The Ben Shapiro Show - August 17, 2026


The Candace Owens Debate Was a Disaster for Everyone


Episode Stats


Length

19 minutes

Words per minute

201.32

Word count

3,976

Sentence count

322

Harmful content

Misogyny

19

sentences flagged

Toxicity

53

sentences flagged

Hate speech

37

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcripts from "The Ben Shapiro Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Well, we have been told over and over and over again that debate is the way to get to truth.
00:00:05.000 And sometimes that's true. 1.00
00:00:07.000 And sometimes watching a debate is like watching two idiots clock each other with pool noodles. 0.99
00:00:11.000 On Friday morning, conspiratorial nutcase Candace Owens debated provocateur debate me bro Andrew Wilson over who killed Charlie Kirk. 1.00
00:00:18.000 And everyone who watched is now significantly stupider. 0.95
00:00:21.000 I'm going to go through some of the details in a second and what it means for debate culture more generally. 0.98
00:00:26.000 This is the Ben Shapiro Show.
00:00:34.000 Debate is sometimes useful and sometimes it's just not useful.
00:00:38.000 It's just not.
00:00:39.000 Now, there are two possible reasons for debate to be useful.
00:00:42.000 First, when you might convince the person you're debating, and second, when you might convince the audience.
00:00:45.000 If neither one of those things is true, you're probably wasting your time.
00:00:48.000 Well, I think it's fair to say a lot of people wasted their time last Friday, which is when there was a debate between Candace Owens and Andrew Wilson over who killed Charlie Kirk.
00:00:59.000 Now, moment of rare agreement is never going to happen again. 0.99
00:01:04.000 Between me and true America hating piece of crap, Hassan Piker. 0.61
00:01:09.000 Not the attitude Hassan Piker is about to project, but what he says here about what Candace Owens has done to Charlie Kirk's memory and to his family. 0.98
00:01:18.000 That part's true. 1.00
00:01:19.000 He's celebrating it because, of course, he's a piece of crap. 1.00
00:01:21.000 But here's what Hassan Piker had to say about Candace Owens. 0.99
00:01:25.000 I can't speak out against this queen because this is a queen that successfully and single handedly undermined. 0.93
00:01:35.000 The Republican initiative to martyrize Charlie Kirk and use that example to crack down on political dissent. 0.98
00:01:48.000 She dropped a grenade on the discourse.
00:01:53.000 So I'm with her.
00:01:54.000 It's hard.
00:01:54.000 It's hard for me.
00:01:55.000 My brain says, no, it's probably Tyler Robinson, but my heart says, go, Candace, go.
00:02:02.000 Keep cooking.
00:02:04.000 You know, does that make sense?
00:02:06.000 I can't like her tweets because she blocked me.
00:02:08.000 Many, many years ago.
00:02:09.000 This is before she became our hero.
00:02:12.000 Okay. 0.58
00:02:13.000 Many, many years ago, Candace Owens blocked me.
00:02:16.000 I've not been a fan of Candace Owens.
00:02:18.000 I am a fan now. 0.90
00:02:20.000 Well, yeah, of course he is, because it turns out that Candace Owens has basically turned what would have been a referendum on radical trans rhetoric and what it means for America into a complete mess, a moral hazard, just a disaster area. 0.93
00:02:37.000 So, of course, the Sun Piker is super happy. 0.72
00:02:38.000 So, this debate was a three plus hour debate.
00:02:43.000 Which basically was like walking through the halls of a psychotic ward.
00:02:48.000 That's really what it was.
00:02:50.000 And so we'll go through some of it and try to pull out what is substantive from it.
00:02:52.000 But lots of people watched it, which is the reason we're commenting on it.
00:02:55.000 Because again, people are now treating matters of truth as matters of entertainment.
00:02:59.000 And this is the bigger message here that when a public begins to treat matters of baseline truth as matters of pure entertainment, of pure just distraction, what you end up with is the worst form of political debate and the worst form.
00:03:16.000 Of human behavior.
00:03:17.000 Truly, it's bad, bad stuff.
00:03:19.000 This thing has 1.5 million views on Patrick Bett David's channel.
00:03:23.000 PBD moderated this, by which we really mean that if you watch the thing, he basically sat in the center and looked as though he wanted to be anywhere else except in the middle of this mess.
00:03:32.000 4.3 million views on Kansas' channel and another half million or so on Wilson.
00:03:37.000 So 6.5 million views on YouTube alone in the first couple of days here.
00:03:42.000 And naturally, everyone who watched it came out with precisely the opinion they had before. 0.52
00:03:48.000 Candace's followers are saying that she demolished Wilson.
00:03:51.000 And PBD's commenters pointed out how he really couldn't moderate because it was just a mess.
00:03:57.000 And Andrew Wilson's fans are saying that he wrecked her.
00:04:00.000 And both sides are now running clips claiming that their respective side won.
00:04:03.000 None of this is useful.
00:04:05.000 None of this is.
00:04:05.000 And what's more, there's a moral problem here.
00:04:08.000 When you debate for money over the matter of whether a person who clearly murdered somebody, murdered somebody, and whether the person who is claiming that the true murderer might in fact be his wife, Might in fact be his best friends, might in fact be people who surround him.
00:04:22.000 What you are doing is granting the imprimatur of decency to a debate that is indecent at its heart.
00:04:28.000 Because here is the thing in order for a proper debate to take place, two preconditions generally have to be met. 0.96
00:04:32.000 First, the proposition being debated cannot be inherently retarded. 0.94
00:04:36.000 Debating whether the moon is made of cheese is a waste of time. 0.91
00:04:40.000 Even if the person who's making the argument sounds very convincing, it's a waste of time because the moon is not made of cheese. 0.98
00:04:45.000 And if the person walks away with more people believing the moon is made of cheese, more people have been made retarded. 0.97
00:04:49.000 Debating who killed Charlie Kirk with a person who says, not that there's reasonable doubt, but that it was probably the French Foreign Legion in league with the Israelis, probably in league with Erica Kirk and TPUSA, maybe in league with me, maybe in league with Josh Hammer, maybe in league with Bill Ackman, who the hell knows? 0.95
00:05:05.000 Okay, that is inherently retarded because there is literally no evidence pointing to anyone except Tyler Robinson. 0.89
00:05:11.000 And you know who says that? 0.98
00:05:12.000 His own lawyers, whose job it is to keep him out of jail.
00:05:16.000 And as we'll see in this debate, Candace had no evidence to provide for any contention that she made throughout the debate at all.
00:05:21.000 Second, and far more importantly, when we're talking about preconditions to successful debate, participants in the debate must have some baseline respect for the truth and the fact. 0.94
00:05:28.000 You can't have a proper debate with somebody who doesn't give a crap about the fact.
00:05:31.000 If you are debating, for example, welfare reform, and one of the participants says, welfare does not exist. 0.95
00:05:38.000 Because the earth does not exist.
00:05:41.000 There is no possible way to debate the proposition with that person.
00:05:45.000 If every time you cite a statistic, the person says numbers aren't real, there's no way to actually debate that.
00:05:51.000 If you pretend the facts don't exist or that the facts don't matter or that you can just hand wave them away, there's no way to actually win that debate or even have a debate with that kind of person. 0.99
00:06:00.000 A person who refuses to even make clear his or her own positions, like runs away when asked about it and hides behind some sort of semantic game, that's not a debate, it's just stupidity. 0.99
00:06:11.000 And so we should make the point here that no one in America gives less of a crap about facts than Candace Owens. 1.00
00:06:17.000 That person does not exist. 0.69
00:06:19.000 All right, coming up, we'll get into the incomplete list of Candace Owens conspiracies again. 0.98
00:06:23.000 We are all becoming stupider, including your 12 year old, if they get an iPhone. 0.98
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00:07:23.000 Here is a really, really, really incomplete list of the theories that Candace Owens has spouted without any facts to support them, as an account called AG Hamilton has pointed out on X. Here's a massively incomplete list.
00:07:37.000 Like the list is much longer.
00:07:39.000 Israel is involved in 9 11. 0.79
00:07:40.000 The Earth might be flat. 0.98
00:07:42.000 It is absurd to believe dinosaurs roamed the Earth and were killed by an asteroid.
00:07:46.000 Emmanuel Macron's wife is secretly a man.
00:07:48.000 The Holocaust is either fake or severely exaggerated. 0.63
00:07:51.000 The crimes of the Allies in World War II and post World War II were worse than anything the Nazis did. 0.62
00:07:57.000 The U.S. dropped the bomb on Nagasaki to target Christians. 0.80
00:08:00.000 A secret cabal of Hollywood Jews was behind the death of Michael Jackson and people around him. 0.95
00:08:05.000 Ataturk was a secret Jew. 0.94
00:08:06.000 Stalin was a secret Jew. 1.00
00:08:09.000 A secret cabal of Jews has been kidnapping, raping, and killing Christian children on Passover. 0.99
00:08:13.000 That's just traditional medieval blood libels, actually. 0.99
00:08:16.000 And the list goes on and on and on and on.
00:08:18.000 So again, Candace is completely divorced from the truth, nor does she even care about the truth.
00:08:22.000 And in fact, when asked for evidence for any of her propositions, she ran like hell from that obvious question.
00:08:28.000 So at one point, Andrew Wilson asked Candace Owens for positive evidence for any of the suppositions that she was making.
00:08:36.000 And she looks frankly bored with the question.
00:08:40.000 So you think, with full confidence, you think that France and Israel? 0.81
00:08:45.000 Yeah.
00:08:45.000 I mean, the person that gave me that thing that I reported said that French Foreign Legion were on the ground that day.
00:08:51.000 Again, this would be at a professional limitation for me to then go and probe that information that I handed over.
00:08:58.000 I can't do that.
00:08:59.000 I'm not going to do that.
00:08:59.000 But you don't have any positive evidence of that.
00:09:02.000 Can you just stop?
00:09:03.000 It's actually just like annoying to hear you keep saying positive evidence.
00:09:06.000 Just ask me what I think.
00:09:07.000 And I just tell you, yes, I think they are involved.
00:09:09.000 That's a claim.
00:09:11.000 No, I said, here's what I think.
00:09:13.000 I have every right to ask you about your claim.
00:09:15.000 Yeah, but if there's positive evidence for your claim.
00:09:17.000 I literally just said, I think and I am allowed to think.
00:09:21.000 Yeah, you're allowed to think.
00:09:22.000 You have positive evidence.
00:09:23.000 I have tons of positive evidence that I'm allowed to think.
00:09:26.000 I agree.
00:09:27.000 You're allowed to think.
00:09:28.000 Nobody's disputing whether or not Candace Owens is allowed to think.
00:09:30.000 What I'm asking is if.
00:09:31.000 But what's your issue then?
00:09:32.000 What is your issue with this statement? 0.96
00:09:34.000 I think that Israel is involved.
00:09:37.000 That's not what.
00:09:42.000 Are you smarter for having heard this?
00:09:44.000 Was it a great debate had by all?
00:09:46.000 Was the truth approached at its closest point?
00:09:49.000 Patrick Bett David looks like he wants to dig a hole and crawl into it. 0.99
00:09:53.000 Candace Owens, my goodness, I love that Candace Owens has now been reduced in that clip to Michelle Foucaultian deconstructionism.
00:10:00.000 It's really impressive. 0.94
00:10:02.000 She's like, I think. 0.87
00:10:04.000 That I am positive that Israel and the French did it. 0.99
00:10:06.000 And Andrew Wilson's like, do you have evidence for that proposition? 0.99
00:10:08.000 He's like, I do have much evidence for the proposition that I think that thing.
00:10:13.000 This would be the place where you should say, that's not what I'm asking.
00:10:15.000 I'm asking, is there any evidence for the proposition that Israel and France did the thing?
00:10:21.000 Not, is there evidence for the idea that you think that thing?
00:10:25.000 Like, this is nonsensical.
00:10:26.000 What are we doing here? 0.65
00:10:28.000 What in the actual hell? 1.00
00:10:30.000 I mean, I can say right now, I think, With 100% certainty, I think with 100% certainty that Candace Owens is whoring herself on the side of the road. 0.74
00:10:43.000 Now, if somebody says to me, Do you have any evidence for that proposition? 0.60
00:10:46.000 And my response is, Well, I mean, I have lots of evidence that I think it.
00:10:50.000 I have tons of evidence that I think it.
00:10:53.000 She would properly sue me because, again, I have no evidence for that proposition that she is whoring herself on the side of the road.
00:10:59.000 I assume, in fact, she is not whoring herself on the side of the road because there is no evidence.
00:11:03.000 But this is like, that's an amazing statement. 0.87
00:11:06.000 So she can.
00:11:06.000 So to get this straight, in a Mott and Bailey argument, that is where you make a bad argument and then you kind of hide back in a more secure argument.
00:11:14.000 So her bad argument is that Israel and France are behind the Kirk assassination.
00:11:20.000 That is her Mott. 0.54
00:11:21.000 And when it's attacked, she moves back to the Bailey. 0.86
00:11:24.000 And the Bailey is, I said, I think a thing.
00:11:27.000 How dare you question me thinking a thing?
00:11:31.000 This is semantic game playing. 1.00
00:11:32.000 It's just, you are dumber if you believe this. 1.00
00:11:35.000 And apparently, there are a lot of people on the internet who are really, really, really dumb. 1.00
00:11:38.000 I mean, truly dumb. 1.00
00:11:39.000 This would not pass the smell test in like a high school debate class, a junior high debate class. 0.99
00:11:44.000 This would not pass the smell test in any debate in third grade.
00:11:49.000 But again, Candace was asked about justifying her facts here.
00:11:54.000 And here is the support that she has for her factual assertions.
00:12:01.000 So I think what's happened is I've actually built up a rapport with my audience that it's not vibes and dreams.
00:12:06.000 And that's why they keep watching my content because I. Like, for example, when I just the other day released the content of the shooter on the roof doing the lateral crawl, then they're going, I don't think these are just vibes.
00:12:18.000 It seems like cannabis sources are legit.
00:12:19.000 So I've proven myself in the market.
00:12:21.000 Yeah, I'm not sure that that would legitimize your sources as being legitimate when it comes to the idea that, oh, they all believe that there's a conspiracy going on, which is actually what your claim is now.
00:12:32.000 Yeah, I mean, obviously, Andrew Wilson is correct about this.
00:12:34.000 I love that her defense of her A factual claims is my audience vibes with me.
00:12:41.000 Well, you know, there are lots of audience that vibe with leaders, it happens all the time.
00:12:45.000 For example, cult leader Jim Jones, his audience was totally vibing with him.
00:12:50.000 Totally vibing with him.
00:12:51.000 I mean, they were willing to, they believed him.
00:12:53.000 It was growing the movement.
00:12:55.000 It was really solid. 0.96
00:12:56.000 They vibed with him so strongly, they were willing to believe the idea that if they drank the Kool Aid, then they would bring about the eschaton. 0.87
00:13:05.000 And then they drank the Kool Aid and they all died because he had poisoned it.
00:13:08.000 So I'm pretty sure that people believing you is not good evidence the thing you're saying is true.
00:13:14.000 In fact, I'm pretty well assured that these two things are completely different propositions.
00:13:20.000 People believe all sorts of people who lie to them, it happens all the time.
00:13:25.000 But again, this is Candace Ishtick.
00:13:26.000 You know, you walk down the supplement aisle at the grocery store, half the ingredient labels appear to have been written for someone with a PhD in chemistry.
00:13:33.000 I don't have time for this.
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00:14:27.000 So here was Candace going off on Erica Kirk. 0.99
00:14:29.000 This is again, this is why this debate is not just stupid, it's immoral because granting credibility to Candace Owens to spew this kind of crap about Erica Kirk is just it's disgusting. 1.00
00:14:37.000 I'm sorry, it is clowns can be clowns, that's their prerogative, but but granting moral credibility to this sort of trash is really disgusting. 0.99
00:14:47.000 And so, I asked her directly, her lawyer directly, the phone's in between us. 0.98
00:14:51.000 I'm like, wait, so just so I'm clear, you haven't seen anything that the public hasn't seen, and he says no.
00:14:59.000 So, I'm going back in my head and I'm going, okay, so why is Erica saying that?
00:15:03.000 With such a degree of certainty, like she was sent out to convince the public, and people bit, by the way.
00:15:07.000 I remember even Megyn Kelly was like, you know, let's wait. 0.83
00:15:11.000 She's going to have access to things. 0.97
00:15:13.000 I did think she had access to things that we didn't have.
00:15:15.000 Why express that confidence to the public as opposed to just being like, we don't know yet?
00:15:19.000 I feel confident he's involved.
00:15:21.000 They make the rest.
00:15:21.000 I don't understand how any of this would make her complicit in what.
00:15:25.000 Well, I've already told you.
00:15:26.000 She's complicit in trying to fool the public into thinking this is some open and shut case.
00:15:30.000 How is she trying to fool the public into.
00:15:33.000 If she believes that Tyler Robinson killed Kirk, if she believes that, how would that be complicit in anything?
00:15:42.000 I do believe.
00:15:43.000 Are you saying that you think she doesn't believe it?
00:15:46.000 I don't believe that at that stage, she sat down with Barry Weiss, that that's what she believes.
00:15:49.000 No.
00:15:50.000 Right.
00:15:50.000 So she's claiming, again, Candace demands that everybody give her the benefit of the doubt that she believes what she believes.
00:15:56.000 But she's claiming that Erica Kirk overtly lies, that Erica has serious doubts as to whether Tyler Robinson killed Charlie, and she's just doing this, what, for the shits and giggles of it? 0.98
00:16:04.000 It's really insane. 0.98
00:16:05.000 It's truly, truly insane stuff.
00:16:07.000 Crazy.
00:16:09.000 Okay, well, the thing about Andrew Wilson that's kind of funny is that Andrew Wilson, of course, is not politically like minded with me in a wide variety of ways, for example. 1.00
00:16:16.000 But at least he has the brains to understand what Candace is doing is wrong and stupid. 0.99
00:16:22.000 So here he was pointing out that. 1.00
00:16:26.000 So Candace basically said that the only people who are okay with Erica having become CEO of TPUSA are either feminists or Zionists.
00:16:33.000 And Andrew Wilson's like, well, I'm neither of those things.
00:16:35.000 And I don't think it was suspicious per se. 0.98
00:16:39.000 For you, though, to say that anybody's a girl boss, right? 0.96
00:16:42.000 That's like the pot calling the kettle black.
00:16:44.000 That came out of your mouth.
00:16:45.000 No, that was you. 1.00
00:16:47.000 You brought up girl boss. 1.00
00:16:48.000 Girl boss came out of your mouth. 1.00
00:16:49.000 Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm telling you that you brought up this idea that I'm defending some feminist nonsense. 0.99
00:16:56.000 I'm not. 1.00
00:16:57.000 I'm pointing out that they're, by the way, she's not qualified to take over his company.
00:17:01.000 There's always objective outliers to each situation.
00:17:05.000 In fact, it's the exception that proves the rule.
00:17:07.000 And the interesting thing here is like, I'm still just as critical of feminism inside of TPUSA as I've always been.
00:17:14.000 And I'm just as critical of any pro Zionist position as I've ever been.
00:17:18.000 None of that's ever changed. 1.00
00:17:20.000 It's all just nonsense. 1.00
00:17:21.000 It's nonsense wrapped in stupidity, wrapped in idiocy, wrapped in semantic jargon. 1.00
00:17:29.000 It's so silly. 1.00
00:17:30.000 It's all so silly. 0.99
00:17:31.000 It's also silly. 0.95
00:17:32.000 So, the clip, all this looks very bad for Candace, right?
00:17:35.000 There's only one clip that looks good for Candace.
00:17:36.000 That one clip is where Candace asks Andrew Wilson to list off the charges, and Candace has memorized the charges, and it gets awkward.
00:17:46.000 Can you tell me one commentary piece?
00:17:47.000 Then let's do the counter piece.
00:17:49.000 You can really, yeah, no, this is a great commentary piece.
00:17:51.000 No, no, no.
00:17:51.000 You just got to ask me.
00:17:52.000 Play clips out of context, put me in the hot seat, so please just answer the question.
00:17:56.000 Name all seven since you've been following the case.
00:17:56.000 This is fair.
00:17:59.000 Okay, sure.
00:18:00.000 You name one.
00:18:01.000 Yeah, you named all seven.
00:18:02.000 I'm happy to do that, but can you name one?
00:18:04.000 I think he's been charged with murder.
00:18:06.000 That's actually incredible.
00:18:07.000 Okay, great.
00:18:08.000 Now name all seven.
00:18:09.000 He doesn't even, this is like. Name all seven.
00:18:11.000 Can you name all seven?
00:18:13.000 I can't.
00:18:14.000 Then do it.
00:18:15.000 Sure, you don't have to do it.
00:18:16.000 No, do it.
00:18:17.000 I'll count them.
00:18:17.000 Go ahead.
00:18:18.000 You don't have to put your fingers up.
00:18:19.000 Okay, hang on.
00:18:20.000 Yeah, sure.
00:18:20.000 Name them.
00:18:21.000 Name them.
00:18:22.000 The first charge is aggravated murder because that's what carries the death sentence in the state of you.
00:18:25.000 No.
00:18:27.000 Okay, and then she proceeds to name all seven.
00:18:29.000 I can say first rule of the debate, by the way, don't ask questions you don't know the answers to.
00:18:32.000 But again, the fact that she has memorized the charges doesn't demonstrate that anything she says about the charges is true, obviously. 0.99
00:18:37.000 But this is the stupidity. 0.99
00:18:39.000 This is, it's all performative. 1.00
00:18:40.000 It's all performative.
00:18:41.000 At no point is truth approached.
00:18:43.000 Truth is a far, far distant object in this debate.
00:18:46.000 No one cares about it.
00:18:47.000 It doesn't matter.
00:18:49.000 People who agree with Andrew Wilson agreed with him before.
00:18:51.000 People who disagree with Andrew Wilson disagree with him after.
00:18:53.000 People who love Candace will agree with anything she says.
00:18:56.000 The reason this is important is, again, Because there is this thing that has gone around in sort of debate me culture online, which is when you get two people in a room, the conversation is always useful.
00:19:05.000 And here's my proposition Nope.
00:19:07.000 My proposition is very often the answer is nope.
00:19:10.000 And you probably wasted three plus hours watching that thing if you feel that you came way better informed in any way, shape, or form.
00:19:17.000 By the way, if you are curious about the calcium markets on various arrest chances, apparently 8.5% of people think that Candace Owens is going to be arrested this year.
00:19:27.000 I disagree, by the way.
00:19:28.000 She's not going to be arrested because. 0.99
00:19:30.000 As said earlier, there's no evidence for the idea that she's whoring herself on street corners.
00:19:33.000 So I don't think that's going to happen.
00:19:35.000 What an amazing video you just watched.
00:19:37.000 Wasn't that amazing?
00:19:38.000 Well, you know, if you think so, head on over to dailywire.comslash subscribe to watch the full show ad free or check out this crazy story here.