The Ben Shapiro Show - BREAKING: TEXT EXCHANGES Between Kirk Killer, Trans Lover

00:00:00.000 Alrighty, folks.

00:00:00.000 Well, there is new information that has emerged about the actual shooter of Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 Tyler Robinson has now been charged with murder in Charlie's shooting, which of course we knew was coming because there's lots and lots and lots of information about this shooter.

00:00:13.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, Utah prosecutors unveiled seven charges Tuesday against Tyler Robinson in the shooting death of conservative activist Charlie Kirk on a college campus last week.

00:00:22.000 They said that they would seek the death penalty.

00:00:24.000 Here is the prosecutor Jeff Gray talking about the fact that they will be seeking the death penalty in the state of Utah.

00:00:30.000 Following the press conference, I am filing a notice of intent to seek the death penalty.

00:00:37.000 I do not take this decision lightly, and it is a decision I have made independently as county attorney, based solely on the available evidence and circumstances and nature of the crime.

00:00:52.000 Because we are seeking the death penalty, the defendant will continue to be held without bail in the Utah County jail.

00:01:01.000 The prosecutor in this case went on to explain that the shooter's DNA was found on the weapon.

00:01:06.000 Again, there's no doubt as to what happened here or why this happened.

00:01:09.000 It's an incredibly clear case of a political assassination.

00:01:13.000 Like crystal clear.

00:01:14.000 There is no mystery.

00:01:14.000 There is no enigma.

00:01:16.000 There is no shadowy conspiracy.

00:01:18.000 There is just the person who did the shooting and apparently a bunch of people behind the scenes who are encouraging him or echoing his desire to see it done.

00:01:26.000 Here again is the prosecutor.

00:01:30.000 The rifle, ammunition rounds, and towel were sent for forensic processing.

00:01:36.000 DNA consistent with Robin uh with defendant was found on the trigger, other parts of the rifle, the fired cartridge casing, two of the three unfired cartridges, and the towel.

00:01:51.000 Okay, well, the actual charging documents carried an enormous number more details.

00:01:58.000 Those charging documents point out that at the moment of the shot, a UVU political police officer, rather, was watching the crowd from an elevated vantage point.

00:02:07.000 As soon as he heard the shot, he began to scan the area for threats, believing the shot came from a rifle because of its sound.

00:02:12.000 He looked for potential sniper positions.

00:02:13.000 He noted a roof area approximately 160 yards away from Charlie as a potential shooting position and rushed there to look for the evidence.

00:02:20.000 The suspected shooting position is adjacent to an open, publicly accessible walkway.

00:02:24.000 To access the suspected location, a person must climb over a railing and then drop to the roof only slightly below.

00:02:29.000 The UVU officer climbed over the railing and down onto the roof.

00:02:31.000 He then walked to the suspected shooting position and confirmed a clear shooting corridor between the position and Mr. Kirk's seat.

00:02:37.000 They also noticed markings in the gravel rooftop consistent with a sniper having lain on the roof, impressions in the gravel potentially left by elbows, knees, and feet of a person in a prone shooting position.

00:02:47.000 A camera captured the suspect as he ran across the roof to the suspected shooting position.

00:02:53.000 The charging documents also explain that the shooter's mother said that over the last year or so, Robinson had become more political and had started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights oriented.

00:03:06.000 She stated that Robinson began to date his roommate, a biological male who was transitioning genders.

00:03:10.000 This resulted in several discussions with family members, but especially between Robinson and his father, who have very different political views.

00:03:16.000 In one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie Kirk would be holding an event at UVU, which Robinson said was a stupid venue for the event.

00:03:23.000 Robinson accused Kirk of spreading hate.

00:03:26.000 We'll get back to that in just a moment.

00:03:28.000 That particular line, spreading hate.

00:03:30.000 Robinson's father reported that when his wife showed him the surveillance image of the suspected shooter in the news, he agreed it looked like their son.

00:03:36.000 He also believed the rifle that police suspected the shooter used matched a rifle that was given to his son as a gift.

00:03:40.000 As a result, Robinson's father contacted his son and asked him to send a photo of the rifle.

00:03:44.000 Robinson did not respond.

00:03:46.000 Robinson's father spoke on the phone with Robinson, and Robinson implied he planned to take his own life.

00:03:50.000 Robinson's parents were able to convince him to meet at their home.

00:03:53.000 As they discussed the situation, Robinson implied he was the shooter and stated he couldn't go to jail and just wanted to end it.

00:03:58.000 When asked why he did it, Robinson explained there's too much evil and the guy, Charlie Kirk, spreads too much hate.

00:04:03.000 They talked about Robinson turning himself in and convinced Robinson to speak with a family friend who's a retired deputy sheriff.

00:04:10.000 According to those charging documents, police interviewed Robinson's roommate, a biological male who was involved in romantic relationship with Robinson.

00:04:17.000 The roommate told police that the roommate received messages from Robinson about the shooting and provided those messages to police.

00:04:24.000 Now, what I'm about to read, there are many theories about what exactly these text messages were.

00:04:29.000 One theory that my friend Matt Walsh has espoused, and I don't find highly implausible is the idea that the roommate was in on it, and that Tyler Robinson had basically planned out a conversation with his roommate in order to exonerate him, sort of breaking bad style.

00:04:43.000 If you remember the end of the series breaking bad, Skylar, who is the wife of Walter White.

00:04:47.000 She obviously knew about many of his crimes and covered it up and participated.

00:04:51.000 And Walter, in an attempt to exonerate her of the crimes, sets up a call with her in which he basically claims, and she acts shocked, that she had nothing to do with anything.

00:04:59.000 So that is a possible theory here.

00:05:01.000 It's also possible that these are just genuine.

00:05:04.000 But here is what the text messages and exchanges said.

00:05:07.000 Quote, on September 10th, the roommate received a text message from Robinson, which said, Drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.

00:05:13.000 The roommate looked under the keyboard and found a note that stated, quote, I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it.

00:05:19.000 Police found a photograph of this note.

00:05:21.000 The following text exchange that then took place.

00:05:24.000 After reading the note, the roommate responded, What?

00:05:26.000 With about 10 question marks, you're joking, right?

00:05:28.000 Four question marks.

00:05:29.000 Robinson, I am still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orim for a while a little while longer yet.

00:05:35.000 Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still.

00:05:38.000 To be honest, I had hoped to keep the secret till I died of old age.

00:05:40.000 I am sorry to involve you.

00:05:42.000 Roommate, you weren't the one who did it, right?

00:05:44.000 Robinson, I am, I'm sorry.

00:05:45.000 Roommate, I thought they caught the person.

00:05:47.000 Robinson.

00:05:48.000 No.

00:05:48.000 They grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing.

00:05:51.000 I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down.

00:05:56.000 It's quiet almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering.

00:05:59.000 Roommate.

00:05:59.000 Why?

00:05:59.000 Robinson.

00:06:00.000 Why did I do it?

00:06:01.000 Roommate, yeah.

00:06:02.000 I had enough of his hatred.

00:06:03.000 Some hate can't be negotiated out.

00:06:05.000 If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence.

00:06:08.000 Going to attempt to retrieve it again.

00:06:10.000 Hopefully they've moved on.

00:06:11.000 I haven't seen anything about them finding it.

00:06:13.000 Roommate, how long have you been planning this?

00:06:15.000 Robinson.

00:06:16.000 A bit over a week, I believe.

00:06:17.000 I can get close to it, but there is a squad car parked right by it.

00:06:20.000 I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it.

00:06:22.000 Robinson, I'm wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle.

00:06:26.000 I'm worried about my old man would do if I didn't bring back grandpa's rifle.

00:06:30.000 I DEK, if it had a serial number, I said was supposed to be, I don't know, if it had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me.

00:06:36.000 I worry about Prince, I had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits.

00:06:39.000 Didn't have the ability or time to bring it with me.

00:06:41.000 I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find Prince.

00:06:43.000 How the F L I explained losing it to my old man.

00:06:45.000 Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel.

00:06:48.000 Remember how I was engraving bullets?

00:06:50.000 The effing messages are mostly a big meme.

00:06:52.000 If I see notices bulge, UWU on Fox News, I might have a stroke.

00:06:57.000 All right, I'm gonna have to leave it.

00:06:58.000 That really effing sucks.

00:07:00.000 Judging from today, I'd say grandpa's gun does it just fine.

00:07:02.000 IDK, I think that was a $2,000 scope.

00:07:05.000 Robinson, delete this exchange.

00:07:07.000 Robinson, my dad wants photos of the rifle.

00:07:09.000 He says grandpa wants to know who has what.

00:07:11.000 The feds released a photo of the rifle, and it is very unique.

00:07:14.000 He is calling me right now, not answering.

00:07:16.000 Robinson, since Trump got into office, my dad has been pretty diehard MAGA.

00:07:19.000 Robinson, I'm gonna turn myself in willingly.

00:07:22.000 One of my neighbors here is a deputy for the sheriff.

00:07:24.000 Robinson, you are all I worry about, love.

00:07:26.000 Roommate, I'm much more worried about you.

00:07:28.000 Robinson, don't talk to the media, please.

00:07:29.000 Don't take any interviews or make any comments.

00:07:31.000 If any police ask you questions, ask for a lawyer and stay silent.

00:07:35.000 Hey, so, I mean, I just have one question here, which is if the roommate did not in fact call the police, does that make an accessory after the fact?

00:07:43.000 I mean, from what we understand, it was the father who called the cops.

00:07:46.000 It's the father who convinced the shooter to turn himself in.

00:07:50.000 But what is perfectly obvious is that we know the motive.

00:07:53.000 There is no doubt about the motive.

00:07:55.000 There is zero doubt, in fact, about the motive.

00:07:59.000 Charlie Kirk was shot because Charlie Kirk was a conservative who believed that men are not women.

00:08:03.000 Period.

00:08:03.000 End of story.

00:08:04.000 That is the motive.

00:08:05.000 We know who the shooter was, we know why the shooter did it.

00:08:08.000 Any extraneous conversations about other issues are a distraction from the reality of who did the shooting and the ideology that led to it.

00:08:14.000 They're not only a distraction, they're a waste of time, and they're stupid.

00:08:18.000 Okay, but the actual reality here is that there was one ideology that drove this, as I have been talking about for days now since the day of the shooting.

00:08:27.000 The permission structures that have existed for too long on the left for a trans ideology that labels as inherently dangerous, genocidal, and violent.

00:08:36.000 Anyone who says that a boy is not a girl, that's what created this.

00:08:41.000 Notice the use of that word, hate, hateful.

00:08:43.000 Charlie was hate for he was hate filled, he was hateful.

00:08:46.000 He was filled with hate.

00:08:47.000 What he was saying was just so hateful.

00:08:49.000 Yesterday, the Daily Wire team and I had the privilege of hosting Charlie's show alongside Andrew Colvet, Charlie's executive producer, it was me, Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles.

00:08:59.000 It was a truly Moving experience, obviously, to be sitting in the room that Charlie last occupied last week, and having a moment to spend with Erica, which was, I think truly devastating.

00:09:13.000 In any case, one of the things that happened during the show is that a clip was played of Charlie debating a young woman on the question of transgenderism.

00:09:24.000 And he asked her over and over and over what is a woman, which of course is a question that many of us on the right have asked, people on the left about the bizarre accusation or notion that men can magically become women.

00:09:34.000 But what I want to focus on here is the very last line that she says after it is clear that she cannot answer Charlie's questions.

00:09:41.000 Here is a very viral clip of Charlie talking about the trans issue.

00:09:45.000 What is a woman without using the word woman in the answer?

00:09:49.000 Can you can you answer that question or no?

00:09:51.000 It's just a person who believes they're a woman.

00:09:53.000 I mean, what's wrong with that?

00:09:55.000 You can't answer the qu you can't use the word woman in your answer.

00:09:59.000 The inability to answer the most fundamental obvious biological question, what is a woman?

00:10:03.000 This is not troubling.

00:10:04.000 Like it's so simple, it's so obvious.

00:10:06.000 And I guess the question is when is womanhood then achieved?

00:10:10.000 Just like for that, whenever they decide.

00:10:12.000 I mean, like, last chance.

00:10:16.000 Can you tell me what a woman is?

00:10:21.000 Are you a woman?

00:10:30.000 Why are you so hateful?

00:10:36.000 And Charlie laughs and everybody's laughing.

00:10:39.000 I asked you what a woman was.

00:10:40.000 That's not hateful.

00:10:41.000 I gave you the definition.

00:10:45.000 Okay.

00:10:45.000 Why are you so hateful?

00:10:47.000 Why are you so hateful?

00:10:48.000 And that's a laugh line, right?

00:10:49.000 Because everybody is sitting there going, that's not hateful.

00:10:51.000 Did Charlie say anything remotely hateful in that clip?

00:10:53.000 Anything.

00:10:53.000 He literally said, what is a woman?

00:10:55.000 Define the term without using the word woman.

00:10:57.000 There's nothing remotely hateful about that.

00:10:59.000 Nothing.

00:11:00.000 That is a very basic question.

00:11:02.000 That's like define cup without using the word cup.

00:11:04.000 You say, okay, it's a vessel that is capable of carrying liquid, right?

00:11:07.000 Any definition that you use has to be defined with reference to other defined terms.

00:11:12.000 You can't say a cup is a thing that believes it's a cup or a cup is a cup.

00:11:16.000 That doesn't add any content or information to the definition.

00:11:19.000 That's what Charlie's saying.

00:11:20.000 And she labels it hateful.

00:11:21.000 Why am I focusing in on that?

00:11:22.000 Because the use of that word hateful.

00:11:24.000 That word appears in the killer's text exchanges with his gay trans furry lover.

00:11:30.000 And it appears for a reason.

00:11:32.000 Because the psychological structure that has been set up, and it is inherent in trans ideology is that denial of trans identity is a form of genocidal hatred.

00:11:41.000 And the only proper response to that is murder.

00:11:44.000 The only proper response to that is violence.

00:11:47.000 As I say, this uh there are ideologies like this all over the spectrum.

00:11:51.000 Truly, there are ideologies that rest on the idea that articulation of opposition to this point to a point of view, existence is in fact a threat that must be met with violence.

00:12:03.000 Radical Islam makes the claim that the failures of Muslim countries around the world, that is a result of imperialism and colonialism and can only be fought with violence.

00:12:11.000 And that anybody who argues, for example, that there are pretty major cultural differences between radical Islamic countries and the West is a person who is really just making a false argument as a disguise for power, and power must be met with power.

00:12:26.000 The Marxist position, the free Luigi position, which we'll get to Luigi Manjion in a second, because again, this is very baked into the left.

00:12:34.000 The Marxist position, which is that rich people are in and of themselves a threat to poor people because the way they got rich is by stealing from poor people.

00:12:43.000 And therefore, the very presence of rich people is evidence of their exploitative nature.

00:12:47.000 They are bad people by nature of their bank account and a threat to me.

00:12:51.000 And therefore I get to go do violence to them.

00:12:53.000 It's baked into the ideology.

00:12:56.000 White supremacy, same kind of thing.

00:12:59.000 The idea is that white people are under grave genocidal assault, largely from people of color or Jews who are manipulating the system.

00:13:09.000 And therefore, those people are a threat to me, and I can go do violence, which is why, again, as I've said before, and I will continue to say, when there is an assassination, when there is an act of violence, a shooting that seems to have political implications.

00:13:23.000 We all know immediately what are the spectrum of possibilities available for the shooter.

00:13:28.000 We all know this.

00:13:30.000 I mean, I can speak from personal experiences to the number of death threats I receive, and I know exactly where they're coming from.

00:13:35.000 What are the ideologies that are driving them?

00:13:37.000 We know the ideology that drove the murder of Charlie Kirk.

00:13:41.000 We know what drove this.

00:13:43.000 And this should be a unifying moment for the country to be able to condemn that ideology.

00:13:47.000 It's not enough to say political violence is wrong.

00:13:50.000 And it is a waste of time to debate other ancillary issues.

00:13:55.000 The question is whether you are willing to condemn an ideology that says it is a form of hatred and genocide to say a boy is not a girl.

00:14:02.000 Whether you're part of that ideological superstructure.

00:14:05.000 And the answer is the answer is that there are an awful lot of people, tons and tons of people who are part of that ideological superstructure.

00:14:13.000 Tons of people.

00:14:15.000 Are you coming up?

00:14:16.000 Luigi Mangion just had his terrorism charge removed.

00:14:19.000 This is the permission structure for violence.

00:14:21.000 We'll also get into Cash Patel in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, had some fisticuffs.

00:14:25.000 Senator Corey Booker as well as Senator Adam Schiff will get into all of it first.

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00:16:33.000 I mean, yesterday happened to mark a judge saying that Luigi Mangioni, the murderer of a United Healthcare executive, should not be charged with first degree murder.

00:16:46.000 Well, actually, he was always going to be charged, technically speaking, with second degree murder.

00:16:50.000 I guess in the state of New York, first degree murder is typically only murder of law enforcement.

00:16:54.000 But the question is whether there was going to be another charge of terrorism that was added on.

00:16:57.000 And that was the charge that was dropped.

00:16:59.000 Now, clearly, Luigi Manjione shooting Brian Thompson, the healthcare executive, and leaving a note, talking about how this was designed to effectively terrorize people who are part of the healthcare system.

00:17:12.000 That clearly was an act of terrorism.

00:17:14.000 It was a politically motivated murder with the intent of driving terror into the hearts of people who are part of the capitalist system or part of the healthcare system.

00:17:25.000 Well, the judge in this case, a person named Justice Gregory Caro, put out a statement explaining why the legal definition of terrorism was not met.

00:17:38.000 The judge said, quote, the defendant's apparent's objective, as stated in his writings, was not to threaten, intimidate, or coerce, but rather to draw attention to what he perceived as the greed of the insurance industry.

00:17:52.000 That is a permission structure for violence.

00:17:54.000 That is.

00:17:54.000 That's what that is.

00:17:56.000 Please, I would have what how would you define drawing Attention to what you perceive as the greed of the insurance industry through murder.

00:18:05.000 Definitionally terrorism.

00:18:07.000 It wasn't to threaten, intimidate, or coerce, then why was someone murdered?

00:18:10.000 I noticed that he didn't write an op-ed in the nation about the healthcare system.

00:18:14.000 He murdered a man.

00:18:16.000 And he murdered a man with the intent, yes, to threaten, intimidate, or coerce people who are members of the healthcare industry.

00:18:24.000 If you take this judge's argument and you extend it to literally any terrorist group around the world, it means that there is no such thing as terrorism.

00:18:30.000 That's what it means.

00:18:31.000 It writes the definition out of existence.

00:18:34.000 Now you can say radical Islamic terrorist beheads, a Wall Street Journal reporter.

00:18:40.000 Well, you know, he wasn't really meaning to threaten, intimidate, or coerce others.

00:18:44.000 He was really attempting to draw attention to what he perceived to be Western intolerance.

00:18:50.000 What a bunch of absolute sheer nonsense.

00:18:53.000 9-11 terrorists under this definition would not have been terrorists.

00:18:56.000 Because I mean, obviously, Osama bin Laden was just trying to draw attention to the predations of American foreign policy in Saudi Arabia.

00:19:05.000 Or some such nonsense.

00:19:11.000 They are deeply embedded.

00:19:13.000 They're embedded.

00:19:14.000 It is again largely relegated to the left, but there are some on the right who are willing to do this sort of stuff also.

00:19:22.000 That's just the reality.

00:19:23.000 This is why there were crowds outside of the courthouse.

00:19:28.000 When it was announced that Luigi Manjone would now he won't face life in prison without the possibility without the possibility parole.

00:19:34.000 He won't.

00:19:35.000 He could easily get out while he is still 50 or 60 years old, Luigi Manjion after shooting man in cold blood in the back and then in the back of the head.

00:19:42.000 And here are people celebrating that in New York City on the streets.

00:19:45.000 You want to write Zarm Dani's gonna be mayor?

00:19:47.000 why.

00:19:49.000 Scavengers, demons, that's what this is.

00:20:01.000 That's what this is.

00:20:02.000 And I would like to remind you that there were people on the right who were angry at me when I said that the capture of Luigi Manjone needed to end with the death penalty for Luigi Manion, and that anybody who celebrated the death of Brian Thompson was evil, was doing something evil.

00:20:15.000 There are people on the right who objected to that, who tried to create permission structures.

00:20:19.000 Well, you know, yes, he shouldn't have done that, but you know, there are people there are real grievances, and if you ignore those grievances, there are people on the right who did that stuff too.

00:20:28.000 Again, it was largely relegated to the left.

00:20:30.000 It was much more populous on the left, but there were some horseshoe theory people on the right who were doing that routine.

00:20:35.000 Clearly doing that.

00:20:36.000 I write about it extensively in Lions and Scavengers.

00:20:40.000 I write about that exact case.

00:20:42.000 I use that as a key tipping point case for political violence in the United States.

00:20:49.000 And you can see those permission structures emerging in the in the world's worst ways on social media.

00:20:54.000 Social media has been a bane to our existence.

00:20:57.000 It has.

00:20:57.000 Social media has been a net bad.

00:21:00.000 The algorithms controlled by the Chinese on TikTok are spinning up conspiratorial nonsense, violent ideologies day after day after day.

00:21:12.000 X is a cesspool.

00:21:14.000 Social media has become brain poison, brain rot for people who actually wish to think about things.

00:21:22.000 That is how you end up with an Australian mental health advocate named Lizzie Page saying it's okay to laugh about Charlie Kirk.

00:21:30.000 I mean, it's unspeakable what she says here.

00:21:33.000 I want to reiterate that it is not wrong or unethical or unkind to laugh at the misfortunes of terrible people that Charlie Kirk incited violence.

00:21:44.000 That's what he did.

00:21:45.000 And then that came back to haunt him.

00:21:48.000 That's that was his decision.

00:21:50.000 So it's got nothing to do with the people who are laughing and joking about him becoming a human water fountain.

00:21:56.000 No depths in hell too low for people like this.

00:22:03.000 And yet again, permission structures have been created.

00:22:06.000 you Joy Reed, who used to have a show on MSNBC.

00:22:10.000 Allegedly, I could never verify it because it had no viewers.

00:22:14.000 She spent time praising a songwriter who wrote a song glorifying the murder of Charlie Kirk.

00:22:19.000 Bullets don't discriminate like people do.

00:22:26.000 They don't care about what you claim to leave.

00:22:30.000 And if you think death is just the unfortunate cost of freedom, you will live.

00:22:37.000 surely die in irony cause you once said that empathy is made up that you can't stand it's some new age type of years Probably wouldn't feel a thing if I was gone down.

00:22:55.000 But I am nothing like you.

00:22:59.000 And all I'm saying.

00:22:59.000 There's Joanne Reed sitting there grinning at that.

00:23:01.000 This leaves us for people like me and like you.

00:23:08.000 There's a full blown fire in America and a fascist honor for stuff.

00:23:21.000 Well, I mean, where are the permission structures coming from?

00:23:24.000 Who knows?

00:23:25.000 Who knows?

00:23:26.000 I mean, if you didn't recognize it, those are all quotes taken out of context with regard to Charlie.

00:23:32.000 Because Charlie had talked about the public policy discussions that have to happen around things like gun control.

00:23:40.000 And that did not mean that he was non-sympathetic to the victims of people killed by guns, obviously.

00:23:47.000 If you go back and you read his comments about empathy, he's he makes a point that I've made many times before, which is that empathy and sympathy are two different things.

00:23:53.000 Not even a point made by Charlie.

00:23:54.000 It's made it's a point originally made by Paul Bloom, psychiatrist who wrote an entire book about the problems and dangers of empathy, which is the idea that it's one thing to say, I feel terrible for you, how can I help?

00:24:05.000 It's another thing to put yourself in somebody's shoes to the extent that their priorities become superior to all of other priorities.

00:24:11.000 That makes for bad politics.

00:24:12.000 That's the point that Charlie was making.

00:24:15.000 These permission structures are quite real.

00:24:18.000 And the media are that they're creating a new permission structure now.

00:24:21.000 Because they're trying to find excuses for the shooter.

00:24:27.000 They're trying to find some sort of sympathy for the shooter.

00:24:30.000 And so, believe it or not, I read you the alleged text exchange between the shooter and the and his trans furry lover.

00:24:38.000 And again, I just wish to reiterate here.

00:24:41.000 Charlie Kirk was shot by a man who was gay and was in a relationship with his trans furry lover over Charlie being quote unquote hateful.

00:24:51.000 If somehow you're having a discussion about any other issue today, I wonder at your priorities.

00:24:57.000 I do.

00:24:59.000 Well, here was ABC News covering what they called the touching text messages between the assassin and his gay lover.

00:25:06.000 And by the way, you know that one year from now there will be a movie out on Netflix about the beautiful relationship between the shooter and his gay trans lover and the evils of a Utah society that would not accept their forbidden love.

00:25:21.000 You know that's gonna happen.

00:25:22.000 You know it will.

00:25:23.000 The left can't help themselves.

00:25:26.000 You know that's going to be a thing.

00:25:28.000 Here we go.

00:25:29.000 And then those text messages, and I don't think I've ever experienced a press conference in which we've read text messages that are A, so fulsome, so robust, so apparently, allegedly self-incriminating, and yet, on the other hand, so touching.

00:25:42.000 Right?

00:25:43.000 With the suspect reaching out to his roommate, who is allegedly his boyfriend, who we understand, you know, identified as male at birth, now identifies as female, and the terminology he used.

00:25:57.000 He was trying to protect him.

00:25:58.000 He kept calling him, my love.

00:25:59.000 My reason for doing this is to protect you.

00:26:02.000 Um, you know, but also asking him to delete the messages and not speak to law enforcement.

00:26:07.000 So there's this this heartbreaking duality that we're seeing uh very tragically playing out here.

00:26:13.000 Heartbreaking duality, Starcross lovers.

00:26:16.000 It's it's basically dog day afternoon.

00:26:22.000 No, actually.

00:26:24.000 No, actually.

00:26:26.000 This was a a deranged, evil individual, and his roommate, who sounds equally deranged, doing this.

00:26:34.000 Again, the roommate got all these facts and did not turn this person into the police.

00:26:38.000 The dad, the father turned this person into the police.

00:26:43.000 And and the and the media are covering this as though it's a it's a story of beautiful Romeo and Juliet love that ended with the murder of an innocent 31-year-old father of two.

00:26:57.000 You don't despise many in the legacy media enough, truly.

00:27:00.000 Already coming up, we'll get to more Democrat reaction to all of the revelations about the shooter denial in Chester River in Egypt.

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00:29:24.000 Montel Williams is on with Abby Phillip on CNN last night and Montel did the uh did the same thing.

00:29:30.000 There's a suggestion that actually maybe the real story here is that the MAGA dad is to blame.

00:29:35.000 Because if only the MAGA dad had been, you know, more accepting of his son in a sexual relationship with a gay trans furry.

00:29:45.000 Why would he possibly have objected?

00:29:47.000 Who knows?

00:29:48.000 It must just be biblical intolerance.

00:29:49.000 I mean, oh uh.

00:29:51.000 And that's probably what drove all of this.

00:29:52.000 If only he had just welcomed him home for a barbecue dinner while they all dressed up as dogs and pranced around the yard, then you know that that would have been then all of this could have been stopped.

00:30:01.000 Here we go.

00:30:03.000 I don't believe he was motivated politically.

00:30:05.000 I think this was motivated emotionally.

00:30:07.000 I think this was an emotionally stunted person who literally say it this way, just hear me, tried to defend his significant other, not trying to defend some ideology.

00:30:21.000 Although I do think there, I mean, there's clearly an ideological difference.

00:30:24.000 That's why I played about what they said about the family.

00:30:27.000 I mean, the the ideological difference that he was reacting to wasn't just Charlie Kirk.

00:30:32.000 It was also maybe his dad.

00:30:35.000 I mean, his father was, according to him, MAGA.

00:30:39.000 So that conflict was there, clearly.

00:30:42.000 But this is a young man who's dating a person in transition.

00:30:46.000 And I'm a conservative father, and I question, let's say my daughter brought home the first guy that she bought home.

00:30:52.000 I questioned the guy he bought home.

00:30:54.000 She bought home.

00:30:55.000 Was the dad questioning him politically?

00:30:58.000 Is this a political motivation?

00:31:00.000 Or was this a psychological kind of thing?

00:31:06.000 Was it maybe it was psychological?

00:31:07.000 Maybe it wasn't political.

00:31:08.000 Maybe it wasn't more when it comes to this issue, the political is the psychological, is the personal, obviously for the shooter.

00:31:15.000 Obviously, in front of it's just excuse making.

00:31:18.000 It's just excuse making.

00:31:20.000 That's all.

00:31:23.000 To try and treat with empathy a person who does murder because that person was in some sort of perverse relationship with a gay trans furry, which is what you are talking about here.

00:31:39.000 And it is definitionally a perverse relationship when you are talking about murdering people you disagree with.

00:31:46.000 And also, there are clearly issues of derangement when you are talking about a person who is enmeshed in a culture in which you dress up as animals for sexual pleasure while considering yourself a person of the opposite sex.

00:32:00.000 Something is not normal, can we say that?

00:32:04.000 Or is that just driving more hate?

00:32:06.000 Is that just driving more hate?

00:32:07.000 You know?

00:32:08.000 It's just driving more hate and driving hate, as we have learned from our media and from our political leaders.

00:32:14.000 Our true political leaders, people on the left, we have learned that that hate, that hate is what is what creates the incentive for murder.

00:32:20.000 That's what creates the justification for murder.

00:32:24.000 Well, some on the left continue to claim that um actually we have no idea what the killer was.

00:32:31.000 Jimmy Kimmel tried this routine on Monday night.

00:32:34.000 It did not go amazing.

00:32:37.000 He had some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from.

00:32:51.000 Everything that we can to score political points, then we're trying to claim he wasn't one of us.

00:32:56.000 Well, I mean, he was not, by all available evidence, as soon as the shooting happened.

00:33:02.000 I mean, from the bullets, from the etchings on the bullets.

00:33:08.000 Meanwhile, MSNBC's Brandy's dragony said, Well, you know, when you when you say that people are celebrating, nobody's celebrating.

00:33:13.000 Nobody's celebrating.

00:33:14.000 Well, that's weird, because um, I've played on the show.

00:33:16.000 Many, many people celebrating.

00:33:17.000 Many.

00:33:18.000 And forget about the celebration.

00:33:20.000 I've played mainstream political actors creating permission structures for murder.

00:33:24.000 We've talked about it on the show.

00:33:26.000 Again, I will go back to the New York Times, not once, but twice, treating Hassan Piker as an authority on Charlie Kirk.

00:33:35.000 Hassan Piker who has repeatedly and overtly justified terrorism, celebrated terrorism, called for violence against political opposition.

00:33:45.000 That's the kind of people that I'm talking about.

00:33:47.000 But but apparently it's all in our imagination.

00:33:49.000 It's a figment of our imagination, according to Brandy's and drageny over at MSNBC.

00:33:54.000 If you look across media generally, you have seen a lot of people trying to grapple with Charlie Kirk's legacy and what that is as a right-wing agitator and as a provocateur and as you know, a strategist and the most important GOP figure besides Donald Trump, arguably ever.

00:34:14.000 And so, or right now, and so there's a lot of grappling to do, but to suggest that the internet is cheering for this is just the opposite.

00:34:23.000 Total opposite of what's actually happening.

00:34:25.000 It is well, I mean, if by total opposite, you mean the absolute truth that the internet is cheering for this.

00:34:32.000 A lot of people on the internet were cheering for this.

00:34:34.000 There is just no question about that.

00:34:36.000 It is just the reality.

00:34:37.000 In the same way that there are brainworms on the internet that are spending their days marinating in conspiracy theories, even though, again, all the evidence is clear in this case, and we know who the person is and what they thought.

00:34:55.000 And it's an it's again, it it is an enormous number of people on the left.

00:34:58.000 Heather Cox Richardson, who is apparently the single most popular individual author over on Substack, wrote over the weekend the alleged shooter was not someone on the left.

00:35:07.000 The alleged killer is Tyler Robinson, is a young white man from a Republican gun enthusiast family who appears to have embraced the far right, disliking Kirk for being insufficiently radical.

00:35:16.000 Rather than grappling with reality, right-wing figures are using Kirk's murder to prop up their fictional world.

00:35:21.000 Briefly, they claimed Robinson had been radicalized in college.

00:35:23.000 Then when it turned out he'd spent only a single semester at a liberal arts college, MAGA pivoted to attack those who allegedly had celebrates death on social media.

00:35:30.000 But there was literally no evidence presented that he actually was of the right.

00:35:36.000 None.

00:35:37.000 None.

00:35:38.000 And believe me, there were plenty of people on the far right who hated Charlie.

00:35:42.000 I mean, the Groipers, as I've said before, literally declared a Gruper war on Charlie Kirk.

00:35:48.000 They declared that he wasn't sufficiently radical.

00:35:50.000 It's exactly what I told Bill Maher on Friday night.

00:35:52.000 He said, Well, what how do we know it's not the Gripers?

00:35:54.000 I said, theoretically, could it be?

00:35:55.000 Because before all of the evidence had come out, theoretically, it's possible, super unlikely.

00:36:00.000 And you know what I cited as the evidence.

00:36:02.000 The contemporaneous conversations that the shooter had with family calling Charlie Kirk hateful, because my point was if you're calling Charlie hateful, that is part of a left-wing matrix of thinking.

00:36:13.000 The griper matrix is Charlie wasn't hateful enough.

00:36:15.000 He should have been more hateful.

00:36:16.000 He should be more vile toward the Jews.

00:36:18.000 If only he had been, then they would have liked him.

00:36:22.000 The excuse making is ridiculous.

00:36:24.000 Ridiculous.

00:36:25.000 Already coming up, Cash Mattel of the FBI.

00:36:27.000 He has a bunch of tete tats with Democratic senators.

00:36:29.000 It gets spicy.

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00:38:41.000 Well, yesterday, FBI's Kash Patel, he was testifying before Congress and he said that there are a lot of people actually under investigation with regard to Charlie's shooting because there was apparently an online discord group that was mobilized around the shooter, had interactions with the shooter, as you mentioned on the show yesterday.

00:39:02.000 Many of the comments talked about the possibility of Charlie being assassinated on September 10th, which of course was the date that he was assassinated, but weeks in advance.

00:39:08.000 Here's Cash Patel explaining.

00:39:11.000 Unfortunately, it has been leaked that there was a uh a Discord chat, and for those unfamiliar with it, it's a gaming chat room online that the suspect participated in.

00:39:23.000 So what we're doing, we've already done is serve legal process, not just on Discord, so that the information we gathered is sustained and held in an evidentary posture that we could use in prosecution should it be decided to do so.

00:39:37.000 And we're also going to be investigating anyone and everyone involved in that Discord chat.

00:39:42.000 Okay, very good.

00:39:43.000 I see the public reports that the Discord thread had as many as 20 additional users.

00:39:47.000 It sounds like you're you're trying to run down all of that to see if that's accurate.

00:39:51.000 Who else may have been on that thread, what they may have known.

00:39:54.000 Is that fair to say?

00:39:55.000 It's a lot more than that, and we're running them all down.

00:39:57.000 It's a lot more than 20.

00:39:58.000 Yes, sir.

00:39:59.000 And you're running all of that together.

00:40:00.000 Every single one.

00:40:03.000 Well, of course, that is necessary because these networks of people incentivize one another, for sure.

00:40:09.000 And meanwhile, we have new information about the 71-year-old man who was initially arrested after Charlie's shooting.

00:40:15.000 You remember the tape?

00:40:17.000 Older man balding, uh, and and he's wrestled to the ground.

00:40:21.000 What exactly was he doing?

00:40:22.000 Well, apparently, when he wasn't being arrested for possession of child pornography, which is another thing that happened to him this week.

00:40:27.000 Apparently, he was led away from the shooting scene in handcuffs, according To Breitbart about an hour after the shooting, and that led many to believe he was the shooter, but he was instead charged with obstruction of justice.

00:40:37.000 Because apparently, police documents say that he allegedly screamed, I shot him, now shoot me.

00:40:42.000 And then when no officer shot him, Zinn again yelled, I shot him, now shoot me.

00:40:46.000 Then he explained he did this to draw attention from the real shooter, presumably, so that the shooter could escape.

00:40:52.000 Apparently, Zinn has a long history of showing up and disrupting or being arrested at events ranging from political speeches to the Sundance Film Festival and other protests.

00:41:03.000 Well, yesterday in that Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that included Cash Patel, which we'll get to more of that in a moment, an FBI investigation was uncovered.

00:41:13.000 Apparently, it was launched in the wake of the 2020 election and it scrutinized nearly a hundred Republican and GOP-aligned groups, or people including Turning Point USA, according to unclassified bureau files released on Tuesday.

00:41:24.000 Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley published those files related to the probe.

00:41:27.000 It was codenamed Arctic Frost during a panel hearing, saying that the records revealed that Arctic Frost was much broader than just an electoral matter, and the investigation expanded to Republican organizations.

00:41:38.000 According to Grassley, some examples of the group that Ray that Christopher Ray's FBI sought to place under political investigation included the RNC, Republican Attorneys General Association, and Trump political groups.

00:41:49.000 And on that political list was one of Charlie Kirk's group's turning point USA.

00:41:53.000 So Arctic Frost wasn't just about politically investigating President Trump.

00:41:57.000 It was also a way to improperly investigate the entire Republican political apparatus.

00:42:02.000 Apparently, Arctic Frost kicked off in April 2022 and focused on at least 92 Republican-linked entities like TP USA.

00:42:12.000 The investigation pursued lines of inquiry about purportedly false election fraud claims, fake elector schemes, frivolous lawsuits, financial fraud, and pressure on state officials to flip vote counts in President Trump's favor.

00:42:24.000 It was unclear exactly what the basis of the inquiry was into TPUSA.

00:42:30.000 But again, there is no justification that I can see here for why that was opened into TP USA other than political animus.

00:42:37.000 That's the point that Senator Grassley was making.

00:42:39.000 Now, meanwhile, the Trump administration is looking at what it can do in the future to crack down on political violence like Charlie's assassination.

00:42:49.000 Marco Rubio is picking one pretty easy avenue.

00:42:53.000 He is saying, listen, if you celebrate Charlie's assassination, we don't want you here.

00:42:56.000 So if you're trying to come into the country, you have a bunch of memes on your phone celebrating Charlie's murder.

00:43:00.000 Well, guess what?

00:43:02.000 You don't get to be an American and you don't get to be on our soil, which is totally appropriate.

00:43:06.000 The great sin with Mahmoud Khalil was not the attempt to deport him.

00:43:10.000 The great sin with Mahmoud Khalil is that he was led into the country in the first place, given his history of terrorist support.

00:43:16.000 So if we can stop that before it starts, why wouldn't we?

00:43:18.000 Here's the secretary of state.

00:43:19.000 You're a foreigner and you're out there celebrating the assassination of someone who was speaking I mean, we don't want to.

00:43:28.000 Why would we want to give a visa to someone who thinks it's good that someone was murdered in the public square?

00:43:34.000 It's just common sense to me.

00:43:36.000 And have you actually revoked any pieces yet?

00:43:39.000 Have you taken that action and the other thing?

00:43:40.000 Well, we were both cases of people.

00:43:41.000 I don't know who revoked being the people that are in the country.

00:43:44.000 Well, certainly but denying these.

00:43:46.000 I mean, think about it.

00:43:47.000 I want everybody to think about this for a moment.

00:43:48.000 Okay, you're out there celebrating the assassination in cold flood of someone.

00:43:55.000 And didn't you want to come in?

00:43:56.000 Why would we want anybody like that in our country as a terrorist as anything?

00:43:59.000 We don't want them here.

00:44:02.000 That happens to be like an easy solve for importing new crazies into the United States, new evil people into the United States.

00:44:09.000 But what would we do about the organizations that are already here?

00:44:11.000 So the Trump administration, according to the Wall Street Journal, is moving swiftly to galvanize the outpouring of support for slain conservative activist Charlie Kirk into political momentum.

00:44:19.000 As President Trump's advisors, weigh a slate of executive actions targeting liberal organizations.

00:44:23.000 Among the actions being discussed by the president's team, reviewing the tax exempt status of left-leaning nonprofit groups and targeting them with anti-corruption laws, according to administration officials.

00:44:32.000 The president could begin rolling out the actions as soon as this week.

00:44:35.000 Officials across the administration are working to identify groups suspected of targeting conservatives or causes conservatives' support.

00:44:42.000 That could include looking at attacks on Tesla showrooms earlier this year, as well as people who have retaliated against law enforcement carrying out Trump's deportation campaign, adding the perpetrators could be categorized as domestic terrorists.

00:44:54.000 So, again, this is not the administration saying that if you disagree with Charlie Kirk or disagree with Turning Point or disagree with President Trump, then now you're going to be arrested or your 501c3 status is going to go away.

00:45:04.000 That is not what this is.

00:45:05.000 This isn't the Tea Party scandal during the Obama administration.

00:45:08.000 This is saying that if there are people who are violent and those people are funded by groups, then those groups ought to be looked at in terms of tax exempt status and well as well as anti-corruption laws.

00:45:20.000 So we'll have to see what can be uncovered evidentiarily.

00:45:23.000 Obviously, we want to be very careful when it comes to the application of law here.

00:45:28.000 Want to make sure that you're actually going after people who are lawbreakers, not just people who are engaging what Pam Bondy called hate speech the other day, and a gigantic boo-boo by the attorney general, suggesting that hate speech would be prosecuted in the United States.

00:45:39.000 Not only is that unconstitutional, it happens to be a left-wing talking point.

00:45:43.000 Because of course, everyone has a definition of what hate speech constitutes.

00:45:47.000 If the left were in charge, they would have characterized everything that Charlie was saying as hate speech, and then presumably sought to remove the nonprofit status of Turning Point USA.

00:45:56.000 President Trump said on Monday that he might target George Soros and others under the RICO Act, right?

00:46:03.000 That'd be the Racketeer Influencing Corrupt Organization Act.

00:46:06.000 And he said he would consider designating the movement known as Antifa as a domestic terror organization, which should.

00:46:12.000 Now the Open Society Foundation's claim that they don't fund or support violent protests, we will find out.

00:46:17.000 There should certainly be full investigations, because these people are getting their money from somewhere.

00:46:22.000 But again, the biggest thing here is to be as meticulous as possible in pursuit of the policy.

00:46:27.000 This is something my friend Chris Rufo has talked about.

00:46:30.000 It is not enough to have the proper principles when it comes to going after the bad guys.

00:46:34.000 You actually have to meticulously apply political and legal pressures in the right way, constitutional ways that don't violate core constitutional principles.

00:46:44.000 Now, with that said, the attempt by the left to somehow suggest that you have a right in the United States to remain employed while saying terrible things about Charlie Kirk's murder.

00:46:52.000 No, your employer has a right to fire you if you if if you say things that your employer doesn't like.

00:46:57.000 The question of cancel culture has always been about whether the employer is right to do so on a case-by-case basis.

00:47:03.000 If you woke up this morning and you decide to tweet out all black people should be killed, your employer has no obligation to continue employing you.

00:47:11.000 None.

00:47:11.000 If you woke up this morning and you said, men are not women, well, it seems to me that it would be cancel culture to be fired for that.

00:47:19.000 Because that is not only well within the overton window, as they say, the range of acceptable discourse, it is a mainstream normie political point of view.

00:47:29.000 So again, treating celebration of Charlie Cook's murder as a sort of action that that meets with no social consequence.

00:47:40.000 Here's the thing.

00:47:42.000 Social consequences can be good.

00:47:45.000 Social consequences can be useful if applied correctly.

00:47:49.000 If applied wrongly, they're wrong.

00:47:52.000 But social consequences are very often the thing that people have to face in lieu of facing legal consequences.

00:47:58.000 We don't want the government prosecuting speech.

00:48:00.000 We do, however, want a space in the United States where we have conversations with people of opposing political points of view without celebrating their demise.

00:48:10.000 And if you celebrate somebody's demise publicly, celebrate it, cheer it, justify it.

00:48:15.000 Well, then if you get fired from your job, that ain't cancel culture.

00:48:19.000 That is just called normalcy.

00:48:22.000 This is why the kind of full libertarian view when it comes to this sort of stuff, that no one should ever meet with consequences social or otherwise for their speech is just a form of moral relativism.

00:48:32.000 Not every, not every piece of speech is created equal, not every ideology is created equal, not every culture is created equal.

00:48:38.000 Some speech is better than other speech.

00:48:40.000 Some things that are said are better than like the fact that we even have to make this argument shows how insane everything is and how the very depixelated version of every argument becomes the one that sticks in everybody's mind.

00:48:50.000 The cancel culture argument originally did not argue that there should never be social consequences for any speech at all.

00:48:57.000 That at least was never the argument I was making.

00:48:59.000 The argument I was making is that the Overton window had been shut so tightly by the left that perfectly legitimate speech was being treated as taboo and therefore punishable.

00:49:08.000 But I never made the argument that if you're out there saying that slavery is good and we should go back to it, that you shouldn't meet with no social censure.

00:49:16.000 That of course would be silly and morally relativistic.

00:49:20.000 Okay, meanwhile, Cash Patel had a fraud hearing with the Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday.

00:49:26.000 He went at it with Corey Booker, Corey Booker went after Cash Patel, and Cash Patel was having none of it.

00:49:32.000 Cory Booker put on those angry odds.

00:49:34.000 Just Popped those in.

00:49:35.000 Mr. Potato Head over there.

00:49:36.000 And decided to go at it with Cash Patel.

00:49:38.000 It didn't go amazingly for the Senator from New Jersey.

00:49:42.000 I don't think you're fit to him in the bureau.

00:49:44.000 But here's the thing, Mr. Patel.

00:49:47.000 I think you're not going to be around long.

00:49:49.000 I think this might be your last oversight hearing.

00:49:51.000 Because as much as you supplicate yourself to the will of Donald Trump and not the Constitution of the United States of America, Donald Trump has shown us in his first term and in this term, he is not loyal to people like you.

00:50:04.000 He will cut you loose.

00:50:06.000 This may be the last time I have a hearing with you because I don't think you're long for your job.

00:50:12.000 But I'm going to tell you this.

00:50:13.000 I pray for you.

00:50:15.000 I pray for you that you can step up and defend your oath, defend the Constitution, and do a much better job of defending this country.

00:50:24.000 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:50:25.000 Do you want to say that rant of false information does not bring this country together?

00:50:37.000 If you want to work on bringing this country, it's my time, not yours.

00:50:40.000 My God.

00:50:41.000 My God.

00:50:44.000 It is.

00:50:44.000 I follow you on your social media posts that are country apart to address your falsehoods.

00:50:50.000 Oh, you're not going to be able to do that.

00:50:52.000 You verify all the time.

00:50:56.000 For what time is it?

00:50:58.000 Sir, you're a time.

00:51:00.000 Sir, you don't tell me my time is over.

00:51:02.000 The people of New Jersey tell me what my time is.

00:51:05.000 You can't lecture me.

00:51:07.000 You may be the charge.

00:51:08.000 I'm not going to end it.

00:51:09.000 But I am not afraid of you.

00:51:11.000 Mr. Chairman.

00:51:12.000 I'm not afraid of you.

00:51:14.000 I'm not afraid of you, angry eyes.

00:51:17.000 Woo-hoo-hoo.

00:51:18.000 Man, maybe if he does some Angraz, those poll numbers will spike all the way from 2% to 3% in those in those Democratic primary polls.

00:51:25.000 Corey Booker.

00:51:28.000 Meanwhile, speaking of frauds, Senator Adam Schiff, who is somehow able to bootstrap his way into ascendancy by lying for many, many years about the president of the United States and his relationship with Russia that didn't exist.

00:51:41.000 Well, he he decided to go after Cash Patel, also Cash Patel was having none of it.

00:51:47.000 You want the American people to believe that?

00:51:50.000 Do you think they're stupid?

00:51:52.000 No.

00:51:52.000 I think the American people believe the truth that I'm not in the weeds on the everyday movements of inmates.

00:51:58.000 What I am doing is protecting this country, providing historic reforms and combating the weaponization of intelligence by the likes of you.

00:52:08.000 And we have countlessly proven you to be a liar in Russia gate in January 6th.

00:52:14.000 You are the biggest fraud to ever sit in the United States Senate.

00:52:20.000 And an utter coward.

00:52:21.000 I'm not surprised.

00:52:23.000 I'm not surprised.

00:52:27.000 And put on a show so you can go raise money for your charade.

00:52:32.000 You are a political buffoon at best.

00:52:34.000 Well, you can take an Natropolis.

00:52:37.000 Take it to the bank that the FBI is protecting this country and the state and citizens of the California.

00:52:43.000 Well, listen to the case.

00:52:47.000 But all you care about is a child sex predator that was prosecuted by a prior administration and the Obama Justice Department and the Biden Justice Department did squat.

00:52:58.000 And what did President Trump do?

00:52:59.000 Bring new charges courageously.

00:53:02.000 And what have we done?

00:53:03.000 You said I'm the most transparent FBI director in history.

00:53:06.000 33,000 pages of information to you.

00:53:09.000 I challenge you to say anything credibly to the truth.

00:53:13.000 Go ahead and run to the cameras where you want to go next.

00:53:17.000 Well, Cash Patel's not wrong there.

00:53:19.000 Can I make recommendation?

00:53:20.000 Just in all honesty, can I make a recommendation?

00:53:23.000 Stop the televised hearings.

00:53:25.000 Seriously.

00:53:26.000 They are just grandstanding nonsense.

00:53:28.000 Nothing gets done in them.

00:53:29.000 No information is uncovered in them.

00:53:30.000 And I I speak as somebody who has been the social media beneficiary of televised hearings.

00:53:35.000 Because it always turns into fireworks.

00:53:37.000 And it's basically a show for the cameras.

00:53:39.000 Nothing gets done here is a waste of taxpayer money.

00:53:41.000 Seriously.

00:53:42.000 Because all Adam Schiff is doing and Corey Booker is doing and all the rest, all they are doing is grandstanding for the cameras.

00:53:48.000 It is not about actually eliciting new information.

00:53:51.000 It is not about investigating.

00:53:53.000 It is just about what you can do to get your donors back home to think that you're doing the things that they want you to do.

00:53:59.000 That's all it's a waste of time.

00:54:00.000 well, Cash Patel did make one other comment.

00:54:02.000 This one set off the right.

00:54:05.000 So cash, of course, is not somebody who I think you can say, in all fairness, would be complicit in a gigantic rape cover-up by Jeffrey Epstein.

00:54:15.000 And Cash Patel is about as right wing as it's possible to get, about as anti-establishment as it is possible to get.

00:54:23.000 And so if Cash Patel says that there is no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein was trafficking girls to others, then I believe him.

00:54:31.000 Perhaps that makes me credulous, perhaps.

00:54:34.000 And we and if so, and if evidence changes, then I'll be happy to revise my estimate and suggest that Cash Patel was engaging in a cover-up with regard to Jeffrey Epstein.

00:54:43.000 However, so far as I am aware, the only allegations ever made that were not then retracted, that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked women to other men was made by Virginia Jufrey.

00:54:56.000 Virginia Jewry was such a non-credible witness that prosecutors refused to use her as a witness against Jeffrey Epstein in his criminal case.

00:55:04.000 And so basically, what has been going on with the Epstein case, and I've said this from the beginning was that I was perfectly open to any explanation for his behavior for the allegations.

00:55:14.000 I'm still open to explanations as to how he got all his money.

00:55:18.000 But I am not willing to call Cash Patel or Dan Pongino or the president of the United States or the rest of the administration liars because social media decided to expand the net of the actual credible evidence.

00:55:33.000 So here is Cash Patel yesterday saying the thing you're not supposed to say, which is that there's no evidence that Epstein trafficked to other men, that he was charged for sex trafficking because he was trafficking women to himself, and so is Ghlaine.

00:55:45.000 You've seen most of the files.

00:55:48.000 Who, if anyone, did Epstein traffic these young women to besides himself?

00:55:55.000 Himself.

00:55:56.000 There is no credible information.

00:55:58.000 None.

00:55:59.000 If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals.

00:56:04.000 And the information we have again is limited.

00:56:06.000 So the answer is no one.

00:56:08.000 For the information that we have.

00:56:11.000 In the files.

00:56:12.000 In the case file.

00:56:13.000 Okay.

00:56:17.000 Well, this set off Firestorm Online.

00:56:20.000 How dare Cash Patel say this?

00:56:21.000 Now he's a cuck.

00:56:22.000 All the rest of this sort of stuff.

00:56:24.000 I am weary.

00:56:26.000 Honest to God, I am weary of all the conspiracism.

00:56:29.000 I'm weary of it.

00:56:30.000 You want to provide evidence?

00:56:31.000 Go ahead and provide evidence.

00:56:33.000 You want to call Cash Patel a liar, then have the balls to just call him a liar.

00:56:36.000 Or call President Trump a liar.

00:56:38.000 You want to do that?

00:56:39.000 Go ahead and do it.

00:56:40.000 But I'm I'm beyond, beyond exhausted by all of the insane conspiracism that eats up X particularly every single day.

00:56:51.000 It is wearying, it is exhausting, and it makes you stupid.

00:56:54.000 It makes you stupid and credulous.

00:56:55.000 And you will believe anything because you quote unquote believe nothing.

00:56:59.000 Evidence should be the actual thing that you are asking for.

00:57:05.000 And if you're not, you ain't just asking questions.

00:57:08.000 You're just providing an argument without having to provide evidence.

00:57:13.000 Meanwhile, the Fed is expected to cut rates today.

00:57:18.000 This afternoon, Chair Jerome Powell is expected to announce at least one quarter point cut.

00:57:24.000 Traders are betting, according to the Wall Street Journal, on two more quarter point cuts in both October and December.

00:57:29.000 The feeling is that the market is softening, that inflation is at least relatively under control.

00:57:36.000 It's pacing at about 2.5%, which again is too high.

00:57:39.000 It's supposed to be 2%.

00:57:40.000 In my opinion, it should be 0%.

00:57:41.000 I think that inflation eats up savings.

00:57:43.000 And I understand the argument that inflation causes people to spend, but I've always thought that it's a benighted idea that saving is somehow less preferential, less less good for the economy than spending.

00:57:56.000 That what we really need is a consumption-based economy.

00:57:58.000 Savings generally tends to lead to investment by banks, for example, in the form of loans.

00:58:04.000 In any case, the president's going to get what he wants.

00:58:07.000 He's going to get a rate cut.

00:58:08.000 He'll probably get a couple more rate cuts before the year is out.

00:58:10.000 Is that enough to jog the economy?

00:58:12.000 It certainly could be.

00:58:15.000 What I really think is going to happen is it's going to keep inflating the upper end of the bubble.

00:58:19.000 I think that all the tech companies are going to continue to have massive amounts of money pour into their stock coffers because of the expansion of the Monetary supply into the economy through the lowering of the interest rates.

00:58:36.000 If people believe they can get a 5% return on their investment and they can borrow from banks at 2.5% or 3%, then they're going to do it.

00:58:44.000 Now, we're not at those interest rates yet.

00:58:46.000 I couldn't remember what the actual Fed funds rate is, so I asked our sponsors over a comet, a project of perplexity.

00:58:51.000 What is the current Fed funds rate?

00:58:52.000 How high are the average 30-year fixed mortgage rates right now?

00:58:55.000 According to Perplexity, the current federal funds rate is 4.25% to 4.5%.

00:59:00.000 The market's widely expected to cut to the 4.00% to 4.25% range at today's Federal Reserve meeting.

00:59:07.000 The average rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage right now nationally is about 6.24% to 6.3%, which is still a lot higher than it was, you know, 10 years ago.

00:59:15.000 But it's going down.

00:59:16.000 It will likely go down more by the end of the year.

00:59:19.000 Meanwhile, while all this is going on, you know, all the policies of the Trump administration are geared toward at least getting innovation going again.

00:59:26.000 We'll see whether that happens.

00:59:28.000 Again, enormous amounts of money are waiting on the sidelines, don't know where to go, or are just pouring into AI.

00:59:32.000 The president said something I thought was quite strange yesterday.

00:59:34.000 He was asked about the Pope's statement that Elon Musk's trillionaire status somehow threatens global order and peace.

00:59:43.000 Listen, I've met the current Pope.

00:59:46.000 He seems like a truly kind-hearted person.

00:59:50.000 That does not mean that his understanding of economics is well informed.

00:59:55.000 Income and wealth inequality is not, in fact, the problem.

00:59:59.000 Poverty is the problem.

01:00:00.000 And the basic and general idea that wealth inequality is in and of itself a generator of poverty is a lie.

01:00:05.000 It is untrue.

01:00:07.000 There are plenty of countries where everyone has an equal amount of wealth because they own nothing.

01:00:12.000 That happens all the time.

01:00:13.000 Elon's wealth, by the way, has been largely distributed to shareholders who own shares in Tesla.

01:00:20.000 And the beneficiaries have been the public, which is able to buy Tesla cars.

01:00:25.000 But you know, the the the our politics is a politics that is rife with populism at the moment.

01:00:30.000 I am not a populist.

01:00:32.000 I think the populism is more an approach than it is an actual political program.

01:00:36.000 And it seems to me that populism is largely based on the idea of the many against the few.

01:00:41.000 That's basically the definition.

01:00:42.000 That's the definition.

01:00:43.000 The many against the few.

01:00:44.000 Now, there are certain cases in which there is an elite that controls an important institution that it ought not control.

01:00:50.000 But when the idea is that the economy is controlled by an elite that is rigging it for its own benefit, unless you can cite evidence as to who those elites are, rigging it to its own benefit.

01:01:00.000 And there are cases where it happens, for sure.

01:01:02.000 That's why I don't like crony capitalism.

01:01:04.000 So I don't like self-dealing.

01:01:06.000 So I don't like regulating yourself.

01:01:07.000 There's a lot of things I don't like about the current way the American economy runs.

01:01:11.000 The idea that Elon Musk being very, very wealthy is innately a threat to you is wrong and problematic.

01:01:18.000 But here was the president yesterday.

01:01:19.000 The interview criticized the fact that some CEOs make hundreds of times more in salary than average workers.

01:01:30.000 Keep worried about polarization.

01:01:32.000 Do you share that concern?

01:01:34.000 Well, I do say there's a big gap.

01:01:37.000 Don't forget, I'm a popularist.

01:01:40.000 There is a big gap.

01:01:43.000 Okay, well, I mean, that, okay.

01:01:45.000 Let's just be clear.

01:01:46.000 You could redistribute the salary of the top CEOs in the country to the people that work at their companies, it would amount to a marginal increase in their income, every year, like a very, very marginal increase.

01:02:00.000 And the reality is Tyler Callan has written extensively about the supposed gap at the top end of the income spectrum for people who manage large companies.

01:02:08.000 And the reality is that actually it is largely untrue.

01:02:14.000 As Tyler Callan has written, quote, there's another lesson from the number.

01:02:17.000 CEOs are paid less than the value they bring to their companies.

01:02:20.000 More concretely, CEOs capture only about 68 to 73% of the value they bring to their firms.

01:02:27.000 He says, quote, I find the most convincing estimate of the gap between pay and marginal product to be that of Lucy and Taylor at the Wharton School of Business.

01:02:34.000 He finds that the typical major CEO captures somewhere between 44% and 68% of the value he or she brings to the firm, with the additional qualification that the CEO's contract offers some insurance value.

01:02:44.000 That is, in bad times for the firm, the pay of the CEO won't be cut in proportion, but the CEO shares to a lesser degree on the upside.

01:02:51.000 You won't find credible estimates suggesting that major CEOs taken as a group are capturing more than 100% of their added value.

01:02:57.000 And the way that you can tell this is CEO gets hired, does the value of the company go up or go down?

01:03:03.000 So again, this seems to me the politics of envy.

01:03:08.000 It seems to me populism very often when it comes to economics is the politics of the scavenger.

01:03:12.000 It's all about just oh my gosh, that CEO earns too much.

01:03:16.000 It must be his fault that people are earning less.

01:03:17.000 Factually untrue.

01:03:19.000 That's not how economics works.

01:03:21.000 In just a moment, we'll get to a big win for the Trump administration with regard to TikTok, a win that I'm quite hopeful actually could change the nature of political debate, which would be deeply necessary at this poisoned and cursed point in time.

01:03:35.000 We'll get to that in just a moment.

01:03:37.000 Listen to that.

01:03:38.000 However, you do have to be a member.

01:03:40.000 The show continues momentarily.

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The Ben Shapiro Show - September 17, 2025

BREAKING: TEXT EXCHANGES Between Kirk Killer, Trans Lover

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