The Ben Shapiro Show - The Moving Lockdown Goalposts | Ep. 1001

00:00:00.000 The economy contracts in record fashion as the media slam Republican governors, the FBI is in real trouble over Michael Flynn, and momentum builds against Joe Biden's response to a sexual assault allegation.

00:00:10.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

00:00:10.000 This is The Ben Shapiro Show.

00:00:11.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is sponsored by ExpressVPN.com.

00:00:20.000 Don't like the government spying on you?

00:00:22.000 Well, visit expressvpn.com slash Ben to stay anonymous. 1.00

00:00:25.000 Well, everything is stupid. 0.99

00:00:27.000 You may have noticed this. 1.00

00:00:27.000 Like all the things, they are all stupid because we're not allowed to make risk reward calculations and we're apparently not supposed to discuss how public policy is actually made. 1.00

00:00:35.000 We're just supposed to pretend that public policy has no trade-offs and that the smartest people in the world don't make trade-offs at all. 0.99

00:00:41.000 In fact, there's good and there's evil in politics and there's nothing in between.

00:00:44.000 There is no Sort of attempt to create metrics of success.

00:00:48.000 All of this just doesn't exist is at least according to many in our media. 0.85

00:00:52.000 We'll get to that in just a little bit because truthfully this is we live in an extraordinarily stupid timeline and in a time when people need to make serious decisions about how public policy is made. 0.95

00:01:02.000 We don't need the stupidest among us actually making those decisions and or shouting at the moon that those who make the decisions on the basis of competing values and competing interests and competing metrics, that those people are very bad for taking into account various values. 0.97

00:01:14.000 We'll get to that in just a little bit. 0.99

00:01:16.000 First, a little bit of good news.

00:01:18.000 Let's start with some good news today.

00:01:19.000 I know, there is some.

00:01:21.000 Scientists on Wednesday announced the first effective treatment against coronavirus, an experimental drug that can speed the recovery of COVID-19 patients.

00:01:28.000 It's a major medical advance that came as the economic gloom caused by the scourge deepened in the United States and Europe.

00:01:33.000 This is according to the Associated Press.

00:01:34.000 The US government said it is working to make the antiviral medication remdesivir available to patients as quickly as possible.

00:01:40.000 Dr. Anthony Fauci suggested that this will be the standard of care.

00:01:45.000 Here was Dr. Fauci yesterday talking up remdesivir.

00:01:48.000 The data shows that remdesivir has a clear-cut, significant, positive effect in diminishing the time to recovery.

00:01:59.000 This is really quite important for a number of reasons.

00:02:02.000 Although a 31% improvement doesn't seem like a knockout 100%, it is a very important proof of concept.

00:02:11.000 Because what it has proven is that a drug can block this virus.

00:02:17.000 So that is good news.

00:02:18.000 The stock market continued to rise on that basis.

00:02:21.000 Now, in the meantime, the economic data that came out yesterday was absolutely terrible.

00:02:24.000 The economy shrank at an annual rate of 4.8% in the January to March period, but that's really even before the shutdowns are taken into account.

00:02:31.000 Everybody's expecting that the actual annualized rate of GDP shrinkage In the second quarter is going to be about 40%, which is going to be by far the largest shrinkage in the history of the United States in economic terms.

00:02:42.000 We're supposed to pretend, by the way, that those countervailing interests don't exist for purposes of many in public policy.

00:02:46.000 We're supposed to pretend that there are no... that really the only thing that we ought to be worried about at this point is the sheer numbers of lives lost in the short term, not even in the long term.

00:02:54.000 We're just supposed to pretend that if we lock down forever, everything is going to be fine.

00:02:57.000 And we're not supposed to take into account the 30 million people who are unemployed today.

00:03:00.000 There was a new report today.

00:03:02.000 3.8 million more Americans are now on the unemployment lines.

00:03:06.000 Meanwhile, I promised good news.

00:03:08.000 Here's some more good news.

00:03:09.000 Children may not pass COVID-19 to adults.

00:03:12.000 Now, this would be a game changer.

00:03:13.000 It really would be huge.

00:03:14.000 It means you can reopen the schools.

00:03:16.000 Really.

00:03:16.000 I mean, first of all, that means that one of my worries, like on a personal level, I am concerned about protecting people who are older.

00:03:22.000 Proof of concept.

00:03:23.000 I'm sheltered at home right now, not because I'm not young and healthy.

00:03:26.000 I'm in an essential industry.

00:03:27.000 I couldn't be going to work today.

00:03:29.000 The reason that I'm not going to work today is because my parents are with us.

00:03:32.000 They're sheltering with us.

00:03:33.000 They're providing childcare.

00:03:35.000 We're helping them.

00:03:36.000 We're going and getting them groceries.

00:03:37.000 My parents are in their mid-60s, which means that they are in the higher zone of danger for COVID-19.

00:03:43.000 And so one of my assumptions has been that we should lock down with them and that when my kids go back to school, I'm basically going to have to tell my parents that they need to shelter at home instead of being over at our house all the time.

00:03:52.000 Right now, thank God my parents are spectacular human beings, and they're here morning till night.

00:03:56.000 I mean, they show up at like 7 a.m.

00:03:57.000 so that I can come do the show, and then they leave at 7 p.m.

00:04:00.000 So they can help provide childcare all day long.

00:04:02.000 Well, my assumption has been that when my kids go back to school, I'm going to have to send my parents home and tell them that they can't come over until there's some sort of vaccine developed effectively in order to protect them.

00:04:12.000 Well, this new report would really change the game on that.

00:04:15.000 According to Bloomberg, children contract the coronavirus less often and with less severity than the general population.

00:04:20.000 There's limited evidence so far that children pass the disease to others in significant numbers, according to a new report.

00:04:25.000 Many infected children may stay asymptomatic.

00:04:28.000 Cases of them becoming critically ill with COVID-19 remain rare, according to an analysis of global virus studies compiled by Don't Forget the Bubble's Pediatric Blog among these studies' findings.

00:04:38.000 are that a China World Health Organization joint commission couldn't find a single case of a child passing the virus to an adult.

00:04:45.000 Not one.

00:04:46.000 Which means, guys, shutting down the schools was almost literally the worst idea you could have. 1.00

00:04:50.000 It was a really, really stupid idea. 0.98

00:04:51.000 If it turns out that kids cannot pass this to adults, then why exactly should we not be allowing kids to congregate with one another? 1.00

00:04:58.000 And speaking as a parent, let me just tell you, I'm happy to have my kids home.

00:05:03.000 I'm happy to participate in the homeschooling movement, as we are all forced to do right now.

00:05:07.000 But I know parents out there who have kids who have conditions.

00:05:13.000 Parents who have kids who suffer from, for example, They're on the autism spectrum, and they've seen tremendous regressions in terms of the kids' behavior simply because when you radically shift childhood environment, then it tends to radically shift childhood behavior.

00:05:26.000 There are serious consequences to sending kids home from school on the kids, on the parents, on the economy, on everything else.

00:05:33.000 According to this Bloomberg report, low case rates among children maybe do more to higher numbers remaining asymptomatic rather than a lower infection rate.

00:05:39.000 So they're still getting infected.

00:05:40.000 They're just asymptomatic.

00:05:41.000 It's not affecting them the same way.

00:05:42.000 Analysis of Chinese data in confirmed and suspected cases show that 32% of affected children aged 6 to 10 years were asymptomatic.

00:05:50.000 Precise details regarding pediatric transmission remains unclear.

00:05:53.000 To date, only a handful of coronavirus deaths have been reported in children.

00:05:57.000 Very few newborns or infants contract COVID-19.

00:05:59.000 Generally, they do very well in overcoming the virus.

00:06:01.000 The big change there, we know all that before, the big change there is that they couldn't find a single case of a child passing the virus to an adult.

00:06:07.000 Which, frankly, would come as a major relief to me.

00:06:10.000 It means that I may have to continue socially distancing from other adults, which I was planning on doing anyway.

00:06:15.000 But it would mean that I can send my kids back to school and I don't have to send my parents home at the same time.

00:06:18.000 So that would be, on a personal level, a big relief to me.

00:06:22.000 Meanwhile, the search for a vaccine continues and has been radically accelerated by the Trump administration.

00:06:27.000 We'll get to that in just one moment.

00:06:28.000 First, let's talk about the fact that these days you really want to know who is at your door.

00:06:32.000 If you live in a big city, your mayor probably let everybody out of jail.

00:06:34.000 That's what happened in New York.

00:06:35.000 It's happening in Los Angeles.

00:06:37.000 You're starting to see crimes against businesses go up.

00:06:38.000 You want to know who's at your front door.

00:06:40.000 Also, if you got kids on your premises, you want to be able to keep track of your kids at all times.

00:06:44.000 This is where Ring.com comes in.

00:06:46.000 We are home more than usual these days, but it's still hard to keep a close eye on things.

00:06:50.000 More deliveries mean more boxes left unattended, and that means more people possibly stealing your boxes from your front stoop.

00:06:56.000 A lot can happen outside your front door.

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00:07:46.000 Okay, in other good news.

00:07:48.000 The Trump administration has launched what they call Operation Warp Speed, aiming to rush forward with a coronavirus vaccine.

00:07:54.000 We've already seen from Oxford University some promising new studies suggesting that they may have created a vaccine that could be effective against COVID-19.

00:08:02.000 And theoretically, if they rush this thing forward, they could have millions of doses available in September, which of course would be a radical game changer.

00:08:08.000 If that happened, then pretty much all of the restrictions go away.

00:08:11.000 I mean, at that point, you've done as much as you can do.

00:08:13.000 Once you've either reached herd immunity, or you've vaccinated enough people that you have herd immunity, then You can't do any more than that.

00:08:20.000 Whoever's gonna get infected at that point is gonna get infected.

00:08:22.000 Whoever's gonna die of this is going to die of this because you literally cannot do any better than that.

00:08:27.000 Unless you come up with some better therapeutic treatments also, but I mean, that's just true of any disease.

00:08:31.000 The Trump administration, according to Bloomberg, is organizing a Manhattan Project-style effort to drastically cut the time needed to develop a coronavirus vaccine with the goal of making enough doses for most Americans by year-end.

00:08:41.000 Called Operation Warp Speed, the program will pull together private pharmaceutical companies, government agencies, and the military Good.

00:08:47.000 cut the development time for a vaccine by as much as eight months, according to two people familiar with the matter.

00:08:47.000 I mean, good.

00:08:47.000 Really.

00:08:52.000 As part of the arrangement, taxpayers will shoulder much of the financial risk that vaccine candidates may fail instead of drug companies.

00:08:58.000 So what they're trying to do is relieve liability on vaccine companies and pharmaceutical companies for developing the vaccine in order so they can move forward faster.

00:09:06.000 Good.

00:09:07.000 I mean, good, really, because if you're talking about comparative costs taxpayers have to shoulder, $7 trillion is a very large comparative I can guarantee you, whatever liability arises from the attempts to develop a vaccine, they ain't gonna compare to the $7 trillion we shoveled out the door in the last five weeks alone.

00:09:24.000 So yes, we should be covering the liability in order to ensure that both people who are hurt get compensated, and also to ensure that we can get this vaccine available so that people can actually get back to work, go back to ballgames, we can all go back to our normal daily lives.

00:09:38.000 Last month, Trump directed Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar to speed development of a vaccine.

00:09:42.000 Administration officials have been meeting on the effort for three to four weeks, according to one of the people involved.

00:09:47.000 A meeting on the project was scheduled at the White House on Wednesday.

00:09:51.000 This does not come without criticism, naturally.

00:09:54.000 There are quote-unquote experts who are very upset about this, apparently, suggesting that the rush to a vaccine is risky.

00:10:02.000 According to these experts, the New York Times suggests, they warn that rushing the process could undermine the treatment's effectiveness and even lead to sickness or death.

00:10:11.000 Well, as opposed to COVID-19?

00:10:12.000 As opposed to just like continuing along with this whole thing that has killed 61,000 Americans in the last four weeks alone?

00:10:18.000 Yeah, if we're gonna rush something, it feels like rushing the vaccine might be a useful thing.

00:10:24.000 So that is good news as well.

00:10:26.000 Also, especially because we all know that there is going to be a second wave.

00:10:30.000 And this is where We have to start getting serious about how we discuss public policy in this country.

00:10:34.000 Our politicians are not serious about how they discuss public policy in this country.

00:10:38.000 Our politicians have an incentive to lie to people, and they do it all the time.

00:10:42.000 Every policy that they propose is a policy that has no downsides.

00:10:46.000 It's a magical policy that has no downsides.

00:10:48.000 So if we lock down, that's because all of the data and all of the science suggests that we have to lock down.

00:10:54.000 Or, alternatively, if we open up, then there are not going to be any additional costs because we've flattened the curve.

00:10:59.000 Here's the deal.

00:11:00.000 Every single decision that we make about this thing is going to have risks, it's going to have trade-offs, it's going to have downsides, and it's going to have upsides.

00:11:07.000 And what we have to do is calculate which risks we as a society are willing to undertake.

00:11:12.000 And that means calculating in, yes, actuarial fashion, what exactly we are willing to undertake as a society and what we are not willing to undertake as a society.

00:11:21.000 This is called public policymaking.

00:11:22.000 This is not controversial. 1.00

00:11:23.000 Anybody who suggests it's controversial is being intellectually dishonest with you and or emotionally stupid. 1.00

00:11:28.000 Because this is ridiculous. 0.99

00:11:29.000 Okay, let me take an example that has nothing to do with COVID-19.

00:11:33.000 So, speed limits in the United States.

00:11:35.000 Speed limits in the United States, in most states, about 65 miles an hour is the speed limit on the freeways.

00:11:40.000 In some states it's higher, it's like 75 miles an hour.

00:11:44.000 If you look at the age of drivers and the rate of death for drivers in the United States, according to AAA, what you'll see is that the rate per 100 million miles driven for people who are aged 16 to 17 is you'll have 3.75 fatal crashes per 100 million miles driven for people aged 16 to 17.

00:12:04.000 This is according to the AAA Foundation, rates of involvement in all police-reported crashes, injury crashes, and fatal crashes per 100 million miles driven in relation to driver age.

00:12:13.000 This is as of 2014-2015.

00:12:13.000 as of 2014, 2015.

00:12:15.000 So if you're 16 or 17, you are at the highest risk for young people in getting in a fatal crash.

00:12:23.000 So theoretically, we could lower the speed limit in order to take care of those people.

00:12:27.000 That wouldn't actually change the thing, because the reason that young people get into car crashes is because young people tend to be more risk-seeking, because young people tend to drive in a more dangerous fashion.

00:12:36.000 You could lower the speed limit, young people would then violate the speed limit, and then they would get in car crashes.

00:12:40.000 The reason they are dying is because they are more reckless.

00:12:43.000 We are all more reckless when we are 16 or 17 years old.

00:12:45.000 Your amygdala is overdeveloped, which is the emotional center of your brain, as opposed to your prefrontal cortex, which allows you the facility of rational thought.

00:12:53.000 Okay, then the numbers steadily decline until you hit ages 40 to 49, and then they start to climb again.

00:13:00.000 Okay, the actual subgroup that is most likely to die in a car crash are people who are 80 and up.

00:13:07.000 If you're 80 and up, you're most likely to die in a car crash in the United States.

00:13:10.000 The rate is 3.85 people dying in car crashes per 100 million miles driven.

00:13:14.000 So, when we make a risk-reward calculation about speed limits, this is an area where, theoretically, if you lowered the speed limit to 35 miles an hour, you'd probably save a bunch of older people. 0.89

00:13:22.000 Or at least, you wouldn't save them.

00:13:24.000 You'd actually give them a better shot.

00:13:26.000 The risk level to them would be lower.

00:13:28.000 Why?

00:13:28.000 Because when the speed limit is lower, that means you need less reaction time.

00:13:32.000 Older people have slower reaction times. 1.00

00:13:34.000 So, if you were to lower the speed limit from 65 miles per hour to 35 miles per hour, Yes, you would probably shut down the economy in huge and significant ways.

00:13:43.000 Yes, you would make it nearly impossible for people to get to work on time.

00:13:46.000 Yes, you would basically shut down the freeways.

00:13:48.000 But you would make it less risky for old people to be on the roads. 1.00

00:13:52.000 Do we do that as a society?

00:13:53.000 We do not do that as a society because we have made the calculation that we are willing to undertake a little bit of additional risk for seniors, and that seniors are willing to undertake that additional risk if they choose to go on the freeway that day.

00:14:03.000 That's how public policy is made.

00:14:06.000 Many of these decisions are made on the basis of quality adjusted life years.

00:14:09.000 These are all actuarial decisions that we make.

00:14:12.000 And of course we take into account the various risk factors.

00:14:15.000 Of course we take into account when we make public policy the economic benefit of each individual person's health and age. 0.99

00:14:22.000 And any politician who tells you they're not doing this is a damned liar. 1.00

00:14:26.000 Is a ridiculous and damned liar. 1.00

00:14:28.000 Everybody understands this. 1.00

00:14:29.000 Everyone understands this.

00:14:30.000 Politicians have a stake in lying to you.

00:14:33.000 Because these are uncomfortable truths.

00:14:34.000 Is that policymakers are making trade-offs.

00:14:38.000 Policymakers win elections by pretending they don't make trade-offs.

00:14:41.000 That is the reality of the situation.

00:14:43.000 And every so often, you'll come across people who are honest enough to admit this.

00:14:47.000 So John Harris has a column And then he suggests in the pandemic everyone is a moral relativist.

00:14:59.000 Now, this is a misunderstanding of moral relativism.

00:15:01.000 Moral relativism is not... Moral relativism is not in any given situation there is a moral right and a moral wrong, or a moral better and a moral worse.

00:15:09.000 That's actually moral... That's moral absolutism, is that there is a right answer and there is a wrong answer.

00:15:14.000 Moral relativism suggests there is no right answer.

00:15:17.000 There is no better answer.

00:15:17.000 There is no worse answer.

00:15:19.000 Moral absolutism doesn't suggest that there are gradations of moral- that there are no gradations of morality.

00:15:23.000 Of course there are gradations of morality.

00:15:25.000 You can be a moral absolutist and still recognize that a second-degree murder is not quite the same as a first-degree murder.

00:15:30.000 But that's really not the point.

00:15:31.000 The point is that when it comes to public policy, everyone is making trade-offs and people who are not- who refuse to admit they're making trade-offs are just lying to you.

00:15:38.000 They're selling you something.

00:15:39.000 They're selling you something.

00:15:40.000 They're selling you snake oil.

00:15:42.000 We'll get to more of this in just one second because you'll see how the media are promoting this binary view of the world in which lockdown policy, they keep moving the goalposts because of this.

00:15:53.000 Lockdown policy has no costs and opening up has no benefits, right?

00:15:57.000 This is the logic they are pushing now, many in the media, that lockdown policy has no cost because you're saving lives and even if we opened it up, even if we opened it up, people wouldn't go back to work because everybody is scared.

00:16:07.000 Okay, let's be real about this.

00:16:09.000 There are trade-offs.

00:16:11.000 Anyone who tells you differently is selling you something.

00:16:14.000 Everyone knows this.

00:16:15.000 To pretend you don't know this, to get all upset about it, to pretend that you are not increasing risk for certain populations when you reopen, is to lie.

00:16:23.000 And I understand some people like being lied to.

00:16:25.000 That's not what we do on this program.

00:16:26.000 That's not what we should do in public life.

00:16:27.000 We should demand honesty from our leaders.

00:16:29.000 We'll get to more of this in just one second.

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00:18:07.000 Alrighty, so.

00:18:08.000 Back to the risk-reward calculation here.

00:18:12.000 So everybody knows there's going to be a second wave.

00:18:14.000 Anthony Fauci, over at the National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases, he says, a second wave is inevitable.

00:18:23.000 This is reality, guys.

00:18:24.000 This is called reality.

00:18:25.000 We're not locking down for 12 to 18 months.

00:18:27.000 And everyone knows this.

00:18:28.000 Andrew Cuomo knows this.

00:18:29.000 Jared Polis in Colorado knows this.

00:18:30.000 By the way, hilarious that Jared Polis somehow escaped scrutiny for doing exactly the same stuff that Greg Abbott in Texas is doing and Ron DeSantis in Florida is doing.

00:18:38.000 And Kristi Noem in South Dakota is doing.

00:18:40.000 But Jared Palos is a Democrat, so we have to pretend he doesn't exist for purposes of the media narrative here.

00:18:44.000 But here is Dr. Fauci saying, yes, there will be a second wave.

00:18:48.000 Of course there will be a second wave.

00:18:49.000 This is why everybody who's screaming at Sweden, you guys are risking people's lives by being out there. 0.82

00:18:54.000 Sweden ain't going to have a second wave.

00:18:55.000 You know why?

00:18:56.000 Because they never locked down in the first place.

00:19:00.000 Yes, of course.

00:19:01.000 Who's been saying this since the beginning?

00:19:02.000 I have, because I've been honest with you about the fact that there are rewards and there are costs to the lockdown.

00:19:08.000 By the way, speaking of Sweden, I should just note, we'll play Dr. Fauci and then I'll get to Sweden.

00:19:11.000 I should just note, the World Health Organization, which was taking the position that Chinese-style lockdowns were the best available policy, is now saying, you know who actually is doing this kind of right? 0.99

00:19:19.000 Sweden.

00:19:20.000 Yeah, no bleep, Sherlock.

00:19:22.000 Here's Dr. Fauci.

00:19:23.000 It's not gonna disappear from the planet, which means as we get into next season, in my mind, it's inevitable that we will have a return of the virus, or maybe it never even went away.

00:19:38.000 When it does, how we handle it will determine our fate.

00:19:45.000 If by that time, We have put into place all of the countermeasures that you need to address this.

00:19:54.000 We should do reasonably well.

00:19:57.000 If we don't do that successfully, we could be in for a bad fall and a bad winter.

00:20:03.000 Right, so reasonably well, we're all going to do our best, and also there are risks.

00:20:06.000 There are additional risks to American life.

00:20:08.000 Now, when you make public policy, it is also important to understand that there is a difference between taking risks in public policy and mandating.

00:20:16.000 And mandating, for example, rationing.

00:20:17.000 Okay, so when we decide that we are going to open up our economy again, and that this comes along with additional risks.

00:20:22.000 So when we decide that the speed limit is going to be 65, and this comes along with additional risks to people with slower reaction times on the freeways, which is the same basic argument. 0.96

00:20:31.000 I'm not comparing driving to a communicable disease for purposes of morons out there. 0.93

00:20:35.000 That's not what I'm doing. 0.94

00:20:36.000 What I'm saying is all public policy is made in effectively the same way, which is you balance risk and you balance rewards.

00:20:40.000 And when you're talking about additional risks to populations, this is also not the same thing.

00:20:45.000 When you say there's an additional risk to the population in reopening, and that additional risk is going to fall disproportionately on elderly people.

00:20:52.000 And that is not the same thing as if the disproportionate risk fell disproportionately on five-year-olds.

00:20:58.000 Of course.

00:20:58.000 We all make these calculations every time we do public policy.

00:21:02.000 All the time.

00:21:04.000 We do it in our daily lives, too.

00:21:06.000 There's a reason why we allow 81-year-olds who are capable of crossing the street by themselves.

00:21:11.000 But yes, it is riskier for them than it would be for a 30-year-old to walk across the street by themselves.

00:21:14.000 We don't mandate they have to hold the hand of a 30-year-old.

00:21:16.000 But if I'm with my 5-year-old daughter, I'm going to mandate that she hold my hand when we cross the street.

00:21:21.000 Whenever we make decisions, we take into account all of the factors. 1.00

00:21:24.000 And if you don't take into account all of the factors, you're either lying or you're stupid. 0.98

00:21:27.000 So the reason that we are talking about all of this and the risks and the rewards is because increasing risk to certain populations in public policymaking is just the way public policy is done. 0.99

00:21:41.000 That is not the same thing as mandating that certain people die.

00:21:45.000 Okay, so I've seen people suggest that if you say there are risks and rewards to public policy and reopening and ending lockdowns, that this isn't safe.

00:21:52.000 You were against death panels back in 2014.

00:21:54.000 Right, because that's the government mandating that you cannot receive care if you are over a certain age or have a certain condition.

00:21:59.000 I do not think that the government should mandate you can't get COVID-19 treatment if you're 81.

00:22:04.000 I think you should be able to get any treatment that you are capable of getting.

00:22:07.000 I think that you should get all of the treatments.

00:22:09.000 I also think that as a society, when we perform risk-reward functions and come up with public policy, risks go up, risks go down.

00:22:15.000 That is not the same thing as the government mandating that certain people do not get care or that certain people do get care. 1.00

00:22:22.000 Other things this is not comparable to for people who are complete morons. 0.99

00:22:26.000 Not comparable to abortion policy. 1.00

00:22:27.000 Abortion policy is about the willful killing of a human life.

00:22:32.000 When you say that if we open up that there will be additional risks to people in nursing homes, which is true, when you say that, that is not the same thing as saying, also, it's totally fine if you drive over to the nursing home and shoot grandma in the forehead.

00:22:44.000 Okay, that abortion policy is you drove over to a clinic and you shot the baby in the forehead.

00:22:48.000 That is not the same thing.

00:22:50.000 When we are talking about how to make public policy, could we at least be somewhat intellectually consistent and somewhat intellectually honest? 0.99

00:22:57.000 Or do we have to pretend to be complete morons and just walk around spouting bumper sticker crap like Andrew Cuomo while lying about it? 0.99

00:23:04.000 We're going to walk around and say, well, if we even save one life. 0.98

00:23:07.000 Also, by the way, we're opening businesses in Rochester tomorrow.

00:23:10.000 Well, then didn't you just increase the risk to old people in Rochester? 0.97

00:23:16.000 And nobody's honest about this stuff.

00:23:17.000 Nobody is honest. 0.98

00:23:18.000 This is how you end up with idiotic articles over at The Atlantic by Amanda Moe called, Georgia's Experiment in Human Sacrifice. 0.99

00:23:26.000 Experiment in human sacrifice? 0.98

00:23:28.000 It is not a human sacrifice to say that we are going to gradually reopen business and this comes along with additional risks for tranches of the population.

00:23:37.000 That is not human sacrifice.

00:23:39.000 Freedom is not human sacrifice.

00:23:42.000 The fact that we should take measures to protect people who are particularly vulnerable and particularly old.

00:23:47.000 Of course we should do all of those things.

00:23:49.000 Also, it's not human sacrifice to suggest that maybe businesses should be socially responsible.

00:23:55.000 They should participate in mask wearing and social distancing and people can go back to work.

00:23:58.000 That's not human sacrifice and to characterize it that way is the worst kind of bad faith.

00:24:02.000 It truly is bad faith.

00:24:04.000 We'll get to more of this in just one second because it's maddening.

00:24:07.000 It's almost as though there's a deliberate attempt to avoid any serious discussion of the ramifications of public policy here.

00:24:13.000 Almost as if.

00:24:15.000 Or alternatively, that's exactly what people are doing right now.

00:24:17.000 Because they have a vested interest in not having serious discussions about the fact that every policy you choose has downsides.

00:24:23.000 And the policy of complete lockdown right now has downsides in terms of suicides.

00:24:26.000 It has downsides in terms of poverty with 30 million people unemployed.

00:24:29.000 It has downsides in nearly every terminology you can imagine.

00:24:33.000 Serious downsides in risk to human life, by the way.

00:24:36.000 People are not getting vaccinated.

00:24:37.000 They're not vaccinating their kids.

00:24:38.000 People are not going in for chemo treatments.

00:24:39.000 People are not going in with heart disease.

00:24:41.000 People are not going in with various medical conditions.

00:24:44.000 But we have one side of the aisle who want the lockdowns to continue pretending there are no costs to the lockdown, which is just dishonesty of the highest order.

00:24:51.000 More on this in just one second.

00:24:53.000 First, let's talk about the fact that right now, especially during economic turmoil with new legislation on the books that you may not know, you really need to be on top of your HR issues.

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00:26:12.000 Okay, so when we talk about exactly how we figure out, you know, what are the risks and the rewards, we need to talk about the various risks that exist.

00:26:23.000 So the WHO has now determined that, by the way, Sweden looks pretty good.

00:26:27.000 Weird, because it seemed like people were rooting real hard on the American political left, particularly for Sweden to fail.

00:26:32.000 There's a lot of rooting for Sweden to fail.

00:26:34.000 Sweden did not lock down the entire country.

00:26:36.000 They said, if you are aged, if you have a pre-existing condition, we are going to try to protect you.

00:26:42.000 They said that their biggest failure was not protecting the nursing homes.

00:26:45.000 By the way, you know who else's biggest failure was not protecting the nursing homes?

00:26:48.000 Andrew Cuomo in New York, right, who is allowing people with COVID-19 back into nursing homes, actually forcing them back into nursing homes.

00:26:53.000 But That was their big failure in Sweden.

00:26:56.000 The rest of their policy was basically, go out, about your business, socially distance at restaurants, no events over 50 people, and that's pretty much it.

00:27:04.000 That's pretty much it.

00:27:05.000 The parks didn't shut down.

00:27:07.000 And guess what?

00:27:07.000 Now the W.H.O.

00:27:09.000 is saying, and they're the gold standard according to YouTube, W.H.O.

00:27:12.000 is saying, hey, maybe Sweden got it right.

00:27:15.000 Dr. Mike Ryan, W.H.O.' 's top emergencies expert, said Wednesday, there are lessons to be learned from the Scandinavian nation, which has largely relied on citizens to self-regulate.

00:27:23.000 Ryan said, I think there's a perception out that Sweden has not put in control measures and has just allowed the disease to spread.

00:27:28.000 Nothing can be further from the truth.

00:27:30.000 Ryan noted that instead of lockdowns, the country put in place a very strong public policy around social distancing, around caring and protecting people in long-term care facilities.

00:27:38.000 What it has done differently is it has very much relied on its relationship with its citizenry and the ability and willingness of its citizens to implement self-distancing and self-regulate.

00:27:45.000 In that sense, they've implemented public policy through the partnership with the population.

00:27:50.000 He said they also had adequate capacity in hospitals, which, by the way, we have in the United States also.

00:27:54.000 We have not seen the curve spike above the medical capacity in the United States.

00:27:59.000 You know what Sweden assumed all along?

00:28:02.000 And the Swedish public officials say this publicly and openly.

00:28:05.000 They assumed a lot of people were going to get this and some people were going to die.

00:28:08.000 Because that's what happens with communicable diseases.

00:28:10.000 And they also assumed that the cost of shutting down their economy would not be worthwhile.

00:28:14.000 And they also assumed that lockdowns would not necessarily save lives in the long term because you would end up coming out of lockdown and then you would end up where Germany is.

00:28:20.000 Germany, according to the UK Sun, is now facing the prospect of returning to a stricter lockdown after a surge in coronavirus infections and death.

00:28:28.000 So Germany got a lot of praise because there were 75 deaths per 1 million population in Germany.

00:28:34.000 But that's also because they locked everybody down.

00:28:36.000 Well, there's only one problem, which is then they ended the lockdown.

00:28:39.000 And guess what happened?

00:28:40.000 Everybody went back to work and they started infecting each other.

00:28:44.000 Sweden never had that problem.

00:28:45.000 There are trade-offs to public policy, folks.

00:28:47.000 There are trade-offs to the policies that you choose. 0.99

00:28:50.000 And the stupidity of running an article like Georgia's experiment in human sacrifice to suggest that one sort of policy is about human sacrifice, whereas the other humane and wonderful policy is just to lock down forever. 0.84

00:29:02.000 What do the lockdown advocates hope to achieve? 0.99

00:29:04.000 Like they still have not answered this question.

00:29:06.000 What exactly are they hoping to achieve that is so contrary to the interests of people who are hoping to reopen in measured and reasonable fashion?

00:29:14.000 I'm not aware of any single policy advocate who's advocating at this point for a full-on open up the stadiums, open up the sports games, open up everything, no masks, hug each other in public.

00:29:25.000 Nobody is advocating for that.

00:29:27.000 So now the choice is between responsible reopening and locking down forever.

00:29:31.000 Because I've yet to hear the metric by which people will not lock down forever.

00:29:35.000 What exactly are the people who are advocating the lengthened lockdowns hoping for?

00:29:39.000 Outside of, you know, specific areas like New York City that are already hard hit.

00:29:44.000 What exactly are they hoping for?

00:29:46.000 They've yet to articulate the rationale.

00:29:48.000 Instead, it's just a bunch of accusations thrown at people who want to reopen, like, you don't care about human life.

00:29:53.000 You don't care about grandma. 0.96

00:29:55.000 You don't care about, you're just mean and cruel. 0.93

00:29:58.000 You only want to do this so that you can get a haircut.

00:30:00.000 No, actually, I can bring the haircut person to my house.

00:30:03.000 I really can.

00:30:04.000 I can have my wife cut my hair. 1.00

00:30:05.000 It won't look great, but we can do it.

00:30:06.000 That ain't the issue.

00:30:07.000 The issue is there are a lot of people who are losing their dreams, their livelihood, and their freedoms.

00:30:11.000 And those are actual countervailing concerns.

00:30:14.000 If I sound a little angry today, it's because I am.

00:30:16.000 I'm very angry that there are people who supposedly are responsible journalists, people who are supposedly responsible politicians, who fail to even acknowledge that public policy is difficult and that it involves competing interests and values.

00:30:31.000 And that's just, I don't like when people lie to you.

00:30:33.000 I don't like when people lie to me.

00:30:35.000 And I don't like when people lie about me.

00:30:36.000 And you've seen a lot of that.

00:30:38.000 You've seen a lot of that.

00:30:39.000 So Elon Musk is getting dragged over the coals, raked over the coals today because he was pointing out that the coronavirus shelter-in-place orders are a problem.

00:30:48.000 And this apparently is very bad because Elon Musk is very wealthy.

00:30:51.000 Now, let's be real about this.

00:30:52.000 If you're very wealthy, you know who's gonna be okay throughout this?

00:30:55.000 Elon Musk.

00:30:56.000 Seriously, dude has a lot of cash.

00:30:57.000 He'll be alright.

00:30:58.000 You know who's getting absolutely walloped right now?

00:31:00.000 People at the lower end of the economic spectrum.

00:31:02.000 People who are blue-collar workers.

00:31:04.000 People who need to earn a living. 0.98

00:31:05.000 People whose jobs may not exist on the other end of this if all the small businesses go under.

00:31:09.000 Elon Musk said, to say they cannot leave their house and they will be arrested if they do, that's fascist.

00:31:13.000 This is not democratic.

00:31:14.000 It's not freedom.

00:31:15.000 Give people back their effing freedom.

00:31:17.000 Now, give people back their freedom in reasonable measure?

00:31:22.000 Makes sense.

00:31:23.000 He is not wrong about that.

00:31:26.000 He is right that many of the public policies that are now being pursued are being done without rationale and are being done in irresponsible fashion and without recognizing that there are costs to these lockdowns.

00:31:36.000 By the way, some of the costs of the lockdowns?

00:31:37.000 The complete destruction of the American food chain.

00:31:40.000 The American food supply chains have been completely destroyed because they are just-in-time supply chains.

00:31:45.000 And that means that when there is a disruption, it disrupts the entire food supply chain.

00:31:49.000 So this is all fun and games until people can't get what they want at the grocery store.

00:31:53.000 That's when the riots start.

00:31:54.000 That's when things really get ugly.

00:31:55.000 But don't worry, there are no countervailing costs.

00:31:57.000 No countervailing costs at all to shutting down the entire economy indefinitely.

00:32:03.000 And people who want to reopen their nail salons are evil also.

00:32:05.000 There's an article in the New York Times by a woman named Jenna Kao, who's the owner of Chateau de Nails in Georgia.

00:32:11.000 And she says, the rest of us have to begin to find a new normal as best we can.

00:32:15.000 This means she's evil, guys.

00:32:16.000 She's evil. 1.00

00:32:16.000 She's bad. 1.00

00:32:17.000 She doesn't care about grandma. 0.99

00:32:19.000 That's the way this works, right? 1.00

00:32:21.000 It's so transparent, so dishonest, so stupid. 0.99

00:32:25.000 We all understand that there are going to be trade-offs except for politicians who lie to you and media members who make bank off of pretending there are no trade-offs so they can draw a black and white moral spectrum in an area where there happen to be no incredibly easy answers. 1.00

00:32:39.000 We're going to get to more of this and California's incredibly stupid policy in just one second. 0.96

00:32:44.000 Let's talk about the fact that this is your chance to become your mother's favorite child. 0.99

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00:33:54.000 Okay, we are going to get to, in just a moment, Gavin Newsom and his continued idiotic policy. 0.98

00:33:59.000 We are also going to be getting to the FBI, which Radically botched the Michael Flynn investigation. 0.96

00:34:04.000 When I say botched, I mean, somebody probably should go to jail for this, and it shouldn't be Michael Flynn.

00:34:09.000 We'll get to that in just one second.

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00:35:23.000 who you're listening to the largest, fastest-growing conservative podcast and radio show in the nation.

00:35:27.000 So let's talk about what's going on here in California.

00:35:36.000 So, as I have said, in California, the dumbest possible policy is shutting down all of the state parks and beaches.

00:35:41.000 People should be outdoors, and they should be socially distancing. 0.91

00:35:43.000 And guess what?

00:35:44.000 At a certain point, people are going to be let out of their houses, and they're going to have to be responsible.

00:35:48.000 So, I'm not sure what makes you think, Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, that people will be more responsible three weeks from now, or two months from now, than they will be today.

00:35:56.000 All that's going to happen is people are just going to disobey you.

00:35:58.000 There's going to be an awful lot of civil disobedience this weekend.

00:36:00.000 It's really nice outside here in Southern California.

00:36:03.000 If you think that Californians are just going to stay inside because you're Gavin Newsom and you say so, you got another thing coming.

00:36:08.000 So Gavin Newsom is very angry, of course, because what happened last weekend is it was super nice outside.

00:36:13.000 He had shut down all of the—L.A.

00:36:14.000 County had shut down all of its beaches.

00:36:16.000 And so Santa Monica was shut down and completely barricaded.

00:36:19.000 So everybody from Santa Monica Got in their cars, and they went to Newport Beach, which was completely open.

00:36:25.000 And 40,000 people showed up at Newport Beach.

00:36:27.000 And virtually everyone was social distancing.

00:36:29.000 If you looked at the actual pictures from above, people were far apart from one another.

00:36:32.000 A lot of people went over to Oxnard and they were social distancing on the beach over in Oxnard.

00:36:35.000 Well, Gavin Newsom can't have that!

00:36:37.000 Gavin Newsom won't allow you to be in public socially distancing from each other.

00:36:41.000 That's bad!

00:36:42.000 So Gavin Newsom is going to announce the closure of all beaches and state parks effective May 1st in response to the recent beach crowds in the OC.

00:36:49.000 By the way, in China, there is a study.

00:36:52.000 You know how many cases it found of human-to-human transmission in open public areas?

00:36:58.000 Not inside rooms, like in open public outdoors.

00:37:02.000 It found two.

00:37:03.000 Okay, people are not infecting each other on the beaches.

00:37:06.000 People are not infecting each other at parks.

00:37:07.000 That is not how this is happening.

00:37:09.000 Unless they're having like a rave at the park, that is not what is going on. 1.00

00:37:13.000 Gavin Newsom, and here's the part of this that's so stupid. 0.99

00:37:16.000 So, think of the public areas of California like a hot air balloon, or any balloon for that matter. 0.98

00:37:23.000 If you squeeze the balloon, all you are doing is removing the air from a particular area of the balloon, and then you're redistributing that air to other areas of the balloon.

00:37:32.000 So guess what?

00:37:32.000 Californians, we're all still gonna go out this weekend.

00:37:35.000 We're all still gonna do it.

00:37:36.000 We're just not gonna be able to go to any of the state parks.

00:37:38.000 So guess what we're gonna do? 1.00

00:37:39.000 We're gonna go to all the city parks, you idiot! 1.00

00:37:42.000 Everyone I know in L.A. 1.00

00:37:43.000 County last week went to someplace not in L.A.

00:37:46.000 County, because Eric Garcetti tried this, and so did the L.A.

00:37:48.000 County Board of Supervisors.

00:37:49.000 You know what everybody did?

00:37:50.000 They got in their car, they went elsewhere.

00:37:52.000 There are still city parks that are open.

00:37:54.000 All that's gonna happen is now you are forcing crowding in areas! 0.98

00:37:57.000 Instead of giving you a broader spectrum of areas to choose from, which would diffuse the population over a broader raw area, instead you're shutting down certain areas, which means everybody's still going to go out, but now they're in half the area, which is the opposite of social distancing, you dolt. 0.98

00:38:14.000 What the hell are you talking about? 0.99

00:38:15.000 It's so ridiculous. 0.99

00:38:16.000 So they put out a notification. 0.89

00:38:18.000 So what are they going to do, mass arrest all the people who go to the beaches and are six feet away from each other?

00:38:23.000 So what are they going to do?

00:38:34.000 Mass arrest all the people who go to the beaches and are six feet away from each other?

00:38:37.000 Is this public policy well calibrated?

00:38:39.000 Is this public policy well calibrated?

00:38:43.000 Of course it's not.

00:38:46.000 At this point, it's simple virtue signaling.

00:38:48.000 And that's all it is.

00:38:49.000 It is not true virtue.

00:38:49.000 It is virtue signaling, because you're not saving lives with this kind of stuff.

00:38:53.000 You just are not.

00:38:55.000 If we are actually going to construct a realistic public policy, you know what we ought to be doing?

00:38:58.000 What I've been saying all along.

00:38:59.000 We need to be protecting people who are old and vulnerable, and we need to be tranching populations that are healthy and young back into the population. 1.00

00:39:05.000 I'm about to give you the actual mortality rates.

00:39:07.000 It's based on antibody tests in New York City and the death numbers in New York City.

00:39:11.000 Here are the actual case fatality rates in New York City by age group.

00:39:15.000 Okay, if you are 18 to 24, your chances of death are one in 2,500.

00:39:22.000 If you are 25 to 34, your chances of death are 1 in 2,500.

00:39:26.000 This is according to the antibody test that Andrew Cuomo has been citing in New York.

00:39:31.000 If you are 35 to 44, your chances of death from COVID-19 are 1 out of every 1,000.

00:39:35.000 This is actually if you get it, right?

00:39:37.000 If you don't get it, your chances of COVID-19 death are 0.

00:39:39.000 But if you actually get it, right?

00:39:41.000 This is if you acquire it.

00:39:42.000 So 1 out of every 2,500 people who acquires it and is aged 18 to 34 will die.

00:39:46.000 Okay, so 2,499 of those people will not die.

00:39:52.000 If you are 35 to 44, 999 out of every 1,000 people will not die.

00:39:54.000 If you are 45 to 54, 997 out of every 1,000 people will not die.

00:39:57.000 If you are 55 to 64, 993 out of every 1,000 people who get it will not die.

00:40:00.000 997 out of every 1,000 people will not die.

00:40:02.000 If you are 55 to 64, 993 out of every 1,000 people who get it will not die.

00:40:08.000 If you are 65 to 74, then 9,000, sorry, yes, 979 out of every 1,000 people will not die.

00:40:19.000 So 21 out of every 1,000 people will die.

00:40:22.000 If you are 75 plus, right, this is the high-risk group. 0.99

00:40:24.000 If you are 75 plus, then 40 out of every 1,000 people will die, right?

00:40:29.000 It's about a 4% death rate for true infection fatality rate.

00:40:32.000 What that suggests is that we should be trenching populations.

00:40:35.000 And we should be deciding public policy by finding the most vulnerable and protecting them.

00:40:39.000 And also, we should be recognizing that the risk is not equivalently spread across the population.

00:40:44.000 And when we figure out public policy, If there is an additional marginal risk to populations that are more vulnerable, but it also means that we can increase the actual economic output of the United States by leaps and bounds.

00:40:55.000 We can get back to a place where we don't have tens of millions of people unemployed and hundreds of thousands of businesses shutting down and people who are gliding up at food banks in the thousands.

00:41:05.000 If we could do that, and there's a marginal risk increase because we have already created lockdown strategies for the nursing homes, which is where a huge disproportionate number of these deaths are taking place, then what the hell are you talking about, shutting down beaches?

00:41:19.000 We've moved beyond the point of sanity here.

00:41:20.000 We just have.

00:41:21.000 I mean, this didn't have to become a political debate.

00:41:23.000 There's nothing political about this.

00:41:24.000 And in fact, it really isn't political.

00:41:25.000 Jared Polis in Colorado feels the same way that I do about this.

00:41:28.000 He'll just lie to you about it, presumably.

00:41:30.000 By the way, you know who else feels the same way I do about risks and rewards and calculating all this stuff?

00:41:34.000 Every single policymaker who has ever lived in the history of humanity.

00:41:38.000 And they are all doing exactly the same sorts of calculations.

00:41:41.000 The only question is, what are their, not the inputs, not the data inputs.

00:41:44.000 The only question is, what are the formulas that they are using that spit out their solutions?

00:41:50.000 And many of them will just lie to you.

00:41:51.000 They don't have a formula.

00:41:52.000 They're basically just going by their gut and saying, okay, well, I'm gonna get political blowback if I end the lockdown.

00:41:57.000 And so I'm just gonna continue locking down because at least that way I can't be blamed for anything bad that's happening.

00:42:01.000 On a political level, locking down is a lot easier.

00:42:05.000 Then restarting.

00:42:06.000 Because the costs are obvious when you restart, and the benefits are obvious but also diffuse.

00:42:14.000 It's easier for the media to run a headline, and you'll start to see these in the next couple weeks, right?

00:42:18.000 Two weeks from now, somebody in Georgia will die of COVID-19.

00:42:20.000 And they'll say, the day after the lockdowns ended, this person went to the barber shop and got COVID-19.

00:42:27.000 Then the media will run with that story.

00:42:29.000 And we won't look at what the competing interests are.

00:42:32.000 All you'll get is that anecdotal case, and then it'll be, look how bad it was to end the lockdown in the first place.

00:42:37.000 Now, as soon as the Democrats start doing it, as soon as Andrew Cuomo starts doing it in New York, then it'll be the bravery of Andrew Cuomo making the hard choices, guys, making the hard choices.

00:42:47.000 All of this is absurd. 0.89

00:42:48.000 All of this is, frankly, quite ridiculous. 0.93

00:42:52.000 This should be apolitical in the extreme. 0.95

00:42:54.000 It is not.

00:42:54.000 It never is.

00:42:55.000 Okay, meanwhile, The 2020 race continues to be completely up in the air.

00:43:00.000 Something kind of fascinating is happening, and that is that the Tara Reade story is finally starting to break into the news.

00:43:05.000 It only took a month.

00:43:06.000 It only took a month.

00:43:07.000 And four separate witnesses suggesting that Tara Reade had told them that Joe Biden sexually assaulted her, and told them back at the time that it happened.

00:43:16.000 Only now are people starting on the left to say, hey, wait a second, you know, we kind of look hypocritical here if we just sort of blow this thing off.

00:43:22.000 Now, there are some people who are blowing it off.

00:43:23.000 Nancy Pelosi, for example, is continuing to blow this thing off. 1.00

00:43:26.000 She says that she believes that Joe Biden's account is good.

00:43:31.000 There's only one problem.

00:43:31.000 Joe Biden never provided an account.

00:43:33.000 Joe Biden just said, I didn't do it.

00:43:35.000 And he's never even said that publicly.

00:43:36.000 His campaign put out a statement.

00:43:39.000 Meanwhile, the Biden campaign was putting out this New York Times story that came out a few weeks ago that kind of went into the details of Tara Reade's shifting story.

00:43:46.000 Let me be clear.

00:43:47.000 I have serious doubts about Tara Reade's story.

00:43:49.000 Like, really, real doubts.

00:43:51.000 Just like I had very real doubts about Christine Blasey Ford's story.

00:43:54.000 The double standard, however, is that the media have completely undermined their own objective stance when they went all out for Christine Blasey Ford and were basically selling Christine Blasey Ford votive candles.

00:44:06.000 And then when it comes to Tara Reade, it's like, well, you know, we gotta be, we gotta show some, let's follow the chain of evidence, guys.

00:44:11.000 Suddenly they're, suddenly they're Lenny from law and order when it comes to, when it comes to tracking down actual facts, if a Democrat is involved.

00:44:18.000 When it's a Republican, it's like, oh, there's an allegation.

00:44:20.000 Probably means they did it.

00:44:22.000 In any case, the New York Times ran down the story in mid-April.

00:44:26.000 It did not suggest that Tara Reade was actually—it didn't debunk Tara Reade's whole story.

00:44:30.000 It asked serious questions about Tara Reade's story.

00:44:32.000 The Biden campaign then put it out there that the New York Times had debunked Tara Reade's story, and the New York Times was forced to come out and issue a statement saying, oh, no, we didn't.

00:44:41.000 According to the Times Vice President of Communications, Danielle Rodes Ha, she said in a statement, Our investigation made no conclusion either way.

00:44:47.000 points being circulated by the Biden campaign that inaccurately suggest a New York Times investigation found that Tara Reid's allegation did not happen.

00:44:54.000 Our investigation made no conclusion either way.

00:44:56.000 As BuzzFeed correctly reported, our story found three former Senate aides whom Reid said she complained to contemporaneously, all of whom either did not remember the incident or said it did not happen.

00:45:05.000 So the Rhodes-Haven said that reporters described a significant amount of evidence supporting She said, The Times also spoke to a friend who said Reid told her the details of the allegation at the time.

00:45:16.000 So the New York Times being forced to rebut Biden campaign talking points based on the New York Times story is pretty solid stuff.

00:45:36.000 Thank you.

00:45:38.000 Meanwhile, there's a piece of the New York Times today.

00:45:39.000 Democratic frustration mounts as Biden remains silent on sexual assault allegations.

00:45:44.000 And this is starting to break apart the Democratic Party.

00:45:47.000 Chris Hayes over on MSNBC, who for a man of the left, tends to be more honest than the average.

00:45:55.000 Chris Hayes yesterday covered the Tara Reid allegations. 0.98

00:45:57.000 He started trending on Twitter because Twitter apparently is now only for trending stupid topics. 0.93

00:46:02.000 So Twitter trended Chris Hayes. 0.99

00:46:04.000 Why?

00:46:04.000 Because he had the gall to mention that perhaps Joe Biden should say something about the allegations.

00:46:08.000 Part of the difficult lesson of the MeToo era is not that every accusation is true and everything should be believed on its face, but that you do have to fight yourself when you feel that impulse.

00:46:19.000 You have to do that in order to take seriously what is being alleged and what the evidence is and to evaluate it.

00:46:25.000 And that is the case with the accusation by a woman named Tara Reid against Joe Biden.

00:46:30.000 Reid briefly worked as a Senate aide in Biden's office in the early 90s.

00:46:33.000 Last year, she told a California newspaper that in 1993, Joe Biden, quote, touched her several times, making her feel uncomfortable.

00:46:41.000 Okay, so the fact that Chris Hayes even covered it meant that he was trending last night.

00:46:44.000 People were literally trending, fire Chris Hayes, which demonstrates the same people who are tweeting, hashtag MeToo, hashtag BelieveAllWomen, were tweeting last night, hashtag fire Chris Hayes.

00:46:53.000 It's pretty rich.

00:46:54.000 But there is a groundswell of upset over the Tara Reid allegations.

00:46:57.000 A New York writer named Rebecca Traister was on national TV last night, suggesting that Biden actually needs to answer questions.

00:47:03.000 He doesn't just get to ignore all of this.

00:47:06.000 What this is creating is a kind of perfect storm where the women who are being asked to support his opponent are now also being asked to answer for these charges in part because of the vacuum created by Joe Biden, who is not yet really directly answering these questions and certainly not doing what I wish he would, which is to say, please direct your questions about these allegations to me and not the women that are out there offering their support to my candidacy.

00:47:34.000 This is correct.

00:47:35.000 I mean, basically all of these women who are trying to audition for vice president for Joe Biden are out there answering questions about Joe Biden and what he did in 1993 or did not do.

00:47:43.000 And Joe Biden has been hiding in his basement talking with Hillary Clinton and occasionally fainting because he is not really all that alive at this point.

00:47:50.000 There is a groundswell building against Joe Biden on this, and he's going to have to address it.

00:47:53.000 Now, once he addresses it, then the media will just dismiss it.

00:47:56.000 As soon as he says, listen, I think that all women should have a right to tell their story, but this didn't happen, and I don't remember Tara Reid.

00:48:03.000 I've had many interns over the years, but I certainly would have remembered doing something.

00:48:06.000 Then the media will basically just let it go.

00:48:08.000 But Biden is going to have to speak about it, and this is going to hover around Biden.

00:48:12.000 For people who suggest, by the way, that Trump is not going to be able to use this because Biden will just point out Trump's own wild history with regard to women.

00:48:20.000 Yeah, we all know about that.

00:48:21.000 The stuff about Biden is more damaging to Biden because it cuts against the grain of what Biden is campaigning on.

00:48:26.000 Trump never really campaigned on, I am Chris, I am absolutely clean with women.

00:48:30.000 He never campaigned on that, like ever.

00:48:33.000 That is what Biden campaigns on, so it will be damaging to Biden.

00:48:35.000 Now, meanwhile, the polls for President Trump don't look great right now.

00:48:39.000 If the economy recovers, Trump has a shot at victory. 0.54

00:48:41.000 If the economy continues to suck, Trump is in real trouble.

00:48:44.000 That is also true with regard to the volatility of his commentary.

00:48:48.000 According to the Associated Press, President Trump erupted at top political advisors last week when they presented him with worrisome polling data that showed his support eroding in a series of battleground states as his response to coronavirus comes under criticism.

00:49:00.000 While Trump saw some of his best approval ratings of his presidency during the early weeks of the crisis, aides highlighted the growing political cost of the crisis and the unforced errors by Trump in his freewheeling press briefings.

00:49:10.000 Trump reacted with defiance.

00:49:12.000 He said, I'm not effing losing to Joe Biden.

00:49:15.000 This is according to five people with knowledge of the conversations.

00:49:18.000 Trump was being told that he was trailing in a lot of the battleground states.

00:49:23.000 The president should take the advice of his advisors on this one.

00:49:25.000 The fact is that if the president continues to be volatile in his approach to this thing at a time when people are looking for solidity, that is going to continue to be a problem for him.

00:49:37.000 An insane, insane story involving Michael Flynn.

00:49:40.000 It seems like the case against Michael Flynn not only is falling apart, it looks like, frankly, a railroad job by the FBI.

00:49:46.000 It's pretty incredible.

00:49:47.000 We'll get to that first.

00:49:48.000 It's time for A Thing I Like.

00:49:50.000 So, things I like today.

00:49:52.000 Robert Harris is a novelist who I really had not spent a lot of time with.

00:49:55.000 He's terrific.

00:49:56.000 He really is good.

00:49:57.000 He's got a series, a three-part series on Cato, sorry, on Cicero, rather, the famous Roman philosopher and politician who is involved in many of the chief events surrounding the rise of Julius Caesar.

00:50:12.000 The first of these books is called Imperium.

00:50:16.000 Robert Harris was a reporter I believe for the BBC and now he writes historical novels.

00:50:19.000 He also wrote a book that I'm in the middle of right now called An Officer and a Spy.

00:50:24.000 And this one has been made into a movie by Roman Polanski.

00:50:25.000 It won all sorts of awards in France.

00:50:27.000 But because we live in an era in which if a director did something evil, horrible, criminal, We're not going to release his movie anymore.

00:50:34.000 Nobody can actually get a hold of the film. 0.90

00:50:35.000 So the same people in Hollywood who are giving Roman Polanski a standing ovation for winning Best Director at the Oscars for The Pianist now will not give distribution to a film about the Dreyfus Affair in France because Roman Polanski is a criminal, is a convicted criminal, a convicted rapist in the United States.

00:50:50.000 Now, here's my view of Roman Polanski. 0.86

00:50:51.000 He should be in jail.

00:50:52.000 Also, we should be able to see his movies.

00:50:54.000 This is my view generally of artists. 0.83

00:50:56.000 If the standard is going to be that you only get to view the art of people who are morally good, you can kiss goodbye to art because it turns out artists are notoriously crappy human beings.

00:51:05.000 But this has little to do with Robert Harris.

00:51:07.000 His book Imperium is really a fun read.

00:51:09.000 If you like sort of the Hilary Mantel style, Novels about historical figures and trying to get in their heads and follow the politics of the era is a really well-researched He also has written a couple of other books one is called fatherland It's an alternative history in which the Nazis won World War two kind of man-in-the-high-castle style But more detailed and check out his work Robert Harris is really really good and Imperium is definitely worth the read Okay time for a thing that I hate

00:51:36.000 So yesterday, some documents came out that absolutely make James Comey and the FBI look disastrously corrupt.

00:51:42.000 I mean, horrifically corrupt.

00:51:44.000 Like, crusading FBI agents, crusading in order to railroad people in the Trump administration early on because they were so convinced, they convinced themselves, that Trump was actually a Russian's cat's paw, and they were going to do anything they needed in order to flip people.

00:51:57.000 They're going to do anything they needed in order to prosecute people surrounding Trump so that they could come up with the evidence that surely must be around the next corner.

00:52:04.000 So according to Jerry Dunleavy writing at the Washington Examiner, top FBI officials discussed the possibility of prosecuting retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn for lying to the FBI about his contacts with the Russians as agents planned how to conduct their interview of the Trump National Security Advisor, newly unsealed notes show.

00:52:19.000 The records.

00:52:21.000 Unsealed through a consent agreement by Flynn's lawyers and the Justice Department show an email from then-FBI Special Agent Peter Strzok to then-FBI General Counsel James Baker with advice for then-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe for his call with Flynn on January 24, 2017.

00:52:35.000 That is the same day that Flynn was interviewed by Strzok and another FBI agent believed to be Joseph Piedenska.

00:52:41.000 The documents also include an email from the day before that then-FBI lawyer Lisa Page sent to Strzok and a member of the FBI's Office of General Counsel whose name is redacted about the federal statute against false statements.

00:52:53.000 Additionally, a page of handwritten notes from an FBI official whose identity has not been disclosed to the public was released dated the day of Flynn's FBI interview.

00:53:00.000 Now remember, A lot of these people have had serious honesty problems.

00:53:04.000 Andrew McCabe was fired for having lied to the FBI about contacts with outside media outlets.

00:53:09.000 He lost his pension.

00:53:10.000 Peter Strzok was involved in this affair with Lisa Page, and they're writing each other emails about how exactly to question Michael Flynn.

00:53:17.000 He is the person, Peter Strzok, who's telling Lisa Page back during the election that they had insurance against Trump winning.

00:53:24.000 The author of the notes was previously speculated to be Baker, but on Wednesday it was reported the notes belonged to the FBI's head of counterintelligence, Bill Priestap, who led the Crossfire Hurricane investigation.

00:53:33.000 The notes show the FBI official wondering whether the goal of the Flynn interview was to get Flynn to tell the truth, or to catch him in a lie so he could be charged with a crime or removed from his position.

00:53:42.000 Um, what?

00:53:44.000 What now?

00:53:45.000 So they're literally saying in the actual notes, in the actual notes, it says, what is our goal?

00:53:51.000 Truth admission or to get him out to lie so we can prosecute him or get him fired?

00:53:57.000 Uh, what now?

00:53:58.000 So you're literally setting up a perjury trap.

00:54:01.000 This is the definition of a perjury trap, right?

00:54:03.000 You are literally attempting to get him to lie.

00:54:05.000 You want him to lie so you can prosecute him.

00:54:08.000 And this is exactly what happened because here's the thing.

00:54:10.000 Michael Flynn, for all of his foibles, for all of his ridiculousness with RT and Turkey and all the rest of it.

00:54:15.000 Michael Flynn did not commit a crime when as incoming national security advisor, he talked with the Russians.

00:54:20.000 That is not a crime.

00:54:21.000 It did not violate the Logan Act.

00:54:22.000 It is not a crime in any way, shape or form.

00:54:25.000 The only crime Michael Flynn allegedly committed is that he lied to the FBI.

00:54:29.000 But now it appears that the FBI was specifically designing its questions to get him to lie.

00:54:33.000 That was their intent.

00:54:34.000 They wanted him to lie.

00:54:35.000 Why?

00:54:36.000 So they could flip him, they could threaten him with perjury charges, and then they could get him to flip on Trump.

00:54:41.000 That's what this appears to be.

00:54:43.000 Flynn right now is fighting to dismiss the government's case against him.

00:54:45.000 He pled guilty in December 2017 to lying to investigators about conversations with Russian diplomat Sergei Kislyak about sanctions on Russia and a UN resolution on Israel.

00:54:54.000 The FBI had intercepted Flynn's discussions with the Russian and then grilled him on the contents of the conversation.

00:54:59.000 Now again, the FBI should have to explain, really, why exactly they were intercepting those conversations.

00:55:06.000 Now they can say we were monitoring the Russians, but again, there's nothing wrong with Michael Flynn talking with the Russians when he's the incoming NSA.

00:55:13.000 In January, he told the court he was innocent of this crime.

00:55:16.000 He filed to withdraw his guilty plea after the DOJ asked the judge to sentence Flynn to up to six months in prison, though afterward the department said probation would be appropriate.

00:55:24.000 Flynn tweeted out a short video showing an American flag flapping in the wind after all of this came out.

00:55:29.000 The FBI official wrote, we have a case with Flynn and Russians, and our goal is to determine if Mike Flynn is going to tell the truth about his relationship with the Russians.

00:55:38.000 Beneath another column labeled afterwards, the FBI official lists a number of thoughts about the impending Flynn interview that day.

00:55:43.000 I agreed yesterday, he wrote, that we shouldn't show Flynn redacted if he didn't admit it.

00:55:47.000 When I thought about it last night, I believe we should rethink this.

00:55:50.000 What is our goal?

00:55:50.000 Truth and mission?

00:55:51.000 Or get him to lie so we can prosecute him?

00:55:53.000 Or get him fired?

00:55:55.000 The FBI official stated we regularly show subjects evidence with the goal of getting them to admit their wrongdoing.

00:55:59.000 I don't see how getting someone to admit their wrongdoing is going easy on him.

00:56:02.000 The FBI official also suggested if we get him to admit to breaking the Logan Act, which he did not break, give facts to DOJ and have them decide, or if initially lies, we present him blank and he admits it, documents for DOJ, and let them decide how to address it.

00:56:16.000 The FBI said if we're seen as playing games, White House will be furious.

00:56:21.000 The list ended with a bullet point that said, protect our institution by not playing games.

00:56:25.000 Isn't it the definition of playing a game when the person did not commit an underlying crime or make it or tell a lie that is, or told a lie that is irrelevant to an actual underlying crime, and then you try to prosecute him so you can get him to flip on Trump and people surrounding Trump?

00:56:40.000 Pretty astonishing stuff.

00:56:42.000 I mean, really pretty amazing.

00:56:43.000 The newly public email from Page to the FBI General Counsel's office in Destruct had the subject line question regarding 1001.

00:56:49.000 That's a reference to 18 U.S. Code 1001, the U.S. federal statute against making false statements to which federal law enforcement officers later used to get Flynn to plead guilty.

00:56:59.000 Lisa Page asked, I have a question.

00:57:02.000 Could the admonition regarding 101 be given at the beginning of the interview?

00:57:05.000 Or does it have to come following a statement which agents believe to be false?

00:57:09.000 I feel bad I don't know this.

00:57:10.000 I don't remember ever having to do this.

00:57:11.000 Plus, I've only charged it once in the context of lying to a federal probation officer.

00:57:15.000 Page noted it could be given at the beginning of their discussion with Flynn.

00:57:18.000 It would be an easy way to casually slip that in.

00:57:21.000 As, of course, you know, sir, federal law makes it a crime too.

00:57:27.000 It is pretty incredible.

00:57:28.000 Andrew McCarthy, the conservative commentator, former federal prosecutor from National Review, wrote earlier this week there was no good faith basis for an investigation into General Flynn because under federal law, a false statement made to investigators is not actionable unless it is material.

00:57:42.000 Judge Emmett Sullivan, the federal judge presiding over retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn's case, issued an order on Tuesday telling the former National Security Advisor's previous attorneys to re-execute a search of every document and communication pertaining to the firm's representation of Mr. Flynn after it was revealed they failed to turn over thousands of documents to Flynn's new defense team.

00:58:00.000 They just lost a bunch of documents to the federal government and didn't turn it over to Flynn's defense team.

00:58:04.000 All of this looks deeply, deeply suspicious.

00:58:07.000 Flynn's defense lawyers also said on Friday they found further evidence of misconduct by a former Robert Mueller prosecutor, Brandon Van Graak, claiming he made baseless threats to incite Flynn.

00:58:17.000 Apparently, what actually happened here is that at a certain point, Flynn was not prosecuted, remember, for a little while after this, and Flynn I mean, ugly.

00:58:26.000 brought to to heal by robert muller's team apparently robert muller's team went to him and said if we do not if you do not plead guilty to this or if you do not testify or give us information we're going to prosecute your kid i mean ugly ugly stuff ugly ugly stuff But, you know, the fact that the FBI was engaged in this sort of thing, not good news for James Comey, a man of rectitude above all questions about the law.

00:58:53.000 Lindsey Graham says, the senator from South Carolina, Flynn was obviously the victim of an out-of-control DOJ here.

00:58:59.000 It's pretty apparent to me that General Flynn was a victim of an out-of-control Department of Justice.

00:59:05.000 He basically got railroaded.

00:59:07.000 It is pretty widely known that the Obama administration didn't have much use for General Flynn.

00:59:12.000 So Attorney General Barr needs to be complimented.

00:59:16.000 He's doing the right thing.

00:59:17.000 He has three goals that I share.

00:59:20.000 Restore trust.

00:59:22.000 Hold people accountable who have engaged in misconduct and right wrongs like General Flynn and I believe eventually Papadopoulos.

00:59:32.000 So what is going to happen here is that Attorney General William Barr is looking into this.

00:59:36.000 There's a possibility that the government drops its case against Flynn entirely.

00:59:41.000 We'll see where this goes.

00:59:43.000 But look, Flynn lied about the communications, but the underlying communications were not illegal.

00:59:50.000 This is a point Andrew McCarthy has made.

00:59:51.000 It continues to be true. 0.97

00:59:53.000 What's hilarious is that the same people who have ripped into the FBI over and over and over and over for being beyond their capacity are now defending the FBI, engaging in this sort of game-playing as soon as it is directed against somebody who supposedly was going to turn on President Trump.

01:00:05.000 So that is where we currently stand.

01:00:07.000 It is a good reminder, by the way.

01:00:09.000 It is a good reminder that when you give the government the power of compulsion, People are very likely to misuse it or be corrupt in the ways that they use that sort of power.

01:00:16.000 So, it's a libertarian moment for everybody regarding the FBI.

01:00:21.000 Alrighty, we'll be back here later today with two hours of additional content.

01:00:24.000 Otherwise, we'll see you here tomorrow.

01:00:25.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.

01:00:25.000 This is The Ben Shapiro Show.

01:00:31.000 The Ben Shapiro Show is produced by Colton Haas.

01:00:33.000 Directed by Mike Joyner.

01:00:34.000 Executive producer Jeremy Boring.

01:00:36.000 Supervising producer Mathis Glover and Robert Sterling.

01:00:39.000 Assistant director Pavel Lydowsky.

01:00:41.000 Technical producer Austin Stevens.

01:00:42.000 Playback and media operated by Nick Sheehan.

01:00:45.000 Associate producer Katie Swinnerton.

01:00:47.000 Edited by Adam Sajovic.

01:00:48.000 Audio is mixed by Mike Koromina.

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01:00:56.000 Hey everybody, it's Andrew Klavan, host of The Andrew Klavan Show.

01:00:59.000 You know, some people are depressed because the American Republic is collapsing, the end of days is approaching, and the moon has turned to blood.

01:01:06.000 But on The Andrew Klavan Show, that's where the fun just gets started.

The Ben Shapiro Show - April 30, 2020

The Moving Lockdown Goalposts | Ep. 1001

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