The Ben Shapiro Show - The Kraken | Ep. 1142

00:00:00.000 As states begin to certify their votes and courts begin to rule on Team Trump's legal challenges, Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell hold their big presser.

00:00:07.000 But did they actually release the Kraken?

00:00:09.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

00:00:09.000 This is the Ben Shapiro Show.

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00:00:23.000 Slash Ben, we're gonna get to all the news and plenty there is of it in just one moment.

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00:01:32.000 Okay, so.

00:01:34.000 There was a big presser yesterday.

00:01:35.000 This is the big news of the day.

00:01:36.000 Big presser yesterday, Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell.

00:01:40.000 This is the Team Trump legal team.

00:01:42.000 They describe themselves as the elite defense squad or something like that.

00:01:46.000 Okay, so they are alleging massive voter fraud and massive voter irregularity.

00:01:49.000 We're going to go through their claims in detail.

00:01:50.000 We're going to tell you what has been fact-checked and what has not, what is true and what is not, what requires more evidence, and what is sufficient.

00:01:58.000 But we have to set the ground rules here first.

00:02:01.000 What people say in a press conference is of zero, not just a little, zero consequence to the actual outcome of the elections.

00:02:09.000 What happens in court is of outcome to the election.

00:02:11.000 That has an impact on the outcome of the elections.

00:02:14.000 So, if I say there's not enough evidence at a press conference, that doesn't mean that not enough evidence will be provided in court.

00:02:20.000 I don't know what's provided in court.

00:02:22.000 Conversely, if somebody makes an outlandish claim at a press conference, that is not in and of itself evidence sufficient to overturn the results of elections in which millions of people have voted.

00:02:31.000 You're going to have to provide heavy evidence.

00:02:34.000 So, here's my job.

00:02:36.000 My job is the same as my job is every day, and that is to try and suss out the difference between speculation and evidence.

00:02:42.000 It's to try and tell you the difference between claims that have been verified and claims that have not been verified, and it's to ask for more evidence.

00:02:48.000 And this is true for any large-scale claim.

00:02:51.000 When people on the left talk about systemic racism and the evils of the American system, I always say I need specific evidence and I need a specific claim so that I can tell you whether it is true or false.

00:02:59.000 When people on the left point to a specific instance of a white cop shooting a black man and they say, this is evidence that America is systemically racist, I've asked this question a thousand times.

00:03:07.000 I'll say, okay, do you have evidence that that is a racist shooting?

00:03:09.000 Do you have evidence that it connects to a broader theme of racism in America?

00:03:13.000 What is your data?

00:03:13.000 What is your specific evidence?

00:03:15.000 Right?

00:03:15.000 We go through all of that.

00:03:16.000 Asking for evidence does not mean that I'm not concerned about racism.

00:03:19.000 It means that I am concerned about racism.

00:03:22.000 It means that before we label an entire system racist, or an entire system corrupt, or even an individual corrupt or racist, we need to make sure that we have evidence for the claim.

00:03:29.000 The same thing holds true in the realm of voter fraud and voter irregularity.

00:03:33.000 If I'm asking for evidence of a claim sufficient to overturn an election, that's because there are serious issues at play.

00:03:38.000 And when you're talking about a legal strategy that is largely designed at getting millions of votes thrown out or re-vote done in certain particular states, Or electors selected by the state legislatures, you need to provide outsized evidence of those claims.

00:03:51.000 Evidence should be the baseline standard for rational people.

00:03:54.000 It should be.

00:03:55.000 Anybody who tries to sell you... If they try to sell you a product without evidence, you should doubt them.

00:03:58.000 If they try to tell you...

00:04:00.000 That they have a big claim to make about the universe without any evidence.

00:04:03.000 You should doubt them.

00:04:04.000 If you are talking about something as large scale as a claim that maybe tens of millions of votes, but certainly millions of votes were shifted, for example, or that across the land, huge swaths of votes were discarded improperly or counted improperly, well, then you should be asking for the evidence.

00:04:20.000 That seems like the baseline, bottom line to me.

00:04:23.000 So we're going to go through the claims.

00:04:24.000 There are affidavits.

00:04:25.000 It's not that there's no evidence.

00:04:27.000 It's that we will see whether there's evidence sufficient to support the large scale claims that are being made.

00:04:32.000 Now, again, here is the note.

00:04:33.000 The press conference that happened with Giuliani and Ellis and Powell yesterday, It has no actual legal bearing and the time frame here is short.

00:04:41.000 So we're hearing a lot from Trump, Team Trump, and the Giuliani, Ellis, and Powell legal team that this is just the beginning.

00:04:49.000 They're going to be laying all this out in the coming days.

00:04:51.000 There's not a lot of time here.

00:04:53.000 Okay, the clock is running.

00:04:54.000 If you want to see the election results change from what they currently are, right, if you want to see the election results Change because you believe there is serious voter fraud and voter irregularity.

00:05:04.000 You need to bring the evidence now.

00:05:06.000 You don't have time to wait three weeks.

00:05:07.000 You don't have time to wait three months.

00:05:09.000 And that is why, if we are going to look at what Team Trump is actually doing, instead of seeing what they are doing in press conferences, we should actually be looking at what they are doing in court.

00:05:16.000 And here is where things start to get kind of dicey for Team Trump, because the fact is that states are starting to certify those votes, which means you best expedite this stuff.

00:05:23.000 If you're going to release the Kraken, that can't just be a lot of talk at a press conference.

00:05:26.000 It actually has to be a lot of evidence that you bring forth in a forum likely to change the outcome.

00:05:31.000 Because no matter what you think, or what I think of the election, no matter what anybody thinks of the election, it is going to be certified unless something factually changes on the ground and a lot of evidence is brought in order to change the legal outcome of various elections.

00:05:43.000 Right?

00:05:44.000 That is just a fact.

00:05:45.000 So here is where things stand as of right now in terms of court filings and recounts and everything else.

00:05:50.000 In Georgia, Georgia has now completed its hand tally of the presidential race in Georgia.

00:05:55.000 Gabriel Sterling released the information to the Associated Press on Thursday.

00:05:58.000 They did a hand recount of nearly 5 million votes.

00:06:01.000 The state has until today to certify the results that have been certified.

00:06:04.000 and submitted by the counties.

00:06:05.000 Once the results are certified, the losing campaign can then request another recount if they want one.

00:06:11.000 Okay, the fact is that the election numbers have not changed.

00:06:15.000 There were about a thousand votes that shifted over the course of the recount because a bunch of votes were found.

00:06:20.000 About a thousand votes shifted in the hand recount over into the Trump camp, or at least were added to the Trump camp, which means that right now, the deficit for Trump is about 13,000 votes, or it was about 14,000 votes.

00:06:31.000 That's not enough, obviously, to overturn the results of the election.

00:06:34.000 And the high likelihood is that the state of Georgia is going to certify those election results, barring some sort of last minute Parachuting in of massive evidence of voter fraud.

00:06:43.000 Meanwhile, it is important to note that in Pennsylvania, then in Michigan, the Trump campaign withdrew its Michigan election lawsuit.

00:06:49.000 Andy McCarthy writing over at National Review, he says the Washington Times reports the Trump campaign has now dropped a federal lawsuit in Michigan by which it challenged over a million mail-in ballots in the hope of preventing the state government from certifying the election result.

00:07:00.000 He says it is clearly a face-saving measure.

00:07:02.000 The suit had no chance of success.

00:07:03.000 The rationale the campaign has given for dropping the case is inaccurate.

00:07:06.000 We talked about this a little bit yesterday, that we've had a little bit of a mix-up, confusion, maybe some pressure brought to bear.

00:07:13.000 In the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, there were two Republicans and two Democrats.

00:07:16.000 The Republicans initially voted not to certify the election results from Wayne County.

00:07:20.000 Then they shifted over and voted with the Democrats to certify the results.

00:07:23.000 Then they filed affidavits suggesting that they were pressured into certifying the results.

00:07:27.000 All of this was because the poll books didn't line up.

00:07:29.000 Poll books are where you sign in to vote, and then the number of votes didn't match the poll books.

00:07:33.000 Now, the grand total number of discrepancies there was not in the thousands.

00:07:37.000 It was not in the hundreds of thousands.

00:07:38.000 Apparently, including all of the discrepancies in the poll books, you were talking about hundreds of votes.

00:07:44.000 And they were talking about the possibility of filing a lawsuit on that basis.

00:07:44.000 Okay?

00:07:47.000 to overturn 1.4 million votes in Wayne County.

00:07:50.000 That obviously is not going to be the proper remedy.

00:07:52.000 You can't disenfranchise 1.4 million people because the poll books didn't line up for 350 votes.

00:07:57.000 The discrepancy there is just too large, and you're talking about a state in which Trump right now trails in the count by about 150,000 votes.

00:08:04.000 According to Annie McCarthy, the campaign claimed the lawsuit was being withdrawn as a direct result of achieving the relief they sought with Wayne County not certifying the vote, but of course, Wayne County did certify the vote, so that obviously is not even true.

00:08:14.000 Okay, so Team Trump withdrawing the lawsuit in Michigan That was a face-saving measure, as Andy McCarthy says.

00:08:20.000 It was not because they actually got what they wanted in Michigan.

00:08:22.000 They didn't get what they wanted in Michigan.

00:08:25.000 So the vote to certify the Wayne County ballot still under state law is going forward.

00:08:31.000 Jim Garrity explained that for the Michigan County certifications to be transmitted to the state cannabis board, that is the next step for full certification.

00:08:38.000 The Trump campaign used the purported rescissions as an opportunity to declare an optical victory and then drop the Michigan lawsuit.

00:08:45.000 Now, they're not claiming that there weren't voter irregularities.

00:08:49.000 They're just sort of recognizing that they weren't going to get the relief that they sought from the courts.

00:08:51.000 And so they quietly dropped the lawsuits and then claimed victory, which of course is not going to be effective in actually changing the outcome of everything happening in Michigan.

00:09:00.000 Now, meanwhile, in Pennsylvania, something similar has been happening.

00:09:04.000 As Annie McCarthy says, the lawsuit that was filed by Team Trump in Pennsylvania was dependent on large-scale claims that voter fraud had basically taken place.

00:09:14.000 And then, in the middle of the court hearing, they actually dropped the charge of voter fraud from the lawsuit itself.

00:09:19.000 Now, that doesn't mean they didn't say there was voter fraud.

00:09:21.000 They still say there's voter fraud.

00:09:22.000 They just say that their claim of voter fraud is not enough to sustain the relief they are seeking.

00:09:25.000 Namely, To put aside the results of the election as currently constituted in Pennsylvania.

00:09:31.000 They realized they couldn't meet the high burden of proof that voter fraud would require, and so they dropped that claim from their Pennsylvania lawsuit.

00:09:36.000 So if they're out there claiming voter fraud, not in court, and they're doing it publicly, that does not actually change the outcome of the election.

00:09:41.000 It may change public opinion on voter fraud, it's not gonna change the outcome of the election in Pennsylvania, which means the window continues to narrow.

00:09:48.000 We're gonna get to more of this in just one second.

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00:11:03.000 Okay, so Again, all of this is giving the legal background for where we currently stand, because whatever is said in a press conference is of no impact in a court.

00:11:11.000 What is said in court is of impact in a court.

00:11:13.000 So, according to Annie McCarthy, the lawsuit in Pennsylvania cannot conceivably change the result in Pennsylvania.

00:11:18.000 The court will probably not even rule on the lawsuit.

00:11:21.000 The campaign has sort of gotten a bad rap, says Andy McCarthy, for dropping its main counts, which allege that there were gross improprieties amounting to fraud in Pennsylvania's tabulation of the vote.

00:11:30.000 Abandoning the counts seemed inexplicable on Sunday, given the campaign was simultaneously alleging massive fraud on TV.

00:11:34.000 But there is an explanation.

00:11:36.000 Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit issued a ruling that destroyed the viability of those counts.

00:11:36.000 On Friday, the U.S.

00:11:41.000 The campaign shed the fraud-related counts in response to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals ruling.

00:11:45.000 The fault lies in pressing ahead with a narrower suit that can't change the outcome of the race in Pennsylvania, even in the unlikely event the campaign prevails.

00:11:53.000 So, here is the problem.

00:11:55.000 The claims that are still alive in Pennsylvania are talking about, again, hundreds or maybe low thousands of votes.

00:12:02.000 They're not talking about the number of votes significant enough to actually call for an overturning of the election.

00:12:09.000 And basically, Team Trump acknowledges that at this point.

00:12:13.000 The Third Circuit brings us news of how negligible is the number of votes involved when you're talking about, for example, the claim by Team Trump that a bunch of people had been post-marking their ballots after the actual election date.

00:12:24.000 Apparently, this is a very low number of ballots.

00:12:27.000 Out of 7 million total ballots cast in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the Secretary of State reported to the court only 9,383 votes were received statewide in the three days after November 3rd, even if all of those were Biden votes, which they weren't.

00:12:37.000 And if the court voided all of them, which it won't because some of them were in fact postmarked before November 3rd, Trump would still be 73,000 votes short in Pennsylvania.

00:12:45.000 Only 655 total lack a legible postmark, which of course is not going to shift the outcome of the election.

00:12:52.000 Also, there's a problem between state and federal law.

00:12:55.000 The Third Circuit explains there is no judicially cognizable federal right to force state or federal governments to comply with the law.

00:13:03.000 Normally, you have to claim that there's a federal right that has been violated.

00:13:05.000 If, in fact, the state law allows for something to happen, it's hard to make an equal protection claim on the federal basis.

00:13:12.000 They said that there is no equal protection violation because of the state's three-day extension.

00:13:18.000 The court noted that in addition to Pennsylvania, 19 states and D.C.

00:13:20.000 permit the receipt of votes post-election.

00:13:22.000 Voters don't suffer a cognizable harm based on what for them is a formalistic difference between whether post-election receipt is authorized by statute or by a ruling of the state's highest court.

00:13:30.000 So they're saying it's not an equal protection case either.

00:13:32.000 Okay, so that doesn't mean that's a good ruling.

00:13:34.000 It does mean that the Trump legal team's chances in Pennsylvania are basically down to nothing unless they actually come out with serious, robust evidence of serious, large-scale voter fraud.

00:13:48.000 That is just the reality of the situation.

00:13:50.000 That's not me.

00:13:51.000 That's the law.

00:13:52.000 I understand that people can be angry at the law.

00:13:54.000 They can feel like the law should allow for the overturning of large-scale voting based on the possibility of fraud or based on proof of small-scale voter problems.

00:14:07.000 That theoretically could be larger scale voter problems, but you don't have evidence to prove it's hundreds of thousands of votes?

00:14:11.000 Okay, but the reality remains that that is not how this is going to work.

00:14:15.000 Okay, in the end, if you make outsized claims, like we need to disenfranchise 7 million voters in Pennsylvania, or we need to disenfranchise 5 million voters in Michigan, or we need to disenfranchise 5 million voters in Georgia, you're going to need more than a few hundred votes were shifted here, or there's a possibility that hundreds of thousands of votes were shifted, but we don't actually have proof that these votes were shifted.

00:14:35.000 Claims, outside, large claims require large levels of proof.

00:14:35.000 Right?

00:14:39.000 Okay, so, if you're gonna release the Kraken, now is when you need the tsunami of evidence that demonstrates that hundreds of thousands of votes were shifted, right, across the country.

00:14:47.000 And at the very least, that some 13,000 votes were shifted in Georgia, if Trump is supposed to win Georgia, and 13,000 votes were shifted in Arizona, or went missing, or were fraudulently counted in Arizona, or that 150,000 votes were fraudulently counted or shifted in Michigan, or that 80,000 votes were shifted or fraudulently counted in Pennsylvania, right?

00:15:05.000 That is what you're going to need to prove in court.

00:15:06.000 So that is the predicate.

00:15:07.000 It would have to be a Kraken, right?

00:15:08.000 You would need to actually have an extraordinary level of evidence.

00:15:12.000 Now, I'm not saying that Team Trump doesn't have that extraordinary level of evidence.

00:15:15.000 I'm just saying that they need to present it.

00:15:16.000 They don't need to present it to me.

00:15:17.000 They need to present it to a court.

00:15:19.000 But you can't keep coming out publicly and saying you have presented the evidence when you have not yet presented the evidence publicly and then say, okay, well, it's in court and the courts will see all of that evidence.

00:15:28.000 Okay, well, now you're where I am, which is okay.

00:15:30.000 The court's going to rule and the process is going to move forward.

00:15:33.000 Now, sort of the preemptive panic attack that is happening in the media that the election is going to be stolen or that this is really horrible for our democracy.

00:15:39.000 There's a legal process, as I've been saying since the beginning.

00:15:42.000 The legal process will move forward.

00:15:43.000 The legal process will require evidence.

00:15:45.000 There will be, if the legal process does not find massive evidence of voter fraud or voter irregularity and does not overturn the current vote counts, there will be an inauguration and there will be a peaceful transfer of power.

00:15:55.000 Mitch McConnell has said this.

00:15:56.000 Every state legislature has said this.

00:15:59.000 And I will say that I don't think that it's a great look that President Trump has, for example, called up people in the Michigan legislature and asked them to come visit the White House in the middle of all of this.

00:16:10.000 The implication, theoretically, people are speculating, is that Trump is calling them up because he wants them to come visit, and then he's going to convince them to elect a slate of electors as opposed to simply going along with certifying the vote.

00:16:20.000 Now, the Michigan legislature has already said, we're not going to do that.

00:16:23.000 We're not going to ignore the votes of our millions of people and just put up a slate of electors based on vague allegations of voter fraud or even specific, but very closely enumerated allegations of voter fraud that don't amount to the difference between Joe Biden's vote and your vote.

00:16:38.000 Still, it's not a particularly good look.

00:16:40.000 So, once again, here's all I'm saying.

00:16:42.000 Here's the predicate.

00:16:42.000 What happens in court matters.

00:16:44.000 What happens in a presser doesn't.

00:16:45.000 Even in a presser, if you're going to make a robust claim to the American public of serious voter fraud and serious voter irregularity, that requires robust evidence, not just Of occasional voter fraud, or occasional voter irregularity, or even the possibility of voter fraud or voter irregularity.

00:16:58.000 I mean, there are lots of possibilities out there.

00:17:01.000 And I will take, under advisement, all of those possibilities.

00:17:03.000 I think there's plenty of ways that we can clean up the system.

00:17:05.000 I think mail-in voting, full-scale mail-in voting, has been proved this time around, as always, to be a disaster.

00:17:10.000 It is much harder to check.

00:17:11.000 I've been in favor of voter ID in person on the day of voting, except for people who literally require an absentee ballot because, for health reasons or any other legit reason, they cannot get to the polling place.

00:17:21.000 It turns out millions of people could vote and it didn't spread COVID everywhere.

00:17:24.000 So, this was a bad idea.

00:17:25.000 It was a bad idea beginning to end.

00:17:27.000 That does not mean that the burden of proof has been reached.

00:17:30.000 There is indeed a burden of proof in allegations alone, and even affidavits alone, attesting to specific acts do not imply that hundreds of thousands of votes were shifted.

00:17:38.000 Now, Sidney Powell is claiming something different.

00:17:40.000 Sidney Powell is claiming that the system actually was hacked and millions of votes were shifted.

00:17:45.000 We'll get to all of these allegations in just one second, because the press conference, on the one hand, is being taken by some as, this is the Kraken.

00:17:51.000 The press conference alone is enough for us to overturn the election, which is not correct.

00:17:56.000 And then, on the other hand, you have people saying, everything in the press conference is bullcrap, and we should just ignore all of it, and we should not investigate any of these claims, and that, of course, is silly as well.

00:18:04.000 All claims of voter fraud and voter irregularity that are legit should be investigated, that are credible should be investigated.

00:18:10.000 Also, a burden of proof has to be reached.

00:18:13.000 Hey, that's just the way it's going to be.

00:18:14.000 The election outcome ain't going to change based on your opinion or my opinion.

00:18:17.000 It's going to change based on what is proved in court.

00:18:20.000 End of story.

00:18:21.000 End of story.

00:18:21.000 OK, so we're going to get to the presser in just one second and we'll see whether the whether the Kraken was indeed released first.

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00:19:38.000 Okay, so, finally, we got to the Kraken releasing press conference, right?

00:19:41.000 We had been promised this.

00:19:43.000 Sidney Powell had said she was going to release the Kraken.

00:19:45.000 Vast amounts of evidence.

00:19:47.000 And she was going to really demonstrate full scale that this election was stolen.

00:19:51.000 And so the press conference leads off with Rudy Giuliani.

00:19:55.000 And Rudy sort of lays out the preliminary case.

00:19:57.000 He says that, you know, it's very weird that on election night, Trump was leading by all of these votes.

00:20:02.000 And then by the end of the election, he was not leading in a variety of these states.

00:20:07.000 Now, you can call that weird.

00:20:08.000 The reality is that that was rather expected because the Democrats were really, really pushing hard.

00:20:12.000 I mean, you remember this.

00:20:13.000 They were pushing super hard mail-in voting, right?

00:20:16.000 Mail-in voting was their thing. 0.54

00:20:17.000 Trump was saying, well, mail-in voting is bad, which is correct. 1.00

00:20:20.000 But that did dissuade a lot of Republicans from voting mail-in.

00:20:23.000 Instead, they heavily outweighed Democrats on day of voting.

00:20:25.000 This was expected, right?

00:20:27.000 And then when the mail-in votes started to be tabulated at the end of the night, because they're tabulated after the in-person votes, the in-person votes are tabulated basically on the spot.

00:20:34.000 The election happens within an hour.

00:20:35.000 You know what has been tabulated in person.

00:20:38.000 And in places like Pennsylvania, they were actually not legally allowed to tabulate the mail-in votes.

00:20:42.000 As those came in, you started to see this growing wave for Biden in places like Pennsylvania.

00:20:47.000 But Rudy says that the timing was weird.

00:20:49.000 A lot of people did find it weird.

00:20:50.000 Here's Rudy.

00:20:53.000 The president way ahead on election night.

00:20:56.000 Seven or eight hundred thousand in Pennsylvania.

00:20:59.000 Somehow he lost Pennsylvania.

00:21:02.000 We have statisticians willing to testify that that's almost statistically impossible to have happened in the period of time that it happened.

00:21:09.000 But of course that's just speculation.

00:21:12.000 Okay, that is just speculation.

00:21:13.000 So, then he gets to the actual specifics.

00:21:16.000 Okay, so he says, in Pennsylvania, we have affidavits that suggest that there was mail-in voter fraud.

00:21:22.000 Here's the allegation.

00:21:23.000 Again, remember, important thing.

00:21:26.000 Giuliani represented Team Trump in court in Pennsylvania.

00:21:29.000 He was specifically asked if they were making allegations of voter fraud.

00:21:31.000 He said, we are not actually going to demonstrate legal allegations of voter fraud because that is a high bar for us to clear.

00:21:37.000 That doesn't mean that voter fraud could not have occurred.

00:21:40.000 But it means that this is not a claim he's actually making in court.

00:21:42.000 Here's Rudy Giuliani.

00:21:44.000 So let's start with the specifics.

00:21:46.000 Pennsylvania.

00:21:48.000 In Pennsylvania, the margin of victory now for Biden, which is not a victory, it's a fraud, is 69,140 votes.

00:21:58.000 69,140 votes.

00:22:02.000 The reality is that we are now at a count of 682,770 ballots for which we have affidavits that there was no inspection of that ballot at the time that it was entered in the vote.

00:22:18.000 It was a mail ballot.

00:22:20.000 Mail ballots are particularly prone to fraud.

00:22:23.000 So he is not actually making an allegation that fraud happened.

00:22:26.000 He is saying that there weren't observers who are close enough to the ballots to be able to see the mail-in ballots when they were tabulated.

00:22:33.000 And so theoretically, all of those could be fraud.

00:22:35.000 Okay, that is a pretty... If you want to get 700,000 votes thrown out, you're gonna have to show there was some fraud in those 700,000 votes.

00:22:42.000 That's a lot of people.

00:22:44.000 Remember, each one of those people is a person voting.

00:22:46.000 So you have to assume a lot in order to get there.

00:22:50.000 Again, is there a possibility of fraud?

00:22:52.000 Yeah, that's why you have election observers.

00:22:54.000 But is that enough to throw out 700,000 votes?

00:22:55.000 You're going to have to prove that in court.

00:22:57.000 And again, he didn't claim voter fraud in court.

00:23:00.000 It's important to recognize that.

00:23:01.000 What you claim in court is what's actually going to be ruled upon, not what gets claimed in press conferences.

00:23:05.000 Okay, then Giuliani suggested that the recount being done in Georgia is illegitimate.

00:23:09.000 The reason it's illegitimate is because he says that the signature verification that happened in Georgia was inaccurate.

00:23:16.000 There was signature matching, and signature matching was done poorly in Georgia because if you have an absentee ballot, then you put it in an envelope.

00:23:24.000 You sign the envelope.

00:23:25.000 The envelope signature is then matched up to the signature book, right, for your absentee ballot application.

00:23:32.000 They're matched up, then you throw away the envelope, and then you count the ballot.

00:23:35.000 His suggestion is that there are a bunch of people in Georgia who basically were not matching up the ballot envelope with the actual signature in the book, so they were counting naked ballots, and those naked ballots could have been fraudulent. Here is Giuliani trying to make that claim. So for example, the recount being done in Georgia will tell us nothing, because these fraudulent ballots will just be counted again, because they wouldn't supply the signatures to match the ballots.

00:24:04.000 We'll get to the sort of fact check on that in just a second, how the process actually works in Georgia.

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00:25:27.000 Okay, so...

00:25:30.000 When Giuliani suggests that the recount in Georgia isn't effective because you are actually just tabulating ballots, that the envelope was thrown away on the outside, right?

00:25:40.000 It was disconnected, and therefore it was never actually signature verified.

00:25:44.000 He's correct.

00:25:45.000 You can't re-signature verify the ballots, right?

00:25:47.000 I mean, that part is true. 0.62

00:25:48.000 Once you've thrown away the part that was the signature verification, then theoretically, if you did it wrong the first time, you are retabulating a bunch of ballots that were originally mischecked.

00:25:57.000 But Brendan Keefe, the Chief Investigator at Atlanta's WXIA, he says signatures are verified before ballots are counted.

00:26:04.000 They can't be checked again in a recount under the Georgia Constitution because that would betray the secrecy of a voter's identity.

00:26:10.000 You would then know how the voter voted and you'd be checking their ID at the same time.

00:26:13.000 He says these votes actually were verified in 159 Georgia counties overseen by the Republican Georgia Secretary of State.

00:26:19.000 Any disputes or questionable signatures went to a three-person adjudication team.

00:26:23.000 One Republican, one Democrat, one staffer.

00:26:26.000 Okay, so apparently they were checked.

00:26:29.000 Giuliani is claiming that they weren't properly checked.

00:26:31.000 He's gonna have to provide the evidence of that allegation, obviously, in a Georgia court.

00:26:36.000 Okay, the next allegation is he moved on to Pennsylvania.

00:26:38.000 And he says that in Pennsylvania, this is a claim that is still part of that Pennsylvania lawsuit.

00:26:43.000 And the idea is that in certain areas, you were allowed to cure your ballot more easily than if you cured your ballot in other areas.

00:26:48.000 So, you came in, you cast a ballot, you realized you made a mistake on the ballot, you went over, and now you were allowed to cure your ballot.

00:26:55.000 Or you sent in an absentee ballot, and then you came in to check it, and you realized you'd screwed it up, and you were allowed to cure the ballot.

00:27:01.000 And he says, well, the ballot curing period for different areas was different, and so that's an equal protection violation, meaning that you have two different standards in two different counties.

00:27:09.000 Number one, the number of votes in Pennsylvania that this happened to is probably not the 70 or 80, not probably not, almost certainly not, the 80,000 vote discrepancy that you're talking about in Pennsylvania.

00:27:21.000 And beyond that, The allegation presumably is that curing the, it's one thing to say curing the ballots a week out is bad because it violates statute.

00:27:28.000 It's another to say that the curing the ballot standard at the actual polling place was a little looser in one place and a little less loose in another place.

00:27:36.000 And this disenfranchised people, you need evidence that people who are Republican were disenfranchised and the people who are improperly voting were enfranchised.

00:27:43.000 That evidence has not yet been provided.

00:27:44.000 Presumably that will be provided in court, right?

00:27:46.000 I mean, that's gonna have to be part of the court case.

00:27:47.000 Here's Giuliani.

00:27:51.000 For example, if you've made a mistake in that ballot and you lived in Philadelphia or in Pittsburgh, you were allowed to fix the mistake.

00:28:05.000 you But if you lived in the what would be considered more Republican or Trump parts of the state, you were given no such right.

00:28:15.000 Okay, so again, that is a claim that is being made in Pennsylvania court and that will be adjudicated.

00:28:21.000 He continues, and he talks about provisional ballots, and here again, he's now alleging voter fraud, but he does not actually allege voter fraud in court.

00:28:27.000 I keep pointing out this discrepancy between what he alleges in court and what he alleges in a presser, because what you allege in a presser is of no legal consequence.

00:28:35.000 What you allege in court is what is of legal consequence, if you actually care about the outcome of the election.

00:28:40.000 If you care about the sort of PR of this, if you care about, you know, the image that Trump didn't lose, then the pressure matters.

00:28:46.000 But if you actually are one of the people who's invested in the outcome of the election and in voter regularity and non-voter fraud, then what happens in court is significantly more impactful.

00:28:55.000 What happens in court matters significantly more.

00:28:57.000 So here's Giuliani suggesting that people went in and fraudulently cast provisional ballots.

00:29:03.000 Now, That is not an allegation that he's made in court in Pennsylvania.

00:29:06.000 Again, it's important to note this stuff.

00:29:09.000 I don't mean to be a wet blanket and I don't think it's being a wet blanket to say that I would love nothing better than to see Donald Trump inaugurated again on January 20th.

00:29:18.000 In order for that to happen, this stuff has to happen in court.

00:29:21.000 It can't just be Giuliani throwing things out in a press conference that he then does not allege in court.

00:29:25.000 Here's Giuliani.

00:29:27.000 Why did it happen 15,000 times that people in Pittsburgh walked in to vote and they Had already voted according to the Democrat election machine.

00:29:42.000 Did they forget?

00:29:43.000 That many people with bad memories in Pittsburgh?

00:29:48.000 Or is the following correct?

00:29:51.000 That as witnesses will testify, they were instructed by the Democrat bosses, when they had a ballot in which there was no one registered, just assign it to somebody.

00:30:03.000 Just assign it to Rudy Giuliani.

00:30:06.000 Okay, so now the idea is that you have random people basically told by the Democratic bosses walking into Pennsylvania polling places and just taking out fraudulently ballots that have not been assigned to anybody yet, right?

00:30:18.000 There was an absentee ballot sent out, nobody turned it back in, so you walked in and you basically said you were that person, then you voted.

00:30:23.000 That's an allegation of voter fraud.

00:30:24.000 Again, he's not making that allegation in court.

00:30:26.000 He says he has affidavits to prove it.

00:30:28.000 Okay, seriously, good.

00:30:30.000 Let's investigate all of those affidavits.

00:30:32.000 Let's see all those affidavits.

00:30:33.000 That'd be good.

00:30:34.000 And I'm not saying I need to see them, but the court certainly is going to need to see them.

00:30:37.000 Okay, then Giuliani makes the case that the observers, Republican observers, were not allowed in the room in order to see what was going on.

00:30:44.000 Now, what the courts have found is that Republican observers in places like Pennsylvania were allowed in the room, but that they were being put Too far away, in certain cases, since there was this temporary injunction that was put in place to get the observers a little bit closer.

00:30:55.000 Here is Giuliani talking about this and then invoking my cousin Vinny.

00:30:59.000 This, of course, the media only wanted to focus on a couple things from this press conference because they didn't actually want to cover a lot of the substance of the press conference.

00:31:04.000 They focused in on two particular things.

00:31:06.000 One, Giuliani doing an entire scene from my cousin Vinny, which he actually did.

00:31:10.000 And two, the fact that Giuliani, who dyes his hair, had his hair dyed.

00:31:13.000 He was sweating a lot.

00:31:14.000 His hair dye started running down his face in the middle of the press conference, which of course is an optical boo-boo, but has no impact on what the man is actually saying.

00:31:22.000 Here was Giuliani.

00:31:26.000 They weren't just not allowed to do it.

00:31:29.000 They were pushed.

00:31:30.000 A few cases, they were assaulted.

00:31:33.000 In all cases, they were put in a corral.

00:31:37.000 So far away, probably the closest they got is from here to the back of that room.

00:31:43.000 We could do like a... Did you all watch My Cousin Vinny?

00:31:48.000 You know the movie?

00:31:48.000 Okay, and then he did a whole scene from My Cousin Vinny about the two fingers versus the three fingers, and they couldn't see exactly what was going on.

00:31:54.000 Again, that is a voter irregularity, and that is bad, and there should be lawsuits on that basis.

00:31:59.000 Are you going to get the entire state of Pennsylvania their vote tossed?

00:32:03.000 Probably not, right?

00:32:04.000 I mean, the remedy just there is not there legally.

00:32:07.000 Okay, we'll get to Michigan in one second, because there, he makes the most shocking allegation, which is literally that giant busloads of ballots shipped in for Joe Biden were sort of dumped into the vast balloting.

00:32:18.000 Okay, we'll get to that in just one second.

00:32:20.000 Plus, we'll get to Sidney Powell, who made some very significant allegations about Dominion voting systems and suggests that literally millions of votes were shifted from one side to the other.

00:32:32.000 We'll go through that.

00:32:33.000 Evidence there would be necessary.

00:32:35.000 Okay, we're gonna get to that in just one second.

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00:33:56.000 Okay, we're gonna get to more of this press conference.

00:33:58.000 We haven't even gotten to Sidney Powell and her crackin' release in just one second.

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00:36:35.000 Okay, so Rudy then continues the allegations and he talks about, I think, the most shocking allegation.

00:36:46.000 He alleges that there are four people who gave affidavits, four, who say that at 4.30 in the morning, a truck pulled up to a Detroit center where they were counting and just started unloading boxes of ballots marked for Joe Biden.

00:36:57.000 Now, that one seems like that should be fairly easy for the media to check in on, right?

00:37:01.000 I mean, they can read those affidavits, presumably, if those have been filed with the court.

00:37:05.000 Now, that's like a real allegation of voter fraud, right?

00:37:08.000 And there's only one problem.

00:37:09.000 You actually have to file that in a Michigan court.

00:37:11.000 I am not clear on whether the Trump team has actually filed that in a Michigan court.

00:37:15.000 That's a serious, real allegation.

00:37:17.000 You're talking now about JFK, dead people voting in Chicago style stuff from 1960.

00:37:22.000 Here's Giuliani alleging that.

00:37:25.000 Four affiants here, those are people who give affidavits, report an incident that under any other circumstances would have been on the front page of all your newspapers.

00:37:35.000 If it didn't involve the hatred that you have, the irrational, pathological hatred that you have for the president.

00:37:43.000 What they swear to is that at 4.30 in the morning, a truck pulled up to the Detroit center where they were counting ballots.

00:37:53.000 And here's what they jointly swear to.

00:37:57.000 That every ballot that they could see, every thing they could hear, these were ballots for Biden.

00:38:05.000 I didn't see that.

00:38:07.000 I don't know that, but for the fact that three American citizens are willing to swear to it.

00:38:12.000 Okay, well, we need the names of the citizens so we can talk to them.

00:38:14.000 We need to know who exactly was counting ballots at these places, right?

00:38:16.000 I mean, this is stuff that the media should be able to check into, and certainly stuff that should be able to be investigated.

00:38:21.000 I mean, these are actual criminal charges.

00:38:23.000 He's now alleging wide-scale voter fraud.

00:38:25.000 So, good, that's a real allegation, presumably with real names on that, so that is something that can be checked.

00:38:30.000 That at least is a real allegation, and affidavits are in fact evidence.

00:38:33.000 Affidavits are somebody testifying that they saw a thing.

00:38:36.000 It is not just an allegation.

00:38:37.000 At that point, you are swearing under penalty of perjury that you saw a thing.

00:38:41.000 It doesn't mean that all affidavits are true.

00:38:42.000 It does mean that those are allegations that ought to be investigated.

00:38:46.000 So good.

00:38:46.000 Okay, there's only one problem, which is I am not sure that all of those affidavits have actually been filed in an ongoing case in Michigan because the other day, the Trump team, as I mentioned, pulled out of their case in Michigan, Trump versus Benson.

00:38:57.000 And Giuliani said they dismissed it because the case was attempting to get the Wayne County Board of Supervisors to decertify it, and they did.

00:39:03.000 But they didn't, right?

00:39:04.000 I mean, that's the problem, is that they actually voted to certify.

00:39:06.000 Then they came back out and they said, well, we challenge our own certification, but there's no provision in Michigan law to do that.

00:39:10.000 So, herein lies the problem.

00:39:12.000 Again, there's a difference between what Giuliani is alleging on the public stage and what is actually being filed in court.

00:39:16.000 If you want the election changed, it has to be filed in court.

00:39:20.000 It doesn't matter what he says in front of a microphone.

00:39:21.000 It doesn't matter what Giuliani says in front of cameras.

00:39:24.000 It doesn't matter what he says in interviews.

00:39:26.000 It matters what gets filed in court.

00:39:28.000 It matters what gets filed in court.

00:39:29.000 That is all.

00:39:30.000 That is all.

00:39:32.000 Okay, so, File it in court.

00:39:34.000 Again, he's making serious allegations and apparently he's got affidavits to back it.

00:39:37.000 This would be a great time for a lawsuit in Michigan suggesting that all of this needs to be postponed.

00:39:43.000 The certification needs to be postponed until the investigation is completed.

00:39:47.000 Giuliani concluded by saying that somebody had a plan to shift the election.

00:39:52.000 And he sort of concluded with his big wrap up.

00:39:56.000 This would be Giuliani clip 12.

00:40:00.000 Isn't the logical conclusion that I think any jury would accept if they heard this evidence?

00:40:07.000 That somebody had this plan.

00:40:09.000 Maybe that was always the plan.

00:40:11.000 That's the reason why Hillary Clinton said, don't concede, even if you're losing. 0.50

00:40:17.000 That's the reason we had a Freudian slip by the candidate.

00:40:21.000 And he said he had the best voter fraud team in the country.

00:40:26.000 That's the reason why he probably didn't have to go out and campaign.

00:40:30.000 He had to have known what they were going to do.

00:40:33.000 OK, so then Sidney Powell comes up and Sidney Powell, of course, was the lawyer in the Michael Flynn case.

00:40:38.000 She's been well respected.

00:40:40.000 She gets up and she starts talking about the Kraken, right?

00:40:43.000 This is the release the Kraken moment.

00:40:44.000 She's the one who originally started using that phrase that she was going to reveal evidence that literally millions of votes were shifted in the election. 0.96

00:40:50.000 This is the biggest allegation.

00:40:51.000 Giuliani is talking about specific voter fraud and voter irregularity allegations.

00:40:56.000 Some of them have been alleged in court.

00:40:57.000 Others have not been alleged in court.

00:40:58.000 Some he says he has affidavits for.

00:41:00.000 Others he has said he does not have affidavits for.

00:41:03.000 All of that is going to get hashed out in courts.

00:41:05.000 Powell is the one who is making the biggest claim here.

00:41:08.000 So she claims that the voting system of the United States was hacked.

00:41:11.000 That is a massive claim.

00:41:12.000 Not that there's a possibility of hack, but that there was a hack.

00:41:15.000 That in fact the voting systems of the United States were compromised.

00:41:19.000 Which means that you can't trust any election result, right?

00:41:20.000 I mean, not just the presidential election result.

00:41:22.000 Any place that used a Dominion voting system, presumably, would now be in question.

00:41:26.000 And in fact, she actually does say that in this press conference.

00:41:28.000 So here is Sidney Powell laying forth her theory of what happened here with Dominion voting systems and Smartmatic technology.

00:41:36.000 What we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through Venezuela, Cuba, and likely China in the interference with our elections here in the United States.

00:41:55.000 The Dominion voting systems, the Smartmatic technology software, And the software that goes in other computerized voting systems here as well, not just Dominion, were created in Venezuela at the direction of Hugo Chavez to make sure he never lost an election after one constitutional referendum came out the way he did not want it to come out.

00:42:20.000 Okay, so she is essentially saying that Smartmatic and Dominion are the same, that Smartmatic is a subsidiary of Dominion Voting Systems and that Smartmatic was developed in Venezuela, software was developed in Venezuela at the direction of Hugo Chavez, who of course has been dead since 2013, but the idea is that Hugo Chavez's Venezuelan voting system has been sort of taken up into the American voting system and is still significantly vulnerable to hack.

00:42:43.000 She continues along these lines, suggesting that the software itself has backdoors that allow people to hack in and then change votes from one party to the other.

00:42:50.000 These are the sorts of allegations that, if true, completely blow up voting in the country.

00:42:54.000 I mean, that's how large these allegations are.

00:42:56.000 If you are alleging that the Dominion voting system, which is used in 24 states, That Dominion voting system is so, not just that there's a possibility of compromise, but that it was so heavily compromised that millions of votes were shifted.

00:43:08.000 And you're talking about redoing the entire election, essentially.

00:43:11.000 I mean, it's the end.

00:43:13.000 I mean, it's the end of this, of trust in elections, period, in the United States, if what Sidney Powell is saying is true.

00:43:19.000 So here she is explaining what she thinks happened with the software.

00:43:25.000 Now the software itself was created with so many variables and so many back doors that can be hooked up to the internet or a thumb drive stuck in it or whatever, but one of its most characteristic features is its ability to flip votes.

00:43:41.000 It can set and run an algorithm that probably ran all over the country to take a certain percentage of votes from President Trump and flip them to President Biden, which we might never have uncovered had the votes for President Trump not been so overwhelming in so many of these states that it broke the algorithm that had been plugged into the system.

00:44:03.000 And that's what caused them to have to shut down in the states they shut down in.

00:44:08.000 That's when they came in the back door with all the mail-in ballots.

00:44:13.000 Okay, so what she's alleging right now is that there's an algorithm that was used in the software from Dominion and that this algorithm...

00:44:21.000 was designed to create, from whole cloth, votes for Joe Biden to outweigh the votes from Donald Trump.

00:44:28.000 And that Trump's vote was so heavy in a lot of the states where he was doing well early in the night, like Georgia and Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, that the shutdown was not in fact a shutdown.

00:44:38.000 What the shutdown was, was the algorithm shut down the machines.

00:44:41.000 And now all the people came in the back door with all the fake ballots, right?

00:44:44.000 That lines up with what Giuliani is saying about these affidavits suggesting that there were all of these printed out fake ballots for Joe Biden.

00:44:51.000 Which is a pretty sophisticated, but also not supremely hard to evidence conspiracy, right?

00:44:56.000 I mean, if that is true, you should be able to get a hold of one of the Dominion voting system's machines, and you should be able to check for the algorithm.

00:45:02.000 You should be able to identify the algorithm.

00:45:03.000 Also, I'm not sure how an algorithm gets broken.

00:45:05.000 Like, honestly, I'm not a software person, so I don't know if that is a plausible allegation or if that is not a plausible allegation.

00:45:12.000 Powell suggests that these machines were essentially preset, right?

00:45:16.000 She says that they were preset to change the ratio of a Biden vote to a Trump vote.

00:45:20.000 Here she is continuing along these lines.

00:45:24.000 There's an algorithm that runs that automatically flips all the votes and then each operator has the ability to go in, override settings, they can ignore a signature, they can ignore the top line of the ballot, they can go down ballot and select who they want to change the results for.

00:45:46.000 The gentleman who founded Smartmatic, there's video of him on the internet explaining that, yes, at at least one occasion, he admits, they changed a million votes with no problem.

00:45:57.000 Okay, so the basic idea here is that the algorithm was in the computer.

00:46:03.000 It was already being gamed.

00:46:04.000 Trump's vote was overwhelming.

00:46:06.000 It broke the algorithm, and they brought in a bunch of ballots through the back door, and that Smartmatic was once a Venezuelan technology, and so it was designed exactly for this sort of thing. 0.82

00:46:14.000 That is the allegation.

00:46:15.000 That is an extraordinary allegation.

00:46:17.000 That allegation would require extraordinary evidence, because you're talking about the wrecking of the entire American system by Dominion, is what you're talking about right here.

00:46:25.000 Maybe it's true.

00:46:26.000 Seriously.

00:46:26.000 Maybe it is.

00:46:27.000 But you'd actually have to provide some evidence of that.

00:46:29.000 They were asked in this presser, do you actually have, you know, like, access to a Dominion voting system?

00:46:33.000 And they basically said, not really.

00:46:35.000 And then they were asked, you know, do you have evidence of how the algorithm worked?

00:46:37.000 And they said, well, you know, we have, like, people talking about it.

00:46:41.000 Oh, that's fine.

00:46:42.000 If this allegation is real, then investigate it down again.

00:46:46.000 Trust in the American system requires that allegations be investigated down to the root.

00:46:50.000 The allegation is not sufficient to overturn the election, however, and it has to be done in court, right?

00:46:54.000 That's what you have a system for.

00:46:56.000 And so, you know, now is going to be the time for the actual Kraken to be released.

00:47:01.000 So Jenna Ellis came out, right?

00:47:02.000 And she sort of acknowledged that there had not been a lot of evidence presented in this press conference specifically.

00:47:07.000 She says, this is the opening argument.

00:47:09.000 So what you've heard now is basically an opening statement.

00:47:13.000 This is what you can expect to see when we get to court to actually have a full trial on the merits to actually show this evidence in court and prove our case.

00:47:25.000 Okay, that's fine.

00:47:26.000 And I'm hearing a lot of people today saying, you know, you and Tucker Carlson and other people, you keep saying that you want more evidence and the evidence will be shown in court.

00:47:33.000 Okay, that's fine with me.

00:47:34.000 Show the evidence in court, by all means, right?

00:47:36.000 By all means, show the, like, that's what I'm saying.

00:47:37.000 Show the evidence in court.

00:47:39.000 But I'm also getting a lot of people who are saying, well, the fact that the allegations are made, that demonstrates that this election was completely illegitimate, top to bottom.

00:47:46.000 Okay, it's not going to be ruled that way unless this thing actually goes to court.

00:47:49.000 I'm repeating myself a lot here to be extremely clear.

00:47:52.000 On a political level, Nothing would make me happier than for Donald Trump to retain the Oval Office.

00:47:57.000 I voted for him, I supported him.

00:47:59.000 In order for that to happen, all of these allegations are gonna need to be supported in court.

00:48:03.000 And extraordinary allegations like the Venezuelans created a voting system that was then ingested into Dominion, used in 24 states, and then people were literally paying off people in order to game the system, that's gonna require some evidence.

00:48:15.000 Okay, by the way, that's what Sidney Powell suggested.

00:48:17.000 Sidney Powell didn't just suggest that Joe Biden had gamed the system, she suggested that candidates all over America had gamed the system.

00:48:24.000 Right, she actually claimed that Republicans and Democrats, this is clip 21, Republicans and Democrats paid Dominion, this is how Dominion apparently makes its money, is by people taking bribes in Dominion in order for them to be voted for via this corrupt algorithm. 0.63

00:48:42.000 I might speak for just a minute.

00:48:44.000 In terms of the level of corruption we are looking at here, we have no idea how many Republican or Democratic candidates in any state across the country paid to have the system rigged to work for them.

00:48:59.000 These people didn't do this just to take control.

00:49:02.000 They make one heck of a lot of money off of it.

00:49:05.000 Okay, so the suggestion now is that Dominion doesn't make its money off of being paid by states in order to use their voting system.

00:49:11.000 Hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:49:12.000 They make their money off of direct bribes from particular parties.

00:49:15.000 I mean, this is an extraordinary allegation.

00:49:17.000 It's an extraordinary allegation, and it requires extraordinary evidence.

00:49:21.000 It does.

00:49:22.000 Okay, and it is important to note that at this point, you know, Dominion was used in Georgia.

00:49:25.000 The allegations are being made about Dominion.

00:49:28.000 The hand count in Georgia matches the Dominion voter tabulation in Georgia.

00:49:32.000 So you're going to have to explain how that happened.

00:49:34.000 Giuliani's theory is that a bunch of absentee ballots were fraudulently kind of put into the system that matched up directly with the Dominion voting system.

00:49:42.000 So it wasn't really the algorithm that did it, it was the fraudulent ballots that did it.

00:49:46.000 Okay, evidence in any case is going to need to be presented here.

00:49:49.000 As far as Dominion and whether Dominion actually has these sorts of voter fraud backdoor possibilities.

00:49:53.000 Listen, any system can be hacked, but beyond that, the question is whether Dominion actually is just an offshoot of Venezuelan technology.

00:49:59.000 Dominion is actually owned since 2018 by Staple Street Capital, a New York private equity firm, according to the UK Independent.

00:50:06.000 Both Dominion and Smartmatic have released statements saying no ownership relationship exists between the two competing firms.

00:50:11.000 In fact, they are in competition.

00:50:12.000 Smartmatic makes voting machines, so does Dominion.

00:50:14.000 They both make their own voting software.

00:50:16.000 Smartmatic is an international company incorporated in Florida by Venezuelan founders.

00:50:20.000 Dominion does not have any direct ties to Venezuela.

00:50:23.000 They don't have any systematic partnership with Smartmatic.

00:50:26.000 Smartmatic technology was used in Venezuelan elections.

00:50:29.000 Accusations by government opponents that the company rigged elections there were unsubstantiated.

00:50:33.000 In 2017, the company itself, Smartmatic, accused Venezuela's government of electoral fraud.

00:50:38.000 Here's how this all worked.

00:50:39.000 Smartmatic purchased the voting machine company Sequoia Voting Systems in 2005, then sold it two years later after objections were raised over its partnership with a company in which Venezuela's government had invested.

00:50:49.000 And then three years after Smartmatic sold Sequoia, Dominion acquired Sequoia.

00:50:52.000 So the accusation is that Sequoia had a bunch of Venezuelan technology in Sequoia, and then Dominion acquired Sequoia, and so all of the Smartmatic technology supposedly corrupted by the Venezuelans was taken up into Sequoia, and then Dominion acquired Sequoia. 0.61

00:51:07.000 Election security experts say it's difficult to know for certain whether some sequoia code may be used in Dominion's software because of the industry's limited transparency.

00:51:14.000 Both Dominion and Smartmatic say they do not use the same software.

00:51:17.000 Dominion put out a statement on its website.

00:51:18.000 Whether it's true or not, who the hell knows?

00:51:20.000 Dominion has no company ownership relationships with any member of the Pelosi family, the Feinstein family, the Clinton Global Initiative, Smartmatic, CITL, or any ties to Venezuela.

00:51:28.000 Smartmatic also says that they've never owned any shares or had any financial stake in Dominion Voting Systems.

00:51:33.000 Smartmatic has never provided Dominion Voting Systems with any software, hardware, or other technology.

00:51:37.000 The two companies are competitors in the marketplace.

00:51:39.000 Okay, so that is what the companies claim.

00:51:41.000 At the very least, all of this should be susceptible to investigation and will have to be proved in court, obviously.

00:51:47.000 So that is where things currently stand.

00:51:52.000 Okay, so was the Kraken released?

00:51:54.000 Well, it depends on what you mean by Kraken.

00:51:56.000 If the allegations are extraordinary, then yeah.

00:52:00.000 If what you mean is a wave of evidence sufficient to overturn election results, that's only gonna be done in court.

00:52:04.000 It hasn't been done yet.

00:52:06.000 And it is not a sin for people to ask for that evidence to be shown in the court of public opinion before I make up my mind on the veracity of the claims themselves.

00:52:12.000 When you make an extraordinary claim, I require extraordinary evidence.

00:52:15.000 It's just what everybody should do.

00:52:17.000 Okay, so that is where things currently stand.

00:52:19.000 That is a bevy of allegations that have been put forward.

00:52:22.000 The Dominion ones are particularly stunning.

00:52:24.000 If they can be substantiated in any way, then that will undermine not only public confidence in our elections, it will undermine elections that have been held using Dominion systems for the last several years.

00:52:33.000 It would be a disaster area for the country, but of course, more of a disaster area would be moving forward with a fraudulence election if that could be proved.

00:52:40.000 Evidence, evidence, evidence.

00:52:42.000 Now, Tucker Carlson said the same thing last night.

00:52:45.000 Now, we asked on Sidney Powell this week.

00:52:46.000 Sidney Powell did not get back to us on appearing on the show.

00:52:49.000 Tucker apparently also asked on Sidney Powell this week, and he said, Powell needs to show us the evidence.

00:52:54.000 And in fact, when we asked her for the evidence, she got mad and then cut off communications.

00:52:59.000 But she never sent us any evidence, despite a lot of requests.

00:53:02.000 Polite requests. 0.72

00:53:03.000 Not a page.

00:53:04.000 When we kept pressing, she got angry and told us to stop contacting her.

00:53:08.000 When we checked with others around the Trump campaign, people in positions of authority, they told us Powell has never given them any evidence either.

00:53:15.000 Nor did she provide any today at the press conference.

00:53:18.000 Powell did say that electronic voting is dangerous.

00:53:21.000 And she's right.

00:53:21.000 We're with her there.

00:53:23.000 But she never demonstrated that a single actual vote was moved illegitimately by software from one candidate to another.

00:53:30.000 Not one.

00:53:31.000 Okay, and this is correct, right?

00:53:33.000 Tucker's not wrong to request evidence.

00:53:34.000 You're not wrong to request evidence.

00:53:36.000 Everybody should be requesting evidence at this point.

00:53:38.000 And this is what the polls show.

00:53:39.000 Some 46% of Americans say they think that Trump should concede right away, which means 54% of Americans don't agree.

00:53:47.000 And of those 54% of Americans, about 32% of Americans came up with the correct answer to this question, which is, it depends on what the evidence shows.

00:53:55.000 Evidence is the standard.

00:53:57.000 Evidence should always be the standard in every case.

00:54:01.000 For her part, Sidney Powell responded to Tucker by saying, I'm not going to present all the evidence because we're going to do that in court and I'm not busy doing interviews.

00:54:08.000 I mean, she kind of is busy doing interviews, obviously.

00:54:13.000 She came out yesterday and did an interview, I believe with Lou Dobbs, suggesting that the election results in all the swing states should be overturned.

00:54:19.000 Well, if you're going to do an interview suggesting that, then you kind of have to provide the evidence to back that.

00:54:23.000 That's a pretty extraordinary ask.

00:54:24.000 No, I mean, we are talking about millions of votes across the United States, which does matter regardless of whether you're a Democrat or Republican, you should want all the votes counted.

00:54:32.000 Well, yes, Lou, the entire election, frankly, in all the swing states should be overturned and the legislature should make sure that the electors are selected for Trump.

00:54:47.000 And it's going to have to follow the constitutional provisions that it go be decided according to the amendment.

00:54:55.000 Okay.

00:54:56.000 Well, unfortunately, Sidney Powell's team, uh, when it came, she'll do an interview with, with, with Lou Dobbs.

00:55:01.000 She wasn't going to do one with Tucker Carlson and her, her team apparently got very angry at Tucker for suggesting that evidence be presented.

00:55:07.000 Uh, apparently, uh, the, the, In-house counsel for Sidney Powell PC, Molly McCann, responded to Carlson's demand for transparency by saying that he sounded like a spoiled brat.

00:55:18.000 She said the million-dollar question isn't why won't Sidney, who barely has time to sleep or eat, text Tucker the evidence he wants.

00:55:23.000 The question is why won't Tucker text her and say, whenever you are ready and if you choose, my platform is at your disposal to present your case to the nation.

00:55:28.000 Until then, good luck in the fight.

00:55:30.000 Okay, but he actually said that on his show.

00:55:32.000 He literally said, I will offer you the full week to take over my show and present the evidence.

00:55:36.000 So, that's not on Tucker.

00:55:38.000 That's not on Tucker.

00:55:40.000 Okay, so that is... present the evidence.

00:55:43.000 It's not crazy to say that.

00:55:45.000 Joni Ernst, the senator from Iowa, she was commenting on Powell's comment, right?

00:55:50.000 Powell's most outrageous comment was that candidates, Republican and Democrat, all over the United States are paying Dominion voting systems in order to rig elections, which is an extraordinary claim, again.

00:55:59.000 And Joni Ernst was like, that's kind of crazy.

00:56:01.000 I mean, you shouldn't be claiming that candidates are rigging elections all over the place willy-nilly.

00:56:06.000 I mean, my goodness.

00:56:08.000 Senator, I mean, did you or any of your Republican colleagues in the Senate pay to have their elections rigged?

00:56:15.000 No, and that is an offensive comment.

00:56:19.000 For those of us that do stand up and represent our states in a dignified manner, we believe in honesty, we believe in the integrity of our election system.

00:56:33.000 Okay, so again, for the one millionth time, Big allegations require big evidence.

00:56:40.000 End of story.

00:56:41.000 If that evidence is not provided, it's going to be very hard for anything to be proved or for allegations that are very large to be taken seriously.

00:56:48.000 In 2004, Democrats claimed that Diebold voting machines had been hacked.

00:56:51.000 They could not provide any evidence of the Diebold voting machines having been hacked, and so we rightly said we're not going to pay any attention to that.

00:56:57.000 Now, we're going to need evidence that this happened because this is the biggest voting scandal in the history of the United States, bar none, if what Sidney Powell is saying is true.

00:57:05.000 And the same thing is true if Rudy Giuliani's claims are true.

00:57:09.000 And now, yesterday, this all culminated in media members doing what media members do.

00:57:13.000 So instead of saying, okay, we'd like to see the evidence.

00:57:15.000 Can we see the evidence?

00:57:16.000 Instead of saying, let's let the process play out, which is what I'm saying, it's what Tucker's saying, we're all saying the same thing.

00:57:20.000 Everyone's saying this.

00:57:21.000 Instead of that, your mainstream media members decided it's time to yell at people, right?

00:57:24.000 That's really what's important.

00:57:25.000 So Mike Pence was doing a presser on COVID-19, which by the way, some good news, Pfizer has now requested emergency authorization to start distributing its vaccine by the end of this month, which is actually real good news.

00:57:35.000 So Pence does a presser.

00:57:37.000 And the media members lose their bleep, right?

00:57:39.000 As Pence is walking off, it just shows you what journalism has basically become, which is performative nonsense for the cameras.

00:57:45.000 So Pence didn't take questions.

00:57:46.000 He's walking off and media members just start shouting at the top of their lungs at him.

00:57:50.000 And they know he's leaving, right?

00:57:51.000 He's not turning around.

00:57:52.000 He's not answering the questions.

00:57:53.000 It's just if I'm caught on camera shouting at him, then I get my scene in the movie to be made about the evils of the Trump administration backlit and with an upshot.

00:58:02.000 To show my heroism.

00:58:03.000 Here are media members just yelling at Mike Pence randomly about what's going on with the election.

00:58:07.000 Thank you.

00:58:08.000 All right.

00:58:09.000 So are you really?

00:58:10.000 All of you need to answer.

00:58:11.000 What is going on?

00:58:12.000 You're not working with the Trump administration.

00:58:13.000 You're all part of not recognizing democracy.

00:58:14.000 You're all undermining the Democratic election.

00:58:15.000 Every one of you.

00:58:16.000 Why is this?

00:58:17.000 So is that like a good thing?

00:58:17.000 And you won't work with the transaction.

00:58:35.000 Honestly, there is another point to be made here in all of this, regardless of what the allegations end up being or what evidence it ends up showing.

00:58:42.000 There is a systemic distrust of the system that is now set in.

00:58:47.000 For tens of millions of Americans.

00:58:49.000 Tens of millions of them.

00:58:50.000 Who say that they don't trust election outcomes.

00:58:52.000 This is true right and left.

00:58:53.000 They don't know who to trust when it comes to this stuff because it seems like nobody is telling them the truth.

00:58:58.000 And that is because they believe that everybody is badly motivated.

00:59:00.000 And in a lot of cases, they are right.

00:59:02.000 Now, when Trump supporters look at the journalistic entities who are saying, just dismissing out of hand Giuliani's claims or Powell's claims, When they see that, and these people are not saying, okay, we need to see the evidence, they're just immediately dismissing it.

00:59:14.000 Or when they say voter fraud has never happened anywhere.

00:59:17.000 Or when they say that the polls are absolutely correct.

00:59:19.000 Or when they say it's clear that Russian collusion happened.

00:59:21.000 Trump voters are going to respond by saying, we're not going to listen to anything that you have to say.

00:59:26.000 Scorn does breed retaliatory scorn and distrust.

00:59:29.000 That is just the way that human beings behave and there's a reason for that.

00:59:33.000 So it does make a difference.

00:59:34.000 It does make a difference when you have columns like one from Wajahat Ali in the New York Times suggesting that reaching out to Trump supporters is a bad idea.

00:59:42.000 He has an entire article in the New York Times yesterday in which he talks about how he, after 2016, decided he was going to travel the country and talk to Trump supporters. 0.92

00:59:49.000 But his entire article is about how he went around, he talked to Trump supporters, and they didn't change their minds, and therefore they are bad and terrible and horrible and racist.

00:59:57.000 He says this, in Ohio, I spent 90 minutes on a drive to the airport with a retired Trump supporter.

01:00:01.000 We were cordial to each other. We made jokes. We shared stories about our families.

01:00:04.000 Neither of us changed our outlook. They'll never take my guns ever, he told me, explaining his Facebook feed was filled with articles about how Hillary Clinton and Democrats would kill the Second Amendment and steal his guns. Although he didn't like some of Mr. Trump's tones and comments, he didn't believe he was a racist in his heart. I'm not a cardiologist, so I wasn't qualified to challenge that. He says, I did my part.

01:00:23.000 What was my reward?

01:00:24.000 Listening to Mr. Trump's base chant.

01:00:25.000 Send her back. 1.00

01:00:27.000 We cannot help people who refuse to help themselves.

01:00:29.000 Mr. Trump is an extension of their id, their culture, their values, their greed.

01:00:32.000 He is their defender and savior.

01:00:34.000 He is their blunt instrument.

01:00:35.000 He is their destructive drug of choice.

01:00:37.000 The truest thing Trump has ever said is they don't hate him.

01:00:40.000 They don't hate you because they hate him.

01:00:42.000 They hate him because they hate you.

01:00:44.000 And so people respond to the media simply dismissing all claims out of hand with regard to Trump and the election.

01:00:50.000 They regard that as just an extension of the media's scorn for them.

01:00:54.000 And honestly, it's hard to blame people for that.

01:00:56.000 It may not be correct, but it's certainly justifiable.

01:00:59.000 I mean, when you see the way that Democrats on Twitter react to Trump supporters, it's insane.

01:01:06.000 For example, California Democratic Regional Director tweeted out this.

01:01:09.000 No, seriously, how do you deprogram 75 million people?

01:01:12.000 Where do you start?

01:01:13.000 Fox?

01:01:14.000 We have to start thinking in terms of post-World War II Germany or Japan, or the failures of Reconstruction in the South.

01:01:14.000 Facebook?

01:01:21.000 That's crazy.

01:01:22.000 He says this is not your standard partisan policy disagreement.

01:01:25.000 This is a conspiracy theory fueled belligerent death cult against reality and basic decency.

01:01:29.000 The only actual policy debate of note are happening within the Democratic coalition between the left and the center left.

01:01:34.000 This is what Democrats think of you.

01:01:37.000 He says, I know conservatives are upset by some of the responses here, and yeah, many are out of line.

01:01:40.000 But what do you expect people to do in self-preservation?

01:01:42.000 The right has been running four years on bleep your feelings, my conspiracy theories are valid opinions, and we have more guns.

01:01:48.000 Well, no.

01:01:49.000 The right has been acknowledging that the left has cultural scorn for them.

01:01:53.000 And that is going to breed retaliatory scorn.

01:01:56.000 It's going to breed a level of distrust that is endemic to the system. 0.95

01:01:59.000 And every time you tweet crap like this, you are creating more distrust in the systems that are required. 0.86

01:02:05.000 When you declare that Barack Obama is the arbiter of truth, and then everybody says, okay, well, I don't trust you anymore. 0.97

01:02:10.000 What do you think is going to happen?

01:02:12.000 Joyce Carol Oates, who is another writer, famous writer.

01:02:16.000 And a far lefty who tweets out pictures of her weird feet. 0.55

01:02:19.000 That is a thing.

01:02:20.000 She tweeted out the other day, for many pro-Trump Americans, and she bleeps out Trump because it's a bad word, for many pro-Trump Americans, the pandemic is like the Holocaust to many Germans.

01:02:30.000 They knew what was happening but adjusted to living with it in indifference or in some cases profiting from it.

01:02:34.000 Only if affected personally do people seem to care.

01:02:37.000 So if you are a Trump supporter, And you are disagreeing with Joyce Carol Oates on COVID response.

01:02:43.000 It's because you're like a German ignoring the Holocaust. 1.00

01:02:46.000 And then we're expected to trust these people?

01:02:48.000 We're expected to trust that they have a good-hearted search for truth at heart?

01:02:52.000 I think not.

01:02:53.000 I think not.

01:02:54.000 That is what is driving a lot of this.

01:02:57.000 I've been saying on a wide variety of issues, there should be bipartisan agreement on how we handle a lot of these issues.

01:03:02.000 When it comes to voter fraud, evidence.

01:03:04.000 Evidence of voter fraud.

01:03:04.000 When it comes to COVID policy, Follow the evidence.

01:03:07.000 Don't make it up.

01:03:08.000 Don't follow political incentives.

01:03:09.000 Follow the evidence.

01:03:10.000 When it comes to racism in America, follow the evidence.

01:03:13.000 It's all the same standard.

01:03:15.000 But when people pretend that they are arbiters of truth, and they only examine evidence in cases they want to examine evidence, and then they sneer at people who disagree with them, the predictable result is that people are going to react by disregarding everything they have to say, and saying, okay, you didn't require evidence for Stacey Abrams.

01:03:29.000 You didn't require evidence for four years of Russian collusion bullcrappery.

01:03:33.000 You didn't require five minutes of explanation of evidence for that sort of stuff, and we were put through four years of that, and now you expect me to respect your demands for evidence?

01:03:42.000 I think not.

01:03:43.000 Either there's going to be one standard, or there's going to be no standard.

01:03:45.000 There is not going to be a double standard for most Americans.

01:03:49.000 Either evidence is required for claims, or evidence is not required for claims.

01:03:52.000 So, pick a side.

01:03:53.000 Are you on the evidence side, or are you on the not evidence side?

01:03:56.000 That is the real question, and that's true for everything.

01:03:58.000 It's true for everything, from COVID policy, to election fraud, Okay.

01:04:02.000 Well, before we break for the weekend, it's time for a little bit of Bible talk, because let's have some uplift going into the weekend.

01:04:08.000 Okay, well before we break for the weekend, it's time for a little bit of Bible talk, because let's have some uplift going into the weekend.

01:04:16.000 So this week, the Jews read a portion of the five books of Moses called Todok.

01:04:20.000 This is the portion of the Bible that deals with the selling of the birthright from Esau to Jacob and also the blessing that Isaac gives to Jacob instead of Esau, the so-called stealing of the birthright in sort of common biblical parlance.

01:04:34.000 And so for folks who don't know the story, Basically, Isaac, who of course is Abraham's son, he now has kids, and he has twins.

01:04:42.000 Esau, Esau, and Jacob.

01:04:45.000 And Esau is sort of a man of the fields, he's a wild man, he's a hunter.

01:04:50.000 He's not a man of soul.

01:04:51.000 Jacob is a man of soul who is described as dwelling in tents.

01:04:57.000 Esau and Jacob sort of battle for primacy.

01:05:00.000 That's sort of the rest of the book of Genesis, is them battling for primacy in various ways.

01:05:05.000 Esau is the firstborn.

01:05:06.000 Jacob grabs onto his heel, right?

01:05:08.000 That is why he's called Yaakov, because the word Ekev in Hebrew means heel. 0.93

01:05:12.000 He grabs onto Esau's heel.

01:05:15.000 And so, now they grow up.

01:05:18.000 As they get older, it becomes very clear that Esau spurns the birthright.

01:05:21.000 He doesn't actually want the responsibilities of being the firstborn.

01:05:23.000 And so, for literally a bowl of lentil soup, he sells his birthright to Jacob.

01:05:28.000 What that really means is that, for any rationale whatsoever, he was willing to give away the responsibility of being the firstborn.

01:05:34.000 But Isaac has not greenlit this, right?

01:05:36.000 Their father has not actually greenlit this switcheroo.

01:05:39.000 And Esau, it turns out, actually, he kind of spurns it, but at the same time, he still wants the benefits of the birthright without actually the responsibilities of the birthright.

01:05:46.000 So this brings us to the critical scene in question, one of the most sort of puzzling parts of the Bible.

01:05:52.000 So this is Genesis chapter 27.

01:05:55.000 It came to pass when Isaac was old, and his eyes were too dim to see, that he called Esau his elder son, and he said to him, my son, and he said to him, here I am.

01:06:01.000 And he said, behold, now I have grown old, I do not know the day of my death.

01:06:04.000 So now sharpen your implements, your sword and your bow, and go forth to the field and hunt game for me, and make for me tasty foods as I like, and bring them to me, and I will eat in order that my soul will bless you before I die.

01:06:14.000 But Rebekah, who is Isaac's wife, overheard when Isaac spoke to Esau his son, and Esau went to the field to hunt game and to bring it.

01:06:20.000 And Rebecca said to Jacob her son, saying, Behold, I have heard your father speaking to Esau your brother, saying, Bring me game, and make me tasty foods, and I will eat, and I will bless you before the Lord before my death.

01:06:29.000 And now my son hearkens to my voice, to what I am commanding you.

01:06:32.000 Go now to the flock, take for me from there two choice kids, I will make them tasty foods for your father as he likes, and you shall bring them to your father that he may eat, in order that he bless you before his death.

01:06:43.000 And Jacob said to Rebekah, his mother, Behold, my brother Esau is a hairy man, whereas I am a smooth man.

01:06:47.000 Perhaps my father will touch me, and I will appear to him as a deceiver, and I will bring upon myself a curse and not a blessing.

01:06:52.000 And his mother said to him, On me is your curse, my son.

01:06:55.000 Only hearken to my voice, and go, take them for me.

01:06:57.000 So he went, and he took, and he brought them to his mother.

01:06:59.000 And his mother made tasty foods, as his father liked.

01:07:01.000 And Rebekah took the costly garments of Esau, her elder son, which were with her in the house, and she dressed Jacob, her younger son.

01:07:07.000 And the hides of the kids she put on his hands and on the smoothness of his neck, right?

01:07:10.000 So she actually takes hair and puts it on Jacob, so that he feels more like his older brother.

01:07:15.000 He came to his father and he said, my father, and he said, here I am.

01:07:17.000 Who are you, my son?

01:07:18.000 And Jacob said to his father, I'm Esau, your firstborn.

01:07:20.000 I have done as you have spoken to me.

01:07:22.000 Please rise, sit down, eat of my games that your soul will bless me.

01:07:25.000 And Isaac said to my son, how is it that you have found it so quickly, my son?

01:07:28.000 And he said, because the Lord your God prepared it for me.

01:07:30.000 And Isaac said to Jacob, please come closer so that I may feel you, my son, whether you are really my son Esau or not.

01:07:35.000 So obviously Isaac suspects something at this point.

01:07:37.000 Jacob draws near to Isaac, his father.

01:07:39.000 He said, the voice is the voice of Jacob, but the hands are the hands of Esau.

01:07:39.000 He felt him.

01:07:43.000 Right?

01:07:43.000 Hakol kol Yaakov, hei daimidei Esau.

01:07:46.000 In the Hebrew.

01:07:46.000 Right?

01:07:47.000 And he didn't recognize him because his hands were hairy, like the hands of his brother Esau, and he blessed him.

01:07:51.000 And he says again, are you indeed my son Esau?

01:07:53.000 And he said, I am.

01:07:54.000 And he said, serve it to me, I may eat of the game of my son, so my soul will bless you.

01:07:57.000 He served him, he ate, he brought him wine, and he drank.

01:07:59.000 And his father said, come closer and kiss me, right?

01:08:01.000 He's constantly like, something, Isaac knows something is up, right?

01:08:04.000 He's losing his sight, but he knows something is up.

01:08:05.000 He came closer, he kissed him, he smelled like the fragrance of his garments.

01:08:08.000 He blessed him, he said, behold, the fragrance of my son is like the fragrance of a field, which the Lord has blessed.

01:08:14.000 Okay, and then the story continues with Jacob receiving the blessing, and Esau returns.

01:08:19.000 And when Esau returns, he explains to Isaac what has happened, and Isaac shudders, and he says, When Esau heard his father's words, he cried out a great and bitter cry.

01:08:27.000 it to me and I ate of everything while you had not yet come and I blessed him he too shall be blessed. When Esau heard his father's words he cried out a great and bitter cry said his father blessed me too oh my father he said your brother came with cunning and took your blessing and and so he doesn't reverse the So it's a really puzzling story, right?

01:08:43.000 Because why wouldn't he reverse the blessing?

01:08:45.000 If I give you a gift, but I do so under the false premise that you are another person, I can take that gift back.

01:08:52.000 As it turns out, the Bible makes it sound like Isaac's on his deathbed.

01:08:55.000 Isaac in the Bible lives like another two decades.

01:08:57.000 At no point does he reverse his judgment and actually remove the blessing from Jacob, who lied to him, and give it back to Esau, who did not lie to him.

01:09:04.000 So what exactly is going on here?

01:09:06.000 So the answer, I think, lies in the characters of Esau and Jacob, and it lies in what we should strive for as human beings.

01:09:12.000 So Esau is described in the Bible, again, as a ruddy man, which means man of violence.

01:09:17.000 He's described as a person who is very capable in the fields, right?

01:09:22.000 He can use a sword and he can use a bow.

01:09:24.000 But he is not a person who is described as anything but sort of selfish.

01:09:28.000 He respects his parents somewhat, but that's pretty much his big quality.

01:09:31.000 And so he's a man who is capable of survival, but he is not a moral man.

01:09:35.000 Jacob, by contrast, is a moral man, but he's sort of perceived as soft.

01:09:39.000 He's not a survivor.

01:09:40.000 He's not somebody who can survive.

01:09:41.000 And so Isaac has a choice to make, because he is now going to hand on his birthright, which means the future of the Hebrews, the future of the Jewish people, and in his view of his family and his civilization.

01:09:50.000 Who's he going to hand that birthright to, to preserve the civilization?

01:09:53.000 The survivor without morality, or the moral man without a survival instinct?

01:09:57.000 That's the real question.

01:09:59.000 So what happens, he tells Esau, I want you, you're the survivor.

01:10:03.000 I think you can learn morality.

01:10:04.000 Go out to the field, do something for me.

01:10:06.000 Instead of just killing an animal and then eating it yourself or killing an animal for fun, go do something that demonstrates honor for a parent and then I will bless you because you will have merited the blessing because you're both a person capable of survival and you're a person who's capable of higher moral thinking.

01:10:22.000 And Rebecca, his wife, hears this, and she says, well, I don't think that's right.

01:10:26.000 I mean, I know Esau, I know Jacob, I know Esau is not a moral man, and I don't think he's going to develop a moral instinct.

01:10:31.000 But I do think that Jacob is capable of developing a survival instinct.

01:10:36.000 And so Jacob dons his brother's clothes, he puts on the hair on his hands and on his neck, and he goes and he meets with Isaac.

01:10:44.000 And Isaac knows something is wrong, right?

01:10:46.000 that sentence where he says, ha-kol kol Yaakov, right?

01:10:48.000 The voice is the voice of Jacob, but the hands are the hands of Esau.

01:10:53.000 And he suspects that something is up.

01:10:56.000 He's saying, it doesn't matter which one of my sons this is, right?

01:10:59.000 This is actually, as it turns out, what is happening.

01:11:01.000 It doesn't matter which one of my sons I'm blessing.

01:11:03.000 This is the son who deserves the blessing because either this is Esau who has grown a soul, or this is Jacob who's grown a spine.

01:11:09.000 This is either Esau who's determined how to become a moral person because he's speaking in respectful ways to me and he's doing what I wanted him to do, or this is Jacob who has actually become a survivor, right?

01:11:20.000 He's capable of doing the things necessary for survival in a cruel and unjust world.

01:11:26.000 And so he decides that the future of his family line is better placed in the hands of the person who actually did all the things that were needed to be done.

01:11:36.000 And that's why he doesn't reverse the blessing, even though he realizes what has happened at that point, right?

01:11:40.000 His eyes are open and he realizes what has happened.

01:11:44.000 He wanted it to be Esau.

01:11:46.000 Esau is his firstborn.

01:11:48.000 But Esau had already given away the birthright once because he actually didn't want the responsibility.

01:11:51.000 Jacob wanted the responsibility and Jacob was willing to do what it took in order to gain that responsibility, including an act of deception in order to demonstrate to his father that he was in fact capable of survival.

01:12:03.000 And that's what it takes to live in the world.

01:12:04.000 It does.

01:12:04.000 It doesn't mean that you have to act deceptively when you don't have to.

01:12:07.000 It does mean that you need to be able to survive.

01:12:09.000 You need to be able to act aggressively.

01:12:10.000 You need to be able to act in defense of your own family and of your own values.

01:12:14.000 But you have to have the values too.

01:12:16.000 And it is easier to grow an aggressive streak from a moral center than it is to grow a moral streak from an aggressive center.

01:12:22.000 That's the message of the selling of the birthright as well as the blessing that is given by Isaac to Jacob rather than to Esau.

01:12:29.000 It's why Isaac doesn't revoke his own blessing.

01:12:31.000 Alrighty, we'll be back here next week with much more.

01:12:34.000 We'll give you all the updates.

01:12:35.000 If the Kraken, the evidentiary Kraken is released, not just the allegations Kraken, the evidentiary Kraken is released, we'll bring you all of it next week.

01:12:43.000 Have a wonderful weekend.

01:12:44.000 Stay safe out there.

01:12:45.000 This is The Ben Shapiro Show.

01:12:51.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is produced by Colton Haas.

01:12:53.000 Executive Producer Jeremy Boren.

01:12:55.000 Our Supervising Producers are Mathis Glover and Robert Sterling.

01:12:58.000 Production Manager Pavel Lydowsky.

01:13:00.000 Our Associate Producers are Nick Sheehan and Rebecca Doyle.

01:13:03.000 The show is edited by Adam Siavitz.

01:13:05.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Koromina.

01:13:07.000 Hair and Makeup is by Nika Geneva.

01:13:09.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is a Daily Wire production.

01:13:11.000 Copyright Daily Wire 2020.

01:13:13.000 You know, the Matt Wall Show, it's not just another show about politics.

01:13:17.000 I think there are enough of those already out there.

01:13:19.000 We talk about culture, because culture drives politics, and it drives everything else.

01:13:24.000 So my main focuses are life, family, faith.

01:13:28.000 Those are fundamental, and that's what this show is about.

The Ben Shapiro Show - November 20, 2020

The Kraken | Ep. 1142

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