The Auron MacIntyre Show - Why Stephen Colbert's Late Show Failed ｜ Guest： Wade Stotts ｜ 7⧸23⧸25

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody. How's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy. Before we get started, I just want to remind you that if you want to support this show and everything we're doing here, you can head over to blazetv.com slash Oren and use the promo code Oren to get $20 off your subscription to blazetv plus.

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00:00:45.340 So Stephen Colbert has now been, well, fired and the late show has been entirely shut down. A lot of people are acting surprised about this. The left is acting like this is some huge scandal. How could this occur? It's got to be political. Donald Trump must have ordered the end of the late show.

00:01:04.840 But I have this weird theory that Stephen Colbert just hasn't been funny for a very long time and that the pressures of the internet age are just slowly eroding the interest in any kind of late show for any kind of comedy late show on major networks. Joining me today to talk about that is one of the funniest men on the internet. Wade Stotts, thank you so much for coming on.

00:01:29.540 Oren, thank you for having me.

00:01:31.720 Of course. Now, everyone is asking, and I think it's fair for them to say, when is Wade Stotts taking over the slot? When is it the late show with Wade Stotts? How are we going to resurrect this? Because I think this absolutely has to happen.

00:01:45.180 Well, I assume that by the time May rolls around that the Ed Sullivan Theater is just going to either be a museum to television, like we have to explain to people what television used to be. So before that, I might be able to take over and at least put on a show there a little bit.

00:01:59.140 But while everybody's still moving stuff out, who knows?

00:02:02.680 So I guess we should start at the beginning with where Stephen Colbert came from, maybe give a little background for his career. I know I'm older than you, but The Daily Show really hit right when I was becoming more politically aware, right?

00:02:18.780 It had started with Craig Kilbourne, but Jon Stewart really picked up the momentum.

00:02:23.700 And I distinctly remember when the Bush and Gore election came around, they had quite the hot streak.

00:02:32.040 I remember laughing. They had one scene where I think it was Al Gore had to bring his case before the Justice League, and then George Bush referred it to the Legion of Doom.

00:02:45.500 And they did a whole thing where these two forces from the—and this was before the comic book boom.

00:02:51.660 So this was like they were using the 70s cartoons as the B-roll as they were doing these jokes.

00:02:57.020 So it really hit me right at this time.

00:03:00.440 And Colbert is obviously coming out of this, right?

00:03:03.200 He's one of the breakout stars of The Daily Show, one of their reporters that does the different segments.

00:03:09.060 Jon Oliver, I think, would have been the other big talent at that time that was very noticeable.

00:03:13.660 And this was a little shift away from what late night had been.

00:03:18.880 It was a very different format.

00:03:19.980 We had had late night television doing comedy, and there had been politics.

00:03:24.320 Of course, they had made political jokes.

00:03:26.320 But the idea that there was a program constantly dedicated to the news of the day,

00:03:30.740 and this is where a lot of people my age at that time were getting all of their news.

00:03:35.820 So nothing much has changed at this point, really.

00:03:38.960 But it was the first, I think, big shift into this edutainment comedy paradigm that we now see as very common in the last few generations.

00:03:53.560 What do you think it was about the shift during that time that led to this being a dominant form of comedy?

00:04:00.080 Yeah, one name you didn't mention in there about the people who broke out of that era was Steve Carell.

00:04:06.620 So it's not inevitable that everybody there becomes this sort of shrill, you know, weirdo.

00:04:12.640 Yeah, Samantha Bee type, you know. 0.58

00:04:14.180 Right, exactly.

00:04:14.980 Yeah, but it was – so anyway, but the people who were there at the time, yeah, there was definitely a shift there.

00:04:20.600 And it was – at some level, they felt that the work they were doing was important.

00:04:25.080 Somewhere along the line, they felt that what they were doing was impacting people.

00:04:29.660 Somebody probably told them, like, hey, so-and-so watches your show.

00:04:32.120 So-and-so loves it.

00:04:33.240 The president wants to be on.

00:04:34.700 This senator wants to be on.

00:04:36.680 And that shifts everything.

00:04:38.380 I mean, it's the nature of a late-night show that because you have to do fresh comedy every night,

00:04:43.300 that it's going to be dependent on what's happening that day because you can't just come up with new sort of observations about doing laundry every night.

00:04:50.580 So it becomes – topical is kind of necessary, but there was a – as, like, politics generally has shifted up in terms of, like, in hostility between the two tribes,

00:05:03.280 that, you know, definitely showed itself in late-night.

00:05:07.520 So late-night used to be able to kind of appeal to the general sort of liberal American consensus,

00:05:13.580 and I think that John Stewart still sees himself that way.

00:05:17.020 I think Colbert still sees himself that way.

00:05:18.460 I'm just talking to what normal people think, but it certainly isn't that.

00:05:24.240 And the fact that they've turned – enough Americans have turned off to where it's losing as much money as it is shows that they're still operating with a very old paradigm for what their audience is.

00:05:35.760 So what do you think about – it was good that you pointed out, yeah, that Steve Carell was someone who didn't necessarily fall into this,

00:05:45.140 but it was very clear that the effort was to spawn, you know, different versions of The Daily Show.

00:05:52.320 Obviously, Oliver went over to HBO and had his own.

00:05:54.980 And Colbert became this, like, constant riff on Bill O'Reilly.

00:05:59.400 He had done this character on the show, and he just turned it into an extended bit that gave it, you know,

00:06:05.440 basically an entire career for a good amount of time.

00:06:09.620 And so Samantha Bee, all these others, eventually Stewart gets replaced.

00:06:15.420 But it was very clear that, you know, a lot of people thought that this was kind of the future of comedy to some extent.

00:06:21.760 And you watch someone like Colbert get picked for The Late Show, which obviously is one of the, you know, all-time long-running comedy shows.

00:06:32.520 David Letterman, you know, you've got the war that was always going on between Letterman and Leno.

00:06:38.620 And then, you know, Jimmy Kimmel gets added to this mix, and Jimmy Fallon follows.

00:06:46.600 What do you think about Colbert moving into Late Night at all?

00:06:50.320 Was that ever something he had the skill set to do?

00:06:53.380 Was it an awkward fit?

00:06:55.160 He just got in because he had been popular as this character?

00:06:59.740 Or was that something he had the natural talent for, but just got overly political or cringy about it?

00:07:06.340 Yeah, I automatically put myself in the place of CBS at the time.

00:07:11.720 So when CBS is searching around, what they did was, The Late Show itself was basically a benefits package that they set up for David Letterman in 1993.

00:07:22.280 So in 1993, they're trying to get Letterman from NBC to come over to CBS.

00:07:27.940 And so they go, hey, what's the most attractive offer we can make him?

00:07:30.800 He's going to be in the Ed Sullivan Theater, and we're going to rebuild it for him.

00:07:34.040 We're going to give him more money than anybody else has in Late Night.

00:07:37.300 It's just this, like, incredible sweetheart deal.

00:07:41.100 And it was worth it to them at the time.

00:07:42.980 But then, 30 years, 24 years, I think he was at that show, 24 years goes on, and they have to hand that benefits package.

00:07:51.980 Like, imagine it's like the company car is a Bugatti, right?

00:07:54.740 So they got a Bugatti to give the company car to David Letterman, and then they have to, that guy retires, and so you have to hand that Bugatti off to somebody else.

00:08:03.200 So this huge Ed Sullivan Theater, the benefits, like, the pay more money than anybody, CBS has to hand that off to somebody.

00:08:09.520 Who do they hand it off to?

00:08:10.820 And that's a really strange position for them to be in.

00:08:13.960 Does Colbert have the talent?

00:08:15.880 I think that was an open question at the time.

00:08:17.620 I think a lot of people were saying, like, this guy has been playing a character.

00:08:20.980 Everything he does is through one comedy filter with all the jokes being added on top of that.

00:08:27.080 So is he funny on his own?

00:08:28.760 Can sincere Colbert stand up to a nightly show an hour?

00:08:35.080 Because he used to do it a half hour over on Comedy Central.

00:08:37.100 So twice as long every single night, and he can't hide behind the character.

00:08:43.520 It was an open question at the time, and I think that it didn't take 10 years for the world to realize it.

00:08:48.760 I think it just took 10 years for the money to run out and for everybody to be able to say out loud, oh, this experiment didn't quite work out.

00:08:56.980 Now, I'm much more of a casual consumer of comedy.

00:09:01.720 You're somebody who has thought about how to write jokes, obviously do your own comedy program.

00:09:07.880 And so this is something that you've broken down a little more than the average person.

00:09:12.140 When I think back to late night comedy, I think of it as a little bit of a rite of passage for late high school, early college kids.

00:09:26.260 There's like this moment where you want to start exploring comedy, stand-up comedy, these things.

00:09:33.320 And you want things that are a little more topical, as you say, that kind of thing.

00:09:37.100 You can stay up later.

00:09:38.360 Being able to stay up later as a young person is a big shift for you at that time.

00:09:44.860 So you can start catching some of these programs and for the first time, that kind of thing.

00:09:50.240 But I start to look at this stuff.

00:09:52.560 And I didn't watch a ton of Letterman and Leno, but when I did, I was never knocked down by how funny they were.

00:10:02.940 And that makes sense.

00:10:03.820 You've got to do this day in, day out.

00:10:05.680 Not everything's going to land.

00:10:07.520 You've got to fill a lot of airtime.

00:10:09.080 And it's a lot of, hey, how do we get another ridiculous interview on the street on Thursday to fill 10 minutes?

00:10:15.920 But I did feel like it was funnier.

00:10:19.320 It was funnier than a lot of what's being put out by Kimmel and Colbert.

00:10:23.660 I don't know if you saw that Kimmel, or sorry, what was it?

00:10:27.720 Jimmy Fallon doing the jorts thing.

00:10:30.520 And the whole joke is just that they cut pants at the knees in the 90s.

00:10:36.100 Like, that's it.

00:10:36.680 There's nothing else in there.

00:10:38.780 And so I just think about this.

00:10:41.200 I'm like, am I just being an old man?

00:10:43.060 Am I just shaking my fist at this guy?

00:10:44.620 Back in my day, comedians were funny.

00:10:47.420 Or is it really, has the quality actually gone down?

00:10:51.060 Yeah.

00:10:51.380 What you mentioned about staying up late, another piece of that is that on television, you can't do really edgy stuff until late at night.

00:10:59.200 So once the local news, the late local news goes off, then people were able to push a little more edgy.

00:11:05.680 So in the Johnny Carson era, there was a lot of innuendo.

00:11:08.360 But now people don't have to stay up late to see the most disgusting, perverse stuff in the world.

00:11:14.960 And you can just watch that anytime that you want.

00:11:17.700 So if people have an appetite for that, it gets sated elsewhere.

00:11:21.100 And so it's like TV 14.

00:11:23.260 Ooh, you have to stay up past the late local news to watch that on network television.

00:11:28.120 So that's, that's another piece.

00:11:30.320 And our relationship with edgy content is way different than it used to be.

00:11:35.280 And, you know, they could get away with more on cable with, with Stuart and Colbert and stuff like that.

00:11:40.520 But yeah, we don't have to wait for stuff like that as much if it's not on, if the jokes aren't already on Twitter.

00:11:45.820 But there's also our changing relationship with celebrity.

00:11:48.440 The mention, you, you mentioned the, uh, Jorts sketch.

00:11:51.680 And from what I can tell the, yes, the, yes, the joke was about like, aren't Jorts a funny thing that exists, I guess.

00:11:57.780 I guess that was the premise.

00:11:58.820 But the, the actual thing that was supposed to elicit the laughs was how many celebrities they fit in one video.

00:12:04.740 Right.

00:12:05.160 So they got Jimmy Fallon.

00:12:06.240 Wow.

00:12:06.440 They got Will Ferrell.

00:12:07.400 Whoa.

00:12:07.740 They got Nick Jonas.

00:12:08.980 Oh my goodness.

00:12:09.740 And, and we're all supposed to feel just, uh, thrilled that these three celebrities are on our screen at the same time.

00:12:15.280 Um, and that's just not, we, we don't care about the celebrities anymore.

00:12:18.860 And if they're not making us laugh, then they're no good to us.

00:12:21.700 Um, so it's, it's the, the joke again, it gets lost on people who don't really care who Nick Jonas is.

00:12:29.140 It's, and so the last people that it does appeal to is sort of millennials and the millennial, uh, yeah, but the, the millennial ness of the whole comedy thing was, I think, especially illustrated.

00:12:40.180 We can talk about this later by the responses of, uh, Stuart and Colbert, uh, in their sort

00:12:46.640 of phony edginess.

00:12:48.100 Uh, but yeah, like I said, we'll talk about that later.

00:12:50.360 Well, I mean, let's just jump to it now.

00:12:52.120 So the, uh, so the response has been, uh, well, the funniest thing that any of these guys

00:12:58.100 have done in years and not intentionally.

00:13:00.180 So, you know, the outrage has come in the idea that this is a political move.

00:13:06.280 Like the reason that Stephen Colbert is being canceled is because he was just such an effective

00:13:12.780 critic of Donald Trump and he has to be cleared from the deck so that Donald Trump can continue

00:13:17.320 to be the autocrat that doesn't bother to put people in jail, even if they rig elections.

00:13:22.280 And so, uh, like, like this is the idea and I got to say it, like, I guess I understand

00:13:30.060 why they're doing that.

00:13:30.880 Cause what other explanation would be acceptable to them?

00:13:34.100 Like, there's no way that they're going to look themselves in the eye and been like,

00:13:37.020 I have been a relentless Hectoring schoolmarm for 10 years in a comedy show and no one cares

00:13:45.620 anymore because like, I am so wildly out of touch with the average person that I can't even

00:13:51.300 produce comedic material.

00:13:52.960 You, I mean, I don't know.

00:13:54.340 I I'm sure you remember this, but for 10 seconds, people thought that Jimmy Fallon might not

00:13:59.680 hate Donald Trump.

00:14:01.060 And that was like the end of the world, right?

00:14:02.960 It's not that he shilled for Donald Trump.

00:14:04.840 It's not that he said, I'm voting for Donald Trump.

00:14:06.660 I didn't say I support Donald Trump.

00:14:08.300 He didn't even say Trump is a nice guy.

00:14:09.680 He just didn't come out and scream at Donald Trump for being like the, you know, orange Hitler. 0.93

00:14:16.800 And that was just the end of the world, right? 0.99

00:14:19.000 Like there was one late night comedian that wasn't completely like a distraught shit lib 0.98

00:14:24.820 a hundred percent of the time. 0.98

00:14:26.180 And that meant that he had to be like destroyed.

00:14:28.720 And so Stephen Colbert did the exact opposite.

00:14:31.020 Obviously we, you know, we, for the thumbnail, we've got that insanely cringy facts skit that

00:14:36.340 he did and all of this.

00:14:37.460 And so the response has been that, oh no, the reason he's been knocked out of there is

00:14:42.980 his opposition to Trump, his tireless, deeply unfunny, you know, obsession with Donald Trump.

00:14:49.300 And so we had guys like Jon Stewart do sketch on whatever show he's doing somewhere where 0.84

00:14:55.500 he talks how much he hates about white people.

00:14:57.680 And, and he, like, I literally don't even know where to watch Jon Stewart. 0.50

00:15:01.840 I saw the clip on Twitter with like, what outside of Twitter, where would I even see this?

00:15:07.860 But he's like sitting there, like guiding a gospel choir through FUs because Stephen Colbert

00:15:14.420 got fired.

00:15:15.080 And you're right.

00:15:15.920 It's, it's so juvenile.

00:15:17.260 It's so, you know, it's like four years old.

00:15:19.240 Like, ah, I, I'm extremely edgy because I heard the F word somewhere.

00:15:23.380 And this is a serious response to some guy getting fired.

00:15:27.100 I don't know.

00:15:27.600 It's, it, it does seem insane. 0.98

00:15:29.480 Um, yeah, the, um, the, nobody in that situation stops to think like, maybe I suck.

00:15:36.060 Maybe I'm the worst, uh, uh, but they should, maybe they should take a second.

00:15:40.340 Uh, I doubt they will.

00:15:41.720 Um, but if they're watching, maybe they should just, yeah.

00:15:43.580 If, if Stephen Colbert has decided to click on this thumbnail, maybe take a second, maybe

00:15:47.740 just kind of, uh, evaluate a little bit.

00:15:50.100 Um, but yeah, the, the response they, they had, I think, uh, Colbert himself did a whole.

00:15:55.920 Um, like minute long set up to a joke that the punchline was just go F yourself, right?

00:16:01.560 Which is the exact same thing that he had that John Stewart had this gospel choir saying.

00:16:06.740 Um, and it was just, yeah, again, this juvenile thing.

00:16:09.300 Another thing that didn't get so widely publicized was that Colbert had on, uh, a, they did a

00:16:15.840 cold play reference, like the cold play affair reference thing.

00:16:19.060 And who else to come out and do the musical rep number for this failing show that appeals

00:16:24.980 to lib millennials than Lin-Manuel Miranda.

00:16:28.520 So Lin-Manuel Miranda comes out and he, uh, leads this bit where the whole joke is, Hey,

00:16:34.200 look at all of the late night hosts who are sitting out in the, in the crowd.

00:16:37.960 And isn't it fun that they're all in one shot?

00:16:40.500 Uh, and then, Oh, Trump, it's all Trump's fault.

00:16:43.220 Cause he got, yeah, the punchline is basically that they found Trump on a date with Paramount,

00:16:48.160 I guess anyway, it was, it was a convoluted mess, but the, the, uh, they didn't have to

00:16:53.260 necessarily make an argument.

00:16:54.280 They just had to, uh, make a terrible, terrible sketch with Lin-Manuel Miranda.

00:16:57.940 But yeah, like you've got all these guys, um, you know, John Stewart, Stephen Colbert,

00:17:02.240 they're sort of the young end of the boomers.

00:17:05.240 Um, and so they are making comedy that really defined the millennial relationship to comedy.

00:17:11.620 Um, and the millennials who are still like amazed that somebody said the F word on television,

00:17:18.160 whoa, and are amazed that Lin-Manuel Miranda is on my screen right now. 0.98

00:17:23.260 Holy crap. 0.88

00:17:24.280 Um, those are the only people who care right now. 0.95

00:17:26.940 And I, I doubt that, and the sort of 18 people who, uh, protested outside of his studio, which

00:17:33.440 we haven't even talked about yet.

00:17:34.340 The signs outside had like, uh, Trump hovering, like a semi-transparent Trump hovering behind

00:17:40.340 Colbert.

00:17:40.720 Um, these sort of like the, the kind of people who you see it, like running your local library,

00:17:45.540 we're all protesting, uh, Colbert's cancellation because Trump did it.

00:17:49.620 Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know who it's, who it appeals to other than themselves.

00:17:52.940 And everybody gets to sort of, uh, pat each other on the back.

00:17:55.940 Uh, it's, it's a bizarre thing, but the, and the number that we haven't brought up yet

00:17:59.860 was that, that's reported that Colbert has been losing the network 40 to $50 million per

00:18:05.920 year, uh, which is around the same amount that the entire WNBA has been losing every 0.87

00:18:12.100 single year.

00:18:12.880 Uh, and we got, and of course the parallels of the, uh, WNBA people wearing their pay us

00:18:18.200 what you owe us shirts happened to the same week that Colbert comes out and just says,

00:18:22.160 Oh, I, I deserve to be propped up by, I don't, I don't know what, what's make, what is making

00:18:27.020 CBS money right now?

00:18:28.180 I mean, is it like the FBI series that they put out?

00:18:30.440 I was going to say it's, it's, yeah.

00:18:31.900 Uh, uh, CSI Miami, nine, 9,000, 20, you know, whatever, you know, CSI Honolulu, you know,

00:18:39.400 whatever.

00:18:39.940 Yes.

00:18:40.400 Yeah.

00:18:40.680 So like big, big brother and the price is right are going to like support Stephen Colbert until

00:18:46.440 he, you know, draws his dying breath on stage at the Ed Sullivan theater.

00:18:49.960 It's just not like he, he doesn't, he thinks that that's owed to him.

00:18:53.520 Uh, but it's, yeah, it's bizarre.

00:18:55.060 And, and people treating him as some kind of crazy victim is hilarious to me, but the,

00:18:59.840 but the fact that he is so self-serious about it totally undermines everything that he's

00:19:04.820 ever done.

00:19:05.660 So like he played this blowhard character on comedy central who thought he was the most

00:19:10.320 important thing in the world and everything he said was deserved to be listened to.

00:19:14.400 Um, and now he's become that guy, but from the liberal angle, you see that also in the

00:19:19.020 way, so the, the, the news media and the way people are reflecting on it, they're not

00:19:23.080 reflecting on it in the same way.

00:19:24.520 Like when Don Rickles died, like the, the great comedy or like Bob Newhart died, these

00:19:29.380 great comedy heroes, they play clips from their sitcoms or from their great roasts.

00:19:33.040 These amazing things.

00:19:34.060 When CNN is paying tribute to the body of work of Stephen Colbert, they just play a, like

00:19:40.560 a montage of him saying like Trump is a fascist and saying that nobody wants to admit

00:19:45.380 that Russia stole the election and it's like all the same stuff that they've been saying.

00:19:49.100 So like, Oh, Stephen Colbert must be losing his television show for saying the same thing

00:19:53.420 that every other television show is saying.

00:19:55.780 Um, it's, it's a very strange thing.

00:19:57.620 And again, they don't treat him like an entertainer.

00:19:59.800 Uh, they treat him like one of them, one of the, one of the serious news people.

00:20:04.120 Um, but yeah, and another, another angle on this also is that Colbert, because he's doing

00:20:09.320 a quote unquote comedy show, he can say all the things that they're secretly thinking.

00:20:13.360 A lot of people have pointed this out, but the fact that they didn't have any real evidence

00:20:17.640 about the Trump P tape or whatever, the, the Russia P tape, Colbert could just do a thousand

00:20:22.740 jokes about it and people absorbed it as if it was reported as if there was evidence for

00:20:28.100 it.

00:20:28.560 Um, and so Colbert got to be their sort of id every night at 1130 and they, they lost an

00:20:35.800 asset for themselves.

00:20:36.840 So the media lost an asset in this.

00:20:38.800 And I think that's something worth celebrating.

00:20:40.320 Uh, of course, any journalist who's sad is a win for us, obviously journal, uh, journalistic

00:20:47.260 tears are the sweetest of all.

00:20:48.660 Um, but, uh, remember guys, uh, you know, Twitter's for harassing journalists and credentialed

00:20:53.980 college professors.

00:20:54.940 That's if you're on there, that's what it's for.

00:20:57.080 Um, but, uh, uh, it is interesting and I, I do like your comparison.

00:21:01.380 Basically Colbert is a MSNBC host with a studio audience who's contractually required to laugh

00:21:07.640 when they flash the sign, right?

00:21:09.520 Like that's, that's basically all there is.

00:21:12.080 That's it's, it's, uh, he's not even saying the things they can't say cause they're all

00:21:15.940 insane and say them anyway.

00:21:17.180 Right.

00:21:17.740 So it's really, but yeah, I guess he gets to take it slightly another step further.

00:21:21.860 I guess we should also say for those who aren't familiar, one of the reasons that this like

00:21:26.240 conspiracy theory to, to, to, uh, uh, cancel, uh, Colbert because of Trump, one of the reasons

00:21:32.660 this has come up is that, uh, paramount is merging with skydance media, uh, in this big,

00:21:39.760 like $8 billion, uh, merger.

00:21:42.100 Uh, and so the government has to approve this.

00:21:44.800 And so the, the, the, the theory is, and I guess CBS has also settled a case with Trump

00:21:49.760 from, uh, from previously.

00:21:52.000 Uh, and so the idea is they're like paving the way, you know, they're getting rid of Stephen

00:21:56.120 Colbert and they're, you know, they're settling this lawsuit so that they can get their merger

00:22:00.380 approved because otherwise Donald Trump will, uh, put the thumb on the scale because, you

00:22:05.040 know, corporate corporations are well known for trying to appease Donald Trump.

00:22:09.280 That's really been their, you know, their focus for the last eight to 10 years.

00:22:13.540 Uh, but, um, do you, do you think there's any, uh, possibility that that's the case?

00:22:19.100 Do you, I mean, as you point out losing $40 million a year, being the WNBA of comedy,

00:22:25.120 uh, really is an impressive feat.

00:22:27.880 Um, I think the fiscal, you know, uh, and, and we can get into also just the comedy landscape

00:22:33.280 changing all that makes far more sense.

00:22:35.620 But do you think there's any truth to the fact that the merger, uh, is a serious one

00:22:39.360 and that they're worried about the Trump administration?

00:22:41.840 Well, I would think so if people actually hinged more on the argument for it.

00:22:47.860 So when, when Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert talks about this, when any of the people talk

00:22:52.700 about why, oh, that's the real reason why they'll spend like three sentences on it, like

00:22:56.600 in the same way that you just did.

00:22:58.080 And then the rest of the segment, they'll just assume that.

00:23:00.700 Um, so they're, they're not trying to really dig into this and make it, there's, it's all

00:23:04.340 speculation.

00:23:04.920 It's all back there.

00:23:06.260 If there is something to it, then I think it's the fact that they had to pay $16 million

00:23:10.720 to Trump because he did sue CBS over this, uh, 60 minutes thing.

00:23:16.440 Um, so they paid Trump $60 million, 16, excuse me, $16 million, uh, over, over the 60 minutes,

00:23:24.120 like libel suit or something.

00:23:25.240 I don't remember exactly, but if they had to do that and then realized, oh, well, we

00:23:30.140 aren't in a good financial position to be able to do that, uh, because we're losing 40

00:23:34.880 to $50 million a year, then yeah, maybe, maybe there is something to it, but it's not because

00:23:39.780 Trump made a call.

00:23:40.680 It's because again, they can't make the balance sheet work.

00:23:43.480 Uh, again, I don't feel sorry for the, uh, the people at the paramount company, but at

00:23:48.740 some level, the, the, the math, they have to make the math work somehow.

00:23:52.080 And if they have to cancel Colbert in order to pay Trump, the 16 million that they legally

00:23:58.120 owe him now, uh, maybe, maybe that's, if it is a piece, then that's the piece.

00:24:04.080 So I guess we should probably look at the changing nature of the media landscape and, you know,

00:24:11.000 obviously Colbert just blew chunks.

00:24:12.980 He was terrible.

00:24:13.520 He's, he's an embarrassment, but it, in, you know, I will say this though, if, if he went 0.94

00:24:18.800 on every night and just threw up, it would probably be more funny. 0.85

00:24:21.520 I would probably enjoy that just every single night he had a bucket and he just, yeah, just,

00:24:25.520 yeah, I would watch that a solid hour of comedy, or at least an improvement over what we're

00:24:29.900 getting, uh, as, as a comedy product instead of Lin-Manuel Miranda.

00:24:33.440 Yeah.

00:24:33.840 Yeah.

00:24:34.540 I mean, it will make you vomit like, um, I, I was doing this.

00:24:39.200 Yeah.

00:24:39.620 Right.

00:24:39.920 Yeah.

00:24:40.380 But, uh, ultimately, uh, you know, the, the big thing that has changed and it's hitting

00:24:45.360 everybody is just the way that media works, right?

00:24:48.020 It used to be, and you already pointed this out to some extent, the, the, one of the reasons

00:24:52.340 that Hollywood really held sway over the, uh, American imagination, the, the reason that

00:24:58.560 the media and the TV networks and these things really captivated people was that we were a

00:25:04.440 country that for the first time, I think after world war II were really actually galvanized

00:25:10.620 as a, uh, as a culture across the entire nation by mass media, right?

00:25:16.120 You, you couldn't have gone from California to Vermont, to Texas, to Florida, to Georgia,

00:25:22.840 but all of you were watching the same three television shows, listening to the same radio,

00:25:28.540 watching the same movies.

00:25:29.560 And so celebrity really became the American version of like the elite court, right?

00:25:35.560 Like the, like the Kingly court, like you said, the, the, simply the fact that, uh,

00:25:40.620 people had other celebrities on their show was just spellbinding to people.

00:25:45.740 You know, the fact that you could just, uh, watch a couple of these crooners, you know,

00:25:50.340 walk onto the set with each other and start to, you know, uh, do, you know, uh, I don't

00:25:54.500 know why I can't remember suddenly any of their names, but like being, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:25:58.460 Thank you.

00:25:58.780 Dean Martin was the one I was trying to, I was trying to get ahold of, but the fact that it's

00:26:02.000 a Dean Martin show, what do you do on the Dean Martin show?

00:26:03.860 I kind of get a little drunk and talk to other celebrities and then we break into song randomly,

00:26:07.920 right?

00:26:08.580 Like that was a whole format and like people were captivated.

00:26:11.620 They loved this stuff.

00:26:13.000 Uh, you know, you, you, my grandparents would talk about it endlessly, right?

00:26:16.440 Like this was, this was what kind of bound culture together.

00:26:19.820 And so the simple appearance of these people was a huge deal.

00:26:23.720 And also, as you say, we had these rhythms of media consumption.

00:26:28.000 There were certain restrictions on what you could watch, when you could watch it, when

00:26:31.440 it could be on.

00:26:32.340 So the fact that there was a specific time for people to watch this type of content simultaneously

00:26:37.820 set the clock for a lot of people in a way, ordered their day in a certain way, none of

00:26:43.240 that exists anymore.

00:26:44.180 Everything is immediately available.

00:26:46.200 Like you said, you're, you know, you're far more likely to see, uh, the jokes on Twitter

00:26:50.660 or on YouTube or somewhere else than you are actually watching them on the show themselves.

00:26:55.680 And you can watch any kind of blue comedy you want at any time.

00:26:59.380 Uh, it, it doesn't matter.

00:27:00.820 And so this just, this, uh, disintermediation of entertainment where like anyone can make

00:27:07.200 a comedy sketch, a guy in, I don't know, his bunker, uh, could make a whole comedy show

00:27:11.860 and be, and, and garner more views, honestly, uh, at certain times than these large networks.

00:27:18.040 It just completely blows up the format.

00:27:20.120 And so this thing that was thought of as like a, uh, rock solid institution by our parents

00:27:25.580 and grandparents, it, it just has no, no ability to continue in the modern day.

00:27:31.100 I would think.

00:27:32.260 Yeah.

00:27:32.900 The, there's this sort of unassumed status of if something lasted throughout the 20th

00:27:39.380 century, that it's permanent now.

00:27:41.040 So if, if it got to 2000, then CBS will always exist and television will always exist.

00:27:46.760 Uh, but we, we are finding out that that's not the case.

00:27:49.160 And you're, we're in a time again, where like people who've had institutional backing, um,

00:27:55.380 several of them have already had to step out or have decided to step into that more of the

00:28:00.280 wild west of entertainment.

00:28:01.920 So like, I mean, I, I guess I could think of entertainment folks, but like, uh, Seth Meyers

00:28:06.480 has a nightly show on 12 at 1230 on NBC.

00:28:10.060 He's been doing that show for 11 years at this point.

00:28:13.220 And he has a podcast with his brother and they get like fewer views than your channel.

00:28:18.560 So, or like, honestly, I just, until you mentioned him, I completely forgot he existed.

00:28:23.600 Like I was thinking of the big, okay.

00:28:25.240 Who are the late night guys?

00:28:26.340 It's, it's Kimmel and it's Colbert and it's good.

00:28:29.160 I completely forgot.

00:28:30.440 He even had a show.

00:28:31.340 Yes.

00:28:31.820 So Seth Meyers and Seth Meyers is another interesting case.

00:28:34.020 Cause he had to fire his band because they couldn't afford to keep paying the band.

00:28:39.120 Uh, and also, which is, you know, is bad.

00:28:42.060 Cause they were probably working for like one small bag of cocaine, right?

00:28:45.260 Like, yeah, right.

00:28:46.460 Yeah.

00:28:46.960 Yeah.

00:28:47.160 The band.

00:28:47.820 Yeah, exactly.

00:28:48.600 But, and, and then, uh, over, over on, uh, Fallon show, which is in the same building,

00:28:53.140 they just recently went from five days a week to four days a week.

00:28:56.260 Uh, and so they do a rerun on Fridays.

00:28:58.220 And so everybody's scaling down right now.

00:29:00.600 And so to, for, for like them to say that, Oh, Colbert, there's no, there's nothing financial

00:29:05.560 about this when NBC is like bleeding money, apparently to where they can't even pay the

00:29:09.300 band.

00:29:10.000 Uh, that's, that's bad news for everybody.

00:29:12.720 Um, yeah, it's the, the, the media consumption thing you have.

00:29:17.060 And another, another example is, uh, I I'm forgetting his name, which is bad, but one of

00:29:22.340 the guys who hosts the daily show when, uh, not surprising that I forgot his name, Michael

00:29:27.060 Costa, Michael Costa is his name.

00:29:28.740 He hosts the daily show on like Tuesdays or something.

00:29:31.340 And he has a podcast and he is like lucky to break a thousand views on his podcast.

00:29:36.980 Um, and so this institutional power, we're now seeing how much of somebody's platform

00:29:41.600 comes from just being in with the institution and others with like people, people actually

00:29:47.600 being loyal to him.

00:29:49.360 Um, but that, that's the entertainment side, but because Colbert is this sort of mainly

00:29:54.100 political figure, um, I don't think that he's going to have a Tucker moment, you know,

00:29:58.700 like I w I went on your show the day Tucker got fired and we talked about like, Hey, you

00:30:03.360 know, I think people will follow him.

00:30:04.840 What's he going to do next?

00:30:05.700 And it was, we were all speculating, but we were, we were assuming he's going to be

00:30:08.700 fine.

00:30:09.120 And he's not, he's definitely not diminished as a cultural figure, um, in, in since being

00:30:14.380 fired from Fox.

00:30:15.240 Um, but, um, you also have people like Joy Reed and you have people like, uh, Don Lemon.

00:30:21.380 So like, I, my, my assumption is that Colbert, if, as he figures out what to do next, he's

00:30:28.140 going to have much more of a Don Lemon style arc, uh, which would be fascinating to me.

00:30:32.240 I would, I would love to watch the, the Don Lemonization of Stephen Colbert.

00:30:36.500 Well, and it's very interesting because, uh, obviously before you were doing what you're

00:30:43.420 doing now, you worked, uh, in political comedy, uh, you know, in, in, in a very real way.

00:30:49.320 Um, Stephen Crowder, you know, a lot of these guys broke out, uh, obviously we're talking

00:30:54.680 on the blaze right now, which is its own, uh, you know, completely, uh, removed from the

00:31:00.300 mainstream, uh, TV system, you know, network system, uh, form of political commentary.

00:31:05.960 Everybody and their mother has a podcast at this point, YouTube, all these channels, you

00:31:10.520 know, the, the, the political space has been so thoroughly shaken up because the media

00:31:16.360 lost control.

00:31:17.420 You know, these, you know, it's not just Fox news versus CNNs, uh, versus, you know, all

00:31:23.680 these 24 hour news networks, you, you can do your own thing.

00:31:27.780 You can get way better, uh, numbers often going out and striking on your own.

00:31:32.220 So is, there is this weird dichotomy that exists because at one point, uh, you know, both

00:31:37.380 in television and in music and in comedy, all these things, the studio system was the

00:31:43.280 key, right?

00:31:43.820 As you say, you know, it started out where some people could get famous on their own,

00:31:47.980 but then it became, well, you need to plug into the system and they will develop you.

00:31:51.560 And they're the ones who are going to get you connections and all these things.

00:31:54.500 And you're nothing without the studio.

00:31:56.140 You're nothing without, uh, you know, the recording, uh, contract, you're nothing without

00:32:00.520 these things.

00:32:01.140 Now, all of the stuff is back in the hands of creators in a way it's just never been before

00:32:06.360 and developing your own voice, developing your own audience to go with you is the key.

00:32:12.060 Wherever you go, whether you're, you're, whether you're Tucker on Fox or you're Tucker on your

00:32:16.520 own network, you know, you're, you develop enough of a following so that you are not completely

00:32:20.940 dependent on this delivery mechanism as where, you know, some of these lesser talents, as

00:32:25.200 you point out the minute they're, you know, they're, they don't have this vehicle to prop

00:32:29.660 them up.

00:32:29.980 They're completely irrelevant because it's very clear that they're only there because

00:32:33.340 they were groomed into this particular form of success.

00:32:36.860 And so it's not just comedy that's experiencing this.

00:32:40.480 It's every form of media, the, the, the, the star making power, the cohesive narratives,

00:32:45.620 the centralized, uh, cultural understanding that used to just come down this tree trunk of

00:32:51.660 American media no longer exists across the board.

00:32:55.020 And so these guys who grew up idolizing, uh, you know, a letterman or a Leno or, you know,

00:33:02.560 someone like that and seeing themselves in that role, as you say, you know, I should, I

00:33:07.380 should die with a pension and a gold watch after working 40 years in a factory, right?

00:33:11.880 Like it's kind of the same mentality and not recognizing that all of this has changed.

00:33:17.360 All of this is up in the air.

00:33:18.620 Uh, and like, no matter how much you scream about your political persecution, uh, people

00:33:23.780 are just going to notice that you are just not performing the way someone else is.

00:33:27.900 Yeah.

00:33:28.420 It is hard for people to, uh, adjust to the fact that they wrote a system all the way to

00:33:33.420 the top, right?

00:33:34.060 So Colbert, Colbert has written this system all the way to the top.

00:33:37.840 And now because he's quote, number one in late night, he thinks that he's indestructible,

00:33:43.980 but being number one in late night is totally compatible with losing the network, $50 million.

00:33:48.960 So saying you're like, it's saying that, Hey, I'm, I'm, Hey, maybe I'm poor, but I'm richer

00:33:54.380 than that guy.

00:33:55.140 It doesn't change your bank balance.

00:33:56.720 It just, you're just comparing things.

00:33:58.260 So, and that's, that's actually been his argument.

00:34:01.220 There's like, said, like, it's crazy.

00:34:02.940 Oh, but he's number one.

00:34:03.860 How could he be losing money?

00:34:05.340 Like, well, you're all losing money. 0.99

00:34:07.200 You all stink. 0.95

00:34:08.220 Um, and yeah, no people who have written that system can, can maybe hold on and assume 0.98

00:34:14.160 that they might be the last ones.

00:34:16.140 Uh, but I don't know if, uh, imagine talking to somebody who is working at the New York

00:34:21.040 times and just like, I watched an Ezra Klein interview.

00:34:24.420 He works, works at the New York times.

00:34:26.180 And he talked about like, you know, Hey, if I write a piece, then like the New York times

00:34:30.700 is going to be fine.

00:34:31.260 It's been going for however many years.

00:34:33.140 And it's like, well, uh, if, if he writes a bad piece that doesn't get read, who cares?

00:34:36.760 The New York times, he assumes we'll just go on forever.

00:34:39.540 It's just this inevitable, uh, piece of, it's like the structure of the universe now

00:34:43.280 includes the New York times.

00:34:44.480 Um, but, but yeah, not, not so.

00:34:47.140 And there actually is something to getting to people and that people have an appetite

00:34:53.220 for, uh, other human beings and not just, they don't just love institutions in the same

00:34:58.540 way, uh, that they may have been, I don't, I don't know anybody who's like loyal to CBS,

00:35:02.160 but there there's there, if people, if CBS is a delivery mechanism for people, or if, uh,

00:35:08.500 any network or any group of people is a delivery network from one person to another person,

00:35:13.340 that's the value.

00:35:14.440 The value is people to people, uh, and the institutions come and go.

00:35:19.260 Do you think that this will lead to a domino effect?

00:35:22.020 Are the other networks going to reevaluate their current investments in late night?

00:35:26.680 Because part of this really is the network wars, right?

00:35:30.240 It was the idea that, well, if one network has this programming block, we need something

00:35:34.900 that can stand up to it, compete with it, uh, in some way.

00:35:38.460 And so there, it does seem to be an effect where if you no longer have to fight for that

00:35:44.080 space, when, you know, one, uh, studio or one, uh, uh, network says, you know what, maybe

00:35:50.480 we, this is just not something worth investing anymore.

00:35:53.700 Uh, then the other studios are going to look at and say, well, actually we're not getting

00:35:58.240 great numbers on this either.

00:35:59.520 Uh, maybe we don't need to prop this up just because it's a legacy institution.

00:36:03.000 Do you think that, uh, guys like Kimmel and Fallon could be on the chopping block?

00:36:07.380 I know you said they're already scaling back, but do you see a further, uh, reevaluation

00:36:12.120 of these different networks about why, why even keep these programs on at this point?

00:36:16.840 Yeah.

00:36:17.220 I assume that like NBC and ABC are both are, have been in this sort of keeping up with

00:36:22.000 the Joneses kind of race with Colbert.

00:36:24.600 So they've seen the Jones, like Colbert as the Joneses.

00:36:27.720 We've got to make sure that we have everything that they have.

00:36:29.440 Uh, it's a shame we had to fire the band or, uh, it's a shame we had to go to four nights

00:36:32.360 a week, but I mean, we got to keep up because apparently they're doing fine.

00:36:35.800 Uh, but it's like when, when Mr. Jones goes to jail for, uh, you know, being in billions

00:36:41.120 of dollars of debt or then, then suddenly the game, the keeping up with the Joneses

00:36:45.820 thing just falls apart.

00:36:46.620 So it very well could be that Kimmel is next or very well could be that Fallon is next.

00:36:52.320 I don't know.

00:36:53.240 It could be that also the shows get scaled down.

00:36:56.780 Um, I don't know.

00:36:57.980 I mean, the, the, the strange thing is that late night, the reason the late night talk

00:37:01.600 show format exists in the first place is that it was a cheap way to take up an hour

00:37:07.060 of television.

00:37:08.020 Um, it's way cheaper to do a late night show than it is to do a network TV drama.

00:37:13.240 And it's like, especially if you're filming it and trying to make it look like a movie,

00:37:16.360 which everybody's trying to do now.

00:37:17.780 Uh, everybody wants to be a Netflix show on, on network, but the it's, it's way cheaper

00:37:23.000 just to have one studio with one team, one staff that's just shows up every day.

00:37:27.400 They do live to tape minimal edits every, and then it goes out that night.

00:37:31.800 I don't know what would take its place, but nobody's really wondering what happens to these

00:37:36.580 open time slots anymore.

00:37:37.780 Like the, the reason that Saturday night live exists is because Johnny Carson existed and

00:37:43.120 NBC decided that they were going to run Johnny Carson reruns on Saturday nights at 1130.

00:37:50.020 Johnny Carson said, I'm not getting paid extra for this.

00:37:52.400 Uh, what's the deal?

00:37:53.360 So they could either pay Johnny Carson way more, or they could start a new show and they

00:37:58.960 created Saturday night live because Johnny Carson didn't want to, you know, get like have

00:38:03.200 his reruns go with him, not getting more money.

00:38:05.500 So there was an open time slot and that created a vacuum where people could be creative with

00:38:10.580 that time slot.

00:38:11.340 It's not the case anymore that everybody's going, what in the world?

00:38:14.220 Like the whole world is wondering what, what are we going to do with that valuable time

00:38:17.480 slot?

00:38:18.120 Um, time slots are not things people are wrestling over.

00:38:20.200 Maybe network executives are, but if everybody's watching it later, if everybody's, if it's

00:38:24.960 just something to fill time or something that's going to get posted on paramount plus the next

00:38:29.880 day, my, my guess is like when, when, when James Corden left, they didn't replace James

00:38:35.820 Corden.

00:38:36.140 They just did like a cheap game show, which is what they're still doing every, every night

00:38:40.200 at 1230 on, uh, actually I think it's 1230 or one, something like that.

00:38:45.060 Um, but I don't know.

00:38:46.640 It's, it could be that everybody else sort of slowly folds or scales the show back to

00:38:50.680 where nobody wants to be embarrassed that they're the ones that folded as well.

00:38:54.040 Uh, but yeah, at a certain point, it has to be a financial decision.

00:38:57.800 Somebody's going to suffer.

00:38:59.200 I assume it's probably going to be late night, uh, because that's where they've been losing

00:39:03.540 a bunch of money and they'll go with something even cheaper or rerun prices, right?

00:39:07.840 At 1130 every night, who knows?

00:39:10.020 Well, and that's another big thing too, as we were talking about previously with the,

00:39:14.440 the studio ecosystem and the celebrity, uh, kind of Camelot feel, uh, you know, a big

00:39:20.460 portion of these late night shows was also, uh, basically just advertising content on the

00:39:26.560 network, right?

00:39:27.200 You'd bring on stars from shows people hadn't heard of yet, or, you know, it was very easy.

00:39:32.260 Hey, go grab some guy off of a lot of the big bang theory and have them walk on here. 0.95

00:39:36.580 And, you know, we'll ask him some questions.

00:39:38.440 It's very easy to, uh, book your own people and, and hype them up and these kinds of things.

00:39:43.740 But now the advertising for that, it does nothing like who's sitting there watching,

00:39:48.820 you know, there, I still see more people talking about like old interviews where Craig Ferguson

00:39:53.580 was hitting on actresses more than anything.

00:39:56.360 You know, when's the last time you saw a celebrity interview from a late night show ever,

00:40:01.860 right?

00:40:02.400 Like, yeah, it just never happens.

00:40:04.580 You know, you, you never even see the clips of these things anymore.

00:40:07.620 Uh, and so like that big function of getting out there and putting these stars in front

00:40:12.120 of stuff, uh, just, just doesn't work anymore.

00:40:14.860 And it's interesting because, uh, as you say, everybody's trying to do something cheaper.

00:40:18.760 Uh, you know, the, the, the podcasts are obviously now the huge thing.

00:40:22.920 Democrats are like, Oh my God, people listen to podcasts, right?

00:40:25.780 Like, and so that was, you know, now they all need a Joe Rogan.

00:40:29.340 Uh, but you know, the podcast just don't cost that much, you know, to produce compared to

00:40:33.840 obviously television.

00:40:35.160 And the fact is that if a celebrity wants to go on, uh, and promote something, they're

00:40:40.140 just going to reach way more people, especially young people in a podcast format.

00:40:44.400 Now the downside, I think for a lot of these people is, uh, much like politicians, uh, much,

00:40:50.320 many of them are like awful or really uninteresting.

00:40:52.780 And so the, you know, the late night format was much easier for them because the interviews

00:40:57.220 are only like 10 minutes.

00:40:58.420 The hosts can protect you a lot.

00:41:00.260 You know, we're cutting away.

00:41:01.600 Well, uh, we'll just throw it.

00:41:02.900 We'll turn it into a game or something.

00:41:04.420 There are all these things you could do with like a super boring or awful person to, to

00:41:08.900 kind of distract from the fact that they can't really survive, but you put them on an hour

00:41:13.080 and a half podcast.

00:41:13.960 There's just nowhere to hide.

00:41:15.000 Right? 1.00

00:41:15.260 Like, and so you end up in this scenario where a lot of these people end up saying the stupidest 0.98

00:41:19.380 things in the world and destroying their own movie on their press tour because 0.94

00:41:22.680 they just can't keep their mouths shut in, you know, when, in these extended, uh, interview formats.

00:41:28.000 Yeah.

00:41:28.300 So they're five to seven minutes.

00:41:29.940 These interviews, if, if they get a whole segment, so, or if they do two segments, Hey,

00:41:33.480 it's whoa, 10 minutes of interaction.

00:41:35.860 And all of it has been gone, they've gone through a pre-interview.

00:41:39.580 So usually what happens is they, these celebrities that get booked on the show, they go in for a

00:41:44.160 pre-interview and they say, here are the stories I want to tell.

00:41:47.560 Um, they send them ahead of time and then they get the okay from the hosts people that,

00:41:53.400 Oh, that, that story is going to be okay.

00:41:54.780 How would you like for him to set that up for you?

00:41:56.460 And then how would you like to make the transition into the next story?

00:41:59.000 And then they'll work through the transition.

00:42:01.100 Even that five minute conversation heavily scripted.

00:42:03.820 And this is not for just for politicians.

00:42:05.320 This is not just like, um, when Kamala Harris comes on or whatever, this is for every actor.

00:42:11.460 When George Clooney wanted to tell a story about pulling pranks on the set of oceans 11,

00:42:15.580 uh, they would have to run that story by the pre-interviewer.

00:42:19.100 Um, and yeah, just very different when you just unleash whoever sitting across from, uh,

00:42:24.560 Joe Rogan or sitting across from Theo Vaughn or whatever.

00:42:27.100 Um, and yeah, I mean, I saw more clips of, uh, Ben Affleck on Theo Vaughn than I would have

00:42:33.260 seen if he would have just done the normal late night press tour.

00:42:36.500 Uh, not to say that I didn't go see Ben Affleck's movie, but, um, but I mean, I, I, I, I saw his

00:42:43.440 stuff.

00:42:43.860 I recognized, Oh, he probably has a new project out.

00:42:46.580 Um, and yeah, that's, I assume that most people are in that same kind of boat.

00:42:50.500 Um, and you know, like, because there's so much content already, nobody's wondering, Oh,

00:42:55.600 what am I going to watch next?

00:42:56.840 I I'm running out of entertaining things to see.

00:42:59.440 I hope somebody on the television tells me what their new project is.

00:43:03.260 Uh, the desire is not there.

00:43:04.460 And also we have access to everything that anybody's ever made.

00:43:08.280 So like, okay, well, I didn't know that Ben Affleck was going to have a new movie out,

00:43:11.680 but I, I just watched the, uh, you know, Preston Sturgis collection from the forties.

00:43:16.960 Hey, and that's like actually way more entertaining and more fun.

00:43:20.740 Um, and so, yeah, things are balkanizing media is balkanizing, but we're actually okay.

00:43:26.200 I think we're going to be better off and not waiting around for, I don't know, Julia Roberts

00:43:30.280 to tell us in five minutes why we should go see her new project.

00:43:34.660 Do you think that ultimately this is a cable problem as well, a television problem?

00:43:40.440 Because, you know, I I'm 41, uh, and I am trying to think of anyone I know who has a cable

00:43:50.340 subscription and I can't like, you know, I, I know boomers with one and maybe some older

00:43:57.020 gen Xers, but you know, young gen Xers, no millennials, you know, no, no one young, you

00:44:03.220 know, and certainly below that, they just don't have any of this before, uh, or anymore.

00:44:08.180 Uh, and so, uh, is there, is there a reason to produce content in this format after the

00:44:16.660 boomers kind of go away?

00:44:18.560 I mean, I imagine we'll probably have on demand television, Netflix's Amazon primes, uh, or

00:44:24.720 whatever we call the network, but you know, uh, there will be these streaming services that

00:44:29.760 will still deliver something like television content in the way that we used to remember

00:44:34.700 it, but the idea of scheduled time-based, uh, you know, uh, uh, sequential television,

00:44:41.660 uh, being something that you regularly subscribe to and just turn on to see whatever's on.

00:44:47.440 Is that even going to exist?

00:44:48.900 Cause I think 10 years ago, the idea was, well, yeah, people love to end up, uh, you know,

00:44:55.680 uh, turning on the TV and they just want to watch something that was an appealing argument,

00:44:59.440 I think about 10 years ago, but now I don't think if you tried to explain to like zoomers 1.00

00:45:04.500 or gin alpha, how that even worked, I don't think they'd care at all.

00:45:08.220 Yeah.

00:45:08.640 The late night format is a definitely a relic of that because, well, first you have the

00:45:14.160 monologue and like Letterman's monologues were never the best thing in the world, but

00:45:18.320 you watch through the, you know, four minutes of him doing stuff and then, oh, I wonder what

00:45:22.660 they're, you know, the top 10 list is going to be.

00:45:24.440 And then after that, like you turn on Letterman because, oh, I heard so-and-so is going to be

00:45:28.720 on.

00:45:29.120 You don't sit through something in order to watch something else.

00:45:31.860 Um, unless it's an ad, I guess.

00:45:33.960 Uh, but now, yeah, people just don't, that's not the way people consume content.

00:45:38.780 Uh, and so when those, when that format hits the internet, why Jimmy Fallon did really well

00:45:45.860 on YouTube for a few years is that he broke up his show into pieces.

00:45:49.660 So, okay, this, he was already doing a clip show.

00:45:52.180 Yeah.

00:45:52.580 Yes, yes, exactly.

00:45:53.840 And so his, his whole show was just, okay, we got this five minute thing that goes out.

00:45:57.820 The monologue is this thing, and that's basically what every late night show did after that.

00:46:03.280 But is there a reason now for somebody to do an hour long thing where the, the opening

00:46:09.980 section is its own standalone thing.

00:46:11.920 And then there's an interview, which is its own standalone thing.

00:46:14.660 Um, there's just, I don't see a reason for that.

00:46:16.800 I don't see a reason for, um, like the only person, the only kind of example of five to

00:46:21.760 six minute interview is like a between two ferns thing.

00:46:24.740 Or like, uh, I know one of the barstool guys does, uh, Sunday or something like that.

00:46:30.520 I forget, I forget what it was, but, um, Caleb Presley does these like short interviews where

00:46:34.340 so-and-so is coming on to promote a project and he asks funny questions and the guest laughs

00:46:38.620 or hot ones or something like that.

00:46:40.840 But if, if, if hot ones had like a monologue where Sean Davis likes, or not Sean Davis, Sean

00:46:47.000 Davis from the Federalist comes on, uh, whatever that guy's name is, where he comes out and

00:46:50.980 does like a few jokes and then, well, tonight we have Conan O'Brien and he's from whatever

00:46:55.020 and he's going to do like, and then like, nobody's doing that.

00:46:57.980 Nobody's doing that kind of format.

00:46:59.580 Um, the, yeah, it's content that gets created for the internet is going to have to be either

00:47:05.440 split those up into separate pieces of content.

00:47:07.080 Like I do my monologues and then I do my podcast over on Canon plus and that's, those are two

00:47:12.560 separate pieces of content and that's the way people watch it.

00:47:15.300 That's the natural way of doing things, uh, which is, you know, not the way I would do it

00:47:19.580 if it was on television, but, uh, yeah, late night is particularly susceptible to that crash

00:47:25.540 network dramas, not necessarily TV, TV dramas.

00:47:28.780 You can put that on Netflix and it watches the same.

00:47:31.820 Uh, but yeah, late night just doesn't, yeah, the, the direct transition just won't work.

00:47:37.680 Yeah.

00:47:38.220 Ultimately, I think that, that, that format is dead and guys like you are, I think, you

00:47:42.680 know, pioneering a lot of what's going to work going forward.

00:47:45.520 So, uh, not, not sad to see, uh, this particular institution, uh, die, uh, uh, uh, death, especially

00:47:52.400 with guys like Colbert at the helm and watching the wailing and gnashing of teeth, uh, over

00:47:57.660 the fact that they just sucked at it, um, and the cope that they're trying to do otherwise

00:48:01.660 is, is rather entertaining.

00:48:03.480 Uh, we have some, uh, super chats piling up.

00:48:05.960 So we should, we get to the questions of people before we do so, Wade, where can people

00:48:10.380 find the Wade show with Wade?

00:48:12.280 So I am at Wade Stotts on X and, uh, Canon plus, uh, Canon plus.com.

00:48:17.940 I do a weekly podcast there, um, interview show.

00:48:21.260 And we have a lot of, we play games and have fun stuff like that.

00:48:23.920 Um, uh, it's, it's not Jimmy Fallon type games where I just get Shaq to wear, you know, Shaq

00:48:28.980 to wear a tutu or whatever he does.

00:48:31.640 But like, yeah, we have a good time, uh, good time over on the Wade cast.

00:48:34.900 Arne's been on a couple of times.

00:48:36.720 Um, and, uh, that's yeah.

00:48:38.400 Canon plus.com and then YouTube also wait, show with Wade.

00:48:41.420 You should, you should recreate the Jimmy Fallon sketch where they get the classroom

00:48:45.220 instruments with the band, but just like get like Christian rock bands on there.

00:48:49.800 Like just get, there we go.

00:48:51.460 Yeah.

00:48:52.000 Yeah.

00:48:52.520 Some, some of that, uh, that energy.

00:48:54.620 All right, guys, let's, uh, let's go over to the questions of the people here real quick.

00:48:59.020 Uh, let's see here.

00:49:00.800 Uh, Truddle says, can't wait for these lib hacks to fizzle out.

00:49:04.540 So my comedy show can rise from the ashes.

00:49:07.340 Wade, probably more episodes, please.

00:49:10.380 Yes. 1.00

00:49:10.640 Wade maniacally rubbing his hands together at the demise of these idiots. 1.00

00:49:14.920 Just waiting. 1.00

00:49:16.320 Oh yes.

00:49:17.800 Uh, posmo says or an unrelated, but you giving the nothing burger treatment to the Tulsi details,

00:49:23.280 uh, how, and when the conspiracy was formed was really demoralizing.

00:49:27.000 Uh, so I, uh, did not give it a nothing burger, uh, to be clear, uh, for people who don't

00:49:32.840 know, uh, we talked about this a little bit with the Prudentialist on the last episode,

00:49:36.860 uh, but Tulsi Gabbard has come out and said that there is this, uh, you know, mountain of

00:49:41.860 evidence that ultimately Barack Obama coordinated with, uh, different aspects of his administration

00:49:48.200 to manufacture the Russiagate intelligence and create this entire, uh, scandal to derail

00:49:54.420 the Trump administration.

00:49:55.880 Um, and my simple point was, I think one that's fairly obvious and one that I think was,

00:50:00.800 you know, uh, uh, echoed by a number of people.

00:50:05.000 Uh, that's nice.

00:50:06.940 When are people going to jail, right?

00:50:08.920 Like, uh, like it's, it's great.

00:50:10.800 And, and, and to be fair to again, update people, uh, right before we started this show,

00:50:15.840 Tulsi Gabbard did another press conference where she laid out more of these details.

00:50:19.020 And she specifically said when asked that they would be referring, uh, a number of Obama

00:50:24.380 administration officials, including Barack Obama himself for criminal prosecution.

00:50:29.840 That's great.

00:50:30.700 That's a great thing to say, but I'm going to be honest at this point, I am very much in

00:50:34.740 the camp of I'll believe it when I see it.

00:50:36.600 It's not that the revelation doesn't matter, but guys, there is a learned helplessness thing

00:50:41.920 that occurs when revelation after revelation, after revelation comes out and nobody pays a

00:50:46.920 cost like Anthony Fauci and, you know, the department of, uh, of, uh, health lied about

00:50:52.520 a bunch of stuff of COVID, including the, you know, the origin and everybody who noticed 0.65

00:50:57.680 that it probably came from a lab in Wuhan there, you know, they're crazy people, except now 0.70

00:51:03.240 the New York times says it's okay to believe that.

00:51:05.420 So you're why in it, you know, can believe this.

00:51:08.140 And guess what?

00:51:09.400 Nothing happens, right?

00:51:10.700 Nobody gets in trouble.

00:51:11.660 The whole, the entire globe was locked down.

00:51:14.520 All these people lied.

00:51:15.660 Nobody goes to jail. 1.00

00:51:16.940 Joe Biden is this like completely inept zombie. 0.99

00:51:20.440 Uh, he's weakened and burning his whole, you know, presidency being run by a cabal of people 0.99

00:51:25.880 who we still aren't exactly sure who's in charge and making decisions.

00:51:29.640 Everything's written by the auto pin.

00:51:31.340 Literally again, a coup inside of the United States.

00:51:35.260 Nothing, right?

00:51:36.180 Not a single person is charged.

00:51:37.980 No one goes to jail.

00:51:39.960 How many times can we do this guys?

00:51:42.480 Like, like I want to see them all in jail too.

00:51:44.680 I agree a hundred percent.

00:51:46.440 I really hope I'm wrong.

00:51:48.040 And the Trump administration has the spine to do this.

00:51:50.380 And we watch Barry, uh, you know, spend the last few years, uh, you know, with the male

00:51:55.280 inmates that he probably would love to spend time with.

00:51:57.940 Like I'm with you, but be honest with me.

00:52:02.360 Do you really think that's going to happen?

00:52:05.040 I want it to, but like, you don't come here and listen to me because I like, you know, shine

00:52:10.200 your shoes for you.

00:52:11.100 You come here because I think I'm honest.

00:52:13.200 And if we're all honest with each other, who's going to jail over this?

00:52:16.380 Let's, let's be real.

00:52:17.240 No.

00:52:18.160 Yeah.

00:52:18.600 Well, I, I'll take it one step further.

00:52:20.220 Also, they should arrest Stephen Colbert for that vaccine, vaccine sketch for sure.

00:52:24.700 No, that was certainly crimes against comedy.

00:52:26.960 High, high crimes against comedy.

00:52:28.620 Absolutely.

00:52:29.600 Yeah.

00:52:30.420 Uh, let's see here. 0.99

00:52:32.560 Uh, he also says Hollywood's, uh, Hollywood starts suck.

00:52:36.480 This model of the talk show where they go on, uh, for free just doesn't work. 0.74

00:52:41.020 They aren't captivating, graceful, or even entertaining.

00:52:43.840 Well, and that's its own thing that the, the quality of celebrity does seem to have declined.

00:52:49.220 And again, it could just be old man shakes fist at sky.

00:52:51.840 Uh, but you do feel like there was a certain, uh, aura, a certain coolness, uh, that you

00:52:57.580 had to have, uh, on some level to operate in these circles. 1.00

00:53:01.860 And now they're just all insufferable idiots who can barely, you know, utter lines complaining 1.00

00:53:09.460 about whatever liberal political thing they've told will make them popular that day. 1.00

00:53:13.120 It's, it's just hard for people to, you know, to build in a, an era of mystique when they're 0.88

00:53:18.480 spending all of their time screaming about how fascist Donald Trump is.

00:53:22.780 Yeah.

00:53:23.220 I, uh, I, I actually disagree because I would like to see as much Pedro Pascal as possible.

00:53:28.500 I want to see more.

00:53:29.380 I want, I wish, yeah, I have not run into that person enough.

00:53:32.460 I would, I would like to see him 24, seven, uh,

00:53:35.200 10 more minutes of Pedro Pascal.

00:53:36.780 Oh, please.

00:53:37.720 Somewhere.

00:53:38.220 Where is he?

00:53:39.040 Where is Pedro Pascal?

00:53:40.020 Yeah, there, there's exactly two men working in Hollywood, I guess.

00:53:44.480 I don't know.

00:53:45.920 Uh, Robert Weinsfeld said, uh, Wade show with Wade is awesome.

00:53:50.600 Many people are saying, uh, Buck, uh, Mulligan says James Lindsay was just referred to,

00:53:58.140 referred to a Democrat Twitter account as woke right for demanding the FC files be released.

00:54:02.640 What is happening?

00:54:03.780 Um, I mean, James is insane.

00:54:06.020 I mean, I don't know what to tell you. 0.71

00:54:07.900 Like he just calls literally anything woke, right?

00:54:10.340 I haven't seen what you're talking about because James has me blocked, but I, I, I trust that he is doing that.

00:54:16.100 James would call a rock woke, right?

00:54:18.120 At this point, uh, he literally called a ham sandwich woke, right?

00:54:21.340 That's not even a joke.

00:54:22.500 That's just a thing that really happened in real life.

00:54:24.760 So shock, um, creeper weirdo, uh, skibbity Biden is still haunts me the cringe of it.

00:54:33.780 Was that a, that I, that was like a skit, right?

00:54:36.280 One of them did.

00:54:36.820 I can't remember.

00:54:37.880 Yes, that was Colbert.

00:54:39.260 Uh, yeah.

00:54:40.020 Skibbity Biden.

00:54:41.000 Uh, and it was a way of, it was like Biden is trying to appeal to Gen Z voters by doing skibbity Biden.

00:54:48.920 And then they played, uh, skibbity toilet, but with, uh, Joe Biden's face on it.

00:54:53.660 It was, it was brilliant.

00:54:54.940 I mean, yeah, you're basically explaining events on Mars to me right now.

00:55:00.900 Like, yeah, you're better off.

00:55:02.480 I envy you.

00:55:03.360 Aaron.

00:55:03.940 Fair enough.

00:55:04.760 Fair enough.

00:55:05.280 I am old.

00:55:05.980 We've established.

00:55:07.260 Um, Alex says, uh, they use millennial writers and they are so cringe.

00:55:13.220 I'm sure that the quality of writers is not helping, uh, that program at all.

00:55:18.660 Uh, philosophical thirstworm says my cousins went to Colbert's Sunday school lesson, uh, at, uh, St. uh, Kasson. 0.94

00:55:25.420 And it, uh, was that kind of, uh, Protestant rock band guitar crap. 0.99

00:55:29.820 Any good Catholic should hate. 1.00

00:55:31.840 Uh, yeah, a lot of people have focused on Colbert's, uh, Catholicism.

00:55:37.240 Uh, he, it's kind of like Joe Biden Catholicism where like technically you believe it, but it doesn't impact.

00:55:43.220 Any of your life or political beliefs or anything you say or how you treat people.

00:55:47.280 Uh, and so, uh, neat, I guess.

00:55:50.720 Uh, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to show up at call, uh, a Stephen Colbert, uh, Catholic service and find out it's slightly less Catholic than you'd expect.

00:56:00.220 Yeah.

00:56:00.800 Colbert.

00:56:01.280 I mean, I remember when evangelicals were talking about how excited they were to have a Christian on television and public facing position.

00:56:08.620 Um, but it usually said something about, uh, where that evangelical stood on just about everything.

00:56:15.280 Um, yeah, yeah.

00:56:16.540 It's, it is sad how people will just eat up when somebody who they can claim is, uh, representing them.

00:56:24.260 Uh, yeah, you learn a lot about people from, from who they, who they claimed you were represented by.

00:56:28.380 Well, you said a Christian, but he's a Catholic.

00:56:31.640 So, sorry.

00:56:32.060 I'm going to dodge all the internet.

00:56:35.100 Don't get me into this.

00:56:36.340 I know it's for those who don't know, Twitter has lost its mind recently over this.

00:56:41.060 I am joking.

00:56:42.260 Catholics are Christians.

00:56:43.360 Calm down.

00:56:44.080 Uh, but it has been, uh, it has been a hilarious, uh, uh, sideshow to everything else that's going on right now.

00:56:49.960 Uh, philosophical thirstworm also says I work at a mostly legitimate nonprofit and even the elderly, uh, Methuselah libs there.

00:56:58.400 Don't even watch Colbert anymore.

00:57:00.260 They're still on Bourdain reruns.

00:57:02.300 Oh man.

00:57:02.880 Yeah.

00:57:03.100 Anthony Bourdain reruns somewhere.

00:57:04.880 That's going to be a little sad at this point.

00:57:06.660 Right?

00:57:06.840 I mean, it was already kind of sad when he was alive, but now it's really sad.

00:57:10.360 Um, right.

00:57:11.100 Yeah.

00:57:11.640 This guy has so many, many bugs that he killed himself.

00:57:14.540 Yeah.

00:57:14.680 Just try.

00:57:15.140 Yeah.

00:57:15.860 Yeah.

00:57:16.400 Um, but, uh, but it is amazing.

00:57:18.320 Uh, it's true.

00:57:19.720 I don't even, even when I'm around older people, I don't hear anyone reference.

00:57:24.500 Hey, did you catch Colbert last night?

00:57:26.180 Right?

00:57:26.460 Like if I'm sitting, I could be sitting down playing P-knuckle and not expect to hear, you know, at the, at the, at the monthly bridge, uh, meeting and, and not expect to hear anyone talk about this.

00:57:37.140 So even the intended audience, even the people who should in theory, you know, be the legacy audience for this seem completely oblivious.

00:57:44.620 In fact, I would, I would venture to guess that younger people probably see more late night comedy just because they're on the internet more and see more of the clips than people who actually watch it live at this point.

00:57:55.260 Yeah.

00:57:55.620 Um, and another piece of this also that I forgot to mention was like Colbert framed himself always as like the comedy nerd or like the guy who had like off the real off the wall sensibilities.

00:58:05.400 And like, if you watch the old show, there are some jokes that are like, uh, you know, not, not just standard, uh, punchlines and would do more madcap stuff.

00:58:13.820 And I, I enjoyed that stuff.

00:58:14.960 I think he's good at it, but he didn't carry that over.

00:58:17.860 And so I think that some of the older crowd that he's trying to go to aren't going to take some of the, I don't know, it's, it's a, it's a sensibility that doesn't really lend itself to that kind of format. 0.51

00:58:27.980 So he's leaned more on just the straight, like Trump is a fascist, uh, thing.

00:58:31.880 Conan O'Brien tried to make the madcap thing work in at 1130 and we all saw that worked out for him.

00:58:38.860 True enough.

00:58:40.540 All right, guys.

00:58:41.440 Well, it looks like that's everything.

00:58:43.200 I want to say that, of course, if you are not watching the Wade show, for some reason, you should fix that immediately.

00:58:48.280 It is certainly better than any late night comedy show.

00:58:51.320 Not that I'm really waxing, uh, too high praise on the Wade with that one, but he, he is clearing that limbo bar.

00:58:58.780 Uh, and, uh, but you should definitely be watching his show.

00:59:02.300 And if it's your first time here, of course, you need to subscribe on YouTube, click the bell notifications, all that stuff.

00:59:07.320 When we go live, remember guys, if you don't click the bell and the notifications, YouTube is just not going to show you anything.

00:59:13.200 Cause they don't believe that being subscribed to a channel means you want to see anything.

00:59:17.040 Uh, also, if you'd like to get these broadcasts as podcasts, you need to subscribe to the ORMAC entire show on your favorite podcast platform.

00:59:23.100 When you do leave a rating or review, it really helps with the algorithm magic.

00:59:26.920 I want to thank everybody for watching.

00:59:28.860 And as always, I will talk to you next time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - July 23, 2025

Why Stephen Colbert's Late Show Failed ｜ Guest： Wade Stotts ｜ 7⧸23⧸25

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