The Ben Shapiro Show - Should Trump Let LA BURN? Plus FAKE GAVIN And Part II With Orban!

00:00:00.000 Folks, you got a ton coming up on today's show.

00:00:02.000 California Governor Gavin Newsom, he is leading the resistance and he's making dramatic speeches about it.

00:00:07.000 Plus, we discussed, should President Trump just let the city of L.A. burn?

00:00:10.000 There's kind of a case for it.

00:00:12.000 And Victor Orban stops by for part two of our interview.

00:00:14.000 But first, your dad gave you common sense, grit, and the ability to spot nonsense when you hear it.

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00:00:40.000 Well, folks, Democrats believe that they have found their point of resistance and the new leader of the resistance will be the same as the kind of old leader of the resistance, Kendall Gavin Newsom, the governor of California.

00:00:52.000 He has presided over a great fleeing from his state.

00:00:56.000 Obviously, I'm one of the people who left his state.

00:00:58.000 I'm a lifelong Angeleno.

00:01:00.000 I lived in LA for literally my entire life.

00:01:02.000 And then I took myself, my family, my parents, my company, and we all moved out of LA thanks to the governance of people like Gavin Newsom.

00:01:11.000 But now Gavin Newsom believes that he has his road to 2028 paved for him.

00:01:16.000 He believes that because obviously we have watched a spate of riots in Los Angeles.

00:01:21.000 First, we were told by the media the riots didn't exist.

00:01:24.000 As it turns out, the riots very much do exist, which we'll get to in a moment.

00:01:27.000 But Gavin Newsom is using President Trump's unleashing of federal forces to essentially help protect ICE agents in doing their job as an excuse to claim that he is now standing up to authoritarianism in the United States of America.

00:01:41.000 And so he delivered another one of his very overdramatic, ridiculous speeches last night.

00:01:47.000 This was supposed to be the end of Independence Day, and he's Bill Pullman.

00:01:51.000 Well, it didn't go great.

00:01:52.000 He started off by having massive audio issues right at the top.

00:01:55.000 Here's what that looked like.

00:02:00.000 Well, you can see that he's talking and nothing is coming out, which actually is an improvement because when he talks and sound does come out, the sound is usually stupid.

00:02:07.000 But here he was attempting to talk.

00:02:09.000 It didn't work particularly well.

00:02:10.000 But then, finally, he got to his point.

00:02:12.000 And his point is that we must resist.

00:02:15.000 We must resist the federal encroachments.

00:02:17.000 Now, remember, what are the federal encroachments?

00:02:19.000 ICE agents were sent to Los Angeles to do federal immigration raids, to pick up illegal immigrants and to deport them.

00:02:26.000 That is what federal law says you are supposed to do.

00:02:28.000 Now, we can get into the politics of who should be deported and why and how and where in a moment, but it is certainly within the purview of ICE to actually pick up illegal immigrants and then to process them for deportation.

00:02:40.000 That is all well within the remit of the federal government.

00:02:42.000 And then riots began, and the president was not willing to wait for Gavin Newsom to allow that to continue to fester.

00:02:49.000 So instead, he activated the National Guard and sent them there in a support role for ICE.

00:02:54.000 And he also activated some Marines in a support role for the National Guard.

00:02:58.000 According to Gavin Newsom, all of this amounts to an extra-constitutional coup, the beginning of a monarchic America in which Hitlerian Donald Trump is unleashing federal forces in order to take full control of the American body politic.

00:03:11.000 Here is Gavin Newsom almost tearing up.

00:03:14.000 And again, this guy is not Olivier.

00:03:16.000 Like, he is not a good actor.

00:03:18.000 And so all of this comes off incredibly fake.

00:03:21.000 This moment, we all need to stand up and be held to account a higher level of accountability.

00:03:27.000 If you exercise your First Amendment rights, please, please do it peacefully.

00:03:32.000 I know many of you are feeling deep anxiety, stress, and fear, but I want you to know that you are the antidote to that fear and that anxiety.

00:03:42.000 What Donald Trump wants most is your fealty, your silence to be complicit in this moment.

00:03:49.000 Do not give in to him.

00:03:53.000 What he wants most is your fealty and your silence.

00:03:56.000 I think what President Trump would like is for you to stop burning Waymos. 1.00

00:04:00.000 And that's the thing that President Trump would like the most, actually.

00:04:04.000 Now, a judge did rule yesterday that Gavin Newsom, he had attempted to stop via an injunctive relief lawsuit what President Trump is trying to do in Los Angeles.

00:04:14.000 And the judge was like, nah, he has the legal ability to do this.

00:04:17.000 You can't get in the way of that.

00:04:18.000 But listen, what Gavin Newsom wants most of all is to run for president in 2028.

00:04:22.000 And the media are helping him out.

00:04:23.000 The Washington Post has an entire piece titled, Trump's actions echo authoritarian regimes.

00:04:28.000 Newsom in interview.

00:04:30.000 Wow.

00:04:31.000 Wow.

00:04:32.000 Well, according to the Washington Post, that's an American president in 2025 threatening a political opponent who happens to be a sitting governor.

00:04:39.000 That's not with precedent in modern times.

00:04:40.000 That's what we see around the globe in authoritarian regimes.

00:04:44.000 That's because President Trump effectively joked about arresting Gavin Newsom because Tom Homan, his border czar, had said that if Gavin Newsom violates federal law, Then he will be subject to federal law, just like every other citizen.

00:04:53.000 And again, this does not ring true, given the fact that Democrats tried to imprison President Trump multiple times over the course of the last two years.

00:05:01.000 So what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

00:05:03.000 If you are violating the law, then the law should apply to you.

00:05:06.000 And again, there is no ongoing effort to jail Gavin Newsom, despite the fact that he is, in fact, a horrible governor.

00:05:12.000 He has every right to be a horrible government.

00:05:13.000 just can't violate federal law.

00:05:15.000 According to the Washington Post, Newsom...

00:05:27.000 Newsom has tried all methods.

00:05:28.000 He was the face of the resistance in the first term and a welcoming greeter during Trump's initial visit to California in his second term.

00:05:34.000 All the while, he continued suing Trump while keeping up a cordial back-channel relationship.

00:05:38.000 On Monday, he sounded like he was the end with Trump, calling him unrestrained and unhinged.

00:05:43.000 He said on Monday, Trump is a very different president than his first foray in office.

00:05:47.000 You've seen that as to how it relates to how he has completely obliterated any oversight from Congress, how he seeks to obliterate oversight from the judicial branch by threatening impeachment of judges and running up to the edge as it relates to court orders.

00:05:58.000 So again, this is all about Gavin Newsom running for president in 2028.

00:06:02.000 And what he is hoping is that becoming the face of a resistance to Trump is going to jog him to victory in Democratic primaries.

00:06:10.000 Now, meanwhile, it is hilarious because the Democrats keep claiming several things at once.

00:06:17.000 There are no riots.

00:06:18.000 Two, there are riots and they're good.

00:06:20.000 Three, there are riots and they're bad, but President Trump should ignore them.

00:06:23.000 All three of those things are being claimed at once.

00:06:25.000 First, you heard members of the media suggesting there weren't any riots.

00:06:27.000 It was just a little peaceful car burning.

00:06:29.000 I mean, so a few cars got burned.

00:06:31.000 So the Waymos had to flee.

00:06:32.000 The elves had to leave Middle Earth.

00:06:34.000 So really, is that such a big deal?

00:06:36.000 Then you got to, well, there are riots, but they're good.

00:06:39.000 It's part of the resistance, you see.

00:06:41.000 You need the resistance.

00:06:42.000 The resistance is positive.

00:06:49.000 That is the position that has now been taken by the mayor of Los Angeles, Karen Bass.

00:06:53.000 So hilariously, last night she had to announce a curfew in downtown LA.

00:06:56.000 So I have a question.

00:06:57.000 If there was no unrest, why do you need a curfew?

00:06:59.000 They kept saying there was no big deal in LA, so why are you declaring a curfew in downtown LA?

00:07:03.000 I wanted to let the city know that I have declared a local emergency and issued a curfew for downtown Los Angeles to stop the vandalism, to stop the looting.

00:07:17.000 Many businesses have now been affected by or vandalized.

00:07:22.000 Last night there were 23 businesses that were looted and I think that if you drive through Downtown LA, the graffiti is everywhere and has caused significant damages to businesses and a number of properties.

00:07:38.000 So my message to you is, if you do not live or work in downtown LA, avoid the area.

00:07:45.000 Law enforcement will arrest individuals who break the curfew, and you will be prosecuted.

00:07:51.000 I will consult with elected leaders and law enforcement officials tomorrow on the continuation of the curfew, but we certainly expect for it to last for several days.

00:08:00.000 You look and look at the map, and you can see that the city of Los Angeles is a massive area, 502 square miles.

00:08:09.000 The area of downtown where the curfew will take place is one square mile.

00:08:15.000 I think it is important to point this out, not to minimize the vandalism and violence that has taken place there.

00:08:21.000 It has been significant, but it is extremely important to know that what is happening in this one square mile is not affecting the cities.

00:08:31.000 Peace.

00:08:33.000 Okay, so again, she's making several of these arguments at once.

00:08:35.000 One, the riots are happening and they're bad.

00:08:38.000 Two, don't worry, the LAPD is taking care of it.

00:08:40.000 By the way, the LAPD has been told to stand down, basically.

00:08:43.000 I know this from people in the LAPD.

00:08:45.000 The LAPD for years has been told to allow this sort of stuff to happen.

00:08:48.000 LAPD officers, when they join up, they want to stop crime and they've been told actively by the politicians in the city not to stop crime, not to get in the way of the crime.

00:08:56.000 And then when things go wrong, then all of a sudden it's like, well, the cops will handle it.

00:08:59.000 It's one of the major problems with the city of Los Angeles, which is, by the statistics, one of the least staffed police forces in America.

00:09:08.000 Just on a population to police force level, incredibly understaffed police force, and they are told not to do.

00:09:15.000 Karen Bass admitted that the entire city is covered in graffiti, so much so that she's concerned that they may not be able to actually have the World Cup in L.A. because of the levels of damage that have occurred.

00:09:26.000 Especially of the graffiti that is just blanketing a number of blocks has been extensive.

00:09:34.000 We are one year away from the World Cup.

00:09:37.000 This is about beautifying our city and bringing our city together.

00:09:40.000 And so I am calling on business leaders, community leaders, faith leaders to come together downtown in the next few days to talk about how we are going to clean up the city.

00:09:52.000 Obviously, city workers are already out there removing the graffiti, but this is so extensive it's going to take community-wide involvement.

00:10:00.000 We had launched a program called Shine LA a couple of months ago in preparation for the World Cup, We need people from all over the city to come to downtown and to help with this effort.

00:10:17.000 So things are going amazingly well in LA.

00:10:19.000 Hilariously.

00:10:20.000 I keep saying hilariously because it actually is kind of funny.

00:10:23.000 Like in a dark way, it is very, very funny.

00:10:25.000 That the worst Democrats run a place, and then the more it requires federal intervention, the more the person who ran the place is deemed a hero by the media.

00:10:33.000 So if you're a horrible mayor of L.A. and you help run the place into the ground, so much so that federal troops have to be called in to help stop rioting, and then you yell at the president, this makes you a hero.

00:10:44.000 The headline from the New York Times, quote, Karen Bass is getting a second chance to lead her city through a crisis.

00:10:49.000 Ms. Bass struggled amid criticism of her initial response to the L.A. fires in January.

00:10:53.000 The opposition over President Trump's immigration raids have offered her an opportunity.

00:10:57.000 You see, she's run the city like complete crap, but she now has an opportunity to be a resistance hero because she gets to yell at President Trump. 0.99

00:11:04.000 And as we all know, that is the most important thing, is yelling at President Trump.

00:11:08.000 And every Democrat knows this, which is why they have universally decided that the problem in California is not extraordinarily high rates of illegal immigration.

00:11:16.000 It is not the massive draw on public services represented.

00:11:18.000 By illegal immigrants. 0.93

00:11:20.000 It is not lack of law and order.

00:11:22.000 It is not understaffing of the police department.

00:11:24.000 It is not riots in downtown or blanketing of the entire county in graffiti.

00:11:28.000 It is none of those things.

00:11:29.000 The problem, of course, is President Trump.

00:11:30.000 Why?

00:11:31.000 Because that's how you get the clicks if you are in the Democratic Party.

00:11:34.000 Coming up on the show, we'll get to my reasons why I think that maybe President Trump should just let L.A. burn first.

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00:13:49.000 Senator Adam Schiff, who made his career saying false things about President Trump.

00:13:52.000 Senator Schiff used to be Congressman Schiff and he spent And it's this deliberate kind of provocation.

00:14:20.000 That is only escalating the situation.

00:14:22.000 But the president doesn't care about making it worse.

00:14:25.000 He's more than happy to see violent protests.

00:14:28.000 It gives him something to talk about, something other than his big ugly bill that's going to blow a hole in the deficit and take away people's health care.

00:14:36.000 So for him, this is a wonderful distraction.

00:14:41.000 It's a wonderful distraction for him.

00:14:43.000 So again, the problem isn't with governance in California, which has created this morass.

00:14:47.000 The problem is President Trump reacting to the morass.

00:14:50.000 The California Attorney General, Rob Bonta, who presides over a state that actively attempts to impede federal law enforcement in doing its job.

00:14:57.000 We'll get to that in a moment.

00:14:58.000 He says this is all manufactured controversy.

00:15:00.000 Why is anyone even worried?

00:15:01.000 What's the big deal?

00:15:03.000 Yeah, you know, this is a manufactured crisis and artificial controversy, and that's what the president wants.

00:15:09.000 Unfortunately, he wants the confusion.

00:15:10.000 He wants the chaos.

00:15:12.000 It seems that he wants things to explode because that will give him the excuse that he wants to try to seize more power, which is his MO.

00:15:20.000 Besides having a very complicated relationship with the truth and being a hypocrite, he is on an ongoing mission to seize more power that is not his.

00:15:32.000 Yes, it is definitely seizing more power to defend ice installations in Los Angeles.

00:15:38.000 You can sense it.

00:15:39.000 You go to LA right now, I'm sure that it absolutely feels like Red Dawn.

00:15:44.000 It's just the invading forces of the federal government.

00:15:47.000 Can I just point out that the population of Los Angeles is 3.8 million people?

00:15:54.000 That is just the city.

00:15:56.000 It's 3.8 million people.

00:15:57.000 The president has deployed 2,000 National Guard members to LA.

00:16:03.000 I'm just going to point out 2,000 National Guard members, 4 million people living Yeah, I'm sorry, it doesn't sound like a full-scale invasion to me.

00:16:14.000 Weird.

00:16:15.000 So, how prevalent is illegal immigration in California?

00:16:18.000 I asked our sponsors over at Perplexity.

00:16:20.000 How many illegal immigrants live in LA, in LA County, in California?

00:16:23.000 And what percentage of the total Hispanic population of California is illegal immigrant population?

00:16:30.000 And here's what Perplexity says.

00:16:31.000 LA City is home to nearly 900,000 undocumented immigrants based on a 2020 study by USC.

00:16:38.000 LA County, Which encompasses the city and the surrounding areas, has between 810 and 830,000 undocumented immigrants.

00:16:46.000 California statewide has somewhere between 1.8 million and 2.6 million illegal immigrants.

00:16:53.000 And apparently, according to Perplexity, nearly 30% of all Latinos in California are either undocumented themselves or live with somebody who is undocumented.

00:17:03.000 The way that USC actually determined that, I asked again Perplexity for the answer.

00:17:07.000 is what they call the residual method.

00:17:09.000 Apparently, that involves calculating the total foreign-born population in the area, subtracting the number of foreign-born individuals who are legal permanent residents, refugees, or have other legal authorization to live or work in the United States.

00:17:20.000 And then the difference, a residual, is an estimate of the illegal immigrant population.

00:17:24.000 Anyway, the LA County Board of Supervisors member, Lindsay Horvath, also says that the real problem here is, again, not failure to enforce the law.

00:17:31.000 The real problem is the enforcement of the law.

00:17:33.000 If you enforce the law, clearly that's provocative.

00:17:35.000 The best way to avoid provoking people is to let them run wild in the city of Los Angeles and to allow illegal immigration to just be a thing.

00:17:44.000 Thank you.

00:17:50.000 That is what is happening.

00:17:51.000 What is escalating this situation is the increased presence, and it's happening around the federal building, and it's intended to intimidate, it's intended to be a scare tactic, and it's intended to escalate instead of calm down what's happening on our streets.

00:18:06.000 Again, the problem is Trump.

00:18:07.000 Representative Nancy Pelosi, former Speaker of the House, she says the same thing.

00:18:10.000 She actually downplayed much of what was going on in the street.

00:18:12.000 She said, you know what?

00:18:13.000 It could be anarchism or it could just be youthful exuberance.

00:18:17.000 It could just be the exuberance.

00:18:18.000 Here she was.

00:18:20.000 When there is a gathering, a large gathering of people, the anarchists see it as an opportunity and they move in.

00:18:29.000 So always have to be careful whether you see a burned car or a broken window or whatever it is.

00:18:34.000 It may be the exuberance of the moment, but it may be the anarchist setting in.

00:18:42.000 So it could be a few things, just the exuberance.

00:18:45.000 Just exuberance, you know, when you just get, you and your friends, you know, something good happens.

00:18:50.000 Somebody graduates from college, and, you know, you just get exuberant.

00:18:54.000 And so you set some Waymos on fire.

00:18:55.000 You call the Waymo, you grab a Molotov cocktail, and you set it on fire.

00:18:58.000 Because why the hell not?

00:18:59.000 That's what exuberance is all about.

00:19:01.000 Or it could be anarchism.

00:19:03.000 But maybe it's exuberance, says Nancy Pelosi.

00:19:05.000 Representative Maxine Waters, who again has had very little problem with violence in the city of Los Angeles, says, listen, there's no problem here.

00:19:10.000 Nobody got shot.

00:19:11.000 Nobody got killed.

00:19:12.000 So what's the big deal if a bunch of businesses get set on fire or looted or whatever?

00:19:16.000 Who cares?

00:19:16.000 Whatever.

00:19:18.000 And even those who were out of step with what we are advocating, peaceful protest.

00:19:25.000 Did not create any violence.

00:19:27.000 Nobody was shot.

00:19:28.000 Nobody was killed.

00:19:29.000 Get it in your head.

00:19:30.000 And so when martial law is called, what are you going to say?

00:19:34.000 I missed the point.

00:19:35.000 Don't miss the point, you all.

00:19:37.000 Don't think that somehow because they called out the National Guard, there was violence.

00:19:43.000 There was no violence.

00:19:46.000 No violence.

00:19:47.000 All the video that you've been seeing of cars burning and people driving around the wreckage with Mexican flags, all of that is no violence, obviously.

00:19:54.000 Clearly.

00:19:56.000 Meanwhile, Representative Norma Torres of California, she says the big thing here is that ICE has to retreat.

00:20:00.000 ICE has to be thrown out of the city.

00:20:03.000 They have not had a warrant.

00:20:05.000 They are not asking for specific names.

00:20:09.000 They are simply going after people because of the way they look.

00:20:14.000 And this must stop.

00:20:15.000 The president must call back.

00:20:19.000 These ICE agents, they must retreat in order for the locals to be given the opportunity to restore order because that is what we are demanding right now.

00:20:33.000 Representative Judy Chu of California.

00:20:35.000 Again, the constant Democratic drumbeat here is that the problem is not violation of law.

00:20:39.000 The problem is enforcement of law.

00:20:41.000 Law enforcement is the problem.

00:20:42.000 Violation of law is the norm.

00:20:43.000 His representative, Judy Chu, saying that President Trump is doing something unprecedented and dangerous and authoritarian.

00:20:56.000 The protests were inevitable.

00:20:58.000 And now because the protests are happening, Trump sent in the National Guard without the governor's approval.

00:21:04.000 On top of that, he's sending in the Marines and threatening to arrest a sitting governor.

00:21:11.000 This is unprecedented, dangerous, and authoritarian.

00:21:17.000 And then finally, we reach the culmination of this particular line of argument.

00:21:20.000 You have the Congressional Black Caucus Chair Yvette Clark, Representative from New York, saying what you know Democrats have wanted all along, all along since 2016.

00:21:28.000 They want to impeach him.

00:21:31.000 Do these things rise to the level of impeachment?

00:21:34.000 Are these impeachable events?

00:21:35.000 Well, you know, I do.

00:21:38.000 I believe it is.

00:21:39.000 I definitely believe it is.

00:21:41.000 But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

00:21:47.000 Again, impeachment.

00:21:48.000 This is where they are going.

00:21:49.000 And now, you can expect that over the course of the next few days, there will be protests spreading nationwide.

00:21:55.000 According to NBC News, activists gathered in New York, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, and elsewhere, rebuking the Trump administration's tough stance against migrants and its aggressive roundup efforts.

00:22:04.000 And it's the same group of people.

00:22:05.000 It's people waving Mexican flags and also wearing keffias and Palestinian flags and all the rest of it.

00:22:10.000 It is all the scavengers getting together to yell at the system.

00:22:14.000 Obviously.

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00:22:23.000 It's a rallying cry against the gigantic movement of scavengers currently poisoning our culture, tearing apart our civilization.

00:22:30.000 Again, that's dailywire.com slash shop for signed copies of the brand new book, Lions and Scavengers.

00:22:34.000 And the Trump administration, for its part, is saying, listen, we are going to enforce the law.

00:22:38.000 And if you yell at us, Well, you can yell at us.

00:22:41.000 That's your right.

00:22:41.000 But if you start throwing bricks at us, you are going to get arrested.

00:22:44.000 Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense, was testifying before Congress yesterday.

00:22:47.000 He said, listen, ICE has the right to perform an operation in California.

00:22:49.000 It is a federal body.

00:22:51.000 It has the ability to enforce federal law.

00:22:54.000 So in Los Angeles, we believe that ICE, which is a federal law enforcement agency, has the right to safely conduct operations in any state and any jurisdiction in the country.

00:23:06.000 especially after 21 million illegals have crossed our border under the previous administration.

00:23:12.000 So, again, I think that is a fairly commonsensical idea is that ICE has the capacity to do.

00:23:20.000 So right now, the question is, who's grabbing that middle of the American popular imagination?

00:23:24.000 Is it the Republicans who say, listen, ICE gets to deport illegal immigrants?

00:23:28.000 And if you start burning cars, then we're going to send the National Guard.

00:23:31.000 Or is it the Democrats are like, ah, a few burning cars here and there.

00:23:34.000 What's the big deal?

00:23:34.000 ICE needs to be forcibly removed from the body politic.

00:23:38.000 Who do you think wins that debate? 0.99

00:23:40.000 President Trump, of course, is going hard on this.

00:23:43.000 He is suggesting that the people who are rioting are paid insurrectionists.

00:23:47.000 Some of them certainly are.

00:23:48.000 And he said, listen, if I have to invoke the Insurrection Act, which is not done as of yet, the Insurrection Act would essentially allow federal troops to engage in civilian law efforts as opposed to support roles.

00:24:00.000 He says if I have to do it, I will.

00:24:03.000 We have some bad people.

00:24:05.000 We have people that look in your face and they spit right in your face. 1.00

00:24:08.000 They're animals.

00:24:09.000 And these are paid insurrectionists.

00:24:11.000 These are paid troublemakers.

00:24:12.000 They're agitators.

00:24:14.000 They're paid.

00:24:15.000 Do you think somebody walks up to a curb and starts hammering pieces out, has all the equipment necessary, and starts handing it out to people to use as a weapon?

00:24:26.000 These are paid.

00:24:28.000 Insurrectionists or agitators or troublemakers.

00:24:31.000 You can call it whatever you want.

00:24:33.000 Invoke the Insurrection Act to deal with the situation in California.

00:24:37.000 If there's an insurrection, I would certainly invoke it.

00:24:40.000 We'll see.

00:24:41.000 But I can tell you, last night was terrible.

00:24:46.000 This is something Senator Tom Cotton has been calling for for a while.

00:24:49.000 We had him on as a guest just a couple of days ago about all of this.

00:24:53.000 He has a piece in the Wall Street Journal reiterating the point he made back in 2020 during the BLM riots.

00:24:58.000 He says, as always, local police are the first line of defense.

00:25:00.000 But when the police can't restore order or aren't allowed to by Democratic mayors, the National Guard must be called out.

00:25:05.000 We reached this point in Los Angeles where the police chief has said that the disgusting violence has overwhelmed his forces, adding, quote, there's no limit to what they're doing to our officers, and we've seen violence at a level that disgusts every good person.

00:25:15.000 Mr. Newsom, says Senator Cotton, incompetent and ideological all at once, refused to mobilize the National Guard, leaving Mr. Trump little choice, but to federalize the California Guard to protect federal law enforcement agents and restore order.

00:25:26.000 He has unquestioned legal authority to do so, plus many precedents.

00:25:29.000 In my own state, a Democratic governor mobilized the Arkansas Guard to obstruct the desegregation of Little Rock Central High School in 1957.

00:25:35.000 Finally, if the Guard alone can't restore order and protect federal officers and property, And there is a legal basis to do all of this.

00:25:48.000 President Trump makes the point that if the federal government did not get involved, L.A. would continue to burn.

00:25:53.000 Here he was yesterday, the president.

00:25:55.000 If we didn't get involved, right now, Los Angeles would be burning, just like it was burning a number of months ago with all the houses that were lost.

00:26:05.000 Los Angeles right now would be on fire.

00:26:07.000 And we have it in great shape.

00:26:09.000 We're not playing around.

00:26:13.000 Now, we should take a look at what the polling says about this.

00:26:17.000 Democrats seem to believe that this is a winning issue for them.

00:26:19.000 And this is why Gavin Newsom is attempting to turn himself It was a brand new Insider Advantage poll from yesterday.

00:26:27.000 Do you approve President Trump's National Guard deployment?

00:26:30.000 Yes.

00:26:32.000 59%.

00:26:32.000 No.

00:26:34.000 39%.

00:26:35.000 That is a plus 20. You very rarely get a plus 20 on a controversial issue in the United States.

00:26:40.000 But what that suggests is this is not a particularly controversial issue.

00:26:43.000 That actually, the American people are very much fine with sending in the National Guard to restore order.

00:26:48.000 We are done with riots in this country.

00:26:49.000 We do not like them.

00:26:50.000 We do not want them.

00:26:51.000 And we are not going to stand by and watch while they are performed.

00:26:55.000 Now, what's amazing about all this, truly, what's amazing about all of this is that the Democratic Party, they theoretically don't have to play it this way.

00:27:03.000 Let's assume for a second that you are a strategist for the Democrats.

00:27:06.000 I know, I know.

00:27:07.000 But let's assume.

00:27:07.000 Let's assume you're a strategist for the failing and flailing Democratic Party.

00:27:11.000 And you had the information that Stephen Miller and the Trump administration were sending ICE agents out to simply raid local parking lots at the Home Depot.

00:27:20.000 You have a few choices what to do.

00:27:22.000 One is, you can wink and nod at rioters, which is what Democrats are doing right now while blaming President Trump.

00:27:27.000 Number two is, you could compile lists of the people who are being arraigned, who are being brought up for deportation, and you could find the most sympathetic cases, and then you could say that the Trump administration is exceeding its mandate, that when it comes to immigration, There are more popular aspects of immigration enforcement and less popular aspects of immigration enforcement.

00:27:47.000 Very popular.

00:27:48.000 Shut the southern border, right?

00:27:49.000 The Democrats can't even say that.

00:27:51.000 Trump has done that successfully.

00:27:52.000 They should just say that.

00:27:54.000 If you're strategizing for the Democrats, what you would say is, good for President Trump for shutting the southern border.

00:27:59.000 You cannot allow free flow of migration across America's southern border.

00:28:03.000 Unvetted.

00:28:05.000 Unhindered.

00:28:05.000 You can't do that.

00:28:06.000 It's wrong, and President Trump is right to stop that.

00:28:09.000 When it comes to deportation of people in the United States, we have to first target. 0.91

00:28:12.000 Criminal illegal immigrants, not just random grandma at the flea market. 0.98

00:28:18.000 That's the case the Democrats should be making, and they would have some polling data to at least support that, right?

00:28:22.000 They could trot out some sympathetic stories about innocent people who are illegal immigrants, and sure, they technically can be deported, but at the same time, do you really want ICE agents all over the United States deporting 20 million people?

00:28:34.000 What the polling suggests on this is that the American people are a little more divided on this.

00:28:39.000 Still to come on the show, why I think that perhaps President Trump should just let LA burn, if that's what they're asking for.

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00:30:48.000 Pew polling back from March, late March, suggests 16% say none.

00:30:58.000 So Democrats have taken the none position, which is a 16% position, which is insane.

00:31:02.000 Where they really should be, if they were smart, but they are not, is in the some category, which is where 51% of Americans are.

00:31:09.000 And how does that break down?

00:31:11.000 Well, 97% of Americans believe that if you commit a violent crime, you should be deported.

00:31:15.000 52% believe that if you commit a non-violent crime, you should be deported.

00:31:19.000 44% believe that if you arrived in the last four years, you should be deported.

00:31:23.000 But only 15% of that 51% believe that if you have a job, you should be deported.

00:31:29.000 That if your parents of children born in the United States, that if you came here and your kid's now an American citizen, you should be deported.

00:31:39.000 Only 9% believe that people who came as children should be deported.

00:31:41.000 Right.

00:31:42.000 So if you're a smart Democrat, what you would do is find the categories of people who most And you would focus in on the Trump administration deporting those people.

00:31:52.000 By the way, the Trump administration knows this, which is why they constantly couch their immigration efforts as targeting criminal illegal immigration.

00:32:00.000 But Democrats are apparently too stupid and too doctrinaire for any of that.

00:32:04.000 Okay, now, what should be done here long term?

00:32:07.000 That's really the question.

00:32:08.000 Because these riots may well continue.

00:32:11.000 Los Angeles may continue to burn.

00:32:13.000 And here is my perspective on this issue.

00:32:16.000 Democrats have made clear they do not want federal law enforcement in there.

00:32:20.000 They don't want federal law enforcement there to help ICE effectuate its arrests.

00:32:24.000 They do not want federal law enforcement involved in any real way and even protecting property in the city of Los Angeles.

00:32:32.000 They want the federal government completely out.

00:32:35.000 The voters of California have made this clear because they keep electing Democrats over and over and over again.

00:32:40.000 And so my...

00:33:01.000 If they want it, if they want it to burn, let them have it.

00:33:04.000 Let them do the thing.

00:33:05.000 Because what that will mean is a continued out-migration of people who pay taxes.

00:33:09.000 A continued out-migration of people who own businesses.

00:33:12.000 A continued movement from Silicon Valley to Austin, Texas.

00:33:14.000 A continued movement from LA to Florida and Tennessee.

00:33:17.000 A continued movement.

00:33:19.000 And what should be done about illegal immigration?

00:33:21.000 Well, the states that actually don't want illegal immigrants to live there will work hand in glove with the Trump administration to deport as many people as possible.

00:33:28.000 And that will push illegal immigrants to leave red states and then move to blue states. 0.75

00:33:33.000 It turns out that one of the single most effective political tactics of my lifetime.

00:33:39.000 Was Republican governors like Ron DeSantis in Florida and Greg Abbott in Texas saying that if Joe Biden was going to leave the border open, they were just going to give bus tickets to illegal immigrants to blue areas like Chicago and New York.

00:33:49.000 Because it demonstrated that when blue states come down to it, they don't want illegal immigrants there either.

00:33:55.000 But make Democrats live by their own standards.

00:33:58.000 Make Democrats eat the cost.

00:34:00.000 If they want it this way, then let them have it.

00:34:03.000 Let them do it.

00:34:04.000 President Trump's already done his job in shutting the southern border.

00:34:07.000 And he should continue to do his job.

00:34:09.000 In deporting criminal illegal immigrants or victimizing American citizens. 0.81

00:34:12.000 When it comes to states that have decided that they wish to bankrupt themselves on the back of illegal immigration, maybe President Trump should just let them do it.

00:34:20.000 And here are five reasons why.

00:34:22.000 Number one, they voted for this, okay?

00:34:24.000 California voted for this.

00:34:26.000 California SB 54 stops state and local law enforcement from assisting federal law enforcement.

00:34:31.000 It includes banning cops from asking about immigration status, holding illegal immigrants for the feds after they've been arrested.

00:34:37.000 And sharing non-public personal information with ICE.

00:34:40.000 The Trust Act in California, which again is law, requires local law enforcement ask for judicial warrants before even complying with ICE detainer requests.

00:34:47.000 So you have a in jail and that person's an illegal immigrant and ICE puts out a detainer request.

00:34:53.000 If you don't have a judicial warrant, then California will not allow you to comply with the detainer request.

00:34:59.000 California has proposed bills to prevent employers from even allowing ICE access to workplaces.

00:35:05.000 In violation of federal law, by the way, Or employee records without a court order.

00:35:10.000 Landlords are not allowed to ask about immigration status in California.

00:35:14.000 California provides driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

00:35:16.000 Medi-Cal, which is essentially Medicaid for California citizens, but also for illegal immigrants.

00:35:21.000 California earned income tax credits.

00:35:24.000 So you get like actual checks from the government in California as an illegal immigrant.

00:35:28.000 If you have kids, free public education for kids and in-state tuition for college.

00:35:32.000 LA has its own sanctuary city ordinances.

00:35:35.000 That prohibit the use of any city resources whatsoever for federal immigration enforcement or cooperation with ICE.

00:35:43.000 The city of Los Angeles treats schools, hospitals, and courthouses as quote-unquote safe spaces to prohibit immigration enforcement.

00:35:49.000 They voted for this.

00:35:51.000 This is what they want, so let them have it.

00:35:54.000 H.L. Mencken once suggested about democracy, that democracy is the theory that the people should get what they want good and hard.

00:36:00.000 That is not wrong.

00:36:01.000 California should just be California.

00:36:03.000 And there are a bunch of reasons for this, including, by the way, the fact that, generally speaking, states should be allowed to be states.

00:36:10.000 Truly, the federal government controls immigration policy at the border.

00:36:14.000 And President Trump is doing that.

00:36:15.000 And the federal government does have an obligation to deport criminal illegal immigrants. 0.56

00:36:19.000 You can say they have a broader obligation to deport all illegal immigrants, but that's never really been a realistic possibility here.

00:36:25.000 And everybody who watches, to deport 20 million illegal immigrants is going to cost you by the best. 0.90

00:36:34.000 Is that going to be something that any administration is going to undertake?

00:36:38.000 I highly doubt it.

00:36:40.000 And you know this, because President Trump wasn't unleashing tens of thousands of ICE agents in California.

00:36:45.000 He was unleashing, like, small coteries of 100 ICE agents in California to go pick up some people.

00:36:50.000 That's what the immigration raids were.

00:36:53.000 The federal government should, of course, try to enforce federal law, but it's not up to the federal government to make states run properly.

00:36:59.000 And in fact, When the federal government under Joe Biden was attempting to get states to stop enforcing immigration law, that was bad too.

00:37:06.000 The sword cuts both ways.

00:37:08.000 So my view is that the federal government should allow California to be California.

00:37:12.000 And if they wish to be a failing state, let them.

00:37:14.000 And the federal government should allow Florida to be Florida and Texas to be Texas and allow successful states to continue to succeed.

00:37:20.000 And the population movement, people will vote with their feet.

00:37:23.000 So that is reason number two.

00:37:24.000 Reason number one, California voted for this.

00:37:26.000 Reason number two, federalism.

00:37:28.000 Reason number three.

00:37:29.000 People do not learn their lesson until they reap the reward of their voting.

00:37:32.000 If Californians continue to do this, they will reap the reward.

00:37:36.000 They will.

00:37:37.000 And eventually, maybe they wake up.

00:37:39.000 Because it turns out that until the American people get it good and hard, sometimes they stick their hand in the stove and then it burns and they remove their hand.

00:37:47.000 Californians have been sticking their hand in the stove for three decades at this point. 0.99

00:37:52.000 At a certain point, they might want to wake up, but things are going to have to get pretty bad in order for them to do that.

00:37:56.000 And you know what?

00:37:57.000 Don't inhibit the badness from happening.

00:37:59.000 Let it happen.

00:38:00.000 Let it go.

00:38:02.000 And as for illegal immigration itself, if other states decide to crack down on illegal immigration and work with the federal government to stop illegal immigration, more illegal immigrants will go to California.

00:38:13.000 California, by the way, is already somewhere between 7% and 10% of its population is illegal immigrants.

00:38:19.000 At least 2.6 million illegal immigrants live there, as per the LA Times.

00:38:23.000 That is currently 7% of the entire state population of California.

00:38:26.000 It's probably significantly higher than that.

00:38:29.000 The Los Angeles area alone probably has upward of a million illegal immigrants.

00:38:34.000 If they want it, let them have it.

00:38:38.000 And by the way, we'll save the American federal taxpayers some money.

00:38:42.000 Because it turns out it's kind of expensive to deploy the National Guard.

00:38:44.000 The projected cost of the current protest handling by the National Guard and the Marines is supposedly somewhere in the neighborhood of $134 million.

00:38:53.000 I don't feel like paying taxes.

00:38:55.000 So that people in LA can yell at the National Guard for enforcing the law.

00:39:01.000 If they voted for that, listen, I lived in that state for years and I paid millions of dollars in taxes to the California state government for this kind of crappy law enforcement response, which is not the fault of the cops.

00:39:11.000 It is the fault of the politicos.

00:39:14.000 So why should I pay for that now that I'm in Florida?

00:39:17.000 I don't see a reason why.

00:39:19.000 Politically speaking, the only way that people learn their lesson is to feel the pain of the bad policies they have chosen.

00:39:25.000 And that is why I think there's a solid case to be made that in the long term, President Trump should just let California be California.

00:39:31.000 And let Gavin Newsom own it.

00:39:33.000 Let Gavin Newsom own his state that is collapsing due to the cost of things like illegal immigration and massive social programming, huge debt, driving business out of the state with elevated taxes, lack of law enforcement.

00:39:48.000 You want to turn your state into Detroit, my man?

00:39:51.000 All you.

00:39:52.000 All you.

00:39:54.000 And well, there are some people across the world who actually do not want to turn their countries into Los Angeles.

00:40:00.000 One of those people is the Prime Minister of Hungary, Viktor Orban.

00:40:04.000 About a week and a half ago, I sat down with the Prime Minister in Budapest.

00:40:07.000 We played part one of that interview yesterday.

00:40:10.000 Here is part two of our interview with Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary.

00:40:15.000 So, and back to your domestic policy here.

00:40:18.000 You have a lot of fans on the conservative side of the aisle in the United States, Try to restore a sense of strong Hungarian nationalism.

00:40:27.000 How do you define Hungarian nationalism?

00:40:29.000 What should the proper role of government be in promoting Hungarian culture?

00:40:33.000 There's sort of a libertarian view in the United States that says government shouldn't be involved in social policy.

00:40:38.000 You should basically leave that up to everybody else, but the government's not involved in the promotion of virtue or family.

00:40:45.000 What's your view on that?

00:40:46.000 How do you govern in that way?

00:40:50.000 National independence in Hungary's sovereignty has been about two things always.

00:40:55.000 If you look at the map, you will see that we are at the crossroads of war parts.

00:41:01.000 Hungary is a country that...

00:41:07.000 It was the Germans, the Russians, the Ottomans, the Turks. 0.91

00:41:11.000 So we continuously had to defend ourselves and maintain our sovereignty.

00:41:15.000 For that you need an army, you need military alliances, and you need good foreign policy.

00:41:20.000 Foreign policy that is trying to work in every direction to create foreign policy.

00:41:27.000 So sovereignty for us is about rationalism, national feelings and sentiments.

00:41:33.000 It's the Hungarian state.

00:41:36.000 It's the sovereignty of the Hungarian state being maintained even opposed to Brussels.

00:41:42.000 But sovereignty?

00:41:58.000 It's not exclusivity.

00:42:00.000 You don't need it to be publicly owned, but it needs to be national.

00:42:04.000 In the banking system, you need very strong Hungarian ownership.

00:42:07.000 In the energy sector, especially in the strategic elements, the pipelines, We are not communists.

00:42:37.000 We don't expropriate anything from others.

00:42:43.000 We are not jealous of profits, but we discussed with everybody.

00:42:47.000 We said a certain...

00:42:52.000 We have achieved that.

00:42:54.000 And I can say that nowadays the structure of the Hungarian economy serves the purpose of national sovereignty while it's based on private ownership, where it's embedded into the international commerce and trade, while we welcome foreign investors.

00:43:08.000 So we are part, if you wish, of the Western and also the Eastern economic world.

00:43:14.000 The question for nations to prevail Do you actually need the government to set objectives?

00:43:23.000 I would like, if it didn't have to set objectives, that the nation itself would be able to guarantee long-term existence.

00:43:30.000 But unfortunately, that's not the situation.

00:43:32.000 First and foremost, we are in problems with the demography.

00:43:36.000 We are a country of 10 million people, and we have less children born than people dying.

00:43:41.000 And we don't want migration.

00:43:43.000 But if this carries on, we are going to be in dire straits.

00:43:46.000 First economically, then in social system, and then ultimately the whole, I think, we will just fall below the critical size where we are able to fend for ourselves, defend ourselves.

00:44:03.000 It's not only because family is good.

00:44:05.000 It's the best thing in the world.

00:44:06.000 I have five children and grandchildren.

00:44:09.000 That's not the only reason you need to support families, but also because that's the future of the nation.

00:44:14.000 So you need to have, and we created a taxation system.

00:44:18.000 We created labor rules.

00:44:20.000 We create child support systems which can make families feel safe.

00:44:26.000 Whether you want to have children, the state cannot decide how many children you need to We can help you make a good decision.

00:44:35.000 We can help you decide for life.

00:44:38.000 Same thing for culture compared to America or even most of the Western European countries.

00:44:44.000 culture, sports, religion.

00:44:47.000 I think in institutions that they operate, schools, hospitals operated by the churches, Hungary spends So there is an economic nationalism also.

00:45:01.000 No, economic patriotism, I'm sorry.

00:45:04.000 And you mentioned a couple of things there with regard to pronatalism policy that are really interesting.

00:45:08.000 One is obviously the tax structures and incentives you've created for families to have more kids.

00:45:13.000 It appears that that had a spiking effect initially in people having more kids, usually families with a lot of kids having one more or two more kids.

00:45:20.000 And then that seems to have evened out.

00:45:22.000 The real thing that...

00:45:29.000 And you see here Israel as an actually great example.

00:45:32.000 It's the only westernized country that actually is reproducing above replacement rates in the middle of wars, in the middle of conflict, specifically because of a feeling of patriotism.

00:45:40.000 You see people who are very secular in Israel having three or four kids.

00:45:43.000 And so your focus on church and your focus on patriotism here.

00:45:49.000 That focus, it seems to me, is gonna be the one that is more likely to produce families that are having more children.

00:45:56.000 Israel is a great mystery for all of us. 0.99

00:45:59.000 Of course, we are looking for positive examples.

00:46:02.000 They are really making a good effort of it, and we don't understand how they are doing it.

00:46:06.000 We are in a much easier situation, and we're still unable to replicate them.

00:46:10.000 So I will continue to study also how Israeli politics is actually impacting families, something we could actually just learn, tricks from them. 0.91

00:46:19.000 I have been for decades a good friend of Prime Minister Netanyahu, even when he was a finance minister.

00:46:25.000 When the Prime Minister and I was in opposition, we had professional collaboration, how we could actually link economic efficiency with family support.

00:46:34.000 What concerns us, what we are doing is we are linking work, labour with the family through the taxation system.

00:46:44.000 In 2010, in this country, 61% of people were employed, which was an extremely low amount.

00:46:53.000 And we went to 81-82% now.

00:46:56.000 That's good, the employment.

00:46:58.000 But at the same time, we also want young people to have children.

00:47:02.000 And if we want them to work and have children at the same time, that means it's through the taxation system that we can best support them.

00:47:10.000 So we are putting a lot of money into family support through the tax system.

00:47:15.000 If you have two or three children, majority part of your revenue, you're not paying tax on it.

00:47:24.000 There's a big problem.

00:47:25.000 Polarization is of course strong in Hungary. 0.62

00:47:28.000 Divorces are also...

00:47:32.000 So there is this reticence among mothers to have children.

00:47:38.000 I divorce.

00:47:39.000 The husband leaves me.

00:47:41.000 How will I survive?

00:47:42.000 So there is a special focus on supporting mothers.

00:47:45.000 So a mother who has given birth to three children, and from January onwards, two children, they are tax-free until the end of their life in Hungary.

00:47:55.000 So if you have two children and you're a woman, if you are single or you are married, you will not pay personal income tax in order to support, because we believe the mother is the key of the family.

00:48:09.000 We have to help them, support them.

00:48:12.000 Things like that.

00:48:13.000 That's what we're trying.

00:48:14.000 There's a long, long period of maternity leave that you have in Hungary.

00:48:17.000 A lot of things which might luxury to some American ears, but it's important in Hungary for younger people.

00:48:24.000 It's difficult to dare to have children.

00:48:25.000 So there's another problem here, of course.

00:48:28.000 My mother gave birth to me when she was 20. My children, my grandchildren, are born closer to the age of 30 for my children.

00:48:39.000 And more and more women are deciding to have children after the age of 30. So these are new phenomena. 0.99

00:48:46.000 On which the family policy has to reflect.

00:48:50.000 This has to be reflected there.

00:48:52.000 How to support them, how to support them later on.

00:48:55.000 It's a very, very intricate system.

00:48:59.000 Mothers, family support measures are a very intricate system that helps to support or tries to support in every phase of life.

00:49:07.000 On my conviction, the future of Hungarians lies in the future of families.

00:49:11.000 Family is the most important building block.

00:49:14.000 After that comes the nation and then the Lord.

00:49:17.000 And if these three together, everything works fine.

00:49:20.000 One of the words we've mentioned a couple of times, which has become a dirty word among secularists, is Christianity and the strong Christian identity of Hungary.

00:49:27.000 And one of the reasons for that is a sort of weird belief that's taken hold in the West, that the more Christian a country is, somehow, the less tolerant it is.

00:49:36.000 And obviously, Budapest proves that that's not true.

00:49:50.000 Can you talk about what Christianity means to the Hungarian identity?

00:49:53.000 How you've fostered cooperation between government and religion in the country?

00:50:00.000 Christianity and nation and the relation between the two is very, very special and not very easy to digest for an American.

00:50:11.000 In Hungarian history, we have had many occasions when it was only Christianity and Church that helped the national identity to prevail.

00:50:22.000 So, if you are a believer or not, everybody in Hungary agrees that without Christianity, there would be no Hungarian state, no Hungary.

00:50:33.000 And this is something stipulated in the Constitution or the Constitution recognizes the force of It is a historic experience.

00:50:46.000 It's nothing we should argue for philosophically.

00:50:49.000 It's a learning.

00:50:50.000 It's something we learned over a thousand years.

00:50:52.000 It's important.

00:50:53.000 If we lose this, we lose something important.

00:50:55.000 We'll be weakened.

00:50:56.000 So we are trying to preserve Christianity.

00:50:58.000 Of course, this cannot be done under duress.

00:51:01.000 You cannot force people to be religious or to be Christians.

00:51:05.000 It's up to the church.

00:51:07.000 The government cannot spread the gospel.

00:51:11.000 It's up to the church and it's up to the priest.

00:51:13.000 Sometimes they do a good job of it, sometimes not.

00:51:16.000 In the whole of Europe, things are not quite in order.

00:51:19.000 But in the whole of Europe, Hungary is one single country where church-run institutions.

00:51:27.000 Their number of church-run institutions is increasing.

00:51:31.000 More than 20% of all schools are run by churches.

00:51:35.000 More than 80% of all children's institutions are operated by churches.

00:51:39.000 Some of our hospitals are run by churches, and I myself, with a self-declared, publicly declared policy, I'm helping churches to take over as many public institutions if those who work there, who are actually employed there, are not against this, because the church runs schools better than the state can.

00:51:59.000 The church runs a hospital better than the state can.

00:52:03.000 It is just a history.

00:52:04.000 It's a historic fact.

00:52:05.000 So Christianity, beyond the belief and faith, is also rendering public service, social service that everybody needs.

00:52:14.000 So in Hungary you can be a Jew, you can be a Pravoslav, you can be a Catholic, you can be a Calvinist, but still it's a community of faith that you belong to and in itself belonging to a community of faith is a positive thing.

00:52:28.000 It's good for the nation, it's good for Hungary, it's good for your children, it's good for the future.

00:52:32.000 These faith communities, their strength reinforces the whole country.

00:52:37.000 So the government believes that although there is no interference into church affairs, like church cannot interfere into state, it is secularized.

00:52:47.000 We want a strong Hungary.

00:52:49.000 The stronger the faith communities of faith, the stronger Hungary.

00:52:55.000 For Westerners, Europeans believe this is feudalism.

00:52:59.000 I don't believe this.

00:53:00.000 I think this is normal.

00:53:02.000 So, to turn to the United States, you obviously have a very warm relationship with President Trump.

00:53:06.000 You had a warm relationship with him during his first term.

00:53:08.000 You have a good relationship with him during his second term.

00:53:10.000 What would you like to see the United States do in terms of its foreign policy in order to strengthen and support allies like Hungary, build up those alliances around the world?

00:53:20.000 As you know, there's sort of an open debate, even on the right in the United States, between, as you say, a more isolationist foreign policy and a more hawkish and interventionist foreign policy.

00:53:30.000 Where do countries like Hungary see the United States as the most important in the world. 0.91

00:53:36.000 There are traditional issues in foreign policy, security, military force, GDP, investment, trade, etc.

00:53:46.000 These are important.

00:53:47.000 But now, in the Western world, behind all this, there is an even more important struggle going on, what I called a struggle for the soul of the West.

00:53:59.000 Leftist progressives or rightist conservative traditional Christian.

00:54:06.000 That's the battle.

00:54:07.000 For a long, long time, almost for 30 years in the West, it was the conviction that this battle for the soul of freedom.

00:54:20.000 Secular leftist progressives have won this battle.

00:54:23.000 We are just retreating.

00:54:24.000 We are retreating and in defense.

00:54:26.000 And then in 2010, we get a two-third majority during the elections in Hungary.

00:54:31.000 We amend the constitution and we create the foundations of a conservative, Christian, rightist, traditionalist.

00:54:39.000 Pro-community, new political order, economic order.

00:54:45.000 But we were alone with this.

00:54:46.000 And the reason I supported Trump in 2015 already, President Trump, that he wins the 2016 elections, because I felt that if somebody is not coming in America who is going to come to our assistance, we will lose the fight for the soul.

00:55:06.000 We will drown in the Volk Ocean.

00:55:08.000 The future of our children will be taken out of our hands.

00:55:11.000 Global financial networks will operate the country and not the elected leaders.

00:55:16.000 So we need somebody great, courageous and strong.

00:55:19.000 And that's why I supported him in 2016.

00:55:22.000 It didn't count too much.

00:55:23.000 It was a small country's support.

00:55:25.000 But I believed every voice helps.

00:55:27.000 So I stood by him openly.

00:55:29.000 And that is what I believe now.

00:55:31.000 His victory last year was the greatest thing that could have happened with the West. 0.88

00:55:38.000 Because his victory sends the signal that this is a battle that can be fought and perhaps won.

00:55:46.000 It's not over yet.

00:55:47.000 Not even in America.

00:55:48.000 It's not over yet.

00:55:49.000 It's actually a battle in progress.

00:55:52.000 It is perhaps worth fighting.

00:55:54.000 Perhaps it's a winnable one.

00:55:57.000 So his person is not the solution to our problems.

00:56:01.000 He's not our savior.

00:56:02.000 He's not going to redeem us.

00:56:04.000 He is fighting for his cause back there, and we are fighting for our cause here.

00:56:08.000 We know each other, we are aware of each other, and we help one another.

00:56:12.000 That's the deepest structures of politics.

00:56:14.000 Beyond that, you have trade and commerce and investment and security.

00:56:18.000 But there is this struggle, battle for the soul of the West.

00:56:22.000 We are allies of one another.

00:56:23.000 Americans there, Europeans here. 0.74

00:56:25.000 We are building like-minded European leaders, well, a network of like-minded leaders.

00:56:31.000 That is the family of the patriots.

00:56:34.000 That's what we created in the European Parliament after the European elections last year.

00:56:39.000 So his victory in the U.S. was the greatest encouragement.

00:56:43.000 There is hope.

00:56:44.000 You should not give up your dreams.

00:56:46.000 It is not true that you're on the wrong side of history.

00:56:48.000 Migration is bad. 1.00

00:56:49.000 If you fight against it, you are good.

00:56:51.000 Gender is bad. 1.00

00:56:52.000 If you fight against it, you are on the good side.

00:56:54.000 The family is good.

00:56:55.000 Gender is bad. 1.00

00:56:56.000 And I could just go on.

00:56:57.000 And I think the hope is back.

00:57:00.000 And that actually has lent us energy, has started processes.

00:57:04.000 We created the family of patriots in the European Parliament.

00:57:08.000 Hope is the most important and the victory of Donald Trump for the whole Western world.

00:57:14.000 Christian conservative Westerners brought hope.

00:57:17.000 That's why we trust and hope for his And while the liberal political network has been financed in the past from America substantially, it was American money spent here in Hungary financing our enemies from USAID.

00:57:34.000 Well, the US president cut this off, published this, showed it for the world, how it works.

00:57:40.000 And we found out everything is true.

00:57:42.000 In Hungary, we like to say it's time to come up with new conteos because the old ones have all proven to be true.

00:57:51.000 So it's a huge help that now this money has been cut off.

00:57:55.000 That's what his victory means for us.

00:57:58.000 So meanwhile, for you as a smaller country, having to navigate an increasingly multipolar world where it's not just the United States as global hegemon facing down the Soviet Union, you now have the United States, which is dominant in its arena of the world.

00:58:11.000 China is a rising power.

00:58:12.000 It's unclear whether China's growing power is going to be countered by a group of allies or whether they're just going to continue to expand their power.

00:58:19.000 Russia obviously is an expansionist power in Ukraine.

00:58:24.000 How do you navigate a complicated world?

00:58:27.000 It used to be a little bit more of a simple world, and it seems like it's getting more complicated.

00:58:32.000 Well, yes, but that's not a problem.

00:58:35.000 I think the world was the simplest when I was young.

00:58:38.000 You had the East and the West, but that was a horrible thing. 0.95

00:58:41.000 I lived 26 years in that world.

00:58:44.000 And you're young.

00:58:46.000 You should never find out what it meant to live there.

00:58:48.000 And the world is more complicated.

00:58:50.000 It's not only East and West.

00:58:51.000 You have Russians, Chinese, and Brics, and India, and the Brazilians, and America, and Brussels.

00:58:56.000 It's much more complicated.

00:58:57.000 But that's not a problem.

00:58:59.000 The old world was much worse.

00:59:01.000 But this is a challenge for us in a complicated environment.

00:59:07.000 Hungary actually just needs to collect friends.

00:59:11.000 And in this respect, there's a lot of potential in the American-Hungarian relations.

00:59:15.000 I'll give you an example.

00:59:16.000 Biden administration punished Hungary and Hungarians by basically stopping the double taxation agreement.

00:59:24.000 We don't have a double taxation agreement.

00:59:27.000 There's an administrative obstacle for Hungarians and Americans to collaborate well in the economy.

00:59:32.000 And there's a new president, and it seems he still has more important things on his agenda than to actually reinstate normalcy.

00:59:40.000 So there's no investment.

00:59:43.000 Chinese are bringing a huge amount of investments here.

00:59:47.000 We are calling the Americans.

00:59:49.000 There's little American investment coming.

00:59:52.000 Hungary was on the negative list during the Biden administration.

00:59:55.000 So we need to revive that.

00:59:57.000 We should also be allowed to go to invest in America in the visa system.

01:00:01.000 The Biden administration punished us.

01:00:04.000 They actually degraded us into a complicated system.

01:00:09.000 So there's a lot of things still in the American-Hungarian relations that we can improve and we should improve.

01:00:15.000 And I think America can create good relations with us.

01:00:18.000 It's important for us and for America as well.

01:00:20.000 The president has tried to motivate Europe to move away from China.

01:00:25.000 what do you make of that move?

01:00:26.000 Is that something that...

01:00:29.000 How does Hungary see China as a future geopolitical competitor to the United States, current geopolitical competitor to the United States?

01:00:36.000 Of course, the American perspective is different than ours.

01:00:40.000 What the American president and the USA expects of us is, and rightly, is that we should be loyal members of NATO.

01:00:48.000 That when it comes to security issues, NATO is the priority partner.

01:00:55.000 Nothing can endanger that.

01:00:58.000 Nothing can endanger the loyal cooperation of Hungary with NATO.

01:01:02.000 No other relationship either with Russia or with the Chinese. 0.92

01:01:05.000 That's legitimate.

01:01:06.000 Economy is different though.

01:01:08.000 Trade is different.

01:01:09.000 Well, the Americans, of course, you are trading in huge volumes with the Chinese.

01:01:16.000 Well, we want in.

01:01:18.000 I mean, it's good for us.

01:01:20.000 Don't try to convince us that we should not trade with the Chinese when you are trading with the Chinese.

01:01:25.000 I mean, you should trade with us as well.

01:01:28.000 Come with good offers, like the Chinese come with good offers. 1.00

01:01:32.000 So I think we should separate here national security, military security from commerce trade, economy.

01:01:39.000 Hungary is a country where the official policy is that from the West and the East, we will welcome investment.

01:01:47.000 You have huge industrial bases in Hungary, where you have Western car makers.

01:01:53.000 Right in the neighborhood of Eastern, Chinese, South Korean battery makers.

01:01:59.000 And they are actually building the same car in the end.

01:02:02.000 So in our strategy, we are an ideal meeting point for Westerners, Easterners, companies wanting to invest.

01:02:09.000 Here they can cooperate well.

01:02:11.000 This is a huge advantage that we don't want to relinquish.

01:02:14.000 And so we are looking forward to welcome American capital.

01:02:18.000 Prime Minister Orban, final question.

01:02:20.000 If you could speak to the American people, we are right now, what would your message to them be, looking at what you've been able to accomplish over the course of the last decade and a half?

01:02:31.000 I don't want to interfere into American politics.

01:02:34.000 But I think...

01:02:44.000 So, with the greatest respect, with all your humility, I ask Americans to support their president so that he can bring peace to the world and so that he can win the battle for the soul of the West, for the benefit of families, for nation and Christianity.

01:03:04.000 He is the great hope of the West.

01:03:09.000 So please help him.

01:03:11.000 Prime Minister Urban, I really appreciate the time.

01:03:12.000 It's truly an honor.

01:03:13.000 Thank you.

01:03:14.000 Thank you very much.

01:03:17.000 Well, meanwhile, new inflation report out.

01:03:20.000 And basically, inflation is even with where it was last month, which is to say it is increasing year over year, but at a lower rate than it had been, say, six months ago.

01:03:29.000 The question of inflation is not completely done yet.

01:03:32.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, consumer prices picked up in May.

01:03:35.000 A month when President Trump's trade war continued to ebb and flow and businesses sought to navigate shifting policies.

01:03:39.000 That was in line with the 2.4% rise expected by economists surveyed by the Wall Street Journal.

01:03:44.000 Prices excluding food and energy categories and so-called core CPI rose 2.8% that's slightly below forecast for a 2.9% increase.

01:03:54.000 The Federal Reserve is going to hold out.

01:03:55.000 They are not going to increase or decrease the interest rates at this point.

01:03:58.000 They're going to leave things steady because they have to wait to see how the tariff war sort of shakes up.

01:04:04.000 At this point, meanwhile, the president has announced that he has come to a deal with the Chinese on trade.

01:04:11.000 That trade deal, according to the president of the United States, allows China to supply rare earths and magnets.

01:04:18.000 The United States would then allow Chinese students to continue to study in the United States.

01:04:24.000 The fact that that's what China wants gives you a little bit of pause.

01:04:27.000 I mean, why does the Chinese communist government really, really want so many Chinese students studying at American universities?

01:04:33.000 A little bit, little bit questionable about that.

01:04:36.000 President Trump said we are getting a total of 55% tariffs.

01:04:39.000 China is getting 10%, meaning that China will have to pay 55% tariffs on the goods that it imports to the United States, and we will have to pay 10% on the goods that we import to China.

01:04:51.000 The president posts that he and Xi would work together to open up China to U.S. trade.

01:04:55.000 This would be a great win for both countries.

01:04:58.000 Now, to be clear, That actual rate that was just negotiated is actually higher than the current rate.

01:05:03.000 So you'll remember that they were at 125% on Chinese goods.

01:05:08.000 Americans were at 125% on Chinese goods.

01:05:10.000 And then President Trump lowered it to 30%.

01:05:12.000 Well, now it's back up to 55%, presumably, longer term.

01:05:16.000 That is going to create some level of price inflation.

01:05:19.000 So that's a pretty hefty duty, obviously.

01:05:23.000 So where exactly is this going to end up?

01:05:25.000 Well, first of all, it's a framework.

01:05:27.000 So it's unclear what the actual details are going to be.

01:05:31.000 China is going to maintain a new export control system it set up in April for rare earths, which gives it the power to clamp down in the future if it wants to strike back against the Trump administration.

01:05:41.000 So, again, still a lot of roiling in the trade markets.

01:05:46.000 The stock market this morning didn't seem to jump on the news.

01:05:51.000 Not a lot of sanguinity in the markets that things are going to work themselves out on the trade front.

01:05:55.000 And that combined with the fact that the World Bank, It's now estimating that the U.S. growth rate is going to halve because of this uncertainty and tariff war.

01:06:03.000 It's got investors a little bit on edge.

01:06:06.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, economic growth in the United States might halve this year as a result of President Trump's tariff policies, while the global economy is set to suffer a more modest but still significant slowdown.

01:06:15.000 They say that the U.S. economy will grow by just 1.4% in 2025.

01:06:20.000 That's a sharp deceleration from 2.8% expansion in 2024, and it's a massive decrease from what they expected.

01:06:27.000 In January, when President Trump was to take office, they were projecting a 2.3% increase in U.S. GDP.

01:06:34.000 They've now lowered that to 1.4%.

01:06:36.000 So, again, a lot of uncertainty in the markets.

01:06:41.000 By the way, this is just one reason, uncertainty in the markets, that I bought myself some gold last month because I'm concerned about the long-term fiscal foundation of the United States.

01:06:50.000 There are a bunch of good reasons that you want to own precious metals right now.

01:06:53.000 High geopolitical instability.

01:06:55.000 High inflation, high volatility.

01:06:58.000 Just on the show, a couple of weeks ago, you'll remember I spoke with the former head of the IMF, Kenneth Rogoff of Harvard, who is not a liberal, about the likelihood of heading into a recession.

01:07:06.000 You know, I still think that over the next few years, that possibility remains fairly high.

01:07:10.000 Diversifying your savings with gold is just a smart move.

01:07:12.000 Birch Gold Group, those are the people I buy gold from.

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01:07:53.000 Meanwhile, in media news, Miranda Devine, excellent columnist over at the New York Post.

01:07:57.000 She has a brand new podcast that is coming out called Pod Force One, in which she interviews the President of the United States once a month.

01:08:03.000 She joined me a few days ago to talk about this.

01:08:06.000 Here is what she had to say.

01:08:08.000 Miranda, thanks so much for taking the time.

01:08:09.000 Really appreciate it.

01:08:10.000 Thanks for having me, Ben.

01:08:13.000 So why don't we talk about what the new podcast is going to be about?

01:08:16.000 What do you plan on asking the President of the United States?

01:08:19.000 Yeah, it's called Pod Force One.

01:08:22.000 Funnily enough, after a sort of Air Force One, because the prime interviewee is going to be Donald Trump.

01:08:31.000 He's our first interviewee and he's promised that he'll come back, we hope, once a month, but at least as regularly as he's able to do so.

01:08:39.000 And I think...

01:08:41.000 You know, he's adept at the podcast format we saw during the election campaign.

01:08:47.000 I've got to know him quite well.

01:08:50.000 So my plan is to draw out more of the person behind who he is, because even though he's kind of an open book, there are a lot of aspects of his personality that I think are important.

01:09:08.000 He really, I mean, everything from his musical talent, he really does have this uncanny, innate talent that he was spotted by his parents when they sent him for aptitude testing when he was a child and his father wasn't too happy about it.

01:09:27.000 But the way Donald Trump describes it, he's a musical genius and he doesn't really find much outlet in that, except if you notice that he's always fiddling with an iPad when he's at home.

01:09:47.000 His rallies were part of their great popularity from the very beginning was that he chooses all this kind of boomer music that gets everybody up and dancing and in a really good mood.

01:10:00.000 You just look at the Village People song, who would have thought that YMCA would become his anthem?

01:10:06.000 So that's just one aspect, I think.

01:10:09.000 And, you know, also just trying to probe.

01:10:13.000 What his kind of philosophy is behind his very kind of smorgasbord of different policies.

01:10:21.000 You can't really pin him down as a classical, you know, Republican or Democrat or fiscal hawk or whatever it is.

01:10:29.000 And I think that comes from not just being a dilettante, but from a deep personal belief system that was, you know, formed in this very liberal city of New York.

01:10:43.000 Yeah, I think one of the things that you mentioned there is something that I've been pointing out on the show for a long time.

01:10:46.000 I am a person who's been conservative since I was old enough to talk about politics.

01:10:50.000 But President Trump is not ideological.

01:10:53.000 He's much more pragmatic.

01:10:55.000 He's somebody who comes from the business world, and particularly the New York real estate world, where you do what you have to do to get the thing built.

01:11:00.000 And I think that that is essentially, if you had to boil down President Trump in a nutshell, that's who he is.

01:11:06.000 So many of the critiques of President Trump are actually not the bug, they are the feature.

01:11:09.000 He tries things if they don't work.

01:11:11.000 He shifts away from those things.

01:11:12.000 So he gets critiqued for being inconsistent.

01:11:14.000 But inconsistency, as it was once said, is the hobgoblin of little minds sometimes when it comes to the sort of idea that you try policies.

01:11:22.000 If they fail, you move away from those policies.

01:11:25.000 Exactly.

01:11:26.000 And you're so right.

01:11:28.000 I mean, I think it sort of falls into your thesis in your new book about lions and scavengers.

01:11:34.000 And Donald Trump is a lion.

01:11:36.000 He was a lion in the New York real estate developer world, which is really a dog-eat-dog, lion-eat-lion environment.

01:11:45.000 And I remember talking to him once about one of those early sort of Republican primary debates when he coined the nickname And I said, you know, did you formulate that beforehand or how did that come about?

01:12:02.000 Because it was so incredibly effective.

01:12:04.000 It just killed Jeb Bush's campaign dead.

01:12:07.000 And he said, no, it just came to me on the stage because I'd just been back in New York.

01:12:14.000 He'd had this very torrid breakfast with this Chinese businessman from China who he'd I said, did you? 1.00

01:12:24.000 And he goes, yes.

01:12:25.000 And this guy's across the boardroom table from him in Trump Tower.

01:12:30.000 And the way Donald Trump describes it very colourfully is that, you know, he was so angry that the scrambled egg was spitting out of his mouth.

01:12:38.000 And so he sort of managed that, you know, very aggressive encounter.

01:12:43.000 And then he had to fly off to the debate.

01:12:46.000 And he's standing up on stage with this cardigan-beclad Jeb Bush.

01:12:51.000 And he just looked at him and thought, you know, the sort of stouches that I have to engage in in my business world are just so, you know, much more important and sort of difficult than what I'm doing here on this stage.

01:13:07.000 So he just looked over at Jeb and thought, you know, you are so low energy and that insult.

01:13:14.000 Just really struck to the core of who Jeb Bush was and the sort of feeling that the electorate had that there was something not quite right with him.

01:13:23.000 And I think that's part of what Donald Trump's genius is.

01:13:27.000 It's really the genius of the schoolyard bully who in an instant can take in the personality of somebody and find the sort of most vicious weapon to use to hurt them.

01:13:39.000 You know, Miranda, we've talked about sort of the reality that President Trump will try a thing.

01:13:46.000 If it fails, he'll move off the thing.

01:13:47.000 The only downside of that is that it creates uncertainty.

01:13:50.000 And that's obviously something that President Trump has to contend with.

01:13:53.000 He has to contend with the fact that, for example, when it comes to trade policy, lack of certainty may keep our enemies on their toes, but it also may keep our friends on their toes, may keep business on its toes.

01:14:03.000 When it comes to foreign policy, it's sort of unclear what's going to emerge.

01:14:06.000 And that's why I think it's pretty important that you're going to be interviewing him regularly and checking back in with him because he's...

01:14:13.000 It's not all inconsistency.

01:14:14.000 It's not all vacillation.

01:14:15.000 There are certain things that he's been saying consistently for his entire career that he truly does believe deep down.

01:14:21.000 And you elucidating on that, I think, is really important.

01:14:24.000 Thank you.

01:14:25.000 Yes.

01:14:26.000 I mean, tariffs is one of those things that I don't really know why he has such a bee in his bonnet about them, but he really loves them.

01:14:33.000 And he's going against all sort of economic wisdom.

01:14:37.000 You know, he's got some pretty heavy hitters in his economic cabinet, people, particularly I'm thinking of Treasury Secretary Scott Besant.

01:14:45.000 And he's certainly not a tariff man, but he's, you know, worked out what it is that Donald Trump wants to do.

01:14:53.000 And he's going about trying to implement it in the most successful way possible for America.

01:14:59.000 Well, the podcast is going to be titled Pod Force One.

01:15:02.000 Miranda Devine of the New York Post.

01:15:03.000 Go read her stuff over there as well.

01:15:05.000 Miranda, thanks so much for the time.

01:15:06.000 Thanks, Ben.

01:15:08.000 Already coming up, we are going to get to Simone Biles backing off of her attacks on Riley Gaines. 0.99

01:15:14.000 Yes, the left has so thoroughly lost the trans issue that they've even lost it here.

01:15:19.000 It's really an amazing, amazing cultural shift that's happening in real time.

01:15:22.000 To hear that, however, you have to become a member.

The Ben Shapiro Show - June 11, 2025

Should Trump Let LA BURN? Plus FAKE GAVIN And Part II With Orban!

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