The Ben Shapiro Show - The Great Raid | The Ben Shapiro Show Ep. 514

00:00:00.000 The FBI raids the offices of President Trump's lawyer, Trump considers war in Syria, and the left rushes to Teddy Kennedy's defense.

00:00:06.000 It's a busy news day.

00:00:07.000 This is The Ben Shapiro Show.

00:00:13.000 So many things to get to.

00:00:15.000 Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of news.

00:00:17.000 And we'll have full analysis of all of it.

00:00:19.000 I will give you the full legal breakdown and everything going on with President Trump's personal lawyer, whose offices, hotel, home, were all raided by the FBI last night.

00:00:26.000 What that means.

00:00:27.000 Is it a witch hunt, as President Trump says?

00:00:29.000 We'll get to all of those things first.

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00:00:50.000 I think so.

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00:02:12.000 President Trump's lawyer is now being investigated.

00:02:15.000 This is the latest news.

00:02:18.000 President Trump's lawyer is, of course, Michael Cohen.

00:02:19.000 You will remember Michael Cohen from such stellar TV performances as What Polls and also Confused Look on TV.

00:02:26.000 Michael Cohen is not the world's best lawyer.

00:02:28.000 President Trump's been using him for a long time.

00:02:30.000 When we say that he's Trump's personal lawyer, what that really means is that he has been involved for a long time in being

00:02:36.000 Sort of Trump's bagman, to a certain extent.

00:02:39.000 He's his fixer.

00:02:40.000 He's a self-described fixer.

00:02:41.000 In fact, Michael Cohen has compared himself to Trump's Tom Hagen.

00:02:45.000 Tom Hagen, of course, being the character from the Godfather movies, who is the personal lawyer for the Corleone family.

00:02:52.000 Now, one of the problems here is that Michael Cohen is not supremely competent.

00:02:56.000 And the other problem is that Michael Cohen has been cleaning up Trump's messes for so long that he may have gotten a little bit casual about it.

00:03:00.000 So here is the story.

00:03:02.000 The FBI apparently raided Michael Cohen's office yesterday, and the raid included documents that were that were regarding Cohen's self-stated $130,000 payment to Trump one night stand Stormy Daniels.

00:03:14.000 So now we have a scandal, a real scandal brewing.

00:03:16.000 Over Stormy Daniels. 1.00

00:03:17.000 So what exactly happened here?

00:03:18.000 Well, back in 2006, as you'll recall, President Trump allegedly shtooped Stormy Daniels.

00:03:23.000 That is probable.

00:03:25.000 I cannot imagine that that is not true.

00:03:27.000 It is really unlikely that Trump did not shtoop Stormy Daniels, given all the surrounding available evidence and Trump's record with women and all the rest of it.

00:03:34.000 OK, fine.

00:03:35.000 So that's who Trump is.

00:03:37.000 If people had known about that, nobody would have cared because Trump has shtooped everything from here to Miami.

00:03:41.000 I mean, that is really not a giant shock in any significant way.

00:03:46.000 But, for some odd reason, about 10 days before the election, it looked like Stormy Daniels was going to talk to the press, and Trump's team, or at least Michael Cohen, was afraid that Trump would somehow be implicated and people would not like Trump if they found out that Trump was having an affair, which, by the way, is an insane thought.

00:04:02.000 No one was going to shift their vote based on Trump having an affair with a porn star 10 years prior.

00:04:07.000 Everyone had assumed, I think, that Trump had been doing that sort of thing all the time.

00:04:10.000 Anyway, Cohen signed a $130,000 check to Stormy Daniels to shut her up, and they signed a settlement agreement.

00:04:16.000 And the settlement agreement was run through an LLC, and that settlement agreement used a bunch of pseudonyms.

00:04:21.000 So there's a pseudonym for Stormy Daniels, there's a pseudonym for President Trump, and this document was signed.

00:04:28.000 Stormy Daniels, of course, is now complaining, and she's saying that the document wasn't actually formalized, and that it's not actually binding, but in any case,

00:04:35.000 Michael Cohn is fighting that in court and suggesting that it is binding and that Stormy Daniels is supposed to shut up about all the details of her affair with Trump or he will sue her.

00:04:42.000 In any case, what exactly went wrong here?

00:04:44.000 Well, according to the Washington Post, Cohn is under federal investigation for possible bank fraud, wire fraud, and campaign finance violations, according to three people with knowledge of the case.

00:04:54.000 So the story here is that that $130,000 that Cohn paid to Stormy Daniels, he has claimed that Trump had no knowledge of it.

00:05:01.000 Which means that this could be a campaign finance problem.

00:05:05.000 It could be an in-kind contribution.

00:05:07.000 The sort of precedent for this being an in-kind contribution would be the John Edwards case.

00:05:12.000 You remember John Edwards.

00:05:12.000 John Edwards was the vice presidential candidate with John Kerry, and then he was a frontrunner for a short period of time in the 2008 presidential election.

00:05:19.000 Well, in the middle of that presidential election, it was about to come out that John Edwards had had an affair while he was married to his cancer-ridden wife, and he was having this affair with a woman named Rielle Hunter, and he impregnated her with a baby.

00:05:32.000 And he had all of his donors get together and give Real Hunter about a million dollars to shut up for the duration of the election cycle.

00:05:40.000 This constituted campaign finance violation and in-kind contribution by his people.

00:05:45.000 And John Edwards actually went to trial.

00:05:46.000 He was tried on six counts, including conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws.

00:05:50.000 He was acquitted on one of those counts.

00:05:52.000 The jury hung on the other five counts.

00:05:55.000 And in the end, the DOJ dropped the case.

00:05:57.000 This case is very, very similar.

00:05:59.000 This looks like what the DOJ is after here and what the lawyers are after, what the prosecutors are after, is the possibility that Michael Cohen was instructed by President Trump to pay Stormy Daniels and that this

00:06:09.000 That's the entire crux of the matter here.

00:06:25.000 This comes out late yesterday that Trump's attorney, his offices have now been raided by the FBI.

00:06:30.000 And President Trump responds with the kind of language that we've become accustomed to hearing from President Trump.

00:06:34.000 He's very passionate about this.

00:06:35.000 He's very upset about this.

00:06:37.000 And he says some things that I think are true and some things that I think are exaggerated.

00:06:40.000 Here was President Trump's response.

00:06:41.000 And it's a disgrace.

00:06:42.000 It's frankly a real disgrace.

00:06:44.000 It's an attack on our country in a true sense.

00:06:48.000 Okay, so he says it's an attack on our country.

00:06:50.000 That sort of language I don't appreciate from the president given the fact that there are actually attacks on our country that take place on a pretty regular basis.

00:06:56.000 It is not in fact an attack on the United States if the president of the United States does something wrong and then is then investigated for it.

00:07:02.000 It is an attack, perhaps, on the presidency.

00:07:06.000 Or an attack on Trump himself.

00:07:08.000 And this is where we get into some really dicey territory.

00:07:10.000 Because the real question here is what basis did the FBI really have to go after Trump's personal attorney?

00:07:16.000 It is unprecedented.

00:07:18.000 It is unprecedented.

00:07:18.000 There is such a thing as attorney-client privilege.

00:07:20.000 If I'm somebody's attorney, I'm a lawyer, if I'm somebody's lawyer, and we are corresponding about a particular issue that does not involve me as a lawyer helping the client break the law, then all of that is privileged material.

00:07:32.000 And it's very difficult to overcome that presumption of privilege for law enforcement.

00:07:36.000 Law enforcement actually has to jump through a bunch of hoops in order to seize documents from a lawyer's office.

00:07:41.000 They have to jump through a lot of hoops because we don't actually want the government jumping in and looking at everything a lawyer says to their client.

00:07:47.000 That'd be insane.

00:07:48.000 If the government could do that, then they could presumably win every case, they could disbar lawyers on a regular basis, they could go after clients for saying things that aren't even legally challengeable in a certain sense because they're just running through case theory, for example.

00:08:02.000 The reason attorney-client privilege exists is because there has to be a level of confidentiality between a lawyer and a client, just like there's a level of confidentiality between doctors and patients.

00:08:12.000 So you have to overcome a serious presumption here.

00:08:15.000 So Trump is saying this is an attack on him.

00:08:16.000 It may very well be, but we're not going to know that until we find out what exactly the FBI was looking for.

00:08:21.000 At this point, we still don't know exactly what the FBI was looking for.

00:08:24.000 So when Trump says it's an attack on the country, I don't think Trump is the country, but it certainly is an attack on President Trump.

00:08:29.000 And it may well be an unfair attack on President Trump, as I'll discuss in just a moment.

00:08:33.000 Now, President Trump also is very angry at his attorney general, Jeff Sessions, because again,

00:08:38.000 The way this worked is apparently the Mueller investigation referred out the information that led to the warrant to the U.S.

00:08:45.000 District of Southern, the Southern District of New York.

00:08:48.000 So this, this investigation that ended with the raid on Michael Cohen's offices actually had very little to do in the end with the Mueller investigation.

00:08:55.000 It was tossed off.

00:08:56.000 to the U.S.

00:08:57.000 District Attorney in the Southern District of New York.

00:09:00.000 So this is a second investigation, right?

00:09:02.000 This is a second investigation that we are talking about right now.

00:09:05.000 And Trump is saying, well, if Jeff Sessions were really my wingman, he would have stopped all of this.

00:09:10.000 If Jeff Sessions really cared what happened to me, he never would have accused himself in the first place.

00:09:14.000 He would have done exactly what Eric Holder did, and he would have stopped any investigation into my administration.

00:09:19.000 And Trump isn't exactly wrong about this.

00:09:21.000 The fact is that Eric Holder did play that role for Barack Obama.

00:09:24.000 Now, should Jeff Sessions play that role?

00:09:25.000 Well, not in terms of being an honest attorney general.

00:09:28.000 Eric Holder was a corrupt attorney general.

00:09:30.000 I'm old enough to remember when we all said that.

00:09:32.000 But I guess the idea on the right is that we're supposed to imitate the left, because if we don't imitate the left, then we're going to fall prey to the predations of people like Robert Mueller.

00:09:40.000 I find this a problematic idea that because the left sins, we are therefore also allowed to sin or therefore our sins are good.

00:09:48.000 So here's Trump going after Jeff Sessions, suggesting Sessions shouldn't have recused himself.

00:09:52.000 Remember, Sessions recused himself in the Russia matter.

00:09:54.000 He did not actually recuse himself in the Michael Cohen matter.

00:09:56.000 So theoretically, he could reestablish his authority here and fire the U.S.

00:10:00.000 District Attorney in the Southern District of New York, for example, or order a stop to that investigation.

00:10:05.000 That's a possibility.

00:10:07.000 Sessions hasn't said anything so far, and Trump is mad that Sessions recused himself in the Russia investigation, which led to the appointment eventually of Robert Mueller, the special investigator, which led eventually to him referring out to the U.S.

00:10:19.000 SDNY, the Southern District of New York, this Cone Raid.

00:10:22.000 Here's Trump going after Jeff Sessions yesterday.

00:10:24.000 They find no collusion, and then they go from there and they say, well, let's keep going.

00:10:30.000 And they raid an office of a personal attorney early in the morning.

00:10:35.000 And I think it's a disgrace.

00:10:36.000 So we'll be talking about it more.

00:10:38.000 But this is the most conflicted group of people I've ever seen.

00:10:41.000 The Attorney General made a terrible mistake when he did this and when he recused himself, or he should have certainly let us know if he was going to recuse himself.

00:10:52.000 And we would have put a different Attorney General in. 0.97

00:10:56.000 So he made what I consider to be a very terrible mistake for the country.

00:11:00.000 So obviously Trump is very, very frustrated about all of this.

00:11:03.000 So let's go through some of the facts here and some of the legalities.

00:11:05.000 And then I want to get to what Trump is going to do next year because this could have some pretty significant ramifications in a couple of different ways.

00:11:11.000 So first of all, attorney-client privilege does not actually apply if you are violating law with your attorney.

00:11:16.000 As I say, attorney-client privilege is really, really strong.

00:11:19.000 But if I'm Mathis's lawyer and Mathis comes to me and he says, you know what, let's do a drug deal together.

00:11:23.000 Let's go out and buy some cocaine and then let's sell it on the street.

00:11:26.000 This is not covered by attorney-client privilege because now I am complicit in a crime.

00:11:29.000 This is what we call the crime-fraud exception to the attorney-client privilege.

00:11:33.000 If I were to claim that our communications were privileged for the purpose of covering up a crime, that does not hold.

00:11:38.000 That privilege simply does not hold.

00:11:41.000 Also, it is worth noting that the raid on Cohen's office was in fact cleared by a judge as well as the Department of Justice.

00:11:48.000 So, for all the talk, President Trump suggested attorney-client privilege is dead, and he suggested that this was a break-in.

00:11:54.000 He said the FBI broke into Cohen's office.

00:11:56.000 The evidence to support that is just not there, legally speaking.

00:11:59.000 There was a process that was undergone, even if President Trump doesn't like the results of that process.

00:12:05.000 And I'll get to all of that.

00:12:06.000 I'll explain why it is that the raid was legal in just a second, at least presumably legal in just a second.

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00:13:24.000 All right, so Trump suggests that the raid on Cohen's office by the FBI is in fact illegal.

00:13:30.000 He called it a break-in, but the evidence is not there for that yet.

00:13:33.000 So we'll find out what the basis was for the raid, but suffice it to say that the process for actually doing one of these raids on an attorney's office is pretty significant.

00:13:42.000 Ken White is a lawyer on Twitter.

00:13:44.000 He's a lawyer and he's also on Twitter.

00:13:45.000 And he points out that the law is actually pretty strict regarding seizing documents that could be covered by attorney-client privilege.

00:13:51.000 Prosecutors actually have to show that there is no alternative to such a document seizure.

00:13:56.000 White writes, quote, The U.S.

00:13:57.000 Attorney's Manual requires such a search warrant to be approved by the U.S.

00:14:00.000 Attorney, the head of the office, a presidential appointee, and requires consultation with the criminal division in the U.S.

00:14:05.000 Department of Justice.

00:14:06.000 This is not a couple of rogue assistant U.S.

00:14:08.000 attorneys sneaking in a warrant.

00:14:10.000 In this case, the U.S.

00:14:11.000 Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York, widely regarded within itself as being the most important and prestigious U.S.

00:14:16.000 Attorney's Office in the country, secured the search warrants for the FBI.

00:14:20.000 Assuming this report is correct, that means a very mainstream U.S.

00:14:23.000 Attorney's Office, not just Mueller, thought there was enough for a search warrant here.

00:14:26.000 And a Magistrate Judge also had to green light the warrant as well.

00:14:30.000 So Cohen's office is arguing that he's cooperating with the authorities.

00:14:33.000 One of the barriers to getting one of these warrants is that

00:14:36.000 You have to show that there's no other way of obtaining the documents.

00:14:39.000 Cohen is saying, I would have just handed you whatever documents you wanted.

00:14:41.000 I've been fully cooperative.

00:14:43.000 The FBI apparently went to the DOJ and they said they haven't been cooperative.

00:14:46.000 The DOJ agreed, the magistrate judge agreed, and they went forward with the warrant.

00:14:51.000 I will say this.

00:14:52.000 The chances that the warrant is really weak, like supremely weak, I think are pretty low.

00:14:56.000 The reason being, this is going to be the most scrutinized warrant in the history of American politics.

00:15:00.000 Maybe right here, while we are looking at a warrant to go after the President's personal lawyer and uncover all the documents between that lawyer and the President of the United States, the burden is going to be really high.

00:15:10.000 Unless the magistrate judge is a complete political hack, and my understanding is,

00:15:14.000 The magistrate judge in this particular case might have been a Trump appointee.

00:15:18.000 Certainly, the U.S.

00:15:19.000 District Attorney's Office in Southern District of New York, the person who runs that office is a Trump appointee.

00:15:23.000 We're finding out this morning that the U.S.

00:15:27.000 Attorney's Office there is run by a guy who was actually a Trump donor, but he apparently recused himself from the case because he said that he was biased in the case because he was a Trump supporter.

00:15:37.000 So Trump can't be happy with that recusal either.

00:15:40.000 But in the end, all the information is going to come out.

00:15:42.000 Neither this is going to look like, as President Trump says, another witch hunt.

00:15:45.000 In which case, he'll be absolutely right to be angry.

00:15:47.000 He will be absolutely justified in firing Sessions, in firing the U.S.

00:15:50.000 District Attorney for the Southern District of New York.

00:15:53.000 If this really is a weak warrant, and this is the FBI just fishing around for information on President Trump, there's going to be hell to pay.

00:16:00.000 I mean, things will get really, really nasty, really, really quickly.

00:16:04.000 So in just a second, I'm going to give you a little bit more information on what exactly is going on in this raid, what the FBI may be hoping to uncover, and how exactly the documents are going to be handled.

00:16:14.000 Let's start with how the documents are going to be handled.

00:16:16.000 So, here again is Ken White, who's a lawyer, and he does this sort of litigation on a routine basis.

00:16:22.000 He says, quote, In other words, if you're running the investigation, you don't get to see the documents until lawyers have already reviewed it to ensure that attorney-client privilege is not violated.

00:16:40.000 Another option is a special master, which is the name for a person who is appointed simply to distinguish documents you're allowed to use from documents you're not allowed to use.

00:16:48.000 That'd be an experienced and qualified third party attorney to do the review.

00:16:52.000 But if the FBI has all of the communications between Michael Cohen and Trump on hand, then there's probably gonna be a lot of interesting stuff there.

00:16:59.000 Because if it turns out that Michael Cohen pays off Trump's paramours, which he obviously did with Stormy Daniels, he admits to that, then what else did Michael Cohen do for President Trump?

00:17:09.000 Eric Erickson, who is a critic of President Trump's, but I would say mainstream Republican, Eric Erickson said that he pointed out there were a lot of rumors during the campaign that Trump had actually paid off women who had had abortions, for example.

00:17:22.000 Would that come up in Michael Cohen's documents?

00:17:25.000 And if so, would that actually be privileged or would not be privileged?

00:17:28.000 Presumably, even if it came up, it would still be privileged, considering the fact that

00:17:33.000 When considering the fact that nothing necessarily illegal went on.

00:17:36.000 You're allowed to sign a settlement contract with a woman who had an abortion to keep her quiet. 0.57

00:17:40.000 But if that were to break in the public sphere, then that obviously would undercut a lot of Trump's support base.

00:17:44.000 Again, all of that is speculation, but suffice it to say that when you are

00:17:48.000 Putting your dirty fingers into the offices of the personal fixer for the President of the United States, you may be able to find some stuff that is really, really gross.

00:17:58.000 So all of this is really troubling. 0.92

00:18:00.000 Now, here's something worth pointing out.

00:18:02.000 A lot of people on the right are livid today because they say the FBI never treated Hillary Clinton this way.

00:18:07.000 This is 100% true.

00:18:09.000 It is 100% true.

00:18:11.000 There is no question that the treatment of Donald Trump here is absolutely disparate to the treatment of Hillary Clinton.

00:18:19.000 The treatment by the FBI of Donald Trump is they're going after everything.

00:18:21.000 They're searching for everything.

00:18:23.000 And even if you think this warrant is legit, which it may very well be, even if you think that a campaign finance law was broken here, which maybe it was,

00:18:31.000 Is there any question that the treatment of Hillary Clinton was wildly, wildly kind and the treatment of Donald Trump has been wildly unkind at best?

00:18:41.000 There's no question there's a wild disparity between Hillary Clinton's treatment and Donald Trump's treatment. 0.60

00:18:46.000 Remember all the way back to the time when the FBI was investigating Hillary Clinton's missing emails.

00:18:51.000 They were investigating her server because she had set up a private server in her house and she had classified emails flowing through that private server which exposed them to the possibility of foreign hack.

00:19:00.000 And the FBI treated Hillary Clinton with kid gloves. 0.98

00:19:02.000 They had basically cleared her by the time they interviewed her.

00:19:05.000 They added an element to the crime in order to exonerate her. 0.88

00:19:09.000 They said she had to have intent.

00:19:10.000 To pass off classified documents, it couldn't just be accidental, except the law doesn't require intent.

00:19:15.000 That's what James Comey, the former FBI director, he actually changed the law in order to help exonerate Hillary Clinton.

00:19:21.000 Loretta Lynch, of course, met with Hillary Clinton's husband on a plane on a tarmac in the middle of the investigation, and she still doesn't have any good answers about this.

00:19:29.000 So Loretta Lynch was interviewed by Lester Holt, and Holt asked her about her meeting on the tarmac with Bill Clinton, and you can hear she's still obfuscating the issue.

00:19:36.000 It was still 107 degrees outside, and I was told that he wanted to come on the plane and say hello.

00:19:41.000 Did a part of you go, oh, no, no, no, no, no, turn him around?

00:19:45.000 You know, at first my thought was, you know, I speak to people all the time, people in public life, people not in public life.

00:19:51.000 Right, but his wife was under investigation by the Justice Department.

00:19:54.000 Did you have any moment where you said, Mr. President, this is probably not appropriate or this is going to look bad?

00:20:02.000 Well, I will say that in the course of the conversation, we spoke and it seemed like we were going to say, hello, hi, how are you, and move on.

00:20:08.000 OK, so she obfuscates every question. 0.94

00:20:11.000 She says there is nothing wrong here, but then she doesn't explain what exactly happened on the plane.

00:20:15.000 All of this was deeply suspicious.

00:20:16.000 It was so suspicious that it is what led James Comey, he said in his own testimony, to basically take over the investigation from Loretta Lynch and then announce on his own what he thought the actual outcome of the investigation should be in order to shield Loretta Lynch from accusations of corruption.

00:20:30.000 So there's no question that Hillary Clinton was treated with absolute kid gloves.

00:20:33.000 And by the way, I have more evidence that she was treated with kid gloves, which I will present to you in just one second.

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00:21:59.000 That's BlueApron.com slash Shapiro.

00:22:02.000 Again, use that slash Shapiro.

00:22:03.000 Get $30 off and let them know that we sent you.

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00:22:06.000 Folks in the office are using it.

00:22:07.000 People all around the United States are using it in increasing numbers, and there's a reason for it.

00:22:11.000 Blue Apron is, indeed, a better way to cook. 1.00

00:22:13.000 Okay, so back to the differential treatment between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump by the FBI. 1.00

00:22:19.000 Hey, so Andrew McCarthy of National Review points this out.

00:22:22.000 In the middle of the investigation, Hillary Clinton was interviewed by the FBI. 1.00

00:22:26.000 And the Justice Department allowed Hillary Clinton to be accompanied at this interview by Cheryl Mills.

00:22:33.000 Cheryl Mills was Hillary Clinton's not only close friend, but personal fixer. 1.00

00:22:38.000 Cheryl Mills basically was to Hillary Clinton what Michael Cohen was to Donald Trump. 0.98

00:22:43.000 And they allowed Cheryl Mills, who was a former employee at the State Department, to sit in with Hillary Clinton during her interviews, even though she was a subject of the investigation.

00:22:53.000 This is what Andrew McCarthy over at National Review wrote at the time.

00:23:12.000 Okay, so let me clarify that in case you missed it.

00:23:15.000 Not only did they allow Cheryl Mills to sit in on an interview with Hillary Clinton, they allowed Cheryl Mills to claim attorney-client privilege in her communications with Hillary Clinton about the emails themselves, even though she was possibly complicit in the hiding of those emails and the setting up of the private server.

00:23:29.000 So it's like, so here, they're saying no attorney-client privilege attaches to Michael Cohen, because the crime-fraud exception, but Cheryl Mills, who's literally under investigation at the same time, in the same way as Michael Cohen, or at least in a similar way, she was allowed to sit in on meetings with Hillary Clinton, and they were allowed to use, and they were allowed to claim attorney-client privilege.

00:23:49.000 McCarthy writes, Mills was a participant in that procedure and it is the procedure in which we now know well over 30,000 emails were attempted to be destroyed, including several thousand that contained government related business.

00:24:01.000 There is no way Mills should have been permitted to participate as a lawyer in the process of producing Clinton's emails to the State Department nearly two years after they both left.

00:24:09.000 I thought it was astonishing that the Justice Department indulged her attorney-client privilege claim, which frustrated the FBI's ability to question her on a key aspect of the investigation, but it is simply unbelievable to find her turning up at Mrs. Clinton's interview, participating in the capacity of a lawyer under circumstances where Clinton was being investigated over matters in which Mills participated as a non-lawyer government official.

00:24:29.000 So again, Trump is absolutely right to be angry at the fact that the FBI treated Hillary Clinton with kid gloves, that the DOJ treated Hillary Clinton with kid gloves.

00:24:39.000 He's absolutely right about that.

00:24:40.000 Now, the question is, should his own DOJ and FBI treat Donald Trump with kid gloves?

00:24:43.000 Now, this is a serious question philosophically on the right.

00:24:47.000 It really is.

00:24:48.000 And I'm not making light of it in any way.

00:24:50.000 On the one side, you have people who are saying, listen,

00:24:51.000 The left cheats.

00:24:52.000 They do.

00:24:53.000 The left used the DOJ as a personal shield for Barack Obama.

00:24:56.000 Eric Holder, when he was brought up on contempt charges, Barack Obama stepped in and declared executive privilege to prevent Holder from having to hand over documents.

00:25:03.000 Eric Holder described himself as Barack Obama's wingman.

00:25:06.000 Loretta Lynch played exactly the same role for Barack Obama and also for Hillary Clinton. 0.99

00:25:11.000 James Comey obviously was biased in favor of Hillary Clinton in a wide variety of ways, although he ended up, close to the election, revealing something in order to proclaim his own honesty in front of Congress.

00:25:23.000 He revealed that Hillary might still be under investigation, or at least her emails had come up on Anthony Weiner's computer.

00:25:28.000 Despite all of that, his original attempt to exonerate Hillary Clinton was highly biased in the extreme, and he never should have done it.

00:25:35.000 And so a lot of people who are on the right are saying, well, listen, why should Trump be pure as the driven snow when it comes to his law enforcement agencies?

00:25:42.000 Why can't we just have Jeff Sessions step in and defend him?

00:25:45.000 Why doesn't he fire Rod Rosenstein?

00:25:47.000 In fact, why doesn't he fire Robert Mueller?

00:25:48.000 You know, if the situation is that the DOJ is supposed to protect the president, as the left claims about Obama, then why shouldn't Trump do the same thing?

00:25:55.000 And Trump himself seems to be thinking a little bit along these lines.

00:25:58.000 So Trump suggested that he may fire Mueller.

00:26:00.000 He was asked about this and he says, well, we'll have to see what happens with regard to Robert Mueller.

00:26:04.000 Why don't I just fire Mueller?

00:26:06.000 Well, I think it's a disgrace what's going on.

00:26:08.000 We'll see what happens.

00:26:09.000 But I think it's really a sad situation when you look at what happened.

00:26:14.000 And many people have said you should fire him.

00:26:17.000 Again, they found nothing.

00:26:20.000 So we'll see what happens.

00:26:21.000 I think it's disgraceful and so does a lot of other people.

00:26:25.000 This is a pure and simple witch hunt.

00:26:28.000 Thank you very much.

00:26:37.000 Well, I was giddy over this.

00:26:38.000 So CNN was doing two things that were pretty amazing to watch.

00:26:41.000 First, they were suggesting that this obviously means Trump is going to fire Mueller.

00:26:45.000 Like, oh, listen to the language he's now using with Mueller.

00:26:47.000 He's been using that language about Mueller for literally months at this point.

00:26:50.000 It's the sort of language that President Trump uses on a fairly routine basis.

00:26:53.000 So that's not a shock.

00:26:55.000 Second, they kept saying, look how mad Trump is. 0.84

00:26:57.000 He's so mad.

00:26:58.000 He can't fire Mueller, but he's so mad.

00:27:00.000 You could see how they were reveling in the anger.

00:27:03.000 They're very excited about how angry President Trump was because they're hoping that Trump fires Mueller and this precipitates an impeachment.

00:27:10.000 But should Trump fire Mueller?

00:27:12.000 There are people who are encouraging him to do so.

00:27:13.000 Lou Dobbs said last night on Fox News that he would fire Mueller if he had the opportunity to do so.

00:27:19.000 I mean, immediately we recall the pre-dawn raid of Manafort's home, and even though he'd been cooperating with the special counsel.

00:27:30.000 This is now a man that has to be brought under control, it would seem to me.

00:27:36.000 Frankly, I can't imagine

00:27:38.000 I know you would.

00:27:55.000 Let the ball roll on on all of the impeachment that the Democrats want to do.

00:27:59.000 He's going to have to let this thing play out.

00:28:01.000 But now there is some serious danger and the danger is coming from a different direction than the Mueller investigation.

00:28:06.000 The danger is coming via the Stormy Daniels stuff.

00:28:09.000 So if you are a fan of President Trump's and you think that Trump needs to stay in office,

00:28:13.000 Under any imaginable circumstances.

00:28:15.000 And also if you think that all of this is indeed an extenuated witch hunt.

00:28:21.000 At this point we are far from Russian collusion.

00:28:22.000 Remember this whole thing started with accusations that Trump had colluded with Russia.

00:28:26.000 There's not a shred of evidence to suggest that there was active collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

00:28:30.000 There really is not much there at all.

00:28:32.000 I don't want to say shred of evidence.

00:28:34.000 There's not much there at all.

00:28:36.000 If you say, what does this have to do with collusion?

00:28:38.000 The answer is nothing.

00:28:39.000 If you say, what does this have to do with obstruction of justice?

00:28:41.000 The answer is nothing.

00:28:42.000 Now we're on a campaign finance reform scandal that is absolutely separate from the Mueller investigation entirely.

00:28:48.000 And so maybe you're saying, listen, Trump has to defend himself.

00:28:50.000 He should fire whomever he has to fire because Obama would obviously do the exact same thing the media would defend for him.

00:28:55.000 That's the argument on one part of the right.

00:28:56.000 The argument on the other part of the right is that just because Barack Obama did something bad doesn't mean that we also get to do something bad.

00:29:02.000 That just because Barack Obama turned the FBI and the DOJ into his personal playthings doesn't mean that Donald Trump should do the same.

00:29:08.000 And in fact, we should stand up against any president who wants to turn the DOJ and the FBI into their personal plaything.

00:29:14.000 I think conservatives are going to be forced to make a choice on which way this goes.

00:29:18.000 That choice doesn't have to be made yet.

00:29:20.000 And the reason the choice doesn't have to be made yet is because we don't know yet what the FBI is looking for.

00:29:24.000 We don't know yet what the FBI knows.

00:29:26.000 We don't know yet what the DOJ knows.

00:29:28.000 And as Jesse Isinger of ProPublica writes, a note of caution on the Michael Cohen news, the FBI screws up a lot.

00:29:33.000 It messed up a raid on Benjamin Way.

00:29:35.000 Case got thrown out.

00:29:36.000 FBI raided David Yannick's hedge fund, which I'm convinced was an abuse.

00:29:40.000 So before we jump to the conclusion that Trump is in serious, serious trouble, we're going to have to hear more about what happens next and what exactly they found.

00:29:48.000 But if the pedal hits the metal, there are going to be a lot of people on the conservative side of the aisle, and I think not entirely unjustifiably, who will say, listen, Trump should fire who he has to fire.

00:29:56.000 Obama certainly would.

00:29:57.000 He would get away with it.

00:29:58.000 And we can't play by Marcus of Queensbury rules.

00:30:00.000 And then I think there will be other people, and I probably count myself in this camp, who will say, listen,

00:30:05.000 You don't get to pervert the system of justice just because the left perverts the system of justice.

00:30:09.000 And by the way, it is not a great thing that the President of the United States, if this turns out to be the case, was having his lawyer pay $130,000 to a porn star to shut her up 10 days before the election and skirting campaign finance laws in order to do so.

00:30:22.000 Now, I will also say that there's going to be a strong part of me that suggests that 0.98

00:30:27.000 Campaign finance reform violations are stupid in and of themselves. 1.00

00:30:29.000 I think campaign finance reform laws are dumb. 0.99

00:30:31.000 If you think that the base is going to abandon Trump over this sort of thing, I think that's mistaken. 0.97

00:30:35.000 I don't think Trump's base is going anywhere on this.

00:30:37.000 I don't think that there are a lot of conservatives in the country who are going to say Trump definitely deserves to leave office over a campaign finance violation about him having an affair.

00:30:45.000 I just don't think you're gonna get a lot of play on the right for that, even if, legally speaking, maybe you should.

00:30:50.000 Okay, so, I do want to discuss the situation in Syria, because while we're all talking about Michael Cohen, war may be breaking out in Syria, we'll talk about that in just a second, but first, you're gonna have to subscribe.

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00:32:21.000 All righty, so, meanwhile, while all this is going on, war may be imminent in Syria.

00:32:24.000 Trump yesterday was, before he spoke about the Michael Cohen thing with the press, he was actually at a meeting with all of his military bigwigs, and he told the press, big decisions may be coming soon on Syria.

00:32:34.000 I'd like to begin by condemning the heinous attack on innocent Syrians with banned chemical weapons.

00:32:44.000 It was an atrocious attack.

00:32:47.000 It was horrible.

00:32:48.000 You don't see

00:32:50.000 Things like that, as bad as the news is around the world, you just don't see those images.

00:32:57.000 We are studying that situation extremely closely.

00:33:00.000 We are meeting with our military and everybody else.

00:33:04.000 And we'll be making some major decisions over the next 24 to 48 hours.

00:33:09.000 OK, so we will find out exactly what exactly this means.

00:33:13.000 Obviously, the language coming out of the Trump administration is extraordinarily militant.

00:33:16.000 Nikki Haley, who's the U.N. 1.00

00:33:17.000 ambassador, the U.S.

00:33:19.000 ambassador to the U.N., she says, listen, only monsters use chemical weapons.

00:33:22.000 Who does this?

00:33:25.000 Only a monster does this.

00:33:28.000 Only a monster targets civilians and then ensures that there are no ambulances to transfer the wounded.

00:33:35.000 No hospitals to save their lives.

00:33:37.000 No doctors or medicine to ease their pain.

00:33:41.000 I could hold up pictures of all of this killing and suffering for the council to see.

00:33:47.000 But what would be the point? 0.91

00:33:50.000 The monster who was responsible for these attacks has no conscience.

00:33:55.000 Not even to be shocked by pictures of dead children.

00:33:59.000 OK, General Mattis, of course, the head of the Department of Defense, our Defense Secretary, he says that he's not going to rule out anything, including possible U.S.

00:34:06.000 military action.

00:34:07.000 It seems like the chances of U.S. 0.80

00:34:08.000 military action are extremely high.

00:34:09.000 The president has indeed canceled the trip to South America that was already planned, and he's going to stay in Washington, D.C., which suggests that there are going to be some bombs flying over Damascus in the near future.

00:34:18.000 Here's Mattis talking about it.

00:34:20.000 The first thing we have to look at is

00:34:30.000 I don't rule out anything right now.

00:34:46.000 Okay, so this does raise one question.

00:34:48.000 All the language coming out from the Trump administration has basically been about the morality of what's happening in Syria.

00:34:52.000 We can all agree what's been happening in Syria is truly egregious, but there's one serious question.

00:34:57.000 We talked about it a lot yesterday, particularly whether the United States actually has interests in Syria.

00:35:02.000 Now, I made the case yesterday that we do have interest in Syria to the extent that we should be attempting to protect civilians from Assad's predations and we should be attempting to curb Iranian influence and Russian influence in Syria in order to protect against the Iranian caliphate that is going to threaten 0.97

00:35:16.000 All the geniuses tell us that Assad killed those children.

00:35:42.000 But do they really know that?

00:35:44.000 Of course they don't really know that.

00:35:46.000 They're making it up.

00:35:47.000 They have no real idea what happened.

00:35:50.000 Actually, both sides in the Syrian civil war possess chemical weapons.

00:35:54.000 How would it benefit Assad using chlorine gas last weekend?

00:35:58.000 Well, it wouldn't.

00:36:00.000 Assad's forces had been winning the war in Syria.

00:36:02.000 The administration just announced its plans to pull American troops out of Syria, having vanquished ISIS.

00:36:09.000 That's good news for Assad. 1.00

00:36:10.000 And about the only thing he could do to reverse it and to hurt himself would be to use poison gas against children.

00:36:16.000 Well, he did it anyway, they tell us. 0.95

00:36:18.000 He's that evil.

00:36:19.000 Okay, so Carlson is making a suggestion that's also been made by a lot of Russian sources, which is that Assad wasn't behind the chemical attacks at all.

00:36:26.000 And it is worth noting that there were some allegations that there's no actual evidence that Assad was behind chemical attacks in April 2017 either, that maybe that was something that happened because of Syrian rebels.

00:36:37.000 We're attempting to get a propaganda win or all the rest of it.

00:36:40.000 Now, I'm skeptical that Assad was not behind this simply because this is a large scale chemical attack.

00:36:45.000 Assad perpetrated large scale chemical attacks in Damascus in 2013 in front of the world press and didn't seem to care.

00:36:51.000 And Obama, of course, didn't seem to care very much about it either.

00:36:54.000 But the fact that that Carlson is calling this into question, what he's really saying here is what is our interest in Syria?

00:37:00.000 And I think that's a question that ought to be debated at the congressional level.

00:37:03.000 For all of my talk about how we ought to get involved at a certain level in Syria, and I've talked about minimizing American presence on the ground, using others to do it, using the Israeli Air Force as our proxy, using the American Air Force, this really does need to go through Congress.

00:37:17.000 In the end, I think that Congress is the branch that declares war, and obviously this is indeed another undeclared war.

00:37:24.000 Another undeclared war.

00:37:26.000 And so for all the talk about about what Trump should or should not do, unless it provides an immediate threat to the United States, I am with Rand Paul and Justin Amash in the sense that I think the Congress ought to be voting on this stuff.

00:37:35.000 OK, so meanwhile, the left is fighting mad, like very, very angry.

00:37:41.000 Over the fact that there is a movie that is out about Teddy Kennedy.

00:37:45.000 So, Chappaquiddick is out.

00:37:46.000 It did really well at the box office over the weekend.

00:37:48.000 So, good for all of you who saw it.

00:37:49.000 I was encouraging all of you to see it, not just because they're an advertiser on the program, but because the movie is actually quite good.

00:37:55.000 The movie made $5.8 million at the box office over the weekend.

00:37:58.000 The budget on Chappaquiddick was not high, if I get my numbers right.

00:38:03.000 But the reality is... So, the box office, I guess, was $6.2 million.

00:38:08.000 And what was the budget?

00:38:11.000 It looks like the budget, I guess, is not public at this point, but it was relatively low.

00:38:16.000 So, let's see, the studio spent $16 million on P&A, that's promotion and advertisement, and the distribution rights were acquired for $4 million, so it needs to make back globally maybe $20, $25 million to break even.

00:38:29.000 It will easily do that.

00:38:30.000 It overperformed at the box office last weekend, and one of the reasons that it overperformed is because the movie itself is very good.

00:38:35.000 Well, the left is very angry at the movie, though.

00:38:37.000 Because it's very critical of Teddy Kennedy, who left a woman to die at the bottom of a river inside a car that he escaped.

00:38:42.000 Okay, let's be real about this.

00:38:44.000 Teddy Kennedy drove off a bridge with a woman in the car.

00:38:46.000 He then escaped the car, let her die either of suffocation or of drowning, and then swam to shore, went to sleep for 12 hours, and called the cops.

00:38:53.000 So...

00:38:54.000 There are a bunch of people.

00:38:55.000 It's amazing.

00:38:55.000 There's so many people on the left who are now coming out and saying, how dare anyone question the credibility of Teddy Kennedy?

00:39:02.000 How dare anyone make an issue out of Teddy Kennedy?

00:39:05.000 It's just it's just insane.

00:39:07.000 I mean, you'd have to be totally crazy to really think there was some sort of conspiracy here, as the movie posits.

00:39:12.000 Well, the movie doesn't actually posit that Teddy Kennedy even had an affair with Mary Jo Kopechni.

00:39:16.000 It doesn't posit, for example,

00:39:18.000 That she was pregnant, which is one of the popular theories about Mary Jo Kopechny. 0.96

00:39:22.000 What the movie does posit is that he may or may not have been drinking that night, and that he is a douchebag. 0.95

00:39:27.000 Right?

00:39:27.000 I mean, that's basically the contention of the movie, is that Teddy Kennedy was a bad human being.

00:39:32.000 Which is exactly correct.

00:39:34.000 Right?

00:39:34.000 So there are two pieces in the last couple of days talking about this.

00:39:38.000 One from the New York Times, in which Teddy biographer Neil Gabler said that Chappaquiddick was too harsh on Senator Kennedy.

00:39:43.000 And they say, this is the tweet from the New York Times opinion page, ready?

00:39:46.000 Ted Kennedy was a real man living out a real life.

00:39:49.000 His political opponents could and did distort that life for their advantage.

00:39:52.000 But just how many liberties can an artist or entertainer take when deploying a biographical subject?

00:39:57.000 And now the reality is the Chappaquiddick sticks to the facts pretty damn closely.

00:40:00.000 Like, so closely that they don't even take the risk of making any of the allegations about him being drunk, which I think pretty clearly he was.

00:40:07.000 Teddy Kennedy was a lifelong drunk.

00:40:09.000 Teddy Kennedy

00:40:10.000 One of the reasons maybe you swim away from a car and go to sleep is that all the alcohol in your blood goes out of your system because whether or not you intended for the woman to be left in the car, if a woman dies in a car that you are driving while you are drunk, that is DUI manslaughter and you go to jail for a long, long time.

00:40:23.000 Teddy Kennedy did not report the thing until the next day when all of the alcohol presumably was out of his bloodstream.

00:40:30.000 But according to Neil Gabler, the real victim of the Chappaquiddick movie is Ted Kennedy.

00:40:33.000 Quote, So Teddy Kennedy isn't in the public domain?

00:40:48.000 I have my favorite part of this article from the New York Times is where the author of the article declares that Teddy Kennedy immediately and forever after felt deep remorse and responsibility for the accident.

00:40:59.000 It haunted him.

00:41:00.000 He did.

00:41:00.000 He felt such remorse, such deep, deep remorse that

00:41:04.000 In the mid-1980s, early 1990s, he actually sexually assaulted a waitress.

00:41:08.000 I mean, that's how much remorse he felt about his treatment of women.

00:41:11.000 And this is described by Michael Kelly in GQ.

00:41:13.000 Gavilio is a 103-pound waitress, a woman who was at a club that Kennedy was frequenting with a senator named Chris Dodd, who was also a Democrat. 1.00

00:41:22.000 This is a direct quote.

00:41:27.000 Kennedy grabs the 5'3", 103-pound waitress and throws her on the table. 1.00

00:41:30.000 She lands on her back, scattering crystal plates and cutlery and lit candles.

00:41:34.000 Several glasses and a crystal candlestick are broken.

00:41:36.000 Kennedy then picks her up from the table and throws her on Dodd, who's sprawled in a chair.

00:41:40.000 With Gaviglio on Dodd's lap, Kennedy jumps on top and begins rubbing his genital area against hers, supporting his weight on the arms of the chair. 0.95

00:41:47.000 As he is doing this, Lowe enters the room, Lowe is another waitress.

00:41:49.000 She and Gaviglio both scream, drawing one or two dishwashers.

00:41:52.000 Startled, Kennedy leaps up.

00:41:53.000 He laughs.

00:41:55.000 Yes, clearly Ted Kennedy learned his lesson.

00:42:00.000 Vox.com has another article today talking about Teddy Kennedy and how he really was a good guy and people ought to stop picking on him.

00:42:07.000 The same people who defended Teddy Kennedy say that Donald Trump should be impeached because he had an affair with a porn star and then paid a bunch of money to her to shut up and they say campaign finance is really what ought to take him down.

00:42:18.000 Spare me your moral indignation, folks on the left, unless you are really really into campaign finance reform.

00:42:24.000 You're the folks who upheld Teddy Kennedy for years and years and years and years.

00:42:28.000 OK, so in just a second, we'll get to some things I like and then some things that I hate.

00:42:32.000 And we'll do a Federalist paper since we didn't do one yesterday.

00:42:34.000 So time for some things I like.

00:42:36.000 So the thing that I like today.

00:42:38.000 I don't

00:42:56.000 Pursuing a guy it's sort of a Cinderella story that goes wrong But the music is really glorious, and it's really a it's it's not a fun ending, but it's a fun musical So check out once on this island.

00:43:07.000 Here is what one of the the opening number sounds like

00:43:20.000 We know the gods are happy when their green things grow.

00:43:25.000 They're angry when their rebirth starts to overflow.

00:43:31.000 And since we never know which way their wings will blow,

00:43:49.000 Okay, so the guy who wrote the music to this is Stephen Flaherty.

00:43:58.000 Stephen Flaherty also wrote the score to Ragtime, and it takes place in French Antilles in the Caribbean.

00:44:05.000 I think there's a revival on Broadway right now, so if you're in New York, go see the revival because I've heard that it is pretty good.

00:44:10.000 Okay, time for a quick thing that I hate.

00:44:15.000 So Jack Dorsey is the head of Twitter and apparently he has now been getting personally involved, personally involved in banning people from Twitter.

00:44:22.000 So we've been talking for a long time on this program about how social media is being used by the left in order to suck people in and then to censor what they see.

00:44:31.000 Well, apparently, Jack Dorsey is doing exactly that.

00:44:36.000 Apparently, he is now getting involved.

00:44:39.000 He has started banning people on the basis of personal choice.

00:44:45.000 And that is really not a good thing.

00:44:48.000 Apparently, his direct approach is a welcome change to some people who are on the inside of the company.

00:44:53.000 But now he is being like down to the individual, like saying which people should be banned and which people should not.

00:44:58.000 Well, if that's the case, then perhaps we should blame Jack Dorsey that, for example, Louis Farrakhan is still verified on Twitter, but Richard Spencer is not.

00:45:06.000 The leftist priorities of Jack Dorsey are very much in evidence.

00:45:08.000 He actually tweeted out the other day in an article.

00:45:11.000 That was pretty shocking about why the left should not tolerate the right.

00:45:16.000 So the fact that all of these social media companies are run by folks on the left, they say that their companies are unbiased.

00:45:26.000 They are not unbiased in the slightest, and people should be aware of that when they're using Twitter.

00:45:30.000 Obviously, the bans are being extended over time to a variety of people, and that's true on YouTube.

00:45:35.000 Which has been sued now by Prager University for demonetizing them.

00:45:39.000 It's extended obviously to Facebook, which I've sounded off on in detail here on this program.

00:45:43.000 It's true of Twitter as well.

00:45:45.000 Okay, so time for a quick Federalist paper since we didn't do one yesterday.

00:45:47.000 So we're on Federalist number 23.

00:45:49.000 We're about a quarter of the way through the Federalist papers.

00:45:52.000 And Alexander Hamilton wrote this particular Federalist paper.

00:45:55.000 And the goal of this Federalist paper is to explain what exactly the Constitution, the new Constitution, will do that the Articles of Confederation did not.

00:46:05.000 And Federalist 23 talks specifically about the purposes of government.

00:46:09.000 He says, quote,

00:46:23.000 That's it.

00:46:24.000 Those are all the things.

00:46:26.000 So for all the talk about how the federal government is supposed to regulate how much water you have in your toilet, and the federal government is supposed to be involved in criminal fact-finding, and the federal government is supposed to be involved in every area of your life, and we need thousands and thousands of pages of federal regulations released every year.

00:46:41.000 The fact is that, as the founders thought, there are very few actual

00:46:45.000 Goals for government.

00:46:46.000 Common defense.

00:46:47.000 Preservation against insurrection.

00:46:50.000 Regulation of commerce with foreign nations, i.e.

00:46:52.000 no internal tariffs and no external tariffs unless approved by the federal government.

00:46:55.000 That's it.

00:46:56.000 Those are all the things.

00:46:57.000 And yet somehow the federal government has grown to be super important in our daily lives.

00:47:00.000 And that's a demonstration of the fact that we have moved away from the founding vision.

00:47:05.000 The case for a powerful federal government is reliant on the areas in which the federal government is actually sovereign and sacrosanct.

00:47:12.000 Okay?

00:47:12.000 And those areas have to be pretty small, otherwise you're granting the federal government tremendous power over expanding areas of American life.

00:47:18.000 That's what the Anti-Federalists said.

00:47:19.000 And over time, they ended up being right as the federal government continued to grow and grow and grow, beyond the bounds that anyone, Federalist or Anti-Federalist, ever would have comprehended.

00:47:28.000 Okay, so we'll be back here tomorrow with all the latest, because there's always breaking news.

00:47:31.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

00:47:32.000 This is The Ben Shapiro Show.

00:47:37.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is produced by Mathis Glover.

00:47:39.000 Executive producer, Jeremy Boring.

00:47:41.000 Senior producer, Jonathan Hay.

00:47:42.000 Our technical producer is Austin Stevens.

00:47:44.000 Edited by Alex Zingaro.

00:47:46.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Coromina.

00:47:47.000 Hair and makeup is by Jesua Alvera.

00:47:49.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is a Daily Wire Forward Publishing production.

00:47:52.000 Copyright Forward Publishing 2018.

The Ben Shapiro Show - April 10, 2018

The Great Raid | The Ben Shapiro Show Ep. 514

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