The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - October 11, 2023


Are Mask Mandates Coming Back？


Episode Stats

Length

17 minutes

Words per Minute

172.99445

Word Count

3,106

Sentence Count

183

Misogynist Sentences

2


Summary

On today's show, we talk about the government's ongoing efforts to regulate natural health products, including supplements and supplements, as well as mask mandates, lockdowns, and much, much more. We're joined by Conservative Health Critic, Stephen Ellis, MP for Halliburton-Gorthalikes-Brock, to discuss all of it.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to the Blueprints, Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your host,
00:00:14.220 Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton-Gorthalikes Brock, with new content
00:00:17.740 for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. On today's show, we're going to talk about
00:00:23.100 natural health products and the government's ongoing efforts to regulate them even more.
00:00:27.440 Also, mask mandates, maybe? Lockdowns? Well, the media is sure talking about that.
00:00:32.420 This and much, much more. Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe and share this program. Tell
00:00:36.780 your friends they can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play and Spotify. You
00:00:41.160 name it, it is out there. All right, let's bring on the guest of the show, the man of the hour,
00:00:45.540 Dr. Stephen Ellis, Member of Parliament, Cumberland Colchester, also the health critic. Thanks for
00:00:49.380 being on. My pleasure, Jamie. Always great to be here. We have a new Speaker of the House,
00:00:53.100 just recently announced. Greg Fergus, Member of Parliament for Hall Elmer. He is going to be
00:00:58.980 taking Anthony Rota's position after he had to step down and resign due to his...
00:01:06.300 Technical difficulties. Technical difficulties. I think we've all heard the story. We'll see how
00:01:10.460 Greg works out this, I guess, until the next election. Could be 2025, could be sooner, hopefully
00:01:16.220 sooner. Well, you never know unless he makes a similar mistake to Mr. Rota. So maybe he'll
00:01:22.300 suffer the same fate. Well, let's hope we're all done that horrible, horrible mistake. All right,
00:01:29.140 natural health products. We talked about that a few weeks ago on the show. We wanted to go a bit
00:01:32.600 deeper into it because it continues to percolate below the surface here. So the Liberals are once
00:01:38.820 again, and this seems to come up every time the Liberals are in power. I remember this back in,
00:01:43.300 I believe 2004, 2005, this same issue arising. And it's to do with natural health products. Why
00:01:51.460 does the government want to take this path? And tell us a bit about it. Maybe you can do better
00:01:55.780 background than I get on this. You know, the big thing, of course, is that natural health products
00:02:00.640 are medications like probiotics and prebiotics, vitamins, minerals, those types of things.
00:02:05.960 It also encompasses traditional medicines, such as traditional Chinese medicines. So when you look at
00:02:12.340 those as a group, what differentiates them from prescription medications really related to the
00:02:18.480 fact, of course, that they don't have a patent on those medications. They're not patentable, which,
00:02:24.100 of course, then limits the amount of profit that a company could make. The other thing that really
00:02:29.060 sets them apart is they are incredibly popular with over 70% of Canadians. And that is the big
00:02:37.620 difference. Now, you asked the question, why do they want to regulate them? Well, mostly because
00:02:43.220 they can. But what we've heard back, and I'm sure you experienced the same thing, is more emails,
00:02:49.780 letters, and phone calls related to this particular subject than probably anything else combined
00:02:57.100 since I've been here over the last two years. And that also is a pattern that happened when
00:03:02.980 when they attempted to regulate them before. We know very clearly that at that point in time,
00:03:07.540 as the story goes, there were wheelbarrows full of mail, and they canceled the plan at that time.
00:03:15.960 You know, one of the things that we've looked at very, very closely is, is this a sector in need
00:03:22.260 of regulation? And very clearly, in the House of Commons two weeks ago, the new Minister of Health,
00:03:28.860 Mark Holland suggested that 700 people have been harmed by natural health products. And in his
00:03:35.180 words, some of them have been hospitalized. Now, just for a comparison sake, in seniors alone,
00:03:41.820 using prescription medications, not just harmed, but hospitalized every year, 50,000 seniors are
00:03:48.860 hospitalized due to prescription medications. Now, that doesn't mean that they're particularly dangerous,
00:03:54.300 or they don't work, etc. That's just a comparison to numbers. And I think it's important that
00:03:58.540 people understand the actual scope of any perceived difficulties. We did have Health Canada
00:04:05.420 bureaucrats at Health Committee last week, and asked them very specifically for that reference.
00:04:11.660 It's some bizarre Government of Canada website that is almost unfathomably complicated to try and figure
00:04:19.980 out... A government website conflict? Come on. Come on. Nobody believes you. I know.
00:04:24.620 But where the number 700 came up with, we asked them to provide that reference at committee,
00:04:29.660 and they have yet to do so. So it becomes very, almost nefarious to understand what they're trying
00:04:36.940 to do here. Because we know that the framework that exists in Canada, when we look at other countries,
00:04:43.500 it's the envy of other countries. So they want to emulate what we already have.
00:04:47.100 So, in a nutshell, it really is, you know, another tax on Canadians. As we might say in our conservative
00:04:56.700 circles, if you tax the farmer that grows the food, and the trucker who delivers the food,
00:05:01.820 then guess what? The consumer who buys the food is going to pay more. It's the same thing. If you tax
00:05:06.620 the producer of natural health products, the distributor of natural health products, obviously consumers are
00:05:11.740 going to have to pay more. Absolutely. And we mentioned this in the last show too,
00:05:16.460 about kind of these nameless faces, unelected bureaucrats, making policy that also has the
00:05:24.220 weight of law to it, right? Where we don't have the opportunity, potentially in this case, of voting
00:05:30.220 on this in the House of Commons. But the bureaucrats can implement this and have that weight behind it.
00:05:36.220 And that is something, I think, that has gone just a bit too far. It's kind of been growing in steps
00:05:42.060 over the decades, and here we are. Well, especially when, you know, when we look at this, and for small
00:05:48.060 and medium-sized businesses, that the cost is really quite exorbitant. We reached out to several folks in
00:05:55.020 the industry to say, and again, not just representatives of the industry, but actually people in the industry.
00:06:02.300 And they believe that it's going to cost them, as small businesses, tens of thousands of dollars.
00:06:07.340 And we all know that we're in an incredible cost of living crisis. It's something that
00:06:12.060 you and I, and anybody who is in government these days, hears about every single day. Any elected
00:06:19.420 official hears it. So when we're increasing prices for Canadians at a time that is already the highest
00:06:26.220 cost in many people's lives, it becomes even more difficult. So again, that reach, that creation
00:06:32.780 of more taxes by bureaucrats, as you said, is something that is really, it becomes very difficult
00:06:39.260 to fight. But again, we must do that. That's our job, because Canadians have reached out to us and
00:06:44.780 complained that this is an unjust tax on their ability to decide how to treat themselves. And that's
00:06:51.900 an important thing, that freedom of choice to say that, you know, I want to do this. Now, listen,
00:06:58.300 we totally understand that if things are unsafe, they can't be on the Canadian market.
00:07:03.660 The other question that the bureaucrats couldn't answer though, is will these regulations apply
00:07:09.820 to international products as well? And again, they really don't have an answer for that and
00:07:15.660 or they refuse to answer it. Well, the answer should be yes, if they're going to implement this,
00:07:19.420 because it should be a level playing field. At least it should be. Well, you know what, what we did see
00:07:23.660 today, there was some bizarre suggestion by, again, by a government website that there's a,
00:07:32.940 some sort of a pledge, that's what they called it, that international companies could sign on if they
00:07:38.860 so desired. But again, they're forcing Canadian businesses to follow, to pay more really in a cost
00:07:46.380 recovery program, to follow their tax advice, to pay more, which will be passed on to consumers.
00:07:53.180 The estimate, this is the strange thing that came up at committee, the estimate to run this new
00:07:59.020 program is about a hundred million dollars. They already collect almost two and a half billion dollars
00:08:05.100 in taxes from natural health products, which as you know, prescription medications are not taxed.
00:08:11.500 So consumers are already paying tax on these products and now they're actually asking producers
00:08:17.340 and distributors to pay more to run another government program. Talk about largesse and waste.
00:08:23.340 Is there a sector of this economy the government doesn't seem to want more control over? We have
00:08:28.220 two pieces of legislation controlling what we see and hear and access on the internet. We have controls
00:08:34.620 with more taxes and your freedom of movement, that kind of thing. Now they're coming after a sector of
00:08:40.300 the economy that has, I think, provided safe options for Canadians and something they might not want to
00:08:48.700 do through the usual prescription through your doctor process. Right. And, you know, we're not here to
00:08:55.020 say that these are replacement for prescriptions. No, no, no. But what they are is an opportunity for
00:09:00.140 Canadians to have the freedom to choose of what they believe makes them feel healthy and be healthy
00:09:06.460 and act in a healthy manner, which is really what we want. In a time where it's almost impossible to
00:09:12.620 see a health care provider, we want Canadians to be very responsible for their own health. And that
00:09:18.220 choice, of course, is being limited because small and probably a fifth of Canadian small and medium-sized
00:09:24.540 business in this sector. So 20% may go out of business because of these new taxes. And also,
00:09:31.260 we know that the cost for consumers is going up, which again is going to reduce choice.
00:09:35.980 Well, here's two things that cannot exist in the universe. Big government and big freedom. They are
00:09:41.900 not compatible at all. So the people who love big government love big business because you only need
00:09:46.940 about five or six of them. Look at our telecom and just read a deal with. Rather than all these pesky
00:09:51.500 mom and pop shops, using these regulations, as you just pointed out, these new taxes, you can almost
00:09:58.540 eviscerate a lot of the small business, leaving only the big ones that have the capacity to absorb
00:10:04.940 either the increase in costs or the ability to navigate all these new regulations. They are the
00:10:10.700 ones that will be successful. It's absolutely true. I challenged some of the people in this sector
00:10:17.900 to be able to figure out exactly how much it might cost them to continue to stay in business.
00:10:22.860 And when you look at the government tables, no one is absolutely able to sit down and say,
00:10:28.220 wow, how do you make sense out of this? So one of the things that we asked the bureaucrats was to
00:10:33.900 present their budget and give us line by line exactly how are you going to spend $100 million?
00:10:39.740 Because last year, I think in committee, they did inspections on 30 some odd facilities.
00:10:48.860 Is that going to cost $100 million to do 30 inspections? Boy, that's a very expensive inspection.
00:10:56.060 No kidding. All right, let's move on to something that has been kind of going in and out of the media
00:11:00.940 in the last few weeks. I've noticed it a few months ago, one or two articles, I kind of shrugged it off,
00:11:06.780 and then I'm seeing it more and more common places and more and more of my social media feeds,
00:11:12.220 and that is the potential of mask mandates coming back and health professionals,
00:11:19.260 Health Canada and others, potentially urging Canadians to mask up whether voluntary or by mandate.
00:11:27.980 You're a doctor, you went through the pandemic just like the rest of us. What are your thoughts
00:11:32.620 on this? Is it true? Is the media priming the pump to get ready for this or is it all just media trying
00:11:38.140 to generate clicks and likes and shares? Well, you know, it becomes very difficult, although I think
00:11:43.340 when you look at some Health Canada officials, Dr. Tam and all her other group of individuals making
00:11:50.540 announcements, oddly enough they were sitting six feet apart and wearing masks. Perhaps they were all unwell,
00:11:57.660 because the current advice would suggest that if you're unwell, stay home, wash your hands until you
00:12:03.740 feel better. And I think that's something that, you know, as we might say, that's motherhood and apple
00:12:10.140 pie statements that we know, if you're unwell, stay home. I would suggest to you that for people who are
00:12:16.060 frail or have, you know, significant illnesses, that there may be some place for masking.
00:12:21.420 The studies that were done were not of high quality. It becomes very difficult to understand,
00:12:28.380 you know, who's wearing a mask correctly, which mask were they wearing, you know, all of those things.
00:12:34.780 I would suggest that the literature out there is still very, very unclear on that aspect of it,
00:12:41.340 what is beneficial and what isn't. And certainly, you know, those of us in the Conservative Party
00:12:47.820 need to be clear that people need to make their own choices with common sense to say, if you're sick,
00:12:54.220 stay home, wash your hands, cough into your sleeve, use a tissue. All of those are really good things
00:13:01.100 that I think are important. I think it would be very, very difficult for Canadians to go back to the stage
00:13:07.020 that governments were being very directive and saying, you must do this, you must do that.
00:13:13.420 We know very clearly that there were from lockdowns to mandates, etc. that many people spoke out very
00:13:22.460 clearly that there were also harms that were done based on those things. And those are things that,
00:13:27.740 again, Canada would be the only G7 country which has not had a pandemic inquiry as of yet to understand
00:13:34.300 if those things that were done were beneficial or not to Canadians and to the country as a whole. So I
00:13:40.380 think that those things are very, very important to understand. And if there's unanswered questions,
00:13:46.620 then we need to press for answers for those things.
00:13:49.260 I think there was some interest in what is going to happen this fall, this winter regarding mass
00:13:55.420 mandates and lockdowns. It even made it into the campaign in Manitoba, the provincial elections,
00:14:01.260 where both parties, the leading parties, came out and said there would be no lockdowns. And they both
00:14:07.660 made that commitment. So obviously everyone was asking that question in Manitoba and the political
00:14:14.220 parties in the run for leadership of that province decided, let's make it clear our stance.
00:14:21.580 You know, I think that's very, very important that governments give clear leadership and direction
00:14:26.540 to its citizens, because all of these things can generate significant concern and worry and anxiety.
00:14:32.620 You know, whether you're a business who says, you know, I'd like to expand because things are going
00:14:37.020 well, but will I have the financial capability to make bigger facilities or hire more people?
00:14:43.340 I think all of that uncertainty creates problems. People worry, you know, should I be thinking about
00:14:47.820 traveling or do I need to cancel my plans? You know, I'm an elderly person and am I going to be able to
00:14:53.580 see my family? You know, I have a chronic illness. What's the direction for me?
00:14:59.020 So coming out with that clear direction is beneficial for people to be able to make plans
00:15:04.300 for the future. And that's one of those things that's very essential for many to say, what's my
00:15:09.100 ability to plan for the future? And if governments aren't giving that, then people will fill it with
00:15:13.740 their own narrative, which is not always the right thing. No, it isn't. I do agree with you that it would be
00:15:18.940 harder, I think, if provincial or federal governments here in Canada decided to implement some kind of a
00:15:25.260 lockdown, a restriction on movement. I can't see the majority of the population agreeing to it as
00:15:32.300 they did a few years ago. I'm with you, Jamie. The people that I speak to are incredibly happy,
00:15:38.460 of course, that the pandemic is over and we're moving forward. And, you know, one of the things
00:15:44.140 that I've said before is that Canadians and Canada as a country needs to learn how to live
00:15:50.380 with COVID-19. You know, we all know that it's not going away. But, you know, if it's a virus out
00:15:56.780 there that we know is going to happen, that's not going to cause you to be hospitalized or get gravely
00:16:02.460 ill, then those are things that we can deal with in an appropriate fashion. So continuing to move
00:16:09.420 forward in that sense, we need it. We know that many businesses, of course, have not recovered from
00:16:15.180 the pandemic, as it were. And that creates significant problems moving forward. And everybody's
00:16:21.340 feeling that cost of inflation. Absolutely. And kids, don't forget children, not missing school,
00:16:25.820 the whole bit, learning through an iPad. It was tough on everyone. We're pretty much out of time
00:16:29.980 because we have to get a question period. As you know, final thoughts go to the guest. The floor is
00:16:34.540 yours. Well, you're very kind. You know, continuing on with the blueprint, one of the things that always
00:16:39.180 worries me is will this podcast have to now be registered? Yes. We see ongoing infringements on our
00:16:45.740 freedoms as Canadians, whether it's looking at the news online and now understanding that podcasts
00:16:51.260 will need to be registered. Canadians really need to realize that their freedoms are at stake. And
00:16:56.300 those things that, because we're nice and Canadian, we often take for granted and believe that they
00:17:01.740 will not be infringed upon. If we're not paying attention, things will happen that do not want
00:17:07.340 to happen. And as you all know, that's our job as the opposition to oppose things that the government
00:17:12.620 is trying to impose. And I know that you, as well as myself, will continue to do that on behalf of
00:17:18.620 Canadians. It's like a lobster boiling in a pot, right? You just turn it on slowly. You never know
00:17:23.420 what's coming at you. And that's what's happening, piece by piece. Dr. Stephen Ellis, thank you very
00:17:27.660 much for your time. We appreciate your time. We appreciate yours as well. Please like, comment,
00:17:31.500 subscribe and share this program. Great messaging here you're probably not getting in the mainstream
00:17:35.580 media. And of course, you can download other platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play and Spotify.
00:17:39.980 New content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30pm Eastern Time. Until next week,
00:17:43.900 remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's The Blueprint.