The Ben Shapiro Show - On the Front Lines of Freedom | President of Argentina, Javier Milei

An economist by profession and a maverick by nature, President Javier Mille has become a polarizing figure in Argentine politics, championing a libertarian approach in a landscape traditionally dominated by populist and socialist policies. His journey to the presidency is not just a political story, but a narrative about challenging the entrenched status quo, advocating for radical change, and inspiring a movement. Join us for a riveting discussion that spans the spectrum of political, economic, and social ideology, and offers a glimpse into the mind of one of today s most fascinating political figures. In today s conversation, we explore his incisive views on the current state of the West, dissecting the ideological battles that threaten the foundational principles of freedom and prosperity, and dissect his prescriptions for recovery. We also delve into his personal journey, tracing the roots of his political and economic philosophies to his formative years, and uncovering the experiences that shaped his worldview and the moments that propelled him from a renowned economist to a national leader. In a world where the specter of socialism looms large, Javier Millet stands as a bulwark against the threats to economic freedom, and championing policies that empower individuals and foster entrepreneurship, Mr. Millet's diagnosis of Argentina s economic woes are both controversial and compelling. Join us as we explore the challenges Argentina's economic woes and his prescriptions to restore economic stability and growth. This episode is a must-listen to one of the most influential political figures in the world. The Sunday Special is produced and hosted by The New York Times bestselling author and award-winning journalist, Gabriel Pizzi. . Thank you for your support of this podcast! for producing this episode. and for contributing to the podcast. for sponsoring the podcast and for supporting the podcast, for a chance to win a copy of the Sunday Special? to be featured in the next episode of Sunday Special on Sunday Special, Subscribe to Sunday Special in the new issue of The Economist s newest issue of the New York Review of The New Republic magazine, The Economist The Vagabond. Subscribe here: Subscribe on Podulio Subscribe in Apple Podcasts! Subscribe on iTunes Learn more about your ad choices, subscribe on Audible or wherever else you get the show is listening to the latest episode of the podcast? Subscribe on social media? Subscribe to the show? Subscribe and subscribe on your favorite podcast, subscribe to the Podulium podcast?

00:00:01.000 How come my approval ratings have gone up and the intention of people to vote for me has also increased?

00:00:12.000 It means that the culture battle is bearing fruit, and the Argentine people have decided to mature, put on long pants, do things right, once and for all. So this goes well beyond the individual Javier

00:00:29.000 Millet. This means that the Argentine people have decided to espouse freedom, and

00:00:35.000 that is the best message.

00:00:38.000 Today we're honored to host a figure who has not only captivated the attention of his nation,

00:00:42.000 but has stirred conversations around the globe about the direction of Western civilization,

00:00:46.000 economic freedom, and the power of individualism. A figure whose meteoric rise in politics is

00:00:51.000 is matched only by his unyielding dedication to core conservative principles.

00:00:55.000 Today, we welcome President Javier Mille to the Sunday Special.

00:00:59.000 An economist by profession and a maverick by nature, President Mille has become a polarizing figure in Argentine politics, championing a libertarian approach in a landscape traditionally dominated by populist and socialist policies.

00:01:10.000 His journey to the presidency is not just a political story, it's a narrative about challenging the entrenched status quo, advocating for radical change, and inspiring a movement.

00:01:19.000 Mille has risen to prominence through his outspoken criticism of fiscal irresponsibility, his advocacy for reducing the size of government, and his unique ability to connect with the disaffected voters tired of traditional politics.

00:01:30.000 In 2018, Mille became the most interviewed economist on television, with 235 interviews, also hosting his own radio show, Demoliendo Mitos, or Demolishing Myths.

00:01:40.000 In 2023, Millet ran for president as part of La Libertad Avanza, and as inflation rose above 100% in the country, so did Millet's position in the polls.

00:01:48.000 On November 19, 2023, he defeated his political opponent, Sergio Massa, in a landslide historic election, gaining the highest percentage of the vote since Argentina became a democracy.

00:01:58.000 In his victory speech, Millet promised a reconstruction of Argentina and the end to its economic decline, a new era.

00:02:04.000 Since taking office, President Mele has lowered the number of ministries from 18 to 9, deregulated the Argentine economy, and slowed inflation in the country.

00:02:12.000 In today's conversation, we explore Mele's incisive views on the current state of the West, dissecting the ideological battles that threaten the foundational principles of freedom and prosperity.

00:02:21.000 We discuss Argentina's economic turmoil, characterized by rampant inflation, fiscal deficits, and a burgeoning public debt.

00:02:27.000 Mile's diagnosis of Argentina's economic woes and his prescriptions for recovery are both controversial and compelling, advocating for sweeping reforms to restore economic stability and growth.

00:02:37.000 We also delve into Mile's personal journey, tracing the roots of his political and economic philosophies to his formative years, uncovering experiences that shaped his worldview and the moments that propelled him from a renowned economist to a national leader.

00:02:49.000 In a world where the specter of socialism looms large, Millet stands as a bulwark against the threats to economic freedom, championing policies that empower individuals and foster entrepreneurship.

00:02:58.000 Join us for a riveting discussion that spans the spectrum of political, economic, and social

00:03:02.000 ideology and offers a glimpse into the mind of one of today's most fascinating political figures.

00:03:06.000 President Millet, it's an honor to meet you.

00:03:20.000 I want to start by asking you, how do you make such audacious moves economically?

00:03:25.000 What was the lead-up?

00:03:26.000 For people who don't know anything about Argentina, what was the situation that led to your election, and how does that give you the freedom to actually make such audacious moves economically?

00:03:38.000 Well, to begin with, when we took office, we inherited the worst possible inheritance an Argentine government ever got in all of our history. 0.97

00:03:50.000 And when a country has twin deficits amounting to four points of GDP, that's a yellow alert,

00:03:59.000 eight is red alert, we inherited 16% of GDP.

00:04:07.000 And of the 16 or 17 points, 15 related to fiscal deficit and five pertain to the treasury

00:04:17.000 deficit and 10 points of GDP related to the central bank.

00:04:22.000 The debt of the central bank, the previous government had extended the maturities from 30 to 60 to 90, 150 and 180 days, Originally, and then it all was transferred to a single day, so there was a potential of us quadrupling the amount of money within a single day.

00:04:49.000 At the same time, the deficits accumulated throughout all of the Kirchnerista government had been so high that it had topped 13 points of GDP in the last year.

00:05:05.000 That is to say, five times the monetary base.

00:05:11.000 And besides, when in December price control started to be lifted, inflation in the first week was traveling at 3,700% a year.

00:05:26.000 And it kept on accelerating and wholesale inflation in December, which was 54% monthly, if annualized, amounts to 17,000%.

00:05:32.000 percent monthly, if annualized, amounts to 17,000%.

00:05:39.000 This meant we were facing a situation in which, structurally, there was a monetary imbalance

00:05:48.000 that was even worse than what we had had in 1975 before the Rodriguazo crisis in Argentina.

00:05:59.000 The situation in the central bank was much worse than in 1989 before the hyperinflation period during President Alfonsín's government.

00:06:12.000 The social indicators were at levels worse than in 2001, so it was the sum of all evils.

00:06:20.000 It was obvious that Argentina needed to make an adjustment.

00:06:26.000 And the fact is that the only way to pursue an adjustment without financing required a shock therapy which had to be really abrupt given this constellation of imbalances.

00:06:43.000 If the crisis had exploded today, we wouldn't just be looking at hyperinflation but at 95% poor and probably 50 or 60% extreme poor.

00:06:55.000 So, in that context, there was no alternative but an adjustment.

00:06:59.000 So, we announced a zero deficit program, an adjustment in order to no longer have a fiscal

00:07:11.000 deficit and to stop the issuing on the treasury front.

00:07:19.000 We started also to clean up the balance sheets of the central bank to bring down the 10 points of GDP relating to the central bank and at the same time As there was a currency gap of 200%, we introduced a change correction to try and reduce the gap.

00:07:38.000 And we were hoping that zero deficit would be achieved during 2024 at some point.

00:07:46.000 All analysts predicted that would be impossible to achieve.

00:07:52.000 And we basically succeeded in doing that within a single month.

00:07:58.000 So, that part of the adjustment It means that we made the largest fiscal adjustment in the history of humanity.

00:08:09.000 And this has been recognized by the IMF.

00:08:12.000 But we also made an adjustment to the central bank balance sheets.

00:08:17.000 The quasi-fiscal deficit of 10 percentage points of GDP went down to four.

00:08:23.000 So, within three months, We made an adjustment amounting to 12 points of GDP and inflation for December had been at 25%.

00:08:33.000 In January it fell to 20%.

00:08:34.000 In January it fell to 20.

00:08:37.000 In February it went down to 13.

00:08:41.000 It is expected that in March, which is a very complex month, it will be around 12.5%.

00:08:52.000 And we hope to bring it down to the single digit region if we look at co-inflation.

00:08:58.000 And we...

00:08:59.000 I hope that core inflation will also be reaching a single-digit level and a low one.

00:09:06.000 We have improved in terms of inflation and also improved the balance sheets of the central bank, because although we received the central bank with net negative reserves, $11.5 billion, minus that is, and Ever since we took office, we've built up reserves in the amount of over $12 billion, and in spite of having purchased foreign currency and in spite of the put options that triggered money printing, and this was the working of the previous government, which controlled the exchange rate, and also the interest-bearing liabilities was another issue.

00:09:51.000 We used to have the Lelic bonds, and we also had the repos, and the contraction through the Bopreal bond, which sought to redeem pesos, coupled with fiscal surplus, led to us achieving a constant level of the monetary base.

00:10:13.000 We increased the assets of the central bank without increasing the liabilities of the

00:10:19.000 bank.

00:10:20.000 So this means we're enhancing the credit quality of the central bank.

00:10:24.000 The price level in the long term will be lower and inflation, which is the slope of the line

00:10:32.000 that links the current and future price level, that flattens out and the inflation rate comes

00:10:41.000 down and inflation expectations have been decreasing greatly.

00:10:46.000 In addition, and this is something you will see, many investment banks when we took office Expected inflation around 250% for the coming year.

00:10:59.000 Now they're talking about 30%.

00:11:00.000 So the program is working.

00:11:06.000 And yet another and even more important thing is that the exchange gap has disappeared and the futures curve of the dollar is aligned with the monetary policy designed by the central bank.

00:11:18.000 So we are highly optimistic.

00:11:20.000 And of course, An adjustment such as this one does have an impact on economic activity, and this is something we're aware of.

00:11:29.000 But the good news is that the mining sector, for instance, is already growing.

00:11:36.000 Oil and gas is growing as well.

00:11:38.000 The agricultural sector is also growing.

00:11:45.000 And other sectors are starting to slow down their decline strongly.

00:11:52.000 And we're starting to see a V-curve evolution, which is important because we thought this would happen well into the second half of the year.

00:12:04.000 And this has started already.

00:12:07.000 And there are also some very interesting things, because although 75% of Argentines recognize that they are worse off, today, and consider this, when we took office, only 20% of the people thought we would be better off during this year.

00:12:28.000 In January the figure went up to 30%, in February it went up to 40%, and today it stands at 50%.

00:12:37.000 So, half the Argentine people think will be able to recover.

00:12:43.000 When you ask them about inflation, 70% of Argentines are convinced that we are going to recover.

00:12:50.000 And put an end to inflation.

00:12:52.000 And besides, when you use one of these word clouds and ask people about their spontaneous feelings in Argentina, the word that most often comes up is hope.

00:13:06.000 And that has two direct consequences.

00:13:11.000 One of them being that my approval rating is at the same level as when I took office, which is the best time a president enjoys when they first take office.

00:13:23.000 And on the other hand, if we were going to have a run of election today, like the one we had last year, today we would win by 58 to 42.

00:13:35.000 But out of the 48 today, of the 52, 48% of the people would vote for us even in the first election round.

00:13:48.000 So, we have increased our base of voters and we would even be able to win in the first round.

00:13:56.000 The second most popular politician after ourselves is Cristina Fernández de Kirchner with 20.

00:14:04.000 And of course, if we were to have that election, we would end up having 53% of the vote.

00:14:12.000 And what I think is most important here, and I think Ben, you will also see this, in the face of such an adjustment, how come My approval ratings have gone up and the intention of people to vote for me has also increased.

00:14:33.000 It means that the culture battle is bearing fruit.

00:14:37.000 And the Ardennes people have decided to mature, put on long pants, do things right, Once and for all.

00:14:45.000 So this goes well beyond the individual Javier Millet.

00:14:51.000 This means that the Argentine people have decided to espouse freedom, and that is the best message.

00:14:58.000 And this is what drives us to keep going, because we know That the way from A to B wouldn't be a straight and trouble-free line.

00:15:10.000 But what matters is that we know where we want to go.

00:15:14.000 And, you know… The Congress of Argentina may approve my reforms or not.

00:15:23.000 But if they don't approve them now, I intend to send them to Congress after 2025, when we have a more favorable structure in Congress.

00:15:33.000 And not only will I complete the 1,000 reforms I have already sent in, but also I will send the other remaining 3,000.

00:15:41.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment.

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00:16:39.000 You know, it's astonishing because you're doing all of these audacious things.

00:16:43.000 And people in the West, particularly on the left, I think are confused by this.

00:16:48.000 I think that they treat it as something anathema.

00:16:51.000 Even people on the right don't understand the audacity of what you're doing.

00:16:55.000 But what you campaigned on, capitalism, freedom, private property, liberty, all of these things used to be a core part of the West.

00:17:04.000 What example should Argentina play for the rest of the West in how they went the wrong way?

00:17:10.000 Can the West avert that more generally?

00:17:12.000 Well, in that regard, we think the most important thing was the previous culture battle.

00:17:31.000 All of these ideas that the world has been embracing in recent years and this political

00:17:38.000 correction which basically means embracing socialist ideas.

00:17:44.000 You know, this is socialism in different stripes. 0.99

00:17:51.000 What you need to do is realize that Argentina tried out all these things, the stupidity of social justice. 0.99

00:17:59.000 Argentina is an iconic example of social justice and of the damage it can do, social justice that is. 1.00

00:18:06.000 So, what you need to understand is that Argentina As part of this process that led to it being the wealthiest country in the world and then being number 140.

00:18:20.000 This is why in Davos I said the West is in danger.

00:18:23.000 Because we gave up the ideas of freedom that create prosperity and we started to embrace the ideas of decadence, socialist ideas.

00:18:34.000 And therefore what happened in Argentina was that These ideas permeated things.

00:18:43.000 Gramsci had worked very nice in Argentina.

00:18:46.000 It had permeated education, culture, politics, whatever you look, there was socialism, the media.

00:18:56.000 So this is why the role of young people has been so important in this process.

00:19:02.000 Because youth, young people, are naturally rebellious when it comes to the status quo.

00:19:10.000 Young people, being exposed to so much socialism, naturally responded by being liberal.

00:19:20.000 That's the first point.

00:19:22.000 The second point is that, being young, they had been exposed for much less time to the brainwashing process in public education.

00:19:33.000 And another thing was that as they have access to social media, one of the things I used to do when I went on TV, something that I still do, was to quote my reference authors.

00:19:49.000 And this made young people go and check out who these authors were, what with YouTube and Google and search engines, you know, The book downloads that led to an explosion of knowledge.

00:20:10.000 In fact, our greatest authority on freedom and liberty in Argentina, Dr. Benegas Lynch, Jr., the founding father, as I like to call him, used to say, the great difference between this movement and the one in the late 80s was that this time, young people were really educated.

00:20:34.000 We would organize what we call the concerts.

00:20:40.000 There were political rallies, but the format was more like a Rolling Stones concert.

00:20:46.000 As I like the Rolling Stones and I would have loved to have been like Mick Jagger.

00:20:50.000 I do it, but of course, through politics.

00:20:54.000 I didn't make it singing because I'm really lousy, but at least I managed to do it through politics.

00:21:00.000 And one of the wonderful things is that at these rallies, we had stands like, you know, in concerts with T-shirts, memorabilia and different items.

00:21:14.000 And there were stands as well with books.

00:21:17.000 And Minister Bullrich, who was also a candidate for Together for Change, and I'm very proud to have her form part of my cabinet.

00:21:33.000 She's my minister for security and is doing a terrific job.

00:21:40.000 Our defense minister, Dr. Petri, they were the other ticket for change, but Argentines decided to choose a much more radical, profound and aggressive change that we represented.

00:21:57.000 And this is very interesting because at one point Mrs. Bullrich said something brilliant.

00:22:06.000 You should pay more attention to what Millet is doing.

00:22:10.000 It's not normal for a politician to be talking to 20,000 or 30,000 people about Hayek.

00:22:16.000 So, clearly something was on the way.

00:22:25.000 And I remember once we were already running for the presidency in the province of Mendoza,

00:22:37.000 I started to explain dollarization.

00:22:40.000 And I saw a lot of...

00:22:43.000 And you know, I've taught many courses and one was monetary theory.

00:22:50.000 I'm a specialist in economic growth with and without money.

00:22:53.000 So, I can lecture on growth, on money and on growth with or without money.

00:23:00.000 And one of the complex Issues I've had to explain in my monetary theory courses has been the issue of the nominal anchor, which most economists do not quite understand.

00:23:15.000 And there I was in Mendoza talking to 20,000 people and at one point I was explaining the

00:23:25.000 nominal anchor to 20,000 people.

00:23:31.000 And when I realized this, I said, this can't be happening.

00:23:34.000 So in my head, I said to myself, I'm teaching a class on the nominal anchor with 20,000 people in the audience.

00:23:42.000 That was also very powerful.

00:23:45.000 And of course, then, you probably know this, Ben, the Chinese have a symbol, That means crisis and opportunity as well. 0.84

00:24:02.000 And that was what the pandemic became because it not only led to revaluing freedom, which had to do with our ideas and message that came at the right time.

00:24:20.000 It was the right message at the right time.

00:24:23.000 And young people did a great job in their own homes too.

00:24:28.000 Because they started to evangelize at home with their parents and grandparents.

00:24:35.000 So, what happens is when you don't like what you are seeing on TV, you can get hold of a channel changer and change channels.

00:24:42.000 But when your children start saying, Mele, Mele, Mele, you might not listen the first time, not the second time, but you don't have a channel changer for your children.

00:24:52.000 At the end of the day, they got their parents to listen to me and this is what helps explain this success story.

00:25:00.000 But what you need to understand is that this wouldn't have been possible if it hadn't been for the culture battle. 0.65

00:25:10.000 When I started to give my talks, there used to be 10 to 15 people.

00:25:18.000 We'll get to more on this in just a moment. 0.99

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00:26:21.000 So, you know, there's a philosophy that's arisen in the West that the hope of your country is rejecting.

00:26:30.000 And that philosophy is that if you fail in life, in a free system, it's because you have somehow been victimized.

00:26:36.000 And I think maybe one of the reasons Argentinians are now more positive, more hopeful, is because they're grabbing control of their own lives. 1.00

00:26:42.000 In a free system, they get to rise or fall on their own merit.

00:26:46.000 When you extend that to foreign policy, that philosophy that failure is victimhood, you end up with anti-Westernism.

00:26:52.000 And you've been fighting that in your own country as well.

00:26:55.000 You've been reorienting Argentina away from certain countries and toward the West more, whether it's America, whether it's Europe, whether it's Israel.

00:27:04.000 Maybe you can speak about that.

00:27:05.000 You've obviously talked about moving the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

00:27:08.000 You want to draw closer to Western allies.

00:27:11.000 What's the importance of that?

00:27:14.000 Okay, let's take one thing at a time.

00:27:21.000 Because if you take a look at what I said at the beginning, Ben, I said the Argentine people have matured.

00:27:31.000 They have put on long trousers.

00:27:36.000 What I mean by this is that they managed to understand that we can't keep putting the blame on others for what's happening to us, whether it be the United States or Europe.

00:27:50.000 Or the IMF or whoever.

00:27:53.000 In fact, one of the points I raised during the campaign has to do with the fact that, I said, unlike other politicians, you know, when there's an election coming up, a traditional politician asks you to vote for them in order for you to give them the power to control your life.

00:28:19.000 In other words, they treat you like a kid, even worse than a teenager.

00:28:28.000 And faced with this, we said to ourselves, we don't want to do that.

00:28:34.000 When we ask for a vote, it is in order to give you back freedom and for you to be the architect of your own destiny.

00:28:43.000 So that on the first part of the point you made regarding this attitude of Argentines and how this has been changing.

00:28:56.000 So, we have decided to embrace the values of the West, and embracing the values of the

00:29:03.000 West means embracing the ideas of the founding fathers of the United States.

00:29:11.000 In fact, the original constitution of Argentina was to a great extent fashioned after the

00:29:20.000 Constitution, drafted mainly by Juan Bautista Alverde in 1853, and in 1860 When that was implemented, Argentina ended up becoming a leading world power after having been a backwater.

00:29:38.000 So, embracing the values of the West is fundamental in order to again become a developed country.

00:29:44.000 In fact, the 1,000 reforms we sent to Congress during the first month If all of them were to stand, to remain effective, Argentina would climb up 90 spots in terms of economic freedom, and the country could resemble Germany in 20 years' time.

00:30:04.000 And if you consider what I said a few moments ago, I said, OK, that's 1,000 reforms.

00:30:09.000 We still have another 3,000.

00:30:13.000 In fact, what we are trying to do is to be like Ireland, which from being the poorest European country, within 30 or 40 years, managed to achieve per capita GDP 50% higher than that of the United States.

00:30:32.000 That's a model.

00:30:33.000 That's what we would like to do.

00:30:35.000 And that means that we need to embrace the values of freedom.

00:30:41.000 Which ideas are in the United States, even though in recent times they may have been degraded and some might have walked off the path.

00:30:57.000 And they're also in Europe, even though they're full of regulations and they are facing stagnation.

00:31:04.000 But above all things, those values are in Israel.

00:31:10.000 And in Israel, they are in the second book of the Torah, in Shemot, Exodus.

00:31:22.000 And without a doubt...

00:31:25.000 And without doubt, the greatest freedom hero of all time was Moses.

00:31:32.000 This is why it is so important To understand the link between freedom and Israel.

00:31:45.000 That is vital.

00:31:48.000 That's a people that managed... I can't quite find the word.

00:31:57.000 In a way, it has achieved a synthesis between the spiritual and the material.

00:32:07.000 And that spiritual and material harmony creates progress.

00:32:18.000 When I used to give my lectures before going into politics, I, in later times, I used to

00:32:26.000 talk about the moral superiority of capitalism.

00:32:28.000 Originally, I used to believe that Socialism was a sort of mental disease that people who believed in socialism had some issue with understanding because having been defeated,

00:32:49.000 In the theoretical field, and having been defeated also empirically, because wherever pure socialism was applied, it failed culturally, socially, economically, and they also murdered millions of human beings.

00:33:06.000 So, I couldn't get it around my head.

00:33:09.000 Some people could adhere to such murderous, impoverishing ideas.

00:33:15.000 Socialism has always been an impoverishing and murderous phenomenon everywhere.

00:33:22.000 So, I continued to develop this line and I got the answer through economic theory and it has to do With the value theory, when you get to the end of the debate, you find the debate between the subjective and objective value theory.

00:33:44.000 So the question is, why can't they leave the objective value theory?

00:33:51.000 And they can't because the objective value theory is what allows you to apply the theory

00:33:58.000 of exploitation of Rothsparzers improved by Marx with the surplus value concept.

00:34:04.000 So why do they apply this?

00:34:06.000 And that's where the moral values become clear.

00:34:10.000 Envy, hate, resentment, unequal treatment before the law, and if necessary, murder.

00:34:17.000 When institutions emerging from such moral values are nefarious and you will end up sinking

00:34:23.000 as a result of this.

00:34:24.000 And when you instead embrace the ideas of freedom, what happens is that you are elevated

00:34:33.000 as a human being and that leads to institutions that bring you to progress.

00:34:44.000 You can only be successful in capitalism offering better goods at a better quality at a better

00:34:51.000 So, you're a social benefactor.

00:34:54.000 You are the epitome of loving thy neighbor in capitalism.

00:34:59.000 So, aside from different events that throughout my life have had a strong impact on me and have led me to Judaism, the set of values is fundamental to build institutions.

00:35:20.000 And when you read about Moses, you become a Taliban of freedom.

00:35:25.000 I mean, what you're saying is embedded even in Adam Smith, who wrote a theory of moral sentiments before he wrote A Wealth of Nations.

00:35:32.000 The basic idea that man is made in the image of God from Genesis.

00:35:35.000 The basic idea that we're all supposed to be equal before the law, which comes again from the Bible.

00:35:40.000 The basic idea of property rights, which also is in the Bible.

00:35:43.000 All of that, as you say, is the backdrop to capitalism.

00:35:46.000 You speak about this stuff so eloquently.

00:35:48.000 The image of you in the United States, however, is the video of you ripping down departments.

00:35:53.000 Afuera! 0.99

00:35:55.000 Or the videos of you holding up a chainsaw.

00:35:59.000 How do you square that?

00:36:01.000 How are you both those people?

00:36:02.000 The person who can speak so eloquently on economics and speak about interest rates in detail, but at the same time the person who has no problem going on stage and carrying a chainsaw.

00:36:17.000 Well, that's more complex.

00:36:23.000 It's true, I'm a professional economist.

00:36:31.000 But there are some very dark sides to my life.

00:36:34.000 For instance, at one point in my life I was a soccer goalkeeper and that had a lot to

00:36:50.000 do with fashioning my personality.

00:36:54.000 For example, out of the 11 players on the team, the goalie is the only one that can use the hands to play legally.

00:37:03.000 At the same time, they are the one who dresses differently.

00:37:13.000 The goalkeeper also trains on their own.

00:37:15.000 They have a different workout and training.

00:37:19.000 And unlike the others, when they make mistakes, they have their own goals.

00:37:24.000 And it's a very thankless position because when a goalkeeper saves a goal, it's tantamount

00:37:39.000 to scoring a goal.

00:37:41.000 And when a forward scores a goal, it's a goal.

00:37:44.000 But forwards are worth a lot more than a goalkeeper.

00:37:52.000 So that goes to show that it's a very tough position to be in, and it requires a very bold personality.

00:38:02.000 And if you take a look at my electoral campaign, there's no historical precedent of someone who has been so violently attacked during an election campaign, violating the rules of any Other electoral campaign.

00:38:19.000 They've actually started meddling with my private life.

00:38:24.000 They've said all sorts of horrible things about me, my sister, my parents.

00:38:28.000 They've even talked about my dogs.

00:38:32.000 So, you know, the gutter of the universe was...

00:38:38.000 in the media in Argentina, which were subservient to two huge party structures in order to destroy an individual.

00:38:50.000 But that strength that I had as a goalkeeper helped me stand in addition to the spiritual support I got from my sister and my rabbi, Axel Varnish, That's one thing.

00:39:09.000 On the other hand, another even darker part of my life, I remember the fact that I was a rock and roll band singer.

00:39:20.000 It was a Rolling Stones tribute band and basically we used to cover Rolling Stones songs.

00:39:35.000 We did things that looked like songs.

00:39:40.000 Being very generous.

00:39:44.000 But with so much love and fondness for the Rolling Stones I have, I thought it would be best to give up the damage to a band I love so dearly.

00:39:53.000 So, there's that acting streak that goes into the mix.

00:40:04.000 And I also had a play, a part in a play, it was called Millet's Office, Doctor's Office.

00:40:12.000 It was basically a talk about economics and the format was a therapy session.

00:40:18.000 And I think that blend of elements in a specific situation in a country made it possible for

00:40:34.000 someone like me to become popular.

00:40:38.000 In fact, if you go over my lectures before going into politics, I used to go in as if it was a rock concert.

00:40:53.000 It was really interesting because I would start by thanking the audience, saying thank you very much for so many type 2 errors.

00:41:07.000 Type 1 errors are when you do everything right and things go wrong, and type 2 errors when you do everything wrong and things work out well.

00:41:16.000 So being an economist is not very popular.

00:41:22.000 Being a mathematical economist, even less so.

00:41:24.000 Being a specialist on economic growth, even less in a country that was suffering from the Keynesian illness and liberal in a left-wing country.

00:41:39.000 Libertarian in a left-wing country.

00:41:41.000 So, people should have actually hated me and the error was so great that they made me president.

00:41:47.000 We'll get to more on this in just one moment.

00:41:49.000 First, let's be real.

00:41:51.000 There are some people who pretend that cauliflower crust pizza is like actual pizza.

00:41:55.000 It is not.

00:41:56.000 That's nonsense.

00:41:57.000 I'm not going to eat that.

00:41:58.000 So that means I'm not getting enough veggies.

00:42:00.000 Well, good news!

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00:42:28.000 I'm traveling a lot recently.

00:42:29.000 Pretty busy.

00:42:29.000 I used to get sick from that sort of stuff.

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00:42:32.000 Go to balanceofnature.com, use promo code SHAPIRO, get 35% off your first set of fruits and veggies, plus an additional $10 off every additional set that you buy.

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00:42:47.000 Get 35% off that first set.

00:42:49.000 So how has it been moving from the world of commentary to the world of politics?

00:42:53.000 Obviously, I'm in commentary here in the United States.

00:42:56.000 I speak to legislators all the time about the differences between being able to say all the things you want to say and be a purist and the world of politics where you have to sometimes cut the best deal you can working within the system.

00:43:08.000 How's that been for you personally?

00:43:10.000 How difficult has the transition from, say, commentary to being the president of a country been?

00:43:17.000 Not difficult at all.

00:43:18.000 Not one bit.

00:43:20.000 Because just as I went to the talk shows, I kept on teaching at uni and I used to give

00:43:34.000 lectures in very large theaters.

00:43:42.000 And my sister and I realized that we were becoming more popular because we wouldn't

00:43:48.000 only sell out in very large theaters in Argentina, but also abroad.

00:43:53.000 So the culture battle was working very well.

00:44:00.000 And the TV media also helped me publicize, advertise my work, and that led to more lectures and to me making more money.

00:44:12.000 But when Alberto Fernández took office as president, Among his advisors, a congressman, Leandro Santoro, who is in the position nowadays, went on TV trying to get me censored.

00:44:34.000 And libertarians started experiencing censorship.

00:44:38.000 They were suddenly no longer being invited to the programs.

00:44:41.000 And instead of having 20 libertarians in the media, the number It shrank significantly, I think, with any luck.

00:44:49.000 There were five left of us, and that was by a long stretch.

00:44:52.000 And the only thing that kept me going was actually the viewing figures.

00:44:57.000 as people kept watching me and when we saw how censorship was spreading very much, my

00:45:08.000 sister and I thought that that could affect our ability to generate income.

00:45:15.000 So, faced with that situation, we said, OK.

00:45:19.000 We need to counter or fight with these people where it hurts them.

00:45:25.000 And we decided to get into politics, which was also very complicated.

00:45:28.000 Because first they said we wouldn't be able to put together a party, which we did do.

00:45:34.000 Then they said that we wouldn't be able to make it past the open primaries, that we wouldn't get even 2% of the vote.

00:45:42.000 Then they said that we were going to lose Against blank votes.

00:45:47.000 Then they said that we were going to lose to the left wing by a huge margin and we ended up getting 17% of the votes.

00:45:55.000 First in the city of Buenos Aires.

00:46:04.000 And when we took office, they also treated us very rudely.

00:46:09.000 On the Congress TV channel, a journalist that I knew from the A24 TV channel very aggressively said to me, But listen, what could you possibly do if you're just going to be two representatives, two members of Congress out of 257?

00:46:30.000 And I answered, quoting Maccabees 3.19, which says that victory in battle does not depend on the size of the army, but on the strength that comes from heaven.

00:46:50.000 Thanks to a great, wonderful idea my sister had, we decided to raffle off my salary as a representative, and a million people signed up for the draw, and we had this event in the city of Mar del Plata, and over 10,000 people attended, and we then went to the city of Rosario, and we had 15,000 people there, and we then decided that that meant we had room to run for the presidency, which we did, and we had events.

00:47:26.000 We had events, I think the one in Rosario largely exceeded 100,000 people and the one

00:47:38.000 in Cordoba City was probably more than 200,000 people.

00:47:43.000 And we ended up winning against all odds.

00:47:48.000 And let me tell you a fun story.

00:47:50.000 percent and let me tell you a fun story.

00:47:55.000 We were waiting for the results and we were getting exit polls, the information from the

00:48:03.000 exit polls.

00:48:07.000 You know, when they said there was more than three or four percent of a difference, we

00:48:13.000 We just throw that away.

00:48:14.000 And it was very interesting.

00:48:17.000 Because at one point, a whole lot of friends from the Jewish community came to say hi, and there was a whole bunch of us.

00:48:30.000 We were wearing our kippahs, we were praying, and the then speaker of the lower house, Congresswoman Cecilia Moro called me and put me on the phone to the other candidate, Massa, who said he would be going on stage a few minutes later for his concession speech, admitting that we had won.

00:49:02.000 And we went like, what do you mean we've won?

00:49:06.000 And yeah, we had won.

00:49:07.000 won. So we all started to celebrate. And we then heard we had won by 12 points difference

00:49:24.000 and we are now honoring what we said during the campaign.

00:49:32.000 Because if there's one attribute I possess, it is that I say what I think and I do what I say.

00:49:40.000 And we did say we were going to do this, People are quite clear as to this.

00:49:45.000 We actually campaigned saying that we were going to adjust.

00:49:50.000 We campaigned with the good old chainsaw.

00:49:53.000 We would say afuera, out with it, and we halved the number of ministries.

00:49:58.000 So, there was a really strong afuera.

00:50:05.000 And we also said we were going to pursue a very strong adjustment and that we would suffer in the first phase.

00:50:15.000 But that we would then recover.

00:50:17.000 And all of that is happening in exactly that way.

00:50:20.000 And that's why people support us.

00:50:21.000 Because we were brave enough to tell the truth.

00:50:25.000 And that's why the political caste is at a loss.

00:50:30.000 Because they've always deceived people.

00:50:33.000 And they've always told them what they thought they wanted to hear.

00:50:35.000 And We said to the people what we had to do in order to rise up from the bottom of the pit.

00:50:47.000 And this is why I've got a feeling that Argentina's society has matured, has decided to embrace the ideas of freedom in order to finally make it.

00:50:55.000 So, I want to get your reading list.

00:50:57.000 So, who are your favorite economists?

00:51:01.000 My favorite authors are certainly Murray Newton Rothbard, Also, I feel great pleasure when I read Ludwig von Mises,

00:51:16.000 of course, Friedrich von Hayek, and then, of course, some more friendly works.

00:51:34.000 There's a Walter Block or Henry Haslick.

00:51:39.000 And if it's the Chicago line, Gary Becker, of course, Milton Friedman, Robert Lucas Jr.

00:51:46.000 or other.

00:51:50.000 Institutionalist authors like Buchanan, I'd say that would be the central core body of works.

00:52:02.000 And a bit more philosophical, there's Hoppe, Hans-Hermann Hoppe, or Ayn Rand, or Robert Nozick, and of course Spanish-speaking authors that are well-established, like Alberto Venegas Lynch, Jr., or Jesús Huerta de Soto, or Miguel Anchovastos.

00:52:25.000 President Millet, final question for you, because I know that you have to run.

00:52:28.000 You have, obviously, a very busy schedule.

00:52:30.000 The eyes of the world are on Argentina.

00:52:31.000 They're on you, because if you're able to transform Argentina, it's not just going to be a model for the rest of Latin America, which has experienced a pink wave, and many countries are moving in the wrong direction, but also for the West, because Argentina was a cautionary tale.

00:52:44.000 You could make it into an example.

00:52:46.000 The people of Argentina, by sticking with your program, can make an example of success in the face of socialism.

00:52:53.000 What is your hope for the future?

00:52:53.000 How optimistic are you?

00:53:00.000 We are convinced that in spite of the enormous efforts we are making, we will recover and

00:53:08.000 are going to lay the foundations for Argentina to be great again.

00:53:15.000 And we believe that that will be a major lesson to give up socialist ideas, or if you Like, statist ideas, to me they're the same.

00:53:30.000 Statists are socialists of a different color. 0.75

00:53:36.000 But I think the Argentine case is a case study because if in the face of such a decadent situation we manage to turn things around by embracing the ideas of freedom and if we are able to once again achieve growth we will not only have improved the lives of Argentines but also improve the lives of all of humanity.

00:54:00.000 And that is an enormous challenge for which it's worth keeping up the fight until the last drop of blood.

00:54:07.000 President Millet, it is an honor to have you.

00:54:09.000 Thank you so much for the time.

00:54:11.000 And obviously, we're hoping and davening for you.

00:54:13.000 Really appreciate it.

00:54:17.000 It's been a true pleasure for me, Ben.

00:54:19.000 Thank you very much indeed for this interview.

00:54:32.000 Associate producer is Jake Pollock.

00:54:35.000 Editing is by Jim Nickel.

00:54:36.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Corimina.

00:54:38.000 Post-production is managed by Matt Kemp.

00:54:40.000 Camera and lighting is by Zach Ginta.

00:54:42.000 Hair, makeup, and wardrobe by Fabiola Cristina.

00:54:45.000 Title graphics are by Cynthia Angulo.

00:54:47.000 Executive assistant, Kelly Carvalho.

00:54:49.000 Executive in charge of production is David Wormus.

00:54:52.000 Executive producer, Justin Siegel.

00:54:54.000 Executive producer, Jeremy Boring.

The Ben Shapiro Show - April 14, 2024

On the Front Lines of Freedom | President of Argentina, Javier Milei

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