On today's episode of The Sunday Special, I sit down with the man, the myth, the fearless leader of the Sweet Baby Gang, Daily Wire's very own Matt Walsh. Matt s latest exercise in trolling in the libs, Am I Racist? premieres in theaters September 13th. He s here to talk about the making of the documentary, the interviewees, and the rotten ideas it exposes. You know Matt best from The Matt Walsh Show, where his political commentary and cultural critiques highlight our nation s most alarming trends. Walsh is also the best-selling author of the children s book, Johnny the Walrus, which playfully points to the absurdity of transgender ideology. In 2022, Walsh s first documentary film, What Is a Woman? went viral around the globe for his clever expose of the gender medicine grift. Walsh s knack for revealing lies with satire has been captured once again in the new film, where the toxicity of racial equity is on full display. In the film, Matt infiltrates a white privilege grief workshop. He disguises himself as a DIE consultant to the queen of the anti-racist, Robin DiAngelo, all the while he threads the needle for us as viewers on the profound anti-Americanism that undergirds all of it. Don t miss this inside look at the film and grapple with the reality of the grift of the DEI industry. Don't miss it! out in theaters on September 13, 2019. and don t miss the rest of us here at Daily Wire with a brand new episode of the Sunday Special featuring Matt Walsh's Am I Racist? . featuring the star of the show, Matt Walsh! ! Matt Walsh, the man who made the film Am I racist? . . . Matt Walsh is a writer, director, producer, writer, and podcaster, and host of the podcast The Sweet Babies Gang. . He s also the author of Johnny The Walrus. He s a regular contributor to the New York Times Magazine, and hosts a weekly podcast called , and is a regular guest host on the pod cast of , where he gives us the inside scoop on what it s like to be in the biz. and what s going on in the streets of New York City, and gives us his thoughts on what s really going on on the streets. , including what s good, what s not good, and why it s good to be woke.
00:00:32.000On today's episode of The Sunday Special, I sit down with the man, the myth, the fearless leader of the Sweet Baby Gang, Daily Wire's very own Matt Walsh.
00:00:40.000Matt's latest exercise in trolling in the libs, Am I Racist?, premieres in theaters September 13th.
00:00:45.000He's here to talk about the making of the documentary and the rotten ideas it exposes.
00:00:49.000You know Matt best from The Matt Walsh Show, where his political commentary and cultural critiques highlight our nation's most alarming trends.
00:00:55.000Walsh is also the best-selling author of the children's book Johnny the Walrus, which playfully points to the absurdity of transgender ideology.
00:01:01.000In 2022, Walsh's first documentary film, What is a Woman?, went viral around the globe for his clever expose of the gender medicine grift.
00:01:08.000Walsh's knack for revealing lies with satire has been captured once again in Am I Racist?, where the toxicity of racial equity is on full display.
00:01:16.000In the film, Matt infiltrates a white privilege grief workshop.
00:01:19.000He disguises himself as a DEI consultant to the queen of the anti-racist, Robin DiAngelo, all the while he threads the needle for us as viewers on the profound anti-Americanism that undergirds all of it.
00:01:28.000Today, Matt and I discuss the making of the film, his observations on the interviewees, and the most sinister aspects of wokeness.
00:01:34.000All of us here at Daily Wire cannot wait for the rest of the nation to see the film and grapple with the reality of the grift of the DEI industry.
00:01:41.000Don't miss this inside look at Am I Racist?
00:02:51.000Well, we knew we wanted to explore... The first question is, like, what issue do you want to get into next?
00:02:56.000And it was pretty obvious we wanted to get into race and the anti-racism grift and DEI and all that stuff.
00:03:04.000And the next question is, like, well, how do you approach it?
00:03:07.000And, of course, with What Is A Woman, the whole...
00:03:11.000Kind of premise of the film is just me going around and asking very, very simple questions, remaining like a blank slate, not really skeptical, but also not believing anybody the whole time.
00:03:22.000I think we knew with this issue that that strategy probably doesn't work as well.
00:03:30.000And we don't want to just do the same thing over again.
00:03:32.000So our idea with this was like, well, What if we start in the same place?
00:03:39.000I start by just asking questions, but rather than remaining a blank slate, if I just take everything I'm told and believe it uncritically and then try to put it into practice, where will that take us?
00:03:54.000It made it fun, but also challenging because we didn't, when we started making the film, we honestly didn't know where it would go or what the film would be in its final, at the end.
00:05:37.000It spills out of you, like baubles from a...
00:05:40.000From a fountain of jewels, it's pretty incredible.
00:05:42.000In any case, to get back, I want to start this interview by playing a clip from the film, Am I Racist?
00:05:50.000Which, by the way, everybody should obviously go check out amiracist.com and pre-buy your tickets if you have not already, which you should have.
00:05:57.000But this is a clip from near the beginning of the film.
00:06:00.000Why don't you tee up the clip that we're about to play?
00:06:02.000This is sort of the very beginning of the film.
00:06:04.000Yeah, this is very early on, and we discovered that You know, there are these workshops that, I guess we ask ourselves, like, if I want to start this journey, where should I begin?
00:06:16.000Fortunately, there are a lot of DEI-certified experts out there offering their services for a fee, sometimes a quite handsome fee, and they have all kinds of workshops.
00:06:26.000And so we looked into these workshops, and one that we found was a workshop for your white grief to work through if you, as a white person, feel grief, And guilt over your privilege, which I, of course, do.
00:07:01.000There's a black woman who's the leader of the group instructing us.
00:07:06.000We were told when we first started, one of the rules is that if you're a white person in the group and you start to get emotional and cry, you can't cry in the group because white tears are manipulative.
00:07:18.000So there's a cry room that you can go to.
00:07:28.000We got into it, and I discovered, as we were sitting in the group and talking about it and going around in circles and answering questions, I started to get pretty emotional.
00:07:36.000It was... It was much more... It was much heavier than I thought it was going to be, I guess.
00:07:44.000And so I had to leave to go to the cry room at one point.
00:07:47.000And while I was in the cry room, unfortunately, a couple of people in the group realized who I was.
00:07:54.000They talked to the other people in the group.
00:07:57.000Told him who I really was, and this clip picks up with me re-emerging from the cry room, drying my eyes off, and then this is what happens.
00:08:06.000The white participants in the group feel that there's something in themselves that they have to overcome.
00:08:12.000When all that's being requested of you is that you be.
00:13:01.000And so people immediately assumed that because my last name was Shapiro and I went to Harvard Law School, I must be on the left.
00:13:05.000Because obviously Jewish liberal from Harvard Law.
00:13:07.000And so instead of wearing a yarmulke, I would wear a Harvard Law baseball cap, just walking in interviews and people would just say the thing.
00:13:30.000Most of the people we talked to were willing to perhaps even put their better judgment to the side if we just pay their fee.
00:13:39.000Which of course is funny because they also claim that they're fighting racism and they want to get the word out about that.
00:13:48.000But they'll only do it if you pay them.
00:13:52.000So that's one thing we do in the film.
00:13:55.000We tell the audience very directly, like, this is how much this person charged us to talk to them.
00:14:01.000And you're going to see that some of the price tags are quite substantial.
00:14:06.000And I think for folks who don't actually understand how deep-rooted this is in American society, I think most Americans, they look at this like, this is very fringy.
00:14:16.000Not that many people that I think normies know goes to a white guilt seminar where they weep about their Exposure to white privilege and all of this sort of stuff, most people are presumably not doing, as we'll see in another clip, a dinner party with Siri Rao.
00:14:38.000It's baked into employment policies at a wide variety of companies.
00:14:41.000According to Kamala Harris, it's baked into her policies as would-be president.
00:14:46.000Equity is pervading all parts of the federal government.
00:14:48.000Maybe you can explain for a second, like, why Americans should really care about DEI.
00:14:52.000It's become a buzzword on the right, but for a lot of people, they don't necessarily understand what it is.
00:14:56.000Yeah, well, I think the fact that most Americans aren't sitting around in a circle at a white grief seminar or going to a race-to-dinner event, that's sort of the point.
00:15:04.000That's why it matters, because most people are not true believers like this.
00:15:08.000They want nothing to do with this craziness.
00:15:11.000And yet, like, the people you see in the film are the ones who are coming up with these programs that are then foisted on normal Americans at their jobs.
00:15:22.000So, maybe in your free time you're not choosing to go to something like this, but the problem is that this stuff is brought to you in places where there's no reason why I would be there.
00:15:33.000The fact that you just want to work, you know, you're working a job that has nothing to do with any of this, and yet you're being forced to At the very least, listen to this sort of lecturing, if not actively affirm it in a lot of cases.
00:15:48.000So, this is why we have to care about it, because we really have no choice.
00:15:52.000I wish we were in a position where we could look at some of these people in the film and say, total fringe doesn't matter, what they say is totally irrelevant.
00:16:02.000I want to get to a point where it is irrelevant, but right now it's not.
00:16:06.000So, when you were preparing for the film, did you have to read a lot of the tomes from these people?
00:16:10.000One of the people who you get in the film is Robin DiAngelo, the author of White Fragility, which is one of the best-selling anti-racist books of the last 10 years.
00:16:18.000It's sold hundreds of thousands of copies.
00:16:19.000It was used as sort of the guide for the pathetic white people during the race riots of 2020, during the George Floyd uprising.
00:16:26.000Did you have to read through a lot of this material in order to prep for the film?
00:16:30.000There's only so much that I can subject myself to.
00:16:34.000I certainly, I listened to several lectures from these people.
00:16:36.000I did read Robin DiAngelo's book, White Fragility.
00:16:43.000I mean, it's just... And it's also just... By the way, folks, if you want to see like a full scale review of that, I think I once did like an hour and a half review of this on YouTube, where I went like point by point through Robin DiAngelo.
00:17:30.000All the people we talked to in the film, they all have the same central... It's the same central thesis.
00:17:35.000And the way they define racism is that they are participants in a system that perpetuates racism.
00:17:39.000As Ibram X. Kendi once suggested, he was asked to define racism and he said, a system that perpetuates racist ideas for racist purposes, which of course is not a definition of a term.
00:17:48.000You cannot define a term by using that same term.
00:17:50.000If I ask you to define shoe and you say, well, it's a shoe that fits on your foot, That has not helped in any way, shape, or form.
00:17:56.000Yeah, there was a moment in time when we slightly toyed with the idea that maybe this movie should really be called What is a Racist?
00:18:07.000Because we found that that right there is actually a question that trips these people up, which is just that.
00:18:15.000Um, and with... Ibn Rayskendi is not the only one who can't really define it, because if he gives the actual answer, which of course is... it's not complicated, like if you...
00:18:26.000If you hate someone because of their race, if you think another race is inferior to your own, then you're racist.
00:18:43.000And number two, they know that most people don't feel that way.
00:18:45.000And so if that's the definition of racism, the average person will hear that and think, okay, yeah, I legitimately don't feel that way about other races.
00:19:00.000They're not interested in implicating individuals, only insofar as they can then use those people as an attack on the broader, quote-unquote, racist system.
00:19:07.000And the way that they define racism is any system that perpetuates inequality, an outcome between two groups, is a racist system.
00:19:16.000And the way you can tell that the system perpetuates the inequality is that the inequality exists.
00:19:19.000So if there's any inequality of result between white people and black people in any measure of American life, except athletics, in any measure of American life, then it must be that this is a racist system and it's been set up by the group that is predominantly successful in order to victimize the other group.
00:19:35.000success equals racism in this particular way of viewing the world, which is why Asians
00:19:39.000are now white adjacent, because Asians are too successful, it's why Jews went from being
00:19:42.000Jewish to being white. It's why if you are a black person and you are too successful
00:19:47.000and you vote Republican, you are now considered white because you can't be part of that institutional
00:19:51.000structure. It's all ridiculous power games masquerading using the words that we all thought
00:19:57.000that we knew when we were growing up in the 1990s.
00:20:05.000And so you would see something racist and you would call it out and everybody sort of agreed on it and then we'd all move on with our lives.
00:20:10.000But that wasn't enough for these people because what it really is is a Marxist revolution in the guise of race speak.
00:20:16.000And, you know, they're lying about it and that's why they can't define it because if they were to define it, it would become clear.
00:20:21.000That's also why they Part of the game is, especially if they want to implicate Asians and even some black people as being somehow partly white, the way they do that, of course, is you just tack on "-ness," at the end, white "-ness," and so you turn, you know, they've turned racism into this kind of amorphous concept.
00:20:40.000And then they turn being white into an amorphous concept too, where it's... Yeah, if you have skin we consider white, then you're part of whiteness.
00:20:51.000But you can be a part of whiteness and not even be white.
00:20:55.000And we find that out in the film also.
00:20:57.000That's a theme they return to quite often, is there's white people and then there's whiteness.
00:21:05.000We'll get to more of that in just one second.
00:21:07.000First, the IDF is on high alert in preparation for yet another attack.
00:21:11.000Hospitals have prepared themselves to deal with mass casualties.
00:21:13.000Major airlines have halted flights into Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv.
00:21:17.000Israelis have been told to prepare for at least three days without power and electricity.
00:21:20.000In the event of an attack, Israelis across the country could be forced to spend days or even weeks in bomb shelters.
00:21:25.000While these shelters do keep Israelis safe, they need to be equipped with basic essentials for survival, including food and water.
00:21:31.000The Fellowship has launched a project to immediately equip bomb shelters with emergency food boxes for Israelis who have to remain there in case of an Iranian attack.
00:21:38.00010,000 of these food boxes have already been delivered.
00:21:40.000We're preparing to deliver thousands more.
00:21:42.000In northern Israel, the IFCJ has delivered firefighting equipment, protective equipment for hospitals, two bulletproof vehicles, much more to enhance security and protect both ordinary citizens and first responders.
00:22:18.000So, I think people don't understand how much work it takes to put into a film.
00:22:22.000They watch the final product, and unless you've actually lived it the way that you did, it's very difficult for the audience to see all the work that goes into doing something like this.
00:22:31.000For the sake of people understanding, how much time did you have to spend on the road?
00:23:21.000I think it's even more rewarding than like the work that goes, in my opinion, the work that goes into a podcast because people don't, People listen to a podcast and think that there's no work that goes into that, like we don't have real jobs.
00:23:34.000Which, you know, maybe is fair, but it actually is a lot of work that goes into it.
00:23:36.000But the problem is that you do a podcast, you give your take on whatever the news of the day is, and then tomorrow there's new news, and no one cares about what you said yesterday.
00:23:45.000So everything lives for like 12 hours.
00:23:48.000You do a film, there's a lot more work that goes into it up front, but hopefully, if it's successful, it will be relevant for more than a day.
00:24:15.000When I watched What Is A Woman for the first time and people were saying ridiculous things
00:24:18.000and you were just absolutely stone-faced, I mean, I'm okay at it.
00:24:22.000I'm pretty good, somewhere in the mid-range.
00:24:24.000You're like extraordinary levels of deadpan.
00:24:27.000And then there's a lot of that in this movie.
00:24:29.000Here you actually have to act as though you are sympathetic to the things that people are saying, which I think is actually in some ways harder and in some ways easier.
00:24:38.000First of all, which one did you find harder?
00:24:40.000To keep a straight face or to sort of mimic sympathy for the positions?
00:25:52.000I cannot cry on cue, that would be a thing.
00:25:55.000Yeah, but it is... The hardest part is always, in both of the films, is when you're in the room with just really terrible people who are saying awful things.
00:26:08.000So it's not like I have to hold myself from...
00:26:12.000Holding myself from laughing is not a problem for me.
00:26:14.000Holding myself from yelling at them and saying, you effing moron, what are you talking about?
00:26:25.000And really, in both films, it was very good that we had a great team behind us, Joseph Foucault, who's the director, who could kind of keep me on target.
00:26:37.000Because in both films, I got to a certain point where I said, We gotta stop doing it this way.
00:26:42.000Just put me in a room with one of these people so I can yell at them and argue with them.
00:26:47.000Let's just totally change the direction of this film and just make it that.
00:27:50.000And when we first decided to make this movie, the first thing I said to the team is, I want To get on Race to Dinner.
00:27:59.000We have to find a way to get to Race to Dinner.
00:28:02.000Because I'd heard of this Race to Dinner thing years ago.
00:28:04.000These are two women, Saira Rao and I believe Regina Jackson is the other one.
00:28:11.000And they've been doing this for several years now.
00:28:13.000And their whole thing is they go around the country and they go to dinners.
00:28:19.000And they sit at a dinner table with white women, only white women, and they sit there for two hours eating dinner and explaining to the white women why they are racist and horrible.
00:28:30.000And just really kind of breaking them down.
00:28:33.000It's like, it's honestly, you'll see in the film, it's like a, it is a, it's probably the first real brainwashing session, real intense brainwashing session that I have Personally witnessed and you can kind of see it happening and this is what these women do they go around the country and they charge money You know, they're paid thousands of dollars to come to dinner and call people racist now So we knew we wanted to this in the movie somehow First thought was of course was it'd be great if I could attend a dinner and sit there and be a part of it and We tried to make that happen and we discovered that no you have to be a woman You actually have to be a biological woman.
00:29:08.000Hmm They had another way of putting it.
00:29:10.000they said, I forget what they said, they said you had to be socialized as a woman.
00:31:22.000I'm so glad we can have these conversations, and I'll be done, but I'm just so glad that we could all get together to have these conversations.
00:31:54.000No offense, but... No, but see, like, you're a white dude.
00:31:57.000There's power positions, and, uh, you know, it's... Pointing... pointing... White people pointing fingers at each other is not helpful.
00:32:05.000You know, I've been on this journey for so long, and just to see you guys at the table having this conversation has been really enlightening for me.
00:32:14.000Anyway, got the DEI certification, and I'm just on the journey.
00:32:21.000All right, you ladies have a great night.
00:34:43.000Another thing we discovered, it's like an interesting psychological thing we found making these movies, that people just don't, they don't want to get up and leave situations, and they don't want to tell you to leave.
00:34:55.000People are willing to put up with way more than you think.
00:35:13.000That was a little bit of a, I guess, a behind-the-scenes... Some of the way the sausage is made here is that we were able to...
00:35:21.000We started making this movie about a year and a half ago, so it was kind of after the mask craze.
00:35:26.000But still, even now, like, if you go to really liberal areas— If you're a lefty, you can get away with that ten years from now, for sure.
00:35:31.000And so all the places we're going are, like, far-left spaces.
00:35:33.000And so, you know, we can use that to our advantage.
00:35:37.000I can walk into a place, have a mask on.
00:35:40.000They can't—not only can they not question it, But, and not only does it disguise your identity a little bit, but it actually gives you more credibility.
00:36:09.000I kind of expected that they would, but on the other hand, I guess there's not a lot they can say.
00:36:13.000Maybe, I'm sure eventually they'll come out, maybe once the movie comes out.
00:36:17.000Probably a lot of them are sitting kind of nervous right now and thinking about embarrassing things they said and thinking like, God, I hope that didn't make it into the film.
00:36:47.000At the very end of the film, I don't want to give too much away, but it's in the trailer.
00:36:54.000You can see that by the end, I had become a DEI expert myself.
00:36:59.000And if you're a DEI expert, what do you do?
00:37:01.000You have a seminar, and you start dispensing advice yourself.
00:37:05.000So by the end of the film, I was holding my own DEI seminars for people who came to be instructed in how to decolonize themselves and so on.
00:38:37.000Now you're on the phone with somebody important and your kids are crying and somebody needs a diaper changed and your wife's like, hang up the phone.
00:39:00.000But then it is kind of a magical thing.
00:39:03.000So much of that exists just in this little box.
00:39:06.000And you can go home and just put the box down.
00:39:10.000And it's like it's not even happening, which is kind of a power move to know that in this little box there are thousands of people that are really mad at you and yelling at you, and you're just with your kid reading them a book.
00:39:21.000That's why my favorite thing on Twitter on X is to mute people.
00:39:56.000And then the good thing is, I know we've talked about this a little bit off air, but of course, not surprisingly, people are much more bold on the internet than they are in real life.
00:40:05.000And it's a really interesting thing that Like, if you were to follow me on Twitter, or you on Twitter,
00:40:14.000You would think that when we go out in public, like, half of the people that come up to us hate our guts and are, like, throwing tomatoes at us and kicking us out and saying they'll come around here.
00:40:24.000I go out in public and it's 99.9999% of the time, if anyone talks to me, they're really friendly and, you know, they're just very supportive and they're wonderful, saying very nice things.
00:40:35.000It's, like, the very rare occasion when anyone says anything even remotely negative in person.
00:40:41.000All of that, almost all of it, lives in the little box.
00:40:45.000So to get back to the film itself, so obviously you're taking on TI, it's a big topic.
00:40:50.000It's obviously a big topic in this presidential election, and it's the undercurrent of the presidential election that we are not allowed to speak about.
00:40:55.000As I've said before, the media like to play the sort of bizarre who's on first game, where they're like, we are appointing the first black woman vice president, and it's so important, and you're like, that's kind of racist.
00:41:18.000Now, how much does, you know, the DEI mentality infect our politics?
00:41:23.000And what does it mean for this particular presidential election?
00:41:26.000Yeah, well, when we call her the DEI president, as you said, that's, that's, we're just taking them at their own word.
00:41:32.000And Joe Biden, This is what happens if you announce ahead of time that I'm only looking for... Now, you could claim... You could try to claim that... The most you could claim is that, well, she was the best black woman who was available.
00:41:47.000But that's the most you could say, because you announced ahead of time that you're only looking in that particular category of people.
00:41:57.000So... Yeah, it's a DEI president, and...
00:42:02.000In a way I guess it's sort of good because it brings us to the forefront and the reality is that having a DEI president is a troubling thought.
00:42:14.000It's even more troubling to me to think about having a DEI Airline pilot or, you know, heart surgeon.
00:42:23.000And the truth is that this stuff infects all those industries also.
00:42:27.000So, you know, the aftermath of What Is A Woman turned into a fair bit of activism.
00:42:31.000And the third act of What Is A Woman is all about you taking the fight to the left, you know, going after places that are transing the kids, trying to go to states and say that this has to stop, that this is cruel, it's unusual.
00:42:42.000I mean, it's basically a violation of the Eighth Amendment.
00:42:48.000When it comes to DEI, what are the sort of solutions that you hope that people take away from the film?
00:42:54.000Well, there are political solutions, some of which, you know, Donald Trump has talked about outlawing programs that exclude people on the basis of race, which are already supposed to be outlawed.
00:43:06.000Most of that stuff is, like, flagrantly illegal already.
00:43:10.000So shutting that down, which a lot of that could be done on a policy level, I think, A lot of the other changes, I think, could be made relatively easily with just lawsuits, but people that are affected by this stuff need to file lawsuits, and we've seen a little bit of that happening already.
00:43:28.000And yeah, we have an activist court system and all of that, but even so, I mean, this stuff is so flagrantly illegal that I think a lot of it only remains in place because it hasn't been challenged in the courts.
00:43:57.000A lot of them have been, not all of them, but a lot of them have been put in place.
00:44:00.000But then there's a cultural level of People need to not be afraid when it comes to what is a woman.
00:44:07.000They need to not be afraid to say what they know is true, which is that we all know what a woman is, we all know that it's wrong to do this to kids, and we all know it, so let's all live as though we know it.
00:44:18.000Let's have a kind of culture that is totally intolerant of that kind of madness.
00:44:22.000And I think we're starting to see that change culturally on the gender stuff.
00:44:27.000I think it needs to happen on the race stuff, too.
00:44:30.000Even if we make all the political changes that we need to make, we still have a problem if you have white people walking around feeling Burdened by guilt for things they didn't do that nothing to do with them It's just totally misplaced ambiguous kind of guilt that they but a lot of these people just carry around And and we have to get rid of that.
00:44:56.000It's like it's actually kind of a freeing message It's not that we're not saying that we all should be we all You know have things we've done that are wrong And so if you feel guilt there might be other things you've actually done in your life you need to explore but You don't carry any sins around because of what people of your race did or didn't do 100 years ago or 200 years ago.
00:45:18.000So, one of the arguments that I've heard on the right, I'm sure you've heard it also, is that we've hit Peak Woke, that we're actually on the other side of Woke Mountain and that it's all downhill from here.
00:45:25.000After spending this much time in Wokeland, what is your takeaway?
00:45:44.000And if I were to say yes, it would be because it does seem like the culture is a little bit less tolerant of some of the crazier woke ideas than they were even three years ago.
00:45:56.000Like, for example, when we did What Is Woman, we did the man on the street interviews, we walked, and this was, we were filming it three years ago.
00:46:04.000We went to many different cities and we just talked to normal people walking around and asked them basic questions about gender.
00:46:15.000And we found that the vast majority of people that we talked to, no matter where we went in the country, either didn't want to talk about it, were terrified to talk about it on camera, or gave answers that we could tell they didn't really believe.
00:46:29.000I think that if we went around and did man-on-the-street interviews now, in the same exact places, asking the same questions, I think we would get different answers.
00:46:37.000I think we'd find a lot more people that'd be willing to say, yeah, a woman is a female.
00:46:42.000No, of course a boy can't go in the girls' room.
00:46:52.000And I think that's probably the case with the race stuff too.
00:46:55.000So that would be an argument that maybe we have reached peak woke.
00:47:02.000The argument against that view, I guess, is just that this stuff is so deeply embedded that even if culturally, even if the average Joe on the street has woken up to a lot of this, we still have the institutions that run society.
00:47:18.000And those are still as crazy far left wing as they've ever been.
00:47:22.000And to change that is going to take, we're not lucky enough for that to be something we can change in a couple of years.
00:47:42.000I mean, so when you, you know, look at the people who you're profiling here, some of them are just absolute grifters.
00:47:49.000I mean, as you say, one of the things that happens in the film is you show the amounts of money that had to be paid in order to get these people in the room, and they are making absolute bank.
00:47:56.000I mean, Robin DiAngelo is making a lot of money doing this grift.
00:48:02.000She's doing it because it's a wonderfully lucrative grift.
00:48:05.000The question is that, you know, you having now inhabited this character, yes, it's pretend, but also, you know, you actually have to try, I assume, to think about what it would be like to be that person in order to be that person.
00:48:15.000Where do you think the attendees at Sarai Rao are coming from?
00:48:20.000What would motivate a human being to shell out thousands of dollars to go listen to Robin DiAngelo, not to mock her or to expose her, but to actually take her seriously?
00:48:29.000What is the mindset of a country that takes these people seriously?
00:48:33.000I think for those individual people, I would like to think it's as simple as a virtue signal, and they're trying to impress their liberal friends or whatever.
00:48:42.000But you don't sit around the table and pay money to endure that just as a virtue signal.
00:48:48.000I think you're there because at some fundamental level, you really believe it.
00:48:53.000And so for those people, they are true believers.
00:48:55.000And I think that on this issue in particular, if I were to psychoanalyze, I think a lot of it does come down to guilt, and people are carrying around a lot of guilt.
00:49:09.000And part of the problem is that, in the past, we had a way of understanding the guilt that we all feel, and you understood it in a religious context.
00:49:18.000You understood it as a spiritual problem.
00:49:20.000And there was also a remedy, which changes from religion to religion, but every religion has, like, a remedy for the guilt.
00:49:52.000And then you have the DEI grifters, the race grifters, that come in with an answer.
00:49:56.000And their answer is, Well, it's because you're white, because it's all racial.
00:50:02.000And by the way, here's what you can do to atone for that.
00:50:06.000Now, for people who aren't white, it's still a similar thing, because another thing people can walk around feeling is, you know, you feel like you're not where you want to be in life.
00:50:19.000You feel like you haven't progressed as much as you want.
00:50:22.000You know, we all have, to a certain extent or another, like an inferiority complex.
00:50:28.000And so the message from the race grifters, if you're in the non-white category is, yeah, well, you know, you feel that way because there's this conspiracy against you by these people over here.
00:50:39.000And so we're going to give you a way to channel those feelings.
00:50:42.000And so I think that's what's happening with a lot of these people.
00:50:45.000Yeah, that's such a great point about, you know, the kind of Misinterpretation of guilt because as you say most mainstream religions will say that there are activities that human beings participate that we all sin That's just what we are that we both have an identity problem because we're sinful creatures or creatures capable of sin But but also because we said I mean just got a daily basis.
00:51:05.000You're gonna break the rules You're gonna do things deliberately that you know violate the rules and that's that's a sin and then you have to address yourself with God and make yourself right with your fellow human being and God in order to alleviate all that and And secular leftism says there's no such thing as sin.
00:51:18.000So when it comes to your own personal activity, there's what the state says is wrong, which is not quite a sin.
00:51:24.000It's just kind of what the state says is wrong.
00:51:25.000But there's no reason for you to ever feel guilty about the things that you do.
00:51:31.000There's only, but that guilt has to go somewhere.
00:51:33.000So maybe you should feel guilty about the thing that you are, but not how you identify yourself.
00:51:38.000How about the things that are immutable?
00:51:39.000So we moved from you feeling guilty about the things that are mutable about you, namely your actions, your attitudes toward the world, the things that you do in the world, to guilt about the things that are immutable about you, your race, your sex.
00:52:31.000But over here, there's a certain pride for the white person who says, oh yeah, I'm guilty of being white.
00:52:40.000The moment they acknowledge that, then they take this almost weird, sick pride in the fact that they realize how terrible they are.
00:52:49.000And they get to feel... Now, they'll say all the time that they're not better than anybody else, but they clearly feel like they're better than the average white person for having recognized this about themselves.
00:53:01.000And then, and you know they feel that way, because then a lot of them will turn around... And lecture the other way.
00:53:06.000And lecture the other way, and charge money, because now they are part of the enlightened few.
00:53:13.000So you become a licensed DEI expert in the film.
00:53:15.000How hard was it to penetrate these circles?
00:53:18.000Because then you actually, in the film, it's not really a giveaway, because there's a clip of it, you actually end up giving DEI advice to people.
00:53:25.000How hard was it to penetrate this industry once you have your DEI certification, which I assume comes with some sort of Cracker Jack box or something?
00:53:38.000And once you are certified, it's very easy to get anywhere you want.
00:53:43.000That might change now, but when we made the film, at least when we were in production, it really does open up any door that you want to open.
00:53:53.000Probably because it just, again, it never occurred to them that anybody would be as terrible as we are and exploit it in this way.
00:54:03.000So, I don't know, I might have ruined it for the next person who wants to come along.
00:54:06.000You've destroyed the entire industry now, so.
00:54:08.000There goes a multi-billion dollar industry, Matt.
00:54:10.000First you take out the transing of the kids' industry, and now you're taking out the DEI industry, just single-handedly destroying the American economy.
00:54:16.000It's just causing a new Great Depression.
00:54:34.000Well, look, what I discovered with being a DEI trainer myself is that, you know, you're not saying anything, you just have to have certain buzzwords you have to know, and you just have to keep coming back to those buzzwords.
00:54:51.000A big one is decolonize yourself, decolonize your whiteness.
00:54:56.000I still don't know what that—honest to God, I'm not just saying I don't know what that means.
00:55:00.000After producing this film for a year and a half and hearing it a million times, I don't know what it means.
00:55:12.000All you have to do is say it to someone.
00:55:14.000You have to decolonize your whiteness.
00:55:18.000If you look serious while you say it, that's it.
00:55:20.000They're not going to ask you, you know, what do you mean by that?
00:55:22.000Because the other thing we discovered is that the people you're talking to, they don't want to admit that they don't know what you're saying, because they feel like they should know these terms.
00:55:34.000That's one of the tools of the woke trade here, is that they use these totally made-up terms, and they throw them into conversation, and they know the people listening aren't going to want to ask, like, what does that mean?
00:55:48.000Because if you ask that question, it means that you've already exposed yourself as not part of the club.
00:55:53.000So everybody just sits there, and they listen, and they nod along.