The Ben Shapiro Show


Dave Portnoy | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 113


Summary

Dave Portnoy is the founder and president of Barstool Sports, a digital brand and news site for all things sports and pop culture. Dave is Chief of all content, but his candid, emergency press conferences, his very public opinions on past employees, and his unpredictable business moves make him a fascinating character for the job. And unlike anybody else, Dave is willing to take a risk to get his point across. Today's guest is Ben Shapiro, host of The Ben Shapiro Show on CBS Radio and host of the Daily News with Ben Shapiro. This show is sponsored by ExpressVPN. It s time to stand up to big tech. Protect your data at ExpressVpn.com. The only way to get access to that part of the conversation is to become a member of Dailywire, where you ll have access to all of the full conversations with everyone. Head on over to Dailywire.com/TheBenShapiroShow and join the conversation by becoming a member! Ben Shapiro is a writer, comedian, podcaster, and podcaster. His work can be found in The New York Times, The Huffington Post, NPR, and many other publications. His latest novel Other Words For Smoke is out now on Amazon Prime, and wherever else you get your media choices are available. You can also get a copy of his work, including his book, "Mr. Shapiro's newest novel, Mr. Shapiro is also available on Audible, or you can listen to him on the podcast, and watch his podcast on the podcast on Vimeo, wherever else he s listening to Mr. Sells His Work? Thank you, Ben Shapiro's book is also is and more than $5, and you can find him on or says so much of his on , and much more, and more, out on his other stuff like that is a good thing, he s b_ , and so much more. Thank you for listening to this podcast is a great thing, and he really is great, really really is that really helps me out here, really really has it is that's not much of it he really does it so much it really is it really does that is that that he s really he does it, really is that s it's that really is that he's that he's really really it s that really is, really needs to be it, right ...


Transcript

00:00:00.000 I'll talk to anybody.
00:00:00.000 If you have a problem with me, I'll talk to you anytime, anyplace, anywhere.
00:00:04.000 You can bring a hundred people and I'll debate you by myself.
00:00:08.000 Now, are there jokes I've made that I wish I didn't and are perceived differently now?
00:00:12.000 Of course, but I've been doing this for 20 years.
00:00:15.000 Some, maybe I wish I didn't do that, but I know my character and our intent has always been to make people laugh.
00:00:21.000 Period.
00:00:23.000 Dave Portnoy, founder, president, or rather, El Presidente, as he calls himself, of Barstool Sports, the digital brand and news site for all things sports and pop culture, brought to you by The Common Fan, for The Common Fan.
00:00:35.000 Dave is chief of all content, but his candid, emergency press conferences, his very public opinions on past employees, and his unpredictable business moves make him a fascinating character for the job, and unlike anybody else.
00:00:45.000 Scrappy beginnings built a following around Barstool, not online, but actually in good old-fashioned print, which included Dave himself driving all around Boston delivering the publication.
00:00:54.000 That was back in 2003.
00:00:56.000 Dave's approach, aside from the sheer power of will, was appealing to sports fans in ways that major publications and networks simply weren't, making Barstool a mainstay in the market.
00:01:04.000 Fast forward nearly 20 years, and Barstool is on the bleeding edge of digital content.
00:01:08.000 They boast over 50 podcasts, with several top performers on podcast charts.
00:01:12.000 Last time I checked, Barstool's Caller Daddy was number one on Apple Podcasts.
00:01:15.000 One of their newest achievements is the Barstool Sportsbook mobile app, creating an easy-to-use sports gambling experience in the palm of your hand.
00:01:21.000 We'll discuss what the process has been like getting mobile sports gambling available countrywide over the last year.
00:01:26.000 We'll also discuss how Dave's pizza reviews became a thing, his fundraising of $37 million to save small business, the story behind interviewing President Trump, and a whole lot more.
00:01:35.000 Hey, hey, and welcome to the Daily News.
00:01:46.000 This is the Ben Shapiro Show Sundays special.
00:01:48.000 This show is sponsored by ExpressVPN.
00:01:50.000 It's time to stand up to big tech.
00:01:51.000 Protect your data at expressvpn.com.
00:01:54.000 Just a reminder, we'll be doing some bonus questions at the end with Dave.
00:01:57.000 The only way to get access to that part of the conversation is to become a member.
00:02:00.000 Head on over to dailywire.com, become a member, you'll have access to all of the full conversations with everyone.
00:02:05.000 of our awesome guest, Dave Portnoy.
00:02:06.000 Thanks so much for stopping by.
00:02:08.000 Thanks for having me.
00:02:08.000 All right, so let's start with your business philosophy, since I think that you're one of the more unique guys in business today.
00:02:14.000 You have this big crossover audience.
00:02:16.000 A lot of conservatives love you, a lot of people on the left love you, but it seems like your business philosophy is generally I don't give a crap, but you run this incredibly successful business.
00:02:24.000 So what exactly is your business philosophy?
00:02:27.000 If I had to narrow it down into a quick sentence, probably follow my gut.
00:02:32.000 That's what I've been doing since I started it, and it's worked so far.
00:02:35.000 So I hear a lot of times people like, what are you doing this for?
00:02:37.000 Why are you doing that?
00:02:38.000 We just follow our gut.
00:02:39.000 It's sometimes right, sometimes not.
00:02:42.000 But there isn't some grand business plan or philosophy that, you know, we're following.
00:02:47.000 We're quick to pivot when we think something, you know, needs to be changed or follow new trends.
00:02:52.000 But we just follow our guts.
00:02:53.000 That's really simple.
00:02:55.000 But that's kind of what it is.
00:02:56.000 I mean, that does take a fair bit of stones to be able to do that, because you've been in a bunch of situations, pretty obviously very focused on situations in which you've had to pivot super quickly, whether it is with you know, call me daddy, or whether it is with a particular business strategy or a controversy.
00:03:11.000 So what is the is that just you just wake up that morning like I'm making a call and we're doing it?
00:03:14.000 Yeah, I mean, things may be not as instantaneous as that.
00:03:20.000 But once we decide to do something, we really do it.
00:03:23.000 And it doesn't always work.
00:03:24.000 And obviously, you have to know when something's not working and probably, all right, maybe this isn't the right avenue, the right path or whatever it is.
00:03:31.000 But it's just believing in yourself.
00:03:33.000 And I also grow.
00:03:34.000 That's my personality.
00:03:36.000 Even to start a business like this, you kind of have to be a risk taker.
00:03:39.000 and willing to put yourself out there.
00:03:41.000 And then over the years, you know, Barstool's been wildly successful.
00:03:46.000 You know, I didn't start it to get it where it is.
00:03:48.000 Like, I just wanted to do my own thing.
00:03:50.000 And then at some point, when you have enough success and people are chirping you in or being like, don't do this, don't do that.
00:03:56.000 It's like, what does this person know from the cheap seats?
00:03:59.000 I'm the one who got us here, so I'm going to continue just to follow what I think is the right thing to do.
00:04:03.000 So for folks who don't know the Barstool story, how did this company get started in the first place?
00:04:08.000 Because I had been aware of it for a while, but it was around a long time before I was aware of it, actually.
00:04:13.000 I would say it's gained a lot of its popularity in what, the last seven to ten years, maybe?
00:04:16.000 Yeah, we go through cycles.
00:04:18.000 So we've been around, I think, 17 years now.
00:04:20.000 It started as a newspaper.
00:04:21.000 It was a sports gambling and fantasy sports newspaper that I would hand out outside subway stations in Boston.
00:04:28.000 And again, I never even, at the time, I never thought we would be online or anything like that.
00:04:33.000 So it isn't like this is what I thought the company would be.
00:04:37.000 But it was a four-page gambling rag and it slowly morphed over the years from More gambling and fantasy to more men's lifestyle, and now I would say it's you know both We have a lot of female content as well, but it's looking at life.
00:04:50.000 Not too seriously.
00:04:51.000 That's the goal From both a male and female perspective, okay So how did you decide that you were going to?
00:04:57.000 Start just doing a newspaper that you printed out and then handed out at subway stations in Boston So I I want to start a business so I always knew I didn't want to work for somebody else I had a sales job out of college, and I had I don't know three Possible, I guess, business ideas that I came up with.
00:05:14.000 One was this sports gambling newspaper.
00:05:17.000 The other one was a scouting company for high school athletes who were getting recruited and maybe aren't Division I athletes, but looking for a place to play and a software that could connect scouts.
00:05:26.000 And the third was used furniture.
00:05:28.000 As crazy as that sounds, I was always like, hey, college kids throw all their furniture away.
00:05:33.000 Maybe if I had a huge warehouse, drive around, get the furniture for free.
00:05:36.000 And this is like a different era.
00:05:37.000 The internet was just kind of getting going.
00:05:39.000 So let people buy this furniture that I'm getting for free online.
00:05:43.000 So it was always a business perspective.
00:05:45.000 It's just like, which one did I think was most realistic and easiest to get started?
00:05:49.000 And for whatever reason, I landed on Barstool.
00:05:52.000 That is hysterical, because I do remember being in law school and having the exact same idea.
00:05:55.000 Because every year, at the end of the year, you'd see these people taking furniture and just tossing it directly out on the curb.
00:06:00.000 That's free stuff, right?
00:06:00.000 Free stuff.
00:06:01.000 Warehouse it.
00:06:02.000 Let people buy it online.
00:06:04.000 You have something.
00:06:04.000 So yeah, what I graduated was kind of the dot-com boom.
00:06:09.000 The economy was going great, and ideas like that were coming out everywhere.
00:06:13.000 So those are the things I looked at.
00:06:15.000 Okay, and then you take this newspaper, and how does it morph online and become bigger?
00:06:20.000 So I used to hand out the newspaper outside subway stations, wake up like, I don't know, 4 a.m., hand it out, go back, work, do sales, I was doing it all.
00:06:30.000 One day I handed it to a guy at South Station, Boston Financial District, and this is probably, we started in 2004, this may be 2007, and he was moving to New York City.
00:06:39.000 He's like, I love this newspaper.
00:06:42.000 If I move to New York, I want to be able to read it.
00:06:44.000 So if I build you a website, will you put the newspaper on the website?
00:06:48.000 If you want to do it for free, knock yourself out.
00:06:50.000 This guy, his name was Ian White, ended up being the CTO for Business Insider.
00:06:54.000 I got super lucky.
00:06:55.000 So he built the website.
00:06:57.000 I started putting articles and things.
00:06:59.000 Like, very quickly, that became obvious that would be the future of the business.
00:07:03.000 I could scale it a lot faster.
00:07:05.000 It was growing a lot faster.
00:07:07.000 And that's where, you know, the internet side of what we did came from.
00:07:10.000 But at that point, if you said we're a blog, people would have looked at you like 10 heads.
00:07:14.000 They'd be like, what is a blog?
00:07:15.000 Never heard of it.
00:07:16.000 So in a second, I want to ask you about the sports side of the business and kind of your passion personally about sports.
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00:08:35.000 All right, so let's talk about your interest in sports.
00:08:37.000 So two of the three businesses you mentioned off the top were both sports oriented.
00:08:40.000 One was a scouting business and the other was what eventually became known as Barstool.
00:08:44.000 So what was your interest in sports going all the way back?
00:08:46.000 I mean, you're from New England.
00:08:48.000 So, I mean, I was a diehard everything Boston sports fan, played my whole life.
00:08:48.000 Right.
00:08:52.000 I lived in Nara growing up in Boston.
00:08:54.000 Like, Dan Shaughnessy's a local sports writer, and they, and WEI was the local radio station, and they had a hammerlock, I mean a hammerlock, on how sports fans got their information.
00:09:05.000 And to be honest, like a Dan Shaughnessy hates the Red Sox.
00:09:08.000 He covers them, he hates them.
00:09:09.000 Ron Board just covered the Patriots, he hates them.
00:09:12.000 So everything was lecturing, and a lot of fans didn't like it.
00:09:16.000 I was a huge Bill Simmons fan, and he kind of modernized, or changed, The way the game worked, like, and the internet allowed him to have a voice.
00:09:25.000 But, like, the Boston Globe didn't hire Bill Simmons.
00:09:28.000 Like, nope, not right.
00:09:29.000 Shows you how crazy they are.
00:09:30.000 So, there was this opening, there was this window, basically, for a different type of voice to reach sports fans, and I thought maybe we could fill it with Barstool Sports.
00:09:41.000 That's a really interesting take because I hadn't really thought about the fact that there has always been this sort of gap between how many in the elite culture want to cover sports and what the fan actually wants to see from sports.
00:09:50.000 I remember reading Simmons in the early days and reading his blog.
00:09:53.000 And forget politics, he's a terrific writer and a really talented guy.
00:09:56.000 And the way he covered the Celtics, I'm a Celtics fan too, growing up in LA.
00:09:59.000 And the way he covered the Celtics, I was like, this is the way I want to hear people talk about sports.
00:10:03.000 He was revolutionary in that regard.
00:10:05.000 I still think the best, probably, pure writer when he was on his own.
00:10:09.000 He was on, I think, Digital City Boston and just letting it, you know, fly.
00:10:14.000 Oh, yeah.
00:10:14.000 And it was excellent.
00:10:16.000 We tried to get him involved in early Barstool, got nowhere with it, but it did.
00:10:21.000 There was an appetite for it.
00:10:23.000 When the established guard, whether it be EI or the Boston Globe, was so arrogant, almost in the way that they covered sports, they just, they weren't open to new ideas.
00:10:33.000 Eventually, you know, people like myself started eating them because they just didn't, they didn't pay attention to it.
00:10:38.000 I wonder if you feel like that gap is still there, because it feels like as Barstool grows and as alternative sports media grows, there's still this sort of ESPN out there that really is, you know, covering sports in a much more almost staid way.
00:10:51.000 You have to stay between these lines.
00:10:52.000 You're not allowed to talk about sports.
00:10:54.000 A fan would talk about sports.
00:10:55.000 You have to cover sports.
00:10:56.000 A journalist would cover sports.
00:10:57.000 And you get that also with regard to, you know, Sports Illustrated, which I subscribed to from the time I was a kid.
00:11:02.000 And then when I was in my mid-20s, I canceled it because I said, I'm not even reading about sports anymore.
00:11:06.000 I'm just reading about the kind of political takes of the particular sports writers.
00:11:09.000 I kind of want to just read about the sports.
00:11:11.000 Yeah, that's certainly been a huge issue lately, obviously.
00:11:16.000 You know, ESPN, I think, is trying to.
00:11:17.000 They go back and forth.
00:11:18.000 They're wavering on where they land, and it is a delicate dance that they're trying to do.
00:11:23.000 But there's more outlets like us.
00:11:25.000 Like, there's no doubt.
00:11:27.000 Our success has been because of the fact that the other companies were so stringent and didn't want to change.
00:11:34.000 But I think in a lot of ways, Barstool has forced some change with that because we've been able to capture such a huge market share.
00:11:41.000 But yeah, I'd agree with the overall premise.
00:11:43.000 People don't always want politics and sports together.
00:11:46.000 Yes, I was going to ask you a little bit more about that.
00:11:48.000 So obviously we've seen that the sports have gotten overtly political in a way that they weren't when I was a kid.
00:11:53.000 Sports figures who were political.
00:11:55.000 I mean, I remember Charles Barkley posing in slave garb on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
00:11:58.000 I remember Michael Jordan in the 90s saying, Republicans wear sneakers, too.
00:12:01.000 So there was always like a touch of, sure, athletes will talk politics.
00:12:04.000 But it never entered sort of the field of play until the last 10 years when you had people doing hands up, don't shoot, running onto a football field, or you had Kaepernick kneeling on the sidelines, whether you like it or you don't like it, or whether you have on in the NBA actual labeling of the sidelines or labeling of the jerseys.
00:12:19.000 It seems like politics, which started off as political, you know, Athletes are just like everybody else.
00:12:24.000 They can say what they want to say on politics.
00:12:25.000 They move from that to, no, we as leagues are overtly going to now push forward a certain number of agenda items.
00:12:32.000 And if you don't like those agenda items, then I guess the sport isn't for you.
00:12:35.000 I mean, it feels actively alienating to a lot of folks.
00:12:37.000 Yeah.
00:12:38.000 You know, my view on that, I don't, I have no problem at a point with politics being involved in sports because at some level, It's like, where do you draw the line?
00:12:51.000 Because you can look at, like, what was it?
00:12:52.000 The Berlin Olympics?
00:12:53.000 Where, you know, they put the hand up.
00:12:55.000 Like, that's great.
00:12:56.000 Like, that's Hitler.
00:12:57.000 So, they're making a statement that I agree with.
00:13:00.000 So, where is the line?
00:13:03.000 Now, the leagues, how I view the leagues, I don't think the leagues are looking at it as we're doing what we morally think is right.
00:13:11.000 I've never thought that.
00:13:12.000 They're doing it as, how can we make the most money, appease our fan base, or do whatever.
00:13:18.000 Like Goodell, who's been back and forth, who I don't care for.
00:13:20.000 There's not, there's nobody on earth who can convince me he makes any decision based on, you know, this is morally the right thing to do.
00:13:30.000 You can agree morally whether something is right or protest is right, but I just don't buy that with the leagues.
00:13:35.000 They're doing it on what they think is best for their bottom line.
00:13:38.000 And that, you know, they'll find out in the end, I guess, whether that was right or wrong.
00:13:42.000 I may as well ask you now.
00:13:43.000 What's the story with you and Goodell, obviously?
00:13:45.000 Oh, I hate him.
00:13:47.000 So, the Goodell story goes back.
00:13:51.000 I'm from Boston.
00:13:52.000 I'm a Patriot fan, diehard Patriot fan, diehard Tom Brady fan.
00:13:57.000 So, Deflategate, in which he was accused of cheating and deflating footballs, which they never proved or came close to proving.
00:14:04.000 We defended Tom, and we defended him at every step, and I had more information, I feel like Goodell had.
00:14:10.000 But when they suspended him for four games, we went and protested, and myself and three other Patriot fans who worked for me, handcuffed ourselves to each other at NFL headquarters and demanded to sit with Roger.
00:14:22.000 He did say he'd speak with the media at any point.
00:14:25.000 We got arrested, spent a night in jail for that.
00:14:28.000 That began what I would say is one of our true rivalries.
00:14:33.000 And now, if Roger Goodell had any self-awareness, he could have poked light at this and made a joke out of this.
00:14:39.000 But he didn't.
00:14:40.000 And it continued to escalate and continued to escalate.
00:14:43.000 I got dragged out of the Super Bowl.
00:14:46.000 It was Patriots-Rams Super Bowl.
00:14:48.000 I bought tickets.
00:14:49.000 And at halftime, they literally had about 10 security guards drag me out in handcuffs because they banned me from the Super Bowl.
00:14:57.000 It just continued.
00:14:58.000 For example, during COVID, they had a charity event, and they're like, hey, whoever bids the most will get to watch a game with Roger Goodell in his basement.
00:15:07.000 So I spent $250,000, I won the auction, and they nullified that.
00:15:12.000 So, I mean, it's just been one event after another with him.
00:15:16.000 We're banned from all NFL events, and we have a great relationship with the Patriots as well.
00:15:20.000 We sell this picture with his face, a clown, which actually, Trump stole from me.
00:15:27.000 It's like the clown knows.
00:15:27.000 They sell it.
00:15:29.000 So we had 70,000 towels the first time that Roger Goodell showed up at Gillette Stadium.
00:15:35.000 The entire stadium's holding them.
00:15:38.000 It's just been an ongoing rivalry that started with the Flakegate.
00:15:43.000 That's awesome.
00:15:44.000 So, Belichick or Brady?
00:15:45.000 Who's responsible for the success?
00:15:46.000 Damn, what a question.
00:15:47.000 Obviously, Brady just won the Super Bowl, so it's given him an advantage.
00:15:53.000 I don't think you can pick one or the other.
00:15:55.000 I think they're both the best to ever do it.
00:15:57.000 I've said and I maintain, if I could only have one I would take the coach.
00:16:02.000 I think head football coach in the NFL is the most important position anywhere.
00:16:08.000 Brady went to a great situation.
00:16:10.000 Like, I think if Belichick coached that team with that talent, they win every game.
00:16:14.000 So, they're both the best, but...
00:16:17.000 Gone to head I would take Belichick before Brady.
00:16:19.000 I think it's probably like 70-30 or 65-35 at this point.
00:16:21.000 What's the split in terms of the audience, in terms of male, female?
00:16:23.000 Like how does it break up?
00:16:24.000 I think it's probably like 70-30 or 65-35 at this point, male.
00:16:29.000 So do you think that's just because of the content or also just because of the attitude?
00:16:32.000 Because obviously you're just like a let it fly kind of dude and the site reflects that.
00:16:36.000 Yeah, well, I mean, it started as a men's site.
00:16:39.000 We were talking about it.
00:16:40.000 The idea behind Barstool Sports, the name of it was what guys would talk about a bar watching sports.
00:16:47.000 So that was entertainment, girls, sports, you name it.
00:16:49.000 So it was a bunch of guys doing it.
00:16:51.000 Now, We hired a girl early and actually had a sister site called Stoola La.
00:16:56.000 So we had Barstool Sports, Stoola La.
00:16:58.000 The problem with Stoola La was the girl we hired became a superstar.
00:17:04.000 She was like the first really YouTube internet sensation.
00:17:08.000 Her name is Jenna Marbles.
00:17:09.000 She has like a statue in Madame Tussauds.
00:17:11.000 Like that is how big she became and we couldn't find somebody good enough to replace her.
00:17:16.000 But that's why it started primarily as, you know, men.
00:17:19.000 There are a lot of conservatives who worry that there's an attempt to sort of water down what men ought to be or what men ought to do in our society.
00:17:27.000 There's an attempt to censor men, that men are sort of being told that they need to sit down and shut up in their interests, take a back seat, that there's a sort of generalized feminization of society.
00:17:34.000 What do you make of the critique?
00:17:35.000 I think that is true, but with all critiques like that, They're almost social media echo chambers to me.
00:17:43.000 Like, that is 100% true.
00:17:46.000 And one of the things with me that I always find fascinating is, if you ask most people off the street, like, what is Dave politically, they're going to be like, he's very conservative.
00:17:55.000 That's not true.
00:17:55.000 People listen to, like, what I actually say.
00:17:58.000 But that sentiment of what you said, people view Barstool and they just put me in a bucket.
00:18:04.000 Now, we've done events.
00:18:06.000 That we used to do these like raves, for lack of better words, and we have DJs, we have girls scantily dressed, they're wearing like booty shorts, and we have protesters come and scream at these girls.
00:18:17.000 Girls.
00:18:18.000 Feminists.
00:18:18.000 Girls who identify themselves as feminists, being like, you shouldn't go to that, they're sexist, they're this, that.
00:18:23.000 And then we'd have these same girls who say, you know what?
00:18:27.000 You're sexist because you're telling me how to think and what I can laugh at and what I can enjoy.
00:18:31.000 As a woman, I have the right to make that decision.
00:18:33.000 So, there is that element, but I think the majority, like, and I've said this many times, I hate both extremes.
00:18:40.000 I really do.
00:18:41.000 I hate the extreme left.
00:18:42.000 I hate the extreme right.
00:18:43.000 They should be thrown on a battlefield and let them just, like, kill each other to death.
00:18:46.000 Because I do, what Charles Barkley said the other day on TV, he's like, I think the majority of people get along.
00:18:53.000 I believe that.
00:18:54.000 I truly believe that.
00:18:55.000 You have these extremes.
00:18:56.000 But I do agree with what you're saying.
00:18:58.000 The watered down, the culture.
00:19:00.000 I firmly believe, and people have said this, I have no problem with saying a girl is hot or pretty or sexy.
00:19:06.000 To me, that, you know what?
00:19:08.000 That's Adam and Eve type stuff like that is something so I don't have a problem with that.
00:19:12.000 That doesn't mean that I don't think that person I just said that could be brilliant and the smartest person in the room but physical attributes and things like that you shouldn't just because you say something's pretty that to me isn't Objectifying somebody, that's kind of like science.
00:19:27.000 So in a second, I want to ask you about the kind of wave of cancellations that hits the culture, because this goes to, if you say perfectly obvious things, sometimes you do have to be worried that advertisers will pull.
00:19:36.000 100%.
00:19:36.000 Or stuff like that.
00:19:37.000 So I want to ask you about that in one second.
00:19:38.000 First, it's pretty obvious when I don't get a good night's rest.
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00:20:54.000 So let's talk about the fact that if you say anything that is remotely edgy these days, there's this deep worry that you're going to get canceled, that people online are going to come after you, and then they'll come after your advertisers.
00:21:05.000 Now, as it happens to us on the show all the time, people are constantly beating us up.
00:21:09.000 I trend approximately once every three weeks, I think, as much as the algorithm will allow me to trend on Twitter.
00:21:15.000 But at the same time, the real fear is that eventually these folks will mobilize against advertisers, against paying customers.
00:21:22.000 And then it'll kill your business.
00:21:24.000 How do you navigate that minefield?
00:21:25.000 It's really hard.
00:21:27.000 You know, I'm proud that I don't think Parcel has ever really been beholden to which way the wind is blowing, the political climate.
00:21:34.000 If you have a real fan base, which we do and we've cultivated over almost two decades, it allows you to withstand that.
00:21:44.000 Because I know, and I've known this for a long time, if I went to our readers, who have been a lot of them for a long time, said, listen, we either have to cater to what the advertisers want, or we have to be us.
00:21:56.000 But you may have to pay more, and we may have to come up, maybe buy a t-shirt, pay a model.
00:22:00.000 I know what our crowd would say.
00:22:01.000 So it does not bother me that way, because our audience is real, and we just stay true to ourselves.
00:22:07.000 The second you let advertisers So one of the things that you've been doing is you're out there really helping out small businesses in a way that nobody else is, and that's been an initiative since COVID.
00:22:26.000 So what gave you the idea that you were just going to step into the breach and you were going to just help out these small businesses that have been destroyed by COVID?
00:22:33.000 It was towards, I think it was around December when I started this and basically New York City shut down indoor dining again.
00:22:41.000 And, you know, as somebody who started a business and can certainly identify with how much work it, I mean, Barstool was my work's life.
00:22:48.000 I spent 10 years before we made any money.
00:22:50.000 I just couldn't imagine not having that decision.
00:22:53.000 So, as I'm prone to do, I went on a rant and put it on Instagram.
00:22:57.000 And then somebody challenged me, like, hey, Big Mouth, instead of just talking about it, why don't you do something about it?
00:23:02.000 And that was the initiative.
00:23:03.000 I was like, all right.
00:23:04.000 We like to control when we do charity, which we've done a lot of, because I don't necessarily trust everybody that the money is getting directly to who it needs.
00:23:12.000 So we came up with the Barstool Fund.
00:23:14.000 I put $500,000 of my own money in, solicited donations from people I know who may be wealthy, whatever, Tom Brady's of the world, Aaron Rodgers, whoever I may have been lucky enough to form relationships.
00:23:25.000 And to our readers said, hey, we're doing this.
00:23:28.000 If you guys have money to donate, any amount helps.
00:23:31.000 And then we simultaneously said, if you're a business, and you just need to bridge this gap, because for a lot of the restaurants and bars, it was all small business, but a lot of the restaurant industry, they just needed warm weather.
00:23:41.000 They need to be able to open outside and get things going.
00:23:44.000 Solicit, send in a reason what you need and we'll try to help as many people as we can.
00:23:50.000 So I think we raised about $40 million and have helped countless businesses.
00:23:55.000 We started doing FaceTime videos by accident, basically the first company we helped.
00:24:00.000 The girl, Liz Gonzalez, who helps go through the emails and submissions, she's like, this person specifically said they're a huge fan of you, Dave.
00:24:07.000 Just surprise them with a call.
00:24:08.000 So I did.
00:24:09.000 And when we gave them the money, their reaction was so overwhelming that I knew we had to capture it moving forward because that would drive the donations.
00:24:17.000 And then it just kind of took off.
00:24:20.000 You know, it was one of those things, it's so obvious that small business was dying because of COVID and that nothing was being done to help them.
00:24:29.000 It was just common sense.
00:24:30.000 But once you actually see the people and just it's everyday like Americans and how much it meant to get, it could be $10,000.
00:24:39.000 Like that's what they need just to get over the hump.
00:24:42.000 It, that's what drove it.
00:24:44.000 And in a weird way, there's so much crap that was going on in the country and has been for a little bit.
00:24:50.000 This was something that everybody should have been behind no matter what, because it's just, it didn't matter if you were a Democrat, Republican, if it was a small business owner.
00:25:00.000 We're just helping you get through this thing.
00:25:02.000 So it was finally, I think, something that had a positive message.
00:25:05.000 And even though a lot of people don't like me, even the people who didn't like me got quiet for a little bit because they'd wait to come out.
00:25:10.000 How do you argue with that exactly?
00:25:12.000 Yeah, right.
00:25:13.000 I mean, you personally helped out one of my favorite kosher restaurants in Chicago, and I saw that online, and I was like, that's awesome.
00:25:19.000 Yeah, Kenny Zeiner over there.
00:25:19.000 The deli.
00:25:21.000 Excellent, excellent Italian beef.
00:25:23.000 I mean, it was cool to see, and I know, again, you couldn't find a single person who was anti it.
00:25:29.000 It did speak to, I think, Some broader trends with the treatment of small business in the country.
00:25:34.000 I mean, you started a business out of nothing.
00:25:36.000 We started a business out of nothing.
00:25:38.000 And it seemed like for a lot of people who were stumping in favor of we need to shut everything down and we need to keep it shut down forever.
00:25:43.000 There are people now who are saying we need to keep everything shut down forever.
00:25:47.000 But they just don't understand how small businesses operate or what it means to actually put your life's work into a small business.
00:25:51.000 So then it's like, OK, well, you lost your business.
00:25:53.000 You just go start a business next year.
00:25:54.000 It's like, well, that's not how businesses work.
00:25:57.000 And I said in my rant, and I do believe this, obviously it's easier said than done, but if you told me after 10 years COVID is going to hit and I lose what I built, I would have been like, I'm going to risk my life trying to save this.
00:25:57.000 Correct.
00:26:11.000 To me, this is, I don't want to go work for somebody else.
00:26:14.000 I can't really start over.
00:26:15.000 Like you said, it's not that easy.
00:26:17.000 This is my life's work.
00:26:18.000 I've poured everything into it.
00:26:20.000 I want the chance to save it.
00:26:22.000 And I said that from the beginning with COVID and I, you know, as it developed or whatnot, it's not taking anything away from how serious it is or isn't.
00:26:31.000 But I couldn't stand not letting a business owner decide how they want to handle their future.
00:26:37.000 And frankly, in like a restaurant...
00:26:39.000 I know COVID's there.
00:26:40.000 If I want to go into the restaurant, that's up to me.
00:26:43.000 That's how I felt about it.
00:26:44.000 But I just, to not give these people, let them control their own destiny after some of these businesses we helped were around for 40 years, grandfathers, it was insane to me and remains insane to me.
00:26:57.000 Well, unless you want to give them money, which we weren't doing.
00:27:00.000 It, you know, they weren't, nothing was being done.
00:27:02.000 So that combo, I just never understood.
00:27:04.000 100%.
00:27:04.000 So what you're talking about in terms of personal autonomy, you can see why conservatives might be a pawn.
00:27:09.000 100%.
00:27:10.000 I mean, this is a very conservative idea that basically, listen, you get to make your own choices in life.
00:27:13.000 You want to go into that restaurant and risk COVID because you feel like eating there?
00:27:16.000 Go ahead.
00:27:17.000 That's a you thing.
00:27:18.000 And if you want to keep your business running, then go for it.
00:27:22.000 So there is no doubt that there's things that I'll say that will be conservative.
00:27:29.000 Well, I'm super socially liberal.
00:27:32.000 So, like, anything on the social aspect of it, I'm generally in favor.
00:27:36.000 Like, you know, gay marriage and things like that.
00:27:39.000 All for it.
00:27:40.000 Let people, if it doesn't affect me, do whatever you want.
00:27:43.000 I am a libertarian.
00:27:44.000 That's exactly what I am.
00:27:45.000 Yeah, socially liberal, financially conservative.
00:27:48.000 So that's where I land.
00:27:49.000 Yeah, join the club, man.
00:27:51.000 Well, to be honest, that's what I'm saying.
00:27:53.000 I think normal people are like, that's how I look at it.
00:27:56.000 Our libertarians, there's a lot more commonalities.
00:28:00.000 And even like an issue which I don't like to wade into, like Black Lives Matter, for example.
00:28:05.000 I think there's a ton of credibility to how African Americans are treated in this country.
00:28:09.000 You look at the Capitol, I think if those were all black people who were rushing to the Capitol, they would have gotten shot.
00:28:14.000 Like, I believe that in my heart.
00:28:16.000 So there's racism here.
00:28:17.000 Now, do I think BLM?
00:28:20.000 Got taken advantage of, there's issues like, well, think we're going a little too far with it?
00:28:24.000 Yeah.
00:28:24.000 So nothing's as, like, black and white, no pun intended there, as it seems.
00:28:28.000 So, unfortunately, I think a lot gets politicized and, you know, things that we should be getting along on, we end up not.
00:28:36.000 But there's no doubt libertarian, if I identified, would be what it is.
00:28:39.000 So one aspect of that libertarianism is obviously you have an app now that's a sports gambling app.
00:28:44.000 Yep.
00:28:45.000 And it's getting approved what, state by state?
00:28:46.000 How does this process actually work?
00:28:48.000 So yeah, sports gambling exactly like weed, marijuana.
00:28:52.000 It used to be illegal everywhere except Vegas and they overturned whatever statute that was and said this is now a state issue.
00:28:59.000 So each state decides whether they want to allow it and how it will be handled and things of that nature.
00:29:06.000 It's getting passed quickly because the states need money because of COVID and all that.
00:29:10.000 So we are involved in this, and as somebody who grew up loving gambling, it's like my dream thing to be involved in.
00:29:16.000 So currently, if you went, we have the Barstool Sportsbook.
00:29:20.000 It's legal in Michigan, it's legal in Illinois, and it's legal in Pennsylvania, and soon probably like eight more states.
00:29:26.000 Okay, so you have all this stuff going on, and then you've got the entire podcast sphere, so run through how all these podcasts get bolted on, because how'd you get up in the podcast space?
00:29:35.000 So podcast is one of the things I missed on my brain.
00:29:38.000 We had a guy, Kevin Clancy, who was doing it years ago.
00:29:40.000 He was like, ooh, podcasting.
00:29:41.000 I was like, I don't know how you're gonna make money doing that, but good luck.
00:29:44.000 And then slowly, that became successful, and we started adding more podcasts.
00:29:48.000 We have the biggest sports podcast, Part of My Take, which is gigantic.
00:29:52.000 We have the biggest hockey podcast.
00:29:57.000 Okay, so now I have to ask you to walk me through the Call Her Daddy controversy because obviously that one blew up the world.
00:30:12.000 We'll get to that in just one second.
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00:31:27.000 All righty, so the Call Her Daddy controversy.
00:31:29.000 Walk me through that, because that obviously blew up the internet.
00:31:31.000 Yeah, so there were two girls we hired together, and they were no names.
00:31:35.000 They had no followings.
00:31:36.000 They had nothing.
00:31:38.000 And they just started this podcast called Call Her Daddy.
00:31:41.000 I knew who Alex Cooper was, one of the hosts, and I saw her sizzle reel basically.
00:31:46.000 It was like, oh, this is, I haven't seen anything quite like this.
00:31:49.000 Met her, and I basically was like, who made this for you?
00:31:52.000 She's like, I did.
00:31:53.000 It's like, what do you mean?
00:31:54.000 It was super slick.
00:31:55.000 She's, and I'm like, you did the editing?
00:31:57.000 You did all of it?
00:31:58.000 She's like, yeah, I taught myself and did all that.
00:32:00.000 Once she said that, I was like, okay, we wanna bring this over because this isn't just some, you know, idiot doing it.
00:32:06.000 It's somebody who has a plan and what she wants to do.
00:32:09.000 And the thing just blew up.
00:32:11.000 She made us hire her friend, basically, who did it with her, who was at, I think, Merrill Lynch or a finance company.
00:32:16.000 And the thing went enormously big.
00:32:18.000 Now, we hired them each for three-year contracts and paid them each, I think, $70,000.
00:32:25.000 It got so big, we renegotiated, gave them a new deal, and within a year they're each making about half a million.
00:32:31.000 They could have been making a ton more if they did this independently.
00:32:36.000 Would anybody have known what it is?
00:32:38.000 Who knows?
00:32:39.000 I look at it like a talent, like a sports contract.
00:32:42.000 Like, if we sign a rookie, or somebody who's, nobody knows who they are, and they hit 100 home runs at the all-star break, and you're playing for the Red Sox, you can't be like, guess what?
00:32:50.000 I'm gonna go play for the Yankees now.
00:32:51.000 You gotta wait until your contract's over.
00:32:54.000 They didn't necessarily feel that way, and they started a plan and hatch a plan to basically break the contract with us.
00:33:00.000 Go do their own thing.
00:33:01.000 There was this guy from HBO who was involved, who was the boyfriend of Not Alex, the other guy.
00:33:07.000 And it turned into a big, he said, she said.
00:33:11.000 It was they were telling their side, I was telling mine.
00:33:14.000 And eventually, the two of them, I offered them a sweetheart deal.
00:33:17.000 It was in the middle of COVID, and we needed them to work because they sell a ton of merch, make a lot of money for the company, and I didn't want to lay anybody off.
00:33:24.000 They got a deal that they could only be offered during COVID times.
00:33:27.000 They could keep the IP, which we owned, And I shortened their contract.
00:33:32.000 They couldn't agree on signing that, which is insane.
00:33:35.000 Alex wanted to sign it.
00:33:37.000 Sophia did not.
00:33:38.000 We cut a deal with Alex.
00:33:40.000 Sophia went her own way.
00:33:42.000 And that's where it is now.
00:33:43.000 Alex has been wildly successful.
00:33:46.000 But it made big news because it was so popular.
00:33:49.000 And I also hijacked the podcast.
00:33:52.000 So they stopped doing their work.
00:33:55.000 They weren't putting it out.
00:33:56.000 And I had enough.
00:33:57.000 And finally, I just went on their feed.
00:34:00.000 And I said, hey, this is Dave Portnoy.
00:34:02.000 A lot of their fans are like, who the heck is this guy?
00:34:04.000 And I just said exactly what was happening.
00:34:07.000 Now, my crowd and people who know me, for better or for worse, I'm very blunt and honest.
00:34:13.000 Like, if people who don't like me, they'll never be like, oh, he lied or he's dishonest.
00:34:17.000 They'll just be like, he's a jerk and he's too blunt.
00:34:19.000 So when I say something, people know I'm generally telling the truth.
00:34:23.000 That worked in that case as well.
00:34:25.000 So it's that kind of stuff where I asked you before, is it like you just make a split-second decision, you're like, you know what, I'm just taking over the podcast feed today, or?
00:34:32.000 It was a long time coming.
00:34:33.000 I mean, this controversy was months.
00:34:35.000 And it just got to the point, something has to be done, and I make the decision, and I do it.
00:34:41.000 So I want to ask you about the, you know, there was this recent controversy where there's a sex tape with you that was released.
00:34:48.000 Third one.
00:34:49.000 Third one, right.
00:34:49.000 So I feel like, and the stock price took a hit.
00:34:52.000 So first of all, I have to say you're a very confident person that you've made this many sex tapes.
00:34:57.000 It's something that I enjoy doing.
00:34:59.000 I'm much more careful.
00:35:00.000 They're all very old, so I never dreamed, like, hey, people are going to want to watch me have sex.
00:35:05.000 That was just not something that crossed my mind.
00:35:07.000 So is it just like, one day I'll break this up for the grandkids, or what was the... No, we do it for... It's like, you know, I spice it up in the bedroom a little bit, but it was meant for just the girl and I and nobody else.
00:35:19.000 Uh, obviously that's changed.
00:35:21.000 So, um, but yes, anyways, anyway, so the question was the, the stock price took a hit because of that.
00:35:29.000 And why?
00:35:29.000 Right.
00:35:31.000 I mean, again, as you said, this was the third sex tape that came out.
00:35:34.000 It's not like anybody gives a damn.
00:35:36.000 Yeah.
00:35:36.000 Who knows?
00:35:37.000 I don't know why that the only thing I think is maybe people are super smart on wall street, which I don't necessarily I think that's always the case, but they're like, oh, this could cause a buying opportunity, like people are going to see it, it'll go down, we'll rebuy when it goes down.
00:35:49.000 But other than that, I don't know.
00:35:51.000 It's, you know, it's two consensual adults.
00:35:54.000 Having sex, and as far as I know, unless you have evidence to the contrary, we wouldn't be here if people weren't having sex.
00:36:00.000 So it's not like everybody has sex, or else we wouldn't be here.
00:36:03.000 So who cares?
00:36:05.000 That's also the Dave Bourne, I don't give a crap about much.
00:36:09.000 I very much, and the girl didn't either.
00:36:12.000 I would care very much if the girl cared.
00:36:14.000 That's the only thing I care about.
00:36:16.000 Because whoever releases this on the internet, and we haven't been able to find, I'd like to make an example out of that person, so it stops.
00:36:24.000 They don't think of the, not about me, they're trying to get at me, but they don't think of the repercussions of the other person who's a nobody, and that can severely hurt somebody, a female, if she's like, oh my god, I don't want to be seen like this.
00:36:39.000 So that is the part that whoever releases this really doesn't think about at all.
00:36:44.000 You mentioned a second ago the dudes on Wall Street, and what did you make of the whole GameStop Robin Hood situation?
00:36:51.000 Because you're pretty vocal about that.
00:36:52.000 I am.
00:36:54.000 I was stunned by it.
00:36:55.000 I lost $700,000 on GameStop, or not GameStop, on AMC, but it was the same.
00:37:00.000 They stopped the trading.
00:37:02.000 I didn't even know you could do that.
00:37:04.000 I literally didn't know you could just say, hey, you can sell the stock, but you can't buy it.
00:37:10.000 They essentially tanked the stock price.
00:37:14.000 And nobody will ever convince me if the shoe was on the other foot and, you know, the hedge funds and the billionaires were making a ton of money in a volatile nature, that it would be stopped.
00:37:27.000 To be like, oh, you guys are making too much.
00:37:29.000 The little guy's getting killed.
00:37:31.000 But that's what happened here.
00:37:32.000 And do I think there are phone calls made and things behind closed doors?
00:37:37.000 And if you've seen the show Billions, Steve Cohen even is Tied into these companies.
00:37:43.000 I think there was shady stuff that went on and I think the little guy got screwed for the most part to save billionaires.
00:37:48.000 I mean, short squeeze has been going on for a very, very long time.
00:37:48.000 Correct.
00:37:50.000 This is essentially just a publicly created short squeeze against people who they thought were over leveraged in the market.
00:37:57.000 It is pretty amazing that they shut it down.
00:37:59.000 I interviewed Vlaad.
00:38:01.000 He came on.
00:38:01.000 I think he sees, and that's the CEO of Robinhood, I think he sees me as a conduit to their retail traders and they're trying to go public and all this.
00:38:09.000 So, as a way to build trust back up, he's like, let me talk to Dave.
00:38:12.000 And I'm no expert on a lot of the things he was talking about.
00:38:17.000 I at first thought he was a criminal.
00:38:19.000 I've changed to be he was inadequately prepared and borderline incompetent because it was bubbling.
00:38:28.000 Like what was going on with GameStop and AMC?
00:38:31.000 It wasn't something that just you snapped and it happened.
00:38:34.000 It was over the course of a couple days.
00:38:36.000 So to not be ready for it?
00:38:39.000 That to me is incompetence.
00:38:41.000 But he brought up a fair point.
00:38:42.000 It's like, if we folded, it would have been worse for our clients.
00:38:47.000 Right, there came a point where they were losing money on every single trade because they'd actually over-leveraged themselves in order to fulfill the contract.
00:38:52.000 Correct.
00:38:53.000 But I still, no one will ever convince me, if the rich guys are benefiting, nobody calls a timeout and says, hold on, we've got to make sure.
00:39:04.000 That I don't believe.
00:39:05.000 So along the same lines, you're a Bitcoin guy, not a Bitcoin guy?
00:39:08.000 I don't own any.
00:39:09.000 So I bought it at $11,000.
00:39:11.000 And then I sold it quickly at $11,000 because I just couldn't wrap my brain around it.
00:39:16.000 I had the Winklevoss twins explaining to me what it was.
00:39:19.000 They told me a story that sounded cockamamie to me.
00:39:22.000 It's like Elon Musk is mining gold from outer space.
00:39:25.000 It's going to rain down.
00:39:26.000 I'm like, I don't know what's going on here.
00:39:27.000 I'm going to stick with things I know.
00:39:30.000 The timing of me doing that, it went bananas.
00:39:33.000 I mean, within a month of me selling it is when this rocket ship happened.
00:39:37.000 It's interesting to me, the Bitcoin, the crypto people will taunt me every single day about not being in it.
00:39:44.000 I love the way they handle social media.
00:39:46.000 I think it's hilarious.
00:39:47.000 It's kind of my vein.
00:39:49.000 In a second I want to ask you about one of the other things that you do.
00:39:54.000 You go around eating pizza at different small shops.
00:39:57.000 I want to ask you about that in a second.
00:39:58.000 First, you may have noticed that they are currently blowing out the currency.
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00:40:03.000 We are spending more money than any government in human history.
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00:40:12.000 I don't think so.
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00:41:06.000 Alrighty, so let's talk about the one-bite pizza.
00:41:10.000 Sure.
00:41:11.000 Sure.
00:41:12.000 So how did this begin?
00:41:13.000 So that began, I want to say about five years ago.
00:41:15.000 We had a debate in our office.
00:41:17.000 If you could eat one food the rest of your life, what would it be?
00:41:19.000 One of the guys who works for us said burritos.
00:41:22.000 I think his theory was like breakfast burritos.
00:41:24.000 I said pizza, and then we actually did it.
00:41:27.000 So for about a month, I only ate pizza every single meal.
00:41:31.000 I was eating it so much, I had grease coming out of my toes.
00:41:33.000 It was gross.
00:41:35.000 But I was eating it so much, people started being like, how is it?
00:41:38.000 And I'm like, alright, I'll just take one bite and give you a quick score.
00:41:42.000 And it just resonated.
00:41:43.000 It was obvious it resonated, so even after the contest ended, I continued to do it.
00:41:48.000 We're in Boston at the time, and when I moved to New York, I said, I'll just try every single pizza place in New York.
00:41:55.000 And it's one of those things, people still see me in the street, and they'll just think I'm the pizza guy.
00:41:59.000 Like, they don't even know I do anything else.
00:42:01.000 Like, oh, there goes the pizza guy.
00:42:03.000 So it is probably the single most popular thing I do.
00:42:06.000 Although, I have to say that I did get a kick out of my co-religionist spotting you on the street, knowing exactly who you were, in Fairfax, and one of them bar mitzvahing you.
00:42:16.000 Yeah, he bar mitzvahed me.
00:42:17.000 It was weird timing, because he... So that was filmed, like, weeks before.
00:42:22.000 My sex tape was released, and he was wrapping, like, leather around me, and I had a little joke.
00:42:28.000 I'm like, this looks like a fetish video.
00:42:31.000 It came out the same day, so it set me up for some bad, bad jokes.
00:42:36.000 Are you Jewish?
00:42:37.000 I am.
00:42:37.000 Oh, OK.
00:42:38.000 So what do your parents think of all this?
00:42:40.000 They haven't talked to me about the most recent sex tape.
00:42:42.000 The first sex tape.
00:42:43.000 Is that what you're asking?
00:42:44.000 The first one, they asked me, my dad, he's like, did you do this on purpose?
00:42:52.000 Are you trying to be like Kim Kardashian?
00:42:54.000 I'm like, are you crazy?
00:42:56.000 Of course not.
00:42:57.000 But, you know, they've come to roll with the punches, I think.
00:43:01.000 My dad was the type of guy, he'd send me, if he saw a story on the internet, he'd fax it to me.
00:43:08.000 So he was not necessarily the most savvy tech guy, but it took him a while to realize, hey, this thing is working, Barstool.
00:43:15.000 They're proud, but occasionally sex tape will be collateral damage to having you be successful, I guess.
00:43:23.000 So let's talk for a second about, you know, what does the future look like?
00:43:26.000 Not just for Barstool, but for you.
00:43:28.000 So we'll start with Barstool.
00:43:29.000 What do you think Barstool looks like 10 years from now?
00:43:31.000 Which ways are you looking to grow here?
00:43:33.000 Yeah, you know, I get asked that all the time and I'm always reluctant to answer because if you told me TikTok Was it around like six months ago?
00:43:40.000 You're crazy.
00:43:41.000 So there's so many trends and technology changes so quick.
00:43:44.000 I think one of the things that makes Barstool Barstool is we won't be set in our ways and we'll adapt quick.
00:43:49.000 So what does the world look like in 10 years?
00:43:53.000 I have no clue.
00:43:53.000 I don't know.
00:43:54.000 I know we want to continue to be on brand in the sense of trying to take life not too seriously.
00:44:00.000 And that's really what it's for and, you know, have some fun and make jokes and things of that nature.
00:44:05.000 For me personally, right now I'm super focused on getting Barstool and the gambling stuff going.
00:44:15.000 That is a big part of what was bought.
00:44:17.000 And just continuing to find talent and make Barstool relevant.
00:44:23.000 Compliment.
00:44:24.000 Someone can give Varsal.
00:44:25.000 We've been cutting edge, cool, and relevant for almost two decades.
00:44:30.000 There aren't too many brands who can maintain kind of that like, yeah, they're edgy vibe, but we have for two decades.
00:44:38.000 So are you concerned?
00:44:39.000 I mean, I sort of asked this earlier, but are you concerned that as the culture decides that jokes are forbidden, that that's going to be bad for your business?
00:44:45.000 Or you think it's going to provide an opportunity to open wider?
00:44:47.000 Well, I don't know that that's going to continue.
00:44:50.000 You know, Trump broke so many people's brains.
00:44:53.000 I'm curious to see what the next couple of years are like, because he just had people Like, everybody who complained about something we, a joke we made, and this isn't 99.9% of the time, this was 100% of the time.
00:45:09.000 If I looked at their Twitter profile, it was political.
00:45:12.000 Underneath what they said about me, it was politics 100% of the time.
00:45:17.000 So, maybe that goes away and opens up.
00:45:19.000 The flip side is...
00:45:21.000 There is an audience that appreciates, and it's not even left or right, it's kind of both, like, I like how these guys aren't backing down.
00:45:28.000 And our audience allows us to do that.
00:45:30.000 So people have always asked, why do you fight back?
00:45:33.000 Or why do you push back?
00:45:34.000 Or why don't you just shut up when someone takes a shot at you that you feel is unfair?
00:45:37.000 It's like, I'm not going to do that.
00:45:39.000 Like, I will never throw the first punch, but if you Throw a shot at me on Twitter out of the clouds.
00:45:46.000 It's not my responsibility to protect you.
00:45:49.000 I don't feel that way.
00:45:50.000 I haven't felt that way since day one and I don't feel it now.
00:45:53.000 But that's what all these people do.
00:45:55.000 They'll throw grenades and then they'll cry when you're like, well, we're shooting back now.
00:45:59.000 It's like, why'd you throw the grenade?
00:46:01.000 So, and I've offered this is, I know it's kind of cliche.
00:46:03.000 I'll talk to anybody.
00:46:04.000 If you have a problem with me, I'll talk to you anytime, any place, anywhere.
00:46:08.000 You can bring a hundred people and I'll debate you by myself because I'm confident Now, are there jokes I've made that I wish I didn't and are perceived differently now?
00:46:18.000 Of course!
00:46:18.000 But I've been doing this for 20 years, so I'll go through point by point by point everything I've ever said and done.
00:46:24.000 Some, maybe I wish I didn't do that, but I know my character and our intent has always been to make people laugh.
00:46:31.000 Period.
00:46:32.000 So you mentioned Trump, and obviously Trump has been the political 400-pound gorilla in the room, 800-pound gorilla in the room for a while here.
00:46:39.000 So what did you make of Trump, and what was it like interviewing him?
00:46:42.000 That was surreal, interviewing him, because I've never interviewed anybody before.
00:46:45.000 So I found out, they asked me to do it the day before.
00:46:49.000 I was like, all right, yeah, cool.
00:46:51.000 I'm going to go to the White House and do it.
00:46:52.000 Great.
00:46:53.000 He was super nice to me.
00:46:56.000 And I thought there was an element of, My personality.
00:47:02.000 And he gets attacked so much, probably, that his hackles go out.
00:47:06.000 And almost like what I just said, oh, you're going to attack me?
00:47:08.000 I'm going to be a real jerk back to you.
00:47:10.000 Now, is it always presidential?
00:47:11.000 Probably not.
00:47:12.000 There's things he did that I like, and I think he's so unusual.
00:47:17.000 And then there's things he did where it's like, ugh, that makes it hard for me to support him.
00:47:22.000 And like the Charlottesville riots, when he's like, there's bad people on both sides.
00:47:26.000 To me, it's like, that was like the KKK.
00:47:29.000 You gotta like say that and be more open to that.
00:47:32.000 I think the way he handled the Capitol was really bad.
00:47:35.000 So there's things he did that really bad.
00:47:37.000 But again, it's so two-sided on every, like the Democrats being like, let's all get along now.
00:47:44.000 And you got to support the president.
00:47:46.000 It's like, well, you didn't do that.
00:47:47.000 So why should they do that?
00:47:49.000 So it's just sucks.
00:47:50.000 Both sides suck.
00:47:52.000 But he's not a black and white guy.
00:47:53.000 That's for sure.
00:47:54.000 And I do think So you guys are still located in New York.
00:47:58.000 Is that going to be for the long haul considering which way New York is going right now?
00:48:02.000 into a state where he thinks he can say things that gets his base behind him.
00:48:06.000 He'll do it.
00:48:07.000 He's not dumb, he's doing it.
00:48:08.000 But does it help unity and things like that?
00:48:11.000 Probably not.
00:48:12.000 So you guys are still located in New York.
00:48:13.000 Is that going to be for the long haul, considering which way New York is going right now?
00:48:17.000 I don't know.
00:48:17.000 I mean, where are we gonna go?
00:48:20.000 Massachusetts, which isn't probably much better tax-wise.
00:48:23.000 So we're an East Coast company.
00:48:25.000 We're an East Coast grind.
00:48:26.000 Down here in Florida, man.
00:48:27.000 What are you doing?
00:48:28.000 No, I couldn't take my company here.
00:48:29.000 I'm going to be here, but I've got a young company.
00:48:31.000 And to see my guys strolling down South Beach at 4 a.m., we won't have to worry about taxes because we won't be making any money.
00:48:38.000 So we've got to find that balance.
00:48:41.000 On the personal level, how old are you now?
00:48:44.000 Okay, so you're 44.
00:48:46.000 Recently turned.
00:48:47.000 Got it.
00:48:48.000 Okay, so I'm recently turned 37.
00:48:50.000 I have three kids.
00:48:50.000 Okay.
00:48:52.000 They're 7, 4, and a baby.
00:48:54.000 So, you got kids in your future?
00:48:56.000 Or like, I'm never going to be your parents.
00:48:57.000 What are you doing?
00:48:58.000 Yeah, no.
00:48:59.000 No kids right now in the future because I don't have a girlfriend.
00:49:01.000 So, I was married.
00:49:03.000 So, I was married for five years, dated for five years.
00:49:05.000 She's still actually my best friend.
00:49:08.000 You know, I take it day by day.
00:49:10.000 It's like, do I wake up and be like, damn, I need kids?
00:49:13.000 No.
00:49:14.000 If I met somebody that's like, oh, this person I want to have kids with, great.
00:49:17.000 But I don't lose sleep over it.
00:49:19.000 And then you mentioned that you were Jewish growing up.
00:49:21.000 What's your religious kind of thought now?
00:49:23.000 Do you ever think about it?
00:49:24.000 I mean, I'm still Jewish.
00:49:25.000 That doesn't change.
00:49:26.000 I grew up on Mitzvah.
00:49:27.000 But I'm not like a practicing Jew.
00:49:30.000 You know, religion, I think, is great if it's used the right way.
00:49:34.000 I think a lot of times over, you know, history, it's been used In a weird way, I like how politics, like for power and things like that, as basic as it sounds, it's like, be nice.
00:49:46.000 That is a religion I think everybody should just basically have.
00:49:49.000 I think the widespread perception of you is that, not total perception, but there is this kind of media-created perception that you're the guy who's out of control, that nobody You like that?
00:49:59.000 Where do you feel?
00:49:59.000 You don't like that?
00:50:00.000 It can benefit at times, but that's part of the reason we did the deal and sold, because you bring in people that bring credibility to it.
00:50:11.000 Yeah, I guess I don't mind.
00:50:14.000 I'm not nearly as wild as people think I am, but that's fine.
00:50:19.000 I don't give it much thought, I guess.
00:50:21.000 People are going to think what they think.
00:50:22.000 And to be honest, the people who don't like me, I give them a hundred dollars and they'll be like, why don't you give me a thousand?
00:50:26.000 Like, they're just never going to like me.
00:50:28.000 That's what I was going to ask, because your company has, you were telling me earlier, like 250 employees.
00:50:32.000 Companies that are running on the seat of their pants don't typically have 250 employees and do hundreds of millions of dollars here in business.
00:50:39.000 Yeah.
00:50:40.000 And maybe it's not as seat of our pants as I'm making it seem.
00:50:43.000 Like Eric Andradini, who our CEO is brilliant.
00:50:46.000 And we have a lot of really smart people working there.
00:50:49.000 But everyone just has a similar mindset.
00:50:51.000 Not afraid to take chances.
00:50:53.000 And, you know, we haven't changed what's worked.
00:50:56.000 And what's worked is us being truly authentic.
00:51:01.000 There's been so many stories now.
00:51:03.000 Authentic really, I feel like, became a huge buzzword.
00:51:06.000 In media the last couple years and I always hear stories like someone told me ESPN had a Meeting on how to be authentic.
00:51:13.000 It's like well, you already lost like having a meeting on how to be authentic.
00:51:17.000 We don't do that We're just ourselves.
00:51:19.000 We don't handle PR differently.
00:51:21.000 Like I mean We just do things in a different manner like we yet we do have PR people they don't even talk to me because when someone asked me about a sex tape or a controversy I I answer honestly, like, who cares?
00:51:35.000 I had sex, like, big deal.
00:51:38.000 So that's just who we are.
00:51:40.000 I feel like that is sort of the new wave in business, though, because I will say we have a very slim management structure at Daily Wire, too.
00:51:45.000 And one of the things we pride ourselves on is the fact that we can react incredibly quickly, whereas a lot of these bigger companies, it takes a while for them to turn the ship.
00:51:51.000 If they're headed in a particular direction, it's just going to take them forever to steer that ship.
00:51:55.000 And once they're committed to that course, it feels like They're kind of, they're kind of done.
00:52:00.000 Yeah.
00:52:00.000 And there's red tape and there's people who, you know, jobs may be the line if you make the wrong decision.
00:52:05.000 Like we dealt with that all the time, early Barstool.
00:52:08.000 I knew we were way bigger than people thought we were, but traditional advertisers, God forbid, something goes wrong.
00:52:15.000 Do you want to be the guy who says I chose them?
00:52:17.000 The reward wasn't worth the risk for somebody who's working a nine to five.
00:52:22.000 And you know, that's just something they're not interested in.
00:52:25.000 As a business owner, you obviously had a run-in with the NLRB.
00:52:27.000 We were talking about this a little bit earlier.
00:52:29.000 I have a similar experience with the NLRB where I made a joke about firing employees if they tried to run my company in terms of politics.
00:52:38.000 But you had the same experience and the NLRB went after you.
00:52:40.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:52:41.000 There's a company I hate.
00:52:42.000 There's a couple of them.
00:52:43.000 There's a bunch of them.
00:52:45.000 And that's probably why, by the way, people, because they identify as super left and they're the worst.
00:52:51.000 Absolutely no fun club.
00:52:53.000 And I made fun of them because they basically went bankrupt.
00:52:56.000 And all their writers lost their jobs.
00:52:58.000 And they had this great union.
00:52:59.000 And we don't have a union, and no one wants to leave our company.
00:53:03.000 And I made fun of them, like, hey, that union did great for you guys, huh?
00:53:05.000 You all got fired.
00:53:07.000 Total joke.
00:53:09.000 And it became an issue.
00:53:11.000 AOC, who sucks.
00:53:15.000 Jumped in on this without any knowledge.
00:53:18.000 She's just looking she used it I think as a fundraiser like I she put me in her fundraising letter the next day shocking.
00:53:24.000 She did fundraising I can't know no And I know she didn't know anything about what she was talking about it But it made it a much bigger issue, and then we have people coming at me.
00:53:35.000 It's like you you don't even know The analogy I use with us a lot of times is going to a comedy show that you don't know who the comedian is, you didn't buy a ticket, you walk in, you hear a joke, you walk out in the street, you're like, you never believe what this guy said without mentioning you were in a comedy club.
00:53:53.000 That's what I feel happens and that's kind of what AOC did.
00:53:58.000 So, you know, It wasn't even the, whatever they're called, like they didn't know what was going on either.
00:54:04.000 All these people issued complaints and once AOC makes it seem like it's a real thing, which it's not, it would be like taking a joke from American Pie and be like, oh my God.
00:54:13.000 So once it became that, they said, well, the end result of this was I had to send a letter, oh no, an email to my company saying I was kidding, which by the way, I was, so I didn't care doing it.
00:54:26.000 We're having the same issue and we're probably going to fight it all the way.
00:54:30.000 Because they basically, once I tweeted out that members of my company, I'd be happy to fire them if they wished to take the company in a different editorial direction.
00:54:40.000 Which is not, by the way, a unionizable issue.
00:54:42.000 I issued a tweet saying we follow all of the NLRA, we follow all of the applicable law.
00:54:46.000 NLRB still sent us a letter asking me to take down the original tweet and then apologize for ever having made a joke about this sort of stuff.
00:54:53.000 I'm never going to apologize for making a joke about this sort of stuff.
00:54:55.000 Are you kidding me?
00:54:56.000 Yeah, it's like what you said.
00:54:57.000 Like I, you know, I didn't take a vacation day for 10 years.
00:55:01.000 Like I worked my ass off for Barstool.
00:55:03.000 I really did.
00:55:04.000 And, you know, I hired people.
00:55:06.000 I put my own money back into it, risk it, hire people.
00:55:09.000 We have a great thing, but it's like now you're going to tell me what I have to do on a talent business, by the way.
00:55:16.000 I always said that we're talking about people who, if you don't think you're making enough money with me and you're talented, then you can just not re-sign with me.
00:55:26.000 And if you're as talented as you think you are and you're being underpaid, somebody else will pay you.
00:55:31.000 If somebody else won't pay you, you're probably getting what you deserve or maybe more with me.
00:55:36.000 So, like, you don't need a union for what we're doing.
00:55:41.000 But it was more I was just making fun of this company.
00:55:43.000 I hate it.
00:55:44.000 What do you think is the future of sports?
00:55:46.000 Because what we've seen over the past few years is the viewership on sports is just hitting the skids.
00:55:51.000 I mean, it's really, really bad, except for, you know, maybe MMA, which continues to do really, really well.
00:55:56.000 I think in part because Dana White runs his company kind of like you run your company or I run my company.
00:56:00.000 He's just like, you know, this is my company.
00:56:01.000 I'm doing exactly whatever the hell I want.
00:56:03.000 And if you don't like it, you can shove it.
00:56:04.000 But all these other big kind of sporting conglomerates, NFL, NBA, MLB, they seemed like they were in growth mode, some of them, NFL and NBA particularly, five years ago.
00:56:13.000 But it seems like now they are running into some real headwinds.
00:56:16.000 What do you think is the future of sports here?
00:56:18.000 It's hard to say, you know.
00:56:20.000 And it's hard to actually, in my mind, pull out necessarily what's happening.
00:56:24.000 Like e-gaming, for example.
00:56:25.000 People grow up.
00:56:26.000 The kids nowadays are doing different things.
00:56:28.000 Like, I used to go play wiffle ball and baseball every day.
00:56:30.000 Now people are playing video games.
00:56:32.000 And that's a world that is exploring TikTok and things like that.
00:56:35.000 The kids, they're making videos of dancing in front of mirrors.
00:56:39.000 They're not doing traditional things.
00:56:41.000 And I think that effect plays out on ratings and things like that.
00:56:47.000 I really don't know.
00:56:48.000 I mean, I think the sports will be around.
00:56:50.000 Football's got a little bit of probably an issue with like, not only whether it be political stuff, but actual like concussions and things of that nature and taking hitting out of the game.
00:56:58.000 I don't know.
00:57:00.000 I think it really varies sport to sport, but I couldn't imagine a world where they're not here.
00:57:04.000 Let's say you have a hundred bucks.
00:57:05.000 You got to put it on a sport.
00:57:07.000 And this is the sport that's the growth sport for the next 10, 15 years.
00:57:09.000 Which one do you put it on?
00:57:10.000 NBA.
00:57:11.000 I think they have the best commissioner.
00:57:13.000 And I think that's what's going on.
00:57:37.000 There's hype.
00:57:38.000 I mean hypocritical LeBron's like the old time with like they're in their stances on China and what's going on.
00:57:43.000 So I agree with that.
00:57:45.000 But I think they got the best commissioner.
00:57:47.000 And I think they're most internet savvy.
00:57:50.000 Okay.
00:57:50.000 That would be why I'd pick them.
00:57:51.000 What do you think the Celtics are going to do in the playoffs this year?
00:57:54.000 May as well ask you that.
00:57:56.000 I think they could get hot.
00:57:57.000 We looked before the show, you and I, there's about four or five teams cramped for that seven or eight.
00:58:02.000 I don't think there's any beast in the, like the Sixers are one.
00:58:06.000 Brooklyn could be a problem.
00:58:07.000 You don't know what happens if Durant's healthy and Kyrie, like, isn't having mental issues.
00:58:14.000 They'd probably be my favorite if they're healthy, but I think they can make a run.
00:58:17.000 So you're in the cultural space.
00:58:18.000 It seems like there's, oddly enough, this very culturally unifying figure we mentioned right at the very top.
00:58:24.000 There are a lot of people across the spectrum who love Barstool, who love what you're doing.
00:58:28.000 But it feels politically, from where I sit, because that's what I do every day, that the country's falling apart.
00:58:32.000 It feels like people are polarizing.
00:58:34.000 I think the center will hold.
00:58:35.000 I just think there's too many people who get along than don't.
00:58:37.000 There's more that unites us than doesn't.
00:58:38.000 Do you think it's going to be that the country falls apart, or do you think that there is this center that is going to hold, or are just people too apathetic?
00:58:45.000 I think the center will hold.
00:58:46.000 I just think there's too many people who get along, then don't.
00:58:50.000 There's more that unites us than doesn't.
00:58:52.000 And one of the things people always mention is, I don't know anyone else does it better.
00:59:00.000 I don't think so.
00:59:00.000 So it's very easy here to criticize, and there's no doubt there's problems.
00:59:05.000 There's problems in every country.
00:59:07.000 But then you're like, all right, go pick where you want to go.
00:59:09.000 Like, what other country do you want to go to that is this utopia that you think exists?
00:59:14.000 Because it doesn't.
00:59:16.000 So I think the center will hold.
00:59:19.000 I don't think it would be good if Trump ran for president again, because I think he is, like, I think the Republicans can find People who unite the country, if you're a Republican, you can get a lot of things you want done without somebody that, whether he's right or wrong, he's going to divide again.
00:59:38.000 So I hope that doesn't happen, to be totally honest.
00:59:40.000 I want to ask a few final questions here.
00:59:43.000 Starting with, you're giving advice to somebody who's about to start a business.
00:59:46.000 What are the key pieces of advice?
00:59:48.000 But if you'd like to hear Dave Portnoy's answers, you have to be a Daily Wire member.
00:59:51.000 Head on over to dailywire.com.
00:59:52.000 Click subscribe.
00:59:53.000 You can hear the rest of our conversation over there.
00:59:56.000 Everybody, go take a look at the Barstool shows.
00:59:58.000 There are a bunch.
00:59:59.000 There's bound to be one for you.
01:00:00.000 Plus, download that Barstool Sportsbook app.
01:00:02.000 Go check out the Barstool Fund.
01:00:03.000 They're supporting small businesses right now.
01:00:05.000 They're awesome.
01:00:06.000 Dave, thank you so much for stopping by.
01:00:07.000 Bye.
01:00:08.000 That was fun.
01:00:17.000 The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday special is produced by Mathis Glover.
01:00:20.000 Executive Producer Jeremy Boring.
01:00:22.000 Our technical director is Austin Stevens, and our assistant director is Pavel Lydowsky.
01:00:26.000 Our guests are booked by Caitlin Maynard.
01:00:28.000 Editing is by Jim Nickel.
01:00:29.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Coromina.
01:00:31.000 Hair and makeup is by Fabiola Cristina.
01:00:33.000 Title graphics are by Cynthia Angulo.
01:00:35.000 The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special is a Daily Wire production.