The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - August 01, 2019


A Real Plan to Protect our Environment – part 2

Topics
carbon sequestration and conservation conservative environmental plan results green tax credit incentives environmental progress smart regulations
Hosted by
Jamie Schmal
Mentioned
Jamie Schmael Winston Churchill Teddy Roosevelt Brian Mulroney River Nibawa Harper Nipawa
A Real Plan to Protect Our Environment A Safer Canada – Gun laws that target criminals

Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

158.44

Word count

2,888

Sentence count

193

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Conservative MP Bob Sopak and I discuss the long-awaited Environment Plan from the Conservative Party of Canada. We talk about how the plan addresses every environmental issue and factor in this country, from clean water, to clean air, to the role of hunters and anglers, to wetlands, to climate change. Nobody, no political party has ever put forth such a plan.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.040 Welcome to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:02.860 I'm your host, Jamie Schmail, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps of the Lakes, Brock.
00:00:06.600 And this week, our topic is a real plan to protect our environment.
00:00:11.140 You're listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:16.780 The cost of living keeps going up, deficits keep going up,
00:00:20.460 and he has to raise taxes to pay for his out-of-control spending.
00:00:25.320 Talk is cheap, except when this finance minister does it. It's very expensive.
00:00:30.000 It's the fact that he punished two strong women for doing the right thing 0.99
00:00:35.880 while he moved hell and high water to protect his buddies at SNC-Lavalin from facing a day in court.
00:00:45.780 Welcome to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:48.540 I'm your host, Jamie Schmail, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps of the Lakes, Brock.
00:00:52.200 And with me today is Bob Sopak, the one and only Member of Parliament for Dauphin, Swan, River Nibawa, in Manitoba.
00:00:59.780 Thank you so much for joining us, and it is an honour because you are a fisheries biologist by trade.
00:01:08.260 So what better person to have with us to talk about the long-awaited environment plan?
00:01:14.220 Now, this is something many people have been waiting for.
00:01:17.360 I think many Canadians have been looking for the Conservative plan,
00:01:21.520 and I think, in my opinion, I think it hits all the places we're supposed to hit.
00:01:27.060 And tell us why that is.
00:01:29.460 Well, if you look at the plan, and I have a copy in front of me here,
00:01:32.840 I mean, there's 60 pages and 58 different sections in it.
00:01:36.940 So this is the first comprehensive environment plan that any political party has ever written.
00:01:44.540 What I like about this plan, Jamie, is that it takes an ecosystem approach.
00:01:48.280 What I mean by that is this plan addresses every environmental issue and factor in this country,
00:01:55.740 from clean water to clean air to migratory birds to the role of hunters and anglers to wetlands to conservation and climate change.
00:02:04.680 Nobody, no political party has ever put forth such a plan.
00:02:10.500 Now, we have a number of sections to that, and it could be, as you mentioned,
00:02:15.400 it could be to help homeowners ensure that their own personal property is more energy efficient.
00:02:22.740 We talk about conservation as another major portion of this,
00:02:26.280 because that adds to the whole battle against climate change, the conservation part.
00:02:31.160 Maybe you can explain why.
00:02:32.120 Sure, it certainly does.
00:02:33.500 When we were drafting the plan here, we looked in the literature and actually came across
00:02:40.440 the carbon sequestration capabilities of certain conservation measures.
00:02:45.220 What that means is, Jamie, is that certain landscapes that are designed a certain way,
00:02:50.860 that are preserved, have the ability to suck carbon dioxide out of the air.
00:02:55.080 So there's two ways to get CO2 out of the air.
00:02:57.440 One is to limit emissions.
00:02:58.860 The other one is to put it back into the ground, whether it's in the soil or in the trees.
00:03:04.980 But what's really captivating about that particular approach, let's say we look at wetland conservation
00:03:11.020 and the carbon sequestration capabilities of wetlands.
00:03:14.580 But wetlands do a lot more than that. 0.62
00:03:18.160 Wetlands clean up water.
00:03:20.360 They conserve biodiversity.
00:03:23.820 And this is really important.
00:03:24.840 They also ameliorate the effects of flooding.
00:03:28.860 Because instead of the water rushing off the land fast and entering our rivers and streams
00:03:34.840 in a capacity that the river and stream can handle, these wetlands act as little sponges,
00:03:41.620 hold the water back, and slowly meter it out.
00:03:44.880 So this is actually a really conservative approach, Jamie, because the same dollar does five different
00:03:50.940 things, addresses climate change, mitigates the effects of climate change, and does all these
00:03:56.080 other things for the environment.
00:03:57.300 And that's why this conservative plan so reflects our conservative principles.
00:04:03.040 It's an efficient use of private and public sector funds to deliver multiple on-the-ground
00:04:09.540 benefits right across the country.
00:04:11.900 So let's talk about carbon capture and storage.
00:04:14.020 So that's a major piece of technology for our energy sector.
00:04:18.120 And that also is featured in the environmental plan.
00:04:21.540 Yeah, now the carbon capture and storage, as you know, when we were in government, we had
00:04:25.360 this major project at Esteban, the boundary power plant, the coal power plant in Saskatchewan.
00:04:31.800 And what was done there, I think some $700 million was invested.
00:04:36.360 All the carbon from that coal-fired plant is basically sucked off the end of the smokestack
00:04:43.100 and put back on the ground.
00:04:45.600 Now, at that point, this was about, oh, seven, eight years ago, the technology was very expensive.
00:04:50.840 In the research we did for the plan, there's a company in Europe that the cost is $600 a
00:04:57.940 ton, which is very expensive.
00:04:59.340 But the cost is going down very rapidly, and it's anticipated that the cost of carbon capture
00:05:04.480 and storage will go down to $200 a ton.
00:05:08.000 Now, what we're talking about now, that's quote-unquote artificial carbon capture and
00:05:11.820 storage.
00:05:12.480 And going back to the conservation side, we can consider that as natural carbon capture
00:05:17.960 and storage.
00:05:19.020 And this plan encompasses both approaches.
00:05:21.940 And again, as you well know, coming from the beautiful constituency that you have, Canadians
00:05:26.720 are in love with our landscapes.
00:05:28.300 They're in love with our lakes, love with our water, our birds, our fish.
00:05:31.640 Many people hunt and angle and trap and the commercial fish.
00:05:35.680 So it's bred into us as Canadians to love our landscapes.
00:05:41.760 And that's why I'm so proud of this particular plan, because that is addressed.
00:05:45.740 And a lot of things conservatives hold dear is what you just mentioned, because protecting
00:05:49.860 the environment is a conservative approach.
00:05:52.800 Well, for sure.
00:05:53.620 I mean, it's no accident that the word conservative and conservation, they come from the same root.
00:06:00.740 And again, when one looks at the track record of conservative governments, Brian Mulroney,
00:06:06.420 for example, was named Canada's greenest PPM.
00:06:09.760 And when one looks at what conservatives have done in North America, for example, Teddy Roosevelt,
00:06:15.120 who's one of my heroes.
00:06:16.160 He was president of the United States in the early 1900s.
00:06:19.680 He created most of the national parks.
00:06:22.240 He was the one that became most concerned about deforestation.
00:06:25.440 So again, right across North America, conservatives have nothing to be ashamed of when it comes
00:06:31.080 to the environment.
00:06:31.700 And how we differ from the other guys, and it's very, very stark.
00:06:36.320 They plan, they consult, they study, no result.
00:06:41.100 The great Winston Churchill said, a strategy is of no use unless there are some results.
00:06:48.040 So what we focus on as conservatives are environmental results.
00:06:51.460 And when we were in government, the recreational fisheries program, for example, 1,700 kilometers
00:06:57.500 of stream bank restored.
00:07:00.240 And the National Areas Conservation Plan, 800,000 hectares of valuable land conserved.
00:07:06.820 Sulfur dioxide emissions went down.
00:07:08.380 Nitrous oxide emissions went down.
00:07:11.860 And so that is why when we come to question the liberals across the way on their environmental
00:07:17.760 plan, I'm always harping on them.
00:07:19.600 Okay, give us a number.
00:07:20.720 And they never do, because it's a truism in ecology that an environmental statement without
00:07:27.980 a number attached to it is utterly useless.
00:07:32.060 And you'll notice that the liberals and NDP never, ever provide any evidence for what they're
00:07:37.440 claiming.
00:07:38.380 Well, yes, I agree.
00:07:40.240 Even when you contrast both approaches, we're showing our plan to have concrete results where
00:07:49.340 you will see results.
00:07:50.200 Stop dumping raw sewage in our lakes and rivers, right?
00:07:53.580 In my area, it's the Lake Simcoe Cleanup Fund.
00:07:55.640 That was a conservative approach that had federal dollars being implemented locally by a local
00:08:01.380 group of citizens.
00:08:03.280 So it was actually showing results.
00:08:04.940 Now, the liberals canceled that and didn't replace it with anything, but those are measures
00:08:10.520 that we have previously and we will bring back and show people that, yes, you can actually
00:08:17.660 have results without imposing a massive carbon tax with prices cascading throughout the marketplace.
00:08:23.320 For sure.
00:08:24.500 And again, one of the things that people also forget, and quite frankly, I'm a little skeptical
00:08:30.380 when we talk about balancing the economy and the environment.
00:08:34.180 And I know that's going to sound strange to the listeners here, but here's the reason
00:08:37.740 for it.
00:08:39.620 The data are really, really clear that the richer a society is, the better its environment.
00:08:47.400 Because wealthy societies, in fact, the measure is called the Environmental Benefit Index.
00:08:52.520 The Environmental Benefit Index goes up with per capita income.
00:08:56.500 So how can we as a country, for example, afford to, quote unquote, lock up all these beautiful
00:09:02.720 forests in national parks?
00:09:05.600 We can do it because we don't need to cut those trees down.
00:09:09.120 How do we, how do we, how is it that we don't have to farm every single hectare in this country
00:09:14.900 and eliminate wildlife from our southern areas?
00:09:18.980 It's because we don't have to farm every single hectare.
00:09:22.060 So technologically advanced wealthy societies are, have clearly better environmental outcomes.
00:09:29.140 And which party is the best to deliver on economic growth, economic development, and
00:09:34.100 technology?
00:09:35.160 The Conservative Party, and the record is clear.
00:09:37.620 Well, I think that's a good point that you raised, talking about technology.
00:09:41.640 Whereas when left-leaning governments, they pick winners and losers, and usually their
00:09:45.640 friends, the well-lawyered and lobbied, get the preferential treatment.
00:09:48.700 And usually government uses policy and regulations to stamp down or defeat the competition or
00:09:55.800 newcomers into the marketplace.
00:09:58.060 But whereas what we're doing, we're actually encouraging new startups, companies to take
00:10:05.880 the next level by ensuring that the marketplace is solid for them.
00:10:10.420 Low taxes, reasonable regulation, and red tape allowing them to do what they do best, which
00:10:14.840 is develop the next piece of technology that will help us clean our environment.
00:10:19.960 Jamie, you're absolutely right.
00:10:22.040 And again, we're the political party in the government.
00:10:25.340 Our philosophy is about incentives.
00:10:28.140 And the incentives aren't necessarily financial incentives, you know, direct payments, for
00:10:32.240 example.
00:10:33.180 So in the green, in our plan to protect the environment, we had the green home renovation
00:10:39.460 tax credit.
00:10:40.580 And you recall that the Harper government a number of years ago had the home renovation
00:10:45.040 tax credit.
00:10:46.260 That was, it was so wildly successful, it ran out of money long before we anticipated this.
00:10:51.760 So this kind of green tax credit to make your home more energy efficient, for example, I'm
00:10:57.860 convinced will be wildly popular.
00:11:00.300 I think so too.
00:11:00.800 Yeah.
00:11:01.160 And people, so people want to put in ground source heat pumps, solar panels, more efficient
00:11:05.860 windows, more efficient furnaces, and so on and so on.
00:11:08.480 They will have the ability, let's say they spend $10,000, they'll be getting $2,000 back
00:11:15.560 in a credit.
00:11:16.980 So that kind of incentivizing and sound environmental behavior, without the direct use of taxpayers'
00:11:23.920 money, having people put sweat equity into making it happen, that is the way to achieve
00:11:29.720 real environmental progress.
00:11:30.400 But it's also about freedom too.
00:11:32.120 Whereas the Liberal plan usually applied a big government program that bureaucrats look
00:11:36.320 it over and may decide whether or not you get a government grant in return.
00:11:40.000 And if you don't, you still have to go out, even though you paid into the system.
00:11:42.820 But this actually allows people the freedom to do what they want without having to ask
00:11:47.920 the state whether or not they can actually renovate their homes and put it in windows.
00:11:51.600 Yeah, I mean, the left, the Liberal left, pardon me, they're in love with regulations because
00:11:59.320 they think government knows best.
00:12:02.200 And they spend more and more money.
00:12:04.680 In our case, we actually can spend less money and incentivize the behavior to create environmental
00:12:10.300 improvement.
00:12:10.980 So you're absolutely correct.
00:12:12.240 Yeah, I think when people look at how the plan is laid out, if they really, I know it's
00:12:20.640 a fairly large document, but as you said, it's comprehensive for a reason.
00:12:24.480 Right.
00:12:24.780 Because I think Canadians were looking for that.
00:12:26.980 They were looking for that solid plan.
00:12:28.760 That's right.
00:12:29.100 The amount of research that went into this, the amount of consultation that went into this
00:12:34.320 document was extensive.
00:12:36.300 It's unprecedented.
00:12:38.280 Everything in here is meticulously referenced.
00:12:41.120 And I'm talking from real scientific journals, universities, and all of that.
00:12:47.800 And so there are, so this plan is scientifically sound, which makes it a real plan.
00:12:55.180 Now let's talk about how we ensure that we encourage others around the globe to start investing
00:13:04.060 in Canadian technology or bringing their ideas here to further develop and maybe patent.
00:13:09.580 Well, that's a really important question.
00:13:13.320 And I'm going to take a little bit of a different twist on it.
00:13:16.620 Remember how we talked about how when a society gets richer, environmental improvement starts
00:13:21.260 to ensue?
00:13:21.840 Well, that breaking point is about $5,000 per year per capita.
00:13:26.000 And you look at countries like China and Vietnam or India, where pollution levels are extremely
00:13:32.520 high.
00:13:33.000 There is going to be a demand by those citizens, whether they're in dictatorships or not, because
00:13:39.380 when people are basically falling dead in the streets because of air quality issues, the
00:13:44.720 demand for Canadian technology to clean up the environment, I think, will be unlimited.
00:13:50.300 And again, the technology that I'm talking about is not only dealing with carbon emissions,
00:13:57.840 but I'm talking about noxious pollutants like sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide.
00:14:02.760 Let me give you a perfect example.
00:14:04.680 The Moroni government back in 89 required, and again, there is a place for regulations.
00:14:09.920 I'm not going to say that there's not.
00:14:12.160 They required every single pulp and paper company to put in a wastewater treatment plant.
00:14:17.680 That bill was passed in 1989, and people had until 1995 to do it.
00:14:22.380 I managed one of those wastewater plants when I was environmental director at a paper mill.
00:14:27.600 So what was once toxic effluent coming out of all of our paper mills, and some of us are
00:14:32.280 old enough to remember the smells and the foam in the water and all that kind of stuff.
00:14:38.040 Now, every pulp and paper facility puts out effluent you can actually drink.
00:14:43.960 So that's a measure of environmental progress.
00:14:46.400 So Canada has all of these technologies right now in place that I think the rest of the
00:14:52.860 world will be demanding before too long.
00:14:54.920 So we're well positioned.
00:14:55.820 Absolutely.
00:14:56.320 I think by using those market forces, you can actually, in a better way than some governments
00:15:03.420 can, you can actually use those market forces to force the bad actors to up their game.
00:15:09.200 Yeah, for sure.
00:15:10.420 And again, one of the things about environmental regulations that we all have to be cognizant
00:15:15.680 of is that there is a role for the public sector because environmental resources are publicly
00:15:21.560 owned.
00:15:22.200 Like nobody owns the air, nobody owns the water.
00:15:24.940 So smart regulations, smart incentives, working hand in hand will create environmental outcomes
00:15:31.740 at the lowest possible cost.
00:15:33.980 More carrot, less stick.
00:15:35.000 More carrot, less stick.
00:15:37.360 And if I can make another point, something that always irritates me is that people are
00:15:42.680 always implying that our industrial economy, that they're emitters, they're polluters, they're
00:15:48.880 this or that.
00:15:49.500 Well, as somebody who's worked in the paper industry, the oil and gas industry, I can tell
00:15:54.260 you the environmental measures that they have put in place cost millions and have very, very
00:16:01.160 measurable outcomes.
00:16:05.080 And again, when one looks at the environmental quality in Canada, for example, by every measure,
00:16:09.760 our environmental quality is very high.
00:16:13.060 And when you talk about pipelines, for example, in a previous life, I was involved with pipeline
00:16:17.700 design from the environmental side.
00:16:19.520 This is back in the 1970s, believe it or not, but you know, we would fly the Mackenzie Valley
00:16:23.920 pipeline route, we would helicopter down to these streams, do our scientific surveys
00:16:29.080 of these streams.
00:16:30.040 Even then, the environmental factors that went into pipeline construction were at the top of
00:16:36.680 the list in terms of what needed to be done.
00:16:39.380 So I can absolutely guarantee you that our industries are the cleanest in the world, even
00:16:45.880 now.
00:16:46.940 What's really interesting, and I look at our friends on the left, the liberal left, they
00:16:52.400 think that modern society is the problem when it comes to the environment.
00:16:57.680 We conservatives believe modern society is the answer.
00:17:01.420 Hear, hear.
00:17:02.100 Bob Sopak, Member of Parliament for Dauphin, Swan River, Nipawa.
00:17:05.740 And I'm so honoured to say I served with you.
00:17:09.360 I know you're not running again in the upcoming election, but it's been an absolute pleasure.
00:17:13.080 You're only one term, but I've learned a lot from you.
00:17:16.020 Right.
00:17:16.320 Thanks, Jamie.
00:17:17.040 And again, to serve with you has been an honour as well.
00:17:20.820 And as you go forward into majority government, I think you're going to make an incredible
00:17:27.620 contribution, not only to your constituency, but to your country.
00:17:30.600 You're too kind.
00:17:31.580 Thank you, Bob Sopak.
00:17:32.500 This is the Blueprint Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:17:35.860 I'm your host, Jamie Schmael.
00:17:37.720 And remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom.
00:17:40.560 That's the blueprint.
00:17:43.080 Thank you for listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:17:49.180 To find more episodes, interviews, and in-depth discussions of politics in Canada, search for
00:17:53.920 The Blueprint on iTunes or visit podcast.conservative.ca.
00:17:57.800 The Blueprint on iTunes or delivery.
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