The Ben Shapiro Show - Dr. Phil McGraw | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 42

00:00:00.000 Do I have a history that predisposes me to a certain thing?

00:00:03.000 Yes.

00:00:04.000 That just means it's harder for you to do what you need to do, but it is still up to you.

00:00:09.000 The past is over.

00:00:09.000 The future hasn't happened yet.

00:00:11.000 The only time is right now.

00:00:12.000 And the only question is, what are you going to do?

00:00:22.000 Hello and welcome.

00:00:23.000 This is the Sunday Special with Dr. Phil McGraw, the host of the Dr. Phil Show and the brand new podcast, Phil in the Blanks.

00:00:29.000 We'll get to our interview with Dr. Phil in just one second, but first let's talk about the post office.

00:00:33.000 No one really has time to go to the post office.

00:00:36.000 You are busy.

00:00:36.000 Who's got the time for all that traffic, parking, lugging all your mail and packages?

00:00:39.000 No joke.

00:00:40.000 Last time I went to the post office, I got a parking ticket.

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00:01:11.000 Once your mail is ready, just hand it to your mail carrier or drop it in a mailbox.

00:01:14.000 It is indeed that simple.

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00:01:20.000 Not to mention, it's a fraction of the cost of those expensive postage meters.

00:01:23.000 Stamps.com is a no-brainer.

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00:01:30.000 Well, Dr. Phil, thanks so much for stopping by.

00:01:45.000 Not sure why you're slumming it with us, but I'm glad you made it.

00:01:48.000 Listen, nice digs you got here.

00:01:50.000 I appreciate it. 0.99

00:01:51.000 And you're a solid liar. 0.99

00:01:53.000 I can only tell because I've been watching your show and you've told me how to spot a liar. 0.99

00:01:58.000 See, I need to stop doing that.

00:01:59.000 People can pick it out now.

00:02:01.000 It's dangerous.

00:02:02.000 So let's start from the very beginning.

00:02:03.000 For folks who don't know your story, how did you become the Dr. Phil that is a household name?

00:02:07.000 Everybody knows who you are.

00:02:08.000 How did you go from point A to point B?

00:02:09.000 Well, Oprah has a big part of this.

00:02:13.000 There would be no Dr. Phil without Oprah, of course.

00:02:17.000 I was working as a trial consultant.

00:02:20.000 I had a trial science firm in Dallas called Courtroom Sciences, and I represented Oprah as part of her trial team in the Mad Cow case.

00:02:29.000 People might remember the Mad Cow case up in Amarillo.

00:02:33.000 She was sued by the cattle growers. 0.99

00:02:35.000 People think it's a bunch of ranchers.

00:02:36.000 Not a bunch of ranchers.

00:02:38.000 A bunch of cattle growers.

00:02:39.000 I mean, these are with 100,000 cows in a feedlot.

00:02:43.000 She made a comment that they alleged disparaged her about beef and sued her in Amarillo.

00:02:50.000 And that's behind enemy lines for her.

00:02:53.000 So I helped defend her in that case up there.

00:02:57.000 And after that, she asked me to be on her show.

00:03:00.000 And after a while, I did.

00:03:02.000 And then she asked me to be on again and then again and again.

00:03:05.000 And then I started doing every Tuesday for five years.

00:03:09.000 And from that, Came the Dr. Phil Show, and I'm now in my 17th season.

00:03:14.000 I never intended to be on television at all.

00:03:16.000 In fact, in all the years that I worked as a trial scientist, I never gave one interview, not one time.

00:03:23.000 You know, people would come to trial and say, you know, who are you?

00:03:27.000 Answer was always the same, I'm not here.

00:03:30.000 Because we didn't want to be in the spotlight then.

00:03:32.000 We wanted to be behind the scenes.

00:03:35.000 So it was never my aspiration to do it, but I really enjoyed doing her show and then spraying the Dr. Phil.

00:03:45.000 And now, as I say, we're in our 17th season, coming up on 3,000 shows.

00:03:51.000 20,000 guests and here we are.

00:03:54.000 One of the things that obviously you're famous for is your ability to read other human beings and a lot of your show is the personal interaction that you have with other folks.

00:04:01.000 How accurate do you think that people can actually be just by talking to folks about assessing where they're coming from, whether they're lying, that sort of thing?

00:04:11.000 Well, you know, when you really sit down and focus on somebody, and particularly the people that I work with, I think they really come in wanting me to know the truth.

00:04:24.000 Uh, and we really manage people's expectations.

00:04:27.000 First off, I don't work with anybody that doesn't want to work with me.

00:04:31.000 I mean, I don't stop cars out on sunset and say, you look like you need help.

00:04:35.000 Get out.

00:04:36.000 Uh, that's not how it works.

00:04:38.000 I mean, we get tens of thousands of emails of people wanting to be there and, and it's hard to get there because, uh, I mean, somebody told me the other day, uh, the, Average guest is written in 20 or 30 times before they get there, which I hate.

00:04:54.000 I'm sorry about that.

00:04:57.000 But they really want to be there.

00:04:59.000 And I make it real clear, look, I can help you with anything you tell me about, even if it's to tell you I can't help you, or I will send you where you can get help. 0.94

00:05:10.000 But if you come in and tell me something that's not the truth, if you're just coming in trying to cover your ass or spin this, you're wasting my time and yours.

00:05:18.000 So you worked really hard to get here, so you need to tell me the truth. 0.97

00:05:23.000 So most people really are trying to put it out there and tell me the truth.

00:05:27.000 And if they're not, it's pretty obvious.

00:05:30.000 If somebody's there just trying to be a right fighter, not own their part of a circumstance or situation, whether it's a family issue or they're on drugs or whatever, if they're trying to evade and hide, it's pretty evident, because They're not wanting to take accountability or whatever, and once they start getting honest, that's real clear, too.

00:05:53.000 But most of the people come in are trying to really get some help, sincerely, or they don't make the cut, because we do Every guest that I deal with, I get a notebook that's probably 250 pages thick, because we do intake interview, I do a cross-sectional history, a longitudinal history, a medical history, a social history.

00:06:16.000 We interview collaterals, neighbors, friends, family members, to try to get as many perspectives as we possibly can.

00:06:24.000 So I have a lot of information that doesn't just come from them.

00:06:29.000 And then I have an advisory board for Dr. Phil, and that's made up of the top minds in psychology, psychiatry, medicine, sociology, and they're from the top learning centers in the country.

00:06:44.000 I've got the head of the family division in the Harvard Medical School, the children Child psychiatry at Yale University.

00:06:52.000 I've got Dr. Zimbardo, a professor emeritus from Stanford University that's done all the—remember, he did the prison experiment.

00:06:59.000 He's written most of the general psych textbooks.

00:07:03.000 If people went through general psych, they probably had Zimbardo as a textbook.

00:07:09.000 I've just got, you know, really the These are a lot of the editors of the peer-reviewed journals in psychology.

00:07:16.000 These are all on my advisory board.

00:07:18.000 So if I get a really complex case, I can send it out to these different men and women on my advisory board and get really good input from them.

00:07:27.000 You know, there's about an 18 to 24-month lag time From research that's accepted for these peer journals to the time it gets published.

00:07:36.000 So I get beyond cutting-edge information for my guests.

00:07:40.000 So we really do our homework.

00:07:42.000 So what do you think are some of the benefits and drawbacks of dealing with people on a psychological level in public like this?

00:07:50.000 Well, first off, you have to be real clear in your expectations of what you're going to do.

00:07:59.000 I am 100% clear with myself that I'm not up there doing 30-minute cures.

00:08:05.000 I mean, come on.

00:08:07.000 People ask me sometimes, you know, Dr. Phil, are problems really as simple as you make them out to be?

00:08:14.000 I don't think problems are simple at all.

00:08:17.000 In fact, I think problems are often very complex.

00:08:21.000 But I think the solutions are often very simple.

00:08:24.000 You can have a complex problem that maybe is generational through someone's family history, or it may be a problem of comorbidity where there's drugs, and then there are psychological issues, and then familial issues.

00:08:40.000 There are lots of things that are feeding in to define a problem that's multifaceted.

00:08:47.000 But the solution to that problem may be very simple, such as stop doing drugs, get the toxic people out of your life, hit the reset button and start behaving your way to success, and I'm going to give you the resources to do that.

00:09:04.000 I'm going to get you a life coach.

00:09:05.000 I'm going to get you a rehab center to get you detox from these drugs with medical supervision. 0.98

00:09:10.000 And we're going to bring a family counselor in to start redefining what you call a family dynamic. 1.00

00:09:16.000 So, you know, after 17 years, I've got a network of resources.

00:09:22.000 We've just passed $30 million in aftercare resources that we share with our guests off-camera, away from the show where they actually do the work.

00:09:31.000 So I don't think I'm solving these people's problems.

00:09:35.000 Sometimes we do, sometimes it's very simple.

00:09:38.000 But I think of it as being kind of an emotional compass.

00:09:42.000 I can tell you what I think, point you in the right direction, and then help you with the resources you need to get there.

00:09:49.000 And every guest is a teaching tool.

00:09:51.000 So, like, you might come on the show and be a real hammerhead, just as an example.

00:09:56.000 Just as an example.

00:09:57.000 And maybe you don't get it.

00:09:58.000 Maybe what I'm telling you, you don't get.

00:10:00.000 But sometimes the hardest, most hard-headed guests are the best teaching tools.

00:10:05.000 Because then I'll get thousands of letters and they'll say, oh my God, what a hard head.

00:10:10.000 He didn't get it.

00:10:11.000 But I did.

00:10:12.000 I heard him saying things I've said before, and I will never say that again.

00:10:16.000 Oh my God.

00:10:18.000 So they're great teaching tools, even though they don't get it.

00:10:23.000 And is it a problem doing it in public for some people?

00:10:28.000 If so, They wouldn't be there.

00:10:31.000 I mean, they choose to come.

00:10:33.000 And, you know, there's a certain percent of the people that are just exhibitionistic in their personality.

00:10:38.000 I mean, let's just face it.

00:10:39.000 They just, they want the attention.

00:10:41.000 They want to do it in front of a camera.

00:10:44.000 We have a narcissistic society.

00:10:46.000 Some people just want to be in the spotlight.

00:10:49.000 And then there's a percentage of the people that they just uniquely want my perspective.

00:10:55.000 They think, he tells, I'm tired of going to a psychologist that pats me on the hand and says it's going to be okay, and how's that make you feel?

00:11:03.000 They want somebody that puts verbs in their sentences and cuts to the chase.

00:11:05.000 So they come because they uniquely feel like I've been in their living room every day for 15 years.

00:11:12.000 They trust me and want to know my… It seems like a lot of your brand and a lot of your popularity is linked to the fact that you're a very big advocate of personal responsibility.

00:11:31.000 From the shows that I've seen, a lot of what happens, people come in, they don't want to take responsibility for what's going on in their life, they don't want to take responsibility for their choices and you kind of tell them that they need to take responsibility for those choices.

00:11:43.000 Do you think that that's...

00:11:44.000 Has that been successful, typically?

00:11:46.000 I mean, it sounds like you have follow-up resources.

00:11:48.000 And also, have you gotten blowback for pushing that hard on sort of the personal responsibility angle?

00:11:53.000 Well, look, I don't make the rules.

00:11:57.000 I'm just telling them what they are.

00:11:58.000 I mean, look, there are some things that... I'm one of those people that believes old sayings get to be old sayings because they're profound.

00:12:09.000 Like a stitch in time saves nine, you know?

00:12:11.000 I mean, these things stick around generation to generation to generation because they apply.

00:12:16.000 And I have certain rules, like, you just don't reward bad behavior.

00:12:22.000 I mean, Lassie can figure this out. 0.88

00:12:25.000 You don't need to come to me for that.

00:12:26.000 But sometimes they're so close to it, they do.

00:12:29.000 You don't reward bad behavior.

00:12:31.000 Somebody comes in, they says, I got a 30-year-old son that's on drugs.

00:12:35.000 He's living in my house. 1.00

00:12:36.000 He's telling me I'm a bitch. 1.00

00:12:37.000 He won't clean up his room. 1.00

00:12:39.000 And I can't get him to do what I need him to do.

00:12:42.000 Well, why are you letting him live with you?

00:12:46.000 Why are you buying him a new cell phone?

00:12:49.000 Why are you paying all of his car payment and insurance?

00:12:54.000 And he's calling you a...

00:12:57.000 I mean, to me, that just seems simple.

00:12:59.000 You're rewarding bad behavior, and then you're asking me why he does it.

00:13:03.000 Why wouldn't he do it?

00:13:05.000 You're requiring nothing of him.

00:13:07.000 So, of course he's going to do that.

00:13:12.000 Some words get so overused, they lose their meaning, like enabling.

00:13:16.000 You say, oh, well, you're an enabler.

00:13:18.000 People don't really stop and think what that really means.

00:13:21.000 It's used so much it loses its meaning.

00:13:23.000 Enable means I'm making it possible for him to do what he's doing.

00:13:29.000 And if I stop making it easy for him to do what he's doing, then again, old saying, necessity is the mother of invention.

00:13:36.000 If he has to find a new way to live, then he'll find a new way to live.

00:13:43.000 I mean, so I think sometimes when I'll set a parent down and say, look, let's face it.

00:13:54.000 You're doing what you're doing.

00:13:57.000 To make yourself feel better.

00:14:00.000 Not to make your addict child healthier, because it's not making your addict child healthier.

00:14:06.000 You're actually doing this so you're not anxious about them being on the street.

00:14:11.000 So don't kid yourself you're doing this to help them.

00:14:15.000 You're doing this so you don't lay awake at night.

00:14:19.000 You would rather enable them and have them high in their bedroom than worry about them being on the street.

00:14:25.000 So you're doing this for you, not them.

00:14:27.000 You're being selfish, and you're crippling them at their expense to make yourself feel better.

00:14:32.000 Now, they don't want to hear that, but is there any other way to see it?

00:14:37.000 And so I tell them the truth, and usually Once they wrap their head around that, then they say, I never thought of it that way.

00:14:45.000 And they change what they're doing.

00:14:46.000 Well, in just a second, I want to ask you about how that kind of personal responsibility ethos meshes with a society that may be promoting the idea that we are all sort of subject to forces beyond our own control.

00:14:56.000 But first, when the founders crafted the Constitution, the very first thing they did was to make sacred the rights of the individual to share ideas without limitation by the government.

00:15:03.000 The second thing they enumerated was the right of the population to protect that speech and their own persons with force.

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00:16:14.000 So I want to ask you a little bit about the kind of—I know you don't talk politics very much.

00:16:19.000 Your show is apolitical.

00:16:20.000 But I'm not sure this is really a political question as much as it is a societal values question and may have some political ramifications.

00:16:26.000 It seems like we live in a time where a lot of folks want to blame their personal behavior on forces beyond their control.

00:16:32.000 They want to say that I do, but I don't think that it is all or none.

00:16:34.000 obviously within their control, are obviously not within their control.

00:16:38.000 They're the result of historical forces or forces out there in the ether or institutional pressures or all the rest.

00:16:44.000 Do you see that conflict right now in the country between sort of an ethos of personal responsibility and a system of thought that says that you're really a victim of circumstance?

00:16:55.000 I do, but I don't think that it is all or none.

00:17:00.000 And I look at it that way I can use genetics as a good example.

00:17:07.000 people.

00:17:09.000 My father was a bad alcoholic.

00:17:11.000 I mean, really bad alcoholic.

00:17:14.000 I mean, he would drink to the point of blackout, oblivion, violence, tearing up the house, attacking family members, etc., etc.

00:17:27.000 Now, I am genetically predisposed to be an alcoholic.

00:17:35.000 Genetics oftentimes don't tell you who is going to be a certain way.

00:17:40.000 It just tells you who is more likely to be a certain way.

00:17:44.000 It just means, for me, I have a steeper hill to climb.

00:17:49.000 It just means for me that I have a bigger challenge because of historical events.

00:17:56.000 Learning history, nature-nurture controversy, for me it was both.

00:17:59.000 That was my modeling from the most powerful role model in my life, which was my father.

00:18:05.000 Genetics, because my father had the gene and passed it on to me.

00:18:11.000 So, do I have a history that predisposes me to a certain thing?

00:18:18.000 The choice is still mine.

00:18:20.000 I still have to make that choice, and I can still make the choice.

00:18:23.000 I haven't had a drink in over 50 years.

00:18:26.000 I made the choice.

00:18:28.000 Was it harder for me to make than somebody that wasn't genetically predisposed? 0.99

00:18:32.000 Yes, it was harder for me, but I still have to make it.

00:18:35.000 And if you have a historical precedent that puts you at a disadvantage, Okay, I can understand that argument.

00:18:46.000 That just means it's harder for you to do what you need to do.

00:18:49.000 But it is still up to you, because not even God can change what has happened.

00:18:56.000 The past is over.

00:18:56.000 The future hasn't happened yet.

00:18:58.000 The only time is right now, and the only question is, what are you going to do?

00:19:02.000 And I'll say that.

00:19:04.000 I said this yesterday.

00:19:05.000 There was a young woman that I was working with that had been sexually molested. 0.99

00:19:11.000 And she was feeling really guilty and damaged by it.

00:19:16.000 And I said to her, let me be clear, you have zero accountability for what happened to you when you were eight and nine years old.

00:19:25.000 Zero.

00:19:26.000 Don't feel guilty.

00:19:27.000 I don't even care if you think back and think, I actually enjoyed it sometimes.

00:19:33.000 And so you're thinking, that makes me different.

00:19:36.000 I feel guilty.

00:19:37.000 You have zero accountability for what happened to you when you were eight or nine.

00:19:41.000 You have 100% accountability for what you do about it now.

00:19:46.000 As an adult, you are responsible for what you do about it.

00:19:50.000 Is it fair that you have to be responsible for it now, that you have to overcome that?

00:19:53.000 No, it's not fair, it just is.

00:19:57.000 I'm sorry that you have to deal with that, but you do, and nobody can fix it but you.

00:20:02.000 Zero accountability then, 100% accountability now.

00:20:06.000 Yeah, I think there is a problem that people don't want that to be the case, but it is the case.

00:20:13.000 It's not up to me to say that.

00:20:15.000 It just is.

00:20:16.000 I'm sorry.

00:20:17.000 It just is.

00:20:18.000 So in the field of politics, there's a tendency for politicians to And I wonder if there's a tendency in the field of psychology to paint people as the victims of their own biology too much, to pathologize evil, to essentially suggest that decisions are not your own.

00:20:38.000 So to take an example, there's been a lot of controversy over the last few weeks over this documentary about Michael Jackson, who was allegedly a child molester.

00:20:46.000 And there are several now, I guess, four different kids who have come forward, now adults, saying that he molested them.

00:20:51.000 When they were children.

00:20:53.000 There was an article by Dolly Lithwick over at Slate that was kind of interesting in which she said, you know, are we going to treat this as a sickness or are we going to treat this as though it's an evil?

00:21:01.000 In other words, is Michael Jackson an evil man or was he a man who was suffering from some sort of biological sickness?

00:21:07.000 Where do you come down when it comes to determining that balance in terms of personal responsibility versus maybe genetic drive to do something that we think is evil or immoral?

00:21:17.000 Well, I can't speak to the Michael Jackson situation because I don't know the facts of that situation.

00:21:23.000 But let's talk hypothetically.

00:21:25.000 When you go into psychology, it's just like as an undergraduate, you have to pick an area of specialization.

00:21:32.000 And for me, it was clinical.

00:21:34.000 And that's where you deal with Neurosis, psychosis, that's what you generally think of when you think of going to a therapist.

00:21:43.000 They're generally a clinical psychologist.

00:21:45.000 Not always, there can be counseling and others, but generally it's clinical.

00:21:51.000 And then I also completed the core in behavioral medicine, which is essentially medical psychology.

00:21:57.000 It's a point at which your physiology and your psychology merge and interact and they influence one another.

00:22:04.000 And that can be a profound influence, particularly with chronic disease management.

00:22:09.000 And then when I finished school, I did a postdoctoral fellowship in forensic psychology.

00:22:15.000 So now I was dealing with psychology and the law.

00:22:18.000 And one of the things that I was often called on to do, from a forensic psychological standpoint, is make a determination between the irresistible impulse And the impulse not resisted.

00:22:35.000 And there's just a few words that differentiate that, but it's often the difference between the death penalty or life in prison and going home.

00:22:48.000 An irresistible impulse, you become involuntary.

00:22:54.000 You're a passenger.

00:22:54.000 This is an irresistible impulse.

00:22:56.000 You could not resist it.

00:22:57.000 You're now a passenger.

00:22:59.000 You're back in row 12 of the bus.

00:23:02.000 An impulse not resisted, you're driving the bus.

00:23:06.000 You choose not to resist this impulse.

00:23:09.000 And a big part of my determination in those situations was, did this person have the capacity to know the difference between right and wrong?

00:23:18.000 And if someone is a pedophile, if they are aroused by Children, for example.

00:23:32.000 Okay, clearly a deviant behavior, right?

00:23:35.000 Unhealthy, sickness, no doubt about it.

00:23:39.000 Do they know the difference between right and wrong?

00:23:42.000 Do they know this is wrong, but they act on it anyway?

00:23:49.000 Now, to me, if they know it's wrong, then they have the ability to raise their hand and say, I have this problem.

00:23:59.000 I need help with this.

00:24:01.000 I need controls built in around me for this.

00:24:05.000 I need monitoring.

00:24:06.000 I need help with this.

00:24:07.000 I have trouble with this.

00:24:10.000 And if they fail to do that, now I've got a problem with their behavior.

00:24:16.000 But if they say, Look, I have a problem here, and I realize that I don't want to feel these things, but I do, and I know it's wrong, so I'm identifying myself.

00:24:28.000 I'm going to mental health professionals.

00:24:30.000 I'm identifying myself before I act on this.

00:24:33.000 And there are many pedophiles that do that, by the way.

00:24:35.000 They do raise their hand and say, they don't come out publicly, but they go to a therapist and say, my God, what is wrong with me?

00:24:43.000 And they get help.

00:24:44.000 So somebody that feels that and knows the difference between right and wrong.

00:24:49.000 And one of the real simple ways to figure that out is if they hide it.

00:24:54.000 Because if they hide it, they must know it's wrong.

00:24:59.000 So if they don't hide it, then they might not know it's wrong.

00:25:03.000 So you can look at their behavior and see, did they go to great lengths to hide this, to cover this up?

00:25:08.000 If they do, they must know it's wrong.

00:25:10.000 So I was on your show a couple of weeks ago, and one of the things we talked about was the Jussie Smollett alleged fake hate crime.

00:25:16.000 And one of the topics that came up was the possibility that we Americans may value victimhood too highly.

00:25:23.000 We are all sympathetic to victims.

00:25:24.000 We want to make sure the victims are taken care of.

00:25:26.000 But do you think that Americans are treating victimhood as a sort of medal of honor at this point?

00:25:32.000 Well, it depends.

00:25:37.000 If someone is truly in an imbalance of power and they are exploited, I have great compassion for that person.

00:25:51.000 But you have to make a decision, and maybe an investigation, to determine if that's really the case.

00:26:00.000 Or are they laying down in front of the bus?

00:26:04.000 They could both get run over.

00:26:07.000 But did one of them go lay down in front of the bus?

00:26:10.000 Or was one sitting in a cafe and the bus came over the curb and ran over them?

00:26:14.000 They both got run over by the bus, but is there a difference?

00:26:17.000 And to me, there is a difference.

00:26:21.000 It's a difference between being a victim and a volunteer.

00:26:25.000 There are victims that, despite their best efforts, they are exploited.

00:26:31.000 And then there are those who seem to volunteer for it and take great pride in it, and it becomes their identity.

00:26:37.000 I have much less compassion for those people, and I think there are some of those people, and it becomes who they are.

00:26:44.000 And they milk it for everything they can.

00:26:47.000 And I'm not talking about hoaxes.

00:26:48.000 No, but people that truly become victimized in some way, they get on the short end of an imbalance of power.

00:26:58.000 But can I sort of change the subject for a minute?

00:27:01.000 Sure, please.

00:27:02.000 This is something that really bothers me.

00:27:05.000 And you were on the show a couple of weeks ago.

00:27:07.000 Thank you very much for doing that.

00:27:10.000 And you were on there kind of as the sole voice on your side of the issue with four or five other voices that were kind of counterpoint voices.

00:27:27.000 And I thought that we had a very respectful, intelligent conversation.

00:27:38.000 And I talked to the audience afterwards in studio, I looked at the message boards afterwards, and I thought people on both sides of the issue were a little bit dumbstruck by what an intelligent, respectful exchange of ideas took place, even though there were some diametrically opposed positions.

00:28:04.000 And I walked backstage, and you were back there with a couple of those people that you have debated before.

00:28:15.000 You are 180 degrees out from where they are on positions.

00:28:20.000 And y'all were laughing and talking and talking about some personal issues and just really kind of enjoying some personal time together.

00:28:33.000 What has happened that that doesn't happen anymore?

00:28:38.000 You were on different sides of issues about as diametrically opposed as you can get.

00:28:46.000 You said your piece, respectfully.

00:28:49.000 You didn't interrupt anybody.

00:28:51.000 They didn't interrupt you.

00:28:52.000 It was a good conversation, and then y'all were backstage treating each other like decent human beings.

00:28:58.000 Why doesn't that happen anymore?

00:29:01.000 You guys did it.

00:29:05.000 Well, again, my opinion on this is that I do think that there is currency in victimhood, and even in public debate, if you can claim that you've somehow been harmed by the other person, then we grant you a sort of patina of more credit.

00:29:17.000 You're treated with more respect.

00:29:18.000 So, if you're in just an honest debate and everybody sort of expects, you know, understands the rules of the debate, you treat each other with respect, somebody wins, somebody loses, or maybe you just have a discussion, then There's no real reward there.

00:29:31.000 But politically speaking, I think we live in a time where if you can claim that someone was mean to you on stage or you claim that you were offended by somebody, that there is real currency in that.

00:29:41.000 I was pointing this out with regard to, for example, the vice president, Mike Pence, and Joe Biden, the former vice president.

00:29:45.000 So a couple of weeks ago, Joe Biden did a speech in Nebraska where he suggested that Mike Pence was a decent guy.

00:29:51.000 And he was immediately hit by a wave of people who said, well, Mike Pence isn't a decent guy.

00:29:55.000 He disagrees with me on some LGBT issues.

00:29:57.000 This would be Cynthia Nixon, the former gubernatorial candidate in New York. 1.00

00:30:01.000 And Joe Biden then backed down.

00:30:02.000 And then he said, well, I guess Mike Pence isn't a decent guy because we disagree on those issues.

00:30:06.000 Again, I think that the reason that he did that is not because he doesn't actually think Pence is a decent guy.

00:30:10.000 He knows Pence.

00:30:11.000 I think that he probably thinks Pence is a decent guy.

00:30:13.000 But if you can pretend that there is a lack of character on the other side, it allows you to avoid having the kind of productive discussions that bring unity and there's a lot of money to be made and a lot of political hay to be made in the polarization rather than in the reasonable discussion, I think.

00:30:27.000 Well, here's what I think about that, since you asked.

00:30:32.000 You were going to ask, I can tell.

00:30:36.000 I don't drink or smoke dope or take drugs.

00:30:40.000 I never have because, as I said, everybody makes decisions in their lives, like what are we going to have for lunch today, where are we going to go on vacation.

00:30:49.000 But then there's another level of decision we make, and I call those life decisions.

00:30:53.000 Life decisions you make one time, and that's it.

00:30:56.000 That's it for your life.

00:30:58.000 Like, you make a decision you're not going to steal.

00:31:02.000 Like, so, you make that decision maybe in the third grade, you know, and your parents tell you, or you get caught stealing or something, and so you decide you're not going to do that anymore.

00:31:11.000 And that's a life decision.

00:31:13.000 I'm not going to steal.

00:31:14.000 So you don't wake up in the morning when you're 30 years old and say, oh man, I'm in a rush and I'm short on cash.

00:31:21.000 Do I want to go by the ATM or knock over that 7-Eleven?

00:31:24.000 You don't have that debate because you've made a life decision.

00:31:27.000 I don't steal.

00:31:28.000 So you're going to go by the ATM.

00:31:30.000 You're not going to rob the 7-Eleven.

00:31:32.000 And so we make life decisions.

00:31:35.000 I made a life decision early on that I wasn't going to drink or do drugs because of what I'd seen it do to my dad, who I thought was a really good, hard-working man.

00:31:44.000 I saw what it did to him.

00:31:46.000 I don't have any problem with people who do, in moderation.

00:31:51.000 But one of my best friends is Ron White, the blue-collar comedian.

00:31:56.000 Now, he smokes dope every day.

00:32:01.000 And he drinks every day.

00:32:03.000 And I've loaded him into the car and taken him home and poured him out on the floor before.

00:32:07.000 And people say, how can these two be friends?

00:32:10.000 Here's Mr. Straight, doesn't do any of that.

00:32:12.000 And here's Mr. Never does anything but that.

00:32:16.000 And my answer to that is always the same.

00:32:19.000 You don't have to love everything about somebody to love them.

00:32:25.000 You don't have to love all their behavior to love them.

00:32:28.000 I wish he didn't do that, but he does.

00:32:31.000 But he's also very loyal.

00:32:35.000 He's a great father.

00:32:36.000 He's really fun to be around.

00:32:41.000 He's an intelligent guy, interesting to talk to, very respectful of my wife and kids.

00:32:49.000 He's just a really great guy.

00:32:51.000 I don't like this about him, but you don't have to like everything about somebody to like them.

00:32:57.000 So why can they not have a difference of opinion on an issue and you still recognize they have many redeeming qualities?

00:33:06.000 If I had a brain tumor and the surgeon that was coming in to save my life had different political views, But this was the guy that could save my life?

00:33:20.000 Would I go, no, don't take this tumor out of my head.

00:33:24.000 I don't like what you believe politically. 0.97

00:33:26.000 Hell no. 0.92

00:33:28.000 Fix me.

00:33:28.000 I just don't understand the intolerance that we now seem to have for each other instead of recognizing that we can differ on issues and still recognize that there's redeeming qualities in each other.

00:33:47.000 And I don't say that politically.

00:33:48.000 I say it to both sides of the aisle.

00:33:52.000 I just don't understand.

00:33:53.000 It didn't seem to used to be that way.

00:33:55.000 Well, actually, I want to ask you about that in just one second.

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00:34:58.000 So, I want to ask you about that.

00:35:00.000 You know, you talk about how you can love people without loving everything about them, and obviously that's true.

00:35:06.000 There are really two questions I want to ask about.

00:35:07.000 The first one is, in order to love a person, does there have to be at least some sense of shared values?

00:35:13.000 Meaning that, you know, How much do you have to love about the person in order for it to be over the tipping point?

00:35:20.000 I'm not going to love somebody from Al Qaeda or the Taliban, obviously.

00:35:23.000 I'm not going to love neo-Nazis.

00:35:24.000 It's going to be very difficult for me to love those people.

00:35:27.000 And it's not just a political disagreement.

00:35:29.000 There are root values that are in disagreement.

00:35:31.000 What root values do you think that people need to share in order for there to be a bedrock for love to grow?

00:35:36.000 Well, I think that you've just identified it, its root values.

00:35:41.000 I mean, I'm not going to hang out with Hitler because he plays a hell of a game of golf. 0.99

00:35:46.000 I could give a shit about his game of golf, right? 0.99

00:35:49.000 I mean, everything about him is offensive to my sensibilities. 0.99

00:35:53.000 So that is overwhelmingly, we are just different people with different core values.

00:36:01.000 And that's not what I'm talking about.

00:36:03.000 If you're talking about somebody from Al-Qaeda, if you're talking about somebody that is a child molester, and just everything they stand for is offensive to your sensibilities, the gap is too wide.

00:36:20.000 You can't get a bridge to span that.

00:36:24.000 But that's generally not the case.

00:36:28.000 If you sit down with people You know, for example, if I'm negotiating with people, whether it's a business deal I'm negotiating, or if I'm trying to broker a peace between a couple that is really at odds with each other and on the brink of divorce, I always do the same thing.

00:36:50.000 I say, first, let's talk about what we agree about.

00:36:55.000 I know you came here to resolve your differences, but first, I want to make a list of what we agree about.

00:37:02.000 Because if we do that, we might just find that what we disagree about is less than we realize.

00:37:10.000 So let's talk about what we agree about.

00:37:13.000 And we make that list.

00:37:15.000 And if that list is really small, then maybe that gap is too wide.

00:37:19.000 But if that list is made up of those root values and core values, like we both want our children to do well, You know, we both love these kids.

00:37:30.000 We both want certain things.

00:37:33.000 You have a good list of root values.

00:37:36.000 And then you look at what we disagree about, and you realize, well, maybe we have different currencies here.

00:37:45.000 Uh, maybe I can give you more of what you want, and you give me more of what I want, because you value something more than I do, and I value something more than you do.

00:37:53.000 I'm willing, this is a one for me and a ten for you.

00:37:56.000 I can give you that, and that's a two for you and a ten for me, so it's an easy give for you, but a big get for me.

00:38:03.000 If you get people where they're looking for ways to come together instead of looking for ways to come apart, then you can begin to make some headway.

00:38:11.000 And that's all I'm saying.

00:38:12.000 We don't seem to have a dialogue.

00:38:14.000 Well, and I think that that's what I'm getting to is I think that the incentive structure is aligned so much right now politically for people to make gains with their own side by drawing distinction.

00:38:24.000 So you're saying that, you know, you draw points of unity and that's how you get together.

00:38:27.000 But politics isn't about How you draw together.

00:38:30.000 Politics, right now at least, is about how you draw distinction with the other side so that you convince people to come to your side.

00:38:36.000 And the easiest way to do that is to attack them on a character level, not on a policy level.

00:38:39.000 If you admit that the other side is basically good-hearted, has good intentions, that they mainly want good things even if we disagree about how to get there, well then people might side with that person.

00:38:48.000 But if you say that that person is a racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, if you say that person is a Nazi, if you say that person has no tolerance, Then it's a lot easier to get people to side with you after all.

00:38:57.000 What are they going to do?

00:38:57.000 Side with this person who you just characterized as Hitler?

00:39:00.000 So it's an easy, it's an easy political game.

00:39:02.000 It's one I really object to in a strong way, but I think that that's, I think that's the easiest political currency out there right now.

00:39:10.000 Yeah.

00:39:10.000 And what I really find offensive is when you see people backstage that treat each other with dignity and respect, And then walk out on stage and put on a completely different persona.

00:39:26.000 That is really hypocritical and disingenuous to me.

00:39:30.000 Now I don't trust either one of them. 0.90

00:39:31.000 Yeah, totally agree with that.

00:39:32.000 So I want to ask you about changing people.

00:39:34.000 So that's sort of the second question.

00:39:37.000 You're talking about shared values.

00:39:40.000 You've said before that you think people change.

00:39:42.000 But does that mean that you can change them?

00:39:44.000 Or does it have to be an internally driven thing?

00:39:46.000 Because so much of politics and life is about determining whether you ought to accept somebody for the flaws that they have or whether you ought to expend effort in the attempt to change them.

00:39:56.000 So take, for example, your friend.

00:39:58.000 Was there a certain point where you said, you know what, I've given him a lecture 20 times about not drinking and not doing drugs.

00:40:05.000 He's not doing it.

00:40:05.000 I can either take him as he is or I can leave him.

00:40:07.000 When do you make that call as to whether somebody is changeable or not?

00:40:10.000 Well, I think when you disagree, the goal needs to be that you're heard and understood.

00:40:20.000 not that you win, and you're not And certainly, I think that's true at a personal level.

00:40:29.000 If you're in a relationship, certainly if it's a husband and wife, and your goal is to win, what does that mean?

00:40:37.000 That means that your partner is now a loser.

00:40:42.000 And when people lose, how do they feel? 0.99

00:40:47.000 They feel like a loser.

00:40:49.000 They feel like they lost. 0.80

00:40:50.000 Do you want your husband or wife to feel like a loser?

00:40:54.000 Why would you want that? 0.97

00:40:58.000 If instead you say, look, my goal here is I want you to hear me, I want you to understand me, and then I'll shut up.

00:41:08.000 And across time, if you prove to be sensitive to that, and you try to find some middle ground with me, and I try to find some middle ground with you, Then this relationship is going to have a long-term history.

00:41:24.000 If not, then maybe it won't.

00:41:27.000 But my goal is not going to be to grind you down where you finally say, OK, OK, you're right, you're right, you're right.

00:41:33.000 You've got to decide if you want to be right or you want to be happy.

00:41:38.000 And being right comes with a lot of resentment from those that you've proven wrong.

00:41:45.000 And that doesn't seem to advance personal agendas or political agendas.

00:41:49.000 I mean, and that's really the question.

00:41:50.000 Is there a difference between personal interactions and political interactions in the sense that when it comes to political interactions, there is an actual result that is apart from the two sides, meaning that there will be a law, for example, or there will be a public policy that at the end of the day is promulgated.

00:42:04.000 I mean, in my marriage, my goal is to preserve the marriage because I married a person with whom I share values.

00:42:08.000 The marriage is more important than anything else that is on the table.

00:42:11.000 And that means that I'm willing to subsume fact in favor of feeling when it comes to my wife.

00:42:16.000 This is true with my parents and my siblings.

00:42:18.000 When it comes to politics, where you're determining the rules that govern a society, or how we ought to see reality itself in some cases, what should be the mix there between facts and feelings?

00:42:27.000 Well, I think that people say politics are local, not national.

00:42:35.000 I disagree with that.

00:42:36.000 I think politics are personal.

00:42:38.000 I don't think they're local, I think they're personal.

00:42:40.000 Now, people can deny that, but I think people sit down and say, What's in this for me?

00:42:47.000 How's this going to affect my family?

00:42:48.000 How's this going to affect me?

00:42:50.000 Whether it's a law about taxes or whatever, how is, if something's going to change the mix of the community or it's going to change laws about how long you work or retirement or taxation, whatever, people may not want to say it, But I think they look at it and say, you know, how's this going to affect me?

00:43:19.000 And so I think it gets down very much like a relationship.

00:43:23.000 I think they look at it in terms of its personal impact, and once they decide that they can live with whatever that outcome is, then they start to think about others.

00:43:37.000 You know, first it's survival, then it's actualization, then you start You gotta survive first and then you can start caring for others and taking care of them.

00:43:48.000 And I'm not saying that people don't have genuine empathy and concern for others, but I guess the thing that I would really want people to do, I believe knowledge is power.

00:44:08.000 I think knowing The true, unspun facts of a situation are critically important.

00:44:17.000 And I'm just not sure that many people have access to that in this day and time.

00:44:26.000 I don't know where to get unspun news today.

00:44:32.000 I don't know where to get it.

00:44:33.000 Yeah, and I'm not sure that it's even possible.

00:44:36.000 I mean, I think there are people who are striving for it, but I think everybody has their own cognitive biases that act themselves out in real time, no matter how we discuss the issues.

00:44:44.000 When it comes to the difference between personal and political, I'll give you an example of where I think that, for example, there's a gap.

00:44:48.000 So, on the issue of transgenderism, I've been very outspoken.

00:44:51.000 I think that a biological man is a biological man.

00:44:54.000 I think a biological woman is a biological woman. 1.00

00:44:56.000 There are people who are intersex, but that does not obviate the categories of male and female.

00:45:01.000 I do not think that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a man. 0.99

00:45:04.000 And if a man wants to identify as a woman, I think that that is factually incorrect. 0.98

00:45:10.000 My view of that is that that's a mental disorder.

00:45:12.000 Now, if I'm at dinner with a person who is transgender, I will call them by their preferred pronoun because what's the point in offending the person The person's still a person. 0.99

00:45:20.000 I wouldn't go out of my way to insult somebody who I'm at dinner with.

00:45:23.000 But if I'm speaking publicly about Caitlyn Jenner, for example, I will say that Caitlyn Jenner is a man, and I will call him by his biological pronouns.

00:45:30.000 The reason for that is because in the dinner situation, my target audience is the person with whom I'm speaking.

00:45:35.000 That's the person with whom I'm forming a relationship.

00:45:37.000 In the political world, the target audience is not Caitlyn Jenner.

00:45:40.000 I'm not speaking to Caitlyn Jenner.

00:45:41.000 I'm speaking to the audience writ large about a scientific issue that has some ramifications for public policy.

00:45:47.000 I'm not sure how to bridge that gap when people suggest that we ought to discuss public policy as though it were personal.

00:45:54.000 We should pretend that scientific facts don't exist in order to not offend, for example.

00:46:00.000 Well, I think what you're talking about is the difference between being genuine and being brutally honest.

00:46:11.000 There is a time and a place for everything.

00:46:15.000 And the time and the place for you to air your scientific-based political agenda doesn't have to be at dinner.

00:46:27.000 I mean, there's a time where that fits, and there's a time where you're in that mode, and you can say what you want.

00:46:40.000 But is that appropriate at dinner?

00:46:43.000 And if you feel uncomfortable with...

00:46:47.000 not being consistent with your scientific belief, then don't get in that situation.

00:46:52.000 But it's kind of like my wife tells me at home, don't you Dr. Phil me.

00:46:59.000 You do that at home.

00:47:00.000 Don't you do that up there.

00:47:01.000 Don't you do that here.

00:47:02.000 You know, there's a time and a place for everything.

00:47:05.000 And I think you've chosen very well to say, I'm not going to be offensive to this person's belief system here.

00:47:14.000 But you put me in a public forum and ask me to take a position, I'm going to be true to my belief system here.

00:47:20.000 That doesn't mean I have to be offensive to this person's belief system there.

00:47:24.000 So in a second, I want to ask you about your religious worldview, because religion is obviously a great part of how people become happy in certain social science studies.

00:47:33.000 I want to ask you what your factors are for happiness.

00:47:35.000 How do you become a happy person, and does religion play a part in that?

00:47:38.000 But first, let's talk about your emergency food storage.

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00:48:41.000 So let's talk a little bit about how to become a happy person.

00:48:45.000 So there's a lot of focus on happiness, particularly in Western civilization.

00:48:48.000 The traditional religious worldview has been your happiness is of no consequence, basically, that you have duty, and duty is what motivates you.

00:48:55.000 And if you fill your duty, then you'll be happy.

00:48:56.000 In the typical sort of Aristotelian view, if you act in accordance with virtue, you'll be happy.

00:49:01.000 We in Western society seem to think that happiness is Sometimes material goods, sometimes it is, you know, kind of the joy of the moment.

00:49:09.000 How do you define happiness, and what should we be aiming for?

00:49:12.000 Yeah, well, a friend of mine has a poster that says, money won't buy happiness, but it'll get you where it is.

00:49:20.000 It'll get you real close to where it is.

00:49:21.000 I think it's very individual, and I think it comes down not only to how you define it, but how you Experience and express it.

00:49:37.000 I mean, because happiness is not just a definition, it's experiential.

00:49:45.000 I mean, let's put on our Gestalt hats for a minute and say, what's our experiential happiness?

00:49:53.000 And, you know, to me, I start using synonyms like fulfillment and peace and joy.

00:50:05.000 And, you know, I'm what my wife Robin calls emotionally constricted sometimes.

00:50:14.000 I mean, something good will happen and, you know, she looks like...

00:50:18.000 You know, Snoopy dancing in the Peanuts cartoon, you know?

00:50:20.000 She's like, hey!

00:50:22.000 And she looks at me and says, give me something!

00:50:25.000 You know, come on, give me something here!

00:50:27.000 And I might be feeling all warm inside, and it's like, okay, I've achieved that, I've clicked that off, I feel great about this.

00:50:39.000 And, you know, for me, happiness is is a real sense of peace and accomplishment and that kind of sense of having climbed this mountain and done that, and I'm very happy about that.

00:50:57.000 But I may not be as expressive as she is or the next person is, and I think it's different I think it's different for everybody.

00:51:07.000 And for some people, they define that with spiritual awakenings and spiritual evolution.

00:51:16.000 Some people achieve it through a sense that they're really being altruistic in some way.

00:51:24.000 Some people define it materialistically.

00:51:26.000 And I think it changes as we change.

00:51:30.000 Things make me what I call happy or fulfilled now.

00:51:35.000 That didn't have that effect on me 30 years ago.

00:51:42.000 I've got this kind of ruler that I've made.

00:51:46.000 I roll it out on the floor and it goes from zero to 83, which is the life expectancy.

00:51:54.000 And I have people sometimes walk along it and stand on their age.

00:51:59.000 And when I walk along it and stand on my age and look over my shoulder, There's a whole lot of white behind me and not very much ahead of me. 0.66

00:52:09.000 So now, having good health and being able to enjoy what's around me now, my kids who are grown and my grandkids, I mean, to me, spending time with them and having the health and cognition to enjoy it, that, to me, is really fulfillment and happiness, and that, to me, really fills me up.

00:52:36.000 Thirty years ago, I took most of that for granted, so it didn't have an effect on me, so I think it changes across time, and I know now One of the things that gives me the most fulfillment is I love giving a voice to people that don't have it.

00:52:56.000 So, if I'm working with a story on Dr. Phil that has children caught in a crossfire, In a custody battle or something, and they're just being torn apart and used as a rope in a tug-of-war, and I can come in and stop that and get these kids out of this crossfire and give them the voice they don't have.

00:53:18.000 I might go home tired that night, but it's a good tired.

00:53:22.000 I feel good about what I've done.

00:53:24.000 This was a good thing, and if millions of people watch that, and a percentage of them won't do that because they saw the pain in these kids' eyes and I realize I've impacted those people, then that's a good target at the end of the day and that's a joy for me.

00:53:40.000 So, you know, sometimes it's tied to achievement, sometimes it's tied to something else, but I think it has a lot to do with peace and fulfillment.

00:53:53.000 So, I want to ask you about something that seems to be making a lot of people deeply unhappy, and that is social media.

00:53:58.000 Do you think that social media is a net benefit or a net detriment to human beings?

00:54:02.000 Were we ready for this machine that we created for ourselves?

00:54:04.000 And I'm talking from the perspective of someone who's extraordinarily active on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and all the rest, but the science tends to suggest that this stuff may not be particularly good for us.

00:54:15.000 Where do you come down on the social media?

00:54:16.000 Well, I think we have to...

00:54:18.000 It's here, so where I come down on it is, deal with it because it's here.

00:54:23.000 Here's what I think.

00:54:25.000 When I started Dr. Phil, the first text message had not been sent.

00:54:30.000 There was no Twitter, there was no Facebook, there were no smartphones.

00:54:34.000 So I'm dealing with things now that didn't even exist when I started.

00:54:40.000 But I'm also dealing with kids who used to come home and their mother said, sit down, you can't talk right now, Dr. Phil's on.

00:54:47.000 Now they're coming on to the show and their kids are saying, they're saying, hey, can't talk right now, Dr. Phil's on.

00:54:55.000 And I realize that we have a whole new set of influences on kids, and they have access to information that I didn't have when I was growing up, that's racing them along the evolutionary continuum, in terms of relationships and emotion, and their access to bullies and predators and all that we didn't have to deal with in my generation.

00:55:25.000 If you were getting bullied at school, you went home, it stopped.

00:55:28.000 Now you go home, the cyber bullies just follow you home and you get online and they're bullying you at home.

00:55:34.000 So it's here, we have to deal with it.

00:55:39.000 I was invited to testify on Capitol Hill.

00:55:45.000 on the reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, and they were asking, should they allocate money to the curriculum to deal with cyberbullying?

00:55:57.000 And I was there to say, not just yes, but hell yes, because teachers were saying, it doesn't happen on campus, so we don't, it's not our job.

00:56:06.000 And I was saying, well, it is your job, because these are the kids that are doing it, and you're watching these kids throughout the day.

00:56:16.000 What we have to start doing is preparing our children to deal with the social media world, because if we have a generation that grows up with the need to be loved by strangers, we're creating a vulnerable generation that is giving their power away to people they don't even know.

00:56:41.000 If your mood is driven by how many likes a picture you post gets, I've talked to kids that they'll put up a picture and it doesn't get 10% of the likes the last one did, and their moods cycle down.

00:56:56.000 I've talked to parents whose kids were cyber-bullied to death. 0.96

00:57:00.000 We hate you. 1.00

00:57:01.000 Go kill yourself. 1.00

00:57:03.000 And they walk in, and their daughters hung themselves in the closet, and they're dead. 1.00

00:57:06.000 And they go look at their social media, and there's 75 posts there. 1.00

00:57:10.000 Just kill yourself. 0.99

00:57:10.000 We don't want to see you tomorrow. 0.99

00:57:14.000 We have to prepare our children to realize this is not the World Wide Web, it's the Wild Wild Web.

00:57:20.000 There's no control, there's no enforcement, there's no accountability.

00:57:24.000 So we have to inoculate our kids so they realize this isn't the real world.

00:57:31.000 These are keyboard bullies.

00:57:32.000 They wouldn't say that to you in the elevator.

00:57:35.000 But they'll say it to you with the anonymity of a keyboard.

00:57:38.000 Do you think they're starting to bleed over?

00:57:39.000 Meaning that, you know, there's always been this sort of feeling on Twitter or Facebook that there's the online world and then there's the real world.

00:57:46.000 And the online world is not real, and when you turn off the computer, life gets better.

00:57:50.000 But what I'm starting to see is that the crudity of the online world is bleeding over into the real world.

00:57:54.000 People are treating each other worse in the real world as a result of them being accustomed to treat each other badly online.

00:58:00.000 I hope not.

00:58:01.000 I mean, I haven't seen any research about that.

00:58:06.000 I'm seeing it get worse online, and I'm seeing, just this last weekend, a few weekends ago, sorry, I flew into North Carolina to meet with the family of Shanann Watts, who

00:58:30.000 Chris Watts, the family annihilator that killed his wife and two babies, Bella and Sissy, you recall that story, he had just given a real confession about what he actually did in killing her and those two children.

00:58:52.000 And the family wanted to sit down and talk, and I went in and sat down and talked with Susan and Frank and Frankie Jr., her brother.

00:59:00.000 And one of the biggest problems they have in their grief right now are the Internet trolls.

00:59:07.000 There are trolls that are opening accounts in their daughter's name and sending messages, like, so they get up and get on the Internet, and there's a message from their daughter Shanann.

00:59:19.000 That says, I'm burning in hell, why did you do this to me?

00:59:23.000 Things like that, just to torture them. 0.89

00:59:26.000 And trolls accusing them of things, and saying they are the real murderers, and all this stuff. 1.00

00:59:34.000 People, they're just pure, sick, evil people. 0.93

00:59:40.000 And that wouldn't happen if there wasn't social media, so that's a real downside to it. 0.96

00:59:47.000 And there's no enforcement of that.

00:59:49.000 And there's got to be some way to find those people and hold them accountable for that, because You know, some people that don't react well to that, it can actually push them over the edge and be suicidal.

01:00:04.000 So, some of it is out of control, and I don't know what the answer is, but it is out of control.

01:00:10.000 So, when it comes to how to train your kids for this sort of stuff, you deal with kids on a regular basis on this show.

01:00:18.000 What are sort of the rules for the road in teaching your kids how to deal with a world that seems like it may be increasingly chaotic?

01:00:24.000 Well, you have to talk to them about it, number one.

01:00:26.000 Look, kids have the knowledge but not the wisdom to handle this Internet and the World Wide Web.

01:00:32.000 Adults have the wisdom but not the knowledge. 0.93

01:00:35.000 Those kids can navigate around there, my God, with three clicks, they can have you anywhere and anything looking at whatever.

01:00:42.000 You know, we're in there trying to figure out how to get this camera to point the other way for 30 minutes, and by then, you know, they've gone around the world.

01:00:50.000 So they've got the knowledge, we need to provide the wisdom, and you've got to sit down and talk to them.

01:00:55.000 And you remember, well, you're too young, but there used to be these ads that would come on at 10 o'clock at night, and it would say, it's 10 o'clock, do you know where your children are?

01:01:03.000 Do you remember those?

01:01:04.000 A little before my time, I think.

01:01:07.000 Well, it used to be, it'd just come on at 10 o'clock, it'd just go, bing, it's 10 o'clock, do you know where your kids are?

01:01:13.000 With the internet, It's always 10 o'clock.

01:01:17.000 You need to know where your kids are.

01:01:19.000 And parents need to find out what platforms their kids are going to.

01:01:25.000 And they say, well, I don't want to invade their privacy.

01:01:28.000 My advice?

01:01:28.000 Invade their privacy.

01:01:30.000 Get a screen name.

01:01:32.000 Get in that group.

01:01:35.000 See if your child's being groomed.

01:01:36.000 They may not notice it, but you need to notice it. 0.82

01:01:39.000 See if somebody's talking, trying to get your daughter out the bedroom window, and she thinks it's another 13-year-old, and it's really a 40-year-old pedophile, predator out there.

01:01:50.000 You need to monitor.

01:01:52.000 You need to know where they're going.

01:01:54.000 And you need to talk to them and show, when an article is in the paper about Someone being abducted by somebody they met, you need to show them.

01:02:02.000 I'm not trying to make them paranoid or make them think the world is a scary place, but they need to be situationally aware.

01:02:09.000 You need to talk to them about that.

01:02:10.000 And if they become obsessed, then you need to get them to unplug.

01:02:15.000 And if they're spending, if all you ever see is the top of their head and their thumbs are going like this, you need to limit the time that they're on there.

01:02:22.000 And you can put child controls on there, but they'll defeat those before you set them up. 0.84

01:02:27.000 You need to limit their time, and you need to know where they're going, and you need to monitor that so you can protect them from themselves and from others.

01:02:35.000 So I have one final question for you.

01:02:37.000 You've done 3,000 shows.

01:02:37.000 I want to ask if there's one particular episode that sticks out to you, but first, If you want to hear Dr. Phil's answer, you have to be a Daily Wire subscriber.

01:02:45.000 To subscribe, head on over to dailywire.com, click subscribe, and you can hear the end of our conversation there.

01:02:51.000 Well, Dr. Phil, thanks so much for stopping by.

01:02:53.000 Folks, you need to check out Dr. Phil's podcast.

01:02:55.000 It's called Phil in the Blanks.

01:02:56.000 Go check it out right now.

01:02:57.000 And of course, everybody watches your show, so I don't even need to plug Dr. Phil.

01:03:00.000 It's just, I mean, everyone knows about it.

01:03:02.000 Thanks so much for stopping by.

01:03:02.000 I really appreciate your time.

01:03:03.000 Thanks so much.

01:03:04.000 The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special is produced by Jonathan Hay.

01:03:13.000 Executive producer Jeremy Boring.

01:03:15.000 Associate producer Mathis Glover.

01:03:17.000 Edited by Donovan Fowler.

01:03:18.000 Audio is mixed by Dylan Case.

01:03:20.000 Hair and makeup is by Jeswa Olvera.

01:03:22.000 Title graphics by Cynthia Angulo.

01:03:24.000 The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special is a Daily Wire production.

The Ben Shapiro Show - March 17, 2019

Dr. Phil McGraw | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 42

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