Sage Steele is more than just a sports journalist. She s a trailblazer whose life story embodies the essence of determination, courage, and integrity. Sage s journey is rooted in the disciplined environment of a military family, an upbringing that instilled in her a profound sense of duty, resilience, and adaptability. As one of the few women in the early days to step into the male-dominated arena of sports locker rooms, Sage broke through barriers with grace and professionalism. Her experiences in these environments, often challenging and sometimes unwelcoming, have given her unique insight into the dynamics of sports culture. In our discussion, we discuss Sage s ability to stand firm in her beliefs even when faced with criticism, the challenges of being a working mom in a demanding industry, freedom of speech, and the balance between personal beliefs and professional duties. Join us as we delve into the life of Sage Steel, understand the person behind the persona and convictions that drive her, and learn how she found her voice in a world where there is no room for women in sports journalism. In honor of Women s History Month, here s a little something for you to get to know who she really is: Sage Steele! Thank you so much for joining us! -Ben and Ben and - Thank you for your support and support, and for being a part of this podcast, and I can t wait to do it again next year! . Learn more about your ad choices and how to become a supporter of the podcast, by going to gimlet.co/tweet me in the podcast. Thank you, Ben and I hope you like what you're listening to this podcast. - Ben and Ben is listening to the podcast! and I'm looking forward to hearing back from you, too, and sharing it on social media Thanks, Ben & Ben and you're supporting us, too. Ben & I really appreciate it, and it's a good day, right, thank you, thank you. . . - Your support is so much, right? - your support is much more than enough, right?? - Ben, Ben and Thank you , right, bye, Ben, Thank you? ? & , x <3 - PSA: : -- @ ~ ( ) #
00:00:00.000How was it working as a woman in this world?
00:00:02.000Because obviously there's a lot of controversy, especially at this time in the 80s, early 90s, about women being in sort of the sporting world.
00:00:10.000I remember there are a lot of conference about women's locker room and this sort of stuff.
00:00:17.000What it did for me was it made me better.
00:00:21.000Because when you're in the, you know, you call it the media scrum, and it's an NFL Media Wednesday, and you've got, you know, 20 reporters, you know, gathering around Shannon Sharp or Ray Lewis or whoever it was.
00:00:34.000And, you know, Warren Sapp, difficult people like Warren Sapp, and you have to like, you know, you're in there, you're trying to get your mic in and all these big, fat, smelly male reporters.
00:00:43.000And I was like, OK, that's helpful, number one.
00:00:45.000But number two, because it was all male voices, I knew that when I spoke, it would sound different and it would maybe stop some people.
00:00:53.000And so what came out of my mouth better be damn good.
00:00:56.000Sage Steele is more than just a sports journalist.
00:00:59.000She's a trailblazer whose life story embodies the essence of determination, courage, and integrity.
00:01:04.000Sage's journey is rooted in the disciplined environment of a military family, an upbringing that instilled in her a profound sense of duty, resilience, and adaptability.
00:01:11.000As one of the few women in the early days to step into the male-dominated arena of sports locker rooms, Sage broke through barriers with grace and professionalism.
00:01:19.000Her experiences in these environments, often challenging and sometimes unwelcoming, have given her unique insight into the dynamics of sports culture.
00:01:25.000Beginning her illustrious career at WSBT-TV in South Bend, Indiana, Sage quickly distinguished herself in the realm of sports reporting.
00:01:32.000Her path led her through prestigious roles at WISH-TV in Indianapolis, WFTS in Tampa, and Comcast Sportsnet Mid-Atlantic before she made her mark at ESPN beginning in 2007.
00:01:43.000Sage's tenure at ESPN was nothing short of remarkable, from anchoring SportsCenter to hosting NBA Countdown and the Miss America pageant, showcasing her versatility and breadth of talent.
00:01:52.000Beyond her on-screen achievements, Sage has navigated career hardship with steadfastness and grace after comments on a third-party podcast protesting the COVID-19 vaccine mandate led to a suspension from ESPN in 2021.
00:02:04.000Refusing to stay on the bench, Sage launched a lawsuit against ESPN in 2022, with both parties reaching a settlement in August 2023.
00:02:11.000In our discussion, we discuss Sage's ability to stand firm in her beliefs even when faced with criticism, the challenges of being a working mom in a demanding industry, freedom of speech, the responsibilities of public figures, and the balance between personal beliefs and professional duties.
00:02:23.000Join us as we delve into the life of Sage Steel, understanding the person behind the persona and the
00:02:45.000Okay, so I believe last time we talked was before you left ESPN, actually.
00:02:49.000The first time we talked was sort of behind the scenes when ESPN was coming after you for your stance on COVID and the vaccine debate.
00:02:57.000But I want to go like all the way back.
00:02:59.000So let's start from the very beginning, from your childhood, because obviously you're a unique brand, you have a unique political point of view and a unique story.
00:03:25.000So that 88 election, I remember being like a government or civics class in high school and talking about the election and the candidates and coming home and saying, mom and dad, what do you think?
00:04:36.000Panama, back to West Point where my dad went to school, and he went back to coach, Indianapolis, California, Greece, Belgium, Colorado, Indiana, then college, and then 100 different more places and TV.
00:04:48.000So I don't have a home, although it will soon be Florida, because I'm smart, like you.
00:05:18.000Coaches, like people who coached him, like Bill Parcells at Army or Bob Knight was there.
00:05:22.000They're the ones that told me about my dad's greatness there.
00:05:25.000But anyway, my love came from Having my dad as my hero and wanting to spend time with him.
00:05:31.000And so we would, when we lived in Belgium in particular, Greece and Belgium, there were no like English speaking TV stations.
00:05:37.000So we had family members who would send VHS tapes of games across the ocean for us to watch and for me to break down.
00:05:45.000I was 11 when I told him that I wanted to be a sportscaster.
00:05:48.000And I was like, weirdly shy, super shy.
00:05:51.000And he's like, uh, mom and dad are like, okay, that means you're probably going to have to Get over that and talk if you want to be on TV.
00:05:58.000And now they're like, would you stop talking?
00:06:00.000But it began just wanting to spend time around my father.
00:06:05.000And I honestly felt from a young age, Ben, honestly, I could feel that sports brought people together, whether you're just going to my high school track meet, you know, and my parents and grandparents, if they were visiting, would come.
00:06:19.000Or if you're going to Giants Stadium and there's 80,000 people on a Sunday where nothing matters but the Giants winning, like your politics, your race, your gender, your socioeconomic status, nothing else matters for those three hours.
00:06:32.000And I felt that, and I'm like, I want to be a part of this.
00:07:10.000What they taught me—by the way, the adversity, moving all over the world with an Army salary, like nothing.
00:07:18.000They bought their first house in 1984 in the States in Colorado Springs.
00:07:21.000The interest rates were 16.5% on an Army salary with three kids.
00:07:26.000Like, there was no money, but we never knew that or felt that.
00:07:30.000There's a story that has been pinned to my ex profile for years, and it will always remain there because it tells the story of my family.
00:07:37.000And I would love it if people would take a look because for all those people who like to stereotype and put you in little boxes, I mean, they're my why.
00:07:45.000My parents got married in 1971, off the civil rights era.
00:07:49.000My dad's black, my mom's white, Irish-Italian.
00:07:51.000Her parents disowned her because she was marrying a black man.
00:07:55.000And what my parents chose to do, how they chose to handle it, and what my dad did to handle that—being protective of his wife and upset at his new in-laws—was a beautiful thing in that lesson that I took, which stems from the cadet prayer.
00:08:11.000It was so annoying, but, help us to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong, and to never be content with a half-truth when the whole can be one.
00:08:52.000And I'd say that I went to most of my classes when I was at Indiana University, but if I didn't, I was definitely up.
00:08:59.000You know, remember when SportsCenter used to run, like, all morning, all afternoon until, like, primetime again, back in the day when everything wasn't, you know, digital?
00:09:08.000I just knew that that was always my dream because that was the pinnacle, the worldwide leader in sports.
00:09:13.000And this is probably 1990-91 when I was going to college.
00:09:18.000But I knew it was going to take a long time to get there.
00:09:20.000And I had like four internships during and after college.
00:09:25.000This is back in the day when it's, you know, VHS or beta tapes and you're buying a stack of 12 from Walmart and dubbing them down and sending them snail mail and begging people.
00:09:35.000To give you a shot and praying that your tape was one that would stand out in the stack of 60 on their desk and you'd have to make a phone call, you know, to say, Hey, my name is Sage.
00:10:38.000But it was, it was South Bend, Indianapolis, and then to Tampa.
00:10:42.000And, you know, covered all the NFL teams in both cities and NBA teams there and in Orlando and NHL and baseball.
00:10:50.000And then to the DC Baltimore area where I was there for six years at Comcast Sportsnet, a regional network.
00:10:56.000And actually Ben got the offer for ESPN after three years and turned it down, which was a major controversy in my family, just because they were like, what are you doing?
00:11:09.000And at the end of the day, it's kind of a long story, but it just went back to family first.
00:11:14.000I had a 20-month-old at home, and I was pregnant with number two, about to pop when I got the offer.
00:11:19.000I knew I wanted more kids, and I knew that ESPN was a difficult place.
00:11:24.000This is back in the mid-2005-ish, 2004-2005, a different place when you're a young mother trying to expand your family.
00:11:43.000Like, it's a lot of hard work and grinding.
00:11:44.000And I knew that if I put my family second at that time, that I would always regret it.
00:11:50.000So it's probably one of my more proud moments for looking at the big picture, even though this little girl's dream was right there.
00:11:57.000ESPN finally thought I was good enough.
00:11:59.000And I turned it down and took a chance.
00:12:01.000And three years later, they called back.
00:12:03.000So how was it working as a woman in this world?
00:12:07.000Because obviously there's a lot of controversy, especially at this time in the 80s, early 90s, about women being in sort of the sporting world.
00:12:15.000I remember there were a lot of conference about women's locker room and this sort of stuff.
00:12:22.000I think I was just—it was a different era when I began, and we just knew what we were getting into.
00:12:28.000We didn't know any different, that we'd be the only woman in a locker room.
00:12:32.000And I always was, whether it was NBA or NFL.
00:12:34.000I think when I got to Tampa, there was actually one other woman, Chris Field.
00:12:37.000She was at the Fox affiliate in Tampa, and I was at the ABC.
00:12:40.000And when I saw her, I was like, Hi, can we be best friends, you know?
00:12:45.000Because no one else really knew what it was like back then.
00:12:48.000Certainly there were some stories on the national level, but it just was, you know, what it did for me was it made me better.
00:12:56.000Because when you're in the, you know, you call it the media scrum, and it's an NFL Media Wednesday, and you've got, you know, 20 reporters, you know, gathering around Shannon Sharp or Ray Lewis or whoever it was.
00:13:09.000And, you know, Warren Sapp—difficult people like Warren Sapp—and you have to, like, you know, you're in there, you're trying to get your mic in, and all these big, fat, smelly male reporters.
00:13:18.000And I was like, okay, that's helpful, number one.
00:13:20.000But number two, because it was all male voices, I knew that when I spoke it would sound different and it would maybe stop some people and so what came out of my mouth better be damn good.
00:13:31.000So I was like extra prepared because I knew that I was different and I would be judged differently.
00:13:36.000Were there uncomfortable moments and awkward moments and, you know, athletes doing stupid things on purpose in the locker room?
00:14:02.000Things have evolved and it's so much better now.
00:14:04.000But I also think that sometimes people look for issues and there aren't always issues, you know?
00:14:09.000So, which sports, when you were first starting out, obviously football because of your dad was a big one, which were the sports that you liked and knew and which were the ones that you didn't know and how did you get to become an expert in the sports that you didn't know?
00:14:22.000Well, I don't know that I have ever been an expert in any of them, but I always said you have to know a little about a lot of things, especially when you're at ESPN and you're covering everything on SportsCenter.
00:14:31.000Football, NFL football, was always my favorite.
00:14:34.000That's what we watched when we were overseas, like I described earlier, either on tape delay by like a week or VHS tapes from America that were shipped over.
00:14:44.000And because my dad played college football, actually was drafted by the Detroit Lions, even though Back then, in 1970, there's no way anybody from a service academy could continue on to play at the professional level.
00:15:29.000My dad went to college with Coach K at West Point.
00:15:32.000They were classmates, and so I grew up a Duke fan, and now I'm friends with, you know, Grant Hill and some of those guys, and we still talk trash to each other.
00:15:37.000I'm like, ew, Duke, when back in the day I was in love with all of them.
00:15:41.000So it really started with football and basketball.
00:15:44.000As far as like other sports I did not know, NHL and Major League Baseball.
00:15:49.000It's just not, especially hockey, like that wasn't a thing, especially overseas.
00:15:54.000And then I think, you know, it was just more of a niche sport in the 80s for sure.
00:15:59.000It's one thing to have watched the 1980 gold medal winning team, and that was awesome and historical, but it's another thing to cover NHL.
00:17:30.000So that was a little bit tougher, but I found some players and some PR people down when I was covering the Tampa Bay Devil Rays at the time who really helped me out.
00:17:38.000And that's what I share with young women and men who are getting in the industry.
00:17:42.000Don't try to sound smart, because they're going to see right through you.
00:18:22.000Tommy John's stylish and soft second skin brand underwear offers dozens of comfort innovations, including a support contour pouch, a breathable, lightweight moisture-wicking fabric, and four times the stretch of competing brands.
00:18:33.000Plus, Tommy John's best pair you'll ever wear, it's free guarantee, protects your most valuable assets.
00:18:54.000So you mentioned the various sports and how it was to cover the players.
00:18:57.000So who are the best players to cover in various sports and who are the worst people to cover, whether they're executives, managers, or players?
00:19:05.000I mean, there's some coaches that, you know, when the mic's on and they have to do whatever and, you know, the media, some of the questions are just god-awful.
00:19:34.000Uh, certain players were incredible and saw my efforts, you know, even if it wasn't perfect, and were really, really awesome.
00:19:42.000And that would mean—that would really pay off at the end.
00:19:45.000Like, you—I always hosted, um, in Baltimore, I hosted Raven's Postgame Live, and it was a two-hour live show, and no one was there getting me guests.
00:19:53.000I had one producer helping me sometimes, and for the most part, I'd get a guest, I'd beg him, I'd go in the locker room, I'd beg him, and he'd be like, uh, we just lost, really, Sage?
00:20:01.000And I'm like, listen, You know, I was like, listen, I did this and I reported this last time, and he's like, okay, you're right.
00:20:27.000Overall, I think, again, baseball was the toughest as far as getting the human element out of the athletes and the managers.
00:20:36.000And they also have 162 games a year to play.
00:20:38.000They're exhausted and they're over us being in their face every day.
00:20:41.000I think it can be equally tough, depending on the player or coach, or equally awesome.
00:20:46.000So, okay, I'm going to ask you, what was like the worst war story from covering all these various sports?
00:20:52.000I don't know if this is a horror story, but something that, gosh, the timing, I'm lucky there wasn't anything called going viral back then.
00:21:00.000But Brian Billick was the Ravens' head coach, and this was my fifth and ended up being my final season covering the team.
00:21:07.000And they had just lost, or no, no, no, they barely beat the 0-11 Houston Texans, like, on a last-second field goal.
00:21:17.000Ravens was supposed to go to the playoffs, and they almost lost to a winless team.
00:21:20.000And again, doing post-game live, and I always got the head coach, which was always Brian Billick when I was there.
00:21:26.000And so he came in and sat down live, and I could tell he was a little tight.
00:21:30.000And the room's this big, so like we're shoulder-to-shoulder.
00:21:32.000And, you know, I was always kind of like really casual.
00:21:36.000And I was like, gosh, coach, seemed like nobody really wanted to win that game, but you pulled it out, talk about the field, whatever.
00:21:42.000And he looked at me, and he Listen to everything that any of the media said, like all week long he would get notes and clips, his wife would even tell him things.
00:21:52.000Earlier that week I had been very critical of the quarterback because he'd been playing bad football for a couple of years and he was their first round draft pick.
00:22:12.000And I think he's a great kid and has a ton of potential.
00:22:15.000But when the lights come on, If I can't do my job, I'm not going to have a job in TV.
00:22:19.000It's the same thing for a quarterback.
00:22:21.000And by the way, I love Kyle Bowler now.
00:22:24.000Nothing to do with him as a human, but the way he was playing, and he would admit that now too.
00:22:28.000Well, Brian heard that on the radio and waited till we were live on TV.
00:22:32.000And he's like, yeah, we pulled out that win.
00:22:34.000It takes character, something that you don't know anything about.
00:22:37.000And I was very pregnant, and I was like, okay.
00:22:42.000And I looked at the camera, and we're live, and I said, for those of you who are wondering about what Coach is speaking of, and I recapped the little thing back and forth, and he's like, you don't know what it takes.
00:22:51.000You're not there at one in the morning, da-da-da-da, when I'm doing it.
00:22:55.000And I go, you don't know what this takes.
00:22:56.000And I, listen, Ben, I was like nine months pregnant.
00:23:01.000hormones and I put my producers like rap rap and I was like, oh and I took my earpiece out and we were
00:23:08.000It was an all-out brawl not like verbal brawl And I just thought, and he goes, and he's like, well, you know, I work so hard.
00:23:59.000He later apologized in his own way for coming at me, and I'd seen him three times during that week prior to the game after I said what I said, and he could have said it in person, but he waited till we were live, and I was like, oh no, I'm done.
00:24:12.000So that was probably not the most professional thing, but you know what?
00:24:17.000To this day, that was in 2005, to this day when I go to Baltimore, I have people stop me in airports, at restaurants, firefighters, they're like, That was the best thing ever!
00:25:10.000Anyway, there's certain things I'm considering sharing in there because there are moments that I wish I had spoken up about, but at the time I was scared and I was afraid of being blackballed.
00:25:22.000And then, you know, I could have brought it up much later, but I don't really go for that whole, you know, me too, 20 years later vibe.
00:25:30.000There were moments, but 98% of the time, it was awesome.
00:25:34.000When I got there, my kids were 11 months old, 2, and 4.
00:25:38.000And so I'm just trying to stay alive at home and be a good mom and be present.
00:25:44.000They always were and always will be my number one priority.
00:25:48.000I've made every professional decision with them in mind, based on them.
00:25:56.000And then I was trying to survive on air, too, because it was so hard, and there's nothing, especially back then, that really could prepare you for going there from, you know, regional was better than local, right?
00:26:09.000Because there were longer shows, and I had a lot more, a much bigger job and workload at regional versus local, because the shows were 30 or 60 minutes long, versus local sports, you get like three minutes, you know?
00:26:22.000But I still wasn't prepared, and I Struggled for years and years to find my way, and certainly with confidence.
00:26:29.000I think I sucked for a long time and finally got mad at myself for allowing the opinions of others to get in my head and affect my performance.
00:26:37.000It took me getting mad at myself to really find myself on air.
00:26:41.000I mean, you're really a self-starter and you're very self-critical.
00:26:43.000And I think that that's obviously one aspect of your success is that when you see that you've done something that you wish you had done better, instead of sort of blaming external forces, it seems like you internalize and you go back to the drawing board and say, okay, what could I have changed?
00:26:57.000In my own career, that's the piece of advice that I give very often to young people who say, I want to do what you do.
00:27:03.000And my answer is, well, you have to go through the paces a lot.
00:27:05.000And if you fail, you have to assume that it's you and you have to fix what you're doing.
00:27:08.000I assume that it's the same sort of thing for you.
00:27:11.000Although I took that too far, and I don't know if you can relate to that as well, where, you know, my last job at ESPN was SportsCenter, noon Eastern, 12 to 2, and two hours of live TV every day is a lot, and there's so many moving parts.
00:27:25.000The studio is like 20,000 square feet, and we're walking and talking and highlights and interviews, and it is a grind, and it takes every ounce of energy in you, and I loved that.
00:27:36.000But I could have, you know, A great show and mispronounce one name.
00:27:41.000And so that, you know, that two seconds out of two hours is what I would go home thinking about.
00:27:45.000And I think I beat myself up so much for so long.
00:27:48.000I don't know that I changed that about myself because it did make me better and stronger.
00:27:53.000And I've always just, I was raised with Humility.
00:28:07.000I think you can be humble and kind and confident.
00:28:10.000And it just took me a long time to put all those together because I was humble to the point where I think it did hurt me and so self-deprecating.
00:28:18.000And then I was just such a pleaser and I wanted all my producers and teammates to like me.
00:28:25.000And but then you get taken advantage of too.
00:28:29.000So what's that line between being that person who just let people kind of push you around and being a stereotypical diva of which there are a few over at the Worldwide Leader in Sports and you know what?
00:28:45.000It's not people rip on just ESPN, it is everywhere.
00:28:48.000But when you witness that and people who are, you know, the smiles on TV but once that light goes off, Watch how they treat the kid running the teleprompter.
00:29:14.000And I think that I go back to my parents with that, but I probably was too hard on myself for a long time and still am working on it.
00:29:23.000So, and like every other guy my age, I grew up obviously watching ESPN all the time, like, you know, day to night.
00:29:29.000I'd get up early in the morning before school so I could watch SportsCenter because there wasn't really this sort of internet prevalence of sports in the same way, and so if you wanted to see the highlights, that's what you did.
00:31:22.000Huge turn when Trump was running and then when he won.
00:31:25.000I remember, Ben, being on Twitter and watching the posts from my bosses, executives, executives, making huge decisions for ESPN, tweeting about Donald Trump winning.
00:31:39.000And I remember being blown away, like, is this okay that our bosses are doing it?
00:31:47.000And then, yeah, it was, you know, gloves off.
00:31:50.000Everybody said whatever they wanted, especially, you know, not just Trump winning, but Hillary losing, right?
00:31:55.000I think the combination of those two personalities and what happened was nuts.
00:32:00.000You know, our president at the time, John Skipper, I mean, he's talked about this, and he really agreed with everything that Trump, anti-Trump, right, and everything against him.
00:32:11.000And so he was kind of fine with people spouting off, and like when Jemele Hill said what she said, I mean, he even told me, he's like, well, she's right.
00:32:18.000And I'm like, wait, But we're not, we're supposed to have a no politics policy.
00:32:34.000And there were two incidents with Jamal and Donald Trump.
00:32:36.000Um, people think that she got suspended for, um, for the Trump comments and she did not.
00:32:41.000there was a conversation, she ended up getting suspended for her comments about what was
00:32:46.000happening with the NFL and advertising and etc. And of course, with the ESPN's relationship
00:32:51.000with the NFL, there's, you know, dollars affected there.
00:32:54.000That's the ultimate reason why she was suspended, not because of the Trump comments, which is
00:32:58.000quite interesting when you look later at what happened. So then when Jimmy Pataro came in as the
00:33:03.000new president, he was like, listen, this is enough with the politics. He got it, you
00:33:08.000know, this is divisive and this is not helping our bottom line. And I always said to
00:33:12.000him and others, and even John Skipper, like, remember when Michael Jordan said in the 80s,
00:33:17.000Republicans buy sneakers I mean, it's just so basic.
00:33:20.000Like, any business, I don't care if you're a television network or if you're like a local hardware store, I think we want money from everybody, not just people that we align with.
00:34:54.000Well, I'm not gonna get my veggies from eating pizza made with cauliflower.
00:34:58.000I make up for my vegetable deficiencies by taking balance of nature fruits and veggies.
00:35:02.000Balance of nature fruits and veggies, it's the most convenient way to ensure you get your daily intake of both fruits and veggies.
00:35:06.000Balance of nature uses an advanced cold vacuum process that encapsulates fruits and veggies into whole food supplements without sacrificing those natural antioxidants.
00:35:14.000The capsules are completely void of additives, fillers, extracts, synthetics, pesticides, or added sugar.
00:35:18.000The only thing in Balance of Nature's fruit and veggie capsules are, you know, like the fruits and the veggies.
00:35:23.000You need nutrients to function at your best each and every day.
00:35:26.000Balance of Nature will help you do just that.
00:35:28.000It's kosher, which means I can take it in my protein smoothies, which is One way to keep the gun show going strong.
00:35:34.000Go to balanceofnature.com, use promo code SHAPIRO.
00:35:36.000Get 35% off your very first set of fruits and veggies, plus an additional $10 off every additional set you buy.
00:35:48.000When I go back and I think about when this sort of stuff broke into the sporting world, it seems to me that it was actually even earlier than Trump.
00:35:56.000Because I remember when Caitlyn Jenner came out as Caitlyn Jenner as opposed to Bruce Jenner, which was a couple of years before that.
00:36:01.000That was covered wall to wall on ESPN.
00:36:35.000And I remember canceling my subscription over that.
00:36:37.000And same sort of general period of time, you saw the uptick in a lot of the racialized coverage of sports, which was Strange, because obviously race and sports have a really deep and disturbing and fascinating history, going all the way back to the color line in major league sports and all of that.
00:36:56.000By the time you hit the mid-2000s, the idea that there is a massive amount of racism that is predominant across the sporting leagues That's a very hard proposition to support.
00:37:06.000By the time you hit 2013, 2014, where you have virtually every major sporting league with explicit rules, I mean, the NFL has the Rooney Rule by this point, explicit rules that are attempting to drive more racial diversity in sports, or where a huge percentage of the players of a particular sport are people of color, black or hispanic, depending on what
00:38:12.000But we also spoke in whispers or text messages.
00:38:15.000We knew better than to say that out loud.
00:38:18.000You know, I mean, it was even little things like during the NCAA tournament, Andy Katz, who's an incredible reporter, he ended up being laid off by ESPN.
00:40:08.000And especially with Trump and some of Trump's comments that certainly weren't helpful at times.
00:40:12.000But then, it leads up to now where I believe there's just too much money to leave on the table if you don't keep this racist thing going where everybody wants to say he's racist, she's racist, and even if you just want to have a conversation.
00:40:26.000So I don't feel like the athletes are like that as much.
00:40:28.000I think it's the quote-unquote adults in the room who have created it.
00:40:53.000But now if you don't say the thing that the media want to hear from you, then they will rip you up.
00:40:57.000And that also happens to be true in other areas of politics.
00:41:00.000If you don't come out and talk about the wonders of Pride Night and they stick a microphone in your face, you say, listen, that's not for me.
00:41:05.000Suddenly you're at risk of maybe being suspended by your team.
00:41:08.000And so there's this perverse incentive structure where people who were apolitical and broadly popular have now become pretty overtly political,
00:41:17.000and I think in many ways a lot more polarizing and unpopular.
00:41:19.000The name that comes to mind here for me, obviously, is LeBron James.
00:41:21.000When LeBron started, he was obviously highly, I mean, the most highly-tatted prospect
00:43:14.000And it's basically this LGBTQ plus group, but that they would wear Catholic gear and like, you know, I'm Catholic and it's like definitely felt like they were mocking Catholics.
00:44:44.000So, obviously, you violate a lot of intersectional sanctities.
00:44:49.000You're a black woman, which means that you have two of the intersectional checkmarks, but you don't necessarily mirror everything that the intersectionality crowd would want you to say.
00:44:57.000How much pressure have you gotten, you know, both inside ESPN and then also just from the outside world, to sort of repeat slogans that people think you should be saying based on your identity?
00:45:08.000Yeah, I mean, pressure meaning being cancelled for not being black enough?
00:45:16.000But, you know, I think one of the biggest things that has made me so divisive and disliked in at least parts, not all for sure, but parts of the black community is my conversation about being biracial.
00:45:30.000So if I'm asked and if I am filling out a census, as Barbara Walters once pointed out to me, like I'm going to check black and white.
00:45:37.000You know, my dad's black, my mom is white, and I'm so proud of both.
00:45:42.000And for some reason that's controversial.
00:45:45.000And I just was always confused by that.
00:45:49.000Isn't my family the actual, like, perfect definition of diversity and tolerance and acceptance and inclusion?
00:45:57.000And again, what my parents fought through at the beginning for my dad not being accepted by my mom's family, and they fought through it, and then everybody eventually, years later, came together, and it was a beautiful melting pot, the Steele-O'Neill family.
00:46:09.000Like, why is it bad that I love my mom as much as my dad and want to celebrate her as well?
00:46:15.000And when I was crushed for that a few times, I got ticked off.
00:46:42.000You know, it wasn't trying to be funny.
00:46:43.000I think I said this once when I, the last time I was on The View, where it got controversial 10 years ago, but I've said it many times and I always will.
00:46:50.000Pretty sure my white mom was there the day I was born.
00:46:54.000And I believe that she is as important in me being who I am as my black father.
00:47:13.000I lead with who you are as a human being, how you treat me, how you treat my family, how I see you treating others who maybe don't have as big of a job as you, right?
00:47:42.000And when you put me in a box because I'm a woman of color, those two things, and in the media, I guess, like then that is you actually being racist and sexist and closed minded.
00:48:14.000You're like, listen, it's not a matter of if you get canceled, Sage, it's when.
00:48:19.000And you need to be ready because it's coming your way.
00:48:21.000And so I've thought about that so many times because then it kind of kept building and building the more I got tired of being beaten up and put, you know, like told what to say and what to do.
00:48:30.000And I kept thinking, Ben, it's coming.
00:48:44.000The pressure was ratcheting up on you, obviously.
00:48:47.000And the thing that I've said to you, I've said this to many people, Gina Carano, a lot of prominent people, is just when that happens, you should be prepared for whatever your next step is.
00:48:57.000Because I think that the worst thing that can happen is that if you get clocked and you don't
00:49:00.000see it coming, and you have no actual lifeboats ready, and you have no
00:49:04.000plan for what comes the day after that happens, it makes you feel trapped. It can get you really
00:49:07.000depressed, really, really down, understandably, because you're going to go from a position
00:49:11.000of wide acclaim to a position where suddenly your friends aren't calling you and people are
00:49:17.000And so unless you're prepared for that sort of incoming, it makes it really difficult.
00:49:21.000So sort of getting in that mental head space and also making some actual business plans for, you know, what happens the day after if things go sideways is really, really important.
00:49:29.000So obviously that is what ended up happening with you at ESPN.
00:49:32.000So why don't you kind of go through the kind of major incidents in the timeline?
00:49:40.000The first one I think that started the ball rolling was in 2020.
00:49:44.000And that was, you know, the time I referred to earlier about COVID and George Floyd.
00:49:50.000And I had been informed by a few people that there was a special that they were getting ready to produce and have many of the on-air, the black on-air talent host about race and sport.
00:50:06.000And I found out, I mean, it was in the works, and I found out that I was not included, and it was intentional.
00:50:11.000And I was like, what are you talking about?
00:50:13.000I was, you know, at the time, and even when I left, I was the longest-tenured female doing SportsCenter at the network.
00:50:21.000Linda Cohen has been doing it longer, but she doesn't do it, you know, full-time as much anymore, and she's a legend, by the way.
00:50:27.000And she's out in Los Angeles doing a lot of hockey, so in Bristol, like, that was me, the longest-tenured woman there.
00:50:32.000And oh, by the way, a woman of color, To not include me in something like that was shocking, and I ended up finding out.
00:50:40.000The reason was because there are two Black hosts there who were my peers on SportsCenter who went to the management and said that they wouldn't do the special if I was on it because I wasn't Black enough.
00:50:54.000I wasn't accepted by the real black community.
00:50:59.000That, I'll admit, I mean, that was hard.
00:51:02.000That was hard to hear because I'm like, what exactly does that mean?
00:51:08.000And the reason I found out is because, you know, they were talking about it openly to people and kind of bragging, at least one of them was.
00:51:13.000So, you know, and then I, so I talked to management.
00:51:16.000I talked to the president of the company.
00:51:42.000And I think the most telling thing, and it was just about like, really, if we're going to talk about diversity, you know what, tell me what not black enough means.
00:51:48.000And we can't, we can't silence people because they don't fit that narrative of whatever it is politically.
00:51:54.000And so I think the most telling part was, was that they had to give a statement as well.
00:52:36.000So that, I believe, was kind of the beginning.
00:52:38.000And then I talked about race and my views that I shared about being biracial on a podcast with Jay Cutler in 2021.
00:52:46.000And I then spoke about the vaccine mandate.
00:52:50.000The difference between the vaccine and the vaccine mandate.
00:52:52.000You and I even had conversations about the vaccine a couple of years ago when it was all going on.
00:52:57.000And obviously I think we've all learned a lot of new information and many lessons from that time as well.
00:53:02.000All I said that day on the podcast is that I think it's sick and scary for any company to force their employees to do something to their body that they don't want to do.
00:53:10.000It wasn't about the shot, it was about being forced.
00:53:13.000And then I Of course, I said Disney, and I think it's wrong, but I complied because I needed my job.
00:53:20.000But most importantly, I love my job, and I'm 100% financially responsible for all three of my children.
00:53:26.000So I had no choice, and that was a turning point for me in my life, actually, to be forced to do something to my body that I didn't agree with.
00:53:50.000So it's one thing to have the opinion, it's another thing to say it on a podcast, on a day off, on a different platform that was not anything related to ESPN.
00:53:58.000And that's when I got punished and suspended, et cetera, et cetera.
00:54:02.000assignments taken away for months and months and months and ended up deciding to file a
00:54:06.000lawsuit because of that. And it was a First Amendment law that was broken in the state
00:54:11.000of Connecticut, related to employment in Connecticut, not First Amendment U.S. Constitution, which
00:54:16.000everybody's like, she's an idiot. Read the lawsuit. It's about a law, First Amendment
00:54:20.000employment related in the state of Connecticut, based on the hypocrisy of my employers punishing
00:54:26.000me in the way that they did very, very publicly. The suspension, public apology, their statements
00:54:32.000surrounding that and then taking assignments away versus my peers on air, on ESPN airwaves.
00:54:38.000To your point earlier, speaking about their political views, we have had a host talking
00:54:43.000about Roe versus Wade the day it was overturned on an NBA show on draft day. That doesn't
00:54:48.000really relate to basketball in my opinion, nor does the alleged don't say gay bill that
00:54:53.000they held a moment of silence on women's basketball coverage.
00:54:57.000So we, not only were we, they, bosses were allowing it to be spoken of, they were encouraging it and allowing political views with my peers on our airwaves.
00:55:07.000But then when I'm punished off our airwaves for my own experiences as a biracial woman and having an opinion about a mandate, that's where, no, and that's why we stood up.
00:55:17.000And where does that lawsuit currently stand?
00:55:19.000Did that end up settling or is that still ongoing?
00:55:21.000It settled in August of 2023, and that's when my time, my 16 and a half years at ESPN ended on August 14th.
00:55:37.000Getting life insurance will give you peace of mind knowing that if something were to happen to you, God forbid, your family could cover expenses while getting back on their feet.
00:55:44.000PolicyGenius has licensed award-winning agents and technology that makes it easy to compare life insurance quotes from America's top insurers in just a few clicks to find that lowest price.
00:55:52.000Their team of licensed experts is on hand to help you through the process.
00:55:55.000Even if you already have a life insurance policy through work, it might not actually offer enough protection for your family's needs and might not follow you if you leave your job.
00:56:01.000With PolicyGenius, however, you can find life insurance policies starting at just $292 per year for a million dollars in coverage.
00:56:08.000Some options offer same-day approval and avoid those unnecessary medical exams.
00:56:12.000PolicyGenius works for you, not the insurance companies, which means they don't have the incentive to recommend one insurer over another.
00:56:32.000Well, now you're doing brand new things.
00:56:34.000The time finally came and you've launched a brand new podcast with Bill Maher's Podcast Network.
00:56:39.000Bill, of course, is doing a wonderful job.
00:56:42.000I'm friends with Bill and he's doing a really good thing by extending the kind of Overton window to cover a lot of views that a lot of people traditionally haven't had.
00:57:41.000Like, what he did by hiring me and giving me a platform is what I'm hoping happens throughout America.
00:57:48.000I mean, he talks all the time about how much he thinks marriage is a waste of time, and stupid, and kids are annoying, and how he's an atheist.
00:57:55.000And I, you know, I was married for 20 years.
00:58:57.000And I've just, you know me, I'm super casual.
00:59:00.000Even when I was on ESPN and SportsCenter, I always tried to make every three-minute interview conversational.
00:59:06.000That's what, as a consumer and a viewer, I want.
00:59:09.000But it isn't about, okay, You know, your resume, your statistics, and your political views.
00:59:16.000I mean, okay, here and there a little bit, but to me, the core of everything, what I want to know about every person I meet, it can be annoying to some if I'm in the grocery store.
00:59:24.000My kids are like, mom, stop getting their life story.
00:59:38.000Because for public figures like us, and people a lot bigger than me, like, okay, it looks all fine and dandy, and oh, she's happy, and look, my—oh, her makeup artist did a really good job today.
00:59:50.000And when you're willing to talk about those things and show some vulnerability, What I have found through my ups and downs is that it's been super therapeutic for me to get these things out that I'd been holding in for a long time for fear of being disliked, for fear of being cancelled, all of the above.
01:00:07.000And also, gosh, it helps other people to realize, oh, wow.
01:00:13.000Like, I feel that way too, and they're not alone.
01:00:16.000So, Dana shared some really interesting things about what he's been through publicly, you know, and how he chose to handle them.
01:00:23.000That's what the theme of it is, really, is it's a conversation and To get people to share those things, because it helps others.
01:00:32.000And some of the other guests that we have coming up did that.
01:00:35.000Listen, one of the requirements is when you walk in, you have to pick a pair of fuzzy socks out of this basket that I have.
01:00:41.000Because, like, even now, I have jeans on and fuzzy socks whenever I talk, because that makes me feel comfortable, and I share more.
01:00:47.000A glass of wine helps too, and sometimes there's some of that there as well.
01:00:51.000And so, yes, Dana White, big bad Dana White, with his, you know, leather jacket and his camo pants, he had a pair of Hot pink and white fuzzy socks on during our conversation, you know?
01:01:02.000And I just feel like it helps people relax and it's just getting to know people and getting people to share a little bit because I feel like that will help so many of us heal in a country that needs some healing.
01:01:15.000So no spoilers, but who are the people you haven't interviewed yet who are kind of your dream interviews that you want to get on the show?
01:01:46.000Like, I want to know about that person.
01:01:49.000Condoleezza Rice is a hero of mine and I've met her several times and she's been awesome to me.
01:01:53.000That woman is one of my, yeah, one of my heroes for sure because of how she's chosen to handle things through the years, what she's overcome, how classy she's been with all of it.
01:02:04.000She has that green jacket at the Masters at Augusta National, really a black woman who comes from the South.
01:02:10.000Like, I want to know more about her core.
01:02:12.000It's going to be tough with some of these people because they're very guarded, and I understand why.
01:02:16.000I told someone yesterday, I want to talk to the Kardashians.
01:02:26.000And yes, they have the show that one of my daughters made me watch, and I was like, oh But you know what?
01:02:31.000I watch it because that's what's out there and I want to learn about these people who have this grand life and millions and billions of dollars and struggles, you know?
01:02:41.000I don't know if they'll talk to me, I hope so, but it's just not about all the cool stuff that you've done.
01:02:57.000I have some challenges I'm putting out there to myself to try to convince people to be comfortable enough to trust me with that kind of a setting, you know?