Jonathan Isaac s story is a turbulent but inspiring one. As the number one basketball player in the state of Florida in 2017, he was drafted by the Orlando Magic. He faced serious injury in his rookie year, but he came back the following year as a starter in 64 games and achieved several career highs. The next year, he would buck the league again for choosing not to take the COID19 vaccine. In our episode, Jonathan and I get into the significant choices and risks that have made his journey encouraging for so many Americans. This show is sponsored by ExpressVPN. It s time to stand up against big tech. Protect your data at Express VPN.com slash BenShapiro on The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special with Ben Shapiro. Why I Stand is a book written by Jonathan Isaac, and is sure to be a massive bestseller. It details his decision to stand for the national anthem and declare that the love of God is the answer to all of the world s problems, and that racism is not the answer, but that God alone is the problem. The book will be available for purchase on Amazon Prime and Vimeo worldwide. Thank you so much for joining the show. Ben Shapiro and the entire team at Jump Ministries. This is a show dedicated to helping people find their voice in a world that s loud and clear in their truth and loud enough to be heard. -Ben Shapiro and his staff at the podcast, and the people who care enough to share their truth in their time and love in their own words and their truth, and their story is loud enough so that they can be heard everywhere and everywhere they care it matters it matters the most of it too much, too much more than they do it, and they deserve it all of it, so they should be heard it, too they should care it, they are it, it s not enough, they really do it and they get it, right they really should be it, really they really really really it really does it, their chance to be it? - Thank you, thank you, really really is it really really does, really is that it's that really is, they're it, etc., really really means it's really really, really it's not that they're that really they're not it, truly they're really really ... it's them, they actually really really they truly they really truly they actually they really ... they really are it really is them, right it really ...
00:00:01.000And if the money was to go tomorrow, if the fame was to go tomorrow, who are you then?
00:00:06.000And I had many times of being a rookie in the NBA, doing what I thought I needed to do and having fun, and then looking myself in the mirror and saying, you know, who are you?
00:00:17.000As the world figured out how to navigate COVID in 2020, the NBA invested $190 million into what was called the NBA bubble.
00:00:24.000After halting all games for months, the season resumed from July to November.
00:00:29.000The teams played their games behind closed doors in empty stadiums and lived on-site in the surrounding hotels.
00:00:34.000This NBA season from the bubble was built at the early stages of COVID and thus was met with mixed reactions.
00:00:40.000Then, following the death of George Floyd, the politics intensified.
00:00:44.000Players, coaches, and staff throughout the league donned shirts with the words Black Lives Matter and knelt during the game opening national anthem performances as a form of protest.
00:00:53.000Our guest today entered the national spotlight when he decided to not do any of that.
00:00:57.000On July 31st, 2020, a viral moment happened when Jonathan Isaac was the one and only player on his team not dressed in a BLM tee and standing up for the anthem.
00:01:06.000Following the game, Jonathan told the press, I feel like putting a shirt on and kneeling one hand in hand with supporting Black Lives Matter.
00:01:15.000This moment made Jonathan the first player who refused to kneel for the anthem during this period of time.
00:01:20.000As we'll discuss in our episode, all the while, his contract was in the works.
00:01:25.000A little over a year later, he would buck the league again for choosing not to take the COVID-19 vaccine.
00:01:31.000Jonathan's story is a turbulent but inspiring one.
00:01:33.000As the number one basketball player in the state of Florida in 2017, he was drafted by the Orlando Magic.
00:01:39.000He faced serious injury in his rookie year, but he came back the following year as a starter in 64 games and achieved several career highs.
00:01:46.000The next year, 2020, COVID redefined the NBA season.
00:01:49.000The BLM movement seeped into every area of life, including basketball.
00:01:53.000And the very next game, after Jonathan stood for the national anthem, he tore his ACL and was out for the rest of the season, and all of the last season as well.
00:02:01.000But throughout this mending process, Jonathan has told his story, navigating the vaccine, BLM, his injuries, and other challenges in his book, Why I Stand.
00:02:10.000In our episode, Jonathan and I get into the significant choices and risks that have made his journey encouraging for so many Americans.
00:02:45.000So why don't we start with this picture?
00:02:47.000Because this picture is really, I think, indicative of not just how amazing your story is, but who you are as a person.
00:02:54.000So what led up to this picture of you standing, all your teammates are kneeling, wearing Black Lives Matter t-shirts, and there you are, you know, standing with your head down during the national anthem.
00:03:08.000So, as you know, it starts with George Floyd and the whole Derek Chauvin altercation and ultimately George Floyd passing away, tragically.
00:03:18.000And during that time, there was the craziness of the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:03:23.000Everything became so polarizing, the left versus the right, white versus black, who's right, who's wrong.
00:03:30.000And it led to this moment of the NBA going into what was called the NBA bubble.
00:03:34.000And there being a lot of pressure on the NBA players to kneel for the national anthem and to wear a Black Lives Matter t-shirt.
00:03:40.000And during that time of kind of surveying everything and seeing how, just the emotions of everything that was going on and what everyone was saying, I thought to myself, what would be the best way for me to respond?
00:03:50.000Not just as Jonathan Isaac, but Jonathan Isaac the Christian.
00:03:54.000And so I looked out and I said, you know what?
00:03:57.000With my friends and my family and my pastor back home at Jump Ministries Global Church and decided that it was the right thing for me to do was to stand for the national anthem and declare that the love of Jesus Christ is ultimately the answer for all of the world's problems, not just racism, and that we all fall short of God's glory.
00:04:26.000I think social was the biggest one where it was just, especially as a black athlete, that there was the, you know, it's a part of standing for, you know, your people, the culture, and doing that as a collective.
00:04:40.000And so there was definitely the societal pressure.
00:04:41.000I would say the NBA was just open to, you know, the players doing what they felt they wanted to do.
00:04:47.000There was the, you know, the Black Lives Matter on the court and the different things.
00:04:50.000So there was a little bit from each and every direction, but the social was the biggest one, I believe.
00:04:55.000Now, you did this in the middle of a contract negotiation.
00:04:57.000I mean, this was not, you have a tenure contract with the team, your future in the NBA is secure.
00:05:09.000Yeah, I think courage was big in that moment.
00:05:12.000One of the things that I love to say in the book and just in general is that courage is not the absence of fear.
00:05:17.000And in today's day, there are so many things that you can be so afraid of standing for if you believe them because of what could come out of it.
00:05:24.000And so in the moment, there was a lot of fear about what's gonna happen with my contract, what are people gonna say about me, but I knew what I was standing for.
00:05:31.000And what the book details is me saying that Jesus, the love of Jesus Christ is the answer is because I've experienced it in my own life.
00:05:39.000Christ's love isn't like everybody else's love.
00:06:14.000So, I mean, it wasn't as though you had like a massive social life happening outside where you're going out with your family at night to a community of people at the church, and this was in the middle of COVID.
00:06:25.000You've got to understand that guys at this time, they were feeling the pressure themselves of what is the right thing to do, and the same societal pressure that I was feeling about the decision to make.
00:06:35.000Guys were emotional about what they saw with George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, as was I. But again, for me, it was about what was the right way to respond for there to be actual progress, and not just step into a moment and join into the perpetual fight that has been going on forever.
00:07:11.000Like, again, guys were emotional, guys were heated, and wanted to do this together and as a team and as a symbol.
00:07:17.000But at the same time, guys who knew me understood my position, that I wasn't protesting anyone's protest.
00:07:23.000I was simply standing for what I chose to believe in.
00:07:26.000So in one second, I want to talk about sort of what shaped your worldview on this sort of stuff, because obviously it wasn't widely shared at the time.
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00:08:46.000All right, so let's go back to the beginning because this really was the culmination of a sort of lifetime move by you in terms of your philosophy.
00:08:54.000You talk about your embrace of religion, but things start a lot earlier than that because that is really the story of the book.
00:09:01.000As we say, this was sort of the apex of the story, but that wasn't the beginning of the story.
00:09:05.000You've suffered personally from a lot of anxiety from trying to deal with that.
00:09:12.000How have you been able to deal with that and how did that affect you as you were becoming much more famous and all of this?
00:09:19.000Well, I don't want to give everything away because people got to go and get the book to get the 411 for real.
00:09:23.000But growing up in Bronx, New York, I was about 10 years old and my father and my mom split up.
00:09:29.000And then from there I went to Naples, Florida with my mom, with my four brothers and one sister.
00:09:33.000And during the time of trying to fit in, coming from Bronx, New York to Naples, Florida, the difference in the ethnicities of those two places, it was hard for me to fit in.
00:09:43.000Kids used to call me Ethiopia when I got there.
00:09:46.000And so I had a hard time of trying to work for love, trying to work for attention, trying to work for all these things to fit in, because that's what I really wanted.
00:09:54.000And I was really void of that unconditional love I grew to know in Jesus Christ.
00:09:59.000And so during the time I found basketball, and basketball became everything to me.
00:10:04.000It was the crux of how I found that attention and love, because once I grew to become the number one player in the state of Florida, everyone knew my name.
00:10:12.000Everyone wanted to know me everyone and wanted to be around me and so I kind of placed my identity in the game But still those underlying emotional issues of anxiety and fear weren't dealt with they were just mashed through the game And so as I got to Florida State and obviously to the league next I struggled behind the scenes to work on that love and the story again would you have to get the book to really get the 411 but I I came to understand that the love of Jesus Christ, like I said, loves first and it's unconditional.
00:10:41.000And through a crazy circumstances and a wild story of just divine connection and God just leading my steps and leading people to me, I met a man in the elevator.
00:10:53.000And that man went on to become my pastor at the time, but he stopped me in the elevator not knowing who I was, and he said, I know how you're going to be great.
00:11:08.000And so again, through just some crazy circumstances, I was able to walk through feeling like, God, you love me, and you're there for me, and God made his love tangible to me.
00:11:18.000I've been riding with that ever since, and that's the love that I'm trying my best to portray and to show the world.
00:11:23.000So, for those of us who haven't suffered from anxiety, I have family members who suffer from anxiety, but what is that experience like?
00:11:29.000I mean, when you're actually struggling with something like that?
00:11:33.000I think all of us have been anxious at some point, but having that as like an actual condition is a different thing.
00:11:36.000Yeah, I mean, it was just, it's tough.
00:11:39.000It's something that's underlying, and you can try your best to mask it on the outside, but it's something that eats at you on the inside.
00:11:45.000And when I got to Florida State, again, being the number one player in the state of Florida, I was ready to play basketball, but I was struggling with these things behind the scenes where, at one point in time when I was at Florida State, I passed out in class.
00:11:58.000I knew I had those internal fears of being big man on campus and everybody looking to me to kind of bring the championship home at the NCAA tournament, which we unfortunately weren't able to do.
00:12:08.000But those things are just underlying, and you really have to get to the crux of where your identity lies and who God says you are.
00:12:15.000And those are some of the things that I started to be able to put into practice and experience with the love of God to where today I'm able to come out of that.
00:12:22.000But it's still a work in progress, of course.
00:12:24.000So, as a black man in America, you've grown up in a couple of different, very different places.
00:12:29.000You grew up in Naples, but before that, you grew up in the Bronx, which must have been super different.
00:12:33.000So what were your experiences like growing up in the Bronx?
00:12:49.000And as I brought that to Naples, there was a huge culture shock of, you know, not being able to fight in school and not being able to horseplay and getting in a lot of trouble early on.
00:12:59.000And you said that your parents were divorced at about this time.
00:13:12.000And having those little seeds of faith planted in me at a young age, I'm so glad that they were because I was able to hold on to them into my adulthood.
00:13:20.000But after, with the story being a bit rocky and me going off and doing everything that I thought I needed to do or wanted to do in life once I got to the NBA, but not having him anymore and kind of having to just dive into this culture shock that it was, I had to deal with a lot of it on my own.
00:13:36.000And you talked about, briefly, some of your experiences with racism in high school and while you were growing up.
00:13:43.000Maybe you can talk a little bit more about that.
00:13:47.000Again, really wanting to fit in, really wanting to be accepted by the people that were around me.
00:13:52.000I was shunned a lot, ostracized, until I began to dominate at basketball.
00:13:56.000And so once basketball became that piece, I started to get the love from the people that, you know, would originally call me Ethiopian.
00:14:02.000I was really skinny, and I tried really hard to put on weight and entered one story of Having a father in the home and then not having a father in the home, how did that sort of shift your view of manhood?
00:14:14.000And one time a coach asked me, do you know what those things do?
00:14:18.000And I said, no, I just didn't want to be called Ethiopia anymore.
00:14:21.000So I was just trying to put on weight.
00:14:23.000Having a father in the home and then not having a father in the home, how did that sort of shift your view of manhood?
00:14:29.000Because that ties into, I think, your religious journey as well.
00:14:32.000Yeah, I said, views of manhood is just, you have to learn from people that were around you.
00:14:37.000But what was so awesome for me is that God had put in the story as well, so many different people in my life that could lead me to each journey and to where I am now.
00:14:47.000And so I had representatives of manhood that weren't my dad at the time, but were put in my life for that reason.
00:14:56.000So you end up going to college, you're a big man on campus, and what is life like, and what is the lack that sort of leads you to start looking a different way?
00:15:04.000Well, it's just basketball isn't everything, and the fame and the money and the things that we chase after really don't satisfy you.
00:15:12.000They're not something that's transcendent to who you are, and they're fleeting.
00:15:17.000If the money was to go tomorrow, if the fame was to go tomorrow, who are you then?
00:15:22.000And I had many times of being a rookie in the NBA, doing what I thought I needed to do and having fun, and then looking at myself in the mirror and saying, you know, who are you?
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00:17:24.000So I think that, you know, for most men particularly, we look at the lifestyle of an NBA athlete and you think, okay, that's everything I want, right?
00:17:32.000That's money, that's women, that's travel, that's being able to do all the things that all men dream of in sort of the id part of your brain, the most animalistic part of your brain that seeks glory and seeks sex and seeks money and all those things.
00:17:46.000And yet you were able to see beyond that.
00:17:56.000And so being able to experience those things and being able to look myself in the mirror and, you know, you can attribute it to the early things that I learned growing up and it really came to fruition or reality in my mind once I got to experience these things.
00:18:11.000But again, I was saying God came after me.
00:18:13.000It wasn't that I was so tired of living this life that I just wanted to go in a different direction.
00:18:18.000God sent a man into my life, the man that stopped me at the elevator and said, I can tell you how to be great, along with some crazy circumstances that it opened my eyes to say, you know what?
00:18:34.000And being able to experience that love in so many different ways, I had to say yes.
00:18:39.000So what causes you to actually, you know, take that business card that you're handed on the elevator and then actually call the number on it?
00:18:44.000Because, I mean, there are a lot of people out there who are, you know, reached out to by religious figures, by people who want to give them a path, and most people just take the card and throw it away.
00:18:53.000Most people are just like, yeah, you know what, my life is pretty good.
00:19:32.000I said, look, if I see you again, I will go to lunch with you.
00:19:35.000So long story short, a couple of days later, I see him again.
00:19:38.000I'm like, okay, we're going to lunch right now.
00:19:40.000And a lot of this was motivated by the things that were happening behind the scenes that he didn't know about that only God can know about the things that I was struggling with.
00:19:50.000Having my eyes be opened a little bit to, okay, who is this guy?
00:19:54.000Okay, if I see you again, I'll go to lunch with you.
00:19:56.000So I go to lunch with him, and it's just a normal conversation.
00:19:59.000You know, we get on the topic of God a little bit, but not very much.
00:20:03.000I leave the lunch, and I delete his number.
00:20:40.000Our relationship with him wasn't real.
00:20:42.000It was just tradition or something that I referenced in some type of way.
00:20:45.000And so, but now all I could think about was that verse, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?
00:20:51.000And I said to myself, I'm going to find out if this thing is real or not.
00:20:54.000And so I'm going to either drop the whole Christian label altogether, or I'm going to go into this thing with open arms and see what it is.
00:21:01.000Again, this is all working in the background of meeting this guy.
00:21:04.000So then, me and a friend of mine, okay, this is in the story as well, me and a friend of mine come up with the idea that we are going to buy a bunch of burgers.
00:21:13.000We were reading in, you know, the Bible where Jesus says, whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me.
00:21:18.000And it was around November time, Thanksgiving.
00:21:20.000And we said, we're going to buy a bunch of burgers and we're going to pass it out to the homeless.
00:21:25.000And now, this is another thing that's happening.
00:21:26.000So again, you got to put that in your back pocket.
00:21:29.000I go to the movies with another old friend of mine.
00:21:33.000He was my trainer when I was in high school.
00:21:35.000And he always would drop little God comments and, you know, you want to do a Bible study with me?
00:21:39.000And I'd be like, no, dude, I just want you to be my trainer.
00:21:43.000And so we go to the movies, and we go to watch a Christian movie, and it's horrible.
00:22:24.000It's all the things that are happening in the background.
00:22:26.000I go to leave, and as I'm pulling out onto this street, there's a car that's pulling onto the street.
00:22:31.000And our car stopped, like, as he can see the front side of my car, I can see the front of his, and I look, and it's the guy from the elevator.
00:22:39.000And I roll down my window, and he rolls down his, and I say, you, me, breakfast tomorrow.
00:22:45.000And I'm driving home saying, God, I don't know if this is real, but you must want this guy in my life.
00:22:53.000I go to breakfast with him the next day, and I'm telling him about my plan to feed all these people with hamburgers and stuff, and he tells me, you can't do that.
00:23:56.000And he's praying over my ankle so just earnestly, and I can feel like what's happening is right.
00:24:04.000And I go home that night, and again, with all of the things that I was struggling with behind the scenes, I'm saying to myself, God, you've orchestrated this.
00:24:17.000And so, I kneel on the side of my bed for the first time that I've done since I've been in Orlando as a rookie, and I remember the Christian sinner's prayer from a young kid, Jesus, come into my heart, be Lord of my life.
00:24:30.000And I pray that prayer, and next thing you know, me and the man that I met in the elevator started to just develop a friendship, and he says to me, You should come to church with me." And I say, look, if you're cool, your pastor has to be cool.
00:24:44.000So I go to the church, I'm sitting down, and they introduce the pastor, and it's him.
00:24:49.000And so from then on, I've been a part of the church, Jump Ministries Global Church in Orlando.
00:24:53.000His name is Dr. Deron Hepburn, and he's just been mentoring me and pastoring me for four years now, and is a huge part of the reason I am the man that I am today.
00:25:02.000And who was the man that I was on the phone with the night before I stood, kind of telling him, like, this is gonna be huge.
00:25:08.000You know, people are gonna, there's gonna be backlash, there's gonna be articles, there's gonna be all these different things.
00:25:12.000I haven't signed my contract yet, but we decided that it was the right thing to do.
00:25:16.000So how did the team react to you not kneeling with the rest of the players?
00:25:21.000Yeah, again, it was an emotional reaction.
00:25:24.000A lot of guys disagreed with my decision or didn't understand why I felt the need to do it or why I had to, but I did.
00:25:32.000And so we were able to have a conversation after, and they were able to get out their feelings, and that's in the book as well, and what was said and everything like that.
00:25:41.000But we left it as, I respected your decision to kneel, and I asked for that same respect in return, but I'm going to stand for what I believe in.
00:25:49.000How did you personally react to the amount of media backlash?
00:25:51.000Because there was an enormous amount of media backlash.
00:25:53.000I remember there were columnists who were suggesting that you weren't properly black, that you really didn't know what you were talking about on any of these issues, that you were ignorant, and all the rest of this.
00:26:01.000I mean, as I've received my share of criticism, it's never easy.
00:26:05.000So what was that like, especially for somebody like you, where if you were going to receive criticism, it was probably going to be about your athletic performance, not anything to do with your ideas or your religious beliefs or anything.
00:26:39.000The letters that I got, the messages that I got of people who were encouraged and emboldened themselves to stand for Christ and stand for the love of Christ made it all worthwhile.
00:26:48.000But at the end of the day, I knew what I was standing for, and it was about really an audience of one and not what everybody else had to say.
00:26:55.000So in a second, I'm going to talk about what it's like to be a professional athlete and have to know that basically how your body is on any given day makes or breaks your career.
00:27:03.000That's got to be incredibly anxiety provoking just in and of itself.
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00:28:14.000I think that, you know, I'm not an athlete, but that would be the equivalent for me of I get a really, really bad bout of laryngitis that takes me out of commission for like a year.
00:29:40.000I think that's just for, you know, me right now trying to balance the book stuff and the rehab.
00:29:44.000My rehab comes first in the morning and I'm at the gym for about five hours and then try to muscle in these interviews and other things around there.
00:29:52.000I mean, ACL is a serious injury, so what's the rehab process on that like?
00:29:58.000Every day is kind of the same things and you just have those building blocks that kind of grow on top of each other until you're back where you used to be.
00:30:06.000I'm not the biggest, like, I'm going to nitpick everything that I eat, but I just try to stay away from fried foods and sodas and sugars and stuff.
00:30:13.000But other than that, I eat pretty normally.
00:30:16.000Simultaneously, you weren't just making a stand with regard to not kneeling in the bubble.
00:30:20.000I want to get back to some of the race questions in a second, but you also took a stand with regard to the COVID vaccine.
00:30:26.000So there's a lot of pressure, obviously, on everyone in the United States to take the COVID vaccine.
00:30:32.000I'm vaccinated, double vaccinated and got Omicron.
00:31:05.000And then the pressure with regard to the vaccine.
00:31:07.000Yes, the vaccine pressure didn't come until after the bubble.
00:31:10.000So after we got out, it was the turn of the next year and around, I want to say March of that next year, there was the, you know, the NBA players are in line to get their vaccination shots.
00:31:20.000And there I would say there was definitely more pressure from the league and all of the societal pressure to get vaccinated in the first place.
00:31:29.000Wanting to just look out and see how everything was going and the tone of what everybody was talking about.
00:31:35.000There was a hint in me that felt like it wasn't all genuine in the way that it was pushed, in the way that the people were marked and tried to make this a moral issue about if you were a good person or not.
00:31:47.000But I looked at myself and said, look, I'm an NBA player.
00:32:24.000But then again, being able to look out and see how people's religious exemptions and medical exemptions were being denied, the questions about what the virus or the vaccine could do were being squashed down and no conversation.
00:32:36.000It's just you're an evil person if you don't take this and you don't care about anybody.
00:33:19.000So I get on the phone with him and he's cordial.
00:33:22.000He's, I understand your position and that makes a lot of sense.
00:33:26.000And then the article comes out and it says that I came to my vaccine decision by studying black history and watching Donald Trump press conferences.
00:33:35.000And that I waited and watched for people to die and put my faith in God.
00:33:40.000And that's when I was just like, this is insane.
00:33:57.000And the video went to like eight million views in a week.
00:34:00.000And, you know, people were able to understand my position.
00:34:03.000So you weren't the only NBA player, obviously, who was vax hesitant or decided not to take it.
00:34:07.000Kyrie Irving, obviously, took an enormous amount of flack for not taking the vaccine.
00:34:11.000And then, of course, New York had bizarre rules where he couldn't play at home, but he could play on the road for a while, which makes perfect scientific sense because you can only get COVID, apparently, if you're unvaccinated in New York.
00:34:20.000But if you're unvaccinated elsewhere, then you're totally immune.
00:34:22.000And so all of that is that is totally fine.
00:34:24.000You know, among the other NBA players, I have to imagine that there are a lot of NBA players who are pretty hesitant to take the vaccine.
00:34:32.000If I were a professional athlete and I didn't want to take it, I wouldn't be surprised if some people got some documentation that was not totally on the up and up.
00:34:38.000But what was the feeling around the NBA about taking it?
00:34:40.000I don't know about that, about the fake vax cards, but there was definitely feelings of guys that they didn't want to take it either.
00:34:48.000But because of that pressure from one society and the NBA and kind of the regulations that they said would come out if you didn't take the vaccine, like you wouldn't be able to eat with your teammates and you'd have to test every day all of these different things, that, you know, why not just take it?
00:35:06.000But for me, it was more about the principle of what was going on, how people were being treated, people were losing their jobs.
00:35:12.000That's not something that I wanted to stand with.
00:35:14.000And yeah, I could have just acquiesced and said, you know, let me take it just to take it, but I didn't feel comfortable doing so.
00:35:19.000But that tide has definitely turned more as more things have come out about the vaccine and its origin and all of these different things, the virus and its origin and all these different things that I think if it was to come out again, that a lot more guys would be hesitant.
00:35:33.000So what was the actual COVID protocol while you were doing this?
00:35:35.000I mean, you took a, you were telling me before the show that basically you had to get tested every single day when you were in the bubble, for example.
00:35:42.000Yeah, well, in the bubble and throughout the entirety of last season.
00:35:46.000So, you know, you had to test every day if you were unvaccinated.
00:35:50.000You had, you know, you had to wait, you know, until you got your test results back before you get into the building, different things like that.
00:35:56.000It just made it harder, obviously, to do the job.
00:35:59.000But at the same time, I wasn't playing.
00:36:01.000And so I was okay with, you know, Abiding by those, you know, regulations.
00:36:07.000So I want to go back for a second to the decision to stand in the bubble as opposed to kneeling.
00:36:12.000So obviously, you have a religious perspective that I want to get into a little bit with regard to what you think are the cures for America's problems.
00:36:20.000What do you think the status is of race in America right now?
00:36:23.000Because there are a lot of folks who suggest that racism is still widely endemic in the United States.
00:36:26.000There are a lot of people who say that really it isn't.
00:36:29.000Where do you think everything sort of lies in America racially?
00:36:32.000Yeah, I feel like we've definitely come a long way from where things used to be.
00:36:37.000I think that there are, of course, still racist people and racist things that, you know, African Americans have to battle through.
00:36:46.000But, you know, we have come a long way from where we used to be.
00:36:49.000And so you take the position that basically, you know, the way to solve problems is to do it on the individualistic level, and you take that via religious lessons.
00:36:58.000Well, I take the position that America hasn't done everything right.
00:37:04.000In its history and even today, but it also hasn't done everything wrong.
00:37:08.000And so when you do look at an individual level and where you put your hope for the future and deciding to get out and fight and overcome some of these hurdles, I think it is something that you can do.
00:37:22.000There are several other people who have been able to do that.
00:37:25.000But again, I really do feel like on both sides, being able to get past just Regulation and legislation, it is about truly loving people of a different ethnicity, color, background than you.
00:37:39.000And so, in terms of the buck stopping with there's no more institutional racism or things of that sort, and so we're good, I think that's not enough.
00:37:48.000I think from an individual perspective of, you know, black people needing to overcome and fight and be these individuals, there is a responsibility on everyone's right to love and see their brother and want to help.
00:38:00.000So, in a second, I want to ask about, you mentioned earlier, meeting your wife while serving food to the homeless, which is a pretty amazing way to meet your wife.
00:38:07.000I want to get into that in just one second.
00:38:08.000First, let's talk about your employees at your company.
00:38:12.000There are a lot of people who just make my life easier.
00:38:13.000I don't know what I would do without them.
00:38:16.000Like, my assistant Kelly, she basically ensures that my life runs.
00:38:19.000Like, if Kelly were not texting me every 10 minutes telling me what is on my schedule, I would never be where I need to be.
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00:39:17.000So, part of your story here and part of your spiritual transformation, it sounds like, is your relationship with your wife too.
00:39:22.000So, you guys met actually serving food to the homeless, which is Pretty much just straight out of the Bible, like just meeting your spouse.
00:39:31.000So, can you talk a little bit about how your relationship has shaped your life?
00:39:36.000Yeah, so we met that day, and I started to grow.
00:39:41.000She was already in the church for years, so she's just doing her thing, what was normal to her, but it wasn't normal to me.
00:39:47.000And so as I begin to grow in faith and understanding of who God is, and again, experience that love, I want to start doing better, and I want to start living my life according to what God says, to the best of my ability.
00:39:58.000And so I begin to grow and come to the church full-time and become a member and all these things, and I get to see her in action, doing her thing, loving God.
00:40:07.000I get to see the type of woman that she is.
00:40:09.000She's also a Christian rapper, so the way that she ministers, she had the opportunity to preach a couple times.
00:40:16.000When I saw her preach I was like, this woman is bad.
00:40:21.000So yeah, that's where it started and I was able to develop that friendship with her and then it turned into us dating for a year, being engaged for a year.
00:40:31.000And then married, but she's definitely been such a rock for me and another person that when I'm talking about experiencing that love of God, because God uses people.
00:40:40.000And so being able to experience her love, her encouragement for me as a basketball player and seeing me as more than just a basketball player, but a man who wants to do right and do better, I'm encouraging that Jonathan.
00:40:51.000Unconditionally has been something that has helped me tremendously.
00:40:54.000And again, one of the people that was on the phone with me when we were engaged at the time that said, you may be standing alone, but I'm standing right there with you.
00:41:02.000Can you talk a little bit about what you think the role of a man and a husband is?
00:41:06.000Because obviously in our society, a lot of this stuff has been pretty undermined.
00:41:11.000And it sounds like your value system really leads you to a certain set of rules that you try to live by with regard to being a husband.
00:41:19.000I feel like God calls us to lead, for sure.
00:41:22.000I feel like God calls us to be a rock for our families and relationships.
00:41:26.000And I think the biggest thing is to uptake the responsibility of it and to see the responsibility of it as noble in leading and loving and going the extra mile to help the influence that you have be better.
00:41:41.000And I think at the end of the day, for a man, it's to honor God first.
00:41:45.000And when you do that, everything else falls into place.
00:41:47.000So, you and your wife, how long have you guys been married?
00:41:58.000I want to get back on the court in a little bit, but for sure.
00:42:02.000Yeah, and thank God the rehab is going well.
00:42:05.000And so, what have you guys talked about in terms of the principles that you want to raise your kids by?
00:42:10.000Oh, well, the principles that we live by, for sure.
00:42:12.000And so we want our kids to be God-fearing, of course, and we honestly haven't even had as many of those conversations, but it is just natural that, you know, whatever we believe, we would want our kids to be instilled in and grow up in, and we believe that it's the best agent for their future.
00:42:26.000And ultimately, we want to see them become who God has created them to be as well, and, you know, give them the freedom to do that.
00:42:55.000I actually was just back in New York shooting some stuff for my brand that's going to be coming out soon, Judah Collection.
00:43:01.000I was able to go to the house that I grew up in and see my dad, and me coming to faith was a huge part of me, you know, kind of mending my relationship with him, and that's in the book as well.
00:43:11.000So you're launching brands and you're launching books.
00:43:14.000What is sort of your long-term vision for your career?
00:43:17.000Because obviously you want to get back to playing.
00:43:23.000This whole journey has happened before you've really had a chance to play significant minutes in the NBA.
00:43:27.000You played some your rookie year and then you got injured and now you're going to come back next year.
00:43:31.000What's your kind of long-term vision here?
00:43:33.000You know, I actually have no idea, and I think that that's a good thing.
00:43:37.000What I've tried my best to do is just be obedient to where God is taking me and asking of me to do, but I have no clue.
00:43:46.000Before I came to faith, and this is something that I always tell young people or just people that I'm talking to, that God wasn't trying to take anything away from me.
00:43:54.000Like, the fun that I was having, or that I thought I was having, He wasn't trying to take that away.
00:44:00.000And now the fact that I'm writing a book, and the book is going to become a movie, and I'm working on the second book, and a brand, and all these different things, I'm like, all of that God had for me, but it was a part of me accepting Him as Lord and Savior, and walking down the road to becoming what He created me to be.
00:44:17.000I don't know what's next, but I'm hopeful that, you know, it's more of what I've been able to do.
00:44:24.000So in my own life, my family became Orthodox in the Jewish community when I was maybe 11.
00:44:29.000So I didn't have any sort of sowing my wild oats period.
00:44:33.000I went directly from being an Orthodox kid to being an Orthodox adult.
00:44:36.000I do remember eating a Kentucky fried chicken that's about the extent of you know, the rebelliousness of my family because not eating kosher, then shifting over to eating kosher.
00:44:46.000But you obviously have sort of experienced the highs that secular society says are the things that you should value.
00:46:13.000I think, you know, the vision that they had in the beginning could have worked, but it just didn't.
00:46:19.000And so, I'm not sure what direction they go from now in terms of Westbrook and other guys of how they kind of pull the thing back together, but they got some work to do.
00:46:28.000Generally speaking, with the NBA, how do you think the NBA can do a better job of reaching out to the casual fan or the people like me?
00:46:34.000I mean, frankly, I was alienated by a lot of the NBA's marketing over the course of the bubble period, where it seemed like if you did not share a particular political viewpoint, then you just weren't welcome.
00:46:44.000And every broadcast seemed to become a political disquisition.
00:46:46.000And believe me, I do politics all day long.
00:46:48.000I'm perfectly happy to watch MSNBC on occasion.
00:46:51.000But when sports sort of turned into a very polarized political topic, It was very alienating.
00:46:57.000I remember, you know, canceling subscription to Sports Illustrated years and years ago when I felt like sports was getting too political.
00:47:03.000What do you think the NBA should do about politics?
00:47:05.000Do you think it should become more apolitical or should be let a thousand flowers bloom?
00:47:11.000I think entities like sports, like social media, other things like that should take a more apolitical stance and just allow inclusivity and people to share their ideas and thoughts as they see fit.
00:47:26.000But at the same time, it's their organization, and so they get to do kind of what they want to do with it and kind of let the consequences be what they are.
00:47:34.000If I was running it, I would try my best to be as in the middle as possible and allow people to share how they feel and hire that way or anything like that, but it's ultimately theirs.
00:47:46.000So you recently signed a new contract with the Magic.
00:47:50.000What's the relationship with the team like?
00:48:26.000I think maybe a little bit, I don't know, moving forward with some of the things that are happening in the world, but we'll just have to wait and see.
00:48:35.000Well, Jonathan, I'm really inspired by your story.
00:48:37.000I think a lot of our listeners and readers are going to be inspired by your story as well.
00:48:40.000The book, Why I Stand, is now widely available via DW Books.
00:48:43.000We're really proud to bring that to audiences everywhere.
00:48:47.000Honestly, it's a tough thing to stand up in front of a giant crowd of people, somebody with anxiety even more so, and really take a stand on a really crucial issue and make the country better in ways that I think very few people are able to do in an arena where pretty much nobody is willing to stand up.
00:49:02.000Jonathan, thanks so much for joining the show.