Blueprint： Law & Order
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Summary
In this episode, the dynamic duo of Glenn Motts and Larry Brock join us to discuss the issue of Bill C-21 and the red flag laws that have been proposed by the Liberals and the NDP, and the pushback they have received.
Transcript
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Hello and welcome once again to the Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
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host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, Kawartha Lakes, Brock, with new
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content for you. As always, every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time, we ask that you like,
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comment, subscribe, and share this program. There are two ears that need to hear this message. You
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can help us do that. We have a great show lined up for you. And don't forget, you can download this
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content and listen to it at your convenience on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play,
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and Spotify. The dynamic duo are back. We have the two gentlemen that always get great reviews
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and great requests to come back on because we're talking about a very difficult subject right now,
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something I think is really affecting people. So we have Glenn Motts, of course, Medicine Hat,
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Cartston Warner, and we have Larry Brock, Brantford Brant. Thanks for coming back, gentlemen.
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All right. Excellent. Again, we keep talking about renaming the show. We may have to do this.
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All right. Let's start over with, let's start off with the firearms issue. It's before Parliament,
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as we speak, actually. We'll see 21 is being talked about. I was just watching the debate before coming
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over here to the studio. And what is going on with that? That's a piece of firearms legislation. It's
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Well, right at the moment, it's being debated at report stage in the House. It has been rammed
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through at committee stage by a programming motion by the Liberals. They restricted debate,
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restricted any sort of conversation or amendments to any of the government amendments and stuff
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that were there. Five minutes per party. That's all we got to talk about each individual amendment.
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Legislation this important, this critical to millions of Canadians and so deeply flawed requires full
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democratic debate. And the Liberals just proved it again. A, they're out of touch with a flawed,
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misguided bill and thwarting democracy when it comes to the whole idea of a limiting debate. And
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they're limiting debate not only at committee. We sat, we had two midnight sittings. And then now at
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the report stage and third reading, again, limiting debate as to get it rushed off to the Senate.
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So I guess the most contentious issue was the, the complete, I guess, I don't even know how to
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describe it, just complete focus on hunting rifles for the most part. They took that away. Thanks,
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thanks for all the pressure that was caught. But they did it in a sneaky fashion now. It's still
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pretty much there. Exactly. So what happened is Bill C-21 was debated in the House as a handgun freeze
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and a few other things. Then in November, they introduced a bunch of new amendments, including
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what the government called G-4 and G-46. And it provided a definition, a new definition for a
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prohibited weapon that included shotguns and hunting rifles and the majority of them. And then a bunch of
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other definitions as well. Pushback by Canadians. Thank you for those that are watching for your
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pushback on that to the government. The government acquiesced and withdrew those amendments in early
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February. We sat on Bill C-21 for probably almost two months until finally they came back with a new
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definition of a prohibited weapon and other things again. But, you know, groups that came to the
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committee said, listen, this bill is not going to improve public safety. The red flag laws that the
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liberals and the NDP pushed through, we had Pauly Suvian and 20 other women's groups that said,
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please don't pass red flag laws, which has a victim ex parte go to a judge and ask for, you know,
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some remediation, firearm seizures, whatever it might be, let the police do their job. That's what
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they're asking liberals to do. Oh, no. Liberals and the NDP gathered together to vote in support of that,
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which is really, really bizarre. But anyway, that's where we're at. Again, this is a misguided
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approach. It isn't going to improve public safety. Legal, law-abiding Canadians who own firearms are
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not and have never been the problem with gun crime in this country. It's criminals who acquire firearms
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illegally. The majority of crime guns in this country are smuggled in from the U.S. That's where the focus
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should be, should focus on, you know, stopping the revolving door of justice, dealing with criminals and not
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legal firearm owners and, you know, giving some resources to plug those holes.
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If I could, if I could weigh in, just a moment on the red flag laws. I commend all the work that my
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colleague, Mr. Moss, has done on this committee and those of our colleagues for really pushing this
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issue and making some changes. But unfortunately, this bill is still flawed in so many significant
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areas. That's to Glenn's point about public safety. I look at it from a legal lens. Everything that I do in
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this house, I have that legal lens. And what they're doing is they're actually exacerbating and creating
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to more of a backlog in our criminal justice system from coast to coast to coast. Already we are
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suffering from the impacts of COVID in terms of scheduling trials. We, as you know, we've got a
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Supreme Court of Canada decision named Jordan that mandates that trials be completed within so many
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months, so many years, depending on the jurisdiction. Now we're going to have the floodgates open up with
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all of these applications from legitimate and probably illegitimate complainants who just want to
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exact a measure of revenge. It is going to just really tap our very limited resources in the justice
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system already. Let the police do their job. Section 117 of the criminal code gives the police the powers
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to enter a home, to remove a weapon, and to hold someone accountable for a period of time if there is
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sufficient evidence to establish that this person is a harm to themselves or to others. The government did
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not need to exacerbate that issue. It's frustrating, I think, to many law-abiding firearms owners that this
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is going on, to having to watch this, but also to watch all the issues going on around our country.
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And this is where the liberals decided to put their focus, right? We have drug use that's out of control,
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inflation's through the roof. We have a housing crisis. We have crime that is up 32 percent, I saw,
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and continues to go up. We have problems with our bail system. And the liberals say, you know how we're
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going to fix this or take the focus off all of our failures? We are going to go after law-abiding
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firearms owners. Like, how frustrating is that? And just smoke and mirrors. Like you said, you're not
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going to solve the gang shootings. That's not going to stop. You're not going to stop the repeat violent
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offenders. That's not going to stop. Criminals are already going to follow up.
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Does it go deeper? Well, I guess it doesn't go deeper than that, right? Like, that's what I think
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many people are wondering. Well, when will this government admit to Canadians that the lawful gun
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owners are not the issue? They have never been the issue. They are not responsible for the 32 percent
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uptick in violent crime across this country. This government needs to wake up and finally enforce
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and secure our borders and to work with officials across the border to the United States to deal with
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the illegal smuggling system that is so ingrained within that society. They're basically outsmarting
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law enforcement. They're outsmarting politicians. That's where the illegal guns are flowing from.
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Our ports. Another example is containers not being properly thoroughly searched. We've got drugs pouring
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in across our borders, across our oceans, and now weapons. That's where the attention of this
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government should be. That's where we differ. That's where a PolyEv-led conservative government
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will put the resources where it's required. And one other one, in addition to that, Larry,
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and thank you for that, is holding criminals accountable. When criminals get caught and get
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charged with offenses, you know, the chances of them getting out on bail now, for whatever the offense is,
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is incredibly high. And, you know, Canadians call it the revolving door of justice. Conservatives call it
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the revolving door of justice, because that's exactly what it is right now. Back in my day and
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in Larry's day as a prosecutor and as a policeman, we used to have called reverse onus. Yep. And so,
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if a person that had committed a criminal offense was out already on some sort of judicial interim
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release and they committed another offense, the onus is on them to show why they should be released.
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Not anymore. You know, that is changing. That has changed. And Larry sits on the committee that we're just
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discussing. Yeah. And this, this might be a segue to discuss the very next topic. Bill C-46. This is why
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you two are the dynamic duo. Okay. I already know where the conversation's going. What do you need me
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for? Don't answer that. I don't even want to answer that. Keep going. Canadians need to know. This is
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hot off the press. Yes. We had a technical briefing that broke down for technical reasons. We had,
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we had a translation issue. But they delivered the draft of the bill to members beforehand. I took a
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look at it. And to use a phrase that I know my colleague has used, they have essentially put a
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band-aid, a very tiny band-aid on a gushing wound, or to use the words of my, of my colleague, Mr. Moss,
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putting lipstick on a pig. All right. They're using appropriate language, but the net effect is going to be
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essentially the same status quo that still exists. They've added some reverse onus provisions in the
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criminal code. We already have reverse onus provisions in the criminal code. And quite frankly,
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all of the topical stories that we have heard of individuals running amok, creating violence within
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our cities, killing people, maiming people, injuring people, are already those individuals who are facing
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reverse onus bail hearings. So adding more reverse onus provisions in the code does not address the
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underlying issue. And the underlying issue is because of our Supreme Court of Canada releasing two
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significant decisions, starting with Antic, then Zora, and the government introducing Bill 75. It has
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created a principle of restraint that it does not matter what your criminal record is like. It doesn't
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matter what your age is. It doesn't matter what the circumstances of the offense is. The default position
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for any justice, meaning a justice of the peace or a provincial court judge or a superior court judge, is this
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person needs to be released, regardless of whether it's a crown onus offense or reverse onus offense. That's in the
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mindset of a judge. Well, I think I heard it this week, actually, just a moment ago, as reiterated in the House,
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that, I believe it was Vancouver, 40 individuals, a very small percentage, were creating the vast
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majority of calls and issues for police. 6,000. That's right. 40 individuals created 6,000 offenses.
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Committed 6,000 offenses in one year. That should tell you all you need to know. Yes.
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Those people that don't want the help of the various organizations that are there to rehabilitate,
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don't, don't want to participate in society. Right. And those 40 individuals will not be impacted at all. That's right.
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By this new Bill C-46. Oh, they won't. Will not be impacted. That's the problem. Because those individuals were still
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facing reverse onus. Nothing has changed. We need to see, in terms of real bail reform, we need to see a more emphasis on
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community and victim safety. Right. That's where we need. And this bill basically indicates that a judge
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must consider the community impact, the victim impact, over a crime. Well, they do that anyways.
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Part of their whole analysis, when they're hearing evidence and hearing submissions, whether or not a
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person should be released, are those very same factors. Codifying it in the criminal code will do
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absolutely nothing to increase community confidence and safety in our justice system.
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The press conference is just going on. I was kind of watching it as I was making my way over here,
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catching bits and pieces. And it is frightening that it took this long for the government to even
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take action. And Larry just kind of outlined all the flawed bills, C-75, that started this ball rolling.
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But the fact that the amount of people that we, as opposition, brought to the House of Commons in
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our speeches, in our statements, saying that people are being victimized in our community,
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we're having people worried about being a victim of crime, and noticing that things are not right
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anymore. And it took them years to actually move even a little bit.
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Well, the part that's troubling is not only this bill on bail reform or C-21, or there's many other
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bills. This government has demonstrated repeatedly, and this is another example, of just how out of
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touch they really are. No consultation, no understanding that if we introduce this, C-75 for
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example, it has the potential to have this impact. Like, there's just no forethought that goes into it.
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And then, as you said, Jamie, Canadians, victims groups, law enforcement, premiers, you know,
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justice officials have said, and average Canadian said, like this, for example, the bail system is so
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broken, and it's been broken now since C-75 was introduced. And what's that, four years ago? Three
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years ago? And nothing. Like, even to introduce it. This was brought to them at that point in time,
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and said, this is broken, this is going to cause problems, please, don't, you know, we need amendments
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to your bill. They refused to listen. So Glenn mentions examples where the government does not
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listen to important stakeholders. In this particular case, they actually were bombarded with information
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from stakeholders, and still got it so massively wrong, and completely out of touch. And that is what
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so frustrating for me as a former member of the criminal justice system in terms of prosecution.
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This is going to be extremely disappointing to police agencies across this country, definitely
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disappointing to the premiers who really pushed hard to move this government to introduce this type
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of legislation. And quite frankly, they just ignored really solid concrete suggestions from members of
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parliament and other stakeholders who really were projecting how this government could move on
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important legislation to make a difference. They failed us. Did they ever. Let's quickly talk about
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our friend and colleague Michael Chong, if we could. It kind of ties into this whole government incompetence
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and the endless just failures that we just keep in front of us. It turns out through evidence that the
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the government pretty much knew about this, really did nothing about it, knew that Michael Chong's family
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was being targeted back home in Hong Kong, didn't warn Michael Chong about it because of a vote he made on
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the floor of the House of Commons. To this public safety and how we segue into it, right? Like,
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Canadians in general aren't feeling safe. We have members of parliament that are being threatened for
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votes they make on the House of Commons, and yet this government turns a blind eye. Why? Because it might have
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benefited them in the election. Yeah. This is your belly. I might have teed that up just too good for you.
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No, but you sat on the committee. You've done these. I have. I've sat on proc. I've sat on ethics.
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We are doing a deep dive with respect to the Trudeau Foundation and their role in terms of accepting
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monies for influence and gaining access to the Prime Minister. I think what is most disturbing is the
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is the level and the government accuses and to this day, today as a matter of fact, accuses the
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Conservatives of deliberately misleading or misinforming the House and misinforming the public and using it for
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partisan gains, for fundraising, completely, you know, missing the the whole objective of what the legislation is all about.
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They have done the same thing regarding this particular issue. I think it has to be concerning to every Canadian
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that our government, whose number one role, regardless of fiscal responsibility, its number one role and mandate is to
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keep us safe and sovereign. And when you hear what this government has done in terms of turning a blind eye and
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allowing these police states, these police run illegal operations in Canada and allowing diplomats from the
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Chinese communist regime to be running amok in our society and bragging as to how they've influenced
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elections. And all of this information acquired by CSIS, Canada's number one spy agency, whose number one
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mandate is to run it up to the chain of command, right up to the Prime Minister, which they did,
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and he did nothing, is appalling and disgusting. And that's why we need to have this government removed
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sooner than later, so that we can restore safety and confidence and protection to all Canadians.
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Willful blindness on behalf of this Prime Minister and Liberal government
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is for their own gain is, to me, is grounds that the Canadian public should say we've had enough.
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Well, his Chief of Staff, Katie Telford, confirmed that the Prime Minister reads everything.
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It's hard not to laugh at that. But yeah, so according to Katie Telford, yes, he's got his grip on everything.
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Uh, so, where do we go from here? What are the next steps? I know C21, there's going to be a vote at some point.
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There'll be a debate on the new bail reform legislation, or lack thereof, coming up very shortly.
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Yes, so, uh, debate on, um, report stage and third reading of C21 is today, tomorrow.
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There'll be some votes tomorrow on it, and then on Thursday is the final vote.
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And from there it'll be sent to the Senate. Um, I'm hopeful that the Senate will gut this bill
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completely like we try to do at committee. Send it back, say, hey, this is flawed.
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Start over again would be ideal. I'm not sure what they're going to do.
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At least I hope they give it an honest effort like we tried in committee.
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Yeah, it is, uh, I just, I just watching every failure.
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Like last night we had the housing minutes. I'm going to go off on a topic just a little here,
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because I've been dying to talk about this. The housing minister, I don't know if you
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watched the take note debate last night with the housing minister. It was a take note debate.
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It gives us a chance to quickly rapid fire questions, right? And, and the, the, our leader,
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Pierre Polyev asked very simple questions. What's the average price of a home in Canada?
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What's the average rent? What's the average mortgage payment? Housing minister had no clue,
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no clue on his file on something that every Canadian is dealing with right now.
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We have people can't get into the housing market. And this housing minister had no
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clue what the average price was. Wow. It is, it is absolutely incredible. And, and, and, and,
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and I know I'm getting those letters and phone calls and emails. I'm sure you are too, both of you.
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There's a lot of people hurting and this government does not seem to care. They don't care.
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I think that's the theme of what we're talking about today. On everything. They don't care.
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But hey, we got a new passport. Oh, don't, let's not start that one.
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I have a nice constant reminder of a young Justin Trudeau frolicking in a lake.
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And a squirrel eating a nut. That's meaningful to me as a Canadian.
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Yeah, I figured there was. Yeah, absolutely. I didn't think it literally.
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There's, that is literally a great description of how lost this government really is.
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Yep. They have lost their way. They've lost the ability to govern. In fact, they never really
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had it, but they've lost their way big time. And we need to, we need to do, the Canadians need to
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realize that, you know, the reason we are in bad shape is we are economically, you know,
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people losing hope, losing their homes, can't get into homes, can't afford to live, can't afford
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groceries, are not safe in our communities, have, have many other issues that we're dealing with as a
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country. This, this government, where is it? This prime minister in this government, where is
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these issues? And the only way to solve this problem is to next election. Dr. Beggs.
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Well, here's another issue that hasn't been talked about. I'm probably going way long on the show
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here. Yes, I am. Chrystia Freeland, the finance minister, where has she been? She hasn't been in
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the House, I think, two days and two months, I think. Two days and two months.
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She's around the country, around the world, interviewing for a new job. She won't even go
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up here before committing for two hours to talk about her budget. Not at all. Billion spent,
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and doesn't give the time of day. Four hundred and ninety some billion dollar budget, and she
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But she's only giving, she's only giving one hour. One hour. Not two. Not two. Not two. We don't want to
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overburden her. No. She's super busy, you know. She's got things to do. She does.
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Yes. Final comments, gentlemen. Oh, where do we start? We've touched on so many major issues. I think,
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I think the theme that at least I was presenting and what my colleague was presenting as well is just
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how broken this particular government is. They've, they're well beyond the best before date. Every
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government has a shelf life. This shelf life is long and done. We need a new government led by Pierre
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Pauliev. We have a wonderful caucus. We're going to gain new caucus members in the new election. We are
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ready to restore Canada to its prominence, keep Canadians safe, keep us prosperous, keep roofs over
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our head, food on our table, and all the things that this government should have been doing for a
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number of years and has just failed us. And for me, thank you, Larry. I think we talked a lot today
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about what's broken and there's a lot to be talked about, but also there is hope. The reason that we
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fight the fight that we do, you fight our, our, our, our conservative colleagues fight this fight is
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there's hope. And we're not going to give up the fight for this country that we love, for the people
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that we're here to serve. And, you know, a Pauliev led conservative government does bring hope to a
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country that is broken, to a government that's broken. And I'm excited to stick around to make that happen.
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Absolutely. And we want to see that happen. Absolutely. I know. When I first met you,
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you had hair. So this is what Justin Trudeau is doing.
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We appreciate your time, gentlemen, with Len Watts, Medicine at Carston Warner, Larry Brock,
00:24:03.660
the one and only from Brantford Brant, the dynamic duo. Always appreciate having these two on the show.
00:24:08.380
It's a great conversation. We appreciate your time as well. Please like, comment, subscribe,
00:24:12.540
and share this program. 1.30 PM Eastern time is when we have new content for you every single Tuesday.
00:24:18.620
And don't forget, you can listen to it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play,
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and Spotify. Until next week, remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom. That is the blueprint.