The Ben Shapiro Show - Is A New Civil War Coming? | Ep. 1346

00:00:00.000 A new poll from the University of Virginia shows that huge swaths of Americans despise each other.

00:00:05.000 But does that matter?

00:00:06.000 Plus, Anthony Fauci continues to preach utter panic and the Democrats stumble toward an agreement on blowout spending.

00:00:11.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

00:00:11.000 This is the Ben Shapiro Show.

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00:00:25.000 We'll get to all the news in just one moment.

00:00:27.000 Here is your morning report on inflation.

00:00:29.000 Inflation's already running hot, you know this.

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00:01:32.000 Alrighty, it's very difficult to look at the current political situation in the United States and not see that the country seems to be falling apart.

00:01:37.000 There have been a lot of reasons that have been proposed for this.

00:01:40.000 In The Right Side of History, my book from a couple of years ago, I proposed that essentially we had lost a lot of common threads that bound us together in the social fabric.

00:01:49.000 We've lost a lot of the institutions.

00:01:50.000 Churches no longer have the same pull that they once did.

00:01:52.000 Social organizations no longer have the same pull that they once did.

00:01:55.000 And we don't have the same sort of foundational principles.

00:01:58.000 And we need to rebuild those foundational principles.

00:02:00.000 And then there are those who have suggested that it's due to purely Obama or purely due to Trump.

00:02:04.000 Or maybe it's just due to the fact that capitalism has isolated us, right?

00:02:08.000 That's the argument of both the left and sort of the nationalist populist movement.

00:02:11.000 There are a lot of answers that have been provided.

00:02:13.000 But one thing is pretty clear to everyone and that is political polarization is now at a modern high.

00:02:18.000 We've not been this polarized as a society since at least the 1960s and maybe more so since the 1960s.

00:02:24.000 Which would mean that we haven't been this polarized probably since the Civil War, if you actually look at it statistically, in terms of how many Americans really, really, really despise each other.

00:02:32.000 And that is what a new poll out of the University of Virginia Center for Politics says.

00:02:36.000 According to the University of Virginia Center for Politics, the new poll shows that majorities of both Trump and Biden voters express support for several different elements of the bipartisan infrastructure and reconciliation bills being debated in Congress.

00:02:49.000 More importantly, majorities, often large majorities, of both Biden and Trump voters express some form of distrust for voters, elected officials, and media sources they associate with the other side.

00:02:58.000 A strong majority of Trump voters see no real difference between Democrats and Socialists.

00:03:02.000 A strong majority of Biden voters at least somewhat agree that there is no difference between Republicans and Fascists.

00:03:07.000 That's sort of a problem.

00:03:08.000 And so the reality is that many of the things that the Democrats are proposing are not necessarily socialist.

00:03:13.000 They're just big spending social Democrat kind of stuff from Northern Europe.

00:03:17.000 That is not quite the same thing as complete nationalization of all resources.

00:03:20.000 Social democracy essentially posits that capitalism ought to provide the basis for the economy, but that we ought to redistribute a lot of the gains of capitalism.

00:03:29.000 And that in certain areas, we ought to nationalize, right?

00:03:31.000 In certain areas, they are socialistic.

00:03:33.000 In certain areas, they are not.

00:03:34.000 It's sort of a sliding scale, in other words.

00:03:36.000 But the notion that Democrats are like full out and out nationalized all industry socialists, that's true for some of them, like Bernie Sanders, but it probably isn't true for the majority of Democrats who at least pay lip service to the notion that you have a right to private property and that you should enjoy most of your rights to private property.

00:03:51.000 And most, I would say, Democrats other than the squad.

00:03:54.000 are still in line with the notion you should be able to own a business and you should be able to reap the benefits of that business, at least to a certain extent.

00:03:59.000 And the arguments are over to what extent and how strong the regulation should be.

00:04:03.000 Now, the momentum inside the Democratic Party is certainly toward the far left.

00:04:06.000 There's no question about that.

00:04:07.000 And the continuous growth of regulation and government has drawn us ever closer to, as Frederick Hayek would say, the road to serfdom.

00:04:14.000 But that does not mean that all Democrats, particularly Democratic voters, many Democratic politicians maybe, most Democratic voters are not socialists.

00:04:21.000 And for those on the left who think that all Republicans are fascists, Again, you'd have to point to who you think is a fascist on the right side of the aisle, like an out-and-out fascist.

00:04:30.000 So what the poll shows is that policy wise, there's some commonality between Trump and Biden voters, but people look at each other and they really hate each other, which suggests that more than anything else, this is a culture war.

00:04:40.000 And this really has less to do with policy than it has to do with culture.

00:04:44.000 And this is something that I've been saying for a long time.

00:04:45.000 When you have some of the country that believes the other half of the country is a bunch of religious rubes who are obsessed with their sex lives and who want to control all aspects of their boudoir. 0.84

00:04:56.000 Those people tend to treat other people with a lot of disdain.

00:04:59.000 And that's what you see with the Barack Obama bitter clingers comments from 2008 or the Hillary Clinton deplorables comments from 2016.

00:05:05.000 That there's just this wide swath of evil, racist, xenophobic Americans who live in the middle of the country and they're really, really terrible, awful people.

00:05:12.000 And then on the right, you have people saying, well, if those people look at me like that, well, I don't want to hang out with those people at all.

00:05:18.000 And there is somewhat of an imbalance in terms of what people think the true threat to the country is.

00:05:23.000 And that imbalance is now kind of moving into balance.

00:05:25.000 What do I mean by that?

00:05:27.000 Is that if you look at a poll a couple of years ago from my friend Kristen Soltis-Henderson, what it showed is that Democrats believe the number one threat to America is not an economic threat.

00:05:36.000 It's not a foreign policy threat.

00:05:37.000 It's Trump voters.

00:05:38.000 And you're starting to see Trump voters respond by saying, OK, well, if you perceive me as a threat, this now makes you a threat to me.

00:05:43.000 And so what this poll shows is that a huge percentage of Americans on both sides of the aisle really don't like people on the other side of the aisle.

00:05:50.000 So to the statement, I've come to view elected officials from the opposing party as presenting a clear and present danger to American democracy.

00:05:57.000 80% of Biden voters at least somewhat agree that elected officials from the Republican Party present a clear and present danger to American democracy.

00:06:03.000 84% of Trump voters feel the same way.

00:06:07.000 Are you concerned that you or someone close to you might experience personal loss or suffering due to the effects of the opposing party?

00:06:11.000 80% of Biden voters say yes.

00:06:12.000 82% of Trump voters say yes.

00:06:16.000 Despite the U.S. 0.72

00:06:17.000 Constitution's First Amendment protection of free speech, some media sources on the extreme left or right have become so untruthful they should be censored.

00:06:24.000 78% of Democrats say at least they have some sympathy for the idea of censorship.

00:06:29.000 Some 73% of Republicans say the same about left-wing sources.

00:06:34.000 78% of Democrats say that Republicans want to eliminate the influence of progressive values in American life and culture.

00:06:41.000 87% of Republicans feel the same way about Democrats.

00:06:45.000 Some 77% of Democrats say that the mainstream media might as well be a part of the Republican Party.

00:06:51.000 77% of Democrats believe the media is biased toward the Republican Party, which is totally crazy.

00:06:57.000 88% of Republicans believe that the mainstream media is part of the Democratic Party, which is significantly more accurate.

00:07:04.000 And of course, 56% of Democrats believe there's no real difference between Republicans and fascists.

00:07:09.000 76% of Republicans believe there's no difference between Democrats and socialists.

00:07:13.000 Now, again, I'm not going to pretend that there is a complete equation here, because there is not.

00:07:17.000 The Democrats are much warmer toward socialism than the Republicans are toward fascism.

00:07:20.000 There's just no question about this.

00:07:22.000 Just on a base root level, the Democratic Party has a lot more crossover with socialistic ideas about redistribution of income, for example, or restrictions placed on use of private property, or even the family, than Republicans have with the idea that there ought to be complete top-down control of government in every aspect of your life, which is really the essence of fascism.

00:07:40.000 Fascism tends more toward the left in that particular iteration.

00:07:43.000 But it's very clear that Americans' bottom line here are polarized and see people on the other side of the political aisle as a real threat to them.

00:07:51.000 Now, in a second, we're going to ask the question whether that matters, because I think everybody sees that and they go, OK, well, that's why the country is falling apart.

00:07:56.000 But there's some new data suggesting that's not really why the country is falling apart.

00:07:59.000 And it's kind of fascinating and worth going into, because all of this is root level stuff in American politics.

00:08:04.000 What's driving?

00:08:06.000 The polarization.

00:08:07.000 What's driving the fact that people are having these fraught battles over sometimes very fringe issues?

00:08:13.000 Like what's driving all that?

00:08:14.000 We're going to get to that in just one second.

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00:09:23.000 Okay, so, we see this poll from University of Virginia and it shows, again, massive polarization in the American public.

00:09:28.000 Democrats think Republicans are fascists.

00:09:30.000 Republicans think Democrats are socialists and all the rest.

00:09:32.000 So the question is, What sort of difference does this make in our politics?

00:09:36.000 Now, the rote answer is huge difference, right?

00:09:38.000 If we don't like each other, it's going to be very difficult for us to live together.

00:09:41.000 However, there is a new study that is out from, quoted by Thomas Edsel, who does a really interesting column for the New York Times.

00:09:49.000 I know, there really is an interesting columnist at the New York Times.

00:09:52.000 And he quotes a study titled, Political Sectarianism in America, published by 15 important scholars in Science Magazine in November 2020.

00:10:02.000 The Science Essay argued the political sectarianism of the public incentivizes politicians to adopt anti-democratic tactics when pursuing electoral or political victories.

00:10:10.000 A recent experiment shows that today a majority party candidate in most U.S.

00:10:14.000 House districts, Democrat or Republican, could get elected despite openly violating democratic principles like electoral fairness, checks and balances, or civil liberties, right?

00:10:21.000 So there's this study from last year suggesting that most Americans are electing people who don't really care about the checks and balances of American life.

00:10:29.000 However, David Brookman, Joshua Kala, and Sean Westwood, political scientists at Berkeley, Yale, and Dartmouth, challenged that Science Magazine article.

00:10:36.000 Instead, they make the case in their December 2020 paper, Does Effective Polarization Undermine Democratic Norms or Accountability?

00:10:43.000 Maybe not.

00:10:44.000 That partisan hostility may be destructive, but attempts to moderate it will not diminish party loyalty or tolerance for anti-democratic changes in election law or the decline in political accountability.

00:10:53.000 In other words, It's true that partisan hostility may be bad, but even if we got rid of partisan hostility, that actually would not solve the underlying problem, which is that many, many, many Americans, of all stripes, seem to be willing to use the government as a club to cudgel somebody else.

00:11:09.000 Brookman and his co-authors agree with a lot of the prior research that found that effective polarization has been growing worldwide.

00:11:14.000 But what they differ with is those who take the growing partisan hostility argument a step further to contend that if citizens were less effectively polarized, they would be less likely to endorse norm violation, overlook co-partisan politicians' shortcomings, oppose compromise, adopt their party's views, or misperceive economic conditions.

00:11:31.000 In other words, this really is not being driven by polarization.

00:11:34.000 The polarization is being driven in turn by something else.

00:11:37.000 And Brookman and his co-authors write, quote, we find no evidence that an exogenous decrease in effective polarization causes a downstream decrease in opposition to democratic norms.

00:11:46.000 In other words, even if we get less polarized, people still don't like democracy anymore.

00:11:50.000 We investigate the causal effects of effective polarization on a variety of downstream incomes in five political domains, electoral accountability, adopting one party's policy positions, support for legislative bipartisanship, support for democratic norms, and perception of objective conditions.

00:12:06.000 So in other words, it seems like reducing polarization between people, making people feel better about one another, is not necessarily the answer to the real political problem that we have right now, which is the subjection of our political norms to withering fire.

00:12:22.000 There's another article from May 2021 from a sociologist at Stanford named Jan Volkl and eight colleagues.

00:12:28.000 in which they write, there is widespread concern that rising effective polarization, disliked for members of the opposing party, is exacerbating a range of anti-democratic attitudes.

00:12:36.000 Accordingly, scholars and practitioners alike have invested great effort in developing depolarization interventions and successfully promising interventions that have been identified that successfully reduce effective polarization.

00:12:47.000 These efforts have mixed results.

00:12:49.000 We find that the depolarization interventions reliably reduce effective polarization, but this reduction does not reliably translate into reduced support for undemocratic practices, undemocratic candidates, or partisan violence.

00:13:01.000 They conclude, our findings suggest effective polarization may not be as problematic for democratic societies as is widely assumed.

00:13:08.000 In sum, the research shows interventions can reduce both attitudinal and behavioral indicators of effective polarization without reducing anti-democratic attitudes.

00:13:17.000 So people could still be anti-democracy even while they kind of like their neighbors, as it turns out.

00:13:21.000 This calls into question the commonly held assumptions that anti-democratic attitudes are downstream consequences of effective polarization.

00:13:29.000 This is really quite fascinating research and suggests something deeper has been going on here.

00:13:33.000 So what is the deeper thing?

00:13:35.000 If you don't dislike your neighbors, then why are so many of us abandoning democratic norms?

00:13:39.000 Why are so many people abandoning, for example, checks and balances, which is clearly happening.

00:13:43.000 More and more Americans on both sides of the aisle seem to look at federalism and say, well, Yeah, but if we can grab the brass ring, if we can grab the top of government, why shouldn't we use that to cram down our perspectives on a multiplicity of other Americans?

00:13:54.000 Now, the normal explanation might be, yeah, I disagree with those other Americans so much, and they're such a threat to me, that I need to use the brass ring to cram down my policies to prevent them from threatening me, right?

00:14:03.000 It's a battle for all, right?

00:14:05.000 This is a war over the government gun, and if they get it, they're gonna shoot us, and if we get it, we better shoot them.

00:14:10.000 So that would be the suggestion that has been made before, that polarization is what is driving the anti-democratic tendencies.

00:14:15.000 And these new studies are suggesting, no, that's not correct.

00:14:17.000 That even if the differences are somewhat relatively minor, people are still willing to grab the government gun and use them to cram down their own political points of view.

00:14:27.000 And just one second, we'll get to why I think this is happening.

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00:15:40.000 Okay, so why is it that if what's causing all of this movement away from checks and balances and democratic norms and respect for outcomes, if what's driving that is not effective polarization, right?

00:15:52.000 How much we feel threatened by each other.

00:15:53.000 What is driving that?

00:15:55.000 The answer is, I think a broad perspective shift on human nature that has happened in the United States and across its parties, though not to equal extent.

00:16:03.000 And a broad shift in what we think the government was constructed for.

00:16:05.000 I think people no longer understand why the United States government was constructed the way it was.

00:16:10.000 The United States government was constructed the way that it was by the Founding Fathers because they had a certain perception of human nature.

00:16:15.000 That perception of human nature is that human beings were inherently limited.

00:16:18.000 Human beings had a great capacity for reason, sure, but they also, human beings, had the unfortunate tendency to be venal and self-serving and extraordinarily ambitious.

00:16:27.000 And to grab the brass ring, the human tendency was to grab the brass ring and then to use that power against somebody else.

00:16:34.000 That was the human tendency.

00:16:35.000 And if you wish to share a polity with other people, regardless of who the other people are, whether you like them or you don't like them, you are going to have to restrict your own ability to use power to do what is good.

00:16:46.000 See, here's the thing.

00:16:47.000 There are two ways to view power.

00:16:48.000 And there are flip sides of the same coin.

00:16:50.000 One way is that you are grabbing power in order to do something good.

00:16:54.000 And this has been how most fascists throughout history have justified what they're doing.

00:16:57.000 They're doing something good.

00:16:58.000 Now, the flip side of that is the people who get the raw end of the deal, the people with the short end of the stick, to them, when somebody says, I'm grabbing power to do something good, very often what that means is you're grabbing power to do something bad to me.

00:17:11.000 You want to do something good for your friends, something good on behalf of quote-unquote society, but for me individually, that's a bad thing.

00:17:17.000 The use of power inherently means that there is somebody who is going to be the target of the power.

00:17:23.000 And so if you are grabbing power, inherently somebody else is going to be worse off.

00:17:27.000 Power is, in fact, a zero-sum game.

00:17:30.000 There are very rare circumstances in which power is not a zero-sum game.

00:17:34.000 But in most political circumstances, power is a zero-sum game.

00:17:38.000 It's only not a zero-sum game when you have like overt aggression, right?

00:17:41.000 This is why the sort of libertarian perspective on government is the government ought to be used only in order to maintain certain basic legal norms, to prevent violence, for example, because that is a non-zero-sum game, right?

00:17:54.000 If there's no violence for anybody, we all live better lives.

00:17:57.000 Including the people who theoretically would be doing violence and then would be the victim of somebody else doing violence to them.

00:18:01.000 But for most of the things that we do as a government, somebody is going to get the short end of the stick.

00:18:06.000 Somebody is going to pay the price.

00:18:07.000 Somebody is going to foot the bill.

00:18:09.000 So what the founder said is, if that's the case, then we better have overwhelming support for anything that we do, as a federal government particularly, in order for us to make a move.

00:18:19.000 We would have subsidiarity at very local levels where you and your friends really agree on a lot of stuff.

00:18:19.000 Right?

00:18:24.000 Well, then you have more ability as a local government to do what it is that you want, because everybody else who doesn't want to live there can simply move.

00:18:30.000 Right?

00:18:30.000 If you have a very local community, you know everybody in the town, everybody in the town knows you, you want to preserve your way of life.

00:18:36.000 Well, then you have a little bit more power under the federal constitution, you know, barring sort of certain fundamental violations of rights like fascistic non-voting, right?

00:18:44.000 The federal government does guarantee to the states a Republican form of government.

00:18:48.000 But barring extraordinarily basic rights violations, local governments can do a lot of stuff.

00:18:53.000 And then as you kind of move out, as you zoom out from the very local level to the broader and broader level, the federal government was supposed to do less and less because we agree on less and less.

00:19:01.000 And so in order for us to do anything, we need to overcome a bunch of obstacles and burdens in order to prove that what we were doing was so vastly important that it was worthy of the use of power.

00:19:12.000 So this, again, springs from a vision of human nature that the Founders were grounding in both a Judeo-Christian value system, which suggests that man is inherently sinful, and that man is inherently flawed, and that man also has the capacity to be an angel, but also the capacity to be a devil, right?

00:19:25.000 I mean, this is directly from Federalist 51, where James Madison talks about the capacity of man to be both angel and devil.

00:19:31.000 The notion was that if men were angels, no government would be necessary, and if men were devils, no government would be sufficient.

00:19:39.000 So there was that view of human nature.

00:19:41.000 And then over time, it seems that the view of human nature itself shifted.

00:19:45.000 And in accordance with that, the view of government shifted.

00:19:48.000 So in the late 19th century, mid to late 19th century, there was this movement away from a vision of human nature as bounded to a view of human nature as unbounded, completely malleable.

00:19:58.000 That all human limits were essentially products of their environment, and if we could just shift the environment in any direction, then human nature would inherently change.

00:20:05.000 This is one of the key components of Marxism, is that human nature would change as the economic system under which we live changed.

00:20:11.000 Inevitably.

00:20:13.000 And that was the kind of vision of the progressive view of the United States in the early 20th century.

00:20:18.000 If we can just shift the circumstances under which people live, we will create a better form of human being.

00:20:23.000 There was an innate malleability to human beings.

00:20:25.000 And therefore, human beings could be angels.

00:20:27.000 And if human beings could be angels, why would you have to fear the government?

00:20:30.000 Why would you have to fear a vast, broad national government doing exactly what it is that it wanted to do?

00:20:35.000 Why would you need democracy anymore?

00:20:36.000 You just, like really, there would be no need for voting.

00:20:40.000 All you would need is the right person at the top.

00:20:42.000 And if that right person at the top was doing the right thing, well then liberty would be of no consequence because liberty, of course, we all pay homage to liberty.

00:20:50.000 Liberty only exists when liberty means that something you disagree with is allowed to happen.

00:20:55.000 If you believe that liberty only extends to the things you want to happen, that's not actual liberty.

00:21:00.000 That's just you being your own little dictator.

00:21:04.000 The notion of liberty is that liberty allows for innovation, liberty allows for experimentation, liberty allows for the possibility of pluralism as the famous philosopher Isaiah Berlin used to say.

00:21:17.000 The basic notion here is that liberty was not only a tool but it was a virtue.

00:21:24.000 The core of liberty is disagreement.

00:21:27.000 The core of liberty is that you don't have all the answers.

00:21:29.000 We don't know all of the most virtuous things.

00:21:32.000 Yes, there are certain baseline things that we all sort of agree are virtuous, and those can be encoded in law.

00:21:36.000 Now, as a society, we've broken down even those things, right?

00:21:39.000 The argument against liberty is that liberty has become libertinism.

00:21:42.000 That is the argument from the right, is that liberty went so far that it basically tore down all of the institutions that we all used to agree upon, and now we have nothing we agree upon, and so we're all falling apart.

00:21:51.000 in order to reinstill a sense of commonality, we need to use the power of government.

00:21:55.000 That's the argument from the right.

00:21:57.000 But that's the polarization argument.

00:21:59.000 The real argument that I'm suggesting is more kind of broadly based than that argument.

00:22:04.000 There's some virtue to that argument, although the virtues don't go all that far because the reality is that aside from kind of resetting very, very basic notions of virtue in American life, and those virtues really are sort of relegated to the amendments that are made to the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights, that aside from those specific virtues, the government should not really be involved.

00:22:26.000 What most people have fallen into is this idea that the government itself is our friend.

00:22:31.000 The government is quote-unquote us, as Barack Obama suggested in 2012.

00:22:33.000 The founders never would have thought the government was us.

00:22:36.000 We're individuals, we're families, we're local communities.

00:22:38.000 The government is not us.

00:22:40.000 But here's the thing.

00:22:41.000 The minute that we as a society, I mean like pretty much everyone across the aisle, decides that the federal government is the answer to all of our problems, all of our questions, And the federal government ought to be the power doing the virtuous thing, not preserving liberty, not preserving the possibility of other people disagreeing, not pursuing subsidiarity.

00:22:58.000 Once that happens, the polarization doesn't matter anymore.

00:23:01.000 All you want is the right person in charge of the government.

00:23:03.000 And this is going to lead to an enormous amount of inherent dissatisfaction because here's the thing, all of that's a lie.

00:23:09.000 It doesn't matter who's at the top of government.

00:23:10.000 It's never going to be the greatest person.

00:23:13.000 It could be the greatest person and it still wouldn't matter because we would still have disagreements in this country.

00:23:17.000 The sort of longing for an authoritarian monarch to lead us forward out of whatever morass we have found ourselves in, and this exists on nearly all sides of the political aisle, is extraordinarily dangerous, but it is an outgrowth of a failure to understand basic human nature in the way the founders understood basic human nature.

00:23:32.000 They believed in checks and balances because even they, who were blessed with some of the great leadership of all time and people like George Washington or John Adams or Thomas Jefferson, right?

00:23:39.000 Even they understood that all of these people are inherently limited and flawed and you can't give them absolute and ultimate power.

00:23:45.000 We seem to have lost that capacity to understand innate human flaw.

00:23:48.000 We'll get to more of this in just one second.

00:23:51.000 First, let's talk about a simple way to keep nausea out of your life.

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00:25:20.000 Okay.

00:25:22.000 If your hope, if your great hope, is that electing the right people to positions of power is going to fix everything, then you are likely to be disappointed.

00:25:31.000 You're likely to be disappointed because this has never been the case.

00:25:34.000 It has never been the case throughout human history that the person with absolute power, the enlightened monarch, has ever pleased the people in any serious way where a feedback loop was possible.

00:25:43.000 It was easy to say that they were a great monarch from the perspective of history, but you never got a poll of the people they were ruling.

00:25:49.000 The reality is that checks and balances were specifically designed in order to preserve the innovation possible through liberty.

00:25:54.000 In order to preserve the possibility that perhaps we're wrong.

00:25:56.000 In order to preserve the epistemic humility that is necessary for the functioning of a free society.

00:26:02.000 And of course, that sort of humility rests in a belief about the inherent flaws in human nature.

00:26:08.000 When you get rid of those, when you suggest there really are no inherent flaws in human nature, when individual identity breaks down, what you get is a desire for power, pure and simple.

00:26:17.000 And it doesn't matter that you disagree with your neighbor, only mildly.

00:26:20.000 You are virtuous, and your neighbor has the wrong idea.

00:26:23.000 And it doesn't matter whether democracy says that one thing or another.

00:26:26.000 Virtue overcomes democracy.

00:26:27.000 Principle overcomes democracy.

00:26:28.000 Now, there are certain cases where principle does overcome democracy, right?

00:26:31.000 I mean, those principles are spelled out in the Constitution.

00:26:34.000 This is why we have a constitutional process whereby if certain legislation violates core principles, it gets struck down.

00:26:40.000 There are certain things a democracy is just not allowed to do.

00:26:43.000 Again, that is because the founders believed that there were these core principles that had to be protected even from the people.

00:26:50.000 But if you're such a believer that human beings are essentially at root both completely malleable and inherently virtuous, but only people who think like you, you're much more likely to be anti-democratic.

00:27:04.000 Democracy becomes a tool in your arsenal.

00:27:06.000 When you're a majority, you're very pro-democracy.

00:27:08.000 And when you're a minority, you're very anti-democracy.

00:27:11.000 And you believe that you should rule using the authoritarian state, no matter what anybody else thinks.

00:27:16.000 We need an aggressive administrative state to do what we want without the weighing in of the American people.

00:27:22.000 But then when the American people agree with us, then the American people should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

00:27:27.000 This seems to be the perspective.

00:27:29.000 It is very strong on the left.

00:27:30.000 It exists on the right as well.

00:27:32.000 And again, it is an outgrowth of a failure to understand what human nature is.

00:27:36.000 And some of that failure of outgrowth happened over the course, again, of two centuries, and now we are seeing the apotheosis of it as everything becomes nationalized, right?

00:27:44.000 As every issue now affects you, as the way we approach issues is not by being in contact.

00:27:49.000 Like, here's the thing.

00:27:50.000 When you spend a lot of time outdoors or with your friends and family at synagogue or church, Yes, they're wonderful people, you hang out with them, and you also think, I really wouldn't want these people to control my life, and I certainly wouldn't want people far away to control our lives.

00:28:02.000 When you're online all the time, it's easy to find groups of people like you, who are the only virtuous people who have ever existed in all of history.

00:28:08.000 You can tear down all the old statues.

00:28:10.000 You can remake the world anew.

00:28:12.000 All you need is the power.

00:28:15.000 So as I say, I don't think this is about the polarization primarily, I think it is about the fact that the American people, and Westerners generally, have shifted away from a quasi-religious view of humanity, which, by the way, is more backed by the science, and toward a bizarrely mystical view of humanity, in which you define yourself inherently, you're completely malleable to the point where you can actually define your own gender, you can make of yourself whatever you wish, and not only that, you are the only person who has ever been virtuous in the history of the universe, and therefore democracy doesn't matter.

00:28:45.000 When we say in modern society that, you know, the democratic principles have to go by the wayside because there are higher principles, typically what we mean is we wish to be the person holding the sword.

00:28:56.000 And then it doesn't matter what you think of the person on the opposing side.

00:28:59.000 Like, the polarization doesn't help, obviously.

00:29:01.000 If you think the person on the other side of the aisle is bad, it makes you feel good about using the power.

00:29:05.000 But even if the other person is not all that bad, the power is there to be used after all.

00:29:10.000 That is really what's affecting our politics.

00:29:12.000 And this is evident in every area.

00:29:14.000 It's evident wherever you look in American politics and abroad right now.

00:29:18.000 This attitude.

00:29:20.000 That pluralism, democratic processes, that constitutional checks and balances, these things ought not matter because if we just have a great leader, he will lead us to a better day.

00:29:30.000 And in fact, if people disapprove, those people need to be run roughshod over.

00:29:33.000 This is the story of COVID demagoguery from the federal government, for example.

00:29:38.000 Don't look at the data.

00:29:39.000 When you present data to people, they get angry because it's become a referendum on your faith in government.

00:29:45.000 In some ways, COVID has become a referendum on your belief system that the enlightened few will lead us to a better day.

00:29:52.000 Not that every individual has the capacity to make a decision.

00:29:54.000 Many of those decisions will be bad, but freedom is still necessary.

00:29:59.000 Not the idea that free markets will bear fruit, which, by the way, is the story of the pandemic.

00:30:04.000 Yes, Operation Warp Speed protected all of these drug manufacturers from liability with regard to if they made a vaccine that didn't work, they'd still get paid by the federal government.

00:30:14.000 But you really think that if the federal government had not been pushing vaccines very, very hard, that companies wouldn't have jumped in?

00:30:21.000 I mean, how many private companies are attempting to develop things like oral vaccines?

00:30:24.000 Attempting to develop right now therapeutics that are not being paid for by Operation Warp Speed, for example.

00:30:29.000 But instead, what has happened is that, and this is perfectly, it used to be less true.

00:30:34.000 Now it is 100% true.

00:30:36.000 With so many treatments that are now available for COVID.

00:30:39.000 With the vaccines that are out there.

00:30:41.000 We should be moving away from the notion that we need top-down government control.

00:30:44.000 And yet, there is this sense that we need to be told what to do by the greatest among us.

00:30:49.000 Because they will shape the environment that's around us and help us achieve perfection, help us achieve almost a certain sort of personal salvation.

00:30:56.000 That's the only way I can explain the sort of fealty that a lot of people seem to have for public figures in the health establishment.

00:31:02.000 So when I say that we have good treatments, what I mean is that there's good news on COVID.

00:31:06.000 The COVID surge in the Southeast is over.

00:31:09.000 If you look at the numbers from Florida, from Georgia, if you look at Texas, all of these numbers are just way down.

00:31:14.000 Nobody reports on that because the media have an interest in pretending that freedom is coincident with a rise in COVID.

00:31:20.000 But right now, you look in the Northeast and there's a pretty big spike in COVID.

00:31:23.000 Because it turns out that this virus is seasonal and when people go inside, they tend to infect one another with COVID.

00:31:29.000 And if you're vaccinated, you won't die.

00:31:32.000 But if you're unvaccinated, you might die.

00:31:34.000 And even the states that have very high vaccination rates, they don't have 98% vaccination rates.

00:31:39.000 And even areas like Israel, where they have very high vaccination rates, still, a lot of people are being infected.

00:31:44.000 Okay, with all that said, we have a lot of good things that prevent hospitalization and death.

00:31:48.000 And we now have this new drug from Merck.

00:31:50.000 On Friday, they said they have an experimental pill for people sick with COVID.

00:31:53.000 And it reduced hospitalizations and deaths by half.

00:31:57.000 If cleared by regulators, it would be the first pill shown to treat COVID-19, adding a whole new easy-to-use weapon to an arsenal that already includes the vaccine.

00:32:04.000 A decision from the FDA could come within weeks.

00:32:07.000 Now again, it is amazing that we still have to run through this ridiculous sideshow that the FDA is in order to delay treatment.

00:32:13.000 How many treatments at this point has the FDA delayed so long that they've probably allowed tens of thousands of deaths to happen in the United States just because the delay is inherent in the FDA system?

00:32:24.000 But, with that said, we now have good treatments.

00:32:28.000 We should be optimistic about where we are right now.

00:32:31.000 Instead, people are relying more and more on these supposed leaders in public health.

00:32:36.000 And leaders in public health know their job, and that's to scare the living hell out of you.

00:32:39.000 So you have Joe Biden putting out statements about the painful milestone of 700,000 American deaths from COVID, quote, just another reminder of how important it is to get vaccinated.

00:32:48.000 Now, remember, Biden is never going to take any of the blame for that astonishing death toll, even though many, many Americans have died under the auspices of the Biden administration.

00:32:57.000 It's not going to be that they blew it in how they rolled this thing out or their public health messaging.

00:33:02.000 The idea here is just give us more power.

00:33:03.000 It's always give us more power.

00:33:04.000 Anthony Fauci is a perfect example of this sort of person.

00:33:07.000 Now, if you listen to this show over the course of the last couple of years, what you'll notice is that I have shifted my opinion somewhat on Dr. Fauci.

00:33:14.000 So at the beginning, I thought, okay, this guy is, you know, the head of the NIAID under the National Institutes of Health.

00:33:21.000 And he seems, you know, fairly well qualified to talk what he's talking about.

00:33:25.000 And he seems like he wants to give some fact.

00:33:27.000 And even if he gets it wrong, you know, at least he's trying.

00:33:30.000 And then over the course of the pandemic, it's become clear that he's an openly political actor who wants to maximize his own power.

00:33:36.000 I was not willing to say that up until he started suggesting that you still needed to mask up after having had the vaccine and then reversed himself when he started mimicking every single message of the Biden administration.

00:33:49.000 Well, now, I mean, it's clear that he never wants to give up power.

00:33:51.000 Anthony Fauci was on your television over the weekend telling you that it might be too soon to tell if we can get together for Christmas.

00:33:59.000 It is not too soon to tell if you can get together for Christmas.

00:34:01.000 You can get together for Christmas.

00:34:02.000 The reason I say you can get together for Christmas is because if you have been vaccinated, then you are not in serious risk of hospitalization or death from COVID.

00:34:10.000 When I say serious risk, I mean a risk higher than the flu.

00:34:12.000 Once you've been vaccinated, you are very unlikely to be hospitalized or die.

00:34:16.000 Really, really unlikely to die once you've been vaccinated.

00:34:19.000 And if you're unvaccinated, you've made that decision yourself.

00:34:22.000 And you do not pose, when they say that you pose a massive risk to the vaccinated if you're unvaccinated, no.

00:34:27.000 The vaccine cuts that risk.

00:34:29.000 There is no guarantee in American society that you will never get COVID.

00:34:33.000 That is not a thing that we can ever guarantee because it is now endemic, as every major scientist has said.

00:34:39.000 And yet Anthony Fauci, because he is power hungry and because so many people seem to be wedded to the notion that again, government can solve all of your problems because human beings are malleable and government is just an extension of that, I don't know why anyone would listen to Fauci, but he's still there talking.

00:34:52.000 Here's Anthony Fauci over the weekend saying it's too soon to tell if you can get together with your family for Christmas.

00:34:57.000 We can gather for Christmas or it's just too soon to tell.

00:35:01.000 You know, Margaret, it's just too soon to tell.

00:35:04.000 We've just got to concentrate on continuing to get those numbers down and not try to jump ahead by weeks or months and say what we're going to do at a particular time.

00:35:14.000 Let's focus like a laser on continuing to get those cases down.

00:35:19.000 And we can do it by people getting vaccinated and also in the situation where boosters are appropriate to get people boosted.

00:35:28.000 Okay, so he's saying we may not know by Christmas.

00:35:31.000 And here's the reality.

00:35:32.000 Most people in most of the country are already out and about and living their lives as normal because either they're vaxxed or they're not vaxxed.

00:35:37.000 And they've made that decision.

00:35:39.000 But Fauci is so delusional at this point that he's saying that he doesn't think it's okay.

00:35:43.000 He said this this week.

00:35:44.000 He doesn't think it's okay to get a mild breakthrough illness from COVID.

00:35:47.000 Well, I'm sorry to tell you this, but Dr. Fauci cannot protect you from a mild breakthrough illness from COVID.

00:35:52.000 The breakthrough cases of COVID are significant.

00:35:55.000 A very large number of people who have been vaccinated have gotten COVID and then they get a cold or they get a mild flu and then they're done.

00:36:03.000 Nobody cares about that sort of stuff normally.

00:36:05.000 But if you believe that the government is vested with this incredible power to instill both virtue and to protect you, then why wouldn't you listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci when he says something patently absurd?

00:36:16.000 Here he is.

00:36:17.000 It is an assumption that is okay To get infected and to get mild and moderate disease, as long as you don't wind up in the hospital and die.

00:36:27.000 And I have to be open and honest, I reject that.

00:36:31.000 I think we should be preventing people from getting sick from COVID, even if they don't wind up in the hospital.

00:36:41.000 Okay, that's, I'm sorry, that's madness.

00:36:42.000 That's madness.

00:36:43.000 That means that this is a forever pandemic, as I've been saying for a while.

00:36:46.000 This government wants the pandemic to last forever.

00:36:49.000 Literally nowhere on earth is there a guarantee that you won't get sick.

00:36:52.000 That guarantee does not exist.

00:36:54.000 No mask is going, no masking regimen is going to stop that unless we're all wearing N95s for the rest of time. 0.73

00:36:59.000 There's no point at which we ever go back to normal under that rubric.

00:37:02.000 He's aiming, I mean, that's him saying he's aiming for zero COVID.

00:37:05.000 No reputable scientist believes zero COVID is possible.

00:37:08.000 And the sooner we accept that, the better off we are.

00:37:08.000 It is not a thing.

00:37:10.000 But that's in here, that's accepting our inherent Limitations as human beings and as a society and that's something that too many people are simply unwilling to do.

00:37:18.000 Accept those limitations.

00:37:20.000 Which of course leads to some rather fascistic top-down beliefs by people like Fauci.

00:37:26.000 That mandates are good.

00:37:28.000 Not just mandates on adults, mandates on children.

00:37:30.000 So Fauci was asked about California's new announcement that if you're above the age of 12 you must be vaccinated in order to go back to school.

00:37:37.000 Now again, the number of kids who've died between the ages of 12 and 18 is extraordinarily low in the United States because this disease, thank God, is not extremely dangerous for people who are under the age of 18.

00:37:48.000 It is less dangerous over the course of the last year.

00:37:50.000 More people have died from pneumonia over the course of the last year below the age of 18 in the United States than have died from COVID.

00:37:55.000 And there are many more cases of COVID, generally speaking, than cases of pneumonia in the United States.

00:37:59.000 But here's Anthony Fauci, very happy with the vaccine mandate for children.

00:38:03.000 The idea of getting vaccinated, for example, getting children in school vaccinated, which is gone right now with Governor Newsom in California, things like that are not new.

00:38:14.000 I mean, there are school situations where I know my own children how to get vaccinated with a variety of vaccines in order to be able to go to school.

00:38:22.000 And real quick.

00:38:22.000 There's nothing new about that.

00:38:24.000 Should other states follow California's lead and require kids to get vaccinated for the coronavirus to go to school?

00:38:31.000 You know, I'm not going to be recommending things to other states.

00:38:33.000 I'll let the leaders of those states, but I think what the governor did in California was something that was sound judgment.

00:38:41.000 Again, if you believe that government has all powers, then why not?

00:38:45.000 What do rights matter?

00:38:46.000 In this half hour, she talks about how rights don't matter. 0.89

00:38:48.000 Individual rights are no longer of consequence.

00:38:50.000 In the end, he ought to rule.

00:38:53.000 Our benevolent dictators ought to rule. 1.00

00:38:54.000 In a second, we'll get to our benevolent dictators trying to figure out exactly how to spend more of our money and encroach more on our freedom. 0.98

00:38:59.000 First, let's talk about a simple fact.

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00:40:09.000 Alrighty, we'll get to more in just one second.

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00:40:50.000 Okay, so when you carry forward this vision, which is that you have the virtuous position and it doesn't matter what democratic obstacles stand in your way, somebody needs to get out of the way.

00:41:05.000 This takes you to some pretty anti-democratic places.

00:41:07.000 And this has been true, again, across the political aisle, but right now we are seeing it mostly from people on the left.

00:41:12.000 So Bernie Sanders, for example, over the weekend, he tweeted out, two senators cannot be allowed to defeat what 48 senators and 210 House members want.

00:41:21.000 We must stand with the working families of our country.

00:41:23.000 We must combat climate change.

00:41:24.000 We must delay passing the infrastructure bill until we pass a strong reconciliation bill.

00:41:28.000 Hey, now, just focus in on those stats for one second.

00:41:31.000 We're talking about anti-democratic beliefs and norms.

00:41:35.000 It's not a surprise that Bernie Sanders is fond of anti-democratic norms.

00:41:38.000 After all, he loves the USSR and Cuba.

00:41:39.000 But Bernie Sanders tweeting out that two senators cannot be allowed to defeat what 48 senators and 210 House members want.

00:41:47.000 This boggles the mind a little bit, considering there are 100 senators.

00:41:51.000 So if 48 senators want something, this would mean, just using a little quick math up top here, 100 minus 48 is 52.

00:41:58.000 That means 52 senators do not want something.

00:42:01.000 So he is saying that Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, if they don't want something, along with 50 other Republicans, they should not be able to trump what 48 senators want.

00:42:11.000 Which is a weird notion of how majorities work.

00:42:13.000 He says they're not allowed to defeat 210 House members.

00:42:16.000 What do those 210 House members want?

00:42:18.000 Now you'll recall there are 435 House members.

00:42:20.000 Now again, I may not be a math whiz, but 435 minus 210 is 225.

00:42:25.000 Which is larger than 210.

00:42:25.000 So he's saying a minority of the House and a minority of the Senate ought to rule.

00:42:30.000 And of course he believes that because he is privy to virtue.

00:42:34.000 And the process can't be allowed to stand in the way.

00:42:36.000 The process is of no consequence at all, obviously.

00:42:40.000 And this attitude has permeated down to the lowest levels of the Democratic activist wing.

00:42:46.000 So Nancy Pelosi put out a notice last week that they had extended the Thursday, September 30th legislative day to Friday, pushing back passage of the bipartisan infrastructure framework and to advance Build Back Better.

00:42:58.000 But they needed more time to reach their goal.

00:43:01.000 She says, quote, more time is needed.

00:43:03.000 To reach our goal of passing both bills.

00:43:06.000 Which we will.

00:43:07.000 It's about time!

00:43:08.000 We all take great pride in the rescue package.

00:43:11.000 It's about time.

00:43:12.000 There's an October 31st surface transportation authorization deadline after last night's passage of a critical 30-day extension.

00:43:20.000 We must pass BIF well before then.

00:43:23.000 The sooner the better to get the jobs out there.

00:43:25.000 It's about time.

00:43:26.000 She just keeps saying it's about time over and over and over.

00:43:29.000 If it were about time, then she would have passed a bill last week.

00:43:32.000 She doesn't have the support to pass the bill last week.

00:43:33.000 So instead, she's pushing it off till October 31st.

00:43:36.000 She was supposed to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure framework.

00:43:39.000 That bipartisan infrastructure bill had support from Republicans in the Senate.

00:43:44.000 It had support from Republicans in the House.

00:43:47.000 She wasn't going to bring it up for a vote, however, because there weren't enough Democrats in her own party to pass it unanimously within her own party.

00:43:55.000 They were going to try and vote it down.

00:43:57.000 So she instead delayed it, and she's falling prey to the progressives, who again are a very small wing of the party, This caused Kyrsten Sinema to blast fellow Democrats.

00:44:08.000 She said canceling the U.S. House vote on a bipartisan infrastructure investment and jobs act denies Americans millions of good paying new jobs and hurts everyday families.

00:44:15.000 And she points out that it's the radicals who are holding this up.

00:44:19.000 She says Congress was designed as a place where representatives of Americans with valid and diverse views find compromise and common ground.

00:44:25.000 That is why when President Biden asked me to continue bipartisan infrastructure negotiations, I agreed and helped deliver the Bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, a historic, broadly popular plan that reflects a key priority of President Biden's.

00:44:37.000 My commitment to delivering lasting results is also why I have engaged for months in direct good faith negotiations over the separate budget reconciliation proposal.

00:44:45.000 Good faith negotiations, however, require trust.

00:44:47.000 Over the course of this year, Democratic leaders have made conflicting promises that could not all be kept and have, at times, pretended that differences of opinion within our party did not exist.

00:44:56.000 Even when those disagreements were repeatedly made clear directly and publicly, canceling the infrastructure vote further erodes that trust.

00:45:02.000 More importantly, it betrays the trust the American people have placed in their elected leaders and denies our country crucial investments to expand economic opportunities.

00:45:09.000 That's Kirsten Sinema going hard after her own party. 1.00

00:45:13.000 But what this means is that this means Kyrsten Sinema is the bad person.

00:45:17.000 And Kyrsten Sinema is apparently standing in the way of democracy.

00:45:21.000 And the folks who believe that the federal government should do anything and everything That any obstacle is an obstacle on the road to utopia.

00:45:28.000 Those people have no limits.

00:45:30.000 This is how you end up with video of protesters following Kyrsten Sinema into the bathroom at Arizona State University and berating her while she is on the can.

00:45:38.000 I'm not kidding you.

00:45:38.000 This is a thing that happened over the weekend.

00:45:40.000 Now, just imagine for a second if Republicans had followed AOC into the bathroom and berated her about the Green New Deal. 1.00

00:45:47.000 We would be treated to weeks on end of talk about the innate horrors of that.

00:45:52.000 AOC would be on TV crying and we would have the media talking about how all Republicans were like this.

00:45:57.000 Meanwhile, you have Democrats who are chasing Kyrsten Sinema into a bathroom where presumably she is doing her business in order to harass her about not voting for a $3.5 trillion boondoggle. 0.57

00:46:08.000 And the media are kind of like, you know, normal politics every day at work.

00:46:12.000 Here's a little bit of that video.

00:46:13.000 We need a Build Back Better plan right now.

00:46:16.000 We knocked on doors.

00:46:20.000 We need solutions to build that better plan.

00:46:23.000 We have the solutions that we need.

00:46:27.000 And Bernie Sanders, of course, is doubling down on this as well.

00:46:29.000 So Bernie Sanders was slamming Kyrsten Sinema, saying that it's not the progressives holding this up.

00:46:34.000 It's Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin holding this up.

00:46:36.000 Well, no, it's you.

00:46:38.000 It's you.

00:46:38.000 I mean, these are two separate issues.

00:46:39.000 There's the bipartisan infrastructure plan, which, again, has bipartisan approval.

00:46:44.000 And then there's the reconciliation plan, which needs to be negotiated separately.

00:46:47.000 You guys tied them together because you wish to run roughshod over everyone.

00:46:51.000 And that's why you're angry at Sinema, because she's standing in the way of your utopian schemes. 0.99

00:46:55.000 Here's Bernie.

00:46:56.000 Well, I think Senator Sinema is wrong.

00:47:00.000 I think from day one, Jonathan, it has been clear.

00:47:02.000 President of the United States has said it.

00:47:04.000 Speaker of the House Pelosi has made it clear.

00:47:07.000 Our Majority Leader in the Senate, Schumer, has made it clear.

00:47:10.000 Both of these bills are going forward in tandem.

00:47:13.000 We're not just taking on or dealing with Senators Manchin or Senator Sinema.

00:47:18.000 We're taking on the entire ruling class of this country. 0.65

00:47:23.000 It's the higher ruling class of this country that needs to be taken on, right?

00:47:26.000 The language of virtue.

00:47:27.000 Of pure virtue.

00:47:29.000 Democratic norms don't matter. 0.99

00:47:30.000 Democracy doesn't matter.

00:47:31.000 This guy thinks that 48 senators and 210 congresspeople are enough to pass a $3.5 trillion bill.

00:47:36.000 What's the big deal?

00:47:37.000 After all, what they are doing is virtuous.

00:47:39.000 It all comes down, in the end, to government power.

00:47:42.000 It's all about government power.

00:47:45.000 And then the powerful are entitled to completely lie to you, of course.

00:47:48.000 So Cedric Richmond, who's an advisor to President Biden, he goes out on national TV and he keeps repeating the lie that we don't have to worry about the spending because of course the number is zero.

00:47:57.000 This is not about a number, because at the end of the day, here's what's important, Chuck.

00:48:02.000 The number is zero.

00:48:04.000 We are paying for everything in this piece of legislation.

00:48:08.000 And it's very popular with the American people that the wealthy and big corporations finally pay their fair share.

00:48:15.000 So we're going to pay for everything we do.

00:48:19.000 No, you're not going to pay for everything you do and you're lying to the American people.

00:48:22.000 But you believe you can get away with it because for too long, the American people have been willing to grant absolute power to whoever quote-unquote agrees with them, depending on whether they have a D or an R next to their name.

00:48:32.000 And that needs to stop right now.

00:48:33.000 We need to start thinking as an American people systemically.

00:48:36.000 We need to start thinking about the systems and incentive structures we create for our politicians. 0.82

00:48:39.000 This is not about electing the right people.

00:48:41.000 It's not about getting rid of the wrong people.

00:48:42.000 It's about making sure that the checks and balances of American government still work to protect the fundamental freedoms That are there because human nature exists and human nature is not trustworthy.

00:48:53.000 Alrighty, we'll be back here later today with an additional hour of content.

00:48:55.000 In the meantime, go check out the Michael Knowles Show that's available right now.

00:48:58.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

00:48:58.000 This is The Ben Shapiro Show.

00:48:59.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is produced by Elliot Feld.

00:49:07.000 Executive Producer Jeremy Boring.

00:49:09.000 Our Supervising Producer is Mathis Glover.

00:49:11.000 Production Manager Pavel Lydowsky.

00:49:13.000 Associate Producer Bradford Carrington.

00:49:15.000 Post Producer Justin Barber.

00:49:17.000 The show is edited by Adam Sajevitz.

00:49:19.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Koromina.

00:49:21.000 Hair and Makeup is by Fabiola Cristina.

00:49:23.000 Production Assistant Jessica Kranz.

00:49:25.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is a Daily Wire production.

00:49:27.000 Copyright Daily Wire 2021.

00:49:30.000 An illegal alien harasses a U.S. 1.00

00:49:31.000 Senator in a women's bathroom, Dr. Fauci tries to cancel Christmas again, and a Democrat lawmaker claims that efforts to stop the killing of black babies are rooted in white supremacy.

The Ben Shapiro Show - October 04, 2021

Is A New Civil War Coming? | Ep. 1346

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