The Ben Shapiro Show - Is The Democratic Theory Already Collapsing?

00:00:00.000 Impeachment moves forward, but what if there's no cover-up and no quid pro quo?

00:00:04.000 Plus, President Trump calls a whistleblower a spy.

00:00:06.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

00:00:06.000 This is the Ben Shapiro Show.

00:00:08.000 All righty, so let's start with the latest developments according to ENM News, which I have not heard of, but they are in fact reporting that Democrats are aiming for a fast-focused impeachment inquiry They want to get this thing done before the end of the year.

00:00:27.000 According to E&M News, a crucial cache of evidence in hand, House Democrats moved quickly on Thursday with an impeachment inquiry they said would be focused tightly on President Trump's dealings with Ukraine, using an incendiary whistleblower complaint as a roadmap for their investigation.

00:00:40.000 The complaint landed like a bombshell on Capitol Hill Thursday morning after its release by the House Intelligence Committee.

00:00:45.000 Democrats quickly seized on its narrative of allegations against Mr. Trump, chock full of potentially damning detail, intriguing threads, and characters who could become witnesses in the nascent inquiry as an outline for their work.

00:00:56.000 After months of plotting investigation to determine whether they had grounds to impeach Mr. Trump, Democrats were working feverishly to build a case on the Ukraine matter, with some lawmakers saying they could move within a month or six weeks, possibly drafting articles of impeachment by the end of October.

00:01:10.000 So in a second, we're going to go through the actual allegations because as I have been saying all along, there are only a few theories of impeachment that even theoretically work.

00:01:19.000 One is quid pro quo, right?

00:01:20.000 That's an actual theory of impeachment.

00:01:21.000 The president committed some sort of actual crime of bribery in which he held back Ukrainian military aid and made clear to the Ukrainians that this was unless they investigated his chief political rival in the 2020 election as he sought Joe Biden, right?

00:01:34.000 That'd be the quid pro quo argument.

00:01:35.000 Then there was the cover-up argument.

00:01:37.000 That was the idea that the Trump administration had tried to cover up the so-called quid pro quo, or tried to cover up illegally materials that Congress should have.

00:01:46.000 And that goes back, that theory, to the Watergate cover-up-is-worse-than-the-crime theory of impeachment.

00:01:51.000 And then finally, there was the kind of miasmatic theory of impeachment.

00:01:54.000 And the miasmatic theory of impeachment is President Trump is generally corrupt.

00:01:58.000 We don't like him so much.

00:01:59.000 And so we'll sort of suggest that generally he shouldn't be telling the Ukrainians to dig up dirt on his political rivals, even if he is not withholding U.S.

00:02:07.000 taxpayer dollars or using his power as the president to do this sort of stuff.

00:02:10.000 And that theory really does not hold water because the fact is the presidents are constantly talking in both their capacity as presidents and as candidates.

00:02:18.000 Barack Obama did this famously in 2012 when he said to Dmitry Medvedev, then the president of Russia, that he would give the Russians flexibility after the election if they would back off for now.

00:02:27.000 Was that an abuse of his power?

00:02:29.000 Yeah, kind of.

00:02:30.000 But did that mean it was impeachable?

00:02:32.000 Probably not, because the president does have wide powers inside the purview of foreign policy.

00:02:37.000 Okay, with all of that said, the going theory here is that if the Democrats impeach Trump and it's on weak grounds, then it sort of hurts them.

00:02:44.000 And the polls are not showing that so much.

00:02:46.000 The polls have immediately shifted In favor of impeachment, not totally, but at least it's now even support, which is what you would expect.

00:02:54.000 Because the fact is that as soon as Democrats launch something, and people who are generally imposed to impeachment, suddenly a bunch of Democrats snap into place, and they are very much in favor of impeachment, and all the Republicans rally to Trump's defense.

00:03:06.000 So basically, his approval ratings mirror his support against impeachment, and then there are like 17% of the American population, 15 to 17% of the American population, We don't know enough to know the answer as to whether Trump should be impeached or not.

00:03:20.000 Okay, the latest poll on this comes courtesy of Morning Consult.

00:03:24.000 According to Morning Consult, voter support for impeachment matched its highest point of Donald Trump's presidency as he faced a whistleblower allegation that he pressured Ukraine's president to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, with more impeachment supporters than ever before saying he committed an impeachable offense, according to Morning Consult political polling.

00:03:41.000 The new September 24th to 26th poll of about 1,600 registered voters conducted as Nancy Pelosi endorsed an impeachment inquiry and details emerged about the president's pressure on Ukraine found the public divided at 43% on the question of whether Congress should begin proceedings to remove Trump from office.

00:03:57.000 Okay, so that's not even a divide on impeachment itself, right?

00:03:59.000 That's a divide on whether they should begin proceedings.

00:04:02.000 So a lot of folks are like, okay, we can begin proceedings, but where are we on total impeachment?

00:04:06.000 That is, however, a net swing of 13 percentage points in favor of impeachment since a poll conducted over the weekend.

00:04:13.000 The figure for support rose seven points.

00:04:14.000 The opposition dropped six points.

00:04:16.000 Now, that is what you would expect given the massive amount of media coverage that has attended the Ukraine story.

00:04:25.000 Most of the shift occurred, a lot of the shift actually occurred among Democrats.

00:04:29.000 There's a 13 point shift in favor of impeachment among Democrats, there's about a 6 point shift in favor of impeachment among Independents, and about a 5 point shift among Republicans in favor of impeachment.

00:04:39.000 Those numbers nearly matched an August 2018 poll conducted as Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign chairman, and Michael Cohen, his ex-personal lawyer, were both convicted of crimes stemming from the Mueller investigation.

00:04:49.000 In that poll, 42% of voters supported impeachment, 42% opposed it.

00:04:53.000 So in other words, every time there's a story that raises above the waterline with regard to impeachment, people are immediately split half and half.

00:05:01.000 But, as the details come out, we tend to recede back into, nah, we're not so up for the impeachment thing, and really, if you want to get rid of him, then what you could do, if you really want to, is you could, you know, let us vote.

00:05:13.000 And I think that's where we will end up.

00:05:14.000 I think that as time goes on, the American people are less and less likely to support impeachment, and more and more likely to say, guys, looking at the calendar, it's already the end of September.

00:05:22.000 I mean, we're basically 13 months out from an election here.

00:05:25.000 If you can't hold on for 13 months, I don't know what to tell you.

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00:06:51.000 So as I say, the polls are demonstrating that the American public are kind of split half and half, but that just means that this thing is up in the air.

00:06:58.000 And Democrats want to move fast, which makes sense if they think they've got enough evidence, but here's my problem.

00:07:03.000 I'm not seeing the evidence that they've got enough evidence.

00:07:06.000 Multiple Democratic lawmakers, according to the Washington Post, Are suggesting that there is no formal timeline for the inquiry, but the need for speed comes as Nancy Pelosi is under pressure from vulnerable freshmen to keep the investigation narrowly focused and disciplined.

00:07:21.000 And this means that all of the swing district Democrats are saying, let's get this thing done, because at the very least, if it goes sideways, we still have a year to recover from the fact that the impeachment effort went sideways.

00:07:30.000 The emerging strategy of a rapid investigation focused mainly on the explosive accusation that Trump urged Ukraine's president to dig up dirt about a political rival comes as lawmakers prepare to leave Washington on Friday for a two-week recess.

00:07:43.000 In addition to Trump's call, a whistleblower complaint claimed that unidentified White House officials tried to keep the conversation a secret within the government.

00:07:49.000 Pelosi told reporters earlier in the day, the consensus in our caucus is that our focus now is on this allegation.

00:07:55.000 This is a cover-up.

00:07:56.000 So, this whole thing now is about Ukraine.

00:07:58.000 It's not about anything else.

00:07:59.000 It's not about Russia.

00:08:00.000 It is not about emoluments.

00:08:02.000 It is about solely, apparently, and completely the Ukraine allegations.

00:08:08.000 Okay, so now we arrive at a serious question, which is whether the Ukraine allegations are actually the grounds to go after President Trump.

00:08:18.000 Number one, whether they are legitimate, and number two, we do have to ask, because of the way in which this came up, whether this might be a setup.

00:08:28.000 Now, I think that the whistleblower, and based on the evidence right now, the whistleblower heard something he thought was suspicious, reported it up the chain, but, but, but, there is a caveat.

00:08:38.000 And that is that Representative Adam Schiff is someone who I believe to be deeply corrupt.

00:08:42.000 And the reason I think that Adam Schiff is deeply corrupt is not because I think somebody's paying him off, but because I think he will cut any corner, bear any burden, in order to get President Trump.

00:08:50.000 And that was evidenced by his behavior during the Trump-Russia investigation.

00:08:53.000 During which he went on television each and every night and claimed that he had somewhere hidden in the back room he had his secret information that was certainly going to get Trump over and over and over every night on CNN there's a bombshell coming there's a bombshell coming and then here came the bombshell and it was nothing right there's nothing there and so Schiff has now shifted his focus to the Ukraine investigation and this has led him to do things like

00:09:18.000 What he called a parody conversation where he basically made up a conversation between Trump and Ukraine and claimed that that is what the tenor of the conversation was without proper evidence and It would raise serious questions to me about the whistleblower.

00:09:32.000 It would.

00:09:32.000 It would raise serious questions about the nature of the whistleblower if it turned out that the whistleblower didn't go through proper channels.

00:09:37.000 So, so far, the honesty of the whistleblower is only in question.

00:09:42.000 It's only in question with regard to whether he followed the proper protocols.

00:09:47.000 If he followed the proper protocols, there's really nothing to see here, right?

00:09:50.000 And so what you see is Joseph Maguire, the acting director of national intelligence, testifying yesterday that he believes that the whistleblower did the right thing.

00:09:57.000 You don't have any reason to accuse them of disloyalty to our country or suggest they're beholden to some other country, do you?

00:10:03.000 Sir, absolutely not.

00:10:05.000 I believe that the whistleblower followed the steps every step of the way.

00:10:09.000 However, the statute was one in this situation involving the President of the United States who is not in the intelligence community or matters underneath my supervision did not meet the criteria for urgent concern.

00:10:21.000 I'm just asking about the whistleblower right now.

00:10:24.000 I think the whistleblower did the right thing.

00:10:26.000 Okay, so that's McGuire defending himself as well, saying, yes, the whistleblower did the right thing, but also I did the right thing, because this didn't actually meet the definition of urgent concern.

00:10:34.000 But the point here is not actually McGuire, the point is Schiff.

00:10:36.000 Because Schiff goes on to accuse McGuire of a cover-up, as though there was this whistleblower report, and the whistleblower report went through all the proper channels, then McGuire tried to cover it up.

00:10:45.000 But as we will see, there's a little bit of evidence today that maybe the whistleblower didn't actually go through the right process.

00:10:50.000 And I'll explain in just one second.

00:10:52.000 Here's Adam Schiff blaming McGuire, saying McGuire broke the law.

00:10:55.000 By law, the whistleblower complaint, which brought this gross misconduct to light, should have been presented to this committee weeks ago, and by you, Mr. Director, under the clear letter of the law.

00:11:08.000 And yet it wasn't.

00:11:09.000 Why you chose to allow the subject of the complaint to play a role in deciding whether Congress would ever see the complaint.

00:11:16.000 Why you stood silent When an intelligence professional under your care and protection was ridiculed by the president.

00:11:22.000 We look forward to your explanation.

00:11:24.000 Okay, so the idea here is that McGuire did something deeply, deeply corrupt.

00:11:27.000 And then, this is backed, supposedly today, by a piece in the New York Times.

00:11:30.000 Julian Barnes, Michael Schmidt, Adam Goldman, Katie Benner.

00:11:33.000 They got the whole team together for this one.

00:11:35.000 And the argument of the piece is that the White House was aware of the whistleblower allegations soon after President Trump's call with Ukraine's leaders.

00:11:43.000 They knew about it and then they tried to quash it as the narrative that they're trying to build.

00:11:46.000 It says the White House learned that a CIA officer had lodged allegations against President Trump's dealings with Ukraine even as the officer's whistleblower complaint was moving through a process meant to protect him against reprisals.

00:11:57.000 People familiar with the matter said on Thursday.

00:11:59.000 The officer first shared information about potential abuse of power and a White House cover-up with the CIA's top lawyer through an anonymous process, some of the people said.

00:12:07.000 The lawyer shared the officer's concern with the White House and Justice Department officials following policy.

00:12:11.000 Around the same time, the officer separately filed the whistleblower complaint.

00:12:15.000 Okay, well, once they shared the officer's concerns with the White House and Justice Department officials, following policy, nothing illegal has happened here.

00:12:22.000 Nothing bad has happened here.

00:12:24.000 Once, like, if the policy is that the White House is supposed to be notified, and then they're notified, then that's not a cover-up.

00:12:24.000 Right?

00:12:31.000 But there is something that is suspicious about how the whistleblower went through the process.

00:12:35.000 And that is Adam Schiff.

00:12:38.000 Okay, so Adam Schiff, August 20- Here's the timeline.

00:12:41.000 This phone call happens, July 25th.

00:12:43.000 The whistleblower starts pushing this complaint around through the system August 12th.

00:12:49.000 The Congress is made aware of the existence of the whistleblower complaint on September 9th.

00:12:54.000 That is when Congress is made aware by the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community that there is this whistleblower complaint that he has deemed an urgent concern.

00:13:01.000 That's September 9th.

00:13:02.000 Here's a tweet from Adam Schiff on August 28th.

00:13:07.000 August 28th.

00:13:08.000 More than two weeks before Congress is supposed to be aware that the complaint exists.

00:13:14.000 It is more than two weeks.

00:13:16.000 Adam Schiff tweets out, Trump is withholding vital military aid to Ukraine while his personal lawyer seeks help from the Ukraine government to investigate his political opponent.

00:13:25.000 It doesn't take a stable genius to see the magnitude of this conflict or how destructive it is to our national security.

00:13:32.000 Okay, that is the whistleblower complaint, right?

00:13:34.000 He is now tweeting out two and a half weeks in advance of Congress knowing about the complaint, what the complaint actually says.

00:13:42.000 So either that is a massive coincidence, or Adam Schiff can read tea leaves like no one else, or somebody in the whistleblower's camp is talking to Adam Schiff.

00:13:51.000 And the latter seems most likely, considering that the original whistleblower complaint was addressed to Richard Burr and Adam Schiff.

00:13:58.000 So what that means is that all of the talk about the whistleblower going through proper procedures and protocols, which is what McGuire said he did, that raises some questions about whether or not this actually was more than that and may in fact be a politically motivated hit in which the whistleblower went around the proper procedures and protocols and directly started coordinating with Adam Schiff, just in time for Adam Schiff to blow this whole thing up.

00:14:20.000 You know, why does that matter?

00:14:21.000 Well, it matters as to the credibility of the whistleblower.

00:14:24.000 It matters as to whether we consider the whistleblower a true whistleblower who saw something disturbing and decided to elevate it up the chain using protocols, or whether the whistleblower was in fact a partisan who was coordinating with fellow partisan Democrats in order to put together a sort of thinly sourced story that is impeachable conduct on the part of the President of the United States.

00:14:46.000 Now in a second, we'll see the Democrats are very enthusiastic about it, but as I say, there are three theories of impeachment.

00:14:54.000 All three are kind of falling apart on impact.

00:14:57.000 I mean, like, within a week of the allegations first breaking.

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00:16:15.000 Okay, so the Democrats are going to ignore for the moment whether or not the whistleblower followed appropriate protocols.

00:16:21.000 That Schiff tweet.

00:16:23.000 To me, raises some very serious questions about that.

00:16:26.000 Chris Matthews over at MSAC last night.

00:16:26.000 And they're very enthusiastic.

00:16:29.000 They got him.

00:16:29.000 Very enthusiastic.

00:16:30.000 They finally got him.

00:16:31.000 This is the moment little Trumpy goes down.

00:16:32.000 Chris Matthews, go!

00:16:33.000 Democrats, if they've got brains and any political savvy, will grab this moment.

00:16:38.000 No more hearings, no more subpoenas, no more contempt citations, no more process.

00:16:44.000 They've got him.

00:16:45.000 And they got him because imagine this is a high crime.

00:16:48.000 It's not something in the statutes.

00:16:50.000 Imagine if in the summer of 1940, Churchill facing the Nazis all alone.

00:16:55.000 It's like the O.J.

00:16:56.000 trial.

00:16:57.000 You get the focus on who killed the woman, who killed the other guy, who did it, and a year later, it focuses all over the place.

00:17:03.000 They don't need more hearings.

00:17:04.000 They don't need more evidence.

00:17:05.000 They got him.

00:17:06.000 It's like O.J.

00:17:07.000 I come on in here, my hair's all rumpled, looking like I just slept two hours after a drinking binge.

00:17:07.000 Simpson.

00:17:13.000 Just kind of roll on in here and talk about how they got him.

00:17:15.000 They finally got him.

00:17:16.000 They finally got little Trumpy.

00:17:18.000 Chris Matthews, I mean, let me say, So, um, no.

00:17:21.000 And then Maxine Waters, the most intelligent among us.

00:17:24.000 I mean, Maxine Waters is really a stellar exemplar of congressional brilliance.

00:17:28.000 She was on with Matt Fredo on CNN, and she explained that the grounds for impeachment are there.

00:17:34.000 What exactly are those grounds, Maxine Waters?

00:17:36.000 Please do tell us.

00:17:37.000 There is enough here for articles of impeachment.

00:17:39.000 Absolutely.

00:17:40.000 Already.

00:17:41.000 The president himself admitted that he had a telephone conversation with the president of Ukraine.

00:17:48.000 He also said he did talk to him about Biden.

00:17:51.000 And I believe that in that conversation, he did exactly what is being said about the conversation by others, that he was asking this president to help him with the kind of investigation That would lead to dirt on Biden.

00:18:07.000 You would accept no other explanation?

00:18:09.000 No, there is no other explanation.

00:18:12.000 Okay, well, that's not enough.

00:18:13.000 Okay, that's not enough.

00:18:14.000 If the allegation is that Trump asked for dirt on Biden, you know who else asked for dirt on their political opponent during the 2016 campaign?

00:18:20.000 From the Ukrainians?

00:18:21.000 That'd be Hillary Clinton, of course.

00:18:22.000 By the way, side note to that Adam Schiff tweet, the one from August 28th, two and a half weeks before he's supposed to know about the complaint.

00:18:29.000 The first reply on that tweet is from Alexandra Chalupa.

00:18:33.000 She tweeted, I have a lot of information on this topic, Congressman.

00:18:35.000 Well-documented information that may be of use to your committee, including coordination of the Trump administration and the Russian Federation to target American citizens and obstruct justice.

00:18:44.000 Who's Alexandra Chalupa?

00:18:45.000 She was the DNC source working with the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Ukrainian embassy in 2016 to target Trump.

00:18:51.000 So, all of this kind of stinks to high heaven.

00:18:53.000 Okay, so, with that said, we have now come to the two theories of the crime.

00:18:58.000 Theory number one, President Trump is engaged in a cover-up.

00:19:02.000 So CNBC reported about the whistleblower complaint yesterday.

00:19:05.000 Damning allegations against President Donald Trump and White House officials were exposed Thursday with the release by Congress of a complaint by a whistleblower who's a member of the U.S.

00:19:13.000 intelligence community.

00:19:15.000 Among them is the whistleblower's belief that Trump's actions were so obviously egregious that White House officials promptly launched a cover-up to minimize the chance that Trump's efforts to have a foreign power dig up dirt on leading Democratic presidential contender would become public.

00:19:29.000 The complaint says that more than a half dozen U.S.

00:19:30.000 officials provided information details in the report over a four-month period.

00:19:35.000 Okay, and the deepest, most difficult allegation, and this is the one that was headlined by both the New York Times and the Washington Post, is that senior White House officials intervened to quote-unquote, lock down records of the call with the Ukrainian president, which quote, according to the whistleblower, underscored to me that White House officials understood the gravity of what had transpired in the call.

00:19:56.000 And so that is the allegation.

00:19:58.000 That White House lawyers directed White House officials to remove the electronic transcript of the Zelensky call from the computer system where such transcripts are normally stored.

00:20:06.000 The transcript was then loaded into a separate electronic computer system that is otherwise used to store and handle classified information of an especially sensitive nature.

00:20:13.000 Okay, so the claim here seems to be twofold.

00:20:15.000 One is that it's somehow a violation of law for Trump to store a transcript in one place versus another place.

00:20:21.000 That's crap.

00:20:22.000 The president's the head of the executive branch.

00:20:23.000 He can store this information however he wants.

00:20:26.000 He can classify, he can declassify.

00:20:28.000 There's no regulation on the books, there's no law on the books that suggests that Trump has to hand around transcripts of confidential conversations that he has with foreign leaders to everybody in the executive branch.

00:20:38.000 So that is not in and of itself a law-breaking activity.

00:20:41.000 So the claim has to be instead that President Trump specifically hid this conversation because he was afraid that this conversation was going to get out.

00:20:49.000 So it's not criminal for him to hide the conversation, but it is indicative of a mindset in which he felt he had done something wrong and in which his lawyers felt he had done something wrong.

00:20:57.000 There is only one problem with this story.

00:21:00.000 That problem It was uncovered by none other than Josh Dowsey and Carol Lennig over at the Washington Post.

00:21:06.000 And they don't understand what they did in this piece.

00:21:08.000 Because they have a piece today called, So everybody is going to studiously ignore the points of this article.

00:21:17.000 But this article completely eviscerates the argument that Trump was covering up the Ukrainian phone call because this phone call was specifically bad.

00:21:26.000 What does this article say?

00:21:29.000 It says that it was common practice in this White House for years to hide the transcripts of phone calls with foreign leaders.

00:21:35.000 Why?

00:21:36.000 Because they figured that the administration was leaky.

00:21:38.000 Why would they figure the administration was leaky?

00:21:40.000 Because the administration's leaky!

00:21:42.000 Because this Ukrainian transcript was immediately circulated to the extent that some rando in the CIA apparently got a hold of the basic idea of it with specifics broad enough that he could file a whistleblower complaint.

00:21:55.000 You wonder why maybe Trump wanted to keep his conversation secret?

00:21:58.000 Maybe because he doesn't trust people in what he calls the deep state.

00:22:01.000 And for good reason, meaning there are career employees in the intelligence community and inside the State Department and inside his own administration who don't like him and would like to leak that information to the public.

00:22:10.000 And so for years, this is the Washington Post, not me, for years, Trump has been taking this sort of stuff and putting it in secret compartments.

00:22:18.000 Which means that this specific conversation is not the rationale for the hiding.

00:22:23.000 He's been hiding this crap for years, not because he's corrupt, but because he's sick of being leaked on.

00:22:28.000 Here's the piece from the Washington Post that completely destroys the cover-up narrative that Democrats are pushing today.

00:22:33.000 First of all, the cover-up narrative makes no sense.

00:22:36.000 I mean, what is the cover-up exactly?

00:22:36.000 It really doesn't.

00:22:39.000 He's covering up a transcript that he released this week?

00:22:42.000 To the public?

00:22:43.000 That both you and I have read?

00:22:45.000 That he's covering up the whistleblower complaint that we read yesterday on the air?

00:22:49.000 That's a bleep cover-up.

00:22:50.000 I mean, it's a crap cover-up right there.

00:22:52.000 That is a crappy cover-up.

00:22:54.000 Anyway, the Washington Post reports, the White House has taken extraordinary steps over the past two years to block details of President Trump's phone calls with foreign leaders from becoming public, following embarrassing disclosures early in his administration that enraged the president and created a sense of paranoia among his top aides.

00:23:11.000 The number of aides allowed to listen on secure drop lines was slashed.

00:23:14.000 The list of government officials who could review a memo of the call's contents was culled.

00:23:19.000 Fewer copies of transcripts went to agencies, and they were stamped with the eyes only do not copy.

00:23:23.000 And some officials who deliver call memos had to sign for the records to create a custody record if they were to leak, according to people familiar with the moves, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe them.

00:23:33.000 At one point in 2018, Defense Department officials were asked to send back transcripts of calls to the White House after Trump aides grew worried they could be disclosed, according to former senior administration officials.

00:23:45.000 And then they say that this Ukrainian thing is part of a pattern.

00:23:48.000 Okay, so let me get this straight.

00:23:51.000 It's a cover-up if he's been doing the exact same thing with every other call for two years?

00:23:56.000 That ain't gonna cut it, that ain't gonna cut it, so we'll get to more on the so-called cover-up in one second, then we'll get to the quid pro quo, which in and of itself is collapsing.

00:24:04.000 We'll get to that in one second as well.

00:24:06.000 First, September is National Life Insurance Awareness Month.

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00:25:10.000 Okay, so once again, just to restate, the three theories of the case of impeachment.

00:25:15.000 I'm gonna keep saying this because it's important that we clarify and we're organized in our thinking.

00:25:20.000 Key theory number one, Trump merely asking the Ukrainians for information on Biden is impeachable.

00:25:25.000 Not true.

00:25:25.000 Nope.

00:25:25.000 Not.

00:25:26.000 Okay, not true.

00:25:27.000 It isn't.

00:25:27.000 It's not a crime.

00:25:28.000 It's not a misdemeanor.

00:25:30.000 It's bad.

00:25:30.000 No.

00:25:31.000 He shouldn't do it.

00:25:32.000 He shouldn't be telling the Ukrainians to investigate his political opponents.

00:25:35.000 I don't like it.

00:25:36.000 You don't like it.

00:25:37.000 Nobody likes it.

00:25:37.000 Not impeachable.

00:25:39.000 Okay, theory number two.

00:25:40.000 There's a massive cover-up.

00:25:41.000 Trump took the doc- he knew something was wrong.

00:25:43.000 He took the documents, he stacked them in an electronic folder, and then he covered it up.

00:25:48.000 Except that you have access to the transcripts, I have access to the transcripts.

00:25:52.000 The House was given access to the complaint, you were given access to the complaint, I was given access to the complaint.

00:25:56.000 So this is the worst cover-up in all of human history.

00:26:00.000 And third point, he didn't specifically cover up this transcript.

00:26:03.000 According to the Washington Post, he's been doing this sort of thing for years because he's afraid of leaking.

00:26:08.000 Why would he be afraid of leaking?

00:26:10.000 Well, maybe because things like the content of the whistleblower complaint are being leaked weeks in advance to Adam Schiff, who's then tweeting them out to the broad public weeks before they are publicly available.

00:26:21.000 Maybe that.

00:26:22.000 Okay, so this brings us to the final and most powerful theory of the impeachment case, and that is the quid pro quo.

00:26:28.000 That is the idea that President Trump withheld the military aid in favor of trying to get the Ukrainians to investigate all of his favorite political causes.

00:26:36.000 That's the theory.

00:26:37.000 And the transcript comes out earlier this week, and the transcript at least lends credence to that theory.

00:26:42.000 The transcript can be read in a couple of different ways.

00:26:44.000 One of those ways is Zelensky trying to pry military aid from President Trump.

00:26:50.000 And President Trump basically saying, I need you to do a bunch of things.

00:26:53.000 I want you to investigate the 2016 election.

00:26:56.000 Also, if you could investigate Joe Biden, that'd be great.

00:26:59.000 That's one way of reading it.

00:26:59.000 The other way of reading it is Zelensky trying to wheedle Trump for help.

00:27:03.000 And Trump basically being like, you know what?

00:27:05.000 I need you to not be corrupt.

00:27:06.000 And my elements of corruption are, I need you to investigate all of these things.

00:27:12.000 And also, I'm not making your aid conditional on that.

00:27:14.000 I'm just saying that's something that I'd like to see you do.

00:27:17.000 Those are the two ways of reading that conversation.

00:27:20.000 Well, obviously the Democrats would like to read this in the most nefarious way, and so Cory Booker, the failing presidential candidate from New Jersey, the senator from New Jersey, Mr. Potato Head, he's on with Ali Velshi over on MSNBC, and he suggests that President Trump is withholding aid, and that is in fact an act of treason, which I guess means that you're gonna what, take Trump out and shoot him?

00:27:42.000 It's an act of treason.

00:27:44.000 By the way, Bernie Sanders also called President Trump treasonous yesterday.

00:27:47.000 Local man who has praised every communist dictatorship of the last 50 years has words about treason.

00:27:52.000 Anyway, here's Cory Booker making that same general point.

00:27:56.000 It's not surprising that Donald Trump doesn't know the difference between patriotism and treason.

00:28:01.000 If there's any treasonous actions here, it is coming from the White House as is being indicated by what we're discovering.

00:28:08.000 And so here again is Donald Trump with sounding more like a threatening thug than giving forth the ideals of a statesman.

00:28:17.000 And and his rhetoric, you know, God, he gives license to people to do dangerous things from his failure to condemn white supremacists to even the way he talks about what is patriotic duty.

00:28:31.000 OK, so this is this is a bit of an overreach.

00:28:37.000 The reason that it's a bit of an overreach is because we're going to go through a couple of rather important notes here.

00:28:43.000 Okay, and here's the point.

00:28:44.000 If you're gonna make a quid pro quo, then you actually have to make the quid clear.

00:28:48.000 If I'm gonna threaten you, then I actually have to make the threat clear.

00:28:51.000 If I want you to cast Johnny Fontaine in your new movie, I'm gonna need to leave a horse's head in your bed.

00:28:56.000 If I want you to cancel your contract with the bandleader, I'm gonna need your brains or your signature on the piece of paper.

00:29:05.000 A threat is a threat only when there is an actual threat, and only when you know there's a threat.

00:29:09.000 Because if I just say to you, I'd love for you to cast Johnny Fontaine in your latest picture, and you say no, and I say, No threat has taken place.

00:29:18.000 That's called a conversation.

00:29:19.000 Once the horse's head shows up in the bed, then the threat is made amply clear.

00:29:24.000 Hey, so, the transcript of the conversation is read in a certain light.

00:29:29.000 Only if the Ukrainians know that military aid is being withheld.

00:29:34.000 And it seems pretty simple.

00:29:35.000 It seems like a pretty simple precondition.

00:29:37.000 If they know that the aid is being withheld, then that obviously creates a darker look for the conversation.

00:29:43.000 Because if they don't know the aid is being withheld, then they're negotiating for what?

00:29:47.000 Like just generalized better relations with Trump.

00:29:49.000 If they know the aid is being withheld, then obviously that makes the conversation look more desperate.

00:29:53.000 It makes it look like President Trump is pressuring.

00:29:55.000 Well, there are a bevy of sources, as we are about to explore, that suggest that the Ukrainians had no idea that the military aid that was being withheld by the Trump administration as of July was actually being withheld.

00:30:08.000 Really?

00:30:09.000 That's not me saying that.

00:30:10.000 That is the Whistleblower complaint saying that.

00:30:12.000 That is the New York Times saying that.

00:30:14.000 That is ABC News saying that.

00:30:16.000 That is the Washington Post saying that.

00:30:18.000 So we're supposed to all believe that a quid pro quo happened, but the baseline sources here say that the Ukrainians weren't even aware that there was a quid.

00:30:28.000 We'll get to that in just one second.

00:30:30.000 First, let's talk about relaxing, feeling better about life, feeling better about yourself, giving up to God, what it is that he is in control of.

00:30:39.000 You can only control the stuff that is in front of you.

00:30:40.000 One of the things that I do as an Orthodox Jew is I pray three times daily.

00:30:44.000 And it is a comfort to me.

00:30:45.000 I think that it is important.

00:30:46.000 It puts me back in touch with things that are larger than myself.

00:30:50.000 Well, if you haven't really had time to take the time out to pray, or if maybe your praying hasn't been exactly what you want it to be, there's a great, great new app and new website out there, and it's called Pray.com.

00:31:01.000 It's the number one app for prayer and sleep.

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00:31:27.000 I remember I used to have insomnia problems when I was over at Harvard Law School and I'd call up my dad and he would say, you know, why don't you pray a little bit?

00:31:33.000 Really, because then you give up control, and it does allow you to relax a lot more.

00:31:37.000 Well, this is one thing that Pray.com is great for.

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00:31:55.000 By downloading the Pray.com app at Pray.com slash Ben.

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00:32:11.000 Check them out.

00:32:12.000 Pray.com slash Ben.

00:32:14.000 Okay.

00:32:15.000 So, I have a special treat for you today.

00:32:18.000 I'm not going to cut off the stream.

00:32:20.000 We're going to go all the way to the end because there's too much breaking news.

00:32:22.000 We'll get to all that in just a second.

00:32:24.000 First, a couple announcements.

00:32:25.000 Make sure that you tune in today, 7 p.m.

00:32:27.000 Eastern, 4 p.m.

00:32:27.000 Pacific, for our latest episode of The Conversation.

00:32:29.000 Ooh, I will be here for an extra hour answering your questions live on air via the lovely Alicia Krauss, my sister, so make them good.

00:32:37.000 The episode will be free for everyone to watch on Facebook and YouTube, but only subscribers can ask the questions.

00:32:42.000 So subscribe to Daily Wire to get your questions answered by me today, 7 p.m.

00:32:45.000 Eastern, 4 p.m.

00:32:46.000 Pacific, and join the conversation.

00:32:48.000 Also, we have a great Sunday special that is coming up this week.

00:32:51.000 You get it early on Saturday if you're a subscriber and you go get the beverage vessel and all of that, 99 bucks a year, you know the pitch.

00:32:56.000 Our Sunday special this week features National Review's Ramesh Ponnuru, who stops by to discuss all things Trump and election related.

00:33:03.000 Here's a little bit of what it sounded like.

00:33:07.000 People are not willing to concede that intelligent people of goodwill can be on the other side of them from an issue.

00:33:14.000 It's very easy to think of a kind of faceless abstraction of conservatives or liberals, and they're all terrible people.

00:33:22.000 Okay, so go check it out.

00:33:29.000 It really is great.

00:33:29.000 We have so many good Sunday specials coming up.

00:33:32.000 Really, like, some really awesome ones.

00:33:33.000 It is that glorious time of the week when I give a shout-out to a Dailyware subscriber as well.

00:33:36.000 Today, it is Twitterer Josh Scroggins, whose exceptionally high standards have enriched his life deeply.

00:33:42.000 I mean, look at this right here.

00:33:43.000 In the pic, Josh has placed his elite beverage vessel next to his elite bag of coffee and a handsome coffee press.

00:33:48.000 I mean...

00:33:49.000 Ooh, I'm getting thirsty for some Black Rifle coffee right now.

00:33:51.000 Now, he writes, Ben Shapiro, I made a Twitter account just to show off my leftist tears Tumblr along with my bag of Black Rifle coffee, the finest coffee on the market, by the way.

00:33:58.000 Can't get more American than this.

00:33:59.000 As I sipped it down this morning, a bald eagle circled my house and I heard the Star Spangled Banner playing.

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00:34:29.000 Okay, so Quid McPros.

00:34:37.000 So we're told that there's a quid-pro-quo.

00:34:39.000 Quid-pro-quo.

00:34:40.000 Cory Booker says there's a quid-pro-quo.

00:34:42.000 Elizabeth Warren says quid-pro-quo.

00:34:44.000 Right?

00:34:44.000 That it's there.

00:34:45.000 That for sure, Trump threatened the Ukrainians.

00:34:46.000 He pressured the Ukrainians.

00:34:47.000 Pressured and threatened and pushed.

00:34:49.000 In order for there to be pressure and threats and pushing, you have to push with something.

00:34:52.000 I have to threaten you with something.

00:34:54.000 What if you're not aware of something I'm pushing you with?

00:34:58.000 Yeah, I remember a while back.

00:35:00.000 I have a brother-in-law who is an engineering student, really brilliant kid over in college.

00:35:05.000 I won't mention which one for his own safety.

00:35:07.000 And I remember when he was a little kid.

00:35:09.000 I've been married for 11 years, so I've known him since before he was bar mitzvah.

00:35:13.000 And I remember when he was a very little kid, there was a girl in his class who he was sort of friends with and then not friends with and then friends with and not friends with.

00:35:19.000 And at one point, I remember him announcing to the table that he was no longer friends with this girl.

00:35:24.000 And we said, why aren't you friends with this girl anymore?

00:35:26.000 He said, well, she earned too many negative points.

00:35:29.000 And we said, well, what do you mean?

00:35:32.000 He said, well, I have a system and every time she says something I don't like, I put a point on the board against her and then she earned too many negative points and I don't want to be friends with her anymore.

00:35:40.000 And we said, well, was she aware that you had this system, this point system?

00:35:44.000 And he said, no.

00:35:45.000 And we all laughed because that's silly.

00:35:48.000 Meaning like, if you want to incentivize a behavior, you have to make people, you may have to make the consequences clear.

00:35:52.000 Okay, so what if, what if, just putting it out there, what if Ukraine had no idea that Trump was withholding military aid?

00:36:00.000 What if they had no clue?

00:36:01.000 What if that whole conversation with Vladimir Zelensky, between Trump and Vladimir Zelensky, took place with Trump understanding that he was withholding military aid, but Ukraine not knowing at all?

00:36:11.000 Not knowing.

00:36:12.000 That would be weird, wouldn't it?

00:36:13.000 That would sort of undercut the quid pro quo argument, would it not?

00:36:16.000 I quote to you today from the Washington Post.

00:36:19.000 The whistleblower complaint doesn't dwell upon the quid pro quo too much, saying it wasn't clear Ukraine was even aware that aid was being withheld What it does say is that officials believe Trump dangled a meeting with Zelensky as a reward to play ball.

00:36:34.000 So, in other words, it wasn't about military aid at all.

00:36:37.000 It was about just, like, the prestige of meeting with Trump.

00:36:39.000 That was the big quid pro quo?

00:36:41.000 Really?

00:36:42.000 That Zelensky had to go investigate Biden or Trump wouldn't, like, get together with him or something?

00:36:48.000 Seriously?

00:36:49.000 That's the quid pro quo?

00:36:51.000 That is a little different, in nature and kind, from, I'm withholding $400 in crucial military aid in a time of war, unless you investigate my political opponent, is it not?

00:37:00.000 Little bit different.

00:37:02.000 And by the way, that quote from the Washington Post is merely paraphrasing what the whistleblower complaint itself says, quote, As of early August, I heard from U.S.

00:37:10.000 officials that some Ukrainian officials were aware that U.S.

00:37:13.000 aid might be in jeopardy.

00:37:15.000 But I do not know how or when they learned of it.

00:37:17.000 Now, I'm no expert on time.

00:37:20.000 There are people, Neil deGrasse Tyson, who can explain the physics of time to you better than I can.

00:37:25.000 But I am of the solid belief that early August is after late July.

00:37:30.000 So if Ukrainian officials were only aware that Ukrainian aid was being withheld in August, and the call with Zelensky happened in July, then there can't be a quid pro quo on the call in July, can there?

00:37:44.000 Because the quid is not made clear.

00:37:47.000 Okay, but don't take my word for it or the whistleblower's word for it.

00:37:50.000 Let's take the New York Times' word for it.

00:37:51.000 This is a story four days ago, right before the release of the transcript.

00:37:55.000 Quote, Mr. Trump did not discuss the delay in the military assistance on the July 25th call with Mr. Zelensky, according to people familiar with the conversation.

00:38:03.000 A Ukrainian official said Mr. Zelensky's government did not learn of the delay until about one month after the call.

00:38:11.000 So again, the entire theory of the quid pro quo is that Zelensky's sitting there, you know, really sweating it because Trump is withholding 400 million bucks in military aid in a time of war.

00:38:21.000 I mean, that was what Chris Matthews said, right?

00:38:23.000 That this is just like 1940, if Churchill was fighting the Nazis and the United States tried to pressure Churchill to investigate domestic political opponents, to receive aid during Lend-Lease or something.

00:38:33.000 Except that Ukraine was not aware that military aid was being withheld, according to the New York Times.

00:38:38.000 Now, wouldn't you imagine?

00:38:39.000 Let's say that we had an honest media for just a- I know, I'm being silly.

00:38:43.000 I know it's silly.

00:38:44.000 But let's imagine we had an honest media for a moment.

00:38:47.000 It seems that there would be a few questions they'd want to pursue in this investigation.

00:38:51.000 One of them, a serious question would be, did you even know that military aid was being withheld when you were talking to Trump?

00:38:59.000 If the answer is no, it's gonna be kinda hard to claim a quid pro quo.

00:39:04.000 And it turns out that ABC News did try to follow this rabbit hole, and it ended up completely blowing up on them.

00:39:11.000 According to the Washington Free Beacon, an ABC News report that an advisor to the Ukrainian president said any communication with President Trump had to include discussion of former VP Joe Biden, published Wednesday night, fell apart within hours.

00:39:23.000 ABC credited its scoop to Sergei Lashchenko, a former member of Ukraine's parliament and a former advisor to Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky.

00:39:30.000 Leschenko now disputes the story, denying he told ABC News that discussion of a potential probe into the Biden family's business activity in the country was a precondition for communication with Trump.

00:39:42.000 ABC quoted Leschenko as saying, quote, It was a clear fact that Trump wants to meet only if Biden case will be included.

00:39:48.000 According to ABC, he added the Biden case was raised many times.

00:39:52.000 And Ukrainian officials understood.

00:39:53.000 I quoted this story yesterday on the show because this was a very big story.

00:39:57.000 Just hours after it was published, Leschenko rejected the story.

00:40:00.000 He told Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty's Christopher Miller he did not tell ABC that insistence for leaders to discuss the Biden probe was a precondition for the call.

00:40:10.000 Leschenko also spoke to BBC's Jonah Fisher, who added that the former Ukrainian official learned of the quid pro quo rumors only from media reports.

00:40:21.000 So in other words, what happened here?

00:40:24.000 This guy heard the media rumor mongering about a quid pro quo and then he was asked about it and he's like, sounds plausible.

00:40:30.000 And then the media ran with that and said, oh, he's a source.

00:40:33.000 He has inside information.

00:40:36.000 There was a loop, an informational feedback loop.

00:40:38.000 Unbelievable.

00:40:39.000 Okay, so we now have no information that Zelensky even knew.

00:40:44.000 All we need is Zelensky saying the other way, right?

00:40:46.000 There are no Ukrainian sources to this point of whom I am aware saying that they knew that military aid was even being withheld when Zelensky has this conversation with Trump.

00:40:55.000 I mean, that pretty much takes that quid pro quo case and trashes it, doesn't it?

00:41:03.000 Or at least it severely damages it.

00:41:05.000 So, in the last 24 hours, the quid pro quo case has started to collapse in on itself like a dying star.

00:41:11.000 And the cover-up case, which already was super weak since all the materials are publicly available, it now turns out that was completely exploded by the Washington Post pointing out that, oh, by the way, it wasn't just the Ukraine conversation that Trump was attempting to hide, he's been hiding all his conversations.

00:41:25.000 Okay, well, unless you think Trump was trying to bribe everyone on Earth, Then maybe that's just common practice.

00:41:29.000 And maybe the reason it's common practice is because Trump correctly is afraid that people inside the administration do not like him and want to leak information about him to Democrats and the press.

00:41:41.000 I mean, I don't like... So Trump yesterday, he got in a lot of hot water because he was talking about the whistleblower and people who had talked to the whistleblower and he was ripping on so-called spies.

00:41:51.000 He said that these are... Are they whistleblowers or are they spies?

00:41:54.000 Spies need to be punished.

00:41:55.000 Here's President Trump going off on it.

00:41:57.000 I want to know, who's the person that gave the whistleblower?

00:42:01.000 Who's the person that gave the whistleblower the information?

00:42:04.000 Because that's close to a spy.

00:42:06.000 You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart, right?

00:42:10.000 The spies and treason, right?

00:42:12.000 We used to handle it a little differently than we do now.

00:42:15.000 Okay, so obviously you don't want the President of the United States going out there and saying that whistleblowers are like spies and should be shot.

00:42:21.000 I will point out that Bill Weld did say that the President is a traitor.

00:42:24.000 The penalty for treason in the United States is still death.

00:42:27.000 Cory Booker said the same thing, but do you want Trump saying that?

00:42:30.000 No.

00:42:30.000 However, his ire about the whistleblower?

00:42:33.000 It's really not justified unless you believe that the whistleblower is a leaker.

00:42:36.000 Unless you believe that the whistleblower did not follow proper protocol.

00:42:38.000 Now, the acting DNI said that he thought that the whistleblower did follow proper protocol.

00:42:43.000 But to go back to that Schiff tweet from August 28th, I'm wondering where he got that info, guys.

00:42:48.000 It's a little weird.

00:42:49.000 It's a little weird that Adam Schiff, two and a half weeks before the existence of this intelligence complaint, the whistleblower complaint, was even reported to Congress.

00:43:00.000 Adam Schiff was tweeting out its contents.

00:43:03.000 That makes me think that maybe, just like with the Mueller report, just like with the people in the FBI who didn't like Trump, that maybe there are in fact people inside the administration who do not like Trump.

00:43:13.000 And that when a transcript is disseminated, and they interpret it in the worst possible way, because they honestly don't like Trump and they honestly think he's corrupt, and then they all talk about it with each other, and then that is formulated into a whistleblower complaint, and then that whistleblower complaint is leaked to Democrats, in advance of going up the chain.

00:43:30.000 That's a problem.

00:43:32.000 That is a problem.

00:43:34.000 You don't want just, and it's a, by the way, it's a bipartisan problem.

00:43:37.000 You don't want the president's private conversations with foreign leaders being subjected to congressional scrutiny at every turn.

00:43:44.000 You cannot have a functioning foreign policy that way.

00:43:46.000 Congress has the power to declare war, but the president has to have confidential discussions with foreign leaders all the time.

00:43:52.000 It was true of Barack Obama.

00:43:54.000 It was true of Donald Trump.

00:43:56.000 Yesterday, there was a woman who called in and she said, you know, to the radio show, and she said, yeah, President Trump, He's constantly in this gray area, right?

00:43:56.000 It was interesting.

00:44:04.000 All these conversations show him in this gray area.

00:44:06.000 And then another caller called in and said, well, you think Obama wasn't in a gray area when he was like talking with Iran?

00:44:11.000 It turns out that the president is constantly operating in this sort of fuzzy gray area when it comes to foreign policy.

00:44:17.000 Now, Trump may step into the dog-do on a regular basis.

00:44:22.000 He may bring his bizarre sense of what is important, like crowd-strike stories, into conversations with Ukraine.

00:44:29.000 But is he acting wildly out of concert with former presidents who are constantly negotiating with foreign adversaries and foreign allies for information, for things we want them to do?

00:44:40.000 We don't know, in many cases, because those transcripts aren't made public.

00:44:44.000 And Trump, because he is worried, correctly so, about people inside the executive branch who don't like him, has been hiding this stuff for years.

00:44:52.000 And then, by the way, again, it's not a cover-up if you say to him, Mr. President, turn it over, and he's like, okay, here.

00:44:57.000 That's not a cover-up.

00:44:59.000 That's not a cover-up.

00:45:00.000 So, here's where we are.

00:45:02.000 There is no quid pro quo that we are aware of.

00:45:06.000 That transcript, which could be read in a couple different ways, it looks a lot better for Trump if the Ukrainians didn't know that military aid was being withheld.

00:45:14.000 And also, the cover-up thing is just not a thing.

00:45:17.000 So, where is the impeachable offense, again?

00:45:20.000 Where is this?

00:45:21.000 Democrats have to charge hard forward, because now that Nancy Pelosi has pre-committed, she has to do it.

00:45:25.000 Is it gonna damage her?

00:45:26.000 Probably not.

00:45:26.000 People who hate Trump, hate Trump.

00:45:28.000 People who love Trump, love Trump.

00:45:29.000 People in the middle may be annoyed with Nancy Pelosi, but I've never been of the theory that impeaching a president means that you are doomed to lose the next election.

00:45:37.000 That's not what happened with Bill Clinton.

00:45:39.000 I'd hurt Newt Gingrich to impeach President Clinton, but George W. Bush may have become president in 2000 because Bill Clinton was impeached.

00:45:47.000 Remember, Al Gore could not campaign with Bill Clinton because he was so afraid that Bill Clinton's Reputation for being a hound dog would really hurt him.

00:45:56.000 It's the reason why Al Gore was tonguing his then-wife, Tipper, on the stage at the DNC, because he was trying to prove what a grand example of fidelity he was.

00:46:04.000 Turns out later... But, at the time, that campaign was George W. Bush saying, I'm gonna restore honor to the White House, and Al Gore saying, no, honor is already in the White House.

00:46:13.000 Also, Bill Clinton, can you exit through the back door over here?

00:46:15.000 So impeachment doesn't necessarily hurt the party that undertakes the impeachment.

00:46:19.000 I think Pelosi knows that.

00:46:21.000 With that said, I don't see the grounds for impeachment here.

00:46:23.000 I don't.

00:46:25.000 You want to provide me the information?

00:46:25.000 You want to prove it to me?

00:46:27.000 I'm always willing to change my opinion with new information, but not based on this information.

00:46:31.000 Now, there are a bunch of people in the media who are circling in on comments that have now been made by a couple of different Republicans about how many Senate Republicans would vote for Trump's impeachment if there were a secret vote.

00:46:41.000 So Jeff Flake, who is the former senator from Arizona, and obviously he and Trump have been longtime adversaries, he apparently suggested, quote, I heard someone say if there were a private vote on impeachment in the Senate, there would be 30 Republican votes.

00:46:55.000 There would be at least 35.

00:46:55.000 That's not true.

00:46:58.000 And people are taking that to mean, oh, well, that means that secretly they want to impeach him, but they're cowards.

00:47:02.000 Secretly, they know he's a criminal, but they're cowards.

00:47:05.000 Or alternatively, in wish fulfillment land, a lot of Republicans are tired of defending every silly thing that Trump says.

00:47:12.000 And in the best of all possible worlds, they would love Trump's policies without the Trumpian nonsense.

00:47:16.000 But that does not mean that they would actually vote to impeach him.

00:47:21.000 That hypothetical makes no sense.

00:47:23.000 If voting in the Senate were secret, then you could simply vote for anything that you wanted.

00:47:28.000 The whole point of a representative democracy is that we know how people vote so we can make them answerable to us.

00:47:35.000 If I could get everybody in our office together and we could all take a secret vote on how many of them would like to kill me and take my money, I have a feeling it would be fairly unanimous.

00:47:42.000 However, that does not mean that if we took an open vote, the feelings would be the same, because there are consequences to voting, and there are standards that have to be upheld when it comes to voting.

00:47:52.000 What a dumb line, and the media have been following that line.

00:47:54.000 Oh, well, this means that the Republicans, you know, they really want to impeach Trump.

00:47:58.000 Okay, no, what it really means is that a lot of Republicans are annoyed with having to defend Trump all the time.

00:48:02.000 I'm sure that is true.

00:48:03.000 I'm sure, by the way, I'm sure that was true the day after he was elected.

00:48:06.000 I'm sure that if Republicans had the magical ability in the Senate to snap their fingers and make Trump be replaced by Mike Pence on January 21st, 2017, they would have done it.

00:48:16.000 I'm sure they would have.

00:48:17.000 Why?

00:48:17.000 Because it makes their life easier.

00:48:18.000 Because then they don't have to deal with whatever nonsense Trump is saying on Twitter in their Senate elections.

00:48:23.000 But that's not how the system works, nor is that how the system should work.

00:48:27.000 Now meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani, I mean, I will say, White House, Mr. President, stop sending Rudy Giuliani on TV.

00:48:36.000 It's a very bad idea.

00:48:38.000 Rudy Giuliani's terrible on TV.

00:48:41.000 Stop it!

00:48:42.000 Turning into Jim Gaffigan over here.

00:48:44.000 Stop it!

00:48:45.000 Rudy Giuliani was on Laura Ingraham's show suggesting that he is the real whistleblower.

00:48:50.000 Like, what is the point of having Rudy Giuliani on TV?

00:48:52.000 You know, the president is pursuing what the Washington Post today has called a scorched earth defense policy.

00:48:52.000 We don't have to do this.

00:48:57.000 It's not necessary.

00:48:58.000 It was not necessary with Mueller.

00:49:00.000 It wasn't.

00:49:01.000 You know why?

00:49:02.000 Because they didn't have the goods.

00:49:03.000 If they don't have the goods here, it ain't going nowhere.

00:49:06.000 And sending out Rudy Giuliani to rail at the wind, a la King Lear, in his crazy stage is not actually a great idea.

00:49:13.000 Here's Rudy Giuliani shouting about how he's the real whistleblower.

00:49:16.000 I actually think they should all congratulate me.

00:49:19.000 Because if it weren't for me, nobody would have uncovered and faced massive corruption by the Vice President of the United States.

00:49:27.000 In fact, I'm a legitimate whistleblower.

00:49:30.000 I have uncovered corruption that this Washington swamp has been covering up effectively for years.

00:49:38.000 And his State Department, you know, asked me to do this.

00:49:41.000 So Mike, if you're unhappy with me, I'm sorry, but I accomplished my mission.

00:49:46.000 Okay, so again, this does raise, again, there are a couple of outstanding questions that the Trump administration should answer.

00:49:51.000 Why is Rudy Giuliani being deployed by the State Department to Ukraine is a big one.

00:49:55.000 Like isn't that, like I said all along, there are two questions I don't know the answer to.

00:49:58.000 Why Trump withdrew aid from Ukraine in the first place?

00:50:00.000 I think that should be answered.

00:50:01.000 And two, why the hell is Rudy Giuliani being deployed by the State Department to Ukraine?

00:50:06.000 So I'm not saying they're not questions that should be answered by the White House.

00:50:09.000 I'm saying that the burden of proof is on Democrats and so far their entire impeachment case hinges on either a cover-up that doesn't exist or a quid pro quo of which by best sourcing, and I'm talking New York Times, whistleblower complaint itself, Washington Post, ABC News, The quid pro quo was not even made, like the Ukrainians weren't even aware of it.

00:50:30.000 So you're gonna have to do better than that.

00:50:32.000 Also, Trump should, like, really stop.

00:50:35.000 Why is Rudy Giuliani on TV?

00:50:36.000 Like, what?

00:50:37.000 Okay, time for a couple of things that I like.

00:50:40.000 So, thing that I like number one today.

00:50:43.000 So, as you all know, we advertise with, Birch Gold Group advertises with us.

00:50:48.000 And I had the opportunity to sit down with Philip Patrick yesterday and talk a little bit about the reasons why you might want to invest in precious metals, at least take some of your money and diversify a little bit.

00:50:57.000 Here's what it sounded like.

00:51:00.000 Well, as you know, we here at the Ben Shapiro Show are big fans of Birch Gold.

00:51:03.000 Why?

00:51:04.000 Well, because I know the people at Birch Gold and they are reliable.

00:51:06.000 They're going to give you all the information that you need about investing in precious metals.

00:51:10.000 As it turns out, now is a very good time to invest in precious metals, thanks to all the uncertainty and instability.

00:51:15.000 Here to discuss all of that is Philip Patrick.

00:51:17.000 He's the precious metals specialist over at Birch Gold Group.

00:51:19.000 Philip, thanks so much for joining the show.

00:51:20.000 I really appreciate it.

00:51:21.000 Thanks for having me.

00:51:22.000 So, why don't you explain kind of where we are in the market.

00:51:25.000 So, last time you were on, last time we chatted, we were talking about the inverted yield curve and the possibility of a market downturn.

00:51:32.000 So, where do we stand with that particular factor?

00:51:34.000 Yeah, last time I was on, it was back in December and there was a partial inversion of the yield curve, essentially on the 3 and the 10-year Treasury.

00:51:43.000 Recently, we've seen a full inversion, which is the 2 and the 10.

00:51:47.000 That is essentially a major indicator of recession to follow.

00:51:50.000 It means two-year interest rates are currently higher than 10-year interest rates on treasuries.

00:51:56.000 One of the most accurate indicators of recession of any other, in fact.

00:52:01.000 For the last 50 years, the yield curve has inverted prior to every major recession, with no exceptions.

00:52:08.000 And it typically gives us a time frame, on average, of about 12 to 18 months until we see recession.

00:52:14.000 And that's because people are running to invest in short term bonds because they're afraid of the stock market, correct?

00:52:19.000 Correct.

00:52:19.000 Yeah.

00:52:20.000 Long term prospects for the market don't look good.

00:52:22.000 So short term looks attractive, you know, as opposed to sort of timing the market out longer term.

00:52:28.000 So what exactly are the factors that you're looking at when you when you worry about what's going to happen with the stock market?

00:52:34.000 Obviously, the stock market has been consistently going up.

00:52:36.000 It's sort of faltered.

00:52:38.000 It's sort of been flat over the past year.

00:52:40.000 Which factors are you looking at?

00:52:41.000 Look, there's a lot of different things.

00:52:43.000 We mentioned the yield curve last time I was on.

00:52:45.000 We discussed price to earning ratios, which are historically out of whack right now.

00:52:49.000 I mean, just looking at the market in general, it is cyclical, right?

00:52:54.000 We can go back Almost as long as we like to see that.

00:52:58.000 It'll grow aggressively but also correct almost as a rule once every decade.

00:53:03.000 This is now officially the longest bull market in history.

00:53:08.000 Never have we seen 11 years of consistent and uninterrupted growth without correction.

00:53:13.000 So I think timing alone is starting to tell us we've got a crash on the cards.

00:53:17.000 And you were telling me before the show that you're actually looking at some indicators that corporate insiders, people who know a lot about companies, are selling their stocks more often because they're looking at the market and they're pretty nervous about it.

00:53:27.000 That's absolutely correct.

00:53:29.000 I mean, we've seen institutional investors tend to have an uncanny ability to preempt a crash.

00:53:37.000 We have seen significant insider selling of stocks recently.

00:53:40.000 August we saw $60 million a day and August was the fifth month of this year that we've seen over $10 billion of institutional money flowing out of the markets.

00:53:51.000 The only other time we've seen this sort of level was back in 06 and 07, the period before the last bear market in stocks and ultimately the 08 crash.

00:54:00.000 So it's a real sign.

00:54:02.000 So what is the best way, as if we didn't know, but what is the best way to protect yourself against this sort of stuff?

00:54:07.000 Because there's a lot of worry about inflation of the currency in order to battle the possible economic downturn.

00:54:12.000 President Trump keeps talking about lowering the interest rates, which obviously would have an impact on the currency and the levels of lending.

00:54:19.000 So why should people look at precious metals as opposed to some of the alternatives?

00:54:23.000 Look, gold and silver are strong safe havens.

00:54:29.000 They perform during times of market correction.

00:54:32.000 They're designed really over longer periods of time to hold value.

00:54:37.000 I think the key in this climate is very much to try and be preemptive.

00:54:42.000 We mentioned institutional money.

00:54:44.000 Flying out of the market recently it did so back in oh six as well The key is the mindset, you know individuals often can be very reactive, right?

00:54:52.000 They wait for something to happen Panic and react to the market oftentimes.

00:54:57.000 The opportunity is lost at that point The key is to be preemptive the old saying goes it's better to be six months too early than just a second too late And one of the things that you've talked about before is that, you know, it's not a risky move to move into precious metals.

00:55:13.000 It is actually a safer move, at least in terms of diversification.

00:55:16.000 You've never suggested that everybody should sell every stock they own, buy gold bars and bury them in the desert.

00:55:21.000 No, a hundred percent not.

00:55:22.000 No, you hit the nail on the head.

00:55:24.000 It's about diversification.

00:55:25.000 I think ultimately putting together a hedge.

00:55:28.000 Gold, precious metals are contrarian to the markets.

00:55:32.000 So the idea by taking a portion and putting it into a safe haven, if we see losses on one side, the idea is that that climate should drive safe havens up.

00:55:41.000 And the idea is that losses on one side can be mitigated by growth on the other.

00:55:45.000 And I think that's the key.

00:55:46.000 So I've talked about Birch Gold Group, why I think they do a great job with helping you invest in precious metals.

00:55:50.000 Why don't you talk a little bit about what is sort of the advantage of Birch Gold Group as opposed to buying from somewhere else?

00:55:55.000 Of course.

00:55:55.000 I mean, it's our size, our buying power.

00:55:58.000 And ultimately, I think we take a very educational approach, right?

00:56:01.000 For us, it's all about the customer understanding the benefits.

00:56:06.000 And really, I think if you have comfort level with a move, it allows you to make a decision from a fully informed perspective and in the right way.

00:56:13.000 And that's key for us.

00:56:14.000 Well, you see why I trust the people at Birchgold Group.

00:56:17.000 I trust them because they will answer your questions.

00:56:19.000 As I say, you should give them a call at Birchgold Group.

00:56:21.000 You should check them out online.

00:56:22.000 And then you should ask all of your questions.

00:56:24.000 People like Philip will be there to answer those questions.

00:56:26.000 Get educated.

00:56:27.000 Make sure that you feel comfortable.

00:56:28.000 And then when you are comfortable, then maybe you should think about taking at least some of your money and putting it into precious metals as a method of diversification.

00:56:35.000 Philip, thanks so much for stopping by.

00:56:36.000 I really appreciate it.

00:56:36.000 Thanks for having me.

00:56:38.000 Okay now another quick thing that I like because here's the deal folks I am off on Monday and Tuesday unless something breaks over the weekend in which case I would record a show on Sunday maybe for Monday but because it's Rosh Hashanah I'm not gonna be on for another four days so I want to leave you with a good feeling so yesterday I have kids who are five and three and they have never seen Hook I know this is one of those movies where if you were an adult in like 1991 1992 and you saw this movie like oh god that was a long movie I didn't like that movie so much and if you are a kid this was iconic I was born in 84.

00:57:05.000 So, when I watch this movie, I have so much nostalgia for this movie, it's crazy.

00:57:09.000 And now, obviously, because of what happened with Robin Williams, you have even more nostalgia and there's a certain sadness attached to it.

00:57:15.000 It's not a great movie, but it has some really great moments.

00:57:19.000 It does.

00:57:20.000 Also, weird note, Dustin Hoffman modeled his accent in the movie as Hook on William F. Buckley.

00:57:24.000 But in any case, there's one moment in the movie that is just...

00:57:27.000 A beautiful, beautiful moment, and now that I'm a parent, being a parent wrecks you.

00:57:30.000 I mean, it really does.

00:57:31.000 Like, I used to be imperturbable.

00:57:33.000 I used to have no emotions at all.

00:57:35.000 I still have very few.

00:57:36.000 But, being a dad really screws you up.

00:57:40.000 And so, I was watching this scene last night with my kids.

00:57:43.000 I got my son, who's three, on one side of me, and my daughter, who's five, on the other side of me.

00:57:48.000 We're all watching this movie together.

00:57:49.000 We get to the scene, and I am crying like a baby.

00:57:52.000 Here is the best scene in the movie.

00:57:54.000 If you've never seen Hook, spoiler alert, you can watch it later, but, Here is part of the best scene in the movie.

00:57:58.000 Peter Pan, who is played by Robin Williams, has grown up and he's now in his 30s and he's got a couple of kids.

00:58:05.000 And he's forgotten that he's Peter Pan.

00:58:06.000 His kids get kidnapped by Hook.

00:58:07.000 This is the basic plot of the movie.

00:58:08.000 And he ends up having to go back to Neverland in order to save them.

00:58:13.000 But he's forgotten that he's Peter Pan.

00:58:14.000 And so the movie is about him remembering that he's Peter Pan and remembering how to fly.

00:58:19.000 And of course, to fly, according to the Peter Pan story, you need to have a happy thought.

00:58:23.000 His whole life has been I can see why you have trouble finding a happy thought.

00:58:26.000 So many sad memories, Peter.

00:58:27.000 trouble and sad, right?

00:58:28.000 He's an orphan who lives by himself, and then he gives up being with the lost boys in order to go back to the real world, and then he ages.

00:58:34.000 So what exactly is his happy thought?

00:58:36.000 And this is where Peter remembers his happy thought.

00:58:37.000 I can see why you have trouble finding a happy thought.

00:58:43.000 So many sad memories, Peter.

00:58:46.000 Bye, Daddy.

00:58:49.000 Not Daddy.

00:58:53.000 Daddy.

00:58:54.000 Daddy.

00:58:56.000 Oh, Peter.

00:59:01.000 Peter, you're a daddy?

00:59:05.000 Hi, Jack.

00:59:08.000 I know why I came back.

00:59:09.000 I know why I grew up.

00:59:12.000 I wanted to be a father.

00:59:15.000 I'm a daddy.

00:59:20.000 My happy thought.

00:59:22.000 I got it.

00:59:24.000 I got it!

00:59:25.000 I found it!

00:59:26.000 I lost it!

00:59:29.000 Just hold that heavy thought, Peter!

00:59:40.000 It's a great scene.

00:59:41.000 And of course this is when he remembers that he is in fact Peter Pan and he can fly and the whole deal.

00:59:46.000 I'm telling you, being a parent, it totally changes your life.

00:59:49.000 So if you're thinking about it, and you're married, go make it happen.

00:59:52.000 It'll make your life better, it'll make your life richer, and it'll completely wreck you emotionally.

00:59:55.000 Alrighty, we'll be back here a little bit later today with a couple additional hours of content.

00:59:59.000 Otherwise, we will see you here next week.

01:00:00.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

01:00:01.000 This is The Ben Shapiro Show.

01:00:02.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is produced by Robert Sterling.

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01:00:11.000 Executive producer, Jeremy Boring.

01:00:13.000 Senior producer, Jonathan Hay.

01:00:15.000 Our supervising producer is Mathis Glover.

01:00:18.000 And our technical producer is Austin Stevens.

01:00:20.000 Assistant director, Pavel Wydowski.

01:00:22.000 Edited by Adam Siovitz.

01:00:24.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Koromina.

01:00:25.000 Hair and makeup is by Jesua Olvera.

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01:00:29.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is a Daily Wire production.

01:00:31.000 Copyright Daily Wire 2019.

01:00:33.000 On The Matt Walsh Show, we're not just discussing politics.

01:00:37.000 We're talking culture, faith, family, all of the things that are really important to you.

The Ben Shapiro Show - September 27, 2019

Is The Democratic Theory Already Collapsing? | Ep. 870

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