The Ben Shapiro Show - The Exclusive Zelensky Interview Part II…Plus China vs. Trump!

00:00:00.000 Well, folks, we'll get to all the news, plus the second part of my interview with President Zelensky in just one moment.

00:00:04.000 First, a big question that I've been getting since we released the trailer for that interview with President Zelensky is why actually go to a nation in the middle of a war?

00:00:11.000 And the answer is simple, because getting the facts matters.

00:00:14.000 The truth matters.

00:00:15.000 And you, our Daily Wire members, deserve the truth.

00:00:18.000 You deserve answers.

00:00:19.000 This is the kind of journalism your support makes possible.

00:00:21.000 This is the community that actually fights for your values.

00:00:23.000 Join us right now at dailywire.com slash subscribe.

00:00:27.000 Well, a couple of days ago, right after we left Ukraine, the Russians launched one of the biggest salvos of the war all across Ukraine, drones, missiles.

00:00:36.000 One of those missiles struck an apartment complex in Kiev that killed at least 12 people.

00:00:41.000 This prompted President Trump to take to Truth Social and issue a statement, quote, not necessary and very bad timing.

00:00:48.000 Vladimir, stop.

00:00:49.000 5,000 soldiers a week are dying.

00:00:51.000 Let's get the peace deal done.

00:00:53.000 I'm not happy with the Russian strikes on Kyiv.

00:00:58.000 I'm sorry, but yelling at Vladimir Putin over Truth Social is not the thing that is going to get it done.

00:01:04.000 President Trump has been very successful at successfully pressuring the Ukrainians to come to the table.

00:01:09.000 He's gotten Vladimir Zelensky to agree to a 30-day ceasefire.

00:01:13.000 However, when it comes to the actual pressure on the Russians, so far that seems to have been largely in abeyance.

00:01:21.000 In fact, President Trump yesterday was asked directly about this.

00:01:24.000 He's doing a presser in the Oval Office.

00:01:26.000 And he was asked about what concessions Putin had made thus far, because the United States is asking some pretty large concessions from the Ukrainians, ranging from acknowledgement of Russian ownership over eastern Ukraine and Crimea to the possibility of banning themselves from NATO,

00:01:41.000 essentially, and not even getting great security guarantees from the United States or from Europe in the process.

00:01:48.000 That is the proposal that was put on the table by supposed master negotiator Steve Witkoff, who has yet to actually negotiate a successful deal.

00:01:55.000 In any real sense.

00:01:57.000 Well, President Trump was asked about what exactly is Vladimir Putin putting on the table.

00:02:00.000 Here's President Trump's response.

00:02:02.000 What concessions has Russia offered up thus far to get to the point where you're closer to peace?

00:02:09.000 Stopping the war. 0.57

00:02:11.000 Stopping taking the whole country.

00:02:14.000 Pretty big concession.

00:02:17.000 President Trump then went on to suggest that the big concession from Moscow is that they're not trying to conquer the rest of Ukraine, which is currently untrue.

00:02:25.000 They are trying to conquer the rest of Ukraine.

00:02:26.000 Also, that's not a concession.

00:02:28.000 That's because the Ukrainians are fighting.

00:02:29.000 That's because over 50,000 Ukrainians have died fighting against the Russians.

00:02:33.000 It is not that Vladimir Putin decided to be a nice guy and not try to take Kiev or Lviv.

00:02:38.000 It is that Vladimir Putin has been stopped in his tracks by the Ukrainian military.

00:02:43.000 Yes, with American financial support, material aid.

00:02:47.000 From Europe as well as the United States.

00:02:50.000 Why does all of this matter?

00:02:51.000 Well, it matters because if the United States were to simply withdraw from all of this, which is the threat, the threat right now that the Trump administration is putting forward, is the threat that they will walk away from the negotiation table and also possibly cut all aid to Ukraine, including everything up to and including intelligence sharing.

00:03:06.000 If that happens, the possibility becomes very strong that Vladimir Putin does in fact succeed in his invasion of Ukraine and take the rest of Ukraine.

00:03:14.000 The Europeans are ramping up their spend.

00:03:16.000 The problem is, on a material war-making level, a lot of the weaponry that the Ukrainians are using is American-made, requires American parts, and so it takes a while to shift over from that sort of weaponry to European-made, European parts.

00:03:29.000 And so that delay could actually cost the Ukrainians the entirety of the war.

00:03:34.000 As you know, I actually traveled into Ukraine a couple of days ago, and I sat down with President Vladimir Zelensky.

00:03:39.000 To discuss all of this, we played the first part of our interview yesterday on the show.

00:03:43.000 Here's the second part of our interview with Vladimir Zelensky.

00:03:45.000 *Music*

00:03:51.000 So, there have been a couple of different arguments that have been made by Vladimir Putin that have now been picked up by some people in the United States about the nature of Ukraine.

00:04:00.000 Obviously, Putin has suggested that Ukraine is a Nazi regime, that there ought to be denazification.

00:04:05.000 Simultaneously, he has suggested that Ukraine is a wild hotbed of social leftism, very big on transgenderism, same-sex marriage, abortion.

00:04:15.000 How do you respond to those two varying accusations about Ukraine itself?

00:04:22.000 Well, it's funny.

00:04:24.000 Funny to hear about this from Putin.

00:04:28.000 I mean, and addressing that to me, you know, any talks about Nazism directed to me, you know, through his actions, he came very close to the results of the Nazi regime that was...

00:04:44.000 Dominating in Europe like 100 years ago, and Putin is coming very close through the actions of his armed forces, like particularly in the first days of the full-scale war, because in the beginning,

00:05:00.000 when they were like in the very beginning of this...

00:05:04.000 Full-scale invasion.

00:05:05.000 They were raping people.

00:05:06.000 They were killing people.

00:05:09.000 They were doing everything.

00:05:10.000 And you know, a good example is your meeting.

00:05:13.000 I was told that you had a meeting with the main rabbi.

00:05:17.000 Yes.

00:05:18.000 So you had a meeting.

00:05:20.000 So do you think he's an adequate person?

00:05:23.000 Seems like a nice rabbi to me.

00:05:25.000 I've met many rabbis.

00:05:26.000 Seems nice.

00:05:27.000 Absolutely adequate.

00:05:29.000 Absolutely adequate.

00:05:31.000 I think he's a heroic person.

00:05:32.000 He's a heroic father.

00:05:34.000 His son is a Jew.

00:05:36.000 They're a family.

00:05:37.000 It's a Jew family.

00:05:39.000 But his son went to war.

00:05:43.000 Do you think whether his son would be fighting for a Nazi regime?

00:05:49.000 That's not adequate, what Putin is saying.

00:05:53.000 You know, the Jews...

00:05:55.000 They can't be fighting for the Nazi regime.

00:05:57.000 I mean, Rabbi cannot be sending his son to the war for the Nazi regime.

00:06:04.000 And there's many a lot, you know, that I have some of the ancestors, Jews, and telling that Ukrainians are Nazis, that I'm a Nazi, and that I represent the Kiev Nazi regime.

00:06:21.000 Look.

00:06:22.000 It's kind of, it's primitive.

00:06:24.000 I think I should, you know, come up with some differing evidences or arguments, at least something, because we have thousands of evidences of a Nazi regime of Putin and the consequences of his war against us.

00:06:42.000 The recognition of his regime as accountable to the International Criminal Court.

00:06:50.000 There's the deportation of Ukrainian children, which is recognized by the whole world.

00:06:54.000 And some of the leaders close to him, these are the leaders who always had some tight relations, I mean the economic relations with Russia.

00:07:03.000 Those on the Middle East, those somewhere in the Global South, even the... 0.86

00:07:11.000 These leaders, even they, are fighting for Putin to return back our children because the abdication of children, taking them away from their relatives, even those children who lost their parents during this war,

00:07:29.000 but taking those children away from their grandparents...

00:07:35.000 I'm sorry, that's...

00:07:37.000 That is something that is truly more like modern Nazis, but that's not like Ukrainian Nazis at all.

00:07:44.000 How do you respond to the counter-accusation, which is that Ukraine is actually just a repository of Western decadence, that it's a decadent country that's liberal and that is embracing all these socially leftist causes, and therefore conservatives in the United States, for example, should not care about Ukraine because really Russia is the more religious conservative power.

00:08:05.000 Look, first and foremost, the people of Ukraine, well, you shouldn't be forcing Ukrainian people to do anything.

00:08:15.000 That's the major kind of aspect.

00:08:19.000 The people of Ukraine, they will select for themselves.

00:08:23.000 We don't have any difficulties.

00:08:26.000 Regarding the human rights.

00:08:29.000 No challenges regarding that.

00:08:31.000 Because that's the main law for those people.

00:08:34.000 Why the Ukrainians are fighting against Russians?

00:08:36.000 Not because these are Russians.

00:08:38.000 Absolutely not.

00:08:39.000 But because someone, and in this case Russians, came and started to force you if tomorrow we'll be told that... 0.97

00:08:50.000 There's inequality of sexes and someone might be imposed on Ukrainians.

00:08:55.000 The Ukrainians will be fighting for their own rights. 0.65

00:08:58.000 That's kind of the emotional phase of the Ukrainians.

00:09:03.000 Ukrainians are free.

00:09:06.000 And we are not kind of limiting Ukrainians.

00:09:10.000 Because you can't do that.

00:09:12.000 You shouldn't be doing that.

00:09:13.000 Because Ukrainians will be against it. 1.00

00:09:15.000 That's it.

00:09:15.000 And it's everywhere.

00:09:16.000 I mean, it's in the gender equality.

00:09:19.000 It's in all matters related to religious choice, how to live, with whom to live.

00:09:28.000 How many children would you like to have?

00:09:31.000 You want a lot of children? 1.00

00:09:33.000 Okay, we'll be supporting that.

00:09:35.000 We are supporting that.

00:09:36.000 This is very important to us.

00:09:40.000 Just now I had a meeting with the churches and they're saying that you need to reinforce the institute of family because of the war and plus 8.5 million Ukrainians left.

00:09:54.000 The country say the birth rate is decreasing and we need to reinforce that.

00:10:00.000 This is the signals that they are transmitting.

00:10:02.000 We are sharing those signals among the people.

00:10:05.000 And I'm convinced that if you're not exerting any pressure on Ukrainians, if you have a dialogue with Ukrainians, then you can agree on everything.

00:10:16.000 As long as you, or if you're starting to force Ukrainians, or if you could start to press on the Ukrainians' dignity or Ukrainians' rights, then Ukraine will kind of turn around very fast. 0.91

00:10:28.000 The Russians, they could be friendly to Ukrainians.

00:10:31.000 They could be.

00:10:32.000 Doing so.

00:10:33.000 And for many years, that was the case.

00:10:35.000 But the problem of Russians is that they want to have a Russian world everywhere. 0.96

00:10:41.000 They're not respecting you, your language, your identity.

00:10:45.000 They want everyone to be the same.

00:10:48.000 They are saying that Ukraine does not exist.

00:10:52.000 Look, they came and most of the...

00:10:56.000 People who died, I mean, Ukrainians who died, that was in the east of Ukraine.

00:11:02.000 This is where the family, where half Russian, half Ukrainian, and where the families were speaking.

00:11:08.000 Primarily with Russian language, but most of the families like that, they were living in the East.

00:11:13.000 Now, how have they supported, Russians supported the development of their own language or culture? 0.71

00:11:18.000 Nothing.

00:11:19.000 No, no, no.

00:11:20.000 Now, that's a totally different situation.

00:11:23.000 Now the people are hating them, even those people who had some family relationship or had some ties with Russia because of the border.

00:11:31.000 But now...

00:11:33.000 There's a different attitude because the Russians have brought death. 1.00

00:11:40.000 In this case, you'll be hating these people because that person or that people killed members of your family or brought hatred upon your land.

00:11:50.000 That's why the attitude.

00:11:51.000 So now I want to talk about negotiations and Russia's ambitions here.

00:11:53.000 So you've already accepted an immediate 30-day ceasefire.

00:11:57.000 The Russians refused to accept a 30-day ceasefire or even a one-day ceasefire.

00:12:01.000 They put together a fake one-day ceasefire for Easter and then they proceeded to send drones all over the eastern part of Ukraine.

00:12:07.000 The Russian ambitions here... 0.88

00:12:09.000 How do you interpret those ambitions?

00:12:11.000 I mean, Vladimir Putin has suggested that Ukraine is a fake state, that it needs to be removed from the map, it needs to be completely taken over, and he's talked about how the Soviet Empire, the great geopolitical disaster, was the destruction of the Soviet Empire, not because he's a Soviet, but because he believes that sort of the Russian imperial spirit requires empire,

00:12:27.000 and Ukraine is the big sort of moat in his eye.

00:12:31.000 He can't get over it.

00:12:33.000 Given that position from President Putin, do you believe that he will be satisfied with a ceasefire that solidified the lines currently where they are?

00:12:44.000 Or do you think that he's looking for more?

00:12:46.000 Let's go to

00:12:48.000 Let's be pragmatic.

00:12:51.000 Let's not try to take into account only the...

00:12:56.000 This desires of Putin.

00:13:01.000 And it's not serious to speak to such a large country that it does not exist.

00:13:08.000 There's kind of tens of millions of people living here in Ukraine, and there's tens of millions of Ukrainians living around the globe.

00:13:20.000 And many Ukrainians will not allow him to change the history.

00:13:23.000 He wants that, but that's impossible.

00:13:25.000 Whenever we're talking about tens of millions of people, you know, you can't simply, you know, keep it somewhere in shadow and rewrite everything.

00:13:34.000 He can't control the information flow in history.

00:13:42.000 I can assure you, his ambitions will grow.

00:13:47.000 If Ukraine will not withstand, then he will go on. 0.87

00:13:51.000 And surely he already has the textbooks of history who tells who is the real owner of the territory of Poland, Hungary, etc.

00:14:02.000 So he will move on.

00:14:04.000 That's why I told you, that's a bit pragmatic.

00:14:07.000 To stop Putin.

00:14:08.000 In order not to take any risk, I mean, for the world not to take any risk, first thing.

00:14:13.000 And that is why we talked about NATO, about your families, about the Europeans.

00:14:17.000 Why the world should take any risks?

00:14:20.000 For not taking a risk, for people not to be in fear, you need to stop them.

00:14:24.000 We need to stop him for not destroying us.

00:14:28.000 We are fighting for our survival, and you are fighting not only for our survival, but for your risks.

00:14:37.000 This possible but large risks.

00:14:39.000 I'm not wishing you this.

00:14:42.000 I wish only peace, just for you to understand correctly.

00:14:45.000 But why should you have all those risks coming from an inadequate person?

00:14:50.000 Not necessary.

00:14:51.000 The third thing, what is happening?

00:14:53.000 Let's be pragmatic once again.

00:14:55.000 If Putin will succeed?

00:14:57.000 Well, there are countries in the world, there are certain leaders in the world who's been at power for many years, well, part of their life, who, in your directions, in...

00:15:10.000 In the Pacific region, who are looking at Putin.

00:15:15.000 So, if he will succeed, then they think, why shouldn't they try once again?

00:15:20.000 And that is also a big risk for you, for several of your allies.

00:15:26.000 And risks, you know, it's not only about the lives of the people, even though that's point number one.

00:15:31.000 It's also about the economy.

00:15:33.000 You are participating in many directions in businesses where the war is happening.

00:15:39.000 There's no business or the economy.

00:15:41.000 So if the war, the war will have an impact on the investors as well.

00:15:47.000 So I think you're also interested in that.

00:15:49.000 I'm not talking about pragmatic things here.

00:15:51.000 There's political things that...

00:15:55.000 We kind of hide and we're saying that, you know, economy is the aspect number one.

00:16:03.000 Money is everything number one.

00:16:06.000 It's important for the taxpayers.

00:16:07.000 And we're saying that we're not interested in politics.

00:16:10.000 But the victory of Putin is impossible because...

00:16:16.000 It's a failure.

00:16:17.000 A failure of the United States as the leader of the world.

00:16:20.000 And that's a policy already.

00:16:21.000 It has an impact on many things.

00:16:23.000 On your currency, on your economy, on the stability and the strength of U.S. dollars and the presence of your currency in the world and your business.

00:16:32.000 So it has an impact on all that.

00:16:34.000 On the prices, on the energy sources.

00:16:39.000 And many countries of the world are banks in their economy on the energy sources.

00:16:44.000 So I think that all of those aspects, the political aspects, they are interwoven with some economic or other projects.

00:16:53.000 That is why I think these are big risks that might be coming if Putin is victorious or the victory of the modern crumbling of Russia.

00:17:03.000 Look at other things.

00:17:05.000 Whenever there was a war in the world against a big country, a war for territory, It involved a significant amount of people.

00:17:16.000 It all went back.

00:17:17.000 It all went away because you can't completely rewrite the history of the tens of millions of people.

00:17:24.000 This is impossible.

00:17:25.000 So there's another risk.

00:17:27.000 For example, the United States is willing to put an end to this war very fast.

00:17:32.000 And it searches for any way of dialogue with Putin.

00:17:36.000 This is happening right now.

00:17:37.000 So let's be frank.

00:17:39.000 I don't want to criticize this policy.

00:17:41.000 This is the choice.

00:17:43.000 If this policy will result in ending the war in a fair peace for Ukraine, we are absolutely grateful to you.

00:17:51.000 But I would focus your attention to the thing that Putin, as in any dictator or an autocrat, he needs applause.

00:18:02.000 He needs recognition.

00:18:08.000 He cannot keep himself alive in the isolation.

00:18:13.000 And if there are leaders like the United States, like China, I mean, countries big in terms of the population economy, if these countries will recognize him, then he will kind of use it to survive and he will continue.

00:18:27.000 There will be more risks.

00:18:29.000 So, the United States willing to build the economic relationship with Russians.

00:18:35.000 For example, and some from Trump's team or some from the business, they're looking at the policy of the president.

00:18:43.000 They think that the war is going to end soon and we'll make the big investments, I don't know, in raw materials and minerals in Russia, in territories.

00:18:54.000 Look, there will not be come years in Russia.

00:18:57.000 All those money will be, you know, will gone in vain.

00:19:01.000 They will disappear because in Russia, There's many nations who, at a certain time, are being occupied by the Russian Empire.

00:19:12.000 This is just to add to your words about the Russian Empire, about the risks.

00:19:17.000 There's the Caucasus. 0.94

00:19:18.000 They are absolutely different people.

00:19:20.000 Believe me, I've been working there for several years.

00:19:23.000 I've been to Caucasus.

00:19:24.000 I've been to many countries, to many parts of the country.

00:19:28.000 They've destroyed their languages. 0.99

00:19:31.000 Everywhere where there is a nation whose culture, whose language is right, is being destroyed, their life, their cuisine is being destroyed, you know, they're just waiting for the moment, for the right moment.

00:19:46.000 There will be a right moment.

00:19:48.000 And then it will all kind of explode.

00:19:50.000 There will be no unity in Russia because they were capturing other nations. 0.99

00:19:56.000 So it will be kind of a boomerang that it will all return to them.

00:20:00.000 And just the same in case in Ukraine, they're capturing our territories. 0.93

00:20:04.000 And I think that's going to be a big challenge because not me, maybe not my children, maybe my grandchildren, but still...

00:20:17.000 In the history, there will be always like you were taking something that belonged to you, but there will be people who know that their grandparents are Buried on the occupied territories, and they know that their homes were there,

00:20:33.000 and the people of Ukraine will return for what belonged to them.

00:20:37.000 And in this case, that pragmatism of the United States or Europe or anyone willing to invest in Russia, they will lose that because there will be a war on the territory of Russia.

00:20:49.000 there will be a war and it doesn't matter where the war is coming from because war is

00:20:58.000 The point that you're making, you mentioned here, and I think it's very important, the coalition that's forming around Russia with regard to Ukraine.

00:21:04.000 You've seen Iranian drones in the field in eastern Ukraine.

00:21:08.000 You've seen Chinese soldiers on the field.

00:21:10.000 You've seen North Koreans on the field.

00:21:11.000 The coalition is drawing together via this war.

00:21:15.000 And so when you talk about the formation of an anti-American coalition, that anti-American coalition is coming together in the field.

00:21:20.000 Maybe you can talk about that.

00:21:22.000 Yeah.

00:21:23.000 I was always surprised that the United States were kind of searching for an approach to Russians.

00:21:35.000 Now, I'm grateful for their desire to stop, but I want to be clearly understood.

00:21:42.000 The Russians will always want and desire the destruction of the United States as the leader, the destruction of the U.S. economy. 0.99

00:21:52.000 Believe us, we were born in the Soviet Union.

00:21:57.000 We had it all brought up in schools.

00:22:01.000 This is the policy of the Soviet Union.

00:22:03.000 This is the policy that is now returned by Putin.

00:22:09.000 He returns the policy of the Russian Empire. 0.66

00:22:11.000 He's not mentioning the Soviet Union because he understands that not all the people are...

00:22:18.000 Happy without Soviet Union. 0.95

00:22:20.000 He talks about this empire.

00:22:21.000 It's all the same.

00:22:22.000 The Russians and the empire, it's all the same. 0.99

00:22:26.000 Their main enemy, it's you, it's the United States.

00:22:30.000 So whenever they are kind of...

00:22:34.000 Willing to take the influence over the European states, over those who have become independent but were former parts of the Soviet Union.

00:22:44.000 Look, after that, he will come for the United States because it can't be different because you, the United States, is an enemy for the Russians. 0.68

00:22:52.000 So now you can see this coalition and it exists.

00:22:57.000 And they're not hiding this.

00:23:00.000 Absolutely not.

00:23:03.000 Iran is completely with them. 1.00

00:23:06.000 Like, completely.

00:23:07.000 Iran is willing to have the destruction of the United States, just like the United States, the North Korea. 0.99

00:23:15.000 They're completely with them.

00:23:17.000 Like, all of them.

00:23:19.000 Are saying that they are fighting against the United States on the territory of Ukraine.

00:23:24.000 And there's the reason for saying that.

00:23:27.000 They hide the weakness of their army in that way because they failed to destroy us completely.

00:23:32.000 We are now talking in the center of Kiev, in the center of Europe, close to San Sufi.

00:23:37.000 That's a fact.

00:23:38.000 And they're showing this.

00:23:40.000 China, as I told you... 0.97

00:23:42.000 You know, just recently, the Chinese said that there's no evidence that China is somehow engaged in those combat operations.

00:23:58.000 Look, it's all the same.

00:24:00.000 I have a question.

00:24:02.000 We have an information that China is working.

00:24:10.000 Chinese are working on Russian factories and they're producing drones. 1.00

00:24:14.000 The drones that are used for killing Ukrainians. 0.99

00:24:19.000 We have evidences, we have facts.

00:24:21.000 Now tell me, for example, what do you think?

00:24:25.000 If the leadership of China is unaware of this, well, let's imagine they are not aware that Russia...

00:24:33.000 has got some technical experts, professionals from China, and they're paying salaries because we have passports, we have the information on their salaries, we have all this information.

00:24:45.000 We can show this information.

00:24:47.000 We have all of that.

00:24:48.000 Now tell me.

00:24:49.000 If China, if the leadership of China is unaware of this, for example, and the citizens of China, the technical workers, are working in Russia and producing the drones, and these drones are killing us, the Ukrainians. 0.90

00:25:03.000 Now, if the Chinese leadership is unaware that the citizens of China, and we took some of them as prisoners of war, they're fighting with their weapons, they're killing us, then tell me, is that it?

00:25:19.000 Sort of a justification to his situation.

00:25:24.000 Wouldn't be...

00:25:26.000 Is that unfair whenever we're saying that China is supporting Russia?

00:25:31.000 I think that we are saying in a fair way because Chinese are not working on our factories. 1.00

00:25:37.000 They're not producing the weapons that we're using to defend against Russians. 0.95

00:25:41.000 The Chinese are not fighting alongside our men and weapons in the armed forces of Ukraine as there are like hundreds of people.

00:25:49.000 So that's it.

00:25:50.000 So maybe the leadership is unaware, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be responding to that.

00:25:56.000 You should respond to that.

00:25:58.000 And that is why all this situation, and in any case, kind of engages you or involves you into a situation that there is this alliance with Russia on top.

00:26:16.000 And Ukraine, it's... 0.80

00:26:20.000 You know, just as a cornerstone, as an indicator.

00:26:27.000 So whenever I'm answering your questions, you can see where I am and how I'm asking questions.

00:26:33.000 What do you think?

00:26:34.000 When the United States is saying that we are in between Russia and Ukraine and someone is exerting pressure upon us, do you...

00:26:43.000 Understand why am I struggling to understand all of these things.

00:26:48.000 Kind of, I'm demonstrating, the whole people are demonstrating that we are fighting.

00:26:52.000 We are fighting for your rights, just as for our own.

00:26:57.000 We are fighting for our values, just the same as yours.

00:27:01.000 We're fighting with Russians, with your enemy, not with your friends, but with your enemies. 0.93

00:27:07.000 And we...

00:27:09.000 We want to have this understanding in the United States.

00:27:12.000 Nothing more.

00:27:13.000 The understanding and the recognition of the fact that we are partners.

00:27:18.000 Well, you know, President Trump is a savvy negotiator.

00:27:21.000 I believe that he will, in the end, get to a solution that is peace through strength based.

00:27:25.000 And if not, then the war will just continue.

00:27:27.000 Because without peace through strength, there is no answer.

00:27:30.000 It's true.

00:27:31.000 President Zelensky, I really appreciate that.

00:27:32.000 Thank you so much.

00:27:33.000 Thank you for everything.

00:27:35.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment.

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00:29:40.000 So, some of my big takeaways from the interview with President Zelensky.

00:29:44.000 Did I get all of my questions answered in the way that I wanted?

00:29:46.000 I mean, I can't say that all the questions were answered to my full satisfaction.

00:29:49.000 I don't know where every dollar is going in Ukraine.

00:29:52.000 I don't know that all my questions were answered with regard to, say, electoral problems in Ukraine or corruption problems in Ukraine.

00:30:00.000 When it comes to the United States and our allies, one of the sort of great failures of American foreign policy over the course of the last 80 years, since the end of World War II, is this bizarre idea in the United States that if our allies are imperfect, somehow it makes sense to abandon them.

00:30:16.000 This is what we did in Vietnam.

00:30:18.000 Our allies were imperfect, so we abandoned them, and then the Viet Cong. 1.00

00:30:22.000 The same thing happened in Afghanistan.

00:30:24.000 Our allies were seriously imperfect.

00:30:26.000 And when I say imperfect, I mean there were a lot of terrible people involved in the Northern Alliance and then in the government in Afghanistan.

00:30:33.000 Tremendous corruption.

00:30:34.000 And also it turns out that the people on the other side were significantly worse.

00:30:37.000 And so in determining what's happening in Russia, Ukraine, and what should happen next, the question is less whether Ukraine is perfect.

00:30:44.000 It certainly is not.

00:30:46.000 And the question is much more, what exactly does Russia want?

00:30:49.000 What is in America's interest?

00:30:51.000 And I can tell you this.

00:30:53.000 What is not in America's interest is a growing, more powerful Russia. 0.74

00:30:56.000 Because in determining how to negotiate an end to the Russia-Ukraine war that originally broke out in 2014 with the Russian takeover of Donbass and Crimea and then was reignited by the full-scale Russian invasion of 2022, it's not enough to try to figure out what the quote-unquote rational middle ground looks like.

00:31:12.000 That feels like what the Trump administration is trying to do.

00:31:15.000 Find a solution.

00:31:17.000 Well, I mean, you can find a solution, but unless you have a way to actually implement the solution, any solution that you propose is meaningless.

00:31:25.000 No matter how hard you try, you cannot impose this solution from the outside in the way that the United States would if, for example, we had boots on the ground, and we don't want to have boots on the ground, and that means somehow you have to get the Russians to the table. 0.85

00:31:36.000 Both sides need to be at the table.

00:31:38.000 The Ukrainians are at the table.

00:31:39.000 The Russians are not at the table. 1.00

00:31:41.000 Now, we are not the dominant force in the region, nor do we want to be.

00:31:44.000 However, The Ukrainians being at the table means that it's now time for the Russians to come to the table. 0.98

00:31:50.000 So how do you get them to the table?

00:31:52.000 Vladimir Zelensky, as he talked about in this interview, he's already agreed to an immediate 30-day ceasefire.

00:31:57.000 The Russians have not. 1.00

00:31:58.000 He's already agreed to a rare-earth minerals deal with the United States that is heavily, heavily slanted toward the United States.

00:32:05.000 We already know what the Ukrainians want. 0.60

00:32:07.000 They want the Russians to stop the war.

00:32:09.000 The Ukrainians did not, in fact, start this war.

00:32:12.000 They did not cross a Russian border.

00:32:14.000 They want security guarantees, more durable security guarantees than the ones they gave in 1994 to give up their nuclear weapons.

00:32:22.000 The Ukrainians want security guarantees that are material realities, not just promises.

00:32:26.000 Again, the Ukrainians have already figured out that European and American promises tend to fade over time.

00:32:33.000 They gave up their own nuclear weapons for a promise that the U.S. and U.K. would respect Ukrainian territorial sovereignty, and it didn't work out for them very well.

00:32:40.000 The Ukrainians want the freedom to pursue a closer relationship with the EU and NATO.

00:32:44.000 Again, that makes sense.

00:32:45.000 Because, again, the Russians continue to press.

00:32:48.000 So the Ukrainians want to press back the other way. 0.82

00:32:51.000 What Vladimir Zelensky basically wants here is what happened at the end of the Korean War.

00:32:55.000 An armistice.

00:32:55.000 In 1953, South Korea and North Korea, the two sides, they drew a demilitarized zone.

00:33:00.000 They agreed to cessation of hostilities and repatriation of POWs.

00:33:04.000 And then the war ended.

00:33:05.000 Now, officially, the war is still happening.

00:33:07.000 But in practice, the war ended because...

00:33:09.000 North Korea understands that if it walks over the South Korean border, it will be obliterated.

00:33:14.000 Partially, by the way, because American troops are stationed on that border.

00:33:17.000 Now, the Ukrainians are not asking for American troops stationed on their border.

00:33:20.000 They want security guarantees.

00:33:21.000 They want probably some European force.

00:33:23.000 We know what the Ukrainians want. 0.95

00:33:25.000 We know what they want.

00:33:27.000 They're ready for an armistice today.

00:33:28.000 They're at the table.

00:33:29.000 The real question in all of this, the question that people do not want to ask because they don't like the answer, is what exactly do the Russians want?

00:33:36.000 What would get the Russians to the table? 0.99

00:33:38.000 Well, here's the thing.

00:33:39.000 We actually know what the Russians want.

00:33:41.000 According to a speech that Vladimir Putin made last June, he wants, one, no NATO membership for Ukraine, ever.

00:33:47.000 Two, Ukrainian recognition of Crimea and Donbass' Russian territory.

00:33:51.000 Three, Ukraine's demilitarization and what he calls denazification.

00:33:55.000 What he really means is he wants the installation of a puppet regime in Kyiv.

00:33:59.000 And four, the lifting of all anti-Russia sanctions.

00:34:03.000 I mean, that is just called surrender.

00:34:05.000 Now, Ukraine can't surrender her entire government and autonomy.

00:34:08.000 And live at the whim of Vladimir Putin, who has killed literally tens of thousands of Ukrainians in an aggressive war and kidnapped tens of thousands of Ukrainian children into Russia.

00:34:17.000 So again, I ask, what would get Russia to the table? 0.61

00:34:20.000 Now, Steve Witkoff, the supposedly magical negotiator that President Trump has deployed to Iran, Gaza, Ukraine, seems to think that either Ukraine is the problem or that Russia can be wheedled into dropping its core demands.

00:34:32.000 That if you tweet hard enough at them, suddenly Vladimir Putin becomes friendly.

00:34:35.000 Now, he and the administration are threatening to walk away from negotiations if the two sides don't come together.

00:34:40.000 This misses the entire point.

00:34:42.000 Russia would love for that to happen.

00:34:44.000 They want the war to continue because what Russia is saying is they want negotiation.

00:34:50.000 And that's code.

00:34:51.000 They don't actually want negotiation.

00:34:53.000 They want a continuation.

00:34:54.000 What they want is to either take giant chunks out of Ukraine until they eat the whole thing over time, or they want the war to continue until the West gives way. 0.86

00:35:04.000 Why?

00:35:05.000 Because Ukraine is extraordinarily key to Russia's entire vision of itself as an empire.

00:35:09.000 And that empire is geared in absolutely irremediable fashion against the United States of America.

00:35:15.000 See, Vladimir Putin sees the West as irredeemably decadent, directed at containing the aspirations of the Russian people.

00:35:21.000 So in November 2024, he gave a speech at the Valdai Club in Moscow.

00:35:25.000 And there he said, quote, the peril lies in the imposition of totalitarian ideologies and making them the norm as exemplified by the current state of Western liberalism.

00:35:34.000 This modern Western liberalism, in my view, has degenerated into extreme intolerance and aggression towards any alternative or sovereign and independent thought.

00:35:41.000 Russia's role is certainly not limited to protecting and preserving itself.

00:35:44.000 It may sound a bit grand, but Russia's very existence guarantees that the world will retain its wide color gamut, diversity and complexity, which is the key to success. 0.89

00:35:52.000 That's a direct quote from Putin.

00:35:54.000 Now, that sounds pretty hypocritical, coming from Putin, talking about the tyranny of Western liberalism and his...

00:35:59.000 Desire for a thousand flowers to bloom.

00:36:01.000 He's one of the most repressive dictators on planet Earth.

00:36:04.000 He's a man who has launched aggressive war against multiple neighbors and supports terrorist regimes across the globe.

00:36:10.000 And Putin's take on Ukraine in the same speech sounds like the absolute photo negative of reality.

00:36:15.000 Here's what he said in that speech.

00:36:16.000 Again, this is just last year.

00:36:17.000 Quote, So that Ukraine can ultimately become an independent sovereign state, not a tool in the hands of third countries that is used for their interests.

00:36:35.000 He's accusing the West of using Ukraine as a tool against Russia.

00:36:38.000 But it's Putin who has repeatedly invaded Ukraine, not the West.

00:36:41.000 He wishes Ukraine to be a permanent tool in his hands. 0.98

00:36:44.000 This all sounds like fantasy.

00:36:46.000 It doesn't make a lot of sense on his face.

00:36:48.000 What he's saying, however, does make a sort of perverse sense if you understand its philosophical underpinning.

00:36:53.000 To understand what exactly Putin is saying, you actually have to examine the work of the man known as Vladimir Putin's brain.

00:36:59.000 This guy named Alexander Dugan.

00:37:00.000 I spent a fair bit of time reading Dugan's work because you can't actually understand your geopolitical enemies until you study them.

00:37:06.000 And there's no question that Dugan is an enemy of the United States.

00:37:09.000 He openly says as much.

00:37:10.000 Dugan got his start as the co-founder of the National Bolshevik Party.

00:37:14.000 This is a party that started in the aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union.

00:37:17.000 It was essentially a fascist party calling for a restored Russian empire and centralized economics.

00:37:22.000 The flag of the party was literally a mashup of the Soviet flag and the Nazi flag.

00:37:26.000 While Dugan was working with the NBP in 1997, he wrote a seminal book called Foundations of Geopolitics.

00:37:32.000 That book was then apparently used as a textbook at the Russian General Staff Academy.

00:37:35.000 So Dugan's theory is essentially this.

00:37:37.000 He says the world is split between what he terms teleurocracy, which is land power, and thalasocracy, which is maritime power.

00:37:47.000 Bureaucracies are characterized, quote, at the civilizational level by collectivism and hierarchy.

00:37:52.000 Phallisocracies are characterized by nomadism. 0.50

00:37:55.000 He says, quote, the individual as the most mobile part of the collective is elevated to the highest value, while ethical and legal norms become diluted relative immobile.

00:38:03.000 In short, teleurocracy, land power, Russia, as we'll see, is about faith, land, and the collective.

00:38:10.000 Phalasocracy is about secularism, globalism, the individual.

00:38:13.000 These powers correspond to the power of what he calls Eurasia, centered around Russia, and Atlanticist power centered around America.

00:38:22.000 Now, according to Dugan, the Atlanticist power, predominantly the United States in the aftermath of World War II, has sought to expand its hegemony in the quote-unquote rimlands.

00:38:30.000 The rimlands are the areas that surround Russia, so as to create a new mondialist new world order. 0.97

00:38:36.000 Now, we should pause here for a moment to point out that this is nonsense.

00:38:40.000 America is not, in fact, some sort of secular leftist entity on the world stage.

00:38:46.000 America has very much been characterized throughout its history by both religious belief, And meritocracy, which is a form of earned hierarchy.

00:38:53.000 Furthermore, it was American hegemony in the aftermath of World War II that prevented the collapse of the Western world into the absolute secular barbarity of Soviet communism. 0.64

00:39:02.000 The Soviets were secularists.

00:39:04.000 But for Dugan to explain why America has to be confronted, he has to strawman America and completely rewrite global history.

00:39:10.000 America must instead now become the evil imperialist power hell-bent on global domination.

00:39:14.000 American hegemony must be treated as some sort of effort by left minded globalists to flatten religion and export left wing social values.

00:39:21.000 In order to rewrite history, then, Dugan has to unspool a theory containing references to the Council on Foreign Relations and the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission.

00:39:29.000 It's a theory that would make Alex Jones blush.

00:39:32.000 Meanwhile, Russia, a spiritual being, not a country, that's what he calls it, is what he calls the axis of history because, quote, only Russia can speak on behalf of Heartland with full geopolitical foundation.

00:39:43.000 Russia acts as a sort of spiritual force in the world, according to Alexander Dugin, Vladimir Putin's brain.

00:39:48.000 Quote, the Russian people, i.e.

00:39:50.000 Russia, are endowed with a particular type of religiosity and culture, which differs sharply from the Catholic-Protestant West.

00:39:56.000 By the way, we should make a note there.

00:39:57.000 Many of the people who are religious in the Catholic-Protestant West seem to believe they have common cause with the Russians.

00:40:02.000 Dugin is saying no.

00:40:04.000 He is saying that Russia differs sharply from the Catholic-Protestant West and from the post-Christian civilization that has developed there.

00:40:10.000 Russia's cultural and geopolitical antithesis should be taken to be the West as a whole and not just one of its constituent countries.

00:40:17.000 Quote, It is not a question of an infinite expansion of the Russian living space, but the establishment of a special Russian type of worldview, which is accentuated eschatologically and claims to be the last word in earthly history.

00:40:29.000 This is the supreme supremacy of the nation as a God-bearing people.

00:40:33.000 Consequently, theoretically, there is no people, culture, or territory on the planet whose fate and path would be indifferent to the Russian consciousness.

00:40:39.000 This manifests itself in the unshakable belief of Russians in the final triumph of truth, spirit, and justice, not only within the Russian state, but everywhere. 0.87

00:40:47.000 To deprive the Russians of this eschatological faith is tantamount to their spiritual scoping. 0.58

00:40:52.000 Russians care about everything and everyone, and therefore, in the final analysis, the interests of the Russian people are not limited to the Russian ethnos, the Russian empire, or even the whole of Eurasia.

00:41:00.000 This transcendent aspect of the Russian nation needs to be taken into account when developing a future geopolitical strategy." 0.91

00:41:07.000 Okay, now if that sounds crazily messianic, that's because it is. 0.72

00:41:10.000 What does this mean?

00:41:12.000 In practical terms, it means, according to Dugin, Russia is an empire with global aspirations, and it must be an empire.

00:41:20.000 As Dugin states, quote, Russia is the geographical axis of history, which simply cannot fail to fulfill its geopolitical destiny, regardless of external and transitory factors.

00:41:29.000 He says the Russian people are so connected with geopolitical reality that space itself, its experience, its awareness, its spiritual perception, have shaped the psychology of the people, becoming one of the most important definitions of its identity, of its essence.

00:41:41.000 Unlike Rome, the first Rome, Moscow and Russia have in their imperial impulse a deep teleological, eschatological meaning.

00:41:48.000 Eschatological means like the end of times.

00:41:51.000 The status of regional power, according to Dugan, denies Russia its aspirations.

00:41:55.000 It's not enough to say, Russia, you know what, you can exist in your own sphere of power and that's it.

00:41:59.000 According to Dugan, that's not enough.

00:42:01.000 That would be quote-unquote tantamount to suicide for the Russian nation.

00:42:05.000 If we were to relegate Russia to the status of regional power, that would reverse the vector of Russian history.

00:42:10.000 Russia as a regional power would represent a repudiation of that deep impulse of the nation, which lies at the heart of its highest and deepest identity.

00:42:18.000 The loss of imperial scale for Russians means the end and failure of their participation in civilization, the defeat of their spiritual and cultural system of values, the fall of their universalist and messianic aspirations.

00:42:28.000 the devaluation and debunking of the entire national ideology that animated many generations of the Russian people and gave strength and energy for exploits, creation, struggle,

00:42:36.000 Again, according to Dugin, if Russia is not an empire, it's nothing.

00:42:43.000 And what is the big Russian enemy?

00:42:45.000 You know what it is.

00:42:47.000 Atlanticism.

00:42:48.000 So what exactly should Russia be doing?

00:42:52.000 Well, they should be engaging in, quote, the rejection of U.S. strategic control.

00:42:56.000 And the rejection of the supremacy of economic market liberal values.

00:43:01.000 Instead, Dugin calls for the building of a new empire, an anti-American coalition.

00:43:06.000 That anti-American coalition is directed against America, which he calls, quote-unquote, the common enemy.

00:43:13.000 America, the common enemy, in his terminology, will be the glue that holds together the Russian-led world. 0.93

00:43:18.000 And this is the Russian mission, according to Dugin.

00:43:20.000 Again, Dugin is the philosopher who most reflects Putin.

00:43:23.000 Quote.

00:43:24.000 Eurasia is predestined to be geographically and strategically united.

00:43:28.000 Eurasia, by the way, is all of Europe and all of Asia.

00:43:31.000 This, he says, is a strictly scientific geopolitical fact.

00:43:35.000 He says Russia must inevitably be at the center of such unification.

00:43:38.000 The driving force of unification must inevitably be the Russian people.

00:43:42.000 What exactly are the borders?

00:43:44.000 All of Europe.

00:43:45.000 He calls for the eventual Finlandization of all of Europe.

00:43:48.000 Finland, of course, was a titularly neutral power during the Cold War that was not neutral at all.

00:43:52.000 It was effectively run by the Soviets.

00:43:54.000 The main scapegoat, he says it over and over, of the planetary new empire will be the United States.

00:43:59.000 The undermining of whose power, up to the complete destruction of this geopolitical structure, will be carried out systematically and uncompromisingly by all participants in the new empire.

00:44:08.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment first.

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00:46:13.000 What exactly does Russia require in order to do this, in order to fulfill its messianic mission?

00:46:18.000 Well, first off, Dugin argues, the destruction of NATO.

00:46:21.000 He argues that NATO represents the Atlanticist mission, meaning the American mission, in platonic form.

00:46:26.000 NATO needs to be broken.

00:46:28.000 He says Moscow's task is to wrest Europe away from U.S. NATO control.

00:46:32.000 At the very least, Russia has to retain military parity with NATO.

00:46:36.000 Meanwhile, the United States itself should be undermined from within.

00:46:38.000 Again, Dugan is arguing this in 1997, using means ranging from sectarian and racial conflict to support for domestic isolationism.

00:46:45.000 Quote, the West, as America, is Russia's total geopolitical adversary, the pole of the direct opposite trend to Eurasia, the headquarters and center of Atlanticism.

00:46:54.000 It is necessary to counteract U.S. Atlanticist geopolitics at all levels and in all regions of the world, trying to weaken, demoralize, deceive, and ultimately defeat the enemy as much as possible.

00:47:04.000 It is especially important to bring geopolitical turmoil into the U.S. domestic reality.

00:47:08.000 by encouraging all kinds of separatism, various ethnic, social, and racial conflict,

00:47:13.000 Actively supporting all dissident movements of extremist, racist, and sectarian groups that destabilize internal political processes in the United States.

00:47:20.000 At the same time, it makes sense to support isolationist tendencies in U.S. politics, the theses of those, often right-wing Republican circles, that believe the U.S. should confine itself to its domestic problems.

00:47:29.000 This state of affairs, and I'm quoting Dugan here, is highly advantageous to Russia, even if isolationism is carried out within the original Monroe Doctrine wording, i.e.

00:47:38.000 if the U.S. limits its influences to America's.

00:47:40.000 This does not mean Eurasia should give up on destabilizing the Latin American world by seeking to remove certain regions from U.S. control.

00:47:46.000 All levels of geopolitical pressure on the U.S. must be engaged simultaneously.

00:47:51.000 As Alexander Dugan writing in 1997, Putin's brain.

00:47:54.000 Does some of that sound like things that are happening right now?

00:47:58.000 Then there's the question of territory.

00:48:00.000 So Dugan posits that Russia should use economic power, political power, and when necessary, military power to achieve the restoration of its heartland empire.

00:48:09.000 An empire that's supposed to stretch all the way to the Atlantic Ocean.

00:48:12.000 Because, according to Dugin, the Soviet Empire, which was, in effect, a manifestation of Russian spiritual ambitions, was rooted in landlocked status and that locked them in and boxed them in.

00:48:25.000 Dugin says friendly puppet states in European countries would do the job well.

00:48:28.000 Quote, in the West, Russia should have maritime borders.

00:48:31.000 This is a strategic imperative for the geopolitical development of Eurasia.

00:48:34.000 It was the absence of such borders and the presence, instead of them, of a landline crossing Europe in the middle, artificially and forcibly, that ultimately led to the geopolitical loss of the USSR.

00:48:44.000 By the way, worth noting here, this is why when Vladimir Putin has said that the destruction of the USSR was a geopolitical catastrophe, he does not mean that he's a communist.

00:48:52.000 He means that the Soviet Union was simply the latest, greatest manifestation of Russian imperial ambitions.

00:49:00.000 And the failure of the USSR was a failure of territorial holding.

00:49:04.000 Well, now we can see the importance of Ukraine in the Russian scheme.

00:49:07.000 Ukraine as an independent entity represents a complete rejection of Alexander Dugin and Vladimir Putin's entire theory, from Russian identity, to the messianic dream, to the geopolitical desire for control of the Rimland, Ukraine being a Rimland.

00:49:19.000 Dugin argues, remember, this is all the way back in 1997, this is almost three decades ago, quote, Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical sense.

00:49:26.000 It has no special cultural heritage, no geographical uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness.

00:49:30.000 The historical meaning of Ukraine is reflected in its very name, Ukraine, i.e.

00:49:34.000 outskirts, border territories.

00:49:36.000 Ukraine, according to Dugin, has been relegated to the status of a protective cordon against Russia and ought to be abolished.

00:49:42.000 Quote, for this reason, the independent existence of Ukraine, especially within its current borders, can only make sense as a cordon sanitaire.

00:49:49.000 As opposing elements in geopolitical orientation will not allow the country to fully join either the eastern or western bloc.

00:49:56.000 All this dooms Ukraine to a puppet existence and geopolitical service to the Thalesocratic strategy in Europe. 0.79

00:50:02.000 The existence of Ukraine in its current borders and with current status of a sovereign state is tantamount to a monstrous blow to Russia's geopolitical security, tantamount to an invasion of its territory. 0.54

00:50:12.000 The continued existence of a unitary Ukraine is unacceptable. 0.55

00:50:15.000 Now that sounds exactly like Vladimir Putin last year.

00:50:17.000 Exactly like it, right?

00:50:19.000 Ukraine is a threat by the very virtue of existing. 0.99

00:50:24.000 Ukraine, says Vladimir Putin, has been weaponized by the West against Russia.

00:50:28.000 They were saying this back in 1997, long before Euromaidan.

00:50:32.000 At the time, 1997, Russia had no capacity to simply retake Ukraine.

00:50:36.000 And so at the time, Dugin recommended that Ukraine essentially be eaten piecemeal, which is exactly what Russia has done. 0.83

00:50:42.000 He said that the East should be turned into a puppet regime.

00:50:45.000 That's what happened in the Donbass.

00:50:46.000 Crimea should be placed under direct strategic control for Moscow.

00:50:49.000 That's what's happened.

00:50:50.000 Central Ukraine, he was hoping, would gradually be turned into a puppet regime.

00:50:54.000 The West would essentially be incorporated into Alexander Dugin's phantom.

00:50:57.000 Now, Dugin wrote all of this 30 years ago.

00:51:15.000 And now we understand just what Vladimir Putin is doing in Ukraine.

00:51:18.000 He's attempting to reconstitute Russian Empire, to restore Russian soul through its messianic mission, to break NATO. 0.82

00:51:26.000 When Putin said the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical disaster of his lifetime, again, he did not mean communism had to rule.

00:51:33.000 He meant Russian ambitions have always been imperial, territorial, that the regionalization of Russia is a fundamental assault on the Russian identity itself.

00:51:42.000 So now you can see the actual Russian goal.

00:51:44.000 You either have to subjugate or fully incorporate Ukraine. 0.95

00:51:46.000 The only way Russia will ever accept a deal will be if it leaves open every possibility of reinvading and then completing its plans. 0.50

00:51:54.000 This is not a border dispute.

00:51:56.000 This is not a border dispute.

00:51:57.000 It is a dispute of whether Ukraine should exist.

00:52:00.000 Ukraine wishes to exist. 0.92

00:52:02.000 Putin wishes for it not to exist.

00:52:04.000 Now, by the way, Alexander Dugan makes that absolutely clear.

00:52:07.000 Like today, he's still alive and he's still writing.

00:52:09.000 In a new book released just this month entitled The Trump Revolution.

00:52:12.000 Dugan makes the case that President Trump's election represents a surprise realization of his goals.

00:52:16.000 At first, he suggests that perhaps Trumpism being in opposition to leftist social politics of blue America could coexist with a Russian dream.

00:52:24.000 Which is still a reduction of America's role in the world, but at least sounds passable.

00:52:39.000 But then the mask slips.

00:52:41.000 It turns out.

00:52:41.000 Dugan is not celebrating the end of USAID transgender propaganda or the rise of a heartland American empire, but the end of American power per se, because America, according to Dugan, is evil.

00:52:53.000 We say that Russia is governed by God because its very existence defies explanation, but America too has a mystery. 0.56

00:52:58.000 How can a nation with such foundations, such people, and such mental disorders become the world's leading superpower? 1.00

00:53:04.000 This suggests someone far more serious and invisible is in control, and it does not appear to be God.

00:53:10.000 Okay, so who do you think he's talking about there?

00:53:14.000 He's essentially accusing America of being satanic.

00:53:16.000 Not only is America evil, the only path forward for Russia is multipolarity, meaning that America retreats from the world and Russia takes more power. 0.92

00:53:24.000 And Dugan hopes that President Trump will usher that in.

00:53:27.000 Quote, paradoxically, the new post-liberal world order that Trump is building is leading objectively to multipolarity.

00:53:32.000 By declaring his ambition to make America a great power, Trump has inadvertently opened the door for others to do the same.

00:53:37.000 All of that begins with the destruction of Ukraine.

00:53:42.000 Ukraine, says Dugin, is the cataclysmic ultimate conflict.

00:53:53.000 We must win the war in Ukraine.

00:53:55.000 Liberate the entire territory of this former country from the Nazi regime, regardless of Trump's victory or anything else. 0.80

00:54:00.000 This imperative remains unchanged.

00:54:02.000 Just as the ancient Roman consul Cato the Elder used to say, Carthage must be destroyed.

00:54:06.000 In our case, Kiev must be taken.

00:54:09.000 So Dugin's strategy and Putin's strategy is simple.

00:54:12.000 Don't stop the war. 0.67

00:54:13.000 According to Dugin, Trump is going to cave.

00:54:16.000 Quote, hypothetically, Trump might present Moscow with a harsh ultimatum, demanding we immediately halt the special military operation.

00:54:22.000 That's the Russian term for the attack on Ukraine.

00:54:24.000 However, this is highly unlikely because as a realist and a pragmatist, he fully understands Putin will not comply.

00:54:30.000 And what would happen then?

00:54:31.000 Trump promised to stop the war, but he'd fail to do so.

00:54:33.000 Therefore, it would be better to set aside such promises, at least until our victory is secured.

00:54:37.000 According to Dugin.

00:54:38.000 After Ukraine, the Russian ambitions don't end. 0.85

00:54:41.000 They will utilize the strategies Alexander Dugin has laid forth to threaten other Rimlands, ranging from the Baltics to the Middle East.

00:54:47.000 They will ally themselves with enemies of the United States everywhere. 0.51

00:54:50.000 In Foundations of Geopolitics, Alexander Dugin makes special reference to alliance with Iran.

00:54:55.000 In his new book, he speaks highly of a coalitional relationship with China.

00:54:58.000 Russia, in short, is not a regional power simply reacting to the supposed aggression of the Atlanticists, a la Jeffrey Sachs or John Mearsheimer.

00:55:05.000 That is mere excuse-making.

00:55:07.000 Russia under Vladimir Putin is an ambitious regime that sees itself as a civilizational power with a messianic mission cleverly planned and steadfastly pursued.

00:55:15.000 In this battle, once again, Dugan counts.

00:55:17.000 He said this in 97. On the help of the very isolationists, he said that Russia should foster, in that book, Foundations of Geopolitics. 0.54

00:55:25.000 Among the people that he name-checks in his new book are Tucker Carlson and J.D. Vance, his ideological allies.

00:55:30.000 And Tucker is Dugan's ally here.

00:55:32.000 I mean, there's just no question about this.

00:55:34.000 Tucker literally had on Dugan last year on his show and praised him and then refused to ask him a single question about Russia or Russian ambitions because that might burst the viewers bubble.

00:55:44.000 So I.

00:55:46.000 So I've asked you no questions about Russia or Russian politics, and I'm not going to, because I think it's so interesting to see your perspective on countries that you don't live in, because, you know, we do gain insight, I think, from the view of outsiders.

00:56:02.000 So what does all this mean for the current Ukraine negotiations?

00:56:04.000 Well, it means that America cannot trust Russian promises, especially absent security guarantees.

00:56:10.000 Security guarantees are a must.

00:56:12.000 Acknowledgement of territorial gain by the Ukrainians does literally nothing to guarantee the safety of the rest of Ukraine.

00:56:18.000 The best that can be hoped for in this deal is an armistice that hardens into a permanent cold peace.

00:56:23.000 And that requires a different strategy than yelling at Vladimir Zelensky or Vladimir Putin.

00:56:28.000 It is not a strategy of carrots to Vladimir Putin.

00:56:31.000 Carrots are not going to satisfy his appetite.

00:56:34.000 It's a strategy of carrots combined with intransigence, total intransigence, a Cold War strategy.

00:56:41.000 America stood down the Russians for half a century at far greater expenditure and cost than what we've spent in Ukraine. 0.90

00:56:46.000 That doesn't mean the United States should shoulder the main burden of what's happening.

00:56:50.000 Europe should, obviously.

00:56:52.000 And it certainly doesn't mean U.S. boots on the ground.

00:56:54.000 That's unnecessary, and the Ukrainians aren't asking for it. 0.99

00:56:56.000 But in an era of rising power in China, rising aggressiveness in Russia, Rising nuclearization in Iran.

00:57:02.000 America cannot afford a weak approach that withdraws from the world, decouples from allies, shrugs its shoulders as the world is carved up by our geopolitical opposition.

00:57:10.000 A multipolar world sounds nice and happy and less burdensome in theory.

00:57:14.000 In practice, it looks like impoverishment, interminable war, because a multipolar world is a world constantly at war and endless opportunity for America's enemies.

00:57:23.000 Alexander Dugan knows that and Vladimir Putin knows that and we ought to understand that as well.

00:57:29.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment.

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00:58:33.000 Okay, meanwhile, speaking of multipolarity, you see the trouble with multipolarity in exactly what China is doing in its own trade war on the United States.

00:58:41.000 So recognize that in the trade war declared by President Trump on China, China has in turn declared its own trade war on the United States.

00:58:49.000 President Trump is trying to find an off-ramp here.

00:58:51.000 The Chinese are not. 1.00

00:58:52.000 The Chinese see this as an opportunity to draw closer to all of the countries.

00:58:56.000 That were alienated by President Trump's original Liberation Day announcement that slammed the rest of the world with tariffs.

00:59:00.000 And China is flexing its muscles with regard to all of its allies like Russia and Iran.

00:59:06.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, in the weeks since the U.S. president first slapped sky-high tariffs on China, Beijing has responded with defiance.

00:59:13.000 A spokeswoman for China's foreign ministry posted on X footage from 1953 of Mao Zedong promising to fight to the end against U.S.-led forces in the Korean War.

00:59:21.000 We are Chinese, she wrote.

00:59:22.000 We won't back down.

00:59:24.000 The Mao Post and other messages from Beijing highlight what China sees as one of its core advantages against the United States. 0.75

00:59:29.000 While Trump and his Republican backers are vulnerable to the whims of American voters, the party Mao built is deeply entrenched, having maintained power for more than seven decades despite war, famine, political upheaval, and financial crises.

00:59:41.000 Xi continues to strengthen his grip on his country.

00:59:45.000 He continues to make overtures to third parties.

00:59:49.000 The White House still has not said what actually it's looking for in an off-ramp.

00:59:55.000 And Xi himself is in no rush to solve this crisis because he believes it's a political crisis for President Trump.

01:00:02.000 In fact, according to the Wall Street Journal Today, President Trump's apparent softening on tariffs against China in recent days has buoyed markets, but for Chinese leaders, it only strengthens their resolve that Trump will eventually cave if they simply wait him out.

01:00:14.000 A Chinese foreign ministry dismissed any suggestion the two sides are even negotiating as fake news.

01:00:19.000 So Trump is saying we're having great talks, it's all going well, and China's like, no, we're not.

01:00:23.000 We're not talking at all.

01:00:24.000 Now, question.

01:00:24.000 Why would China do that?

01:00:25.000 If China wants the off-ramp, why aren't they looking for it?

01:00:28.000 The answer is because they believe that Trump is going to cave on this because it was poorly thought out in the first place.

01:00:34.000 It was the Leroy Jenkins of trade policy, just charging into a room without any actual plan.

01:00:40.000 Foreign ministry spokesperson, Guao Jicon, said Thursday, quote, this tariff war was launched by the United States.

01:00:45.000 The Chinese side's position has always been clear and consistent.

01:00:47.000 Quote, if we fight, we'll fight to the end.

01:00:49.000 If we talk, the door is wide open.

01:00:50.000 Any dialogue or negotiation must be based on equality, respect, and mutual benefit.

01:00:55.000 A spokesman for the Commerce Ministry of China demanded that Trump should completely eliminate tariffs against China if he's serious about resolving trade disputes through dialogue.

01:01:05.000 So China is in no rush here.

01:01:07.000 And why would they be?

01:01:08.000 Why would they be?

01:01:10.000 Right now, they feel like they have all the leverage.

01:01:13.000 Meanwhile, by the way, they've put significant curbs on the export of rare earth minerals, which we need for our own national defense.

01:01:20.000 And this is why I say that if you're going to launch a trade war against China, you actually have to do all of the groundwork, the preconditional groundwork first.

01:01:27.000 According to the Washington Post, senior administration officials are scrambling to stem economic damage from China's restrictions on rare earth exports, as President Trump's trade war risks cutting key industries and defense contractors off from supplies of metals crucial to production, according to three people familiar with internal deliberations.

01:01:43.000 While companies search for alternative suppliers and urge the White House to cut a deal, the Trump administration is finding no easy solutions.

01:01:51.000 Instead, again, they continue to push forward the Chinese export curbs on materials that we need.

01:01:58.000 So when we talk about China being able to really constrict supply of rare earth minerals, I went to our friends and sponsors of Perplexity and I asked, what percentage of rare earth minerals used in military production in the United States come from China?

01:02:11.000 And the answer is, a lot.

01:02:13.000 According to Perplexity, the United States military is heavily dependent on rare earth elements that are either mined or processed in China.

01:02:19.000 Between 2020 and 2023, the U.S. relied on China for approximately 70% of its imports of all rare earth compounds and metals, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

01:02:29.000 China controls about 70% of global rare earth extraction and 85-90% of rare earth processing capacity.

01:02:36.000 Even the rare earths that are mined outside of China are often sent there for processing before they are used in U.S. manufacturing and military applications.

01:02:44.000 Apparently, 78% of all U.S. military weapons systems rely on materials sourced from or processed in China.

01:02:50.000 And that includes antimony, gallium, germanium, tungsten, tellurium.

01:02:54.000 All of those are essential for advanced defense technologies.

01:02:56.000 So this is why you really have to set up alternative chains of supply for these materials before you launch a giant trade war with China.

01:03:03.000 China knows that, which is why they are now attempting to basically batter President Trump by doing nothing.

01:03:08.000 Our geopolitical enemies are on the march.

01:03:11.000 They are.

01:03:11.000 And President Trump is right to try to contain China.

01:03:12.000 But that means an actual, well-thought-out strategy cannot be impulsive.

01:03:16.000 It cannot be wild.

01:03:17.000 It has to be perfectly planned and perfectly executed.

01:03:22.000 Because, by the way, even if we boxed in China economically, even if all the tariff regime worked, we would still face down the prospect of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

01:03:29.000 A Chinese invasion of Taiwan would be full-scale disastrous for the world economy and for the United States military. 0.97

01:03:34.000 because the sophisticated semiconductors that we use in our military equipment come from Taiwan.

01:03:39.000 China doesn't have to capture that and then use it for its own purposes.

01:03:42.000 They just have to destroy it.

01:03:44.000 If China were to destroy TSMC in Taiwan, China has ramped up its material capacity to manufacture secondary order microchips, like not quite as good as the top level, but kind of close to as good.

01:03:57.000 They're outproducing us in that way.

01:04:00.000 And so if they feel boxed in, they just go for it.

01:04:03.000 Again, it's a dangerous world and a dangerous world requires strong and

01:04:08.000 American leadership.

01:04:11.000 By the way, this also holds true in Iran.

01:04:14.000 Steve Witkoff continues to claim that progress is being made in a deal with Iran.

01:04:20.000 What that looks like, nobody really knows at this point.

01:04:23.000 Again, Witkoff has demonstrated, to my mind, pretty much zero actual negotiation chops.

01:04:27.000 It seems like he goes over to Qatar and then repeats their talking points, and then he goes over to Russia and seems to repeat Vladimir Putin's talking points after, quote-unquote, developing a friendship with him.

01:04:34.000 I just don't know what Steve Witkoff does for a living.

01:04:36.000 Honest to God.

01:04:37.000 We need better envoys.

01:04:39.000 Well, President Trump set a two-month deadline for negotiations with Iran, and he has threatened the possibility of a strike on the Iranian nuclear facilities.

01:04:49.000 However, Whitcoff continues to say that maybe an interim deal is possible.

01:04:53.000 The Iranians said that they wanted an interim deal, and Whitcoff said, we're not going to do that.

01:04:57.000 But then he also said he doesn't want to discuss an interim deal right now.

01:05:01.000 He said, quote, this is according to Axios, if both parties think significantly more time is needed as the 60-day deadline approaches, They can revisit the idea of an interim deal.

01:05:09.000 What kind of negotiation is that?

01:05:10.000 We're not going to take your interim deal, but don't worry.

01:05:12.000 We might do it later.

01:05:14.000 What the hell?

01:05:15.000 A senior U.S. official said that Whitcoff and Arahi, who is the envoy for Iran, made very good progress during talks in Rome.

01:05:26.000 Oman's foreign ministry said in a statement, after the talks, the parties agreed to enter into the next phase of the negotiations.

01:05:31.000 According to the Omani statement, Iran and the United States agreed to work, quote, on a fair, enduring, and binding deal.

01:05:35.000 Which will ensure Iran is completely free of nuclear weapons and sanctions and maintaining its ability to develop peaceful nuclear energy.

01:05:41.000 Okay, well, if that's the deal, forget it, man.

01:05:42.000 Because the idea that Iran is developing peaceful nuclear energy, Iran is one of the most oil-rich nations, literally on the planet.

01:05:50.000 For what purpose would Iran need a nuclear facility other than to develop a nuclear weapon?

01:05:55.000 Notice the language there that's being put forth by Oman.

01:05:59.000 It would ensure Iran is free of nuclear weapons, but they'd have nuclear facilities. 0.93

01:06:03.000 Okay, well, that's what we call the Obama deal.

01:06:05.000 That's the JCPOA.

01:06:06.000 A deal that Donald Trump, back during his first term, called literally the worst deal ever signed.

01:06:12.000 How about we don't do that?

01:06:14.000 Now, a piece of news that is sort of interesting is that the State Department has announced that policy planning chief, Michael Anton, is going to lead the U.S. team when it comes to uranium enrichment.

01:06:23.000 And Anton is an expert.

01:06:25.000 He does know a lot about nuclear materials and fissile development and all the rest of it.

01:06:33.000 Interim deal with Iran is going to take place, or a deal with Iran that relieves sanctions.

01:06:37.000 I mean, again, the signal achievement of the Trump administration, aside from the Abraham Accords, was maximum pressure on Iran during his first term, abandoning that, abandoning that in favor of allowing Iran a quote-unquote civilian nuclear program, which seems to be the tack that the administration is now taking.

01:06:54.000 Iran is lying about that, and everybody knows Iran is lying about all that, and if you relieve the sanctions, all that money goes immediately to fostering the very terror network. 0.91

01:07:01.000 That we are currently fighting the United States in Yemen with the Houthis, for example, like directly.

01:07:07.000 President Trump yesterday was asked about this.

01:07:09.000 He said, don't worry, we're going to make a very, very good deal.

01:07:11.000 I think we're doing very well on an agreement with Iran.

01:07:15.000 But that one, we're doing a lot of things, I will say.

01:07:18.000 But that one is well in its way.

01:07:22.000 We could have a very, very good decision and a lot of lives will be saved.

01:07:27.000 Well, how about this?

01:07:28.000 How about we wait to see the content of the deal and we will see then if it's a very good deal or if it is not a very good deal at all.

01:07:34.000 I have a feeling that any deal that is cut with Iran is likely to be a not particularly good deal.

01:07:41.000 Okay, let's jump into some culture because this has been very serious and it is indeed a Friday.

01:07:46.000 So a lot to talk about in the cultural sphere.

01:07:49.000 And here I have to thank producer Jess, who is, this is her last.

01:07:56.000 Week helping me with the culture segment.

01:07:58.000 She's moving on to greener pastures, doing more culture for other people. 1.00

01:08:02.000 Don't worry.

01:08:03.000 We'll still do culture segments.

01:08:04.000 But Jess has been invaluable here.

01:08:06.000 So a shout out to Jess here.

01:08:08.000 She keeps an eye on this stuff because I'll be honest with you.

01:08:10.000 Like the chances that I'm going to follow Jojo Siwa's transformation from lesbian to queer is the chances were zero.

01:08:19.000 But now I know about it.

01:08:20.000 And so you know about it too.

01:08:22.000 Apparently.

01:08:23.000 JoJo Siwa has now revealed that she no longer identifies as a lesbian at all.

01:08:27.000 She is now queer. 1.00

01:08:29.000 She says that she feels most similar to non-binary people.

01:08:32.000 She isn't ready to label herself beyond queer. 0.64

01:08:35.000 Oh, these terms mean nothing.

01:08:37.000 Honest to God.

01:08:38.000 She's just making up things now.

01:08:40.000 Here we go.

01:08:41.000 I don't know how this is going to come out.

01:08:43.000 But we've already been...

01:08:44.000 But it's made me feel so queer.

01:08:47.000 And I've always been afraid of feeling queer.

01:08:50.000 Don't! 0.57

01:08:50.000 This is you! 0.57

01:08:51.000 Like, I've always said, like, lesbian, right?

01:08:54.000 But I feel, like, so queer.

01:08:56.000 You know what I mean?

01:08:56.000 I'm queer!

01:08:57.000 But that's, like, I've never kind of...

01:09:00.000 We're not living in a world that's designed for us, Jojo.

01:09:03.000 I'm switching letters!

01:09:04.000 You're a queer bit. 1.00

01:09:05.000 What the hell?

01:09:06.000 I'm going to the Q!

01:09:07.000 You are a Q, honey!

01:09:08.000 That's what I love about sexuality!

01:09:10.000 And you know what British people love more than anything?

01:09:12.000 It's the Q!

01:09:13.000 The Q, baby!

01:09:15.000 What the living...

01:09:16.000 What in the...

01:09:17.000 What?

01:09:19.000 Okay, can I just say that the West is a deeply unserious place now?

01:09:23.000 Like, deeply, deeply unserious.

01:09:24.000 There are actual real things happening in the West, and we're worrying about whether Jojo Siwa identifies as a lesbian, i.e.

01:09:30.000 a woman who wants to have sexual relations with other women, or a queer, i.e. 0.95

01:09:34.000 a woman who wants to have sexual relations with other women and maybe others. 1.00

01:09:37.000 Like, whoop-de-frickin-do.

01:09:40.000 She added that non-binary people are the people she feels most like, which, how can she feel like that? 0.88

01:09:46.000 Does she feel like a chicken today or a penguin?

01:09:49.000 Like what?

01:09:50.000 Here we go.

01:09:51.000 I've met a lot of females. 1.00

01:09:52.000 Love them.

01:09:53.000 Don't feel like I'm them.

01:09:54.000 Met a lot of males.

01:09:55.000 Love them.

01:09:56.000 Definitely not them.

01:09:57.000 Met a lot of people in my life that are non-binary.

01:09:59.000 And these beautiful non-binary people are who I feel the most like.

01:10:03.000 And it's...

01:10:04.000 I don't know.

01:10:05.000 It's not something that I want to say about myself yet.

01:10:08.000 But it's something that is confusing.

01:10:12.000 Oh, wow.

01:10:13.000 She's like a butterfly emerging from the chrysalis.

01:10:15.000 And she's also, you know, wasn't she like a Nickelodeon star?

01:10:19.000 It is amazing how many of these child stars end up absolutely screwed up at every possible level.

01:10:23.000 Meanwhile, Pedro Pascal, who is the star of The Mandalorians, who is not booted for making Holocaust comparisons, because the way that it works is that if you're Gina Carano and you say people should treat each other more nicely because otherwise terrible things happen with a picture of, you know, people chasing Jews during the Holocaust, you get fired from Disney.

01:10:40.000 But if you're Pedro Pascal and you compare the plight of illegal immigrants held in detention facilities to concentration camps, That's totally fine. 1.00

01:10:46.000 Well, now he's out there promoting transgender rights.

01:10:52.000 He wore a shirt called Protect the Dolls at the UK premiere of Marvel's Thunderbolts.

01:10:58.000 Apparently, dolls is an affectionate term within the LGBTQ plus minus divided by sign community, referring to transgender women.

01:11:05.000 He wore the shirt shortly after the UK Supreme Court said, oh yeah, by the way, men are not women and women are not men.

01:11:11.000 He also then attacked J.K. Rowling.

01:11:14.000 Which is always the mark of a complete dolt on this particular issue.

01:11:19.000 He has a brother who came out as a sister in February 2021.

01:11:24.000 And so that is one of the things that presumably is driving Pedro Pascal.

01:11:27.000 He's also the star of The Last of Us, which is about gay zombies or something. 0.98

01:11:32.000 I tried to watch the first season of The Last of Us, and I have to say that it was well-made and also just randomly the gayest series in human history. 1.00

01:11:43.000 Like, there are, in the original video game, lesbians and gay people and trans people and all the rest of it.

01:11:51.000 But in the series, there's literally an episode that's just a cutaway to a gay romance for an hour with no zombies.

01:11:58.000 Yeah, man.

01:12:00.000 Alrighty, folks.

01:12:01.000 Coming up, we'll get to the Democratic Party.

01:12:03.000 As much trouble as the Trump administration has created for itself with the trade war, the Democrats are even in more trouble.

01:12:10.000 We're going to get into their presidential candidate list.

01:12:12.000 Because there's only one soaring above all the others.

01:12:14.000 But remember, in order to watch, you have to be a member.

01:12:16.000 If you're not a member, become a member.

01:12:17.000 Use code Shapiro at checkout for two months free on all annual plans.

The Ben Shapiro Show - April 25, 2025

The Exclusive Zelensky Interview Part II…Plus China vs. Trump!

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