The Ben Shapiro Show - November 29, 2022


Why China's Covid Tyranny Should Scare Us All | Ep. 1619


Episode Stats

Length

43 minutes

Words per Minute

218.46912

Word Count

9,609

Sentence Count

587

Hate Speech Sentences

27


Summary

Mass protests continue in China over the regime s zero-coverge policy. The stock market takes a hit as fallout continues from China s failures, and Elon Musk goes to war with Apple. On the show, we re going to talk about why it s kind of important that you fight back against Big Tech, and their government friends, including in places like China. This show is sponsored by ExpressVPN. It s time to stand up against big tech. Protect your data at Express VPN. Get 3 extra months of ExpressVPN for FREE. That s E-XP-R-E-S-V-P-N-N - that s ExpressVPN on all my devices to make it much more difficult for big tech companies to exploit my data for their own profits. I use ExpressVPN to use the internet without interruption, and it s incredibly easy to use. I m free to roam the internet free from big tech s prying eyes. So, if you don t like Big Tech tracking you and selling your personal data for profit, fight back by using ExpressVPN! You can t miss it. It s $7.99 a month, and you ll get 3 months free of most major credit cards, insurance, and a bunch of other goodies. You ll get 99% of the features you ve been looking for, plus an ad-free version of the show on the App Store and Google Play. The App Store, too! and the Google Play Store, so you can get 20% off your first month, plus free shipping throughout the rest of the year, for as long-term, up to $99 a year, and an additional $99.99 in the second month, including two months from the third year, plus two years, free of shipping and two months of shipping, shipping and shipping, plus a third year of Vimeo Pro, plus they'll get you an extra $99, you get a maximum of $150 a year of the Vimeo membership plan, and they get a discount on your choice of your choice, and all of that gets you access to Vimeo Prime membership, and Vimeo gets you get an ad discount, they get it all that you decide you get it. Vimeo is giving you a $150, plus Vimeo Plus they'll also get $50, they also get you all of your ad-only deal, plus she gets a discount, and she gets it all you can vouch for you, too, Vimeo says she s going to get it, she s gonna love it.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Mass protests continue in China over the regime's zero COVID policy.
00:00:04.000 The stock market takes a hit as fallout continues from China's failures and Elon Musk goes to war with Apple.
00:00:08.000 I'm Ben Shapiro.
00:00:09.000 This is the Venture Bureau Show.
00:00:10.000 This show is sponsored by ExpressVPN.
00:00:18.000 It's time to stand up against big tech.
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00:02:34.000 Well, the chaos continues in China as mass protests continue across China.
00:02:38.000 The consequences for the regime are yet unknown, but there's some serious questions to be asked about zero COVID policy generally.
00:02:45.000 And the West is letting itself off a little bit easy here.
00:02:48.000 What I mean by this?
00:02:49.000 Is that right now, the sort of resistance that you are seeing in China to China's zero COVID policy, which has been spurred by the fact that China was literally welding people into apartment buildings to prevent them from leaving because they may have had COVID.
00:03:01.000 And this resulted in a fire in an apartment building that killed 10 people.
00:03:05.000 And that has resulted in all of the chaotic demonstrations that you're seeing, the so-called white paper revolution over there.
00:03:11.000 The West is letting itself off easy because for literally two years, China was held up as a quasi-model for this sort of behavior.
00:03:17.000 China was lying to the world.
00:03:19.000 They lied about the release of the virus.
00:03:21.000 They knew, apparently, according to Scott Gottlieb of the FDA, as early as October or at the very latest, November of 2019, there was human-to-human transmission of the virus, and they allowed it to escape Wuhan and infect literally millions of people around the world.
00:03:32.000 The virus ended up killing over 1.5 million Americans, according to the latest CDC statistics.
00:03:38.000 And meanwhile, the media, members of the White House, including Anthony Fauci, sort of covered for the Chinese.
00:03:44.000 They suggested that the Chinese were doing it right.
00:03:46.000 And all over the world, there was talk about how there needed to be lockdowns.
00:03:49.000 There needed to be.
00:03:50.000 the sort of Chinese authoritarianism that would get this thing stopped in its tracks.
00:03:54.000 Now the problem is twofold.
00:03:55.000 One, it didn't stop things in its tracks in China.
00:03:57.000 China lied about everything.
00:03:58.000 They lied about their stats.
00:03:59.000 They lied about illness.
00:04:00.000 They lied about death.
00:04:01.000 They lied about the virus itself.
00:04:02.000 They kept the actual virus's DNA composition hidden for literally months so that people couldn't develop the vaccine earlier and therefore save many, many lives, particularly of the elderly.
00:04:12.000 But all over the world, the press praised people who locked down hard.
00:04:16.000 So if you're Andrew Cuomo and you were sort of a lockdown advocate, you were the greatest.
00:04:19.000 And if you were Ron DeSantis, then you were Ron Deathsantis.
00:04:22.000 If you were New Zealand's Jacinda Ardern and you were talking about locking down the entire country for months on end, you were a great heroine of the world, saving lives every day.
00:04:32.000 If you were Australia and you were tracking down Teenagers were hanging out by themselves on the beach and you had dystopian images of drones that were following people on the beach, arresting people.
00:04:41.000 Oh my God, somebody has COVID.
00:04:43.000 We have to track them down using the hound from Fahrenheit 451.
00:04:46.000 This was considered good policy by a lot of people on the left, a lot of people in the media.
00:04:52.000 And China was seen as a model for all of this.
00:04:54.000 And so now there's an attempt to walk back the sort of enthusiasm for lockdown, the enthusiasm for Chinese methodologies.
00:05:02.000 There's an attempt to walk that back because obviously it, number one, didn't work.
00:05:06.000 And number two, it actually is violative of human freedoms.
00:05:09.000 But we should not forget that if given the opportunity, there are a lot of people in authority who use single factor analysis to determine what to do in times of crisis, who would go along with the kind of stuff that we have seen in China and are continuing to see in China.
00:05:23.000 There are a lot of people go along with that.
00:05:25.000 And this is Through the nature of a bureaucratic Western state, bureaucracies tend to operate along single factor analysis lines.
00:05:32.000 So, politicians are elected to weigh and balance.
00:05:35.000 There's a lot of talk at the very beginning of COVID about how we should figure out what public policy look like.
00:05:39.000 Should this be up to the bureaucrats like Dr. Fauci over at the NIH?
00:05:42.000 Or should it be up to the elected politicians, even the ones you don't like, like President Trump?
00:05:46.000 Who should actually make the policy?
00:05:47.000 And the best politicians were the ones who actually came out and said, I am making the call.
00:05:51.000 I was elected to make this call because there are a lot of questions as to how we make this balance.
00:05:56.000 Do kids get to go to school?
00:05:57.000 There are serious costs to kids not going to school.
00:05:58.000 Can you go and open your workplace?
00:06:00.000 There are serious costs to you staying home.
00:06:02.000 Should we just force everybody to stay home and blow trillions of dollars into the economy, creating an unprecedented inflation spiral that is going to result in some pretty serious global economic consequence?
00:06:11.000 And these are all questions that politicians should have been asking themselves.
00:06:14.000 But the easiest thing in a bureaucratic republic to do is kick it over to the bureaucrats.
00:06:19.000 And if you are a bureaucrat, your chief goal is to focus in on the one thing that allows you to keep your job.
00:06:25.000 The mission of your agency is something that James Q. Wilson talks about in his book, Bureaucracy, that agencies are typically designed in order to facilitate their quote-unquote mission.
00:06:35.000 But if the mission is very specific, it becomes the only thing that they care about.
00:06:39.000 So if the mission for the NIH is quote-unquote, save lives, then all the other factors go out the window.
00:06:44.000 All of the costs of keeping people out of school, all the costs of shutting down your business, all the economic costs, all the costs and loneliness and deaths of despair, all that stuff goes out the window because you have one goal and one goal only, and that is zero COVID.
00:06:54.000 And for a very long time, that was the policy of the United States.
00:06:57.000 Dr. Anthony Fauci was preaching this.
00:06:59.000 He was suggesting, without any sort of actual statistical evidence, that we were going to get to something approaching zero COVID.
00:07:08.000 He would suggest that we get to less than 10,000 cases a day, and then he would set an arbitrary marker, maybe 40,000 cases a day, maybe zero cases a day.
00:07:14.000 But he would say, the more cases there are, the worse it is.
00:07:16.000 And the problem with that is that that facilitates a logic that leads to lockdowns.
00:07:21.000 That is a problem.
00:07:22.000 And we knew from the very beginning.
00:07:24.000 Really, from like a couple of months in, it was fully obvious that lockdowns were not going to solve this problem.
00:07:30.000 There were those of us in the media who were talking about the idea that if you actually wanted to protect and shield the population, you need to focus on protecting and shielding the most vulnerable.
00:07:37.000 Because it was very clear from the evidence that the people who were chiefly affected by this were people with serious pre-existing conditions, serious obesity, diabetes, cancer, leukemia, and the very elderly.
00:07:48.000 And the stats showed that.
00:07:49.000 I mean, if you actually look at the CDC statistics today, what you will see is that as of today, 76.1% of all people in the United States who died of COVID were above the age of 65, which we knew from very early on, which would have suggested that if we actually wanted to pursue anything remotely like herd immunity, what we should have been doing is tranching out the population by age.
00:08:07.000 What we should have been doing is saying, all the 20-year-olds go back to work.
00:08:09.000 Okay, y'all got infected and you're all fine because you're 20.
00:08:12.000 Now all the 30-year-olds go back to work.
00:08:13.000 Okay, you're all fine.
00:08:15.000 Now all the 40-year-olds get back to work.
00:08:16.000 And what you're doing is you're cutting down the vectors of transmissibility.
00:08:19.000 But not only are you cutting down the factors of transmissibility, you're also allowing people to go back to work in tranches and you are shielding the most vulnerable.
00:08:26.000 That would have been the smartest approach throughout.
00:08:29.000 And by the way, I should mention that right now in the United States, again, these are CDC statistics, 94% of all people who have died from COVID are above the age of 50.
00:08:37.000 94%.
00:08:38.000 So it is no surprise that we find that in the latest upsurge in COVID, COVID deaths are skewing older.
00:08:44.000 Again, according to the Washington Post, President Biden may have declared the coronavirus pandemic over, but from John Felton's view as the Yellowstone County Health Officer in Billings, Montana, it's not over, just different.
00:08:53.000 Now more than ever, it is a plague of the elderly, but it was always a plague of the elderly.
00:08:56.000 I'm amused to see the Washington Post pretend that this is like a breaking news thing.
00:09:00.000 It was not breaking news.
00:09:01.000 We knew very early on that young people were disproportionately fine from this virus.
00:09:06.000 In October, Felton's team logged six deaths due to the virus, many of them among vaccinated people.
00:09:11.000 They're ages 80s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 90s.
00:09:15.000 Yellowstone County made the decision early in the crisis to recognize each death individually.
00:09:18.000 Felton said it is important as ever to acknowledge the unrelenting toll on a still vulnerable older generation while most everyone has moved on.
00:09:23.000 But that is the thing about being old, is that older people tend to die.
00:09:27.000 The death rates among people in their 90s are much higher than the death rates among people in their 20s.
00:09:32.000 So, what you're talking about here is vulnerable people tend to be vulnerable, which is not any sort of breaking news.
00:09:38.000 And by the way, this is the area in which the vaccines have had their most significantly positive effect.
00:09:43.000 I mean, people above the age of 65 who got the vaccines, particularly, had significantly lower rates of death from COVID and lower rates of serious disease from COVID than people who did not get the vaccine if you're above the age of 65.
00:09:53.000 But again, we knew from the beginning that this was true.
00:09:56.000 We knew from the beginning that it was disproportionately older people who are going to die of COVID.
00:10:01.000 And yet there was this push for broad lockdown and there was enthusiasm about that continues until this day.
00:10:10.000 And so there are two things that are worth noting about China.
00:10:12.000 One is obviously the geopolitical chaos that is ensuing because of the unrest in China.
00:10:17.000 What does it mean for China's foreign policy?
00:10:19.000 What does it mean for China cracking down on its own citizens?
00:10:21.000 What should the West do?
00:10:22.000 That's one issue.
00:10:23.000 The second issue is we look at what China is doing right now with these lockdowns and has been doing for a couple of years with these lockdowns.
00:10:29.000 And you wonder, Is that sort of authoritarianism totally foreign to the West?
00:10:33.000 Is that something that could quote unquote never happen here?
00:10:37.000 Or should we be looking at China and should be very wary about the kind of powers we give to government?
00:10:42.000 Because again, our government was rather warm on this sort of stuff until very, very recently.
00:10:48.000 And literally this week, Anthony Fauci, who is going to leave his job, we can only pray sooner rather than later.
00:10:54.000 Anthony Fauci was asked about shutting schools down again going into the winter.
00:10:59.000 And he kind of started weirdly giggling about it on Face the Nation.
00:11:02.000 It was odd.
00:11:03.000 Coming out of the holidays, should parents expect schools to shut down?
00:11:08.000 I don't know, Margaret.
00:11:10.000 I'm not sure.
00:11:12.000 When you talk about shutting down schools, there's always the collateral effects.
00:11:16.000 That's also radioactive.
00:11:18.000 Exactly.
00:11:19.000 There's always the collateral issues.
00:11:23.000 That's a weird laugh.
00:11:24.000 I mean, he says now that there are collateral issues, but very early on, he was very much pushing for these sorts of shutdowns.
00:11:29.000 And he still sees circumstances in which lockdowns would be a net positive.
00:11:35.000 Go back to April, and he was talking about Chinese policy, and he says, listen, China may be doing it too long, but is lockdown policy really the worst idea?
00:11:41.000 I mean, if it gets people vaccinated, maybe it's something that you might have to do sometimes.
00:11:44.000 Here's Anthony Fauci conditionally endorsing Chinese policy.
00:11:48.000 Well, China has a number of problems, two of which are that their complete lockdown, which was their approach, a strictest lockdown that you'd never be able to implement in the United States.
00:12:02.000 Although that prevents the spread of infection and remember early on they were saying and I think accurately that they were doing better than almost anybody else.
00:12:12.000 But lockdown has its consequences.
00:12:14.000 You use lockdowns to get people vaccinated so that when you open up you won't have a surge of infections because you're dealing with an immunologically naive population to the virus because they've not really been exposed because of the lockdown.
00:12:33.000 Okay, but the problem is that Anthony Fauci considers the United States population largely immunologically naive.
00:12:38.000 He was out there just a few days ago now talking about how if there was a wave of death this winter, it was going to come from those who are unvaccinated.
00:12:45.000 So there are no standards there.
00:12:47.000 So the question becomes, what level of crisis is going to necessitate the sorts of lockdowns that we've been seeing in China?
00:12:53.000 By the way, it is worth noting here that Anthony Fauci has been bizarrely conciliatory toward the Chinese.
00:12:56.000 I mean, it is very, very weird because the fact is, again, China is the world's worst actor when it comes to this virus.
00:13:01.000 It is because of the Chinese government that literally millions of people are dead.
00:13:05.000 They've killed millions of people.
00:13:06.000 This virus did not have to escape Wuhan.
00:13:09.000 Whether it was released from a lab, whether it was not released from a lab, it did not have to escape Wuhan.
00:13:12.000 They knew early on what was going on.
00:13:14.000 They facilitated, they encouraged travel, and it killed five, six million people across the world.
00:13:18.000 And that is the fault of the Chinese government.
00:13:20.000 And yet, Fauci is still weirdly conciliatory with them.
00:13:23.000 He was asked actually this week about China not being forthcoming about the virus, and he actually blamed Trump.
00:13:29.000 Which is strange because if you actually remember to the beginning of the Trump administration, Trump was very conciliatory toward China.
00:13:35.000 In January of 2020, you remember that Donald Trump was actually talking about how the Chinese were doing a good job cracking down on it and they were being open about the virus and they were working with the WHO.
00:13:44.000 It was only later that Trump turned on China when he got the information or was willing to reveal the information that China had basically hidden a bunch of information.
00:13:50.000 But here's Fauci still kind of standing for China.
00:13:52.000 Weird.
00:13:54.000 Have you seen anything that Beijing has produced, at all, in terms of explanation or data?
00:14:00.000 Well, their explanation is an explanation that they will not allow us to look at the primary information.
00:14:05.000 We need a transparency and a collaboration to open things up so that we can discuss it in a non-accusatory way.
00:14:16.000 What happens is that if you look at the anti-China approach that clearly the Trump administration had right from the very beginning, and the accusatory nature, the Chinese are going to flinch back and say, no, I'm sorry, we're not going to talk to you about it.
00:14:31.000 OK, that's that's patently crazy.
00:14:33.000 OK, the Chinese, again, were hiding this thing from October of the year before.
00:14:37.000 And Anthony Fauci is out there standing for China.
00:14:39.000 By the way, it is worth noting here that Anthony Fauci was asked about whether the United States and the NIH in particular under his auspices had helped to fund gain of function research in Wuhan that led to the arising of this virus.
00:14:50.000 Well, we're almost certain, almost certain that it wasn't us.
00:14:55.000 I can't tell you what's going on in all of China and in other things, but I can tell you for sure that if you look at the viruses that the NIH grant funded to study in a surveillance way, anybody who even has a peripheral understanding of evolutionary virology will tell you these viruses could not possibly turn into SARS-CoV-2.
00:15:19.000 So when you talk about a leak, Maybe there's a lab leak, but it's not with the viruses that the NIH was funding.
00:15:25.000 That's almost certain that that's the case.
00:15:29.000 Almost certain is a pretty weird kind of hold back right there.
00:15:33.000 Okay, so the reason that I bring all of this up is because China is now using extraordinarily modern methodologies in order to surveil its own citizens.
00:15:40.000 And this is something that should scare people in the West.
00:15:42.000 Because if you look again at people like Anthony Fauci, Even if you take Anthony Fauci at his word that all he wants are sometimes very harsh temporary lockdowns, the question always becomes how temporary?
00:15:51.000 And the Biden administration is still declaring we're in the middle of a COVID emergency for purposes of relieving student loan debt.
00:15:57.000 And it is now November of 2022.
00:15:58.000 And this virus broke out in the United States in January of 2020.
00:16:02.000 It's fully two years later at this point.
00:16:06.000 And we're still doing this routine, which is insane.
00:16:10.000 And yet you still have Anthony Fauci out there doing it.
00:16:13.000 So the question becomes, should we be worried about a government that has the capacity to monitor all of its citizens the way that China does?
00:16:20.000 They should raise questions about tech.
00:16:22.000 They should raise questions about the sort of interfacing between big tech and big government.
00:16:27.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, China's COVID protesters are the targets of Beijing's surveillance state.
00:16:32.000 And the reality is that the KGB never could have dreamt of this level of surveillance.
00:16:36.000 The ability that the Chinese government has to monitor literally everyone.
00:16:39.000 I mean, they have a social credit system over there.
00:16:41.000 They're monitoring everybody's online.
00:16:42.000 They can monitor your phone.
00:16:43.000 They can make sure that they know exactly where you are at any time, literally any time.
00:16:48.000 There's never been a surveillance state like this in human history.
00:16:51.000 And the Chinese have perfected this.
00:16:53.000 Which means, by the way, that it's going to be very difficult for there to be an actual regime overthrow in a place like China, so long as the military retains its loyalty to Xi Jinping.
00:17:01.000 But this has some pretty significant ramifications for those of us who live in the West as well.
00:17:05.000 Because at any moment, you could have a government that declares an emergency over something like COVID and simply locks you in your home and then monitors you, cuts you off from the banking system.
00:17:13.000 It doesn't take somebody paranoid to see the line of where things could go if the wrong people are in charge.
00:17:20.000 Or if people take what they believe to be the most life-affirming decision in order to protect the most lives.
00:17:28.000 They just have to lock everybody in their house.
00:17:29.000 And if you violate the rules, then we follow you around.
00:17:31.000 Or let's say that it's disconnected entirely from things like the virus.
00:17:34.000 We have to foster and facilitate a set of social values that a huge percentage of the population doesn't like.
00:17:39.000 And in order to do that, we're going to unleash the surveillance state on you.
00:17:43.000 We're going to monitor exactly what you do.
00:17:45.000 We're going to monitor your credit card purchases.
00:17:46.000 We're going to cut you off from systems.
00:17:48.000 Because this is what China does.
00:17:49.000 And when these sorts of financial and surveillance weapons are out there, Usually an arms race begins by governments which are constantly seeking to centralize power.
00:17:59.000 And better to be a little bit too paranoid and reduce government power than to be not paranoid enough and give them enough power to actually destroy your liberty.
00:18:06.000 Because what we're watching in China is a tech surveillance state in service to an authoritarian regime.
00:18:12.000 Quote, Chinese police have begun leveraging the powers of the country's surveillance state to go after demonstrators who participated in rare public displays of defiance over the government's stringent COVID-19 protocols.
00:18:23.000 Wang Chengcheng, a lawyer providing legal support to more than 20 protesters from Beijing, Shanghai, and other cities, said at least 15 people, or their families and friends, reached out to her for help after being contacted by local police.
00:18:32.000 She said she suspected police had used data from mobile phones, including apps used to monitor COVID exposure, to track the movements of people involved in protests.
00:18:39.000 By the way, this is just another good reason why we should ban TikTok in the United States.
00:18:42.000 TikTok is a Chinese op, and it is one of the most successful Chinese ops in human history.
00:18:46.000 Police were also scanning social media accounts to investigate protesters.
00:18:49.000 According to this lawyer, a university student in Beijing who participated in Sunday's protest in the city said his school had been contacted by police.
00:18:56.000 The school told him police had used mobile phone data to track his movements to the vicinity of the protest.
00:19:00.000 He said he'd been asked to write a declaration explaining why he was present in the area at the time.
00:19:04.000 Under leader Xi Jinping, according to the Wall Street Journal, China has expanded its ability to track the movements and activities of its citizens.
00:19:10.000 While this didn't stop the protests from breaking out, China's security apparatus has begun to lean on it to prevent them from spreading.
00:19:15.000 Besides hundreds of millions of cameras, some equipped with facial recognition software that lines city streets, police can also access detailed mobile phone and social media data that shows locations of people at a given time.
00:19:24.000 The government has enhanced these capabilities over the past two years as part of contact tracing efforts to control the spread of the virus.
00:19:30.000 The efforts to track protesters came as Chinese health officials responded to the public anger over COVID-19 policies and appeared to recalibrate their message on the danger posed by the virus.
00:19:38.000 On Tuesday, the National Health Commission urged local government officials to avoid unnecessary and lengthy lockdowns.
00:19:43.000 Health officials said the Omicron variant led to less severe COVID cases than previous variants.
00:19:46.000 The message echoed a similar shift from Chinese state media, which is good news.
00:19:49.000 It seems like the Chinese government is beginning to realize that its lockdown policies are creating all sorts of chaos internally.
00:19:55.000 But again, if China decides to repress its people, it just will.
00:19:59.000 China's state media has continued to defend the country's zero-COVID policies, saying it has saved lives.
00:20:03.000 On Tuesday, a commentary in the People's Daily blamed more than a half-dozen private COVID-tested businesses for unnecessary lockdowns, accusing them of producing false positive results.
00:20:13.000 On Monday, the U.S.
00:20:14.000 embassy issued a notice of warning of expanded COVID control measures in China as the outbreaks grow.
00:20:19.000 It said, we encourage all U.S.
00:20:20.000 citizens to keep a 14-day supply of medications, bottled water, and food for yourselves and any members of your household.
00:20:26.000 All this should be enough to scare any person who loves liberty and who also seeks more than single-factor analysis in determining what public policy should look like.
00:20:34.000 We'll get to more on this in just one moment.
00:20:36.000 First, the ongoing threat of terrorism remains a sad fact of life in Israel, even as anti-Semitism rises around the world.
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00:21:36.000 That's benforthefellowship.org or text SHAPIRO to 41444.
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00:22:44.000 Now, there is something weird happening inside the Biden administration, which is that they are very reticent to condemn the Chinese government for its crackdown.
00:22:49.000 They seem really, really nervous about saying anything about this.
00:22:53.000 Now, there are two possible reasons for this.
00:22:54.000 One is geopolitical.
00:22:56.000 Joe Biden is not ready to go face-to-face, toe-to-toe with Xi Jinping over human rights violations in his own country, which, of course, would not be particularly surprising considering the West was completely silent over the complete repression of Hong Kong, the first communist takeover of a major country since the Vietnam War, essentially.
00:23:14.000 It is an amazing thing that the West just didn't care that Hong Kong was turned into a complete Chinese subject state as opposed to what was essentially a free state inside of China that was economically free at the very least.
00:23:27.000 And Chinese predations are going to grow.
00:23:29.000 We'll talk about Taiwan in just one moment.
00:23:30.000 So it's possible, number one, that Joe Biden just doesn't have either the means or the stones to go up against China, given what's happening right now.
00:23:37.000 The other possibility is that there's a really uncomfortable parallel between what China is doing right now and the people on the left who are praising this sort of policy five minutes ago.
00:23:47.000 Like you would imagine at the very least that the Biden administration would sympathize with the anti-lockdown politics of the people who are protesting in China.
00:23:56.000 The Biden administration might give them some sort of vocal support, say, well, you know, authoritarian lockdowns are a bad thing, but they refuse to say that.
00:24:03.000 And one of the reasons they refuse to say that is because again, until five minutes ago, a lot of the West, particularly left in the West, was very much pro the idea of locking people in their homes.
00:24:11.000 There were people in the West who were praising it.
00:24:13.000 So here is John Kirby.
00:24:15.000 Who is a national security spokesperson for the Biden administration saying that Joe Biden is not going to speak for the protesters in China.
00:24:20.000 They have a right to protest, but we're not going to say anything about what they're protesting.
00:24:24.000 I'm wondering what is the president's reaction when he hears protesters in China chant freedom or Xi Jinping step down?
00:24:33.000 The president is not going to speak for protesters around the world.
00:24:36.000 They're speaking for themselves.
00:24:39.000 So there's no reaction?
00:24:41.000 These protesters are speaking for themselves.
00:24:42.000 What we are doing is making it clear that we support the right of peaceful protest.
00:24:48.000 I don't even know what that means.
00:24:49.000 They're speaking for themselves?
00:24:50.000 I mean, you don't have any message whatsoever on what exactly they're saying or why they are saying it?
00:24:56.000 Isn't that a bit odd?
00:24:58.000 We are a free country, supposedly.
00:25:00.000 Shouldn't you be saying that other people have a right to go to their place of business?
00:25:03.000 That we shouldn't be locking literally hundreds of millions of people in their home or welding shut apartment buildings?
00:25:09.000 Why the reticence?
00:25:11.000 It's bizarre and strange, unless you assume that there's a certain level of discomfort inside this administration for condemning full-scale lockdowns because you never know, maybe in the future we might have to do something kind of like that.
00:25:21.000 As National Security Council Communications Coordinator Kirby, And then he was asked about whether the White House would condemn China for detaining protesters.
00:25:30.000 And even here, he was real shy.
00:25:33.000 The statement that was issued earlier today didn't include any explicit calls for China to stop detaining and harming protesters and journalists.
00:25:43.000 We're watching this closely, as you might expect we would.
00:25:43.000 Why not?
00:25:46.000 And again, we continue to stand up and support the right of peaceful protest.
00:25:51.000 And I think we're going to watch this closely and we'll see where things go.
00:25:56.000 What does that even mean?
00:25:57.000 We're going to watch this closely and see where things go?
00:25:58.000 I could say that about literally anything on earth.
00:26:02.000 And there's a mugging going on.
00:26:03.000 We're going to watch this closely.
00:26:04.000 We're going to see how that mugging down the street goes.
00:26:06.000 We'll watch it closely.
00:26:07.000 We'll see how it goes.
00:26:09.000 What are you even talking about?
00:26:11.000 I thought that you guys wanted to establish your moral leadership.
00:26:13.000 So just to get this straight, moral leadership, according to the Biden administration, consists of a few things.
00:26:17.000 It consists of putting trans flags in front of the Vatican.
00:26:19.000 It apparently consists of making empty promises about paying third world countries to Facilitates their move away from carbon based fossil fuels.
00:26:28.000 It means a global corporate income tax.
00:26:31.000 And it apparently means watching closely as China locks its citizens into apartment buildings and then lets them burn to death.
00:26:38.000 Great moral leadership happening here from the Biden administration.
00:26:41.000 Really, really solid stuff.
00:26:43.000 Now, meanwhile, the situation in China itself, geopolitically, is going to be pretty fraught here.
00:26:47.000 As I suggested yesterday, if Xi Jinping feels that the walls are closing in around him, this usually gives dictators a couple of possibilities.
00:26:54.000 One is significant internal repression plus external aggression.
00:26:58.000 And the other is some sort of conciliatory measures directed toward the population.
00:27:02.000 Xi has no history of conciliatory measures directed against the population or toward the population.
00:27:06.000 So that means that you're probably likely to see aggression against the home population as well as aggression on the foreign front.
00:27:11.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, President Xi faces a difficult choice between loosening China's zero-tolerance COVID-19 policy or doubling down on restrictions that have locked down neighborhoods and stifled the country's economy over the past three years.
00:27:22.000 Neither option is a good one for a regime focused on stability.
00:27:25.000 Stock markets around the globe declined Monday as protests in China fueled worries among investors about the outlook for the world's second-largest economy.
00:27:31.000 Xi's leadership is in a bind, said Wen Wen'an, a political scientist focused on China at the University of Michigan.
00:27:36.000 If they compromise and relax zero-COVID, they fear it'll encourage mass protests.
00:27:39.000 If they repress more, it'll create wider and deeper grievances.
00:27:42.000 Protesters across China have directly challenged the authority of the Chinese leader and the Communist Party in scenes unthinkable just a month ago, when Mr. Xi secured a third term in power.
00:27:50.000 In Shanghai over the weekend, protesters used call-and-response chanting to demand political change.
00:27:54.000 In Beijing, crowds shouted freedom.
00:27:57.000 In other large cities, demonstrators marched holding blank sheets of paper, a swipe at government censorship.
00:28:02.000 China experts say the protests are unlikely to translate into a leadership change in the near term at least.
00:28:06.000 But Beijing's dilemma is a tough one.
00:28:07.000 It could lift restrictions and risk a large and potentially deadly wave of COVID infections that could undermine its credibility.
00:28:12.000 That's not really what they're worried about.
00:28:14.000 Because again, what does China care if lots of people die?
00:28:16.000 China's an authoritarian regime.
00:28:18.000 They've killed literally tens of millions of their own citizens over the course of Mao's history.
00:28:21.000 Or it could crack down on the demonstrators and stick with a strict pandemic strategy that large parts of the population are clearly fed up with.
00:28:28.000 Widespread and public outpourings of political grievance have been extremely rare in a country where people have long consented to obey party authorities as long as they deliver prosperity and allow citizens relative freedom in their personal lives.
00:28:37.000 But of course, China is now reversing all of that.
00:28:40.000 There's a good piece by Zhang Lijian, a former Tiananmen Square protester and political prisoner of China over at the Washington Post saying, don't let China stage another Tiananmen massacre.
00:28:52.000 This person says what has happened over the past week has exceeded all my expectations.
00:28:55.000 First came the uprising by workers at a Foxconn factory complex, protesting dismal working conditions.
00:29:00.000 Then came nationwide protests after a fire in Xiangjiang that killed a number of people who were reportedly unable to escape the burning building because of harsh lockdown conditions.
00:29:07.000 The demonstrations began by expressing rage over harsh zero-COVID policies, but the protesters' demands quickly evolved into a movement demanding broader freedoms, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom from the diktats of the Communist Party.
00:29:18.000 We want to eat, not do coronavirus tests.
00:29:20.000 Reform, not cultural revolution.
00:29:21.000 Read one recent banner.
00:29:22.000 We want freedom, not lockdowns.
00:29:23.000 Elections, not rulers.
00:29:24.000 We want dignity, not lies.
00:29:25.000 Be citizens, not enslaved people.
00:29:28.000 This protester says, as someone who participated in the pro-democracy demonstrations at Tiananmen Square in 1989, I can't help feeling echoes of that moment in the events taking place in China right now. I was there when the Chinese Communist Party sent in troops to gun down protesters. I fear history can repeat itself today. The world should not underestimate the determination of Xi and the CCP to remain in power. The regime will make full use of all the resources at its disposal, including surveillance technology, the police and the intelligence services. For that reason, the international community should make use of all the tools available to it to support pro-democracy forces and to deter the Beijing
00:29:56.000 regime from resorting to force. Now again, this would require actual economic sacrifice by the United States, but that's economic sacrifice that probably we should be willing to make given the fact that we're willing to make pretty significant economic sacrifices on behalf of Ukraine.
00:30:09.000 And China is way more aggressive and way more powerful and way more threatening than Russia in terms of geopolitics.
00:30:17.000 Like the fact is that the United States should be seeking to reshore pretty much everything from China right now.
00:30:22.000 It's going to be super expensive.
00:30:24.000 It's going to be very costly and very difficult.
00:30:26.000 But it's something that needs to happen because China is a geopolitical foe with aggressive action on its mind.
00:30:33.000 As this protester says, above all, Western governments should not repeat their mistakes of 1989 when the United States and other democracies made little effort to deter then Chinese Communist Party leader Deng Xiaoping from massacring student protesters because they did not believe he would do it.
00:30:45.000 Today's Western leaders can openly show moral support for the protesters and encourage the Chinese authorities to engage in peaceful dialogue with them.
00:30:51.000 Western governments should also see this opportunity to collaborate more closely with human rights organizations and the Chinese diaspora to advance a greater understanding of human rights abuses within China.
00:30:59.000 I mean, this seems eminently correct.
00:31:03.000 And again, a lot of this seems to be tied into the Western unwillingness to face up to the threat that China poses because there are a lot of people making a lot of money from China.
00:31:14.000 The attempt to open up China, the belief that broader economic rights would eventually lead to broader political rights inside China has been completely thwarted by Xi.
00:31:26.000 The basic theory was you build a burgeoning middle class by opening up China to effectively state mercantilism.
00:31:32.000 A burgeoning middle class will want to hold on to its privileges and therefore will oppose government action that cracks down on those privileges in the name of the collective.
00:31:39.000 The problem is so long as you have a giant army willing to kill lots of people, You can have the best of both worlds if you are Xi.
00:31:47.000 Or, you can pick and choose.
00:31:48.000 You can say, it is more important for me to pursue my collective ambitions than it is to allow the middle class to continue to flourish in China.
00:31:54.000 I can just shoot people after all.
00:31:56.000 And so, what that's meant is that Western countries seem more dependent on China than China is on the West, as long as what you believe is that China doesn't care that much about its economy, it cares a lot more about its internal stability.
00:32:10.000 This has always been the case with, for example, North Korea.
00:32:12.000 You can use whatever economic measures you want with North Korea.
00:32:14.000 The fact is that they are living in abject poverty in North Korea.
00:32:16.000 There's basically one light on and it's in Kim Jong-un's palace.
00:32:20.000 And they will continue to maintain power because they will just shoot anybody who gets in their way.
00:32:24.000 China, under Xi, could do exactly the same thing, which means that in terms of sort of capitalistic dependency, all of these major companies that have put iPhone production in China, for example, if you're Apple, That's going to have severe cost.
00:32:37.000 But that is a cost that the West is going to have to be willing to bear because the bottom line is this.
00:32:42.000 China is not a friend.
00:32:43.000 China is a foe.
00:32:44.000 And China is not just a foe.
00:32:46.000 China is a wildly aggressive foreign power that is seeking to subvert the world order and particularly U.S.
00:32:53.000 power abroad.
00:32:55.000 Apple right now is in serious trouble, by the way.
00:32:57.000 According to the Wall Street Journal, Apple's short-term problems depend on the patience of its most lucrative iPhone buyers.
00:33:02.000 Its long-term problems will require the patience of a much larger constituency.
00:33:05.000 Growing unrest in China has affected production of Apple's devices there.
00:33:08.000 The company warned on November 6th that COVID restrictions at an assembly plant in Zhengzhou were resulting in significantly reduced capacity for producing the iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max models.
00:33:17.000 The situation has only grown worse since, as lockdowns have helped spark more protests across the country to a level unseen in decades.
00:33:22.000 That threatens the sales mix that investors were counting on to help prop up iPhone revenue in the December quarter.
00:33:26.000 If we're entering a recession and then we are also attenuating trade ties with China, the recession is going to get a lot worse.
00:33:31.000 But again, these are measures that the U.S.
00:33:33.000 government should have been moving toward over the course of the past couple of decades once it became clear That Chimerica, as historian Neil Ferguson says, was a failure on the geopolitical front.
00:33:44.000 And it was effectively offshoring jobs to China, which made the economy globally more efficient and created lower prices, but also enmeshed American companies in doing the business of China.
00:33:55.000 Right now, Apple is apparently shutting down airdrops in China.
00:34:00.000 Like they're preventing airdrops to prevent communications from going on at the behest of the Chinese government because they do so much business in China.
00:34:07.000 Once these companies are dependent on the Chinese government, they're obviously going to cater to the Chinese government.
00:34:13.000 Which brings us to the clash between Elon Musk and Apple.
00:34:16.000 Because again, if you're talking about Musk, who is a pro-free speech advocate, you're talking about Apple, which has been willing to do the actual bidding of the Chinese authoritarian government.
00:34:26.000 That is a conflict that is not going to be solved between Apple and Elon Musk in a clash of ideas.
00:34:32.000 Because that is a clash of interests, not just a clash of ideas.
00:34:34.000 And that clash of interests can really only be solved by collectivized governmental action by the West in defense of its own interests.
00:34:41.000 And that means actual restrictions on doing business in China.
00:34:45.000 That's something that is going to have to happen in short order.
00:34:46.000 We'll get into that in a second.
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00:36:34.000 Okay, so there are a lot of people when we talk about trade with China who use the word globalization or global or globalists.
00:36:42.000 So I think that there are two definitions that we need to separate out.
00:36:44.000 One is the idea that trade generally benefits the partners in trade.
00:36:48.000 That is true economically speaking.
00:36:50.000 The problem is what if your partner in trade also hates you security wise and is trying to undermine your position on a lot of other issues?
00:36:57.000 And so globalization generally is good for the trading partners in terms of both of their economies.
00:37:01.000 We've gotten a lot of cheap products here in the United States.
00:37:03.000 The jobs that we've lost in manufacturing were made up in the services sector.
00:37:07.000 It's had significant downstream effects for people in particular areas of the United States, but pretending that trade with China was overall sort of a bad economic deal for the United States is not true.
00:37:15.000 However, it was a bad security deal for sure.
00:37:18.000 And the fact is that now that we've had all of our corporations basically turned inside out because they want access to the 1.5 billion person Chinese market and they manufacture all their products super cheap over in China, this means that a lot of those corporations can now be weaponized against American interests.
00:37:32.000 And this is precisely what's happening with Apple.
00:37:35.000 You have a lot of globalized corporations who do not have America's security interests at heart are trying to cut deals with China in order to facilitate their own profits.
00:37:43.000 And that's what economics does.
00:37:46.000 I mean, you try to facilitate your own profits no matter how you do it.
00:37:49.000 Nobody ever said that Apple was going to have American security first and foremost in mind, but you know who should?
00:37:53.000 The United States government.
00:37:54.000 And the same thing is true of the UK government.
00:37:56.000 By the way, Rishi Sunak, the new Prime Minister of Britain, he just declared the golden relationship, the era of golden sort of relations between the UK and China over.
00:38:05.000 He did that actually today.
00:38:07.000 So it seems like the West is starting to get active on this.
00:38:11.000 But this sets up a real debate over within corporate America.
00:38:15.000 That latest debate is broken out into the open over a couple of issues.
00:38:18.000 One is TikTok and the other is Apple.
00:38:20.000 So with regard to TikTok, there are a lot of people in the United States who are stumping for not closing down TikTok in the United States.
00:38:25.000 It's massively popular.
00:38:26.000 It's incredibly viral.
00:38:27.000 Their algorithms are incredibly sophisticated.
00:38:29.000 Usually algorithms on social media sites are based on spending a certain amount of money in order to promote videos and then maybe it goes a little bit viral and the algorithm picks up on that and facilitates.
00:38:38.000 TikTok picks up on what it believes are the things most likely to go viral and starts magnifying those even if it's just some weirdo in his basement filming something.
00:38:46.000 It's a very sophisticated algorithm, so sophisticated and so viral and so dangerous that China does not allow the US version of TikTok in China.
00:38:53.000 China actually uses TikTok as an educational tool in China.
00:38:56.000 It uses it as a mind virus in the United States and the rest of the West.
00:38:59.000 But there are a lot of politicians who aren't willing to shut down TikTok because, again, the idea is that we have to facilitate good relations and trade with the Chinese.
00:39:06.000 Apple is doing the same thing.
00:39:07.000 Apple stumps for open relations with China because they make a lot of money over in China.
00:39:12.000 Meanwhile, Apple is, well, while they crack down on the protesters in China at the behest of the Chinese government, they're also apparently now cracking down on Twitter.
00:39:21.000 According to the New York Times, Elon Musk tweeted on Monday to Tim Cook.
00:39:25.000 What's going on here, Tim Cook?
00:39:27.000 Tim Cook, of course, is the chief executive of Apple.
00:39:29.000 In a series of tweets over 15 minutes, Musk, the new owner of Twitter, accused Apple of threatening to withhold Twitter from its App Store, a move that would limit some new users from downloading the app.
00:39:38.000 The action would amount to censorship, Musk said, with no explanation from Apple for why Twitter would be blocked.
00:39:44.000 He added that Apple had also reduced its advertising spending on Twitter.
00:39:47.000 He says, Apple has mostly stopped advertising on Twitter.
00:39:49.000 Do they hate free speech in America?
00:39:51.000 Well, I mean, this is a serious question.
00:39:52.000 Seriously.
00:39:52.000 Why is Apple minimizing its advertising suddenly on Twitter?
00:39:57.000 But it's doing the work of the Chinese government in China.
00:40:01.000 With his tweets, Musk set the stage for a powerful struggle with Cook, who holds immense influence over other tech companies through Apple's dominance.
00:40:07.000 Musk has a vested interest now in Apple's cloud because of his ownership of Twitter, which he bought last month for $44 billion.
00:40:12.000 Twitter is distributed through Apple's App Store and is used by iPhone and iPad owners around the world.
00:40:17.000 In one tweet, Musk implied he was ready for war with Apple.
00:40:19.000 Musk has been poised to confront Apple since taking over Twitter.
00:40:22.000 His business plan is predicated on shifting its revenue from a dependence on advertising to a greater reliance on subscription sales.
00:40:27.000 But any new subscription revenue will be subject to Apple's practice of taking as much as a 30% cut.
00:40:32.000 Musk's complaints also come at a pivotal time for Apple.
00:40:34.000 There's a push in Congress during the final months of the year to advance a series of antitrust laws.
00:40:38.000 Among the bills under consideration is the Open App Markets Act, which seeks to give developers more control over their apps and allow them to skirt the fees that Apple and Google charge.
00:40:47.000 Gene Munster, the managing partner of Loop Ventures, a technology research firm, says Elon is the latest chapter in a push to make app store fees lower.
00:40:54.000 This will resurrect a topic that's been fairly quiet over the past six months.
00:40:57.000 Musk has actually threatened that maybe he will release a Twitter phone, essentially, and he'll build his own phone company if it is not possible for Apple to force Apple to open up the app store.
00:41:06.000 Apple has increasingly faced a backlash from app developers, as well as pressure from regulators and politicians around the world over its App Store policies.
00:41:12.000 The App Store has become a prime gateway where billions of iPhone users download Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat, games, all sorts of other programs, making it an arbiter of software distribution.
00:41:20.000 Apple then uses those fees to pay a staff of several hundred people who review each app that it distributes.
00:41:24.000 The company has said its app reviewers protect customer privacy and security, as well as preventing them from being subjected to fraud.
00:41:31.000 So all of this is, yes, market driven.
00:41:34.000 And yes, Musk would prefer to pay less money to Apple for subscriptions that are bought to Twitter from Apple.
00:41:39.000 But there are serious questions about how Apple does its business globally speaking.
00:41:42.000 And the only way to solve that is not to quote unquote punish Apple for doing business in China.
00:41:46.000 The way to solve that is for the entire West to unify in opposition to China's policy to encourage reshoring of businesses away from China, including Apple.
00:41:56.000 And again, there are companies that have refused to do business in China specifically because of this.
00:42:00.000 I mean, all credit to Mark Zuckerberg, a phrase that I don't say very often, over at Facebook.
00:42:04.000 I mean, Zuckerberg has said he is not going to follow the Chinese protocols with regard to free speech, which is why Facebook is not available in China.
00:42:11.000 So, you know, the sort of battle over free speech, which right now is happening in the private sphere, is likely to extend into the public sphere as well as Chinese policy is implicated.
00:42:21.000 Meanwhile, I got to say, this is amazing.
00:42:22.000 So Corinne Jean-Pierre was asked yesterday about Twitter and about quote-unquote misinformation appearing on Twitter.
00:42:29.000 And she had much harsher words to say here about Elon Musk and Twitter than the administration has to say about the Chinese government that is currently locking people up and or maybe killing them if they protest the regime.
00:42:41.000 Here she was saying, we're going to be looking into Twitter.
00:42:44.000 Not TikTok, a Chinese government propaganda outlet.
00:42:48.000 We'll be looking into Twitter.
00:42:50.000 Are you concerned about, you know, Elon Musk says there's more and more subscribers coming online.
00:43:00.000 Are you concerned about that?
00:43:01.000 And what tools do you have?
00:43:03.000 Who is it at the White House that is really keeping track of this?
00:43:07.000 So look, this is something that we're certainly keeping an eye on.
00:43:11.000 And look, we have always been very clear that when it comes to social media platforms, it is their responsibility to make sure that when it comes to misinformation, when it comes to the hate that we're seeing, that they take action, that they continue to take action.
00:43:36.000 Amazing stuff from the White House.
00:43:37.000 The White House very upset with Elon Musk and the ability for people to use that app to distribute information they don't like.
00:43:44.000 Not so interested in China cracking down on its own citizenry after all those protesters are speaking for themselves.
00:43:50.000 Alrighty guys, the rest of the show is continuing right now.
00:43:51.000 You're not going to want to miss it.
00:43:52.000 We'll be getting into a Biden administration employee most famous for puppy play, getting caught stealing women's luggage, and plenty more.