The Ben Shapiro Show - When Murder Is Apparently Totally Fine

00:00:00.000 Well, folks, there's a fire hose of news today on the show.

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00:00:33.000 It's always fascinating to determine which stories are national news stories, according to the legacy media, and which are local news stories, according to the legacy media.

00:00:41.000 It's particularly true when it comes to national crime stories.

00:00:44.000 Now, every crime story is, in its essence, a local story.

00:00:48.000 Because every crime story involves the perpetrator and the victim.

00:00:52.000 And all of that happens locally.

00:00:53.000 So unless you can identify a broad national trend springing therefrom, and basically that local news story is the hook for a discussion of the broad national trend, no local story on its own should be a national story.

00:01:05.000 But it's fascinating what kind of crime stories particularly are the ones that spark national discussions about, for example, race in America.

00:01:12.000 So according to Legacy Media, the only kinds of crime that ought to spark discussions of race in America are crimes where the alleged victim is black and the alleged suspect is white.

00:01:21.000 Those are the only ones that you will ever hear about.

00:01:23.000 Whether you're talking about George Floyd, whether you're talking about Daniel Penny, whether you're talking about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, whether you're talking about Michael Brown, anytime you have a racial conflagration, it is always...

00:01:36.000 On one side of the racial ledger, according to the legacy media, because, again, the narrative that the legacy media would push is the idea that America is a systemically racist place against black people.

00:01:46.000 And so the kind of crimes they like to cover are, of course, the ones where a white person, or in the case of George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic person, kills a person who is black.

00:01:56.000 However, the reality is that, unfortunately, on a proportionate level, it is far more common for young black men to kill people of other races than the other way around.

00:02:06.000 Now, let's be real about this, just statistically speaking.

00:02:08.000 The vast majority of murders are intraracial, meaning that most black men who are murdered are murdered by black men.

00:02:15.000 Most white men who are murdered are murdered by white men. 0.53

00:02:17.000 I believe the only race in the United States for which it is not true that the plurality or majority of killings inside the race are committed by other members of the same race are Asians.

00:02:26.000 I believe that for Asian men, the preponderance of killers are outside the Asian race. 0.99

00:02:32.000 However... When it comes to interracial crime, which, again, the media like to use as a proxy for discussions about the evils of the state of race in the United States, there's only one type of story they like to track, and that, of course, is white on black crime.

00:02:44.000 The reality, as I say, is that, proportionately speaking, black on white crime is significantly more common.

00:02:49.000 And that is why I think it is worth noting the case of Carmelo Anthony, not the basketball star that would be spelled with a C. This is Carmelo Anthony with a K. Austin Metcalf.

00:03:04.000 So Austin Metcalf was a football player in Frisco, Texas, and he had a confrontation with the aforementioned Carmelo Anthony.

00:03:13.000 Carmelo Anthony is black.

00:03:15.000 Austin Metcalf was white.

00:03:17.000 And according to the police reports, there was some sort of confrontation inside an athletic tent.

00:03:21.000 Basically, some tents had been put up at a football game, and Carmelo Anthony was not supposed to be in that tent.

00:03:26.000 He was actually sitting in that tent, and the football players for the opposing school.

00:03:32.000 We're in the tent.

00:03:33.000 And according to the police report, the white guy, Austin Metcalfe, went into the tent and said to Carmelo Anthony, you don't belong in here, at which point a confrontation ensued.

00:03:44.000 Carmelo Anthony allegedly reached into his backpack, pulled out a knife, and stabbed Austin Metcalfe to death in front of everybody else, then tried to run away and threw away the knife.

00:03:51.000 That is according to the police reports.

00:03:53.000 Not only that, according to Officer Eduardo Cortez, he says that...

00:04:00.000 He was the person who was assigned to bring the suspect, Carmelo Anthony, to the police vehicle and take him off to jail for his booking.

00:04:11.000 And here is his police report.

00:04:13.000 He says,

00:04:37.000 I conducted another pat-down of his person and searched his person after he gave me consent,

00:04:56.000 no weapons located.

00:04:57.000 While the suspect sat on the ground, I advised I had the alleged suspect.

00:05:00.000 The suspect then responded and said, quote, I'm not alleged.

00:05:02.000 I did it.

00:05:04.000 Apparently, as they were walking to the squad car, the suspect was emotional and said he put his hands on me.

00:05:08.000 I told him not to.

00:05:10.000 He said I did not question the suspect about the incident while he was escorted to the patrol vehicle.

00:05:15.000 So another officer named Alan Fisher talked to the brother of the victim.

00:05:18.000 He said I asked him what happened.

00:05:19.000 He stated they were all sitting on the bleachers under a Memorial High School tent when another male, who he did not know, walked over and sat under the tent.

00:05:25.000 Apparently, this person then said Austin, the victim, told this male that since he'd not go to Memorial, he had to leave the tent.

00:05:30.000 Austin, the male, went back and forth.

00:05:32.000 Then Austin stood up and pushed the male to get him out of the tent.

00:05:34.000 At this point, during the time of arguing, the male was reaching around in the bag he had.

00:05:37.000 This time, the male took out a knife and stabbed Austin and then left the scene.

00:05:41.000 Now again, this sounds like a confrontation that escalated to the point where Carmelo Anthony pulled a knife out of his backpack and then stabbed Austin Metcalfe to death.

00:05:49.000 Now the case presumably he's going to be making in court is that it was self-defense that he was in fear for his life.

00:05:54.000 Because another student was pushing him.

00:05:56.000 That's going to be a very difficult case to make.

00:05:58.000 He had a knife in his backpack.

00:05:59.000 He pulled out the knife.

00:06:00.000 That is a deadly weapon.

00:06:01.000 Pushing is not a deadly weapon.

00:06:03.000 But the sort of more sympathetic case to Carmelo Anthony would be that he was sitting there and somebody told him to leave, pushed him, he turned around, he stabbed him, and it was because he felt that he had to in order to defend himself.

00:06:14.000 Okay, here's where it starts to get very dicey.

00:06:16.000 Not just in terms of the criminal case.

00:06:17.000 It starts to get very dicey in terms of the GoFundMe that was then set up for Carmelo Anthony.

00:06:21.000 So, a GoFundMe was set up for Carmelo Anthony.

00:06:24.000 And it immediately raised hundreds of thousands of dollars.

00:06:28.000 Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

00:06:30.000 Now, imagine a reverse scenario in which the races were reversed here and a GoFundMe was set up for the family.

00:06:37.000 Would there be any doubt the media would be all over it talking about how terrible it would be for a white student who stabbed to death a black student after being pushed to receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in GoFundMe money?

00:06:50.000 Apparently, the money was then used, according to the New York Post.

00:06:55.000 According to the New York Post, Carmelo Anthony is holed up with his family at the pricey home inside the gated community of Richwoods in Frisco, Texas, after he was released from jail Monday on a reduced $250,000 bond for allegedly killing Austin Metcalf earlier this month.

00:07:08.000 The home had a white Suburban, a black Acura, and a third sedan in the driveway on Tuesday, according to the outlet.

00:07:14.000 A neighbor said the family had just bought a new ride.

00:07:17.000 He got a new car, the resident told the outlet.

00:07:19.000 Residents in the gated community were allegedly unaware the family was living at the home until Anthony was released on Monday.

00:07:25.000 Another neighbor told the outlet that Anthony's family is not poor if they live in a gated community.

00:07:30.000 Again, this is all controversial stuff.

00:07:38.000 We have to wait for all the facts to come out in the particular case.

00:07:41.000 However, it is worthwhile noting that, again, the basic sort of Narrative that would be drawn if the races were reversed would be about systemic American races.

00:07:51.000 You might even have a story about privileged white Americans beating up on black Americans if, in fact, this kid comes from a relatively well-off background.

00:07:58.000 You're not going to get anything like the reverse.

00:08:01.000 We have a series called Facts.

00:08:03.000 That series goes through some of the facts that are relevant to the interracial crime narrative.

00:08:09.000 So I'm going to bring that to you now.

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00:08:18.000 Here is our episode of Facts discussing interracial crime statistics in the United States.

00:08:23.000 Warning. This episode includes discussions and depictions of sensitive historical events involving racial violence.

00:08:29.000 The material is presented for educational and documentary purposes to provide context and insight.

00:08:34.000 Viewer discretion is advised.

00:08:37.000 You've been told that black Americans are being violently victimized by white Americans.

00:08:41.000 White supremacy.

00:08:42.000 White supremacist.

00:08:43.000 White supremacist terrorism.

00:08:44.000 White supremacy.

00:08:45.000 White supremacy groups.

00:08:46.000 White supremacy is waging a war against us.

00:08:49.000 Every major media story about interracial violence of the last 20 years has featured a black American being harmed by a white American.

00:08:55.000 You know their names.

00:08:56.000 George Floyd.

00:08:57.000 Ahmed Arbery.

00:08:58.000 Breonna Taylor, who was shot by the cops accidentally when her boyfriend started shooting at the cops.

00:09:03.000 Trayvon Martin, who was shot by a Hispanic man under disputed circumstances, but close enough.

00:09:08.000 Whenever a black person is shot by a white person, the media are all over it.

00:09:12.000 Joe Biden does press conferences and invites the victim to the White House.

00:09:15.000 Benjamin Crump shows up on CNN and MSNBC to complain about the inherent victimhood of black existence in America.

00:09:21.000 20 million people go out in the streets to protest in the middle of June 2020.

00:09:25.000 Joy Reid sets her hair on fire.

00:09:27.000 Here's the statistical reality.

00:09:29.000 White Americans are significantly more likely to be victimized by black Americans than black Americans are to be victimized by white Americans when it comes to violent crime.

00:09:37.000 The stats are not close.

00:09:44.000 Now, let's start with a simple fact.

00:09:47.000 Nearly all crime is intraracial. 0.91

00:09:49.000 White on white, black on black, Hispanic on Hispanic. 0.85

00:09:53.000 The only group for which that is not true is Asian Americans.

00:09:56.000 But... When it comes to black versus white crimes, or white versus black crimes, black Americans are far more likely to be perps than victims.

00:10:04.000 According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics citing the National Crime Victimization Survey, in 2019, there were 562,550 interracial crimes concerning blacks and whites.

00:10:14.000 89,980 of those crimes featured a white perp and a black victim.

00:10:19.000 472,570 of those crimes featured a black perp and a white victim.

00:10:24.000 In other words, 84% of violent interactions involving black and white people involved black people victimizing white people. 0.71

00:10:32.000 That's not a statistical aberration.

00:10:34.000 A common argument that you hear all the time is that, well, maybe the problem is that when white people attack black people, or when black people attack white people, that maybe not all of it is getting reported.

00:10:43.000 Maybe it's a reporting problem.

00:10:44.000 Well, this is why murder is a useful statistic.

00:10:46.000 Because murder is always reported.

00:10:48.000 There's an actual dead body.

00:10:50.000 You can't hide behind dumb arguments about white crime being underreported or black crime being overreported when it comes to dead people. 0.61

00:10:56.000 Every year, the number of whites killed by blacks exceeds by a factor of about two, the number of blacks killed by whites.

00:11:02.000 Let's take 2019.

00:11:03.000 According to FBI statistics, there were 3,299 white Americans murdered that year.

00:11:08.000 2,594 of them, 79%, were killed by white perpetrators.

00:11:13.000 566, 17%, were killed by black perpetrators.

00:11:19.000 2,906 black Americans were murdered that same year.

00:11:22.000 2,574 of them, 89% were killed by black perpetrators.

00:11:27.000 246, 8% were killed by white perpetrators.

00:11:29.000 Compare those two numbers.

00:11:31.000 566 white Americans were killed by black Americans.

00:11:34.000 Only 246 black Americans were killed by white Americans.

00:11:37.000 Now, let's adjust for population size, because it turns out there are a lot more white people in America than black people.

00:11:43.000 So, generally, you'd expect to see if all the other factors were equal, Way better to pretend that the criminal justice

00:12:13.000 system is discriminatory than to acknowledge the obvious truth.

00:12:17.000 Disproportionate crime among black populations. 1.00

00:12:19.000 But ignoring that problem doesn't make it go away.

00:12:21.000 It makes the problem worse, and the people who generally suffer are not white Americans. 0.58

00:12:24.000 They are black Americans.

00:12:26.000 According to Alan Beck of the Bureau of Justice Statistics, quote, relative to their share of the U.S. population, 60%, white people were underrepresented among offenders in non-fatal violent crimes overall, 52%.

00:12:37.000 They accounted for 45% of offenders involved in aggravated assault and 31% of offenders involved in robbery.

00:12:43.000 Black people were overrepresented among offenders in non-fatal violent crimes overall, 29%, relative to their share of the U.S. population, 13%.

00:12:52.000 Half of all offenders involved in robbery, 51%, a third involved in aggravated assault, 34%, more than a fifth involved in simple assault, 23%, and rape or sexual assault, 22%, were black.

00:13:04.000 According to Pew Research Center, black men are the most likely to go to prison.

00:13:07.000 There were 2,272 inmates per 100,000 black men in 2018.

00:13:11.000 Compared with 392 inmates per 100,000 white men.

00:13:15.000 In 2018, black Americans represented 33% of the sentenced prison population, nearly triple their 12-13% share of the U.S. adult population.

00:13:24.000 Whites accounted for 30% of prisoners, about half their share of the adult population.

00:13:28.000 According to another study printed in the journal Science Advances, Lifetime risk of imprisonment for black males rose from more than 1 in 5, about 20%, in 1986, to nearly 1 in 2, about 49.6%, in 2004.

00:13:41.000 before falling to roughly 1 in 6, 16.2% in 2016.

00:13:45.000 Even though the current number is way lower than the prior numbers, it's still way higher than ever recorded among white men.

00:13:51.000 So, why is this happening?

00:13:53.000 Why disproportionate crime in the black community? 1.00

00:13:55.000 The single most obvious factor correlating with violent crime is lack of fathers in the home.

00:14:01.000 According to the Institute for Family Studies, only 37% of black children are living in a home headed by their biological parents.

00:14:07.000 72% of black fathers have had a child out of wedlock.

00:14:11.000 Studies show the number of fathers in a neighborhood can actually help alleviate the problem of lack of fathers directly in the home.

00:14:16.000 There's a network effect, a neighborhood effect, but it's rare to find a black neighborhood with a lot of present fathers.

00:14:22.000 As a study from Harvard, Stanford, and the U.S. Census Bureau found, just 4.2% of black kids currently grow up in areas with a poverty rate below 10% and more than half of black fathers present.

00:14:33.000 That compares to 63% of white kids.

00:14:35.000 Now, there are those who will argue that it's white racism that's causing the absence of black fathers.

00:14:40.000 That's a weird argument given the fact that in 1960, when white racism was really a serious American problem, less than a quarter of black children were born to unwed mothers.

00:14:49.000 Today, that number is like 72%.

00:14:51.000 So as racism in the United States plummeted, the rate of single motherhood in the black community went up.

00:14:57.000 Blaming racism for the rise in single motherhood makes no sense statistically speaking.

00:15:01.000 Differential crime rates don't have anything to do with inborn racial differences.

00:15:04.000 This isn't actually about race.

00:15:06.000 It has to do with behavior.

00:15:08.000 When you incentivize father absence, crime goes up.

00:15:11.000 When you fail to police crime, crime goes up.

00:15:13.000 When you make excuses for black on white violence or pretend that the real problem of violent crime in America is white on black, crime goes up, particularly among the populations who are being ignored, black Americans. 0.65

00:15:24.000 Again, why is all of that relevant?

00:15:33.000 The reason that all of that is relevant is because when you are talking about the sorts of narratives that the legacy media would proclaim as important, those are the kinds of narratives that they will never talk about.

00:15:42.000 And they are important because again, if you actually wish to reduce, for example, interracial crime, then you want to look at where the interracial crime is actually occurring.

00:15:51.000 And you want to focus in on case

00:15:52.000 We'll get to more on this in a moment.

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00:18:02.000 Unfortunately for the left, certain types of violence are to be either ignored or to be justified.

00:18:08.000 So last night on Sean Hannity's show, he had on Taylor Lorenz.

00:18:11.000 Taylor Lorenz used to be a journalist for the Washington Post.

00:18:13.000 She now works for Mehdi Hassan at his new outlet.

00:18:16.000 And she is an absolute horror show of a human being. 1.00

00:18:20.000 She has made her bones lately by celebrating the murder of the United Healthcare CEO was killed by Luigi Mangione.

00:18:27.000 She's sort of a fanboy of Luigi Mangione because she thinks that he's good looking and she has a sort of a crush on him.

00:18:33.000 She obviously has a screw loose.

00:18:34.000 Here she was on Sean Hannity's show proclaiming her support for the violence.

00:18:40.000 Simple question.

00:18:41.000 Do you condemn that?

00:18:44.000 Can you take a moral stand and condemn that?

00:18:47.000 What I condemn is the violence of our system, and I would love for you to acknowledge that.

00:18:51.000 I'm not asking you to condemn the system.

00:18:54.000 Taylor, do you condemn people that call for assassination?

00:18:58.000 Gosh, you're going to ask if I condemn Hamas next. 0.63

00:19:00.000 This is crazy.

00:19:01.000 I would love for you to acknowledge what I'm actually saying, Sean, and we seem to be talking past each other.

00:19:06.000 I want to talk about the fact that half of all adults get for delay because of cost.

00:19:11.000 We need to talk about that 70% of Americans, by the way, believe that the insurance company practices are responsible in part for Thompson's debt.

00:19:18.000 These are signs of an unhealthy...

00:19:19.000 You want to put a rationalization.

00:19:21.000 I am saying anybody that wants to assassinate any innocent person is wrong.

00:19:25.000 I don't care if it's a Democrat or Republican or a father or a husband.

00:19:31.000 That is a simple truth that anyone with a heart would easily say on national TV that you're having a hard time with.

00:19:40.000 Okay, so again, this is the left justifying violence on the basis of the politics.

00:19:46.000 And this is the theme.

00:19:47.000 And the running theme of today shows that depending on whom the violence is directed at and whom the violence, who perpetrates the violence, we can tell who the media will side with, whether they will ignore the story or whatever.

00:20:00.000 Another great example of this.

00:20:02.000 Just this week, targeting a Democrat, by the way, not targeting a healthcare CEO.

00:20:07.000 So it turns out that the person who set fire to Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence on Sunday indicated that he was motivated by his views on Israel and Gaza, according to the Washington Post, and believed that Josh Shapiro needed to stop the killing of Palestinians.

00:20:21.000 Now, Josh Shapiro is the governor of Pennsylvania.

00:20:23.000 He's not the president of the United States.

00:20:25.000 He has zero plenary power over foreign policy of the United States, even if you were to agree with this guy.

00:20:29.000 But the reason that the media aren't playing this up as an act of politically motivated attempted murder.

00:20:35.000 is because much of the media agrees with this guy.

00:20:37.000 Imagine if this were a right-wing or Trump supporter who had decided to try and kill Josh Shapiro.

00:20:42.000 That would be a narrative for the rest of the year, minimum.

00:20:45.000 You would never hear the end of it.

00:20:46.000 It would be right-wing violence being bred by the podcast sphere in order to target people like Josh Shapiro.

00:20:53.000 But because the person who decided to try and kill Josh Shapiro and his family is apparently a psychotic left-winger who hates Shapiro because Shapiro's a Jew and too pro-Israel for his like.

00:21:03.000 The media are not going to talk about the problem of radical anti-Israel feeling leading to violence, despite the fact that it very often in the past year or so has led to violence.

00:21:14.000 And certain types of violence are not to be discussed, to be ignored, or to be downplayed.

00:21:19.000 That is also true with regard to illegal immigrant crime.

00:21:22.000 So yesterday, the White House, in an attempt to push back on the narrative that is being pushed by the legacy media that the...

00:21:29.000 The people who are being deported from the United States are all innocent and wonderful and all the rest, and the administration doesn't care about Americans.

00:21:35.000 They put forth an angel mom. 0.99

00:21:40.000 That angel mom's name is Patty Morin. 0.96

00:21:42.000 She's the mother of a woman brutally slain by an illegal immigrant named Victor Antonio Martinez Hernandez as she was exercising on a Maryland trail.

00:21:49.000 This is according to DailyWire.com, Mary Margaret Olihan reporting.

00:21:52.000 The 23-year-old murderer was arrested in June in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and charged with first-degree murder and first-degree rape in Rachel Morin's death.

00:22:00.000 And here is what the angel mom had to say.

00:22:03.000 Again, this receives almost zero legacy media coverage because they treated it as an irrelevant story.

00:22:08.000 To have a senator from Maryland who didn't even acknowledge or barely acknowledge my daughter and the brutal death that she endured, leaving her five children without a mother and now a grandbaby without a grandmother.

00:22:29.000 So that he can use my taxpayer money to fly to El Salvador to bring back someone that's not even an American citizen.

00:22:40.000 Why does that person have more right than I do or my daughter or my grandchildren?

00:22:51.000 I don't understand this.

00:22:55.000 Okay, for the Legacy Media, this was not worthy of coverage because again, An illegal immigrant murdering an American is not worthy of coverage. 1.00

00:23:02.000 It is heavy coverage when an illegal immigrant with a pretty significant violent history, apparently, is deported.

00:23:09.000 Even if the due process concerns are a real concern, the level of sympathy that is being put forward by the media and the attempt to sanctify Kilma Abrego Garcia stands in stark contrast to the way that they are treating people like Patty Morin, whose daughter was beat to death with rock.

00:23:26.000 It's pretty incredible stuff.

00:23:28.000 The person she is referring to there is, of course, Senator Chris Van Hollen.

00:23:31.000 Van Hollen headed down to El Salvador to try and visit the prison at which illegal immigrants are being held, deported illegal immigrants.

00:23:38.000 Chris Van Hollen said, they won't let me talk with the deported man.

00:23:41.000 He went down there to apparently make a show of his sympathy for this wonderful deported man.

00:23:46.000 We'll get to the details on the deported man in a moment.

00:23:49.000 So I asked the vice president if I could meet with Mr. Abrego Garcia.

00:23:53.000 And he said, well, you need to make earlier...

00:23:57.000 Provisions to go visit Seacott.

00:23:59.000 I said I'm not interested at this moment in taking a tour of Seacott.

00:24:04.000 I just want to meet with Mr. Abrego Garcia.

00:24:07.000 He said he was not able to make that happen.

00:24:09.000 So I asked him if I could get on the phone, either a video phone or just a phone, and talk to Mr. Abrego Garcia.

00:24:18.000 He said he could not arrange that.

00:24:20.000 He said maybe if the American Embassy were to ask, maybe that could happen.

00:24:28.000 So much sympathy for Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

00:24:30.000 Now again, if you want to protest, lack of due process, you should be standing in front of the courts.

00:24:35.000 You should be standing in front of the White House, flying down to El Salvador to show sympathy for a man who, according to the UK Daily Mail, is violently accused by his own wife of beating her up multiple times.

00:24:48.000 Bad look for Democrats.

00:24:49.000 But again, that's the sort of stuff that gets brushed under the rug in service of a larger narrative.

00:24:52.000 Apparently, according to the Daily Mail, Abrego Garcia, 29. Was deported from Maryland to El Salvador by the Trump administration over connections to MS-13.

00:25:00.000 His wife accused her husband of violently beating her multiple times in a 2021 court filing exclusively obtained by the Daily Mail.

00:25:08.000 In November 2020, he hit her with his work boots.

00:25:11.000 In August 2020, he hit her in the eye, causing her to get a black eye, according to her petition.

00:25:15.000 That same day, Abrego Garcia started driving quickly, scaring his wife, as their one-year-old was in the backseat.

00:25:21.000 She said she was afraid to be close to him.

00:25:23.000 In May 2021, after an argument at a gas station, the Salvadoran migrant punched and scratched his wife, leaving me bleeding. 0.50

00:25:29.000 Remember, this is a person who was pitched by the media as Marilyn Father.

00:25:33.000 Marilyn Father.

00:25:34.000 Sounds like a wonderful, wonderful person.

00:25:36.000 It turns out, by the way, that according to Robbie Starbuck, Tennessee Highway Patrol caught the same Abrego Garcia in 2022, driving without a license, and suspected him of trafficking the seven people inside.

00:25:48.000 When they called Joe Biden's FBI because he was on the terror watch list, The FBI told them to photograph everybody and let them go.

00:25:55.000 Sounds like a wonderful person.

00:25:57.000 So glad that Democrats have decided precisely where to place their sympathies.

00:26:01.000 What kinds of crime are worthy of reporting on and which kinds of crime are not worthy of reporting on.

00:26:07.000 And it is precisely for this reason.

00:26:09.000 That because Democrats have picked some of the worst people in humanity to spend their empathy and sympathy on, Americans are likely to ignore some of the due process concerns about, for example, this person because it's a totally unsympathetic victim.

00:26:24.000 So Chris Van Hollen, again, down in El Salvador, he says that according to the El Salvador vice president, the reason that this guy is being held there is because Trump is paying.

00:26:32.000 The point that Van Hollen is making is that the Trump administration has claimed they no longer have control over whether Abrego Garcia comes back to the United States for one final hearing before he's deported permanently.

00:26:41.000 He's saying that.

00:26:42.000 And his answer was that The Trump administration is paying El Salvador, the government of El Salvador, to keep him at sea cut.

00:27:00.000 Again, multiple things can be true at once.

00:27:03.000 One can be that the due process concerns that are being raised by the courts are legitimate concerns and the Trump administration should deal with them.

00:27:08.000 The other is that Democrats have politically decided to spend their empathy and sympathy on some of the worst people in humanity, truly.

00:27:15.000 And to ignore particular types of crime that don't fit the thing they are attempting to push.

00:27:19.000 Now, speaking of the due process concerns, yesterday, Judge James Bosberg, you'll remember him, from the hearings where he suggested that planes of migrants from Venezuela needed to be turned around midair, and then they were not.

00:27:31.000 And the Trump administration claimed, well, we did keep some planes on the ground.

00:27:34.000 Other planes were already in the air.

00:27:35.000 There was nothing we could do.

00:27:36.000 It was an oral order.

00:27:37.000 It wasn't a written order and all the rest.

00:27:38.000 Now, Boesburg says he's going to launch proceedings to determine whether any Trump administration officials defied his order not to remove those Venezuelan migrants from the country.

00:27:46.000 Now, this is kind of a weird filing by Boesburg in the sense that the Supreme Court has already decided that the Trump administration can use the Alien Enemies Act.

00:27:55.000 We'll get to more of this in a moment.

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00:30:07.000 Oracle. And second of all, the Supreme Court has also decided that this case was filed in the wrong place.

00:30:15.000 It shouldn't have been filed in Washington, D.C. It should have been filed in the place closest to El Salvador, which is actually at a federal court on the southern border.

00:30:22.000 Nonetheless, Bosberg is now trying to suggest that he is going to hold in contempt members of the Department of Justice for not listening to his judicial orders.

00:30:32.000 Democrats, of course, are celebrating all of this because they are saying it just underscores.

00:30:36.000 The unwillingness of the Trump administration to follow the law.

00:30:40.000 Attorney General Pambandi fought back against Bosberg yesterday.

00:30:43.000 Here's what she had to say.

00:30:45.000 And Will, he came in on an emergency basis on a Saturday with very, very short notice, if any, to our attorney to run in the courtroom.

00:30:54.000 You know, and this has been a pattern with these liberal judges.

00:30:56.000 You just spoke about that.

00:30:57.000 It's been a pattern with what they've been doing.

00:30:59.000 This judge had no right to do that.

00:31:02.000 They're meddling in foreign affairs.

00:31:04.000 They're meddling in our government.

00:31:06.000 And the question should be, why is a judge trying to protect terrorists who have invaded our country over American citizens?

00:31:16.000 Okay, so again, that's going to be the angle from the Trump administration, and it isn't a terrible angle, specifically because Democrats picked the exact wrong people to defend.

00:31:26.000 And meanwhile, the State Department continues to do good work in terms of deporting many of the worst people in the United States.

00:31:34.000 The Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, joined us online yesterday to discuss all of this, to talk about what the State Department has been doing.

00:31:41.000 Not only has the State Department been deporting people who Come to the United States on things like student visas and lie about their actual belief systems and what they are here to do.

00:31:50.000 But also, the State Department yesterday shut down a branch of the State Department that is specifically designed very often to target American information that the left doesn't particularly like.

00:32:00.000 Here's my interview with Secretary Rubio.

00:32:02.000 Joining us online, Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

00:32:05.000 Secretary Rubio, thanks so much for joining the show.

00:32:06.000 Really appreciate it.

00:32:07.000 Thank you.

00:32:08.000 Thanks for having me on.

00:32:10.000 So, let's talk about this major move that...

00:32:12.000 You just made at the State Department getting rid of a big chunk of the censorship bureaucracy that had been created and pushed a while back, but then exacerbated over the course of the last few years, hidden.

00:32:24.000 What's the story with what you are doing over at the State Department to get rid of the body formerly known as the Global Engagement Center?

00:32:31.000 Yeah, I think you have to understand the history behind it.

00:32:33.000 It's real brief.

00:32:34.000 You know, they started it by saying, you know, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, all these terrible groups are radicalizing people online.

00:32:40.000 We should do something about it.

00:32:41.000 And, you know, back when they came up with that 12 years ago, whatever it was, people were like, you know, whatever makes sense.

00:32:45.000 And then it metastasized.

00:32:47.000 And it's like, oh, there's foreign interference in our elections.

00:32:49.000 We need to start going after that.

00:32:51.000 Well, then, by 2020, it became a movement to go after voices inside of American politics and begin to label people.

00:32:57.000 And they put a guy in charge.

00:32:59.000 Who basically was going around saying Trump speaks just like these foreign terrorists.

00:33:04.000 His supporters speak just like these foreign terrorists. 0.99

00:33:07.000 So now you have an individual running a State Department entity that was labeling American speech by Americans as foreign interference.

00:33:15.000 And then really the kicker was not only were they doing all that formally from the State Department.

00:33:20.000 But they were taking State Department money and they were giving it to these third-party groups who were supposed to be like independent, you know, verified arbiters of what's true and what isn't, what's good and what's bad.

00:33:30.000 And these groups were deliberately targeting.

00:33:32.000 I believe you were one of the ones they targeted.

00:33:35.000 I think the Federalists began putting labels on people.

00:33:38.000 Now, you may say, okay, well, what's the importance of the label?

00:33:40.000 Well, that's not just the issue here.

00:33:41.000 The issue is not only did they put labels on people, that was then used to go to social media companies, it was used to go to outlets and say, you have to deplatform these people, or you have to cut back on how much views they're getting, you have to go after them, in essence, silence them.

00:33:54.000 So, in essence, it metastasized the metamorphosis into a government-run entity that was targeting political speech in America, labeling it disinformation.

00:34:07.000 And silencing it.

00:34:08.000 All paid for by the American taxpayers directly and indirectly.

00:34:12.000 And that ends.

00:34:14.000 So what happened when we took over, right before we took over, they got rid of this global engagement seminar.

00:34:18.000 They renamed it and moved it somewhere else.

00:34:20.000 But, you know, renaming something doesn't change it.

00:34:22.000 You still leave the thing around.

00:34:24.000 So we've undertaken, you know, 12 weeks of looking, how do we reorganize this whole thing?

00:34:29.000 How do we get rid of it?

00:34:30.000 And that's what we're announcing today is we're taking the whole thing down.

00:34:33.000 And it's about $50 million.

00:34:35.000 I mean, it's not a small amount of money.

00:34:36.000 And we're not going to be in the business of doing this anymore.

00:34:39.000 In fact, we're going to be in the business of promoting free speech in America and around the world as a core American value.

00:34:47.000 And that really is what we're going to be about right now.

00:34:50.000 And we're also going to go back and look at, as an accountability project, all of the instances in which this was used as a weapon.

00:34:59.000 And the reason why that's important is not just because of accountability, it's to make sure it never happens again.

00:35:03.000 You document these things so that someone in the future, when they get some bright idea like this, realize, you know, why we shouldn't do it, because this is what it turns into.

00:35:13.000 And Secretary Rubio, it's a really good object lesson in what happens with some of these government agencies, which start off decades ago with the right purposes and then gradually are infiltrated by people with a significant political partisan agenda.

00:35:26.000 We've seen this in USAID.

00:35:31.000 Obviously, we see this here with the GEC turned into another sort of body that was then hidden inside these agencies.

00:35:38.000 And when people like President Trump talk about the deep state, this is the kind of stuff that he's talking about.

00:35:43.000 Yeah, so USAID is another great example.

00:35:46.000 Humanitarian aid.

00:35:47.000 It was created for development and humanitarian aid.

00:35:49.000 Where it really went off the rails is when humanitarian aid and development aid was turned into how do we infuse domestic political priorities into what we fund around the world.

00:36:00.000 So when it became a domestic political priority to take on transgender rights, now all of a sudden you've got programs by Americans couched as humanitarian or development aid in other countries around the world.

00:36:12.000 In essence, they injected domestic political considerations.

00:36:18.000 We're going to continue to do humanitarian aid.

00:36:23.000 What we're not going to do is use humanitarian aid to spread a domestic ideological movement globally.

00:36:30.000 We're not going to do that.

00:36:33.000 Secretary Rubio, obviously this is a big move by the State Department.

00:36:37.000 You make a lot of moves over at the State Department that are different than your predecessors.

00:36:41.000 That includes moves to...

00:36:43.000 Get out of the United States people who are terror supporters, not just people who say bad things, but people who are actual terror supporters act in ways that are conducive to actual terror groups.

00:36:52.000 I wanted to give you a moment to sort of explain the approach that the State Department is taking in taking a look at, for example, student visa holders.

00:37:00.000 What are the standards that are being used to determine whether somebody should stay in the United States or should go?

00:37:05.000 Because obviously opponents of the administration are arguing it's violations of free speech.

00:37:08.000 People have the ability to say what they want.

00:37:10.000 That's not an argument that the administration is actually arguing with.

00:37:14.000 The administration is not trying to crack down on free speech.

00:37:16.000 You're trying to actually stop something else.

00:37:18.000 Yeah, well, let's start with the baseline.

00:37:20.000 Okay, no one is entitled to a student visa to enter the United States.

00:37:23.000 No one.

00:37:24.000 It's not a constitutional right.

00:37:25.000 It's not a law.

00:37:26.000 Every day, consular officers on the ground in face-to-face interviews.

00:37:31.000 We're denying people visas for all kinds of reasons.

00:37:33.000 Because we think you're going to overstay, because we think your family member is a member of a drug ring, whatever it may be.

00:37:40.000 We deny visas every day all over the world.

00:37:42.000 No one's entitled to a visa.

00:37:43.000 Let's start with that.

00:37:44.000 Because I hear some of this reporting out there, like if somehow you're allowed to have a visa unless we can come up with a reason why you shouldn't have one.

00:37:51.000 That's not true.

00:37:52.000 The burden of proof is the other way.

00:37:53.000 Now, let's say you go to a window somewhere in the world and say, I want to go to the United States to study at a university.

00:37:59.000 And as part of that interview, it comes out, you think Hamas is actually a good group. 0.99

00:38:03.000 We probably would not let you in.

00:38:04.000 I would hope we wouldn't let you in.

00:38:06.000 But let's say we don't ask you that question.

00:38:08.000 And you get into the U.S. on a student visa, and all of a sudden it becomes obvious, you think Hamas is a good group. 0.89

00:38:14.000 Well, then we should revoke your visa.

00:38:16.000 In essence, if we learned things about you once you're here that would have caused us to deny you a visa when you were overseas, that's grounds for revocation.

00:38:25.000 It is not in the national interest of the United States.

00:38:27.000 It's not in our foreign policy interest.

00:38:29.000 It's not in our national security interest to invite people onto our university campuses who are not just going to go there to study physics or engineering, but who are also going to go there to foment movements that support and excuse foreign terrorist organizations who are committed to the destruction of the United States and the killing.

00:38:49.000 And the raping and the kidnapping of innocent civilians, not just in Israel, but anywhere they can get their hands on them.

00:38:55.000 That's not in our national interest.

00:38:57.000 So we have a right to deny visas before you get here, and we have a right to revoke them if we believe that your presence in our country undermines our national interest, our national security, and our foreign policy.

00:39:07.000 And that's what we intend to do.

00:39:08.000 Now listen, there are other student visas that are being canceled that have nothing to do with us, by the way.

00:39:12.000 And that has to do with someone, for example, who is here on a student visa and has a DUI.

00:39:17.000 And I don't know.

00:39:18.000 That's not us.

00:39:19.000 That's DHS.

00:39:19.000 But I don't know if people realize if you commit a crime while you're in the U.S., that's an automatic grounds for revoking your visa.

00:39:25.000 And no one was ever doing it.

00:39:26.000 They weren't doing it.

00:39:27.000 They weren't cross-referencing the system.

00:39:29.000 Now they're starting to do that.

00:39:31.000 So that's the majority of these.

00:39:32.000 But we have identified.

00:39:33.000 I can't tell you the exact number because it's static and it's constantly moving.

00:39:36.000 But when someone is presented to me and it's clear that this person is a supporter of a foreign terrorist organization, we're going to remove them from the country.

00:39:44.000 You're not going to be here.

00:39:45.000 It's just that simple.

00:39:46.000 What a stupid thing.

00:39:48.000 What a ridiculous thing to invite people in your country so they can be part of these movements that are terrorizing fellow students, tearing up campuses, shutting down campuses.

00:39:57.000 We have campuses in America that couldn't even operate for weeks.

00:40:00.000 People couldn't go to class.

00:40:01.000 Are we crazy?

00:40:03.000 What other country in the world would allow this?

00:40:05.000 We shouldn't allow it.

00:40:07.000 Secretary Rubio, I think that...

00:40:09.000 The controversy that's arisen over, for example, the detention of Mahmoud Khalil, who is one of these students at Columbia University, who has a green card, but who was also engaged in protest activities that violated the law, who obviously was sympathizing openly with terror attacks by Hamas and all the rest of this.

00:40:25.000 The sort of controversy here, there's a common thread to the opposition to the Trump administration on this stuff, which is, as you mentioned, this bizarre idea that people are somehow owed entry to the United States.

00:40:35.000 I think that ties in very strongly to the Democrats' new approach.

00:40:39.000 To what's going on with this Salvadoran migrant who's now been deported to El Salvador.

00:40:44.000 The administration has taken a legal position that basically now that he's in Salvadoran custody, that it's up to the Salvadorans whether to return this person to the United States or not for further due process concerns.

00:40:54.000 But that's really not the case that's being made by opponents of the administration.

00:40:57.000 Many of the opponents of the administration are making a more significant case, which is the idea that basically if you get into the United States, you are somehow owed.

00:41:04.000 A permanent status in the United States.

00:41:07.000 And you're seeing this across the board, ranging from the Trump administration's moves to get rid of temporary protected status for people who have entered en masse under the Biden administration, to the resistance to DHS or the State Department making moves with regard to the tens of millions, possibly, of illegal immigrants who've been brought into the country by the Biden administration.

00:41:23.000 There's this bizarre supposition that everyone on Earth is somehow owed passage to the United States and permanent membership in our society.

00:41:31.000 Yeah, and I think it explains to you why we have the immigration crisis that we had.

00:41:34.000 And it was the belief, they would all say, we believe we should have immigration laws, of course, but if you get into the United States, you should be allowed to stay. 0.96

00:41:42.000 If you make it here illegally, no matter how you got here, then you should be allowed to stay. 1.00

00:41:46.000 I mean, I think that that mindset that's being revealed in these cases tell you how you get 12, 13, 14, 20 million people entering the country unlawfully and illegally over the last few years because of this mindset that, yeah, we have immigration laws, but we don't really mean it.

00:42:00.000 Once you get in, you should be allowed to stay here indefinitely, and we have some sort of obligation to accommodate you here in the country.

00:42:06.000 That's how you create this mindset that led to that crisis, and people know it.

00:42:10.000 It's all incentive-based.

00:42:11.000 People believed under Joe Biden, rightfully they believed, if I could just get across the border, I'm going to get to stay.

00:42:17.000 And in 90-something percent of the cases, they were absolutely right, and that's why more people kept coming.

00:42:21.000 There's a reason why no one's coming now.

00:42:23.000 You know one of the problems I'm facing right now with countries in Central America and the Western Hemisphere?

00:42:27.000 U-turns.

00:42:28.000 A lot of people were headed here.

00:42:29.000 They realized Trump was serious.

00:42:31.000 They made a U-turn.

00:42:32.000 And now these countries are complaining,"Oh, they're stuck in my country." Well, you facilitated their transit for years.

00:42:37.000 Now they're stuck with them as a result of it.

00:42:39.000 But that's actually happening.

00:42:41.000 Why? Because the incentives are no longer to come.

00:42:43.000 The incentives are not to come.

00:42:44.000 It's been successful.

00:42:45.000 It's the most secure border we've had in my lifetime.

00:42:48.000 I mean, if you just think about it, and it's not just because there are people there, it's because people aren't coming anymore because they know that the president is serious about enforcing our immigration laws.

00:42:58.000 Well, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, really appreciate your time.

00:43:01.000 Thanks for what you're doing inside the State Department to get rid of shadow organizations designed to crack down on free speech, as well as to move people out of the United States who actually don't like America very much.

00:43:09.000 Secretary of State Rubio, thanks so much for stopping by.

00:43:12.000 Thank you.

00:43:12.000 Thanks for having me.

00:43:14.000 Meanwhile, the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped pretty significantly yesterday.

00:43:18.000 It was set to open significantly lower today, as well as a lot of dyspepsia in the markets over the Trump tariff war, obviously.

00:43:25.000 This was also prompted not only by the Trump administration's announcement that it was going to bar the export of particular chips to China from NVIDIA, which has been sinking NVIDIA stock, but also Jerome Powell yesterday warned of challenging scenarios facing the Federal Reserve.

00:43:41.000 He's saying essentially that the tariff war is likely to drive up inflation, so it makes it harder for him to drop the interest rates.

00:43:47.000 And he said he saw a strong likelihood that consumers would see higher prices and higher unemployment as a result of President Trump's tariff wars.

00:43:54.000 Here was Jerome Powell yesterday, the head of the Federal Reserve.

00:43:56.000 Tariffs are highly likely to generate at least a temporary rise in inflation.

00:44:02.000 The inflationary effects could also be more persistent.

00:44:06.000 Avoiding that outcome will depend on the size of the effects, on how long it takes for them to pass through fully to prices,

00:44:14.000 And ultimately, on keeping longer-term inflation expectations well anchored.

00:44:20.000 Powell then added, you would worry the process will take some years and that the inflationary process might be extended.

00:44:25.000 When you think about supply disruptions, that's the kind of thing that can take time to resolve.

00:44:28.000 It can lead to what would have been a one-time inflation shock to be extended, perhaps more persistent.

00:44:32.000 That means that it's unlikely that he's going to lower the interest rates.

00:44:36.000 Powell also added that the federal debt right now isn't at an unsustainable level.

00:44:40.000 Theoretically, we can get out of it.

00:44:41.000 But he said it's certainly on an unsustainable path.

00:44:43.000 So further spending, further sales of bonds in order to fund our national debt, that's probably not a good idea.

00:44:49.000 U.S. federal debt is on an unsustainable path.

00:44:52.000 It's not at an unsustainable level.

00:44:55.000 And no one really knows how much further we can go.

00:44:58.000 Other countries over time have gone much farther, but we're now, you know, we're running very large deficits at full employment.

00:45:06.000 And this is a situation that we very much need to address.

00:45:10.000 Sooner or later we'll have to, and sooner is better than later.

00:45:15.000 President Trump decided that the best solution here would be to attack Jerome Powell.

00:45:19.000 He's not going to change his economic policies.

00:45:21.000 He says the European Central Bank is expected to cut interest rates for the seventh time, and yet, quote, too late, Jerome Powell of the Fed, who is always too late and wrong.

00:45:29.000 Yesterday issued a report which was another and typical complete mess.

00:45:32.000 Oil prices are down, groceries are down, the USA is getting rich on tariffs.

00:45:36.000 Too late should have lowered interest rates, like the ECB long ago, but he certainly should lower them now.

00:45:40.000 Powell's termination cannot come fast enough.

00:45:42.000 Naturally, the stock market was like, dude.

00:45:44.000 And so the stock market dropped on the news that President Trump was going to ignore the sort of warnings that Powell is giving out about the economy.

00:45:50.000 The question is whether Powell learned his lesson or whether Trump is right and he's too late.

00:45:55.000 I think the answer is Powell learned his lesson, right?

00:45:57.000 It was Jerome Powell who spent a year saying that inflation was transitory, and then it turned out it was not transitory at all.

00:46:02.000 And the lesson he learned from that is that when you screw up the supply chains, Inflation is likely to be a persistent feature of the economy.

00:46:08.000 World trade wars are likely to lead to persistent inflation in the economy.

00:46:13.000 That's exactly what he is saying right now.

00:46:15.000 Meanwhile, the U.S.-China decoupling is arriving, according to the World Trade Organization.

00:46:20.000 The WTO anticipates trade between the U.S. and China will screech to a halt this year.

00:46:24.000 Trade of merchandise between the two countries will drop by 80%, a drop that would have topped 90% without the White House's recent exemption for smartphones and other tech goods.

00:46:33.000 The total volume of goods traded around the world is expected to contract by 0.2% this year.

00:46:37.000 That is an abrupt turnaround from a near 3% increase last year.

00:46:41.000 And the WTO is anticipating that the trade slowdown is going to spill over into weaker global growth, about 0.6 percentage points below its initial forecast.

00:46:51.000 So, what is President Trump trying to do here?

00:46:54.000 That's sort of the big question.

00:46:56.000 What is the end goal?

00:46:57.000 Well, there is something that has been called the Mar-a-Lago Accords.

00:47:01.000 Proposed by the chairman of the White House Council on Economic Advisors, a man named Stephen Morin.

00:47:05.000 He outlined that idea in a 41-page essay.

00:47:07.000 It was titled A User's Guide to Restructuring the Global Trading System.

00:47:10.000 It's according to finance.yahoo.

00:47:13.000 He's a Harvard-trained economist.

00:47:15.000 And basically, he proposes what he calls the Mar-a-Lago Accords.

00:47:19.000 He says the deep unhappiness with the prevailing economic order is rooted in persistent overvaluation of the dollar and asymmetric trade conditions.

00:47:26.000 His basic idea is that everybody should show up at Mar-a-Lago, all these various heads, various countries, and rejigger the entire global trading system so as to please the United States.

00:47:34.000 Marin wrote, President Trump views tariffs as generating negotiating leverage for making deals.

00:47:37.000 It's easier to imagine that after a series of punitive tariffs, trading partners like Europe and China become more receptive to some manner of currency accord.

00:47:44.000 To lower the value of the U.S. currency, Moran said U.S. partners could sell dollars in their possession.

00:47:50.000 What's the goal of devaluing the U.S. currency?

00:47:52.000 Presumably, the goal would be to more easily raise debt.

00:47:56.000 So the U.S. would not have to repay our debt quite as regularly.

00:47:59.000 It would limit the potential rise in interest rates caused by fear over inflation.

00:48:05.000 And there are some who call this a de facto default.

00:48:08.000 And the whole goal would be to reshore some manufacturing in the United States.

00:48:13.000 The goal would be to devalue the American dollar.

00:48:16.000 Basically pay people back in inflated dollars.

00:48:19.000 That is sort of the economic goal here.

00:48:21.000 But there may be a broader goal.

00:48:23.000 And here is the question for the Trump administration.

00:48:25.000 It's totally not clear at this point what the Trump administration approach is going to be to global politics.

00:48:31.000 Now, President Trump is a utilitarian, as I've said many times.

00:48:33.000 He lives in the world of reality.

00:48:34.000 That means he tends to pick fruit off the tree of policy.

00:48:37.000 Meaning, he tries to find the best policy, he uses that.

00:48:40.000 Then he finds the next best policy, and he uses that.

00:48:42.000 There's no kind of thoroughgoing gestalt to the Trump administration.

00:48:45.000 There are people who try to weave a gestalt around President Trump.

00:48:47.000 We try to suggest there is a thorough Trump philosophy of life and of administration that is going to be applied.

00:48:53.000 And I see no evidence of that.

00:48:54.000 It's much more sort of grab bag politics with President Trump, which definitely has its upsides and it also has its downsides.

00:49:00.000 It means that there's not a ton of predictability.

00:49:01.000 It also means he's unlikely to stick with plans that don't work.

00:49:05.000 But some of the people who are attempting to sort of weave a Trumpian philosophy around President Trump, there you would see a debate inside the administration.

00:49:16.000 That debate inside the administration is taking the form of, on one side, J.D. Vance, Steve Whitcoff, David Sachs.

00:49:24.000 On the other side of that divide would be presumably Pete Hegseth, Marco Rubio, Mike Waltz.

00:49:31.000 And the question there is one that David Sachs, I think, expressed really, really well on the All In podcast the other day.

00:49:37.000 So the case that Sachs makes, and again, David is a brilliant guy.

00:49:41.000 I think he's wrong on a lot of this, but he's quite brilliant.

00:49:43.000 He says, That the Trump agenda is basically to reverse the attitude of the United States toward everything from immigration to foreign policy, a consensus that he says was built in the 1990s.

00:49:55.000 And I think that he's right on immigration. 0.79

00:49:57.000 I think he's wrong on all the rest.

00:49:58.000 But here is what he is saying Trumpism is really all about.

00:50:01.000 Number two, we'd have open flows of trade and capital.

00:50:04.000 So basically the unfettered free trade agenda.

00:50:07.000 And then number three, the third leg of it was Pax Americana.

00:50:10.000 We'd deploy...

00:50:11.000 American troops all over the world to defend this consensus because they'd be greeted as liberators, not occupiers.

00:50:17.000 I think all three pillars have been refuted.

00:50:21.000 And the person who has represented the shift in this consensus to, I say, a new agenda of economic nationalism and geopolitical nationalism is Donald Trump.

00:50:38.000 It included both Bush Republicans and Clinton Democrats around these three pillars of globalism.

00:50:45.000 And then I'd say the country turns against that.

00:50:48.000 That's not going to be a smooth process.

00:50:50.000 That is going to be potentially a violent process.

00:50:53.000 It's going to be a disruptive process.

00:50:56.000 Okay, so what are the three pillars of globalism that he is talking about?

00:50:59.000 So he suggests three.

00:51:00.000 One is open borders.

00:51:01.000 Totally agree.

00:51:02.000 That has been rejected, not just by the United States.

00:51:04.000 It's been rejected.

00:51:05.000 All over the West, which is why you're seeing the rise of populist anti-immigration parties.

00:51:09.000 And that's totally justifiable.

00:51:11.000 The second is free trade.

00:51:12.000 He says, well, there's a great consensus about free trade and that has fallen on its face.

00:51:15.000 Free trade is bad.

00:51:16.000 Well, actually, free trade is quite good.

00:51:18.000 The question is why we let China into the club. 1.00

00:51:20.000 And so the debate that's happening inside the administration is whether free trade itself is the bad or whether free trade with China is the bad.

00:51:29.000 And it's totally unclear which side of that ledger President Trump comes down on at this point.

00:51:33.000 He seems to really like tariffs.

00:51:34.000 Again, there are people like Peter Navarro.

00:51:36.000 There are people like Howard Lutnick.

00:51:37.000 There are people like David Sacks, presumably, who are very much in favor of curbing free trade capital and all the rest of it.

00:51:44.000 That would be a really dire thing for the American economy.

00:51:47.000 The American economy is the most powerful economy on planet Earth, specifically because we have been oriented toward freedom of commerce, free trade.

00:51:57.000 This has been true for...

00:51:58.000 In terms of freedom of commerce, it's been true for legitimately a century in the United States.

00:52:02.000 And we are the dominant global power economically because of exactly this.

00:52:06.000 The idea that free trade needs to be thrown out because it's quote-unquote been debunked, I think that's a just wrong statement on its face.

00:52:12.000 And then finally, Pax Americana.

00:52:14.000 So here the idea is that America puts troops all over the world in order to...

00:52:19.000 Defend the consensus because they'd be greeted as liberators.

00:52:21.000 Well, no, actually, the Pax Americana is not based on the idea that American troops will always be greeted as liberators.

00:52:26.000 The Pax Americana is based on the idea that if we don't fill the gap, somebody we don't like will.

00:52:30.000 It has nothing to do with the feelings of the people who are on the ground.

00:52:34.000 That was the mistake that Bush made with his sort of Wilsonian foreign policy.

00:52:37.000 The idea that we had to be greeted as liberators was all about the permission of the people who we were going in and dealing with, as opposed to America should pursue her own national interest.

00:52:45.000 And that national interest is actually deeply entangled with America Remaining the global hegemon.

00:52:51.000 But what does this speak of?

00:52:52.000 If we are rejecting open borders, free trade, Pax Americana, I think everyone agrees.

00:52:56.000 No open borders.

00:52:57.000 Everyone. But free trade impacts Americana.

00:52:59.000 Let's say we reject those things.

00:53:00.000 What does the world then look like?

00:53:02.000 What the world looks like is America retreating from the world.

00:53:04.000 It looks like America basically saying screw it to policing the world's oceans, for example, in the Red Sea.

00:53:10.000 Here you saw that represented by J.D. Vance in that open signal thread that got revealed by Jeffrey Goldberg where he was actively arguing who cares if the Red Sea gets shut down.

00:53:18.000 There are members of the Department of Defense who have been stacked in by allies of the Vice President, who are very much in favor of the idea that it doesn't matter if Taiwan gets taken over by China, or if the Middle East is beleaguered by Iran, or whether Russia takes over not only Ukraine, but other parts of Eastern Europe.

00:53:34.000 That really makes very little difference at all to the United States, that America ought to withdraw from its place as the leading power on planet Earth, and instead we should sort of speedrun the end of American empire.

00:53:42.000 We should try to reshore as much as humanly possible.

00:53:45.000 If prices go up, well, you weren't here for the cheap TVs anyway.

00:53:47.000 And if you crater the global economy, it won't have any dire effects for American citizens.

00:53:53.000 I think that's totally wrong-headed.

00:53:55.000 I actually don't think that's where President Trump is.

00:53:56.000 I don't think President Trump wants to speedrun the end of American power on the globe.

00:54:01.000 President Trump has said over and over and over again that he's a peace-through-strength guy.

00:54:04.000 So if there are people who are attempting to sort of defeat the peace-through-strength idea with the idea of an American withdrawal, which sounds, frankly, just like Barack Obama, totally like Barack Obama.

00:54:15.000 It's a multilateral world.

00:54:16.000 We need people like China just needs to be a more responsible player. 0.99

00:54:20.000 But even if they're not, does it really matter if the United States is involved in that?

00:54:22.000 Iran can be brought into the family of nations so we can withdraw from these particular areas. 1.00

00:54:27.000 Russia, we need a reset button. 0.98

00:54:28.000 I'm struggling to see the difference between some of the foreign policies proposed by the new neo-isolationist sort of right and Barack Obama's foreign policy.

00:54:38.000 They look exactly the same to me.

00:54:40.000 I can't tell the difference between them.

00:54:42.000 But just in terms of actual practical policy, you can see this.

00:54:46.000 Coming to a head over the president's Iran policy.

00:54:48.000 So the president has been oriented since 2015 in a very anti-Iran direction for good reason. 1.00

00:54:53.000 Iran has spread terrorism all over the Middle East. 0.99

00:54:56.000 Iran is threatening global oil supply. 1.00

00:54:58.000 Iran obviously has attempted to assassinate President Trump himself. 0.74

00:55:02.000 So one of the big debates is what should be done with the Iranian nuclear program.

00:55:05.000 Now the reality is that right now basically a single sortie would take out the Iranian nuclear program and Iran does not have the capacity.

00:55:14.000 To generate any sort of serious conflict that would affect the United States in the Middle East.

00:55:19.000 What are they going to do?

00:55:20.000 Hit Hawaii?

00:55:21.000 The reality is that Iran's proxies have been devastated.

00:55:25.000 Iran has never been more vulnerable than it is right now.

00:55:27.000 If Iran gained a nuclear weapon, that immediately turns around.

00:55:31.000 Suddenly, Iran is a threat to pretty much everybody, including the Saudis, including the UAE, including Israel, including Europe, by the way. 0.99

00:55:37.000 That is why the Trump administration has expressed over and over and over that Iran shouldn't get a nuclear weapon.

00:55:42.000 But the approach that they are now apparently taking is a very Obama-esque approach.

00:55:45.000 We played you earlier this week, Steve Whitcoff, the absolutely befuddled negotiator on behalf of the United States, suggesting that Iran should be allowed to keep a certain level of enriched uranium, which is exactly what Barack Obama was arguing.

00:55:59.000 And now apparently, according to Axios, there's an open debate inside the administration in which people are taking sides along the lines that have already suggested.

00:56:06.000 One camp, according to Axios, unofficially led by Vice President Vance, Believes a diplomatic solution is both preferable and possible, and that the United States should be ready to make compromises in order to make it happen.

00:56:15.000 Vance is highly involved in the Iran policy discussions.

00:56:19.000 This camp also includes Steve Whitcoff, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth.

00:56:24.000 Now again, it's unclear where Pete Hegseth actually falls along these lines.

00:56:28.000 Certainly many of the people have been staffed under DOD, underneath Hegseth, are people who are sympathetic to sort of the Vance Whitcoff position.

00:56:34.000 It also gets outside support.

00:56:36.000 From MAGA influencer and Trump whisperer, Tucker Carlson.

00:56:38.000 So first of all, if Tucker Carlson is giving you your foreign policy advice, all right, I mean, that is a choice.

00:56:43.000 That is a choice.

00:56:45.000 By the way, culminating today in a New York Times leak is something that used to happen all the time, where the Obama administration would get some sort of information on a potential Israeli military action, and then it would end up on the front page of the New York Times the next day.

00:56:58.000 Now apparently that's happening in the Trump administration as well.

00:57:01.000 There's a piece titled, Trump waved off Israeli strike after divisions merged.

00:57:05.000 In his administration, Israel had planned to strike Iranian nuclear sites as soon as next month, but was waived off by President Trump in recent weeks in favor of negotiating a deal with Tehran to limit its nuclear program.

00:57:14.000 Trump made his decision after months of internal debate over whether to pursue diplomacy or support Israel in seeking to set back Iran's ability to build a bomb at a time when Iran has been weakened militarily and economically.

00:57:25.000 Almost all the plans would have required U.S. help not just to defend Israel from Iranian retaliation, but to ensure that an Israeli attack was successful.

00:57:32.000 Making the United States a central part of the attack itself.

00:57:34.000 Again, this is according to, I am sure, Department of Defense sources who are working aligned with the sort of advanced philosophy of the administration.

00:57:43.000 This article, by the way, is devastating for intelligence.

00:57:46.000 I mean, it lays out, like, actual details.

00:57:48.000 The article talks about what exactly Israel was going to do.

00:57:52.000 There's the possibility, apparently, of a commando raid, quote, initially at the behest of Mr. Netanyahu.

00:57:57.000 Senior Israeli officials updated their American counterparts on a plan that would have combined an Israeli commando raid on underground nuclear sites with a bombing campaign, an effort the Israelis hoped would involve American aircraft.

00:58:07.000 Israeli military officials said the commando operation would not be ready until October.

00:58:11.000 Netanyahu wanted to accelerate it.

00:58:13.000 Israeli officials began shifting to a proposal for an extended bombing campaign that would have required American assistance, according to officials briefed on the plan.

00:58:20.000 Some American officials were potentially open to it.

00:58:22.000 That would have included General Michael Carrillo, the head of U.S. CENTCOM, and Mike Walls, the national security advisor.

00:58:29.000 And then, of course, I mean, it's pretty clear who's leaking this, honestly.

00:58:33.000 And so the question for the Trump administration, and for President Trump, is whether he actually wants internal divisions being leaked to Barack Reveed at Axios, and whether he wants them being leaked to the New York Times.

00:58:44.000 And so the question becomes, what exactly, again, is the philosophy of this administration if they're looking for an easy off-ramp with Iran that basically allows Iran a clear pathway to a nuclear bomb in the belief, as David Pak says, that the Pax Americana must end?

00:58:57.000 Okay, then we should hear about that.

00:58:59.000 Like, what does the future look like?

00:59:00.000 Because, frankly, I don't think that that is what President Trump historically has supported.

00:59:04.000 That's not what he told me on this show.

00:59:06.000 He has always said that he's a peace-through-strength president.

00:59:08.000 So what exactly is the philosophy here?

00:59:10.000 That is the great debate.

00:59:12.000 It's not just about Iran.

00:59:16.000 It's also about world trade.

00:59:17.000 It's about America's position in the world.

00:59:18.000 It's about whether America wishes to remain a global leader or whether America wishes to recede into a sort of multinational hodgepodge, a sort of lobster pot of grasping for power.

00:59:33.000 That is a very dangerous game.

00:59:35.000 And the fact that it's being pushed by very prominent voices inside the administration.

00:59:40.000 Is a problem.

00:59:40.000 It also, by the way, means less success for the United States.

00:59:43.000 And we should point this out.

00:59:45.000 If there is an economic downturn, I can't say this enough, if there's an economic downturn, if the world situation gets more chaotic, not less, under President Trump, Alexander Ocasio-Cortez will be the next president of the United States.

00:59:57.000 It will be someone from the left.

00:59:58.000 It will not be the extended run that Republicans are hoping for, that I am hoping for.

01:00:03.000 It is not going to be a conservative century.

01:00:06.000 If, in fact, the Trump agenda fails or if the Trump agenda just turns into the Obama agenda on foreign policy and trade, if that is what happens, if somehow President Trump's own campaign promises are thwarted by people inside his administration who do not actually agree with those campaign promises,

01:00:22.000 who have a different view of foreign policy, a different view of global economics, if that is what ends up happening here, the result is not going to be a Republican century or even a Republican decade.

01:00:33.000 The result is going to be a backlash that comes in the form of a populist left progressive who comes in and wipes away everything that conservatives actually like and want.

01:00:41.000 That is the danger.

01:00:42.000 This is a high-stakes game.

01:00:44.000 And so I think it's worthwhile having a conversation over what exactly the world vision, the global policy of the administration is at this point.

01:00:53.000 Because, frankly, there are too many mixed signals.

01:00:57.000 And those mixed signals are leading to confusion not just in markets.

01:01:00.000 But also in terms of foreign policy, and that confusion is likely to lead to violence.

01:01:04.000 Confusion in foreign policy, predictability, in foreign policy as in markets, leads to more quiet, calm, peace, growth.

01:01:14.000 Chaos, as in not like the madman theory of politics where you don't know if he's going to punch you or what, but a sort of chaotic view of foreign policy in which the default position is American withdrawal is not likely to lead to a more peaceful world.

01:01:28.000 It's likely to lead to precisely The opposite.

01:01:31.000 And by the way, I should point out here that when we talk about Department of Defense officials who are oriented against the peace through strength idea, the reality is the Pentagon has now been hit with a series of leaks.

01:01:42.000 And those leaks are coming in large part from people who are very much aligned with the sort of isolationist wing of the Republican Party.

01:01:49.000 Dan Caldwell, Senior Advisor to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

01:01:53.000 Darren Selvnick, Defense Department Deputy Chief of Staff, were escorted out of the Pentagon by security officers and had their building access suspended pending further investigation.

01:02:03.000 You know, it'll be fascinating to see how all of this plays out.

01:02:07.000 And the future of America rests on it.

01:02:09.000 And meanwhile, the hottest story of the day is that Elon Musk has a messy personal life.

01:02:16.000 Now, of course, we know that already.

01:02:18.000 That, of course, is no shock.

01:02:20.000 A long article in the Wall Street Journal.

01:02:23.000 Basically featuring Ashley Sinclair, who I have to say, there are no heroes in this story.

01:02:28.000 There are just no heroes in this story.

01:02:30.000 Everybody is acting horribly and badly and it's ugly and seamy and gross.

01:02:34.000 I have long been an advocate for traditional marriage and children within it.

01:02:38.000 I know this is like a wildly controversial position in today's world.

01:02:41.000 I think it's bad not to do that.

01:02:42.000 I think it's actively bad not to do that.

01:02:44.000 And if you're the girl who took Elon Musk's check in order to get pregnant... 0.82

01:02:49.000 And now you're disappointed with the situation.

01:02:50.000 Don't make you a hero.

01:02:51.000 And if you're Elon Musk and you're impregnating everything in sight, that also does not make you a hero.

01:02:55.000 Those are villainous actions.

01:02:57.000 All of them.

01:02:57.000 They are all bad.

01:02:58.000 And I can say that even though, again, I like many of the people involved on a personal level.

01:03:03.000 The actions themselves are sinful and wrong.

01:03:06.000 We ought to, at the very least, recognize sin for sin.

01:03:11.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, Ashley Sinclair wanted to prove Elon Musk was the father of her newborn baby.

01:03:16.000 But to ask the billionaire to take a paternity test, the right-wing social media influencer had to go through Musk's longtime fixer, Jared Birchall.

01:03:23.000 Sinclair told Birchall, quote, I don't want my son to feel like he's a secret.

01:03:26.000 Birchall offered Sinclair some advice.

01:03:28.000 His boss was a very big-hearted, kind, and generous person, he said, but Musk had a different side.

01:03:31.000 When a mother of his child goes the legal route, that always, always leads to a worse outcome for that woman than what it would have been otherwise. 0.64

01:03:39.000 Birchall's job is running Musk's family office.

01:03:41.000 But behind the scenes, he also manages the financial and privacy deals Musk wants for the women raising the world's richest man's babies.

01:03:47.000 Musk has at least 14 children with four different women, including pop musician Grimes and Siobhan Zillis, an executive at his brain computer company Neuralink.

01:03:55.000 Multiple sources say they believe the true number of Musk's children is much higher than publicly known, which, I mean, you would assume that that's the case, given the fact that he is basically swearing people to silence and giving them a lot of money to keep their mouth closed.

01:04:06.000 Apparently... Elon Musk offered Ashley Sinclair $15 million and $100,000 a month in exchange for her silence about the child, whom they named Romulus.

01:04:15.000 Similar agreements have been negotiated with other mothers of Musk's children, Birchall told Sinclair.

01:04:19.000 By the way, she could have kept silent.

01:04:20.000 She could have and just taken the money. 0.97

01:04:22.000 And, you know, that probably wouldn't be better for the kid, is the truth, because now the kid is going to be at the center of every controversy.

01:04:28.000 Also, there was a clue that it was Elon Musk's kid.

01:04:30.000 The kid's name is Romulus.

01:04:32.000 There's that.

01:04:32.000 The fight with Sinclair over the terms of the deal for their baby has been going on as Musk has assumed one of the most influential roles in the United States government, of course.

01:04:41.000 Musk's baby-making project is relevant to his ambitions for NASA.

01:04:44.000 He said on X, making people multi-planetary is critical to ensuring the long-term survival of humanity and all life as we know it.

01:04:51.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, he is driven to correct the historic moment by helping seed the Earth with more human beings of high intelligence, according to people familiar with the matter.

01:04:59.000 Again, not into it.

01:05:01.000 Not into the eugenic nature of that.

01:05:02.000 Not into the idea that you shouldn't be a father to your children.

01:05:05.000 And again, there are some of these kids who Elon's actually a really good father to, right?

01:05:08.000 I mean, he's actually taking little X around with him pretty much everywhere.

01:05:11.000 He's very connected to that kid.

01:05:13.000 But you should be like that with all of your kids, not just some of your kids.

01:05:16.000 And that also means you should be connected to the mother of your kids.

01:05:19.000 Because how kids behave in their future relationships between man and woman is modeled on how their parents behave with one another.

01:05:27.000 If you don't know who daddy is because mommy's taking a big check to have been impregnated with you, that is not exactly a great way to grow up. 0.50

01:05:36.000 Again, all this stuff is a curiosity to most people, but it is part of a broader collapse in traditional morality that is terrible for the West.

01:05:43.000 There are two questions when it comes to the collapse of the West with regard to birth rates.

01:05:46.000 One is, how do you have more babies?

01:05:48.000 And the other is, how is that connected with marriage?

01:05:51.000 And the West's answer to that, for literally as long as the West has been the West, has been, Those two things are the same.

01:05:57.000 It's the same question.

01:05:59.000 That the way that you have more babies is to get married and then have more babies. 0.53

01:06:03.000 Because babies need a father and women need a husband to support them and protect them. 1.00

01:06:08.000 And the fact that that is now sort of seen as passe is quite bad.

01:06:13.000 Because guess what?

01:06:15.000 Elon Musk can make that happen for himself.

01:06:16.000 He's the world's richest man.

01:06:18.000 But number one, it's not good for the kids.

01:06:20.000 Number two, it's not good for their moms. 1.00

01:06:21.000 And number three, it's not good for the people who are going to model themselves on this sort of behavior.

01:06:25.000 This sort of bizarrely pagan belief system that predates traditional religion.

01:06:31.000 It's also mirrored by people like Andrew Tate, which has impregnated as many women as possible.

01:06:35.000 It does not make the world a better place.

01:06:37.000 It makes the world a much worse place.

01:06:40.000 Young men who have no father figure in their life because daddy was off sleeping around with a bunch of women, impregnating them and leaving, those kids don't end up particularly well in the long run or even the mid-run or even the short run.

01:06:51.000 That is not the way to build a civilization.

01:06:54.000 The show continues in a moment.

01:06:56.000 We'll get into Democrats who are somehow finding ways to blow it, despite the fact that there is emerging a target-rich environment for them.

01:07:03.000 Plus, we'll get to the mailbag.

01:07:04.000 Remember, you have to be a member in order to watch.

01:07:05.000 If you're not a member, become a member.

01:07:06.000 Use code Shapiro at checkout for two months free on all annual plans.

The Ben Shapiro Show - April 17, 2025

When Murder Is Apparently Totally Fine

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