The Ben Shapiro Show - Left FREAKS As Trump Accepts White Refugees

00:00:00.000 Well, folks, enormous amount to get to on today's show.

00:00:02.000 Wild controversy over a new refugee program for Afrikaners, white people, from South Africa, plus the latest on President Trump's Middle East trip and some good economic news.

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00:01:21.000 Well, folks, every day a new controversy. 1.00

00:01:23.000 This controversy, particularly stupid. 0.99

00:01:25.000 So, the Trump administration has decided to grant some white South Africans refugee status. 1.00

00:01:31.000 Why?

00:01:31.000 Well, because the government in South Africa discriminates against white South Africans.

00:01:35.000 According to the New York Times, dozens of white South Africans arrived in the United States on Monday on a charter jet after being granted refugee status by the Trump administration, which has made it virtually impossible for any other refugees to seek safe haven in America.

00:01:46.000 And this, of course, is the problem that the left and the media are having.

00:01:49.000 Why do these refugees get in when, say, Afghan refugees are not getting in? 0.94

00:01:53.000 The arrival represents a drastic reversal, says The New York Times, in the United States'refugee policies, which have long focused on helping people fleeing war, famine and genocide.

00:02:01.000 The South Africans say they've been discriminated against, denied job opportunities and been subject to violence because of their race, though the specifics of their case.

00:02:08.000 So, President Trump?

00:02:12.000 Said farmers are being killed.

00:02:13.000 He's talking about in South Africa.

00:02:14.000 There have been a spate of murders of farmers in South Africa.

00:02:17.000 Farmers in South Africa, people who own land in South Africa, are disproportionately white compared to the surrounding population, which means that many of the farmers who are being killed are in fact white.

00:02:25.000 And yes, there have been enormous numbers of farmers who are killed for racial reasons.

00:02:30.000 I mean, at the very least, the sort of evidence left on scene at the murders suggests that race played a part.

00:02:36.000 President Trump had this to say about...

00:02:39.000 Why he was allowing the refugees to enter the United States from South Africa?

00:02:44.000 Because they're being killed.

00:02:46.000 And we don't want to see people be killed.

00:02:49.000 Now, South Africa leadership is coming to see me, I understand, sometime next week.

00:02:55.000 And, you know, we're supposed to have a, I guess, a G20 meeting there or something.

00:03:00.000 But we're having a G20 meeting.

00:03:02.000 I don't know how we can go unless that situation's taken care of.

00:03:05.000 But it's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't want to write about.

00:03:09.000 But it's a terrible thing that's taking place.

00:03:11.000 And farmers are being killed. 0.99

00:03:15.000 They happen to be white. 0.99

00:03:17.000 But whether they're white or black makes no difference to me. 0.98

00:03:20.000 But white farmers are being brutally killed and their land is being confiscated in South Africa. 0.98

00:03:27.000 it.

00:03:27.000 you Okay, the last part is actually the relevant part.

00:03:31.000 We'll talk about whether in fact there's a quote-unquote genocide.

00:03:34.000 of whites in South Africa in just a little while with Dr. Ernst Root, who is the deputy CEO of Afroforum.

00:03:41.000 And we will talk with him about what exactly is happening there because obviously he's the guy on the ground who's been on the show before and wanted to get an update.

00:03:48.000 But in order to understand why the United States is bringing Afrikaners to the United States, we actually have to know a little bit of the history.

00:03:55.000 So Afrikaners, boers, have been in South Africa since 1652. 1.00

00:03:59.000 That's when the Dutch East India Company established a station at the Cape of Good Hope.

00:04:02.000 What does this mean?

00:04:03.000 Well, it means that for legitimately 350 years, there have been white people in South Africa.

00:04:08.000 Originally, the Afrikaners were Dutch.

00:04:11.000 Eventually, they were joined by both German and French citizens.

00:04:14.000 The British Empire came in the early 19th century to establish its own colonies in South Africa.

00:04:19.000 Eventually, this led to conflict.

00:04:21.000 The British expanded their reach.

00:04:22.000 The Boers made their way inland because they didn't actually want to be under the edict of the British Empire eventually.

00:04:29.000 There were some conflicts.

00:04:30.000 The biggest conflict was the Second Boer War.

00:04:32.000 That was because the Afrikaners were in an area called the Transvaal.

00:04:36.000 The Transvaal, it turned out, was a region very heavy in gold.

00:04:38.000 Today, you hear about the BRICS nations and you hear about the reliance on gold.

00:04:43.000 South African gold has been a very big thing for a century and a half.

00:04:46.000 The finding of gold in the Transvaal essentially incentivized the British Empire to try and expand its holdings in South Africa, leading to the Second Boer War.

00:04:55.000 That eventually ended with the British Empire victorious.

00:04:58.000 In 1948, fast forward half a century, the National Party came to power and adopted a formal regime of apartheid.

00:05:04.000 By 1950, the races were being categorized by law with special privileges for whites as opposed to blacks.

00:05:10.000 In 1960, the so-called Sharpeville Massacre ended with the death of 69 anti-apartheid.

00:05:16.000 Protesters.

00:05:16.000 In 1961, Nelson Mandela, who you'll know from all the movies, of course, and the fact that he's one of the most famous men who ever lived, declared the end of nonviolent resistance and actually began engaging in violent activities directed against the government.

00:05:28.000 He was arrested the next year.

00:05:29.000 He was sentenced to life imprisonment, and he would end up spending nearly the next three decades in prison.

00:05:34.000 In 1965, South Africa finally gained its independence, but as Rhodesia, with a whites-only government.

00:05:40.000 So the regime of apartheid, black people had no say in the government. 0.61

00:05:43.000 They had no say over the direction of the country.

00:05:45.000 Over time, international pressure led to the eventual end of apartheid with the ban on the African National Congress, which was Mandela's party, ended in 1990.

00:05:55.000 Mandela's freed from prison in 1994, who's eventually inaugurated as president of South Africa.

00:06:01.000 And according to the media, that's where the story basically ends.

00:06:04.000 Because we're not supposed to talk about anything that happened after the end of apartheid.

00:06:07.000 Apartheid bad, apartheid ends, everything hunky-dory from here on in. 0.96

00:06:10.000 Now, two things can be true at once.

00:06:11.000 Apartheid was an evil system. 0.96

00:06:13.000 It was wrong morally.

00:06:14.000 And it was bad.

00:06:15.000 Also, things that happened after apartheid, lots of bad things have happened after apartheid.

00:06:20.000 There are lots of bad things in the world.

00:06:21.000 And one of the dumb ways to cover politics is to suggest that because a bad thing is happening in one direction, that means no bad things have ever happened in the other direction or will ever happen in the other direction.

00:06:32.000 So, since the end of apartheid, there has been a radical upsurge in the amount of racial discrimination against whites. 0.72

00:06:41.000 Now, We have to discuss the sort of population of whites in South Africa.

00:06:45.000 How many whites are there?

00:06:47.000 So let's talk about the population breakdown of South Africa by race.

00:06:50.000 I turn to our sponsors over perplexity to answer that question.

00:06:53.000 What is the population breakdown of South Africa by race?

00:06:57.000 And how has it changed since 1900?

00:06:59.000 So today, black Africans represent about 81.4% of the population of South Africa colored, which is a reference in South Africa to people of mixed race, ethnicity.

00:07:10.000 Represent 8.2%.

00:07:11.000 Whites represent 7.3%.

00:07:13.000 That is a massive change since about 1900.

00:07:16.000 So if you look at the population in 1904, for example, according to our friends at Perplexity, 67.3% of the population was Black African, but fully a fifth, 21.6%, was white.

00:07:29.000 Even as of 1960, those population percentages were relatively similar.

00:07:34.000 That 68% of the population of South Africa was Black African.

00:07:38.000 Almost 20% was white.

00:07:39.000 By 1996, those percentages had shifted dramatically.

00:07:43.000 Suddenly, 77% of the South African population was black, African, as opposed to 11% white.

00:07:49.000 And today, obviously, the white population has dropped dramatically even further than that.

00:07:54.000 The government has increasingly started to pass laws that are directed against whites in South Africa.

00:08:00.000 Most famously, just this year...

00:08:03.000 The South African president, a guy named Cyril Ramaphosa, who again is the head of the ANC.

00:08:06.000 The ANC has been the governing party in South Africa since literally 1994, which should be strange to you.

00:08:13.000 I mean, usually you don't have one party that governs an entire country for 30 years, but that's what's happening in South Africa.

00:08:19.000 He has now turned a bill into a law allowing land seizures by the state without compensation.

00:08:23.000 This is one of the things that is driving so much angst and the possibility of violence in South Africa is the great fear that South Africa is going to do the same thing that Robert Mugabe did.

00:08:32.000 In Zimbabwe, in which Zimbabwe basically just expropriated all land from whites and then targeted them as a government.

00:08:41.000 Because land ownership in South Africa is still disproportionately white.

00:08:45.000 And what that means is that South Africa, in an attempt to enact reparative justice, this is why reparations are always a problem, because you are taking away from a living human being because of something their grandparents did.

00:08:58.000 When you do that, What you end up with is a system of racial discrimination.

00:09:03.000 According to the BBC, back in January, black people own only a small fraction of farmland nationwide more than 30 years after the end of the racist system of apartheid.

00:09:11.000 The majority remains with the white minority.

00:09:14.000 This has led to frustration and anger over the slow pace of reform.

00:09:18.000 Ramaphosa's ANC party hailed the law as a significant milestone in the country's transformation.

00:09:23.000 Some members of the coalition government say that they might challenge it in court.

00:09:26.000 The law outlines how expropriation can be done and on what basis by the state and replaces the pre-democratic expropriation act of 1975.

00:09:33.000 Now, that expropriation act of 1975 put an obligation on the state to pay owners that it wanted to take land from under the principle of willing seller, willing buyer.

00:09:42.000 Now, it's basically just the state coming in and saying they will take your land and they can pay you zero, literally zero.

00:09:48.000 The new laws allow for expropriation without compensation.

00:09:52.000 What is the limitation?

00:09:53.000 The government is only supposed to be able to do this.

00:09:55.000 In circumstances where it is, quote, just and equitable and in the public interest to do so, which means basically anytime the government wants.

00:10:05.000 I mean, that is not a limitation at all.

00:10:06.000 Just and equitable and in the public interest?

00:10:08.000 Ramaphosa can simply say it's in the public interest to rejigger land ownership in South Africa.

00:10:13.000 We are now taking all the land of white people in South Africa in response to South African apartheid. 0.77

00:10:21.000 The Pro-Business Democratic Alliance.

00:10:27.000 Okay, so, this has been just one indicator of how bad things are getting for the white citizens of South Africa.

00:10:37.000 Again, the sort of hunky-dory version of South African history says that everybody got together and gave a big group hug after the end of apartheid, and that is actually not what happened.

00:10:46.000 The government has not done a particularly wonderful job of growing the economy, ending crime.

00:10:51.000 Or not discriminating against one entire class of its citizens.

00:10:54.000 There are a lot of laws on the books in South Africa that were originally meant as quote-unquote reparations after apartheid.

00:10:59.000 Those included the Employment Equity Act, which basically acts as affirmative action for employment.

00:11:04.000 It says that the government is supposed to mandate that certain numbers of black people be included in particular job sectors.

00:11:12.000 There's the broad-based Black Economic Empowerment Act.

00:11:15.000 That actually says that governments cannot give loans, except if there is a certain level of black ownership, management, or employment. 1.00

00:11:21.000 There's the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act that requires government entities to prefer suppliers that have high points ratings, again, based on the amount of black ownership or black employment. 0.75

00:11:31.000 According to one source, as of October 2023, there are 141 acts of parliament in the statutes that were openly preferential based on race.

00:11:39.000 Again, this is the great danger of these sort of racial reparations logic.

00:11:43.000 You've seen people try to enforce in the United States, too.

00:11:45.000 This is what so much of Black Lives Matter was about.

00:11:48.000 The idea was that America needed to enact its own system of racial preferences as a reparative to the sins of the past.

00:11:54.000 And what you end up with is actual sins of the present in order to try and react to the sins of the past.

00:12:00.000 In the immediate aftermath of apartheid, there was actually a slight decline in race-based law, but by the mid-90s, that had reversed dramatically.

00:12:06.000 Now, as I say, the ruling ANC, the African National Congress, the party of Nelson Mandela, has been in charge of the country since 1994.

00:12:12.000 They have never lost an election.

00:12:14.000 In 2017, Jacob Zuma, the corrupt former president of the country from 2009 to 2018, adopted ANC policy that included, quote, fundamental change in the structures, systems, institutions, and patterns of ownership and control of the economy.

00:12:27.000 In favor of all South Africans, especially the poor, that's coded language for it. 0.60

00:12:31.000 We're going to completely redo all the structures on a racialized basis.

00:12:34.000 That policy included the expropriation of land bill that eventually became law on the basis of race.

00:12:41.000 is a deeply corrupt party.

00:12:43.000 Again, you don't have to be speaking about Mandela to talk about the ANC.

00:12:46.000 The modern ANC is closely tied with the Chinese Communist Party.

00:12:49.000 They received money from it.

00:12:50.000 They're also closely tied with Vladimir Putin's Russia.

00:12:52.000 They are closely tied with Iran, which is, it's now suspected, probably bribed the country to initiate an international court of justice case against Israel just last year.

00:13:01.000 The ANC has been losing electoral support over the years.

00:13:05.000 It doesn't have a sheer majority.

00:13:06.000 In the legislature, it's in a national unity government with Democratic Alliance, which again opposes some of these things.

00:13:11.000 But Democratic Alliance isn't standing up to the point that they can actually stop this agenda.

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00:15:30.000 And meanwhile, the outsider parties.

00:15:32.000 You know, people like Julius Malema.

00:15:34.000 You've seen Julius Malema on X, particularly.

00:15:36.000 He's the head of the EFF, which is a radical party in South Africa.

00:15:40.000 And he's most famous.

00:15:42.000 They're called the Economic Freedom Fighters.

00:15:43.000 They're communist black nationalists.

00:15:45.000 There also, in 2018, by the way, I should point out that the head of the ANC, Cyril Ramaphosa, allegedly said he wanted Malema back in his party.

00:15:52.000 Malema used to be a member of the ANC.

00:15:55.000 Here is a giant rally just a few years ago in which Julius Malema is leading an enormous crowd enchanting, kill the boar or the farmer, which is, in fact, the language of genocide. 0.99

00:16:06.000 If you're talking about just kill the boars, that's no different than kill the blacks or kill the Jews. 1.00

00:16:09.000 I mean, that is what it is. 1.00

00:16:13.000 Everyone who's attempting to read, Some sort of crypto message in there that somehow lets Julius Malema and the people who are chanting this off the hook substitute any other race for boars and tell me that this isn't genocidal language.

00:16:26.000 It just is. 0.99

00:16:26.000 To kill Hamas, kill the poor, the farmer, kill the poor, the farmer, the poor. 0.99

00:16:40.000 He's holding his hands in the symbol of a gun. 1.00

00:16:44.000 I mean, it's an entire stadium.

00:16:49.000 So he seems like a delightful fellow, a bunch of communists who are shouting to kill the boar, because never in the history of humanity have we ever seen communists attempt to exterminate an entire class of people.

00:16:59.000 I mean, except for pretty much every communist regime everywhere.

00:17:01.000 So yeah, you might see why South Africans, who are white, feel that they themselves are under threat.

00:17:08.000 So why is it a big deal that Afrikaners are being granted refugee status to come to the United States?

00:17:14.000 Well, the reason is because the left is utterly puzzled at the idea that white people can ever be refugees.

00:17:21.000 Ever.

00:17:22.000 And they're absolutely puzzled at the idea that has been expressed by, for example, the State Department Deputy Chris Landau, that Afrikaners might have an easier time assimilating in the United States than, say, Afghan refugees.

00:17:35.000 Here's Chris Landau talking about this yesterday.

00:17:38.000 That pause, of course, was subject from the very beginning to exceptions where it was determined that this would be in the interest of the United States.

00:17:49.000 Some of the criteria are making sure that refugees did not pose any challenge to our national security and that they could be assimilated easily into our country.

00:18:01.000 It's that last statement that the left is freaking out about.

00:18:05.000 Why are Afrikaners, why is it that they can assimilate easily to our country? 1.00

00:18:09.000 Well, believe it or not, it isn't about the fact that they are white. 0.63

00:18:11.000 They all speak English.

00:18:13.000 They are by and large capitalists.

00:18:15.000 They agree with fundamental constitutional rights, which are being violated in South Africa.

00:18:20.000 Those would be the reasons.

00:18:21.000 It has nothing to do with the color of their skin and everything to do with the ideas that they hold and the cultural hallmarks that they bear in common with the United States that may not hold true for...

00:18:33.000 For example, Afghan refugees, where you literally have no idea what their ideas are. 1.00

00:18:38.000 They don't speak English.

00:18:39.000 There are a lot of things culturally they do not have in common with Americans, up to and including a belief in constitutional rights.

00:18:45.000 So, yes, I mean, are we going to just pretend that all potential immigrants to the United States have an equivalent level of assimilative capability?

00:18:54.000 Is that what we're going to pretend now?

00:18:57.000 That's obviously untrue.

00:18:59.000 It's clearly untrue, but the left is going insane about this.

00:19:02.000 So the New Republic put out an entire piece just enraged about this.

00:19:06.000 Trump official says quiet part out loud on white Afrikaner refugees.

00:19:10.000 And so they say the deputy secretary's language indicates the Trump administration is willing to admit refugees who are more culturally and ethnically cohesive with the predominantly white U.S. population.

00:19:20.000 Trump has repeatedly attempted to blow up perceived cultural differences between U.S. citizens and immigrants as a basis for installing blatantly racist immigration policies.

00:19:29.000 Well, again, I'm not sure why this is chiefly about ethnicity.

00:19:33.000 I mean, President Trump explicitly said it was not about ethnicity.

00:19:36.000 It does have to do with the fact that, for example, they speak English.

00:19:39.000 And, for example, they believe in constitutional rights, like, for example, property rights and freedom of speech.

00:19:44.000 That makes them much better candidates for assimilation than your sort of rando from the Middle East. 1.00

00:19:52.000 Because they are coming from, again, a country. 1.00

00:19:56.000 Where they have been attempting to preserve, in the same way that, for example, Cuban refugees who are coming to the United States because they hate communism are going to be more assimilatable than people who are coming from regimes with giant government services and they're coming here for the welfare. 0.62

00:20:12.000 Like, we can't pretend that everyone is equally capable or interested in assimilation.

00:20:16.000 That's silly.

00:20:18.000 And by the way, it's not just President Trump who believes that. 0.96

00:20:21.000 Keir Starmer, who's a full-scale leftist in the UK.

00:20:23.000 Put out a tweet yesterday, quote, If you want to live in the UK, you should speak English.

00:20:27.000 That's common sense.

00:20:28.000 So we're raising English language requirements across every main immigration route.

00:20:31.000 That's Keir Starmer.

00:20:32.000 Is that the Labour Party? 0.89

00:20:33.000 Does that mean that he's a brutal racist?

00:20:35.000 How does this work exactly?

00:20:37.000 But you can see why the left is upset, because the truth is that the left believes many of the same fundamental things that the ANC, the modern ANC, believes in South Africa, which is to say that the world is basically just South Africa writ large.

00:20:51.000 That the United States is South Africa writ large. 0.75

00:20:54.000 That essentially, any population that is white and successful owes it to the rest of the world, literally the rest of the world, to import people regardless of assimilative ability because there is some sort of peculiar reparative guilt that must now be enacted. 0.91

00:21:12.000 You can see that in much of the language that is being provoked and pushed forward by the left here.

00:21:19.000 The Episcopal Church, by the way, has now withdrawn from its own working with the refugee program.

00:21:27.000 They put out a statement saying, quote, in light of our church's steadfast commitment to racial justice and reconciliation and our historic ties with the Anglican Church of Southern Africa, we are not able to take this step.

00:21:37.000 Accordingly, we have determined that by the end of the federal fiscal year, we'll conclude our refugee resettlement grant agreements with the U.S. federal government.

00:21:44.000 So, again, the idea is that if they're white people, then the Episcopal Church is out.

00:21:49.000 Which is an amazing statement.

00:21:50.000 Why can't there be white refugees from a country that is clearly enacting racialist policies?

00:21:55.000 Why is that?

00:21:57.000 It's bizarre.

00:21:58.000 Well, Yamiche Alessandor of MSNBC was doing the same routine, singing from the same hymnal.

00:22:01.000 Here she was.

00:22:03.000 So the Trump administration, they're saying that essentially these white South Africans assimilate better, and they're also not as much of a security risk.

00:22:11.000 That's really causing a lot of people to be appalled, frankly.

00:22:15.000 And I also should tell people that this violence that they're talking about that are dealing with these Afrikaners, I've been hearing from people that say there is violence in South Africa, but it's affecting everybody of every single race, Katie.

00:22:27.000 Okay, so again, it's got a lot of people appalled, according to Yamiche Alcindor, to say, That perhaps Afrikaners are going to be more easily to assimilate. 0.98

00:22:36.000 So it has people appalled, according to Yamiche Alessandor of MSNBC, to say that it's easier to assimilate Afrikaners from South Africa than it would be to assimilate people from third world countries who have no history whatsoever of engagement with Anglo-American ideals, constitutional frameworks, property rights, or the language of English.

00:22:54.000 Now, what's amazing about this is this is actually a widely held belief inside the Democratic Party.

00:22:59.000 And it has been since the 60s.

00:23:01.000 This sort of idea that America bears some sort of bizarre blood guilt for its success, that the West bears a blood guilt for its success against all sorts of peoples who are unsuccessful and therefore owes an obligation to import people from all over the world from these countries that actually do not share a cultural history with the Anglo-American sphere.

00:23:18.000 This, in fact, is one of the driving forces behind the shift in immigration in the United States.

00:23:22.000 So here is a chart.

00:23:24.000 This is a chart based on the yearbook of immigration statistics and crafted.

00:23:29.000 By a woman named Talia Bronstein, showing the point of origin, the country of last residence, for immigrants throughout American history.

00:23:38.000 And of course, what you see here is that if you go back to the 19th century, predominantly, you are seeing immigrants from Europe.

00:23:46.000 You're seeing an enormous number of immigrants in, say, 1850 from the UK, an enormous number from Ireland, a huge number from Germany.

00:23:54.000 Now, it's worth noting at the time that there were still major concerns in the United States about the assimilation of Germans and Irish.

00:24:00.000 I mean, there is open anti-German and anti-Irish discrimination in the United States during this period.

00:24:05.000 The Know-Nothing Party, which was actually a rather large force in American politics, was created as a response to immigration largely from Ireland.

00:24:15.000 I mean, Gangs of New York, the movie with Leonardo DiCaprio and Daniel Day-Lewis, is based specifically on this thing, based on anti-immigrant sentiment.

00:24:23.000 Against what we would now call white people. 0.76

00:24:25.000 There's always been questions in the United States about how easy it is to assimilate people from various countries.

00:24:31.000 And what does that mean for the people who are born in the United States?

00:24:34.000 But what you see is a massive shift in the immigration status of the United States, in how immigration is done in the United States, beginning in about 1965.

00:24:43.000 So all the way up until 1965, you see, first of all, enormous growth in the U.S. population via immigration.

00:24:51.000 Basically, all the way up to the early 1920s.

00:24:54.000 And most of that immigration, again, is from Europe.

00:24:56.000 You're talking an enormous number from Austria-Hungary, from Ireland, from Italy now, from Russia.

00:25:02.000 There's a shift toward Eastern and Southern Europe as opposed to Western Europe.

00:25:05.000 But all those people would now be considered quote-unquote white.

00:25:09.000 And again, there were serious considerations in American immigration history with regards to how do you assimilate, for example, Jewish immigrants from Russia.

00:25:16.000 This is a major issue.

00:25:18.000 And it led to some...

00:25:19.000 Rather discriminatory policies at, say, country clubs, for example.

00:25:23.000 Okay, so in the 1920s, there was a radical downshift in terms of immigration.

00:25:27.000 That's what, on this chart, you can see a giant decline in immigration that stretches from about 1920 all the way until basically the end of World War II.

00:25:35.000 And then, following World War II, in 1965, there was an immigration bill sponsored by Teddy Kennedy, the so-called Immigration and Nationality Act, and it radically shifted how immigration was done.

00:25:46.000 In the United States, you wonder why it used to be all European immigrants, and now it is almost no European immigrants.

00:25:50.000 And the answer is because of Teddy Kennedy's 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act.

00:25:56.000 So it used to be that the United States had a system of quotas, and those quotas were largely based on who can assimilate most easily.

00:26:02.000 And so it preferenced people who are from, for example, Western Europe, and then it went to people who are from Eastern Europe, and then went to people who are from Africa or from Asia.

00:26:10.000 And there were quotas based on country.

00:26:12.000 In 1965, those quotas were completely exploded.

00:26:15.000 And instead, it established a new preference system that was based on family reunification, chain migration.

00:26:20.000 So if you got in, you got to bring your entire family.

00:26:24.000 And it obliterated all sort of quota systems with regard to Europe.

00:26:30.000 So the law set annual caps at the time, 170,000 visas for the Eastern Hemisphere, and a cap of 120,000 visas for the Western Hemisphere.

00:26:39.000 Now again, the Western Hemisphere would be South and Latin America.

00:26:41.000 And you can see the predictable result, which is that Over the course of time, you now see a massive uptick in the number of immigrants from Mexico, a huge number of immigrants from the Caribbean and other Americas like Latin America, Central America, huge uptick from Asia as well.

00:26:57.000 European immigration basically plummets to almost zero.

00:27:00.000 I mean, really, really, really down.

00:27:02.000 And the question is, why exactly did Teddy Kennedy do this?

00:27:04.000 And the answer is that Teddy Kennedy, like many members of the left, did believe in this idea of a sort of European guilt toward the rest of the world and an American guilt.

00:27:15.000 And so what he said is that the existing quota system was fundamentally unfair and inconsistent with American values.

00:27:21.000 This is where you get the Democrats today saying that the sort of credo of Americanism is the Statue of Liberty where you welcome your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free.

00:27:31.000 That is how immigration needs to be done. 0.97

00:27:34.000 As opposed to, you can come here.

00:27:37.000 But there will be no welfare system to support you.

00:27:39.000 And this is a huge difference, by the way, in the pre-World War II era in the United States versus the post-World War II era in the United States.

00:27:45.000 The type of immigrants who are drawn to the United States change over time.

00:27:48.000 America, in 1900, basically had zero welfare system for people who were coming here. 0.92

00:27:52.000 So when my great-great-grandparents got to the United States in the early 20th century, there was no welfare system, essentially.

00:27:58.000 They came to the United States.

00:28:00.000 They had to, by dint of necessity, learn English and assimilate.

00:28:04.000 Because if they did not, they would not make enough money to survive.

00:28:07.000 And so they assimilated.

00:28:08.000 This is very common, by the way, in Jewish households in the early 20th century is that they would come speaking Yiddish and then they would tell their kids they were not allowed to speak Yiddish in the house so that their kids would learn to speak English with more alacrity and assimilate more quickly.

00:28:21.000 And that is for both cultural reasons, you're leaving behind the old country, and also because the idea is that you need to assimilate to American culture.

00:28:29.000 That's why you came, is to be part of the American dream, not to bring the European or Eastern European or Russian or Lithuanian dream to the United States.

00:28:36.000 The American dream is a different thing.

00:28:38.000 It's about upward mobility, assimilation to a commerce-driven culture that has at its basis Anglo-American law.

00:28:44.000 After World War II, the growth of the American welfare state and the availability of that welfare changes the kinds of people who are coming to the United States.

00:28:50.000 Not in terms of race, but in terms of who's trying to get in.

00:28:53.000 There's a difference between a job available sign in the window of a store and a free donuts sign in the window of a store.

00:29:02.000 A jobs available sign is likely to draw people who want to work and get a job.

00:29:06.000 A free donut sign is likely to draw everyone who wants a free donut.

00:29:10.000 And the United States totally changed its immigration system for the free donut crowd. 0.98

00:29:14.000 And again, the reason that Teddy Kennedy did this, and he literally said this openly, is that he believed it was unfair and un-American to have quota systems based on the assimilative capacity of the people coming in.

00:29:26.000 By the way, he also lied.

00:29:28.000 He said that the bill would, quote, not flood our cities with immigrants or upset.

00:29:31.000 The ethnic mix of our society.

00:29:33.000 So it's all based on the sort of fairness and justice and reparative fairness and justice.

00:29:37.000 And this is why you're seeing so much heartburn over the possibility of Afrikaner immigrants because what President Trump is saying is the truth, which is that not everybody is going to assimilate to American values at the same rate.

00:29:49.000 Not everybody has those same ideas.

00:29:52.000 We should probably check before people come into the country. 1.00

00:29:55.000 All of that makes perfect sense.

00:29:56.000 The fact that the left is resisting that speaks to A bizarre idea about what America is and what it needs to be, which is basically an open-door free donut shop to everybody who wants to get in.

00:30:08.000 And somehow America owes that to the rest of the world because America is only successful through some form of exploitation.

00:30:14.000 In the same way that there needs to be reparative justice in South Africa because whites used to harm blacks, America somehow owes it to the rest of the world to let anybody in. 0.87

00:30:22.000 And if you say that that's not true, then you're undermining the left's perception of Americanism.

00:30:26.000 And that, of course, is wrong and destined for failure.

00:30:30.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment.

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00:32:39.000 Well, joining us online is Ernst Roots.

00:32:41.000 He, of course, is Executive Director of the Pioneer Initiative.

00:32:49.000 Ben, thank you very much for having me on the show.

00:32:53.000 And thank you again also to The Daily Wire for being a voice of reason in crazy times.

00:33:00.000 So let's discuss what exactly is happening with President Trump and the South African refugee plan.

00:33:05.000 So first of all, I just want to get some facts on the table for folks who are not familiar with the situation there.

00:33:10.000 There have been claims that there is a quote unquote genocide against whites in South Africa.

00:33:14.000 There have been claims with regard to the targeting of white farmers in South Africa.

00:33:18.000 What's true?

00:33:19.000 What's false?

00:33:19.000 What is the threat level to whites, particularly Afrikaners who are living in South Africa?

00:33:24.000 Thank you.

00:33:25.000 I think that's a very important point.

00:33:27.000 The term genocide has been used quite a lot lately.

00:33:30.000 And it's a term that we have to be very careful in using because, of course, it's a technical term and it's a legal term.

00:33:36.000 And it opens up a can of worms in terms of debating what a genocide really is and so forth.

00:33:42.000 I do think the appropriate way to describe the crisis in South Africa is to say that it is a systemic crisis, that we live under a political system that is very deeply and fundamentally structured in such a way.

00:33:58.000 That it continuously and inherently discriminates against minority communities, treating us as second-class citizens.

00:34:05.000 And so we've gotten to the point now where we have more than 140 race laws in South Africa aimed at discriminating against the white minority and the Afrikaners.

00:34:15.000 But other than the racial discrimination, we do have threats by the South African government, not just threats, but attempts.

00:34:22.000 To change the property rights clause in the South African Constitution to empower the government to expropriate property without compensation.

00:34:29.000 And then we also have the violence.

00:34:31.000 We have a very serious problem of farmers being targeted with very brutal farm attacks and murders.

00:34:38.000 But on top of that, what we also have is politicians Very senior and very influential politicians openly chanting about Kill the Boer, chanting about the extermination of minority communities, and them then being protected by the president, by the ruling party, and by the courts and the legal system in South Africa.

00:34:59.000 So let's talk for a second about the sort of Kill the Boer chant.

00:35:02.000 So those have been obviously issued over and over and over by Julius Malema, who's the head of the EFF, which is a radical communist party in South Africa.

00:35:10.000 The ANC government, which has been running the place.

00:35:12.000 The ANC has been running the place since the end of apartheid, essentially since 1994.

00:35:15.000 They sort of want to play both sides.

00:35:17.000 On the one hand, they'll say that they oppose Malema, that they kill the border chants.

00:35:20.000 Or, you know, they might not be the best thing.

00:35:22.000 On the other hand, they've obviously made overtures to many of Malema.

00:35:25.000 What is the relationship between all those parties?

00:35:30.000 So Julius Malema is the guy who's most famous for chanting this Kiel the Boots chant.

00:35:35.000 He was a member of the ruling party.

00:35:37.000 He was the president of Youth League.

00:35:39.000 And several years ago, he left to start his own party.

00:35:42.000 He left because of internal faction fighting, not because of ideological disagreements.

00:35:47.000 And so his new party is...

00:35:49.000 Trying to present itself as the more radical version of what the ANC, the ruling party, should be.

00:35:55.000 But if you look at it from a policy perspective, there really isn't much difference.

00:35:59.000 The ANC tries to come across as a bit more nuanced, a bit more balanced.

00:36:04.000 But when you read their actual policy document, it's very similar.

00:36:07.000 And so what we do have is even though between these parties, you would see them attacking each other politically, competing for votes.

00:36:15.000 But on a personal level...

00:36:18.000 We would often hear leaders, including the president himself, inviting Julius Malema in particular to join, to rejoin the ANC, to become a member of the ruling party.

00:36:28.000 So it's important to understand that even though the EFF is seen and presented as more radical, ideologically, there's not much difference between them.

00:36:38.000 So, you know, there's been a lot of talk, obviously, in the United States about taking in Afrikaners to the United States, the refugee plan.

00:36:44.000 There's been opposition from many of the usual suspects who suggest that perhaps they don't deserve refugee status or people who are offended by the idea that whites can't be refugees, which of course is absurd.

00:36:53.000 What do you make of the refugee plan?

00:36:55.000 Is it the right idea?

00:36:56.000 What is the longer-term solution in South Africa?

00:37:00.000 So the refugee plan is a good thing. 1.00

00:37:04.000 For people who want to leave South Africa, and there are people who want to leave.

00:37:07.000 And there are a lot of people who have experienced trauma, having been in a farm attack, having lost loved ones and so forth, or another form of trauma, and they want to get out.

00:37:17.000 And then there are people who are really struggling because of these race laws, struggling to get employment, don't have a job, but who are willing to work and able to work, but they are pushed out because of the colour of their skin.

00:37:28.000 And so if these people want to leave, it's good for them to leave, to be able to do so.

00:37:33.000 And we would hope our message to them would be to remain connected and to be ambassadors for our cause where they are.

00:37:40.000 But that cannot be the only solution.

00:37:43.000 And I have to say this, that if What the American government does is exclusively a refugee program.

00:37:51.000 It has the potential to be very catastrophic for us because what we need is a solution in South Africa. 0.99

00:37:57.000 We need systemic reform.

00:37:59.000 We have a systemic crisis, which means that we need systemic reform.

00:38:02.000 We need to relook the political system.

00:38:07.000 The way we see it is by decentralizing the system and giving communities self-governance, to have them have a say over their own affairs as opposed to this very close to a dictatorial system that we have.

00:38:19.000 So the refugee program could be a good thing, but if it's only that, then it would not be a good thing. 0.87

00:38:24.000 If it's coupled with pressure towards relooking the political system in South Africa, then that's fine.

00:38:29.000 And I think that's something that certainly will receive a lot of support from all over the world.

00:38:35.000 And as you and I discussed when last we spoke, you're the executive director of the Pioneer Initiative.

00:38:39.000 Your goal is to essentially have more dissemination of rights to local government so that people can actually be protected in the areas in which they live, instead of having an overarching, very strong government at the top that essentially presides over a racialized system.

00:38:55.000 Instead, just evolve more authority to a local system that actually allows borers to preserve their property rights, their rights, their culture, and all the rest. 0.98

00:39:03.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:39:04.000 It's very comparable, you could say, to the American system, or what the American system is supposed to be, a federal system where there is some form of decentralization.

00:39:13.000 Now, decentralization can take different forms, and there are many examples all over the world of decentralized system.

00:39:19.000 We have the Canton system in Switzerland.

00:39:21.000 We have attempts in countries like Finland and Estonia to accommodate minorities.

00:39:26.000 And there are examples all over the world that we can find.

00:39:28.000 But in South Africa, we're sort of stuck in this mindset that you have to choose between Thank you.

00:39:36.000 And our initiative is saying that we need to break through this false dichotomy.

00:39:41.000 We need to look at good practices all over the world, and we need to find a system for South Africa that is based on self-governance.

00:39:49.000 And it's not just for the Afrikaner people.

00:39:51.000 Obviously, I am an Afrikaner, so I want my community to have self-governance.

00:39:54.000 But we are just one out of many communities in South Africa.

00:39:57.000 And I cannot speak on behalf of the others, but I think it's safe to say that most people in South Africa, we can already see that most people Most people in South Africa very strongly agree with this idea that we need to bring government closer to the people.

00:40:12.000 Well, Dr. Roos, if people wish to help out beyond, obviously, the refugee issue, how should they help you out?

00:40:18.000 Well, thank you.

00:40:19.000 So we have started this new initiative, the Pioneer Initiative.

00:40:22.000 If people are willing to help, they can sign up with that.

00:40:25.000 They can become a contributor from anywhere in the world.

00:40:29.000 People in South Africa should know that we don't have the luxury of being idle bystanders.

00:40:34.000 People should become involved with solutions and people should do what they can do to raise awareness about what is happening in South Africa, to spread truth and facts about what is happening in South Africa and to apply pressure.

00:40:45.000 People should understand that Dr. Roots, really appreciate your time and your insight and good luck with that.

00:41:16.000 Thank you very much, and thank you for having me on the show, and again, for talking about this issue.

00:41:21.000 Okay, meanwhile, President Trump, his trade thought is sparking a massive stock rally.

00:41:26.000 The Dow Jones Industrial Average is kind of hanging around after its big jump yesterday.

00:41:31.000 Again, everything is momentum-driven in the stock market right now because of all the uncertainty.

00:41:35.000 As I suggested yesterday, it was my feeling the stock market would not continue to rapidly increase on the basis of President Trump rolling back the tariff regime.

00:41:45.000 Because the reality is that before Liberation Day, we had a certain tariff rate, and we've now probably quadrupled or quintupled that average tariff rate, and that is going to have some impact on the American economy.

00:41:55.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, stocks are surging, but Wall Street isn't ready to declare victory in the trade war just yet.

00:42:01.000 The Dow Industrials ended yesterday with a gain of 2.8% and settled above 42,000, which is above where they stood on Liberation Day.

00:42:09.000 But investors remain cautious because they're not really sure what the impact of the continued tariff regime is going to be.

00:42:14.000 President Trump yesterday talked up the total reset with China.

00:42:17.000 Here he was.

00:42:18.000 In addition, yesterday we achieved a total reset with China after productive talks in Geneva.

00:42:26.000 Both sides now agree to reduce the tariffs imposed after April 2nd to 10% for 90 days as negotiators continue on the larger structural issues.

00:42:39.000 Okay, now, the reality is the United States...

00:42:42.000 We've gained very little, kind of in general terms, from this mini trade war with the Chinese.

00:42:48.000 I mean, we are not ending in a better position than we started with the Chinese, per se. 1.00

00:42:52.000 We could have put a 30% tariff on them in the first place.

00:42:54.000 So all the kind of talk where people say, well, this is all strategery.

00:42:57.000 It wasn't.

00:42:57.000 It wasn't strategery.

00:42:58.000 Liberation Day was quite real.

00:43:00.000 And then reality hit, and they walked back Liberation Day by giving Treasury Secretary Scott Besson control of the vehicle, which is the correct move.

00:43:08.000 There are some downside effects to what's been going on, namely, A lot of heartburn with regard to our normal trade partners who are now triangulating with China.

00:43:17.000 Also, Beijing now knows that if the United States threatens a thing, it is probably pretty easy to back the United States off that threat.

00:43:24.000 If the idea is economic sanctions, if, for example, they blockade Taiwan, well, how long would that last?

00:43:30.000 Unclear, at the very least.

00:43:33.000 And as far as where we currently stand, basically where we are now is a 10% global tariff and higher for China, probably 30% for China.

00:43:42.000 There aren't these big substantial trade deals quite yet.

00:43:45.000 It's better than it was.

00:43:46.000 It's not amazing.

00:43:47.000 And I think that's where the markets are currently sitting.

00:43:50.000 Now, Scott Pesant is laying out the future of the Trump economic plans.

00:43:53.000 And this, of course, is more salutary for investors.

00:43:56.000 He says, yes, it's about trade, but mostly it's going to be about tax and deregulation.

00:44:00.000 That's the stuff the markets are waiting for, is the tax bill to go forward and deregulation of the economy.

00:44:06.000 The Trump economic plan is three pieces.

00:44:11.000 Trade.

00:44:11.000 Tax and deregulation.

00:44:15.000 Trade has been implemented first, and that process is occurring.

00:44:23.000 We believe that the tax portion is going very well.

00:44:28.000 Speaker Johnson, Leader Thune, who I am in constant contact with, believe that midsummer we will pass.

00:44:39.000 As the president likes to call it, his one big beautiful bill.

00:44:42.000 And we believe that that will provide substantial relief for American households.

00:44:50.000 And then deregulation.

00:44:53.000 A hidden and pernicious tax on American households is regulation.

00:45:00.000 We believe that the last administration added several thousand dollars a year to Okay, so again, all of this is good.

00:45:24.000 All of this is necessary.

00:45:25.000 It should be noted at this point that the trade war that President Trump has declared is not by any stretch of the imagination over.

00:45:31.000 Austin Goolsbee is president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.

00:45:34.000 He says, yes, the new tariff regime that we sort of backed into is...

00:45:38.000 Definitely less impactful stagflationarily than the path they were on, stagflation being higher inflation and lower growth.

00:45:44.000 But it's three to five times higher than it was before.

00:45:47.000 So it's going to have a stagflationary impulse on the economy.

00:45:50.000 It will make growth slower and make prices rise.

00:45:52.000 With that said, core price inflation, core CPI, continues to move in the right direction.

00:45:59.000 Consumer prices rose 0.2% in April.

00:46:02.000 Core CPI was up 0.2%.

00:46:06.000 That is below the 0.3% forecast.

00:46:08.000 So we are, again, moving toward normality in terms of inflation.

00:46:12.000 So all of that is quite good.

00:46:14.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment.

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00:47:19.000 All right, so, how about that tax bill?

00:47:22.000 The latest on the tax bill is that Republicans are now, in fact, looking to raise the debt limit substantially, like a lot.

00:47:28.000 The House has unveiled a plan to raise the debt limit by $4 trillion, according to The Hill.

00:47:34.000 The proposal, which was included in legislative text unveiled by the House Ways and Means Committee on Monday, is in line with House instructions outlined in a blueprint adopted by congressional Republicans last month to kick off the process in order to push forward the big, beautiful tax bill.

00:47:48.000 Including the debt ceiling in the broader bill allows Republicans to avoid Democratic demands in exchange for their votes to raise the debt limit.

00:47:56.000 So that also means they need to move faster because you actually have to push the debt ceiling in a faster timeline.

00:48:02.000 You have to do it by July, essentially.

00:48:05.000 Obviously, this is going to happen.

00:48:07.000 Again, this idea that the Congress is ever going to get spending under control, let's just be real about this.

00:48:10.000 They're really, really not.

00:48:11.000 Unless they're willing to full-scale restructure entitlement programs, nothing is going to change about the debt trajectory of the United States.

00:48:18.000 Anybody who's telling you differently is lawing to you.

00:48:19.000 It ain't going to be done through cutting, quote, waste, fraud, and abuse.

00:48:22.000 That is not enough.

00:48:23.000 What actually needs to happen is restructuring the entitlement programs.

00:48:26.000 Meanwhile, House Republicans have released a highly anticipated plan, according to the New York Post, late on Sunday to slash roughly $900 billion in spending over the next decade that is supposed to, quote, unquote, pay for the tax cuts.

00:48:40.000 How are they going to do this?

00:48:41.000 By doing something they should be doing anyway, imposing work requirements on Medicaid.

00:48:44.000 Now, this actually is a structural change that is good.

00:48:47.000 And useful.

00:48:48.000 And Medicaid is a means-tested welfare program.

00:48:51.000 An enormous number of people on Medicaid claim that they can't work when actually they probably can.

00:48:57.000 The committee's main job has been to figure out what to do about Medicaid.

00:49:01.000 That'd be the Energy and Commerce Panel.

00:49:03.000 They're supposed to come up with more than half of the $1.5 trillion in total cuts that House Republicans were eyeing for the legislation. 0.66

00:49:13.000 So Medicaid, of course, First of all, it's insane we don't already have this.

00:49:30.000 80 hours per month?

00:49:32.000 Per month?

00:49:33.000 I mean, let's just chart that out, gang.

00:49:35.000 That's 20 hours per week.

00:49:36.000 That means that if you want to be eligible for Medicaid, then you have to work for four hours per weekday.

00:49:42.000 Four hours.

00:49:43.000 And you can do it via volunteer work or by going to school also to be eligible for Medicaid.

00:49:47.000 That does not seem like too big a push for me.

00:49:49.000 Unless you're on full-scale disability, in which case you can show a disability and you'll still be eligible.

00:49:55.000 Yeah, you should have to work like a little in order to get Medicaid.

00:49:59.000 States that enrolled in the Affordable Care Act expansion of Medicaid would see a federal reimbursement rate drop from 90 to 80 percent if illegal immigrants are part of the program. 0.89

00:50:07.000 So again, the goal there would be, why should the federal government pay for a state?

00:50:11.000 That is essentially taking care of illegal immigrants because then they're just passing that cost on to the federal government. 0.99

00:50:18.000 Medicaid beneficiaries with incomes over the federal poverty line would have to pay up to $35 per medical service.

00:50:24.000 And again, it's a means-tested welfare program, so that makes sense.

00:50:26.000 It required eligibility checks on expanded Medicaid enrollees every six months as opposed to annually.

00:50:32.000 State Medicaid programs cannot reimburse health care providers like hospitals more than Medicare does.

00:50:37.000 Because then you're basically competing against yourself.

00:50:40.000 So if the idea is that Medicare is paying for a reimbursement of a state hospital and Medicaid is coming in at a higher rate, then obviously that leads the hospitals to take Medicaid more than Medicare.

00:50:51.000 It thrusts people onto Medicaid rather than Medicare.

00:50:54.000 And that is not salutary. 0.87

00:50:57.000 You put a ban on Medicaid and CHIP, that's Children's Health Insurance Program funding, for transgender nonsense. 1.00

00:51:05.000 And it bars middlemen pharmacy benefit managers from charging higher prices to Medicaid than if they were to actually just pay for the drugs straight up.

00:51:12.000 Now, of course, the CBO is freaking out about this.

00:51:15.000 They're saying it could lead to 8.6 million Americans losing health insurance and $715 billion worth of cuts over a 10-year period.

00:51:22.000 But in reality, the program was designed for people who are disabled, for people who are truly poor.

00:51:29.000 I mean, that is what it was for.

00:51:31.000 For the working poor and people who are severely disabled and The elderly and children and mothers.

00:51:39.000 Democrats are going to demagogue this, of course, because they have to.

00:51:42.000 But the truth is that it is foolishness for them to have to tie this to a tax bill in the first place.

00:51:48.000 I mean, they should really just do this anyway.

00:51:51.000 I mean, this is essentially just a form of welfare reform that Bill Clinton would have signed into law in 1997.

00:51:57.000 There are some Republicans on the Senate side who are very much in favor of a sort of big government European rightism.

00:52:02.000 Josh Howley is one of them.

00:52:04.000 The senator from Missouri.

00:52:05.000 He called the proposal, quote, morally wrong and politically suicidal.

00:52:09.000 He writes in the New York Times, quote, a noisy contingent of corporatist Republicans, call it the party's Wall Street wing, is urging Congress to ignore all of this and get back to old-time religion, corporate giveaways, preferences for capital, and deep cuts to social insurance.

00:52:22.000 That is not social insurance.

00:52:23.000 If you are not working and if you're not trying to work, that's not social insurance.

00:52:27.000 That is just mooching.

00:52:28.000 Unless you have a severe disability, obviously, or you're unable to work for some other reason.

00:52:32.000 And again, we have provisions for that in law.

00:52:36.000 Medicaid, says Chip Roy, the excellent congressperson from Texas, said was never meant to be this expansive.

00:52:42.000 We have a duty to safeguard taxpayers and ensure Medicaid does not bankrupt us.

00:52:46.000 Cut the waste, cut the fraud, cut the abuse.

00:52:49.000 So it'll be fascinating to see how this plays out with various dynamics in the Senate and the House as well.

00:52:54.000 Meanwhile, speaking of deregulation, I'll tell you what is not deregulation is this Trump executive order to quote-unquote lower drug prices by essentially cramming down Medicaid prices On pharma companies.

00:53:04.000 That is not, in fact, deregulation.

00:53:06.000 That is, in fact, a brand new regulation and a very heavy regulation.

00:53:10.000 Here's President Trump explaining his plan yesterday.

00:53:13.000 But it's called most favored nation.

00:53:15.000 We are going to pay the lowest price there is in the world.

00:53:19.000 We will get whoever is paying the lowest price.

00:53:22.000 That's the price that we're going to get.

00:53:24.000 So remember that.

00:53:25.000 So we're no longer paying 10 times more than another country.

00:53:29.000 Whoever is paying.

00:53:31.000 The lowest price.

00:53:32.000 We will look at that price and we will say that's the price we're going to pay.

00:53:37.000 Most favored nations.

00:53:39.000 That's what it is.

00:53:41.000 Now, in reality, what is this actually going to do?

00:53:44.000 According to Axios, it's not quite as clear-cut as President Trump just yelling at pharma companies.

00:53:48.000 The order calls for drug makers to voluntarily cut their prices or face the threat of a most favored nation pricing regime that would peg the cost of their medicine to what's paid in other wealthy nations where they often sell for less again.

00:53:58.000 He's applying the pressure in the wrong place.

00:54:00.000 It shouldn't be on the pharma companies in the United States.

00:54:02.000 The pressure should be on foreign countries to pay what the price would be in a free market.

00:54:07.000 That's where the pressure should be applied.

00:54:08.000 Now, President Trump loves clocking our European allies.

00:54:10.000 How about do that?

00:54:11.000 Clock them over that.

00:54:12.000 That would be worthwhile.

00:54:13.000 Clock the Canadians over that.

00:54:14.000 You want to talk about the Canadians and the Europeans cheating us? 1.00

00:54:16.000 That is an area where they actually are cheating us, where you have nationalized healthcare systems that are basically cramming down pricing on America pharma companies, and then by squeezing...

00:54:27.000 This is not the kind of deregulation that the Trump administration should be seeking at this point.

00:54:47.000 The EO does call for other countries to increase what they pay for drugs to share the cost for biomedical innovation, but there are no actual methodologies attached To forcing all these other countries to actually do it.

00:55:00.000 So it'll be fascinating to see how all of that plays out as well.

00:55:03.000 Meanwhile, President Trump is in Saudi Arabia today to kick off his Middle Eastern trip.

00:55:07.000 He's going to be visiting the Saudis, then he's going to head on over to the UAE, and then finally to Qatar.

00:55:12.000 Of course, massive controversy breaking out over Qatar, as we discussed yesterday on the show.

00:55:17.000 And when it comes to his trip to Saudi, he's bringing with him an enormous number of business and tech leaders, the goal being to get the Saudi...

00:55:24.000 To actually invest in American tech, which is wonderful.

00:55:29.000 Getting Saudi money to invest in American business is great.

00:55:32.000 The question is, what concessions lie on the other side of that?

00:55:36.000 And what can actually be done in the Middle East?

00:55:38.000 And President Trump's signal contribution to Middle Eastern history in his first term was the recognition that there are a lot of countries there that actually care more about the economy than just hating Jews.

00:55:47.000 That was the basis of the Abraham Accords. 0.89

00:55:49.000 It's why, for example, the UAE and Bahrain and Morocco all joined the Abraham Accords. 0.88

00:55:53.000 The idea was economic development, tech development in the region would be better served than a sort of cross-religion hatred.

00:56:02.000 That was also pushed forward by the fact that Iran was deeply threatening. 0.98

00:56:06.000 Well, now the question in the Middle East is whether President Trump is going to maintain that very wise strategy in the Middle East or whether he's going to shift off of that toward something else.

00:56:15.000 The reality is that America could easily push into Abraham Accords, too, by linking many of the things that are happening in Saudi, UAE, even Qatar, with what's happening in Israel.

00:56:26.000 The United States seems to be simultaneously linking and delinking.

00:56:29.000 It's kind of a strange strategy.

00:56:31.000 Honestly, it's kind of unclear what the strategy is with regard to Saudi Arabia and Israel with regard to some sort of Abraham Accords, are they going to try to speedrun and end the war in Gaza?

00:56:41.000 Are they going to let Israel finish the job in Gaza and then approach an Abraham Accord? 0.93

00:56:45.000 What is happening along those lines?

00:56:47.000 But the idea that President Trump is bringing along business leaders to meet with the Saudis or the UAE to actually invest in American business without the possibility of, say, policy concessions on the other side by the United States, that's fine.

00:57:00.000 That's fine.

00:57:01.000 Again, more investment in American business, better.

00:57:03.000 The concessions from the United States should not be particularly rich to countries that historically have not had a particularly wonderful record with the United States.

00:57:14.000 President Trump was asked about all of this yesterday when he was still in Washington, D.C. while signing an executive order by a member of ABC News.

00:57:23.000 Mr. President, what do you say to people who view that luxury jet as a personal gift to you?

00:57:28.000 Why not leave it behind?

00:57:29.000 You're ABC fake news, right?

00:57:31.000 It's only ABC.

00:57:32.000 Well, a few of you would.

00:57:34.000 Let me tell you, you should be embarrassed asking that question.

00:57:38.000 They're giving us a free jet.

00:57:40.000 I could say, no, no, no, don't give us, I want to pay you a billion or 400 million or whatever it is.

00:57:47.000 Or I could say, thank you very much.

00:57:51.000 Okay, well, beware of Qataris bearing gifts. 0.86

00:57:54.000 Well, meanwhile, something I do love.

00:57:55.000 Okay, President Trump did, in fact, through Steve Witkoff, broker the release of Idan Alexander, the last American hostage who was left in Gaza.

00:58:03.000 Again, I know the family.

00:58:04.000 I introduced the family to the Trump, to President Trump himself.

00:58:08.000 Yesterday in video that has to move you, Idan Alexander greeted his family for the first time.

00:58:13.000 *Screams*

00:58:19.000 So that's his mom.

00:58:21.000 He has big hugs, for those who can't see.

00:58:24.000 He was held in captivity for well over 500 days.

00:58:27.000 Reports are that he was tortured and held in a cage by Hamas, which is why it would be ridiculous for Hamas to have any role in governing the Gaza Strip any time in the future.

00:58:37.000 He's hugging his dad, hugging his brother.

00:58:45.000 Etan Alexander, obviously extraordinarily grateful to President Trump, held up a sign.

00:58:49.000 For President Trump on his way back into Israel from the tunnels that Hamas was holding him in for well over a year, saying, thank you, President Trump.

00:58:57.000 Am Yisrael Chai, meaning the nation of Israel lives.

00:59:01.000 And he was a member of the Golani Brigade.

00:59:04.000 So he has a saying there in favor of the Golani Brigade.

00:59:08.000 Again, thanks to President Trump.

00:59:10.000 And yes, thanks to Steve Witkoff, who I've criticized a lot on this program.

00:59:13.000 I think deservedly so.

00:59:15.000 And we'll see what deals Steve Witkoff tries to cut off the back.

00:59:19.000 With that said, big credit for freeing Edan Alexander, obviously.

00:59:24.000 Now, meanwhile, again, the relationship with Qatar continues to be a problem.

00:59:27.000 The Palestinian Authority obviously is now working in coordination with Qatar, which is a bad thing.

00:59:33.000 The Palestinian Authority is slightly better than Hamas.

00:59:37.000 I say slightly because the Fatah wing of the Palestinian Authority is, in fact, a terror group. 0.98

00:59:40.000 And the Palestinian Authority still has on its books pay for slay, meaning that if you kill a Jew... 0.75

00:59:46.000 The Palestinian Authority had a ban on Al Jazeera because Qatar was so radical that it was sponsoring Al Jazeera in order to push pro-Hamas propaganda, and the Palestinian Authority didn't like that.

00:59:59.000 Well, now, as the days of Hamas seem to be waning, now the Palestinian Authority is warming up to Qatar, according to the New York Times.

01:00:06.000 The Palestinian Authority said late Monday it would lift a ban on Al Jazeera in the West Bank that had put into effect.

01:00:14.000 I think this may be the prelude to a sort of rapprochement between Qatar and Palestinian Authority to use the Palestinian Authority as the new tool to attack Israel, which, of course, the Palestinian Authority historically was.

01:00:27.000 Joining me on the line is Jerome Spielman, born and educated in the United States.

01:00:30.000 He moved to Israel in 2000.

01:00:31.000 He serves as international spokesperson in the IDF reserves with the rank of major.

01:00:35.000 And he is also working to transform the city of David, which is an amazing site.

01:00:39.000 Full disclosure, I'm a donor into one of the world's most significant archaeological and historical sites.

01:00:43.000 Nice to see you, Ben.

01:00:57.000 Thanks for having me.

01:00:59.000 So, you know, why don't we actually start on current events?

01:01:04.000 Obviously, a lot going on in the Middle East.

01:01:06.000 We've seen the release of the last American hostage by Hamas. 0.62

01:01:09.000 A lot of discussion about what's going to happen next in the Gaza Strip.

01:01:13.000 There are some people who are suggesting that Hamas should be allowed to remain in some sort of governance structure in the Gaza Strip.

01:01:18.000 I think it's insane.

01:01:23.000 I think we actually need to zoom out.

01:01:25.000 If we look at this, let's say 20 years from now, a two-year period, Hamas goes over the border, they massacre... 0.54

01:01:31.000 1,200 civilians.

01:01:33.000 They take 250 hostages.

01:01:34.000 They let some of the hostages go, and now they're back in power in the Gaza Strip.

01:01:39.000 I mean, there has rarely been an example in world history.

01:01:42.000 Can we imagine doing this with al-Qaeda, where a terror group is then going to be encouraged to take hostages?

01:01:46.000 It's an absurdity.

01:01:48.000 It makes absolutely no sense.

01:01:49.000 And the army today, I was in the Gaza border just a few days ago.

01:01:52.000 The soldiers are committed to finishing this job.

01:01:56.000 The state of Israel, even though our heart's torn over the hostages, He's committing to finish his job. 0.67

01:02:00.000 And the military plan that was put forth now is a plan that says we will hold territory, as opposed to doing strike, moving in and out, and we will push Hamas to the limit.

01:02:11.000 This is the opportunity to finish them off.

01:02:13.000 Giving them any type of state is a historical blunder and would not serve U.S. interests either.

01:02:19.000 I mean, basically, it's supporting an enemy that denies Israel, denies Jewish faith, denies the sources, foundations of America.

01:02:28.000 Well, that gets to the topic of your book, When the Stones Speak, which is about the sort of archaeological history of the land of Israel and the attempt by the Palestinian authority and much of the Arab world to deny the connection between Judeo-Christian heritage and the land of Israel.

01:02:44.000 So why don't you talk a little about what City of David is for people who don't know?

01:02:48.000 So the City of David is actually ancient Jerusalem.

01:02:52.000 Most people think ancient Jerusalem is in the walls of the old city, which would make sense if it was anywhere else in the world.

01:02:57.000 However, Queen Victoria sent an explorer to find the Ark of the Covenant 150 years ago, and he didn't find it or anything biblical in the old city walls.

01:03:05.000 So one day he leaves the old city walls and finds a spring of water, walks through a cave, and finds a shaft, and when he climbs up, he uncovers an entire ancient city beneath the ground.

01:03:14.000 After a short period of time, he realizes, wow, the ancient city of Jerusalem from the Bible, the city of King David, is actually outside the old city walls.

01:03:22.000 And that is the site that I spent over 21 years excavating.

01:03:26.000 And today, if you want to walk around with the Bible and pull stuff out of the ground and match the pages of the Bible, that's the City of David.

01:03:34.000 Essentially, it is the foundation of Jewish, Christian, and American faith.

01:03:39.000 And every time we find something, Ben, it sends out shockwaves.

01:03:43.000 One part of the world cheers when we find a name that matches from the book of Jeremiah.

01:03:47.000 However, another part of the world, the part of the world you just mentioned, the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, The Muslim Brotherhood that have been denying Israel's history as part of this campaign, they then circle the site and say, that's something we have to stop.

01:03:58.000 And that's what the city of David's been facing.

01:04:03.000 I think that one of the things that's so fascinating about your book, When the Stones Speak, and about this entire controversy, is if you really want to understand what happened on October 7th, you have to understand that it is not a territorial issue.

01:04:14.000 It is really, in its essence, a historical issue.

01:04:18.000 In which you have one party that basically denies the historicity of the entire Bible, suggests that everything that is Jewish-related or Christian-related in Jerusalem is an overt falsehood, and that that is why the land ought to belong to the Palestinian Authority or to the Muslim Brotherhood or to whomever.

01:04:37.000 I mean, the stuff that you're uncovering, the reason it's controversial is specifically because it connects the history of Jerusalem to an ancient past that predates Islam by several thousand years.

01:04:47.000 That's why they call it, right, Ben, the Al-Aqsa Flood.

01:04:49.000 They didn't call it the Gaza War.

01:04:51.000 They didn't call it the war to take over southern Israel.

01:04:54.000 Al-Aqsa is the Temple Mount, right?

01:04:56.000 So I stood on October 8th in the southern border in massive wreckage, hundreds and hundreds of cars, I describe it in When the Stones Speak, that had just been obliterated, and the smoke was still coming out of them.

01:05:07.000 And I opened up the door, I could see the driver's registrations there, and I looked around, I said, this is a flood, but they're not calling it.

01:05:13.000 Southern Israel flood.

01:05:14.000 Their whole intention, it goes back to Al-Aqsa, to the foundations of Jewish belief. 0.88

01:05:19.000 And they have spent decades, and we saw this in the city of David, denying the foundations of Jewish belief. 0.85

01:05:26.000 Every time we found something, they would claim it was a Zionist plot.

01:05:29.000 And to the point of which, we found this incredible road, which you've been on, this pilgrimage road that stretches all the way up to the temple.

01:05:36.000 It's the most miraculous thing ever.

01:05:38.000 And they threatened, not the Jewish workers. 0.65

01:05:41.000 They threatened our Arab workers until the Arab workers quit.

01:05:44.000 And when that didn't work, they tried to assassinate the head of the city of David.

01:05:47.000 And when that didn't work, they took us to court.

01:05:49.000 They even enlisted the State Department in the Obama presidency, all because they realized that when we uncover this foundation, it bashes and obliterates this entire Palestinian narrative out of the water. 0.65

01:06:01.000 And as you've talked about so eloquently, this is now spilled over into American campuses.

01:06:06.000 This is the battle in Israel and in the United States.

01:06:10.000 I mean, it truly is kind of incredible that you actually have an entire group of people who deny that the Temple Mount has anything to do with the temple, which is truly, I mean, it beggars the imagination to make that argument, but that argument is constantly made, which is why, if you're wondering why they care about a pilgrimage road, so there's a giant road that people at City of David have uncovered that goes from the Siloam Pool, which is a place where people used to essentially cleanse themselves before going to the temple, and then they would walk up by two-thirds of a mile.

01:06:37.000 From the Siloam Pool all the way up to the Temple Mount.

01:06:39.000 And you guys have actually uncovered this gigantic staircase that goes all the way from the bottom of the City of David up through.

01:06:45.000 And in order to preserve Arab housing and shore it up, actually, you built this entire extraordinarily expensive tunnel. 0.99

01:06:52.000 In the United States, we would just declare eminent domain, blow up whatever was on top, and then uncover the staircase.

01:06:56.000 In Israel, because of the political sensitivity, billions of dollars have been spent in order to preserve the housing on top and shore it up against earthquake.

01:07:04.000 And built this entire tunnel.

01:07:06.000 And still, you have the Palestinian Authority and advocates for Palestinian-Arab domination of the land and Muslim domination of the land. 0.91

01:07:14.000 You have those advocates suggesting that this staircase is somehow fake or unreal.

01:07:19.000 And folks should understand that this staircase is certainly, when Jesus was yelling at people as they were going up to the temple about corruption in the temple, he was literally standing on this staircase.

01:07:28.000 You can watch.

01:07:29.000 I did a documentary with Jordan Peterson about the foundations of Western civilization.

01:07:33.000 You can watch us walk this road and stop by a stone that almost certainly Jesus stood on while yelling at his fellow Jews not to corrupt the temple.

01:07:41.000 You know, Ben, the time that this really struck me and why I wrote this book is I was explaining this to Leslie Stahl.

01:07:47.000 She came to the site to do 60 Minutes, and she brought her husband with her.

01:07:51.000 She said to me for the first time ever of any shoot she's ever done, Leslie Stahl from 60 Minutes, I show them the clay seals.

01:07:58.000 That we found that of the two people that tried to kill the prophet Jeremiah, she's blown away.

01:08:03.000 Her husband is crying.

01:08:04.000 Then the show begins.

01:08:05.000 It was like windshield wipers.

01:08:07.000 The smile's gone.

01:08:08.000 She never mentioned those whatsoever.

01:08:11.000 The only thing she talked about was the fact that we were digging underneath the Arab homes and Arab homes are falling under, which the reality is exactly the opposite. 0.56

01:08:20.000 In addition to preserving archaeology, we have spent so much money that the only homes in the entire area that now have supports underneath them, Are the Arab homes we've actually dug beneath because of what we've built. 0.79

01:08:31.000 And at that moment, I realized if Leslie Stahl, if I did a whole 60 Minutes episode and she can't get off the story, I have to write the story of the City of David.

01:08:40.000 And that's basically why I wrote the book, because these challenges and the efforts to stop the archaeology are so intense and they affect Jews all over the world on campus.

01:08:49.000 They affect Americans because the founding fathers of America, of course.

01:08:53.000 The Liberty Bell, Declare Liberty, all these symbols come from the Bible.

01:08:56.000 If you wither away, if you chop away at the Jewish Bible, there's nothing left for any of us.

01:09:02.000 And that's exactly what the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, their head, by the way, the U.S. still keeps talking about, certainly in the Biden administration, he should head the new Gaza.

01:09:11.000 He said three weeks ago on the news that the temple is in Yemen.

01:09:17.000 So, you know, it's right up to the top when it comes to this.

01:09:21.000 Well, that is Daron Spielman.

01:09:23.000 You can check out his brand new book, When the Stones Speak, The Remarkable Discovery of the City of David and What Israel's Enemies Don't Want You to Know.

01:09:28.000 Daron, really appreciate the time.

01:09:30.000 Thank you so much, Ben.

01:09:32.000 Alrighty, folks.

01:09:32.000 The show continues for our members right now.

01:09:34.000 We'll be getting to Alex Jones suggesting that world leaders are doing cocaine.

01:09:37.000 Plus, Diddy and Diddy Watch.

01:09:40.000 Yes, there's a lot on that.

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The Ben Shapiro Show - May 13, 2025

Left FREAKS As Trump Accepts White Refugees

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