The Ben Shapiro Show - Kirk Cameron | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 82

00:00:00.000 By the time I graduated high school, doors were opening for an acting career, and I thought I might as well keep this career going.

00:00:07.000 And the doors that were opening were lining up with what was happening to me on the inside.

00:00:11.000 I want to be about things that promote faith.

00:00:13.000 I want to be about things that promote family and marriage.

00:00:16.000 And here I am looking in the rear view mirror saying, "This has been awesome." Hey, hey, and welcome.

00:00:30.000 This is the Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special.

00:00:32.000 I'm really excited to welcome to the show Kirk Cameron.

00:00:34.000 Kirk is an actor and producer.

00:00:35.000 You remember him as Mike Seaver on Growing Pains, but he's also starred in Fireproof and Way of the Master.

00:00:39.000 He's currently on a 30-city tour for his marriage and parenting conference, Living Room Reset.

00:00:43.000 Now, quick reminder, we'll be doing some bonus questions with our guests.

00:00:46.000 The only way to get access to that part of the conversation is to spend money on us by becoming a subscriber.

00:00:50.000 That's how we hold you up for the cash. 0.50

00:00:52.000 Go on over to dailywire.com, become a subscriber.

00:00:54.000 You'll have access to all of the full conversations with every one of our awesome guests.

00:00:58.000 Kirk, thanks so much for joining the show, dude.

00:01:00.000 Oh, man, it's my honor.

00:01:01.000 Great to meet you.

00:01:02.000 Great to be here with you.

00:01:03.000 I gotta say, my entire family grew up on, of course, you as Mike Seaver in Growing Pants.

00:01:08.000 Really?

00:01:08.000 Oh, yeah.

00:01:09.000 Well, and this is kind of crazy because my family kind of grew up with you on YouTube.

00:01:14.000 I mean, you're quite the hit and legend and subject of debate and passion conversations in our house.

00:01:22.000 I really appreciate it.

00:01:23.000 I have to say, I was kind of insulted that, you know, I have a name profile and yet my wife was far more excited that you were coming on the Sunday Special than that I actually host the Sunday Special.

00:01:33.000 Well, you know, it is fun and it's funny.

00:01:36.000 So many people grew up in the 1980s with Growing Pains and shows like that and Who's the Boss and other kinds of shows, and you just feel like these people grew up with you in your living room, so it's like they're family.

00:01:46.000 You feel like you know them.

00:01:47.000 Exactly.

00:01:48.000 For me, it was the Fonz.

00:01:49.000 It was Henry Winkler, and I was pretty excited when I met him. - So in a second, I wanna ask you about what happened while you were on Growing Pains and your shift to Christianity, 'cause that was obviously the defining feature of not only your life, but also of your move and your career.

00:02:03.000 I'm gonna ask you about that in just a second.

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00:03:19.000 So let's talk a little bit about what has become sort of the defining feature.

00:03:22.000 Whenever there's an article about you in the press, it's always about your shift to Christianity while you were playing Mike Seaver on Growing Pains, which is a radical shift, at least from the outside, just because the character of Mike Seaver is so different from somebody who would become an evangelical Christian.

00:03:35.000 So what exactly happened to you and what was that experience like?

00:03:38.000 Well, I didn't grow up in a religious home, so I never went to church.

00:03:42.000 In fact, I thought that Jesus was part of a different trinity, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and God.

00:03:50.000 So, that was never on the radar, but I actually met a girl on the set who was really cute, and she invited me to go meet her family, and it was a Sunday morning at church.

00:04:02.000 And I heard a message from the minister that just I was answering questions that I was asking, existential questions, philosophical questions, and I got thinking about the fact that one day I would die, and if really intelligent people believe in the existence of God, maybe I'm wrong as an atheist, and at least I ought to reach out.

00:04:23.000 And I heard this message of God's grace and His love and His forgiveness, and I remember sitting in my sports car on the side of the road at 17 years old, and I thought about, I could get hit by a drunk driver, I could die today, And if what that man said is true, I'm not going to heaven because of my attitude.

00:04:41.000 You know, I was the big man on campus.

00:04:43.000 I was Mike Seaver on Growing Pains, and everything was on my terms.

00:04:46.000 But I understood that a relationship with God would have to be on His terms.

00:04:50.000 He's the creator.

00:04:52.000 And so I remember praying.

00:04:54.000 And asking God to show me the way.

00:04:56.000 And somebody gave me a Bible, I started to read it, I started to go to church, and asked a million questions.

00:05:02.000 Listening to guys like Ravi Zacharias, who I loved the interview that you had with him.

00:05:07.000 Listening to guys like John MacArthur and others who really got me I was captivated by the message of the gospel, and I wanted to live my life in a way that was different, saying thank you to the one that gave me air to breathe, water to drink, and I was 17.

00:05:25.000 So, as a 17-year-old kid trying to figure out your own identity, I know I...

00:05:31.000 I ruffled some feathers.

00:05:32.000 I know that I may have been like a bull in a china shop. 0.87

00:05:35.000 My words may not have been seasoned with all the grace that they should have at 17.

00:05:39.000 But I was trying to figure out, how do I do this?

00:05:42.000 I didn't grow up like this.

00:05:43.000 How do I honor God in an industry that doesn't always look to accomplish the same goal?

00:05:49.000 How did your parents react to you moving in this direction?

00:05:52.000 Well, it was interesting because my mom had gone to church as a little girl, but my dad didn't want us to go to church.

00:05:58.000 He wanted us to sort of, you know, figure it out ourselves.

00:06:02.000 And so she was thrilled.

00:06:03.000 She was like, great, I would love to go to church.

00:06:05.000 But the problem was my mom and dad were separated at the time.

00:06:09.000 Providentially, this news of me going to church actually brought my dad to church, and my mom was like, you're not going to church with the kids without me!

00:06:18.000 I'm coming back!

00:06:19.000 And so, that actually was one of the things that I think added to them reconciling their relationship, and then we were all coming together, and we were praying together, and going to church together, and it was a really beautiful, positive thing in our family.

00:06:33.000 That's an amazing thing.

00:06:34.000 So how were you received in the industry when you decided to make this move?

00:06:37.000 I mean, both my parents work in the industry.

00:06:38.000 I spend a lot of time around people in the industry.

00:06:40.000 I know that when my mom, she has four, there are four kids in our family, and she works at a very high level in terms of business production. 0.99

00:06:48.000 I remember when she would go to events and people would ask how many kids she had and she'd say four.

00:06:51.000 People would lose their minds.

00:06:52.000 They would freak out.

00:06:53.000 That's how many kids?

00:06:54.000 So many kids.

00:06:55.000 Then we'd be in the Orthodox Jewish community where I spend my life.

00:06:58.000 Like, what happened?

00:06:58.000 Where are the other seven?

00:06:59.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:07:00.000 Come on, you guys.

00:07:01.000 Get with it.

00:07:02.000 So what was the reception like to your move?

00:07:04.000 Well, I would say that there were some people who had a healthy concern, a natural healthy concern.

00:07:12.000 You know, when you hear of teen celebrities, child actors, often things enter into their life that make them go wrong.

00:07:20.000 And, you know, that can be very concerning.

00:07:23.000 So it was like, what is he into?

00:07:24.000 What's going on?

00:07:25.000 But it was kind of funny because really I think the changes were I just wasn't dropping as many F-bombs.

00:07:30.000 You know, I wasn't going to the same parties and I wasn't interested in some of the stuff that my friends were interested in.

00:07:36.000 And I think over time it's really served me well.

00:07:41.000 So there may be some parts that I had to pass on because of content or conscience issues, but at the end of the day

00:07:52.000 Look at me, I'm sitting here with Ben Shapiro on your show, married for 29 years, I have six kids, I'm working on projects that I'm passionate about, and I'm trying to spread a message of life and light, and I think all that is because God has pointed me in a direction that I think works.

00:08:13.000 Did the offers start to change?

00:08:14.000 And I've talked to a lot of conservatives in the industry, and you can see for some of them, they'll say, no, it didn't really change.

00:08:18.000 I'm still getting the same offers.

00:08:20.000 I remember talking to Patty Heaton about this, one of my friends.

00:08:22.000 And Patty, I said to her, you know, have you lost parts because of this, because she's so pro-life, and outspokenly so.

00:08:29.000 And she said, I don't think so, but let me call you back.

00:08:30.000 She called me back 48 hours later, said, yeah, I just found out I lost seven specific parts because of this.

00:08:35.000 So did you feel any blowback from folks in the industry, or was it something where it was sort of a natural progression toward more parts you wanted to do?

00:08:41.000 I think it's the latter.

00:08:43.000 I think that there were doors that were opening up that were just fantastic.

00:08:47.000 So I wanted to do...

00:08:51.000 I guess I began to see… I always wanted to be a doctor.

00:08:54.000 I could say it this way.

00:08:55.000 I wanted to be a doctor.

00:08:55.000 I wanted to be a surgeon.

00:08:56.000 My plan was to go to college, go to medical school, and this acting thing took off when I was 9 years old.

00:09:01.000 By 14, I was on growing pains.

00:09:03.000 By the time I graduated high school, doors were opening for an acting career, and I thought I might as well keep this career going, and the doors that were opening were lining up with what was happening to me on the inside.

00:09:14.000 I want to be about things that promote faith.

00:09:16.000 I want to be about things that promote family and marriage.

00:09:20.000 And the movie Fireproof came up.

00:09:22.000 And that was a chance to be a part of a really cool, inspiring movie.

00:09:26.000 I was part of a documentary called Monumental, which explored the founding principles of our forefathers, the pilgrims.

00:09:34.000 And I retraced their escape route out of England to Holland, where they spent all those years with their pastor before coming over on the Mayflower.

00:09:43.000 And so it wasn't ever like I felt that people's disagreements with my faith or my values was inhibiting my career.

00:09:54.000 I I felt like my clearer direction of where I wanted to go was lining up with the doors that were opening.

00:10:00.000 And here I am looking in the rearview mirror saying, this has been awesome.

00:10:07.000 So how did you not get screwed up? 0.59

00:10:08.000 I mean, I know a lot of kids who are child actors. 0.93

00:10:10.000 My cousin, actually, was a child star, Mara Wilson.

00:10:12.000 She was in Matilda and Miracle on 34th Street and all that.

00:10:17.000 Very sweet person.

00:10:18.000 Haven't talked to her in a while, though.

00:10:19.000 But a lot of other people who start off as child actors have serious problems in their lives.

00:10:24.000 And you see these horror stories all over the media all the time.

00:10:27.000 So why didn't that happen to you?

00:10:29.000 Well, Ben, you've got to remember, as far as me not being all screwed up, I'm an actor.

00:10:33.000 I could be faking this whole thing.

00:10:35.000 And so I could really be a mess on the inside and break down after we turn off the cameras.

00:10:44.000 I have friends, contemporaries, people that I worked with growing up that have had things happen to them that didn't happen to me.

00:10:51.000 I'm fortunate in some ways.

00:10:53.000 They've made choices that are different than the choices that I've made.

00:10:57.000 But in the end, I think I was surrounded by some good people.

00:11:00.000 The cast of Growing Pains was great.

00:11:01.000 Alan and Joanna and Tracy and Jeremy and Leonardo DiCaprio.

00:11:07.000 It was like we were really like a family, even to the point where, you know, People didn't want to smoke on the set.

00:11:14.000 People didn't want to be cussing on the set because there was kids there.

00:11:17.000 And that combined, I think, with my mom and dad just really just being there.

00:11:22.000 My dad's a schoolteacher.

00:11:23.000 He taught physical education and mathematics for 30, 35 years.

00:11:27.000 And my mom was just always there with us.

00:11:30.000 And I think those things sort of laid a foundation.

00:11:34.000 But being a teenager in Hollywood is a pretty dicey road to take.

00:11:40.000 And I think that's where faith in God kicked in and pointed me in a different direction.

00:11:46.000 And I took the road less traveled, so to speak.

00:11:49.000 But, again, I think...

00:11:52.000 That sense of, wow, I'm really blessed to have this life and I want to live it in a way that honors the one who gave it to me.

00:11:59.000 And I think that kept me on track more than anything.

00:12:01.000 Do you still keep in touch with people who you're on the show with?

00:12:03.000 Oh yeah.

00:12:04.000 Yeah, Jeremy comes over and cooks every once in a while.

00:12:06.000 He's a chef.

00:12:06.000 He's awesome.

00:12:07.000 And I see Tracy and Jeremy probably the most of them.

00:12:11.000 As you know, Alan Thicke passed away.

00:12:13.000 Joanna's up in Santa Barbara.

00:12:15.000 But we're still friends.

00:12:18.000 We love seeing each other when we do have the chance.

00:12:20.000 So you've been making Christian content and conservative content or at least traditionally oriented family content for a while.

00:12:28.000 Why do you think it is that it's been left to sort of non-mainstream outlets in Hollywood to do all of that?

00:12:32.000 It's been a constant source of frustration for a lot of conservatives that I know that the studios will spend hundreds of millions of dollars on movies that have an incredibly select audience of apparently very Yeah.

00:12:44.000 blue people living in very blue areas, and they just ignore an entire swath of people who believe in religious faith, and that's left to sort of smaller studios to distribute.

00:12:53.000 Fireproof is, of course, the best example of this, a movie that was made on a shoestring budget and then goes on to do $30 million at the box office because Hollywood completely ignores this entire segment of the American population.

00:13:03.000 It's perplexing, isn't it?

00:13:05.000 I I travel all around the country teaching on the subject of marriage and parenting because I think family is so important.

00:13:12.000 I think when the family crumbles, the nation crumbles.

00:13:14.000 And what I find everywhere that I go is that there are people of faith, I call it the family of faith, everywhere who believe In the kinds of values and think that character and virtue is essentially important, more so than politics, more so than the economy, more so than these other things.

00:13:36.000 I don't know why there aren't more projects like this, but I think that there are becoming more and more of these things.

00:13:43.000 More with technology being the way that it is, you don't have to depend on a studio distribution system, you don't have to depend on studio funding, you can grab a camera and you can have a YouTube channel and you can start making stuff.

00:13:54.000 More independent movies are coming around this way.

00:13:57.000 I would think, actually I would love to ask you that, why you think, I wonder if there aren't political reasonings behind all of that.

00:14:03.000 I mean, I certainly think that I wrote a book in 2014 about the TV industry called Primetime Propaganda.

00:14:07.000 And I went and interviewed probably a hundred different executives and producers and creators on TV shows.

00:14:14.000 And many of them would say openly that they had legitimate scorn for people in the middle of the country with whom they disagreed on these sorts of areas.

00:14:21.000 They felt that the real issues that were perplexing people were not issues of faith.

00:14:25.000 Those weren't the people they were speaking to.

00:14:28.000 And a lot of that was because I think the artistic endeavor, from where I sit, very much seems to be, from people I was talking to, reflective of the people who surround you.

00:14:36.000 So when I talk to some of the creators of Friends, which is a lifestyle completely foreign to my own, and foreign to a lot of people in the middle of the country, people who are in their early 30s acting like they're 17 years old living in an apartment together, all single, they have a kid at one point out of wedlock.

00:14:48.000 The kid disappears for several years, the kid sort of shows up randomly several seasons later, and that's treated as perfectly normal.

00:14:55.000 They even make a joke of it in the show.

00:14:56.000 And I remember talking to Myra Kaufman, who is one of the creators of Friends, and she said, right, but those are the people who I'm surrounded by.

00:15:03.000 And so, in other words, the bubble that you live in really defines the people who you're speaking to.

00:15:07.000 And so because the creative industry is drawn so much from LA, New York, San Francisco, and so little from So what seems like there's such fertile ground for so many of these projects with this underserved market and that's what I'm trying to do.

00:15:19.000 there's this broad kind of gap in the market.

00:15:20.000 So what seems like there's such fertile ground for so many of these projects with this underserved market, and that's what I'm trying to do.

00:15:29.000 I would love to be a part of more movies, more television shows, documentaries, live events.

00:15:35.000 I love being in front of people.

00:15:37.000 So I love traveling.

00:15:38.000 I love getting on stage.

00:15:39.000 I love performing.

00:15:40.000 I think probably because I was on Growing Pains all those years.

00:15:43.000 But I find that people are looking for things to... Nobody wants to fail at family, right?

00:15:48.000 Nobody goes to the altar thinking, hey, if this whole thing blows up, I'm okay with it.

00:15:51.000 We want marriage to work.

00:15:52.000 We want parenting to work.

00:15:54.000 And parenting is hard.

00:15:56.000 My wife and I have six children.

00:15:58.000 Four of them are adopted.

00:15:59.000 And so we have a very diverse group of people in our home.

00:16:05.000 I think people want and appreciate things that help them live life in a way that just causes people to flourish, families to flourish, and the nation to flourish.

00:16:16.000 So I'm going to ask you about the family and parenting stuff, which is really where you're putting most of your time these days.

00:16:20.000 But first, you've heard about cryptocurrency and you thought, that sounds weird.

00:16:24.000 Crypto and currency, why are they in the same word?

00:16:26.000 Well, the reason they're in the same word is because, effectively speaking, what cryptocurrency is, it is a digital way for you to protect your assets.

00:16:33.000 What is it?

00:16:33.000 Why?

00:16:34.000 Well, they've created a thing called blockchain, and then they create a cryptocurrency, and then governments can't manipulate how much that currency is worth.

00:16:40.000 It is just up to the free markets.

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00:17:25.000 So, you've been married for, what, you said 29 years?

00:17:27.000 29 years.

00:17:28.000 Okay, and you met your wife on the set.

00:17:29.000 Yeah, I met my wife on the set.

00:17:31.000 She actually played Mike Seaver's girlfriend.

00:17:33.000 I like to say that I stole Mike Seaver's girlfriend away from him.

00:17:35.000 You know, he had excellent taste.

00:17:37.000 And we've been married for 29 years.

00:17:40.000 She's from New York, I'm from Los Angeles, East Coast, West Coast, so it's sort of like a meeting of two worlds.

00:17:45.000 But when I met her, I found that she was not only beautiful on the outside, she was just beautiful on the inside.

00:17:53.000 She loved God, she loved kids, she loved family, and we hit it off, and within a year, we were married.

00:18:01.000 So how old were you when you guys got married?

00:18:03.000 Well, I was 20 when I got married, so I engaged, proposed, I think it was 19.

00:18:07.000 Wow.

00:18:08.000 Yeah, so I was just like, if I don't ask this girl to marry me, somebody else will. 0.98

00:18:13.000 And So I cannot lose her.

00:18:15.000 Oh yeah, that by the way, folks, this is where we, I mean we agree on a lot of stuff, but this is one area where we totally agree.

00:18:20.000 If you ever find the girl who you think you're going to marry, just propose like right then. 0.81

00:18:24.000 How long did you guys date before you were proposing?

00:18:27.000 Well, I think it was probably maybe six to nine months.

00:18:33.000 It wasn't all that long, but I just knew that I'm not ever, ever going to do better than this.

00:18:39.000 Exactly.

00:18:40.000 You took your time.

00:18:41.000 I proposed to my wife three months in.

00:18:42.000 Three months in?

00:18:43.000 Way to go!

00:18:44.000 That's the way it's done.

00:18:45.000 Twelve years coming up in July.

00:18:46.000 Congratulations.

00:18:49.000 When we got engaged, I had told her I love you a month before she said I love you back to me.

00:18:49.000 It's so funny.

00:18:54.000 So it was a real awkward month, right?

00:18:56.000 I would finish every conversation, I'd say, I love you, and she'd say, OK, thank you.

00:19:01.000 And the reason was because as soon as she said I love you back, she knew that this was going to be a serious thing.

00:19:05.000 So she said I love you back.

00:19:05.000 Exactly.

00:19:06.000 And naturally, the first words out of my mouth were, so let's get married.

00:19:09.000 So let's get married.

00:19:09.000 And she said, no, let's take our time.

00:19:11.000 It'll be fun.

00:19:11.000 I said, you understand, this is not fun.

00:19:13.000 Okay, like the fun part is like when we get married.

00:19:15.000 That's the fun part because now we're committed.

00:19:17.000 Now I don't have to worry about everything falling apart.

00:19:19.000 Right now, this is extremely nerve-wracking.

00:19:21.000 So if we can just get this thing off the table, that would be great.

00:19:24.000 I mean, I've never understood the desire to sort of delay marriage once you've found the person who you think you want to be with.

00:19:29.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:19:32.000 This is a little random, but one of my son's friends came home from college, and his girlfriend had come home from college, and over Christmas I was saying to them, hey, how's things going?

00:19:42.000 They're great.

00:19:43.000 We want to get engaged, we want to get married next year, and we're both going to take our next semester of school in Europe.

00:19:49.000 And I was like, Wait a minute, you're gonna get married a year from now, but you're going to Europe, like, next semester?

00:19:53.000 I'm like, there's a way too romantic of a place to not go while you're married!

00:19:58.000 Like, come on!

00:19:59.000 And so, he actually made the plans, and I married them, like, a week later.

00:20:04.000 Wow.

00:20:04.000 Like, no joke.

00:20:05.000 Before Christmas vacation was over.

00:20:06.000 And I'm not even a minister!

00:20:08.000 When I got ordained, we went to the presidential library, and it was drizzling rain outside, but we just walked up with some flowers, and I pronounced you man and wife, and poof, off they went to Paris.

00:20:19.000 That is awesome.

00:20:19.000 So you've been married for almost three decades.

00:20:21.000 So what are your keys to marriage, to making a marriage last?

00:20:23.000 Because obviously you've operated in the Hollywood world, where marriages last, on average, about 13 weeks.

00:20:28.000 So what exactly are the keys here?

00:20:30.000 I know, I say it all the time.

00:20:31.000 I've been married 29 years, which is like 290 in Hollywood years.

00:20:35.000 Right.

00:20:36.000 And it's mostly because I have a very forgiving wife.

00:20:39.000 I have an angel wife.

00:20:41.000 Ask anybody who knows her.

00:20:41.000 She truly is amazing.

00:20:44.000 But, you know, I think it's the thing we all know.

00:20:48.000 At the end of the day, we can see selfishness in our spouse much easier than we can see it in ourself.

00:20:52.000 And when I'm focusing on me and my needs and my wants and all that stuff, that's the perfect conditions for a rebellion.

00:21:02.000 But I think when I say, you know what?

00:21:04.000 It's you before me.

00:21:06.000 How can I serve you?

00:21:08.000 If I can do that, and I need God's help to do that, because I'm selfish by nature, then I promote a revival in my marriage.

00:21:17.000 That's what I want.

00:21:18.000 And so, with this marriage and parenting conference that I'm hosting, those are the kinds of things we talk about.

00:21:25.000 Forgiveness, how do you cherish your spouse, you know, me, misery, others, joy.

00:21:32.000 Those are the kinds of things that are hard because it goes against the selfish nature within us.

00:21:37.000 I deserve this.

00:21:38.000 What have you done for me?

00:21:39.000 I deserve better than that.

00:21:41.000 But at the end of the day, I know that I'm still a work in progress.

00:21:47.000 Don't put the inspection sticker on me yet.

00:21:47.000 I'm not finished.

00:21:52.000 I don't want to do that to you either.

00:21:53.000 What's been the most common problem that you've encountered from people at your seminars talking to you about marriage?

00:21:58.000 Most common problem?

00:22:02.000 Infidelity.

00:22:02.000 Selfishness.

00:22:03.000 You know, I mean, that's just such a hard one, right?

00:22:05.000 You know, when something as sacred and intimate as a marriage relationship gets violated in that kind of a way, it's so hard to put the pieces back.

00:22:14.000 It's so hard to trust again.

00:22:16.000 You get wounded and injured.

00:22:17.000 The walls go up.

00:22:18.000 And those are often, I think, the most difficult things.

00:22:22.000 Obviously, communication and money issues are big ones.

00:22:26.000 But it's interesting.

00:22:29.000 Often when we're dating our spouse or our girlfriend or our boyfriend, if we don't have any money and we're just sitting on the floor of an empty apartment eating pizza out of a box with no money to buy anything better, we're good.

00:22:41.000 That's fine.

00:22:41.000 We don't have money problems.

00:22:43.000 We can look at each other and gaze into one another's eyes for hours without saying a word, and we got no communication problems.

00:22:49.000 But when selfishness creeps in, and it's like when you're spending the money that I made, All of a sudden, communication's a problem, intimacy's a problem, money's a problem, and so I think it's the selfishness thing, it's the me monster, always ends up being the culprit.

00:23:03.000 Yeah, not to give a Hebrew biblical scriptural analysis, but the word for love in Hebrew is ahava, and the root of that word is hav, which is the same as to give, so the root of love is to give.

00:23:15.000 I've always felt that when people call into my show and ask about this sort of thing, the first thing that I always say is, if you have all the expectations of yourself but none of your spouse, you'll have a good marriage.

00:23:26.000 And if you married the right person, then that won't ruin the marriage.

00:23:28.000 People seem to think that if you expect a lot of yourself and nothing from your spouse, your spouse is going to go like eat Cheetos in the corner and let everything go.

00:23:34.000 But if you married the right person, they're thinking the same thing, that the expectation is on them and they don't expect Yeah, that's such a good point.

00:23:40.000 And that's one of the messages that came out of that movie, Fireproof, was even if you haven't married the right person, if I can try to get my part right, maybe I will be used as sort of a vessel to bring about change in my spouse over time.

00:23:48.000 a good point.

00:23:48.000 And that's one of the messages that came out of that movie Fireproof was even if you haven't married the right person, if I can try to get my part right, maybe I will be used as sort of a vessel to bring about change in my spouse over time.

00:24:03.000 I can't force it, but maybe I can lead by example and that'll bring some sort of transformation to my relationship if I'm patient.

00:24:11.000 I mean, this is going to sound kind of sexist, but it's not meant to be.

00:24:14.000 I firmly believe, my wife believes this too, so it's not that sexist, that the strength of a good marriage really relies on the man, meaning that women tend to be more attuned to what it takes to make a good marriage.

00:24:27.000 Men tend to be less attuned to that, and so the marriage is only going to be as good as the man is toward the woman.

00:24:32.000 He's the weak link.

00:24:33.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:24:34.000 Yeah, and so if he's strong, then you can have a strong marriage.

00:24:36.000 Exactly.

00:24:37.000 So, you have six kids, which is unthinkable to me.

00:24:40.000 I have two right now.

00:24:40.000 I am full up, and we have a third coming in March, so we're not quite full up, but that's going to be interesting, and hopefully we'll have more after that.

00:24:47.000 But you have six, and they're all within, you said, a six-year span?

00:24:51.000 A seven-year span?

00:24:52.000 Yeah, they're all about one year apart.

00:24:53.000 So when they were little, just think of this.

00:24:55.000 So, you know, my wife's got the double stroller, the front pack, the backpack while I'm traveling at work. 0.80

00:25:00.000 So one's six, one's five, four, three, two, and a newborn.

00:25:08.000 This is the kind of amazing wife that I'm married to. 0.94

00:25:11.000 And now- Do you have any help?

00:25:12.000 I mean, I just have to ask.

00:25:14.000 You know, I mean, my mom would come over sometimes, but we never, actually, we never had a nanny, and really, we could've used some help, but I think Chelsea was just always so all in that it was like, that's what she wanted her hands full of all the time, and she still does.

00:25:28.000 She thinks that that's like the most beautiful, wonderful thing in the whole world.

00:25:32.000 How could I ask for anything more than being a mom?

00:25:34.000 And to be there for all those little moments is just something she treasured, which I'm thankful for.

00:25:40.000 And as they've gotten older, I'm just warning you, it doesn't really get easier.

00:25:44.000 It's different.

00:25:47.000 You're not up feeding them bottles.

00:25:49.000 You're up worrying that they're gonna get home alive at night.

00:25:52.000 So now our kids are 22, 21, 20, 19, 18, and 17.

00:25:56.000 So one's married, some have moved out, they're driving, you have boyfriends.

00:26:02.000 It's a whole new world.

00:26:04.000 You said four of those kids are adopted.

00:26:05.000 So how did you guys make the decision to adopt?

00:26:07.000 Well, my wife is actually an adopted child herself.

00:26:11.000 And so that was always a beautiful part of her story.

00:26:14.000 And when we had been married for about six years, we talked about having a family.

00:26:18.000 And we were working a lot when we first got married.

00:26:20.000 And then we said, well, what about adoption?

00:26:23.000 Why don't we look into adoption?

00:26:25.000 And I thought that was a great idea.

00:26:27.000 I thought, I don't need to be the DNA donor.

00:26:29.000 There's kids who need a dad and a mom.

00:26:31.000 So we got in touch with an agency, and we adopted our son Jack, and it was such a great experience for us and for them that they said there's another little girl that is needing a home.

00:26:43.000 And so Bella was adopted, and then a year later it was Anna, and then it was Luke.

00:26:47.000 And so we had four, and then all of a sudden, Chelsea says to me, hey, I think the kitchen, the bathroom sink is broken.

00:26:52.000 Would you go look at it?

00:26:54.000 And so that was my chance to strap on my tool belt and score some husband points.

00:26:57.000 Walk in there and I looked at the sink.

00:27:00.000 I couldn't tell what was wrong.

00:27:01.000 I look underneath the sink.

00:27:02.000 I couldn't see what's wrong.

00:27:03.000 I go up to the faucets and I see this little like popsicle stick shaped test and it says positive.

00:27:10.000 And I'm like, What are you trying to say?

00:27:14.000 She's like, I'm pregnant!

00:27:16.000 And so then Olivia was born, and then a year later, the sink broke again, and James was born.

00:27:21.000 So then we have six.

00:27:22.000 We said, okay, all right, we gotta think about what's going on here, why this is happening, and we need to make a decision.

00:27:27.000 I mean, you could have 20 people moving at that rate.

00:27:29.000 But we stopped at a half dozen.

00:27:29.000 Exactly.

00:27:31.000 So what are some of the lessons in parenting?

00:27:33.000 This one I definitely need to take from you.

00:27:34.000 So right now, as I say, I have a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and one who has yet to be born.

00:27:38.000 And it's, as you say, it gets more complicated.

00:27:42.000 It's different.

00:27:43.000 It's easier in some ways because you don't worry so much the kids are going to stick a fork in the electric socket.

00:27:48.000 But at the same time, they have new problems.

00:27:50.000 They have new issues.

00:27:51.000 They're propping up all the time.

00:27:52.000 Well, thank you for asking.

00:27:53.000 I'm certainly not an expert in this, but one of the things, the three keys that Chelsea and I have always come back to when we're up at night going, oh, I'm a horrible parent, you know, have I done this right?

00:27:59.000 for parents as the kids start to get older?

00:28:01.000 Well, thank you for asking.

00:28:04.000 I'm certainly not an expert in this, but one of the things that the three keys that Chelsea and I have always come back to when we're up at night going, oh, I'm a horrible parent.

00:28:15.000 You know, have I done this right?

00:28:17.000 We come back to these three things.

00:28:19.000 And one is I want to strive to be the kind of person I want my More is caught than taught.

00:28:27.000 Kids naturally play follow the leader.

00:28:28.000 So your son, your daughter are going to be looking at you going, what does daddy do?

00:28:31.000 What does mom do? 1.00

00:28:32.000 And they like to copy us.

00:28:34.000 You know, that's why he likes to walk around in your shoes or likes to pick up your briefcase.

00:28:38.000 And so if I want my kids to be joyful, if I want my kids to be compassionate, if I want my kids to trust God in difficult circumstances, model it for them.

00:28:48.000 Show them what it looks like so that they don't have to figure it out.

00:28:50.000 Or imagine it.

00:28:51.000 They can say, oh, yeah, that's what my dad did.

00:28:53.000 That's what my mom did. 1.00

00:28:55.000 And when I mess up, ask them for forgiveness.

00:28:58.000 Some people think that would be weak, to ask forgiveness from your kids.

00:29:03.000 But that's actually modeling for them the strength that you need to be humble when you make a mistake.

00:29:09.000 Those are the kinds of things, along with keeping their heart, understanding that relationship is the most important thing.

00:29:18.000 Sometimes a house can easily turn into a correctional facility, you know?

00:29:21.000 And it's just, you know, say please, say thank you, sit down, don't do that.

00:29:26.000 When really, while those are important, at the end of the day, we're all going to make mistakes.

00:29:30.000 And if I lose the heart of my child, I've lost the battle.

00:29:33.000 They're going to ice me out.

00:29:34.000 They're not going to listen.

00:29:35.000 They're going to go somewhere else where they feel like somebody listens, cares for them.

00:29:39.000 And so keeping that relationship strong through the good times, through the difficult times, I think is paramount.

00:29:45.000 And then point them to truth.

00:29:47.000 You know, I mean, the kids get inundated with so much error, with so much, you know, right is wrong, wrong is right.

00:29:54.000 And for me, I go to God's Word, those principles, those ancient truths that I can always go to.

00:30:02.000 You know, you talked about the Hebrew Scriptures and the Book of Proverbs.

00:30:05.000 How amazing is the Book of Proverbs to go back in there and say, What are the time-tested principles that always produce blessing and good things and protection?

00:30:17.000 I want my kids to learn those things and know that truth is not relative when it comes to morality and things like that.

00:30:25.000 Truth is something that they can build their life on.

00:30:29.000 I mean, this seems to be one of the areas where our society has really gone off the rails, is this belief that we should raise our kids in sort of Rousseauian fashion, just let them free in the wilderness and then they can discover their own values.

00:30:40.000 I've noticed that society, particularly these days, wants to do this with Everything related to boys and girls.

00:30:45.000 They want to suggest that kids are going to basically form their own values in every particular way.

00:30:49.000 But it's not just that.

00:30:50.000 It's pretty much with everything.

00:30:51.000 They find their own religious values.

00:30:52.000 And that if you inculcate any sort of values in your kids, you're actually acting as a tyrant.

00:30:56.000 That what you actually should be doing is allowing their brains that are unformed to just experience the world, take in those perceptions, and then form their own value systems.

00:31:04.000 It seems to be not working particularly well for the society at large.

00:31:08.000 So what are some values that you want to make sure kids see?

00:31:11.000 I mean, yeah, I mean, that doesn't work for any other discipline, right?

00:31:14.000 Like, if you're going to go into law, do you just say, hey, figure it all out?

00:31:16.000 I know you're going to go to law school, you're going to learn, understand the principles.

00:31:21.000 You know, people are going to go to war, you're going to train them on the principles of how to use, you know, the weapons and things like that, not just figuring it out on their own.

00:31:30.000 So, the values that I want to teach my kids, I think, are values like trusting in God, Virtue and character, and considering other people more important than yourself.

00:31:48.000 I think those are the values that not only make human beings flourish individually, make them pleasant people, but it makes families flourish, it makes marriages flourish, and I think it's what makes a nation flourish.

00:32:00.000 I think these are the principles that our country was built on, and every time that we get away from those things, we suffer.

00:32:11.000 We go the wrong direction and we can tell by the consequences, the law of cause and effect, that this isn't working well.

00:32:16.000 So I want to teach my kids those ancient truths and those Judeo-Christian principles and that worldview that led to the freest, most blessed and prosperous nation the world's ever known.

00:32:28.000 So in a second I want to ask you about the biggest mistake you think you've made as a parent.

00:32:32.000 That's kind of a rough question.

00:32:32.000 Okay.

00:32:33.000 I'll ask you that in one second.

00:32:35.000 How often have you seen these horrible news stories where some actress gets hacked and then her nude photos are online?

00:32:39.000 Well, two things you should know about that.

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00:33:42.000 - Let's talk about the biggest mistakes that you've made as a parent.

00:33:45.000 So for me, one of the things that I've been noticing is the scariest thing in the world is that my kid's taken everything I do.

00:33:50.000 It's terrifying to me.

00:33:52.000 This is only beginning to dawn on me now because before there were two and four, one and three, and they weren't really taking everything in.

00:33:59.000 Now, if I let a curse word slip, the chances that it will be in the next sentence by my child are at least 127%.

00:34:05.000 And so I've been noticing that every bad thing that I do immediately comes back to me.

00:34:09.000 And so it highlights all the worst parts of you.

00:34:11.000 You don't actually get to see the best parts of you so much.

00:34:13.000 You get to see all the worst things that you do immediately mirrored back at you.

00:34:16.000 And it's scaring the living out of me, to be honest with you.

00:34:19.000 Isn't that hilarious?

00:34:20.000 So you've been a parent a lot longer than I have.

00:34:22.000 So what have been some of the things that you wish you hadn't done?

00:34:25.000 I feel like I've done a lot of bad things.

00:34:33.000 I've made a lot of mistakes.

00:34:34.000 See, you need to ask this question to my wife. 1.00

00:34:36.000 She could tell you, or my son.

00:34:38.000 James, he's sitting right over here.

00:34:39.000 He could probably tell you the biggest mistakes I've made.

00:34:42.000 But I'm so gun shy to really talk about mistakes that I've made on the worldwide web because everyone loves to exploit those things.

00:34:51.000 You slip up with one thing and it's just like, look at how horrible that, so I think I need a little bit more time.

00:34:56.000 Yeah, no worries.

00:34:56.000 I mean, I hear that.

00:34:57.000 It is a very censorious culture right now.

00:35:00.000 I won't put pictures of my kids up.

00:35:02.000 I was talking this morning on social media about how my kids have finally gotten into Star Wars, which is fun, because now we can share that.

00:35:08.000 And so we've been having lightsaber battles, me and my five-year-old, and we have it all on video.

00:35:12.000 And it's adorable, but I can't put that up on social Yeah.

00:35:14.000 because people are horrible and they will go after your kids and it really is terrible.

00:35:18.000 So you're somebody who's been in the public eye a lot longer than I have.

00:35:21.000 And how are you able to maintain protection?

00:35:24.000 I mean, this is really an advice question.

00:35:25.000 How are you able to maintain protection of your kids being in the public eye as much as you are? - Somehow we were able to really just not have pictures of our kids or anything on the internet for the longest time.

00:35:35.000 Now, once our kids had phones and they've got their own Instagram account, you know, they're wanting to post as much as they can.

00:35:41.000 And now that our kids are older, it's a bit different.

00:35:43.000 But yeah, we're very similar to the way that you and your wife feel about that.

00:35:47.000 We wanted to protect our kids.

00:35:48.000 I'm like, if someone's gonna get upset with me, get upset with me.

00:35:50.000 If someone wants to show up at, you know, and have a conversation with me.

00:35:54.000 Like, I don't want you to know where I live and actually have my kids answer the door or have you come after my kids or say mean things about them.

00:36:01.000 So we just kept that real quiet and I was really diligent about it.

00:36:05.000 And I think it turned out okay. 0.98

00:36:07.000 So I think when people look at religious people, I'm a person of faith, you're a person of faith, but when people look at religious people, they tend to think, at least in the secular community, look at that happy idiot, look at that guy. 0.98

00:36:17.000 He's just so happy all the time. 0.98

00:36:19.000 Doesn't he understand that we are all going to suffer, that we are all going to die, that things are bad in the world?

00:36:24.000 Haven't they ever struggled with faith?

00:36:26.000 And it's a point of high irritation for me as a person of faith because I've yet to meet a person who's actually religious who's never struggled at all with faith.

00:36:33.000 So what are some of the ways in which you've struggled with your own faith over the years?

00:36:38.000 In the ways that I've struggled with my faith over the years, you know, I've never wanted to be someone who believed in fairy tales or be accused of being someone who believes in fairy tales.

00:36:53.000 And coming from an atheistic background or just a sort of like secular humanist background, I wanted to really make sure, and so I felt like, have I really examined all the evidence?

00:37:03.000 How can there be someone like Sam Harris, or how can I have these other people who are so intelligent?

00:37:08.000 Clearly, they've got a size 10 brain, and mine's not that size, but I believe that if I sincerely Do the best that I can, if I have faith, if I believe and I ask God, I believe He's kind enough to reveal Himself to me.

00:37:27.000 And so, I have struggled with the intellect and the reason versus the faith, and I don't think that they're pitted against one another by any means.

00:37:36.000 In fact, I think they go very well together, but sometimes I get into pitting them against one another and wondering, you know, is there some stone I've not yet uncovered to unravel everything that I believe?

00:37:52.000 And the more and more that I examine those things and I ask those deep questions, the more and more I believe that my faith in God has been well placed.

00:38:01.000 And when it comes to your kids, are all of your kids people of faith as well?

00:38:08.000 Yes, I would say so.

00:38:10.000 They certainly grew up with a lot of faith in our home, but that's something that's so personal that I can say we go to church or we don't go to church or this or that, but in terms of a living, vibrant relationship with God where I talk to God, I believe that God directs me, that's something that's so personal that I think it's sort of on a

00:38:35.000 You know, it's something that's in seed form with some of our kids, and it's something that's maturing and bearing fruit with others.

00:38:40.000 So you talked a little bit earlier about the values that undergird the country.

00:38:43.000 When we look at the state of the country right now, it's so divisive.

00:38:46.000 Everybody seems to be at each other's throats.

00:38:48.000 What do you think is the biggest problem facing the country in terms of the country coming—it feels like it's coming apart?

00:38:53.000 Wow.

00:38:54.000 I want to ask you that question.

00:38:56.000 You're more positioned to answer that.

00:38:59.000 And I feel like maybe my role in the public square, you know, sometimes I wonder, why does anybody care what Mike Seaver has to say after all of these years?

00:39:08.000 Why am I sitting here with you?

00:39:09.000 And I think that I've been given a platform.

00:39:16.000 And perhaps my role is to continue to point people not toward the specific details of what's getting everybody fighting with one another, but point them higher to the larger principles at play that historically have given us a country where we can debate about these things.

00:39:33.000 And we can have respectful conversations and discourse about these things without killing each other over it.

00:39:40.000 And we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion and we have these things that we all love.

00:39:45.000 And so, I'm not sure if I could point to one particular issue, but I can point to the principles that will solve that issue, and I think that's why I'm trying to focus my energy not on everything that interests me or fascinates me, but on the areas where I think I'm uniquely positioned to make a difference.

00:40:06.000 And that's why I made a documentary called Monumental, or a movie like Fireproof, and I'm doing these marriage and parenting things.

00:40:13.000 You still have a lot of friends in Hollywood, obviously.

00:40:15.000 I know there are some conservatives in Hollywood.

00:40:20.000 Are there any religious people?

00:40:23.000 Would people be shocked to learn how many religious people or would they be shocked to learn how few religious people there are in Hollywood?

00:40:28.000 That's a good question.

00:40:33.000 I mean, it's amazing to me when you grow up in Los Angeles, you have this impression that there are not very many people of faith.

00:40:41.000 Not just in Los Angeles, but around the world, like atheism is dominating the world, and that's just not true.

00:40:46.000 The statistics that I've read are that well over 90% of the world is very religious, different religions, but people are people of faith.

00:40:56.000 Here in Hollywood, I think that there are more people of faith than you would think, or that people would think, but many of them are very cautious about expressing that faith.

00:41:06.000 Many people think that like what I've done, like talking about my faith would be sort of suicide for a career.

00:41:10.000 Yeah, but I have faith in a faithful God who's opened up doors so that I can continue doing what I love, and I think it's really helping people.

00:41:17.000 And so I think more and more people of faith you'll see be coming out of the closet.

00:41:22.000 And not just in Hollywood, but all around the country and the world, people are making projects where faith is at the center because it does well at the box office.

00:41:32.000 And so I think that's encouraging and drawing people out rather than being afraid of the faithless in Hollywood.

00:41:38.000 I mean, this is one of the questions that I've gotten a lot from conservative friends of mine in Hollywood is, how quiet should I keep this?

00:41:43.000 Should I come out of the closet and just be conservative?

00:41:45.000 And honestly, I've had to say, it really is a question for you to answer because only you know the risk factors involved with your career and losing an income and with your kids and all of this.

00:41:55.000 But I mean, you do see the social sanctions that are brought to bear on people.

00:41:58.000 Just for going to a particular church.

00:41:59.000 I remember Chris Pratt going to a church that was considered pro-traditional marriage.

00:42:03.000 Suddenly he was getting all sorts of flack, even though he never made a statement on the issue one way or another.

00:42:08.000 And so the idea of people in Hollywood just beginning to come out and say, yes, I'm a person of faith.

00:42:13.000 I go to church regularly.

00:42:14.000 I'm a Bible believer.

00:42:15.000 It seems like the social sanctions are incredibly strong.

00:42:17.000 So what would your advice be to people who haven't done what you've done and just come out and said, listen, here's who I am and here's what I believe and deal with it?

00:42:24.000 Personally?

00:42:25.000 You only live once, right?

00:42:27.000 You only live once, and I would say go with your convictions.

00:42:30.000 I don't want to look back and go, ah, I wish I could do that over again.

00:42:33.000 I wish I had some courage, and I wish I didn't care so much about what other people thought.

00:42:39.000 I care about people, which is why I want to try to speak the truth and live the truth in a compassionate way.

00:42:46.000 And if I don't do that, I'm really not loving people.

00:42:49.000 I'm really just sort of protecting myself and my career, which is selfish.

00:42:54.000 So I say, go with your convictions.

00:42:56.000 You only live once.

00:42:57.000 Do what you believe you're here to do.

00:42:59.000 So, I don't mean to sound selfish, but you brought me a gift.

00:43:02.000 I've heard that there is a gift awaiting me.

00:43:04.000 Yes, I did.

00:43:04.000 I'm very eager to give it to you.

00:43:05.000 Okay, excellent.

00:43:09.000 That is amazing and also large.

00:43:13.000 That is incredible and large.

00:43:15.000 What is this?

00:43:18.000 I'll tell you what this is.

00:43:21.000 I made a documentary several years ago called Monumental, in which I retraced the escape route of the Pilgrims.

00:43:26.000 The reason I made it was not for political reasons, but as a dad, I'm going, our country seems to be going down the tubes.

00:43:33.000 What do we need to do?

00:43:34.000 Well, the left blames the right.

00:43:35.000 The right blames the left.

00:43:37.000 The poor blame the rich.

00:43:38.000 The rich blame the poor.

00:43:39.000 I'm thinking, why can't we just go back to what made this country so unique in the first place?

00:43:43.000 So I went and retraced the escape route of the Pilgrims to figure out who they were. 1.00

00:43:47.000 What did they do?

00:43:48.000 Why did they come here?

00:43:49.000 And I learned that these were the free thinking, out of the box, Faithful people who came here to do something that in their minds had not been tried successfully for 3,000 years since the ancient Hebrew Republic under the leadership of Moses.

00:44:06.000 They felt that the ancient Hebrews were given the divine constitution in the Torah and they wanted to import those principles of liberty and justice to the New World.

00:44:17.000 Our pilgrim forefathers and foremothers left us what I call the secret sauce recipe for how to build a free and just society under the word of God.

00:44:29.000 And they left it for us in the form of this monument, which the real one is 81 feet tall.

00:44:36.000 It's 180 tons of solid granite.

00:44:39.000 It's the largest granite monument in America and it's invisible.

00:44:42.000 Nobody knows it's there.

00:44:43.000 It's hidden behind a forest of trees in Plymouth, Massachusetts today.

00:44:48.000 And it spells out all the principles that you and I love.

00:44:51.000 And this is a replica of it so that people can see it.

00:44:55.000 You've probably never heard of it.

00:44:56.000 It's called the National Monument to the Forefathers, and I hired the Weta Workshop, who does all the sculpting for the rings, to capture all of the detail.

00:45:05.000 If I can, I'd love to just explain it to you.

00:45:07.000 Please, I would love that.

00:45:11.000 All right, this is awesome.

00:45:12.000 I can't wait to explain this to you.

00:45:15.000 So, history tells us that our forefathers and foremothers believed this, that to have a functioning society that was free, you had to start with, what's it say right here?

00:45:25.000 Faith.

00:45:26.000 And faith is the largest of all of these figures, and she's pointing to heaven, and she's got a book in her hand.

00:45:33.000 It happens to be the Bible.

00:45:34.000 That was the Geneva Bible brought over by the pilgrims on the Mayflower. 0.99

00:45:38.000 Her feet are on a rock, and that's Plymouth Rock.

00:45:41.000 And she has a star on her forehead representing wisdom.

00:45:45.000 And so they would reason from the scriptures to create their society.

00:45:49.000 Now check this out.

00:45:50.000 Faith is then expressed in these four key ways.

00:45:53.000 Number one, it's first expressed through morality.

00:45:56.000 And morality is depicted as a woman here holding the Ten Commandments in her left hand and the Scroll of Revelation in her right hand.

00:46:06.000 That represents both the Old and the New Testament.

00:46:09.000 But they believe that morality was not something that could be imposed externally by a king or a tyrant.

00:46:14.000 So on the left, it says evangelist.

00:46:17.000 And they believe that God's Word needed to be proclaimed so that there was a transformation of the heart, that the grace of God would change you on the inside, so then you loved the standard on the outside.

00:46:29.000 Once you had good morality, then you could make good laws in your nation.

00:46:33.000 And there's the judge, he's sitting on his chair, and he's holding the book of law, and his book is directly beneath the book in faith's hand, which is the scriptures, signifying that man's laws must line up under God's laws, or they're not good laws.

00:46:47.000 And on his right, it's justice, on his left is mercy.

00:46:51.000 So there had to be a balance between justice and mercy.

00:46:54.000 Once you have civility in your society, then you can educate your kids.

00:46:59.000 And there's a mother there, or a parent, who's wearing the wreath of victory, holding the book of knowledge, and on her right, it goes right back to the book of Proverbs, there's the youth, because they believe that if you train up your child in the way they should go, When they're old, and here's the old man with a long white beard.

00:47:16.000 He's holding a globe and a Bible.

00:47:18.000 When he's old, he'll not depart from it.

00:47:19.000 And his name is Wisdom.

00:47:21.000 So he has a biblical worldview.

00:47:23.000 Once you have that to the second and third generation, they believe you come up with the result, which is liberty.

00:47:29.000 And that was both liberty internally from sin, pride, arrogance, selfishness, and liberty externally from tyrants and bad government.

00:47:39.000 And if you look, the chains on his ankles and his wrists are broken.

00:47:42.000 Tyranny has been overthrown.

00:47:43.000 And his wife is here next to him.

00:47:45.000 Her name is Peace, and she's holding a basket full of good things for her friends, her family, and her community.

00:47:50.000 So this was the secret sauce recipe, and it's there for everybody to see.

00:47:55.000 And these are the kinds of values that I love and I want to point people to.

00:47:59.000 When was this built?

00:48:00.000 This was actually completed in 1859, I believe.

00:48:03.000 It took 50 years to build, and it was actually interrupted by a little thing called the Civil War.

00:48:08.000 It was interesting because Abraham Lincoln was one of the very first contributors to the building of this monument.

00:48:14.000 There was an architect, Hammett Billings, who actually did the drawings for Uncle Tom's cabin.

00:48:19.000 It was an amazing time that this was built.

00:48:23.000 It is still the largest granite monument in America, and it's invisible.

00:48:27.000 Nobody's ever heard of it.

00:48:28.000 And you can't find it unless I tell you where to go.

00:48:31.000 That's unbelievable.

00:48:32.000 So, what is it about our culture that gets all this so wrong?

00:48:35.000 I mean, now every Thanksgiving there's a big fuss over the pilgrims and how the pilgrims were actually oppressors and how this civilization coming to this hemisphere was a bad thing.

00:48:45.000 Where are we missing the boat here?

00:48:48.000 I'm not sure exactly, Ben.

00:48:50.000 I'm not exactly sure.

00:48:53.000 But I think that if...

00:48:56.000 Often people find what they're looking for, you know?

00:48:58.000 And if I'm looking for these kinds of principles, I can find them.

00:49:03.000 I can find them particularly in history.

00:49:05.000 And when I go back and I look at cultures and nations that abide by these kinds of principles and values, good things result.

00:49:14.000 Every time we get away from them, bad things result.

00:49:17.000 So, you know, if faith is in God and liberty is the result, boy, If we put our faith in the state or faith in the government or faith in something other than the kindest, most benevolent person in the universe, I think what happens is it changes your morality.

00:49:38.000 It changes the laws that you pass in your nation.

00:49:40.000 You teach those things to your kids and you don't end up with Liberty Man as the result.

00:49:45.000 You end up with the Lion of Tyranny and Liberty Man's leg hanging out of the lion's mouth.

00:49:51.000 And I fear that so many nations have gone that way and that we may go the same if we don't get back to what works.

00:49:58.000 Well, I'm going to spend a moment figuring out where to put this in my house.

00:50:02.000 I'm thinking my wife's nightstand.

00:50:03.000 I don't know.

00:50:05.000 She wakes up in the morning, she looks right over and there it is.

00:50:07.000 So I actually have a smaller one for you.

00:50:09.000 Oh, I appreciate it.

00:50:10.000 This is the Mondo gigantic one.

00:50:12.000 I have one that's half this size.

00:50:13.000 And this one, I want to give this one to the president.

00:50:17.000 I want to give one to the vice president, to all politicians, presidents of universities, ministers, and parents who want to teach these things to their kids.

00:50:25.000 What if I use it as sort of an imposing intimidation factor for my children?

00:50:28.000 So they sit one day, they do something wrong, and they just wake up, and it's right next to them.

00:50:33.000 It's right next to them.

00:50:34.000 They open their eyes in the morning and there's faith just looking directly at them.

00:50:38.000 I see you.

00:50:39.000 Correct.

00:50:40.000 It might work.

00:50:41.000 In a second, I want to ask you about the kind of old conservative question whether culture is upstream of politics or politics is upstream of culture.

00:50:50.000 I'm going to ask you about that in just one second.

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00:52:07.000 Okay, so I want to ask you, because you're so engaged in the culture, whether you think that, at this point, the future of America rests in a change to culture or a change to politics?

00:52:15.000 And this is really sort of a raging debate, even within the right, in recent days.

00:52:20.000 One of my old mentors, Andrew Breitbart, used to say, culture is upstream of politics, that you've got to work first on changing the culture.

00:52:25.000 That's what Hollywood did so successfully.

00:52:27.000 They changed the way that we think about the world, and then politics necessarily followed how we thought about the world.

00:52:31.000 And then there are a lot of people who believe No, the culture's been largely lost and the only way to restore the culture is by grabbing the high reins of politics and then trying to almost cram down your viewpoint or instill your viewpoint through the education system.

00:52:44.000 What do you think?

00:52:45.000 Do you think that if you're a conservative and you have a hundred bucks to spend, you're going to give it away this year, should you be trying to put it into sort of politics or should you be trying to put it into either your church on the one hand or into like actual cultural pursuits that are not necessarily just your church?

00:52:59.000 So being a guy who's in the entertainment industry, I'm not saying this just because I work in this space, but I really do think that Instagram and Facebook is influencing my children more than just about anything else that I can think of in the political world.

00:53:20.000 I think that politics is downstream of culture, as you've mentioned.

00:53:25.000 I think that the hearts and minds of young people are being formed and then they vote accordingly.

00:53:32.000 They pull those people in and then they pass those laws accordingly.

00:53:35.000 That's why I think that we need good people in the entertainment industry.

00:53:40.000 in the places where stories are being told that are capturing the hearts and minds of people.

00:53:44.000 So while people may say like, hey, let's get out of Hollywood, right?

00:53:49.000 That's a dark place.

00:53:50.000 That's a dirty place that, you know, they generate a lot of filth. 1.00

00:53:54.000 Well, I think it's kind of like politics.

00:53:57.000 You know, if you don't like it, change it.

00:54:00.000 So come on in and we need people who are going to assume positions of leadership in the entertainment industry, in the storytelling world, because that's what our kids are listening to, the music and movies and television and the arts.

00:54:13.000 And then they seem to want to...

00:54:17.000 You know, bring those values to bear in the legal world and the political world.

00:54:23.000 So when it comes to your own parenting, how did you engage your kids in entertainment?

00:54:27.000 How did you decide what you were OK with your kids watching and what you weren't OK with your kids watching?

00:54:31.000 Well, when our kids were little, we never wanted them to feel like they had celebrity parents.

00:54:35.000 And so while there would be an occasional, hey, can I have your autograph?

00:54:40.000 We really didn't bring our kids into that world.

00:54:45.000 Accordingly, there wasn't a box set of Growing Pains episodes in our house that we watched.

00:54:50.000 It was I Love Lucy.

00:54:51.000 It was The Brady Bunch.

00:54:54.000 My kids really grew up on I Love Lucy.

00:54:57.000 Their sense of humor is Lucy.

00:55:00.000 She was just hilarious. 1.00

00:55:03.000 And then, interestingly, none of my kids have really shown a strong interest in getting involved in the entertainment industry.

00:55:10.000 So my son James, I don't know, the jury's still out.

00:55:13.000 He still may be interested.

00:55:14.000 He's pretty much of an entertainer and a ham, so he might follow in my footsteps.

00:55:19.000 But we never really embraced the The Hollywood lifestyle and the Hollywood circles of friends, we kind of lived on the outskirts.

00:55:30.000 We kind of lived in more of a rural area for Los Angeles, and we spent our time outside in the mountains, hiking, going to the beach, you know, playing in the mud with our kids, much more so than really being part of that entertainment industry scene.

00:55:45.000 Well, one of the interesting debates that's broken out on the right is also a debate about sort of what is OK to watch, as a religious person or as a conservative.

00:55:52.000 So I have friends like David French, and David is very religious.

00:55:55.000 He was a lawyer for the Alliance Defending Freedom, and he's filed lawsuits on behalf of religious freedom all over the country.

00:56:01.000 He served in Iraq.

00:56:02.000 Really good dude.

00:56:03.000 And David, on the one hand, will be like, yeah, I'll watch Game of Thrones, and I'll try and take a good message out of Game of Thrones.

00:56:07.000 And then we obviously employ Matt Walsh here, and Matt Walsh says that we should all burn our television sets.

00:56:11.000 So where do you come down?

00:56:15.000 Where do you come down on sort of what do you think it's appropriate for religious people to watch or how do you think religious people should engage with entertainment?

00:56:22.000 Yeah, that's a great question.

00:56:24.000 Obviously, you're not going to open up the Bible and it's going to tell you what shows you should and shouldn't watch.

00:56:28.000 I think that there's principles.

00:56:31.000 I want to have integrity, and I think integrity means who I am in public is the same as who I am in private, that I don't have dual personalities.

00:56:44.000 When I'm watching television or I'm listening to music, I want to be the same person that I'm going to be even when I'm in front of my kids.

00:56:52.000 I want my whole life to On and Got, the whole thing.

00:56:54.000 I want it all to be there.

00:56:57.000 So for us, actually the television is just rarely on in our house, so for us we're watching The Voice or a basketball game or a football game and we're watching, you know, Chopped, because we like to cook.

00:57:13.000 But those are sort of the staples in our house.

00:57:16.000 Not so much the sitcoms or the one-hour dramas.

00:57:20.000 Or Lord of the Rings.

00:57:20.000 We've probably seen all of those a million times over.

00:57:24.000 So, given your sort of entertainment taste, what do you guys do in your off hours?

00:57:29.000 It's funny, I rarely see movies.

00:57:31.000 I don't even really like to go see movies.

00:57:33.000 I'll go see a movie if my friend's in it or it's something that's important, I'll go see it.

00:57:36.000 But in our off hours, It's really kind of boring.

00:57:40.000 We like being home.

00:57:41.000 We just like being with each other.

00:57:43.000 I travel quite a bit, and so when I'm home, like this month has just been awesome.

00:57:47.000 I've been home for a whole month, and so I'm putting up Christmas lights.

00:57:50.000 I'm weeding in the garden.

00:57:52.000 I'm like scoring so many husband points by cooking for my wife.

00:57:55.000 She's an amazing cook, but I'm just like, honey, just let me go in the kitchen for a month, and I'm just making fantastic things.

00:58:02.000 This Bobby Flay burger that I came across is awesome.

00:58:06.000 You gotta make it for your wife. 0.97

00:58:06.000 She'll love it. 0.97

00:58:07.000 Okay, well, first of all, I could definitely use to score some of those points, so that sounds perfect.

00:58:12.000 I'll definitely hit you up for that recipe.

00:58:14.000 Okay, I'll give you the app that I use.

00:58:17.000 It's great.

00:58:17.000 So you've been watching sort of the era of Me Too, and one of the things that's been interesting to watch has been how Hollywood has dealt with Me Too, because obviously Me Too started in Hollywood, and then Hollywood has immediately decided that it's Hollywood's place to lecture the rest of America on Me Too, which has been Quite amusing.

00:58:31.000 The same people who held up Harvey Weinstein as a moral hero for decades have now decided that they get to, at the Oscars, explain to the rest of America exactly how terrible it is to mistreat women, which some of us already actually knew.

00:58:44.000 You've had this rule for quite a while that you won't kiss any woman who is not your wife, on screen or off.

00:58:49.000 So when did you decide to implement that rule, given the fact you're an actor?

00:58:54.000 Yeah.

00:58:54.000 I think it was when I got married.

00:58:56.000 I think it was just husband 101.

00:58:58.000 For me, it was pretty simple.

00:58:59.000 I made a promise to my wife at the altar, and I figured like, you know, other than being an actor, guys don't have this understanding with their wives that they get to go to work and kiss other women that they're not married to.

00:59:08.000 But sort of like everybody gets a free pass in my business, and I was like, no, my wife's not into that.

00:59:14.000 That's not a good idea.

00:59:16.000 I want a great marriage.

00:59:17.000 Has that ever come up?

00:59:18.000 Have you ever been reading a script and all of a sudden there was something where you had to kiss another?

00:59:22.000 It's not.

00:59:23.000 Yeah.

00:59:23.000 And so not often, but if it has, and yeah, there's been other times I'm like, you can get so many more people to go do this scene.

00:59:29.000 I mean, and it's usually not just kissing, right?

00:59:31.000 It's like you're in bed with somebody, right?

00:59:32.000 I mean, and so, but you know, it's something that's paid great dividends in my marriage, you know?

00:59:39.000 And believe me, I'm so thankful to have a wife who still loves me after 29 years.

00:59:46.000 I want to do everything that I can to honor her.

00:59:49.000 And you know what?

00:59:50.000 I think everybody would like to have the confidence and the trust in their spouse that even when they're not around, that they're That they are who they think they are.

01:00:03.000 And that's really what I'm striving to be.

01:00:07.000 So I want to ask you about this amazing new pro-life movie that you're coming out with.

01:00:10.000 You were telling me a little bit about it before the show, and it sounds incredible.

01:00:13.000 But if you want to hear about it, you have to go over to dailywire.com slash subscribe, give us your money, and you can hear the end of our conversation over there.

01:00:21.000 Kirk, thank you so much for coming by.

01:00:22.000 I really appreciate it.

01:00:23.000 Thank you.

01:00:23.000 Great to talk with you.

01:00:24.000 Thank you.

01:00:36.000 Executive producer, Jeremy Boring.

01:00:38.000 Associate producer, Colton Haas.

01:00:40.000 Our guests are booked by Caitlin Maynard.

01:00:42.000 Post-production is supervised by Alex Zingara.

01:00:44.000 Editing by Donovan Fowler.

01:00:46.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Peromino.

01:00:48.000 Hair and makeup is by Jesua Olvera.

01:00:50.000 Title graphics by Cynthia Angulo.

01:00:52.000 The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special is a Daily Wire production.

The Ben Shapiro Show - December 22, 2019

Kirk Cameron | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 82

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