Jack Posobiec joins me on the show to talk about the growing trend of politicians referring to foreign countries as their homes, and why this is a problem. We also talk about what it means to be an American in a foreign country.
00:00:00.200Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
00:00:07.580You know, it started with Ilhan Omar constantly talking about how she could help out the Somali community and ultimately really she saw Somalia as her homeland.
00:00:17.100But she's spawned a whole new wave of American politicians who now seem more than okay with referring to foreign countries as the ones they actually see as their homes.
00:00:27.740You have guys like Zoran Mamdani in New York. He's only been here. He's only one generation born in the United States and yet he feels like he's ready to rearrange everything, introduce socialism and fix all the problems of the country he just ended up in.
00:00:42.860Joining me today to talk about this phenomenon is an author. He's a host. Jack Posobiec. Thank you so much for coming on, man.
00:00:48.440What's going on, Aron? Huge fan. I listen to the show all the time. I just saw the chat that I popped in. It says Poso needs to bring up Pizza Hut nationalism. If he doesn't, I'd be very disappointed.
00:01:00.880And it's actually a really good way to get into the conversation because Pizza Hut nationalism is a huge part of this, by the way, because we are going to talk about how diluting the national character leads to an erosion of civic society.
00:01:16.060Yeah, we're definitely going to get into what we might think of as different definitions for nationalism or what makes someone American.
00:01:25.460And this is actually where you kind of got in a little bit of trouble, I guess we could call this, or just the media decided.
00:01:30.860Oh, I wade right into this one. I was talking to some friends backstage at this Turning Point event last week down in Tampa.
00:01:43.040And let's just say it was my coterie of Twitter anons that I have going up.
00:01:48.440And I said, yeah, you know, should we mention Epstein? I said, definitely going to mention Epstein. You have to get into that.
00:01:54.260But I want to get into this broader question and push the envelope a little bit more on these guys walking around claiming that they can run for office when they're clearly just not American.
00:02:07.140And it's on the face of it, not American. So it goes viral. People are attacking me all over it because I said these guys aren't American.
00:02:16.140I know there's a piece of paper that they may have in many instances that says they're American, but they're not. They're not an American.
00:02:22.700And I get the email from Unheard and some reporter over there that says, you know, this litany of questions and regarding my statement.
00:02:32.300I just hit him back with the classic Sam Hyde of everyone knows what an American is.
00:02:38.820And that's so critical because this is what people want to go into, right?
00:02:43.320I need all the nuance. I need every little bit, you know, lay down the letter of the law.
00:02:48.060And that's why Sam Hyde's response was so great. And that's why yours, you know, mirroring that is also great.
00:02:52.600Guys, we know what we're talking about. Everyone knows what an American is until you decide to break this all down and try to get pedantic about it.
00:03:01.000But obviously, it can't just be filling out forms or a piece of paperwork.
00:03:06.060Every other nation around the world more or less understands that it is a people, right?
00:03:11.480Yes, it's a legal framework. It's a state. There's a government in charge of it.
00:03:15.960But there's also a culture. There's a tradition. There's a language. There's a heritage and a history.
00:03:21.500These things reach back. And most nations in some way or another allow people to kind of come in and weave into that fabric.
00:03:28.960Some are more open, some are less. But there's usually some process by which that can occur.
00:03:34.420But no one in Japan thinks that if you or I moved there in three years, we would just be Japanese.
00:03:41.020And by the way, we could tell every Japanese person how to run Japan.
00:03:43.620Well, the fact that you mentioned it is so funny. So I lived in China for two years.
00:03:48.280I speak Mandarin Chinese. I learn the language. I can read it. I can type it.
00:03:54.420I wouldn't say I can write it, but I can type it, you know.
00:03:56.980And, you know, I lived there for quite some time and have no problem being able to converse.
00:04:03.340I could have this conversation in Mandarin right now.
00:04:05.480But no one at any point of me going around in China would ever consider me Chinese.
00:04:13.440And in fact, there's a term that they use predominantly for whites of European descent.
00:04:20.520And they'll say Lao Wai. And I always used to bring this up and I would say, like, well, actually, Lao Wai doesn't just mean foreigner.
00:04:26.820It means white. And I would say, what do you mean?
00:04:28.700I'd say, well, because they never use that for if someone were black, if someone were of any other ethnicity, you would only use it for white people.
00:04:36.360So it clearly means white. So even then, in that instance, you know, the average Chinese person just on the street would see me and would just go, you know, Lao Wai.
00:04:48.520And they're very clearly using that nationalist kind of reference to identify me as a foreigner and an outsider.
00:04:58.660And guess what? That's the norm. That's the normal way that countries operate.
00:05:03.600That's the way that peoples operate. That's the way that history just is.
00:05:08.120And it doesn't matter. And this, which I'd love to get into at some point, is since, you know, post-1965 and really this sort of like the great counterculture movement or whatever you want to call it,
00:05:19.900this idea has somehow been like showered over our eyes that we're supposed to believe that people just can be whatever they want to be and label themselves whatever they want, even though reality is still reality.
00:05:32.200Well, I think a lot of this comes from the story of the Americas as a place where immigrants come to, right?
00:05:40.140This is ultimately the idea that everyone had to travel over here.
00:05:44.000Most of the European populace obviously is not native, those kind of things.
00:05:47.680And so this gives the idea that America is just these waves of different levels of immigration.
00:05:52.380But I've had it put to me this way, and I think this is exactly right.
00:05:55.760America isn't a nation of immigrants. It's a nation of settlers.
00:05:59.720I mean, if we're being honest, it's a nation of conquerors, right?
00:06:02.780It's a nation of people who cut a country out of the wilderness.
00:06:06.780And that's much different than people who show up hundreds of years after the country has been built to apply for Social Security and Medicaid, right?
00:06:16.560Well, of course. And, you know, even the people who were here prior to that, my co-author and I, Joshua Lysak, sometimes jokingly referred to what we call American Indians as Siberian Americans.
00:06:30.160If we're going to go with the hyphenation, well, yeah, those are Siberian Americans because they're originally from Siberia.
00:06:36.480So actually, everyone is from somewhere. That's just how the world works. That's how history works.
00:06:41.540How far back do you want to go? But the point being is an American, and I would even go so far as to say that the word American should only apply to someone who came post the founding of the nation of America,
00:06:56.580because, number one, that name in and of itself is a European name, right?
00:07:01.480It was an Italian, a mapmaker, a cartographer, and the nation of America with the cities and the civic society and everything that we know of it as today did not exist prior to those early English colonies in the 1600s.
00:07:17.840Now, the other way that this is often approached, and I hear this one on the right, there's a number of people, I think you've referred to them as the woke light,
00:07:28.340who are very concerned about the definition of American.
00:07:33.120And for them, the only proper definition is the propositional American, right?
00:07:38.340You have to assent to these propositions, and that's what makes us Americans.
00:07:43.480We're bound together by these ideas and this code, and don't get me wrong, as Americans, we have principles.
00:07:48.960We do have an idea that permeates who we are and how we want to conduct ourselves, but ultimately that idea comes from our history and our tradition, right?
00:07:59.500We have the English law tradition, the common law tradition, obviously all the cultural connections that come from that Anglo past, and Protestant Christianity.
00:08:08.280These are the things that I think early on really defined the United States.
00:08:12.600Now, obviously, we have added to that in time, and that's true of all nations, but the idea that anyone who walks in and says,
00:08:20.440yes, I believe in these things is an American, that doesn't seem to work because as we're seeing from people like Mamdani or Omar or this guy, Omar, is it Fatech?
00:08:31.060I'm not sure how to say it, out of Minneapolis.
00:08:33.540All of these people entered the country legally at some point, but ultimately have rejected the creed of the United States.
00:08:42.600They've rejected the proposition of the United States, but no one is deporting these people just for that.
00:08:48.100I don't see these guys on the right who go with the propositional nation calling for the deportation of all these people who have rejected the American creed.
00:08:55.300So how can you have a purely propositional nation when part of the proposition of the United States is, well, you get to speak your mind.
00:09:04.240You can't have both where someone has been ideological adherent, and also they can speak out against the ruling ideology if they wish, right?
00:09:12.060Right, and this is where all of these things kind of go into play with each other, which, by the way, the woke lights, they want you to believe that America's founding fathers were some kind of wishy-washy classic liberal universalists
00:09:27.000when you can just go look at some of the early laws they passed or the way that they conducted themselves state by state.
00:09:35.540And the idea then that they thought America would be this melting pot was ridiculous.
00:09:41.180Even Benjamin Franklin, I'm from Pennsylvania originally, and even Benjamin Franklin was saying back then, he said, we have too many Germans in Pennsylvania.
00:09:49.140We need to shut that down a little bit.
00:09:51.340I don't know if he's referring specifically to the Amish or the Mennonite communities that were coming into central Pennsylvania.
00:09:56.700But even then, you know, he would refer to the Germans as swarthy, you know, central Europeans.
00:10:03.900And so, you know, this idea that they didn't have these beliefs, it's preposterous.
00:10:08.220It's a historical, it doesn't actually reflect our history.
00:10:11.760It, in fact, reflects a fake history that they are attempting to foist upon the United States.
00:10:51.680Because the cultural heritage that is extended upon you that continues in a, you know, you can call it unbroken or you could call it in a complex tapestry of history and cultural history that extends from Britain of Shakespeare's time all the way till now.
00:11:11.720That's why you know who Romeo and Juliet are.
00:11:14.840When I was in China, they don't make references to Romeo and Juliet.
00:11:21.700They bring up Chinese, you know, generals, which are also woven into Chinese history.
00:11:27.880And that's their point of reference because that's their shared point of reference.
00:11:31.260So when you're living in that country, when you're living in that area, even though I myself, I am not Anglo-Saxon, I'm not Protestant, but guess what?
00:11:39.060I'm in this country and I'm in this cultural tradition in the Anglo-sphere because that's what the Anglo-sphere is, the English-speaking nations.
00:11:58.020And that's different from just being able to, like, go to Wikipedia and say, oh, I'm going to research all of the stuff that I'm supposed to know from being in this tradition and Photoshop it onto.
00:12:11.180And I think at this point it's gotten to the breaking point because we have now these ethnic enclaves within the United States.
00:12:17.560And you mentioned a few of them just in your opening, talking about Ilhan Omar's district or Rashida Tlaib's district.
00:12:23.760New York City is certainly becoming a sort of version of this where you're seeing, like, the ethnic enclaves vote against, or at least these portions of them vote against other members of ethnic enclaves.
00:12:35.080And the big difference here is there is no assimilation because post-1965, and you can see Robert Putnam has done so much work on this, that the assimilation hasn't taken place because we're importing so many people from so many radically different cultures again and again and again.
00:12:54.700And I think it really just puts the lie to the test that not anyone can just become an American.
00:13:01.900Yeah, and that's really critical because, of course, the story of America is the story of a number of different populations adding to that Anglo-Protestant core, right?
00:13:12.120And I love to go to the work of Samuel Huntington because I think both he's a very intelligent guy and he's also someone who was more of a center-left Harvard professor, right?
00:13:20.760This is not some bomb-throwing right-wing radical.
00:13:22.840But he made the same point that you're referencing with Putnam there, that ultimately these highly diverse communities, they tend to have lower social trust because they don't have any level of assimilation.
00:13:34.480And Huntington's point is if you ignore the core of what America is, which we have basically done since the Hart-Celler Act, and said, oh, well, anyone can be American from anywhere and it doesn't matter.
00:13:45.960When you do that, there's nothing for new immigrants to assimilate to.
00:13:50.020And so not everyone who comes to the United States is going to be, as you point out, Anglo or Protestant.
00:13:55.120But if you're coming to the United States, you are looking to adapt to that culture.
00:13:59.420You are looking to assimilate to that culture.
00:14:01.460When you understand that that is the majority culture and when you maintain a demographic majority of that culture, then it becomes very clear that the few people who come in need to adapt and change.
00:14:13.220Maybe they don't magically become Anglo or Protestant, but they make cultural changes.
00:14:17.640They make lifestyle changes that bring them closer in line with this.
00:14:22.080They don't sit in, as you pointed out, ethnic enclaves that defend their language from another country, their history, their heritage from another country.
00:14:31.440They don't frequently go back to another country and refer to it as their homeland.
00:14:36.160These are basic changes that must be made and not everybody can do it.
00:14:39.760It seems like, from what we can tell, those who were more likely to regularly interact with the Anglo tradition are the ones who are more able to adapt to the Anglo tradition, which means more Europeans have been able to adapt than others.
00:14:55.860There are a few European groups that have been difficult to assimilate.
00:14:59.180There have been some, for instance, Asian groups that are slightly easier to assimilate.
00:15:03.980But the general rule seems to be that the more contact your civilization had with an Anglo civilization, the more compatible you are with possible assimilation when you arrive in the United States.
00:15:15.060Yeah, and again, this is just history.
00:15:17.580So everything that we're saying right now isn't even a, you know, we're not making normative arguments.
00:15:23.040We're just making descriptive arguments.
00:15:25.640This is just the way things happened, the way things went down.
00:15:28.820And so when you look at things like the American founding or things like, you know, the history of Thanksgiving.
00:15:36.900This is why, by the way, Thanksgiving itself has become such a national flashpoint in these culture wars because there's this idea of an American history where Thanksgiving, you know, was Thanksgiving a, quote, unquote, settler holiday?
00:15:52.660And people say, why do you care so much about Thanksgiving?
00:15:54.240Because, no, it actually matters so much in terms of policy, in terms of our national vision, in terms of whether or not we're going to continue as this.
00:16:03.680So Thanksgiving, Christopher Columbus, all of these things that refer back to America's original founding and our actual history moving forward, then become under assault.
00:16:14.480Because you'll see these groups who particularly, you know, tend to be immigrants who had nothing to do with either, you know, American Indians or any of these other, you know, any of these other groups that were around at the time.
00:16:28.740Or, you know, you know, like, why are they so against the South and the Confederates or something?
00:16:39.020And you're not African-American or related anyway.
00:16:41.900And it's because it's part of this 1619 version of America where they can use to attack the social fabric and the cultural fabric of what they view as the current status quo in America.
00:16:56.640Tear that down and then replace it with a new revolutionary core.
00:17:00.280That's why they want to replace Christopher Columbus Day with, you know, Indigenous People's Day.
00:17:05.240That's why they want to teach you, you know, teach your kids that Thanksgiving was, you know, it was not done by, you know, these nice colonists.
00:17:13.380It was actually this horrible, tragic genocide of the Indians and bring that up over and over and over.
00:17:26.800Let me ask you this, because I think a large part of this is also technology.
00:17:31.560You know, we had large waves of immigration previously.
00:17:35.240The Irish and Italians were often treated as not welcome because they had a foreign religion at that time.
00:17:42.640They were understood as a different culture.
00:17:44.580But over time, they were able to weave their way into the American fabric.
00:17:49.060But a big reason why was that there was no ability to instantly send money back to the homeland, visit the homeland again, make a phone call back to grandma in Italy.
00:17:59.940You couldn't, you know, you couldn't send an email.
00:18:03.120You couldn't continue to listen to all the music and consume all the media from your home country.
00:18:08.360Yes, there were often ethnic enclaves.
00:18:09.940People did all move into Irish neighborhoods or Italian neighborhoods, but those neighborhoods were kind of cut off from the countries they came from, right?
00:18:19.760Now, anyone can immediately call back to Somalia, call back to Mexico, send money to their family.
00:18:26.580They can stay in touch constantly, and they can live inside their ethnic enclave.
00:18:30.460So really, we even have this phenomenon where a large number of people will get asylum from countries like Haiti or Somalia, and then we'll go back on vacation, which is just absolute madness.
00:18:40.560So I think there has been a big shift in the ability of these ethnic enclaves to sustain themselves, not just internally, but they can continue to network and create this greater Somalia or greater Mexico or all these other country effect where they can project their influence into the countries they're in rather than assimilating to the ones they've moved to.
00:18:59.160Yeah, you can actually hear Omar Fatah mention this in one of those clips that someone pulls up from him where he's talking about how his enclave of Somalia is an extension of greater Somalia, so his diaspora.
00:19:14.880And what we've really done, and technology does enable this, is create, you know, turn America from a nation and devolved it into a nation of mini nations.
00:19:26.340So there are now mini nations within the United States, within the greater nation, and people can all sense this.
00:19:33.140People can certainly sense this, and you see this reflected in, and I keep bringing this up, the breakdown of civic society since the 1960s.
00:19:40.640Go read Bowling Alone from Putnam that really walks into this, and just the complete lack of participation to how people want to hunker down.
00:19:48.440This, by the way, has a massive depressive effect on birth rates because people are less certain, people feel less secure.
00:19:56.080And when you're surrounded by these mini nations, and you're not a member of them, right, you want to find your nation.
00:20:05.120And the sort of, like, fake sitcom Hollywood Netflix America where it's like, oh, everyone's super diverse, and there's all these offices where everyone's, like, really cool and working together.
00:20:25.340And so when people do this through technology, not only are they able to continue in these diasporas, but even you're seeing it with Omar Fattah, who he was born in the United States, and yes, on paper.
00:20:39.180So he's born in the U.S., and he's lived in the U.S. his whole life.
00:20:42.800He may have traveled back and forth, I don't know, but he refers to it as our home because in his world within that community, that is the homeland.
00:20:52.560They do have a direct tie to it, and you're talking beyond just text messages.
00:20:56.840I mean, I remember what I was talking about when I lived in China.
00:20:59.480You know, back then I had to use the calling cards to be able to get back home, and you had to check, you know, when was the right time, and someone's by the phone.
00:21:06.400Now, you could be on FaceTime all day long just having a video call with someone in Somalia.
00:21:13.660I know they are because I see my Uber drivers doing it all the time in Washington, D.C., and having these just, you know, eight-hour conversations that just go nowhere.
00:21:22.820And so there's these massive extensions of that sort of communal living that extend to the United States mentally as well as, you know, as well as physically back home.
00:21:35.540And so, and the more you import, the more you're just importing and growing that mini-nation, which never actually, you know, breaks.
00:21:43.920And so the bubble never melts into the rest of the United States.
00:21:47.180You're just extending the size of the mini-nation.
00:21:50.420Now, you know, people used to refer, you would hear this on the right call, they would talk about, like, no-go zones and Sharia zones and things like that.
00:21:56.780But I don't even think it's as hyperbolic as that.
00:21:59.040I think just what it really is is you're importing a group of people who have formed, who have their own nation and will continue to have their own nation for all the reasons that we've outlined here.
00:22:10.420And they view their allegiance towards that than they do certainly to anything here in the United States.
00:22:16.980Yeah, and I do have people saying they're having a hard time hearing you.
00:22:19.740So if you have the opportunity to turn up your game a little bit, that'd be awesome.
00:23:56.200He is willing to work with pretty much anyone in New York who is interested in dismantling the United States as we know it.
00:24:03.000He's a Muslim who's pushing trans ideology and these kind of things.
00:24:06.720And so it really becomes clear that ultimately even these legal immigrants often are only interested in what they can do to dismantle the U.S.
00:24:14.560or what they can do to glean advantages for their people as they see it out of the U.S., not in any way being a part of the American experience.
00:24:59.720And so this this is something that I want to get into in the sense that when people are looking at these, when people are looking at these things, right, it's you have a tendency and a lot of people have a tendency to get very statistical and abstract with it.
00:25:21.060So I lived through this in my lifetime.
00:25:24.680My town in in Narstown, Pennsylvania, right outside of Philadelphia was was one of these towns where I grew up and I had a very small taste of what I'm talking about.
00:25:35.680That's why this issue is so important to me and so close to my home, like literally that I lived in the house that my father grew up in, which was a house purchased by his father in a town where my family had lived for 100 years.
00:25:51.560My house was 80 years old by the time that we or that I was born.
00:25:57.220And and by the way, this was a it was like a like a row home in Narstown.
00:26:01.860It was meant for workers, you know, but but it was very nice.
00:26:05.100It was so much nicer than the house that, you know, even the the homes you get now, the woodworking, stained glass windows, you know, but that was that was standard at turn of the century.
00:26:13.280And so the the the difference, though, is that starting in the late 90s, Section 8 started really coming in and housing and urban development came in and started putting up all these homes and all these blocks for that type of housing.
00:26:33.000And so crime really started flooding in in our country or in our town.
00:26:38.780And then all of a sudden in 2002, our town, we didn't have a name for it back then, but it became a sanctuary city.
00:26:49.800They started accepting Mexican consular, you know, identification for people to rent a home or buy a home and access public services.
00:26:58.460And so it became one of the areas that was totally flooded by Mexican illegal immigration.
00:27:06.620And in a weird way, we're like the Mexican consulate was well aware of what was going on and totally supported it.
00:27:12.980And the town council thought it was great, too, because they said, hey, this is going to be more people that are coming into our town.
00:27:18.500Well, my family got out because crime absolutely skyrocketed.
00:27:23.060And this was a town, you know, the kids who I grew up with were the kids that my parents had grown up with, like that my father had been friends with.
00:27:33.220And they still lived in the same homes as their parents because that's just how it was.
00:27:37.960You know, Irish, Italian, Polish living in this area and completely flooded by crime,
00:27:44.000completely flooded by people who had no interest in making the town any better, but just looking at it as an economic, you know, an economic suction zone where they could just extract whatever resources they could from the town and then move on.
00:28:07.080It's actually funny enough, just a couple of days ago, I got some videos because there was some some liberal activist group was trying to help out and there was an ice raid in the town.
00:28:17.420So the ice raid finally 20 years in the making that I've been waiting for this.
00:28:21.440We've seen ice raids going on in my hometown because I talk about this all the time and people are like, OK, so it's probably just trying to.
00:29:19.940And then you look at exactly the problems you're pointing out, that we are actively transforming neighborhoods.
00:29:25.960All of the research, like you said, with Putnam shows that when you increase diversity in the neighborhood, people are less likely to trust each other.
00:29:33.540They're less likely to go out and spend time talking to each other.
00:29:36.100And very importantly, they're less likely to have children because they're unsure about the future.
00:30:18.580It's the ability to withdraw value from a neighborhood that you don't value because you didn't build it.
00:30:25.500And then, like you said, they can just move on.
00:30:27.200But for those of us who have generations of family in the same area or in this country, ultimately, we're the ones losing out.
00:30:35.080But most American politicians, they don't care because as long as the GDP goes up inside their district, they can run around saying, look, I did something amazing.
00:30:45.220They don't have to notice that no one in their district is able to buy a home or have children anymore.
00:30:51.160Yeah, you get these GDP firsters who, you know, just don't quite actually look at the root causes of any of this.
00:30:57.200And so that's where, you know, I can appreciate where Elon's coming from when he says we need to get our birth rates up.
00:31:02.620And, you know, it's just that he doesn't seem to be looking at the broader picture of why the average person isn't having more kids.
00:31:10.960And it is, broadly speaking, economic.
00:31:15.640We talk about it on Human Events Daily that it, you know, and to add perhaps something to Andrew Breitbart's, you know, famous, famous adage about politics being downstream of culture.
00:31:26.520I would, I would simply point out that culture is downstream of economics.
00:31:33.520And what I mean by that is people say, oh, well, your money is most important.
00:31:38.460What I'm saying is when you have a culture that is allowed to be able to breathe freely, that is allowed to be able to survive, that is allowed to be able to flourish, then that will posit good culture beyond that.
00:31:52.880When a people are able to have that, that good commerce, that natural commerce.
00:31:56.340But when you have this mass, these massive artificial waves coming in of people that don't share our values, that people have no heritage whatsoever in common with the people who live here now and are brought in through this massive series of government programs and NGOs and this huge archipelago of secret systems to be able to bring them in.
00:32:18.000And then obviously you are going to dilute all of these things and it's being done in the name of economics.
00:32:26.020So you have to get the economics right for the people before you can have a better culture, before you can have a healthy culture or before you can have healthy politics.
00:32:57.100This idea of limited government, this idea of self-government, these ideas that are often tied to the founding, you know, ordered liberty, these things came from a particular culture, a particular tradition, particular way of life.
00:33:11.000Stephen Miller was just on with some talking head.
00:33:15.740And he said something that shocked them, but it should be fairly obvious.
00:33:19.620He said, look, the problem with Haiti is that there are Haitians who live there and run it the way that they run it.
00:33:26.240The problem with Somalia is that Somalians run Somalia the way that they do.
00:33:30.860You can't just take all the people who make up those countries that are not doing well, drop them in a concentrated ball in some Midwestern, you know, city in the United States and expect that place to not be much like the places they left.
00:33:45.800Yes, one, two, maybe three of these people from a country that can assimilate and be part of a community.
00:33:52.900Maybe over time, many generations, they might move towards more of the American way of life, but there is zero chance that you just move Somalia or Haiti to the United States.
00:34:02.580And that fixes the problem because the problem is tied to the way of being of the people who were in that country in the first place.
00:34:09.880Yeah, and we spent trillions of dollars trying to do this during the War on Terror and the failed nation building project, thinking that we could export the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. system to places like Iraq and Afghanistan that are totally unprepared for it and totally uninterested in it.
00:34:27.480You're not going to have Jeffersonian, you know, democracy just spring forth in the Middle East, which has no background in it whatsoever.
00:34:36.280This is a tribal culture. This is a culture that is very clannish.
00:34:41.860The cousin marriages and Steve Saylor's talked about this, how it just doesn't work and there's so much interconnectivity there.
00:34:48.380And so the idea that you can import a group of people from one of those areas here and change it.
00:34:56.120Look, here's what I said in my speech. If you took the entire population of the United States and swapped it, right, you think of the mental experiment, swapped it with the people of Afghanistan.
00:35:05.760So all the all the Americans are now living in Afghanistan. All the Afghanis are now living here.
00:35:11.600Guess what? You're not going to magically just change the system.
00:35:17.200No, we America, we'd make Afghanistan look more like America and we would make America look more like Afghanistan.
00:35:25.160That's exactly what would happen, because the system is not the words on the piece of paper.
00:35:30.460The American system is the American people.
00:35:33.080Absolutely. And before we let time get away from us, because I want to make sure we hit this.
00:35:38.780It's so important, you know, dovetailing onto all of this.
00:35:41.920Obviously, President Trump finally gets the ICE funding he's been fighting for.
00:35:46.340We know that border crossings are already way down.
00:35:49.000I think that's the greatest accomplishment of the Trump administration so far, taking them so, so low compared to what especially Biden was doing.
00:35:57.240It's just insane. But everybody is waiting for the deportations, right?
00:36:00.640They've started. We're getting the worst people out. But people know ultimately we're going to need larger scale deportations.
00:36:06.180So they back this ICE funding. And the minute it passes, the minute it passes, 10 Republicans turn around and immediately stab every GOP voter in the back.
00:36:17.220We have Maria Salazar of Florida here. And she is already pushing this dignity program, which is just rebranded amnesty.
00:36:26.920And it's so clearly rebranded amnesty. You know, the bill is so sloppy.
00:36:32.780It doesn't even let you look at local and federal databases to see if one of the people applying for this program is a gang member like that's that's how ridiculous this bill is.
00:36:44.480But we're already seeing this. Why is the GOP or why are portions of the GOP so dead set on betraying the MAGA voters right after they finally get the enforcement budget that is necessary to execute the plan that Donald Trump promised?
00:36:58.920Look, this is something that MAGA voters have to be so strong on, by the way, then they're going to play on your sensibilities.
00:37:07.020They're going to play on your Christian sensibilities. They're going to say, oh, well, you know, they just want to work here.
00:37:12.920They just want to be helpful. First of all, Molly Tibbetts, by the way, was murdered by a farm worker in Iowa about one hour away from where the Iowa fairgrounds is.
00:37:23.180So, no, these people are not supposed to be here in the first place. Number one. Number two, they're creating these these mini nations within our nation.
00:37:29.760And number three, they're here for economic extraction. They are not here to make America better.
00:37:34.700But also the reason that the GOP and many factors of the GOP are for this is because you have so much of the Chamber of Commerce and these groups that want the cheap labor here that obviously know about the illegal labor, that obviously know what's going on because they're all in on it.
00:37:52.840And they want to continue that gravy train coming in. The Democrats, of course, want it for the votes and and also, by the way, the dilution of the national census for their congressional districts.
00:38:04.680And so you can you can talk about the morality of this all day long.
00:38:08.280But when it really comes down to it, the way to fight back is you have to push against any of these ideas of a soft amnesty or a dignity, man.
00:38:17.860That is so like Orwellian. It's a dignity. What about the dignity of the American people?
00:38:23.220What about justice for people? And I said to somebody on on on Twitter the other day when they said, well, I'm a practicing Catholic and how can I support deportations?
00:38:31.080I said, OK, no, I understand that. But, you know, what about the justice for people who had to flee their homes in the face of this this mass of people completely overtaking your town and collapsing all of those systems?
00:38:45.760Where's justice for that? Where's justice for the millions upon millions of Americans who had to uproot and leave cities, towns and villages or wherever where they were living in the face of all this or people who lost jobs because of this?
00:39:00.520By the way, economically speaking, this is also one of the huge issues with automation, because when you have this massive cheap labor force, it disincentivizes automation.
00:39:11.880So guess what? You know, you're not even going to need a low level labor force is one of those ridiculous arguments that they make over and over again.
00:39:19.840You're not even going to need this if you push for automation. But why would they want to do why would they why would these businesses want to put in the capital costs for buying one of these, you know, auto pickers or whatever it is for for, you know, cotton, tomatoes, apples, you know, mention it because they have this cheap labor force.
00:39:37.140So, again, you know, it's something you're not going to need. And then, oh, by the way, when automation does hit, what are we going to do with this huge population that you've brought in?
00:39:46.420And that's what leads to these revolutionary looter forces that you're talking about and Azorah Mandami, because you're creating the economic pressures and tensions that lead to a Marxist revolution.
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00:40:15.240That's exactly correct. And this is so obvious that it's insane that this is not just a core argument that is brought up over and over again. Eventually, these jobs will get automated out of existence.
00:40:26.940That's the goal of everyone right now who's working in these fields anyway. So we're bringing in millions and millions of usually military aged men, single.
00:40:38.860They're going to they came here because they just saw the economic zone. They don't care about the United States. They're completely detached from the culture.
00:40:45.780They're entirely invested in some kind of ethnic enclave and have no interest in the wider United States.
00:40:51.960And then while they're sitting around in the U.S., you're going to tell me that you're going to cut off basically all of their opportunities to be employed.
00:40:59.700You're going to replace everything that they came here for. What is going to happen?
00:41:04.240Obviously, like you said, you're going to end up with an insurgent force. That's exactly what happens.
00:41:08.960Maybe if you're lucky, just politically, a bunch of guys, you know, engaging in some kind of Marxist activism.
00:41:15.140But more likely, it will spread to violent politics. We've already seen assaults on ICE agents.
00:41:21.140We've already seen the attempted killing of ICE agents. It's only going to get worse.
00:41:25.580These people are only going to get more violent as they recognize this as an existential threat to the type of life that they wanted to cultivate inside the United States.
00:41:33.740Imagine piling on the fact that they can't even get the jobs.
00:41:36.820They can't even hold the jobs that they thought that they were going to hold.
00:41:39.240They're not going to make any of the money. They're not going to be having any of this success.
00:41:42.540Their desperation will skyrocket, and you will naturally see waves and waves of possible immigrant terrorism inside the United States.
00:41:51.300I don't think it's a stretch at all to expect exactly that outcome.
00:41:55.120By the way, when the L.A. anti-ICE riots were taking place, if people remember, one of the ubiquitous images that we saw throughout all of that was the burning of Waymos.
00:42:05.580And I remember, so Waymos are these driverless taxis.
00:42:08.680They have them in Phoenix. They've introduced them in L.A., San Francisco.
00:42:12.300I hear that we're getting them here in D.C. pretty soon. I hate them so much.
00:42:15.940I refuse to ride in one, but I saw they were burning the Waymos, and I said, oh, look, they're going after the competition.
00:42:23.360Well, Jack, let me ask you this as we're wrapping up here, and I don't know if I know you're busy.
00:42:28.860I don't know if you have time to take some questions from the audience or not, but before we let's do some.
00:42:33.740Okay, great. Okay. Well, before we go to the questions of the people, then, let me ask you this final question.
00:42:38.860Here is my basic premise. This should be the counter-argument, the counter-offer to those pushing the amnesty deal, right?
00:42:45.900Ultimately, I think in the United States, we need at minimum a 15-year, maybe longer, but at minimum a 15-year legal immigration moratorium.
00:42:55.900Some carve-outs for people getting married, those kind of things.
00:42:59.060You know, if you find Einstein somewhere, okay, you can bring him in.
00:43:02.080But in general, we need a moratorium on the vast amount of immigration we have coming into the United States, and when we finally do coalesce back as a nation, find our community, find our identity, at that point, we need an immigration system that is multi-generational.
00:43:19.080You might, if you prove to be culturally compatible and you are allowed the honor of entering the United States as a temporary visitor or worker, these kind of things, you have to be here multiple generations before your descendants can begin involving themselves in the voting process.
00:43:37.360No more, hey, I come here, I have a kid here, and that kid immediately can start voting stuff for my community apart from the United States.
00:43:43.620We need a multi-generational way to weave people into the fabric of the U.S., and only after we've had the kind of moratorium that will allow us to reestablish our national identity.
00:43:55.020No, I think that all sounds like stuff I agree with.
00:43:58.120I mean, this idea that anyone can – by the way, I even know for a fact that there are people now, when you go to take the test, even if you don't speak English, they teach you, like, the actual questions and then what your responses should be.
00:44:13.440But it's like a rote memorization kind of thing.
00:44:16.240So rather than learning the language, because you're supposed to, you know, you have to do the test in English.
00:44:33.820The whole system needs an absolute revamp.
00:44:35.840And we need to get back to – you know, I'd love to get back to the pre-1965 immigration system whereby you do have area caps where we look at, okay, what do we actually need as a country, right?
00:45:16.080And it is okay, as you're alluding to pre-Heart Seller, it is okay to have a policy of preferring people into your country who will be compatible with your country.
00:45:31.960It is okay to prefer people, as you say, who are going to benefit your country and will be compatible, will be able to adopt the language, will be able to adopt the lifestyle, will fit into the United States.
00:45:46.940It's okay to say that we are explicitly choosing people because they benefit this country, not because this country might benefit their checkbook at some point.
00:45:55.080I think that's a very clear thing that we need to be doing.
00:45:57.980Well, before we go to the questions of the people, Jack, I think most people probably know what you're doing, but I know you've got the book out there, the show.
00:46:04.160Can you let people know where to find your great work?
00:46:37.860Communism is a tactic of people who are resentful and angry and want to destroy whatever system they infect next out of this petty resentment, envy, jealousy, and rage.
00:46:50.380This is why they do the things that they do.
00:46:53.420And so we walk through a series of case studies of, you know, throughout history, and then we come up with ways to disrupt and destroy them, mostly through mocking, identifying, calling out what they're doing.
00:47:08.520My favorite review of it, by the way, was we went so hard in the paint on this thing that the Communist Party of the USA actually wrote a huge takedown of the book trying to attack it.
00:47:18.760And I said, boy, you know, you know you've done something right when the actual communists have to respond to you.
00:47:31.020And by the way, the speech that I gave at Turning Point last week that, you know, kind of generated this discussion, we're going to be posting that this.
00:47:39.060We haven't even posted it because this week's been so busy.
00:47:43.280And so we're going to be posting that speech in full this weekend, Human Events Daily, wherever you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, et cetera.
00:48:13.280Bram Zwingel says, I love when people whose family got here in the past 50 years call me a fascist because I think I have more of a claim because my family came here on the Mayflower.
00:48:26.640Again, there are, of course, terrible people whose families have been here for a long time.
00:48:32.120But ultimately, the nation is its people.
00:48:34.560And you have to recognize that perhaps if you get the gracious invitation to become part of America, you can weave yourself into the fabric of it.
00:48:44.340But the idea that someone who got here five minutes ago and is going to lecture you on whether or not capitalism is a great evil and has to be overthrown, I think it's reasonable to do what Jack did and say, well, maybe that guy's not quite as American as the guy who's been here since the Mayflower.
00:48:58.900I mean, look, you know, I've always felt very blessed to be in the United States.
00:49:07.600America is the greatest country on planet Earth.
00:49:10.000You know, I teach my kids to be patriotic as much as possible.
00:49:13.120And that's something where, you know, you go out and you just you just look at it like at a baseball game or a football game or something where we still do the national anthem.
00:49:20.800And that's that's one of the last actual civic rituals that we still have.
00:49:25.120And you look and just in in my lifetime, in our lifetime, you've seen more and more people don't even stand up anymore and they're not teaching their kids to stand up.
00:49:34.040And I would be I would I would not be a pundit or whatever I'm supposed to be, you know, worth my salt if I didn't point out that that it clearly seems to have an ethnic, you know, an ethnic character to that in terms of who stands up for it and who doesn't.
00:49:49.800Yeah, absolutely. Again, people always say, well, I know an immigrant who is the most American person I know knows more about America.
00:49:57.660Everyone else is proud to be American. And by the way, God bless those people. Right.
00:50:01.240I'm more than happy. Right. But but but let's not pretend that that is always the reflection that that that's a one to one that that is, you know, that exceptional individual therefore reflects all of illegal and legal immigration.
00:50:14.900These are not necessarily the same thing, even though, you know, you may know a fantastic immigrant who truly does love the United States and God bless them for it.
00:50:23.400Well, and that's the problem. Right. Because you you may you do have those those situations.
00:50:27.480But of course, that is completely overshadowed by the you know, the the vast bulk of the problems.
00:50:33.660That's also what they call it, the Naxalt fallacy.
00:50:35.480You need to be able to judge groups, you know, at scale.
00:50:40.180You can't you can't just look at at one individual and say they represent everything about this group.
00:50:44.980I want to project on great one one five or test, by the way.
00:50:48.960Robert Winesfield says 1950s, you are what you are.
00:50:54.3801990s, you can be whatever you want to be.
00:50:56.9402020s, you are whatever you want to be.
00:50:59.420Or more importantly, I think in this place, in case, Robert, you can be what they want you to be.
00:51:03.740Right. Like this is this is ultimately you can be what you want to be, where you want to be.
00:51:07.900Or, you know, the left can shape you into the type of soldier that they want you to be once you get here.
00:51:12.880I think that's a big part of what a number of immigration fifth columns have become, unfortunately, in major American cities.
00:51:20.780Yeah, we've gone from choose your own adventure to your adventure is chosen for you.
00:51:25.100Right. And your adventure is you need to destroy the United States and everything that's been built here.
00:51:30.360Yeah. Robert Winesfield also says, just hear me out, Sam Hyde, for Supreme Court justice.
00:51:36.280Well, I mean, you know, Trump might get a shot at one more.
00:52:03.500If you want to send something my way, you want to email or shoot me something on Twitter, perhaps I can take a look.
00:52:09.760But, Jack, we didn't get to talk about this.
00:52:11.380And obviously, we're not going to have a ton of time to dive into it.
00:52:14.140But, you know, the Epstein list obviously has become a flashpoint right now.
00:52:18.560A lot of people are saying this could be a serious blow to the MAGA coalition.
00:52:23.660I think ultimately a lot of people will hearten to see Trump talking about releasing grand jury testimony, depositions, these kind of things.
00:52:30.960But ultimately, do you think this is an issue that can be resolved between the base and the administration?
00:52:36.380Or is this an Internet thing that's just being overblown?
00:52:55.180But, you know, I wouldn't wouldn't be opposed to it.
00:52:56.780But the the well, as far as Epstein goes, you know, I think it's become a flashpoint in the sense that, by the way, like people say it's an online thing.
00:53:06.120And I'm like, Shane Gillis is joking about it on ESPN.
00:53:11.360And the entire crowd is kind of important.
00:53:24.460But what's amazing, though, is you saw President Trump come out last night and say that he does want to push for disclosure on this.
00:53:32.020And, you know, apparently one of the things driving this was this Wall Street Journal story that had been kind of been it was I guess it was cooking in the background and not everybody realized it.
00:53:40.220And that's was was leading towards some of the tension.
00:53:42.300But it just really just fell apart when they when they put it out.
00:53:46.960It was just so silly and I had the opposite, I think, intended effect of trying to make Trump look like he was connected to Epstein.
00:53:55.880I think it just showed people how how tenuous and ridiculous this connection was other than just, you know, someone that he knew fleetingly from being in the Palm Beach scene, which has already been litigated and has been in the public for years.
00:54:08.620And when it comes down to it, I mean, you know, Trump has been investigated again and again and again when it comes to this stuff.
00:54:13.720But I do think on the Epstein files in general, the reason why it matters to people is because it's become an inflection point of, you know, sort of this this idea of shadowy elites who are operating for their own benefit, some possibly for these these deviant ideals and deviant perversions rather than for the benefit of the people.
00:54:37.880And that really that really that really strikes to the heart of what the MAGA movement has always been about.
00:54:44.200And that and Donald Trump as a figure, you know, he's been the man who came down from behind that curtain, came down the golden escalator and said, I'm going to tell you the truth about what goes on in those shadowy rooms because I was in there.
00:54:57.740Yeah, that's really important, of course.
00:55:00.000Like so many, I also put deportations and border security as my number one issue.
00:55:05.200I want that to be what the administration does.
00:55:08.360And I understand why ultimately they don't want to make their entire presidency about the Epstein files and all these things.
00:55:13.800But there is a core value, as you just said, about ultimately understanding that the MAGA base wanted Donald Trump to unspool the Washington elite.
00:55:23.760It wasn't just about one issue or one ideological thing.
00:55:27.380Ultimately, they knew the swamp was corrupt.
00:56:40.080Do we have more claim to America than a good slash based immigrant?
00:56:45.760So I went deep into this with Doug Wilson, actually.
00:56:50.260So if people are interested in looking at longer dives, we're obviously not going to be able to spend two hours on it like we did there.
00:56:55.580So if you want a deeper look into that.
00:56:58.200But Cliff notes this one really quickly.
00:57:00.980Basically, Doug's assertion was that there was an ethnogenesis in the United States and that the post 1965 immigration waves more or less broke any part of that coming together.
00:57:12.720I think it's a little more complicated.
00:57:14.560I think you have to look at civil war and a number of other things that set back the American ethnos as a solid identity.
00:57:27.840And that's why I support an immigration moratorium and a focus on an Anglo-Protestant identity.
00:57:34.340Again, not that everyone will convert to Protestantism or will magically turn Anglo.
00:57:39.360But this idea that this, as Samuel Huntington put it, is kind of the guiding star for assimilation and the core of our culture.
00:57:46.980If we recognize that, we have a better chance at forging an ethnos, creating an ethnos, having that ethnogenesis than if we just continue along our current path.
00:57:56.160Yeah, no, I mean, my response is that, you know, I think we're that's basically what we've been talking about, you know, on on on, you know, podcast writ writ large.
00:58:08.100But also that, you know, there's there's a lot of a lot of work out there that we're like not supposed to read.
00:58:15.020I'll be on seed is a is a great example of this as well.
00:58:17.820Talking about the different founding stocks of America as it came to be.
00:59:22.580They run away from high taxes and they come down and they want to do exactly what immigrants do.
00:59:27.760They want to immediately start voting for the policies that turn New York into New York or California to California.
00:59:33.240So, yeah, this is this is even a smaller problem just when you're in the same nation with the same people speaking the same language.
00:59:39.460Of course, it's going to be even more of a problem when you start bringing people from vastly different nations and cultures.
00:59:47.280Yeah. And that's that's a great example of why we should take things like mass migration very, very seriously, because even within, you know, within one country, you can have these massive differences.
00:59:58.700Also, America, of course, even even prior to 1965 was not entirely homogenous.
01:00:05.540That's always been part of the American character.
01:00:08.040And so these are things that actually should be taken very seriously.
01:00:10.780And we shouldn't be told, oh, you shut up.
01:00:12.580You're not allowed to talk about that because that's a you know, that's a no, no issue.
01:00:16.040It's like, no, we're not we're not doing that anymore because we can all see the after effects of it and we can see how bad they've been.
01:00:21.880Yeah, the hour is late. We don't have time to sit around and pretend like this isn't an issue.
01:00:27.200Mark says, I have this the Sam Hyde approach.
01:00:30.100We all know what an American is and what it isn't just a matter of who wins out.
01:00:34.600Yeah. Again, I think that sometimes delving into the nuance really just creates an issue when you can just cut through and say, yeah, we we actually already know what this is.
01:00:43.880Pound and Yokel says the left references the founders to defend the democracy constantly while ignoring founding documents such as Federalist to or the 1780 Immigration Act that totally condemned their pluralist pluralistic fantasy.
01:00:59.300And yeah, that it is a very selective history.
01:01:01.880It all kind of started around 1965, maybe 1945.
01:01:05.860We never look back at these older documents.
01:01:08.420We never look back at John Jay explaining how he wants us to be one people speaking one language, having one common history.
01:01:17.700But we just kind of jump to the end and drop this progressive understanding of what America should be rather than looking at what the people who founded it actually said explicitly.
01:01:27.700Yeah, I mean, there's so much done on this.
01:01:29.660And I really do think that there's there's definitely a book out there to be written, I think, on all of this.
01:01:35.980You know, it's sort of like what is an American according to the founders of America and that that really dives into all of this that just gets rid of so much of this bad pop history.
01:01:47.240I hate pop history so much, but there's really, really bad pop history about the founders.
01:01:52.420I just got two more and then we'll get out of here.
01:01:54.800We've got Cosmo says this labor is only cheap to the employer because it's because, of course, it's subsidized by middle and lower class Americans who get diminished institutions.
01:02:04.000He also follows up and says the labor was cheap, but Jack lost his family home and community to actually enormous.
01:02:16.960We see a lot of these corporations pushing the open borders because they can privatize the profits, but they can make public the costs.
01:02:24.560And that's really what he's talking about here.
01:02:26.120Yeah, you get to rake in the money because you had cheap labor and maybe I pay a little less for a flat screen TV, but now my kids can't go to school and hear the language they grew up with spoken.
01:02:36.820They can't go down to the corner store because it's too dangerous anymore.
01:02:46.380I don't immediately see them in the GDP or the economic activity, but that's the real externalized costs, even though they got to privatize all the profit.
01:03:37.140Just not woke, just bad, just really bad.
01:03:39.400And that store now is like an African food mart, and if you go to the convenience store, it's run by Indian immigrants, and it has like casino games that are lining throughout it now where you can gamble inside, where I used to just bring a nickel and get some bubble gum or something.
01:04:04.360Yeah, you really lose that feeling of community because everything only exists, again, to extract money.
01:04:13.400It's how many gambling games can I pack into the square footage?
01:04:17.680Who cares about the community who used to gather here, make this part of their identity?
01:04:22.140What if I can get a few more dollars out of them?
01:04:24.040And that is, again, a cost you can't put on the spreadsheet, but one you will notice and your children will notice if you're paying attention.
01:04:32.260All right, guys, we're going to wrap this up.
01:04:33.480I want to thank everybody for watching.
01:04:35.240Jack, thank you so much for coming on.
01:04:37.340Everybody, again, should be checking out his stuff and picking up his book.
01:04:40.800If it's your first time on this channel, you need to subscribe on YouTube, click the bell, notifications, all that stuff so you know when we go live.
01:04:47.500And if you want to get these broadcasts as podcasts, you need to subscribe to The Oren McIntyre Show on your favorite podcast platform.
01:04:53.220Thank you, everybody, for watching, and as always, I will talk to you next time.