The Ben Shapiro Show - Trump-Zelenskyy Meeting GOES TOTALLY NUCLEAR

00:00:00.000 Got a ton coming up for you on today's show.

00:00:02.000 It is a mega show today.

00:00:03.000 President Trump throws Vladimir Zelensky, the leader of Ukraine, out of the White House after a nuclear meltdown of a press conference.

00:00:09.000 The rest of the world reacts, and we examine whether there is a new Trump doctrine or whether Zelensky simply blew it.

00:00:15.000 We'll get to all that.

00:00:15.000 First, tomorrow night, Daily Wire backstage returns live for President Donald Trump's address to Congress.

00:00:19.000 We are covering it all.

00:00:21.000 Do not miss the exclusive pre-show at 8.30 p.m.

00:00:23.000 Eastern, followed by the full address completely uninterrupted.

00:00:25.000 And when he's done, we're back with a breakdown of what it all means.

00:00:28.000 Watch with us tomorrow night at Daily Wire Plus.

00:00:31.000 Okay, so before I get to the actual nuclear meltdown of a press conference, and we're going to go through the whole press conference, because I think that it is a disservice to all involved for us to simply focus on the moment where everything went south.

00:00:48.000 This is a long press conference.

00:00:49.000 It was a nearly 50-minute press conference, and I want to go through everything that led up to the press conference because it sort of explains where everybody is.

00:00:58.000 President Trump.

00:00:59.000 Vice President Vance, Vladimir Zelensky, the President of Ukraine, and how we got to the nuclear meltdown.

00:01:04.000 I want to remind you what a wise man wrote in October of 2022.

00:01:09.000 Quote, Henry Kissinger has been publicly excoriated for suggesting that the off ramp to this conflict will be territorial concessions by Ukraine to Russia.

00:01:16.000 A repeat of the Moscow peace treaty that was signed after the Soviet invasion of Finland in 1941.

00:01:22.000 But he may be correct, particularly if the West is unwilling to bear the full economic and military cost of a larger war with Russia.

00:01:28.000 In the end, it may be that the least bad scenario is about simply preventing the worst case scenario.

00:01:34.000 That wise man, of course, was yours truly.

00:01:37.000 That has been the clear off-ramp.

00:01:52.000 For legitimately almost three years at this point.

00:01:55.000 And so my view when it comes to the war in Ukraine is whatever gets us to that durable off-ramp is good.

00:02:00.000 And whatever gets in the way of that durable off-ramp is bad.

00:02:03.000 That's all.

00:02:04.000 By the way, that also happens to be the policy of the Trump administration, which is seeking an off-ramp that would, in fact, not allow Vladimir Putin to waltz into Kiev, but also acknowledges that the likelihood of Ukraine winning back Donbass and Crimea is basically zero and has been since 2014. So that was the predicate to the big meeting that was supposed to happen on Friday.

00:02:25.000 So on Friday, President of Ukraine, Vladimir Zelensky, was supposed to arrive in the United States and go to the White House, and he was supposed to sign a minerals deal.

00:02:32.000 Now, there was an immediate conflict between what both parties wanted from this.

00:02:37.000 President Trump, he wanted the minerals deal because, number one, he believes that the United States ought to be repaid for its investment in other countries.

00:02:44.000 This has been a long-standing belief of President Trump's that...

00:02:48.000 When we get involved in foreign policy, there ought to be sort of a clear return to the United States, whether we're talking about defending Kuwait from Saddam Hussein or whether we're talking about paying to defend Ukraine from Russia. 0.79

00:02:58.000 There should be some sort of return to the American taxpayer.

00:03:00.000 Otherwise, in President Trump's beliefs, we are getting screwed.

00:03:03.000 That has been a longstanding Trumpian position. 0.61

00:03:05.000 But there is something else going on here.

00:03:06.000 And this was made clear during the press conference.

00:03:09.000 President Trump always saw the economic minerals deal as a sort of foot in the door to prevent a Russian invasion.

00:03:16.000 Because if the United States has workers in Ukraine who are, for example, mining rare earth minerals, and then the Russians invade, the United States is immediately dragged in.

00:03:27.000 And President Trump is not wrong about this.

00:03:29.000 In fact, for centuries, this has been a Western way of making war, is that if there is, in fact, the British East India Company that gets involved in trade in a far-flung place, and then they are attacked by the local government, that does actually dredge up.

00:03:45.000 The problem of perhaps the British Empire getting directly militarily involved, and so you don't want to screw with the British East India Company.

00:03:50.000 That is almost how President Trump is seeing the rare earth minerals deal.

00:03:55.000 That is what he's doing right there.

00:03:57.000 Meanwhile, Zelensky is saying, I can't go back to my people and say that I signed a minerals deal or anything else without security guarantees.

00:04:04.000 If the final settlement does not involve actual explicit security guarantees, I can't actually go back to my people.

00:04:11.000 Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I've also been suggesting for years that the United States might have to go over Zelensky's head in order to negotiate the end of this war and then cram it down on him.

00:04:19.000 They might have to, the United States, might have to go to Russia and say, listen, we know the outline of the deal.

00:04:24.000 You may not like it.

00:04:25.000 We may not like it.

00:04:26.000 Zelensky may not like it.

00:04:27.000 But, again, outline of the deal, Donbass and Crimea remain in Russian hands.

00:04:30.000 There are, in fact, security guarantees to the Ukrainians, and that's the best it's going to get. 0.96

00:04:35.000 Okay, so, entering this meeting, all President Trump wanted was a grip and grin.

00:04:39.000 All he wanted was for Zelensky to show up and Trump would shake his hand and there would be a sort of implicit understanding that almost became explicit during this meeting.

00:04:47.000 That the rare earth minerals deal was a sort of trigger force for the United States providing security guarantees.

00:04:54.000 And Trump comes very close to saying that several times in the actual meeting.

00:04:57.000 Zelensky comes in with another agenda.

00:04:59.000 And as we'll see, it's probably because he was prepped by Democrats, apparently.

00:05:02.000 He comes in and he wants President Trump in the room.

00:05:07.000 To say that he is going to give a security guarantee, a thing that President Trump does not want to do.

00:05:12.000 Because again, from President Trump's perspective, the United States should not have to provide that security guarantee.

00:05:17.000 Basically, Europe should have to provide that security guarantee.

00:05:19.000 So that is the setup right here.

00:05:21.000 Now, beyond that, there's personal dislike between these two leaders.

00:05:24.000 So Vladimir Zelensky does not like President Trump.

00:05:27.000 He's angry at President Trump.

00:05:29.000 He believes that President Trump and Vice President Vance do not like him.

00:05:32.000 That they've said nasty things about him, which is true.

00:05:34.000 That they have said things that are untrue about the Ukraine-Russia war in terms of casting moral aspersions at Ukraine that are unearned while going easy on Vladimir Putin.

00:05:41.000 There's a case to be made that that's true as well.

00:05:43.000 The Trump Vance case is Zelensky is being intransigent because he wants my moral condemnation, but moral condemnation don't get the job done.

00:05:50.000 The thing that gets the job done is whatever gets us to that off-ramp.

00:05:53.000 So if that means that we have to sort of massage Putin in public relations in order to get him to the table, then we'll do that.

00:06:00.000 That is another one of these conflicts that's happening.

00:06:02.000 And, by the way, Vladimir Zelensky, people forget this because, of course, he's been a very famous world leader since the outbreak of the 2022 war.

00:06:09.000 Zelensky was an actor.

00:06:10.000 He's an egomaniac.

00:06:11.000 Zelensky likes being on camera.

00:06:13.000 He made his money on camera.

00:06:15.000 There's all sorts of footage of him wandering around the internet when he was a comedian doing bizarre things, body humor kind of stuff.

00:06:21.000 That's who Zelensky is.

00:06:23.000 He's quite performative, like very performative.

00:06:25.000 And guess what?

00:06:25.000 So is President Trump.

00:06:26.000 And so, as it turns out, is Vice President Vance.

00:06:28.000 So that's the setup.

00:06:29.000 The powder keg is right there.

00:06:31.000 Now, it didn't have to go sideways.

00:06:33.000 It didn't.

00:06:33.000 Zelensky could have come in, could have done the gripping grin, could have gotten the win, could have walked out, and that would have been enough.

00:06:40.000 But Zelensky really blows it.

00:06:41.000 I mean, he really, really blows it here.

00:06:44.000 I will say, of the three people in the room, the adult in the room is Trump.

00:06:48.000 By far, it's not close.

00:06:50.000 Zelensky comes in.

00:06:51.000 He's very aggressive.

00:06:53.000 He is, in fact, rude to President Trump.

00:06:56.000 He's a little rude to J.D. Vance.

00:06:58.000 J.D. Vance.

00:07:00.000 I do not think acquits himself well in this particular exchange.

00:07:03.000 I know there are people on the right who think that J.D. Vance handled himself beautifully here.

00:07:06.000 I think that J.D. Vance actually threw a couple of hand grenades into the middle of the conversation because there may in fact be some foreign policy differences between Vance's view of the United States in the world and Trump's view of the United States in the world.

00:07:18.000 That may be emerging.

00:07:18.000 It's kind of an interesting conversation.

00:07:20.000 We'll save for a little later in the show.

00:07:21.000 What are the ramifications of all of this?

00:07:23.000 Which direction does the world go after this blow up of a meeting?

00:07:27.000 Okay, now I want to get into the actual meeting.

00:07:28.000 So as you can see, the interpersonal dynamics are already set from the very beginning for things to be pretty contentious.

00:07:35.000 When Vladimir Zelensky shows up at the White House, he is wearing a sort of military jumpsuit.

00:07:42.000 And now this has been a sort of bugaboo for many people on the right for a long time.

00:07:46.000 Zelensky wears what Trump has called a costume.

00:07:50.000 Why does he wear a suit?

00:07:51.000 Now, would it have behooved Zelensky to wear a suit for Trump?

00:07:54.000 Absolutely.

00:07:55.000 What's the downside?

00:07:57.000 I understand that Zelensky is trying to keep his country's spirits up, but it seems to me that if he had shown up in a suit, had a great meeting with Trump and walked out, that would have been a pretty good boost for the Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines.

00:08:07.000 Is it really more important that he shows up in the jumpsuit as some sort of, you know, slap in the face at Trump?

00:08:12.000 Again, this setup leads one to believe that one of the things that Zelensky is doing here is he is recognizing tacitly that the United States is out of the Ukraine business and what he's actually trying to do, perhaps strategically, is blow up the meeting in order to get the EU To step in and try and provide some sort of aid that the United States is unwilling to provide.

00:08:29.000 If that's the case, then Zelensky actually got something that he wanted out of this whole situation.

00:08:32.000 But you can see right from the get-go, there's some antagonism right at the outset.

00:08:36.000 He's all dressed up today.

00:08:45.000 Okay, he's all dressed up today.

00:08:49.000 And Zelensky, you can see, is a little bit ticked off.

00:08:52.000 Obviously, there's a huge size differential.

00:08:54.000 Zelensky is not a big man, and Trump is a very large human being.

00:08:57.000 And then they finally sit down, and they have this conversation.

00:09:03.000 So again, we're going to go through this in detail because this is, I think, one of the most fascinating and probably historic conversations we have ever seen publicly between a president of the United States and a foreign leader.

00:09:13.000 And we should recognize that conversations like this have wide-ranging ramifications in terms of future policy.

00:09:20.000 For example, The Iraq War was largely begun.

00:09:24.000 The original Iraq War, the Gulf War, might have started because of a stray comment from a low-level State Department staffer who sort of implied that if Saddam Hussein had walked into Kuwait, the United States might not actually do anything about it.

00:09:40.000 And so her name was April Glaspy.

00:09:43.000 And the State Department had told Saddam Hussein that Washington had no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait.

00:09:48.000 And at that point, Saddam took that seriously and he walked into Kuwait. 0.87

00:09:52.000 So, stray comments, certainly big blowups like this, can have some pretty radical ramifications for how foreign policy is conducted.

00:09:59.000 In the same way that the Russian invasion of Ukraine probably has to do with the United States pulling out of Afghanistan ignominiously, in disgrace.

00:10:09.000 In the same way, comments that are made on the public stage can have extraordinarily powerful ramifications for the future of foreign policy.

00:10:15.000 That's why we're going to go through this.

00:10:16.000 In such detail.

00:10:17.000 All of us could have pretty radical ramifications for Ukraine, for the United States as well.

00:10:22.000 We'll get into that.

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00:12:23.000 So, when this starts, President Trump is actually quite warm to Vladimir Zelensky.

00:12:27.000 Here he was, he's right at the outset.

00:12:30.000 Thank you very much.

00:12:31.000 It's an honor to have President Zelensky of Ukraine.

00:12:35.000 And we've been working very hard, very close.

00:12:38.000 So we've actually known each other for a long time.

00:12:40.000 We've been dealing with each other for a long time and very well.

00:12:44.000 We had a little negotiation spat, but that worked out great, I think, for both countries.

00:12:50.000 I think for the world, actually, beyond both countries.

00:12:53.000 And we have something that is a very fair deal.

00:12:58.000 And we look forward to getting in and digging, digging, digging and working and getting some of the rare earth.

00:13:05.000 But it means we're going to be inside, and it's a big commitment from the United States, and we appreciate working with you very much.

00:13:13.000 And we will continue to do that.

00:13:15.000 We have had some very good discussions with Russia.

00:13:19.000 I spoke with President Putin, and we're going to try and bring this to a close.

00:13:24.000 It's something that you want and that he wants.

00:13:26.000 We have to negotiate a deal.

00:13:27.000 But we've started the confines of a deal, and I think something can happen.

00:13:34.000 So you can see from Zelensky's body language, he's immediately on his guard.

00:13:37.000 He's already very nervous.

00:13:40.000 He's clearly not liking what he's hearing from Trump.

00:13:42.000 But what Trump is saying here is extremely good for Zelensky.

00:13:46.000 Zelensky came in oriented against Trump from the beginning.

00:13:48.000 And you can see what Trump is saying here is he's looking for some sort of win.

00:13:53.000 That's all.

00:13:53.000 He says right from the beginning.

00:13:55.000 We had a negotiation spat, but that worked out great.

00:13:58.000 And we're looking forward to getting in and digging, digging, digging, working, getting some of the rare earth.

00:14:02.000 But it means we're going to be inside, and it's a big commitment from the United States.

00:14:05.000 What is he saying there?

00:14:06.000 What President Trump is saying there is, we look forward to getting boots on the ground digging things, and once we're there, it's sort of a tacit security guarantee.

00:14:14.000 Now Zelensky comes out firing.

00:14:16.000 Zelensky comes out, and he's like, I want a security guarantee in the room.

00:14:18.000 Okay, which again, you understand why he wants it.

00:14:23.000 He is the president of Ukraine.

00:14:25.000 He does not want another negotiation that ends with, in two years, the Russians coming back in. 0.94

00:14:30.000 However, these are negotiations that you save for the back room.

00:14:33.000 This is not stuff that you do in the front room.

00:14:35.000 Why is he negotiating in the room with President Trump?

00:14:38.000 Trump isn't rejecting a security guarantee outright here.

00:14:40.000 Trump has said nothing about a security guarantee.

00:14:42.000 It's Zelensky, who starts pushing him right out the gate.

00:14:45.000 Thank you so much, Mr. President.

00:14:47.000 Thank you for your invitation.

00:14:49.000 And really, I hope that this...

00:14:53.000 The first document will be the first step to real security guarantees for Ukraine, our people, our children.

00:15:00.000 I really count on it.

00:15:01.000 And, of course, we count that America will not stop support.

00:15:05.000 Really, for us, it's very important to support and to continue.

00:15:09.000 I want to discuss it with details further during our conversation and, of course, the infrastructure of security guarantees.

00:15:17.000 Because for today, I understand what Europe is ready to do.

00:15:21.000 And of course, I want to discuss with you what the United States will be ready to do.

00:15:26.000 And I really count on your strong position to stop Putin.

00:15:30.000 And you said that enough with the war.

00:15:33.000 I think that is very important, Ben, to say these words to Putin at the very beginning. 0.99

00:15:38.000 At the very beginning of the war, because he is a killer and terrorist. 0.75

00:15:42.000 But I hope that together we can stop him.

00:15:44.000 But for us, it's very important to, you know, to save our country, our values, our freedom, the democracy.

00:15:52.000 And of course, no compromises with the killer about our territories.

00:15:58.000 But it will be later.

00:15:59.000 Okay, now, here's the thing.

00:16:02.000 Trump could blow up at him at this point, but you're two minutes deep into the meeting.

00:16:05.000 So what does Trump do?

00:16:06.000 Like an adult, President Trump sits there, he listens to Zelensky, and he doesn't blow it up.

00:16:11.000 He understands what Zelensky is saying.

00:16:13.000 Zelensky is saying, I don't want to make any compromises. 1.00

00:16:15.000 Putin's a killer. 0.97

00:16:16.000 I want security guarantees. 0.99

00:16:17.000 I want to work the Europeans into this. 1.00

00:16:18.000 He's having a negotiation in the room in front of the press.

00:16:21.000 So Zelensky is the one who starts this whole thing.

00:16:22.000 And for 40 minutes, Trump allows him to do it.

00:16:25.000 Why?

00:16:25.000 Because that's what an adult does.

00:16:27.000 What an adult does is he says, listen, I understand that you've got to rant for the cameras.

00:16:31.000 You've got to do your thing for the cameras.

00:16:32.000 I get it.

00:16:32.000 I totally get it.

00:16:33.000 And in the back room, we're going to negotiate what this actually looks like.

00:16:37.000 And listen to how sober President Trump is here.

00:16:40.000 I mean, it is an amazing thing.

00:16:41.000 For the guy who's supposed to be the one flying off the handle, in this meeting, it is not Trump who flies off the handle.

00:16:46.000 It is Zelensky and then Vance who flies off the handle.

00:16:48.000 So here is President Trump.

00:16:51.000 I think once we make the agreement, that's going to be 95% of it.

00:16:55.000 They're not going to go back to fighting.

00:16:57.000 I've spoken with President Putin, and I think, I mean, I feel very strong.

00:17:02.000 I've known him for a long time, and I feel very strongly that they're very serious about it.

00:17:08.000 And we'll make a deal.

00:17:10.000 And when the deal is made, I don't think...

00:17:11.000 We talk about security.

00:17:13.000 Everyone's talking about the other day.

00:17:14.000 All they talked about was security.

00:17:15.000 I said, let me make the deal first.

00:17:17.000 I have to make the deal first.

00:17:20.000 Okay, so what is he saying?

00:17:22.000 Again, he's saying the same thing.

00:17:23.000 When it comes to the economy, he's going to make the deal first.

00:17:26.000 And that is going to be the lever that allows for security guarantees.

00:17:29.000 Right?

00:17:30.000 That is what he is saying.

00:17:32.000 Okay, this continues.

00:17:34.000 This clip five.

00:17:35.000 So a reporter asks Zelensky if he feels like the United States is on the side of Ukraine at the moment.

00:17:42.000 And President Trump's like, what are you even asking that for?

00:17:44.000 I mean, clearly we are.

00:17:45.000 I'm here with him.

00:17:46.000 I'm signing a Rare Earths Minerals agreement with him, like right now.

00:17:52.000 Do you feel like the U.S. is on your side, that the President Trump is on your side at this moment?

00:18:03.000 What do you think?

00:18:04.000 He wants to know, do you think that... 1.00

00:18:07.000 Sort of a stupid question. 1.00

00:18:08.000 I guess we wouldn't be here if I wasn't. 0.99

00:18:12.000 I think that the United States on our side from the very beginning of occupation.

00:18:19.000 And I think that President Trump on our side.

00:18:23.000 And of course, I'm sure that the United States president will not stop support.

00:18:30.000 This is crucial for us.

00:18:33.000 Okay, so again, that's Zelensky pushing.

00:18:35.000 So Trump says, of course, we're going to sign an agreement.

00:18:38.000 All Trump wants from this meeting is to get out of there with the rare earth minerals deal that is going to provide the lever for a broader American commitment or tacit American commitment to the security of Ukraine.

00:18:49.000 That's what this is.

00:18:50.000 And Zelensky keeps pushing because he feels like publicly he needs to push.

00:18:53.000 I don't know if he thought that he was going to get Trump to cave in the room or something, or if this is all virtue signaling for the cameras, or if he feels he needs to say this for his own people at home.

00:19:01.000 Or if this was all a sort of design to blow up the meeting in order to get the Europeans to step in.

00:19:06.000 I'm not sure what Zelensky's strategy here was.

00:19:08.000 All I know, it's a very, very bad strategy.

00:19:10.000 So, President Trump, again, being very sober about all of this.

00:19:13.000 And for all the talk about how Trump was the one who was combative in this, he really was not.

00:19:18.000 For 40 minutes, he sat there while Zelensky effectively attempted to negotiate a deal in the room.

00:19:24.000 And here is President Trump talking about compromise.

00:19:27.000 I think you're going to have to always make compromises.

00:19:30.000 You can't do any deals without compromises.

00:19:32.000 So certainly he's going to have to make some compromises.

00:19:35.000 But hopefully they won't be as big as some people think you're going to have to make.

00:19:39.000 That's all.

00:19:40.000 It's all we can do.

00:19:41.000 I'm here as an arbitrator, as a mediator to a certain extent between two parties that have been very hostile.

00:19:50.000 Now you can see a fundamental difference between Trump and Zelensky here.

00:19:53.000 Zelensky thinks that the United States is full-fledged on the side of Ukraine.

00:19:57.000 In terms of this negotiation, meaning they should, like Biden, just pour in the aid without any sort of end, without any sort of designs to end the war.

00:20:03.000 And Trump says, listen, I got to broker a deal.

00:20:05.000 I want the deal.

00:20:06.000 Now, we'll talk about the ramifications of the meeting and how actually one of the things that the Trump administration might think about doing, and President Trump had said during that campaign, pretty clearly, is say to Vladimir Putin, listen, we want a deal.

00:20:19.000 You know we want a deal.

00:20:20.000 We've been very obvious about how we want a deal.

00:20:23.000 I've been giving you all sorts of props in public.

00:20:25.000 If you don't make a deal, then we're going to ratchet up support because we can't just let you win by default, right?

00:20:30.000 But that's not actually the approach that Trump is taking, and that's arguable.

00:20:33.000 But, again, in the meeting, so far, Trump is the person who's being mature, and Zelensky is the person, as I say over and over again.

00:20:40.000 You can hear him being combative.

00:20:42.000 This is for 40 minutes.

00:20:43.000 Now, one of these sort of hot moments happened when one of the reporters is a guy from One America News Network.

00:20:48.000 I believe this reporter happens to be dating Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congresswoman from Georgia.

00:20:53.000 And asks Zelensky about wearing a suit.

00:20:57.000 Do you ever...

00:20:58.000 Why don't you wear a suit?

00:21:00.000 Why?

00:21:01.000 Why don't you wear a suit?

00:21:02.000 There's a highest level in this country's office and you refuse to wear a suit.

00:21:06.000 Do you own a suit?

00:21:08.000 Yeah, you have problems.

00:21:10.000 A lot of Americans have problems with you.

00:21:12.000 Really?

00:21:13.000 I don't have such...

00:21:14.000 I will wear a costume after this war will finish.

00:21:18.000 Yes, maybe something like yours.

00:21:23.000 Yes, maybe something better.

00:21:25.000 I don't know.

00:21:26.000 We will see.

00:21:27.000 Maybe something cheaper than.

00:21:29.000 Yeah, thank you.

00:21:31.000 Well, there was a sartorial spat inside the Oval Office.

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00:23:39.000 Okay, now.

00:23:40.000 Back to sort of the real issue of the day.

00:23:42.000 President Trump is asked about security agreements.

00:23:44.000 And again, he's saying the thing over and over.

00:23:46.000 He's basically offering Zelensky an off-ramp.

00:23:48.000 Like, here's the rare earth's minerals deal.

00:23:49.000 Let's sign it.

00:23:50.000 We're on side.

00:23:52.000 That is the way we get involved.

00:23:54.000 Here he is.

00:23:55.000 I don't want to talk about security yet because I want to get the deal done.

00:23:59.000 You know, you fall into the same trap like everybody else.

00:24:01.000 A million times you say it over and over.

00:24:03.000 I want to get the deal done.

00:24:05.000 Security is so easy.

00:24:06.000 That's about 2% of the problem.

00:24:09.000 I'm not worried about security.

00:24:10.000 I'm worried about getting the deal done.

00:24:12.000 The security is the easy part.

00:24:14.000 Security is very nice.

00:24:15.000 Everybody stop shooting.

00:24:17.000 And now will Europe put people there?

00:24:19.000 I know France is going to.

00:24:20.000 I know the UK is going to.

00:24:22.000 I know other countries are going to.

00:24:24.000 And they happen to be right next door.

00:24:26.000 We haven't committed, but we could conceivably.

00:24:28.000 You know, we have security in a different form.

00:24:32.000 Okay, he's right there giving Zelensky what he wants.

00:24:34.000 This is where Zelensky should say, okay, great, Mr. President.

00:24:36.000 We'll talk about this behind closed doors.

00:24:38.000 And he doesn't, right?

00:24:39.000 Trump said these words, quote, we haven't committed, but we could conceivably, you know, we have security in a different form.

00:24:46.000 He's giving Zelensky what he wants.

00:24:49.000 He's giving him the excuse, but Zelensky can't take the W. He can't take the W. So Zelensky keeps pushing.

00:24:56.000 Yeah, so please, about security guarantees and about just ceasefire.

00:25:01.000 We can't just speak about ceasefire and speak and speak.

00:25:05.000 It will not work.

00:25:06.000 Justice fire will never work, because I'm like a president.

00:25:10.000 I have this experience, and not only me.

00:25:14.000 Ukraine, before my presidency, from 2014, Putin broke 25 times.

00:25:21.000 25 times he broke his own signature.

00:25:26.000 25 times he broke his fire.

00:25:29.000 Okay, so again, you can see Zelensky is saying that Putin can't be trusted, this is why we need security.

00:25:34.000 And again, I don't think that Zelensky is wrong about this per se, but why is he negotiating all of this?

00:25:38.000 He's not going to get what he wants in the room.

00:25:41.000 So, President Trump is asked about NATO. And again, I think one of the things that the people want to attribute to Trump is that he wants to rewrite all the bargains of the world.

00:25:50.000 And there are people inside the Republican Party who clearly want to do this.

00:25:53.000 But I'm not sure that that is what President Trump wants.

00:25:55.000 There's been a lot of talk about Trump, for example, pulling out of NATO. Some loose talk.

00:25:59.000 Elon Musk suggested that over the weekend.

00:26:01.000 That would be, I think, a terrible move.

00:26:03.000 There's been a lot of talk.

00:26:04.000 About President Trump basically ripping up the idea that America guarantees the freedom of the seas and sort of conceding the Far East to China and all the rest of this kind of stuff.

00:26:12.000 And we'll get into that in a little bit.

00:26:14.000 But here's President Trump projecting that outright.

00:26:16.000 He's asked about NATO. He's asked about Poland.

00:26:18.000 He's asked about the Baltics.

00:26:19.000 And here's what he says.

00:26:21.000 I'm very committed to Poland.

00:26:23.000 I think Poland has really stepped up and done a great job for NATO. As you know, they paid more than they had to.

00:26:30.000 They are one of the finest groups of people I've ever known.

00:26:34.000 I'm very committed to Poland.

00:26:36.000 What about the Baltics?

00:26:37.000 Poland's in a tough neighborhood, you know.

00:26:38.000 What about the Baltics?

00:26:40.000 The Baltics?

00:26:43.000 They got a lot of...

00:26:44.000 It's a tough neighborhood, too.

00:26:46.000 But we're committed.

00:26:47.000 We're going to be very committed.

00:26:49.000 And we're committed to NATO. But NATO has to step up.

00:26:52.000 And the Europeans have to step up more than they have. 0.93

00:26:54.000 And I want to see them equalized.

00:26:56.000 Because they are in for far less than we're in.

00:26:59.000 And they should be at least equal.

00:27:02.000 Okay, so again.

00:27:03.000 This is President Trump actually saying the peace through strength thing, right?

00:27:07.000 We want to be in NATO. Everybody's got to pay their pay up, pay their fair share.

00:27:11.000 Nothing here is radical.

00:27:13.000 Nothing here is particularly polarizing in what President Trump is saying.

00:27:17.000 Okay, and then Zelensky, he continues to push.

00:27:19.000 This is the theme.

00:27:20.000 The theme is that for the first 40 minutes, Zelensky pushes and Trump is pretty passive.

00:27:24.000 Trump does not push back too hard.

00:27:26.000 Here's Zelensky talking about Russia's intentions on the Baltics, on Poland.

00:27:32.000 And by the way, he's not wrong that Russia obviously is revanchist.

00:27:36.000 That Russia would love to split apart NATO by invading, say, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, if NATO weren't there.

00:27:43.000 But Trump just committed to a continued NATO funding in those places.

00:27:47.000 Here's Zelensky.

00:27:49.000 And also, it's about the need.

00:27:51.000 Yes, between, like the president said, you have big, nice ocean.

00:27:57.000 Yes, between us.

00:27:59.000 But if...

00:28:00.000 We will not stay.

00:28:01.000 Russia will go further to Baltics and to Poland, by the way.

00:28:05.000 But first to the Baltics.

00:28:06.000 It's understandable for them.

00:28:08.000 Because they've been in the USSR. You know, they've been one of the republics of the USSR. And Putin wants to bring them back to his empire.

00:28:19.000 It's a fact.

00:28:19.000 And when he will go there, if we will not stay, you will fight.

00:28:23.000 You're American soldiers.

00:28:25.000 It doesn't matter.

00:28:27.000 Do you have auction?

00:28:28.000 Or not, your soldiers will fight.

00:28:32.000 Okay, now President Trump could fire back on him right there.

00:28:34.000 He could say, well, that's not true.

00:28:35.000 You know, why would American soldiers have to fight in the politics?

00:28:38.000 He doesn't fight back on this.

00:28:39.000 Because President Trump is actually not talking about surrendering all of Eastern Europe to Vladimir Putin, like all of his critics claim that he is.

00:28:46.000 And then Trump is asked about why he has not said mean words about Putin.

00:28:50.000 And this is Trump's perspective.

00:28:52.000 If I say mean words about Putin, does that get us to a deal or does it not get us to a deal?

00:28:56.000 Here's President Trump.

00:28:58.000 Well, if I didn't align myself with both of them, you'd never have a deal.

00:29:03.000 You want me to say really terrible things about Putin and then say, hi, Vladimir, how are we doing on the deal?

00:29:10.000 It doesn't work that way.

00:29:11.000 I'm not aligned with Putin.

00:29:13.000 I'm not aligned with anybody.

00:29:14.000 I'm aligned with the United States of America and for the good of the world.

00:29:19.000 I'm aligned with the world.

00:29:20.000 And I want to get this thing over with.

00:29:22.000 You see the hatred he's got for Putin.

00:29:24.000 It's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hatred.

00:29:26.000 He's got tremendous hatred.

00:29:28.000 And I understand that.

00:29:29.000 But I can tell you the other side isn't exactly in love with, you know, him either.

00:29:35.000 So it's not a question of alignment.

00:29:39.000 Again, Trump is just saying, I want to get to a deal.

00:29:41.000 Right?

00:29:42.000 Okay, now the meeting could have ended any time in here.

00:29:45.000 Here's where it started to go sideways.

00:29:46.000 Like really sideways.

00:29:47.000 And again, it's very tense.

00:29:49.000 You can see the tension.

00:29:50.000 Zelensky's tense.

00:29:51.000 He's leaning toward Trump almost aggressively throughout this meeting.

00:29:54.000 Trump's kind of sitting back, kind of taking it like an adult.

00:29:56.000 And the adult in the room was Trump in this meeting.

00:29:59.000 That is the reality.

00:30:00.000 Okay, so J.D. Vance jumps in.

00:30:05.000 So J.D. hasn't said anything this entire time.

00:30:07.000 And the Vice President of the United States is sitting there.

00:30:09.000 Now, in my belief, the Vice President of the United States should have been attempting to facilitate the end of this meeting.

00:30:15.000 Okay, everything that needs to be said has now been said.

00:30:19.000 He should have, and Trump should have, and everybody should, and Zelensky should.

00:30:22.000 It would have been in everybody's interest to say, okay, guys, now we've taken 45 minutes of questions.

00:30:26.000 We're going to go in the back room.

00:30:27.000 We're going to talk, and then we're going to do a signing ceremony.

00:30:29.000 And so here's what happens.

00:30:32.000 Vance decides he needs to jump in, and he needs to defend President Trump.

00:30:36.000 Again, I know this is Vice President Vance's sort of typical role as bulldog for Trump.

00:30:42.000 I get it.

00:30:42.000 That's fine.

00:30:44.000 But it does set off a conflagration.

00:30:46.000 So here is Vance.

00:30:47.000 And again, what he says right here is not particularly controversial.

00:30:53.000 But Zelensky decides that he's going to go after Vance.

00:30:56.000 Now, the reality is that whatever relationship Zelensky has with Trump, his relationship with Vance is terrible.

00:31:02.000 His relationship with Vance is terrible because Vance has openly said he does not care if Russia just eats up Ukraine.

00:31:07.000 Just doesn't care.

00:31:09.000 Because Vance associates with a number of public figures.

00:31:13.000 Who say some of the wildest things about Ukraine it is possible to say and some of the most pro-Putin things it is possible to say.

00:31:18.000 And I'm sure Zelensky knows this.

00:31:19.000 And so Zelensky takes offense, I think, at the fact that he's in the room with Vance.

00:31:23.000 And that's Zelensky's fault.

00:31:23.000 It is.

00:31:25.000 But Vance then escalates.

00:31:26.000 So, you'll see.

00:31:27.000 We're going to break this down.

00:31:28.000 This is the critical clip from the meeting.

00:31:30.000 It's several minutes.

00:31:31.000 We're going to stop and start it so we can analyze what exactly happens here.

00:31:34.000 Here is Vice President Vance jumping in to defend President Trump over the accusation that somehow because...

00:31:40.000 He wants to negotiate an end to the war that this makes him pro-Putin.

00:31:45.000 I would respond to this.

00:31:46.000 So look.

00:31:47.000 For four years in the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country.

00:31:58.000 The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy.

00:32:04.000 We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States' actions.

00:32:15.000 What makes America Can I ask you?

00:32:22.000 Okay, stop it right there for a second.

00:32:23.000 Okay, so, so, what Vance says there is totally inarguable.

00:32:27.000 Okay, the vice president, he doesn't think he's about to get into a fight with Zelensky.

00:32:30.000 Zelensky jumps in and starts fighting with Vance.

00:32:33.000 Again, there's some people who think that Vance set up, I don't think that's right.

00:32:36.000 If you hear what Vice President Vance says right there, not only does he rip on Biden, but he literally says the words.

00:32:43.000 Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country.

00:32:47.000 Now, there's been controversy for two weeks over whether this administration is willing to admit that Putin started the war.

00:32:52.000 That is Vance himself saying that Putin invaded the country and destroyed a large chunk of it.

00:32:56.000 And so this is not Vance attempting to start a firefight.

00:33:00.000 Zelensky jumps in and starts arguing with Vance.

00:33:04.000 And I'm not sure what was going through Zelensky's head right here, honestly.

00:33:07.000 It could be that he was planning some sort of conflagration to get European support.

00:33:11.000 Again, it could be that he's trying to signal to the folks back home.

00:33:13.000 It could be that he just doesn't like J.D. Vance.

00:33:15.000 Okay, but this thing breaks into, like, a wild nuclear meltdown here.

00:33:19.000 Here is Zelensky going after Vance.

00:33:22.000 Sure.

00:33:23.000 Yeah?

00:33:23.000 Yeah.

00:33:24.000 Okay.

00:33:24.000 So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of East and Crimea.

00:33:33.000 So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those times was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump, and God bless, now President Trump will stop him.

00:33:53.000 But during 2014, nobody stopped him.

00:33:56.000 He just occupied and took.

00:33:58.000 He killed people.

00:33:59.000 You know what the contact line?

00:34:00.000 2015. 2014. 2014?

00:34:04.000 I was not here.

00:34:06.000 Yes, but during 2014 till 2022...

00:34:12.000 The situation is the same.

00:34:14.000 People have been dying on the contact line.

00:34:18.000 Nobody stopped him.

00:34:19.000 You know that we had conversations with him.

00:34:22.000 A lot of conversations.

00:34:23.000 My bilateral conversations.

00:34:25.000 And we signed with him, me, like a new president.

00:34:29.000 In 2019, I signed with him the deal.

00:34:32.000 I signed with him, Macron, and Merkel.

00:34:36.000 We signed ceasefire.

00:34:38.000 Ceasefire.

00:34:38.000 All of them told me that he will never go.

00:34:42.000 We signed him a gas contract.

00:34:45.000 Gas contract.

00:34:46.000 Yes, but after that, he broke the ceasefire.

00:34:50.000 He killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners. 0.93

00:34:53.000 We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it.

00:34:57.000 What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about?

00:35:01.000 What do you mean?

00:35:03.000 I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy...

00:35:04.000 Okay, pause it right here.

00:35:06.000 Okay, so, you'll hear Vance's response.

00:35:10.000 So Vance's first sentence in response to Zelensky is the correct response. 0.62

00:35:13.000 And that should have been the end of the meeting.

00:35:14.000 He should have said, you know, President Zelensky, I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that will actually end this war properly.

00:35:19.000 We're going to have these discussions behind closed door.

00:35:22.000 Instead, Vice President Vance takes the opportunity to throw two grenades.

00:35:25.000 One is directed at President Trump and one is directed at Zelensky.

00:35:28.000 The one that is clearly directed at President Trump is that he mentions, as you will see, Zelensky going to Pennsylvania in the final days of the campaign.

00:35:39.000 And walking around Pennsylvania with Josh Shapiro.

00:35:43.000 That is clearly directed at Trump.

00:35:44.000 Okay, the reason he is mentioning that is to piss Trump off.

00:35:47.000 Because that is like a red flag in front of a bull. 0.98

00:35:49.000 If you mention that Zelensky, which again, was an idiot move, a foolish move, I commented on the time, that Zelensky went to Pennsylvania and campaigned with Josh Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania, who was campaigning for Kamala Harris in the last stages of the campaign. 0.97

00:36:03.000 If you mention that in front of Trump, Trump is going to get enraged. 0.97

00:36:06.000 He's also going to get enraged because Vance...

00:36:09.000 He says out loud what Trump has probably been thinking.

00:36:11.000 Trump's like, I've been contained this whole time.

00:36:12.000 And Vance says, you're being really, really disrespectful.

00:36:14.000 Okay, if you say to Trump, this man is being disrespectful and loved Joe Biden, that is like a red flag in front of a bull.

00:36:20.000 Meanwhile, he then says to Zelensky a thing that no leader can sit there and hear, which is, you're losing the war.

00:36:26.000 You're having to forcibly conscript people, right?

00:36:29.000 Which is an accusation about, you know, the inhumanity of the Ukrainian regime that, frankly, Vance didn't use with regard to, say, Vladimir Putin.

00:36:38.000 Who has kidnapped apparently tens of thousands of Ukrainian children and then taken them back to Russia for russification and all of this?

00:36:44.000 So you can hear.

00:36:45.000 This is the part.

00:36:46.000 So Zelensky started it.

00:36:47.000 And then J.D. just pours the fuel on the fire, like really pours the fuel on the fire.

00:36:52.000 Here we go.

00:36:53.000 I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

00:36:57.000 Yes, but if you are not strong...

00:36:58.000 Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.

00:37:04.000 Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems.

00:37:11.000 You should be thanking the President for trying to bring it into this conflict.

00:37:14.000 Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

00:37:17.000 I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President.

00:37:28.000 Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military?

00:37:32.000 And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

00:37:41.000 A lot of questions.

00:37:43.000 Let's start from the beginning.

00:37:44.000 First of all, during the war, Everybody has problems.

00:37:48.000 Even you.

00:37:49.000 But you have nice ocean.

00:37:51.000 And don't feel now.

00:37:52.000 But you will feel it in the future.

00:37:55.000 God bless.

00:37:55.000 You don't know that.

00:37:56.000 God bless.

00:37:57.000 You will not have a war.

00:37:59.000 Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

00:38:00.000 We're trying to solve a problem.

00:38:02.000 Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

00:38:04.000 I'm not telling you.

00:38:05.000 Because you're in no position to dictate that.

00:38:07.000 Remember this.

00:38:08.000 You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

00:38:12.000 We're going to feel very good.

00:38:14.000 We're going to feel very good and very strong.

00:38:18.000 You're right now not in a very good position.

00:38:20.000 You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position and he happens to be right about it.

00:38:26.000 You're not in a good position.

00:38:28.000 You don't have the cards right now.

00:38:30.000 With us, you start having cards.

00:38:32.000 I'm not playing cards.

00:38:32.000 I'm very serious, Mr. President.

00:38:35.000 I'm very serious.

00:38:36.000 You're gambling with the lives of millions of people.

00:38:39.000 You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country.

00:38:49.000 It's back to you.

00:38:51.000 Far more than a lot of people said they should have.

00:38:54.000 Have you said thank you once?

00:38:55.000 A lot of times.

00:38:56.000 Even today.

00:38:58.000 Even today.

00:38:59.000 You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October.

00:39:03.000 Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.

00:39:11.000 Please, you think that...

00:39:13.000 If you will speak very loudly about the war...

00:39:16.000 He's not speaking loudly.

00:39:17.000 He's not speaking loudly.

00:39:18.000 Your country is in big trouble.

00:39:20.000 Can I answer?

00:39:21.000 No, no.

00:39:21.000 You've done a lot of talking.

00:39:23.000 Your country is in big trouble.

00:39:25.000 I know.

00:39:25.000 You're not winning.

00:39:26.000 You're not winning this. 0.94

00:39:28.000 You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us. 0.86

00:39:31.000 Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. 0.94

00:39:36.000 We've been alone.

00:39:37.000 And we are thankful.

00:39:38.000 I said thanks in this cabinet.

00:39:40.000 You haven't been alone. 1.00

00:39:41.000 We gave you, through this stupid president, $350 billion. 1.00

00:39:45.000 We gave you military equipment. 1.00

00:39:48.000 And you men are brave, but they had to use our military.

00:39:51.000 If you didn't have our military equipment, if you didn't have our military equipment, This war would have been over in two weeks.

00:39:59.000 In three days.

00:40:00.000 I heard it from Putin.

00:40:01.000 In three days.

00:40:02.000 This is something new.

00:40:03.000 Maybe less.

00:40:04.000 In two weeks.

00:40:05.000 Of course, yes.

00:40:05.000 It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you.

00:40:09.000 Can you just say thank you?

00:40:10.000 I said a lot of times thank you to American people.

00:40:14.000 Except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong.

00:40:21.000 We know that you're wrong.

00:40:22.000 But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on here.

00:40:26.000 I think it's very important.

00:40:27.000 That's why I kept this going so long.

00:40:30.000 You have to be thankful.

00:40:31.000 You don't have the cards.

00:40:33.000 You're buried there.

00:40:34.000 Your people are dying. 0.95

00:40:36.000 You're running low on soldiers.

00:40:38.000 Listen, you're running low on soldiers. 0.83

00:40:41.000 It would be a damn good thing. 0.84

00:40:42.000 Then you tell us, I don't want to cease fire. 0.96

00:40:45.000 I don't want to cease fire.

00:40:47.000 I want to go and I wanted this.

00:40:49.000 Look.

00:40:50.000 If you could get a ceasefire right now, I'd tell you you'd take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed.

00:40:56.000 Of course we want to stop the war. 0.95

00:40:57.000 But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire?

00:40:58.000 But I said to you.

00:40:59.000 I want a ceasefire.

00:41:00.000 With guarantees.

00:41:01.000 Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than a degree.

00:41:05.000 Okay, so, Zelensky is so obviously spoiling for a fight.

00:41:10.000 He's so obviously spoiling for a fight.

00:41:12.000 And J.D. pushes back on him in a way that is designed to blow up the entire thing.

00:41:16.000 The people who wanted the fight in this meeting...

00:41:18.000 Our Zelensky on the one side, who clearly was spoiling for a fight from pretty much the first moment.

00:41:22.000 And then J.D., when he gets his chance, the Vice President of the United States, when he gets his chance, he immediately throws two grenades again.

00:41:28.000 One designed to piss off Trump and one designed to piss off Zelensky.

00:41:32.000 And Zelensky, who's been spoiling for a fight the whole time, jumps on that grenade with his chest.

00:41:36.000 I mean, jumps on that grenade.

00:41:38.000 And then he gets into a fight with Trump in the Oval Office.

00:41:40.000 And then Trump, predictably, the fallout is that President Trump says, well, we don't, you know, get out.

00:41:45.000 Trump throws him out of the Oval Office.

00:41:47.000 And then he releases a statement on Truth Social.

00:41:49.000 We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today.

00:41:52.000 Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure.

00:41:55.000 It's amazing what comes out through emotion.

00:41:57.000 I've determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiation.

00:42:03.000 I don't want advantage.

00:42:04.000 I want peace.

00:42:05.000 He disrespected the United States of America and his cherished Oval Office.

00:42:07.000 He can come back when he is ready for peace.

00:42:10.000 Okay, so what is the actual impact of all of that?

00:42:13.000 Now, again, the reality is...

00:42:15.000 At the end of the war, as I say, from the very beginning, the end of the war is Russia ends up with control of Donbass and Crimea. 0.61

00:42:22.000 Security guarantees are issued by Europe.

00:42:24.000 There's some tacit American support of those security guarantees in all likelihood.

00:42:27.000 Whatever accelerates the process toward that is good.

00:42:30.000 Whatever decelerates the progress toward that is bad.

00:42:33.000 Did this whole tête-à-tête accelerate the progress toward that?

00:42:36.000 So many things can be true at once.

00:42:39.000 One, I think Trump was the adult in the room pretty much his entire time.

00:42:42.000 Two, Zelensky came in spoiling for a fight.

00:42:44.000 And as we'll examine in just a moment, that's probably because he was talking with many of the wrong people in the United States, and also possibly because he's strategizing for European support.

00:42:52.000 Three, Vice President Vance definitely escalated this.

00:42:55.000 You can hear it in the exchange.

00:42:56.000 It is Zelensky who is pushing Trump and Vance, but it is Vance who decides to get incredibly personal.

00:43:02.000 And I think that that may have something to do with Vance's own views on foreign policy, which again, I don't know how well those match up with President Trump's generalized worldview on foreign policy, even if they cross over with regard to their perspectives on Zelensky.

00:43:14.000 Zelensky then made the swars.

00:43:16.000 Again, this is either brutal incompetence by Zelensky or an attempt to essentially drive support for Ukraine from the Europeans via hatred of Trump.

00:43:27.000 It may be that.

00:43:28.000 Could easily be that.

00:43:29.000 So Zelensky goes on Bret Baier that same evening.

00:43:32.000 And here is Zelensky over and over and over refusing to apologize to the president.

00:43:37.000 So I'm not hearing from you, Mr. President, a thought that you owe the president an apology.

00:43:42.000 No, I respect the president and I respect American people.

00:43:46.000 And if I don't know if I think that we have to be very open and very honest.

00:43:54.000 And I'm not sure that we did something bad.

00:43:58.000 I think maybe sometimes some things we have to discuss out of out of media.

00:44:05.000 Okay, so did any of this like change the underlying dynamics of the deal?

00:44:11.000 Maybe not, but...

00:44:12.000 The perceptions from other players, say Russia and China, are going to matter.

00:44:16.000 So Russia put out a statement saying that the United States' sudden shift in foreign policy, quote, largely aligns with its own position.

00:44:22.000 Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, quote, the new administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations.

00:44:26.000 This largely aligns with our vision.

00:44:29.000 There's a long way to go because a lot of damage has been done to the whole complex of bilateral relations.

00:44:33.000 But if the political will of the two leaders, President Putin and President Trump, is maintained, this path could be quick and successful.

00:44:39.000 And of course, they then insulted Vladimir Zelensky throughout all of this.

00:44:44.000 So, one of the big questions that we're going to have to answer here is whether this meeting is symptomatic of a broader American foreign policy shift or whether it is reflective of bad political calculations by Vladimir Zelensky, whether it is reflective of specific designs in Ukraine, but doesn't have implications for, say, NATO or the Far East.

00:45:03.000 That is the big question that comes out of all of this, and we'll get to that in just one moment.

00:45:08.000 First, Tomorrow night, folks, 9 p.m.

00:45:11.000 Eastern, President Donald Trump addresses Congress.

00:45:12.000 A moment this big demands coverage like never before.

00:45:14.000 That's exactly what we are bringing you.

00:45:16.000 For the first time ever, Matt Walsh and I will be live from D.C. at the president's speech as history unfolds.

00:45:21.000 It all starts with our exclusive pre-show at 8.30 p.m.

00:45:24.000 Eastern on Daily Wire Plus, setting the stage for President Trump's address.

00:45:26.000 Then, watch Trump's speech with us live as we bring you the kind of real-time analysis you won't get anywhere else.

00:45:31.000 And don't go anywhere after.

00:45:32.000 It's backstage live, breaking down every major moment in real time.

00:45:35.000 This is the coverage you won't find on Legacy Media.

00:45:38.000 Watch it all exclusively at Daily Wire Plus.

00:45:40.000 Okay, so the Republican reaction to this was to condemn Zelensky quite proper.

00:45:45.000 So Lindsey Graham, there's no bigger backer in Congress of the Ukraine involvement by the Americans than Senator Lindsey Graham.

00:45:52.000 He said that Zelensky probably should resign over all of this because he's now blown out his level of support with Americans.

00:45:58.000 It was an absolute, utter disaster.

00:46:01.000 The question for me is, is he redeemable in the eyes of Americans?

00:46:06.000 Most Americans witnessing what they saw today would not want Zelensky to be their business partner.

00:46:12.000 And Zelensky felt like he needed to bait Trump in the Oval Office.

00:46:17.000 J.D. was awesome.

00:46:18.000 This was a missed opportunity.

00:46:20.000 And the question for me, for the Ukrainian people...

00:46:24.000 I don't know if Zelensky can ever get you to where you want to go with the United States.

00:46:29.000 Either he dramatically changes, or you need to get somebody new.

00:46:35.000 So, Speaker of the House Mike Johnson repeated that general sentiment, suggesting that, on CNN as well as NBC, that we know Vladimir Putin is going to be trusted, we're not abandoning Ukraine, but Zelensky is a disaster area.

00:46:50.000 I think Vladimir Putin is an old-school communist, a former KGB agent.

00:46:55.000 He's not to be trusted, and he is dangerous.

00:46:58.000 No, they're not abandoning Ukraine.

00:47:00.000 I was with the president a day before that meeting, and he was excited about this mineral rights deal.

00:47:06.000 He believed it, and we all believed it, to be in the best interest of both countries.

00:47:10.000 We understand that he is a dangerous adversary, and he is the one that provoked the war. 0.80

00:47:14.000 Well, something has to change.

00:47:16.000 Either he needs to come to his senses and come back to the table in gratitude.

00:47:23.000 Okay, so again, this has been the sort of general Republican response to all of this.

00:47:30.000 Secretary of State Marco Rubio said something similar.

00:47:33.000 He said, listen, we're not trying to undermine Ukraine.

00:47:35.000 We're trying to get to a negotiated end here.

00:47:37.000 And, you know, you can preen and you can posture, but the negotiated end kind of looks the same no matter how you slice it.

00:47:42.000 And we need to figure out, is there a way to get them to stop the war?

00:47:46.000 And the only way you're going to do that is to get Russians engaged in negotiations, something the Europeans haven't been able to do, the Biden administration wasn't able to do or didn't even try.

00:47:56.000 That's the goal here.

00:47:57.000 It's that simple.

00:47:58.000 Can we try to sit with them and figure out whether there's anything?

00:48:01.000 What are the Russians' demands?

00:48:02.000 Under what conditions would the Russians be willing to stop this war?

00:48:05.000 And as I said, we don't know what those are because we haven't talked to them in three years.

00:48:09.000 That's the singular goal here is to try to bring about an end.

00:48:16.000 Howard Lutnick, who's the Commerce Secretary, repeated this.

00:48:19.000 He says, listen, Zelensky came in here and wanted to make a make-believe bargain that wasn't on the table.

00:48:23.000 What was he doing?

00:48:25.000 That's why the president called it World War III. You're gambling with World War III. We're not going to give you security guarantees while you're at war with Russia. 0.72

00:48:33.000 It's just ridiculous. 0.99

00:48:35.000 His requests were ridiculous. 0.99

00:48:36.000 They were not reasonable. 0.98

00:48:38.000 The president let it go for a while.

00:48:42.000 He was there to make peace.

00:48:43.000 Our president is there to make peace.

00:48:45.000 As he said, end the death.

00:48:48.000 And Zelensky was not there to make peace.

00:48:50.000 He was there to strike some sort of make-believe bargain that he had in his mind.

00:48:54.000 And eventually that just ran its course.

00:48:59.000 And then Scott Besant, who's the Treasury Secretary, said something similar.

00:49:03.000 He says, listen, the whole point of getting to an economic deal is to get to a peace deal.

00:49:06.000 I mean, this is what Trump was saying in the room.

00:49:08.000 Again, Trump was the adult.

00:49:11.000 It is impossible to have an economic deal without a peace deal.

00:49:16.000 The sine qua non for an economic deal is that Ukrainian leadership...

00:49:22.000 Wants a peace deal.

00:49:23.000 I thought this was a building block towards getting to a peace deal.

00:49:26.000 Well, it was supposed to be.

00:49:27.000 But President Zelensky came into the Oval on Friday.

00:49:32.000 There were three things that were going to be done.

00:49:34.000 There was going to be a press conference.

00:49:36.000 There was going to be a private lunch with 16 of us.

00:49:38.000 And as you can see from Dan Scavino's post on his ex-account, we were already set up to sign the deal.

00:49:47.000 So it's unclear now.

00:49:50.000 President Zelensky has thrown off the sequencing.

00:49:54.000 And this is right, by the way.

00:49:56.000 Again, this is not just from the United States.

00:49:57.000 The British ambassador to the United States, again, Peter Mandelson, he said that that was the whole point.

00:50:02.000 The whole point of the rare earth mineral deal was to set up the possibility of a peace deal that would then include some security guarantees.

00:50:10.000 And yes, I do think it would be a good idea if he signed the economic and commercial deal put forward by the United States.

00:50:19.000 And the reason I say that is quite apart from the economic gain that Ukraine will derive from that, it will also give the United States a stake in Ukraine's future.

00:50:32.000 It will mean that U.S. commercial interests, U.S. individuals, citizens will be on the ground there.

00:50:40.000 And that will be an even greater added incentive for the U.S. to protect the Ukraine in future and make sure that war does not ensue again.

00:50:52.000 OK, by the way, you know who agrees with all this?

00:50:56.000 Donald Trump!

00:50:57.000 Donald Trump agrees with all this.

00:50:58.000 So...

00:50:59.000 Yesterday, President Trump went to Truth Social and he posted a quote from some dude named Michael McKeown, who I've never heard of.

00:51:05.000 And here's the quote he posted, quote, Now Zelensky will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms.

00:51:09.000 But here's the genius part.

00:51:10.000 Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war.

00:51:13.000 By negotiating a mineral drill, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine's mining industry.

00:51:18.000 This prevents Russia from launching an invasion because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives, something that would force the U.S. to respond.

00:51:23.000 Trump played both sides like a master chess player.

00:51:26.000 In the end, Zelensky will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia.

00:51:31.000 And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.

00:51:36.000 Don't underestimate Donald Trump in this game of chess.

00:51:38.000 He's 10 moves ahead of everyone.

00:51:40.000 Okay, so that's what Trump was trying to do.

00:51:41.000 Trump was trying to give Zelensky the W, and Zelensky wouldn't take the W. So why did this go so wrong?

00:51:48.000 Well, one reason, apparently, is because, according to Michael Goodwin writing at the New York Post, Zelensky decided that he was going to take his hints and his advisory opinions from Democrats.

00:52:00.000 Quote, before meeting President Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.

00:52:08.000 Quote, just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington.

00:52:11.000 He confirmed the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine.

00:52:18.000 The meeting, as the world now knows, went quickly off the rails and ended with Trump angrily ejecting the, quote, arrogant ingrate from the White House.

00:52:25.000 But apparently, again, the goal here for Democrats was to basically sink the deal.

00:52:32.000 So Chris Murphy, who had advised Zelensky before the meeting, again, he's a hardcore Democrat who'd love to run for president, senator from Connecticut.

00:52:38.000 Here he was now suggesting that Trump was a Putin acolyte for the failure of the meeting.

00:52:41.000 So in other words, Murphy sent Zelensky to get absolutely creamed in that meeting.

00:52:46.000 And then he turns around and says that Trump is working for Putin.

00:52:49.000 It is absolutely shameful what is happening right now.

00:52:53.000 The White House has become an arm of the Kremlin.

00:52:56.000 Every single day, you hear from the National Security Advisor, from the President of the United States, from his entire national security team, Kremlin talking points.

00:53:05.000 For the last week, the White House has been pretending as if Ukraine started this war.

00:53:11.000 That's essentially saying that...

00:53:13.000 Poland invaded Germany at the beginning of World War II. So Murphy set this whole thing up to fail, presumably, or at least he was involved in it.

00:53:23.000 Okay, so what is the actual outcome of all of this? 1.00

00:53:26.000 Well, first of all, you have the idiot protesters. 1.00

00:53:27.000 So a bunch of protesters showed up. 1.00

00:53:28.000 The Vance family was supposed to go skiing.

00:53:30.000 And people showed up for miles around to yell at J.D. Vance.

00:53:34.000 They had to go to secure locations.

00:53:35.000 This kind of stuff is gross.

00:53:36.000 Really, really gross.

00:53:38.000 Here's what that looked like.

00:53:39.000 Yeah!

00:53:45.000 Oh, yeah!

00:53:47.000 Yeah, you can hear people screaming at various cars.

00:53:55.000 They're just trying to go skiing for the weekend, so that's just absolutely delightful.

00:53:59.000 What are the actual impacts from all of this?

00:54:01.000 Well, on the one hand, it could be that Europe finally steps up, and Trump actually gets what he wants out of this.

00:54:07.000 That Europe decides that they are going to actually fill the gap.

00:54:10.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, the UK and France said they would lead a European effort to forge a Ukraine peace plan to present to President Trump as they sought to patch up differences between Kiev and Washington following Friday's White House clash.

00:54:21.000 British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, hosting nearly 20 allies in London on Sunday, said the progress had been made in building a coalition of the willing which would commit military assets, including troops on the ground, to secure any eventual peace.

00:54:31.000 He said more countries would need to come on board if Europe is to build a force that would actually deter Russian aggression in Ukraine.

00:54:37.000 Well, I mean, that's what Trump has been calling for all the way.

00:54:39.000 And it's very weird to hear the Europeans suddenly doing the stuff that Trump actually wants them to do.

00:54:43.000 Like, for example, spend on defense and commit to defending their own continent.

00:54:47.000 Here is Ursula von der Leyen, she's the head of the EU, suggesting, weirdly enough, peace through strength.

00:54:54.000 We had a very good and frank discussion.

00:54:59.000 Basically, we've discussed everything that is around peace through strength.

00:55:05.000 And, of course, security guarantees are of utmost importance for Ukraine, but we need comprehensive security guarantees.

00:55:13.000 This includes that we have to put Ukraine in a position of strength, that it has the means to fortify and protect itself from the economic survival to the military resilience.

00:55:28.000 Now again, maybe this was Zelensky's play.

00:55:30.000 Maybe Zelensky's play was alienate Trump, knowing that Trump doesn't like him very much.

00:55:33.000 And then...

00:55:34.000 Play up to the Europeans and get what we want from the Europeans. 0.98

00:55:36.000 There's some problems with that, namely that the United States' materiel is way better than the Europeans' materiel. 0.93

00:55:42.000 And the other problem, of course, is can you trust the Europeans, given the fact that the Europeans have a long history of being absolute suckers when it comes to being taken in by foreign dictators? 0.84

00:55:51.000 I mean, it is worth noting at this point that during this war, during this actual honest-to-God war, EU imports of Russian oil surpassed the financial aid they sent to Ukraine.

00:56:01.000 So in other words, they paid the Russians more than they sent to the Ukrainians.

00:56:04.000 Which just shows you their levels of commitment.

00:56:06.000 But perhaps reality is starting to set in for the Europeans.

00:56:09.000 The Polish Prime Minister, Donald Tusk, he said, of course Europe should step up.

00:56:13.000 It's bizarre for Europe to ask the United States to be the one that actually fills the gap.

00:56:18.000 Ladies and gentlemen, there's a paradox and someone has already overlooked it.

00:56:24.000 Just listen to this.

00:56:29.000 500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to defend them against 140 million Russians. 0.64

00:56:38.000 I want to repeat these words.

00:56:42.000 If you know how to count, count on yourself.

00:56:44.000 Start relying on yourself.

00:56:46.000 Not in isolation, but with full awareness of your own potential.

00:56:51.000 Europe, if there's something we lack today, it's not economic or demographic power, but the belief that we're truly a global force.

00:57:00.000 Now, again, there's a reason why President Trump likes the Polish, because, again, they're saying the correct thing right here. 1.00

00:57:05.000 Even the UK's Keir Starmer, who, of course, is a left-wing socialist type.

00:57:09.000 He says we'll put boots on the ground and in the air to preserve any peace deal.

00:57:15.000 Not every nation will feel able to contribute, but that can't mean that we sit back.

00:57:22.000 Instead, those willing will intensify planning now with real urgency.

00:57:27.000 The UK is prepared to back this with boots on the ground and planes in the air.

00:57:34.000 Together with others, Europe must do the heavy lifting.

00:57:40.000 Okay, so, again, Trump seems to be getting what he wants here.

00:57:43.000 Europe steps up.

00:57:44.000 They do the heavy lifting.

00:57:45.000 Probably Zelensky has to come back and sign some sort of deal with the United States.

00:57:49.000 And the deal gets cut.

00:57:50.000 In which case, good job.

00:57:52.000 Everybody goes home happy.

00:57:53.000 The reason there's a lot of heartburn.

00:57:55.000 That is happening around this meeting is not really to do with Ukraine.

00:57:58.000 It really isn't to do with Ukraine.

00:58:00.000 The question is whether there is a resetting of the world order that is happening right now.

00:58:04.000 Now, a reset from the sort of bizarre vision of the Obama-Biden era would certainly be in order because the leading from behind, America should not actually engage in peace through strength.

00:58:14.000 The United States should essentially allow America's enemies to walk all over America's friends and then every so often throw some half-hearted support to America's friends that we would bloviate.

00:58:22.000 On a sort of Wilsonian moral level without actually filling that gap.

00:58:26.000 That is ending.

00:58:27.000 And the era of sort of hard power is returning.

00:58:30.000 But the question really is whether the Trump administration, what the Trump doctrine is.

00:58:36.000 Now I've said before on this show, because President Trump told me on this show, that the Trump doctrine is peace through strength.

00:58:41.000 That America stronger in the world is better.

00:58:43.000 That America with strong allies is in fact better.

00:58:47.000 But there's an open question.

00:58:49.000 Because it turns out that there are members of the Trump administration.

00:58:52.000 We don't necessarily believe all of that.

00:58:54.000 So the Wall Street Journal has an editorial this morning saying, with his first weeks back in office, especially after Friday's Oval Office brawling with Ukraine's president, it's clear President Trump has designs for a new world order.

00:59:05.000 Perhaps he could share this vision with the country when he addresses Congress on Tuesday.

00:59:08.000 The conventional view of Mr. Trump is that he's above all transactional.

00:59:11.000 He wants deals at home and abroad that he can sell as great successes.

00:59:13.000 But the way his second term is unfolding, this may undersell his ambition.

00:59:16.000 Mr. Trump's strategy seems to be moving toward that of Tucker Carlson and J.D. Vance, who view America as in decline and no longer able to lead or defend the West.

00:59:24.000 Now, that is the question.

00:59:26.000 That's the question.

00:59:27.000 The question is whether he is interested in hammering traditional U.S. friends like Canada and Mexico in violation of his own U.S.M.C.A. trade deal, or whether he is interested in sort of ceding control of Taiwan to China.

00:59:40.000 He says Trump hasn't articulated this.

00:59:42.000 This is the Wall Street Journal editorial board.

00:59:44.000 Trump hasn't articulated this.

00:59:46.000 Some of the intellectuals surrounding him have.

00:59:48.000 Elbridge Colby, nominated for the chief strategy post of the Pentagon, has argued the U.S. must leave Europe and the Middle East to their own devices to focus on the Asia-Pacific.

00:59:57.000 But Colby has also said South Korea might have to fend for itself.

01:00:00.000 And he said in a letter to us last year, quote, Taiwan isn't itself of existential importance to America.

01:00:05.000 Mr. Vance is the most vigorous promoter of the abandoned Ukraine strategy, arguing the war with Russia is little more than an ethnic dispute.

01:00:13.000 Ross Douthat of the New York Times, who is sort of the clarifier for J.D. Vance, says the vice president and president are merely, quote, stripping away foreign policy illusions.

01:00:22.000 So this is the question.

01:00:24.000 The question is whether what we are looking at...

01:00:26.000 Is America withdrawing from the world, ceding the Far East to China, allowing America's allies to basically run on their own in those areas?

01:00:33.000 And if they get invaded or taken over, Taiwan, South Korea, well, that's their business.

01:00:37.000 Whether Eastern Europe will be left open to the predations of the Russians.

01:00:41.000 Whether the Middle East will basically be left up for grabs between Turkey, Iran, Saudi, the Israelis.

01:00:47.000 And what that will look like.

01:00:48.000 What does it look like in America withdrawing from the world?

01:00:53.000 That's sort of the open question after the Trump-Ukraine meeting.

01:00:55.000 Is this symptomatic of a broader foreign policy shift away from America being the world's hegemonic leader and toward the idea that we're going to retreat from the world behind our oceans and then assume that everything will be okay?

01:01:08.000 Now, I don't know that that's the case.

01:01:09.000 In fact, I think that's probably not the case because the truth is there are a lot of conflicting signals.

01:01:13.000 It seems to me that if you look at the Russia-Ukraine situation in isolation, what you are seeing is President Trump trying to get to a deal through any means that he can.

01:01:20.000 I may not agree with the means, by the way.

01:01:22.000 I may think, The best approach to Vladimir Putin is to say, listen, you can see we're making every possible signal.

01:01:26.000 We're saying it openly.

01:01:27.000 We want a deal.

01:01:28.000 We want to get to a deal.

01:01:29.000 That deal will keep you Donbass and Crimea. 0.92

01:01:31.000 That deal will not allow you to invade the rest of Ukraine.

01:01:33.000 That's the deal.

01:01:34.000 And if we don't get that deal, then we're going to pour resources into Ukraine. 0.80

01:01:37.000 We're going to hit you so hard.

01:01:38.000 Because again, that is how Trump typically negotiates.

01:01:40.000 So it's kind of weird he's not doing that here.

01:01:41.000 Typically, the way that Trump negotiates is Colombia does something we don't like.

01:01:45.000 We threaten to increase our tariffs on Colombia to 50% and the next day they cave.

01:01:49.000 President Trump has no problem throwing his weight around.

01:01:52.000 And the sort of strange notion that we have to throw our weight around with Ukraine predominantly and that Russia is actually the conciliatory party here.

01:01:59.000 What are the signs of Russian conciliation?

01:02:01.000 If we saw those, I might be on board with that.

01:02:02.000 I'm waiting to see those still.

01:02:03.000 It seems to me that what actually happened in terms of real politique is that Russia now feels emboldened.

01:02:10.000 If you're Vladimir Putin, don't you pour troops across that border as soon as possible?

01:02:14.000 You now know that Zelensky and Trump don't get along, that the United States is not fond of Zelensky.

01:02:20.000 They don't like how he's handling it.

01:02:21.000 That the Europeans, for all of their big talk, aren't going to do much in the moment.

01:02:25.000 Wouldn't you try to push as hard as you can?

01:02:27.000 Because that is the Russian strategy, is to push where there's mush. 0.90

01:02:30.000 I mean, the war may have been lengthened by this meeting, not shortened by this meeting.

01:02:34.000 I don't know.

01:02:34.000 We'll see how it works out.

01:02:35.000 But the real question is overall American approach toward foreign policy.

01:02:39.000 So I'm going to talk for a second about why, in general, America's involvement in the world matters for America.

01:02:43.000 Here's some stuff that you're not going to hear me say.

01:02:45.000 I'm not going to talk about democracy.

01:02:46.000 I'm not going to talk about Wilsonian values.

01:02:48.000 I'm not going to talk about the spreading of free speech and the blessings of liberty.

01:02:52.000 All that stuff is super nice.

01:02:53.000 It's great.

01:02:54.000 If we can get it, terrific.

01:02:55.000 But that is not at the center of America's interest.

01:02:57.000 You know what's at the center of America's interest?

01:02:59.000 A thriving America.

01:03:00.000 That's what the center of America's interest is.

01:03:02.000 This is the difference between quote-unquote neocons, you know, people who in the 2000s were suggesting we needed to spread democracy all over the world, and people who are real politique.

01:03:13.000 Aficionados.

01:03:13.000 Let's be real.

01:03:14.000 After the Iraq War, everybody is now in the real policy category.

01:03:17.000 There are very few Wilsonian thinkers who think that it's the job of the United States to spread democracy everywhere in the world.

01:03:22.000 That rhetoric has been blown up.

01:03:25.000 It's why it was so irritating when Joe Biden used to use it. 1.00

01:03:28.000 Because it was stupid. 1.00

01:03:30.000 But, let's be clear. 1.00

01:03:32.000 America's national interest does in fact rely on a strong America abroad.

01:03:37.000 Because here's the thing.

01:03:38.000 With us being the world's hegemon comes enormous economic benefit to the American people.

01:03:44.000 So, for example, if you think that we can continue to fund our unbelievably onerous welfare state via debt, if we are not the leading power on earth, you got another thing coming.

01:03:54.000 That is not the way this works.

01:03:56.000 We sell our debt, trillions of dollars of debt, every single year abroad.

01:04:01.000 The question is, why does the rest of the world buy American debt?

01:04:04.000 And there are several reasons.

01:04:06.000 One, they think that we'll repay them.

01:04:07.000 And this has several elements.

01:04:08.000 One, we are economically strong.

01:04:10.000 Well, part of America's economic strength is not, in fact, autarky, overpriced products.

01:04:15.000 One of America's economic strengths is that we are not a highly regulated society, unlike much of Europe.

01:04:20.000 Our tax structure is better than that of Europe in many ways, particularly for business.

01:04:24.000 We are more globally competitive.

01:04:26.000 Our economic strength relies, yes, on globalization.

01:04:29.000 I know that that word has taken on weird connotations.

01:04:32.000 All that means is that when we trade with other countries, That's actually typically very good for the United States.

01:04:38.000 It makes better products and services at a cheaper price.

01:04:40.000 Our innovation tends to win.

01:04:43.000 Our economic strength is the reason that people buy our debt, because they figure we're the best bet on the block.

01:04:47.000 Two, foreign policy strength, which undergirds that economic strength.

01:04:51.000 This is something people don't like to talk about, but the reality is that free trade, for example, isn't something that just randomly happened.

01:04:58.000 It happens because the United States Navy is guarding all the shipping lanes on planet Earth.

01:05:03.000 It is the United States that ensures the Straits of Malacca, where a huge percentage of world trade goes, is open. 0.66

01:05:09.000 The reason that there are so many countries that are willing to buy our debt is because the United States is involved with those countries in ways that include security.

01:05:18.000 In fact, as we'll talk about in a moment, one of the reasons that the United States dollar is the world's global reserve currency is because of our foreign policy strength.

01:05:26.000 And then finally, lack of viable alternatives.

01:05:28.000 Right?

01:05:29.000 Because we occupy so much space on planet Earth, that means there is no alternative to investing in the United States.

01:05:34.000 What are you going to invest in China?

01:05:35.000 China's a debt-driven society.

01:05:37.000 You're going to go invest in the EU? The EU is the most non-innovative society in the developed world by far.

01:05:44.000 Okay, second, why does the rest of the world buy American debt?

01:05:47.000 Because they want fungible assets that translate into dollars.

01:05:51.000 So, for example, foreign banks will buy American bonds.

01:05:54.000 Why do they buy American bonds?

01:05:56.000 That's debt.

01:05:56.000 Because they can then easily exchange those bonds for dollars.

01:05:59.000 And people need dollars because dollars are the world's reserve currency.

01:06:02.000 What does that mean that dollars are the world's reserve currency?

01:06:04.000 You hear that all the time.

01:06:06.000 It's a huge thing that the dollar is the world's reserve currency.

01:06:09.000 That means an enormous percentage of trade all around the world, not involving the United States, happens via the dollar.

01:06:15.000 So, for example, if, for example, the Indians want to trade with the Chinese, they both translate to dollars.

01:06:21.000 They don't just go rupee to yuan.

01:06:23.000 Instead, they both translate to dollars.

01:06:26.000 It's true all over the world.

01:06:28.000 If you want to trade a euro for a ruble for decades until the current sanctions, both the EU and Russia would translate that into dollars and then trade with each other using dollars.

01:06:41.000 So banks around the world will exchange these foreign currency into dollars and then they'll trade those dollars for other forms of dollars, other currency.

01:06:49.000 So according to the Brookings Institute, 54% of all global trade invoices are done purely in dollars.

01:06:55.000 And then, even the ones that are not done in dollars, the foreign exchange happens in dollars.

01:06:59.000 88% of all foreign exchange transactions happens in dollars.

01:07:02.000 And there you are talking about tens of trillions of dollars every single year.

01:07:06.000 And this has huge benefits for the United States.

01:07:08.000 Because when people buy our debt, because they want access to the dollar, it funds our welfare state.

01:07:14.000 Who's paying for that? 0.60

01:07:15.000 It ain't you.

01:07:15.000 It ain't taxpayers.

01:07:17.000 It's debt.

01:07:18.000 It injects capital into our markets.

01:07:20.000 If there's lots of dollars wandering around abroad, those dollars have to go somewhere.

01:07:23.000 And it turns out a lot of those dollars...

01:07:24.000 Go into our capital markets, our stock market.

01:07:27.000 It also, because we have such enormous leverage in global markets, allows us to use economic weaponry like sanctions against Iran or to increase tariffs against our enemies.

01:07:36.000 It gives us leverage in foreign policy.

01:07:38.000 So what keeps the United States dollar as the world's reserve currency?

01:07:42.000 Well, there are a few factors.

01:07:42.000 One, stability of the currency, and that requires stability in the country.

01:07:45.000 That means economic growth in the United States.

01:07:48.000 Two, availability of the dollars.

01:07:50.000 If the United States is really stable, but we trade with a currency you can't get elsewhere, No one's going to use that as a reserve currency.

01:07:56.000 So that means that trade, that means that global involvement matters an awful lot.

01:08:01.000 Now here's an example.

01:08:02.000 The reason the U.S. originally became the world's reserve currency is because in 1971, the U.S. ended something called the Bretton Woods Agreement.

01:08:09.000 The Bretton Woods Agreement was an agreement that was signed in 1944, very end of World War II, in which the United States basically allowed, we pegged our currency to gold, to the price of gold, and then all other currency pegged themselves to the United States dollars.

01:08:23.000 In 1950s and 1960s, the United States wildly overspent.

01:08:27.000 We spent way too much money on our welfare programs, and we'd started to bankrupt ourselves.

01:08:31.000 So what happened is massive gold outflows.

01:08:33.000 What people were doing is they were showing up at the central banks in the United States, and they were saying, we want to trade our U.S. dollars for gold.

01:08:39.000 And so Nixon said, we're not going to be dependent on gold anymore.

01:08:42.000 We stopped pegging the U.S. dollar to gold.

01:08:45.000 So that should have completely debased the dollar, right?

01:08:47.000 Because now what is it pegged to?

01:08:48.000 Well, instead, Nixon pegged it to the full faith and credit of the United States, right?

01:08:52.000 Look at your dollar bill.

01:08:53.000 That's essentially what it says.

01:08:55.000 So how did we ensure that people would trust the dollar?

01:08:58.000 Well, one of the ways is we created something called the petrodollar system.

01:09:01.000 So we went to Saudi Arabia, which was at the time with OPEC, the dominant oil trading firm on planet Earth.

01:09:06.000 And we said that they should only use dollars for transactions involving oil.

01:09:09.000 So if you wanted to buy oil from Saudi, you couldn't use a ruble.

01:09:12.000 You couldn't use a yuan.

01:09:13.000 You had to use a dollar.

01:09:14.000 What did Saudi get in exchange? 0.50

01:09:16.000 We would provide military protection, economic aid, and security guarantees to Saudi.

01:09:21.000 And so again, foreign policy matters an awful lot for domestic economic policy, for how we spend, for the value of the dollar.

01:09:28.000 What factors undermine the dollar as the world's reserve currency?

01:09:32.000 Well, number one, foreign policy weakness.

01:09:34.000 If we retreat, then it turns out people don't want dollars as much.

01:09:38.000 They do not see us as a good bet.

01:09:40.000 They also are going to move away from the dollar and start embracing more local forms of currency.

01:09:46.000 Every time we use economic weaponry, for example, its effects diminish.

01:09:49.000 So this is why peace through strength matters.

01:09:51.000 Peace through strength is a deterrent.

01:09:53.000 You don't want to have to use economic or military weaponry.

01:09:55.000 You spend on your military, so no one wants to screw with you.

01:09:58.000 And then you don't have to, for example, levy enormous sanctions on the Russians.

01:10:02.000 If we had had a peace through strength policy before Russia invaded Ukraine, then Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine.

01:10:08.000 And then we wouldn't have had to put giant sanctions on them.

01:10:10.000 And then the Russians wouldn't have moved into a full-on satrapy relationship with the Chinese. 1.00

01:10:14.000 And then they wouldn't have moved away from the dollar, which has led to a broader de-dollarization.

01:10:19.000 Other factors, domestic overspending.

01:10:21.000 If we spend too much money on our welfare programs, this makes us way more dependent on foreign purchases of our debt.

01:10:27.000 If we withdraw from world markets in trade, that makes dollars way less available.

01:10:31.000 And if there is chaos in the markets in general, if, for example, the free trade lanes start to break up, if the U.S. Navy retreats, There is now pressure for regional trading blocks to stop using the dollar as the reserve currency.

01:10:44.000 So what would actually happen if we lose that status?

01:10:46.000 Why is all this important to you?

01:10:47.000 One, massive increase in borrowing costs.

01:10:50.000 So the national debt, we can no longer pay that off.

01:10:52.000 We can no longer sell more of it.

01:10:54.000 That means radically increased taxes at home or radically increased inflation or both.

01:10:58.000 Two, currency depreciation and inflation.

01:11:00.000 Because if less people are buying the dollar globally, the price of the dollar goes down.

01:11:05.000 If there's less demand...

01:11:07.000 And the supply remains the same.

01:11:08.000 The price of the dollar goes down.

01:11:09.000 So that means all your prices go up.

01:11:11.000 It means less foreign investment in U.S. financial markets.

01:11:15.000 So your stock prices drop as well.

01:11:17.000 The availability of capital to start businesses drops pretty dramatically as well.

01:11:21.000 And, of course, we lose our ability to use economics as leverage.

01:11:24.000 We can no longer do sanctions because, obviously, if you're trying to cut somebody off from the use of the dollar and they're not using the dollar anymore, it don't matter.

01:11:31.000 So all this is materializing in real time.

01:11:34.000 As the United States retreats from the world, As the United States loses its relative power, it's not absolute power, it's relative power.

01:11:40.000 As that happens, things start to get worse.

01:11:44.000 Here is a chart of the United States dollar as the world's reserve currency.

01:11:49.000 And as you can see, it's from the IMF. As you can see, the U.S. dollar share of foreign reserves has dropped from somewhere around 72% in 2000, all the way down to if you're adjusting for interest rates and exchange rates, all the way down to about...

01:12:06.000 56%.

01:12:06.000 That is a massive decrease in the U.S. dollar as a share of foreign reserves.

01:12:10.000 That is a problem.

01:12:11.000 It's something that we should be looking to fix.

01:12:13.000 The only way to fix that is with productivity at home, a strong and healthy market here at home, cuts to our national debt, cuts to our welfare state, and yes, a continued presence abroad that ensures a stable world and global situation.

01:12:27.000 Again, that is not for the good of other countries.

01:12:29.000 That is for the good of you.

01:12:30.000 That is the good for me.

01:12:31.000 That is good for American citizens.

01:12:33.000 At no point during this little disquisition have I mentioned the following words, democracy, liberalism, free speech, sexual orientation.

01:12:40.000 I've not mentioned any of those things.

01:12:42.000 And when you're talking about clear, real politic interests, that is why it matters how the United States orients itself to the world.

01:12:48.000 And if China goes after Taiwan or goes after the Taiwan Straits, that's going to have massive knock-on effects for American citizens, not just in terms of the semiconductors at TSMC, but in terms of the breakup of the global trade system, of the free market.

01:13:02.000 Of American power and its perception abroad.

01:13:04.000 And yeah, that's going to cost you.

01:13:06.000 It's going to cost all of us.

01:13:07.000 It doesn't require an invasion of the United States.

01:13:09.000 We have big oceans, thank God, in order for the United States to suffer.

01:13:14.000 Because the United States, it turns out that when you dismantle a global hegemon like the United States, that doesn't tend to be amazing for the global hegemon.

01:13:22.000 Meanwhile, as it turns out, other things were happening on planet Earth that were not important at all.

01:13:27.000 That would be the Oscars last night.

01:13:29.000 So this may be the first you heard of the Oscars because no one watched any of the movies.

01:13:32.000 We reviewed all of them on Friday, and it turns out the only two that did any box office at all were Wicked and Dune Part 2, and neither one really did particularly well last night.

01:13:41.000 The Oscars itself was semi-apolitical except for one bizarre statement in support of Hamas that happened when a documentary that was all about the evils of the Israelis, you know, like a year and not even a year and a half after the mass murder of Jews on October 7th and the continued holding of hostages in the Gaza Strip. 0.97

01:13:59.000 These schmucks got up. 1.00

01:14:00.000 A person named Basil Adra, Rachel Jor, Hamdan Balal, and Yuval Abraham. 1.00

01:14:05.000 It's not too hard, by the way, to find a left-wing Jew to join along with people who wish to slaughter Jews in order to rip on Israel. 0.91

01:14:12.000 Actually, not all that difficult a task.

01:14:13.000 So there's a movie, a documentary called No Other Land, which earned approximately 128th of Am I Racist, I believe, at the box office.

01:14:20.000 And these guys got up to talk about how Israel was the problem in the Middle East, you know, the week after Palestinians held a giant ceremony celebrating The strangulation murder of two toddlers before returning their dead bodies to the Israelis.

01:14:34.000 But, you know, Hollywood's going to be Hollywood.

01:14:37.000 About two months ago, I became a father and my hope to my daughter that she will not have to live the same life I'm living now.

01:14:45.000 Always feeling...

01:14:47.000 Always...

01:14:50.000 Always feeling settlers' violence, home demolitions, and forest-built displacements that my community, Masaf Riyatta, is living and facing every day under the Israeli occupation.

01:15:02.000 No other land reflects the harsh reality that we have been enduring for decades and still resist, as we call on the war, to take serious actions to stop the injustice and to stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people.

01:15:19.000 The atrocious destruction of Gaza and its people which must end, the Israeli hostages, brutally taken in the crime of October 7th, which must be freed.

01:15:27.000 When I look at Basel, I see my brother, but we are unequal.

01:15:33.000 We live in a regime where I am free, under civilian law, and Basel is under military laws that destroy his life and he cannot control.

01:15:40.000 There is a different path, a political solution, without ethnic supremacy, with... 0.90

01:15:46.000 National rights for both of our people.

01:15:49.000 And I have to say, as I am here, the foreign policy in this country is helping to block this path.

01:15:57.000 And...

01:15:57.000 These people are high on their own supply.

01:16:02.000 Why? 1.00

01:16:03.000 I don't need to listen to this schmuck anymore. 1.00

01:16:04.000 Honest to God. 1.00

01:16:06.000 Just disgusting. 0.99

01:16:07.000 Truly disgusting. 1.00

01:16:08.000 Get up there and stand for Hamas. 0.99

01:16:09.000 Let's be real about this. 0.97

01:16:10.000 The Palestinian Authority pays terrorists. 0.59

01:16:12.000 That's what they literally do.

01:16:14.000 Hamas is a dominant force inside the West Bank.

01:16:16.000 Hamas continues to occupy the Gaza Strip.

01:16:19.000 The Palestinians are by and large supportive of terrorism against Israelis and wish to exterminate the state of Israel. 1.00

01:16:24.000 The reason that there is a quote-unquote military occupation of these areas and not, you know, domestic home rule by the PA is because every time Israel attempts to withdraw from these areas, terrorists take them over and use them as bases for terrorist attacks.

01:16:36.000 The reason for checkpoints is because of terrorist attacks.

01:16:39.000 The reason that Israel has to maintain a military presence in these areas and put its own people in harm's way. 0.64

01:16:45.000 It's because of Palestinian terrorism and exterminationist hatred for Jews.

01:16:50.000 So yeah, for sure, you definitely should give a Best Documentary Award to this sort of propaganda on behalf of terrorism in the year and a half after the worst terrorist attack on Jews since World War II. It's just vile stuff, but, you know, leave it to the Academy.

01:17:05.000 Okay, meanwhile, there were some good things that happened during the show.

01:17:08.000 I think the best moment came when Karen Culkin was given an award for a movie called A Real Pain.

01:17:13.000 He won Best Supporting Actor.

01:17:15.000 And his speech was really, really charming.

01:17:17.000 He basically suggested that he get his wife pregnant for the fourth time.

01:17:20.000 It was very funny.

01:17:23.000 About a year ago, I was on a stage like this, and I very stupidly publicly said that I won a third kid from her because she said if I won the award, she would give me the kid.

01:17:32.000 It turns out she said that because she didn't think I was going to win.

01:17:36.000 And people came up to her and were like, you know, really annoying her.

01:17:41.000 I think it got to her.

01:17:42.000 But anyway.

01:17:44.000 After the show, we're walking through a parking lot.

01:17:45.000 She's holding the Emmy.

01:17:46.000 We're trying to find our car.

01:17:47.000 Emily, you were there, so you're a witness.

01:17:48.000 And she goes, Oh, God, I did say that.

01:17:51.000 I guess I owe you a third kid.

01:17:52.000 And I turned to her and I said, Really?

01:17:54.000 I want four.

01:17:56.000 And she turned to me.

01:17:57.000 I swear to God, this happened.

01:17:58.000 It was just over a year ago.

01:17:59.000 She said, I will give you four when you win an Oscar.

01:18:05.000 I held my hand out.

01:18:07.000 She shook it.

01:18:08.000 And I have not brought it up once until just now.

01:18:10.000 You remember that, honey?

01:18:11.000 You do?

01:18:11.000 Okay.

01:18:12.000 Then I just have this to say to you, Jazz.

01:18:14.000 Love of my life, ye of little faith.

01:18:19.000 No pressure.

01:18:21.000 I love you.

01:18:22.000 I'm really sorry I did this again.

01:18:25.000 And let's get cracking on those kids. 0.99

01:18:26.000 What do you say?

01:18:30.000 That's great.

01:18:31.000 That's charming and wonderful and hilarious and good for Karen Culkin.

01:18:35.000 Seriously, the best thing I've seen at the Oscars in years is that particular...

01:18:38.000 And then there are some low moments.

01:18:40.000 Like, for example, every prostitute in America has to be thanked.

01:18:43.000 So the movie that won Best Picture is Anora. 0.99

01:18:45.000 Anora is the story of a sex worker, which means a prostitute, who cynically marries a half-moron, 18-year-old Russian oligarch son. 0.96

01:18:55.000 And then it turns out that the romance doesn't exactly work, and she's sad. 0.99

01:18:59.000 That's the whole movie.

01:19:00.000 Hope you enjoyed it.

01:19:02.000 Well, the guy who won Best Director and Best Picture for it was a guy named Sean Baker. 0.96

01:19:06.000 And he felt the necessity to thank the prostitutes. 0.94

01:19:08.000 Let's do it.

01:19:10.000 I want to thank the sex worker community.

01:19:13.000 They have shared their stories.

01:19:15.000 They have shared their life experience with me over the years.

01:19:19.000 My deepest respect.

01:19:20.000 Thank you.

01:19:21.000 I share this with you.

01:19:26.000 Deep respect.

01:19:27.000 Deep respect for people who sell their body for money.

01:19:28.000 The whole movie, by the way, is a repudiation of that.

01:19:30.000 The reason she's sad at the end is because she has to go back to being a sex worker. 1.00

01:19:34.000 And that sucks. 0.96

01:19:36.000 It is amazing to me how people in Hollywood will make movies with very clear conservative messages at the end, and they don't even realize the movie they just made. 0.98

01:19:43.000 Mikey Madison won Best Actress over, apparently, Demi Moore.

01:19:48.000 So I guess that the plot of the Oscars was just the plot of The Substance, where the young, better-looking young woman, apparently, wins the Oscar over the older woman.

01:19:57.000 Whoops.

01:19:58.000 Anyway, here is Mikey Madison also thanking the Prostitutes of America. 0.60

01:20:03.000 I also just want to, again, recognize and honor the sex worker community.

01:20:08.000 I will continue to support and be an ally.

01:20:15.000 All of the incredible people, the women that I've had the privilege of meeting from that community has been one of the highlights of this incredible, of this entire incredible experience.

01:20:27.000 It's true.

01:20:28.000 There is no... 0.98

01:20:30.000 No more incredible experience than hanging out with the prostitutes. 0.95

01:20:34.000 Okay, also, Daryl Hannah showed up to show support for Ukraine. 0.60

01:20:38.000 Now, I do find it hilarious that Hollywood has decided that this is the same Hollywood that will stand for Hamas will also show support for Ukraine, which is interesting. 0.78

01:20:49.000 I have a feeling it has less to do with their support of Ukraine than the fact that Trump does not sufficiently support Ukraine in their view.

01:20:55.000 It's all oppositional.

01:20:56.000 Here is Daryl Hannah doing her routine. 1.00

01:20:59.000 Slava, Ukraine.

01:21:09.000 Okay, well, you saved Ukraine.

01:21:16.000 Great job.

01:21:16.000 Also, Adrian Brody won Best Actor for again playing a veteran of the Holocaust.

01:21:22.000 So he played a very similar part when he won for The Pianist, and now he won again for The Brutalist.

01:21:28.000 And I have to say, it is pretty incredible that...

01:21:31.000 He tried to call out anti-Semitism, but Hollywood is so perverse that he can't just call out anti-Semitism in a movie about anti-Semitism.

01:21:38.000 He also has to call out racism and all the rest of it.

01:21:41.000 In Hollywood, the way that it works is you can't say anti-Semitism without saying, also, racism, sexism, and homophobia.

01:21:46.000 It's like a formula.

01:21:47.000 And if you don't say the magical incantation, then they smite you.

01:21:52.000 Here is Adrian Brody.

01:21:53.000 I'm here once again to represent the lingering traumas and the repercussions of war and systematic oppression and of anti-Semitism and racism and of othering.

01:22:15.000 And I believe that I pray for a healthier and a happier and a more inclusive world.

01:22:23.000 And I believe if the past can teach us anything, it's a reminder to not let hate go unchecked. 0.99

01:22:34.000 It's always the same crap from Hollywood. 0.90

01:22:36.000 It can never be a specific malady. 1.00

01:22:38.000 It always has to be racism, sexism, nonsense, contempt of bigotry, homophobia. 0.96

01:22:41.000 And if you don't say them all at the same time, then obviously it's because you don't like black people enough or something like that. 0.97

01:22:47.000 Speaking of black people, apparently we have to have a standing ovation anytime a black person wins any award for the first time. 0.95

01:22:53.000 So we're getting low on the list. 0.90

01:22:55.000 We've had a black president.

01:22:56.000 We've had a black secretary of state. 0.98

01:22:58.000 We've had a black vice president.

01:22:59.000 We've had...

01:23:01.000 Best actors who are black, best actresses who are black, best directors who are black.

01:23:05.000 And so now we've reached the point where we need standing ovations for the first black man to win best costume design.

01:23:11.000 When we get down to best key grip, and I guess we'll still be doing standing ovations for this, as though black Americans could never win costume design until this very moment. 0.99

01:23:18.000 Here we go.

01:23:20.000 I'm the first black man to receive the costume design award.

01:23:29.000 Huge.

01:23:31.000 He broke that glass ceiling.

01:23:32.000 That was the remaining glass ceiling, guys.

01:23:43.000 We beat racism.

01:23:45.000 Thank you, everyone in the UK, for all of your beautiful work.

01:23:49.000 I could not have done this without you.

01:23:50.000 Until this very moment, until this very moment, when a black man finally became the first black man to win Best Costume Design, I thought that racism really was going to triumph in America. 0.52

01:23:59.000 But now that Paul Tazewell has become the first black man to win Best Costume Design, I gotta say, man, I think we're there, guys.

01:24:07.000 I think finally we're there.

01:24:08.000 Okay, that was the whole Oscars, basically.

01:24:10.000 Conan O'Brien was fine.

01:24:11.000 He didn't do anything particularly shocking or wonderful.

01:24:14.000 He wasn't as annoying as some of the other hosts.

01:24:15.000 He wasn't Jimmy Kimmel or something.

01:24:17.000 Maybe one of the best moments for Conan was joking with Adam Sandler, who showed up in shorts and a t-shirt, basically.

01:24:23.000 For such a prestigious night, it's important that everyone is properly dressed, okay?

01:24:29.000 You're dressed well.

01:24:32.000 Adam.

01:24:35.000 Conan!

01:24:36.000 What's up, my brother?

01:24:42.000 What's going on, man?

01:24:43.000 Adam, what are you wearing?

01:24:46.000 What are you doing right now?

01:24:49.000 I'm asking you what you're wearing.

01:24:51.000 Nobody even thought about what I was wearing until you brought it up!

01:24:56.000 You're dressed like a guy playing video poker at 2 a.m., Adam.

01:24:59.000 You know what?

01:25:01.000 I like the way I look.

01:25:02.000 Because I'm a good person.

01:25:05.000 I don't care about what I wear or what I don't wear.

01:25:08.000 Goodbye!

01:25:09.000 My snazzy gym shorts and fluffy sweatshirt offend you so much that you had to mock me in front of my peers!

01:25:17.000 Okay, I'm sorry.

01:25:20.000 Okay, so some people like this.

01:25:23.000 I've been reliably informed.

01:25:26.000 I've never been a fan of Adam Sandler so far.

01:25:28.000 That is what it is.

01:25:30.000 Well, that was your Oscars review.

01:25:32.000 It was lackluster.

01:25:34.000 We're virtually all the movies this year.

01:25:35.000 Hopefully, we'll do better next year.

01:25:36.000 All right, guys, coming up, Andrew Klavan joins the show to analyze Anora, the film that won Best Picture at the Oscars last night, as well as some of the other pictures that were nominated first.

01:25:44.000 However, you have to be a Daily Wire subscriber.

01:25:46.000 If you're not a member, become a member.

01:25:48.000 Use code Shapiro.

01:25:48.000 Check out for two months free on All Annual Plans.

The Ben Shapiro Show - March 03, 2025

Trump-Zelenskyy Meeting GOES TOTALLY NUCLEAR

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