The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - August 20, 2024


Canada will be short 44,000 doctors by the year 2028.

Topics
doctor shortage
Hosted by
Jamie Schmal
Mentioned
Jamie Schmael Stephen Wells Mary Holland Doc Ellis Abundance
We have a spending problem. A lack of choice, and a lack of competition, makes for a lack of buying power.

Episode Stats


Length

16 minutes

Words per minute

186.81

Word count

3,048

Sentence count

246

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

On today's show, we bring on Dr. Stephen Ellis, the Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, in the beautiful province of Nova Scotia, also the Health Critic, to talk about the growing shortage of doctors across the country.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprint. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
00:00:09.040 host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps at the Lakes Brock with new
00:00:12.260 content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. Don't forget to like, comment,
00:00:16.560 subscribe and share this program. We'll have new content for you every single Tuesday, even
00:00:21.920 throughout the summer. You can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play,
00:00:25.840 Spotify, you name it, it is out there. On today's show, we are talking about the doctor shortage that
00:00:30.720 has ravaged pretty much every part of this country. It seems to be getting worse, nurses too,
00:00:36.240 pretty much any healthcare professional. So to talk about that and much, much more, we bring on
00:00:40.240 Dr. Stephen Ellis, the Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, in the beautiful province
00:00:44.580 of Nova Scotia, also the health critic. Thanks for coming on. Well, thanks very much for having me,
00:00:48.320 Jamie. It's always a pleasure to be here. You know what? It always gets me. You say those lines,
00:00:52.940 they roll off your tongue like liquid gold. So it's amazing. Well, you inspire me to do my job and
00:00:58.820 I just try to live at the same level as Doc Ellis. So the healthcare shortage, absolutely terrible. I
00:01:06.140 don't think there is one part of the country you can go to where things seem fine. It's getting worse.
00:01:13.340 The Liberals have brought in new changes to the capital gains, which many doctors relied on a
00:01:19.080 corporate structure, if you will, to save for their retirement, etc. Maybe just lay down the picture
00:01:24.740 of what we're dealing with, what the government has been doing that has been just pushing physicians
00:01:29.560 either out of the trade altogether or out of the country. It's a huge problem, you know, as you
00:01:35.340 mentioned, Jamie. I mean, we're talking almost 7 million Canadians right now without access to primary
00:01:40.920 care. And, you know, as your viewers out there know very clearly that having a family doctor is
00:01:48.280 how you get into the system, so to speak, in Canada. You know, you can't have a test or a referral
00:01:53.440 without access to primary care. And that creates huge backlogs in the emergency room. People have no
00:01:59.900 choice. They can't access a family doctor or nurse practitioner. And so therefore, they are forced to go
00:02:05.420 to the emergency room for, you know, tests, investigations, referrals, etc. You know, with an
00:02:12.740 expanded scope of practice for pharmacists, you know, you can get your medications refilled by
00:02:18.140 times, although probably not perpetually. But certainly there's some things there that are
00:02:24.660 helpful, expanding other practitioners' scope of practice. But when we look at it now to understand
00:02:31.620 that there is this already existing huge problem, now what the government has done, as you mentioned,
00:02:38.000 many physicians in this country are still working what we call in the business fee for service. So
00:02:43.820 you get paid on a per patient basis. And what the government did, it's probably around 25 years ago
00:02:51.600 now, is they allowed physicians the ability to incorporate, as you said. And the messaging at the
00:02:58.620 time was that was in exchange for the fact that the fees that physicians were being paid were not
00:03:04.060 increasing very much because of government austerity at the time. So they said, we'll give you this
00:03:10.940 opportunity then to save for your retirement in a different way. Right. So that was, you know, adopted by
00:03:19.460 many physicians. And certainly, that continues on to this day, that ability is still there. And in physicians,
00:03:27.740 for instance, such as myself, I practiced medicine for 26 years, now I'm here. But all of my savings
00:03:34.600 are saved in a corporate vehicle, of course, you might say. And, you know, those will be subjected to
00:03:41.440 this capital gains increase, which causes much consternation. You know, for other physicians who have
00:03:48.620 retired, they're not going to go back to work. So where does that leave them with this change that
00:03:54.580 that they were promised would help them retire? And now the government is increasing the tax on that.
00:04:01.440 This is a major tax hike. Of course, as we know, in any government that gets too big, or the spending
00:04:07.120 gets too far out of control, they look for other ways to raise revenue, right? Taxing, borrowing,
00:04:11.940 printing, combination thereof can debauch the economy or currency at the same time. The government's just
00:04:18.140 broke. They're not short of cash, right? So they think of doctors as people who have stuff. And I'm not
00:04:25.080 saying they're well paid, but you kind of want them to be well paid, because they do an amazing job,
00:04:29.300 and they have to be super smart, and years and decades of training and all that. But at the same
00:04:33.720 time, they were, as you mentioned, they were told to do this, and you can save for your time. Because
00:04:38.760 otherwise, there really isn't a vehicle available to these physicians. No. You know, I mean, there's a
00:04:43.780 whole host of things there that are the problem, right? Is, you know, I would suggest that this
00:04:50.220 government is attacking anybody who chooses to be successful. Yes, who has, in their mind, stuff.
00:04:55.600 Right. Right. You know, you see it in other small businesses as well. I mean, this country
00:05:01.060 is built on the back of small business people who take that risk, often with much of their
00:05:06.660 own money. Usually in their businesses, they originally invest more than 50 percent of their
00:05:12.080 own income, of their own savings in that business, and then it grows. And so should they be penalized
00:05:18.320 because they took that risk, or should they be rewarded? Because oftentimes, they will also
00:05:24.040 employ a multitude of staff running, helping to run their business. Then they will have
00:05:29.460 other investments. They often, you know, will buy buildings, the building that their business
00:05:34.720 is in. So, I don't understand why this NDP liberal coalition wants to punish small business
00:05:43.240 owners. It makes no sense to me, because that's how our economy runs. And we want people to take
00:05:48.720 risks in an appropriate fashion, of course. And we want them to be successful. And that
00:05:55.820 is also, again, them paying their taxes is what allows the economy to continue to run.
00:06:02.500 So when we apply this to a healthcare model, you know, the Canadian Medical Association, the
00:06:07.980 Ontario Medical Association has been very clear that this will negatively impact doctors wanting
00:06:14.580 to stay or even go to medical school. And then, you know, we've heard certainly people have reached
00:06:19.760 out to me and said, I'm not staying in this country anymore.
00:06:22.400 And it's important to recognize, too, I know we're focusing more on healthcare because the doctor
00:06:27.960 shortage is real and getting worse, and this government seems to have no plan to fix it.
00:06:32.620 Farmers are being hit with that, small business owners, right? There's risk and reward, right?
00:06:36.600 If a farmer decides they want to pick up, you know, a couple hundred thousand more acres
00:06:41.000 to do their business and they can, you know, with the price of cattle drops or whatever,
00:06:46.140 you do take that risk. But hopefully, the good times are ahead and beef prices or crops,
00:06:50.920 whatever it is, gets better and you're able to recoup some of your loss and then plan for
00:06:56.260 the future, right? And as you said, it goes beyond the healthcare field. But when you put
00:07:03.320 these barriers in place, you push down those that are trying to not only enrich, you know,
00:07:11.760 make a better life for themselves, but also we're richer as a community if we have more doctors
00:07:16.380 and more farmers, right? It's more businesses.
00:07:19.680 Yeah. And I think that that's really the underlying issue here is to say that we want people,
00:07:26.060 as I said, to take a risk and say, hey, my idea is a good idea. I want to help build my community.
00:07:31.620 Maybe, as I said, maybe they buy an apartment building to help with the housing crisis that
00:07:37.920 we have going on. Should those people be penalized for that? And perhaps, you know, in the case of
00:07:44.740 physicians, should you be able to change the rules partway through the game? And I guess I said
00:07:50.800 physicians, but realistically affects all small business owners the same way. And one of the messages
00:07:56.120 that I also think is incredibly important is they would suggest that the NDP Liberal
00:08:01.520 coalition would suggest that it's not many Canadians, and we know that's not true.
00:08:05.980 You know, talk, go around your own community and see how many small businesses there are.
00:08:10.120 So I think that's incredibly important. And in the changes that they've made, it's on the first
00:08:15.000 dollar earned inside a small business. They talk about an exemption, et cetera, et cetera. But
00:08:20.200 with the structure that they've done, it's not that. It's the first dollar that you earn,
00:08:24.700 and every dollar will be taxed that way. So it's a huge negative for folks who want to,
00:08:32.340 as I said, take risk, kind of control their own destiny, and make their own way in this world.
00:08:37.120 And those are the people that we need to support in my mind.
00:08:40.560 Exactly. Absolutely.
00:08:41.640 Who want to do things and create things. And in the case of health care providers,
00:08:47.220 they want to help look after people and be a good resource. You know, it's interesting when you look at
00:08:53.080 some of the other statistics around this, you know, in, by 2028, 2030, the statistics would say,
00:09:01.760 we're going to be 44,000 doctors short in this country. You know, when we graduate somewhere
00:09:09.700 around 4,000 to 5,000 every year, it's an impossibility to make up that number. So anything
00:09:16.060 that we could do to encourage health care providers to stay in this country would be making sense.
00:09:20.700 Yes. You know, the other group that I talked to just yesterday, in fact, again,
00:09:25.660 were dentists who also have small businesses. And in many communities right now, there are access
00:09:32.500 problems with getting a dentist. And they echoed these comments as well to say, you know what,
00:09:38.260 if we're going to be penalized for making our own way, many of them will buy another dental practice,
00:09:44.040 or in the case of dentists, they often have property holdings as well. Why would we keep doing this?
00:09:49.760 Yeah. So they have, you know, significant concerns over this, of how it's going to affect the workforce
00:09:56.420 as it applies to dentists as well. So, I mean, we can't be a country without health care.
00:10:03.620 But it seems as though, you know...
00:10:06.000 Well, they'll have another government program to fix it. 0.98
00:10:07.980 Yeah. Well, it's kind of shocking because, you know, as we've taken the saying, they are creating
00:10:15.020 problems and then they're creating programs to fix the problems that they created, which...
00:10:19.340 Never actually fixed the actual problem. It just goes on and on. And they need more money
00:10:23.000 and resources to power those programs that they created. It's a very vicious cycle.
00:10:27.040 So, you were in committee, let's queue up cut one, you were in committee not long ago,
00:10:32.220 facing the health minister. And it's always fun to watch you two go back and forth. Mark Hollins
00:10:36.320 is a health minister. I think you had him on the ropes when you were talking about the implementation
00:10:40.760 of the capital gains. And did they actually look at the unintended consequences, which is
00:10:44.960 fewer doctors in a health care crisis? So let's play cut one.
00:10:48.840 Did your government complete an analysis on the tax hikes before implementing the change?
00:10:53.800 So, asking those who are making more than $250,000 from capital gains...
00:10:58.740 No, no, that's not what I asked you. I said, did you complete an analysis?
00:11:00.560 But I don't agree. Look, I'm not here to play your bizarre game.
00:11:03.740 This is not a game. I'm here to try to answer questions rooted in reality.
00:11:06.260 Minister, if you want to issue a press release with your thoughts, I welcome it.
00:11:08.300 If you think the Canadians not having a physician is a game, then you're in the wrong job.
00:11:13.360 I think that the menace...
00:11:13.980 You are in the wrong job.
00:11:15.020 I think cutting dental care, cutting pharma care, cuts to health care...
00:11:17.820 So I guess the question is, Minister...
00:11:18.800 Those are the things that are menacing our health care system, asking for a more equitable tax system.
00:11:22.800 Are you really going to just never answer any questions? Is that your plan?
00:11:27.500 Mark Holland is a terrible minister. He is the absolute worst. 0.98
00:11:32.060 And there's a lot of bad ministers in that caucus. 0.91
00:11:35.020 Well, he's certainly the king of word salad.
00:11:36.840 Yeah.
00:11:37.440 He always says a lot of words. You know, we often talk about word count.
00:11:41.040 I would be interested to see his word count.
00:11:43.880 But the substance is not there. That's the sad part for Canadians.
00:11:48.820 You know, when you look at this, as you mentioned, if you're going to implement a change, you would like to know what the consequence of that change is.
00:11:56.400 I think all they were looking at is the reported $7 billion that they were hoping to raise.
00:12:02.020 Yes.
00:12:02.820 And I think it was a talking point for them, too, right?
00:12:05.700 Absolutely.
00:12:06.000 Look at us. We're doing something.
00:12:07.160 Right. But to peg, you know, physicians as being rich, physicians are paid well, generally speaking.
00:12:15.820 Everybody knows that.
00:12:17.080 But as you said, you know, how do you choose that compensation?
00:12:20.880 If you go to school, you become educated, you have a very significant responsibility, then, you know, the question is, is how should you be compensated?
00:12:31.400 Well, it's also supply and demand, right?
00:12:32.860 We only have so many people that can be doctors, right?
00:12:35.500 There's only so many people can be doctors, right?
00:12:37.740 So we need doctors.
00:12:39.320 So it's supply and demand and my, you know, same thing with skilled tradespeople.
00:12:43.680 Right.
00:12:43.840 They're getting paid a lot of money because we don't have a lot of them right now.
00:12:46.520 Right.
00:12:46.740 Right.
00:12:46.960 And not everyone can be a tradesperson.
00:12:48.380 Right. And there's a huge demand, right?
00:12:49.860 As you mentioned, with that creativity and the ability to make something out of, often out of nothing, then, wow, that's amazing.
00:12:57.560 And I think people recognize that in our society and say, hey, yeah, I'm willing to pay for that.
00:13:02.380 Yeah.
00:13:02.920 And so it makes sense.
00:13:04.500 So, you know, I don't hear many people out there saying that doctors are paid too much.
00:13:10.460 I don't really hear that either.
00:13:12.780 Probably some of them are.
00:13:14.520 Wow.
00:13:14.700 You know, but that being said, that's their outliers in every profession.
00:13:18.700 Yeah, we want to get more, right?
00:13:20.520 Abundance equals peace.
00:13:21.440 We've got a graphic here just showing the doctor shortage.
00:13:25.440 You know, that's a staggering number when we have a population of about 40 million.
00:13:30.080 We have, I don't know if you want to talk about, we're almost out of time, but I don't know if you want to talk about maybe the graphic itself or the Blue Seal program that we're talking about or anything else.
00:13:38.580 Yeah, so I think the Blue Seal program is directly related to the graphic.
00:13:43.560 You know, if you think about it, that one in four Canadians will not have access to a physician.
00:13:48.540 It's absolutely huge.
00:13:49.920 It's staggering.
00:13:50.700 There's no other superlative I could think of.
00:13:52.620 So part of the idea that we have is related to how can we, as a country, understand when people are trained elsewhere and they have experience elsewhere in the world, how can we quickly get them into our Canadian system?
00:14:06.940 And that's something that we have announced a long time ago and, you know, right now we continue to work with regulators to say that this has to be a reality when we form government and how exactly, the nuts and bolts of how exactly we're going to do that.
00:14:23.040 It's definitely doable and it's something that we can make come to fruition very easily, I think.
00:14:27.720 I think the other thing that we need to look at is historically, 30 years ago, I know that's a lifetime for many people, but my class in family medicine was the first class to be required to do two years of training after medical school to be a family physician.
00:14:42.980 Historically, it was one year.
00:14:44.580 And that's another challenge that I presented to regulators to say, you know, can we reduce this training time burden, you know, closer to one year than to two?
00:14:54.180 We would have significantly more domestically grown family physicians then as well.
00:14:59.160 So that's something we are pursuing.
00:15:01.320 So we understand that this is a problem.
00:15:03.880 If you can't get seen, you can't get care.
00:15:06.280 That's true, exactly.
00:15:07.200 We're pretty much out of time.
00:15:09.000 Guests get the last word.
00:15:09.900 The floor is yours.
00:15:11.120 You know, we talk about this fantastic health care system that we have and we do, but if people can't access it, it's not fantastic for them.
00:15:19.360 This needs to change.
00:15:20.400 It's one of the things that as Canadians, we're very proud of.
00:15:23.000 And so we need a conservative government to make Canadians proud of their health care system once again.
00:15:28.000 Couldn't agree with more.
00:15:29.120 Dr. Stephen Ellis, Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, also the critic for health.
00:15:32.920 Appreciate your time.
00:15:33.660 Appreciate yours as well.
00:15:34.880 Don't forget, all summer long, you can like, comment, subscribe and share this program.
00:15:38.080 Your friends can download it too on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play and Spotify.
00:15:42.880 New content every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern time.
00:15:45.720 Until next week, remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom.
00:15:49.620 That's the blueprint.
00:15:53.000 That's the purpose I like to legacy to let you imagine.
00:15:56.140 So that's a saying.
00:15:57.140 That's a great one.
00:15:57.560 I'm starting to make up the plan.
00:15:58.100 You're at least not 100 a year.
00:15:59.400 You're working through that control.
00:16:00.760 I'm starting to pause.
00:16:02.240 You heard a couple of times.
00:16:07.980 I'm starting to take your Oslo falando.
00:16:10.140 You're writing down.
00:16:12.040 You're writing down as well.
00:16:12.480 You're writing down.
00:16:13.700 You're writing down.
00:16:15.000 You're writing down.
00:16:15.960 You're writing down as a phrase.
00:16:17.600 You're writing down as well.
00:16:18.000 You're writing down as well.