The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - Are Mask Mandates Coming Back？

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to the Blueprints, Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your host,

00:00:14.220 Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton-Gorthalikes Brock, with new content

00:00:17.740 for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. On today's show, we're going to talk about

00:00:23.100 natural health products and the government's ongoing efforts to regulate them even more.

00:00:27.440 Also, mask mandates, maybe? Lockdowns? Well, the media is sure talking about that.

00:00:32.420 This and much, much more. Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe and share this program. Tell

00:00:36.780 your friends they can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play and Spotify. You

00:00:41.160 name it, it is out there. All right, let's bring on the guest of the show, the man of the hour,

00:00:45.540 Dr. Stephen Ellis, Member of Parliament, Cumberland Colchester, also the health critic. Thanks for

00:00:49.380 being on. My pleasure, Jamie. Always great to be here. We have a new Speaker of the House,

00:00:53.100 just recently announced. Greg Fergus, Member of Parliament for Hall Elmer. He is going to be

00:00:58.980 taking Anthony Rota's position after he had to step down and resign due to his...

00:01:06.300 Technical difficulties. Technical difficulties. I think we've all heard the story. We'll see how

00:01:10.460 Greg works out this, I guess, until the next election. Could be 2025, could be sooner, hopefully

00:01:16.220 sooner. Well, you never know unless he makes a similar mistake to Mr. Rota. So maybe he'll

00:01:22.300 suffer the same fate. Well, let's hope we're all done that horrible, horrible mistake. All right,

00:01:29.140 natural health products. We talked about that a few weeks ago on the show. We wanted to go a bit

00:01:32.600 deeper into it because it continues to percolate below the surface here. So the Liberals are once

00:01:38.820 again, and this seems to come up every time the Liberals are in power. I remember this back in,

00:01:43.300 I believe 2004, 2005, this same issue arising. And it's to do with natural health products. Why

00:01:51.460 does the government want to take this path? And tell us a bit about it. Maybe you can do better

00:01:55.780 background than I get on this. You know, the big thing, of course, is that natural health products

00:02:00.640 are medications like probiotics and prebiotics, vitamins, minerals, those types of things.

00:02:05.960 It also encompasses traditional medicines, such as traditional Chinese medicines. So when you look at

00:02:12.340 those as a group, what differentiates them from prescription medications really related to the

00:02:18.480 fact, of course, that they don't have a patent on those medications. They're not patentable, which,

00:02:24.100 of course, then limits the amount of profit that a company could make. The other thing that really

00:02:29.060 sets them apart is they are incredibly popular with over 70% of Canadians. And that is the big

00:02:37.620 difference. Now, you asked the question, why do they want to regulate them? Well, mostly because

00:02:43.220 they can. But what we've heard back, and I'm sure you experienced the same thing, is more emails,

00:02:49.780 letters, and phone calls related to this particular subject than probably anything else combined

00:02:57.100 since I've been here over the last two years. And that also is a pattern that happened when

00:03:02.980 when they attempted to regulate them before. We know very clearly that at that point in time,

00:03:07.540 as the story goes, there were wheelbarrows full of mail, and they canceled the plan at that time.

00:03:15.960 You know, one of the things that we've looked at very, very closely is, is this a sector in need

00:03:22.260 of regulation? And very clearly, in the House of Commons two weeks ago, the new Minister of Health,

00:03:28.860 Mark Holland suggested that 700 people have been harmed by natural health products. And in his

00:03:35.180 words, some of them have been hospitalized. Now, just for a comparison sake, in seniors alone,

00:03:41.820 using prescription medications, not just harmed, but hospitalized every year, 50,000 seniors are

00:03:48.860 hospitalized due to prescription medications. Now, that doesn't mean that they're particularly dangerous,

00:03:54.300 or they don't work, etc. That's just a comparison to numbers. And I think it's important that

00:03:58.540 people understand the actual scope of any perceived difficulties. We did have Health Canada

00:04:05.420 bureaucrats at Health Committee last week, and asked them very specifically for that reference.

00:04:11.660 It's some bizarre Government of Canada website that is almost unfathomably complicated to try and figure

00:04:19.980 out... A government website conflict? Come on. Come on. Nobody believes you. I know.

00:04:24.620 But where the number 700 came up with, we asked them to provide that reference at committee,

00:04:29.660 and they have yet to do so. So it becomes very, almost nefarious to understand what they're trying

00:04:36.940 to do here. Because we know that the framework that exists in Canada, when we look at other countries,

00:04:43.500 it's the envy of other countries. So they want to emulate what we already have.

00:04:47.100 So, in a nutshell, it really is, you know, another tax on Canadians. As we might say in our conservative

00:04:56.700 circles, if you tax the farmer that grows the food, and the trucker who delivers the food,

00:05:01.820 then guess what? The consumer who buys the food is going to pay more. It's the same thing. If you tax

00:05:06.620 the producer of natural health products, the distributor of natural health products, obviously consumers are

00:05:11.740 going to have to pay more. Absolutely. And we mentioned this in the last show too,

00:05:16.460 about kind of these nameless faces, unelected bureaucrats, making policy that also has the

00:05:24.220 weight of law to it, right? Where we don't have the opportunity, potentially in this case, of voting

00:05:30.220 on this in the House of Commons. But the bureaucrats can implement this and have that weight behind it. 1.00

00:05:36.220 And that is something, I think, that has gone just a bit too far. It's kind of been growing in steps

00:05:42.060 over the decades, and here we are. Well, especially when, you know, when we look at this, and for small

00:05:48.060 and medium-sized businesses, that the cost is really quite exorbitant. We reached out to several folks in

00:05:55.020 the industry to say, and again, not just representatives of the industry, but actually people in the industry.

00:06:02.300 And they believe that it's going to cost them, as small businesses, tens of thousands of dollars.

00:06:07.340 And we all know that we're in an incredible cost of living crisis. It's something that

00:06:12.060 you and I, and anybody who is in government these days, hears about every single day. Any elected

00:06:19.420 official hears it. So when we're increasing prices for Canadians at a time that is already the highest

00:06:26.220 cost in many people's lives, it becomes even more difficult. So again, that reach, that creation

00:06:32.780 of more taxes by bureaucrats, as you said, is something that is really, it becomes very difficult

00:06:39.260 to fight. But again, we must do that. That's our job, because Canadians have reached out to us and

00:06:44.780 complained that this is an unjust tax on their ability to decide how to treat themselves. And that's

00:06:51.900 an important thing, that freedom of choice to say that, you know, I want to do this. Now, listen,

00:06:58.300 we totally understand that if things are unsafe, they can't be on the Canadian market.

00:07:03.660 The other question that the bureaucrats couldn't answer though, is will these regulations apply

00:07:09.820 to international products as well? And again, they really don't have an answer for that and

00:07:15.660 or they refuse to answer it. Well, the answer should be yes, if they're going to implement this,

00:07:19.420 because it should be a level playing field. At least it should be. Well, you know what, what we did see

00:07:23.660 today, there was some bizarre suggestion by, again, by a government website that there's a,

00:07:32.940 some sort of a pledge, that's what they called it, that international companies could sign on if they

00:07:38.860 so desired. But again, they're forcing Canadian businesses to follow, to pay more really in a cost

00:07:46.380 recovery program, to follow their tax advice, to pay more, which will be passed on to consumers.

00:07:53.180 The estimate, this is the strange thing that came up at committee, the estimate to run this new

00:07:59.020 program is about a hundred million dollars. They already collect almost two and a half billion dollars

00:08:05.100 in taxes from natural health products, which as you know, prescription medications are not taxed.

00:08:11.500 So consumers are already paying tax on these products and now they're actually asking producers

00:08:17.340 and distributors to pay more to run another government program. Talk about largesse and waste. 1.00

00:08:23.340 Is there a sector of this economy the government doesn't seem to want more control over? We have

00:08:28.220 two pieces of legislation controlling what we see and hear and access on the internet. We have controls

00:08:34.620 with more taxes and your freedom of movement, that kind of thing. Now they're coming after a sector of

00:08:40.300 the economy that has, I think, provided safe options for Canadians and something they might not want to

00:08:48.700 do through the usual prescription through your doctor process. Right. And, you know, we're not here to

00:08:55.020 say that these are replacement for prescriptions. No, no, no. But what they are is an opportunity for

00:09:00.140 Canadians to have the freedom to choose of what they believe makes them feel healthy and be healthy

00:09:06.460 and act in a healthy manner, which is really what we want. In a time where it's almost impossible to

00:09:12.620 see a health care provider, we want Canadians to be very responsible for their own health. And that

00:09:18.220 choice, of course, is being limited because small and probably a fifth of Canadian small and medium-sized

00:09:24.540 business in this sector. So 20% may go out of business because of these new taxes. And also,

00:09:31.260 we know that the cost for consumers is going up, which again is going to reduce choice.

00:09:35.980 Well, here's two things that cannot exist in the universe. Big government and big freedom. They are

00:09:41.900 not compatible at all. So the people who love big government love big business because you only need

00:09:46.940 about five or six of them. Look at our telecom and just read a deal with. Rather than all these pesky

00:09:51.500 mom and pop shops, using these regulations, as you just pointed out, these new taxes, you can almost

00:09:58.540 eviscerate a lot of the small business, leaving only the big ones that have the capacity to absorb

00:10:04.940 either the increase in costs or the ability to navigate all these new regulations. They are the

00:10:10.700 ones that will be successful. It's absolutely true. I challenged some of the people in this sector

00:10:17.900 to be able to figure out exactly how much it might cost them to continue to stay in business.

00:10:22.860 And when you look at the government tables, no one is absolutely able to sit down and say,

00:10:28.220 wow, how do you make sense out of this? So one of the things that we asked the bureaucrats was to

00:10:33.900 present their budget and give us line by line exactly how are you going to spend $100 million?

00:10:39.740 Because last year, I think in committee, they did inspections on 30 some odd facilities.

00:10:48.860 Is that going to cost $100 million to do 30 inspections? Boy, that's a very expensive inspection.

00:10:56.060 No kidding. All right, let's move on to something that has been kind of going in and out of the media

00:11:00.940 in the last few weeks. I've noticed it a few months ago, one or two articles, I kind of shrugged it off,

00:11:06.780 and then I'm seeing it more and more common places and more and more of my social media feeds,

00:11:12.220 and that is the potential of mask mandates coming back and health professionals,

00:11:19.260 Health Canada and others, potentially urging Canadians to mask up whether voluntary or by mandate.

00:11:27.980 You're a doctor, you went through the pandemic just like the rest of us. What are your thoughts

00:11:32.620 on this? Is it true? Is the media priming the pump to get ready for this or is it all just media trying

00:11:38.140 to generate clicks and likes and shares? Well, you know, it becomes very difficult, although I think

00:11:43.340 when you look at some Health Canada officials, Dr. Tam and all her other group of individuals making

00:11:50.540 announcements, oddly enough they were sitting six feet apart and wearing masks. Perhaps they were all unwell,

00:11:57.660 because the current advice would suggest that if you're unwell, stay home, wash your hands until you

00:12:03.740 feel better. And I think that's something that, you know, as we might say, that's motherhood and apple

00:12:10.140 pie statements that we know, if you're unwell, stay home. I would suggest to you that for people who are

00:12:16.060 frail or have, you know, significant illnesses, that there may be some place for masking.

00:12:21.420 The studies that were done were not of high quality. It becomes very difficult to understand,

00:12:28.380 you know, who's wearing a mask correctly, which mask were they wearing, you know, all of those things.

00:12:34.780 I would suggest that the literature out there is still very, very unclear on that aspect of it,

00:12:41.340 what is beneficial and what isn't. And certainly, you know, those of us in the Conservative Party

00:12:47.820 need to be clear that people need to make their own choices with common sense to say, if you're sick,

00:12:54.220 stay home, wash your hands, cough into your sleeve, use a tissue. All of those are really good things

00:13:01.100 that I think are important. I think it would be very, very difficult for Canadians to go back to the stage

00:13:07.020 that governments were being very directive and saying, you must do this, you must do that.

00:13:13.420 We know very clearly that there were from lockdowns to mandates, etc. that many people spoke out very

00:13:22.460 clearly that there were also harms that were done based on those things. And those are things that,

00:13:27.740 again, Canada would be the only G7 country which has not had a pandemic inquiry as of yet to understand

00:13:34.300 if those things that were done were beneficial or not to Canadians and to the country as a whole. So I

00:13:40.380 think that those things are very, very important to understand. And if there's unanswered questions,

00:13:46.620 then we need to press for answers for those things.

00:13:49.260 I think there was some interest in what is going to happen this fall, this winter regarding mass

00:13:55.420 mandates and lockdowns. It even made it into the campaign in Manitoba, the provincial elections,

00:14:01.260 where both parties, the leading parties, came out and said there would be no lockdowns. And they both

00:14:07.660 made that commitment. So obviously everyone was asking that question in Manitoba and the political

00:14:14.220 parties in the run for leadership of that province decided, let's make it clear our stance.

00:14:21.580 You know, I think that's very, very important that governments give clear leadership and direction

00:14:26.540 to its citizens, because all of these things can generate significant concern and worry and anxiety.

00:14:32.620 You know, whether you're a business who says, you know, I'd like to expand because things are going

00:14:37.020 well, but will I have the financial capability to make bigger facilities or hire more people?

00:14:43.340 I think all of that uncertainty creates problems. People worry, you know, should I be thinking about

00:14:47.820 traveling or do I need to cancel my plans? You know, I'm an elderly person and am I going to be able to

00:14:53.580 see my family? You know, I have a chronic illness. What's the direction for me?

00:14:59.020 So coming out with that clear direction is beneficial for people to be able to make plans

00:15:04.300 for the future. And that's one of those things that's very essential for many to say, what's my

00:15:09.100 ability to plan for the future? And if governments aren't giving that, then people will fill it with

00:15:13.740 their own narrative, which is not always the right thing. No, it isn't. I do agree with you that it would be

00:15:18.940 harder, I think, if provincial or federal governments here in Canada decided to implement some kind of a

00:15:25.260 lockdown, a restriction on movement. I can't see the majority of the population agreeing to it as

00:15:32.300 they did a few years ago. I'm with you, Jamie. The people that I speak to are incredibly happy,

00:15:38.460 of course, that the pandemic is over and we're moving forward. And, you know, one of the things

00:15:44.140 that I've said before is that Canadians and Canada as a country needs to learn how to live

00:15:50.380 with COVID-19. You know, we all know that it's not going away. But, you know, if it's a virus out

00:15:56.780 there that we know is going to happen, that's not going to cause you to be hospitalized or get gravely

00:16:02.460 ill, then those are things that we can deal with in an appropriate fashion. So continuing to move

00:16:09.420 forward in that sense, we need it. We know that many businesses, of course, have not recovered from

00:16:15.180 the pandemic, as it were. And that creates significant problems moving forward. And everybody's

00:16:21.340 feeling that cost of inflation. Absolutely. And kids, don't forget children, not missing school,

00:16:25.820 the whole bit, learning through an iPad. It was tough on everyone. We're pretty much out of time

00:16:29.980 because we have to get a question period. As you know, final thoughts go to the guest. The floor is

00:16:34.540 yours. Well, you're very kind. You know, continuing on with the blueprint, one of the things that always

00:16:39.180 worries me is will this podcast have to now be registered? Yes. We see ongoing infringements on our

00:16:45.740 freedoms as Canadians, whether it's looking at the news online and now understanding that podcasts

00:16:51.260 will need to be registered. Canadians really need to realize that their freedoms are at stake. And

00:16:56.300 those things that, because we're nice and Canadian, we often take for granted and believe that they

00:17:01.740 will not be infringed upon. If we're not paying attention, things will happen that do not want

00:17:07.340 to happen. And as you all know, that's our job as the opposition to oppose things that the government

00:17:12.620 is trying to impose. And I know that you, as well as myself, will continue to do that on behalf of

00:17:18.620 Canadians. It's like a lobster boiling in a pot, right? You just turn it on slowly. You never know

00:17:23.420 what's coming at you. And that's what's happening, piece by piece. Dr. Stephen Ellis, thank you very

00:17:27.660 much for your time. We appreciate your time. We appreciate yours as well. Please like, comment,

00:17:31.500 subscribe and share this program. Great messaging here you're probably not getting in the mainstream

00:17:35.580 media. And of course, you can download other platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play and Spotify.

00:17:39.980 New content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30pm Eastern Time. Until next week,

00:17:43.900 remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's The Blueprint.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - October 11, 2023

Are Mask Mandates Coming Back？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript