In this episode of The Blueprint, Conservative MP and Shadow Minister for the Environment Ed Fass joins me to talk about the Conservative Environmental Plan and why it's so different from the Liberals' carbon tax and carbon pricing plan.
00:00:00.220Welcome to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton-Korthaleg's Brock, and our topic is a real plan to protect the environment.
00:00:11.200You're listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:16.860The cost of living keeps going up, deficits keep going up, and he has to raise taxes to pay for his out-of-control spending.
00:00:25.440Talk is cheap, except when this finance minister does it. It's very expensive.
00:00:30.000It's the fact that he punished two strong women for doing the right thing, while he moved hell and high water to protect his buddies at SNC-Lavalin from facing a day in court.
00:00:45.120Welcome to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament's Halliburton-Korthaleg's Brock.
00:00:51.500With me is Ed Fass, the Member of Parliament for Abbotsford, and also the Shadow Minister for the Environment.
00:00:57.960It's an honour to have you on the show after the big release of the Conservative Environmental Plan.
00:01:03.960Well, good to be on your show, Jamie. The release yesterday of our Conservative Environment Plan.
00:01:10.120Absolutely. And when Ed Fass comes on the podcast, we get a banner, and we get flags and everything. It's amazing.
00:01:29.820Oh, thank you. You're too kind. You're too kind. Re-elect Jamie Schmael.
00:01:33.660Anyways, we're going to talk about the Environmental Plan because it is a pretty amazing document.
00:01:38.460It is pretty massive in terms of its size, scope, depth, breadth.
00:01:43.780It kind of covers all the bases, but also focuses on our Conservative principles by letting people keep more of the money they earn and helping them get ahead in life.
00:01:53.280Absolutely. Our plan is one that shifts the focus from taxes to clean technology because we know that you can't tax your way to a clean environment.
00:02:04.900So how do we get to the targets that Canada has?
00:02:07.900That's the question. Well, we know from the Parliamentary Budget Officer that focusing on clean technology and accelerating our clean technology development can actually gain us 100 megatons worth of emissions reductions,
00:02:23.060which, of course, are credited to Canada under our Paris Agreement targets.
00:02:27.480So this is really good news. It's a shift to clean tech away from taxation.
00:02:32.220But beyond that, we're also including the large emitters.
00:02:35.700You may recall under the Liberal plan, they were, for the most part, exempted from the carbon taxation, carbon pricing model that the Liberals brought in.
00:02:45.360Ours is quite different because what we're saying is, yes, you are going to be required to meet certain thresholds of environmental performance.
00:02:52.540If you exceed those thresholds, you will be assessed an amount that will be invested either by your company or by your industry or in a pooled fund or perhaps in a university research and development investment.
00:03:11.320But you will be investing in your own environmental success.
00:03:22.580Because whenever money ends up in the government's hands, it is spent on the government's own political priorities rather than things like the environment.
00:03:50.100And that's the problem I think we have as Conservatives.
00:03:53.020The plan that the Liberals had was more about taxation and redistribution.
00:03:57.200We are talking about encouraging the private sector to create the best product at the best price that the most amount of people can afford.
00:04:05.500And then we'll clean our environment domestically but also internationally.
00:04:08.960Yes, and our plan, of course, also has a number of programs that will be very attractive to Canadians.
00:04:19.700We're going to allow them to retrofit their homes.
00:04:22.140We're going to support them in that effort.
00:04:23.820Because we know that clean technology offers likely the best prospect in terms of technology to move us forward in the future in terms of reducing greenhouse emissions.
00:06:37.200How do we ensure that we are getting our technology out into the world, out into the marketplace, when we know that emissions have no borders?
00:06:46.800Well, one of the ways we should be doing that is by promoting the clean brand that Canada has.
00:06:55.100It brands Canada as the cleanest source of not only energy, but other products that can lead to greenhouse gas emission reductions.
00:07:06.880That's one thing we haven't seen from the Liberal government at all, is promoting our expertise, our knowledge, our know-how, our innovation as a country.
00:07:16.620And by the way, we don't have to do much to market this, because we know the Chinese are already knocking on our door.
00:07:22.940They've visited the CCS plant in Saskatchewan.
00:07:27.360The South Koreans are knocking on our door.
00:07:29.680The Germans have invested in CCS technology in Canada.
00:07:34.000So the world knows that we are world leaders, so why aren't we promoting that?
00:07:39.660The Liberal government has stood in the way and has not been helpful at all.
00:07:43.540You talk to some of the folks that are involved with this technology, they're saying,
00:07:46.880hey, listen, the Liberal government just has not been supportive of our technology.
00:07:55.260And I think you raise a very good point, because we could actually boost our economy.
00:07:59.820When the left talks about the green jobs, right, it's usually the government investing in whichever pilot project or pet project the government of the day wants to invest in.
00:08:10.760But this way, even by unleashing the private sector, we don't know what the next great fuel of the next generation will be, right?
00:08:25.800I know that government is not as well positioned to make the proper decisions when we're talking about choices, choices in the marketplace.
00:08:54.940We're saying, listen, you guys are going to have to meet our targets.
00:08:58.160You're going to have to meet the thresholds that we set.
00:09:00.280However, if you're above those thresholds, obviously, you need to do something to improve your environmental performance.
00:09:07.060But we're going to leave the money in your hands, provided that you meet our certification standards.
00:09:12.740You're going to invest it in your own R&D, research and development.
00:09:17.780And by doing that, we're letting the private sector identify what are the best solutions for them to actually achieve the results that all of us Canadians want to see achieved.
00:09:26.660The biggest problem I had with the carbon tax, especially from a rural area, is the lack of choices at the moment.
00:09:32.120The lack of affordable choices for those people.
00:09:35.100The people that don't have natural gas in my area, they're heating their homes with oil or propane.
00:09:40.580And right now, they're just being punished by the carbon tax.
00:09:43.780But right now, there are a few options, but not many that are very affordable for the average Canadian.
00:09:50.160But that's something you just mentioned many times.
00:09:52.600That's exactly what we're talking about.
00:09:54.560Providing people with the options and the ability, through the tax credit, to move into cleaner energy for their homes.
00:10:32.420And we're introducing this Clean Homes Credit Program to provide Canadians with a bit of an incentive to look at, okay, this is an opportunity.
00:10:42.720Because 12% of our emissions are related to buildings.
00:10:47.360Now, will this solve the whole problem?
00:10:58.300And one of the topics, if I quickly touch on it, because I think it's a very important piece to this whole puzzle, is the agriculture side.
00:11:07.000Our farming community is doing some amazing things with technology innovation right now.
00:11:12.420But our plan also includes that in part of the plan.
00:11:17.600Because we acknowledge that there is a role for the agriculture sector to play.
00:11:21.600They're already moving in that direction, but we're supporting them.
00:11:27.580How many times have you heard the Liberals, and more specifically our Environment Minister, Minister McKenna, mention the agricultural sector?
00:11:39.680I've never heard her talk about the…
00:11:41.460I don't think the Liberals have many times at all, anyway.
00:11:44.800I haven't heard her speak at all about our farmers and how they steward the land.
00:11:50.760The low-till and no-till methods that they use to keep carbon in the ground, which is, of course, also better in terms of the yields they get.
00:12:08.720And the farmers have never gotten credit for it.
00:12:11.460Our plan actually recognizes their contribution and says our government is going to stand in the gap next to them, helping them to continue to expand their ability to act in an environmentally responsible way.
00:12:24.960And which I think they're, I agree with you, I think they're doing that already, and they want to continue moving in that direction.
00:12:30.220But, you know, they want to do that, but also I think the marketplace is demanding that as well.
00:12:39.760I mean, the marketplace is the best place for ideas to percolate, for ideas to be promoted.
00:12:47.440The idea that government is a solution to all of men's problems, all of women's problems, it's just false.
00:12:54.520Government is inadequately positioned to actually make key decisions that can be better made in the marketplace, which is why, again, we're saying,
00:13:03.160let the private sector identify the green tech solutions that are going to work best for them.
00:13:10.960Let consumers keep the taxes in their pockets and make their own choices.
00:13:16.680And along that way, occasionally, we'll help them make those choices simply by providing incentives for them to actually go out there and make some choices.
00:13:26.240So what have we not touched on that you would like to finish with?
00:13:31.000Well, the thing I would finish with is our plan isn't only about clean technology.
00:13:36.760It's about pivoting in part to the global community and saying, listen, greenhouse gases and climate change are a global problem that requires global solutions.
00:13:50.100And there's no country that is better positioned to deliver those solutions than Canada, because we are so innovative.
00:13:58.220We have the know-how to help other countries around the world that are much more polluting than we are.
00:14:03.900So we need to start focusing in on technologies and products, even clean energy, that can help displace dirtier products elsewhere around the world.
00:14:16.640Canada is arguably the cleanest manufacturer of aluminum products.
00:14:22.160Why aren't we shipping more of aluminum around the world and displacing aluminum that's been created under very dirty production processes?
00:14:29.860And even the technology, the carbon capture and storage that I mentioned, why aren't we transferring that technology to key countries around the world that have significant pollution problems, reducing their emissions, Canada stepping into the gap, being a global partner and showing global leadership?