The Auron MacIntyre Show - White Men Are Quiet Quitting ｜ Guest： Jeremy Carl ｜ 2⧸21⧸24

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.680 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.160 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.140 So I think it's hard for a lot of people not to notice that there's a serious problem with the American workforce.

00:00:43.100 That there's a serious problem about the way that we go around hiring people into our most important institutions.

00:00:50.180 The way we admit people to college.

00:00:51.860 The way that we look at those that are prospective hires in our corporations.

00:00:55.820 And one of the big problems is obviously the DEI regime.

00:00:59.080 We are no longer picking the best candidates.

00:01:01.640 We are picking people based on their immutable attributes.

00:01:05.080 And this is causing a serious problem when it comes to investment, especially among white men in our working population. 0.62

00:01:12.560 And so I wanted to invite Jeremy Carl.

00:01:14.640 He's got a new book that's going to be coming out soon.

00:01:17.860 He's a senior fellow over at the Claremont Institute.

00:01:21.080 He just wrote a great piece about why white men are quiet quitting.

00:01:25.920 Jeremy, thanks for joining me, man.

00:01:26.960 It's a pleasure to be honored.

00:01:29.800 Absolutely.

00:01:30.480 Like I said, guys, we want to get into why this is such a problem.

00:01:33.700 Why this is something that is impacting every aspect of our society.

00:01:37.980 The competency crisis, the ability of our military, all these different aspects.

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00:02:56.720 All right, Jeremy.

00:02:57.900 So a few years ago, I started seeing this phrase, quiet quitting, and all of these different magazines started popping up.

00:03:05.520 Very millennial phrase, I think, you know, describing a phenomenon of people not being very invested in their jobs.

00:03:13.200 While the phrase might be a little tired at this point, I think there is a lot of truth to it.

00:03:18.220 I think that is a phenomenon we are seeing over and over again in our society.

00:03:22.020 And you point out in your piece that white men particularly are now doing this.

00:03:26.620 What is quiet quitting?

00:03:27.800 And why would white Americans find themselves investing in this or de-vesting, I guess? 0.76

00:03:32.880 Yeah, well, I think you sort of hit the nail on the head.

00:03:35.760 It's a kind of notion that you're just doing a variety of less pro-social behaviors that show kind of investment in the business or investment in your organization, largely because you may not think that's going to be reciprocated.

00:03:47.760 And I think we've always had slackers at work for varying reasons, but I think kind of the email jobs growth that we had under the COVID regime sort of led to a little bit more of an epidemic of this because it was a lot harder to monitor employee behavior.

00:04:04.560 But what we're really seeing and why kind of was shamelessly using that phrase is that I think in the particular case I'm using it, it is when you look at our leading institutions, educational, military, et cetera, you're seeing white people kind of opting out.

00:04:20.940 And they're not kind of necessarily making a huff about why they're doing this, but the data doesn't lie and the numbers are pretty dramatic.

00:04:27.920 So what areas do you think are seeing the biggest impact of this?

00:04:33.440 If we start seeing a withdrawal of people, like you said, it's not that everyone is no longer involved in these institutions, it's not that people aren't hired, it's not even that people aren't necessarily working, though I think if we look at the workforce numbers, that's also a problem.

00:04:45.960 But it's that people are no longer investing themselves, they're no longer putting those hours in, they're not going to company events, they're not striving, they're not trying to build things.

00:04:54.520 Why is that happening? And what sectors is that impacting the most?

00:05:00.600 Right. Well, I think we're seeing it in a variety of ways and you're beginning to see leading indicators.

00:05:05.600 I think one area that got a lot of attention, excuse me, just recently was in the military where recruitment numbers over just a few years were down enormously among whites on the order of 40%.

00:05:18.320 I mentioned the specific number in my article, I don't have it off the top of my head, whereas every other group was basically flat.

00:05:25.520 Now, that would obviously be really concerning for any group, we don't want any group to feel like they're not invested in protecting and defending the United States.

00:05:34.500 But when you're talking about doing that with white Americans, that is the group that is most likely to be the quote unquote tip of the spear, as they like to say in the military, in terms of the special forces are kind of top, top people, 80 plus percent of the special forces recruits in Iraq and Afghanistan were white.

00:05:53.360 So when you're losing this sort of group disproportionately, you're losing people who disproportionately are the people who would have typically made up your elite soldiers or sailors or airmen.

00:06:06.000 And it's tremendously concerning that that's one really visible place that we've seen it in a way that was just too big to deny.

00:06:12.960 Yeah, I've got a lot of friends who are in the military and they were sounding this alarm a long time ago.

00:06:19.300 They said, look, this is a serious problem because people don't understand that much of our American military is now generational.

00:06:26.800 It's families who have been in the service for a long time.

00:06:30.400 You don't see a lot of people from the outside coming into the United States military.

00:06:34.240 And that's its own separate discussion about the health of a society that kind of has this kind of bifurcation.

00:06:41.480 But you have a very small amount of people, you know, these generational families that are going in and they are forming kind of the backbone of the front line of the military, that tip of the spear, like you're talking about, the special forces.

00:06:54.740 I think you mentioned the Navy SEALs, something being like 80 percent white.

00:06:58.500 A lot of people don't realize that a lot of these people who are kicking in doors, not the guys who are refilling jets and doing paperwork.

00:07:05.400 And God bless them, you know, they're doing hard work, too.

00:07:08.380 I'm not saying they're not. But the guys who are out there who are who are in the most combat effective roles are they're coming from Texas and Appalachia.

00:07:16.360 You know, these are the people who are really filling those. 0.85

00:07:18.520 And when you go ahead and start, you know, telling these people, well, you're the devil.

00:07:22.540 Everything in the society is is that's wrong is because of you. 0.93

00:07:26.400 You're the one that is just destroying the lives of every other American. 0.83

00:07:30.460 They're probably less likely to go out there and kick in doors for a country that treats them that way.

00:07:34.540 No, I think that's absolutely right. And Jesse Kelly, who's a conservative talk show, is probably many of your audience also familiar with him.

00:07:43.520 He put up something on Twitter and I quoted in the article where he he said, look, I'm not encouraging.

00:07:49.480 I'm a veteran. I'm not encouraging my son to go in.

00:07:52.420 And basically all the guys I know who I served with are feeling the same way.

00:07:57.000 I have one of my sons who's who's interested and I haven't discouraged him in any way.

00:08:02.660 In fact, I want to encourage him because I think it's a patriotic thing to do.

00:08:06.200 But he also is going in with his eyes open about the type of treatment that he is maybe willing to get that will be disparate.

00:08:13.320 And he's kind of at least at this point in theory, as he's still in high school, he's willing to kind of put up with that.

00:08:20.680 But he may not later or as he goes on, he may not choose to stay in.

00:08:25.440 And then you combine this with the fact that just I think the other day, a couple of days ago, the military is like, well, how are we going to make up this shortfall?

00:08:33.200 I know. Well, let's do a program for illegal aliens where they can get citizenship if they will go in in what is literally a great replacement of Americans. 0.98

00:08:43.700 And I think you tweeted out, I believe, something about this kind of being a late Roman Empire type maneuver by our regime that we're literally getting to the point where we're grabbing illegals and using them to replace Americans in the workforce. 0.83

00:08:58.500 And I have a whole chapter about the military in my book where I kind of go over the many, many ways in which both overtly and covertly white American soldiers are currently being discriminated against.

00:09:11.540 And, you know, you kind of look at that and maybe you say, I can do something else with my time.

00:09:17.040 Yeah, it really does feel like we're let's get some of these Germanic people to come fight the rest of the Germanic invaders. 0.92

00:09:23.560 And, you know, it'll be just fights. I feel like I've seen this somewhere before.

00:09:28.840 Great plan, guys. How could this possibly fail?

00:09:32.620 But but it is amazing. You know, obviously, we had this effective purge of the military.

00:09:38.020 And don't get me wrong. Again, I've got a lot of friends who are in the military and they've been saying this stuff has been going on for decades.

00:09:43.520 They've been slowly pushing conservatives out. They've been they've been changing over the way that the military works.

00:09:50.640 A lot, a lot less guys who have seen a lot of front line time and as flag officers.

00:09:56.360 Instead, we're getting a lot more guys who are very familiar with corporate boardrooms or, you know, diversity seminars.

00:10:02.420 That's the kind of stuff that's been pushed down on the military for a while now.

00:10:05.980 But given the vaccine mandate allowed for this massive ideological purge of the American military and you can say in one way, well, this is just a ideological purge.

00:10:19.700 It's just a political purge, which is by itself already really concerning.

00:10:23.040 That's a it's a terrifying thing that you're saying. Well, it's just that, you know, that that's already a very bad.

00:10:28.660 But whether we kind of like to notice this or not, political opinions tend to correlate very heavily with demographic groups.

00:10:36.380 And so a purge of conservative Trump supporting Americans in the American military is also de facto a purge of white Americans in the American military.

00:10:47.380 And so the fact that, you know, this process has been going on for a while, but we got that rapid acceleration and it happened right around the time we also wanted to like start jailing political protesters and using the state security apparatus to crack down on voting and the ability to share information.

00:11:04.620 And it feels a little scary when your military is now going to be made up of people who are literally brought in to to guarantee their citizenship instead of people who are there because their families have been part of this country for a very long time and are involved in generational recruitment because they were the front line of the American military back when it was pointed out at outward enemies instead of perhaps inward ones.

00:11:28.820 Yeah, absolutely. And it's actually one of the reasons why I think it's really important that if we get a president Trump is hopefully we will in 2025, he does something with the military where there's some sort of mass offer to all these guys who've been kicked out for vaccine mandates to come back with full credit for time served or whatever.

00:11:47.280 I mean, extra bennies because this is a friend enemy distinction question.

00:11:51.280 I mean, we've kicked out regardless of your views on vaccine pro or con, but we kicked out some of the most conservative and patriotic people in the military and we want to do is bring those guys back in and advantage them, you know, versus the folks who didn't.

00:12:10.280 And, but, but, but as you also point out, this is highly correlated with, um, with demographics.

00:12:15.760 So, so obviously we know the military is a big problem.

00:12:19.780 We've seen the recruiting numbers there.

00:12:21.240 There's been a lot of stories about this.

00:12:22.600 I mean, you know, not, it's not America relevant directly to America, but Britain has literally floated the draft at this point to try to solve this problem.

00:12:30.180 That's how much they've disincentivized their native population to join their own armed services.

00:12:35.820 But what other sectors in the United States are we seeing this impact?

00:12:39.440 Sure.

00:12:40.500 Well, one that's sort of, it didn't surprise me because I knew it was going on in general, but until I really dug into the numbers, I hadn't kind of realized how extreme the gap was because of course the media, the regime media doesn't talk about it at all is in academia, which is if you look at the numbers for white men, um, who of a certain age, you kind of have gone to call, maybe it's like 18 to 25.

00:13:03.820 I can't remember again, I've got the numbers in my piece, but it's, it's like 33%.

00:13:08.240 And that's like one or two points higher than African-American or Hispanic men.

00:13:14.340 And it's like 25 points lower than Asian-American men of the same demographics.

00:13:18.760 But the difference is whites average SAT scores are much, much higher than, um, African-Americans or Hispanics.

00:13:26.800 So if you were expecting, I mean, it's, it's really, you would expect a, in a, in a totally racially blind system, you'd expect their college attendance numbers to be somewhere in between the sort of low thirties numbers that you're seeing for African-Americans and Hispanics.

00:13:42.120 And the 60% number or whatever it was that you're seeing for Asian-Americans, but you're not, you're basically seeing that number be almost as low as groups that on average are much less college ready than white Americans.

00:13:54.640 What that largely suggests is we've got a huge number of college ready, college eligible white American kids who are looking and saying, you know, I just, I don't see the value for me or I don't see an opportunity.

00:14:08.520 I'm even going over this. I'm not, I'm not saying he's explicitly putting this in racial terms in his own mind, but I think he's kind of looking at the scenario, uh, in terms of what's being offered by a college education for somebody like him and maybe feeling like the value proposition is, is not there in the way that it used to be.

00:14:31.080 And so it's a tremendous concern, but again, nobody's even talking about it.

00:14:34.560 There is, there is no regime media out there that is concerned about the dearth of qualified white men going to college.

00:14:44.680 So, uh, you know, that's where we are.

00:14:47.300 Yeah. And, and we see some of these instances pop up, right? You like, you see a plane door blow off in the middle of a flight or you hear about train crashes.

00:14:56.260 You know, uh, one of the things you brought up, brought up in the piece was medical school and the different levels there.

00:15:02.080 And we know at some level we're, we're as a civilization looking at a competency crisis and that crisis has to come when you're no longer choosing people based on merit, when you're no longer looking at objective standards for who is able to compete in a workplace, complete a job,

00:15:20.220 be able to be able to go ahead and bring about the essential services necessary for civilization to function.

00:15:26.300 We have a very complex network of institutions that are necessary for, to operate what is essentially a global empire.

00:15:33.740 And when we go ahead and start picking people because of the way they look, instead of the fact that they're actually able to learn, retain, and go ahead and deploy the skills necessary to do this complicated task,

00:15:45.500 you can expect continuous degeneration. And like you said, it seems like we recognize culturally that this is an issue, but the media of course is very dedicated to making sure we never talk about why it might be an issue.

00:15:59.340 And so therefore it feels like the degeneration of the society just becomes part of life, a kind of a gray background, like almost a Soviet, you know, style wasting away.

00:16:10.780 Well, we just can't make bicycles anymore. We, we've just lost the technology of how to manufacture a car.

00:16:17.200 It feels like we're, we're looking at that rather than acknowledging any of the serious parts of the problem.

00:16:22.640 Oh, absolutely. And it is also a contagion. I mean, I, I started my career many, many years ago in the software business.

00:16:29.060 And I remember them talking about how, you know, grade a software developers who are usually infinitely more, I mean, almost an order of magnitude, more productive than sort of an average software developers.

00:16:39.900 They want to work with other grade a software developers. So if you flood the zone with a bunch of mediocre people, they don't want to be there.

00:16:47.840 And that is true. That is not just a unique thing to software. It's like any institution.

00:16:53.360 I mean, I even look at this for like, why are Republican staffers with some very honorable exceptions, but some of them are friends of mine.

00:17:01.200 Why do they tend to be so, so mediocre? You know, it's because the environment doesn't really select for grade a talent.

00:17:08.060 Grade a talent doesn't want to be around grace, grade C political hack talent. 0.95

00:17:13.420 And so that's, you know, it's a problem for us, even in the political realm.

00:17:19.660 But, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, we've really gotten on this very, very dangerous sort of road for the U.S. to be on.

00:17:30.160 And of course, this is not to suggest some, you know, perfect scenario a hundred years ago, where somehow there wasn't racial discrimination.

00:17:37.360 Of course there was, right. But we, we quickly went from doing one type of racial discrimination that wasn't ideal to doing much more severe levels, arguably of racial discrimination.

00:17:49.460 That's also far from ideal without ever stopping and trying to just sort of treat people according to their merits as job candidates or as soldiers or what have you.

00:18:00.060 Yeah, I think that's really critical. And I want to dive into, into that with you at length.

00:18:05.220 Cause I think that's, that's really the meat of the problem that we're running into now is the way that we have institutionalized this vast system in, in maybe a way that never even existed back in the worst of Jim Crow. 0.71

00:18:16.380 And people are going to balk when I say it, they're going to be like, how could you, but like, you know, once we dive into this, people are going to realize how important race has now become in every institution.

00:18:24.820 It's the thing that everyone has to see at every moment of every day and every decision they make.

00:18:29.920 And I think that really creates a scenario you're talking about where we're simply unable to function as a society because we're paralyzed and focused on this issue 24 seven, unable to go ahead and pick people who can actually do their job because this is the only thing that we really care about.

00:18:44.600 But before we dive into that guys real quick, I want to tell you a little bit about ISI universities today, aren't just neglecting real education.

00:18:51.480 They're actively undermining it and we can't let them get away with it.

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00:20:15.100 All right.

00:20:16.600 So, Jeremy, I want to ask you this because I think a lot of people will look at what has happened and they're just thinking, how did we get here?

00:20:24.920 Most people, I think conservatives, Republicans, they want to look at what has happened in the United States and they want to see what has happened as progress, right?

00:20:36.360 We don't want overt discrimination holding down black Americans arbitrarily.

00:20:41.580 We don't want a legislative regime that goes ahead and oppresses people based on their skin color.

00:20:48.860 They really want to reach for that idea that we are picking the best people, that we are choosing people entirely on their character and their merit, right?

00:20:56.880 That these are the things that are the core selection process for what we do.

00:21:02.060 But as you said, it's becoming very clear that we have installed an entire architecture that has made race the most salient thing across every business, every nonprofit, every educational institution, every government.

00:21:16.780 It doesn't matter what your institution is.

00:21:19.280 It's required by law to be obsessed with race at every opportunity.

00:21:24.580 And I think they look at this and they say, how could we possibly have gone from one version of this that a lot of people say, okay, yeah, we need to walk away from this.

00:21:33.720 This is not okay, but we have inverted this so thoroughly to the point where it's almost comical in how we've created this funhouse mirror of discrimination against the population, which was, you know, and still is just barely the majority of the United States.

00:21:51.180 Yeah, absolutely right.

00:21:52.160 And Tucker actually made that precise point in the very kind blurb he gave for my book.

00:21:57.540 But, yeah, it's a problem.

00:22:00.500 And I think you're right to focus a lot of attention on civil rights law.

00:22:05.400 There are folks like Richard Hanania who kind of point this out, I think, almost to the exclusion of some other things that I think are also important.

00:22:12.820 But I do think that absolutely civil rights law, as currently interpreted, and particularly the accretive additions to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that happened subsequently, both in terms of administrative interpretation and from Civil Rights Act renewals or kind of additions in the early 1990s, kind of turbocharged this problem.

00:22:37.180 So I do think that that's been really important.

00:22:40.700 However, I also think the kind of the black pill, if you were, is even if we got fully rid of this, there would be a lot of institutions that I think still had a lot of problems because it's been so baked into our DNA.

00:22:53.640 It's been so baked into our educational institutions and the way particularly younger people are taught, the way they think about things, that even without those sorts of laws, we're still going to have problems.

00:23:10.500 And in fact, there is an interesting Supreme Court case because originally there was a case on disparate impact, which is a civil rights law in the 1960s.

00:23:24.000 It was a Supreme Court ruling that said that basically it was it was called Griggs versus Duke Power, excuse me, 1971.

00:23:32.520 And I believe that it basically said, if you have a test and that test kind of ends up advantaging one race over another, even if there was no intention to do so, you have to kind of jump through all these hoops to show that it's OK for you to use.

00:23:50.680 And so, of course, most people didn't do that.

00:23:52.240 And then in the late 1980s, the Supreme Court kind of looked at this and even the much, much more liberal Supreme Court of that era said, whoa, you know, we went too far.

00:24:00.860 This is we've got racial quotas effectively.

00:24:03.420 And so there was a case called Ward's Cove and they basically did away with Griggs effectively.

00:24:09.920 They kind of changed the burden of proof.

00:24:11.880 And then what happened was the business community pressured the George W. Bush, H.W. Bush, rather, excuse me, administration.

00:24:22.920 And George H.W. Bush was not kind of maybe known for having the biggest spine on this or other issues to kind of say, hey, reinstitute this.

00:24:29.840 And so a Republican regime, Republican administration, rather, reinstituted this discriminatory law.

00:24:38.000 It actually codified it into the law, whereas previously it had just kind of been a Supreme Court judgment.

00:24:43.420 Obviously, that had legal force, but it wasn't the same thing as a congressionally passed law.

00:24:47.880 So it sort of showed how people got used to this discriminatory environment.

00:24:51.580 And then when you try to take it away, they actually rebelled against it.

00:24:55.720 And that has had all sorts of deleterious effects, even to this day.

00:24:59.440 Again, I write about this in the book.

00:25:01.200 And by the way, I mean, the Supreme, the conservative civil rights attorneys at the time, and there were a few political appointees, they understood exactly how bad this was going to be when they put this in the 1991, I believe, Civil Rights Act.

00:25:16.440 But there was just a lot of political pressure and the administration was not successful in resisting that pressure.

00:25:21.700 Yeah, I think you're really right to point out that while this is very heavily a legal issue and there is this entire racial superstructure built into our every institution, that even if that was all to disappear tomorrow, the narrative that undergirds this whole thing is still critical.

00:25:39.020 I mean, you know, we obviously have now theoretically an overturning of some parts of affirmative action from the Supreme Court, right?

00:25:47.180 But we immediately look at the different educational institutions and they basically laugh at the Supreme Court.

00:25:52.800 They're like, oh, that's nice.

00:25:53.940 We're just going to change everything to dodge this.

00:25:56.140 We've seen little to no change from almost every institution that is currently deploying these racial favoritism, racial bias against white applicants.

00:26:07.180 You know, you still have all of these different internships and scholarships and things that are racially exclusive.

00:26:17.240 These things have not suddenly disappeared overnight just because some Supreme Court ruling came down.

00:26:22.000 So while it's important to undo much of this legal architecture, I think you're right to say that this goes far beyond simply just going ahead and striking down a law or two or flipping a couple of Supreme Court rulings because this is baked so deeply into the American identity at this point that it's going to take a whole different type of strategy to go ahead and make that turn around.

00:26:42.320 Yeah, that's absolutely correct.

00:26:44.640 And in fact, you see this, what kind of getting rid of these legal strictures does is for the institutions, the few out there that don't want to cooperate with that regime anyway, now gives them the excuse.

00:26:57.900 So, for example, you saw Missouri as soon as that ruling came down, their attorney general, who's on top of things, eliminated race specific scholarships in the state.

00:27:06.960 And he was able to successfully do that. But I don't know that I saw any other state do that.

00:27:12.460 Right. They either weren't on the ball enough or they haven't pushed it enough or whatever have you.

00:27:16.520 And now you actually just recently you mentioned this.

00:27:18.820 I think just yesterday the Supreme Court kind of declined to hear a case about merit admissions at the Thomas Jefferson High School of Science.

00:27:27.380 I believe it's called in Virginia, which was a very elite high school that was clearly discriminating based on race.

00:27:35.460 And this the Supreme Court declined to review this and they did so under what was and again, I haven't read the decision.

00:27:43.320 So I'm relying on this secondhand. So please, Twitter conservative attorneys who have read it, don't don't come and shoot me.

00:27:49.560 But but my understanding is basically the kind of decision was functionally like, yeah, we don't really want to explore how bad this is going to be.

00:27:56.040 We're not going to set an outer limit. And if you can come up with some reasonable proxies for race that don't kind of look quite as blatant, then we might look the other way.

00:28:05.860 And to their credit, Alito and Thomas, who are really the only two solid Supreme Court justices we have across the board, said Alito had this dissent where he's kind of like, this is outrageous.

00:28:17.000 You know, this is exactly what we were trying to legislate against.

00:28:21.200 And now we should just strike this down because it's clearly inconsistent with with our original ruling.

00:28:28.200 But they can get the other justices to go along with them.

00:28:31.380 And so as a result, now you have this hole.

00:28:34.560 And even if it's a small hole, you can bet that the Harvards of the world are going to drive a truck through it. 0.89

00:28:40.320 So that's where we are. And it is a cultural problem.

00:28:44.120 It is not just something we can't just law.

00:28:46.800 Lawfare is super important.

00:28:48.300 I talk about lawfare in my book and the importance of it.

00:28:50.680 But it's just one step in a much broader set of things that we need to be doing.

00:28:55.020 Stop wondering. Start winning.

00:29:22.820 Winners find fabulous for less.

00:29:25.820 It's kind of terrifying that like Clarence Tomius and Samuel Lito are literally just holding American civilization aloft on their backs like Atlas.

00:29:33.820 And if at any moment one of them decides to just shrug, it's all over.

00:29:37.340 Yeah.

00:29:37.940 But but here we are.

00:29:39.820 So there's this is very complicated and I haven't gotten into your whole book yet.

00:29:44.500 So you'll you'll you'll just be letting me know this one for the first time because but I'm interested in picking your brain on this.

00:29:49.740 It feels like there's two critical aspects that we have here.

00:29:53.840 Right. The first we're not allowed, I think, to notice that we have group differences that are repeatedly showing up in the data.

00:30:04.960 Right. And so when we look at merit based admission, when we look at completely colorblind performance metrics, if anyone looks and takes off the color blinder for a second, they recognize that actually these things don't just equally distribute themselves across the American population.

00:30:23.720 They have predictable, reliable results.

00:30:26.640 And that fact means that if we go to a truly merit meritocratic system, the demographics of our institutions will shift rather significantly in ways that would be shocking to many even conservative people.

00:30:42.820 And I think that that outcome, even though it would be truer to what we say we want from our system, even as conservatives, is so scary for many people that they're unwilling to go ahead and engage with even the most basic implications of what they say is their own ideology, a system where people are judged by the content of their character and their ability rather than the color of their skin.

00:31:08.320 Yeah, I think that's right.

00:31:38.320 That's right.

00:32:08.320 That's right.

00:32:38.300 That's right.

00:33:08.280 That's right.

00:33:38.280 Because you put more and more pressure politically on the system to adjust the numbers to look something like the current demographics.

00:33:46.780 So, you know, that's harsh, but I think that's where, even though it would not be my personal preference, it would not be how I would do things if I were hiring, etc.

00:33:55.560 But I think that's kind of what I would do, but I think that's kind of what I would do, but I think it's good for argument's sake of pure diversity hires and the folks who are left, maybe they won't be on average quite as good, but they're still going to be like pretty solid folks.

00:34:16.680 And that's just socially the way that they're going to be on average.

00:34:17.680 And that's just socially the way things are likely to work out.

00:34:25.180 And that's just so critical.

00:34:26.180 Yeah.

00:34:27.180 The issues we're talking about right now.

00:34:29.180 are incredibly delicate.

00:34:30.180 Like, you can literally feel the live wire next to you when you're talking about them, right?

00:34:34.380 And that shouldn't be the case.

00:34:36.200 That shouldn't be the way that we have to live our lives in the United States.

00:34:39.460 But unfortunately, it's just really true.

00:34:41.220 But we can't even begin to have these conversations, as you say, in a country that is constantly shifting demographically.

00:34:48.320 What does one group owe to another historically?

00:34:51.000 How do we manage these different deaths, these historical relationships?

00:34:55.720 How do we go ahead and codify this or find a way to go ahead and heal old wounds and forge an identity together and unify in some way?

00:35:05.540 If we don't have the ability to at least lock down and control what the nation looks like at this point, you can't actually have any discussion about any of this in reality.

00:35:16.000 You know, forget, like you said, some kind of wild veil of ignorance, autism, but actually discussing it in political reality in the way that the groups exist today.

00:35:25.860 You can't discuss that if we literally have one political party who is dedicated to just leaving the border open and letting in as many foreign people as humanly possible to shift permanently and explicitly the demographics of the country.

00:35:40.200 How can you even have a negotiation without first completely locking down what we have here now so we can talk about these things in a realistic manner?

00:35:49.220 No, that's absolutely right.

00:35:50.340 Right. And and it's that's a challenge.

00:35:53.060 I think if there's one slight white pill within this kind of ridiculous demographic transformation that we're doing, it's that a lot of these other groups that are coming in are not as suffused with white guilt as white people are in this country.

00:36:10.800 And therefore, they are less likely to tolerate being discriminated against just because of some claims of a historical reparation in the Broadway being used against them.

00:36:22.020 And that's interesting. One of the reasons why you saw California again defeating affirmative action, California being a highly diverse state with tons of immigrants last year or the last election at the same time when when the Democrats were sailing to huge victories.

00:36:37.860 So I do think there are some opportunities. So I do think there are some opportunities, but but basically you need to stop.

00:36:43.400 I mean, I call for net zero immigration in the book, but but if you don't kind of get a handle on some of these issues more broadly, it's it's not a coincidence that the kind of almost cheesy American heyday of commercials that when you're trying to do, you know, this almost mocking 21st century look at at American life, you go back to the 1950s.

00:37:06.540 OK, and again, I'm not there were obviously a lot of social problems in the 1950s, but that was also toward the end of a time right before the Hart Seller immigration bill totally blew everything wide open where we had very, very little immigration and a chance to socially weak recohere a unified identity among immigrant groups and a unified new American identity.

00:37:30.700 I don't think it's a coincidence that it was at that moment that we had a much more sort of coherent social structure, more positive demographics.

00:37:42.040 And I think really the key to doing that is to look, we're not going back to whatever the demographics of America were 80 years ago, 100 years ago. It's not happening. Right.

00:37:52.820 So what we have to figure out is how do we Americanize this country that we have now into some sort of unified identity?

00:38:01.040 And as you correctly say, the sine qua non of doing that is you've got to to shut the border.

00:38:09.520 And of course, that's why the Democrats don't want to shut the border, because they're happy to put your racial politics from here to infinity. 0.75

00:38:14.720 Right. Absolutely. I mean, I don't know if we're ever going to get a proper American ethnogenesis, but we're not going to get even close if we can't have at least a unified understanding of the field of where we are and take stock.

00:38:28.760 And that requires a level of stability that we are desperately actively destroying.

00:38:34.480 We are trying to avoid at all costs, again, for the political advantage of the left.

00:38:39.000 Well, the other thing that I think is is another landmine, but I think we can't we just can't avoid if we're if we're going to look honestly at what's happening here is, you know, you pointed pointed out that, you know, many of the new immigrant groups have no problem. 0.99

00:38:55.160 You know, they don't have that level of white guilt. They don't have the problem of, you know, feeling like they have to play some kind of some some kind of blood libel tax for everything wrong with the United States.

00:39:05.680 And so they're not going to sit around and take the same kind of crap that kind of your squishy white liberal is. 0.94

00:39:10.980 However, you know, this has created the phenomenon inside the conservative new movement where we have to go, like, find someone of a slightly darker complexion to say something obvious. 0.99

00:39:22.560 Right. Like this has kind of become, you know, and, you know, it's very embarrassing that this is a phenomenon that the conservatives, that the right Republicans constantly engage with.

00:39:33.320 It's like, oh, good. We have a Hispanic person to say that we need to reduce immigration. 1.00

00:39:37.520 Oh, good. We have someone from the African-American community to say that crime is bad and we need intact families like this is, you know, this is something that is is very common inside the right. 1.00

00:39:49.540 And obviously, this is this also becomes an issue when we look, as you said, at these different institutions, even when you get a positive change in a law, you get a Supreme Court ruling or legislative victory of some kind.

00:40:02.600 You almost never have people willing to go advocate, you know, when when a law changes or a Supreme Court ruling changes in the favor of the left, they deploy thousands, tens of thousands of activists and lawyers.

00:40:16.020 They descend like locusts on every piece of civic machinery inside the United States and immediately stress to this to their maximum political advantage.

00:40:26.660 Right. Like this is why their machine is just so much better than the right, because they're allowed to explicitly say, oh, this victory was just won for black people, for Hispanic people, for Asian Americans, whatever.

00:40:37.760 And we're going to go, you know, force this and maximize this in every scenario.

00:40:43.500 Obviously, Republicans can't do that. They can't say, oh, actually, we got rid of discrimination for white Americans and we're going to go make sure that white males are now proportionally represented in every one of these institutions.

00:40:56.400 That is something that will get you immediate accusations of only the most heinous names.

00:41:01.400 And this feels like a very serious block, because if this is the way our politics works, if leveraging these things to continuous advantage is the kind of thing that really is what turns the American political machine.

00:41:14.540 But one group is not able to do that and everybody else realizes that's like the key to to, you know, having any kind of political power in the United States.

00:41:23.640 That kind of creates a serious issue when it comes to, you know, figuring out what we're doing inside our country.

00:41:29.940 Absolutely. And I'm really glad that you mentioned both of these things.

00:41:34.940 A, the Republicans never know. They're like the dog who caught the car and they have no idea what to do.

00:41:40.420 We saw this so visibly with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, where in theory, we've been talking about this forever and we should have had a whole sensible legislative, you know, politically winning legislative and communication strategy ready to go.

00:41:54.920 But we were so used, unused to winning on any substance that mattered, any issue that mattered, that in fact, we were caught completely flat footed and the Democrats were able to reverse what should have been our biggest victory.

00:42:07.940 And I think we're beginning to kind of finally right that ship, but only after a number of losses.

00:42:14.220 But even more, I'm glad you mentioned this whole issue of getting the person a slightly darker complexion to say the thing that you want to say.

00:42:21.600 This was something I really fought against.

00:42:23.380 I make this point quite explicitly in my book, in writing the book, because as you can imagine, I got a lot of feedback from friends and others, you know, when I told them I was going to write this book.

00:42:33.480 And one of the most frequent was, hey, that's great.

00:42:38.320 I'm so glad you're doing this.

00:42:40.200 That's really brave of you.

00:42:41.360 It's really important that we talk about this.

00:42:43.160 But boy, it would be great, better if Candace Owens did this, right, or something. 0.93

00:42:46.640 I really like Candace Owens.

00:42:48.040 I think she's great.

00:42:49.460 And she's actually touched on these issues, right?

00:42:51.200 But my broader point is, no, white people should be able to unequivocally advocate for themselves and for the, you know, and complain about the fact that they're being discriminated against and that that's not just and it's not American.

00:43:06.060 And we shouldn't have to have somebody else making that point on our behalf, that that in and of itself is a symptom of the problem that we have.

00:43:17.880 And so I very much tried to get away from that notion that, yeah, I did get the feedback, oh, well, somebody else should say it.

00:43:25.340 Well, if you can't say it for yourself, then you're automatically coming from a losing position.

00:43:30.840 And so I just started with the assumption that there is absolutely nothing wrong with me saying these things.

00:43:38.080 There is absolutely nothing wrong with white people pointing out what is going on in this country and that it is profoundly to their disadvantage and that it is profoundly unjust and demanding something better and organizing for something better.

00:43:51.820 Yeah, I think when you have an entire academia, when you have corporations that explicitly hold seminars saying be less white, purge whiteness, whiteness is destroying culture.

00:44:03.380 I mean, this is this is this is blood libel.

00:44:06.520 That's the kind of rhetoric that is being thrown around there. 0.98

00:44:09.080 And if you can't acknowledge that, if you're just going to sit around and be like, don't want to roll any feathers, why people say that, you know, I'm some kind of parasite that should be eradicated from society.

00:44:19.000 It's like, yeah, well, I mean, I've seen this play out before.

00:44:22.760 I'm not I'm a bit of a student of history.

00:44:25.280 And this seems like a like a very bad place to be in any given society.

00:44:30.360 And you should probably be aware of that.

00:44:32.960 But but yeah, Jeremy, I'm excited to go ahead and dive more into the book.

00:44:36.780 I think it's really important.

00:44:37.900 I think it's a topic that only that while incredibly difficult is only becoming more important.

00:44:43.760 And we're just not doing ourselves any favor by ignoring it.

00:44:47.540 A lot of people want to create proxies for this.

00:44:49.620 A lot of people want to dodge this subject.

00:44:51.920 But it is it is critical that we be able to engage in this and do so in a kind, respectful and thoughtful way, but still doing it in a way that that is addressing what is a critical issue.

00:45:04.080 Because if you don't do this, it's only going to get worse.

00:45:08.220 And the outcome is going to be terrible for everybody.

00:45:11.280 We don't want people quitting society.

00:45:12.980 We don't want people walking away.

00:45:15.000 You know, we need everyone contributing to the United States.

00:45:17.920 We need the best.

00:45:18.580 We need the brightest.

00:45:19.200 And we can't have a society like that if we've decided to single out one group and say, you're not allowed to compete because of the color of your skin.

00:45:28.000 Absolutely.

00:45:28.640 And this is a key point you make.

00:45:30.240 And again, I make it again, almost close my book with it to say that this is not about what's best for white people, although that certainly is a component of it. 0.67

00:45:39.120 But it's what's best for America, like it's bad for everybody of every race, of every background, if we're not treating people in as fair and as colorblind a manner as we possibly can.

00:45:51.340 And again, I'm not naive about realities.

00:45:53.120 Those things are are always going to be there.

00:45:54.980 But but if we're not at least aiming toward that goal, if we're not at least calling out that, no, you don't get to stigmatize whiteness or talk about white guilt or this and that.

00:46:04.840 This is kind of a baseline for for where we need to be in this country.

00:46:09.700 And one of the things that does encourage me, I started writing this book a year and a half ago.

00:46:13.480 And a lot of the stuff that I felt like when I started to write the book and when I made the proposal to my publisher, I was like, whoa, you know, pretty high high wire here.

00:46:22.200 No, doesn't look like there's any net down there.

00:46:25.380 Now, just even in the last 18 months, I think I'm seeing a lot more people, again, of all backgrounds who are speaking up about this.

00:46:34.200 And are saying, yeah, this is wrong.

00:46:37.120 And you are not afraid to go on X or a place like that where with their very big audiences, in many cases, much bigger than mine and call out anti whiteness for what it is, say that we shouldn't be putting up with this in society to kind of point us in a better direction. 0.65

00:46:52.520 And so I'm actually very I don't know that I'd say I'm hopeful per se over the long run, but I'm really hopeful that at least over the next decade, this conversation is going to become much more honest, much more real.

00:47:06.180 And then hopefully we will correct and find ourselves in a little bit better place.

00:47:10.840 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:47:11.500 I mean, you have people like Charlie Kirk.

00:47:13.280 You have people like Matt Walsh.

00:47:14.840 You have guys with with massive platforms out there who are saying, look, you know, we can talk about this like adults.

00:47:22.020 You know, it's time for us to have this conversation.

00:47:24.080 The hour is too late.

00:47:25.400 We cannot sit around and pretend like this isn't an issue.

00:47:28.040 And I agree with you.

00:47:29.000 I think that's an incredibly important step because, again, it's just no one has done any favors of no American of any of any race race or any background has done any favors by by pretending like the regime that is currently installed, the way that people are handled in the current hiring system, in the current institutional and legal system, pretending like any of that is OK.

00:47:52.300 It's not.

00:47:52.860 And people do need to be able to talk about that.

00:47:54.940 All right. Well, we're going to transition over some questions from the people.

00:47:58.640 But, Jeremy, before we do, I'm sure the book is available for preorder.

00:48:01.860 Can you tell people where to find it?

00:48:04.000 Sure. The book is called The Unprotected Class, How Anti-White Racism is Tearing America Apart.

00:48:09.800 You can find it at Amazon or Barnes and Noble or any of the places online.

00:48:13.360 It'll be out in April, but it is available right now for preorder.

00:48:17.720 And as a side note, look, I, of course, I'd love people to order the book and read the book.

00:48:23.580 Look, I'm not getting rich off your purchase of the book.

00:48:26.800 Trust me.

00:48:27.460 I wish it were true.

00:48:28.460 But what you do do is if you're finding this type of conversation valuable, even if you think, well, gosh, I really wish you'd made this point or this point or made it differently, the way that we send a message to the mainstream publishing community, and I do have a very mainstream publisher for this, that these issues are important and that we should talk about them, is if they see that people are buying books about this.

00:48:51.020 That's the best signal that they can get that, oh, actually, there's an audience that cares about this, that wants to do it, that wants to advance the discussion of these issues.

00:49:01.280 So if you think that this even might be of possible interest to you, I'd certainly encourage you to buy a copy and read it.

00:49:08.340 And you can even, once it's out, you can give me direct feedback through that or through my Twitter profile, Real Jeremy Carl, or my new substack, The Course of Empire, which is jeremycarl.substack.com.

00:49:22.140 Absolutely.

00:49:23.120 All right, guys, let's go ahead and head over to your questions.

00:49:26.000 Cooper Weirdo says, we can totally have a government run by foxes, guys.

00:49:29.740 Yeah, we've been stuck in Pareto's fox world for quite a long time.

00:49:34.800 That's why the military is in the shape it is in right now, and unfortunately, that might be the case for a little while longer.

00:49:43.240 Cooper Weirdo says, also, you'll feel so silly when we put the woke away, Oren.

00:49:47.860 It's happening even now.

00:49:49.360 You just don't want to see it.

00:49:50.680 There are white boys in the army ads.

00:49:52.540 Yeah, I think most people who watch the show are familiar, but I don't know if you know, Jeremy.

00:49:56.680 I mean, I'm in a showdown with a friend of mine, Neva Parvini, on whether or not the woke will be put away, whether we will abandon kind of the blatant diversity propaganda constantly everywhere.

00:50:09.120 My bet is no.

00:50:10.460 But what do you think about that?

00:50:12.760 I tend to agree with you.

00:50:14.100 I mean, I am optimistic that we can actually put together a winning coalition.

00:50:18.480 I'm not blackpilled by not accepting defeat.

00:50:21.400 If I did, I wouldn't have written this book.

00:50:24.160 But I do think I agree with Frederick Douglass, who basically said, you know, power does not concede anything without demand.

00:50:30.740 Like, that's the bottom line.

00:50:31.960 You have to show them that there is a certain place that they are not allowed to push you.

00:50:36.820 And that if they do, we're going to push back even harder.

00:50:41.080 I kind of talk about this in my book, the idea of the kind of Cold War idea of mutually assured destruction, which we used to navigate our nuclear arsenals with the Soviets and encourage folks to say, you know, hey, maybe we're not going to fire these things because it'll lead to the entire destruction of the world if we do so.

00:50:58.480 So that's where we need to be, not with the literal destruction of the world, but with the social fabric of the country on some of these issues involving race, where we need to make it really clear that when the Democrats engage in these blatantly anti-white racist sorts of strategies, that the payback is going to be so immediate, so painful for them that they will cease and desist from doing so.

00:51:19.600 And I think if they do that, maybe it's a certain point, not everybody has to love each other and sit in a circle and say kumbaya, but they can kind of say, hey, you know, maybe we should just let this sleeping dog lie and try to treat everybody equally and fairly, and that'll probably be the best outcome for everybody.

00:51:39.820 And I think that that is achievable, but we've got to be, we've got to be, as Donald Trump might say, we have to be a lot tougher.

00:51:45.800 Absolutely.

00:51:46.160 Uh, let's see, we have, uh, Zass Splash, I think is the right way to say that, uh, just pre-ordered Oren's new book, a reminder to everyone to support your friends, looking forward to getting my copy, God bless.

00:51:57.440 Well, thank you very much, guys.

00:51:58.600 Yeah, I also have a book, obviously, coming out, uh, The Total State, it won't be out till May, though, so, so you'll have plenty of time, you can read Jeremy's book, and then you can move on to mine, you'll have an excellent back-to-back reading experience, uh, but of course, mine is also available for pre-order if people would like to do that.

00:52:14.600 And I'm looking forward to reading that.

00:52:16.160 Absolutely, appreciate it, man.

00:52:18.240 Uh, let's see, uh, Ben Dover, uh, excellent, only the best audience I have here in, on the Oren McIntyre program.

00:52:24.680 Uh, I was in the, uh, Army, uh, Army Infantry, uh, the last half of the 2000s, and all combat units were over 8% white.

00:52:33.820 I'll tell anyone who asked me about joining to stay out, Christ is King.

00:52:37.140 Yeah, uh, Ben, like you said, I, I have heard the same thing from many of my friends who were in the military, that's, that's pretty consistently, uh, the case, and so when you go ahead and racially bias your military in this way, you absolutely destroy its effectiveness.

00:52:51.580 There, there's simply no reason to do this other than, you know, if you're attempting to, uh, create a military that is, uh, not maximally combat effective against your foreign enemy.

00:53:01.600 Yeah, and when we wind up with an aircraft carrier sunk at the bottom of the sea, we're going to realize it's a problem.

00:53:08.000 That's Jesse Kelly has used that metaphor a lot to talk about our, uh, concerning direction the military is heading on these issues.

00:53:14.300 There, there is, uh, there's a very real moment of, uh, is that our Chernobyl, you know, or something like, like when, when America's ability to project global power suddenly just, you know, completely collapses when people realize we're not competent enough to, to keep this, this, you know, Herculean feet of, of running these destroyer or these, uh, carrier groups around the globe.

00:53:37.220 Yeah. I mean, I've heard the phrase used, um, a geopolitical run on the bank. Maybe you may be seeing it right now, right? Where suddenly people realize that all this bluster that we've had about trying to be everywhere and maximally everything and turn up the weapon shipments of weapons that we don't have with money that we don't have up to 11, um, uh, that, that in fact we get our bluff called, we get our butt kicked a couple of times, and then we have no credibility anywhere as opposed to really figuring out where our strategic

00:54:07.220 interests lie our core strategic interests lie our core strategic interests and organizing our force so that we are defending those with the maximum seriousness and credibility.

00:54:17.120 I'm trying to remember which country it, I saw some, some article about where one country sent like the few remaining artillery pieces they had left to Ukraine. And it's like, man, there's just no better, no better way to just explain the travesty that is kind of our global situation where people are like, yeah, I'll just give

00:54:37.220 away, you know, uh, you know, uh, you know, I'll give away what's left of the, the few things I have for my nation's own defense of its own people, just so I can throw this into a war that is absolutely not going to be won by Ukraine. And is really just a, this, this way to fund defense contractors and kind of attempt to, to punish, uh, you know, the, the political enemies of some of the deep state at, at amazing thing to watch really is. Uh, let's see a tiny Rick here says white pill, my direct experience in the insurance industry, small 0.51

00:55:07.220 companies, less than a hundred people has been free of DEI. Everyone on team is a DEI refugee from one of the insurance mega corporations. Yeah. This is something I actually wanted to touch on. So thank you, tiny Rick for, for bringing this up. Cause I actually, I forgot to bring this up. Uh, one of the effects that's going to happen here, right. Is that if all of these competent people are quiet, quitting large corporations, major institutions, these kinds of things, that talent, I mean, a lot of these people will just end up playing video games, I guess, but some of that talent's going to go into, 0.96

00:55:37.200 unorthodox places, right. We're going to see these surges of talent in institutions that are in places that are not major institutions. That's got to shift some of the energy, right? That's got to be a vibe shift where all of the best talent is no longer concentrated in these massive fortune 500 companies. We're not just grinding IQ into the finance industry, but we're actually seeing it go to places that otherwise wouldn't be welcome and, and create new and interesting things.

00:56:03.720 Absolutely. And I'll give a free plug for your early sponsor, new founding, uh, my friend, Nate Fisher and team doing that. I think this is a, a great example of a kind of, uh, attempt to grow aligned businesses as he, he sort of diplomatically, I think they put it in their advertising, but really to kind of, you know, find non-woke people who are very talented, who'd like to work together and certainly encourage your, uh, your listeners in the job market to go out, uh, and look there or to post, uh, jobs there.

00:56:31.720 But I think also what you're, you're, you're touching on, I think you will see more and more movement towards some of these smaller groups and out of the megacorp, you're going to see more talent, um, migrating to some of these places that are not infected by DEI.

00:56:46.740 And in the best sort of case scenario, of course, this would proliferate. And these small companies would eventually become the big companies and have the best people and, and take over the industry. I do have a slight concern, even though I think that's a very positive development. And I don't want to discourage in any way. I think it makes sense. And that's when I look at my own boys, I think they're kind of, to the extent they're thinking about their careers in high school, they're, they're almost implicitly thinking that way.

00:57:14.220 Um, but kind of totally abandoning all of the elite corporations that are still going to be elite probably for a while has its own dangers. And I'm not willing to, you know, we've totally lost academia.

00:57:27.380 And it's not clear to me the fact that we are going to offer a better education at the University of Austin or at Hillsdale or whatever, really totally makes up for the fact that we don't have anywhere in the Ivy League, right? So I think it's great that folks are DEI refugees and finding and starting their own businesses. And that's wonderful. And I want to encourage that.

00:57:48.960 But I don't think it totally solves the broader problem of the fact that the elite leading institutions have been so corrupted.

00:57:56.060 Yeah, that does has a little bit into tiny Rick's other comment in the long run, legitimate talent prevails. That said, how much more medical malpractice or air disaster are we in for in the short run? Yeah, I mean, I understand what you're saying. And to some extent, that's true, right? Eventually, it will win out. But that doesn't mean that like certain systems can't collapse in the meantime.

00:58:16.420 The truth is that we're, you know, we are deep into the problem of Pareto's kind of circulation of elites. We are not bringing in new talent. We've completely ostracized a clear section of the population that needs to bring new blood in to go ahead and renew what's left of kind of the United States.

00:58:35.200 And because we're not doing that, you know, we're going to have these system failures. And I don't think people are going to change those ideas until we see really serious consequences. I wish that wasn't the case. But if I'm, if I'm making kind of my learned guess, that would be it.

00:58:51.820 Yeah, and I think that's right. And unfortunately, people like to talk about the planes flying out, flying out of the sky. I think you'd need a lot of those before people would really change their view, because there's always going to be some plausible explanation that is not the explanation that's staring you right in the face for medical malpractice for the collapse of these things.

00:59:14.980 There's always going to be a political incentive to pretend it's something that it isn't. And so you're going to really need to see just incredibly severe kind of collapse of these systems before they'll kind of break on their own. And again, if you were to use an ancient Roman sort of metaphor, people have argued kind of the Roman Empire sort of was in collapse for multi hundred years, right, before it finally fell.

00:59:39.500 So as Edmund Burke, I believe, said, there's a great deal of ruin in the nation. And I think we unfortunately, if we don't correct, there's quite a bit further that we could fall before we'll really, you know, finally decide that enough is enough.

00:59:54.660 Yeah, you beat me to my favorite black pill quote. Well done. Good quick draw there. Thuggo says, what would happen if mass numbers of illegal agreements went to Congo, Sudan or Saudi Arabia?

01:00:06.120 Yeah. Well, I don't think they would get into Saudi Arabia. I don't know that Sudan or Congo has the level of controlled, actually.

01:00:12.840 Yeah.

01:00:13.700 But I don't think any of those countries, I think your point is well taken, but I don't think any of those countries would be very would be very happy for that.

01:00:21.180 And you can tell because a large number, to be clear, a lot of the countries that are involved in this kind of land bridge to the United States, they only allow these people to pass through because they are passing through.

01:00:33.020 They know that they'd have a difficult time stopping a large number of immigrants. And so the deal is basically, well, you can go ahead and get through here as fast as possible. 1.00

01:00:42.380 That's the only reason we're going to let you into either side of our border. So I think even the countries in, you know, through which these migrants flow wouldn't want them to be there. 1.00

01:00:50.900 And then the only reason they're allowing to pass through in the first place is that they won't be stopping in those countries.

01:00:56.160 Absolutely. And I think the sort of better country to use as an example is China, which lets in just a few thousand immigrants per year.

01:01:05.280 I mean, something ridiculously low. And in fact, I think you could plausibly make an argument that China would be better off, particularly with high skilled immigrants, if it took more. 0.99

01:01:16.360 Like, to me, China needs more Hong Kongs and more Shanghais with that kind of international city.

01:01:23.320 I mean, I have spent a fair bit of time there and it's not they sort of suffer from being maybe a little bit too closed in.

01:01:31.420 But the point is, nobody is suggesting to China that there's anything wrong or immoral about them having basically a completely closed border.

01:01:39.980 But yet the U.S. is expected to let in millions of illegals every single year or we're basically committing a crime against humanity. 0.91

01:01:48.740 So to call it a double standard is just to drastically understate the case.

01:01:54.180 I mean, it's just it's incredibly insulting, demeaning.

01:01:58.560 It's it's yeah, I mean, it's just it's terrible all the way around.

01:02:03.060 Progressive publications do have to run that piece for Japan every like twice a year, though, right?

01:02:07.200 Like, yeah, for some reason, Japan does have to open its borders like that.

01:02:11.000 Yeah, at least a little bit.

01:02:12.200 But even when they do, right, it's only two kind of similarly aligned Asian countries for the most part.

01:02:18.820 And in fact, I just saw there were like some Kurds in Japan causing some riot and everybody was sort of freaking out about it.

01:02:26.520 And they have in general a very low threshold, as they appropriately should.

01:02:31.340 I'm not criticizing them for public disorder and they'll just kick you out.

01:02:35.700 And I totally support that.

01:02:38.860 And I wish we were we were doing the same thing here.

01:02:41.920 I mean, I would love El Salvador level governance in America, let alone Japan level governance, as opposed to what we have here, which is pretty much slow motion, total state failure.

01:02:52.200 Yeah.

01:02:52.800 Isn't that fantastic when you're when you're wishing for the competence of the El Salvadorian government and your first world country?

01:02:59.000 Yeah.

01:02:59.240 Japan, keep the keep the immigration policy. 1.00

01:03:01.160 Just start having sex, guys. 1.00

01:03:02.440 All right. 1.00

01:03:03.300 Tiny Rick again says, Jeremy, you're spot on.

01:03:06.380 I just learned about these ideas from Shelby Steele.

01:03:08.780 Extremely refreshing.

01:03:09.900 Do you see someone that looks like me articulating them pro-white does not mean equate to anti-black?

01:03:16.540 Absolutely.

01:03:17.300 And Shelby was actually a colleague of mine at my previous gig at the Hoover Institution, although I only had to interact with them a few times.

01:03:24.440 But a terrific guy who spoke about this, these sorts of issues very bluntly.

01:03:30.480 And I do kind of want to note, I mean, I think I don't know how Shelby would would really categorize himself.

01:03:36.520 I think probably as a conservative.

01:03:38.000 But but African-American conservatives in particular, they really do sort of get the worst from all areas. 0.97

01:03:45.440 And at the same time, there's some of this patronizing, oh, we're going to put you in front sort of thing that does go on.

01:03:51.780 But but the treatment that they often get from the African-American community, and this is true of pretty much all minority conservatives to varying degrees, can often be really, really brutal.

01:04:02.700 So I'm sympathetic.

01:04:03.620 But yes, I think it's it's important that it's not just Shelby Steele should not be the only person who has the permission to talk about these issues.

01:04:12.800 We need to talk about them themselves, ourselves.

01:04:15.440 We need to not apologize for talking about them.

01:04:18.360 And we need to not apologize for demanding at least equal treatment, hopefully, for a country that was founded by many of our ancestors.

01:04:28.440 Yeah, that's just bottom line.

01:04:30.140 Absolutely.

01:04:31.040 All right, guys.

01:04:31.800 Well, thank you so much for watching, Jeremy.

01:04:34.400 Thank you so much for coming on.

01:04:35.920 I think it was a great discussion.

01:04:38.020 Always a pleasure talking to you guys.

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01:05:07.620 Thank you for watching, guys.

01:05:08.560 And as always, I'll talk to you next time.

01:05:10.740 I'll talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - February 21, 2024

White Men Are Quiet Quitting ｜ Guest： Jeremy Carl ｜ 2⧸21⧸24

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