The Ben Shapiro Show - My Journey To Ukraine and My Interview With Zelensky

00:00:00.000 Well, folks, a big question I've been getting since we released the trailer for my interview with President Vladimir Zelensky of Ukraine is, why go to a nation under fire?

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00:00:26.000 So, last night, Vladimir Putin's Russia blanketed Ukraine with missiles and drones in what was perhaps the largest-scale air attack on the country since 2022.

00:00:35.000 One missile apparently struck an apartment building in Kiev and killed nine people and wounded another 63. This, of course, is a war zone.

00:00:43.000 A little bit earlier yesterday, the Trump administration rolled out its proposed outline for a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine.

00:00:49.000 This was being negotiated in London.

00:00:51.000 It's a peace deal under which Ukraine would have been forced to accept Russian annexation of Crimea, that's the very southern portion of Ukraine that is on the Black Sea, as well as control of eastern Ukraine.

00:01:02.000 Russia is currently in control of large swaths of eastern Ukraine and has been since 2014.

00:01:07.000 It would have removed NATO membership from the table for Ukraine.

00:01:10.000 Ukraine obviously is interested in joining NATO because that would mean that an attack on a NATO member would allow for Article 5 invocation, meaning other countries would have to come to Ukraine's defense.

00:01:18.000 The deal would prevent Ukraine from becoming a NATO member.

00:01:21.000 It would have provided little or nothing in the way of security guarantees for Ukraine.

00:01:25.000 So the proposed Trump deal did not obligate the United States to come to Ukraine's defense or even allow for the EU's defense of Ukraine.

00:01:33.000 Maybe they could have, maybe they couldn't have, but that was unclear.

00:01:35.000 And it also would have full-scale ended sanctions on Russia.

00:01:38.000 So clearly this peace deal gave Russia a bunch of things that Russia was looking for if it had been accepted by Ukraine.

00:01:44.000 Russia has not accepted a peace arrangement.

00:01:47.000 You should be clear about this.

00:01:49.000 Essentially, the proposal that was published was the United States, Europe, and maybe Ukraine kind of negotiating against themselves because there's no one else at the table right now.

00:01:57.000 Now, Zelensky rejected handing over Crimea legally because that would be making a major legal concession without actually getting anything from Russia in return.

00:02:05.000 If you preemptively say Crimea is now part of Russia, you've now said it, and Zelensky doesn't want to do that.

00:02:10.000 He has accepted the Trump proposal for a 30-day ceasefire without any preconditions.

00:02:15.000 It's been true for weeks.

00:02:16.000 Vladimir Putin has not.

00:02:17.000 Not for one second.

00:02:18.000 Which is why last night the Russian missiles were falling on Kiev.

00:02:22.000 They're also falling on Lviv, which is in the western part of the country.

00:02:24.000 It was a bad night in Ukraine.

00:02:27.000 Now Putin, again, has at no point actually given any sign that he truly wants the war to end.

00:02:32.000 If you want the war to end, the question is, will Zelensky accept an end to the war?

00:02:36.000 And will Putin accept an end to the war?

00:02:37.000 Zelensky has said he will.

00:02:38.000 Putin... Well, I'm going to echo something Secretary Rubio said, 0.70

00:03:03.000 which is luck.

00:03:04.000 We've issued a very explicit proposal to both the Russians and the Ukrainians, and it's time for them to either say yes or for the United States to walk away from this process.

00:03:14.000 We've engaged in an extraordinary amount of diplomacy, of on-the-ground work.

00:03:18.000 We've really tried to understand things from the perspective of both the Ukrainians and the Russians.

00:03:23.000 What do Ukrainians care the most about? 1.00

00:03:25.000 What do the Russians care the most about? 0.97

00:03:26.000 And I think that we've put together a very fair proposal.

00:03:29.000 Okay, well, whether the proposal is fair or not, if Russia refuses to accept the deal...

00:03:34.000 And then the United States walks away.

00:03:36.000 Russia is the party that actually benefits from that.

00:03:39.000 The Trump administration's pressure right now has been almost solely relegated to Ukraine at this point.

00:03:43.000 That's just the reality.

00:03:44.000 President Trump unleashed a post on Truth Social yesterday attacking Vladimir Zelensky and blaming him for the continuation of the war.

00:03:50.000 He stated, quote, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky is boasting on the front page of the Wall Street Journal that Ukraine will not legally recognize the occupation of Crimea.

00:03:58.000 There's nothing to talk about here.

00:03:59.000 This statement says President Trump is very harmful to the peace negotiations with Russia and that Crimea was lost years ago under the auspices of President Barack Hussein Obama and is not even a point of discussion.

00:04:10.000 Nobody's asking Zelensky to recognize Crimea as Russian territory, but if he wants Crimea, why didn't they fight for it 11 years ago when it was handed over to Russia without a shot being fired?

00:04:17.000 Well, if that's true...

00:04:18.000 And nobody's asking for Zelensky to actually recognize Crimea as Russian territory.

00:04:21.000 What's the discussion that's happening?

00:04:23.000 President Trump continues, the area also houses for many years before the Obama handover major Russian submarine bases.

00:04:28.000 It's inflammatory statements like Zelensky's that make it so difficult to settle this war.

00:04:32.000 He has nothing to boast about.

00:04:33.000 The situation for Ukraine is dire.

00:04:35.000 We can have peace or he can fight for another three years before losing the whole country.

00:04:39.000 I have nothing to do with Russia but have much to do with wanting to save on average.

00:04:42.000 5,000 Russian and Ukrainian soldiers a week who are dying for no reason whatsoever.

00:04:46.000 The statement made by Zelensky today will do nothing but prolong the killing field and nobody wants that.

00:04:50.000 We're very close to a deal, but the man with no cards to play should now finally get it done.

00:04:53.000 I look forward to being able to help Ukraine and Russia get out of this complete and total mess. 1.00

00:04:57.000 Again, this is President Trump saying this.

00:04:58.000 That would have never started if I were president.

00:05:01.000 Unquote. Now listen, President Trump's frustration is clear and understandable.

00:05:05.000 But let's be also clear about this.

00:05:07.000 For this conflict to end, Russia has to come to the table.

00:05:11.000 Why is the question what Ukraine is willing to do when the real question here is why Russian aggression has not stopped for a single moment for three years?

00:05:20.000 The American people, obviously, we need to understand just why it is important for Ukraine not to collapse amidst the escalation of Russia's invasion.

00:05:28.000 So, with the Russia-Ukraine war now in year number three, with tens of thousands of dead on each side and hundreds of thousands wounded, probably 50,000 dead on the Ukrainian side, maybe 200,000 dead.

00:05:38.000 On the Russian side, with eastern Ukraine and Crimea currently in Russian hands, and with the Trump administration obviously trying to end the war through negotiation, we felt that now is a vital time to actually travel to Ukraine to discuss this crisis with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky.

00:05:52.000 The American people have a lot of questions, and they have a right to know why they should care about this conflict in a faraway place and to have their questions answered on matters ranging from how their tax dollars are being spent to the treatment of Christians in Ukraine.

00:06:03.000 From the nature of Russia's aspirations in Ukraine to the Ukrainian desire to remain free of Russian domination.

00:06:08.000 So, the trip into Ukraine wasn't exactly easy.

00:06:11.000 It's, of course, a war zone.

00:06:13.000 First, we traveled some 12 hours from Florida to Krakow, that's Poland, and then we took a 10-hour car ride with security from Poland to Kiev.

00:06:20.000 The border crossing was pretty much deserted.

00:06:22.000 Not a lot of people are trying to get into Ukraine at this point in time.

00:06:25.000 The country itself, it's a beautiful country.

00:06:27.000 The breadbasket of the continent, western Ukraine, which is what you drive through to get to Kiev.

00:06:31.000 Is it rolling farmland dotted with forest?

00:06:34.000 My great-great-grandparents came originally from this general region, Belarus, Poland, Ukraine.

00:06:38.000 I tried to see it through their eyes as we were driving.

00:06:40.000 What it must have been like 150 years ago, before the carnage of the Ukrainian Holodomar, which is the Stalin-created genocidal starvation campaign against Ukrainian farmers and their families, and against those who oppose the evil of Soviet collectivization.

00:06:53.000 And what it was like before the Nazi invasion in 1941 and the mass slaughter of Jews with roving bands of SS mowing down tens of thousands of Jews over open pits in Babi Yar, shipping Jews via train to death camps all over Europe.

00:07:05.000 Timothy Snyder, historian and author of a book called Bloodlands, Europe Between Hitler and Stalin, writes, quote, During the years that both Stalin and Hitler were in power, more people were killed in Ukraine than anywhere else in the bloodlands or in Europe or in the world.

00:07:17.000 For both Hitler and Stalin, Ukraine was more than a source of food.

00:07:20.000 It was the place that would enable them to break the rules of traditional economics, rescue their countries from poverty and isolation, and remake the continent in their own image.

00:07:28.000 If you know history, the voices of all of our brother's blood cries out from the ground of Ukraine. 0.94

00:07:33.000 And the history of Ukraine's suffering doesn't stop with World War II.

00:07:37.000 After the war, the Soviet Union again was in control of Ukraine.

00:07:40.000 Its history was then steamrolled and homogenized to fit Soviet presumptions.

00:07:44.000 After the Cold War, after the Soviet Union fell, Ukraine broke free.

00:07:48.000 It became independent.

00:07:49.000 It gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees from the West.

00:07:53.000 Didn't go well for Ukraine, obviously.

00:07:55.000 Torn between the attraction of joining the post-Soviet West and Russian pressure from the East, the country was governed by a series of corruption-ridden governments, culminating in the victory of Viktor Yanukovych, whose pro-Russian swing led to the so-called Maidan Revolution of 2014.

00:08:08.000 Yanukovych was ousted, Vladimir Putin, dictator of Russia, seeing Ukraine slipping out of his grasp.

00:08:13.000 Then launched invasions of the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine, as well as Crimea.

00:08:17.000 Both of those were largely Russian-speaking areas that favored a closer relationship with Russia, but they didn't actually want to be fully ruled by Russia, by the polling data available at the time.

00:08:27.000 Instead, Putin brought in what were called little green men, who he said were sort of domestic insurgents, they were actually Russian soldiers, to take over those areas.

00:08:34.000 Citizens of those areas were brought under Russian control.

00:08:37.000 And then came 2022.

00:08:39.000 Sensing weakness from the American-led North Atlantic Treaty Organization in the aftermath of Joe Biden's surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban, Putin launched a full-scale invasion of the rest of Ukraine.

00:08:48.000 When the war began, few expected Ukraine to survive.

00:08:51.000 Indeed, the first Russian push into Ukraine came within 10 or 12 kilometers of Akiv, the capital city, which is located on both sides of the Dnieper River.

00:09:00.000 Actually, Vladimir Zelensky was made offers by the Europeans to flee the country.

00:09:04.000 But Ukraine instead fought back.

00:09:06.000 Their forces actually pushed the Russians back toward the east and toward the south.

00:09:10.000 After three years of war, that is where the lines remain.

00:09:13.000 Carnage continues in Kharkiv and Zaporizhia.

00:09:16.000 Bombs continue to fall.

00:09:17.000 Drones continue to fly, particularly last night.

00:09:19.000 The Russian government since 2014, in an effort to russify Ukrainian children, has abducted tens of thousands of kids from eastern Ukraine and Crimea back into Ukraine.

00:09:28.000 As the New York Times reported in 2023, quote, Russian officials have made it clear their goal is to replace any childhood attachment to home with a love for Russia.

00:09:36.000 Hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers and contractors have died, according to the BBC.

00:09:40.000 Around 50,000 Ukrainians have been killed, according to Zelensky's government.

00:09:43.000 As of February, the numbers are probably higher.

00:09:45.000 President Trump's entry into office provided the possibility of something new.

00:09:49.000 Pledging to end the war, the Trump administration insisted on negotiations, and to that end, put pressure on both Zelensky and Vladimir Putin to come to the table.

00:09:56.000 After a fraught conversation with President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance in the Oval Office, Zelensky has agreed to an unconditional 30-day ceasefire.

00:10:04.000 Putin has agreed to nothing.

00:10:06.000 The United States, under Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, continues to advocate for Ukrainian concessions, ranging again from recognition of Russian territorial annexation to abandonment of intent to join NATO.

00:10:16.000 Putin, for his part, has mouthed words of interest but has shown little willingness to make any real concessions at all.

00:10:22.000 That is where things stood as we traveled into Ukraine.

00:10:25.000 We have more of this in a moment.

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00:12:21.000 It got dark as we were driving.

00:12:23.000 As we neared the city, an app on our phones sounded a drone alert in Kiev.

00:12:27.000 Drone warfare has become one of the most highly publicized aspects of the war in Ukraine.

00:12:31.000 Ukrainian forces, at a material disadvantage in the early days of the war, engaged in technological creativity to counter Russian advances.

00:12:37.000 Russia then responded by building new drones with Chinese help, as well as by importing drones from Iran.

00:12:42.000 By the time we reached Kiev, the drone sirens had stopped.

00:12:46.000 After a very short night in the center of Kiev...

00:12:48.000 We visited the site of the Babinyar massacre, which is just across the street from a television tower struck by a Russian missile in the early days of the war.

00:12:55.000 We visited a blown-out building, hit multiple times in a variety of Russian attacks.

00:12:58.000 We visited a memorial to the victims of the Halatomar.

00:13:01.000 The city is beautiful, but it obviously feels pretty empty.

00:13:05.000 Approximately 7 million Ukrainians have left the country during the war.

00:13:08.000 That's out of a total population of 44 million or so in 2021.

00:13:12.000 I attended a meeting of the All-Ukrainian Council of Churches and Religious Organizations with representatives of 15 different religious sects attending to discuss religious freedom and traditional values with Zelensky.

00:13:22.000 A member of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine was joined by a member of the Catholic Church, for example, to ask for a ministry of family to foster higher birth rates and support more kids in Ukraine.

00:13:29.000 Other members of the council asked President Zelensky.

00:13:32.000 And then, finally, it was time to sit down with President Zelensky.

00:13:38.000 President Zelensky looks weary, but upbeat.

00:13:40.000 He is, of course, very camera-friendly, given his history as a TV star.

00:13:46.000 We're late in 1011 centuries before the Tsardom of Russia.

00:13:50.000 Here then is part one of our interview with President Vladimir Zelensky in Kiev, Ukraine, and perhaps the most crucial moment for the negotiations yet in the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine.

00:14:06.000 President Zelensky, thank you so much for taking the time.

00:14:08.000 I really appreciate it.

00:14:09.000 Thanks so much.

00:14:10.000 Thanks for coming, Ben.

00:14:11.000 So I want to start by asking you about the meeting that you had in the Oval Office with the President and the Vice President.

00:14:16.000 Almost a couple of months ago, obviously things went sideways.

00:14:19.000 How do you feel that you could have handled things better with the president and vice president?

00:14:25.000 After this meeting, our teams had plenty of meetings.

00:14:32.000 Well, not enough of meetings to put an end to this war, but still they were...

00:14:37.000 Positive meetings.

00:14:39.000 There were meetings that were fruitful.

00:14:41.000 And our teams have agreed that everyone will support the complete ceasefire mode.

00:14:50.000 And that was a meeting in Saudi Arabia.

00:14:52.000 Then there was another meeting.

00:14:53.000 Then it was a meeting in France.

00:14:55.000 Tomorrow, by the way, there will be a meeting in London.

00:15:00.000 So, as you can see, what's important to us is the teams of Ukraine.

00:15:04.000 And the United States, plus our European colleagues, that is, our team has started to work together with the United States, and I can see some positive things about this.

00:15:15.000 I'm grateful to this, to all the partners, and I'm grateful to President Trump for this, as well as to Keir Starmer and to Emmanuel Macron, and to all the leaders who constantly support this very beginning, the complete ceasefire.

00:15:30.000 It's the beginning of the path towards the And that is not yet ready to put an end to this war. 0.89

00:15:54.000 And we hope...

00:15:57.000 On the strengths of the United States, on the strengths in terms of the sanctions, on the experience of the United States, and the influence that the United States has on Russia.

00:16:07.000 So for Russia to agree to put an end to this war, it depends on them.

00:16:11.000 As for our meeting in the Oval Office, I kept saying that we needed this meeting.

00:16:17.000 We had to talk over a variety of elements.

00:16:20.000 We had different meetings, fruitful and more philosophic meetings, I would say.

00:16:25.000 On different stages of our lives.

00:16:27.000 And the meeting with President Trump as well.

00:16:30.000 So, I think that the meeting in the Oval Office, it did not help Ukraine.

00:16:36.000 It did not help to the United States.

00:16:41.000 I think we should, you know...

00:16:45.000 When Ukraine and the United States are having the meeting, we should give light to people.

00:16:51.000 We should demonstrate this path that I've already mentioned to a path towards the end of this war.

00:16:57.000 We count on the strategic partnership when we always respected the people of the United States and the choice of the United States and the support coming from the United States.

00:17:07.000 And that is why I think that we will have more fruitful meetings with President Trump.

00:17:14.000 You have to understand, Ukraine, that we are defending against Russia's offense. 0.53

00:17:20.000 And we believe Russia is an enemy. 0.61

00:17:23.000 We believe the United States is a true and real friend.

00:17:27.000 We know that the United States has a position to serve as the mediator in this conflict.

00:17:32.000 That is the choice made by the United States.

00:17:35.000 But we consider the United States as a strong, strategic partner with an influence.

00:17:41.000 and we would really like to have these two strengths that would be used towards Russia so that the force would be towards the Russia because they're the one who is 0.60

00:17:53.000 I highly respect the fact that he's searching for an approach.

00:18:11.000 That's his approach.

00:18:12.000 Somebody might have a different approach, but you shouldn't be saying that Ukraine and Russia started this war.

00:18:20.000 I believe that it's painful for our people to hear, and this is why we respond in this way.

00:18:27.000 We're talking about the dignity of our country.

00:18:29.000 We have demonstrated that we are ready to protect our dignity in any situation.

00:18:35.000 I'm doing that as the president.

00:18:36.000 We have clearly demonstrated that in the beginning of the war.

00:18:39.000 It was the war.

00:18:40.000 It still remains the war.

00:18:42.000 We have only one enemy, Russia and Putin.

00:18:44.000 And that is why even if we're talking a diplomatic environment, everything is related to the Ukraine's dignity.

00:18:51.000 I will always defend it.

00:18:52.000 This is my job.

00:18:53.000 I'm the president.

00:18:54.000 I'm the guarantor of the Constitution of Ukraine.

00:18:57.000 So, Mr. President, there are a lot of questions in the United States about how American funding is spent.

00:19:02.000 So we've spent nearly 200 or allocated nearly $200 billion to the defense of Ukraine.

00:19:06.000 There are lots of questions about where the money is going to pensions, to war profiteering, to corruption.

00:19:14.000 How do you answer those questions?

00:19:15.000 What kind of transparency can you provide to the American people to guarantee that their taxpayer dollars are being used in the best possible way to fight Russia, to defend Ukraine, and to ensure that if the United States wants, wouldn't ought to be possible by the United States of where those dollars are?

00:19:30.000 Yes. Let's go.

00:19:34.000 Yes. Let me start with the end of your question.

00:19:38.000 As for the audit, the United States have to understand.

00:19:42.000 There's the United States inspectors working.

00:19:46.000 There's the inspectors of European countries because they've also allocated the money and we are also grateful to them.

00:19:52.000 Just as to the United States, we highly respect the support and assistance coming from the people of the United States as well as the people of Europe.

00:20:00.000 That is why we have told at once that we are ready to have We don't have any inspections from the very beginning of the war.

00:20:06.000 The inspectors coming from the United States, Europe and our own inspectors, they're working.

00:20:11.000 We have complete reporting counting, absolutely transparent within the Ministry of Defence.

00:20:17.000 There is access to all the figures starting from the very first year of the war.

00:20:21.000 There's always and there's been always an access when we've seen in the very beginning of the war that Russia attempted to undermine the support and assistance coming from the United States.

00:20:32.000 The United States was the main donor, and they wanted to undermine this through fake news, through other tools.

00:20:40.000 That is why we told it once, that we are open.

00:20:42.000 Send the inspectors.

00:20:43.000 And they were inspectors.

00:20:45.000 So as for the audit, we're always ready to any audit.

00:20:48.000 There's nothing to hide.

00:20:50.000 We're absolutely open, transparent.

00:20:52.000 And that is what's happening.

00:20:53.000 There's all the reports available.

00:20:55.000 The second aspect...

00:20:57.000 I never wanted to, you know, well, I just, I was grateful to all the U.S. taxpayers.

00:21:04.000 I understand that the United States have different programs, directions, and that is also related to the weapons support and to the assistance of other countries of the world.

00:21:17.000 I want to be absolutely frank.

00:21:20.000 That's with regards to the audit.

00:21:22.000 I have my own internal audit and I clearly understand how much assistance coming from which country at which moment was provided to Ukraine.

00:21:33.000 I'm not responding poorly to saying that the United States has transferred something around 200 billion.

00:21:41.000 I'm responding to the facts.

00:21:43.000 The United States...

00:21:47.000 We are grateful to the bipartisan support in the Congress because we are grateful to this unity around the fight of Ukraine for the independence and your great assistance and the great contribution of the United States in this, in the defense of our people.

00:22:05.000 I have my own internal audit, and my country is clearly documenting how many assistance was provided.

00:22:13.000 Just for you to know, we had 104, 105 billion US dollars.

00:22:19.000 Most of those money were in the form of weapons.

00:22:25.000 Now, that's the first thing.

00:22:26.000 All of those weapons came.

00:22:28.000 The money were paid.

00:22:31.000 To the transportation of those weapons, Ukrainian companies were not allowed to transport this money.

00:22:38.000 That's why we haven't received, not in the public, not in the private sector, the money for the transportation.

00:22:42.000 There were different assistance programs, the training of Ukrainian soldiers abroad.

00:22:47.000 There's many things.

00:22:48.000 I'm documenting and registering what we have.

00:22:51.000 I understand there could be different calculations, different assistance programs or aid programs, but this is like an audit.

00:23:00.000 Really? You are verifying what was the output, so to say, and we kind of verify what was the input.

00:23:09.000 We verify this because we need to, you know, keep the face in our relations with the key strategic partner.

00:23:16.000 It's very important.

00:23:17.000 It's not that we're arguing that the United States have said that we're giving you 200 and Ukraine is saying, no, it's 100.

00:23:24.000 No, it's not an arguing.

00:23:26.000 It's not a dispute.

00:23:27.000 But it's important that both countries and the taxpayers, they should...

00:23:31.000 No, no, no.

00:23:42.000 I'm responding to what was the input, so to say, how many money came to Ukraine.

00:23:50.000 Primarily, that was for the weapons.

00:23:52.000 They were used on the battlefield.

00:23:53.000 And the audit that I've mentioned clearly documented that whether this weapon was used on the battlefield or in accordance to some of the information been posted on the media.

00:24:04.000 Primarily, that was the Russian narratives that some of the weapons were sent elsewhere or there was some corruption related to this weapon.

00:24:10.000 Something was sold.

00:24:12.000 No. All the audit that took place, not a single time has found any fact of sales.

00:24:19.000 of US weapons to somewhere abroad.

00:24:23.000 So there was no information like that in any of the audits.

00:24:28.000 Then, secondly, the funding, the support, the different social programs.

00:24:33.000 That was different social programs.

00:24:36.000 But the salary that we pay to our soldiers, the pensions that we pay to our pensioners, and we have 11.5 million pensioners.

00:24:46.000 So the salaries and the pensions, these are only paid from the Ukrainian budget.

00:24:51.000 This is only by the Ukrainian money.

00:24:53.000 Not because we didn't need the kind of financial support or the support to the people.

00:25:00.000 There were different aspects, infrastructural aspects, etc.

00:25:03.000 We needed all of that and we are grateful to all that.

00:25:07.000 But the United States have to know that they were not feeding our pensioners.

00:25:14.000 And our soldiers, with regards to the salary or the compensation, surely you've provided the most important aspect, that is the weapons, the weapons we needed to defend.

00:25:25.000 Now, those things are very important.

00:25:27.000 Now, there are special programs or separate programs, and we have the clear figures behind those.

00:25:34.000 When the United States were paying money for the development of a certain direction in the technological kind of development, like in new drones, and there were direct funding either in the private sector that was constructing the

00:25:49.000 drones like that, what the United States have received, well, the exchange of information, the United States without the

00:25:56.000 I'm not saying that war is good.

00:26:02.000 That's horrible.

00:26:03.000 But whenever we're saying what the United States have received, for example...

00:26:08.000 When there were some programs, when the United States had funded the weapons, and they were transferring the Patriots to us, and we are grateful to the United States, first of all, for this.

00:26:20.000 They know that all the air defense systems that we had, different shells, there is artillery shells, even 155 shells could be different, the HIMARS, etc.

00:26:32.000 All the Ukraine have been using. 0.94

00:26:34.000 Ukraine... Provided the reports to the United States and Ukraine has improved many of the elements and specifications.

00:26:43.000 By our engineers, by our people on the ground, they've improved the specifications of the weapons.

00:26:50.000 The United States have received a true report based on the largest land operation, land war, in many years.

00:27:01.000 So now the United States know where to invest the money, where not to invest the money.

00:27:06.000 I know those conclusions, but this is not public information.

00:27:09.000 But the United States have received this knowledge, this data.

00:27:12.000 And this knowledge could not be acquired without the live operations that the United States have provided money to the development of different drones.

00:27:22.000 Surely it's all about our special forces, RECON, intelligence security service of Ukraine, foreign intelligence.

00:27:30.000 These are the separate money.

00:27:32.000 They are part of those $105 billion.

00:27:35.000 So this is where the scientists were working, the recon, the intelligence, the military engineers were working.

00:27:40.000 Now, what the United States have received, when the United States have paid for those developments, the United States have received complete and open information on the drones.

00:27:50.000 This is the new weapons that was not available to the United States, to Europe, and truly we didn't have it.

00:27:57.000 Now, the United States have received all this experience, all this know-how and development.

00:28:03.000 Now, I'm not...

00:28:05.000 I'm not willing to say that it's a cheap price for all of those developments.

00:28:08.000 We are grateful to every single cent paid by the United States, but this is the fair price, so to say.

00:28:14.000 The knowledge, the experience, you know, that the whole world is based on the knowledge, and I believe that this is what the United States have received.

00:28:23.000 How are medics operating on the battlefield?

00:28:27.000 Everyone knows about this.

00:28:32.000 Medical points or medical stations close to the battlefield where the military surgeries have been taking place.

00:28:38.000 There's medical assistance of different sort that has been provided.

00:28:42.000 Now, all this knowledge, all this experience was transferred to our partners.

00:28:47.000 They've seen that they could make conclusions.

00:28:49.000 They supported the people.

00:28:52.000 The United States, together with the Europeans, have provided the support to the people, and I can give you the conclusions.

00:28:58.000 You can compare the number of killed and the number of casualties.

00:29:03.000 Now, I'm now comparing the Russian army with the Ukrainian army, but look at the portion of the wounded in action and the killed in action.

00:29:14.000 We have the portion of the wounded in action the lowest.

00:29:17.000 If we have one to ten, that is one killed, we have ten wounded in action.

00:29:23.000 Now, in case of Russians, in case of 10 casualties, there will be five killed in action or six by four. 0.75

00:29:31.000 So we're saying that's a different level of medical support.

00:29:33.000 And that knowledge was also provided to our partners.

00:29:36.000 Now, what exactly the United States have received as well?

00:29:40.000 This is the most important thing that I have not mentioned yet.

00:29:42.000 Let's be frank.

00:29:43.000 The people in the world, they believe that we are a living kind of fence.

00:29:51.000 Against Russia's invasion to the civilized world, including the NATO member nations. 0.84

00:29:56.000 And we are kind of a living shield.

00:29:58.000 We are defending this.

00:30:00.000 So if Putin will come to the NATO member countries or when he will do that, I don't believe that I know everything in advance.

00:30:10.000 But let's just imagine, because everyone see who they have.

00:30:18.000 So Putin might go to the European countries.

00:30:22.000 Now, in this case, there would be a need to defend the European nations or to leave the NATO.

00:30:28.000 I'm not saying whether the United States should be doing that or not.

00:30:32.000 That's the choice made by the people of United States and other allies.

00:30:36.000 But this is a question that will definitely be on the agenda.

00:30:40.000 So, as long as Russians are not in any single NATO member nation, your families are not facing with this question. 0.82

00:30:49.000 So, there will be a major question for your families either to send your child to the war or not, to the other country, to some foreign country.

00:31:01.000 So, that's the kind of question.

00:31:03.000 Now, the cost of the United States not searching...

00:31:10.000 And the families are not searching for an answer to this complicated question of whether to send their son or daughter, whether they will return home, like, and alive.

00:31:25.000 Nobody knows the cost of that question, whether the United States is the richest economy in the world, whether this is the biggest amount paid for what's being provided.

00:31:39.000 I'm not saying that's a small amount.

00:31:41.000 I'm saying that this is fair.

00:31:44.000 It's fair that the United States assisted, supported Ukraine, and Ukraine gave away a lot in return for that support and assistance.

00:31:55.000 And, of course, the most precious thing we have is the life of our people.

00:32:00.000 So I want to get to Russia's intentions in a moment and the possibilities of a ceasefire, but Americans have questions about things that are happening here.

00:32:07.000 There have been a lot of accusations that there's been a crackdown on religious freedom in Ukraine, particularly with regard to the Russian Orthodox Church.

00:32:14.000 I just watched you perform a meeting with the all church meeting with members of a wide variety of faiths.

00:32:19.000 Maybe you can respond to the accusations that there's a restriction on religious freedom with regard to Russian Orthodox in Ukraine.

00:32:25.000 Well, first of all, I'm very happy that you're here.

00:32:32.000 That you had a chance to take a look.

00:32:36.000 And really, we have a meeting like that a couple of times per year.

00:32:41.000 And I truly visit some of the church sites.

00:32:46.000 And during the Easter, there's the Easter meetings and Pesach.

00:32:52.000 Have a meeting with all of our religious institutions, and I believe that what Ukraine has, and that is the largest council of churches, the largest in Europe, all of our churches are united, different religions, and everyone is united.

00:33:11.000 We are considering the question.

00:33:13.000 There is the problem in military champions, the mobilization of pastors or priests.

00:33:21.000 There's different questions.

00:33:22.000 We help one another.

00:33:24.000 We believe that the religious actors, if they're on the front line, it could be only through their will voluntarily, and they should be supporting military.

00:33:32.000 Now, if those religious actors, if they're willing to do that, we are kind of considering every single question.

00:33:37.000 We do not believe that these are the major challenges.

00:33:41.000 Because we are having meetings.

00:33:42.000 And if you have a regular meeting, if you have a regular dialogue, then all the big challenges, they kind of remain, but only small ones.

00:33:52.000 And in many cases, we solve those challenges.

00:33:54.000 But they're not catastrophic.

00:33:56.000 They're not tragic for the country and for the religious unity that we have in Ukraine.

00:34:02.000 And we are openly doing that.

00:34:06.000 They advocate what you've heard abroad.

00:34:11.000 They have one single voice.

00:34:13.000 Different faith, but single voice.

00:34:16.000 Nobody's pressing anyone.

00:34:19.000 So today, Svetoslav went to Rome.

00:34:33.000 There's all those ceremonies around the Pope.

00:34:38.000 Francisco Svetoslav went there, went to Rome.

00:34:41.000 He needs that.

00:34:42.000 That's correct.

00:34:43.000 And I'm also planning, together with my wife, to have a visit.

00:34:48.000 We'll have several meetings around the same dates.

00:34:52.000 Now, as for the pressure, there's no pressure, and you will never hear anything about the pressure, because we don't have any additional dialogues with our religious institutions, our religious leaders.

00:35:05.000 There's no shadow practices.

00:35:07.000 We're absolutely open, transparent.

00:35:09.000 There could be cameras.

00:35:11.000 We're no cameras.

00:35:11.000 We're absolutely open.

00:35:12.000 Everyone can tell you there's no pressure.

00:35:16.000 That's non-existent, and every holiday we are together.

00:35:21.000 We have people from different religions, and we're always inviting everyone.

00:35:26.000 That's important.

00:35:27.000 As for the Moscow Church, look, the question is not about the Moscow Church.

00:35:32.000 The question is that in case of Russia, Moscow is just another agency of the KGB.

00:35:39.000 Everyone knows that Russia's special services are in control of the churches.

00:35:44.000 Well, this is how they have.

00:35:46.000 That's their choice.

00:35:47.000 And their people either support that or not.

00:35:51.000 Well, that's their choice.

00:35:52.000 That's their right.

00:35:53.000 And we've never raised this question before the war and during the war.

00:35:58.000 But that's a fact.

00:36:00.000 That their special services are in control of the church.

00:36:03.000 The problem was that their special forces were in control of the churches in Ukraine.

00:36:12.000 The church should be equal.

00:36:15.000 Moscow could not be in control of our church.

00:36:19.000 Their KGB, their intelligence could not be in control or could not be managing the Ukrainian church. 0.63

00:36:25.000 Well, they shouldn't be here.

00:36:28.000 So, the legislative changes in Ukraine are related to the fact that there could be no connection in between of the Moscow and the church.

00:36:38.000 Nobody closed anything or anyone, but it can't be the case that Russia's KGB is in control of the church in Ukraine.

00:36:47.000 Everyone is against this legal ties.

00:36:50.000 So it's not only about the ties at a level of intelligence.

00:36:54.000 There was a legal connection, legal ties for many years.

00:37:00.000 We shouldn't be having disputes or controversies around whose church is older than the others.

00:37:08.000 And Ukraine shouldn't be speaking about this.

00:37:12.000 Look, we're sitting here close to the Sofia Cathedral.

00:37:15.000 Sofia is older than Russia's capital city and any churches they have.

00:37:23.000 This building is older than that.

00:37:25.000 That's the answer.

00:37:26.000 We shouldn't have any disputes.

00:37:27.000 We have scientific evidences.

00:37:29.000 We're just saying that our church should be free from any authorities.

00:37:36.000 It's free for the people.

00:37:38.000 So, one of the other questions that's been asked is about military mobilization.

00:37:42.000 So, you know, obviously you're in the middle of a war.

00:37:44.000 At the same time, there have been reports online that people are being picked up off the streets in places in eastern Ukraine and recruited into services.

00:37:52.000 How do you respond to accusations and videos like that?

00:37:56.000 Every single case is scrutinized by the land forces, by the Ministry of Defense.

00:38:05.000 They're the ones responsible for the mobilization.

00:38:11.000 It can have a different attitude towards mobilization, but we have this mobilization from the beginning of the war.

00:38:16.000 It's in accordance to the legislation, in accordance to the martial law period.

00:38:20.000 So the country is in a war.

00:38:22.000 That is why we do have mobilization.

00:38:24.000 We want the war to end. 0.94

00:38:26.000 We want everything to end.

00:38:27.000 We want to have a fair peace, calmness, and there would be nothing, not the mobilization, not the martial law.

00:38:32.000 But as long as the war, as long as we have the law, there is the mobilization.

00:38:37.000 That is why...

00:38:39.000 There were different aspects, like someone suggested money, someone took money for going or not going to the army.

00:38:50.000 There's different approaches or there are different cases, but we shouldn't be saying that this is the major phase or the main thing that describes Ukraine today.

00:39:00.000 No. Ukraine has 800,000 right now or 600,000 people who volunteered.

00:39:08.000 To go to the army.

00:39:10.000 That was the law on mobilization, but the people were volunteering to go and defend Ukraine.

00:39:17.000 Definitely, there is, well, there's different people, and I think there's different people in every country, and the law enforcement personnel should be making sure that everything would be transparent,

00:39:33.000 there would be no coercion or something.

00:39:35.000 There are some kind of disadvantages.

00:39:39.000 That's a fact.

00:39:40.000 We shouldn't be hiding that like a corruption.

00:39:42.000 But if we have any anti-corruption bodies, there's the security service of Ukrainians.

00:39:47.000 If we are fighting with this on an everyday basis, well, of course, you can hide it, like everything, as in the case of Russia or some European countries, but Ukraine...

00:39:58.000 clearly shows that it is fighting on a constant basis against aspects like that.

00:40:05.000 But those are kind of singular cases.

00:40:08.000 This is not massive.

00:40:10.000 That's more important and that should be reducing on a daily basis we're doing that.

00:40:14.000 As we mentioned, we left Kyiv on Tuesday night.

00:40:17.000 On Wednesday night, Kyiv was hit with one of the biggest missile barrages of the war.

00:40:20.000 We've been checking in on many of the people we met in Ukraine to ensure that they are safe.

00:40:24.000 We'll bring you any updates.

00:40:25.000 That was part one of our interview with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky on Tuesday afternoon.

00:40:29.000 Part two will continue on tomorrow's show.

00:40:33.000 We'll get some more on this in a moment.

00:40:34.000 First, according to a recent ZipRecruiter survey, 76% of employers plan to expand their headcount for 2025.

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00:41:25.000 Also, you know how most kids' vitamins out there are basically just candy with a vitamin label on them?

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00:42:51.000 Get your kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

00:42:55.000 Meanwhile, in other news, the Trump administration signed an excellent executive order yesterday to eliminate the use of so-called disparate impact liability.

00:43:03.000 Disparate impact liability is the idea that you can simply discern whether a branch of government or a company, for example, is racist based on the pure numbers of blacks versus whites who get a particular benefit.

00:43:16.000 That if there's a disparate impact of a law or a policy, it must be that the law or the policy is racist.

00:43:21.000 That, of course, is absurd.

00:43:22.000 There are plenty of reasons for disparities in outcome that don't have to do with discrimination.

00:43:27.000 And so the White House, President Trump, signed an executive order restoring equality of opportunity and meritocracy.

00:43:33.000 That's the goal of it.

00:43:34.000 The executive order says a bedrock principle of the United States that all citizens are treated equally under the law.

00:43:39.000 This principle guarantees equality of opportunity, not equal outcomes.

00:43:42.000 It promises that people are treated as individuals, not components of a particular race or group.

00:43:46.000 It encourages meritocracy in a colorblind society, not race or sex based favoritism.

00:43:50.000 Adherence to this principle is essential to creating opportunity, encouraging achievement and sustaining the American dream.

00:43:56.000 A pernicious movement endangers this foundational principle seeking to transform America's promise of equal opportunity into a divisive pursuit of results.

00:44:04.000 Preordained by irrelevant immutable characteristics, regardless of individual strengths, efforts or achievement.

00:44:09.000 A key tool of this movement is disparate impact liability, which holds that a near insurmountable presumption of unlawful discrimination exists where there are any differences in outcomes in certain circumstances among different races, sexes or similar groups.

00:44:20.000 Even if there is no facially discriminatory policy or practice or discriminatory intent involved, and even if everyone has an equal opportunity to be able to do it.

00:44:27.000 This is a great, great move by the Trump administration.

00:44:30.000 Should have been done long ago by Republicans going all the way back to Richard Nixon.

00:44:34.000 Good for President Trump on that score.

00:44:36.000 And one of the benefits of the Trump presidency, taking seriously DEI and destroying it.

00:44:41.000 Really, really important stuff.

00:44:42.000 Meanwhile, the White House seems to be backing off some of its trade war with China.

00:44:47.000 Again, the signals are really quite mixed.

00:44:49.000 Sometimes they seem like they're saying they're going to back off some of the tariffs unilaterally.

00:44:53.000 Sometimes they say they're going to be negotiating something with China.

00:44:56.000 Again, I'm very much in favor of a trade war with China, as long as it is well thought out, as long as all the preconditions are there. 1.00

00:45:02.000 President Trump yesterday said the goal is to have a fair deal with China.

00:45:06.000 Can you clarify, Mr. President, on China?

00:45:08.000 Yeah, we are going to have a fair deal with China.

00:45:12.000 Are you talking to them actively now?

00:45:15.000 Actively. Everything's active.

00:45:17.000 Everybody wants to be a part of what we're doing.

00:45:19.000 They know that they can't get away with it any longer, but they're still going to do fine.

00:45:25.000 Again, the White House is considering slashing the China tariffs in order to de-escalate the trade war, according to the Wall Street Journal.

00:45:32.000 President Trump hasn't made a final determination.

00:45:34.000 One administration official said Trump wouldn't act unilaterally.

00:45:37.000 He'd need to see some action from Beijing to lower tariffs.

00:45:39.000 But this seems to be something the Trump administration is trying to back off of, considering the market impacts as well as the polling impacts.

00:45:45.000 According to Pew, President Trump is down to 40% in the approval ratings.

00:45:49.000 According to a Harvard Youth poll, his numbers have dropped precipitously with young people.

00:45:54.000 Just under a third of young people currently approve of his job performance.

00:45:58.000 A large part of that is tied to economic uncertainty.

00:46:02.000 White House spokesman Kush Desai said President Trump has been clear China needs to make a deal with the United States.

00:46:06.000 When decisions on tariffs are made, they'll come directly from the president.

00:46:09.000 Anything else is pure speculation.

00:46:11.000 Treasury Secretary Scott Besson did tell reporters Trump has not offered to take down U.S. tariffs on China on a unilateral basis, so it may take longer than expected.

00:46:20.000 However, here was Scott Besson laying out the idea that we do need trade partners.

00:46:25.000 On this point, I wish to be clear.

00:46:28.000 America First does not mean America alone.

00:46:33.000 To the contrary, it is a call for deeper collaboration and mutual respect among trade partners.

00:46:41.000 Far from stepping back, America First seeks to expand U.S. leadership in international institutions like the IMF and the World Bank.

00:46:52.000 by embracing a stronger leadership role, America First seeks to restore fairness to the international economic system.

00:47:02.000 Again, there is a very simple rule when it comes to the Trump administration's policy.

00:47:06.000 Listen to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant and stop listening to other members of the administration.

00:47:11.000 Besant knows what he's talking about.

00:47:13.000 That is not true of trade advisor Peter Navarro.

00:47:15.000 It's not true of some other members of the administration.

00:47:18.000 Besant does have a good, solid view as to what the Trump administration is attempting to do, and he understands markets well enough to understand the best ways to achieve all of that.

00:47:27.000 Every time Besant speaks, the market spikes, and there is a reason for that.

00:47:30.000 Yeah.

00:47:31.000 Presumably, it was Besant and his team who helped convince President Trump not to fire Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell or threaten to fire him.

00:47:37.000 That was roiling markets, according to the Washington Post.

00:47:40.000 President Trump's abrupt shift in rhetoric on Tuesday toward Jerome Powell reflected the private lobbying of some of his senior advisors who had urged the president to back off his incendiary attacks on the central bank.

00:47:49.000 And that is a good thing.

00:47:50.000 Again, one of the things that's hilarious and amazing about what's going on economically speaking is,

00:47:53.000 And if you're going to make major moves, you really do have to prep the ground for those major moves.

00:48:07.000 Meanwhile, by the way, Great Britain is saying that they're not going to alter their standards or rush a U.S. trade deal.

00:48:13.000 One of the problems here for President Trump is many of the people he's negotiating with are not actually on board with his trade war, and so they're kind of eager to watch the United States twist in the wind a little bit here.

00:48:24.000 According to Rachel Reeves, the British Chancellor of the Exchequer, she said that Britain will not rush into a trade deal with the United States or change its food or car safety standards.

00:48:32.000 She said she wanted to reduce trade barriers between Britain and other countries, but they're not going to rush to it, which again is because they now believe that they have President Trump a little bit over a barrel.

00:48:42.000 In terms of this trade war, because the economy has been roiling thanks to the trade war.

00:48:46.000 Okay, meanwhile, today marks Yom HaShoah, which is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

00:48:52.000 And Holocaust Remembrance Day was commemorated at Yale by throwing water bottles at Jews.

00:48:56.000 So things were going really well over at Yale last night.

00:48:59.000 The Yale anti-Israel encampments are back.

00:49:03.000 The Tentafada is back.

00:49:05.000 They set up in response to a visit by Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gavir, who is one of the furthest right ministers in the Israeli government.

00:49:14.000 Around 200 people calling for the university cutting of financial ties with Israel erected tents in Beineke Plaza on the anniversary of the first encampment, according to the Jerusalem Post.

00:49:23.000 And there they set up checkpoints for Jews on the evening of Holocaust Remembrance Day, which starts at night in Israel.

00:49:31.000 Just wonderful, wonderful people.

00:49:32.000 By the way, I'm glad they're doing this because this is an excellent excuse for the Trump administration's Office of Civil Rights, led by Harmeet Dillon, to crack down on Yale and maybe...

00:49:40.000 Start taxing its endowment or removing its federal funding.

00:49:43.000 Because if Yale refuses to do anything about, you know, like actually setting up checkpoints for Jews at the university, that is a violation of the Civil Rights Act in the same way it would be if whites set up a cordon to prevent black students from getting to certain parts of the campus.

00:49:58.000 Here are these Yale protesters blocking Jews.

00:50:00.000 We will not stop.

00:50:02.000 We will not rest.

00:50:03.000 It's closed.

00:50:04.000 Divest! We will not stop.

00:50:06.000 We will not rest.

00:50:07.000 It's closed.

00:50:08.000 Divest! We can only go around.

00:50:12.000 Divest! We will honor all our martyrs. 0.80

00:50:15.000 We will honor all our martyrs.

00:50:17.000 Fathers, fathers, sons and daughters.

00:50:19.000 Fathers, fathers, sons and daughters.

00:50:22.000 Free, free Palestine!

00:50:30.000 I mean, I will say they're good at chanting like robots.

00:50:33.000 That's exciting stuff.

00:50:34.000 By the way, worth noting here, they are all masked.

00:50:36.000 For those who can't see the footage, they are all masked using like N95s because they're some of the most pathetic people alive. 1.00

00:50:44.000 All these people would be immediately tossed off the top of buildings in the Gaza Strip if Hamas had its way.

00:50:49.000 Standing there and blocking Jews from getting to parts of campus on Holocaust.

00:50:52.000 You know, good.

00:50:53.000 I mean, I guess good for them.

00:50:54.000 They've got the courage of saying the thing out loud.

00:50:57.000 By the way, where do you think those chants are coming from?

00:51:00.000 We are mourning all our martyrs.

00:51:02.000 Have you ever heard that sort of language from the left typically?

00:51:05.000 Like if you're at a normal commie idiot rally, do they use the term martyrs?

00:51:09.000 Or is that language that is coming directly from fans and allies of Hamas?

00:51:13.000 There's only one group on planet Earth who talks like that, who speaks about martyrs in English like that.

00:51:20.000 And that would be radical Islamists.

00:51:23.000 Most people do not speak like that, particularly not in the United States of America.

00:51:27.000 And there's more footage of protesters blocking Jews and tossing water bottles at Jews and all the rest of it.

00:51:32.000 *Pewds singing*

00:51:39.000 The Jewish students saying they just want to walk through this part of campus and they're saying no. 0.95

00:51:51.000 Honestly, this is good news.

00:51:52.000 I hope they continue to do this and I hope that Yale gets absolutely clocked by the Trump Justice Department.

00:51:57.000 I think that'd be an excellent and proper way to respond to the trash administration over at Yale.

00:52:02.000 So I asked my friends and sponsors over at Perplexity just how big is Yale's endowment and also how much federal taxpayer money does Yale receive?

00:52:10.000 According to Perplexity, Yale University's endowment stood at $41.4 billion as of June 30th, 2024, making it the second largest university endowment in the United States, only behind Harvard.

00:52:20.000 They have plenty of money.

00:52:21.000 So if they start losing taxpayer money, well, they can just deal with it because...

00:52:25.000 You know what?

00:52:25.000 Violation of the Civil Rights Act?

00:52:27.000 Not okay.

00:52:28.000 Actually illegal.

00:52:29.000 As far as federal funding, in fiscal year 2024, Yale received, wait for it, $898.7 million in federal funding.

00:52:39.000 Federal funding to Yale is significant, but it's actually not the leader.

00:52:42.000 Pennsylvania, UPenn, received $1.8 billion.

00:52:45.000 Columbia University, $1.3 billion.

00:52:46.000 Harvard University, $686.5 million in the same period.

00:52:51.000 So yeah, they're vulnerable.

00:52:53.000 And they should be held to account in the same way that Harvard is being held to account.

00:52:55.000 I'm sure the Trump administration is very eager to put its actions on Harvard in practice with Yale as well.

00:53:02.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment.

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00:54:04.000 Okay, folks, coming up.

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The Ben Shapiro Show - April 24, 2025

My Journey To Ukraine and My Interview With Zelensky

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