00:00:00.980Hey everybody, how's it going? Thanks for joining me this afternoon. I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.
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00:00:31.720Well, we've talked about artificial intelligence a lot on this show, and that subject is going to continue to be incredibly important.
00:00:39.440You've probably seen the discussion over AI data centers that has been blowing up recently.
00:00:44.520Obviously, AI doesn't just come out of nowhere.
00:00:46.660We need vast amounts of computers to make this work.
00:00:50.140and there's a lot of complaints over these things being built whether they're actually good for the
00:00:54.980environment are they negatively impacting the power grids and other aspects of the communities
00:00:59.840in which they are placed and ultimately do these things actually benefit anyone there was a very
00:01:04.920interesting debate between tucker carlson and kevin o'leary who's one of the guys who's looking
00:01:09.880to build the largest data center in the united states and we're going to run through some of
00:01:14.520that video and talking about it we're also going to be talking about a new book from our returning
00:01:19.160guest chase davis chase thank you so much for coming on glad to be here man thanks for having
00:01:23.660me back absolutely well we're going to jump into the data centers first and then we will get to
00:01:28.620chase's new great book that is coming out here soon uh so the guy in question here is kevin o'leary
00:01:35.260let me just go ahead and bring us there the train so the guy involved here is kevin o'leary and he
00:01:41.140is trying to build this massive data center the largest one in the united states i believe
00:01:47.260to date. And a lot of people are very concerned about what the outcome might be. Now, the
00:01:53.100interesting thing about Kevin O'Leary is he's sitting here with this Utah hat on, right? Because
00:01:58.060this is where he wants to build the data center. And it's supposed to show, I guess, some kind of
00:02:03.820local support or something. But of course, Kevin O'Leary doesn't live in Utah. I doubt he ever
00:02:09.100even had been to Utah before he wanted to build something there. In fact, Kevin O'Leary isn't even
00:02:14.440like some guy from New York who's developing things in the United States. Kevin O'Leary is a
00:02:21.100Canadian. He worked in the television industry, developing shows, that kind of thing. This is a
00:02:27.340guy who's worked in tech, but he is a Canadian. He currently lives in Miami, but he also has
00:02:34.140Irish citizenship and interestingly, Imrati citizenship. So this is a guy who is a rootless1.00
00:02:40.680called rootless cosmopolitan who has several different uh you know citizenships in all the
00:02:46.880countries where you flee if your business is trying to avoid taxes or any of these other things
00:02:52.300so it's not exactly a guy who has his fate tied to the future of the united states that's very
00:02:57.840funny because many times over when he's having this discussion he keeps saying we we are doing
00:03:02.860this we are doing that we don't want to fall behind and the question of course you have to
00:03:07.100ask yourself is, what do you mean we, Kevin? Do you mean Canadians? Do you mean people who have
00:03:14.200Irish passports? Do you mean people who could go to any of the United Arab Emirates on a moment's
00:03:20.700notice if things go south here? Who are you tied to? Who is we here? And it's very interesting
00:03:26.300because this guy was also running for the leadership of the Canadian Conservative Party
00:03:33.120as recently as 2017. So when he says we here, it's not like, oh, well, OK, yeah, he came from
00:03:38.940Canada, but he's been in America for a long time and this is his real home. And no, this is a guy
00:03:45.040who was literally trying to run for the leadership of a foreign political party less than 10 years
00:03:50.940ago. So this is not an American in any way, shape or form, but he presents himself as somebody who
00:03:57.240is acting as an American who's on America's side with this kind of stuff. But let's go ahead and
00:04:03.040dive into the clip here and we'll just kind of pause and comment as we go building data center
00:04:08.620that trains ai that provides productivity to the entire nation we create millions of jobs
00:04:15.560high paying jobs jobs ai is going to create jobs yes i thought it was going to eliminate jobs net
00:04:22.420just think about the new technologies we don't even know yet that are going to be built off ai
00:04:29.000everybody thinks when television came everybody would lose their job in radio that was complete
00:04:34.500bf and the same thing is going to happen here everybody's hysteria about losing jobs making
00:04:40.660hamburgers or flipping them being replaced by a robot that's probably true but all kinds of
00:04:45.660new technology will become available over time including in medical science so chase we hear
00:04:52.060this argument a lot when it comes to ai oh don't be a luddite obviously we know that at some point0.96
00:04:58.880You know, people were riding around on horses and then we created the car and all the horseshoe blacksmiths went out of business, but we had all these new jobs and you're being ridiculous.0.84
00:05:09.440It's this classic argument of creative destruction.
00:05:13.100The problem, of course, is that many people who've been working on AI, some of the people who are probably the most profound thinkers or developers in that area have not been coy about this.
00:05:24.140They've said there's going to be an absolute economic bloodbath.
00:05:27.060We're not talking about people who flip burgers losing their jobs here.
00:05:30.960We're talking about, you know, people who work in white collar jobs, engineers, you know, people who write for a living.
00:05:39.260All kinds of stuff is going to get absolutely blown out of the water.
00:05:42.260I mean, who's ever going to need something like a paralegal, you know, or someone who, like, does this kind of job that is immediately going to get snatched up and consumed by AI?
00:07:40.360We never seem to get an answer to this.
00:07:42.160It was really interesting a couple of years ago, or maybe it was in the last year. I don't know if you remember. There was kind of the threat of truck drivers jobs being replaced by automated trucking. Do you remember this? It was a big debate. It was the first time I had really like grappled seriously with the implications of certain convictions I had politically and economically.
00:08:01.580but Kevin's attitude here is classic just like America is an economic zone it can be exploited
00:08:06.000for whatever and we're just gonna make money and that's all it's good for the question always comes
00:08:10.420down to what's good for the people you know what's good for the people in that in that local area
00:08:13.980and what leads to greater kind of not just productivity some might call human flourishing
00:08:19.680but what leads to public good for these people and so there's a huge question a lot of the people I
00:08:25.220find it very creepy that they're even creating I saw there was a live stream yesterday of a robot
00:08:29.940examining packages on a conveyor belt. And it was a robot that was anthropomorphized. It was a human
00:08:37.500robot, right? Human-like robot. And it's kind of creepy. Like they're very upfront, like that they
00:08:43.020want to replace a lot of stuff and they're not being clear. I think there's pros and cons. I'm
00:08:47.900kind of on the pro side of AI in terms of its implementation. I see it as incredibly powerful
00:08:54.800and helpful um i've started my own website commonplace.study anyone can go look it up
00:08:59.600and uh we can get into that when we talk about my book because it's pertinent to the book but
00:09:03.680i've used ai for for lots of different activities but there is a threat right and and nobody's
00:09:08.880really being clear on what that is and no no politician is really uh grappling with like
00:09:13.440how are we going to prevent america from just going to ubi where you know people are totally
00:09:19.680disincentivized for work um and so yeah i don't i don't have a uh my gut instinct is to be
00:09:26.080suspicious but at the same time i understand that ai can be incredibly helpful in efficiency
00:09:32.800productivity and eliminating a lot of jobs that are sometimes just like uh powerpoint jobs you
00:09:40.800know just like you're producing a lot of stuff that maybe you're you're not as essential uh in
00:09:46.080terms of that company's productivity and profitability so it's not that i'm necessarily
00:09:50.480conflicted i'm just trying to see the whole picture here and see where kevin's going
00:09:54.240yeah and i think that's important you know i am somebody who recognizes that well i think there are
00:10:00.400extreme dangers in ai and i'm not hiding the ball on that i also think ai is inevitable like i i i
00:10:06.880i am a good accelerationist in this sense uh not not in the political accelerationism but
00:10:12.400in the understanding of technology and how it's going to to ultimately implement itself i the fact
00:10:18.600that we are trying to have these conversations now after so many of these data centers have
00:10:23.980already been built after so much of ai has already been developed after so much is already going to
00:10:28.360be implemented means that we simply we're not really going to completely control the rollout
00:10:34.540of artificial intelligence and even if we did as often as pointed out by its advocates someone else
00:10:39.820won't like someone else will not control ai and it's developing the same way we will we will and
00:10:44.980then we'll have to deal with the the consequences of that that said i think it's important to
00:10:49.480recognize that our american development of ai is not the same as you see in other areas for instance
00:10:57.200in china it's not generally chasing like the god ai it's not chasing this you know grand artificial
00:11:04.120general intelligence that's going to be smarter than americans smarter than all humans able to
00:11:09.100surpass us in every way they're not trying to create this deity which weirdly and well not so
00:11:13.620weirdly and i know exactly why they're saying it but why the silicon valley guys keep saying over0.92
00:11:18.520and over again like if there's one thing if you if you were trying to sell ai to the average chud
00:11:23.420you know the average guy in the middle of the country the one thing you probably wouldn't want
00:11:27.180to make uh clear over and over again is we are trying to make a god but but they just keep saying
00:11:33.320it chase they keep saying it over and over and over again i promise i'm not going to drag you
00:11:37.720to the theological implications of our official intelligence but but the fact that that is
00:11:43.260the stated goal of so many of our tech oligarchs in the united states where it is not the goal in
00:11:50.700china makes you understand that there could be um i guess less faustian implications to this
00:11:57.160technology you don't have to use it to like completely replace the human race like actually
00:12:02.900there are other ways in which you you could develop it where that that's not like the explicit
00:12:07.800stated goal of the technology but for some reason these guys just keep running into that one over
00:12:14.100and over again again the most easy pr thing in the world to make clear and yet they never do
00:12:19.040they're always like yeah yeah no we're totally building uh like satan it's fine you know don't
00:12:22.920worry about it the antichrist it'll be fine you'll love it the antichrist will get rid of like uh all
00:12:27.240you need to go to work and your reason for living and it's fine you don't it'll be okay yeah and i
00:12:32.340I just don't think they, because they lack a moral foundation, a lot of these people are agnostic
00:12:36.640atheist, you know, and we know what John Locke thinks of atheist. I don't know that they're
00:12:42.480going to be successful. I mean, like when we look at LLMs and AI and GPUs and all data centers and
00:12:47.480all the stuff going into it, the powerful component is it's kind of like it's internet on
00:12:55.160high dose of drugs, where it's just an accelerated ability to reason through arguments. It's taking
00:13:02.180copious amounts of information in in order to provide outputs to you that sometimes are and
00:13:10.080they can be curated right so you've got anthropic and and grok and chat gpt and all of them are
00:13:15.960are uniquely curated and there's tons more coming where these llms are uh designed a certain way
00:13:22.140to produce certain outcomes that's that's what concerns me most for people i'm less concerned
00:13:26.800with their kind of fantasy about creating a false god even though that's wicked and i disagree with
00:13:31.900i'm more concerned with like how are you designing it to teach people it's pedagogical it's a
00:13:37.340question of like formation for me and so as these models because the average user isn't necessarily
00:13:43.640focused on databases they're focusing on the end product and they're going to ai asking questions
00:13:49.360about a variety of topics and that ai the the classic joke joke online is uh it's predictable
00:13:57.120many times in terms of how it's going to respond and it's reinforcing itself
00:14:01.000so and reinforcing you so your priors so there's there's not a lot of deep reasoning in terms of
00:14:06.900curated to like be maximally open it's designed by people and it does bother me a lot of these
00:14:15.980silicon valley guys they're transhumanists they want to basically replace the human race
00:14:20.560again i mentioned this in my book also it gets into the longevity stuff that a lot of people
00:14:25.960are into today. And there's a lack of humility, a lack of reason, a lack of groundedness in any
00:14:31.920kind of philosophy. It's just like, isn't tech awesome? Accelerate, accelerate, accelerate.
00:14:37.100And I'm like, look, I mean, that's been going on for years now with the internet. It seems like
00:14:43.320there's no one holding it back or trying to guide the conversation. Instead, they're hiring some
00:14:48.060woman from England that got her philosophy degree from Edinburgh to run Anthropics design model for
00:15:14.580one, how boastful they are that they can do this
00:15:17.740and how easily deceived many people are
00:15:20.860thinking that they're right, that they can't do it.
00:15:23.600well and here's the thing even if you don't believe and i'll just lay my cards on the table
00:15:29.340i think disembodied consciousnesses are ultimately going to be demonic i think there's a reason that
00:15:34.780you don't put a ouija board in the middle of your house and that's the same reason you shouldn't turn
00:15:39.020over your will to an ai but even if you don't think if you don't believe like i believe you0.99
00:15:43.640don't think it's a serious threat on that level you don't think it can ascend to that kind of1.00
00:15:47.320threat like ultimately what you should be worried about is that llms behave a lot like people like0.96
00:15:54.480people like oh llm all it does is take information that you put into it and then kind of regurgitate
00:16:00.120it back the way you want to hear it well guess what that's like what most people do too like
00:16:04.560that's actually how you interact with most humans day to day i i hate to break this to a lot of
00:16:08.900people but most people aren't that agentic like they don't actually uh take a lot of uh you know
00:16:14.880agency and what they're doing uh they're they're not uh particularly uh interested in you know
00:16:19.820kind of understanding everything that they interact with they simply kind of absorb what
00:16:23.780said back to them and then vomit it back so in many ways the llm is already behaving very much
00:16:29.160like the average human and the other thing is that humans will interact with it and treat it as if it
00:16:34.540is a uh source of truth we already have this with google man like when i was teaching uh public
00:16:40.800school if a kid googled something that was it like that was just true because it was on google
00:16:45.700that's their entire epistemological structure and so they couldn't reason their way to anything
00:16:50.200they couldn't evaluate it from the outside they couldn't understand other authoritative
00:16:54.200forces once you've like kind of typed something into google and you get a result that's the answer
00:16:59.860and that's going to happen with ai and that's where the pedagogy comes in right because then
00:17:03.320you have the problem of the ai is training you to believe whatever it was trained to believe
00:17:08.520and now the ai is training you you're not training the ai and people people with 130 iq are like oh
00:17:15.260i'm not gonna fall for that well good for you okay but with 130 iq you should be able to look
00:17:19.760at a bell curve and recognize that the other 80 of the world is actually gonna fall right under that
00:17:25.240right like they're 100 gonna fall for this stuff and unless you plan to use it to like rule the
00:17:30.660world which we'll get to that because i think that's the goal but ultimately unless you plan
00:17:34.820to like rule the world with it this is something you should care about but you should care about
00:17:37.860whether your neighbor's kid is going to be able to understand basic truth know how to pursue it
00:17:42.040in a real holistic organic way that actually like looks towards the transcendent instead of just
00:17:47.720staring into the computer screen that said let's hear a little more of the uh the comments here
00:17:52.540and biology and all kinds of things where the models can be used i'm extremely optimistic what
00:17:58.580i'm doing is creating a whole new opportunity for my children what kinds of jobs well i mean again
00:18:05.540And some of this, of course, is unknowable and I want to be as fair as I can be because I'm grateful that you're willing to talk about it so openly.
00:18:13.440But you just said this will create, AI will create millions of new jobs.
00:18:25.440Because we can go through the list that the creators, the people who actually are making AI right now, developing it,
00:18:32.420We can go through a list of jobs they say it's going to eliminate, which would be like lawyers and financial planners and like the basis of upper middle class America.
00:18:44.680It'll be replaced by new science opportunities, new exploration into space, new manufacturing for robotics, for defense as well.
00:18:53.460Wars in the future probably aren't going to be fought with people getting shot in the flesh.
00:18:58.580It'll be one set of robots against another.0.84
00:19:00.960I think the drone technology will advance the manufacturing of surveillance, all that stuff against our enemies, which notably is basically China.0.67
00:19:09.900So if you think about how, you know, you debate the data center, I think it's fair to do that, what you're doing.
00:19:15.100But I would be very concerned if I were living in Taiwan that one day my electricity just goes out and I get invaded by basically robotics and high precision ordinance.0.91
00:19:26.240And that's what China wants. And they want to get there first.0.96
00:19:28.860Now, if we don't get there first, if we don't develop something better than their AI and our ability to be predictive on where these conflicts are going to happen, I think we'll be in a bad place in 20 years.
00:19:40.920And so I think it's very revealing that I asked you about jobs in the United States and you went immediately to defending Taiwan in the South.
00:19:47.560Well, we meant a fact like I love this point.
00:19:58.860oh okay so it's for the maintenance of the global empire right like that's all the all of the jobs
00:20:06.420all the benefits outside of medical care like basically everything he listed there was building0.99
00:20:12.080weapons creating drones creating surveillance stuff which he says is for china yeah i'm sure
00:20:18.400that will certainly not end up pointed at me in mind but like everything that he lists there
00:20:23.280is for the benefit of foreign governments, war with foreign governments, or the surveillance
00:20:28.800of people in the United States, inevitably, except for the medical. That was like the one
00:20:33.020benefit he actually listed. And again, no jobs, no, no, no hard explanation of what jobs would
00:20:38.740be created. Just speculation about if we don't do this, we'll fall behind in some way that will be
00:20:44.600irreparable. Now I've looked into this and as far as I can tell, we're about six to nine months
00:20:49.640ahead of china and don't get me wrong like that's good i'd like to be ahead of china i guess in the0.99
00:20:55.120abstract but i don't know chase like i don't feel like we have to burn the candle of both ends to
00:20:59.700stay nine months ahead of china like if we hit nine if we hit like a certain level of development
00:21:05.760do we just nuke china because like we got far enough ahead of them like i i just don't understand0.95
00:21:11.420what this mad dash to like burn all of this capital down for to stay like nine months ahead0.86
00:21:17.540like i just it's never explained how this is going to benefit anyone but the global empire
00:21:22.720well i think it to me it's analogous to the nuclear arms race which i was born at the very
00:21:29.240tail end of it and from what i understand and you could probably speak to it better as somebody
00:21:34.580dabbles in politics more than me it you know somebody's going to develop this technology
00:21:40.040and we want as americans to develop the technology and be better than them and that to me is kind of
00:21:46.820a pretty solid argument for America being ahead of China or anybody else in terms of competency
00:21:53.560and execution of how AI is used, especially in national defense. I think if I were to kind of
00:21:59.760defend Kevin's perspective here, to me, he's simply giving an illustration. Yes, I believe
00:22:06.240he's kind of a rootless cosmopolitan and it's a global American empire, but those things do
00:22:11.960kind of matter in terms of what Taiwan manufactures. I think Trump, I'm pretty sure
00:22:18.200Trump is being very effective on reshoring a lot of the microchips and GPUs and the things that we
00:22:24.840need to stay technologically advanced and ahead of China. But he's not wrong to necessarily bring
00:22:31.140that up in principle. Of course, looking at who he is and what he's doing, it makes sense that
00:22:35.120it would be connected to the kind of empire expansion and kind of the globalist mindset.
00:22:38.780But I do think we're missing an opportunity to discuss how this might not just reshore. Let's use Taiwan as an example. Can we reshore manufacturing? Can we bring back manufacturing to America? What is this going to look like for the average American to start a small business, to run their own thing, to leave that corporate job where they're tired of working for an insurance agency, they can start their own agency and becomes much more competitive.
00:23:04.460it could get totally flooded. And it could be just like, you have all these websites and all
00:23:09.760these shops pop up. But honestly, a lot of the AI opportunity I see is for a lot of people to
00:23:15.660take their career vocation and their interests into their own hands and see what happens and
00:23:19.780take risk again and become a genic. Because for a lot of people, they're stuck with massive
00:23:26.180amounts of debt and jobs that they may or may not like. For these lawyers and financial planners
00:23:32.760that tucker mentions they are connected with firms typically they're connected with large
00:23:38.140corporations what would it look like to spin off and do your own thing so there could be opportunities
00:23:42.640there that i think people aren't accounting for yeah it by some forecast it looks like it's going
00:23:47.400to be an economic bloodbath like this terrible thing and i again i'm sympathetic to those
00:23:51.840arguments because i think modernity and a lot of the industrial revolution has had consequences
00:23:56.520and it's not led to more human flourishing. We're not seeing the happiest people that have ever
00:24:06.980lived. In fact, we're seeing the opposite, more depressed and anxious than ever before.
00:24:10.480So I totally am willing to grapple with the negative implications. But a lot of times when
00:24:15.040we focus on the negative implications so much, we're missing just basic opportunities for the
00:24:19.220average American to really like in an economic, we'll call it a difficult time. I don't know if
00:24:25.380it's a recession or not what everyone would call it right now uh things are fraught uh what would
00:24:30.200it look like to be creative start something on their own where they can take initiative and it
00:24:36.000really it does feel like kind of a frontier where now where you used to go have to go hire a developer
00:24:42.040hire a bunch of people outside help you can just start your own thing um whether it's and i'm seeing
00:24:47.800this done in construction i'm seeing this done in service work there's tons of opportunities for the
00:24:52.480average american to now boost their own ability for economic advantage to make a better life for
00:24:58.880themselves it's a to me it's a tool and it's not simply a tool it is pedagogical but it is a tool
00:25:04.080to advantage oneself in the world so i think this is the best defense of artificial intelligence and
00:25:11.320one that i am sympathetic to not just because it would allow individuals to start businesses and
00:25:16.360these kind of things which i think would be great to if you could generally free people from the
00:25:20.460need to be part of massive corporations and everything that would be great however there's
00:25:26.300a couple problems with that i mean my my favorite use of it would be to take that same model and say
00:25:31.360well this should allow us to create smaller governments because one of the reasons we have
00:25:35.100to maximize these the size of the government is the power of scale and if we can mimic the power
00:25:42.320of scale with ai if we can replace bureaucracies in the managerial class with artificial intelligence
00:25:47.920Maybe we can start creating functional city states again. Maybe we could have smaller governments that actually compete against large governments because they don't need the sheer force of people that was necessary to kind of operate these bureaucracies and get the advantages of scale.
00:26:04.060However, here's my problem with that argument, which I'm sympathetic to and I think is the best one. The problem I see coming is the bottleneck. So what is happening right now is that all of these chips at processors and RAM and everything are exploding in cost right now because only the AI guys are really able to afford them.
00:26:28.940Like they're so high in demand that you're seeing the rates for any kind of civilian or average person use skyrocket because it's all going into AI.
00:26:38.040So that means that these data centers, these large corporations are hoovering up all the compute power that would normally be distributed to guys like you and me.
00:26:48.120And instead, they're all consolidating it under their corporate umbrellas, the things they control.
00:26:53.720Yeah, you could use the AI to do the functions that you used to have on your own computer.
00:26:58.360And it'll probably do them better. However, you're no longer in control. You're no longer in control of the data. You're no longer in control of the physical instruments. You no longer have the personal compute power. And so we're in the name of disintermediating these businesses from corporations.
00:27:14.580We're tying everyone's personal compute power to these exact corporations that we're trying to escape.
00:27:21.740The same thing is true with electricity, right?
00:27:24.060Like one of the things that I think has been rightly pointed out over and over again is that, you know, for a very long time, we all had to hear about climate change and the end of the world and environmental impact and all of this stuff.
00:27:35.220And magically, over the last few years, when all of these guys who were leading the charge on climate change, like Bill Gates, suddenly want data centers everywhere, it doesn't matter anymore.
00:27:48.780We're no longer getting documentaries about the environment.
00:27:51.620It turns out no one cares about the environment because now we need to produce way more electricity than we ever had before.
00:27:57.740And guess what? There are now power companies who are pulling their service from communities so they can sell all their power to AI because AI can outbid all of those local grids for that power.
00:28:10.820Now, there are some changes being made. There are substations being put in. There are these different data centers that are promising to generate some level of their own power. But ultimately, the situation right now is we are taking compute power. We're taking individual ownership of data and processing. We're taking even raw electricity. And we're taking it away from the average person and giving it to AI so that they can centralize all of the results inside things they own.
00:28:39.920And I don't know if you remember this chase, but these people all tried to kill us, right? Like they all locked us in our houses and closed our churches. And I don't trust them with anything. I don't trust them with vaccines. I don't trust them with my health. I don't trust them with the governance. Why would I trust them with electricity production and the manufacturing of weapons and the creation of technology to spy on me all centralized in a place? I don't have access to it because they specifically made it too expensive for me to own my own computer.
00:29:08.740you see where i'm going with this like like i again i i totally understand your argument it's
00:29:12.900an it's a good point it's my favorite point in favor of ai but i just feel like it's not it's
00:29:17.880not running up against some of the partial realities of how we're getting to this place
00:29:23.000yeah i think i think that's a great point and i think you're looking like i mean maybe it's
00:29:27.640nine months away maybe it's five years away is there a point at which you know your thesis in
00:29:32.320the total state uh applied to ai comes true uh we're seeing this tension already play out with
00:29:38.960the data center stuff we're seeing it um already happen in some ways but i still think there's
00:29:44.460there's great not just use cases but um americans have to take an attitude um this pertinent to the
00:29:53.420book is instead of fear and suspicion which is warranted sometimes and we're designed and
00:30:00.640hardwired that way, not just theologically, biologically. There has to be, where's the
00:30:06.000opportunity for me to take advantage of this? So for me, earlier you talked about these LLMs
00:30:11.500that are curated, that you talk about teaching in classrooms with Google. So what I noticed
00:30:17.500this problem with Christians going to either Google or other sites or other sources where0.99
00:30:22.560they're just getting all these answers. And I'm like, dude, we have all the sources. We can just0.55
00:30:27.020designed an AI bot to tell us exactly what the source says, not anything else. It's not going
00:30:32.440to say anything else. And that's what I did at commonplace.study. A lot of people can go check
00:30:35.760it out. But like, that's a, what I did is a great example of the average consumer. And I'm not
00:30:41.600getting, you know, throttled. I mean, you will get throttled. I was talking to my brother about0.98
00:30:45.340this. He's like, wait a second. I put in three prompts into this LLM and now I can't even do
00:30:49.020anymore because I'm getting throttled and I have to pay more. I'm like, yeah. And that's part of
00:30:51.800what you're talking about, Warren, is like they're preferring the corporation. And so it does feel
00:30:58.080like a battle. But this has been true in a lot of areas of the Industrial Revolution with any kind
00:31:03.160of resources that have been produced where corporations get better prices. I see this in
00:31:08.020the church world. Smaller churches often get kind of blocked out of really good deals on, let's say,
00:31:14.240church communication software or any other product because at scale, the cost is so much better than
00:31:19.860when you're just a small church you can't afford these big this access to the big technology so
00:31:24.320this has always been a tension between resources that we're creating resources we're having and
00:31:29.720so yeah i think it would be foolish to kind of sit back and go well it's all bad i'm not going
00:31:34.300to participate i'm like no learn user agency try to figure out a way to utilize something create
00:31:40.500something design something implement it in a way that can advantage you uh because those that don't
00:31:46.500learn it, don't take advantage of it, will get left behind. And their jobs could be eaten up
00:31:52.220by people who are more competent at implementing these tools.
00:31:56.580Yeah. And I understand that argument. And it has a good track record on previous technologies. So
00:32:05.240I am not going to trash it out of hand. I do think that artificial intelligence is different in a
00:32:12.280pretty fundamental way uh that said though like as i already acknowledged i am a good accelerationist
00:32:17.980and i do think that ultimately this is going to happen one way or another and so there is a very
00:32:22.500strong argument for if this is inevitable then you need to be in control of the process um i just
00:32:28.860worry worry very deeply um that very little is thought is being put into what that means uh
00:32:35.800especially for the average person i don't think the average person is going to adjust to ai
00:32:40.240any more than the average person adjusted to the service economy or even the industrial
00:33:57.760What specifically are you talking about?
00:33:59.680Well, you know, every time technology advances, it creates new opportunities that were not
00:34:04.000foreseen prior, because you don't know the direction of new tech. You know, think about
00:34:10.360if you and I, because we were actually around in the late 80s, contemplating what new jobs would
00:34:15.320be created by the internet. And look at what's happened. It's created millions of jobs and
00:34:23.800advanced all kinds of technologies and changed the way we live to the better. And I would say to you,
00:34:29.640the same angst we had the same narrative that was going on in 1992 about how the internet is
00:34:37.120going to wipe out the economy and it's a bad thing and it's dangerous of course people loathe
00:34:43.720change i don't know man i watch a lot of kids staring into portals into hell like 15 hours a
00:34:49.960day and i guess this is less compelling for me than others like i get it we have to be better
00:34:55.640than everybody else but like do we though like is like like how much of the future and and and
00:35:00.920here's my my final thing before we move on to your book because i really want to uh make sure we have
00:35:04.980enough time to talk about that um i couldn't include it because this is like a two-hour
00:35:09.700interview but near the end he also sneaks in and says oh by the way i think we should have open
00:35:16.260borders with canada and we should turn ourselves into the eu and be able to move freely between
00:35:21.860the borders by the way in case you didn't know canada is busy replacing its entire population
00:35:26.600with the subcontinent like can canada is now just a outpost of india at this point so open borders
00:35:32.660with canada means basically just infinite indians going directly into the united states which
00:35:38.220weirdly just seems to always be the goal of these people for some reason but really importantly he's
00:35:44.620acknowledging that a large number of these jobs will be destroyed at some level by robots and
00:35:50.600then is like but what if we open the borders right like and it's it's it's crazy because0.85
00:35:55.780logically of course ai proponents should say oh no this will make it so we don't need to import
00:36:02.400people and i think that's what you'd say too chase but but all the guys running these programs0.61
00:36:07.980like to a man every one of them is like and we should open the borders and and bring in as many0.94
00:36:13.000indians as possible every one of them knows they're destroying jobs every one of them knows1.00
00:36:17.360they're replacing those jobs with computers every one of them is still saying we should bring in1.00
00:36:21.840millions and millions of people and open the border something here smells like something here
00:36:27.520is that they must know these arguments they have to have heard that surely someone has sat them
00:36:32.840down and told them this and yet they continue to repeat the open borders argument sneak it into
00:36:36.820everything that's another thing that concerns me yeah i agree i mean like and i think the
00:36:41.480fundamental question is that that everyone needs to be wrestling with is what does it mean to be
00:36:45.340human and how does this increase our capacity to be more like christ or not and what these guys
00:36:52.660often focus on is they absolutely ignore like that you can look back on the internet that's fine
00:36:58.820and notice he painted it all in just this rosy like look how much better life is and i'm like
00:37:04.540man like i don't yeah sure we have great tech i can be on the show with you because of the internet
00:37:09.560uh right there's wonderful things that have come out of the internet there's also terrible terrible
00:37:13.840terrible things and it's it led to disastrous consequences formationally uh in terms of what
00:37:20.260it means to be human what it means to thrive in life what it means to grow to maturity what it
00:37:24.020means to be satisfied and content what it means to love the lord god with all your heart soul
00:37:27.760mind and strength and love others as yourself they're not they're not incongruent like they
00:37:31.500it's not like we need to be one no bear and just go uh uh farm or something and go back to an
00:37:36.080agrarian lifestyle although that that would uh that would solve a lot of issues in its own way
00:37:40.240in terms of men and women but it it's just like they totally just are it seems like they're full0.97
00:37:45.780of pride where they have no capacity for humility and and uh not just counting the consequence not
00:37:52.460like a consequence uh consequence uh an argument by consequences they don't even have the ability
00:37:59.520to go like yeah it's also produced a lot of evil and so like what are we going to do about that how
00:38:03.440are we going to either mitigate that or what are we going to do and i yeah that's a totally fair
00:38:06.640point and it's very weird and um yeah yeah again as i know i'm somebody who has like i would only
00:38:13.720i only have this job now because of the internet right like clearly i never would have been able
00:38:19.880to climb i never would have been able to build my own brand and and and get the level of audience
00:38:25.540that i have uh built without that like i tried to go through the mainstream machine i was entirely
00:38:30.280rejected never even got through the door so i'm thoroughly aware of like the value of this
00:38:36.000technology at the same time is my job worth the fact that the average man uh is still unmarried
00:38:44.040at 30 years old like is it is my job still worth the fact that the average child is spending you
00:38:50.700know 12 hours a day in front of the screen like these are the questions that i struggle with and
00:38:55.020i again i know there's some level of inevitability to this i understand that i i'm i'm not the guy
00:39:01.620who thinks that ultimately we can just throw ourselves into the gears of the machine and
00:39:05.680shut it down. But I'm just asking for people to slow down and think about this for a second
00:39:12.320and consider if there isn't some way we can implement this with a guardrail that protects
00:39:18.740humanity and the future of our employment and our environment and all of these things.
00:39:24.440There are a lot of people who are currently getting eminent domain so that new data centers
00:39:29.840can be built. They're having their water polluted. They're having their electricity removed.
00:39:34.840Like, these are things that are just happening at the beginning of this revolution. We haven't even gotten to the jobs or any other apocalyptic predictions. We're just talking about this. And so I just think that that's a conversation worth having, even if perhaps it's ultimately doomed to not solve the problem.
00:39:50.980All right. So, Chase, you have a new book coming out, Offensive Christianity, a term that I think most people would probably blink a few times at when they see it on the shelf.
00:40:03.780Isn't the purpose of modern Christianity to simply be like the most soft, accepting, demure thing in the world?
00:40:13.500Aren't all Christians just supposed to be the least offensive human beings in the world?
00:40:18.980how could you name a book offensive christianity yeah it's incredible i mean believe it or not0.95
00:40:23.460jesus christ did not come to make us a bunch of doormats uh in every aspect of our life uh
00:40:28.980shocker i know and it really does connect to what we were talking about earlier a lot of people
00:40:32.640because my book the work is deeply connected to what it means to be a man what does it mean to be
00:40:37.940made uh in god's image and how does it play out and today what we've had in the last century is
00:40:44.000a lot of work that's been done to basically hollow out men, to neuter and geld them, to make them
00:40:49.440powerless and less agenic, and recast Christ as some kind of pacifist instead of the king of kings
00:40:56.800and lord of lords. So a lot of people when they come to LLMs, like we were talking about, they
00:41:01.260think it's very human. They're like, this is just a human I'm talking to. It's like, no, it's not a
00:41:05.300human. And we've reduced our humanity so much that we think that talking to a chatbot on a screen is
00:41:10.320like, this is human interaction. It's like, no, it's not. This is not what it means to be human.
00:41:15.160And that just reflects the crisis that particularly men are in today. So my book mainly, almost0.94
00:41:21.280exclusively talks about the nature of men, what they were made for. My thesis is that they're
00:41:26.020made for glory. Ultimately, that glory is found in eternity in Jesus Christ. But for the longest
00:41:34.140time now, most people, like you mentioned, have conceived of Christianity as kind of this wet
00:41:40.040blanket that produces weak and woke men, that produces men that are unable to articulate and
00:41:45.100defend their faith or defend their nation in a Christ-like manner. Many of our big Eva kind of0.59
00:41:50.920overlords, the academicians, the pastors, the people in charge, they have suggested that basically,
00:41:58.320one, you definitely can't be right wing. Two, there's nothing in our Christian history
00:42:03.640that would legitimize the use of force, power, or deterrence in order to stop what is happening
00:42:09.360to our nation. And I couldn't more utterly disagree with this. And that's why I wrote the
00:42:13.320book, is I'm trying to show from history and from theological anthropology, the study of man,
00:42:19.220what they were designed for, and how they can reclaim their agency, reclaim their kind of
00:42:24.960masculine energy and power in their life and do it biblically and understand the Bible biblically.
00:42:31.000So many of these passages that have just been ripped out of context to basically suggest that
00:42:37.020civilizational suicide is next to godliness. Like this is just insanity. And it disgusts me.
00:42:44.460And that does come through in the book in some places. But the bigger picture, the positive
00:42:50.360vision for men is, look, it doesn't not only does Christianity not create need or need to create a
00:42:56.680bunch of weak, passive men who will not defend their homes, will not defend their nation. But
00:43:01.860in fact, it gives you all the resources you do need to have a strong theological, biblically
00:43:07.960sound, legitimate defense of life, and legitimate way to engage in the world that's much more
00:43:14.260satisfying than being a people pleaser and a nice guy everywhere you go.
00:43:18.020When you travel well, your KLM Royal Dutch Airlines ticket takes you to more than just your destination.
00:43:25.300It takes you to winding streets, spontaneous detours, and the realisation that neither of you is actually good with directions.
00:43:34.460And when the final shortcut taken isn't exactly short,
00:43:39.200our crew is here to give you a trip home that goes just as planned.
00:43:46.500I think this is so important because one of the things we hear today from those who, you know, want to see some kind of change in the West, but often will deride Christianity, one of the things that they'll say is, well, Christianity got us here, right?
00:44:05.440they won't fight you on we were a christian country they say yeah that's the problem
00:44:09.320that this is where christianity takes you it tells you to let your enemy kill you it tells you
00:44:14.980that you have to forgive your enemy and therefore that must mean of course that you must submit to
00:44:19.080them at every turn never hold power it tells you not to fight for anything these are the ideas that
00:44:24.180they have about christianity and you know mainly because this is what the media has told you this
00:44:29.060is what even large churches have told you that is what christianity is supposed to be you're supposed0.97
00:44:33.920to be a doormat you're supposed to take a beating especially as a man you should never have any0.81
00:44:37.860agency you should never have any assertiveness any attempt to you know point out the truth or0.76
00:44:42.920put any kind of restrictions on someone or enforce any kind of principle or exercise power these are
00:44:47.680all very bad traits these you know these masculine traits are actually evil and so we have to purge
00:44:54.260them and of course i think we've seen the rise of a incredibly feminine christianity mainly because
00:45:02.320the church was dominated for the last few decades by women men fell away from the church now we're
00:45:08.240seeing that shift we're seeing a lot of men come back and hopefully that has a mix but the fact
00:45:12.880that you know we're seeing the push for like female pastors from you know places like the
00:45:17.220southern baptist convention like that's not an accident i think these are tied together and i
00:45:21.920think you do have to address those criticisms if you want people to take christianity seriously
00:45:27.160as a way to revivify the American spirit and kind of the masculine identity that would allow it to
00:45:34.360carry forward. Yeah, so many of our churches have become feminized, and you can just see it in the
00:45:38.720way they carry themselves, project themselves, their marketing, what they talk about, what they
00:45:43.120don't talk about, and how they talk about those things, the very music they play. And so I'm a
00:45:48.860big believer in going back to Christian history, going back to understanding the faith of our
00:45:54.440forefathers, honestly. What was the Christianity that our forefathers believed? You had a mix
00:45:59.260of Presbyterians, Anglicans, Baptists, Congregationalists, all at the founding,0.98
00:46:04.500and none of the Protestant heritage that we have as Americans seem to run contrary to throwing off
00:46:11.760the British Empire and declaring independence from them. And yet all the teaching, all the
00:46:17.860teaching you're going to get out there when you go and you find these big-name pastors,
00:46:22.320big name Christian thinkers who are popular today, it would totally just cut men off at
00:46:28.880the knees from ever trying to assert such independence, agency, acting in their own0.79
00:46:35.020interest. I mean, all of that would seem incongruous to the Christian faith, to the modern0.59
00:46:40.040man. And I'm like, no, we need to go back. We need to understand the faith that they understood.0.79
00:46:45.900And that's, again, this is the last time I'll mention it, but this is part of the reason I'm
00:46:49.060not just trying to write this book to equip men and call them to something greater, call them to
00:46:53.520be Christ-like in every aspect, call them to pursue glory, pursue eternal glory in Jesus Christ.
00:46:59.100But I'm also trying to resource them with resources. One thing I found is I want to go
00:47:03.440read what the founders read. I want to read the theology that hasn't been polluted by feminism,
00:47:07.880which is pretty much everything in the second half of the 20th century. If you're an evangelical,
00:47:11.920that's what you've been reading many times, especially books on manhood. We saw this with
00:47:15.780like men's retreats and wild at heart and many other kind of men's movements in the 90s and
00:47:20.9802000s, where basically what it meant to be a good whole man was to become more womanly was basically
00:47:26.280to go to men's retreat and cry more to get more in touch with your emotions, up your emotional
00:47:30.160intelligence. How did we get here? Well, I think we've forgotten the sources. And so that's why
00:47:35.720I've referenced before my website, commonplace.study. That's why I built a site was so that
00:47:40.420I myself can access sources, you can access sources, you can see what our forefathers were
00:47:44.940actually believing and reading because I'm so tired of these publishers getting away with these
00:47:49.240feminized books that are just rampant. I mean, it's the latest, greatest book most Christians0.99
00:47:54.180are going to read at a coffee shop, whether it's John Mark Homer or something else. They're going
00:47:58.320to read these kind of therapeutic books that teach men godliness. In order for you to become godly,
00:48:05.140you need to suppress or at least you need to at least suppress, if not obliterate your masculine
00:48:10.340nature, your power, your desire for competition, for victory, for dominion, and you need to become1.00
00:48:16.800more like a woman. And I just, I find this repugnant. Women are wonderfully made. Men are1.00
00:48:22.860wonderfully made. We should honor both. We should do what the Bible says in terms of relationship
00:48:27.440roles. We should understand how they were designed, how they were hardwired, especially biologically.
00:48:32.920And over the last half century, we've seen men in America, I think even globally, just to use one
00:48:38.420example biologically their testosterone has just dropped off a cliff um that affects our ability
00:48:43.520to reproduce to have a civilization um that's going to affect how we present christianity to
00:48:49.460the world it's going to understand it's going to affect how we connect with the lord and with
00:48:52.460others and it's no surprise to me that as the general population that testosterone has decreased
00:48:59.820what we see in the pulpit is low t christianity is kind of this effeminate posturing this bowing
00:49:07.360down to the gods of our age, too afraid to offend anyone. When we see that Jesus Christ himself was
00:49:12.540not afraid to offend, Jesus was not afraid to offend. His disciples, Matthew 15, actually it's
00:49:19.120almost an example of tone policing. I don't think they were tone policing, but they say, did you
00:49:22.280know that you offended the Pharisees? And Jesus goes, yeah, I meant to. They needed to be offended.0.73
00:49:27.680And here's why. And he explains why. This idea that Christianity cannot be offensive just runs
00:49:32.920totally contrary to the scriptures. We need to be men of prudence, wisdom, maturity. Of course,
00:49:38.420we shouldn't just go around trying to be offending everyone all the time. That's foolishness. That's0.67
00:49:43.660not how the Bible teaches. But what we're trying to do is reclaim that masculine thumos is what I0.99
00:49:48.760talk about in the book, the power, the agency, the love of life, the joyous living of living
00:49:54.800before the face of God and pursuing glory together. And that's what I'm trying to equip
00:49:58.580men to do so chase i i love that you're writing a book like this i think it's critical and i love
00:50:05.800that you're imploring you know young men to look to previous christian civilizations church fathers
00:50:13.280founding fathers leaders of our faith to ultimately kind of rediscover that this was not the case you
00:50:20.300whenever i have this discussion with some kind of online pagan it's always like well christianity
00:50:25.000you can never can't fight anything it's like i don't know man tell that to charles martel tell
00:50:29.860that to charlemagne you know like it's sorry i hate to break this to you but there's a long
00:50:33.980history of conquering powerful christians however i will say this i love i love the encouragement
00:50:40.900but i think that for a lot of people especially even some conservatives they're going to be
00:50:46.640hesitant to look back at that for the same reason they're currently hesitant to look back at say
00:50:51.780our founding fathers when it comes to what america is what what is an american well john jay tells us
00:50:57.260right like we don't have to guess at that kind of stuff but that opens up all kinds of scary things
00:51:02.380it turns out that these you know these church fathers these founding fathers they're actually
00:51:06.580like really patriarchal and they have a very real and serious understandings of like what male and
00:51:13.040female roles should be and what marriage should look like and how society should be structured
00:51:17.500And most of these things are really, um, offensive actually. Like they even have views on, you know, race and other things that, you know, are actually compatible with Christianity, but are very not liberal and very not modern. And these are things that we are not allowed to think about. You could be, you could be part of the woke, right? If you're, if you're looking into these things.
00:51:39.820So I think it's great. And I think it's a good way for people to look at their history, understand their faith better, recapture those understandings that were very masculine. But at the same time, I think it's also going to run up against those same problems, because I think even many conservatives and Christians are not ready for real historical Christianity than they are for real historical Americanism.
00:52:04.360Yeah, I totally agree. And I think they're deeply connected. And that's why I really focus on the nature of men. I mean, Matt Walsh, I thought it was a fantastic documentary. What is a woman? I think the answer at the end was a little flat in terms of being satisfying. It was good enough biologically. But what about the men?
00:52:21.880you know the new york times is asking where are the men everyone wants to know where the men
00:52:26.000i think when to me i don't want to make it too linear but our political kind of outworking and
00:52:33.540how we do politics is going to be based in how we understand the nature of men and his intended
00:52:37.860purpose and each every man is made with a body and soul that's how god designed us and uh you
00:52:44.560mentioned earlier in the episode about kind of disembodied spirits right there is a time in the
00:52:49.220intermediate state where we will be disembodied, but that's not the end destination. We will be
00:52:55.340before the Lord, and then we will be reunited with our bodies in the end. Our bodies were made with
00:52:59.540a purpose. The biology that we have matters, and it matters more than just being able to define
00:53:03.320male or female. It matters intrinsically for building civilizations because it's men who
00:53:08.060build civilizations. I mean, that's irrefutable throughout history. No great world power has
00:53:14.160ever arisen from women. That's just facts. That's just history. And so what I'm trying to offer1.00
00:53:20.880people is not just a confrontation with, yes, the kind of like those on the right who are more pagan0.93
00:53:28.120in their perspective that would suggest Christianity is not just useless, but harmful0.68
00:53:32.740to our civilizational kind of reclamation project, but also those Christians who are0.98
00:53:38.540weak and confused on these issues. And my heart is for men to reclaim and understand the life0.92
00:53:45.740when Jesus said, I've come to give them life and life to the full. I want men to live life to the
00:53:50.620full. I want them to stop being resentful and bitter and looking around at blaming other people,
00:53:57.300not that there's not people to blame, not that there's not reasons that you could be resentful.
00:54:01.840I want them to live full of life to the glory of God and everything they do. And I think we've
00:54:06.260overcomplicated it and made it seem like in order to live life, uh, to the glory of God,
00:54:12.360that just means some kind of like hippie out in the woods crying because of the sunset,
00:54:17.040you know, like that's what a lot of people, uh, interpret true spirituality is even Christians,
00:54:22.000you know, it's, it's a lot of mountaintop experiences. It's a lot of kind of these
00:54:26.140therapeutic emotional, uh, connections with some kind of divine being. And I'm like, look,
00:54:32.080this is not what Christianity promotes. Here's what Christianity promotes. We want strong,0.82
00:54:38.080virtuous men who are full of wisdom and maturity. And my book is just one of many resources,
00:54:43.280but I think one that's unique that can help men understand their nature and live more into their
00:54:48.920nature, more in line with God's word. So that ultimately what I want to see is America saved.
00:54:54.580I want to see America, not just saved from its enemies, but I want to see America turn back to
00:54:58.340the Lord. And I want to see more people come to understand how God has designed them.
00:55:03.600Amen. And guys, let me remind you that, you know, I, I talk a lot about the problems we have
00:55:11.900in the world on this show. And I think that's important. I don't think it does anyone any good
00:55:16.840to be some kind of fake cheerleader, to sell you some bill of goods, how victory is right around
00:55:22.240the corner and it's going to be really easy and all this stuff. But ultimately we have to recognize
00:55:28.720that this is not, we don't go through the things that are wrong just so we can then wallow in
00:55:35.080self-pity or give up or black pill or any of these things. Yeah. It turns out that actually, uh, just,
00:55:41.360you know, Jesus and a few other guys were against the entire Roman empire. That's probably a pretty0.99
00:55:46.960rough climb, like probably even worse than what we have to do. And our climb is not easy, but
00:55:52.080comparatively it's nowhere close to what Christ and his followers had to do. And yet they won at
00:55:57.600the end, right? Because ultimately Christ is King. And that's what you need to be doing. If you are
00:56:02.340finding yourself in despair, if you're finding yourself in a moment where you feel hopeless,
00:56:05.920if you ultimately find yourself blaming others for where you're at, yes, you need to get up.
00:56:09.960Yes. You need to clean your room. Yes. You need to do all that Jordan Peterson stuff,
00:56:12.820but also you need to find Christ and you need to put your faith in Christ because ultimately
00:56:16.660that is what's going to get through all of those times. That is the ultimate victory from which
00:56:21.500all other victories are going to flow. And that's always going to give you the reason to push forward
00:56:26.500even when it seems like things are bleak. So Chase, we got to go to the questions of the
00:56:30.640people here real quick. But before we do, where do people find your book? It is out now over at
00:56:35.940Founders Press. The best way to buy it is go to offensivechristianitybook.com. There's a link right
00:56:41.240there that goes to Founders website. You're going to get a hardcover when you order it today.
00:56:46.660Uh, next week, it's going to be out on Amazon. If you follow me on social at JJ Stavis,
00:56:50.840you will be sure to know when it's on Amazon. I will let you know when it's on Amazon,
00:56:54.600but it'll be there next week. But today it's out. Now you can go pick it up.
00:56:58.240Offensive Christianity book.com. There you go. You can pick it up today, guys. Don't wait.0.77
00:57:02.980Uh, but eventually it'll be on Amazon too. If you need to. All right, let's get our questions
00:57:08.200done real quick. Let's see. Sean Weiland says problem is that Thorsten Veblen cartels for,
00:57:15.860electricity, chip production, et cetera, are not adding production of supply. They're just
00:57:21.740increasing prices. Yeah. And this is, again, my issue across the board here. This reminds me quite
00:57:28.320a bit of Sam Francis's explanation of the dematerialization of property. Yes, technically,
00:57:37.980we're increasing the technology, the sophistication, but it's being concentrated
00:57:43.840in the hands of smaller and smaller amounts of people who have total control over that compute
00:57:48.440so yeah you you have more demand and everyone's like oh well i'm a libertarian i believe in
00:57:53.560capitalism of course they'll create more of this stuff what if they can't what if there's actually
00:57:57.600a pretty finite amount of production right now because like we're literally considering going
00:58:02.280to war over taiwan because production is so limited so obviously you know ideally yes like
00:58:07.960market conditions would produce more of this but they haven't yet and they didn't produce more
00:58:13.240antibiotic production or anything else so i guess my concern as i already previously stated is that
00:58:19.280this is all going to centralize into the hands of the very people who have already you know
00:58:23.880completely screwed us over in every other aspect of our lives and now they're just going to control
00:58:28.300all the compute power um in the technology we told we had to have what they really mean is they0.97
00:58:34.000had to have it because like to be clear the very first thing ai is going to do is not create jobs
00:58:40.320it's going to create totalitarianism like 100 the very first thing every government is going to do
00:58:45.560with like true very powerful ai is spy on literally everything you do and consolidate
00:58:51.560all that information and use it to control your life like i'm sorry there's just no way that's
00:58:56.720not going to happen if you have paid any attention to what's going on and so this rushed ai is like
00:59:01.400well we have to control it's like well who's the we right because like i i know i understand why
00:59:05.580americans would want to be in front of china but will the people running america care about like
00:59:11.080that ultimately like they only want to keep out in front of china so they can benefit them i i think
00:59:15.940the way they'll keep in front of china is to introduce more chinese style social controls
00:59:20.040in the united states and ai will be a key to that that that's my real concern is that the people who
00:59:25.640are so excited about free market progress are literally building the system in which they will
00:59:30.600be surveilled in gulag digitally um well while talking about how amazing the free market is
00:59:35.600uh but anyway sean also says as elon musk warned training llms to lie to us to be the uh to be pc
00:59:45.360will end in disaster like how uh unaliving its crew in 2001 space odyssey yeah again you don't
00:59:51.960have to we people always do this thing this one two step where they're like well you think that
00:59:57.100ai is going to be god and so if it doesn't become god it can't be dangerous like no no no there are
01:00:02.120all kinds of medium-term dangers to ai like it can get advanced not so much more than it is now
01:00:09.020but if it's integrated into everything it's going to kill your car when the government tells you0.68
01:00:13.020to it's going to uh mess up things and kill people on a regular basis like because it doesn't
01:00:18.460understand the process because it doesn't have the level of reasoning that you want to believe it has
01:00:22.620There are all kinds of problems that will arise without AI becoming this anti-Christ super being.0.98
01:00:31.220It can just be dumb computers and still ruin your life.
01:00:35.120And if the LLMs are trained to lie to us, I do think not only will it end a disaster like unaliving the crew in 2001 Space Odyssey, but it will totally erode confidence in AI.0.95
01:00:47.200It will trick, like you said, much of the population into believing lies.
01:00:51.380but for those who are already primed uh with suspicions uh rightfully so on many areas it
01:00:58.240will just further justify uh kind of like why we can't trust this stuff because it already does
01:01:03.440it makes stuff up it hallucinates oh absolutely uh you know it's going to and and nobody will be
01:01:09.560honest about the parameters that's what really frustrates me nobody's being honest about how
01:01:14.800they're designing these systems and the parameters the inputs and when you've got a moral philosopher1.00
01:01:18.860from, I believe it's Edinburgh again, a woman who's coming in to design the kind of moral0.75
01:01:23.900framework for Anthropic, that should be not just alarming, but we should demand transparency. I'm0.97
01:01:28.820like, what are you telling it to produce on the screen? And what is it not allowed to talk about
01:01:32.860like that? That's really, at least bugs me. I assume it bugs other people too. I don't like
01:01:37.300that stuff. Jacob Zendel says, AI will replace lawyers first. No, AI will replace paralegals,
01:01:45.020law consultants admins at major law firms trial lawyers will never be replaced until bots are
01:01:50.320allowed to take the bar exam good for independent lawyers that's true at some level the problem is
01:01:56.080it's going to eliminate all those like lighter ladder climbing positions in law firms right
01:02:01.000so at some level it will now allow entrepreneurial lawyers to go out and have their own practices and
01:02:07.980not have to hire these massive teams but of course if you don't have those teams what happens to all
01:02:13.000the other people who were like moving towards becoming a lawyer in the law profession i know
01:02:17.660efficiency is better i understand that like i get that at some level but i i just remember that like
01:02:24.640again 80 of people aren't the that top percentage that's going to ultimately benefit this and we
01:02:31.640can't just pretend those people are going to be fine like that that that's not i think a reasonable
01:02:36.660assumption we have we have to think about the consequences of that looks like jacob uh sent
01:02:42.120the same one there thank you again sir appreciate that uh sean says again great uh feminization is
01:02:48.480downstream of 2008 gfc and china shock only feminine demand in inducement jobs remain in
01:02:55.380america masculine jobs sent to china i think the timeline on that is uh way too short i think that
01:03:00.760became in the 1960s but you're right like you're ultimately correct that that is the trajectory i
01:03:04.960would just draw that causality far far earlier but i think that's correct i draw it all the way back
01:03:10.340to the enlightenment so you know yeah there you go that's that's how that's how we play the base
01:03:14.860game well i draw it back to the protestant reformation well i draw it back to you know
01:03:18.640like the founding of the roman empire uh andy carter uh or andy carter says a long time listener
01:03:26.600first time catching you live thanks for your great streams for the great guests that i really enjoy
01:03:31.080well thank you very much man i appreciate that uh it's so great that we do have the live audience
01:03:35.760that we do but i also know that it's a significant amount of you guys have to catch it after the
01:03:40.280fact on spotify or apple or youtube or whatever but remember uh we always love to have you during
01:03:46.420the live stream so make sure you have the bell click the notifications so you know when we're
01:03:50.360going live because often people don't know when it clicks over youtubes i've had this thing where
01:03:55.600youtube is suddenly like subscribing me to like random ai slop channels that i never clicked on
01:04:01.300and like burying content that i actually want to watch so make sure you're you're actually getting
01:04:06.060those streams when you want to listen. But thank you once again, Andy, really appreciate it.
01:04:11.040All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up. Once again, always fantastic speaking
01:04:14.800with Chase. Make sure that you are heading out and grabbing Offensive Christianity today. It is1.00
01:04:19.900available on the Founders website. And of course, if it's your first time on this channel, subscribe,
01:04:24.600like I said, bell notifications, all that stuff. Make sure that if you want to get these broadcasts
01:04:28.680as podcasts, you subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. When you do, leave that rating
01:04:33.180or review it always helps with the algorithm magic and my book the total state is out in its
01:04:37.420second printing paperback it's got an extra chapter so if you want to grab that now you
01:04:41.380can do that on amazon thank you everybody for watching and as always i will talk to you next time