The Auron MacIntyre Show - July 18, 2025


What Is an American？ ｜ Guest： Jack Posobiec ｜ 7⧸18⧸25


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 4 minutes

Words per minute

187.98405

Word count

12,209

Sentence count

771

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

13

sentences flagged

Hate speech

35

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Jack Posobiec joins me on the show to talk about the growing trend of politicians referring to foreign countries as their homes, and why this is a problem. We also talk about what it means to be an American in a foreign country.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.200 Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
00:00:07.580 You know, it started with Ilhan Omar constantly talking about how she could help out the Somali community and ultimately really she saw Somalia as her homeland.
00:00:17.100 But she's spawned a whole new wave of American politicians who now seem more than okay with referring to foreign countries as the ones they actually see as their homes.
00:00:27.740 You have guys like Zoran Mamdani in New York. He's only been here. He's only one generation born in the United States and yet he feels like he's ready to rearrange everything, introduce socialism and fix all the problems of the country he just ended up in.
00:00:42.860 Joining me today to talk about this phenomenon is an author. He's a host. Jack Posobiec. Thank you so much for coming on, man.
00:00:48.440 What's going on, Aron? Huge fan. I listen to the show all the time. I just saw the chat that I popped in. It says Poso needs to bring up Pizza Hut nationalism. If he doesn't, I'd be very disappointed.
00:01:00.880 And it's actually a really good way to get into the conversation because Pizza Hut nationalism is a huge part of this, by the way, because we are going to talk about how diluting the national character leads to an erosion of civic society.
00:01:16.060 Yeah, we're definitely going to get into what we might think of as different definitions for nationalism or what makes someone American.
00:01:25.460 And this is actually where you kind of got in a little bit of trouble, I guess we could call this, or just the media decided.
00:01:30.860 Oh, I wade right into this one. I was talking to some friends backstage at this Turning Point event last week down in Tampa.
00:01:43.040 And let's just say it was my coterie of Twitter anons that I have going up.
00:01:48.440 And I said, yeah, you know, should we mention Epstein? I said, definitely going to mention Epstein. You have to get into that.
00:01:54.260 But I want to get into this broader question and push the envelope a little bit more on these guys walking around claiming that they can run for office when they're clearly just not American.
00:02:07.140 And it's on the face of it, not American. So it goes viral. People are attacking me all over it because I said these guys aren't American.
00:02:16.140 I know there's a piece of paper that they may have in many instances that says they're American, but they're not. They're not an American. 0.81
00:02:22.700 And I get the email from Unheard and some reporter over there that says, you know, this litany of questions and regarding my statement.
00:02:32.300 I just hit him back with the classic Sam Hyde of everyone knows what an American is. 0.53
00:02:38.820 And that's so critical because this is what people want to go into, right?
00:02:43.320 I need all the nuance. I need every little bit, you know, lay down the letter of the law.
00:02:48.060 And that's why Sam Hyde's response was so great. And that's why yours, you know, mirroring that is also great.
00:02:52.600 Guys, we know what we're talking about. Everyone knows what an American is until you decide to break this all down and try to get pedantic about it.
00:03:01.000 But obviously, it can't just be filling out forms or a piece of paperwork.
00:03:06.060 Every other nation around the world more or less understands that it is a people, right?
00:03:11.480 Yes, it's a legal framework. It's a state. There's a government in charge of it.
00:03:15.960 But there's also a culture. There's a tradition. There's a language. There's a heritage and a history.
00:03:21.500 These things reach back. And most nations in some way or another allow people to kind of come in and weave into that fabric.
00:03:28.960 Some are more open, some are less. But there's usually some process by which that can occur.
00:03:34.420 But no one in Japan thinks that if you or I moved there in three years, we would just be Japanese.
00:03:41.020 And by the way, we could tell every Japanese person how to run Japan.
00:03:43.620 Well, the fact that you mentioned it is so funny. So I lived in China for two years.
00:03:48.280 I speak Mandarin Chinese. I learn the language. I can read it. I can type it.
00:03:54.420 I wouldn't say I can write it, but I can type it, you know.
00:03:56.980 And, you know, I lived there for quite some time and have no problem being able to converse.
00:04:03.340 I could have this conversation in Mandarin right now.
00:04:05.480 But no one at any point of me going around in China would ever consider me Chinese.
00:04:13.440 And in fact, there's a term that they use predominantly for whites of European descent.
00:04:20.520 And they'll say Lao Wai. And I always used to bring this up and I would say, like, well, actually, Lao Wai doesn't just mean foreigner.
00:04:26.820 It means white. And I would say, what do you mean? 0.90
00:04:28.700 I'd say, well, because they never use that for if someone were black, if someone were of any other ethnicity, you would only use it for white people.
00:04:36.360 So it clearly means white. So even then, in that instance, you know, the average Chinese person just on the street would see me and would just go, you know, Lao Wai.
00:04:48.520 And they're very clearly using that nationalist kind of reference to identify me as a foreigner and an outsider.
00:04:58.660 And guess what? That's the norm. That's the normal way that countries operate.
00:05:03.600 That's the way that peoples operate. That's the way that history just is.
00:05:08.120 And it doesn't matter. And this, which I'd love to get into at some point, is since, you know, post-1965 and really this sort of like the great counterculture movement or whatever you want to call it,
00:05:19.900 this idea has somehow been like showered over our eyes that we're supposed to believe that people just can be whatever they want to be and label themselves whatever they want, even though reality is still reality.
00:05:32.200 Well, I think a lot of this comes from the story of the Americas as a place where immigrants come to, right?
00:05:40.140 This is ultimately the idea that everyone had to travel over here.
00:05:44.000 Most of the European populace obviously is not native, those kind of things.
00:05:47.680 And so this gives the idea that America is just these waves of different levels of immigration.
00:05:52.380 But I've had it put to me this way, and I think this is exactly right.
00:05:55.760 America isn't a nation of immigrants. It's a nation of settlers.
00:05:59.720 I mean, if we're being honest, it's a nation of conquerors, right?
00:06:02.780 It's a nation of people who cut a country out of the wilderness. 0.98
00:06:06.780 And that's much different than people who show up hundreds of years after the country has been built to apply for Social Security and Medicaid, right?
00:06:16.560 Well, of course. And, you know, even the people who were here prior to that, my co-author and I, Joshua Lysak, sometimes jokingly referred to what we call American Indians as Siberian Americans.
00:06:30.160 If we're going to go with the hyphenation, well, yeah, those are Siberian Americans because they're originally from Siberia.
00:06:36.480 So actually, everyone is from somewhere. That's just how the world works. That's how history works.
00:06:41.540 How far back do you want to go? But the point being is an American, and I would even go so far as to say that the word American should only apply to someone who came post the founding of the nation of America,
00:06:56.580 because, number one, that name in and of itself is a European name, right?
00:07:01.480 It was an Italian, a mapmaker, a cartographer, and the nation of America with the cities and the civic society and everything that we know of it as today did not exist prior to those early English colonies in the 1600s.
00:07:17.840 Now, the other way that this is often approached, and I hear this one on the right, there's a number of people, I think you've referred to them as the woke light,
00:07:28.340 who are very concerned about the definition of American.
00:07:33.120 And for them, the only proper definition is the propositional American, right?
00:07:38.340 You have to assent to these propositions, and that's what makes us Americans.
00:07:43.480 We're bound together by these ideas and this code, and don't get me wrong, as Americans, we have principles.
00:07:48.960 We do have an idea that permeates who we are and how we want to conduct ourselves, but ultimately that idea comes from our history and our tradition, right?
00:07:59.500 We have the English law tradition, the common law tradition, obviously all the cultural connections that come from that Anglo past, and Protestant Christianity.
00:08:08.280 These are the things that I think early on really defined the United States.
00:08:12.600 Now, obviously, we have added to that in time, and that's true of all nations, but the idea that anyone who walks in and says,
00:08:20.440 yes, I believe in these things is an American, that doesn't seem to work because as we're seeing from people like Mamdani or Omar or this guy, Omar, is it Fatech?
00:08:31.060 I'm not sure how to say it, out of Minneapolis.
00:08:33.540 All of these people entered the country legally at some point, but ultimately have rejected the creed of the United States.
00:08:42.600 They've rejected the proposition of the United States, but no one is deporting these people just for that.
00:08:48.100 I don't see these guys on the right who go with the propositional nation calling for the deportation of all these people who have rejected the American creed.
00:08:55.300 So how can you have a purely propositional nation when part of the proposition of the United States is, well, you get to speak your mind.
00:09:02.840 You get to have free speech.
00:09:04.240 You can't have both where someone has been ideological adherent, and also they can speak out against the ruling ideology if they wish, right?
00:09:12.060 Right, and this is where all of these things kind of go into play with each other, which, by the way, the woke lights, they want you to believe that America's founding fathers were some kind of wishy-washy classic liberal universalists
00:09:27.000 when you can just go look at some of the early laws they passed or the way that they conducted themselves state by state.
00:09:32.660 It's just clearly not true.
00:09:33.820 It's not even a little bit true. 0.98
00:09:35.540 And the idea then that they thought America would be this melting pot was ridiculous.
00:09:41.180 Even Benjamin Franklin, I'm from Pennsylvania originally, and even Benjamin Franklin was saying back then, he said, we have too many Germans in Pennsylvania. 0.69
00:09:49.140 We need to shut that down a little bit.
00:09:51.340 I don't know if he's referring specifically to the Amish or the Mennonite communities that were coming into central Pennsylvania.
00:09:56.700 But even then, you know, he would refer to the Germans as swarthy, you know, central Europeans.
00:10:03.900 And so, you know, this idea that they didn't have these beliefs, it's preposterous.
00:10:08.220 It's a historical, it doesn't actually reflect our history.
00:10:11.760 It, in fact, reflects a fake history that they are attempting to foist upon the United States. 0.57
00:10:17.340 And it's just not true.
00:10:18.520 It's just not there.
00:10:19.080 Now, when you talk about this, and people, people get like really scared when you start saying, well, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, heritage.
00:10:27.280 Okay, okay, guys, give example, give example.
00:10:30.220 I'll say like, do you know who Romeo and Juliet are?
00:10:32.880 Do you know Romeo and Juliet?
00:10:34.040 Okay, well, why do you know that?
00:10:35.840 Why do you care about Romeo and Juliet?
00:10:37.680 Romeo and Juliet was written 500 years ago by a British playwright.
00:10:42.280 So 500 years ago by a playwright that's not from our country, why does Romeo and Juliet resonate with you?
00:10:48.580 Because you are part of that culture.
00:10:51.680 Because the cultural heritage that is extended upon you that continues in a, you know, you can call it unbroken or you could call it in a complex tapestry of history and cultural history that extends from Britain of Shakespeare's time all the way till now.
00:11:11.720 That's why you know who Romeo and Juliet are.
00:11:14.840 When I was in China, they don't make references to Romeo and Juliet.
00:11:17.900 Guess what they make references to?
00:11:19.360 Chinese poets, Chinese history.
00:11:21.700 They bring up Chinese, you know, generals, which are also woven into Chinese history.
00:11:27.880 And that's their point of reference because that's their shared point of reference.
00:11:31.260 So when you're living in that country, when you're living in that area, even though I myself, I am not Anglo-Saxon, I'm not Protestant, but guess what?
00:11:39.060 I'm in this country and I'm in this cultural tradition in the Anglo-sphere because that's what the Anglo-sphere is, the English-speaking nations.
00:11:49.260 It's more than just a language.
00:11:51.480 It is a cultural identity that people have woven into over time.
00:11:56.220 This is what makes you a people.
00:11:58.020 And that's different from just being able to, like, go to Wikipedia and say, oh, I'm going to research all of the stuff that I'm supposed to know from being in this tradition and Photoshop it onto.
00:12:08.220 No, no, no, it just doesn't work.
00:12:11.180 And I think at this point it's gotten to the breaking point because we have now these ethnic enclaves within the United States. 0.94
00:12:17.560 And you mentioned a few of them just in your opening, talking about Ilhan Omar's district or Rashida Tlaib's district.
00:12:23.760 New York City is certainly becoming a sort of version of this where you're seeing, like, the ethnic enclaves vote against, or at least these portions of them vote against other members of ethnic enclaves.
00:12:35.080 And the big difference here is there is no assimilation because post-1965, and you can see Robert Putnam has done so much work on this, that the assimilation hasn't taken place because we're importing so many people from so many radically different cultures again and again and again.
00:12:54.700 And I think it really just puts the lie to the test that not anyone can just become an American.
00:13:01.360 It doesn't work.
00:13:01.900 Yeah, and that's really critical because, of course, the story of America is the story of a number of different populations adding to that Anglo-Protestant core, right?
00:13:12.120 And I love to go to the work of Samuel Huntington because I think both he's a very intelligent guy and he's also someone who was more of a center-left Harvard professor, right?
00:13:20.760 This is not some bomb-throwing right-wing radical.
00:13:22.840 But he made the same point that you're referencing with Putnam there, that ultimately these highly diverse communities, they tend to have lower social trust because they don't have any level of assimilation.
00:13:34.480 And Huntington's point is if you ignore the core of what America is, which we have basically done since the Hart-Celler Act, and said, oh, well, anyone can be American from anywhere and it doesn't matter.
00:13:45.960 When you do that, there's nothing for new immigrants to assimilate to. 0.96
00:13:50.020 And so not everyone who comes to the United States is going to be, as you point out, Anglo or Protestant.
00:13:55.120 But if you're coming to the United States, you are looking to adapt to that culture.
00:13:59.420 You are looking to assimilate to that culture.
00:14:01.460 When you understand that that is the majority culture and when you maintain a demographic majority of that culture, then it becomes very clear that the few people who come in need to adapt and change.
00:14:11.940 Maybe they don't go all the way.
00:14:13.220 Maybe they don't magically become Anglo or Protestant, but they make cultural changes.
00:14:17.640 They make lifestyle changes that bring them closer in line with this.
00:14:22.080 They don't sit in, as you pointed out, ethnic enclaves that defend their language from another country, their history, their heritage from another country.
00:14:31.440 They don't frequently go back to another country and refer to it as their homeland.
00:14:36.160 These are basic changes that must be made and not everybody can do it.
00:14:39.760 It seems like, from what we can tell, those who were more likely to regularly interact with the Anglo tradition are the ones who are more able to adapt to the Anglo tradition, which means more Europeans have been able to adapt than others.
00:14:54.200 That's not 100% the case.
00:14:55.860 There are a few European groups that have been difficult to assimilate.
00:14:59.180 There have been some, for instance, Asian groups that are slightly easier to assimilate.
00:15:03.980 But the general rule seems to be that the more contact your civilization had with an Anglo civilization, the more compatible you are with possible assimilation when you arrive in the United States.
00:15:15.060 Yeah, and again, this is just history.
00:15:17.580 So everything that we're saying right now isn't even a, you know, we're not making normative arguments.
00:15:23.040 We're just making descriptive arguments.
00:15:24.740 This is just history.
00:15:25.640 This is just the way things happened, the way things went down.
00:15:28.820 And so when you look at things like the American founding or things like, you know, the history of Thanksgiving.
00:15:36.900 This is why, by the way, Thanksgiving itself has become such a national flashpoint in these culture wars because there's this idea of an American history where Thanksgiving, you know, was Thanksgiving a, quote, unquote, settler holiday?
00:15:52.660 And people say, why do you care so much about Thanksgiving?
00:15:54.240 Because, no, it actually matters so much in terms of policy, in terms of our national vision, in terms of whether or not we're going to continue as this.
00:16:03.680 So Thanksgiving, Christopher Columbus, all of these things that refer back to America's original founding and our actual history moving forward, then become under assault.
00:16:14.480 Because you'll see these groups who particularly, you know, tend to be immigrants who had nothing to do with either, you know, American Indians or any of these other, you know, any of these other groups that were around at the time.
00:16:28.740 Or, you know, you know, like, why are they so against the South and the Confederates or something?
00:16:33.840 I think it's such an issue.
00:16:35.180 People weren't even here back then in 1860.
00:16:37.700 It had nothing to do with you.
00:16:39.020 And you're not African-American or related anyway.
00:16:41.900 And it's because it's part of this 1619 version of America where they can use to attack the social fabric and the cultural fabric of what they view as the current status quo in America.
00:16:56.640 Tear that down and then replace it with a new revolutionary core.
00:17:00.280 That's why they want to replace Christopher Columbus Day with, you know, Indigenous People's Day.
00:17:05.240 That's why they want to teach you, you know, teach your kids that Thanksgiving was, you know, it was not done by, you know, these nice colonists.
00:17:13.380 It was actually this horrible, tragic genocide of the Indians and bring that up over and over and over.
00:17:19.100 Why?
00:17:19.940 Because they want to take power.
00:17:22.400 It's really that simple.
00:17:23.600 And that's where these ideas lead.
00:17:26.800 Let me ask you this, because I think a large part of this is also technology.
00:17:31.560 You know, we had large waves of immigration previously.
00:17:35.240 The Irish and Italians were often treated as not welcome because they had a foreign religion at that time.
00:17:42.640 They were understood as a different culture.
00:17:44.580 But over time, they were able to weave their way into the American fabric.
00:17:49.060 But a big reason why was that there was no ability to instantly send money back to the homeland, visit the homeland again, make a phone call back to grandma in Italy.
00:17:59.940 You couldn't, you know, you couldn't send an email.
00:18:03.120 You couldn't continue to listen to all the music and consume all the media from your home country.
00:18:08.360 Yes, there were often ethnic enclaves.
00:18:09.940 People did all move into Irish neighborhoods or Italian neighborhoods, but those neighborhoods were kind of cut off from the countries they came from, right? 0.73
00:18:19.760 Now, anyone can immediately call back to Somalia, call back to Mexico, send money to their family.
00:18:26.580 They can stay in touch constantly, and they can live inside their ethnic enclave.
00:18:30.460 So really, we even have this phenomenon where a large number of people will get asylum from countries like Haiti or Somalia, and then we'll go back on vacation, which is just absolute madness.
00:18:40.560 So I think there has been a big shift in the ability of these ethnic enclaves to sustain themselves, not just internally, but they can continue to network and create this greater Somalia or greater Mexico or all these other country effect where they can project their influence into the countries they're in rather than assimilating to the ones they've moved to. 0.64
00:18:59.160 Yeah, you can actually hear Omar Fatah mention this in one of those clips that someone pulls up from him where he's talking about how his enclave of Somalia is an extension of greater Somalia, so his diaspora.
00:19:14.880 And what we've really done, and technology does enable this, is create, you know, turn America from a nation and devolved it into a nation of mini nations.
00:19:26.340 So there are now mini nations within the United States, within the greater nation, and people can all sense this.
00:19:33.140 People can certainly sense this, and you see this reflected in, and I keep bringing this up, the breakdown of civic society since the 1960s.
00:19:40.640 Go read Bowling Alone from Putnam that really walks into this, and just the complete lack of participation to how people want to hunker down.
00:19:48.440 This, by the way, has a massive depressive effect on birth rates because people are less certain, people feel less secure.
00:19:56.080 And when you're surrounded by these mini nations, and you're not a member of them, right, you want to find your nation.
00:20:03.360 You want to find your people.
00:20:05.120 And the sort of, like, fake sitcom Hollywood Netflix America where it's like, oh, everyone's super diverse, and there's all these offices where everyone's, like, really cool and working together.
00:20:16.180 Like, it just doesn't work.
00:20:17.380 It doesn't even work in reality, that in reality people do kind of seek like.
00:20:23.740 It's just normal.
00:20:24.660 It's just natural.
00:20:25.340 And so when people do this through technology, not only are they able to continue in these diasporas, but even you're seeing it with Omar Fattah, who he was born in the United States, and yes, on paper.
00:20:39.180 So he's born in the U.S., and he's lived in the U.S. his whole life.
00:20:42.800 He may have traveled back and forth, I don't know, but he refers to it as our home because in his world within that community, that is the homeland.
00:20:52.560 They do have a direct tie to it, and you're talking beyond just text messages.
00:20:56.840 I mean, I remember what I was talking about when I lived in China.
00:20:59.480 You know, back then I had to use the calling cards to be able to get back home, and you had to check, you know, when was the right time, and someone's by the phone.
00:21:06.400 Now, you could be on FaceTime all day long just having a video call with someone in Somalia.
00:21:13.660 I know they are because I see my Uber drivers doing it all the time in Washington, D.C., and having these just, you know, eight-hour conversations that just go nowhere.
00:21:22.820 And so there's these massive extensions of that sort of communal living that extend to the United States mentally as well as, you know, as well as physically back home.
00:21:35.540 And so, and the more you import, the more you're just importing and growing that mini-nation, which never actually, you know, breaks.
00:21:43.920 And so the bubble never melts into the rest of the United States.
00:21:47.180 You're just extending the size of the mini-nation.
00:21:50.420 Now, you know, people used to refer, you would hear this on the right call, they would talk about, like, no-go zones and Sharia zones and things like that. 0.72
00:21:56.780 But I don't even think it's as hyperbolic as that.
00:21:59.040 I think just what it really is is you're importing a group of people who have formed, who have their own nation and will continue to have their own nation for all the reasons that we've outlined here.
00:22:10.420 And they view their allegiance towards that than they do certainly to anything here in the United States.
00:22:16.980 Yeah, and I do have people saying they're having a hard time hearing you.
00:22:19.740 So if you have the opportunity to turn up your game a little bit, that'd be awesome.
00:22:23.240 Oh, there you go.
00:22:24.880 Let me see anything I can do.
00:22:26.820 But as you were saying there, I think this is why so many people are now addressing legal immigration as well as illegal immigration.
00:22:35.380 Because for a very long time, the talking points from the GOP were, okay, yes, we support borders, those kind of things.
00:22:42.960 But ultimately, we're only against the illegal version of immigration.
00:22:47.980 Now, more and more people are recognizing that, yes, we, of course, have to close the border.
00:22:52.440 We need to deport those who are here illegally. 1.00
00:22:55.200 But we also need to look at the problem of legal immigration.
00:22:58.400 Because when you have a guy like Mom Donnie coming to the United States, well, he's born here.
00:23:03.520 He's a first generation.
00:23:05.300 His parents immigrated.
00:23:06.820 He's the first born naturally on U.S. soil.
00:23:09.380 But he immediately wants to change everything about the United States.
00:23:12.720 This is not a guy who is interested in any way folding his country into the U.S.
00:23:17.060 He wants to be able to operate the United States as this, like, Tower of Babel economic zone.
00:23:22.200 He doesn't have any interest in the history.
00:23:24.340 He has any interest in the culture.
00:23:26.200 He isn't interested in perpetuating the traditions or holding the values in the United States.
00:23:30.960 His entire purpose here is to, you know, deconstruct America as we understand it.
00:23:36.700 And a lot of people have focused on the fact that he's a Muslim.
00:23:40.260 You know, and, of course, I strongly believe that we should not have Islamic politicians. 1.00
00:23:47.340 I don't think that that is something that we should have in the United States.
00:23:50.520 It's a foreign religion completely incompatible with the U.S. 1.00
00:23:53.100 But it's not just his Islamic status.
00:23:56.200 He is willing to work with pretty much anyone in New York who is interested in dismantling the United States as we know it.
00:24:03.000 He's a Muslim who's pushing trans ideology and these kind of things.
00:24:06.720 And so it really becomes clear that ultimately even these legal immigrants often are only interested in what they can do to dismantle the U.S. 0.99
00:24:14.560 or what they can do to glean advantages for their people as they see it out of the U.S., not in any way being a part of the American experience.
00:24:24.160 Hey, let me just let me just ask.
00:24:25.920 Is that did that help my mic at all?
00:24:27.640 They're still a little quiet.
00:24:29.580 I don't know if you're able to turn that up at all.
00:24:31.440 It's got to be something with the I don't know.
00:24:34.260 That's OK.
00:24:34.880 We'll we'll suffer.
00:24:35.540 You're you're still I can still hear you.
00:24:37.740 Just some people are saying our volume was really mismatched.
00:24:40.280 So but yeah, yeah, no, it's my normal.
00:24:44.880 And now you're cut off.
00:24:46.460 Now you're now you're muted.
00:24:48.820 Yeah, now I can't hear you.
00:24:52.680 Can you hear me now?
00:24:53.980 Yes.
00:24:54.400 And you're louder.
00:24:55.300 So that's good.
00:24:55.840 All right, cool.
00:24:56.220 Yeah, I'll try to speak up a little bit, too.
00:24:58.720 It could just be a software thing.
00:24:59.720 And so this this is something that I want to get into in the sense that when people are looking at these, when people are looking at these things, right, it's you have a tendency and a lot of people have a tendency to get very statistical and abstract with it.
00:25:20.000 I'll just tell you as a story.
00:25:21.060 So I lived through this in my lifetime.
00:25:24.680 My town in in Narstown, Pennsylvania, right outside of Philadelphia was was one of these towns where I grew up and I had a very small taste of what I'm talking about.
00:25:35.680 That's why this issue is so important to me and so close to my home, like literally that I lived in the house that my father grew up in, which was a house purchased by his father in a town where my family had lived for 100 years.
00:25:51.560 My house was 80 years old by the time that we or that I was born.
00:25:57.220 And and by the way, this was a it was like a like a row home in Narstown.
00:26:01.860 It was meant for workers, you know, but but it was very nice.
00:26:05.100 It was so much nicer than the house that, you know, even the the homes you get now, the woodworking, stained glass windows, you know, but that was that was standard at turn of the century.
00:26:13.280 And so the the the difference, though, is that starting in the late 90s, Section 8 started really coming in and housing and urban development came in and started putting up all these homes and all these blocks for that type of housing.
00:26:33.000 And so crime really started flooding in in our country or in our town.
00:26:38.780 And then all of a sudden in 2002, our town, we didn't have a name for it back then, but it became a sanctuary city.
00:26:48.040 So that's the easiest way to put it.
00:26:49.800 They started accepting Mexican consular, you know, identification for people to rent a home or buy a home and access public services.
00:26:58.460 And so it became one of the areas that was totally flooded by Mexican illegal immigration.
00:27:06.620 And in a weird way, we're like the Mexican consulate was well aware of what was going on and totally supported it.
00:27:12.980 And the town council thought it was great, too, because they said, hey, this is going to be more people that are coming into our town.
00:27:18.500 Well, my family got out because crime absolutely skyrocketed.
00:27:23.060 And this was a town, you know, the kids who I grew up with were the kids that my parents had grown up with, like that my father had been friends with.
00:27:33.220 And they still lived in the same homes as their parents because that's just how it was.
00:27:37.960 You know, Irish, Italian, Polish living in this area and completely flooded by crime, 1.00
00:27:44.000 completely flooded by people who had no interest in making the town any better, but just looking at it as an economic, you know, an economic suction zone where they could just extract whatever resources they could from the town and then move on.
00:28:01.340 And that's how it is now.
00:28:02.600 You go and look at the town is absolutely filled with crime.
00:28:05.520 It's absolutely filled with illegals. 1.00
00:28:07.080 It's actually funny enough, just a couple of days ago, I got some videos because there was some some liberal activist group was trying to help out and there was an ice raid in the town.
00:28:17.420 So the ice raid finally 20 years in the making that I've been waiting for this.
00:28:21.440 We've seen ice raids going on in my hometown because I talk about this all the time and people are like, OK, so it's probably just trying to.
00:28:27.500 No, no, it's really bad.
00:28:29.100 It's actually really bad.
00:28:30.720 And so I've lived with this.
00:28:33.020 I've seen how it destroys communities.
00:28:35.440 I wish that my kids now could live in a community like the one that I had.
00:28:41.800 They they are few and far between.
00:28:44.260 And no, I don't want to have to go move halfway around the country to be able to find something like this.
00:28:49.900 We should be able to have those in the ones where my family lived.
00:28:54.040 My I was baptized in the same church that my father was and the same church that his father was.
00:28:59.560 And then my kids couldn't be baptized there because of all of these forces working together.
00:29:05.820 That's what I'm talking about.
00:29:07.600 That's what this is about.
00:29:08.740 You know, it's really amazing because we look at people like Elon Musk who worry about people having children.
00:29:16.840 Why are we having enough children? 0.93
00:29:17.920 There isn't enough replacement birth rate.
00:29:19.940 And then you look at exactly the problems you're pointing out, that we are actively transforming neighborhoods.
00:29:25.960 All of the research, like you said, with Putnam shows that when you increase diversity in the neighborhood, people are less likely to trust each other.
00:29:33.540 They're less likely to go out and spend time talking to each other.
00:29:36.100 And very importantly, they're less likely to have children because they're unsure about the future.
00:29:40.220 They don't know what's going on. 1.00
00:29:41.580 We have a lot of people looking at the mom Donnie's of the world and saying, well, how could people be so stupid? 1.00
00:29:47.160 He's an open communist. 1.00
00:29:48.460 He's an open Marxist.
00:29:49.780 We know Marxism loses.
00:29:51.880 And so how can you rationally look at this?
00:29:53.840 But this is the wrong way to understand it.
00:29:55.400 It's not about rationality.
00:29:57.520 Guys like my mom, mom Donnie, they're not here to like prove an economic theory.
00:30:01.580 They're here to loot you.
00:30:03.160 Right.
00:30:03.460 Like they don't care.
00:30:04.320 Like the Marxism, the Islam, the colonialist narrative. 0.95
00:30:07.700 It's just that it's a narrative to justify why it's okay to redistribute your money, why it's okay to break apart your neighborhood.
00:30:15.980 That's the actual answer.
00:30:17.580 It's ethnic resentment.
00:30:18.580 It's the ability to withdraw value from a neighborhood that you don't value because you didn't build it.
00:30:25.500 And then, like you said, they can just move on.
00:30:27.200 But for those of us who have generations of family in the same area or in this country, ultimately, we're the ones losing out.
00:30:35.080 But most American politicians, they don't care because as long as the GDP goes up inside their district, they can run around saying, look, I did something amazing.
00:30:45.220 They don't have to notice that no one in their district is able to buy a home or have children anymore.
00:30:51.160 Yeah, you get these GDP firsters who, you know, just don't quite actually look at the root causes of any of this.
00:30:57.200 And so that's where, you know, I can appreciate where Elon's coming from when he says we need to get our birth rates up.
00:31:02.620 And, you know, it's just that he doesn't seem to be looking at the broader picture of why the average person isn't having more kids.
00:31:10.960 And it is, broadly speaking, economic.
00:31:13.580 And I talk about this in Unhumans.
00:31:15.640 We talk about it on Human Events Daily that it, you know, and to add perhaps something to Andrew Breitbart's, you know, famous, famous adage about politics being downstream of culture.
00:31:26.520 I would, I would simply point out that culture is downstream of economics.
00:31:33.520 And what I mean by that is people say, oh, well, your money is most important.
00:31:37.480 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:31:38.460 What I'm saying is when you have a culture that is allowed to be able to breathe freely, that is allowed to be able to survive, that is allowed to be able to flourish, then that will posit good culture beyond that.
00:31:52.880 When a people are able to have that, that good commerce, that natural commerce.
00:31:56.340 But when you have this mass, these massive artificial waves coming in of people that don't share our values, that people have no heritage whatsoever in common with the people who live here now and are brought in through this massive series of government programs and NGOs and this huge archipelago of secret systems to be able to bring them in. 0.98
00:32:18.000 And then obviously you are going to dilute all of these things and it's being done in the name of economics.
00:32:26.020 So you have to get the economics right for the people before you can have a better culture, before you can have a healthy culture or before you can have healthy politics.
00:32:34.580 We simply don't have those.
00:32:36.000 And we're looking downstream of an upstream problem.
00:32:38.380 Yeah, the people have to be served by the economics.
00:32:42.100 The economics can't serve the people, right?
00:32:44.300 And that's really critical.
00:32:46.300 And in understanding that ultimately these values, these abstract understandings of who we are, they come from something concrete.
00:32:54.980 They come from the people themselves.
00:32:57.100 This idea of limited government, this idea of self-government, these ideas that are often tied to the founding, you know, ordered liberty, these things came from a particular culture, a particular tradition, particular way of life.
00:33:11.000 Stephen Miller was just on with some talking head.
00:33:14.660 I forget which one.
00:33:15.740 And he said something that shocked them, but it should be fairly obvious.
00:33:19.620 He said, look, the problem with Haiti is that there are Haitians who live there and run it the way that they run it. 1.00
00:33:26.240 The problem with Somalia is that Somalians run Somalia the way that they do. 1.00
00:33:30.860 You can't just take all the people who make up those countries that are not doing well, drop them in a concentrated ball in some Midwestern, you know, city in the United States and expect that place to not be much like the places they left.
00:33:45.800 Yes, one, two, maybe three of these people from a country that can assimilate and be part of a community.
00:33:52.900 Maybe over time, many generations, they might move towards more of the American way of life, but there is zero chance that you just move Somalia or Haiti to the United States.
00:34:02.580 And that fixes the problem because the problem is tied to the way of being of the people who were in that country in the first place.
00:34:09.880 Yeah, and we spent trillions of dollars trying to do this during the War on Terror and the failed nation building project, thinking that we could export the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. system to places like Iraq and Afghanistan that are totally unprepared for it and totally uninterested in it.
00:34:27.480 You're not going to have Jeffersonian, you know, democracy just spring forth in the Middle East, which has no background in it whatsoever.
00:34:36.280 This is a tribal culture. This is a culture that is very clannish. 1.00
00:34:41.860 The cousin marriages and Steve Saylor's talked about this, how it just doesn't work and there's so much interconnectivity there.
00:34:48.380 And so the idea that you can import a group of people from one of those areas here and change it.
00:34:56.120 Look, here's what I said in my speech. If you took the entire population of the United States and swapped it, right, you think of the mental experiment, swapped it with the people of Afghanistan. 1.00
00:35:05.760 So all the all the Americans are now living in Afghanistan. All the Afghanis are now living here. 1.00
00:35:11.600 Guess what? You're not going to magically just change the system.
00:35:17.200 No, we America, we'd make Afghanistan look more like America and we would make America look more like Afghanistan. 0.91
00:35:25.160 That's exactly what would happen, because the system is not the words on the piece of paper.
00:35:30.460 The American system is the American people.
00:35:33.080 Absolutely. And before we let time get away from us, because I want to make sure we hit this.
00:35:38.780 It's so important, you know, dovetailing onto all of this.
00:35:41.920 Obviously, President Trump finally gets the ICE funding he's been fighting for.
00:35:46.340 We know that border crossings are already way down.
00:35:49.000 I think that's the greatest accomplishment of the Trump administration so far, taking them so, so low compared to what especially Biden was doing.
00:35:57.240 It's just insane. But everybody is waiting for the deportations, right?
00:36:00.640 They've started. We're getting the worst people out. But people know ultimately we're going to need larger scale deportations.
00:36:06.180 So they back this ICE funding. And the minute it passes, the minute it passes, 10 Republicans turn around and immediately stab every GOP voter in the back.
00:36:17.220 We have Maria Salazar of Florida here. And she is already pushing this dignity program, which is just rebranded amnesty. 1.00
00:36:26.920 And it's so clearly rebranded amnesty. You know, the bill is so sloppy.
00:36:32.780 It doesn't even let you look at local and federal databases to see if one of the people applying for this program is a gang member like that's that's how ridiculous this bill is. 0.73
00:36:44.480 But we're already seeing this. Why is the GOP or why are portions of the GOP so dead set on betraying the MAGA voters right after they finally get the enforcement budget that is necessary to execute the plan that Donald Trump promised?
00:36:58.920 Look, this is something that MAGA voters have to be so strong on, by the way, then they're going to play on your sensibilities.
00:37:07.020 They're going to play on your Christian sensibilities. They're going to say, oh, well, you know, they just want to work here. 0.90
00:37:12.920 They just want to be helpful. First of all, Molly Tibbetts, by the way, was murdered by a farm worker in Iowa about one hour away from where the Iowa fairgrounds is.
00:37:23.180 So, no, these people are not supposed to be here in the first place. Number one. Number two, they're creating these these mini nations within our nation.
00:37:29.760 And number three, they're here for economic extraction. They are not here to make America better.
00:37:34.700 But also the reason that the GOP and many factors of the GOP are for this is because you have so much of the Chamber of Commerce and these groups that want the cheap labor here that obviously know about the illegal labor, that obviously know what's going on because they're all in on it.
00:37:52.840 And they want to continue that gravy train coming in. The Democrats, of course, want it for the votes and and also, by the way, the dilution of the national census for their congressional districts.
00:38:04.680 And so you can you can talk about the morality of this all day long.
00:38:08.280 But when it really comes down to it, the way to fight back is you have to push against any of these ideas of a soft amnesty or a dignity, man.
00:38:17.860 That is so like Orwellian. It's a dignity. What about the dignity of the American people?
00:38:23.220 What about justice for people? And I said to somebody on on on Twitter the other day when they said, well, I'm a practicing Catholic and how can I support deportations?
00:38:31.080 I said, OK, no, I understand that. But, you know, what about the justice for people who had to flee their homes in the face of this this mass of people completely overtaking your town and collapsing all of those systems?
00:38:45.760 Where's justice for that? Where's justice for the millions upon millions of Americans who had to uproot and leave cities, towns and villages or wherever where they were living in the face of all this or people who lost jobs because of this?
00:39:00.520 By the way, economically speaking, this is also one of the huge issues with automation, because when you have this massive cheap labor force, it disincentivizes automation.
00:39:11.880 So guess what? You know, you're not even going to need a low level labor force is one of those ridiculous arguments that they make over and over again.
00:39:19.840 You're not even going to need this if you push for automation. But why would they want to do why would they why would these businesses want to put in the capital costs for buying one of these, you know, auto pickers or whatever it is for for, you know, cotton, tomatoes, apples, you know, mention it because they have this cheap labor force.
00:39:37.140 So, again, you know, it's something you're not going to need. And then, oh, by the way, when automation does hit, what are we going to do with this huge population that you've brought in?
00:39:46.420 And that's what leads to these revolutionary looter forces that you're talking about and Azorah Mandami, because you're creating the economic pressures and tensions that lead to a Marxist revolution.
00:39:58.960 No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca.
00:40:15.240 That's exactly correct. And this is so obvious that it's insane that this is not just a core argument that is brought up over and over again. Eventually, these jobs will get automated out of existence.
00:40:26.940 That's the goal of everyone right now who's working in these fields anyway. So we're bringing in millions and millions of usually military aged men, single.
00:40:38.860 They're going to they came here because they just saw the economic zone. They don't care about the United States. They're completely detached from the culture.
00:40:45.780 They're entirely invested in some kind of ethnic enclave and have no interest in the wider United States. 0.94
00:40:51.960 And then while they're sitting around in the U.S., you're going to tell me that you're going to cut off basically all of their opportunities to be employed.
00:40:59.700 You're going to replace everything that they came here for. What is going to happen?
00:41:04.240 Obviously, like you said, you're going to end up with an insurgent force. That's exactly what happens.
00:41:08.960 Maybe if you're lucky, just politically, a bunch of guys, you know, engaging in some kind of Marxist activism.
00:41:15.140 But more likely, it will spread to violent politics. We've already seen assaults on ICE agents.
00:41:21.140 We've already seen the attempted killing of ICE agents. It's only going to get worse.
00:41:25.580 These people are only going to get more violent as they recognize this as an existential threat to the type of life that they wanted to cultivate inside the United States.
00:41:33.740 Imagine piling on the fact that they can't even get the jobs.
00:41:36.820 They can't even hold the jobs that they thought that they were going to hold.
00:41:39.240 They're not going to make any of the money. They're not going to be having any of this success.
00:41:42.540 Their desperation will skyrocket, and you will naturally see waves and waves of possible immigrant terrorism inside the United States.
00:41:51.300 I don't think it's a stretch at all to expect exactly that outcome.
00:41:55.120 By the way, when the L.A. anti-ICE riots were taking place, if people remember, one of the ubiquitous images that we saw throughout all of that was the burning of Waymos.
00:42:05.580 And I remember, so Waymos are these driverless taxis.
00:42:08.680 They have them in Phoenix. They've introduced them in L.A., San Francisco.
00:42:12.300 I hear that we're getting them here in D.C. pretty soon. I hate them so much. 0.84
00:42:15.940 I refuse to ride in one, but I saw they were burning the Waymos, and I said, oh, look, they're going after the competition. 0.98
00:42:23.360 Well, Jack, let me ask you this as we're wrapping up here, and I don't know if I know you're busy.
00:42:28.860 I don't know if you have time to take some questions from the audience or not, but before we let's do some.
00:42:33.740 Okay, great. Okay. Well, before we go to the questions of the people, then, let me ask you this final question.
00:42:38.860 Here is my basic premise. This should be the counter-argument, the counter-offer to those pushing the amnesty deal, right?
00:42:45.900 Ultimately, I think in the United States, we need at minimum a 15-year, maybe longer, but at minimum a 15-year legal immigration moratorium.
00:42:55.900 Some carve-outs for people getting married, those kind of things.
00:42:59.060 You know, if you find Einstein somewhere, okay, you can bring him in.
00:43:02.080 But in general, we need a moratorium on the vast amount of immigration we have coming into the United States, and when we finally do coalesce back as a nation, find our community, find our identity, at that point, we need an immigration system that is multi-generational.
00:43:19.080 You might, if you prove to be culturally compatible and you are allowed the honor of entering the United States as a temporary visitor or worker, these kind of things, you have to be here multiple generations before your descendants can begin involving themselves in the voting process.
00:43:37.360 No more, hey, I come here, I have a kid here, and that kid immediately can start voting stuff for my community apart from the United States.
00:43:43.620 We need a multi-generational way to weave people into the fabric of the U.S., and only after we've had the kind of moratorium that will allow us to reestablish our national identity.
00:43:55.020 No, I think that all sounds like stuff I agree with.
00:43:58.120 I mean, this idea that anyone can – by the way, I even know for a fact that there are people now, when you go to take the test, even if you don't speak English, they teach you, like, the actual questions and then what your responses should be.
00:44:13.440 But it's like a rote memorization kind of thing.
00:44:16.240 So rather than learning the language, because you're supposed to, you know, you have to do the test in English.
00:44:20.160 That's one of the requirements.
00:44:20.700 You're supposed to learn English.
00:44:21.460 But what they'll do is they'll go through these courses where they do the rote memorization.
00:44:24.920 Then you can get in.
00:44:26.160 Now, boom, oh, I've taken the test.
00:44:27.800 But you didn't even learn English in the first place, and you're not doing the work whatsoever.
00:44:32.300 So the whole system is broken.
00:44:33.820 The whole system needs an absolute revamp.
00:44:35.840 And we need to get back to – you know, I'd love to get back to the pre-1965 immigration system whereby you do have area caps where we look at, okay, what do we actually need as a country, right? 0.62
00:44:52.620 So what do we need?
00:44:54.380 What do the American people need?
00:44:56.120 What does our country need?
00:44:57.180 Are there economic interests that can be served by immigration that help us and not just, you know, corporate powers?
00:45:04.460 And then figure it out from there going back to that situation.
00:45:08.840 You remember Ted Kennedy, he even had quotes that, oh, this is not going to change the ethnic makeup of the United States.
00:45:13.760 It's just a complete lie.
00:45:14.800 It's just a complete and utter lie.
00:45:16.080 And it is okay, as you're alluding to pre-Heart Seller, it is okay to have a policy of preferring people into your country who will be compatible with your country.
00:45:28.360 There is nothing wrong with that.
00:45:30.040 There's nothing shameful about that.
00:45:31.960 It is okay to prefer people, as you say, who are going to benefit your country and will be compatible, will be able to adopt the language, will be able to adopt the lifestyle, will fit into the United States.
00:45:43.740 And that's not going to be everyone.
00:45:45.160 And it's okay to say that.
00:45:46.940 It's okay to say that we are explicitly choosing people because they benefit this country, not because this country might benefit their checkbook at some point.
00:45:55.080 I think that's a very clear thing that we need to be doing.
00:45:57.980 Well, before we go to the questions of the people, Jack, I think most people probably know what you're doing, but I know you've got the book out there, the show.
00:46:04.160 Can you let people know where to find your great work?
00:46:06.540 Yeah, no, thank you.
00:46:07.140 I appreciate that.
00:46:07.560 We've got the book is Unhumans, The Secret History of Communist Revolutions and How to Crush Them, Jack Posobiec, Joshua Lysak.
00:46:15.420 And it's been out for a year.
00:46:17.140 And, man, it is still just selling like crazy.
00:46:20.160 It made New York Times bestseller.
00:46:21.700 And it's just one of those books where this isn't a, you know, a philosophical work where we're going to debate communism.
00:46:28.640 And we get into really more of what you're talking about here, where the communists don't actually believe in communism.
00:46:34.760 It's all just window dressing.
00:46:36.820 It is a scam.
00:46:37.860 Communism is a tactic of people who are resentful and angry and want to destroy whatever system they infect next out of this petty resentment, envy, jealousy, and rage.
00:46:50.380 This is why they do the things that they do.
00:46:53.420 And so we walk through a series of case studies of, you know, throughout history, and then we come up with ways to disrupt and destroy them, mostly through mocking, identifying, calling out what they're doing.
00:47:06.380 It's a lot of fun.
00:47:07.340 And, boy, they really hate us.
00:47:08.520 My favorite review of it, by the way, was we went so hard in the paint on this thing that the Communist Party of the USA actually wrote a huge takedown of the book trying to attack it.
00:47:18.760 And I said, boy, you know, you know you've done something right when the actual communists have to respond to you.
00:47:25.120 So we're out there on that.
00:47:27.660 The podcast is Human Events Daily.
00:47:31.020 And by the way, the speech that I gave at Turning Point last week that, you know, kind of generated this discussion, we're going to be posting that this.
00:47:39.060 We haven't even posted it because this week's been so busy.
00:47:41.380 It's been a binder of a week.
00:47:42.620 What can I say?
00:47:43.280 And so we're going to be posting that speech in full this weekend, Human Events Daily, wherever you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, et cetera.
00:47:50.340 We're up there.
00:47:51.540 Yeah.
00:47:51.980 Getting denounced by the Communist Party is kind of like getting denounced by the Church of Satan.
00:47:56.320 It's like, ah, well, I guess you got me guys.
00:47:58.140 I was so happy.
00:47:59.080 I was so proud.
00:47:59.900 I'm going to show all my Polish relatives about that one.
00:48:03.420 Thank you all.
00:48:03.980 Thank you for this incredible endorsement.
00:48:05.660 All right.
00:48:05.880 Let's go to the questions here real quick.
00:48:08.200 Of course, you guys should be checking out Jack's work and looking at the book.
00:48:11.840 All right.
00:48:12.180 Let's see here.
00:48:13.280 Bram Zwingel says, I love when people whose family got here in the past 50 years call me a fascist because I think I have more of a claim because my family came here on the Mayflower.
00:48:24.380 Yeah.
00:48:24.580 And that really is critical.
00:48:26.640 Again, there are, of course, terrible people whose families have been here for a long time.
00:48:32.120 But ultimately, the nation is its people.
00:48:34.560 And you have to recognize that perhaps if you get the gracious invitation to become part of America, you can weave yourself into the fabric of it.
00:48:44.340 But the idea that someone who got here five minutes ago and is going to lecture you on whether or not capitalism is a great evil and has to be overthrown, I think it's reasonable to do what Jack did and say, well, maybe that guy's not quite as American as the guy who's been here since the Mayflower.
00:48:57.860 Yeah.
00:48:58.140 Yeah.
00:48:58.620 Yeah.
00:48:58.900 I mean, look, you know, I've always felt very blessed to be in the United States.
00:49:07.600 America is the greatest country on planet Earth.
00:49:10.000 You know, I teach my kids to be patriotic as much as possible.
00:49:13.120 And that's something where, you know, you go out and you just you just look at it like at a baseball game or a football game or something where we still do the national anthem.
00:49:20.800 And that's that's one of the last actual civic rituals that we still have.
00:49:25.120 And you look and just in in my lifetime, in our lifetime, you've seen more and more people don't even stand up anymore and they're not teaching their kids to stand up.
00:49:34.040 And I would be I would I would not be a pundit or whatever I'm supposed to be, you know, worth my salt if I didn't point out that that it clearly seems to have an ethnic, you know, an ethnic character to that in terms of who stands up for it and who doesn't.
00:49:49.800 Yeah, absolutely. Again, people always say, well, I know an immigrant who is the most American person I know knows more about America.
00:49:57.660 Everyone else is proud to be American. And by the way, God bless those people. Right.
00:50:01.240 I'm more than happy. Right. But but but let's not pretend that that is always the reflection that that that's a one to one that that is, you know, that exceptional individual therefore reflects all of illegal and legal immigration.
00:50:14.900 These are not necessarily the same thing, even though, you know, you may know a fantastic immigrant who truly does love the United States and God bless them for it.
00:50:23.400 Well, and that's the problem. Right. Because you you may you do have those those situations.
00:50:27.480 But of course, that is completely overshadowed by the you know, the the vast bulk of the problems.
00:50:33.660 That's also what they call it, the Naxalt fallacy.
00:50:35.480 You need to be able to judge groups, you know, at scale.
00:50:40.180 You can't you can't just look at at one individual and say they represent everything about this group.
00:50:44.980 I want to project on great one one five or test, by the way.
00:50:48.960 Robert Winesfield says 1950s, you are what you are.
00:50:54.380 1990s, you can be whatever you want to be.
00:50:56.940 2020s, you are whatever you want to be.
00:50:59.420 Or more importantly, I think in this place, in case, Robert, you can be what they want you to be.
00:51:03.740 Right. Like this is this is ultimately you can be what you want to be, where you want to be.
00:51:07.900 Or, you know, the left can shape you into the type of soldier that they want you to be once you get here.
00:51:12.880 I think that's a big part of what a number of immigration fifth columns have become, unfortunately, in major American cities.
00:51:20.780 Yeah, we've gone from choose your own adventure to your adventure is chosen for you.
00:51:25.100 Right. And your adventure is you need to destroy the United States and everything that's been built here.
00:51:30.360 Yeah. Robert Winesfield also says, just hear me out, Sam Hyde, for Supreme Court justice.
00:51:36.280 Well, I mean, you know, Trump might get a shot at one more.
00:51:38.640 So, you know, we'll see.
00:51:40.740 But let's hope that Clarence stays with us.
00:51:42.520 But, you know, Sam Hyde could slide into that seat.
00:51:46.860 Mel Gibson, after four beers, says, I care about the Epstein list.
00:51:51.300 But the truth is, I ultimately care more about deportations.
00:51:54.440 Also, have you read, heard of Andrew Wilson?
00:51:57.260 And would you ever have him on?
00:51:58.860 You you're my two favorite channels.
00:52:00.940 And I think I'd be great.
00:52:02.260 I have not heard of Andrew Wilson.
00:52:03.500 If you want to send something my way, you want to email or shoot me something on Twitter, perhaps I can take a look.
00:52:09.760 But, Jack, we didn't get to talk about this.
00:52:11.380 And obviously, we're not going to have a ton of time to dive into it.
00:52:14.140 But, you know, the Epstein list obviously has become a flashpoint right now.
00:52:18.560 A lot of people are saying this could be a serious blow to the MAGA coalition.
00:52:23.660 I think ultimately a lot of people will hearten to see Trump talking about releasing grand jury testimony, depositions, these kind of things.
00:52:30.960 But ultimately, do you think this is an issue that can be resolved between the base and the administration?
00:52:36.380 Or is this an Internet thing that's just being overblown?
00:52:40.060 Well, I think we're seeing that.
00:52:41.800 By the way, I think I've seen Andrew Wilson on whatever, just to answer that question.
00:52:45.880 So I've seen him there.
00:52:47.400 That's that's all I've seen of his stuff.
00:52:48.780 I mean, it seemed pretty good.
00:52:49.920 I mean, I do more newsy type stuff.
00:52:52.420 So I don't know.
00:52:52.980 Yeah, I'm not familiar with him.
00:52:54.200 You know, come on for that.
00:52:55.180 But, you know, I wouldn't wouldn't be opposed to it.
00:52:56.780 But the the well, as far as Epstein goes, you know, I think it's become a flashpoint in the sense that, by the way, like people say it's an online thing.
00:53:06.120 And I'm like, Shane Gillis is joking about it on ESPN.
00:53:11.360 And the entire crowd is kind of important.
00:53:13.220 I mean, clearly this is broken.
00:53:15.760 Whatever whatever it was prior to then has has now grown into a much bigger thing.
00:53:22.760 And so there's the Streisand effect.
00:53:24.460 But what's amazing, though, is you saw President Trump come out last night and say that he does want to push for disclosure on this.
00:53:32.020 And, you know, apparently one of the things driving this was this Wall Street Journal story that had been kind of been it was I guess it was cooking in the background and not everybody realized it.
00:53:40.220 And that's was was leading towards some of the tension.
00:53:42.300 But it just really just fell apart when they when they put it out.
00:53:45.960 I don't think anyone buys it. 0.75
00:53:46.960 It was just so silly and I had the opposite, I think, intended effect of trying to make Trump look like he was connected to Epstein.
00:53:55.880 I think it just showed people how how tenuous and ridiculous this connection was other than just, you know, someone that he knew fleetingly from being in the Palm Beach scene, which has already been litigated and has been in the public for years. 0.79
00:54:08.620 And when it comes down to it, I mean, you know, Trump has been investigated again and again and again when it comes to this stuff.
00:54:13.720 But I do think on the Epstein files in general, the reason why it matters to people is because it's become an inflection point of, you know, sort of this this idea of shadowy elites who are operating for their own benefit, some possibly for these these deviant ideals and deviant perversions rather than for the benefit of the people.
00:54:37.880 And that really that really that really strikes to the heart of what the MAGA movement has always been about.
00:54:44.200 And that and Donald Trump as a figure, you know, he's been the man who came down from behind that curtain, came down the golden escalator and said, I'm going to tell you the truth about what goes on in those shadowy rooms because I was in there.
00:54:57.740 Yeah, that's really important, of course.
00:55:00.000 Like so many, I also put deportations and border security as my number one issue.
00:55:05.200 I want that to be what the administration does.
00:55:08.360 And I understand why ultimately they don't want to make their entire presidency about the Epstein files and all these things.
00:55:13.800 But there is a core value, as you just said, about ultimately understanding that the MAGA base wanted Donald Trump to unspool the Washington elite.
00:55:23.760 It wasn't just about one issue or one ideological thing.
00:55:27.380 Ultimately, they knew the swamp was corrupt.
00:55:29.320 They wanted him to clean it out.
00:55:31.640 And that's for them what I think Epstein represents.
00:55:35.200 Like you said, I don't think Trump was involved in this.
00:55:38.160 Ultimately, I don't think that that is a valid line.
00:55:42.020 I don't think that's why he is dodging this.
00:55:44.600 If it was, then it surely would have come out through all the different investigations of Trump.
00:55:49.080 The Democrats literally tried to put him in jail.
00:55:51.080 They just made up crimes.
00:55:52.280 So like if they had him on this, they would have they would have come for it.
00:55:55.620 So I think it really is ultimately about that unmasking of the elite class and making sure they can't just get away with everything.
00:56:02.380 That's what I think people are ultimately drawn to with the Epstein stuff.
00:56:06.180 Not necessarily, OK, one specific ideological piece or another.
00:56:09.820 Yeah, I think MAGA really comes down to sort of like it's it's it's people who like Trump plus people who hate the government.
00:56:18.400 Right. And those are like the two broad groups.
00:56:21.260 And so, you know, that obviously with a lot of overlap and a lot of various issues.
00:56:24.780 But that's that's kind of what it comes down to.
00:56:26.520 And this has become a huge flashpoint for that.
00:56:30.880 Fia Saninja says, do you think there's an ethnic American?
00:56:35.760 How would you define it?
00:56:36.940 Have you gone through ethnogenesis yet?
00:56:38.620 Is it still happening?
00:56:40.080 Do we have more claim to America than a good slash based immigrant? 1.00
00:56:45.760 So I went deep into this with Doug Wilson, actually.
00:56:50.260 So if people are interested in looking at longer dives, we're obviously not going to be able to spend two hours on it like we did there.
00:56:55.580 So if you want a deeper look into that.
00:56:58.200 But Cliff notes this one really quickly.
00:57:00.980 Basically, Doug's assertion was that there was an ethnogenesis in the United States and that the post 1965 immigration waves more or less broke any part of that coming together.
00:57:12.720 I think it's a little more complicated.
00:57:14.560 I think you have to look at civil war and a number of other things that set back the American ethnos as a solid identity.
00:57:23.200 Here's the one thing I know now.
00:57:24.620 We have to have one.
00:57:26.020 We have to be a unified nation.
00:57:27.840 And that's why I support an immigration moratorium and a focus on an Anglo-Protestant identity. 0.99
00:57:34.340 Again, not that everyone will convert to Protestantism or will magically turn Anglo.
00:57:39.360 But this idea that this, as Samuel Huntington put it, is kind of the guiding star for assimilation and the core of our culture.
00:57:46.980 If we recognize that, we have a better chance at forging an ethnos, creating an ethnos, having that ethnogenesis than if we just continue along our current path.
00:57:56.160 Yeah, no, I mean, my response is that, you know, I think we're that's basically what we've been talking about, you know, on on on, you know, podcast writ writ large.
00:58:08.100 But also that, you know, there's there's a lot of a lot of work out there that we're like not supposed to read.
00:58:15.020 I'll be on seed is a is a great example of this as well.
00:58:17.820 Talking about the different founding stocks of America as it came to be.
00:58:23.440 And then and then you go past that.
00:58:25.620 Plus, you know, there's there's this huge idea that like, oh, you know, oh, Ellis Island and totally changed the way.
00:58:32.380 But a lot of Ellis Islanders went home, too, by the way. 0.83
00:58:35.760 Not all of us.
00:58:36.620 And that, you know, it wasn't this massive transformation of the entire American ethnicity the way that we're seeing now.
00:58:48.820 It just it just wasn't.
00:58:49.880 The numbers just don't match.
00:58:52.580 We've got POSMO complaining about the mics a few times.
00:58:56.400 Let's see here.
00:58:57.080 We've got a philosophical thirst room.
00:58:58.860 He says, not really immigrants, but my hometown took in thousands of Katrina refugees and destroyed its safest town in the state. 1.00
00:59:05.660 And one now to one of the least safe.
00:59:08.620 And, you know, this is its own problem, right?
00:59:10.760 Just inside the country.
00:59:12.640 I live in Florida.
00:59:13.700 And fortunately, we are marred by waves of different northerner, you know, migration down here. 0.94
00:59:21.360 They run away from covid.
00:59:22.580 They run away from high taxes and they come down and they want to do exactly what immigrants do. 1.00
00:59:27.760 They want to immediately start voting for the policies that turn New York into New York or California to California.
00:59:33.240 So, yeah, this is this is even a smaller problem just when you're in the same nation with the same people speaking the same language.
00:59:39.460 Of course, it's going to be even more of a problem when you start bringing people from vastly different nations and cultures. 1.00
00:59:47.280 Yeah. And that's that's a great example of why we should take things like mass migration very, very seriously, because even within, you know, within one country, you can have these massive differences.
00:59:58.700 Also, America, of course, even even prior to 1965 was not entirely homogenous.
01:00:05.540 That's always been part of the American character.
01:00:08.040 And so these are things that actually should be taken very seriously. 0.84
01:00:10.780 And we shouldn't be told, oh, you shut up.
01:00:12.580 You're not allowed to talk about that because that's a you know, that's a no, no issue.
01:00:16.040 It's like, no, we're not we're not doing that anymore because we can all see the after effects of it and we can see how bad they've been.
01:00:21.880 Yeah, the hour is late. We don't have time to sit around and pretend like this isn't an issue.
01:00:27.200 Mark says, I have this the Sam Hyde approach.
01:00:30.100 We all know what an American is and what it isn't just a matter of who wins out.
01:00:34.600 Yeah. Again, I think that sometimes delving into the nuance really just creates an issue when you can just cut through and say, yeah, we we actually already know what this is.
01:00:43.880 Pound and Yokel says the left references the founders to defend the democracy constantly while ignoring founding documents such as Federalist to or the 1780 Immigration Act that totally condemned their pluralist pluralistic fantasy.
01:00:59.300 And yeah, that it is a very selective history.
01:01:01.880 It all kind of started around 1965, maybe 1945.
01:01:05.860 We never look back at these older documents.
01:01:08.420 We never look back at John Jay explaining how he wants us to be one people speaking one language, having one common history.
01:01:16.020 These are what our founders said.
01:01:17.700 But we just kind of jump to the end and drop this progressive understanding of what America should be rather than looking at what the people who founded it actually said explicitly.
01:01:27.700 Yeah, I mean, there's so much done on this.
01:01:29.660 And I really do think that there's there's definitely a book out there to be written, I think, on all of this.
01:01:35.980 You know, it's sort of like what is an American according to the founders of America and that that really dives into all of this that just gets rid of so much of this bad pop history.
01:01:47.240 I hate pop history so much, but there's really, really bad pop history about the founders.
01:01:52.420 I just got two more and then we'll get out of here.
01:01:54.800 We've got Cosmo says this labor is only cheap to the employer because it's because, of course, it's subsidized by middle and lower class Americans who get diminished institutions.
01:02:04.000 He also follows up and says the labor was cheap, but Jack lost his family home and community to actually enormous.
01:02:10.400 So it's actually enormously expensive.
01:02:12.540 The employer pocketed the difference as profit.
01:02:15.640 And this is really important, right?
01:02:16.960 We see a lot of these corporations pushing the open borders because they can privatize the profits, but they can make public the costs.
01:02:24.560 And that's really what he's talking about here.
01:02:26.120 Yeah, you get to rake in the money because you had cheap labor and maybe I pay a little less for a flat screen TV, but now my kids can't go to school and hear the language they grew up with spoken.
01:02:36.820 They can't go down to the corner store because it's too dangerous anymore.
01:02:39.860 We can't stay in the neighborhood.
01:02:41.160 We have to move away from our family home.
01:02:43.360 These are the real costs.
01:02:44.760 You can't put them on a spreadsheet.
01:02:46.380 I don't immediately see them in the GDP or the economic activity, but that's the real externalized costs, even though they got to privatize all the profit.
01:02:54.020 But I'll give you a great example.
01:02:57.120 So where we lived, what we had – and by the way, my town wasn't like some fancy whatever, but it was good.
01:03:04.260 It was just good.
01:03:05.580 And where we lived, right on the corner, so we had a corner store, laundromat, and a drugstore.
01:03:11.900 My dad used to work at that drugstore.
01:03:14.200 They had a malt shop in the 50s, 60s.
01:03:16.520 They used to do that.
01:03:17.440 My dad used to be the kid who would run up and down, hey, your prescription's ready, that kind of thing.
01:03:22.400 I remember even when I was a kid, because I had this tiny little taste of it.
01:03:25.960 This is the Northeast outside Philly.
01:03:27.780 And they had the comic book spindle where I could get my other – get a new Batman comic or a new Superman comic.
01:03:34.960 By the way, I saw the new movie. 0.91
01:03:35.800 It super sucked. 0.95
01:03:37.140 Just not woke, just bad, just really bad. 0.96
01:03:39.400 And that store now is like an African food mart, and if you go to the convenience store, it's run by Indian immigrants, and it has like casino games that are lining throughout it now where you can gamble inside, where I used to just bring a nickel and get some bubble gum or something.
01:04:04.360 Yeah, you really lose that feeling of community because everything only exists, again, to extract money.
01:04:11.500 There's no community built into it.
01:04:13.400 It's how many gambling games can I pack into the square footage?
01:04:17.680 Who cares about the community who used to gather here, make this part of their identity?
01:04:22.140 What if I can get a few more dollars out of them?
01:04:24.040 And that is, again, a cost you can't put on the spreadsheet, but one you will notice and your children will notice if you're paying attention.
01:04:32.260 All right, guys, we're going to wrap this up.
01:04:33.480 I want to thank everybody for watching.
01:04:35.240 Jack, thank you so much for coming on.
01:04:37.340 Everybody, again, should be checking out his stuff and picking up his book.
01:04:40.800 If it's your first time on this channel, you need to subscribe on YouTube, click the bell, notifications, all that stuff so you know when we go live.
01:04:47.500 And if you want to get these broadcasts as podcasts, you need to subscribe to The Oren McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.
01:04:53.220 Thank you, everybody, for watching, and as always, I will talk to you next time.