00:05:24.020 I mean, not even in the conservative movement, I wasn't having my friends sort of whisper

00:05:27.920 to me, oh, you know, it's, it's coming.

00:05:30.320 I mean, I did, I did talk to, you know, some folks who were involved in it, who I knew had

00:05:36.180 read the unprotected class and that's great.

00:05:39.400 But, you know, there are a lot of folks who I'm sure had a lot of influence, including

00:05:43.500 many, I'm sure greater than me, but I think it's just sort of something was in the air

00:05:47.560 and, and they really, they moved aggressively and they were ready.

00:05:50.960 And, you know, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't want to speculate on, on kind of how many

00:05:55.160 I's and we're dotted and T's we're crossed, but the fact that the Democrats aren't

00:05:59.660 immediately crowing about, oh, you made 15, you know, errors that we're just going

00:06:05.220 to exploit to get those thrown out indicates to me that these were much more carefully

00:06:09.840 constructed than they were for the 2017 executive orders we saw.

00:06:14.280 Yeah.

00:06:14.940 I got to say, as someone who really expected violence after the second victory of Donald

00:06:20.940 Trump, watching the left just completely melt, they just completely fold in the scenario.

00:06:27.820 They, it feels like they have no momentum, no passion, all of their, you know, they threw

00:06:32.680 out, you know, the, the Roman gate with, with Elon Musk and even the ADL said, oh, calm

00:06:38.540 down guys.

00:06:39.080 He's obviously just a spurg, right? 1.00

00:06:40.740 Like, that's amazing that, that you have that kind of pivot in this moment.

00:06:45.920 You can kind of tell that they're just lifeless and limp that their best thing is to call it

00:06:50.860 the guy.

00:06:51.200 They've called a Christian nationalist for years is like, well, he's not Christian enough. 0.54

00:06:55.780 He, he sat down with the, the Bishop who talked about the importance of trans kids and

00:07:00.140 he had made, made a funny face like that, that's really what they're going with at this

00:07:04.140 point.

00:07:04.460 Right.

00:07:05.100 So, so called Bishop.

00:07:06.240 I have to, to put that in there.

00:07:07.780 Yeah.

00:07:07.960 Yeah.

00:07:08.100 Fair enough.

00:07:08.780 I'm not Episcopalian.

00:07:10.260 So I don't have to pretend either way.

00:07:12.340 Anyway.

00:07:14.460 Yes.

00:07:15.140 I think it is interesting.

00:07:16.360 And I, and I think I wasn't sure which way it would go after the election, right?

00:07:20.660 Whether they would just turn the resistance up to 11 or whether I did actually sort of

00:07:26.800 think that this was in the possibility set that frankly, having thrown every single ridiculous

00:07:32.260 thing they could at Trump, having tried every illegal maneuver, having harassed, debanked,

00:07:38.760 imprisoned, you know, you name it, the full court press from the media, seeing all that

00:07:45.020 and the fact that at the end of the day it didn't work.

00:07:47.080 And frankly, it didn't work pretty dramatically.

00:07:48.540 I mean, this was a fairly decisive win for president Trump that they just in sort of in

00:07:56.180 their heart of hearts, they kind of know that there's a deeper loss that they suffered

00:08:02.860 here.

00:08:04.420 And I think they're still sort of internalizing exactly what that means for them.

00:08:08.800 I'm not seeing a lot of signs that they've really learned anything deep, but I think they've

00:08:12.900 recognized at least that the playbook that they were trying was not sufficient.

00:08:18.540 Yeah, it's important that you just pointed out that Trump didn't just limp across the

00:08:23.620 finish line wounded after all of their attempts.

00:08:26.320 He blew them out the back of the speakers, right?

00:08:28.480 Like this was a huge win across the board.

00:08:32.180 And you can see the coalition just turning in and itself and just, you know, when whatever

00:08:38.220 energy they have, they're just kind of tried to point fingers afterwards and say, oh, well,

00:08:42.820 you need to figure out how to talk to men more.

00:08:45.240 Well, maybe we should try putting the woke away, as my friend Nina, Nima Parvini puts it.

00:08:49.540 And others saying, no, we can't.

00:08:50.700 That's a betrayal.

00:08:51.480 And we need to dial it up to 12 and we can't talk to men. 0.92

00:08:54.740 They're the root of all.

00:08:55.680 Like they're just sniping at each other and they're, when they turn around and try to

00:09:00.340 do anything to Trump, it's, it just, it was funny.

00:09:03.020 You know, one of my favorite things is to watch liberal media when they're losing and

00:09:07.300 you just get, you could hear during the inauguration, just all the commentators, their, their response

00:09:14.060 was basically, well, well, Trump just did that.

00:09:17.220 Well, look at that there.

00:09:18.440 Like that's all they had was they, they couldn't even do their normal pearl clutching with any

00:09:22.560 real vigor.

00:09:24.460 You know, so it was really amazing to just watch that all get sapped out of the room.

00:09:29.140 You know, I gotta, I gotta ask, I know, again, they knew the administration knew going in

00:09:36.100 that things needed to change, that they had to adjust their approach.

00:09:39.620 They had to take things more seriously.

00:09:40.840 They had to be more disciplined.

00:09:42.400 But what do you think the role of the assassination attempt played on this?

00:09:46.800 It really feels like that was a moment, not just spiritually, but also, you know, mentally

00:09:52.700 and professionally, it just focused, you know, everyone locked in and said, this cannot happen.

00:09:58.220 We have to be real about this.

00:10:00.800 Well, I think it, it had a clear effect on Trump as I think it would for anybody.

00:10:04.420 I mean, even Trump with all of his almost supernatural energy is, is a human, right?

00:10:09.740 I mean, at the end of the day, you come that close to death, it's going to affect you.

00:10:13.720 So I think it had an effect on Trump, but it also, as I think you were just alluding

00:10:16.860 to, it really supercharged a lot of the followers to realize, you know, hey, we got to win this

00:10:22.480 thing.

00:10:23.240 We're playing for keeps, you know, every card is on the table and we really just ran through

00:10:29.040 the tape.

00:10:29.560 And I do think that the left is, you know, they're sort of on the back foot as the British 0.99

00:10:35.260 like to say.

00:10:36.680 But, you know, I think at the same time, I've got to be honest, I would love to keep winning

00:10:40.860 at this level for the next four years, I think we do have to be realistic that right

00:10:44.700 now we are probably at a high point.

00:10:47.680 The left has been hit with so many things.

00:10:49.720 They haven't had time to organize their resistance.

00:10:52.920 They will.

00:10:53.800 I think they're going to be two really key moments that are kind of going to truly determine

00:10:58.760 whether we're just getting some very nice wins.

00:11:01.880 But we go back to something that is a little more resembling business as usual, or whether

00:11:07.120 we have a truly revolutionary paradigm shift.

00:11:09.560 And the first of those is going to be when we start seeing liberal activist judges trying

00:11:15.940 to overturn some of these rules.

00:11:17.800 What is the response of the Trump administration going to be?

00:11:21.500 What is the response of legal counsel going to be?

00:11:24.020 Are we just going to roll over and say, ah, well, you know, a district judge in Seattle

00:11:27.380 said no, so we have to throw out everything nationwide, or are we going to take a more

00:11:32.400 aggressive legal strategy, as I hope we do?

00:11:35.660 And then I think the second thing that's almost even more important than that is just the creation

00:11:39.580 of facts on the ground and making sure that we really have that full follow through.

00:11:43.640 So, for example, in theory, we fired all these DEI people, or at least we're in the process

00:11:48.720 of doing that.

00:11:49.340 They're all officially on leave, and I think they're about to be fired.

00:11:52.860 You know, are the security clearances going to be gone?

00:11:56.340 Are the door codes going to be gone?

00:11:58.560 Are their desks going to be cleaned out?

00:12:00.540 I mean, does that really, really happen so that we haven't just said the order, but those

00:12:06.360 folks are really out of the government, and anything they do is trying to get back in,

00:12:12.380 as opposed to, you know, we're sort of fighting them, but they're still in place.

00:12:16.140 So I think let's watch what happens in the next few weeks, and we really need to make

00:12:21.300 sure we've executed on the orders.

00:12:23.000 Now we've got to make sure that we execute on the consequences of those orders.

00:12:28.400 Yeah, it really is a question of, did we just, you know, put a new coat of paint on the lawn

00:12:33.020 furniture, or are we really rearranging things?

00:12:35.640 And that was a lot of what I wanted to talk to you about, but let's, I guess, get into a

00:12:39.980 few of the orders first before we analyze whether we think they're going to hold up or be executed

00:12:44.880 on.

00:12:45.680 I think, you know, obviously Trump made promises about militarizing the border and these kind

00:12:51.780 of things early on, right?

00:12:53.160 And amazing to see him do those things, but we at least got the promise.

00:12:59.020 So there was some expectation.

00:13:01.380 The DEI one also, you know, I very much would have expected that to come.

00:13:05.200 I got to say, birthright citizenship and affirmative action.

00:13:10.600 Yeah.

00:13:10.860 I didn't even see those coming.

00:13:12.640 Like, they were on my radar, a wish list, you know, hey, Orrin, if you were 15 slots down,

00:13:18.400 what would you love to see Trump get to?

00:13:20.440 But to see them dropped and dropped so early is really impressive.

00:13:25.400 Maybe we could start with the affirmative action one, as this is something you've written

00:13:29.600 on in quite a bit of detail.

00:13:31.620 We already got a court ruling saying affirmative action shouldn't be a part of a college entrance.

00:13:38.500 So what does this affirmative action executive order do?

00:13:42.560 What role does that play?

00:13:44.560 Well, it essentially gets the government out of the affirmative action business period.

00:13:49.320 And this was interesting because it was something, and this sort of points to the sort of structural

00:13:53.740 fakeness that we've had in the party.

00:13:56.280 Reagan wanted just, you know, 15 years after it had been implemented to kind of eliminate

00:14:04.680 this affirmative action order.

00:14:06.140 And he was sort of talked out of it by big business, who said, you know, they kind of

00:14:10.600 put it in place at that point.

00:14:12.040 They didn't want to revisit it.

00:14:13.600 So Trump has been much more aggressive.

00:14:16.920 It suggests that basically anybody who's doing business with the government and, you know,

00:14:22.720 nobody shoot me here if I get all the legal details along, because, again, I'm not a lawyer.

00:14:27.060 But basically, I mean, if you're doing business with the government now and you're engaging

00:14:30.240 in these types of practices, you are potentially at risk.

00:14:34.200 And certainly, at the very least, what it does is it just takes it off the table from anything

00:14:39.540 the federal government is doing.

00:14:41.460 And so in that sense, it's really huge.

00:14:43.720 And, you know, and I think there's no reason why it shouldn't. 0.80

00:14:48.240 I mean, liberal judges can be so ridiculous that, I mean, we saw with DACA where Obama 0.71

00:14:54.040 put it in illegally and then we withdrew it. 0.95

00:14:56.560 And the judge said, you can't withdraw this order, even though, of course, it was an illegal

00:15:03.660 order in the first place.

00:15:04.600 So I'm not sure what a legal judge, you know, on the left might do.

00:15:10.120 But to me, there's no question the president does have the authority to withdraw this, you

00:15:15.340 know, the Johnson administration's executive order on affirmative action.

00:15:19.000 And it's huge that he's done so.

00:15:22.780 So the other big one that, again, was shocking to me was birthright citizenship.

00:15:27.640 And this one is amazing on several levels, because not only does it obviously address

00:15:34.360 a problem that we're facing right now, something that was always a perversion of the 14th 0.61

00:15:39.280 Amendment, which is itself a mess.

00:15:41.340 But I've got an episode of that coming up.

00:15:43.900 But it was always a intentional perversion of the intention of the 14th Amendment, which

00:15:49.960 was obviously to clarify that freed black slaves were indeed Americans.

00:15:54.840 And going out of your way to warp that into the idea that anyone who happens to be here

00:16:01.400 illegally, who has a baby, you know, for five minutes while they're here, immediately

00:16:07.220 grand citizenship, that was always an insane thing.

00:16:10.420 But not only do you solve this problem, it also throws a serious wrench into the left's

00:16:16.200 larger plan of basically using demographic change to shift permanently the American democratic

00:16:23.320 process.

00:16:23.920 It was always the intention to basically leave the border open or allow a large amount of

00:16:28.980 fraudulent visa immigration so that these people would come in.

00:16:32.980 They're much more likely to vote Democrat once their children have become citizens and come

00:16:38.260 of age of voting.

00:16:39.420 That was always very clearly a big part of the Democrats' long-term generational strategy

00:16:44.520 for victory in the United States.

00:16:46.660 So not only are you improving the lives of Americans and everything else, but this is what Curtis

00:16:52.060 Yarvin would call the real political win because it makes the next victory easier, right?

00:16:56.960 You are ensuring future victories by getting this victory.

00:17:01.740 What do you think about that order?

00:17:03.120 And what do you think about its ability to stand up in court?

00:17:05.900 Well, it's huge.

00:17:07.820 And I think as far as whether it's going to stand up, it's very interesting to see whether

00:17:12.680 the Supreme Court will have the backbone to do the right thing.

00:17:15.820 And of course, I entirely agree with your interpretation here of the 14th Amendment and what it did and

00:17:24.020 the perversion of it in Wong Kim Ark case of, I believe it was 1904, that the great Justice

00:17:30.020 Harlan actually dissented from that kind of got us into the sort of more dubious interpretations

00:17:35.820 that we've had ever since.

00:17:39.160 But I'll tell you, I mean, I think just as a note of caution, you know, I think what we're up against

00:17:45.200 to a degree, we've already seen this enjoined by a single district judge in Seattle, a Reagan appointee

00:17:53.000 and sort of an emeritus judge.

00:17:57.520 But I assume like actually, I mean, I haven't looked in detail, but I assume not a guy who was just put in there

00:18:03.420 for a deal, but an actual guy who somebody thought was a conservative at some point. 0.89

00:18:07.640 And not only did he kind of throw this out, but he said, you know, this is ridiculous. 0.98

00:18:12.220 It's like the most ridiculous thing I've seen in 40 years of judging. 0.92

00:18:16.460 And I can't believe that that, you know, where are the White House lawyers who even looked at this? 0.94

00:18:21.860 So he's very dismissive.

00:18:23.400 And of course, I mean, this is just empirically wrong, right?

00:18:25.980 Like even if you take the other side of this question, there's been a very rich legal debate in the conservative

00:18:32.780 legal community over the last couple of decades on this very question.

00:18:37.320 People have written, you know, papers on either side of it.

00:18:41.780 But the fact that even a nominally conservative judge, or at least a Reagan appointed judge,

00:18:48.100 would react to this with like shock and horror indicates that nothing is going to be fully secure

00:18:55.760 until it's ruled upon.

00:18:57.800 It's really important.

00:18:58.920 I hope we do get the right ruling, but I think it's going to be, you know, it'll be

00:19:03.380 interesting to see ultimately which way it goes.

00:19:07.080 But I will sort of parenthetically point out a kind of a thing that I'd said about these

00:19:13.860 orders in general, which I think is really important, which is no matter what we do, we

00:19:19.100 move this all into contested space.

00:19:21.680 And that's really important.

00:19:23.000 There's a lot of black pillars out there being like, ah, you know, Biden can just, or you're

00:19:27.460 not Biden, but whoever the next Democrat, you know, they can just rescind them.

00:19:31.720 But no, you know, with something like affirmative action or even this, all of a sudden, it's

00:19:36.240 a contested point where before it was sort of settled law, right?

00:19:41.100 And, you know, now every conservative congressman sort of needs to take a view on this, right?

00:19:47.700 And I think the vast majority of them are going to be on our side.

00:19:50.340 And so the left can't sleep as easy as they did before.

00:19:55.460 And for example, if you're looking to go into a DEI as a profession, are you going to feel

00:20:00.380 confident doing that now, knowing that the next time a Republican president comes in,

00:20:04.980 they may just yank that out from under you?

00:20:07.760 And so I think that even though these orders are subject to being overturned, the wins are

00:20:13.360 actually going to be quite durable.

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00:20:30.300 Yeah, the idea that all of this has moved into contested territory again is very important.

00:20:36.900 You know, a lot of people have made the point.

00:20:38.900 I've made the point.

00:20:39.740 Anything that is done with an executive order can be undone with an executive order.

00:20:44.140 In fact, that's the very basis of Trump's moves here.

00:20:47.020 And so you do need to find legislative avenues or more permanent ways to kind of put this

00:20:52.480 in place.

00:20:53.360 But again, the fact that none of this was on the table with Republican and that's a big

00:21:00.140 shift just in and of itself.

00:21:02.300 Most Republicans would not have even stated these positions.

00:21:06.620 Right.

00:21:07.140 I know Marco Rubio is getting better, but imagine Marco Rubio like saying this, you know, five

00:21:12.560 years ago, any of it.

00:21:13.800 Right.

00:21:14.140 Or Mitt Romney or any of these guys.

00:21:16.140 Right.

00:21:16.400 Like this would just had never been stated by a Republican politician, much less have

00:21:22.340 taken the action on it.

00:21:24.200 And as you say, now the question is, why aren't you with Donald Trump on this?

00:21:28.540 Give me the specific reason that you are not behind the guy who just had this miraculous

00:21:32.720 victory and has the massive wave of support.

00:21:36.360 Like explain to me in detail why your position is the same as the left's position on this

00:21:42.620 issue.

00:21:42.980 And now is a great time, everybody, to politely but firmly bully all of your Republican commentators

00:21:51.500 and politicians into these positions.

00:21:54.400 Now is not the time.

00:21:56.400 I want to be really clear here because a lot of people, oh, you can, you need, don't, don't

00:22:00.320 blow up this chance.

00:22:01.160 You got to be careful.

00:22:01.940 You got to step, you got tread lightly. 0.92

00:22:03.860 You don't want to say anything ridiculous.

00:22:05.860 No, that is the worst way to understand rhetoric and explain how these dynamics work. 0.75

00:22:12.500 Now is the time to push as far as possible.

00:22:16.380 You will never, ever see the window swing like this again.

00:22:21.500 Again, do not back off.

00:22:23.680 These are the correct positions.

00:22:25.520 They are what's good for the United States.

00:22:27.140 They are what's good for the conservative movement.

00:22:29.380 And there is absolutely zero ground to stand on saying, oh, well, I got to hold back and

00:22:35.940 I got, I'm principled.

00:22:37.200 I can't do it.

00:22:37.740 No, no.

00:22:38.260 The principle is we are securing the border of the United States and the legal function

00:22:42.940 of the United States for its people.

00:22:45.240 We are rescuing them from the left.

00:22:47.160 That is what we are doing.

00:22:49.780 Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

00:22:51.060 And I think one encouraging thing, and again, something that we can certainly use against

00:22:55.600 sort of some of the weak sisters in the party, is we are beginning to see some of the first 0.96

00:23:00.840 polling results from how people have thought about these initial executive orders.

00:23:04.580 And it's positive, right?

00:23:06.080 Like it's not now, of course, again, I want to be fair.

00:23:09.660 We're at a high watermark.

00:23:10.900 Trump is in a little bit of a honeymoon, et cetera, et cetera.

00:23:13.360 But if people really hated this stuff, you know, you would still see it in the polling.

00:23:18.580 But in fact, what you're seeing is I just saw a recent, you know, polling that was like

00:23:23.620 52-42 for people, like what they thought about the executive orders.

00:23:28.100 Now, the Democrats certainly never waited until they had majority support for any of the outrageous

00:23:32.200 stuff we've done.

00:23:33.120 They did.

00:23:33.680 So I'm not suggesting that we somehow, you know, need to, you know, put our finger up in

00:23:37.900 the wind and make sure that we're at 50.1% before we do anything.

00:23:41.080 But I think the bottom line is the things that you just articulated are in fact popular

00:23:45.920 things.

00:23:46.360 And that's just one more reason that we don't need to back off doing them.

00:23:49.960 Yeah.

00:23:50.440 People want to see the strong horse.

00:23:52.680 They want to follow the strong horse.

00:23:55.040 There is no reason after having won this victory that you should back away.

00:24:00.000 And that takes me to our next topic that we were going to discuss, kind of the weak need

00:24:05.020 that we're seeing a little bit here.

00:24:06.640 It's not much, I got to be honest, it's less than I thought, encouraging to see how many

00:24:12.300 people actually are moving this direction and taking the position you're talking about.

00:24:16.480 But in everything I post, in every video I make, in every article, I'm still getting

00:24:21.300 a few guys being like, this isn't conservative.

00:24:24.900 He's not being conservative.

00:24:27.100 Oh, executive overreach.

00:24:28.880 We can't do this.

00:24:30.920 What's your response to that?

00:24:33.400 Yeah.

00:24:33.660 I mean, just, it's like, at some point, you just have to kind of excise these folks.

00:24:38.420 It's painful.

00:24:39.620 I mean, a little bit.

00:24:40.220 I keep hoping, I keep praying for the regeneration of National Review.

00:24:44.220 And maybe that's just, I'm too soft-hearted of a guy.

00:24:47.400 I mean, I wrote for them for years, right?

00:24:49.140 But like, it's just, they're like constitutionally addicted to losing or something.

00:24:54.620 And, you know, we're seeing this also with the executive order on the January 6th stuff,

00:24:59.280 which is, I mean, there's lots of reasons that you can give for why that blanket pardon

00:25:05.380 was appropriate.

00:25:07.180 But the simple one is that you had blatant prosecutorial misconduct and judicial misconduct.

00:25:14.120 And so focusing on, oh, you know, well, this guy did something bad.

00:25:17.460 Yeah.

00:25:17.740 You know what?

00:25:18.060 Some of those guys did do some bad things.

00:25:20.500 And by the way, the vast majority of those guys, they did do some prison time for it.

00:25:24.800 You know, it wasn't like they didn't get punished.

00:25:27.520 We're not just saying, ah, you know, like it's a mulligan if you hit a police officer.

00:25:31.420 No, I mean, that is behavior that should be punished.

00:25:34.180 But at a certain point, I mean, this is kind of a standard principle of American law.

00:25:38.520 They throw out cases all the time.

00:25:40.680 And the left, of course, cheers this, where the guy was guilty, guilty, guilty, but the

00:25:45.860 prosecutors were guilty of misconduct, so you can't try the case.

00:25:49.800 Well, you had that en masse there.

00:25:52.500 And these are people who supported us.

00:25:55.040 So, of course, you're going to do it.

00:25:56.680 But just some people don't get it.

00:25:57.880 And then, of course, you've got the James Lindseys and the Barry Weisses, who, to be fair,

00:26:02.920 at least they're not really claiming that they're conservatives, but they're quick to kind

00:26:07.060 of undermine, and they have influence, you know, with certain folks on the left, or the

00:26:11.660 Wall Street Journal editorial page, even, I think, you know, might be not so great on

00:26:15.460 this.

00:26:15.820 But I think certainly our voters are with us on this question.

00:26:19.800 And again, we just, you know, at some point, we need to kind of make some hard choices about

00:26:25.700 what sort of alliances we're going to have.

00:26:27.600 But certainly the people who are making things difficult now don't get a seat at the table.

00:26:31.440 Yeah, I'd like to make it clear that John Schaefer, the legendary guitarist of Ice, Earth,

00:26:37.780 and Demons and Wizards, has been pardoned.

00:26:41.460 And so that is, you know, Mr. Trump has done a great service for fans of heavy metal.

00:26:46.540 Long may he record new albums.

00:26:49.180 But yeah, that's exactly right.

00:26:51.320 You look at how the left treated BLM writers, right?

00:26:54.380 Did some of them do prison time?

00:26:56.380 Sure, a few, very few of them.

00:26:58.020 But some of them did.

00:26:59.360 But even if they hit cops, and they, you know, destroyed buildings and stuff, they spent

00:27:03.080 four months, maybe six months in jail.

00:27:05.260 Many of these guys were sitting in jail for years.

00:27:08.100 It's over.

00:27:08.940 It's done.

00:27:09.700 There is no reason for this to continue.

00:27:12.560 They've done their time.

00:27:13.960 Penalty, you know, it's there.

00:27:16.060 There was some kind of penalty for what they did.

00:27:19.880 And it's okay to just move on and recognize that ultimately, you know, the vast swath of this

00:27:24.920 was a political prosecution, people who did something wrong did pay some level penalty

00:27:29.360 for it.

00:27:30.080 But ultimately, you can't let this stuff stand.

00:27:32.300 You can't let people suffer like this under a political, you know, just the taint of everything

00:27:39.120 involved with these trials.

00:27:40.740 It sends a message that you are incredibly weak and the left can abuse the law, the DOJ

00:27:45.840 at any moment.

00:27:47.360 You absolutely cannot let that continue.

00:27:50.760 Absolutely.

00:27:51.420 Now you've got the next step, which is, I think, an even harder step, but just as important

00:27:54.920 is in a careful way.

00:27:57.240 I want to say this, right?

00:27:58.200 Like, I'm not saying just broad brush, but some of the prosecutors in these and other

00:28:02.560 cases and judges who completely abuse their authorities, they need to face legal consequences,

00:28:10.300 right?

00:28:10.780 And you've got guys like Kurt Schleister.

00:28:13.280 And Kurt, you know, he can kind of be a fun bomb thrower on X.

00:28:18.040 But whenever he gets into talking about legal things, I mean, he's a pretty high-end lawyer

00:28:21.560 and he's actually a lot more careful.

00:28:23.720 And he actually had a little tweet, Twitter rant today where he was like, people who are

00:28:28.460 not lawyers, and trust me, you know, I appear before liberal judges all the time and deal

00:28:32.340 with liberal, you know, they have no idea just how many safeguards, systemic safeguards were

00:28:39.240 just completely obliterated in these trials, right?

00:28:42.980 And so when you have guys like Kurt, who, again, I think in legal stuff is not actually

00:28:49.200 a bomb thrower, saying this was just way above and beyond the pale of anything that could

00:28:54.740 be justified, you know, we have to take that seriously.

00:28:57.160 And there have to be consequences for people, not because there are political enemies.

00:29:02.160 I mean, I'm totally against, just because somebody agrees with me politically, that they

00:29:06.340 have to suffer some punishment.

00:29:07.620 But because they broke the law in really serious ways, and because they damaged the system,

00:29:12.220 and there needs to be accountability for that.

00:29:15.340 For my enemies of the law.

00:29:17.300 Yeah.

00:29:19.100 So one of the orders, obviously, was destroying DEI inside of the federal government.

00:29:26.660 We've talked a little bit about that.

00:29:28.220 One of the things we've seen in the attempt to, you know, quote, unquote, put the woke away 0.95

00:29:33.380 is rearranging positions and relabeling them.

00:29:37.380 And I think some people pointed to the ATF specifically.

00:29:40.980 Once this order got, you know, what was signed or when, you know, they knew it was coming down

00:29:44.920 the pipeline, they started rearranging the deck chairs to, oh, well, it's the, these aren't

00:29:49.360 our DEI officers.

00:29:51.060 They're senior management positions of, I don't know, you know.

00:29:54.000 And so what is your concern?

00:29:56.500 Because we, we know that we need to get a strong Senate confirmations, good leadership,

00:30:02.580 but the vast majority of the bureaucracy is still ensconced.

00:30:07.220 They're still anti-Trump.

00:30:08.820 They're still anti-conservative.

00:30:11.420 Can we get these people dug out without just burning some of these departments down?

00:30:16.200 What does that look like?

00:30:17.720 Well, we do need to set some examples.

00:30:19.220 And that's why I said right at the outset that I think it's so important that we not

00:30:22.980 just look now, but like two weeks from now, I mean, are these guys actually out of the

00:30:27.640 building or have we just shifted them somewhere else?

00:30:31.120 Now, again, I mean, I think the orders are really clear and certainly the rhetoric is really

00:30:34.040 clear that these guys are gone.

00:30:36.160 But what I want to start seeing is like, yeah, you know, like they actually fired me and I'm

00:30:40.880 really pissed off about it.

00:30:42.380 And I think that will, I mean, there may be a legal process that I'm not an expert in federal

00:30:48.260 employment law, so I'm not going to try to pretend to be one.

00:30:51.460 I'm sure that they've thought quite a bit about doing this in a way that's going to

00:30:55.400 stand legal scrutiny.

00:30:57.060 But, you know, we should expect those sorts of pushbacks.

00:31:00.560 But it is so vital for us to be able to get control of the government and to exercise

00:31:06.580 the appropriate democratic authority, small d, that the voters have given us.

00:31:11.460 We have to be able to control the bureaucracy and make it do the things that the voters

00:31:17.020 have entrusted us to carry out as policies.

00:31:20.160 And I think the way that we do that is you send a huge message to that mushy middle that

00:31:25.880 if you want to play with fire like these guys were doing, you're going to get burned.

00:31:29.300 And I think that's why, you know, you see this, there's this 10 day thing where, you know,

00:31:33.440 basically you can, you can turn in people who are trying to hide DEI employees under new

00:31:40.700 titles and there's no consequence.

00:31:42.180 But after that, there is a consequence.

00:31:43.860 I think that's what you need because those people are not, it's wrong.

00:31:47.180 This is one thing I'm actually very passionate about.

00:31:49.100 We need to stop in terms of language using words like, or even allowing words like Trump

00:31:54.100 proofing or anti-Trump.

00:31:55.620 It's anti-democracy.

00:31:57.180 We have been handed people who are doing that.

00:32:00.320 The reason why it's totally okay to be really, really hardcore and going after them is they

00:32:05.700 are subverting the entire democratic system when they do that.

00:32:08.800 We had an election.

00:32:11.000 The government, the people who have been elected are making governance choices.

00:32:15.500 Your job as a bureaucrat is to respect and implement those choices.

00:32:20.920 And if you're trying to subvert them, you're not against Trump.

00:32:24.120 You're against our entire system.

00:32:25.620 And if you're going to be against our entire system, there've got to be real consequences

00:32:29.800 for that.

00:32:31.440 Now, one of the things I've seen that does worry me a little bit, and again, so many promises

00:32:36.460 are kept at this point.

00:32:37.640 This is not, this is kind of almost feels like Nick King to some level, but I am, I am concerned

00:32:43.160 on a few fronts and I think it's now is the time to voice them.

00:32:46.240 I am not trying to be negative on Trump.

00:32:47.740 He's doing an amazing job, but one or two things that, that I don't like the look of that

00:32:52.160 I'm hoping that maybe we can hash out a little bit.

00:32:55.720 One of them is I was promised that the Department of Education was toast.

00:33:00.540 And this means a lot to me because I was a public school teacher and I went through public

00:33:05.180 school.

00:33:06.040 I am a victim of the Department of Education in every way that one can imagine.

00:33:10.020 This is a terrible organization.

00:33:11.980 And, you know, Chris Ruffo was talking about, I believe the department, the deputy that was

00:33:18.580 going into Department of Education and people were concerned about her and actually she's

00:33:22.140 okay.

00:33:22.620 And that's great.

00:33:23.540 I trust Chris Ruffo on this stuff and, you know, he probably knows what he's talking about,

00:33:28.620 but I was promised a demolition of this department and you don't usually try to install the most

00:33:34.320 capable manager of a building you're planning to blow up.

00:33:37.820 So what do you think's going on here?

00:33:39.720 Yeah, I don't know.

00:33:42.140 I mean, again, the, the logistics involved with shutting down the department or what needs

00:33:48.800 to happen under what legal authorities, again, I don't want to kind of get out too much over

00:33:53.140 my skis, but I certainly hope that's something that we keep.

00:33:56.420 Everybody since Reagan has been promising to do that.

00:33:59.520 Again, it's always been fake.

00:34:00.900 And again, I think DOE has been one of the biggest failures in terms of messaging on the

00:34:08.540 conservative end and that people don't even understand.

00:34:11.040 This was a creation of Jimmy Carter.

00:34:12.960 Okay.

00:34:13.120 I mean, this isn't like we had this for 200 years, right?

00:34:16.460 Like in the beginning of my schooling, there was no Department of Education, you know, and

00:34:21.520 somehow.

00:34:21.660 Which is why you can't read.

00:34:23.000 Nobody learned anything, right?

00:34:24.140 Exactly.

00:34:24.240 There was no education, right?

00:34:26.520 So, you know, I think, you know, we haven't gotten that message and we haven't, you know,

00:34:31.360 come up with like, to me, like just the clear winning messages.

00:34:34.180 We're going to take the vast majority of that funding because, you know, I'm sure there's

00:34:38.260 a little bit of that funding that should still go to, you know, something that the federal

00:34:42.700 government's checking, but it's done as some subset of another department.

00:34:45.900 Right.

00:34:46.780 But the vast majority of that money, we should just be handing it back to districts to hire

00:34:51.000 teachers, right?

00:34:51.920 Yes.

00:34:52.140 Like that to me is, or, you know, to give pay raises, whatever you want to do, right?

00:34:56.240 Like that, but I think just hiring teachers is probably a winning thing with voters.

00:35:00.980 I think if you put it that way, it's much harder to say, oh, well, you know, this is just

00:35:05.780 the Republicans hating education.

00:35:07.960 I think this would be a really winning message.

00:35:09.720 Um, but even in this administration, I don't know that we fully articulated, um, you know,

00:35:16.260 what we do, you know, do we just shut down the department of education?

00:35:19.660 That's it.

00:35:20.160 I think that's, that's harder.

00:35:22.020 I think you need to say, we're going to shut down the department of education.

00:35:24.600 We're going to take some of this money we saved and use it to improve your actual local

00:35:28.600 school in a way that the department of education wasn't doing.

00:35:31.920 And I think that sort of tangible improvement in a local school will resonate with voters.

00:35:37.860 If they need a messaging guy on this, let me know.

00:35:41.160 Like, like this is not the department of education.

00:35:43.720 This is the department of propaganda.

00:35:45.080 That is its function inside.

00:35:47.280 It is a, is mandatory propaganda for the left across your entire nation.

00:35:53.680 Like it, it, it provably reduces the quality of education while spreading nothing but progressive

00:36:00.020 lies to your children.

00:36:01.300 Like, I feel like there is an easy pitch here.

00:36:03.540 Like this, the purpose of the system is what it does, not what the label says in the same

00:36:08.980 way that my border, you know, border security was not securing the border.

00:36:12.180 And in my department of, uh, of defense was not defending my nation.

00:36:16.440 My department of education had no interest in actually educating my children.

00:36:19.940 Like, I, I think we can win this and we need to win this.

00:36:23.460 So like I said, just as, as somebody who was stuck in the system for so long, um, you know,

00:36:28.740 I, this one's personal to me.

00:36:30.300 I, I really hope that they, they knock this one out, you know, so do I, the, the other

00:36:34.580 one that I, a little concerned about, um, and you know, we saw this, you know, uh, kind

00:36:39.460 of blow up over Christmas, uh, you know, Elon and Vivek who mysteriously is out of a lot

00:36:45.860 of this, uh, you know, best wishes, uh, Ohio, I hope, you know, you do, you do well over

00:36:50.100 there with Vivek, but, uh, but, but we had this, the showdown over kind of the H1B scenario,

00:36:56.140 right?

00:36:57.140 Um, obviously we knew this was coming, this is kind of part of coalitional politics.

00:37:01.420 Silicon Valley always wanted this labor. 0.99

00:37:03.800 Uh, and so it shouldn't have been a surprise to anybody, even if they pulled it on Christmas,

00:37:08.940 but you know, uh, they, they should have recognized this, but you know, I feel like in some ways

00:37:14.540 that was a gift because, uh, it made it a very front and center issue going into the

00:37:18.800 Trump administration.

00:37:19.680 Uh, guys like Vivek seem to come maybe take a hit out of it, but you know, so there,

00:37:23.700 there was a scenario where this, uh, they was, became hard to just kind of sneak this

00:37:27.880 in.

00:37:28.300 However, between that and kind of the great Panda express battle on Twitter, uh, over,

00:37:33.000 over Americans should not worry about this tech jobs.

00:37:35.500 There's probably orange chicken to be fried somewhere.

00:37:37.960 Um, you know, yesterday, the Manhattan Institute was releasing papers about how we should be stapling

00:37:42.620 green cards to every H-1B visa kid.

00:37:44.940 Uh, you know, everyone who has a kid, uh, while they're on H-1B visa, uh, it seems like

00:37:50.160 there's still this mentality in many parts of the Republican party, especially in the establishment,

00:37:55.660 you know, uh, is that actually the H-1B visa is a immigration program.

00:38:01.080 It's not a temporary worker program.

00:38:02.800 This is how we're going to bring people in the United States now. 1.00

00:38:05.240 Uh, and that is just not what people voted for.

00:38:08.100 That is just absolutely not.

00:38:09.940 So it's great, of course, to get rid of all the illegal immigration that's, that's like 1.00

00:38:14.100 winning 80% of the battle.

00:38:15.800 And that's fantastic.

00:38:16.860 I am more than, than happy to win 80% of the battle, but I don't want to pretend that

00:38:20.940 that last 20% is not, it seems like it's getting leveraged, you know, even after disasters

00:38:27.340 and bad messaging, it's still getting pushed by conservative establishment.

00:38:31.000 And that doesn't seem like people have learned their lesson.

00:38:34.900 Yeah.

00:38:35.440 I mean, I think, look, this is also going to be just a, it's going to be coalition politics.

00:38:39.660 It's going to be a fight.

00:38:40.860 Uh, they're going to be people with different views.

00:38:42.700 Um, Elon, thank you for having my account be one of the 950 that you follow.

00:38:47.760 Yeah.

00:38:48.160 Yeah.

00:38:48.460 I'm not, I'm not bashing Elon.

00:38:50.460 I think I truly, I think Elon's great.

00:38:52.900 Um, you know, I don't necessarily see totally eye to eye with him, obviously on this issue,

00:38:56.740 but I do think that he, he wound up at the end in a place that at least we can kind of

00:39:02.000 live with in a negotiation, which is like, okay, fine.

00:39:05.420 You know, but we just want to bring in the, like, what he really cares about is being

00:39:09.040 in the best and brightest engineers.

00:39:11.340 And you can argue about numbers or whatever else, but I feel like, you know, whether or

00:39:16.660 not, you know, look, I'm, I'm a net zero immigration person.

00:39:19.240 I'm out saying that as my preference.

00:39:21.060 So like, you know, that's, that's my view, but within the realities of coalition politics,

00:39:25.600 I think the other key thing you said is 80% of it is the illegals, right? 1.00

00:39:30.120 So let's get, if, if tech wants its top engineers, let's get their help, or at least not them

00:39:38.320 obstructing as they've done in the past on, let's get rid of these illegals, right? 1.00

00:39:43.060 And really crack down and then let's take what's left.

00:39:48.340 And if, if tech is helpful there, you know, I think for, as they compromise, again, I want

00:39:52.920 to straight, this is not my position.

00:39:54.760 I can live with a more limited and not just targeted in India, which it functionally basically 0.86

00:40:00.740 is right now, H1B type program that really brings us a smaller number of truly elite engineers

00:40:09.180 that, you know, might be kind of a net benefit to society.

00:40:13.820 Again, that's the type of compromise and coalition politics that I can live with, but you're right

00:40:19.600 in that it's still going to be a fight.

00:40:22.220 Right. And I think, you know, from, from my perspective, the fact that we had this argument

00:40:25.680 up front was great.

00:40:27.320 People, people saw where the electric wires were.

00:40:30.120 I think the tech bros were kind of taken a little bit of back, but I think message delivered

00:40:35.520 by our voters.

00:40:36.660 And that's great that this is a really core issue with us.

00:40:40.720 We've been lied to too many times.

00:40:42.960 And that if they want any help on some of the parts of the immigration issue that are important

00:40:49.280 to them, that they're going to have to help us on the much bigger parts of the immigration

00:40:52.900 issue.

00:40:54.440 Now, I'm not a policy expert.

00:40:56.660 You know, I'm not deep in the, in the weeds and I'm not the biggest wonk, but maybe this

00:41:01.360 is crazy to let me know if I'm wrong.

00:41:02.960 I mean, if you just put a hundred percent tax on a H1B position, right?

00:41:08.100 Like if this engineer is so valuable, then pay him the going rate and pay the government

00:41:14.220 the going rate again.

00:41:15.460 He's, he's so valuable.

00:41:16.880 You can't operate a company without him pay a hundred percent tax and invest that money

00:41:20.980 in training Americans to do that job.

00:41:23.120 Right.

00:41:23.720 You're benefiting Americans and you're giving tech access to what they say they want.

00:41:27.620 And if they're not after cheap labor, if they really need these super, just impressive

00:41:32.200 engineers, they're all just hiding somewhere in India and we got to go get them.

00:41:36.860 Well, then let's use that to then cultivate that strength inside our own country.

00:41:42.560 I mean, I know that they'd balk at that, but if they did, then that would make me feel

00:41:46.980 like they're not really telling the truth about what that is for.

00:41:50.580 Sure.

00:41:51.140 Absolutely.

00:41:51.660 And my, my good friend, Mark Kerkorian, who runs the center for immigration studies did

00:41:55.260 a piece where he sort of had three fundamental reforms.

00:41:58.660 And again, these are not new folks like me and I'm stealing them from people like Mark

00:42:03.140 have, have suggested these for a long time.

00:42:05.940 But one of the simplest ones is a little bit along the lines of what you said, which

00:42:09.600 is okay, just auction them off, right?

00:42:12.600 If they're so valuable, you auction them off.

00:42:14.900 So rather than having what we have right now, which is this random lottery and all of a sudden

00:42:19.080 somebody is being paid $85,000 a year to come from India to manage your Panda Express or whatever

00:42:26.920 he's doing, or, you know, some low end coding work, you simply say, okay, you know, you want

00:42:32.160 these really top engineers, then pay them like top engineers.

00:42:35.640 And, and that's, you know, we have a fixed number and it's a lower number and, uh, you know,

00:42:40.720 whoever pays most gets the most engineers.

00:42:42.960 So I think that's a version of what you're having.

00:42:45.760 I think maybe your version is, um, maybe slightly even more in reinforcing some of the things

00:42:51.220 that we would like to, uh, reinforce as a coalition, but I think that's ultimately just

00:42:56.160 going to be at the end of the day.

00:42:57.560 I mean, this is where I do put on my politically realist hat.

00:43:00.300 It's just, this is going to be a negotiation and it's like, okay, you know, this is what

00:43:05.120 we want.

00:43:05.660 You know what we want, uh, as, as a lot of base voters. 0.97

00:43:08.520 So what is big tech going to bring to the party to help us?

00:43:11.900 That's going to, you know, make us cooperate with them to some degree.

00:43:15.560 But again, I mean, I want to be really realistic that a lot of these guys, whether or not the

00:43:20.780 base likes it, I mean, they're, they're not going away.

00:43:23.380 They're going to be powerful.

00:43:24.360 These are, they're, they're really rich.

00:43:26.360 They're really influential for a reason.

00:43:28.520 And I think it's kind of a fantasy world to just, you know, pretend that Trump is, none

00:43:33.400 of them will ever have Trump's ear.

00:43:34.820 So the question is what's, you know, this is the art of the deal.

00:43:37.180 What's the best deal that we can get on behalf of the American people that these guys can

00:43:42.960 also live with and that we can go forward with as a winning coalition.

00:43:47.480 Yeah.

00:43:47.900 I think that we're living in the age of money power.

00:43:50.460 We're living in the age of the oligarch, whether you like that or not.

00:43:53.260 And so the question isn't, are you going to get oligarchy, which oligarchy are you going

00:43:56.980 to get?

00:43:57.300 Are you going to get oligarchs that are at least you have a seat at the table with them? 0.99

00:44:00.620 Or are you going to get guys that couldn't care less and tell you to go pound sand and put

00:44:04.220 you in jail?

00:44:04.660 Like, yeah, I like, I like Elon, Elon has done a lot of great things, having a huge role

00:44:11.440 in getting Trump elected.

00:44:12.980 And so he gets a voice, right?

00:44:15.180 Like, and I'm totally cool with that.

00:44:16.920 And, you know, other people also get a voice and we'll just, we'll come out.

00:44:20.000 As you said, I think it is right to probably say we're in the age of the oligarch for better

00:44:23.780 or for worse.

00:44:24.500 And we need to adjust to that and just go forward on that basis.

00:44:29.400 Now, that brings me to my last question, which I think is important because we've already

00:44:35.540 acknowledged the left.

00:44:37.180 It looks bad, right?

00:44:38.000 Like they're, they're knocked down, they're bleeding, you know, they don't look like they

00:44:42.080 can get up for the 10 count.

00:44:43.260 However, you know, these are people who are rabid and they will, once they find their feet,

00:44:49.260 they will strike.

00:44:50.380 And so the thing that I think is the most likely, because a lot of people are speculating,

00:44:55.980 you know, which way do they go?

00:44:57.340 How does the left reform?

00:44:58.680 What, what are their focus?

00:44:59.860 What does the political formula look like for these guys?

00:45:02.480 And my instinct is that if the, the standard of living for the average person, you know,

00:45:10.500 kind of, kind of the, the, the quality of life for the average person doesn't improve

00:45:15.220 under Trump.

00:45:16.200 And I think it will, because I think, you know, deportations and other things will have

00:45:19.120 big effects.

00:45:20.120 However, you know, it sounds like we're going to be printing a lot of money.

00:45:23.300 Yeah.

00:45:23.640 It sounds like we're still going to try to make wall street pretty happy, which means

00:45:26.560 inflation is probably going to continue.

00:45:28.060 You know, like those are just some of the realities, probably not as bad.

00:45:31.280 Cause we're going to dial back some of the more egregious stuff, hopefully the, the foreign 1.00

00:45:35.120 wars and some of this stuff, but, but it's still going to exist.

00:45:38.320 And I think the line you've already heard the left test.

00:45:41.500 This is that the right is the, is the party of the oligarchs.

00:45:46.080 Now, of course, you know, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg 10 minutes ago, we're backing

00:45:51.420 every Democrat in sight, literally buying elections for them.

00:45:54.180 So, you know, that's, that's obviously disingenuous, but I feel like if they don't recognize, and

00:46:00.600 this is why I, you know, along with the fact that it's just morally correct and good for

00:46:04.980 the people in the United States, one of the reasons I'm pushing on the H1B stuff and some 1.00

00:46:09.380 of these other things so hard is that people need to appreciably feel the increase in their

00:46:16.720 standard of living so that that kind of class warfare argument doesn't gain traction. 1.00

00:46:21.740 If you don't make that change, if you allow good, good middle-class American jobs to go 0.58

00:46:28.940 to foreigners, inflation continues to move in the direction it's going, then people

00:46:34.160 aren't going to, you know, feel like there is a big change.

00:46:37.580 And then the argument about, oh, well, the left is saying that he's listening to all these

00:46:41.900 oligarchs and they're getting their way. 0.99

00:46:43.660 That's going to be an issue.

00:46:44.980 So if, you know, obviously, like you said, guys like Elon, huge contributors to the win,

00:46:49.740 you know, they deserve a place at the table. 0.86

00:46:51.500 They're obviously going to have a high degree of influence.

00:46:53.400 But if you don't want that to become a liability, I feel like the way to do that is to make sure

00:46:59.400 that the average person is like, well, yeah, Elon's got the ear of the president, but my

00:47:04.100 life has done nothing but improve because of that.

00:47:06.220 So that's kind of fine, right?

00:47:07.940 Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:08.780 I mean, that's going to be the proof in the pudding.

00:47:10.920 I mean, you see the Democrats who hate everything we're doing.

00:47:13.520 They're desperately trying to just make it about that.

00:47:16.280 They're trying to say, well, you know, what's Trump doing about the price of groceries,

00:47:20.860 right, because that's they want to just pretend it's all about that and not about the fact that

00:47:25.280 they've, you know, been committing cultural arson for decades.

00:47:28.480 And now Trump is popular because he's pushing back against that.

00:47:32.240 But, yeah, we absolutely do need to make people's lives better.

00:47:35.140 And I think one of the chances, one of the opportunities we had, I just had a tweet about

00:47:39.340 this earlier that was got a little bit of attention where I was sort of saying, hey,

00:47:44.020 you know, these folks were deporting.

00:47:45.740 We're opening up a lot of housing.

00:47:47.440 I mean, I think there's no question that, you know, part of the housing crunch we've had is we

00:47:53.560 have this massive increase in the illegal population.

00:47:56.520 And I think here's the sort of important subtlety here, right?

00:47:59.460 That is not evenly distributed.

00:48:01.600 So for the most part, these guys were not having homes in Palo Alto or Malibu or wherever.

00:48:10.040 They were taking homes of working and middle class voters, you know, and maybe sometimes they

00:48:15.200 were eight to a home, which is another, you know, thing entirely.

00:48:18.740 But the sort of real estate that is going to be opened up if we really do anything resembling

00:48:24.620 mass deportations is going to be the sort that is going to benefit the bottom line of people

00:48:30.660 who are maybe our voters.

00:48:32.560 And so I think that is a real opportunity.

00:48:34.940 It's one of these things where there'll be a certain amount, if we do it right, of lying

00:48:38.780 with statistics, not on our side, but just because the statistics themselves will be a

00:48:43.200 little deceptive where you might see, oh, well, inflation is still going or this.

00:48:47.180 But if you actually look at the world of our core voters, the mass deportations and other

00:48:52.740 things we're doing will be a disproportionate amount of gains to them, right?

00:48:57.620 Whereas before the Democrats ran an economy that maybe it was doing fine on paper, but really

00:49:04.440 all the gains were to oligarchs, maybe we're going to have an economy that on a net basis 0.93

00:49:09.320 might not do any better, but the gains are going to be for our working and middle class

00:49:14.080 voters and the cultural gains will be for our working and middle class voters.

00:49:17.800 And we'll be able to come to them and say, hey, your life is better.

00:49:21.020 Oh, by the way, your life is also better because you're not being racially discriminated against

00:49:24.240 again and you don't have to go to these DEI commissars.

00:49:27.380 And I think just the cultural weight of that on you, I mean, it's so oppressive just lifting

00:49:32.020 that sort of stuff, I think we can deliver a lot of huge and tangible wins, even if money

00:49:40.220 printer go burr and we're going to have to deal with some of those things that will make

00:49:45.760 the economy less than perfect.

00:49:49.160 But I think it can definitely be good enough that that combined with some of these other

00:49:53.820 wins, our voters can be really happy if we do it well.

00:49:57.140 Yeah, I agree.

00:49:57.880 All of the economic data shows that the economic growth, the new job creation has gone to immigrants

00:50:05.380 and recent arrivals.

00:50:07.780 It has not gone to the core population of the United States, citizens of the United States.

00:50:13.320 And so the fact that you are going to see those opportunities reopen for Americans, that

00:50:19.520 economic growth will go to Americans and that, like you said, the housing crisis will be eased

00:50:25.860 most effectively for working in middle class Americans means even if the inflation continues

00:50:31.360 at a pace that might not be ideal, the practical, you know, do I have a job opportunity?

00:50:37.100 Can I afford a home?

00:50:38.660 You know, these things are going to be far more open to the average American.

00:50:43.040 And so I think ultimately you're right that that's going to look a lot better.

00:50:46.800 Yeah.

00:50:48.140 All right, guys.

00:50:48.980 Well, we're going to pivot over to the questions of the people.

00:50:51.920 But before we do, Jeremy, where should people look for you, your work, your book, all of

00:50:56.880 that stuff?

00:50:58.280 Sure.

00:50:58.860 So Real Jeremy Carl is my X slash Twitter feed.

00:51:03.360 You can join Elon Musk and the cool crowd if you follow me.

00:51:07.920 You can follow my sub stack, which is called The Course of Empire, jeremycarl.substack.com.

00:51:13.800 And my book, which is, you know, gotten a little bit of attention as of late, partially because

00:51:18.820 of some of these orders maybe looking suspiciously like a few folks had cracked my book.

00:51:23.980 The Unprotected Class is available at Amazon and Barnes and Noble and hopefully a fine local

00:51:30.840 bookstore near you if that's where your proclivities lie.

00:51:33.460 Yeah, no, absolutely.

00:51:35.420 It's very encouraging that, you know, these guys were familiar with the issues because

00:51:41.200 many of them had interacted with your book.

00:51:43.900 And that's absolutely fantastic.

00:51:46.180 All right.

00:51:46.540 So let's bring Anon reviewer on here real quick.

00:51:49.900 He said, I'm glad that Trump freed Ross Ulbrich, but he also needs to pardon Douglas Mackey and

00:51:55.640 or the political meme guy.

00:51:57.620 How do we contact Tucker to tell Trump?

00:51:59.460 Dave Smith says that the best way to get something, that's the best way to get something to Trump.

00:52:04.280 Actually, as I've seen, Doug Mackey specifically said he did not want a pardon because he's hoping

00:52:10.420 that a good precedent will be set in his case because he absolutely does.

00:52:15.680 He should be pardoned. 0.92

00:52:17.080 His charges are ridiculous, a complete violation of the First Amendment. 0.80

00:52:21.960 But it sounds like strategically he has asked not to receive a pardon. 0.86

00:52:27.120 Yeah, that's absolutely correct.

00:52:28.080 I actually know some of the folks who are leading Doug's legal team, and he does not want

00:52:33.060 to be pardoned for just that reason because I think we have some degree of confidence that

00:52:37.400 we're going to win this case, that we certainly feel like we have the facts and law on our side

00:52:41.940 and that it will set a good free speech precedent.

00:52:45.960 If we somehow lose the case, I am confident that Trump is going to do the right thing and

00:52:50.380 that Douglas Mackey is not going to see the inside of a jail cell because it's one of the

00:52:54.840 more ridiculous cases of lawfare that was out there.

00:52:58.380 Yeah, I met him and his wife, and it's just absolutely insane that they're in this situation 0.60

00:53:02.300 there.

00:53:02.700 And so I am very glad that he feels confident.

00:53:06.400 I think it is very brave of him to say that the precedent is important.

00:53:09.900 And even though I could probably get a pardon, I'm going to see this.

00:53:12.820 And like you said, it is good to know that that is backstopped by the fact that if for

00:53:16.940 some reason there is a horrible, horrible miscarriage of justice, probably can get, you know, make

00:53:22.320 sure that that is not something that he ends up enduring.

00:53:25.540 Let's see here.

00:53:26.540 Florida Henry says, so far, very happy, but Trump only won by 1.5% of the vote to an insane

00:53:33.620 Democratic Party.

00:53:34.460 When they come back, what's to stop them from going full Maoist?

00:53:40.500 Yeah, well, this is interesting.

00:53:42.080 It actually feeds a little bit into my kind of follow-up book that I'm working on right

00:53:45.600 now, which is the insanity of the white left.

00:53:48.900 And I think one of the interesting things, first of all, I'd say two things. 0.57

00:53:53.180 One is that even though we just got a relatively modest popular vote, when the electoral college

00:54:00.040 went, which is ultimately what really matters, was a little more decisive.

00:54:02.680 And I think the electoral college is clearly going our way, not just in general, but in very

00:54:09.720 specific.

00:54:10.240 We will probably add, without doing anything, like just at the next census, so just after

00:54:16.480 one more presidential election, we'll add like 12 or 13 more electoral votes to the solid 0.99

00:54:21.420 red tally just because of population movements.

00:54:25.280 If we manage to get illegal immigrants discounted from census apportionment, you can add another 1.00

00:54:30.940 five to seven seats on top of that.

00:54:33.400 So it could be very large, but essentially one of the things I'm going to argue in my

00:54:37.780 book is that, and I'm kind of arguing this in a bunch of talks I'm going to be giving

00:54:42.360 a number of universities over the next month, is if we really want to be that permanent majority

00:54:50.900 party, and I say permanent in quotes because there are no permanent majorities, but the sort

00:54:54.220 of natural majority party, let's say in the way that the Dems were from 1932 to 1968, what

00:55:00.360 needs to happen is we need to get more white voters because actually Trump, despite the

00:55:06.560 fact that white voters have been hugely discriminated against by the Democrats, performed slightly

00:55:11.920 worse than Romney among them.

00:55:13.060 And he saw these enormous gains among minority voters for him, particularly Latinos, where

00:55:18.040 he took 46% to 51 or 52 for Harris.

00:55:22.880 That's great.

00:55:23.500 I mean, that's lovely.

00:55:24.480 I want as big and multi-ethnic a coalition as we can get.

00:55:27.760 I'm not in any way trying to discourage that, but when you look at where the real opportunity

00:55:32.080 to grow share are, especially given how anti-white the Democratic Party is, as I kind of document

00:55:38.380 in the unprotected class, the real target of opportunity is going to be among those white 0.98

00:55:43.940 voters.

00:55:45.280 And I think maybe, you don't want to speculate four years in advance, but a guy like J.D.

00:55:50.360 Vance might be able to reach some of those upscale white voters in a way that Trump had a harder

00:55:55.400 time doing.

00:55:56.180 So I think that's an area that we're going to have to focus on because you're right.

00:56:00.080 I mean, if they, the questioner is right, like if the Dems take over, we're going to

00:56:04.520 get insanity.

00:56:05.340 But I, you know, I don't really think they held back much that they could have done.

00:56:09.220 I mean, I think we saw it.

00:56:10.680 So, you know, I'm not sure like it's going to be 50 times worse. 0.63

00:56:14.080 It'll just, wow, it'll suck again for four years.

00:56:16.080 But I do think that if we do things right, they'll be a little bit chastened because now

00:56:20.560 the people who were oppressing us realize that we're not afraid to hold the whip hand and

00:56:25.580 use it, the whip, when we need to.

00:56:28.460 And I think that will incentivize a little bit more responsible behavior on their part.

00:56:34.240 At least I hope it does.

00:56:35.220 Let's make that pendulum actually swing.

00:56:37.740 Let's make it swing hard. 0.98

00:56:39.100 And ultimately, yeah, I think that a guy like J.D. Vance is promising because he has

00:56:45.120 kind of the, you know, the Appalachian roots, but the Yale pedigree.

00:56:49.180 And that allows him to, you know, to probably make that case, like you said, to a lot of

00:56:53.020 people that might have had trouble with Trump to some degree or another, though, obviously

00:56:57.840 he still did amazing in the last election here. 0.97

00:57:02.120 Tiny Stupid Demon says, not tired of winning. 0.98

00:57:04.580 Also, thumbnail goes hard. 0.99

00:57:06.020 Yeah, again, we had to take a breather.

00:57:07.960 We sat down on the porch.

00:57:09.420 We had some sweet tea, but yeah, we're prepared.

00:57:11.960 We're back in it.

00:57:12.880 We're prepared to win a little more.

00:57:16.360 Yo says, congrats on the win.

00:57:18.580 I hope we get some downstream positive effects here in New Zealand before we get eaten by 0.98

00:57:23.160 cannibals.

00:57:24.080 Yeah, I mean, the hope really is that this can't cascades.

00:57:27.380 And, you know, Steve Turley has has been talking about this as a global movement.

00:57:32.080 And I talked to Steve about that.

00:57:34.840 And I think there is some evidence to that.

00:57:36.700 Obviously, you look at a place like the UK and they're, you know, they're having a big

00:57:41.540 problem.

00:57:41.980 But also just, you know, I know a lot of my friends in the UK, even though they have a

00:57:46.480 terrible government, they look at what's happening with Trump and they're like, we want that and

00:57:50.160 we want it now.

00:57:50.980 Who can give us that?

00:57:52.360 Right.

00:57:52.540 And when you see those wins, when you see that cascade, it encourages everybody else.

00:57:57.060 So, you know, we're American nationalists.

00:57:58.980 We're, you know, mainly considering the well-being of the United States.

00:58:02.780 But I certainly hope that my friends in other countries can benefit from these wins as they

00:58:08.480 see the possibility that Trump unlocks.

00:58:11.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:12.740 It's OK to win.

00:58:13.700 It's good to win.

00:58:15.020 And when you and when you do win, you show other people that winning is possible.

00:58:19.240 They're like, why are we not getting there?

00:58:20.780 I mean, we had this to a small effect when we were looking at folks like Bukele and El 0.79

00:58:26.060 Salvador in the last few years.

00:58:27.740 Right.

00:58:28.040 Where we're like, well, you know, we've got some problems, but we weren't nearly as in

00:58:31.440 disastrous shape as El Salvador.

00:58:33.820 And he seems to have just turned that around.

00:58:35.600 So we want that and we have an infinitely high profile of the No Salvador. 0.89

00:58:40.880 So if we show that we can win, I think it stiffens the spines of folks throughout the

00:58:46.420 West.

00:58:47.120 And I think that's just obviously a wonderful thing.

00:58:49.760 Yeah, it turns out you can just do things and then win and then people will like you.

00:58:55.840 And, you know, you also got Elon, which, you know, you know, obviously some disagreements

00:59:00.120 here, but ultimately Elon is also pushing in, you know, reform in the UK.

00:59:04.760 He's pushing the FD in Germany and, you know, he's a force, you know, so there is that

00:59:09.540 opportunity.

00:59:10.240 Well, I hope that, you know, helps people out in the long run.

00:59:15.900 Perspicacious Heretic says anything but conservative overreach.

00:59:19.260 I'd rather be hated and have every aspect of my family and community ruined.

00:59:23.120 Yeah, it really is that simple.

00:59:25.420 You know, again, you know, Trump got shot.

00:59:27.520 He recognized the existential crisis.

00:59:29.900 America was severely wounded.

00:59:32.300 We recognize the existential crisis.

00:59:34.960 If you are not willing to take the steps to conserve America, just stop calling yourself

00:59:38.980 conservative and let's move on, you know.

00:59:41.080 Yeah.

00:59:41.680 No, and I'm glad, by the way, just to go back to something you had just said that you mentioned

00:59:46.160 Elon's support of AFD and talking about Germany and talking about grooming gangs in the UK.

00:59:52.600 And I say that to say, here's a very powerful guy that whether or not I happen to agree with

00:59:56.840 him in a micro sense on H1Bs is not some tech bro who's just totally not cognizant or caring

01:00:03.940 about some of these broader cultural issues affecting the West, right, or immigration issues.

01:00:10.040 And so I'm kind of like, this is a guy we ought to be able to do business with.

01:00:14.080 Like, if we can't, if we can't do business with the guy who's using the biggest account

01:00:18.140 on Twitter deserves at least one of the five biggest to say, we must vote AFD to save Germany,

01:00:22.860 then I think we're definitely in a purity spiral, right?

01:00:25.420 Like, and I'm just not a purity spiral or by nature.

01:00:29.600 Yeah, this guy is not Mark Zuckerberg, okay?

01:00:31.840 No, absolutely.

01:00:32.940 There's a very different animal.

01:00:34.680 You know, Zuckerberg, you know, is, you know, is a soulless lizard person who censors everything.

01:00:39.800 And then, you know, Trump's going to win.

01:00:41.680 All of a sudden, he's on Joe Rogan.

01:00:43.120 He gets the bro baptism.

01:00:45.160 He's got a fro.

01:00:45.860 He's doing BJJ, you know, like wherever the wind's blowing, that's where he's going.

01:00:49.500 Elon's a little different, you know, so don't just paint with the same brush there.

01:00:52.980 Prooper Weirdo says, to my friends, here, find a mirror, look into it and repeat after me,

01:00:59.740 it's our democracy now.

01:01:03.180 And then he also says, from Panama to Mars, the future is ours.

01:01:08.120 All our slogans here.

01:01:09.560 And then Life of Brain says, when does rubber meet the road, read the economic populist issues?

01:01:15.280 DI is a good start, but how do you see the real Bannon-Rufo fight going down?

01:01:22.980 You know, I hope ultimately it's not a fight.

01:01:25.860 Again, I, you know, like, you know, I want to be careful, guys.

01:01:29.560 Like, we need to apply friendly pressure, okay?

01:01:34.400 This doesn't mean go out and shoot your friends.

01:01:37.260 That's not the situation here.

01:01:40.680 Rufo has done great work on many issues.

01:01:43.620 He is one of the most effective conservative activists of all time.

01:01:47.500 He's just wrong about something.

01:01:48.640 And that's okay.

01:01:49.180 I've been wrong about stuff, okay?

01:01:50.760 And then people let me know I was wrong about stuff, and I learned lessons, and then I moved forward.

01:01:54.740 And it's okay.

01:01:55.600 It's okay to have friendly conversations.

01:01:58.180 Have your opinions.

01:01:59.960 Have them forcefully.

01:02:01.340 But don't go and burn down all of your bridges on one thing. 0.99

01:02:06.360 You know, that is just foolish. 0.99

01:02:08.500 Have a little bit of wisdom. 0.99

01:02:12.440 Apply the pressure properly.

01:02:13.820 Don't be weak.

01:02:14.440 Don't back down.

01:02:15.820 But don't burn things down just for the sake of burning them down.

01:02:20.200 You don't have to be the dissidents forever.

01:02:23.360 You won.

01:02:24.540 You won.

01:02:25.480 It's okay.

01:02:26.480 This is so important, and I feel like you and I are probably, you know, saying this on Twitter regularly.

01:02:31.000 But, yes, it's okay to win, and we've won, and we need to stop acting.

01:02:35.400 We don't want to be addicted to being dissidents.

01:02:37.220 We actually would like to be winners, and that's a good thing.

01:02:40.420 And I think with the specifics of kind of the ban, and I mean, it's not getting as much attention right now.

01:02:46.180 But I think the tariff issue, if we get any sort of traction on this, this can be hugely, hugely beneficial for things like American manufacturing.

01:02:55.820 And, again, that's something where you're not just going to have to be able to look at some raw GDP number.

01:03:01.280 Maybe it doesn't move raw GDP in some dramatic way.

01:03:04.720 But in terms of working in middle-class Americans, opening up manufacturing jobs, opening up reshoring a lot of those kind of middle-class jobs can be a huge benefit for people who either are our voters right now or for people who we would like to have as our voters.

01:03:20.460 So I think that's one of the ways this could play out.

01:03:23.420 Absolutely.

01:03:24.400 All right, guys.

01:03:24.980 Well, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up.

01:03:27.100 Always great talking to Jeremy.

01:03:29.040 If for some reason you have not read The Unprotected Class, you should do that.

01:03:33.580 And very importantly, hand it to, you know, the guy just slightly to your left who you think might be open to this kind of thing, might be ready to hear a little bit more, you know, was worried that the bomb throwers were the only people making this argument.

01:03:48.520 You hand them a book like that and, you know, they can be a little more comfortable discussing a difficult issue and addressing it.

01:03:55.320 Of course, if it's your first time on this channel, make sure you're subscribing, click the bell, notification, all that stuff so you know when we're going live.

01:04:03.260 If you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, subscribe to The Oren McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.

01:04:09.080 When you do leave the rating or review, it really helps with the algorithm magic.

01:04:12.720 And if you want to pick up my book, it's finally out on audiobook after a long slog.

01:04:17.020 The Total State, you can go and listen to it or, of course, pick it up in a physical copy as well.

01:04:22.460 Thank you, everybody, for watching.

01:04:23.740 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - January 24, 2025

Trump Slashes DEI and Anti-White Racism ｜ Guest： Jeremy Carl ｜ 1⧸24⧸25

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