The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - Canada is No Longer Competitive

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm

00:00:09.280 your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps with the likes of Brock

00:00:12.360 with new content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30pm Eastern Time, even content throughout

00:00:17.600 the summer. Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe and share this program. Tell your

00:00:21.820 friends to download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play and Spotify. On today's

00:00:26.760 show, we are bringing back Ryan Williams, a Member of Parliament for the Bay of Quinty,

00:00:30.980 also the Shadow Minister for Competition, Mr. Competition himself, to continue part two

00:00:36.880 of our series. We had part one last week where we talked about overall competitiveness in

00:00:42.680 Canada and how it's on the decline and has been for quite some time but accelerated under

00:00:47.360 this government. We talked about the telecommunications industry and how we are one of the worst countries

00:00:53.500 for cell phone rates and internet rates. We've still got the airlines. We've still got banking.

00:00:59.760 We've still got the grocery sector. It never ends. It never ends. It never ends. But we've

00:01:04.180 done this to ourselves. That's right. That's right. Well, this, like I said last podcast,

00:01:09.100 you know, this is a problem that's been built up over the last hundred years and we've really

00:01:14.860 created it to ourselves. We've regulated these industries. We've ensured that they're protected.

00:01:20.040 You know, we talk about banks. They are really just branches of the government. They are fully

00:01:26.440 regulated. They are backed up by the banks or by the governments. And at the end of the day,

00:01:31.860 Canadians are really paying the highest rates in the world for what we think is the only system 0.61

00:01:36.680 that's there. But when we look at what's available when competition comes in, all these other countries

00:01:41.860 in the world have figured out how to create competition, which brings prices lower and gives

00:01:45.960 better service, something that is surely lacking in almost every industry in Canada.

00:01:50.180 Even when these big corporations are challenged, you can, you, you see their strategy, right? It's

00:01:55.660 to put fear into other people like, oh my goodness, this, this is going to be awful if we open this

00:02:00.600 up to competition. Like, well, how will you ever figure it out? Right? You people out there.

00:02:04.920 But we talked about before with more competition comes better price, better service,

00:02:11.060 and the list goes on. Everything gets better. That's right. And I think I talked about last

00:02:14.920 time too. It's, it's some of our deepest core trouble. There are issues in Canada as well.

00:02:20.060 Productivity is down because of lack of labor. Some of that is also because we, we are not pushing

00:02:26.860 these other, these other industries and ensuring that we have more skilled labor and positions that

00:02:33.620 innovation brings. Some of it is going to be our, our, our wealth inequality problem. That way,

00:02:38.780 the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. You know, when we have big

00:02:42.240 conglomerative companies or big, big monopolies in Canada, that, that stops that innovation,

00:02:49.500 the small SMEs, the small competitors from developing, scaling and growing, which provides

00:02:54.660 good paychecks and good jobs. The last thing is innovation in R&D itself. It's been proven

00:02:59.620 time and again, that if companies are too big, that they're not innovating, they don't have

00:03:04.340 to compete. So if they're not spending the money in R&D and part of that productivity problem

00:03:08.140 is companies investing in themselves and capital, and they're not going to do that as far as,

00:03:13.080 as long as they don't have the competition that makes them have to innovate and drive capital

00:03:18.200 in their own businesses. Absolutely. The, that, that, that continuous growth and, and using what,

00:03:26.420 how we got here in the first place, right? Through competition. Everything happened to what we have

00:03:30.420 now because companies were pushing each other. Innovators were pushing each other. It's new

00:03:34.520 businesses. We're pushing the big ones, right? It was a, it was a, a system that seemed to work

00:03:38.880 and got us to where we are. And now it seems that, uh, the government has got its tentacles

00:03:43.540 into a lot of things. That's right. So let's, uh, cut one. We're going to go on to, uh, the airline

00:03:49.140 industry. Let's talk about the airline industry, everyone's favorite, uh, industry to, uh, to talk about.

00:03:54.460 That's one of the worst ones for competition. All right, let's get the cue and let's get the clip 0.99

00:03:59.820 and then we'll talk about it. Play cut one. Two airlines in Canada control over 80% of all the

00:04:04.980 business. The largest Air Canada just got ranked dead last in on-time flights and ranking of North

00:04:10.680 America airlines. Six Canadian banks own 87% of all the Canadian mortgages, but with the government

00:04:18.920 approving the merger of the number one bank, RBC, buying the number seven bank, HSBC,

00:04:24.040 it is now six banks controlling 90% of all the mortgages. And that's not a good thing.

00:04:29.700 No, neither are. No. So start with airlines. Yes. Two. And you'll see those watching at home.

00:04:35.100 You see, we created our own monopoly board, Canadians, Canada's monopoly board. And it has,

00:04:39.620 uh, that's right on the money. That's right. Uh, so, you know, you can see that it's boardwalk and

00:04:45.880 park place, just two airlines, 80% of all the airline traffic in Canada. Uh, you know, we have some

00:04:52.820 upstarts up and coming like Porter, Flair, Lynx just went under. Uh, so we look at the airlines

00:04:58.480 themselves and we know this, we, we know either that, uh, the stat that we talked about was Air

00:05:03.320 Canada being the last in on-time performance in all airlines in North America. Uh, you know,

00:05:09.460 WestJet, uh, they, they pride themselves. It was a company owned airline. It was, it was a great

00:05:14.620 airline, but became into this big position. And, and because of that, we're not against these

00:05:18.680 companies or Canadian companies, but when they get to a dominant position, then they display

00:05:23.260 sometimes anti-competitive dominance, uh, behavior. They protect their own. Yes. They protect their

00:05:29.560 share. And we've seen that from Flair, CEO came into committee and talked about how they tried to

00:05:34.640 open a new route and then Swoop, which was part of WestJet came in and undercut them and knocked them

00:05:40.680 out of this route. Very difficult for new entrants into these markets when you have these dominant

00:05:45.700 players. At the same time, prices are up, uh, when we have competition and we saw that between Toronto

00:05:51.060 and Vancouver with Flair and Flair lines, what they call a low discount carrier, ultra low discount

00:05:57.860 carrier. What they did is the, they dropped the rates because of competition so low that you could

00:06:03.480 get a round trip flight with Air Canada from Toronto to Vancouver round trip for 381. Whereas the trip,

00:06:08.720 the round trip from Toronto to Ottawa, which is about 13 times less the distance was about almost twice

00:06:15.040 that price. And that's because Flair is not flying that route. Right. It's only WestJet and Air Canada

00:06:20.960 and Porter's flying some of that as well from Billy Bishop. So, you know, we look at dominance and this

00:06:25.860 is all, all industries, but when it comes to the airlines, it does come down to the dominance at the

00:06:30.840 gates, at the airports. And certainly what we need to see is emergence of some of these smaller carriers

00:06:36.940 like Porter and Flair who can offer more rates. So the job of the government is to ensure that they

00:06:42.480 can do their job in those airports. The competition bureau is doing an airline study right now. So

00:06:47.040 this is something we endorse to have a look at the whole industry. I can get into a side note that

00:06:51.240 the industry minister has decided with new powers under C-56 to start telling the competition bureau,

00:06:57.040 we, you know, we gave them the power to direct the study, say, we need to study this, this industry.

00:07:00.880 But now he's saying, don't look at the domestic, look at the domestic flights. Don't look at the

00:07:05.860 airports. The airports are part of aerospace. And we're saying, no, minister, airports need to be

00:07:10.240 looked at. They're probably one of our, the biggest issues we have with competition. It's not just the

00:07:15.560 airlines themselves, it's the airports. It's something we'll be looking at and studying further as we go

00:07:20.040 along. But to create competition, we need to ensure we have more entrants. We have fair, fair

00:07:24.700 anti-competitive behavior or non-anti-competitive behavior. We have competitive, we promote

00:07:29.740 competition. And then we ensure we give more options to Canadians so they can get good, cheap 1.00

00:07:34.120 flights around Canada. Absolutely. Because it doesn't make any sense paying a higher rate to go

00:07:38.060 to, from Toronto to Europe than Toronto to Vancouver. That makes no sense whatsoever.

00:07:43.100 No. And then if you compare it to the U.S., the flights from New York to Seattle are way cheaper

00:07:48.740 than Toronto to Vancouver. So, you know, that, that, there's a combination of things, airport fees,

00:07:53.340 the airports themselves, lack of competition, lack of entrance. In the U.S., they have, you know,

00:07:58.260 several more airlines and they have more people, but we have more people too. Population just hit

00:08:02.880 41 million yesterday. So I think we're, we're doing quite well on the people front. We just need

00:08:07.580 the, the entrants to compete. I agree. All right. Let's cue up cut two. We were talking about a bit

00:08:13.040 about the internet. We're talking about, uh, we have banks too. Yeah. And banks. And you want to talk

00:08:17.820 about banks first? Because we were sure that. Yep. Let's, uh, did you touch on banks? All right. So the big

00:08:22.300 thing with banks is we have, uh, and I mentioned the, the biggest problem is, is this government,

00:08:26.780 the finance minister, Christian Ferrellian approved the number one bank, RBC, buying the number seven

00:08:31.540 bank, HSBC. And what happened with that was that, uh, HSBC wanted to sell. They said we want out of

00:08:39.340 Canada, which is fine. That's legitimate for a company to say that. Well, the problem we had was,

00:08:43.700 was allowing the number one bank, RBC, with the most amount of assets to get bigger by buying the

00:08:49.920 whole book, 800,000 mortgage company customers from HSBC. And the results for that were pretty clear

00:08:55.240 just about a month after the purchase. So the purchase was finalized and approved by the

00:08:59.420 finance minister in December, 2023. The quarter, the first quarter ending March 31st, 2024, just

00:09:05.580 ended about a month or so ago. The, RBC made a billion dollars more in one quarter than did

00:09:11.680 the month before. HSBC only made 300 million on the last quarter of December. The mortgage rates,

00:09:17.820 the five-year variable mortgage rate that was offered from HSBC was almost 1% lower than what

00:09:23.860 is offered now by RBC. And that's even what the quarter point cut. What happens when you

00:09:29.180 eliminate competition, you eliminate choice and it costs Canadians. And this was the real

00:09:33.280 impact that we fought. And Pierre went out against this, uh, and spoke in the media and went out this

00:09:38.480 publicly that we opposed the merger from our HSBC and RBC. The 10% of the mortgage customers in

00:09:46.440 Vancouver were HSBC. 10% of all those customers, 5% in Toronto. So you think about our two hottest

00:09:53.320 mortgage markets where housing, where we have a housing crisis unparalleled, the biggest in this,

00:09:58.140 in the whole history of this country, where you don't, young people can't afford a home.

00:10:02.500 74% of Canadians will never be able to afford a home and they don't feel that they will ever get

00:10:06.720 a house. And yet we took a competitor, at least drove variable mortgage rates down even to,

00:10:13.240 for a point. And you have to think of the millions of Canadians who struggle when they come up to

00:10:17.020 renewal to find a competitive mortgage rate. And 60% of, of fixed mortgage holders are coming up in the

00:10:22.700 next two years to renew their mortgage. The average renewal, the cost per family on those

00:10:27.420 renewals will be $1,600 added month per month. So we think of what that means for competition.

00:10:33.520 And the thing I do talk about as well is the party that probably also, I mean, we were opposition.

00:10:38.940 So we said, we didn't want this. Pierre Poliev said, no, we're against this. The party that should

00:10:43.520 have stopped it was the NDP who talk about every day about greedflation and greedy corporations.

00:10:49.680 And this was a big corporation buying a small corporation. And, you know, when I had Jagmeet

00:10:55.700 Singh in front of committee and I said, you know, not just this merger, Roger Shaw and also with

00:11:01.300 WestJet Sunwing. And he said, and I said, where's your red line? Why couldn't you have dropped the

00:11:05.420 government? You had the power to call an election over this, do whatever you could. He says, well,

00:11:09.860 I ask questions at question period. So, you know, we found out where Jagmeet Singh lies with this.

00:11:14.280 So, you know, we, we say he did, he's sell out, he sold out Canadians, but we also see this

00:11:20.060 government and how these mergers have hurt people. Uh, you know, with banks, it's a big issue.

00:11:25.280 Uh, my solution, it's a pretty simple one, open banking, my private members bill C365 was to ensure

00:11:32.580 the government produced legislation for open banking within six months. They promised in 2018,

00:11:37.500 they bring legislation. It's been six years and with open banking, that's right.

00:11:41.900 Studying it. So they're still studying it. They've only given a pittance to a regulator,

00:11:45.640 FCAC, uh, who last year was supposed to answer 75,000 customer complaints and didn't answer one.

00:11:52.400 So it gives us real, real, real good trust. They're going to be able to do that when they get in,

00:11:57.280 but, but we're going to push for open banking, which allows all these fintechs, there's about a

00:12:01.980 hundred plus of them to offer alternatives to Canadians. They're offering, they're only operating 0.95

00:12:06.900 because of provincial legislation right now, which allows a lot of them like Wealthsimple and Coho,

00:12:11.400 and Borowell to offer their business to Canadians. And what open banking does is very simple.

00:12:17.640 It makes the banks have to give your financial data to a competitor on your consent. So Jamie

00:12:22.480 Smale says, I want to do business with this other bank. I'm done with you, RBC or Scotiabank or CIBC.

00:12:28.260 I want this. The bank will then have to give your banking history to a competitor and they need

00:12:34.040 their banking history to bank you. And then they're going to say, look, this is what I'm going to give

00:12:37.420 you. This is the business. And you know, what's going to happen after that? Innovation, rates will

00:12:41.120 be lowered, transaction fees will be lowered. It's pure competition. It's great jobs in fintech.

00:12:47.100 Banking is one of the easiest solves. We just have to get there, but we know that a conservative

00:12:52.100 government will get it done as soon as we're in. I definitely look forward to that. I'm sure.

00:12:57.100 Well, I know I've heard many stories about people fed up with these, the rates that they're paying or

00:13:01.400 lack of service or not even at their local branch getting the service they once did. So I think

00:13:06.400 anything we can do to kind of push. Well, I'll give you the stat. One third of Canadians are upset

00:13:11.800 with their financial institution. I have hotels. If one third of my customers are upset on my business,

00:13:17.280 I would be out of business. Right. I would not, I would cease to exist. And this is where we allow

00:13:22.620 these major oligopolies to dominate. And they are branches of their, their bureaucracies of the

00:13:29.800 government. They know where you're going to go. That's right. Where are you going to go? Exactly.

00:13:32.860 And they know that. Yeah, they know that. All right, let's queue up cut two. We're going to

00:13:36.400 move into the grocery market here. And of course, with the price of food, ever more topical. So let's

00:13:43.500 play cut two. Five grocery stores, three Canadian, two American, control over 87% of grocery stores

00:13:50.440 in Canada. And it's not just the grocery stores. Those same companies control the food wholesale market,

00:13:55.280 dictating what products go on the supermarket shelf and what prices the stores have to charge.

00:14:01.160 Home internet isn't any better than cell phones with the only alternative, low orbit satellite,

00:14:06.840 fully controlled by another monopoly, the American owned Starlink.

00:14:11.520 So beer is another one. Right. We'll get to that.

00:14:14.100 But we talk about grocery stores. Yes.

00:14:15.840 You know, we used to have a lot of Canadian owned grocery stores. So about nine or 10

00:14:19.760 that had, they had ownership across all of Canada. And there's still some independents

00:14:25.220 like Freesome Brothers in Alberta. There's a few small ones, but the dominance of these

00:14:30.880 grocery stores is insane. They not only have the grocery stores, they have the sub brands.

00:14:37.100 So you'll have Loblaws that has independent under it. It has no frills. You have the Empire

00:14:42.560 Group that has Sobeys. And then there's a bunch that they have underneath them. You have Metro

00:14:47.680 Group, and they own a bunch. But there's illusion of choice. So people think, oh, I'm going to this

00:14:51.880 new grocery store. It's the same store. They get the same truck that delivers the same food to them

00:14:56.060 from the same distribution network, from the same price controls for the manufacturers.

00:15:02.140 Then you have the Americans that have come in. And so you have Costco and you have Walmart, 1.00

00:15:07.300 and they have about 10% each, but it's a small amount. So there's that competition,

00:15:11.160 but they're American competition. But it's growing and it's coming along. You know,

00:15:16.220 the big travesty is you have a group like IGA. Yes. Which is, and this is to me.

00:15:21.860 In every small town it used to be. That's right. And they're owned by Sobeys. Sobeys bought IGA.

00:15:26.740 Sobeys in the last several, well, the last nine years since Trudeau's been in,

00:15:31.240 there have been two mergers. Sobeys bought Longos. Sorry, Metro bought Longos, and Sobeys bought

00:15:38.280 Farm Boy. So we've had more consolidation even since Trudeau's been in, which is a big problem.

00:15:45.040 And then you look at what it takes to actually beat this. And grocery stores are the hardest.

00:15:49.420 It's the hardest industry to beat because they own all the real estate. And grocery is all about 0.70

00:15:54.280 real estate. Not just on the supermarket shelves, but also on the ground. They call it the right

00:15:59.420 lane when you're returning from work or going to work. That's where the grocery store owns the

00:16:03.580 property. So the problem with these grocery stores, it's not only the distribution networks,

00:16:07.520 the wholesale, and then the brands. They also have the real estate, but then they have companies

00:16:12.060 called real estate investment trusts or REITs that own the future land. So their whole job

00:16:16.160 is they will find where a development's going to be going, a future neighborhood, and they

00:16:20.720 will buy property around that. And it gets even worse than that. Then they have what's

00:16:25.080 called restrictive covenants. So they will own a piece of property as a developer, put a

00:16:29.180 grocery store, say a Loblaws as an anchor tenant, and then make a deal that says you can't have

00:16:34.060 another florist, a butcher, a bakery, even they'll say a financial services because we're now offering

00:16:41.140 financial service cards. I'm sure soon it'll be cell phones because now no name has Bell cell phone

00:16:46.280 rates in that same neighborhood. And that is completely anti-competitive, but this is how

00:16:53.720 these players have been dominant. You're not going to be able to then bring a new grocery store in who

00:16:58.480 has to recreate the networks to distribution, the wholesale and the deals. And so this has become

00:17:04.540 a major issue. And what we haven't focused on is one of the biggest problems is the manufacturers.

00:17:09.880 And the manufacturers, not only are they making major, major record profits, the ire of, and I

00:17:16.480 mentioned earlier with Jagmeet Singh, going after these big corporations, but when you look at the

00:17:22.040 actual supermarket side of Loblaws, if Loblaws was going to be non-profit tomorrow, it would save the

00:17:27.440 average Canadian per week $3. That's what they're making. Those margins are at a certain level,

00:17:34.360 but the manufacturers are making a lot of money, but they do something that's even crazier,

00:17:38.520 which is called shrinkflation. They make money and Loblaws will do a deal or other grocery stores

00:17:44.520 and say that we need to have this product at this price. And they say, no problem. And they shrink

00:17:48.460 the product. So you used to have granola bars, there were six bars, now they're five. You used to be able

00:17:52.980 to buy, I think it was 24 slices of Kraft cheese singles in a package. It's 22 now. And you can

00:17:58.480 look at this and it's everything. So that's the way that they've got around it while keeping their

00:18:02.780 profit margins high. And at the end of the day, to beat that, it's going to be a combination of a

00:18:09.060 bunch of things. One in Canada is growing more food. We have an incredible agricultural sector in

00:18:16.800 Canada. And we've obviously considered we're the only ones who support that, ensuring that there is no

00:18:21.640 carbon tax. That would be the first thing to ensure there's more food. And the carbon tax is the first

00:18:27.540 thing that's putting pressure on these farmers and the truckers and the manufacturers to raise food

00:18:33.100 prices. So that's number one. Two is we look and we put more emphasis in food processing, that we can

00:18:38.420 process the food here. The example of where we're not doing it, but China is, is Royal Milk in

00:18:43.860 Kingston. They have a lot of farmers that are, that have goat's milk and they're doing goat's milk to

00:18:48.260 infant formula. You know, we don't produce any infant formula in Canada, except for in Bath,

00:18:53.200 Ontario or by Kingston, where they're doing Royal Milk and they ship it to China. You know, our, our

00:18:58.900 success in the future will be treating our farmers better, axing the carbon tax, ensuring that we are

00:19:04.780 growing more food, we're processing more food, and then we find ways to get that distribution out to

00:19:09.160 Canada. The, the other side is to ensure we, we stand up and find more ways to create competition.

00:19:15.340 Groups like Frison Brothers in Alberta who are locally owned, they have their own butchers,

00:19:21.120 Red Seal butchers in their grocery stores, unheard of, but that's, that's the model we need to see in 1.00

00:19:25.980 the future for grocery. That's how we'll solve the grocery prices little by little. But as someone

00:19:30.960 who's been studying this as a shadow critic, grocery is the hardest. They're all hard. The whole

00:19:35.760 thing's hard, but this is a real tough one. But we have to, we have to do some things on that and we

00:19:39.960 have to, we have to tackle it. And after we deal with all of that, we'll, we'll still have the

00:19:44.800 inter-provincial trade barriers to deal with after that. That's right, which is, and the biggest one

00:19:50.280 I'll say, because it's, you know, Pierre's been a proponent of it, but the Blue Seal program he's

00:19:54.340 proposed is that within 60 days, no matter where you, you came from, no matter what province you came

00:19:59.820 from, you can get a test that says within 60 days you're qualified or non-qualified for a certain

00:20:05.060 position and get that position, not based on where you come from, but how, what credentials you have

00:20:10.580 and how well you can do the job. Fill our labor gaps, our doctors, our nurses, our pharmacists,

00:20:17.020 our paramedics, our teachers, you know, across the board, we need to do that. So yeah, that's,

00:20:21.640 that's next on the docket. It's inter-provincial trade, I look forward to it.

00:20:24.620 Well, one in 10 Canadians, I believe, do not have access to a primary physician,

00:20:28.080 so that's concerning enough. Ryan, we've gone over time, but always love this conversation

00:20:32.280 because under this Liberal government, competition is not getting any better and we need that to

00:20:37.480 improve. As you know, the guests get the last word. I don't know if you want to fill in what

00:20:41.400 we've been talking about now or even talk about your lapel pin because that's a pretty cool little

00:20:45.660 I would love to talk about that one. So this year is the 100th anniversary of the Air Force and we're

00:20:49.480 very proud of our men and women who serve in our military and the history of our, our, our Air Force

00:20:53.920 and Canada. But really important, where I come from has CFP Trenton and CFP Trenton is celebrating

00:20:58.960 its 94th anniversary in August this year. So you think from the inception of the Air Force,

00:21:05.000 Trenton, there's a great story of Senator Fraser who started that, found the land. You see the

00:21:10.580 pictures back 94 years ago and it's all farmland and they created this air base. And right now it's

00:21:15.560 Canada's largest air base. It folds, fulfills air mobility as well as Sartek, but air mobility

00:21:22.600 across the whole world. If we're sending aid to Haiti, it's coming from Trenton. If we're going

00:21:27.480 and giving aid to Ukraine, it's coming from Trenton. Very important. And we have an air show coming

00:21:32.640 up June 29th and 30th in Trenton, Ontario. We haven't had one in about, it's been about 10 years,

00:21:38.440 but I grew up on White's Road, which was at the end of the runway in CFP Trenton. So I remember as a

00:21:43.480 kid having the air show program plastered all over my wall. My favorite jet still is a CF-18 and isn't

00:21:49.320 that incredible 40 years later, we still have the CF-18, but hopefully soon an F-35 and a whole

00:21:54.620 fleet of them to give the capability to our men and women in the military, but very proud of them,

00:21:59.760 very proud of Air Force. And we have 3,500 men and women who work in our air base and it's quite a

00:22:05.900 great piece of our history and part of our region. And pretty cool community too. Yes, it is.

00:22:11.220 All right, Ryan Williams, thanks very much for coming on to finish up that conversation about

00:22:15.420 competition because it is a serious topic. If we want to get better products, better quality,

00:22:19.680 better service in our country. And more freedom. And more freedom. I love how you put it. Ryan

00:22:23.500 Williams, Member of Parliament for Bay of Quinty, also our critic for competition. We thank him for

00:22:28.240 his time. You as well. Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share this program. We'll

00:22:32.000 have new content for you throughout the summer. We do not slow down every single Tuesday, 1.30pm

00:22:37.040 Eastern Time. Until next week, remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's the blueprint.

00:22:45.420 you

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - July 05, 2024

Canada is No Longer Competitive

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