The Ben Shapiro Show - MASSACRE: 15 Plus Killed in Islamist Hanukkah Attack in Australia

00:00:00.000 Islamic terrorists kill at least 15 people in Bondi Beach Plus, a mass shooting at Brown University, and Rob Reiner and his wife murdered in Los Angeles. 0.54

00:00:08.000 A dark day across the board.

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00:00:50.000 Well, on Sunday, the worst shooting attack in modern Australian history happened.

00:00:56.000 It was a terror attack against the Jewish community in Australia.

00:00:59.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, two gunmen killed 15 people during a Hanukkah event Sunday on Sydney's Bondi Beach in what officials called a terrorist attack on Australia's Jewish community.

00:01:08.000 One suspect was killed.

00:01:09.000 The other is in critical condition.

00:01:11.000 It was the country's worst mass shooting in nearly 30 years.

00:01:14.000 Authorities increased the death toll after a 10-year-old girl and a 40-year-old man died in the hospital.

00:01:18.000 Over three dozen people were injured as well, some seriously, including two police officers.

00:01:23.000 Apparently, the suspects were a father and a son who legally owned six guns, despite the firearms laws in Australia, which are indeed incredibly restrictive.

00:01:34.000 The two shooters were, of course, radical Muslims.

00:01:37.000 They stormed the family-friendly Hanukkah, according to the New York Post.

00:01:41.000 It's called the Hanukkah by the Sea event, and it was run by the Chabad.

00:01:45.000 Chabad is basically a Jewish outreach organization.

00:01:48.000 They exist in a lot of cities all over the world, including in places where there are not a lot of Jews, especially during Hanukkah.

00:01:54.000 They tend to do these sort of big public events in public areas.

00:01:58.000 They have them again all over the United States, all over Europe, all over the world, including in Sydney.

00:02:03.000 And all it is is just people getting together and eating latkes and lighting the menorah and celebrating with each other.

00:02:10.000 And this is apparently one of the most Jewish areas of Sydney.

00:02:14.000 Bondi Beach, the area right around it, is a very Jewish area. 0.76

00:02:17.000 And two radical Muslims, father and son, united by hatred of Jews, decided that they would show up and just start blowing people away. 0.93

00:02:25.000 They were armed with shotguns and a bolt action rifle. 0.97

00:02:27.000 They killed at least 15.

00:02:28.000 They injured at least 40 more, according to the New York Post and the New South Wales police.

00:02:36.000 The shooting went on for at least 20 minutes, apparently.

00:02:40.000 20 minutes of shooting.

00:02:42.000 The police did pretty much nothing.

00:02:46.000 We do have tape.

00:02:48.000 The tape is, again, astonishing, difficult to show because when you see the tape, what you see is people legitimately not doing their job.

00:02:57.000 You see the police cowering in fear.

00:02:59.000 You see the cops who apparently at the police station very nearby.

00:03:03.000 They just didn't show up for whatever reason.

00:03:06.000 Maybe it was out of fear.

00:03:06.000 Maybe it was out of incompetence.

00:03:09.000 But when you have a continuous mass shooting happening and you have apparently at least four police officers present and the police are doing nothing, you do have to ask some questions about the system in which this is existing.

00:03:20.000 Apparently, as far as the firearm licenses go, according to the New South Wales police commissioner, Mal Vanyan, said he met the eligibility criteria for a firearms license.

00:03:31.000 That would be the father who was part of a gun club and held a recreational hunting license for over a decade.

00:03:37.000 Apparently, he was a member of a gun club.

00:03:39.000 He was entitled by nature of the firearms act to have a firearms license issue.

00:03:42.000 So it's very, very difficult to actually get a license for a firearm in Australia, but the father was able to get six firearms.

00:03:51.000 They did a background check.

00:03:52.000 Apparently, the background check did not include whether you are a radical Muslim in any real way.

00:03:58.000 One of the people who was killed was a Holocaust survivor who was killed while shielding his wife in the middle of the attack.

00:04:06.000 His name was Alex Kleitman, and he had traveled to Bondi Beach with his wife of 57 years for the Hanukkah event.

00:04:13.000 Apparently, he decided, the Holocaust survivor, to protect his wife, and he was shot and killed as he lay on the ground on top of his wife, saving his wife in his final act.

00:04:24.000 Eyewitness Arsen Ostrovsky, who was shot in the head, but survived.

00:04:28.000 He's kind of grazed by a bullet.

00:04:30.000 Here he was describing what he saw in the middle of the shooting.

00:04:34.000 Tell me what happened.

00:04:36.000 I was here with my family.

00:04:37.000 It was a Hanukkah celebration.

00:04:39.000 There were hundreds of people.

00:04:40.000 There were children.

00:04:41.000 There were elderly families enjoying themselves.

00:04:44.000 Children, kids at a festival, playing.

00:04:49.000 And then all of a sudden, it's absolute chaos.

00:04:51.000 There's guns, fire everywhere, people ducking.

00:04:57.000 It was absolute chaos.

00:04:58.000 We didn't know what was happening, where the gunfire was coming from.

00:05:01.000 I saw blood gushing in front of me.

00:05:04.000 I saw people hip, so people fall to the ground.

00:05:06.000 My only concern was, where are my kids?

00:05:08.000 Where are my kids?

00:05:08.000 Where's my wife?

00:05:09.000 Where's my family?

00:05:10.000 I survived October 7th.

00:05:12.000 I lived in Israel the last 13 years.

00:05:14.000 We came here only two weeks ago to work with the Jewish community to fight anti-Semitism, to fight this bloodthirsty, ravaging hatred.

00:05:22.000 That's why you're here.

00:05:23.000 That's why I'm here.

00:05:25.000 You know, we've lived through worse. 1.00

00:05:26.000 We're going to get through this and we're going to get the bastards that did this. 1.00

00:05:30.000 Tell me, did you see the gunman? 1.00

00:05:32.000 I did.

00:05:33.000 I saw at least one gunman firing.

00:05:36.000 Looked like a shotgun firing randomly in all directions.

00:05:40.000 I saw children falling to the floor.

00:05:42.000 I saw elderly.

00:05:43.000 I saw invalids. 1.00

00:05:44.000 I saw people just, it was an absolute bloodbath, blood gushing everywhere.

00:05:50.000 You know, October 7th, that's the last time I saw this.

00:05:54.000 I never thought I would see this in Australia, not in my lifetime.

00:05:57.000 On Bondi Beach.

00:05:58.000 On Bondi Beach, of all places, this iconic place.

00:06:02.000 Your children, your wife. 0.59

00:06:04.000 My children, my wife are safe, thank God.

00:06:06.000 They're okay.

00:06:08.000 They managed to get away.

00:06:09.000 But I didn't know.

00:06:10.000 I didn't know where they were.

00:06:11.000 And that's nothing.

00:06:13.000 There's no greater fear, no greater horror, not knowing where your family is.

00:06:18.000 They're okay.

00:06:19.000 They'll be okay.

00:06:20.000 You're a legend.

00:06:20.000 Thank you.

00:06:22.000 Now, again, this sort of attack, I would be lying if I said that Jews around the world don't expect this sort of thing to happen, especially in the aftermath of the radical increase in Islamic anti-Semitism and its presence all over the globe and the increase of generalized anti-Semitism all over the globe.

00:06:40.000 Not a gigantic shock that this happened.

00:06:42.000 The only question is where.

00:06:43.000 And of course, when you're talking about the presence of radical Muslims, you can't just talk about anti-Semitic terror attacks.

00:06:48.000 Obviously, there have been a wide variety of terror attacks by radicalized Muslims all over the world, including in the United States, whether you're talking about the Pulse nightclub shooting, whether you're talking about the attack on two National Guard members just a couple of weeks ago in Europe, whether you're talking about radical Muslims who decide to drive trucks into Christmas markets.

00:07:06.000 This has become a regular feature of Western life.

00:07:09.000 Attacks on people who are non-Muslim on the basis of their religion.

00:07:13.000 This has become an unfortunate, recurrent feature of Western life because largely of the importation of radical Muslims and people who are then radicalized into the West. 0.99

00:07:24.000 Mike Burgess, according to the Wall Street Journal, who leads Australia's domestic intelligence agency, said one of the suspects in Sunday's attack was known to the agency, but hadn't been considered an immediate threat.

00:07:33.000 Police didn't say what ideology motivated the men, but I think it's a little clear when you show up to a Hanukkah by the sea event and just start mowing people down and you're a father and son team who attended the local mosque and you have an IED, apparently several IEDs in a vehicle nearby.

00:07:53.000 I think we don't have to really guess too hard here.

00:07:57.000 We really don't have to guess too hard.

00:07:58.000 Jewish organization Chabad said among those killed was Ellie Schlanger, the assistant rabbi at the organization's local branch and a key organizer of the Hanukkah by the Sea event.

00:08:07.000 Police began receiving reports of shot fired around 6:47 p.m. local time on Sunday.

00:08:11.000 Again, there were over a thousand people there.

00:08:13.000 Two men dressed in black could be seen firing guns from a pedestrian bridge in a video posted on social media by the Australian Jewish Association.

00:08:23.000 Again, the footage is quite awful, obviously, and the proximity was fairly close.

00:08:30.000 One eyewitness, a man named Shmulek Scuri, describes how the police, there were police officers there, and they basically did nothing.

00:08:36.000 They froze up.

00:08:39.000 Can you tell me what happened?

00:08:41.000 There was two shooters, one on the bridge, one under the bridge, just started to shoot for 20 minutes.

00:08:46.000 They should change, change magazine, and just shoot.

00:08:52.000 Simple as that. 0.99

00:08:53.000 20 minutes with four policemen there.

00:08:55.000 Nobody give fire back.

00:08:58.000 Laughing like their froze.

00:09:00.000 Like, what it looks like 20 minutes.

00:09:02.000 Like, and they should, the guy changed magazine.

00:09:05.000 I look at him all the time.

00:09:06.000 I was doing my babies under me.

00:09:08.000 And I look at that. 1.00

00:09:09.000 And he's just rifle and a pistol and just shoot, shoot. 0.97

00:09:17.000 Okay, now, again, the police did pretty much nothing, apparently, for a long time. 0.87

00:09:22.000 There was one local hero who tried to do something.

00:09:24.000 This actually was a Muslim bystander named Ahmed al-Ahmed, 43-year-old Muslim father of two, showing that there are good people inside every religion.

00:09:33.000 The question, of course, is whether when you import an enormous number of people of any particular religion, that changes the culture of the country or whether it creates enclaves that are dangerous to the rest of the country. 0.98

00:09:46.000 But that doesn't mean there aren't individuals who are wonderful people.

00:09:48.000 Apparently, Ahmed al-Ahmed, one of the bystanders here, sounds like an amazing person.

00:09:53.000 Here he is tackling one of the shooters.

00:09:55.000 He takes away his gun.

00:09:56.000 Now, one of the things that's astonishing about this video is he takes away the gun from the shooter and then he points the gun at the shooter and then he lets the shooter walk away.

00:10:03.000 And I assume that is only because the gun laws in Australia are so insane that if he had shot the shooter, he might find himself under threat of prosecution.

00:10:11.000 I mean, this is really quite nuts.

00:10:13.000 Here is the video of the bystander saving people by disarming one of the terrorists.

00:10:23.000 You can see he actually jumps on the shooter.

00:10:26.000 He rips the gun away from him.

00:10:28.000 The guy stumbles down and then he points the gun at the shooter.

00:10:32.000 You can hear the shots in the background.

00:10:33.000 The other shooter is still standing on the bridge and firing at people and presumably murdering people.

00:10:41.000 This guy then walks out of sight.

00:10:44.000 It's not up to the bystander.

00:10:45.000 Where are the cops?

00:10:47.000 Where are the cops?

00:10:49.000 According to the Times of Israel, dramatic footage showed the unarmed Ahmed wrestling the weapon from one of the two gunmen before pointing the attacker's weapon at him.

00:10:58.000 According to Ahmed's cousin, who shot twice in the arm during the altercation and was taken to a local hospital for surgery.

00:11:04.000 Apparently, he had no experience with guns prior to the incident and was shot by the second gunman, who was perched on a nearby footbridge after succeeding in taking the gun from the first assailant.

00:11:13.000 He was called by the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Tanyahu, the pinnacle of heroism, and said, We saw the action of a brave man, a brave Muslim, and I salute him for stopping one of the terrorists from killing innocent Jews, which, of course, is incredible and an act of heroism.

00:11:28.000 President Trump, for his part, obviously came out with a very strong statement condemning hatred of Jews and urging American Jews to celebrate Hanukkah unabated. 0.66

00:11:41.000 Before we begin, however, I want to just pay my respects to the people.

00:11:47.000 Unfortunately, two are no longer with us.

00:11:50.000 Brown University, nine injured, and two are looking down on us right now from heaven.

00:11:57.000 And likewise in Australia, as you know, there was a terrible attack, 11 dead, 29 badly wounded.

00:12:06.000 And that was an anti-Semitic attack, obviously.

00:12:09.000 And I just want to pay my respects to everybody.

00:12:15.000 So what led up to this?

00:12:18.000 Because when there is a mass shooting, we have to ask what could have prevented that mass shooting.

00:12:21.000 Now, the easy answer that people always give is gun confiscation, masgun confiscation.

00:12:25.000 Well, clearly in this case, the shooters had the guns legally in the United States, as we'll discuss when you come to a shooting that happened at Brown University, another attempted mass shooting at Brown University.

00:12:35.000 We'll get to talk about gun control, which springs up in the aftermath of every mass shooting in the United States and elsewhere.

00:12:43.000 But we would be remiss, again, if we did not point out that to pretend that this was unexpected in Australia would be ridiculous. 0.96

00:12:51.000 It would be ridiculous. 0.78

00:12:52.000 There have been warnings going out from the Australian Jewish community for two years about the radical increase in anti-Semitic attacks, including firebombing of a synagogue. 0.96

00:13:04.000 Questions about the policies that have been promoted by the Australian government to import radical Muslims into the country and to make excuses for their violent actions. 0.74

00:13:16.000 Questions asked about why hundreds of thousands of people in places like Australia marched in support of the terrorist group Hamas, or why in the immediate aftermath of October 7, there were rallies at the Sydney Opera House in which people were shouting, gas the Jews.

00:13:31.000 Flashback 2023.

00:13:32.000 Here's what it looked like when people were literally shouting gas the Jews outside the Sydney Opera House in the aftermath of October 7th.

00:13:53.000 A country that imports and tolerates this sort of stuff.

00:13:57.000 Are we supposed to be shocked when some of these people who are legitimately flying ISIS flags?

00:14:02.000 It turns out that they are perfectly happy to commit acts of terrorism.

00:14:06.000 Should we be shocked by that?

00:14:08.000 Australia's Muslim population right now is around 813,000 people, representing about 3.2% of the total Australian population.

00:14:16.000 It has increased 450% from 1991 to 2021.

00:14:21.000 And the Muslim population of Sydney represents 6.3% of the total population, which is pretty significant.

00:14:28.000 Thus, it should be not a particular shock that according to a report published Tuesday by the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, the country saw 1,654 incidents during the 12-month period from October 1st, 2024 to September 30th, 2025.

00:14:42.000 That is about five times the annual average recorded in the decade prior to the October 7th, 2023 Hamas attack.

00:14:49.000 And that was actually down from the prior year, which saw over 2,000 incidents.

00:14:55.000 It is not a shock that this sort of stuff has been happening with increasing frequency, especially given the fact that the government of Australia, a very left-wing labor government, has decided to normalize and mainstream this sort of stuff.

00:15:11.000 I have friends in Australia, some of whom are Jewish, and the amount of security required in Australia for the Jewish community is pretty astonishing.

00:15:18.000 Of course, that now happens to be true, unfortunately, in a lot of places, including pretty much every major Jewish school in the United States.

00:15:26.000 According to the Times of Israel, Linda Bennett-Minasha, the president of the National Council of Jewish Women in Australia, told the Times of Israel, I'm horrified and devastated that this happened, but not shocked.

00:15:37.000 Over the past two years, anti-Semitism has been rising by the month, and the government has not listened to our pleas.

00:15:42.000 When there's no visible consequence to incitement, violence always ensues.

00:15:47.000 Over the past year, Jews in Australia have seen synagogues, schools, and homes firebombed, two nurses threatening to kill Jewish patients in their hospitals, and the discovery of a trailer filled with explosives said to have been intended to cause a mass casualty event at a Sydney synagogue. 0.78

00:16:02.000 Again, not, again, a gigantic shock, and pretending otherwise would be ridiculous.

00:16:08.000 There have been escalating anti-Semitic incidents in Australia for years.

00:16:11.000 Miranda Devine writes over at the New York Post.

00:16:14.000 Unchecked anti-Semitism, cowardly appeasement, lax policing, and foolish immigration decisions, half a century in gestation, have coalesced in multicultural southwestern Sydney an hour's drive from Bondi. 0.79

00:16:26.000 In the two years since the Hamas attack on Israel, synagogues in Sydney have been firebombed, kosher restaurants vandalized, cars outside Jewish homes torched, and rancid anti-Semitic graffiti have become ubiquitous along the Bondi promenade. 0.99

00:16:37.000 Kill Jews is the mantra. 1.00

00:16:39.000 Every weekend for at least two years, downtown Sydney has been shut down by Palestinian protests. 0.99

00:16:44.000 This is what globalize the intifada looks like.

00:16:48.000 When people talk about globalizing the intifada, this is what it looks like.

00:16:52.000 Intifada is violent action, violent resistance. 0.99

00:16:55.000 And when you globalize it, you mean kill Jews. 0.99

00:16:58.000 That's what it means. 0.98

00:17:01.000 Australian immigration minister Tony Burke, who has been busy organizing visas for Gazans, was just busted for having a secret meeting with officials to repatriate ISIS brides from Syria.

00:17:13.000 Women who went to Syria to marry members of ISIS were repatriated to Australia.

00:17:18.000 Last year, during a diplomatic trip, Australian Foreign Minister Penny Wong visited Gaza, but refused to visit any of the sites of the October 7th massacres.

00:17:29.000 Again, anybody pretending this is a shock is simply pretending.

00:17:36.000 It is just pretend.

00:17:36.000 That's all.

00:17:37.000 It is just pretend.

00:17:39.000 This is a point being made by Ayan Hirsi Ali over at the Free Press today.

00:17:45.000 She says this attack was not random.

00:17:47.000 It was not an eruption of private madness.

00:17:48.000 It was deliberate.

00:17:49.000 Jews were targeted on a Jewish holiday in broad daylight in a public place.

00:17:52.000 This matters.

00:17:53.000 When we blur that fact, we betray the dead.

00:17:55.000 But it is worth noting that Anthony Albanese, the prime minister, his original statement completely blurred that fact.

00:18:02.000 Here is his original statement: quote: The scenes in Bondi are shocking and distressing.

00:18:06.000 Police and emergency responders are on the ground working to save lives.

00:18:09.000 My thoughts are with every person affected.

00:18:11.000 I have just spoken to the AFP Commissioner and with the NSW Premier.

00:18:15.000 We are working with the NSW police and will provide further updates as more information is confirmed.

00:18:19.000 I urge people in the vicinity to follow information from the NSW police.

00:18:22.000 You notice what that doesn't say anything about the identity of the assailants and anything about the identity of the people who were being shot.

00:18:29.000 When people get shot at a Hanukkah by the Sea event, it's pretty clear why they are being shot.

00:18:35.000 It took Anthony Albanese hours to actually call the attack what it was, which was an attack on Jews.

00:18:44.000 What we saw yesterday was an act of pure evil, an act of anti-Semitism, an act of terrorism on our shores in an iconic Australian location, Bondo Beach, that is associated with joy, associated with families gathering, associated with celebrities, and it is forever tarnished by what has occurred last evening.

00:19:11.000 This was an attack deliberately targeted at the Jewish community on the first day of Hanukkah, which of course should be a joyous celebration. 1.00

00:19:21.000 And the Jewish community are hurting today.

00:19:25.000 Today, all Australians wrap our arms around them and say, we stand with you.

00:19:30.000 We will do whatever is necessary to stamp out anti-Semitism.

00:19:35.000 It is a scourge.

00:19:36.000 Nobody will eradicate it together.

00:19:39.000 No one believes that from Anthony Albanese.

00:19:41.000 No one believes that.

00:19:42.000 No one has made more room for anti-Semitism in Australia than Anthony Albanese and his terrible government.

00:19:47.000 More news coming up in a moment.

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00:22:19.000 Ayan Herci Ali writes: One truth must be spoken without hesitation.

00:22:22.000 Islamist extremism isn't merely another grievance-driven movement.

00:22:25.000 It's an existential threat to Western society and to the values that sustain it.

00:22:29.000 It rejects pluralism, despises freedom of conscience, and targets Jews and Christians precisely because those traditions stand for limits on power and the dignity of the individual. 0.55

00:22:37.000 History shows this pattern clearly.

00:22:39.000 Where such extremism is tolerated, minorities suffer first and wider society follows.

00:22:44.000 And that, of course, is totally correct.

00:22:47.000 And pretending that you are hiding behind the guise of anti-Zionism in order to attack Jews as a conspiratorial force in the West manipulating the systems in order to commit genocide and promoting every lie issued by Hamas. 0.77

00:23:01.000 Of course, that is going to lead to violence.

00:23:03.000 Of course, it is. 1.00

00:23:04.000 Pretending otherwise, again, is blind or stupid or evil or all three. 0.98

00:23:12.000 It was just back on August 17th, 2025, that Netanyahu wrote a letter to Albanese warning him about the rise of anti-Semitism in Australia. 0.99

00:23:22.000 Writing, throughout the past year, anti-Semitism has scarred Australian cities since her public statements signaling recognition of a Palestinian state.

00:23:28.000 It has intensified.

00:23:29.000 And that, of course, is not a surprise because if people believe that violence is going to achieve its intended effect, they continue to do the violence.

00:23:37.000 Following Hamas's savage attack on the people of Israel on October 7th, pro-Hamas extremists and left-wing radicals began a campaign of intimidation, vandalism, and violence against Jews across the free world.

00:23:46.000 In Australia, wrote Netanyahu to Albanese.

00:23:48.000 Again, this is like a couple of months ago.

00:23:50.000 That campaign has intensified under your watch.

00:23:53.000 These are not isolated incidents.

00:23:54.000 This is an epidemic.

00:23:55.000 Your call for a Palestinian state pours fuel on this anti-Semitic fire.

00:23:59.000 It is not diplomacy.

00:24:00.000 It is appeasement.

00:24:00.000 It rewards Hamas' terror, hardens Hamas's refusal to free the hostages, emboldens those who menace Australian Jews, and encourages the Jew hatred now stalking your streets.

00:24:09.000 He wasn't wrong. 0.97

00:24:11.000 He wasn't wrong. 0.97

00:24:13.000 And by the way, it is worth noting that when it comes to media coverage of both the question of Jew hatred by radical Muslims in the West and also those links to lies told in Gaza, the former director of the BBC's Bureau in the Gaza Strip said that the Islamic terror attack in Sydney was an Israeli false flag operation.

00:24:34.000 That person was overseeing the BBC's bureau in Gaza.

00:24:38.000 So I'm sure the reporting there was absolutely outstanding.

00:24:41.000 That is the thing that matters most.

00:24:43.000 And meanwhile, another terrible mass shooting over the weekend.

00:24:47.000 It happened at Brown University.

00:24:50.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, on Saturday afternoon, a gunman opened fire in a busy academic building, killing two and injuring nine.

00:24:56.000 Police releasing a video of a suspect dressed in black and walking on a sidewalk near the scene of the shooting.

00:25:02.000 Authorities detained a person of interest.

00:25:04.000 They then released the person of interest.

00:25:07.000 Brown University student Ella Cook was one of the people killed, according to her hometown church in Birmingham, Alabama.

00:25:14.000 First-year student Kendall Turner of North Carolina was among those injured.

00:25:18.000 The school said she's in critical but stable condition.

00:25:21.000 Apparently, this was an economics study group.

00:25:26.000 The professor was apparently an associate professor also of Jewish studies.

00:25:33.000 And so we still are waiting on motive.

00:25:35.000 We don't know what the motive is yet.

00:25:38.000 We're going to find out, I would assume, sometime today.

00:25:41.000 The shooter is still at large.

00:25:42.000 So we'll find out as soon as we have that information.

00:25:44.000 We'll bring it to you.

00:25:46.000 Meanwhile, a teaching assistant in the classroom described what happened.

00:25:53.000 Yeah, we just finished up our last review session of the year.

00:26:00.000 And then we ended a little bit late.

00:26:02.000 It ended around like 4:03.

00:26:05.000 And I was giving my closing remarks.

00:26:09.000 And then as soon as everybody stood up and started exiting the room, we heard what sounded like gunshots outside the door and we heard screaming from various students.

00:26:21.000 And then about five seconds later, we see a gunman enter the room.

00:26:27.000 And then he just screamed something and just started shooting.

00:26:33.000 So you saw the gunman enter the room where you were.

00:26:38.000 Yeah, I was standing in the front of the auditorium and he came through the back.

00:26:44.000 So we pretty much directly made eye contact.

00:26:48.000 And then as soon as that happened, I looked at my students and signaled them to come to the front.

00:26:56.000 And then I just dug.

00:26:58.000 And was the gunman shooting when he entered the room?

00:27:03.000 No, he came in, pointed the gun, and then he screamed something.

00:27:09.000 I don't know what he said.

00:27:10.000 And none of the other students know what he said.

00:27:13.000 But yeah, then he just started shooting right after that.

00:27:17.000 So from that moment to the first gunshot, it was probably around five to seven seconds.

00:27:28.000 Now, again, we don't know what the shooter was shouting at this point.

00:27:32.000 There's a lot of speculation, but speculation is not, in fact, evidence or fact.

00:27:35.000 And so we're going to refrain from speculation until we know the identity of the alleged shooter or what actually happened.

00:27:42.000 You know, President Trump put out a statement in the middle of all of this saying that all that could basically be done at that point is prayer.

00:27:49.000 I've been fully briefed on the Brown University situation, what a terrible thing it is.

00:27:56.000 And all we can do right now is pray for the victims and for those that were very badly hurt, it looks like.

00:28:06.000 And we'll inform you later as to what's happening.

00:28:08.000 But it's a shame.

00:28:10.000 It's a shame.

00:28:12.000 Thank you, George.

00:28:12.000 Just pray.

00:28:15.000 Now, obviously, Democrats have been calling for more gun control because in the aftermath of every mass shooting, there's a call for gun control.

00:28:20.000 It's always interesting when there's a call for gun control and when there is not.

00:28:23.000 When several dozen people get shot every weekend in Chicago, no calls for gun control.

00:28:28.000 When there is a high-profile mass shooting, a call for gun control, almost always, the prescribed method of gun control would have done nothing to stop the mass shooting.

00:28:36.000 So citing a sort of outlier circumstance in order to justify a blanket gun policy is always a strange bit of political leisure domain.

00:28:44.000 Here is Chris Murphy, the senator from Connecticut, who for some reason wants to run for president.

00:28:49.000 I'm not sure exactly why, saying that this is all about the White House not taking on the gun industry.

00:28:54.000 Again, this bizarre idea that the White House won't take on an industry that represents a very kind of rounding error part of America's industrial base is pretty wild.

00:29:05.000 Could it just be that they disagree on the Second Amendment?

00:29:09.000 Do you think that there is any appetite for any discussion right now?

00:29:14.000 I mean, of course I will try.

00:29:16.000 And, you know, a month or two before we passed that bill in 2022, people would have said, no way, there's no way Democrats and Republicans can come together.

00:29:24.000 But after Uvalde, things changed and we were able to get a narrow but important agreement.

00:29:29.000 So I will never stop trying to get bipartisan support.

00:29:32.000 But I think it is pretty clear that President Trump and this White House are in the pocket of the gun lobby.

00:29:38.000 I just don't foresee that this White House is going to support anything that would cross the gun industry.

00:29:45.000 And as we know right now, unfortunately, the Republicans in Congress don't ever meaningfully break from this president.

00:29:52.000 So until they get the okay from President Trump to break with the gun lobby, I think the chances of us getting something done are slim.

00:29:59.000 That doesn't mean I won't try.

00:30:01.000 Meanwhile, Raphael Warnock, the senator from Georgia, he's out there also claiming that it's just because America tolerates gun violence.

00:30:08.000 I'm not tolerating gun violence.

00:30:10.000 No one is in favor of violence using a gun or using a knife or otherwise.

00:30:14.000 At least no major politician that I've ever heard of.

00:30:16.000 The question is, how do you formulate the public policy that is most likely to be effective without invading the rights of Americans?

00:30:22.000 That, of course, is always the question. 0.83

00:30:24.000 But this kind of emotivism in which you claim that your opponents just don't care about people who are killed in violence with a gun is silly. 0.72

00:30:35.000 It is a somber morning indeed.

00:30:38.000 And as I make my way to my own pulpit this morning, I'm going to say a special prayer for Brown University and for our nation.

00:30:47.000 And I can tell you that as a pastor who has presided over many funerals, I don't think that there's any pain deeper than when nature is violently reversed.

00:30:57.000 And rather than children burying their parents, the parent has to bear the child. 0.52

00:31:03.000 And so we pray prayers for these families.

00:31:07.000 But we have to pray not only with our lips, but with our action.

00:31:10.000 Any nation that tolerates this kind of violence year after year, decade after decade in random places on our college and school campuses without doing all that we can to stop it is broken and in need of moral repair.

00:31:28.000 Now, again, the idea that gun laws are going to fix this, I have some very, very serious doubts.

00:31:33.000 Democrats never be they seem unable to actually suggest specific gun laws that would prevent any of the types of gun crimes that are occurring other than mass gun confiscation, which they won't actually articulate out loud because they understand that it's politically unpopular.

00:31:47.000 Nonetheless, you know, these sorts of situations seem to be for Democrats an opportunity to mouth platitudes about how the other side doesn't care about people who are dying, which, of course, is not true.

00:32:00.000 Coming up, ISIS shooters in the Syrian military, three Americans dead.

00:32:04.000 We'll get to it in a moment.

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00:34:14.000 And meanwhile, on the foreign front, another terrible shooting.

00:34:18.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, the attacker who killed three Americans in an ambush on U.S. forces in Syria on Saturday was a member of the Syrian security forces who is set to be fired for holding extremist views, according to Syrian and U.S. officials.

00:34:30.000 So, apparently, there was an attack on Saturday at the entrance of a fortified facility of the Internal Security Command that's Syria's main domestic security force, you know, Palmyra, according to the Interior Ministry spokesman.

00:34:42.000 The meeting was described by U.S. officials as an effort to broaden cooperation between the U.S. military and Syria's interior ministry and extend it to central Syria.

00:34:50.000 The assailant was armed with a machine gun and fired on both U.S. and Syrian troops from a nearby building.

00:34:55.000 Two soldiers from the Iowa National Guard were killed.

00:34:57.000 Three others were wounded.

00:34:58.000 A U.S. civilian working as an interpreter was also killed.

00:35:02.000 An Assyrian officer was killed and two others injured, according to the Interior Ministry.

00:35:06.000 Iowa Guard soldiers had been deployed to the Middle East earlier this year, including in Syria.

00:35:12.000 Again, apparently, the attacker appeared to be a former ISIS insurgent who had joined Syria's security forces after the fall of Assad as part of a quote-unquote infiltration operation.

00:35:20.000 This is going to be very difficult because the reality is that the current head of Syria is a former ISIS member.

00:35:27.000 And that government is working closely with Turkey.

00:35:29.000 And so to pretend that the new security forces kind of turned over whatever flag was on their uniform and suddenly there's no threat of terrorism against Americans or allies is really, really silly.

00:35:42.000 All of this is going to have to be done with tremendous caution because, again, to pretend that the Syrian president, Ahmed al-Shara, is suddenly a Muslim moderate.

00:35:56.000 I'm waiting to see the evidence on that one, truly.

00:36:00.000 It seems more like he is mouthing moderation to the West while simultaneously making common cause with Taib Rasip Erdogan, the dictator of Turkey, and also continuing to hug close many of his former ISIS colleagues who have now joined him inside the Syrian government.

00:36:15.000 So listen, hope for the best in Syria, but remain skeptical. 0.98

00:36:18.000 Seems to be the best idea.

00:36:20.000 Navy Admiral Brad Cooper, the top U.S. commander in the region, visited Damascus in September with Tom Barrick, U.S. ambassador in Turkey and special envoy to Syria to thank Shara for his support in fighting militants.

00:36:32.000 Shara had officially joined the U.S.-led coalition against ISIS during his White House meeting with Trump.

00:36:36.000 That, of course, is after he sort of broke with ISIS.

00:36:40.000 It is worth noting here that Tom Barrick, the ambassador in Turkey, is extraordinarily pro-Turkey.

00:36:47.000 He is also extraordinarily pro-Shara.

00:36:50.000 And so, in the words that come out of Tom Barak, I think we can take with a grain of salt.

00:36:55.000 President Trump lashed out at ISIS for the killing of the Americans and promised retaliation.

00:36:58.000 Here's the president's response.

00:37:01.000 So we mourn the loss of three great patriots in Syria.

00:37:07.000 You know how it happened.

00:37:11.000 We also have three wounded that seem to be doing pretty well.

00:37:15.000 So we mourn the loss.

00:37:16.000 These are great, three great people.

00:37:19.000 And it's just a terrible thing.

00:37:22.000 Syria, by the way, was fighting along with us.

00:37:24.000 The president, the new president of Syria, is, as they told me, and I'm not surprised, he's devastated by what happened.

00:37:33.000 This was an ISIS attack on us and Syria.

00:37:38.000 And again, we mourn the loss and we pray for them and their parents and their loved ones.

00:37:45.000 Very, very sad.

00:37:46.000 Mr. President will have U.S. retaliate against ISIS.

00:37:50.000 Yeah, we will.

00:37:51.000 And we'll go ahead and attack again.

00:37:55.000 You're going to be so serious.

00:37:56.000 And just a few of these.

00:37:58.000 We will retaliate.

00:37:59.000 Thank you very much.

00:38:02.000 Okay, so it'll be interesting to see what happens from here.

00:38:05.000 Alrighty, meanwhile, horrible story out of Los Angeles.

00:38:09.000 Director Rob Reiner, who, of course, is incredibly famous for a wide variety of terrific movies, ranging from The Princess Bride to When Harry Met Sally to This is Spinal Tap, Misery, A Few Good Men.

00:38:17.000 He had a kind of a historic run in the late 80s, early 90s.

00:38:21.000 He's also the son of Karl Reiner, one of the great Hollywood comedians.

00:38:25.000 He was found dead in his home with his wife, Michelle Singer, of what police are calling a homicide, a truly horrifying story.

00:38:33.000 Truly, truly terrible.

00:38:34.000 He was 78.

00:38:35.000 She was 68.

00:38:37.000 According to the family spokesperson, it is with profound sorrow we announced the tragic passing of Michelle and Rob Reiner.

00:38:42.000 We're heartbroken by the sudden loss.

00:38:43.000 We asked for privacy during this unbelievably difficult time.

00:38:47.000 Apparently, the police are conducting a death investigation.

00:38:51.000 There is suspicion that a family member is involved.

00:38:57.000 Obviously, when you're talking about the death of anyone, the murder of anyone who is a fellow American, politics go by the wayside, and they always should.

00:39:07.000 They really, really should.

00:39:10.000 Rob Reiner may have disagreed with conservatives on politics, but who cares?

00:39:14.000 What difference does that make?

00:39:15.000 It's a horrifying tragedy.

00:39:17.000 It's truly terrible.

00:39:19.000 A family member is being held for questioning.

00:39:24.000 Again, they were apparently murdered according to TMZ.

00:39:27.000 They were found dead from knife wounds.

00:39:29.000 Detectives are treating the incident as a double homicide.

00:39:32.000 Investigators are, in fact, quizzing an unnamed family member.

00:39:37.000 The couple's daughter lives across the street and made the discovery, which is just awful.

00:39:42.000 The Reiners had a son, Nick, 30 to a screenwriter, who has apparently struggled with drug addiction and bouts of homelessness as well.

00:39:53.000 Truly awful stuff.

00:39:56.000 And our prayers go out to the Reiner family.

00:39:59.000 Just, ugh, just what a horrifying, what a horrifying end to a truly great artist.

00:40:04.000 We'll get some more on this in a moment.

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00:40:43.000 And meanwhile, in domestic political news, the debate goes on with regard to Obamacare and extensions of Democratic subsidies.

00:40:54.000 On Friday, House Republicans unveiled a health care bill that they will bring to a vote next week, including items that are broadly popular in the party, like cost-sharing reductions and reforms to the pharmacy benefit manager industry.

00:41:05.000 It does not include extension of those Obamacare subsidies that Joe Biden put into place.

00:41:10.000 He put these gigantic extensions of Obamacare subsidies into place during the late stages of the pandemic, and then he left them in place and now they are set to expire.

00:41:19.000 And then Democrats are blaming Republicans for the fact that Joe Biden decided to create this massive new subsidy scheme that sunsets.

00:41:27.000 House GOP leaders will allow an amendment vote on extending those Obama subsidies, according to a GOP leadership aide.

00:41:34.000 That is a concession to moderates who'd been calling to go on the record on the matter.

00:41:38.000 Unclear what that amendment is going to look like.

00:41:40.000 A House Republican leadership ed said, we expect there will be an amendment that is being worked on.

00:41:44.000 So the process will allow for that amendment.

00:41:47.000 So this could be the House allowing for the possibility of an expanded Obamacare subsidy at the same time as there are changes to things like cost-sharing reductions and reforms to that pharmacy benefit manager industry, which adds some cost between the middlemen.

00:42:04.000 Bill Cassidy, senator from Louisiana, on Sunday, expressed some cautious optimism that there would be a compromise to extend those Obamacare subsidies for a select group of Americans before the subsidies expire at the end of the year.

00:42:15.000 Senator Cassidy appeared on CBS News' Face the Nation to discuss the possibility of a deal.

00:42:21.000 We've got to do something for affordability for the people in the exchanges.

00:42:25.000 And I will say that the only thing that Democrats would accept was something that would decrease the premiums.

00:42:30.000 But if a family has a $6,000 out-of-pocket before they get into the strength of the insurance plan, then frankly, the policy is catastrophic.

00:42:40.000 It brings profit to the insurance company, but not benefit to the patient.

00:42:45.000 So I would argue that it actually is, there has to be a meeting of the minds between Democrats and Republicans.

00:42:52.000 Let's acknowledge you've got to put cash in the patient's pocket to pay the out-of-pocket.

00:42:58.000 I would be willing to do a short-term extension of the premium tax credits for those people with higher premiums if they will concede that we've got to do something for the $6,000 out-of-pocket.

00:43:10.000 I think there's a deal to be had here.

00:43:12.000 We need to push for that deal.

00:43:15.000 So why exactly is that deal not happening?

00:43:17.000 Republicans are willing to make a compromise on the Obamacare subsidies, at least temporarily, in exchange for, for example, some health savings account to be set up that will eventually, we would hope, replace those Obamacare subsidies.

00:43:28.000 Why isn't a deal happening?

00:43:29.000 Cassidy said the Democrats are holding it up.

00:43:33.000 Do you need more White House help on this?

00:43:35.000 And sir, you're running out of time here.

00:43:37.000 Do you really think you can get this done before January 1st?

00:43:42.000 Our problem is not with Republicans.

00:43:44.000 Our problem has been with Democrats.

00:43:46.000 But of course, they may say that about us.

00:43:48.000 So what I am kind of searching for is a deal in which both have their concerns addressed.

00:43:54.000 If you do that and you put this in place, you really have until the end of like March to get it done because with these kind of accounts that people have money in, they just save the receipts, they submit them, and they get reimbursed.

00:44:07.000 It happens what we do in my family.

00:44:10.000 We have a flexible spending account.

00:44:12.000 And so we can get this done, and I think we can meet the concerns both about the out-of-pocket, but also about the premium.

00:44:21.000 So what precisely will Republicans get in this deal?

00:44:23.000 Presumably, Cassidy said there have to be some terms that cut out the amount of Obamacare fraud, which is pretty significant.

00:44:30.000 Do you think that the Republicans, the ones that you talked to, would go for anything that does extend the premium help?

00:44:42.000 It has to have reforms to cut out the fraud.

00:44:45.000 There's an estimated billions of dollars in fraud the way the current system is currently constructed.

00:44:51.000 But if you address the fraud and particularly you address the fact that the premiums being pushed, should be the policies being pushed, have $6,000 deductibles.

00:45:00.000 Again, it's more about profit for the insurance company than protection for the patient.

00:45:04.000 If we do that, I think there could be interest in a short-term extension.

00:45:08.000 I think that could be the deal.

00:45:11.000 And so it'll be interesting to see whether that indeed happens.

00:45:14.000 What Cassidy is suggesting is probably the most politically palatable thing for Republicans if they don't wish to lose a bunch of purple swing state seats in the midterm elections if the Obamacare subsidies were to expire and those prices were to rise and Democrats threw that at Republicans.

00:45:27.000 It'd be very difficult for Republicans in purple states to be able to defend themselves.

00:45:30.000 And so, of course, political considerations have come to sort of center stage in all of this.

00:45:34.000 Meanwhile, a lot of controversy remains over the Trump tariffs.

00:45:38.000 The Trump administration is interested in finalizing tariff payments.

00:45:43.000 According to Politico, the Trump administration is racing to deposit the money it has raised from tariffs into the U.S. Treasury, a tactic that could make it harder for companies to get refunds for duties the Supreme Court may strike down in the coming months.

00:45:54.000 So what they're trying to do is prevent, if the Supreme Court were to strike down these tariffs retroactively, they're trying to prevent companies from clawing back the amount that they paid to the federal government in tariffs.

00:46:05.000 That has triggered a flurry of lawsuits in recent weeks with companies ranging from Costco to the canned tuna seller bumblebee looking to preserve access to potential refunds for tens of billions of dollars worth of tariff fees and it foreshadows the messy legal battles likely to play out if the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs.

00:46:21.000 Apparently, Trump's Customs and Border Protection Agency is denying requests to delay finalizing tariff payments and transferring the funds to Treasury.

00:46:28.000 In fact, they are even fast-tracking the process.

00:46:30.000 They suspect the Supreme Court might strike it down, and they are trying to grab as much tariff revenue as humanly possible.

00:46:36.000 Typically, Customs and Border Protection grants a 314-day window after goods enter the U.S. to liquidate the tariffs and send money to the Treasury Department.

00:46:45.000 Once that happens, importers can't challenge the tariff payment through routine customs correction.

00:46:49.000 Instead, they have to go through a complex formal protest process and litigation.

00:46:53.000 And apparently, the Trump administration is now trying to speed that up.

00:46:59.000 So the Trump administration is very concerned the Supreme Court is going to strike down those tariffs.

00:47:03.000 Kevin Hassett, chair of the National Council of Economic Advisors, who is now being considered for the chair of the Federal Reserve, he says that throwing out the tariffs would create a serious economic problem.

00:47:15.000 The future of these tariffs, though, does hang in the balance right now, and the Supreme Court ultimately has to make the decision on this.

00:47:21.000 If you had the opportunity to have the justices consider a version of this from your perspective, what is it that you would say to them?

00:47:30.000 And how important is it that we keep these tariffs?

00:47:33.000 The tariffs have been working, and they've been really good for the American people.

00:47:37.000 We've got about 4% growth right now.

00:47:39.000 We've got inflation going down, and we've got the biggest reduction in a year-over-year deficit that you've ever seen.

00:47:47.000 And if they were to throw the tariffs out, then they could create a really serious economic problem.

00:47:54.000 Now, I want you to know that we study all eventualities of this White House.

00:47:59.000 People shouldn't panic if they throw these things out, but they create a real problem because a lot of the tariff revenue has to be refunded to people, potentially, and that's very disruptive.

00:48:07.000 And the law says that we're allowed to regulate trade, but it doesn't use the word tariff.

00:48:11.000 And that's what the left is, you know, they're hanging everything on that one thing.

00:48:17.000 Well, it's not the left.

00:48:18.000 I mean, let's be fair about this.

00:48:19.000 The law does not say that the executive branch of the government is allowed to quote unquote regulate trade.

00:48:22.000 Just as a general rule, that power belongs to Congress.

00:48:25.000 It's in the legislative power.

00:48:27.000 And when it comes to national emergencies, then there's the possibility of doing something on an emergency basis.

00:48:33.000 But again, the authority being used to do these widespread tariffs on everything up to and including penguins in the Solomon Islands, that, of course, is a very shoddy legal case.

00:48:41.000 I've been pointing that out since literally day one.

00:48:44.000 Now, what will be the knock-on effects?

00:48:46.000 Well, yeah, I mean, there will be some real problems as far as people trying to claw back the money that they paid to the federal government, especially because people already bought the products.

00:48:53.000 So presumably the company then gets the payment for the product, and then they claw back the tax that they paid to the U.S. government.

00:49:01.000 There is also the problem of what happens going forward to these tariff rates.

00:49:06.000 Does the Trump administration go through another round of chaotic ministrations in an attempt to revive those tariffs through some sort of other executive authority?

00:49:15.000 Then you get another set of lawsuits.

00:49:17.000 As far as the sort of rosy view of tariffs, neither the rosy view nor the catastrophic view of tariffs has actually come to pass.

00:49:24.000 Some of that is because of uncertainty about the implementation of tariffs in the first place, according to the Wall Street Journal, analyzing various factors as to what would happen in the aftermath of the tariffs.

00:49:34.000 When it comes to employment, employment is the highest in four years.

00:49:39.000 Some of that is probably due to the tariffs.

00:49:41.000 Manufacturers have not been gaining jobs.

00:49:44.000 However, the tariffs have not skyrocketed inflation.

00:49:49.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, both Trump and economists largely missed the mark on inflation.

00:49:54.000 Tariffs swiftly hit Americans' wallets as major retailers from Macy's to Best Buy raised prices in response to the duties.

00:50:00.000 But the worst inflation fears have not yet come to pass because tariffs touch a narrow band of consumer prices.

00:50:06.000 Housing and gasoline have helped keep overall inflation in check.

00:50:09.000 Believe it or not, housing has actually been declining in pricing over the course of the last year.

00:50:12.000 So has gasoline.

00:50:14.000 Also, a lot of people have not actually lowered their prices in expectation that President Trump's going to shift his tariff policy because it's been up and down and all around.

00:50:21.000 As far as tariff revenue, yes, the federal government has raised extraordinary tariff revenue, almost $200 billion in net customs duties collected on U.S. imports.

00:50:30.000 Is that going to replace the income tax?

00:50:31.000 Not even remotely close.

00:50:33.000 However, as far as economic growth, in spite of the tariffs, economic growth has been really, really high.

00:50:39.000 The third quarter GDP estimate is almost 4%, which is really, really high.

00:50:43.000 And again, a huge amount of that is because so much of our investment is going into tech industries that really are not being affected by the tariffs in the same way.

00:50:52.000 All the investment is going into AI, for example, AI development.

00:50:56.000 Well, that's not affected by tariffs in remotely the same way.

00:50:59.000 U.S. manufacturing activity has actually continued to contract.

00:51:02.000 So contra, the White House, tariffs have not revived American manufacturing.

00:51:07.000 Instead, U.S. factory activity has contracted for nine straight months.

00:51:13.000 And as far as the trade balance, the trade balance basically looks kind of the same as it did before the tariffs.

00:51:19.000 There was an immediate skyrocket, actually, of imports as people tried to beat the tariffs.

00:51:24.000 And then what we've seen is that exports and imports have kind of remained similar to where they were before.

00:51:30.000 So either the tariffs aren't big enough or they haven't been promoted heavily enough or they haven't been implemented strictly enough.

00:51:36.000 And so you're kind of getting a mixed bag with regard to tariffs.

00:51:39.000 But will there be some chaos in the economy if the tariffs are struck down by the Supreme Court, which, by the way, I think will happen?

00:51:46.000 I mean, sure, there will be some chaos.

00:51:48.000 Will it be solved?

00:51:49.000 Yes, it will be.

00:51:51.000 And again, I think there's a case to be made that if the tariffs go away, you're going to get a boom economy.

00:51:55.000 You already have an economy that is basically on the verge of booming if people had any level of predictability as to what happens next.

00:52:02.000 Kevin Hassett says we're on the verge of perhaps the greatest economy in American history.

00:52:08.000 If you had a crystal ball and you looked to the very end of President Trump's second term in office, where would you expect to see this economy?

00:52:18.000 I think that we're already right on the cusp of having the greatest economy that the U.S. has ever seen.

00:52:24.000 I think that Trump policies are about as good as it gets.

00:52:27.000 I think that there's never been a time in American history where policy was more perched to make growth really, really high.

00:52:33.000 And the fact that that's happening precisely when we're getting this big positive supply shock from artificial intelligence means that you could easily have 4% or 5% growth for the entire Trump term, which would be obviously the best four years in history, really.

00:52:48.000 And so I think that that's my core expectation.

00:52:52.000 And I think that this will go down in history as a golden age.

00:52:56.000 Now, you know, his mouth to God's ears.

00:52:58.000 Obviously, a booming economy would be fantastic for the country and also fantastic for the Republican Party.

00:53:03.000 Okay, meanwhile, on Ukraine, the pressure has been almost universally on Ukraine from the United States to end the war, despite the fact that, again, it's really about the security guarantees that the West hands to Ukraine as to whether Ukraine even has the capacity to make a move like that.

00:53:18.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, President Trump's top envoys held five hours of talk with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky in Berlin on Sunday.

00:53:25.000 Washington hailed progress as the administration steps up more pressure on Ukraine to seal a peace deal with Russia by year end.

00:53:31.000 Now, again, what is Russia willing to give up?

00:53:34.000 I'm just going to keep asking that question until we get any sort of answer at all.

00:53:38.000 Is there an answer?

00:53:39.000 What is the sacrifice Russia is making? 0.76

00:53:42.000 Anyone?

00:53:43.000 Bueller?

00:53:44.000 Bueller?

00:53:47.000 Ukraine is balking at Washington's call to withdraw its forces from areas that Kyiv's forces still hold.

00:53:52.000 So the call is for Ukraine to surrender territory that Russia hasn't even won.

00:53:56.000 European and Ukrainian officials are pushing for some clarity on what the U.S. would do if Russia were to break a peace deal and attack Ukraine.

00:54:03.000 Well, yeah, that would be the biggest question considering that we did this routine in 2014 under Barack Obama.

00:54:09.000 And then Russia walked right back in in 2022 under Joe Biden.

00:54:14.000 After Sunday's talks ended in the late evening, the Trump administration's Russia envoy, Steve Woodko, said on X that the two sides held in-depth discussions on the peace plan.

00:54:22.000 He said a lot of progress was made.

00:54:23.000 They will meet again tomorrow Morning.

00:54:26.000 One person briefed on Sunday's talks described them as difficult, saying the U.S. side appeared unwilling to compromise on its peace proposal draft.

00:54:34.000 I think what's going to end up happening here is the Europeans are simply going to have to radically accelerate their support for Ukraine because the Trump administration looks ready to walk away.

00:54:42.000 I think that's a terrible move.

00:54:43.000 I think that incentivizing the Russians to be more aggressive, not only in the region, but globally, is a huge mistake.

00:54:50.000 All this nonsense about Russia being a potential ally to the United States is just that.

00:54:54.000 It is nonsense.

00:54:56.000 If you read the speeches that Vladimir Putin has made in Russian to his own people, if you read the writings of Alexander Dugin, called Putin's brain by many, it is very clear that his vision for the future of Eastern Europe and for conflict with the United States is a dark vision. 0.97

00:55:12.000 And pretending that appeasing Vladimir Putin is somehow going to amount to some sort of lasting peace with Vladimir Putin, that's a fool's errand. 0.95

00:55:21.000 It really is. 0.98

00:55:21.000 It was a fool's errand when Obama was trying it. 0.98

00:55:24.000 It was a fool's errand when Joe Biden was trying it. 0.99

00:55:27.000 And it's a fool's errand no matter who tries it, because Vladimir Putin has not changed, not one iota. 0.98

00:55:31.000 His goals are exactly the same as they were when he took power.

00:55:35.000 According to Axios, the proposal that is currently being made is a demilitarized zone with national security advisors of Ukraine, Germany, France, and the UK.

00:55:51.000 Unclear exactly what that would trigger if Russia walked over that border.

00:55:55.000 Typically, international security forces have totally failed.

00:55:58.000 As soon as there's a major threat, countries simply withdraw their forces, and then the threatening force walks through.

00:56:05.000 A U.S. official says there might be three separate agreements on peace: security guarantees, and reconstruction.

00:56:11.000 Apparently, the negotiations over economic and reconstruction are going well, well, of course, because that's just a question of money.

00:56:18.000 Several European leaders have been counseling Zelensky.

00:56:21.000 He doesn't need to rush into a deal, especially one that forces him to cede territory Ukraine hasn't actually lost.

00:56:26.000 And by the way, they're negotiating against themselves.

00:56:28.000 Russia has not signaled that it accepts the deal.

00:56:31.000 Turns out that negotiating against yourself is a pretty bad way to negotiate as a general rule.

00:56:35.000 Alrighty, coming up, we'll jump into the mailbag as the show continues.

00:56:39.000 Remember, in order to watch, you do have to be a member.

00:56:42.000 If you're not a member, become a member.

00:56:43.000 Use Coach Shapiro.

00:56:44.000 Check out for two months free on all annual plans.

00:56:45.000 Click that link in the description and join us.

00:56:50.000 Oh, this is an illusion.

00:56:52.000 An echo of a voice that has died.

00:56:56.000 And soon that echo will cease.

00:57:08.000 They say that Merlin is mad.

00:57:16.000 They say he was a king and david, the son of a princess of lost Atlantis.

00:57:23.000 They say the future and the past are known to him.

00:57:28.000 The fire and the wind tell him their secrets.

00:57:32.000 The magic of the hillfolk and druids come forth at his easy command.

00:57:38.000 They say he slew hundreds.

00:57:42.000 Hundreds, do you hear?

00:57:43.000 That the world burned and trembled at his wrath.

00:57:50.000 The Merlin died long before you and I were born.

00:57:55.000 Merlin Emirus has returned to the land of the living.

00:58:01.000 Vortigern is gone.

00:58:03.000 Rum is gone.

00:58:05.000 The Saxon is here. 0.76

00:58:08.000 Saxon Hengist has assembled the greatest war host ever seen in the island of the mighty. 0.84

00:58:12.000 And before the summer is through, he means to take the throne.

00:58:17.000 And he will have it.

00:58:19.000 If we are too busy squabbling amongst ourselves to take up arms against him, here is your hope.

00:58:25.000 A king will arise to hold all Britain in his hand.

00:58:29.000 A high king who would be the wonder of the world.

00:58:33.000 You to a future of peace.

00:58:40.000 There'll be no peace in these lands till we are all dust.

00:58:43.000 Men of the island of the mighty, you stand together.

00:58:49.000 You stand as Britons.

00:58:52.000 You stand as one.

00:58:56.000 Great darkness is falling upon this land.

00:59:00.000 These brothers are our only hope to stand against it.

00:59:04.000 Not our only hope.

00:59:07.000 Esay Merthyn slew 70 men with his own hands.

00:59:11.000 And Cathay, he slew 500.

00:59:16.000 No man is capable of such a thing.

The Ben Shapiro Show - December 15, 2025

MASSACRE: 15 Plus Killed in Islamist Hanukkah Attack in Australia

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