The Auron MacIntyre Show - 'Zero Seats' and the Future of British Populism ｜ Guest： Morgoth

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00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, how's it going?

00:00:31.800 Thanks for joining me this afternoon.

00:00:33.460 I've got a great stream with a great guest that I think you're really going to enjoy.

00:00:37.420 We tend to be a pretty U.S.-centric show here,

00:00:40.680 but of course, we have a lot of listeners from across the pond,

00:00:44.300 and the world of U.K. politics has gotten pretty wild.

00:00:47.680 Here recently, there's been a lot of changes,

00:00:50.460 possibly a seismic shift in the way that the election is going to work,

00:00:54.240 the upcoming election.

00:00:55.200 And so I wanted to bring on one of my favorite sub-stackers and YouTubers

00:00:58.920 to discuss the situation over in the U.K.

00:01:02.920 Morgoth, thank you so much for coming on, man.

00:01:05.460 No problem.

00:01:06.180 Thank you for having me back again, all right?

00:01:08.780 Yeah, I want to dive in with this to you because it's always interesting.

00:01:11.680 We end up with these wild situations, and the question is,

00:01:14.880 is this the one?

00:01:16.160 Is this the big shift?

00:01:17.300 Is this the time that we're going to see a serious change,

00:01:20.220 or is it another one of these half measures?

00:01:23.820 It feels like something real is happening in England to some extent,

00:01:27.460 but there could be very serious consequences as well.

00:01:30.320 So we'll dive into a little bit of the history of how the situation got this way in the U.K.,

00:01:36.000 and then what you think will come out of it.

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00:03:06.360 All right, Morgoth.

00:03:07.480 So for Americans who might not be familiar

00:03:10.120 with some of the dynamics of British party politics,

00:03:13.720 the Conservative Party has been in charge for a very long time over there,

00:03:18.500 which sounds good, right?

00:03:19.960 That's what you would like in theory.

00:03:22.480 But in practice, it seems that there's been a lot of leading the left

00:03:27.160 from the right in England.

00:03:28.920 It feels like in many ways the Conservative Party is actually driving a lot

00:03:33.100 of this leftward shift in England.

00:03:35.880 Can you explain kind of the dynamic between the Conservative Party and Labour?

00:03:41.460 Yeah, I mean, basically when they came in, which was 14 years ago now,

00:03:48.020 with David Cameron, they had the view that they would just be the heirs to Blair.

00:03:54.460 I mean, somebody put it quite funny.

00:03:58.240 John Carter on Subsac said they were patriots in the streets,

00:04:01.560 but Blairites in the sheets.

00:04:03.940 And that's exactly what they were.

00:04:05.120 All of the quangos and all of these sort of NGOs

00:04:08.160 and all of these extra regulatory bodies

00:04:11.180 and all of these things that makes Blairism work.

00:04:15.000 The Tories actually just expanded on it all

00:04:17.300 and didn't throw any of it out.

00:04:18.820 And this sort of led the way where there's this...

00:04:23.000 I mean, there's so many memes you see going around.

00:04:25.460 Just to take the immigration situation,

00:04:27.560 they were voted in on a promise to reduce immigration,

00:04:31.180 which was at highs of sort of 300,000 per year

00:04:35.500 under the previous Labour government.

00:04:38.460 And they've consistently lied.

00:04:41.260 At every election since, they've said,

00:04:43.860 we'll bring it down, we'll bring it down.

00:04:45.280 And the line on the graph only ever goes up to the degree.

00:04:50.320 And I think this plays into where we are now.

00:04:52.780 There's so much else I could get into.

00:04:56.000 Because all of the woke, crazy LGBT, the rainbow flags,

00:05:00.140 all of that happened on the Tories' watch,

00:05:02.920 as well as the pandemic, all these things.

00:05:06.380 And I think the immigration numbers hit such extraordinary heights

00:05:13.940 in the last few years, where they went over,

00:05:16.780 for the first time, over a million in a year,

00:05:19.980 which is just preposterous.

00:05:23.300 And I think it's reached such a point

00:05:25.780 where infrastructure is just beginning to break down now.

00:05:29.780 For example, even if you want to just take

00:05:32.300 the ethnic side of it out of it, you know,

00:05:35.560 which used to be more of the kind of arguments

00:05:38.840 that I would make.

00:05:39.800 And I would regard discussion around housing

00:05:43.300 or how many people are here and overcrowding

00:05:45.740 as being kind of weak sauce and a bit of a cop-out.

00:05:48.400 But it has actually reached the point

00:05:50.720 where people just can't get houses anymore.

00:05:53.000 And people have seen endlessly.

00:05:55.840 The numbers coming across in what they call small boats

00:05:59.260 is minor compared to who are flying straight

00:06:02.360 into the airports and chain migration.

00:06:05.260 But it's more visible.

00:06:06.980 And these men actually got put up

00:06:08.540 in these five-star hotels.

00:06:11.420 And it was just...

00:06:12.580 People just became completely despondent.

00:06:16.380 And when we began heading into the election,

00:06:20.620 in our circle, so Academic Agent came up

00:06:23.740 with the zero-seats meme,

00:06:25.600 and I latched onto that quite early as well.

00:06:27.960 Because I've got, like, a visceral hatred

00:06:30.200 of the Tory parties.

00:06:32.240 And the way that we're sort of stuck, of course,

00:06:35.980 which is similar to what you have in America,

00:06:40.180 is where you kind of vote for the least worst.

00:06:43.840 So whenever election time comes around,

00:06:47.080 which is why the Tories have been in for so long,

00:06:49.960 people on the right will say,

00:06:51.980 yeah, I hate the Tories.

00:06:53.080 They'll stab us in the back,

00:06:54.140 but they're always worse than Labour.

00:06:56.140 But the Tories have been so bad

00:06:58.980 that that's actually a difficult argument to make.

00:07:01.600 And in actual fact, somebody like Academic Agent

00:07:03.620 would actually run the numbers on it

00:07:05.500 and say, actually, no,

00:07:06.540 they have been...

00:07:07.760 It is the Tories who are actually the accelerant

00:07:11.160 of crazy progressivism in this country.

00:07:14.340 And so all of this was going on

00:07:16.780 with just the sort of squalor

00:07:19.540 and dilapidation and ruination of...

00:07:22.140 In terms of infrastructure,

00:07:25.820 even the little things,

00:07:27.400 you just can't get a dentist appointment anymore.

00:07:30.940 There's a seven-year waiting list on the NHS.

00:07:34.700 There's six million people waiting to see

00:07:37.240 for basic surgeries and things on the NHS.

00:07:40.500 Everything is falling apart.

00:07:42.060 And it is because just the sheer amount of people

00:07:46.400 that's coming in.

00:07:47.820 It's the equivalent to about three DED landings per year

00:07:52.000 going in the wrong direction,

00:07:53.980 coming in one.

00:07:56.200 So in terms of sort of...

00:07:58.300 You know, people will say the government are incompetent,

00:08:00.400 and I've said for a long time,

00:08:02.540 actually, they're not.

00:08:03.840 It's actually...

00:08:04.900 If you just want to look at it objectively,

00:08:07.160 it's a sort of brilliant feat of managerial expertise

00:08:12.100 to, in the teeth of public opposition,

00:08:15.940 bring in hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people

00:08:18.320 every year, process them,

00:08:20.020 get them housed, get them clothed,

00:08:21.740 get them on the tax system,

00:08:23.600 get them on the benefits,

00:08:24.860 or whatever it happens to be.

00:08:26.100 It's just that it's purely malicious and evil.

00:08:29.160 And so when we were heading into this election,

00:08:32.020 we were kicking the zero seats meme around

00:08:35.000 just as a kind of to hammer the Tories

00:08:37.980 and say, look, the Tories have to be destroyed as a party

00:08:41.220 and we're done with this business of Labour are going to...

00:08:45.140 It's big, scary Labour are going to come along,

00:08:48.020 make things worse.

00:08:49.160 And it was a way to say, actually, no,

00:08:51.120 when we're done with this,

00:08:52.860 we will just take Labour

00:08:54.620 rather than endure this any longer.

00:08:56.840 So this was kind of where we were.

00:09:02.000 And then just a few weeks ago,

00:09:04.200 the Tories were just historically unpopular

00:09:06.340 and the main bulk of the population

00:09:08.720 were kind of checked out from the system.

00:09:13.320 They won't have had enough.

00:09:14.500 Because over on the left in Labour,

00:09:16.440 you've got problems of their own

00:09:18.400 with sort of the Israel situation

00:09:20.740 and their own voter base,

00:09:22.680 because they cleared out the Corbynites on the left,

00:09:27.540 but that's a whole other story.

00:09:28.960 And they were left with just neoliberal technocrats as well.

00:09:33.180 And so there was this sense

00:09:34.640 that actually probably almost nobody's going to turn out to vote.

00:09:39.200 And so then you had...

00:09:41.680 There's a kind of small clustering of parties

00:09:44.100 to the right of the Tories.

00:09:46.760 And they're all kind of called like reclaim or reform

00:09:51.860 or, you know, reunite or re-this and re-that.

00:09:55.920 And they never seemed to get anywhere.

00:09:58.300 But then Farage came and took hold of the Reform Party,

00:10:02.300 which was, I think, the Brexit Party

00:10:04.860 and related to the Brexit campaign.

00:10:07.620 And he took over a few weeks ago.

00:10:11.640 And it just seems to have set the whole thing on fire.

00:10:15.520 And so to the degree

00:10:18.580 where they have actually overtaken the Tories and the polls,

00:10:22.080 and people now can come out, you know, on social media

00:10:25.340 and they can say,

00:10:26.520 well, actually, at this point,

00:10:28.480 if you vote for the Tories, you're voting for Labour.

00:10:31.600 It's swung the other way.

00:10:33.020 Like, basically...

00:10:34.200 And people are now saying that the Tories,

00:10:36.440 that they have to step down

00:10:37.520 because they're splitting the right-wing vote

00:10:39.180 and all of this kind of thing.

00:10:40.600 So there's a positive energy.

00:10:43.020 And he's telling...

00:10:44.440 You know, if you look at the Reform Manifesto,

00:10:47.500 it's surprisingly based.

00:10:51.440 But it's kind of like a smorgasbord

00:10:54.160 of, like, things that you want to hear.

00:10:56.840 So, you know,

00:10:58.640 I'm kind of in a situation where

00:11:00.500 I feel...

00:11:02.500 I feel...

00:11:03.100 When it comes to populism on the right,

00:11:04.960 I feel like a battered housewife.

00:11:06.800 Whenever these sort of Lotharios

00:11:10.820 come swaggering in the room,

00:11:14.060 carrying their bunch of flowers

00:11:15.540 and a box of chocolates,

00:11:17.280 I think, oh, great.

00:11:18.660 I really want to get up.

00:11:19.700 But on the other hand,

00:11:20.320 is this going to be like a smack in the mouth later?

00:11:22.640 Like, what's the catch here?

00:11:24.860 It'll be different this time, Morgoth.

00:11:26.420 I promise.

00:11:26.760 Yeah, it's going to be different this time.

00:11:29.240 And so there's a...

00:11:30.420 The election is on the 4th of July.

00:11:34.500 And okay, I'm trying to be cynical.

00:11:38.300 I'm trying to sort of, you know,

00:11:40.620 keep my realist sort of hat on

00:11:43.760 and think it...

00:11:45.200 And analyse it from the different perspectives.

00:11:48.800 Because just to sort of broaden it out a little bit,

00:11:51.900 the...

00:11:52.940 To go back,

00:11:56.120 when the...

00:11:57.360 Wishi Sunak announced the election,

00:11:59.320 which was farcical, by the way.

00:12:01.040 He was standing and pouring down rain and everything.

00:12:05.180 Their campaign was so shambolic.

00:12:07.840 And I can go through a few points in a bit

00:12:09.860 on just some of the clunk as that's happened.

00:12:12.240 But my take was that,

00:12:15.160 actually, I think somebody somewhere,

00:12:18.800 you know, the Council of Foreign Relations

00:12:20.600 or the Bank of England

00:12:21.740 or people with clout

00:12:23.700 have decided it's time to clear the Tories out

00:12:26.860 and get Labour in

00:12:28.440 because something big is coming down the pipeline.

00:12:31.160 Now, is that going to be war with Russia

00:12:33.360 or more geopolitical strife

00:12:36.340 or is it going to be economic disaster

00:12:38.380 or I don't know what.

00:12:40.080 But my view was

00:12:41.640 it's time to take the sort of

00:12:44.400 the nag of the Tory party

00:12:46.740 and just take it out of pasture

00:12:48.620 and let it lie there

00:12:49.800 and we can get Labour in with a huge majority

00:12:52.820 and we can clear the decks

00:12:54.840 and batten down the hatches

00:12:56.080 because there's something big coming.

00:12:57.800 That was my general feeling about it.

00:13:00.460 But then all of a sudden

00:13:01.780 it was there forage and reform

00:13:03.800 and there was all of this

00:13:05.640 sort of populism was back on the menu

00:13:09.460 and it's all about the immigration

00:13:11.580 and he has genuinely turned it

00:13:14.020 into the immigration election.

00:13:17.040 And so everybody,

00:13:17.920 it's as if everybody's just been starved

00:13:20.520 of this kind of,

00:13:21.640 these kinds of talking points.

00:13:24.060 And yeah, you want to do it.

00:13:26.180 You want to enjoy the smell of the roses

00:13:28.480 and you want to have a nibble on the chocolates

00:13:31.040 but you're just wondering,

00:13:32.580 okay, where's the knife?

00:13:33.760 Where's the catch?

00:13:36.360 So just in where we are is,

00:13:40.240 well, we're weeks away.

00:13:42.180 We're still two weeks away

00:13:43.280 and there's a lot happening.

00:13:46.500 But as it stands now,

00:13:47.560 it looks like reform

00:13:48.520 are actually going to knock the Tory parties.

00:13:51.140 I mean, how bad the Tories are performing

00:13:53.380 is a thing in itself,

00:13:55.360 which I could maybe come to in a moment.

00:13:56.800 Yeah, let's go ahead and head back

00:13:59.940 and put a little bit of history before this

00:14:01.800 because I think you laid out a good overview

00:14:03.340 of the situation we're in.

00:14:05.460 You know, in the United States,

00:14:06.720 obviously the Republican Party is a sham.

00:14:10.780 It is a false opposition in many ways.

00:14:13.880 But at the very least,

00:14:14.640 when they get into office,

00:14:15.600 we usually do get some level

00:14:17.460 of increased border restriction.

00:14:19.700 At the very least,

00:14:20.440 they don't leave the borders completely open.

00:14:22.740 They're not encouraging people to come here.

00:14:24.700 There is a noticeable difference

00:14:26.900 in the people entering

00:14:27.760 when Trump was in charge

00:14:28.920 as opposed to when Biden is in charge.

00:14:31.700 But like you said,

00:14:32.620 with the UK situation,

00:14:34.080 it feels like the conservatives

00:14:35.780 were actually the ones

00:14:36.980 who were opening this up.

00:14:38.680 They were making it far worse.

00:14:39.920 They're the ones that are exacerbating it.

00:14:41.580 It's almost like you can,

00:14:42.780 when you have the party

00:14:44.140 that's supposed to be conservative,

00:14:45.300 in many ways,

00:14:45.960 you can then lock in

00:14:46.920 the most liberal gains

00:14:48.120 possible during that time.

00:14:50.280 But how did we end up

00:14:51.500 with Rishi Sunak?

00:14:53.180 Like, what was the chain of events

00:14:55.480 that brought him the power

00:14:57.180 and then put him in a crisis

00:14:59.160 where he had to call an election?

00:15:01.460 Well, there's something fishy

00:15:02.540 about Rishi Sunak

00:15:04.040 because what you have in this country

00:15:07.520 are dotted around the country.

00:15:10.600 For the Tory party,

00:15:11.800 it'll usually be in the south of England,

00:15:14.780 in the countryside.

00:15:15.640 So it'll be well-to-do,

00:15:18.040 middle-class English people.

00:15:20.660 And what you have there is safe seats.

00:15:23.660 Rishi Sunak actually got one

00:15:25.100 further up north in Richmond.

00:15:27.720 So when these people,

00:15:29.540 usually they'll come from,

00:15:31.240 you know, like Rishi Sunak,

00:15:32.520 his banking background,

00:15:34.280 very prestigious education,

00:15:37.280 very, very rich wife,

00:15:39.080 and all of this.

00:15:40.500 And he got parachuted

00:15:41.600 into a safe seat.

00:15:43.440 Now, because of a scandal,

00:15:45.140 which I had with Boris Johnson,

00:15:48.000 who I can't,

00:15:48.640 he was just one of the worst of them all.

00:15:51.000 He got, they got rid of him

00:15:52.880 and then they had to have

00:15:54.060 a leadership election.

00:15:56.240 And it was Liz Truss

00:15:57.800 and Rishi Sunak.

00:15:59.680 Liz Truss was just sort of

00:16:01.220 a standard sort of Tory,

00:16:03.520 sort of bat,

00:16:04.380 I would say like she's kind of batty

00:16:06.460 and she wasn't too bright.

00:16:08.160 She had some horrendously cringe speeches

00:16:10.840 about cheese and pork bellies

00:16:12.500 and flans and things.

00:16:13.240 But the Tory leadership

00:16:15.520 actually chose her

00:16:16.840 to be prime minister.

00:16:18.060 And it was clear

00:16:19.000 that that wasn't what

00:16:20.360 certain people wanted,

00:16:22.320 particularly not the Bank of England.

00:16:24.420 And so when she was brought in,

00:16:25.920 she only lasted,

00:16:26.840 I think she was in power

00:16:27.840 for about 40 days.

00:16:29.180 And she tried to bring in

00:16:30.820 some relatively minor tax cuts,

00:16:33.680 which is sort of standard

00:16:35.480 kind of Tory

00:16:37.060 or Republican policies,

00:16:39.580 but basically the Bank of England

00:16:44.940 fiddled around with all kinds of rates

00:16:47.480 and all kinds of market manipulation

00:16:49.960 and dodgy things

00:16:51.440 and tanked,

00:16:53.360 it was like the economy's

00:16:54.780 falling off a cliff here

00:16:56.000 because of you.

00:16:58.180 And now we have to remember

00:16:59.140 the government just a few years

00:17:01.280 before that had kind of

00:17:02.680 spaffed out hundreds of billions

00:17:05.260 on the pandemic

00:17:07.700 and they didn't have

00:17:08.960 any of these issues.

00:17:10.240 But for whatever reason,

00:17:11.340 all of a sudden,

00:17:12.080 these relatively minor

00:17:13.620 tax twiddling

00:17:15.300 that Liz Truss was up to,

00:17:17.040 oh no,

00:17:17.720 the economy's going to

00:17:18.540 slide off a cliff.

00:17:20.260 And it basically collapsed

00:17:22.320 all support within her,

00:17:23.800 became this emergency situation,

00:17:26.120 the lines on the graphs

00:17:27.260 were going all over the place,

00:17:28.300 and she was offed,

00:17:30.580 essentially.

00:17:31.640 And so Rishi Sunak,

00:17:32.920 who had lost

00:17:34.000 in the lead,

00:17:35.460 among the Tory base themselves,

00:17:38.380 got in more or less

00:17:40.100 by default this time.

00:17:42.140 And that's,

00:17:42.960 so that's actually

00:17:43.960 how he came to power.

00:17:45.120 So he had no public support

00:17:47.440 whatsoever.

00:17:48.580 This was purely

00:17:49.540 a top-down imposition

00:17:52.040 from,

00:17:53.540 in this case,

00:17:54.300 the Bank of England,

00:17:55.300 but I also suspect

00:17:56.800 other friends

00:17:57.960 throughout the Western elite.

00:18:01.180 And so then we,

00:18:02.140 we got stuck with him.

00:18:04.140 Again,

00:18:05.020 and,

00:18:05.200 and,

00:18:05.620 then obviously

00:18:07.200 you've got the ethnic issue,

00:18:08.880 but then there's also

00:18:09.900 that he is just utterly,

00:18:11.940 like,

00:18:13.160 no charisma.

00:18:14.900 He's this elitist,

00:18:16.380 and he's just completely

00:18:17.740 out of place.

00:18:19.060 I mean,

00:18:19.620 even somebody like

00:18:20.620 Boris Johnson,

00:18:21.340 who I think is the worst,

00:18:22.560 has this kind of

00:18:23.460 Churchill impression,

00:18:25.160 which he pulls out,

00:18:26.360 this,

00:18:26.680 this kind of

00:18:27.480 upper-class buffoon

00:18:28.800 sort of demeanor.

00:18:30.800 But Rishi Sunak

00:18:31.600 had nothing whatsoever.

00:18:33.620 But I mean,

00:18:34.420 in terms of an actual character,

00:18:36.920 he's just this boring

00:18:38.220 sort of suit.

00:18:39.500 He's not the worst

00:18:40.620 of them,

00:18:41.080 actually.

00:18:41.760 He isn't actually

00:18:42.800 the most dislikable

00:18:44.420 of the people,

00:18:45.240 of the scumbags

00:18:46.060 that the Tories

00:18:46.680 have had in.

00:18:47.860 But,

00:18:48.160 so yeah,

00:18:49.800 that's how we ended up

00:18:50.800 getting Sunak.

00:18:51.840 And it was,

00:18:52.480 it was clear

00:18:53.120 that he wasn't popular.

00:18:54.400 what was interesting

00:18:56.520 was that

00:18:57.180 when we head

00:18:57.920 into the election,

00:18:59.640 the Tories

00:19:02.360 didn't actually

00:19:02.960 have to call

00:19:03.700 the election

00:19:04.220 as early

00:19:04.720 as they did.

00:19:05.520 They could have

00:19:06.040 run it out

00:19:06.760 for at least

00:19:07.840 like eight months

00:19:08.780 more,

00:19:09.440 maybe longer.

00:19:10.600 They could have

00:19:11.240 kept kicking it

00:19:12.000 down the end

00:19:12.640 of the road.

00:19:15.160 But for whatever reason,

00:19:16.560 it was just this

00:19:17.640 snap,

00:19:19.300 snap election.

00:19:20.100 OK,

00:19:20.740 let's,

00:19:21.000 that's why

00:19:21.540 I came to the

00:19:22.160 conclusion,

00:19:23.160 something's happening.

00:19:24.080 They want the Tories

00:19:24.880 out.

00:19:25.540 But even then,

00:19:26.560 it was like this,

00:19:27.740 everything became

00:19:28.720 really farcical.

00:19:29.880 I mean,

00:19:31.020 I've got just

00:19:31.920 the new thingies

00:19:32.600 here.

00:19:32.960 You've got Sunak

00:19:33.740 comes out

00:19:34.500 and he announces

00:19:35.800 in the pouring rain

00:19:37.400 that he's calling

00:19:38.600 an election.

00:19:39.380 He's soaked

00:19:40.360 through.

00:19:41.300 And then in the

00:19:42.000 background,

00:19:42.820 you've got somebody

00:19:43.640 plays the Blairite

00:19:45.260 anthem,

00:19:46.220 things can only

00:19:47.020 get better.

00:19:47.660 which,

00:19:49.280 which it was

00:19:50.240 just,

00:19:50.440 it was just

00:19:50.780 farcical.

00:19:51.380 It was just

00:19:51.700 ridiculous.

00:19:52.280 And he was

00:19:52.820 just,

00:19:53.680 like you would

00:19:55.000 have thought

00:19:55.500 that somebody

00:19:56.060 would have

00:19:56.340 handed an

00:19:56.780 umbrella or

00:19:57.400 something.

00:19:58.360 And then the

00:19:59.160 next day,

00:20:00.040 he took the

00:20:00.720 day off

00:20:01.260 and he

00:20:02.800 disappeared.

00:20:04.140 But then when

00:20:04.860 he came back

00:20:05.440 the day after

00:20:05.960 that,

00:20:06.340 he announced

00:20:06.820 that they were

00:20:07.280 going to bring

00:20:07.780 in national

00:20:08.420 service for

00:20:09.440 Zoomers,

00:20:10.800 which told

00:20:11.700 the population,

00:20:12.480 which told

00:20:12.920 everybody,

00:20:13.540 like basically,

00:20:14.320 I'm going to

00:20:15.180 ship your kids

00:20:15.900 off to die in

00:20:16.680 Ukraine.

00:20:17.060 That's what

00:20:17.540 they took

00:20:17.920 from it.

00:20:18.260 Like the

00:20:18.720 worst possible

00:20:19.960 sort of

00:20:20.880 policies,

00:20:21.840 announcements you

00:20:22.820 can imagine.

00:20:24.020 Yeah.

00:20:24.200 I watched a

00:20:25.880 video of him

00:20:26.820 like answering

00:20:27.500 a question with

00:20:28.480 a woman in

00:20:28.860 the crowd and

00:20:29.780 she's like,

00:20:30.600 well,

00:20:30.780 what if they

00:20:31.280 don't do

00:20:31.680 military service?

00:20:32.500 He's like,

00:20:32.760 oh,

00:20:32.940 well,

00:20:33.040 we'll have

00:20:33.360 other national

00:20:34.000 services they

00:20:34.680 can do.

00:20:35.080 They'll just

00:20:35.320 be the military

00:20:35.820 option.

00:20:36.360 It's like,

00:20:36.840 well,

00:20:36.940 what if they

00:20:37.280 don't want

00:20:37.520 to do that?

00:20:37.980 It's like,

00:20:38.520 well,

00:20:38.700 then we'll

00:20:38.960 just shut

00:20:39.320 down their

00:20:39.640 bank accounts.

00:20:41.480 Yeah.

00:20:42.620 We'll take

00:20:43.120 away the

00:20:43.540 driving licenses

00:20:44.540 and we'll

00:20:45.040 shut down

00:20:45.420 the bank

00:20:45.780 accounts.

00:20:47.880 Yeah,

00:20:48.380 that's a

00:20:48.720 vote winner.

00:20:50.000 And then,

00:20:50.540 I mean,

00:20:50.960 just to go

00:20:51.400 back in the

00:20:51.860 sequence,

00:20:52.920 then he

00:20:53.440 even went

00:20:54.040 to pay

00:20:54.560 a visit

00:20:56.000 to the

00:20:56.380 Titanic

00:20:56.860 Museum in

00:20:57.800 Belfast.

00:20:58.600 Now,

00:20:59.000 the Titanic

00:20:59.540 Museum in

00:21:00.360 Belfast,

00:21:00.940 it has

00:21:01.460 a kind

00:21:02.360 of the

00:21:02.640 bow of

00:21:03.200 the Titanic,

00:21:03.940 like a

00:21:04.500 replica of

00:21:05.100 it.

00:21:05.600 So it's

00:21:05.860 this huge,

00:21:07.040 but they've

00:21:07.540 also made

00:21:08.180 it look

00:21:08.560 like an

00:21:09.360 iceberg.

00:21:09.760 So we

00:21:11.440 see after

00:21:12.060 the National

00:21:12.600 Service

00:21:13.100 announcement,

00:21:13.680 he pops

00:21:14.040 up again

00:21:14.620 and he's

00:21:15.320 got like

00:21:15.740 the giant,

00:21:16.960 the iceberg

00:21:17.900 bow of

00:21:18.860 the Titanic

00:21:19.560 as a symbol

00:21:20.840 in the

00:21:21.180 background of

00:21:21.880 when he's

00:21:22.240 announcing it.

00:21:23.720 And then

00:21:25.060 he announces

00:21:25.840 that he's

00:21:26.280 The election

00:21:44.620 got under

00:21:45.160 way.

00:21:45.340 Hold on,

00:21:45.800 I'm looking

00:21:46.080 at my

00:21:46.300 notes here.

00:21:47.800 But that's

00:21:48.240 kind of

00:21:49.520 what he

00:21:49.800 announces

00:21:50.160 that he's

00:21:50.460 running hard

00:21:51.000 against the

00:21:51.400 tourists.

00:21:51.720 Then for

00:21:52.640 Argent as

00:21:53.320 the free

00:21:53.740 and they

00:21:54.420 get the

00:21:54.700 yeah,

00:21:54.900 that's what

00:21:55.240 it was.

00:21:55.520 Farage

00:21:56.080 enters the

00:21:56.500 free and

00:21:56.780 you get

00:21:57.000 the biggest

00:21:57.420 gaffe of

00:21:57.940 all.

00:21:58.800 Because the

00:21:59.400 next time

00:22:00.240 is that

00:22:00.900 you've got

00:22:01.420 the 80th

00:22:02.960 anniversary

00:22:04.280 of D-Day.

00:22:06.320 And by

00:22:07.080 this time

00:22:07.560 Farage is

00:22:08.260 in the

00:22:08.500 running.

00:22:09.440 And what

00:22:10.040 they wanted

00:22:10.460 to do,

00:22:10.960 I think

00:22:11.300 the NATO

00:22:12.100 countries

00:22:12.760 wanted to

00:22:13.180 make a

00:22:13.500 big song

00:22:14.080 and dance

00:22:14.620 about

00:22:15.240 D-Day

00:22:16.840 80th

00:22:17.380 anniversary.

00:22:18.360 And it

00:22:18.660 was a

00:22:19.020 sort of

00:22:19.440 collective

00:22:20.880 thing of

00:22:21.600 solidarity

00:22:22.180 against

00:22:23.320 Vladimir

00:22:23.980 Putin.

00:22:25.520 and

00:22:26.100 Rishi

00:22:26.360 Sunak

00:22:26.660 just

00:22:26.980 dropped

00:22:28.220 out and

00:22:29.020 went back.

00:22:29.640 He went

00:22:29.880 off to

00:22:30.160 give a

00:22:30.460 TV show,

00:22:31.500 leaving

00:22:32.060 Macron,

00:22:33.800 Schultz,

00:22:35.300 the bureaucrats

00:22:36.260 from the

00:22:36.660 European Union.

00:22:38.300 Joe Biden

00:22:39.000 was even

00:22:39.600 doddering

00:22:40.180 around the

00:22:40.640 place.

00:22:41.860 And Sunak

00:22:42.980 pulled out.

00:22:43.680 Now what

00:22:44.100 that tells,

00:22:45.380 this was a

00:22:46.160 disaster.

00:22:46.900 This was

00:22:47.260 just completely

00:22:48.100 farcical.

00:22:48.740 because what

00:22:49.700 that tells

00:22:50.280 you is he

00:22:51.120 doesn't

00:22:51.520 care.

00:22:52.620 They don't

00:22:53.980 care about

00:22:54.600 this big

00:22:56.280 patriotic

00:22:56.880 event,

00:22:57.660 which is

00:22:57.880 part of

00:22:58.700 the,

00:22:59.120 especially

00:22:59.580 in Britain,

00:23:00.480 the whole

00:23:00.860 bulldog

00:23:01.320 nationalist

00:23:01.900 sort of

00:23:02.340 patriotism.

00:23:03.500 And he

00:23:03.900 doesn't

00:23:04.300 care.

00:23:06.000 And then

00:23:06.560 you had

00:23:07.000 Farage come

00:23:07.760 out and

00:23:08.160 say it

00:23:08.820 was a

00:23:09.080 complete

00:23:09.460 disgrace.

00:23:10.580 So the

00:23:11.000 point here,

00:23:12.760 if you want

00:23:13.700 to be a

00:23:14.060 little bit

00:23:14.400 conspiratorial,

00:23:15.540 is that it

00:23:15.940 actually looks

00:23:16.740 like the

00:23:17.100 Tories are

00:23:17.680 throwing the

00:23:18.440 election.

00:23:19.520 It looks like

00:23:20.820 they don't

00:23:21.420 want to win,

00:23:22.340 which sort

00:23:23.140 of reinforced

00:23:23.820 my view.

00:23:25.500 But then when

00:23:26.020 you get the

00:23:26.780 reform coming

00:23:29.140 onto the

00:23:29.580 scene, then

00:23:30.660 it changes

00:23:31.360 that dynamic

00:23:32.160 depending on

00:23:33.460 how you want

00:23:33.960 to look at

00:23:34.400 that.

00:23:35.340 Yeah, that's

00:23:35.700 something I

00:23:36.040 wanted to ask

00:23:36.540 you about,

00:23:37.000 because again,

00:23:37.680 for Americans,

00:23:38.540 we're not

00:23:39.360 really used to

00:23:39.960 having anything

00:23:41.120 outside of a

00:23:41.980 two-party

00:23:42.700 system, even

00:23:43.420 though technically

00:23:44.100 we're allowed

00:23:44.580 to have more.

00:23:45.180 That's never

00:23:45.700 how it's

00:23:46.740 actually plays

00:23:48.220 out.

00:23:49.040 But for

00:23:49.680 those who are

00:23:50.980 not familiar

00:23:51.380 with the

00:23:51.760 parliamentary

00:23:52.420 system, what

00:23:53.860 happens here?

00:23:54.660 Because originally

00:23:55.440 it sounded like

00:23:56.080 the plan was

00:23:56.700 just, hey, we

00:23:57.880 just punish the

00:23:58.980 Tories by not

00:24:00.320 voting for

00:24:00.800 anybody, and

00:24:01.260 then labor

00:24:01.680 obviously comes

00:24:03.900 into play.

00:24:04.540 They're the

00:24:04.960 ones that are

00:24:05.540 going to win

00:24:06.040 this automatically

00:24:07.680 if everybody

00:24:09.200 who was going

00:24:09.840 to vote for

00:24:10.460 the conservative

00:24:10.940 party steps

00:24:11.960 down.

00:24:12.580 A lot of

00:24:12.860 times, I've

00:24:13.600 said this many

00:24:14.160 times in the

00:24:15.240 United States,

00:24:15.920 if the

00:24:16.440 Republican

00:24:16.760 Party just

00:24:17.300 disappeared, that

00:24:18.500 would be the

00:24:18.940 most kind of

00:24:20.820 authority-shattering

00:24:22.200 thing for our

00:24:22.860 current regime.

00:24:23.660 The lack of

00:24:25.160 any pretend

00:24:26.000 opposition to

00:24:27.420 what is

00:24:27.780 obviously the

00:24:29.000 ruling

00:24:29.720 uniparty would

00:24:30.980 be the thing

00:24:32.100 that kind of

00:24:32.540 shatters the

00:24:33.180 illusion of any

00:24:34.740 real opposition,

00:24:36.080 that you're not

00:24:37.080 just under one

00:24:37.700 party rule.

00:24:38.720 And it sounded

00:24:38.940 like that was

00:24:39.520 more the

00:24:39.900 direction that

00:24:41.240 you guys were

00:24:41.860 going with

00:24:42.400 this.

00:24:42.860 Let's just

00:24:43.300 dispense with

00:24:44.420 the charade.

00:24:45.500 We're going

00:24:45.840 to be ruled

00:24:46.460 by this

00:24:47.420 anyway.

00:24:48.840 But with

00:24:50.020 Nigel Farage

00:24:51.260 coming in and

00:24:52.260 with the

00:24:52.760 reform party,

00:24:53.820 does that

00:24:54.240 create a

00:24:54.760 scenario where

00:24:55.580 Farage could

00:24:56.480 become prime

00:24:57.100 minister or

00:24:57.560 that his

00:24:58.020 party could

00:24:58.540 pick up

00:24:58.860 enough seats

00:24:59.740 to have a

00:25:00.880 serious impact

00:25:01.840 on what's

00:25:02.300 going on

00:25:02.800 there?

00:25:03.260 What's the

00:25:03.600 dynamic in

00:25:04.140 play with

00:25:04.620 that third

00:25:05.420 party stepping

00:25:06.060 in?

00:25:07.180 Well, it

00:25:07.700 is really

00:25:08.620 strange because

00:25:09.400 we're in

00:25:10.080 uncharted

00:25:11.140 territory here

00:25:12.020 because basically

00:25:13.960 reform are now

00:25:14.840 beating the

00:25:15.280 conservatives.

00:25:16.080 But if we

00:25:16.420 can just take

00:25:16.920 a little step

00:25:17.460 back, I

00:25:20.260 think it was

00:25:20.700 before the

00:25:21.520 election or

00:25:22.160 roundabout that

00:25:22.860 time, there

00:25:23.320 was a lot

00:25:23.660 going on.

00:25:24.680 And Farage

00:25:25.180 had actually

00:25:25.660 said that,

00:25:27.240 I think it

00:25:27.640 was just

00:25:28.120 after, but

00:25:28.660 at any rate,

00:25:29.600 Farage had

00:25:30.200 said he was

00:25:30.880 retiring and

00:25:31.700 actually he

00:25:32.420 was going to

00:25:33.040 go over to

00:25:33.780 America and

00:25:35.600 campaign with

00:25:36.440 Donald Trump.

00:25:37.140 Farage is a

00:25:37.660 good friend of

00:25:38.380 Donald Trump.

00:25:38.960 And he's

00:25:41.700 backed him

00:25:42.160 for years.

00:25:44.280 But then

00:25:44.900 with the

00:25:45.440 surprise

00:25:45.860 announcement,

00:25:47.260 I think

00:25:47.620 what happened

00:25:48.640 was there

00:25:49.000 was a little

00:25:49.500 bit of

00:25:49.780 house cleaning

00:25:50.460 going on

00:25:51.020 with reform

00:25:51.720 and some

00:25:52.100 of our

00:25:52.440 friends at

00:25:52.900 the Lotus

00:25:53.200 Eaters got

00:25:53.840 cleared out

00:25:54.560 because they

00:25:55.340 were a bit

00:25:55.680 too spicy.

00:25:57.300 And it was

00:25:57.620 as if we

00:25:58.400 look back at

00:25:58.920 it now and

00:25:59.420 we can see

00:25:59.900 Richard Tice,

00:26:00.660 who was this

00:26:01.080 boring kind

00:26:01.940 of boomer,

00:26:02.960 he was

00:26:03.440 cleaning house,

00:26:04.680 making it

00:26:05.220 safe for

00:26:05.780 Farage to

00:26:06.400 come in

00:26:06.780 basically.

00:26:08.260 And so

00:26:08.800 when we

00:26:09.580 look at

00:26:10.280 what's

00:26:10.780 happening

00:26:11.060 now,

00:26:11.760 the question

00:26:12.540 really is

00:26:13.600 is reform

00:26:14.640 for real?

00:26:15.460 Is Farage

00:26:16.240 really out

00:26:16.960 to destroy

00:26:17.520 the Tory

00:26:18.040 party?

00:26:19.160 And it

00:26:19.440 looks like

00:26:19.820 he is.

00:26:20.260 He has

00:26:20.600 said that

00:26:21.180 he wants

00:26:21.980 to be

00:26:22.260 Prime

00:26:22.520 Minister

00:26:22.780 by

00:26:23.520 2029.

00:26:26.840 And then

00:26:27.820 that will

00:26:28.260 if he's

00:26:28.980 playing this

00:26:29.480 for real,

00:26:30.060 if he's

00:26:30.660 doing this

00:26:31.120 in earnest,

00:26:31.720 then that's

00:26:32.120 wonderful

00:26:32.540 because it

00:26:33.680 would be a

00:26:34.180 better scenario

00:26:35.020 than,

00:26:35.880 well,

00:26:35.960 we're just

00:26:36.340 going to

00:26:36.600 have to

00:26:36.920 grit our

00:26:37.780 teeth and

00:26:38.180 deal with

00:26:38.580 Labour,

00:26:39.520 because then

00:26:39.900 we'd have

00:26:40.240 actually

00:26:40.560 something

00:26:41.020 pretty

00:26:41.760 decent.

00:26:42.920 Now,

00:26:43.500 again,

00:26:44.400 the problem

00:26:46.100 with Farage

00:26:46.880 in the past

00:26:47.620 is that he

00:26:48.560 does have a

00:26:49.160 tendency of

00:26:50.080 building up

00:26:50.700 a big head

00:26:51.280 of steam

00:26:51.920 and then

00:26:52.680 walking away

00:26:53.320 from it

00:26:53.700 and it'll

00:26:54.000 explode.

00:26:55.020 That's what

00:26:55.620 happened with

00:26:55.980 Brexit,

00:26:56.440 that's what

00:26:56.800 happened with

00:26:57.140 the Brexit

00:26:57.540 party.

00:26:59.420 And you

00:27:01.220 see,

00:27:02.340 the problem

00:27:03.180 that you

00:27:03.920 run into

00:27:04.420 here is

00:27:05.520 that you

00:27:06.180 don't want

00:27:06.780 to black

00:27:07.420 pill people.

00:27:08.540 I've got

00:27:09.360 doubts about

00:27:10.160 this.

00:27:10.640 I hope it

00:27:11.260 works out

00:27:11.800 like this.

00:27:12.720 But when

00:27:13.160 you then

00:27:13.660 say,

00:27:14.200 OK,

00:27:14.860 you may

00:27:16.240 not want

00:27:16.620 to get

00:27:16.820 too carried

00:27:17.380 away,

00:27:18.140 go for it,

00:27:19.780 but just

00:27:20.240 be wary

00:27:21.680 of where

00:27:22.080 this can

00:27:22.480 go,

00:27:22.880 because there's

00:27:23.660 going to be

00:27:23.980 a lot of

00:27:24.360 broken hearts

00:27:25.120 a few months

00:27:25.700 from now

00:27:26.200 if he's

00:27:26.880 playing golf

00:27:27.480 with Donald

00:27:27.980 Trump.

00:27:28.320 and it's

00:27:29.520 all over

00:27:30.080 basically,

00:27:30.780 because that

00:27:31.100 could very

00:27:31.520 well happen.

00:27:32.940 But if

00:27:34.260 we take him

00:27:35.100 at his

00:27:35.360 word,

00:27:35.640 he's in

00:27:35.900 it for

00:27:36.140 the long

00:27:36.480 haul.

00:27:37.200 He's

00:27:37.520 going for

00:27:38.020 a seat

00:27:38.460 down in

00:27:38.940 Clacton,

00:27:39.800 which is

00:27:40.020 on the

00:27:40.840 south coast

00:27:41.260 of England,

00:27:41.640 which is

00:27:42.040 a traditional

00:27:43.140 white working

00:27:43.780 class,

00:27:45.000 and they've

00:27:45.520 got a track

00:27:46.040 record of

00:27:46.620 voting for

00:27:47.180 these kinds

00:27:48.100 of parties

00:27:48.620 basically.

00:27:50.220 The other

00:27:51.080 sort of

00:27:51.860 scenario

00:27:52.440 is that

00:27:54.440 the

00:27:55.000 Conservatives

00:27:56.380 are taking

00:27:57.320 a big

00:27:58.100 haircut

00:27:58.460 here.

00:27:58.780 They're

00:27:59.000 really

00:27:59.340 going to

00:27:59.660 get decimated.

00:28:01.500 It came

00:28:02.380 out yesterday

00:28:03.020 that they've

00:28:04.380 actually got

00:28:04.820 no more

00:28:05.420 money left

00:28:06.120 or anything

00:28:06.560 because some

00:28:07.120 of their

00:28:07.320 big donors

00:28:07.920 have pulled

00:28:08.360 out.

00:28:09.620 And so

00:28:09.900 they've

00:28:10.280 began saying

00:28:11.320 to their

00:28:12.260 candidates

00:28:12.780 across the

00:28:13.560 country,

00:28:14.280 basically,

00:28:15.040 you're on

00:28:15.560 your own.

00:28:16.040 We can't

00:28:16.440 afford to

00:28:16.860 fund you.

00:28:17.640 It's such

00:28:18.180 a dire

00:28:18.660 emergency.

00:28:19.780 It's as if

00:28:20.300 they're pulling

00:28:20.800 all of their

00:28:21.320 resources back

00:28:22.300 to protect

00:28:22.840 a few core

00:28:23.620 seats in

00:28:24.160 the south.

00:28:25.280 So it's

00:28:26.700 like,

00:28:26.920 that's it.

00:28:27.960 It's like

00:28:28.380 you're left

00:28:29.140 up there.

00:28:29.540 You're left

00:28:30.020 up there

00:28:30.360 beyond the

00:28:30.880 wall.

00:28:32.780 You're on

00:28:33.460 your own.

00:28:35.460 It's a

00:28:36.300 retreat.

00:28:37.280 We've got

00:28:37.720 to hunker

00:28:38.200 down and

00:28:38.720 just try

00:28:39.200 and spend

00:28:40.560 what resources

00:28:41.280 we have

00:28:41.940 on saving

00:28:42.720 a few

00:28:43.160 core seats.

00:28:43.960 Otherwise,

00:28:44.340 we're taking

00:28:44.720 it out.

00:28:45.360 For example,

00:28:46.800 Rishi Sunak,

00:28:47.780 the Prime

00:28:48.380 Minister,

00:28:48.980 is set to

00:28:49.740 lose his

00:28:50.460 seat in

00:28:51.340 the general

00:28:51.720 election.

00:28:52.300 That's never

00:28:52.940 happened before

00:28:53.680 in British

00:28:55.200 history.

00:28:55.600 It's

00:28:56.800 unprecedented

00:28:57.480 because,

00:28:58.200 as I was

00:28:58.460 saying earlier,

00:28:59.420 if you're

00:29:01.700 playing chess,

00:29:02.780 they'd always

00:29:03.380 have their

00:29:03.960 best pieces

00:29:04.980 in the

00:29:05.820 safest

00:29:06.160 positions.

00:29:07.320 It looks

00:29:08.360 like there's

00:29:08.720 just no

00:29:09.360 safe seats.

00:29:10.420 There's no

00:29:10.960 safe positions

00:29:11.820 left for the

00:29:12.420 Tories.

00:29:13.860 The danger

00:29:14.740 here is

00:29:16.380 that if you

00:29:16.840 want to have

00:29:17.480 a more

00:29:17.900 negative take

00:29:19.160 on where

00:29:19.700 this is all

00:29:20.260 going with

00:29:20.800 reform,

00:29:21.360 is that

00:29:23.280 somewhere down

00:29:24.040 the line

00:29:24.440 they'll be

00:29:24.980 folded into

00:29:26.760 the Conservative

00:29:27.640 Party.

00:29:28.740 I'd really

00:29:29.580 like some

00:29:30.200 assurances

00:29:30.880 from Farage,

00:29:32.760 from Reforma,

00:29:33.480 that's never

00:29:33.920 going to

00:29:34.220 happen.

00:29:34.620 To be fair,

00:29:35.920 he's been

00:29:36.420 really negative

00:29:37.420 and hard on

00:29:38.060 the Tories,

00:29:38.740 on social

00:29:39.220 media,

00:29:39.840 and on

00:29:40.000 the election

00:29:41.000 campaign.

00:29:42.220 I would

00:29:42.680 really like

00:29:43.660 this kind

00:29:44.140 of cast

00:29:44.660 saying,

00:29:45.400 we will

00:29:45.680 never do

00:29:46.300 deals with

00:29:46.960 them.

00:29:47.200 Our aim

00:29:51.080 here is

00:29:52.020 to put

00:29:52.440 them down

00:29:53.000 and put

00:29:53.420 them down

00:29:53.860 for good.

00:29:56.660 It's

00:29:57.180 shocking how

00:29:57.760 hated the

00:29:58.580 Tories are.

00:29:59.700 I think

00:30:00.740 Dan on

00:30:01.900 Lotus had

00:30:02.520 a good

00:30:03.000 take,

00:30:03.400 because he

00:30:03.700 ran the

00:30:04.060 numbers on

00:30:04.640 where all

00:30:05.060 of this

00:30:05.320 could go.

00:30:06.340 He said

00:30:06.940 the double

00:30:08.700 tap strategy

00:30:09.600 where it's

00:30:10.520 not enough

00:30:11.040 to just

00:30:11.420 shoot them

00:30:11.800 once.

00:30:12.160 You've

00:30:12.260 got to

00:30:12.480 do the

00:30:12.860 double

00:30:13.060 taps

00:30:13.340 in the

00:30:13.560 head.

00:30:15.900 You've

00:30:16.380 got to

00:30:16.700 do

00:30:16.920 this,

00:30:17.440 because

00:30:17.680 they'll

00:30:17.920 get up

00:30:18.400 and come

00:30:19.480 for you

00:30:19.800 again.

00:30:20.700 It's like

00:30:21.300 the T-1000.

00:30:22.880 We're

00:30:23.160 going to

00:30:23.440 shatter it.

00:30:24.520 We're

00:30:24.880 going to

00:30:25.120 freeze it,

00:30:25.880 and then

00:30:26.360 we're

00:30:26.500 going to

00:30:26.760 shatter it.

00:30:28.380 This is

00:30:29.020 the time

00:30:29.420 to throw

00:30:29.940 it into

00:30:30.320 the

00:30:30.720 molten

00:30:31.200 core.

00:30:31.840 This is

00:30:32.120 the time

00:30:32.500 to throw

00:30:32.880 it into

00:30:33.140 the

00:30:33.340 furnace.

00:30:34.120 Don't

00:30:34.440 just

00:30:34.640 stand

00:30:35.060 there

00:30:35.360 and

00:30:35.540 watch

00:30:35.820 it

00:30:36.020 accumulate

00:30:37.200 and

00:30:37.760 draw

00:30:38.060 itself

00:30:38.460 back

00:30:38.760 together

00:30:39.160 slowly

00:30:39.600 but

00:30:39.880 surely.

00:30:40.940 The

00:30:41.160 problem

00:30:41.560 is,

00:30:41.940 I saw

00:30:42.200 a thing

00:30:42.480 the other

00:30:42.800 day which

00:30:43.320 was

00:30:43.480 pitched

00:30:43.760 on

00:30:44.000 Twitter,

00:30:44.820 and it

00:30:45.120 was

00:30:45.360 the

00:30:46.080 reformed

00:30:47.040 Conservative

00:30:47.720 Party,

00:30:48.700 and they

00:30:49.080 had merged

00:30:50.040 the two

00:30:50.540 slogans,

00:30:51.580 and it

00:30:51.820 was somebody

00:30:52.460 kind of

00:30:53.180 messing

00:30:53.500 around,

00:30:54.520 but I

00:30:54.860 thought,

00:30:55.180 oh God,

00:30:55.800 here we

00:30:56.160 go.

00:30:56.460 Here comes,

00:30:58.380 I can see

00:30:59.280 the knife

00:30:59.840 in the

00:31:00.120 shadows

00:31:00.500 flickering

00:31:01.200 here.

00:31:02.680 But we'll

00:31:03.980 just have

00:31:04.440 to see.

00:31:05.080 At the

00:31:05.440 moment,

00:31:06.400 I'm

00:31:06.620 optimistic,

00:31:07.720 and I'm

00:31:08.400 hoping there's

00:31:09.060 maximum

00:31:09.720 damage on

00:31:10.980 the Tory

00:31:11.440 Party.

00:31:12.480 It's

00:31:12.860 white

00:31:13.120 pills

00:31:13.560 so far

00:31:14.380 because at

00:31:14.980 the end

00:31:15.240 of the

00:31:15.480 day we

00:31:15.740 didn't

00:31:16.060 expect

00:31:16.680 reform,

00:31:17.560 we didn't

00:31:17.900 expect

00:31:18.320 this new

00:31:19.440 populist

00:31:20.080 surge.

00:31:22.360 But again,

00:31:23.820 I've got a

00:31:24.440 caution,

00:31:24.940 yeah,

00:31:25.180 it's great,

00:31:25.820 it's a

00:31:26.480 good time,

00:31:27.460 but I've

00:31:27.860 ran around

00:31:29.780 on this

00:31:30.180 carousel

00:31:30.800 too many

00:31:31.700 times to

00:31:32.380 get carried

00:31:32.940 away.

00:31:33.240 I've been

00:31:33.480 burned too

00:31:34.060 many times.

00:31:35.120 I want

00:31:35.660 reform to

00:31:36.340 do it,

00:31:36.700 I want

00:31:37.080 the Tories

00:31:37.540 to be

00:31:37.900 destroyed,

00:31:38.880 but keep

00:31:39.420 an eye

00:31:39.860 out for

00:31:40.360 that flashing

00:31:40.980 blade in

00:31:41.480 the darkness

00:31:42.000 because it's

00:31:43.500 been in

00:31:43.940 our backs

00:31:44.440 a long

00:31:45.040 time and

00:31:46.000 there's a

00:31:46.320 possibility that

00:31:47.180 there'll be

00:31:47.540 something going

00:31:48.360 on behind

00:31:48.880 the scenes

00:31:49.580 that says,

00:31:50.860 okay,

00:31:51.160 we're going

00:31:51.500 to merge

00:31:51.940 the two.

00:31:53.340 Or,

00:31:53.840 sorry?

00:31:55.560 Oh,

00:31:55.740 no,

00:31:55.960 go ahead.

00:31:57.700 Or there's

00:31:59.220 some shenanigans

00:32:00.600 going on with

00:32:01.560 seats.

00:32:02.260 That will be a

00:32:02.880 slightly different

00:32:03.800 scenario where

00:32:05.680 people start to

00:32:06.540 say, well,

00:32:06.840 we're not going

00:32:07.380 to run against

00:32:08.120 these here and

00:32:08.880 that.

00:32:09.080 I haven't

00:32:09.940 seen any of

00:32:11.200 that from

00:32:11.600 reform.

00:32:12.320 So far,

00:32:13.140 that's great.

00:32:14.840 I mean,

00:32:15.460 there's a

00:32:16.240 possibility that

00:32:17.000 Labour,

00:32:17.720 if we're going

00:32:18.820 to have this

00:32:19.280 super cynical

00:32:20.300 view of the

00:32:21.400 uni party,

00:32:22.940 it's possible,

00:32:24.160 it's a bit of

00:32:24.860 a tangent,

00:32:26.180 but it's

00:32:26.780 possible that

00:32:27.340 Labour might

00:32:28.280 concede,

00:32:29.760 like sort of

00:32:30.400 pull out of

00:32:30.940 a few seats

00:32:31.600 to let the

00:32:32.420 Tories cling

00:32:33.120 onto something

00:32:34.260 in the event

00:32:35.140 that they're

00:32:35.540 going to get

00:32:35.880 completely

00:32:36.340 destroyed.

00:32:36.920 But as

00:32:38.760 it stands

00:32:39.500 now,

00:32:39.960 it's just

00:32:40.400 a complete

00:32:41.000 rout.

00:32:41.860 And I'm

00:32:43.860 not going to

00:32:44.220 take it

00:32:44.560 away.

00:32:44.940 I'm cynical

00:32:45.480 and I tend

00:32:46.540 to be,

00:32:47.020 you know,

00:32:47.640 I'm known

00:32:48.860 as being a

00:32:49.500 bit of a

00:32:49.840 doomer.

00:32:50.640 But even

00:32:51.100 I'm thinking,

00:32:51.960 yeah,

00:32:52.200 I'm liking

00:32:52.880 the vibe

00:32:53.420 at the

00:32:53.700 moment.

00:32:54.360 I can't

00:32:55.300 resist it.

00:32:56.420 And it's

00:32:57.100 terrible because

00:32:57.760 I feel I

00:32:58.320 should know

00:32:58.720 better.

00:32:59.940 And I'm

00:33:00.520 going to

00:33:00.800 regret this.

00:33:02.820 He's coming

00:33:03.640 in,

00:33:04.060 he's got his

00:33:04.580 flowers,

00:33:05.340 he's got his

00:33:05.860 box of

00:33:06.360 chocolate,

00:33:06.920 and I'm

00:33:07.660 no,

00:33:08.280 no,

00:33:08.640 no.

00:33:09.400 But it's

00:33:10.480 the old

00:33:11.020 magic's

00:33:11.660 beginning to

00:33:12.200 work again.

00:33:13.680 Morgoth the

00:33:14.200 Optimus puts

00:33:14.900 on something

00:33:15.440 pretty.

00:33:16.560 Yeah,

00:33:17.080 who knows?

00:33:18.400 Who knows?

00:33:18.920 It's too

00:33:19.260 early to

00:33:19.680 tell.

00:33:20.180 But at

00:33:20.880 the moment

00:33:21.220 it's good.

00:33:22.760 And it's

00:33:23.420 great to

00:33:23.960 see just

00:33:24.540 the route

00:33:25.300 of the

00:33:25.740 Tory party.

00:33:26.420 I like

00:33:27.740 I like the

00:33:27.940 idea that

00:33:28.840 if you

00:33:29.420 don't get

00:33:29.740 all of

00:33:30.100 Rishi

00:33:30.340 Sunak,

00:33:30.880 like if

00:33:31.160 his pinky

00:33:31.680 finger is

00:33:32.140 left

00:33:32.340 somewhere,

00:33:32.960 then it'll

00:33:33.360 reform and

00:33:34.100 Skynet will

00:33:35.080 rebuild itself

00:33:36.540 out of that.

00:33:38.240 We have this

00:33:39.320 cycle in the

00:33:40.060 United States

00:33:40.760 that's happened

00:33:41.360 over and over

00:33:42.000 again.

00:33:42.480 We can

00:33:43.920 kind of

00:33:45.180 commiserate

00:33:45.700 with you

00:33:46.000 guys on

00:33:46.500 this.

00:33:46.720 where every

00:33:47.700 I'd say

00:33:49.080 12 to

00:33:50.680 15 years

00:33:51.460 you get

00:33:53.020 like an

00:33:53.300 insurgent

00:33:54.060 movement

00:33:55.480 inside

00:33:56.140 conservatism.

00:33:57.620 There's a

00:33:57.920 new right.

00:33:59.000 There's the

00:33:59.640 Tea Party.

00:34:00.740 There's the

00:34:01.200 MAGA

00:34:01.480 coalition.

00:34:02.340 There's this

00:34:02.760 populist

00:34:03.800 uprising that

00:34:04.960 you get

00:34:05.280 under Pat

00:34:06.120 Buchanan

00:34:06.700 or Donald

00:34:07.800 Trump.

00:34:08.460 And all

00:34:09.020 of a sudden

00:34:09.440 there's this

00:34:10.060 energy,

00:34:11.080 there's this

00:34:11.460 shift,

00:34:12.000 there's this

00:34:12.280 vibe that

00:34:12.840 there's a

00:34:13.840 real opposition

00:34:14.480 to the

00:34:15.580 controlled

00:34:16.100 scenario that

00:34:17.340 we have in

00:34:17.920 the United

00:34:18.320 States.

00:34:19.400 And what

00:34:19.620 happens over

00:34:20.320 and over

00:34:20.720 again is

00:34:21.540 that that

00:34:22.040 movement happens

00:34:22.700 for a while.

00:34:23.440 They toss

00:34:23.880 out a couple

00:34:24.460 of mildly

00:34:26.320 relevant people

00:34:27.360 but the

00:34:28.260 trick that

00:34:29.500 keeps happening,

00:34:30.360 the reason I

00:34:30.860 feel like the

00:34:31.280 populism never

00:34:32.100 breaks through,

00:34:33.060 and this is

00:34:33.420 always true

00:34:33.820 populism.

00:34:34.520 Our good

00:34:34.980 friend AA

00:34:35.840 will tell you

00:34:36.640 all about

00:34:37.380 this.

00:34:37.640 He's got a

00:34:37.980 book about

00:34:38.380 it.

00:34:38.780 The problem

00:34:39.120 with populism

00:34:40.220 is ultimately

00:34:40.720 it's not

00:34:41.540 organized.

00:34:42.840 And so what

00:34:43.320 happens is over

00:34:44.100 and over again

00:34:44.680 that populist

00:34:45.400 sentiment rises

00:34:46.080 to the top.

00:34:46.940 There's the

00:34:47.180 energy,

00:34:47.900 there's the

00:34:48.240 vibes,

00:34:49.060 everyone's

00:34:49.520 feeling good.

00:34:50.220 We had that

00:34:50.620 with Trump

00:34:51.360 for the first

00:34:51.820 time around.

00:34:52.480 You got the

00:34:52.800 meme energy

00:34:53.320 happening and

00:34:53.900 everybody is

00:34:54.480 optimistic about

00:34:55.660 what comes

00:34:56.120 next.

00:34:56.960 But then when

00:34:57.500 the administration

00:34:58.120 kicks in,

00:34:59.200 there's only so

00:34:59.840 many people who

00:35:00.380 are actually

00:35:00.720 qualified to do

00:35:01.940 certain jobs

00:35:02.980 and get

00:35:03.400 appointed to

00:35:03.960 certain positions

00:35:04.720 and manage

00:35:05.900 certain

00:35:06.260 infrastructures.

00:35:07.700 And slowly

00:35:08.020 but surely,

00:35:09.100 the establishment

00:35:10.140 kind of works

00:35:11.040 its way into

00:35:12.000 that movement.

00:35:13.800 And a few

00:35:14.120 years later,

00:35:14.780 everyone's a

00:35:15.600 Tea Party

00:35:16.280 conservative

00:35:16.920 or a MAGA

00:35:17.720 conservative in

00:35:18.560 the United

00:35:18.880 States,

00:35:19.300 but they're all

00:35:20.100 just doing

00:35:20.580 everything that

00:35:21.280 the Republican

00:35:22.120 Party has done

00:35:22.820 for decades.

00:35:24.900 We're hoping

00:35:25.800 this time

00:35:26.580 that there is

00:35:27.680 enough infrastructure

00:35:28.600 being built

00:35:29.360 outside of the

00:35:30.260 system to push

00:35:31.420 back against that.

00:35:32.340 But is that a

00:35:33.200 similar problem

00:35:33.880 in the UK

00:35:35.360 dynamic where you

00:35:36.460 do get these

00:35:37.020 waves of populism,

00:35:38.440 but because

00:35:38.940 there's only

00:35:39.680 it's so often

00:35:40.880 only organized

00:35:41.960 around one

00:35:42.840 charismatic guy

00:35:44.040 or a few

00:35:44.560 people,

00:35:45.460 there's never

00:35:45.940 infrastructure that's

00:35:47.500 actually creating

00:35:48.300 the sustained

00:35:48.960 organized political

00:35:49.940 structure,

00:35:50.640 that ultimately

00:35:51.280 this always gets

00:35:52.000 subsumed by

00:35:53.280 that kind of

00:35:54.140 merger of the

00:35:54.840 parties or the

00:35:55.520 control of the

00:35:56.240 establishment.

00:35:57.800 Yeah, that's

00:35:58.200 the entire story

00:35:59.860 of Brexit.

00:36:00.980 Now, Nigel

00:36:01.720 Farage, again,

00:36:02.880 was pivotal,

00:36:05.340 crucial in

00:36:06.320 making Brexit

00:36:07.340 happen, and

00:36:09.380 then he kind

00:36:10.680 of walked away

00:36:11.320 from it.

00:36:11.680 Now, to be

00:36:12.080 fair, he

00:36:12.440 wasn't in

00:36:12.900 government, but

00:36:14.560 what happened

00:36:15.760 was that

00:36:16.300 because he

00:36:19.700 basically, using

00:36:21.300 UKIP, he was

00:36:22.540 threatening to

00:36:23.040 take a big

00:36:23.520 chunk out of

00:36:24.460 the Conservative

00:36:25.060 vote over

00:36:26.860 the issue of

00:36:27.840 the membership

00:36:28.800 of the European

00:36:29.320 Union, which

00:36:29.960 had long, long

00:36:30.700 been a thorn

00:36:31.480 in the side of

00:36:32.220 the Tories

00:36:32.660 because you

00:36:33.220 had the more

00:36:34.000 sort of more

00:36:35.360 progressive

00:36:35.920 ones who

00:36:36.680 wanted to

00:36:37.020 be in

00:36:37.340 there, and

00:36:38.040 then you

00:36:38.280 had the

00:36:38.600 old, more

00:36:39.180 little

00:36:39.420 Englander

00:36:39.840 ones who

00:36:40.260 wanted to

00:36:40.540 be out.

00:36:41.940 And so

00:36:42.240 David Cameron

00:36:43.060 at the

00:36:43.380 time decided

00:36:45.520 I'm going to

00:36:46.160 call his

00:36:46.580 bluff and

00:36:47.200 we're going

00:36:47.480 to have a

00:36:47.840 referendum and

00:36:48.660 I'm going to

00:36:49.020 assume he

00:36:49.620 loses.

00:36:50.520 So when

00:36:51.140 UKIP lose,

00:36:52.700 it'll destroy

00:36:53.480 them as a

00:36:53.960 party, that

00:36:54.860 energy will go

00:36:55.540 nowhere.

00:36:56.780 And then we

00:36:57.700 will also put

00:36:58.740 to bed this

00:36:59.460 issue within

00:37:00.120 the Tory party

00:37:00.920 itself.

00:37:01.700 But as it

00:37:02.120 happened, they

00:37:02.500 lost the

00:37:03.020 referendum, which

00:37:04.320 was a

00:37:04.980 disaster.

00:37:05.920 And you

00:37:07.020 had that

00:37:07.420 whole meltdown.

00:37:08.840 Now, in

00:37:09.860 the actual

00:37:10.560 referendum

00:37:12.020 campaign, you

00:37:13.540 did have

00:37:14.500 Tories such

00:37:15.660 as Boris

00:37:16.100 Johnson.

00:37:17.340 Dominic

00:37:17.820 Cummins was

00:37:18.340 another one.

00:37:19.020 Michael

00:37:19.320 Gove, who

00:37:20.180 was a proper

00:37:20.940 swamp creature,

00:37:21.980 was in on

00:37:22.460 it.

00:37:23.480 And so what

00:37:24.080 happened was

00:37:24.860 that when it

00:37:25.840 became time

00:37:27.220 to actually

00:37:28.380 take us

00:37:29.740 out of the

00:37:31.340 European Union,

00:37:32.580 that was

00:37:33.420 when the

00:37:33.760 knife started

00:37:34.360 to come

00:37:34.740 out.

00:37:35.620 It was

00:37:36.260 every step

00:37:37.200 of the way.

00:37:37.960 It was

00:37:38.220 just made

00:37:38.760 this most

00:37:39.760 laborious

00:37:40.860 process you

00:37:41.960 can ever

00:37:42.560 imagine, to

00:37:43.860 the point

00:37:44.200 where people

00:37:44.600 just became

00:37:45.300 completely

00:37:45.840 exhausted with

00:37:46.740 it.

00:37:46.920 And what

00:37:50.600 they knew

00:37:51.280 was that it

00:37:53.140 was actually

00:37:53.740 against

00:37:54.300 immigration.

00:37:55.940 Because at

00:37:56.380 the time,

00:37:57.880 they say it

00:37:58.520 wasn't, but at

00:37:59.160 the time of

00:38:00.620 this going on,

00:38:01.400 you had all

00:38:01.920 of these

00:38:02.260 immigrant waves

00:38:03.240 with the

00:38:03.820 refugee crisis

00:38:04.860 washing all

00:38:05.660 over through

00:38:06.260 Merkel, was

00:38:07.040 allowing them

00:38:07.560 into Germany.

00:38:08.240 there was

00:38:09.000 also talk

00:38:10.600 at that time

00:38:11.180 of allowing

00:38:11.660 Turkey into

00:38:12.820 the European

00:38:13.680 Union.

00:38:14.740 And all of

00:38:15.240 these things

00:38:15.800 were terrifying

00:38:16.640 to Middle

00:38:17.540 England.

00:38:18.320 And we

00:38:18.760 wanted to

00:38:19.160 know, we

00:38:19.480 want to

00:38:19.760 just, we

00:38:20.200 want out

00:38:20.980 of this, and

00:38:21.520 we want to

00:38:22.060 just sit on

00:38:23.060 the island and

00:38:23.580 be safe from

00:38:24.160 it all.

00:38:24.980 And that's

00:38:25.400 what won

00:38:25.740 the day.

00:38:26.440 And the

00:38:26.800 Tories knew

00:38:27.420 that that's

00:38:28.080 what won

00:38:28.440 the day.

00:38:29.140 But what

00:38:29.480 they actually

00:38:29.940 did with

00:38:30.600 that was

00:38:31.020 feed it

00:38:31.580 into a

00:38:32.020 new

00:38:32.280 narrative,

00:38:33.120 which they

00:38:33.660 called

00:38:34.200 Global

00:38:35.020 Britain.

00:38:36.100 And

00:38:36.380 their

00:38:36.940 reframing

00:38:38.140 of it

00:38:38.420 all, this

00:38:39.080 is how

00:38:39.400 scummy

00:38:39.860 they are.

00:38:40.980 Their

00:38:41.320 reframing

00:38:41.980 of all

00:38:42.400 of that

00:38:42.700 whole saga

00:38:43.600 was that,

00:38:44.560 well, what

00:38:44.840 we've learned

00:38:45.460 from this

00:38:46.180 is that

00:38:47.020 the people

00:38:48.040 of Britain

00:38:48.560 want to

00:38:49.300 be more

00:38:49.960 open and

00:38:50.980 more global.

00:38:52.100 They don't

00:38:52.360 want to be

00:38:52.760 stuck in

00:38:53.240 the constraints

00:38:53.940 of the

00:38:54.420 European Union

00:38:55.280 with all

00:38:56.180 these boring

00:38:56.820 countries like

00:38:57.740 France and

00:38:59.560 the Netherlands.

00:39:00.520 They want

00:39:01.100 to be open

00:39:01.800 to India

00:39:02.680 and Africa.

00:39:04.880 A little

00:39:05.240 more North

00:39:06.220 Africa in

00:39:06.760 my...

00:39:07.840 this is

00:39:10.340 what they

00:39:11.140 really

00:39:11.560 meant.

00:39:12.200 They want

00:39:12.880 to be

00:39:13.120 open.

00:39:13.800 It's

00:39:13.940 global

00:39:14.420 Britain.

00:39:15.000 It's

00:39:15.120 going to

00:39:15.300 be

00:39:15.480 Singapore

00:39:16.660 on

00:39:17.160 Thames

00:39:17.680 was a

00:39:18.340 thing

00:39:18.540 that they

00:39:18.840 said as

00:39:19.340 well.

00:39:19.900 So it

00:39:20.100 was just

00:39:20.500 again,

00:39:21.040 typical of

00:39:22.280 what you

00:39:22.760 were saying.

00:39:23.580 All of

00:39:24.100 that populist

00:39:25.340 energy was

00:39:26.000 rerouted back

00:39:27.560 into the

00:39:28.040 system itself,

00:39:29.520 probably with

00:39:30.220 a bit

00:39:30.620 more of a

00:39:31.660 neocon

00:39:33.080 Atlanticist

00:39:34.000 stripe or

00:39:34.720 something

00:39:35.020 like that.

00:39:36.560 But yeah,

00:39:37.520 Brexit is

00:39:38.480 the perfect

00:39:39.060 example of

00:39:40.180 how they

00:39:40.880 kind of

00:39:41.780 took the

00:39:42.320 blows and

00:39:43.780 then reformulated

00:39:44.780 a plan to

00:39:45.380 make it

00:39:45.700 work from

00:39:46.120 on high.

00:39:48.020 I'm curious

00:39:48.700 to what you

00:39:49.060 think about

00:39:49.400 this wider

00:39:50.320 right-wing

00:39:51.700 populism across

00:39:53.180 most of

00:39:54.160 Europe and

00:39:54.500 even the

00:39:54.860 globe in

00:39:55.500 some cases.

00:39:56.940 It's weird.

00:39:57.680 The United

00:39:58.460 States, the

00:39:59.300 media just

00:39:59.820 calls everybody

00:40:00.640 to the

00:40:01.500 right of

00:40:01.860 Mao, that

00:40:02.900 country's

00:40:03.480 Trump.

00:40:04.320 So Bolsonaro

00:40:04.780 was that

00:40:06.020 country's

00:40:06.540 Trump and

00:40:07.620 Nigel Farage

00:40:10.580 is the

00:40:11.440 UK's

00:40:11.940 Trump and

00:40:13.360 you have

00:40:13.960 Le Pen and

00:40:15.260 you have

00:40:15.780 Macron and

00:40:17.300 sorry, it

00:40:19.320 was the

00:40:19.740 lady in

00:40:20.700 Italy.

00:40:23.200 Suddenly has

00:40:24.160 escaped me.

00:40:26.060 But like

00:40:26.460 Gerd

00:40:27.000 Velars and

00:40:27.580 all these

00:40:27.880 people, it's

00:40:28.540 always, oh,

00:40:29.060 they're the

00:40:30.040 crazy, they're

00:40:30.800 the new

00:40:31.920 fascist, a

00:40:32.740 Maloney, that's

00:40:33.600 the one in

00:40:33.900 Italy.

00:40:34.660 But it's

00:40:35.280 always, oh,

00:40:35.840 these people are

00:40:36.520 radically right-wing,

00:40:38.160 they're the

00:40:38.700 Trump of their

00:40:39.340 areas, and I

00:40:40.460 think it's

00:40:40.740 hilarious because

00:40:41.220 Trump isn't

00:40:42.160 even mildly

00:40:42.860 right-wing.

00:40:43.860 So I guess

00:40:44.740 maybe that is

00:40:45.820 accurate with

00:40:46.400 so many of

00:40:46.680 these people.

00:40:47.540 But how

00:40:47.900 many of

00:40:48.340 these right-wing

00:40:50.520 populists that

00:40:51.420 are all pushing

00:40:52.420 against immigration

00:40:53.720 is usually

00:40:54.540 their central

00:40:55.540 issue, though

00:40:56.220 they so often

00:40:56.920 fail on that

00:40:57.960 issue?

00:40:58.660 How many of

00:40:59.140 these people do

00:40:59.660 you think are

00:41:00.040 genuinely

00:41:00.660 right-wing?

00:41:01.460 How many do

00:41:02.280 you think are

00:41:02.980 just kind of

00:41:04.300 picking up that

00:41:05.160 torch at the

00:41:05.720 moment to

00:41:06.420 otherwise control

00:41:07.520 the conversation?

00:41:08.740 Is there a

00:41:09.340 real right-wing

00:41:11.220 centered around

00:41:12.540 opposition to

00:41:14.260 immigration across

00:41:15.440 a lot of

00:41:16.120 Europe, or is

00:41:16.980 this a lot of

00:41:17.480 window dressing

00:41:18.080 that's been put

00:41:18.680 on, do you

00:41:19.440 think, to

00:41:19.780 contain the

00:41:20.740 sentiment of

00:41:21.340 countries that

00:41:21.740 are otherwise

00:41:22.260 being deluged by

00:41:23.560 all these

00:41:23.900 migrants?

00:41:24.300 Well, I

00:41:25.500 think, because

00:41:26.920 it's a lot of

00:41:27.520 different parties

00:41:28.280 and it's a

00:41:29.900 pick-and-mix,

00:41:30.960 so Maloney in

00:41:32.420 Italy, she was

00:41:33.400 touted as being

00:41:34.600 a literal

00:41:37.040 fascist, and I

00:41:38.360 don't mean that

00:41:39.060 to be in the

00:41:39.860 way that

00:41:40.260 everybody's

00:41:41.260 fascist, but

00:41:42.260 literally in the

00:41:43.400 political lineage

00:41:44.440 of Italian

00:41:45.640 politics.

00:41:46.380 But then she

00:41:48.440 turned out to

00:41:49.160 be just another

00:41:49.700 globalist.

00:41:50.720 She turned out

00:41:52.160 to be, again,

00:41:53.400 it's the highest

00:41:53.920 immigration ever.

00:41:55.440 And I think a

00:41:55.860 good bellwether

00:41:56.600 to kind of

00:41:59.540 see this.

00:42:00.200 I mean, Le Pen

00:42:00.900 has been around

00:42:02.260 forever, and so

00:42:03.200 has her dad in

00:42:04.000 France, and she's

00:42:05.780 kind of part of

00:42:06.840 the French

00:42:07.260 establishment at

00:42:08.200 this point, but

00:42:09.280 she's drastically

00:42:10.420 watered down

00:42:11.820 her policies.

00:42:14.600 It's not even

00:42:15.380 called the

00:42:15.740 national, it

00:42:16.360 was the

00:42:16.740 national front,

00:42:18.440 and then it

00:42:18.860 was the

00:42:19.200 national, front

00:42:20.680 national, now

00:42:21.580 it's like national

00:42:22.320 rally or something.

00:42:23.480 And it's this

00:42:23.980 constant softening.

00:42:25.580 Now, what she

00:42:26.780 would do in

00:42:27.280 power, we

00:42:28.300 don't know.

00:42:29.740 But I think

00:42:30.400 when you look

00:42:32.400 at how the

00:42:33.020 establishment is

00:42:33.840 reacting to the

00:42:34.760 party, it tells

00:42:35.520 you quite a bit.

00:42:37.100 And I would

00:42:37.840 say where

00:42:38.800 they're most

00:42:40.160 worried is with

00:42:41.460 the AFD in

00:42:42.600 Germany.

00:42:43.560 I mean, there's

00:42:44.120 been a lot of

00:42:44.760 talk about them

00:42:45.600 just being,

00:42:46.360 completely

00:42:46.900 banned.

00:42:48.380 And they're

00:42:48.720 not even,

00:42:49.480 another thing to

00:42:50.480 consider in

00:42:51.080 Europe is that

00:42:51.700 we are up to

00:42:52.380 our, well, in

00:42:53.600 Britain we are,

00:42:54.260 even though, you

00:42:54.920 know, again, thanks

00:42:55.620 Tories, but on

00:42:56.740 the continent as

00:42:57.440 well, everybody's

00:42:58.160 up to their neck

00:42:58.740 and hate speech

00:42:59.400 laws.

00:43:00.320 So there's only,

00:43:01.900 so it's like you're

00:43:02.880 on YouTube all of

00:43:03.880 the time.

00:43:04.380 You've just

00:43:04.800 constantly got to

00:43:05.500 watch what you're

00:43:05.980 saying.

00:43:06.400 You don't want to

00:43:06.800 break any rules.

00:43:07.580 And people in

00:43:08.980 Germany in

00:43:10.620 particular, they

00:43:11.360 have that.

00:43:12.700 And there was

00:43:13.400 some talk a

00:43:14.000 while ago that

00:43:14.640 they were just

00:43:15.100 going to ban

00:43:15.780 the AFD.

00:43:17.680 But they're

00:43:18.440 now one of

00:43:19.340 the biggest

00:43:20.300 parties there.

00:43:21.280 And, you

00:43:22.540 know, they

00:43:23.060 are organized.

00:43:24.640 So they've got

00:43:25.600 message discipline.

00:43:27.240 And they, the

00:43:28.440 German government

00:43:29.860 is looking for,

00:43:31.740 they're constantly

00:43:33.180 saying, you

00:43:33.980 know, investigating

00:43:34.740 them for this or

00:43:35.600 that, the other,

00:43:36.440 constant harassment.

00:43:38.340 And this genuine

00:43:39.780 fear, I think,

00:43:40.600 they're up to 20%

00:43:41.820 of the vote or

00:43:42.500 something.

00:43:43.640 And in, back

00:43:45.180 to reform,

00:43:47.020 what I've

00:43:48.660 noticed is a

00:43:49.520 shift now where

00:43:51.260 you've had these

00:43:52.980 UKIP kind of

00:43:54.080 parties and they

00:43:55.060 didn't get that

00:43:55.660 much of a hard

00:43:56.320 time.

00:43:57.180 And I think

00:43:57.900 there's elements

00:43:58.600 in the media and

00:43:59.860 in the political

00:44:00.440 establishment beginning

00:44:02.000 to get uncomfortable

00:44:02.860 where this is all

00:44:03.800 going.

00:44:04.800 Because there's a

00:44:06.020 sense where,

00:44:07.200 okay, I

00:44:08.360 mentioned this on

00:44:09.260 Twitter recently,

00:44:10.280 where it was

00:44:12.200 inevitable that the

00:44:13.100 Tories were going

00:44:14.460 to get a good

00:44:16.180 kicking at this

00:44:17.260 election.

00:44:18.580 And I think it's

00:44:19.380 beginning to dawn on

00:44:20.240 them now.

00:44:20.800 The idea is we

00:44:22.860 kick you to death.

00:44:24.240 This isn't just

00:44:26.140 going to be, oh,

00:44:27.360 we're going to

00:44:28.020 give you a good

00:44:29.280 pounding at the

00:44:31.360 election and then

00:44:32.540 you're going to

00:44:32.840 pick yourself up and

00:44:33.760 then it's the same

00:44:34.460 cycle over again.

00:44:35.860 It's like, no,

00:44:36.820 we really do want to

00:44:38.200 end your party.

00:44:39.900 And now there's this

00:44:40.860 new insurgent party

00:44:41.880 came out which is

00:44:43.560 going to either

00:44:44.260 stab us in the

00:44:45.340 back or help us

00:44:46.720 do it.

00:44:47.520 And that remains to

00:44:48.520 be seen.

00:44:49.460 But within

00:44:50.260 Reform's

00:44:51.280 manifesto, what I

00:44:53.920 was actually quite

00:44:54.920 impressed with was

00:44:56.680 that there was a

00:44:58.620 lot of populism in

00:44:59.680 there, but there

00:45:00.700 was a lot of

00:45:01.540 stuff about

00:45:02.340 throwing out

00:45:03.220 something like the

00:45:04.620 Equality Act,

00:45:05.900 which we've only

00:45:07.680 had since 2010.

00:45:09.860 And it's kind of

00:45:10.420 our version of the

00:45:11.700 Civil Rights Act.

00:45:12.540 And they are all

00:45:14.260 about throwing that

00:45:15.080 out and making

00:45:17.440 changes in the

00:45:18.320 civil service.

00:45:19.920 So for us, I

00:45:22.120 think that's the

00:45:23.280 proper red meat

00:45:24.100 because what they're

00:45:25.160 doing is trying,

00:45:26.500 they're saying,

00:45:27.220 okay, we're going

00:45:27.720 to have a look at

00:45:28.260 the power structure

00:45:29.080 itself, how it

00:45:30.660 functions, and we're

00:45:31.840 going to start

00:45:32.300 shutting things down.

00:45:33.680 We're going to

00:45:34.140 start pulling the

00:45:34.960 Lego bricks out,

00:45:36.000 you know, and we're

00:45:36.920 going to start to

00:45:37.540 restructure things at

00:45:39.600 how the system

00:45:40.480 actually functions.

00:45:41.600 That was the

00:45:42.660 best.

00:45:43.180 So there's a lot

00:45:43.780 of stuff in

00:45:44.380 there about the

00:45:45.780 World Health

00:45:46.280 Organization and

00:45:47.760 stopping the small

00:45:48.640 boats and all of

00:45:49.920 this.

00:45:50.660 But there was some

00:45:51.480 stuff in there

00:45:52.760 which impressed me,

00:45:54.000 which was actually

00:45:55.220 about institutional

00:45:56.420 power.

00:45:58.360 So one of the

00:45:59.680 things that I think

00:46:00.480 when you look at

00:46:01.200 how populism has

00:46:02.260 evolved, and when

00:46:03.760 you're under these

00:46:05.020 sort of extreme

00:46:07.060 restrictions on

00:46:08.780 your speech,

00:46:09.680 which you don't

00:46:12.360 have in America,

00:46:13.140 a lot of people

00:46:13.760 in America say

00:46:14.660 all of these crazy

00:46:15.680 incendiary things,

00:46:17.700 and we just can't

00:46:19.320 do that.

00:46:20.480 And I think it

00:46:21.360 makes you have a

00:46:24.300 much more sober

00:46:25.280 analysis where you've

00:46:27.160 got to watch what

00:46:27.800 you're saying, but

00:46:28.520 you're thinking more

00:46:29.500 structurally about the

00:46:31.180 system itself,

00:46:32.060 because you're aware

00:46:33.560 of the institutions,

00:46:35.020 an institution like

00:46:36.020 Ofcom, which is

00:46:38.640 blocking you from

00:46:39.460 what you're saying.

00:46:40.420 And you think,

00:46:41.040 why do we have

00:46:42.080 that?

00:46:42.380 Why is there a

00:46:43.060 quango or, you

00:46:45.040 know, an

00:46:45.920 organization like

00:46:46.940 Hope Not Hate and

00:46:48.040 all of this?

00:46:49.260 And I think there's

00:46:50.340 a tendency to look

00:46:51.280 at things in a more

00:46:52.060 structural way in

00:46:53.000 Europe.

00:46:53.500 So the policies

00:46:54.540 is kind of far

00:46:58.380 right, as what a

00:46:59.800 lot of people would

00:47:00.420 like to think.

00:47:01.600 But what I'm

00:47:02.360 seeing is that

00:47:03.080 there's a lot more

00:47:04.140 sort of concentration

00:47:05.580 on the mechanisms

00:47:07.120 of how power

00:47:08.000 works itself.

00:47:09.060 And I think this

00:47:09.720 is what scares the

00:47:10.600 establishment,

00:47:11.660 especially in

00:47:12.380 somewhere like

00:47:12.980 Germany, because

00:47:13.900 if somebody starts

00:47:14.800 to pull out all

00:47:15.600 of those hate

00:47:16.220 speech laws or

00:47:17.260 fiddle about with

00:47:18.700 the German

00:47:19.100 Constitution and

00:47:20.340 this kind of

00:47:20.900 thing, they're

00:47:23.060 worried about that

00:47:23.860 a lot.

00:47:24.960 Yeah, we're

00:47:25.660 starting to get

00:47:26.160 that, too, in

00:47:27.160 the United States.

00:47:28.100 There's a lot of

00:47:28.980 kind of panicked

00:47:29.680 articles.

00:47:30.500 John Oliver just

00:47:31.340 did one of his

00:47:32.860 terrible monologues

00:47:33.920 about this on

00:47:34.820 HBO, but

00:47:36.320 constantly getting

00:47:37.200 this, oh, man,

00:47:38.140 the right is

00:47:39.100 actually starting to

00:47:39.800 figure out that

00:47:40.440 institutions matter,

00:47:41.980 that structure

00:47:42.860 matters, kind of

00:47:44.260 the populist

00:47:44.860 insurgents are

00:47:45.460 starting to figure

00:47:45.960 out that you

00:47:46.940 need to have

00:47:47.440 your own

00:47:47.820 bureaucrats, you

00:47:48.600 need to have

00:47:48.940 your own NGOs,

00:47:49.960 you need to

00:47:50.340 build up your

00:47:51.180 own kind of

00:47:51.700 counter organizations

00:47:53.500 to step in and

00:47:54.500 fill all these

00:47:55.160 managerial slots.

00:47:57.100 And so there's a

00:47:57.540 lot of panic

00:47:58.000 because for the

00:47:58.960 first time in a

00:47:59.900 long time, the

00:48:00.940 right is actually

00:48:01.420 looking at the

00:48:02.040 systemic causes

00:48:02.940 of the problem

00:48:04.540 rather than just

00:48:05.380 saying, well, we

00:48:05.940 win an election

00:48:06.600 and then it's

00:48:07.520 fine, right?

00:48:08.080 Because we did

00:48:08.840 the thing.

00:48:09.880 And so we are

00:48:10.600 seeing a lot of

00:48:11.160 panic here.

00:48:12.280 Before we go to

00:48:13.180 the questions of

00:48:14.120 people, I wanted

00:48:14.580 to ask you one

00:48:15.140 more thing.

00:48:15.660 You said this

00:48:16.260 somewhere in,

00:48:17.340 you know, earlier

00:48:18.280 in the interview,

00:48:19.740 and I just wanted

00:48:20.840 to ask you because

00:48:21.780 it has my head

00:48:23.000 scratching.

00:48:24.260 You know, I've

00:48:24.580 written an entire

00:48:25.140 book on why

00:48:26.500 it's important for

00:48:27.980 a lot of these

00:48:28.840 managerial elites to

00:48:29.820 globalize, right?

00:48:30.800 Like they open the

00:48:32.120 borders because it

00:48:32.900 breaks down

00:48:33.440 identities and

00:48:34.260 traditional

00:48:34.720 understandings of

00:48:35.500 society.

00:48:36.140 It breaks down

00:48:37.240 the particulars of

00:48:38.220 these different

00:48:38.880 religions and

00:48:40.200 peoples and the

00:48:41.360 history and

00:48:41.980 traditions that they

00:48:42.760 have to make it

00:48:43.480 easier for them to

00:48:44.260 be managed and to

00:48:45.860 be siphoned off as

00:48:46.720 capital and

00:48:47.540 everything else.

00:48:49.060 We're familiar with

00:48:50.140 all of this stuff,

00:48:51.680 but as you said,

00:48:53.640 the managerial elite

00:48:54.960 in England, they're

00:48:55.540 not bad at their

00:48:56.460 job.

00:48:57.100 They're good at it

00:48:58.080 and their job was

00:49:00.480 to do what it

00:49:01.640 is.

00:49:01.960 The system is

00:49:02.720 what it does and

00:49:04.180 what it's doing

00:49:04.720 right now is

00:49:05.480 dismantling

00:49:06.420 historical England

00:49:07.320 and trying to

00:49:08.380 displace the people

00:49:09.120 who live there.

00:49:10.460 And this has,

00:49:11.200 again, been kind

00:49:12.480 of the job of

00:49:13.420 most Western

00:49:14.200 governments, it

00:49:14.940 seems, at this

00:49:15.520 point.

00:49:16.320 But when you look

00:49:17.140 at all of the

00:49:17.880 factors being

00:49:18.600 involved, you

00:49:19.100 look at, like

00:49:19.860 you said, the

00:49:20.280 strain on

00:49:20.720 infrastructure, you

00:49:21.560 look at the

00:49:22.580 NHS and all of

00:49:25.800 these different

00:49:26.300 things that are

00:49:27.100 simply not going

00:49:27.920 to survive the

00:49:28.840 continued flood

00:49:29.640 of migrants.

00:49:30.740 I think there

00:49:31.580 was a recent

00:49:32.180 study from

00:49:32.900 England telling

00:49:34.140 us all what we

00:49:35.760 already knew, that

00:49:36.840 the mass

00:49:37.140 immigration had

00:49:37.800 not had the

00:49:38.460 expected economic

00:49:39.280 benefits on

00:49:41.000 your country and

00:49:41.660 instead it was a

00:49:42.400 disaster and

00:49:43.220 wasn't bringing

00:49:45.500 the promised

00:49:46.020 generational longevity

00:49:48.000 of those

00:49:48.980 institutions that

00:49:50.020 were supposed to

00:49:50.420 be buoyed by

00:49:51.100 the increased

00:49:51.580 population, but

00:49:53.080 was also just

00:49:53.700 bringing all the

00:49:54.160 problems that

00:49:54.580 come with that

00:49:55.380 population, like

00:49:56.340 housing and

00:49:56.860 everything else.

00:49:57.540 at some point

00:49:58.880 it really does

00:49:59.620 feel like these

00:50:00.600 people are bought

00:50:01.360 into a system

00:50:02.040 that even they

00:50:02.780 know has to

00:50:04.140 destroy itself,

00:50:05.280 right?

00:50:05.480 Like there is a

00:50:06.060 there's no

00:50:07.460 sustainability to

00:50:08.700 this.

00:50:09.000 The argument that

00:50:09.700 these people

00:50:10.100 coming in will

00:50:11.340 buoy the

00:50:12.500 infrastructure through

00:50:15.320 economic development,

00:50:16.500 they'll cover over

00:50:17.520 for lost populations,

00:50:18.740 which is already a

00:50:19.800 horrible argument

00:50:20.500 because those people

00:50:21.320 have right to their

00:50:22.060 own countries, but

00:50:23.260 anyway, that's been

00:50:24.160 the economic argument

00:50:25.140 for this.

00:50:25.740 That seems to be

00:50:26.540 falling apart.

00:50:27.540 What do you think

00:50:28.000 continues to drive

00:50:28.860 this, even in the

00:50:29.640 face of what is

00:50:30.900 obviously just a

00:50:32.140 lie about how

00:50:33.320 these managerial

00:50:34.120 systems will be

00:50:34.860 able to continue

00:50:35.560 themselves by

00:50:36.780 bringing in vast

00:50:37.860 amounts of

00:50:38.420 foreigners?

00:50:40.400 Yeah, I honestly

00:50:41.880 don't know.

00:50:42.460 I don't know.

00:50:43.340 I think we're

00:50:44.320 reaching the point

00:50:45.220 now where they're

00:50:47.100 saying we've got a

00:50:48.860 problem because if

00:50:50.220 you look at the

00:50:51.020 population of just

00:50:53.180 of England, which

00:50:54.760 would be officially

00:50:55.960 probably about 60

00:50:57.280 something million,

00:50:59.160 you know, that

00:50:59.720 would be one of

00:51:00.540 the smallest

00:51:01.160 American states.

00:51:02.700 And so it

00:51:04.340 gets to the

00:51:05.420 point where, yeah,

00:51:07.000 you can shut

00:51:07.600 people down for

00:51:08.820 being racist or

00:51:10.860 all of the

00:51:11.640 political correct

00:51:12.460 things, but

00:51:13.760 they're now

00:51:14.140 reaching a point

00:51:14.880 where it's

00:51:15.960 infrastructurally

00:51:16.760 just no longer

00:51:17.540 feasible for this

00:51:18.840 to carry on.

00:51:19.700 and there has

00:51:21.880 to be some

00:51:22.300 kind of

00:51:22.700 correcting

00:51:23.140 mechanism to

00:51:24.060 that.

00:51:24.860 Now, what

00:51:26.140 you could say

00:51:26.920 is that when

00:51:27.640 Labour come in,

00:51:28.500 they will

00:51:28.880 actually bring

00:51:29.540 it down.

00:51:29.980 So this is

00:51:30.360 something like

00:51:31.360 what EA would

00:51:32.520 say, was that

00:51:33.400 they're going to

00:51:33.780 be just sensible.

00:51:35.280 They're going to

00:51:35.760 be, they're still

00:51:36.580 going to be, it's

00:51:37.340 still the system,

00:51:38.620 but they're going

00:51:39.280 to be more

00:51:40.160 pragmatic and

00:51:41.180 they're going to

00:51:41.540 look at the

00:51:41.960 numbers and

00:51:42.500 they're going to

00:51:42.820 do it.

00:51:43.620 But the problem

00:51:44.160 is if we take

00:51:45.080 the, I mean,

00:51:47.160 I think the

00:51:47.800 last few

00:51:48.280 years of

00:51:48.640 inflation have

00:51:49.560 been completely

00:51:50.660 insane because

00:51:51.480 they were doing

00:51:52.120 that, that

00:51:52.580 there's a phrase

00:51:53.160 going around

00:51:53.800 quantitative easing

00:51:55.360 with people

00:51:56.080 where during the

00:51:57.140 pandemic, they

00:51:57.800 it's a horrible

00:52:03.380 term, but I've

00:52:05.260 seen it going

00:52:05.960 around a little

00:52:06.840 bit.

00:52:07.540 And basically

00:52:08.040 the idea is

00:52:09.100 they printed

00:52:10.840 off all of

00:52:11.460 these hundreds

00:52:11.880 of billions

00:52:12.540 during the

00:52:13.240 pandemic, but

00:52:14.420 they were

00:52:14.680 terrified of

00:52:15.380 inflation kicking

00:52:16.280 in afterwards.

00:52:17.160 So they just

00:52:17.700 kind of flooded

00:52:18.320 the zone with

00:52:19.020 bodies, this

00:52:20.160 quantitative easing

00:52:21.360 with people to

00:52:22.520 sort of sponge

00:52:23.380 up and absorb

00:52:24.320 all of this

00:52:25.100 money so the

00:52:25.820 economy didn't

00:52:26.580 tank.

00:52:27.260 So we may

00:52:28.280 actually see the

00:52:29.040 numbers come

00:52:29.540 down.

00:52:29.960 Problem is

00:52:30.300 those people

00:52:30.800 are here now

00:52:31.540 and even

00:52:32.880 sort of moderate

00:52:36.620 numbers which get

00:52:38.060 thrown around are

00:52:38.860 more than peak

00:52:39.680 Tony Blair numbers

00:52:40.660 now.

00:52:41.860 And yeah, you

00:52:42.700 have to think

00:52:44.180 how long can

00:52:45.820 this go on?

00:52:46.480 I just don't

00:52:47.140 see that it

00:52:47.620 can.

00:52:49.120 The housing

00:52:49.920 where you

00:52:50.580 just can't get

00:52:51.620 on the housing

00:52:52.160 ladder anymore.

00:52:53.540 I mean, one

00:52:54.640 of the things

00:52:55.120 that the sort

00:52:55.920 of the liberal

00:52:56.900 side of this

00:52:57.680 will say is

00:52:59.200 that it's the

00:53:02.540 fault of the

00:53:03.880 Tories for not

00:53:04.820 building enough

00:53:05.660 houses or this

00:53:07.520 and then you get

00:53:08.820 into the scenario

00:53:09.400 where you're just

00:53:09.980 concreting over the

00:53:10.860 whole country.

00:53:12.020 But even

00:53:12.400 then, they'll

00:53:16.680 say there's all

00:53:17.300 of these

00:53:17.580 infrastructural

00:53:18.360 problems and

00:53:19.360 that's the

00:53:19.880 problem, not

00:53:20.440 the immigrants

00:53:21.000 themselves.

00:53:22.340 And what gets

00:53:23.640 me is that you

00:53:24.440 can say, okay,

00:53:25.200 well, why don't

00:53:25.960 we put a halt

00:53:26.980 on immigration

00:53:27.660 for two years

00:53:28.760 until we get

00:53:30.080 all of that

00:53:30.560 done, even

00:53:31.760 though they've

00:53:32.180 got no way to

00:53:32.880 get that done,

00:53:33.960 but they wouldn't

00:53:34.740 have that either.

00:53:35.320 So the flood

00:53:36.820 continues, even

00:53:39.200 despite the fact

00:53:39.940 they know, even

00:53:40.800 if you say, okay,

00:53:41.620 we need the

00:53:42.180 infrastructure, you're

00:53:42.980 right, they still

00:53:44.020 won't halt it.

00:53:46.600 It's like, you

00:53:47.860 know what I mean?

00:53:48.600 It's like, well,

00:53:49.140 let's build the

00:53:50.600 bridge first.

00:53:52.700 No, we just

00:53:53.420 carry on jumping

00:53:54.100 over the edge.

00:53:55.220 We'll try and

00:53:55.780 build it as we

00:53:56.380 go.

00:53:56.840 It's amazing.

00:53:57.640 We have the exact

00:53:58.180 same dynamic here

00:53:59.100 where it's just, oh,

00:54:00.420 well, the

00:54:01.140 infrastructure is the

00:54:01.800 problem.

00:54:02.140 Okay, well, why

00:54:02.740 don't we just

00:54:03.160 reduce the number

00:54:03.820 of people coming

00:54:04.460 in while we

00:54:05.220 fix the

00:54:05.520 infrastructure?

00:54:06.200 Oh, no, we

00:54:06.760 need like 100

00:54:07.700 million more

00:54:08.300 people.

00:54:09.140 The infrastructure

00:54:09.560 is failing, but

00:54:10.320 we need to have

00:54:11.400 100 million more

00:54:12.160 people.

00:54:13.340 We just need to

00:54:14.040 spend double that

00:54:14.820 in infrastructure.

00:54:15.660 It's like, well,

00:54:15.980 even if you did,

00:54:16.620 you'd never catch

00:54:17.420 up.

00:54:17.760 The amount of

00:54:18.520 people you're

00:54:18.980 bringing in, you

00:54:19.740 will never catch

00:54:20.760 up, even if we

00:54:21.460 dedicated the

00:54:22.980 wealth of the

00:54:23.720 top 500

00:54:25.320 wealthiest people

00:54:27.580 in the United

00:54:27.980 States to

00:54:28.600 building the

00:54:29.120 infrastructure

00:54:29.440 projects we're

00:54:29.980 talking about.

00:54:30.660 We couldn't

00:54:31.080 possibly keep

00:54:31.740 pace with the

00:54:32.140 amount of

00:54:32.380 people you're

00:54:32.740 letting in.

00:54:33.160 Well, we don't

00:54:33.540 care.

00:54:33.940 The open borders

00:54:34.620 are not the

00:54:35.020 problem, no

00:54:35.440 matter what.

00:54:36.440 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:37.660 And a lot of

00:54:38.540 these people will

00:54:39.240 consider themselves

00:54:40.080 green as well.

00:54:41.000 So at the same

00:54:41.560 time that you've

00:54:42.700 got the, I mean,

00:54:43.460 one of the big

00:54:43.980 things that labor

00:54:44.660 are going to go

00:54:45.380 in all in on,

00:54:46.340 I think, is the

00:54:46.800 net zero stuff.

00:54:47.700 So that, like, the

00:54:49.460 regulations are going

00:54:50.760 to come in to make

00:54:51.460 it even harder.

00:54:53.000 I mean, a lot of

00:54:53.860 people will say this

00:54:54.600 is all part of a

00:54:55.380 sinister agenda to

00:54:56.460 get everybody living

00:54:57.360 in 15-minute cities

00:54:59.060 or whatever.

00:55:00.420 And it's difficult

00:55:01.880 to refute it when

00:55:02.760 you're looking, you

00:55:04.040 know, how else are

00:55:05.280 you going to live?

00:55:06.320 Yeah.

00:55:06.820 There's that legendary

00:55:08.300 Twitter quote of

00:55:10.600 the, no, America is

00:55:11.760 not full.

00:55:12.180 We could grind

00:55:12.900 everyone down to a

00:55:13.940 fine powder and

00:55:14.900 fit another 20

00:55:16.060 grillion people into

00:55:17.200 every city.

00:55:18.200 Yeah.

00:55:18.420 Yeah, it's, it's,

00:55:20.160 and, you know, to

00:55:21.480 get back to what's

00:55:23.000 been happening, Farage

00:55:24.680 is really hammering

00:55:27.080 all of these points.

00:55:29.340 So you can say,

00:55:31.160 look, even if it's

00:55:32.900 containment, even if

00:55:34.200 you want to have the

00:55:34.880 most cynical attitude,

00:55:37.820 what he's saying is

00:55:39.220 objectively true.

00:55:40.780 And I think when

00:55:41.620 you're reaching these

00:55:42.600 sort of critical

00:55:44.080 numbers on, on, on

00:55:46.780 infrastructure and on,

00:55:48.040 on things beginning to

00:55:49.000 break down, you can

00:55:50.580 step forward and say,

00:55:52.320 look, everybody knows

00:55:54.020 this is bad.

00:55:54.900 Somebody's going to

00:55:55.600 have to say it here

00:55:56.600 with the system needs

00:55:57.620 to correct itself.

00:56:00.200 Something we can't,

00:56:01.640 we, you know, it's

00:56:02.380 that little thing.

00:56:03.560 We can't go on like

00:56:05.080 this as, as the

00:56:06.220 said in the Soviet

00:56:07.000 union, we just

00:56:08.080 can't live like this

00:56:09.080 anymore.

00:56:10.180 All right, guys.

00:56:10.960 Well, I brought you

00:56:11.640 white-pilled Morgoth.

00:56:13.200 So you can all, you

00:56:14.480 know, make sure you

00:56:15.380 save this one.

00:56:16.400 I don't know if you'll

00:56:16.860 ever see it again, but

00:56:18.080 if Morgoth is delivering

00:56:19.180 some hope and some

00:56:20.700 white pills on this

00:56:21.500 one, then, you know,

00:56:23.020 bye, bye, bye.

00:56:24.160 I guess.

00:56:24.620 Well, I will say it.

00:56:26.260 I will say it.

00:56:27.160 Prepare yourselves.

00:56:28.700 Enjoy it while it

00:56:29.620 lasts because you're

00:56:30.340 facing 10 years of

00:56:31.460 labor.

00:56:32.180 10 years of hard

00:56:33.280 labor is coming

00:56:34.500 towards you.

00:56:35.660 All right.

00:56:35.920 There's the Morgoth we

00:56:36.840 know and love.

00:56:37.420 There it is.

00:56:37.820 OK, it's back at the

00:56:39.120 character.

00:56:39.940 All right.

00:56:40.220 Let's go over to the

00:56:41.540 questions of the people.

00:56:43.020 But before we do, man,

00:56:44.460 can you let people know

00:56:45.160 where to find your

00:56:45.800 fantastic work?

00:56:47.580 On YouTube and on

00:56:50.500 Substack.

00:56:51.500 Almost everything that I

00:56:52.620 do goes on Substack.

00:56:53.600 I'm going to drop a

00:56:54.680 little article later

00:56:57.240 tonight or tomorrow

00:56:58.660 about the thing that

00:57:00.140 happened with Stonehenge

00:57:00.820 and the kind of

00:57:02.320 bug man attitude of

00:57:03.460 saying it's just a

00:57:04.600 pile of rocks, which

00:57:05.700 I'm going to touch on

00:57:07.080 that.

00:57:07.620 Get into a little bit

00:57:08.460 of esoteric stuff

00:57:10.940 of that.

00:57:12.120 Yeah.

00:57:12.260 So strange that these

00:57:13.340 stop oil guys never

00:57:15.300 protest by like wrecking

00:57:17.000 a civil rights monument

00:57:18.580 or a Holocaust museum

00:57:20.100 or it's always something

00:57:21.980 of historical beauty

00:57:23.200 connected to the

00:57:23.960 nation.

00:57:24.340 So strange.

00:57:24.840 I do.

00:57:26.880 I mean, I do have a

00:57:27.640 little I do find it

00:57:29.100 fascinating that, you

00:57:30.380 know, in Stonehenge in

00:57:31.520 particular, it was this

00:57:32.780 pagan site.

00:57:33.640 It was for measuring

00:57:34.460 the sun and the moon

00:57:37.000 and celestial bodies.

00:57:39.040 And in particular, the

00:57:40.500 sun is like sort of

00:57:42.140 really important to

00:57:43.280 druids and fertility

00:57:44.740 rights and all this.

00:57:46.180 And it's like the

00:57:47.620 climate change

00:57:48.440 activists, if you look

00:57:50.820 at it all, they hate

00:57:52.120 the sun.

00:57:53.060 They hate the life

00:57:54.320 giving form.

00:57:55.700 You know, they hate

00:57:56.860 what it's literal

00:57:57.980 death.

00:57:58.760 They shriek away.

00:58:00.480 We hate the sun.

00:58:01.520 We have to wage war

00:58:02.660 on the sun.

00:58:03.340 And I'm going to touch

00:58:04.320 on that in a little

00:58:05.240 article on Substack.

00:58:07.420 All right.

00:58:07.780 Looking forward to it,

00:58:08.800 guys.

00:58:09.080 Let's grab your

00:58:09.660 questions here.

00:58:11.360 Elijah Times says

00:58:13.160 small government

00:58:14.220 conservatives reject

00:58:15.260 exercising state

00:58:16.900 power and view

00:58:17.680 themselves as

00:58:18.260 photo casting the

00:58:18.960 ring into Mount

00:58:19.420 Doom.

00:58:20.040 But in reality,

00:58:21.460 they're a Denethor

00:58:22.240 telling the defenders

00:58:23.260 of Gondor to

00:58:24.020 abandon their

00:58:24.920 post.

00:58:25.500 Yeah.

00:58:25.700 Over and over

00:58:26.240 again, we see

00:58:26.880 this excuse.

00:58:27.940 We can't take

00:58:28.600 power.

00:58:29.160 We're not those

00:58:29.760 guys.

00:58:30.300 We don't take

00:58:30.980 action.

00:58:31.520 That's against

00:58:31.880 our principles.

00:58:32.940 By the way,

00:58:33.600 have you noticed

00:58:34.140 the entire country

00:58:34.880 is falling apart

00:58:35.600 because the other

00:58:36.340 side constantly

00:58:37.240 exercises power?

00:58:38.740 That's their

00:58:39.140 principle.

00:58:41.180 See here.

00:58:41.640 Life of Brian

00:58:42.140 says the notion

00:58:43.600 of Tories as

00:58:44.940 and as accelerant

00:58:46.440 of radicalism

00:58:47.720 goes to Oren's

00:58:48.560 point that

00:58:49.180 conservatives are

00:58:54.200 just embarrassed

00:58:55.140 liberals.

00:58:56.840 Yeah, I think

00:58:57.600 that's certainly

00:58:58.340 the case.

00:58:59.140 The fact that

00:59:00.020 getting rid of

00:59:00.840 these guys

00:59:01.640 would create

00:59:03.340 this nightmare

00:59:03.960 scenario for

00:59:04.920 the system

00:59:05.660 like you're

00:59:06.660 seeing now

00:59:07.320 probably means

00:59:08.260 that, well,

00:59:09.560 I mean, it's

00:59:10.160 not probably.

00:59:10.820 It's very clear

00:59:11.480 that the Tory

00:59:12.680 party has been

00:59:13.260 operating as

00:59:14.100 just a control

00:59:15.080 for what is

00:59:15.640 already a

00:59:16.120 progressive agenda.

00:59:17.180 There was never

00:59:17.700 any real pushback

00:59:19.720 there, I don't

00:59:20.500 think.

00:59:20.820 Do you think

00:59:21.600 there was ever

00:59:22.140 any pushback

00:59:23.020 from that side,

00:59:24.640 Morgoth, or has

00:59:25.160 this always just

00:59:25.740 been complete

00:59:26.240 containment?

00:59:26.580 Within the Tory

00:59:27.340 party?

00:59:28.240 Yeah.

00:59:29.560 You maybe have

00:59:30.920 a lone voice

00:59:31.680 here or there,

00:59:32.220 but they're

00:59:32.500 completely powerless.

00:59:33.600 The Tory party

00:59:34.520 exists only to

00:59:35.820 contain to its

00:59:36.780 right.

00:59:37.760 What makes

00:59:38.320 what's happening

00:59:39.140 now so interesting

00:59:40.380 is that because

00:59:41.020 of the censorship

00:59:41.840 and all kinds

00:59:42.820 of sort of

00:59:43.620 MI5s,

00:59:44.680 intelligence ops,

00:59:45.880 there wasn't

00:59:46.540 anything to

00:59:47.340 contain.

00:59:48.200 You know,

00:59:48.640 people, this

00:59:49.840 term containment

00:59:50.820 gets bandied

00:59:51.640 around so

00:59:52.340 much, but in

00:59:53.720 Britain, there'd

00:59:54.760 been such a

00:59:55.440 hatchet job done

00:59:56.900 on right-wing

00:59:57.720 organizations and

00:59:59.080 new parties,

01:00:01.040 they'd been

01:00:01.460 butchered and

01:00:03.280 censored off

01:00:04.160 everything and

01:00:04.840 debunked to

01:00:05.860 such a degree

01:00:06.560 that there was

01:00:07.400 nothing to

01:00:08.600 contain.

01:00:09.680 There was

01:00:09.900 nothing left.

01:00:11.600 And now we've

01:00:13.000 got it just

01:00:13.720 popped out of

01:00:14.480 the ether.

01:00:14.860 It really

01:00:15.980 was amazing

01:00:16.500 to me when

01:00:16.840 Sunak was

01:00:17.300 just like,

01:00:17.720 yeah, we'll

01:00:17.940 just shut

01:00:18.280 down the

01:00:18.560 kid's bank

01:00:19.020 account.

01:00:19.540 Like, I

01:00:19.740 like just so

01:00:20.500 casually, like,

01:00:21.640 yeah, we'll

01:00:22.160 just make it

01:00:22.580 impossible for

01:00:23.120 you to buy

01:00:23.440 or sell.

01:00:23.920 What?

01:00:24.280 That's a

01:00:24.960 standard thing

01:00:25.520 that we do.

01:00:26.000 It's like,

01:00:26.200 wow, man,

01:00:26.540 that's just

01:00:27.840 powerful evil

01:00:28.620 in public.

01:00:29.280 Okay.

01:00:30.500 Let's see

01:00:31.080 here.

01:00:32.080 And on

01:00:32.660 reviewer says

01:00:33.420 Brian McCallaghan

01:00:35.140 refers to

01:00:35.780 neocons as

01:00:36.420 Straussian.

01:00:37.200 What is

01:00:37.480 Straussian

01:00:37.960 exactly?

01:00:39.020 So he's

01:00:39.440 referencing the

01:00:40.320 philosopher

01:00:40.920 Leo Strauss.

01:00:42.160 Leo Strauss is

01:00:43.220 famous for a

01:00:44.240 couple of

01:00:44.580 things, talking

01:00:45.920 about the

01:00:46.280 difference between

01:00:46.780 the moderns and

01:00:47.560 the ancients.

01:00:48.260 I'm actually

01:00:48.600 reading Strauss's

01:00:49.980 thoughts on

01:00:51.220 Machiavelli at

01:00:51.920 the moment.

01:00:52.600 I'm not a

01:00:53.420 Straussian in any

01:00:54.660 sense, but he

01:00:56.160 does have some

01:00:57.520 interesting things

01:00:58.680 to say about

01:00:59.340 Machiavelli.

01:01:00.760 I think when

01:01:01.720 most people talk

01:01:02.400 about Straussianism,

01:01:04.380 a lot of people

01:01:05.460 think of Strauss as

01:01:07.020 one of the

01:01:08.380 key philosophers

01:01:09.660 for the

01:01:10.440 neoconservative

01:01:11.260 movement.

01:01:12.460 Also, on

01:01:13.200 another level,

01:01:14.000 people talk

01:01:14.600 about neocons

01:01:15.460 being Straussian

01:01:16.280 because Strauss

01:01:17.280 famously says

01:01:18.260 that a

01:01:19.240 philosopher needs

01:01:19.920 to communicate

01:01:20.460 on two levels.

01:01:21.680 He needs the

01:01:22.440 kind of

01:01:23.000 esoteric,

01:01:24.380 this is only

01:01:27.480 for the people

01:01:28.200 who will

01:01:28.540 understand it.

01:01:29.240 I need to

01:01:29.560 write at one

01:01:30.700 level just for

01:01:31.380 the people who

01:01:31.880 will read

01:01:32.380 heavily into

01:01:33.100 this and will

01:01:33.880 do the work

01:01:34.980 to find its

01:01:35.520 real meaning.

01:01:37.300 And then he

01:01:37.560 also has kind

01:01:38.260 of the lower

01:01:38.840 level, the

01:01:39.640 lower level,

01:01:40.560 lower resolution

01:01:41.980 version of this,

01:01:43.180 which is, you

01:01:44.380 know, everyone

01:01:44.880 should get.

01:01:45.560 So there's

01:01:45.980 something to

01:01:46.840 understand at

01:01:47.440 Machiavelli at

01:01:48.160 one level if

01:01:48.840 you just read

01:01:49.360 the prints with

01:01:50.620 a basic reading,

01:01:51.340 but then there's

01:01:51.780 like a whole

01:01:52.220 another level of

01:01:52.980 meaning if you

01:01:53.920 understand all

01:01:54.440 the background

01:01:54.920 and all the

01:01:55.540 references he's

01:01:56.180 making and all

01:01:57.100 the history and

01:01:57.840 things that are

01:01:58.260 being brought in.

01:01:59.260 He says the

01:01:59.640 same thing about

01:02:00.240 Plato.

01:02:01.160 And so a lot

01:02:01.840 of people think

01:02:02.260 this is where

01:02:02.700 neocons get

01:02:03.520 their idea that

01:02:04.220 you can like

01:02:05.120 lie to the

01:02:05.900 people because

01:02:06.560 it's necessary

01:02:07.220 to only tell

01:02:07.840 them part of

01:02:08.500 the truth.

01:02:09.300 There's like a

01:02:09.760 noble lie that

01:02:10.480 you present to

01:02:11.040 the people about

01:02:11.520 what your

01:02:11.820 motivations are,

01:02:13.040 why you're

01:02:13.400 going to war,

01:02:14.480 these kind of

01:02:14.960 things.

01:02:15.560 And then there's

01:02:16.140 like the higher

01:02:16.700 level of what

01:02:17.360 you're actually

01:02:17.780 operating at.

01:02:19.040 There's more to

01:02:19.780 it, but that's

01:02:20.360 kind of a basic

01:02:20.940 explanation of

01:02:21.780 why a lot of

01:02:22.780 people identify

01:02:23.820 neocons as

01:02:24.700 Straussians.

01:02:25.240 tiny stupid

01:02:29.560 demon here says

01:02:30.500 nonsense.

01:02:31.620 Cthul assures

01:02:32.500 me that if I

01:02:33.780 just vote for

01:02:34.520 him one more

01:02:35.400 time, he'll

01:02:35.880 finally start

01:02:36.480 swimming.

01:02:36.960 Right.

01:02:37.200 Yes.

01:02:37.540 The classic

01:02:38.940 sirens call of

01:02:40.040 just one more

01:02:40.960 vote.

01:02:41.460 Just one more

01:02:42.280 time, guys.

01:02:42.780 This election

01:02:43.300 will change it

01:02:44.520 all.

01:02:46.220 It's true,

01:02:47.160 isn't it?

01:02:48.900 I mean, we're

01:02:49.700 doing we're

01:02:50.380 enduring it now

01:02:51.140 with Trump,

01:02:51.740 though it does

01:02:52.180 feel in the same

01:02:53.160 way that you

01:02:53.580 guys are it

01:02:54.220 feels like

01:02:54.540 something might

01:02:55.320 be in the air.

01:02:55.920 You know, the

01:02:56.160 fact that they're

01:02:56.640 literally trying to

01:02:57.360 imprison Trump

01:02:58.860 does make it

01:02:59.940 feel like this

01:03:00.380 might actually be

01:03:01.500 real politics and

01:03:02.400 not fake politics

01:03:03.200 for once.

01:03:04.880 Robert Weinsfeld

01:03:05.800 says save

01:03:06.720 ourselves first,

01:03:08.540 but here's a

01:03:09.760 neocon nation

01:03:10.480 building project

01:03:11.360 invade Canada,

01:03:12.640 England,

01:03:13.040 Australia,

01:03:13.560 liberate all our

01:03:14.220 fellow English

01:03:14.740 speaking peoples.

01:03:15.880 Yeah, like

01:03:16.240 reverse this,

01:03:18.340 like America

01:03:18.900 goes on a tour.

01:03:19.940 Of course, many

01:03:20.400 people would say

01:03:21.000 America has already

01:03:21.900 conquered those

01:03:22.660 nations, and

01:03:23.220 that's why

01:03:23.540 we're here in

01:03:24.900 the current

01:03:25.300 situation, or

01:03:26.500 at least the

01:03:26.860 global American

01:03:27.480 empire.

01:03:28.000 I guess you can

01:03:28.360 take whatever

01:03:28.760 reading of that

01:03:29.340 you'd like.

01:03:31.320 Yeah, I mean,

01:03:32.080 one of the funny

01:03:32.760 things that's

01:03:33.440 happening is one

01:03:35.520 of the big

01:03:35.940 discussion points

01:03:36.820 is what's called

01:03:37.760 the European

01:03:38.280 Court of Human

01:03:39.320 Rights, which

01:03:40.460 Churchill actually

01:03:41.580 invented, and

01:03:43.040 there's a lot, I

01:03:43.620 think there's about

01:03:44.040 like 40 or 50

01:03:45.200 countries signed

01:03:46.580 up to it, mainly

01:03:47.400 in Europe, and

01:03:48.260 then, you know,

01:03:49.000 over into some

01:03:51.500 of those little

01:03:51.940 states under

01:03:53.360 Russia are in

01:03:54.180 it as well, I

01:03:54.860 think.

01:03:55.900 And of course, if

01:03:56.940 you're signed in

01:03:58.360 to the European

01:03:59.020 Court of Human

01:03:59.740 Rights, this is

01:04:00.440 used by the

01:04:01.540 conservatives.

01:04:03.120 You'll say, we

01:04:03.960 can't stop people

01:04:05.040 flooding across the

01:04:06.000 English Channel on

01:04:06.780 boats because we're

01:04:07.980 signed up to that,

01:04:08.900 we can't remove

01:04:09.760 them, we're bound

01:04:10.440 by that treaty.

01:04:11.520 Now, people have

01:04:12.060 said, you just

01:04:12.800 ignore it.

01:04:13.460 But the discussion

01:04:17.440 is that, well, if

01:04:20.640 you leave that,

01:04:21.440 you're no better

01:04:22.040 than Russia or

01:04:22.900 China or these

01:04:24.520 countries.

01:04:25.580 But, you know, I'm

01:04:27.040 looking at these

01:04:27.580 Canada, Australia,

01:04:29.100 New Zealand, they're

01:04:30.380 not signed up to

01:04:31.800 the European Court

01:04:32.680 of Human Rights.

01:04:33.640 It's not as if

01:04:34.460 they're like

01:04:35.160 authoritarian

01:04:35.740 dictatorships who

01:04:37.500 are torturing

01:04:38.160 people.

01:04:38.620 I mean, they're

01:04:40.120 just as libtarded

01:04:41.000 as everybody else.

01:04:42.060 But the point of

01:04:44.580 it is that it's

01:04:45.300 just this idea

01:04:46.280 that you're going

01:04:48.380 to immediately, if

01:04:49.560 we don't have this

01:04:50.860 liberal institution

01:04:51.980 with their friends

01:04:53.260 in charge, because

01:04:54.320 that's what it's

01:04:54.820 about, of course,

01:04:55.860 then we're

01:04:58.000 immediately going to

01:04:59.020 become like Putin's

01:05:00.160 Russia or something

01:05:00.940 like that.

01:05:01.520 It's just so

01:05:02.160 ridiculous.

01:05:03.220 And by the way,

01:05:03.900 the European Court

01:05:04.720 of Human Rights

01:05:05.420 will not be there

01:05:06.600 when you're Sam

01:05:07.240 Malia and you're

01:05:08.080 locked up for a

01:05:09.520 sticker and you

01:05:10.180 can't see your

01:05:10.800 kids.

01:05:11.140 then it's

01:05:13.660 true.

01:05:14.000 All of these

01:05:14.440 things we've

01:05:14.960 learned over the

01:05:15.700 years, you

01:05:16.180 know, we've

01:05:16.500 studied, you see

01:05:17.540 it play out in

01:05:18.720 all of these

01:05:19.260 institutions and

01:05:20.200 the reality of

01:05:21.160 politics.

01:05:22.260 Yeah, the global

01:05:23.140 liberal order is

01:05:24.240 so selective and

01:05:25.720 it's always

01:05:26.060 hilarious when they

01:05:26.920 pretend like they're

01:05:27.480 bound by it as if

01:05:28.660 they aren't the

01:05:29.080 ones who are

01:05:29.780 completely constructing

01:05:31.420 it in the first

01:05:31.960 place.

01:05:32.700 Like international

01:05:33.220 law is a joke.

01:05:34.020 There's no such

01:05:34.480 thing as international

01:05:35.180 law.

01:05:35.960 That's not what

01:05:36.400 that's not what

01:05:37.020 that word means.

01:05:38.360 And so whenever

01:05:39.080 people are like,

01:05:39.720 we're bound by

01:05:40.360 the international

01:05:40.920 law, it's

01:05:41.440 like, no, you're

01:05:42.420 you're just

01:05:42.860 manipulating people.

01:05:44.700 But let's see,

01:05:46.800 we've got

01:05:47.260 emendations here

01:05:48.760 says if the

01:05:50.300 regime does indeed

01:05:51.360 push the start

01:05:53.300 hot war button

01:05:54.140 now, what will be

01:05:56.600 the impact on the

01:05:57.860 UK?

01:05:58.360 And is a

01:05:59.160 correct that all

01:06:00.600 dissent will cease?

01:06:02.200 Yeah.

01:06:02.340 What do you think

01:06:02.780 about that?

01:06:03.340 The thesis that this

01:06:04.960 is all gearing up

01:06:05.740 for us to go back

01:06:06.520 to war.

01:06:06.980 And once they

01:06:07.600 hit this button,

01:06:08.440 you know, it'll

01:06:08.980 all be silent.

01:06:10.500 To be fair, when

01:06:11.900 that's, it's my

01:06:13.040 thesis.

01:06:15.460 But I've been

01:06:16.900 saying, I've been

01:06:17.560 looking at

01:06:18.040 geopolitics for a

01:06:19.180 long time.

01:06:20.380 I mean, he, yeah,

01:06:21.180 he, he, he's, he

01:06:22.360 comes to the same

01:06:23.080 conclusion as I do

01:06:24.200 where, I mean, I

01:06:26.980 did an article a

01:06:27.800 while ago called

01:06:28.700 the online rights

01:06:29.600 Kobayashi Maru

01:06:30.740 test, which is,

01:06:32.340 it's a no win

01:06:33.020 situation.

01:06:33.680 So if you are

01:06:34.800 going to be, if

01:06:36.100 you're going to

01:06:36.460 sit in a NATO

01:06:37.380 country and just

01:06:38.920 overtly side with

01:06:40.140 the enemy, the, the,

01:06:41.880 you will be taken

01:06:42.740 to jail.

01:06:43.360 You will be at

01:06:44.400 least shut down.

01:06:45.800 They cannot and

01:06:47.100 will, you're in the

01:06:48.040 state of exception.

01:06:49.060 They cannot allow

01:06:50.340 that to stand.

01:06:51.380 And so then on the

01:06:52.840 other hand, you're

01:06:54.340 kind of in the

01:06:54.860 position of, well,

01:06:55.560 what do I do?

01:06:57.100 What, what, so in

01:06:58.500 my case, for

01:06:59.360 example, that he

01:07:00.200 had the impact on

01:07:01.040 the UK.

01:07:01.640 There is no way

01:07:04.100 if, because it's, I

01:07:05.820 don't know what the

01:07:06.440 situation is in

01:07:07.260 America, but we are

01:07:08.300 really getting a lot

01:07:09.500 of hot war rhetoric

01:07:10.380 now.

01:07:10.900 We're getting talk

01:07:11.640 of national service

01:07:12.540 and everything else.

01:07:13.460 So if there's a war

01:07:14.860 with Russia, there's

01:07:17.180 no way that I can

01:07:18.460 sit and write sort

01:07:20.600 of sub stack

01:07:22.120 articles or do

01:07:25.340 YouTube videos where

01:07:26.960 I am explicitly

01:07:28.260 saying with Putin

01:07:29.520 and the Russian

01:07:30.360 army against the

01:07:32.360 British government

01:07:33.600 and the British

01:07:34.120 army, you know, it

01:07:35.600 just won't stand.

01:07:36.680 Now you can, you

01:07:37.460 can sort of take a

01:07:39.300 pacifist position,

01:07:40.380 which I would,

01:07:41.360 because I'm not

01:07:41.960 really in any camp

01:07:43.520 as I wrote

01:07:44.060 recently.

01:07:44.820 I'm in the not

01:07:46.000 slowly dying in

01:07:48.020 radiation and

01:07:49.280 fallout camp.

01:07:50.400 That's, that's the

01:07:51.260 camp that I, is

01:07:52.080 that like, that's

01:07:52.740 the camp that I'm

01:07:53.840 in.

01:07:54.440 I just want a

01:07:55.440 little bit of

01:07:55.900 sanity to return

01:07:57.200 here to get to the

01:07:58.460 table and start

01:07:59.100 talking about

01:07:59.660 these things.

01:08:00.920 But yeah, you

01:08:01.860 will have to be

01:08:02.780 very, very careful

01:08:04.340 about what you

01:08:05.580 say, because I

01:08:07.320 actually think

01:08:07.940 there's some

01:08:08.320 people out there

01:08:09.060 who are leading

01:08:09.620 people down the

01:08:10.360 garden path where,

01:08:12.500 because if you, if

01:08:14.120 you're going to go

01:08:14.660 into that situation,

01:08:17.100 there's, if you

01:08:18.540 follow certain

01:08:19.860 influencers who are

01:08:21.180 really bombastic,

01:08:22.800 rah, rah, rah,

01:08:24.200 pro-Putin, it

01:08:25.860 could be that what's

01:08:26.760 actually happening

01:08:27.440 is that they're

01:08:28.500 flushing out the

01:08:29.880 potential traitors to

01:08:31.540 mark them down for

01:08:32.840 further on down the

01:08:33.800 line.

01:08:34.280 So in the event that

01:08:35.300 hostilities actually

01:08:36.280 break out, there's a

01:08:37.120 war situation, they

01:08:38.340 know straight away who

01:08:40.780 is going to go to

01:08:41.840 prison, because you

01:08:43.080 can't be trusted.

01:08:43.960 If there's countries

01:08:44.460 at war, they can't

01:08:45.720 have you running

01:08:46.360 around siding with

01:08:47.460 the enemy.

01:08:48.740 It's very, very

01:08:49.860 serious.

01:08:50.900 And so the British

01:08:51.900 state will look at

01:08:53.880 my stuff and they'll

01:08:54.900 say he's critical of

01:08:56.740 war in and of

01:08:57.940 itself or the

01:08:59.160 policies of the

01:09:00.380 British government,

01:09:01.300 but he's not

01:09:02.480 overtly siding with

01:09:03.800 the enemy against

01:09:04.680 us.

01:09:05.300 So, you know, but

01:09:06.400 it's a grazer one.

01:09:08.700 Yeah.

01:09:10.240 Creeper Reader, he

01:09:11.180 says, I'll, I'd

01:09:12.240 make a put the

01:09:12.920 woke away joke, but

01:09:13.920 it looks like AA's

01:09:14.920 zero seats has him

01:09:16.100 riding high.

01:09:17.260 Yeah, I'm not sure

01:09:17.780 how this bears on

01:09:18.600 the put the woke

01:09:19.200 away bet, but he

01:09:20.680 does deserve credit

01:09:21.860 for getting that

01:09:23.480 term coined and

01:09:24.780 you guys both

01:09:25.800 pushing that pretty

01:09:26.520 hard.

01:09:26.880 It's, it's a kind

01:09:27.960 of wild to see

01:09:28.660 that actually work

01:09:29.520 itself into the

01:09:30.520 mainstream.

01:09:32.860 Yeah, it's been

01:09:33.700 great.

01:09:35.760 Creeper Reader

01:09:36.480 also says, how

01:09:37.680 do you guys

01:09:38.120 counter the

01:09:38.600 critique that in

01:09:39.300 order to counter

01:09:39.960 globalism, each

01:09:40.900 nation's right has

01:09:42.460 to form a

01:09:43.040 coalition of

01:09:44.100 nationalist

01:09:45.440 nations?

01:09:46.460 I guess it's

01:09:47.200 enemies of my

01:09:48.080 enemy and enemies

01:09:49.180 of my enemies

01:09:49.680 thing.

01:09:50.340 Yeah, this is

01:09:50.800 something that,

01:09:51.500 that for instance,

01:09:52.700 Dugan talks about

01:09:54.020 in the fourth

01:09:54.520 political theory.

01:09:55.520 His solution to

01:09:56.300 this is

01:09:57.380 civilizational

01:09:58.260 blocks.

01:09:59.380 To be fair,

01:10:00.680 this is because

01:10:01.440 Dugan believes that

01:10:02.380 Russia should rule a

01:10:03.800 certain chunk of

01:10:04.680 the world.

01:10:05.400 So to get that out

01:10:06.620 of the way, he has

01:10:07.180 his own geopolitical

01:10:08.300 priorities here, but

01:10:09.800 he is building off the

01:10:10.680 work of guys like

01:10:11.300 Sam Huntington who

01:10:12.220 understand civilizations

01:10:13.880 as kind of the,

01:10:14.800 the, the kind of the

01:10:16.320 imperial blocks as

01:10:18.480 being the building

01:10:19.980 block for like how

01:10:20.980 we actually organize

01:10:22.140 that he says that

01:10:23.040 the, the, uh, the

01:10:24.540 civilization is large

01:10:25.680 enough to push back

01:10:26.520 against globalism.

01:10:27.680 The nation is too

01:10:28.460 small.

01:10:29.580 Um, others have

01:10:30.500 said that, and, and

01:10:31.640 I think that there

01:10:32.420 might be some merit

01:10:33.140 to this, that

01:10:33.940 ultimately you just

01:10:35.140 need the incentive

01:10:36.400 structure for large

01:10:37.760 global, uh,

01:10:39.460 organizations to

01:10:40.340 break down.

01:10:40.820 And we're starting to

01:10:41.460 see that where the

01:10:42.620 kind of this, uh,

01:10:43.780 hyper interconnected,

01:10:44.840 uh, globalism

01:10:46.200 becomes a detriment

01:10:47.420 rather than a

01:10:48.240 benefit.

01:10:48.700 Uh, once that

01:10:49.860 happens, then

01:10:50.960 organizing again at

01:10:52.320 the levels of

01:10:52.900 nations makes more

01:10:53.800 sense.

01:10:54.140 But right now every

01:10:55.580 nation is ultimately

01:10:56.660 driven to at least

01:10:58.120 kind of the imperial

01:10:58.940 level because, uh,

01:11:00.600 the, the benefits of

01:11:01.780 the, the vast

01:11:02.980 infrastructure is just,

01:11:04.120 uh, it's just

01:11:05.340 better.

01:11:05.860 Uh, you, it allows

01:11:06.960 you to keep pace with

01:11:07.880 other powers in a way

01:11:09.000 that focusing simply

01:11:10.540 on the kind of a, a

01:11:11.400 more natural formation

01:11:12.800 of a nation does not

01:11:13.740 let you do at the

01:11:14.380 moment.

01:11:15.660 I mean, one of the

01:11:17.720 strange things about

01:11:18.800 the European union

01:11:19.820 and how it works is

01:11:20.700 that that's what's

01:11:21.300 happening.

01:11:21.720 So, you know, we

01:11:22.600 got two back, you

01:11:23.380 had all of these

01:11:24.060 nationalist populist

01:11:25.000 parties getting huge

01:11:26.720 amounts of votes.

01:11:27.660 They are actually

01:11:28.540 going to, uh, create

01:11:30.000 or well that already

01:11:31.380 exists different blocks

01:11:33.720 within the European

01:11:34.960 union itself where they

01:11:36.400 sit down.

01:11:37.440 Um, and I, I mean,

01:11:39.380 I'm a bit skeptical if

01:11:40.660 they can actually do

01:11:41.500 much because it just

01:11:42.440 seems to be pure sort

01:11:43.660 of diktat.

01:11:45.060 Um, but, but yeah,

01:11:46.960 that, that's, that's

01:11:47.840 that's from all over

01:11:49.480 Europe, they will sit

01:11:50.920 together in one sort

01:11:52.300 of wedge, colored

01:11:53.560 wedge, which will

01:11:54.420 represent nationalists

01:11:56.040 and, and it goes

01:11:56.920 around like, you

01:11:58.020 know, you'll have

01:11:59.240 like some kind of

01:12:00.060 crazy kind of party

01:12:02.780 from, from Hungary

01:12:04.220 or, or Slovakia

01:12:05.740 somewhere with just

01:12:06.780 two guys sitting

01:12:07.600 there who are the

01:12:09.440 most extreme far

01:12:10.720 right thing you can

01:12:11.460 ever imagine as we

01:12:12.520 sitting there.

01:12:13.040 But yeah, you see

01:12:14.120 the European union

01:12:15.340 is where something

01:12:16.100 like that actually

01:12:16.840 manifests.

01:12:18.340 Interesting.

01:12:19.280 All right, guys,

01:12:20.080 well, we're going to

01:12:20.480 go ahead and wrap

01:12:21.180 this up, but, uh,

01:12:22.500 thank you so much

01:12:23.400 for joining me.

01:12:24.080 Morgoth, always a

01:12:25.080 pleasure to talk to

01:12:26.900 you, make sure that

01:12:27.620 everyone is checking

01:12:28.380 out, uh, uh, checking

01:12:30.540 out Morgoth's work.

01:12:31.540 And of course, if it's

01:12:32.760 your first time here

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01:12:46.060 And if you'd like

01:12:46.780 to pick up my book,

01:12:47.620 the total state, it's

01:12:48.640 available on Amazon.

01:12:49.680 It was sold out in

01:12:51.200 Britain, uh, in or

01:12:52.680 on, in the UK site,

01:12:53.860 uh, but it's back

01:12:54.900 now.

01:12:55.240 So you can pick it

01:12:55.860 up there or you can

01:12:56.580 also go to Barnes

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01:12:58.060 books million, pick

01:12:59.020 it up at your local

01:13:00.220 bookstore.

01:13:00.880 Thank you everyone for

01:13:02.040 watching.

01:13:02.480 And as always, I will

01:13:03.600 talk to you next

01:13:04.640 time.

The Auron MacIntyre Show - June 21, 2024

'Zero Seats' and the Future of British Populism ｜ Guest： Morgoth ｜ 6⧸21⧸24

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