Canada will be short 44,000 doctors by the year 2028.
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Summary
On today's show, we bring on Dr. Stephen Ellis, the Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, in the beautiful province of Nova Scotia, also the Health Critic, to talk about the growing shortage of doctors across the country.
Transcript
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Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprint. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
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host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps at the Lakes Brock with new
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content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. Don't forget to like, comment,
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subscribe and share this program. We'll have new content for you every single Tuesday, even
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throughout the summer. You can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play,
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Spotify, you name it, it is out there. On today's show, we are talking about the doctor shortage that
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has ravaged pretty much every part of this country. It seems to be getting worse, nurses too,
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pretty much any healthcare professional. So to talk about that and much, much more, we bring on
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Dr. Stephen Ellis, the Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, in the beautiful province
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of Nova Scotia, also the health critic. Thanks for coming on. Well, thanks very much for having me,
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Jamie. It's always a pleasure to be here. You know what? It always gets me. You say those lines,
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they roll off your tongue like liquid gold. So it's amazing. Well, you inspire me to do my job and
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I just try to live at the same level as Doc Ellis. So the healthcare shortage, absolutely terrible. I
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don't think there is one part of the country you can go to where things seem fine. It's getting worse.
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The Liberals have brought in new changes to the capital gains, which many doctors relied on a
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corporate structure, if you will, to save for their retirement, etc. Maybe just lay down the picture
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of what we're dealing with, what the government has been doing that has been just pushing physicians
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either out of the trade altogether or out of the country. It's a huge problem, you know, as you
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mentioned, Jamie. I mean, we're talking almost 7 million Canadians right now without access to primary
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care. And, you know, as your viewers out there know very clearly that having a family doctor is
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how you get into the system, so to speak, in Canada. You know, you can't have a test or a referral
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without access to primary care. And that creates huge backlogs in the emergency room. People have no
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choice. They can't access a family doctor or nurse practitioner. And so therefore, they are forced to go
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to the emergency room for, you know, tests, investigations, referrals, etc. You know, with an
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expanded scope of practice for pharmacists, you know, you can get your medications refilled by
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times, although probably not perpetually. But certainly there's some things there that are
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helpful, expanding other practitioners' scope of practice. But when we look at it now to understand
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that there is this already existing huge problem, now what the government has done, as you mentioned,
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many physicians in this country are still working what we call in the business fee for service. So
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you get paid on a per patient basis. And what the government did, it's probably around 25 years ago
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now, is they allowed physicians the ability to incorporate, as you said. And the messaging at the
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time was that was in exchange for the fact that the fees that physicians were being paid were not
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increasing very much because of government austerity at the time. So they said, we'll give you this
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opportunity then to save for your retirement in a different way. Right. So that was, you know, adopted by
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many physicians. And certainly, that continues on to this day, that ability is still there. And in physicians,
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for instance, such as myself, I practiced medicine for 26 years, now I'm here. But all of my savings
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are saved in a corporate vehicle, of course, you might say. And, you know, those will be subjected to
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this capital gains increase, which causes much consternation. You know, for other physicians who have
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retired, they're not going to go back to work. So where does that leave them with this change that
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that they were promised would help them retire? And now the government is increasing the tax on that.
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This is a major tax hike. Of course, as we know, in any government that gets too big, or the spending
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gets too far out of control, they look for other ways to raise revenue, right? Taxing, borrowing,
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printing, combination thereof can debauch the economy or currency at the same time. The government's just
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broke. They're not short of cash, right? So they think of doctors as people who have stuff. And I'm not
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saying they're well paid, but you kind of want them to be well paid, because they do an amazing job,
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and they have to be super smart, and years and decades of training and all that. But at the same
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time, they were, as you mentioned, they were told to do this, and you can save for your time. Because
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otherwise, there really isn't a vehicle available to these physicians. No. You know, I mean, there's a
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whole host of things there that are the problem, right? Is, you know, I would suggest that this
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government is attacking anybody who chooses to be successful. Yes, who has, in their mind, stuff.
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Right. Right. You know, you see it in other small businesses as well. I mean, this country
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is built on the back of small business people who take that risk, often with much of their
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own money. Usually in their businesses, they originally invest more than 50 percent of their
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own income, of their own savings in that business, and then it grows. And so should they be penalized
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because they took that risk, or should they be rewarded? Because oftentimes, they will also
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employ a multitude of staff running, helping to run their business. Then they will have
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other investments. They often, you know, will buy buildings, the building that their business
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is in. So, I don't understand why this NDP liberal coalition wants to punish small business
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owners. It makes no sense to me, because that's how our economy runs. And we want people to take
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risks in an appropriate fashion, of course. And we want them to be successful. And that
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is also, again, them paying their taxes is what allows the economy to continue to run.
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So when we apply this to a healthcare model, you know, the Canadian Medical Association, the
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Ontario Medical Association has been very clear that this will negatively impact doctors wanting
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to stay or even go to medical school. And then, you know, we've heard certainly people have reached
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out to me and said, I'm not staying in this country anymore.
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And it's important to recognize, too, I know we're focusing more on healthcare because the doctor
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shortage is real and getting worse, and this government seems to have no plan to fix it.
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Farmers are being hit with that, small business owners, right? There's risk and reward, right?
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If a farmer decides they want to pick up, you know, a couple hundred thousand more acres
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to do their business and they can, you know, with the price of cattle drops or whatever,
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you do take that risk. But hopefully, the good times are ahead and beef prices or crops,
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whatever it is, gets better and you're able to recoup some of your loss and then plan for
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the future, right? And as you said, it goes beyond the healthcare field. But when you put
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these barriers in place, you push down those that are trying to not only enrich, you know,
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make a better life for themselves, but also we're richer as a community if we have more doctors
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Yeah. And I think that that's really the underlying issue here is to say that we want people,
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as I said, to take a risk and say, hey, my idea is a good idea. I want to help build my community.
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Maybe, as I said, maybe they buy an apartment building to help with the housing crisis that
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we have going on. Should those people be penalized for that? And perhaps, you know, in the case of
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physicians, should you be able to change the rules partway through the game? And I guess I said
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physicians, but realistically affects all small business owners the same way. And one of the messages
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that I also think is incredibly important is they would suggest that the NDP Liberal
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coalition would suggest that it's not many Canadians, and we know that's not true.
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You know, talk, go around your own community and see how many small businesses there are.
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So I think that's incredibly important. And in the changes that they've made, it's on the first
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dollar earned inside a small business. They talk about an exemption, et cetera, et cetera. But
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with the structure that they've done, it's not that. It's the first dollar that you earn,
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and every dollar will be taxed that way. So it's a huge negative for folks who want to,
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as I said, take risk, kind of control their own destiny, and make their own way in this world.
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And those are the people that we need to support in my mind.
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Who want to do things and create things. And in the case of health care providers,
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they want to help look after people and be a good resource. You know, it's interesting when you look at
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some of the other statistics around this, you know, in, by 2028, 2030, the statistics would say,
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we're going to be 44,000 doctors short in this country. You know, when we graduate somewhere
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around 4,000 to 5,000 every year, it's an impossibility to make up that number. So anything
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that we could do to encourage health care providers to stay in this country would be making sense.
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Yes. You know, the other group that I talked to just yesterday, in fact, again,
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were dentists who also have small businesses. And in many communities right now, there are access
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problems with getting a dentist. And they echoed these comments as well to say, you know what,
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if we're going to be penalized for making our own way, many of them will buy another dental practice,
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or in the case of dentists, they often have property holdings as well. Why would we keep doing this?
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Yeah. So they have, you know, significant concerns over this, of how it's going to affect the workforce
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as it applies to dentists as well. So, I mean, we can't be a country without health care.
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Well, they'll have another government program to fix it.
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Yeah. Well, it's kind of shocking because, you know, as we've taken the saying, they are creating
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problems and then they're creating programs to fix the problems that they created, which...
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Never actually fixed the actual problem. It just goes on and on. And they need more money
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and resources to power those programs that they created. It's a very vicious cycle.
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So, you were in committee, let's queue up cut one, you were in committee not long ago,
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facing the health minister. And it's always fun to watch you two go back and forth. Mark Hollins
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is a health minister. I think you had him on the ropes when you were talking about the implementation
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of the capital gains. And did they actually look at the unintended consequences, which is
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fewer doctors in a health care crisis? So let's play cut one.
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Did your government complete an analysis on the tax hikes before implementing the change?
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So, asking those who are making more than $250,000 from capital gains...
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No, no, that's not what I asked you. I said, did you complete an analysis?
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But I don't agree. Look, I'm not here to play your bizarre game.
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This is not a game. I'm here to try to answer questions rooted in reality.
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Minister, if you want to issue a press release with your thoughts, I welcome it.
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If you think the Canadians not having a physician is a game, then you're in the wrong job.
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I think cutting dental care, cutting pharma care, cuts to health care...
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Those are the things that are menacing our health care system, asking for a more equitable tax system.
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Are you really going to just never answer any questions? Is that your plan?
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Mark Holland is a terrible minister. He is the absolute worst.
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And there's a lot of bad ministers in that caucus.
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He always says a lot of words. You know, we often talk about word count.
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But the substance is not there. That's the sad part for Canadians.
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You know, when you look at this, as you mentioned, if you're going to implement a change, you would like to know what the consequence of that change is.
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I think all they were looking at is the reported $7 billion that they were hoping to raise.
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And I think it was a talking point for them, too, right?
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Right. But to peg, you know, physicians as being rich, physicians are paid well, generally speaking.
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But as you said, you know, how do you choose that compensation?
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If you go to school, you become educated, you have a very significant responsibility, then, you know, the question is, is how should you be compensated?
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We only have so many people that can be doctors, right?
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There's only so many people can be doctors, right?
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So it's supply and demand and my, you know, same thing with skilled tradespeople.
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They're getting paid a lot of money because we don't have a lot of them right now.
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As you mentioned, with that creativity and the ability to make something out of, often out of nothing, then, wow, that's amazing.
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And I think people recognize that in our society and say, hey, yeah, I'm willing to pay for that.
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So, you know, I don't hear many people out there saying that doctors are paid too much.
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You know, but that being said, that's their outliers in every profession.
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We've got a graphic here just showing the doctor shortage.
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You know, that's a staggering number when we have a population of about 40 million.
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We have, I don't know if you want to talk about, we're almost out of time, but I don't know if you want to talk about maybe the graphic itself or the Blue Seal program that we're talking about or anything else.
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Yeah, so I think the Blue Seal program is directly related to the graphic.
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You know, if you think about it, that one in four Canadians will not have access to a physician.
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So part of the idea that we have is related to how can we, as a country, understand when people are trained elsewhere and they have experience elsewhere in the world, how can we quickly get them into our Canadian system?
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And that's something that we have announced a long time ago and, you know, right now we continue to work with regulators to say that this has to be a reality when we form government and how exactly, the nuts and bolts of how exactly we're going to do that.
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It's definitely doable and it's something that we can make come to fruition very easily, I think.
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I think the other thing that we need to look at is historically, 30 years ago, I know that's a lifetime for many people, but my class in family medicine was the first class to be required to do two years of training after medical school to be a family physician.
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And that's another challenge that I presented to regulators to say, you know, can we reduce this training time burden, you know, closer to one year than to two?
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We would have significantly more domestically grown family physicians then as well.
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You know, we talk about this fantastic health care system that we have and we do, but if people can't access it, it's not fantastic for them.
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It's one of the things that as Canadians, we're very proud of.
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And so we need a conservative government to make Canadians proud of their health care system once again.
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Dr. Stephen Ellis, Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, also the critic for health.
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Don't forget, all summer long, you can like, comment, subscribe and share this program.
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Until next week, remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom.
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That's the purpose I like to legacy to let you imagine.