The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - August 20, 2024


Canada will be short 44,000 doctors by the year 2028.


Episode Stats

Length

16 minutes

Words per Minute

186.81432

Word Count

3,048

Sentence Count

222

Misogynist Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprint. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
00:00:09.040 host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps at the Lakes Brock with new
00:00:12.260 content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. Don't forget to like, comment,
00:00:16.560 subscribe and share this program. We'll have new content for you every single Tuesday, even
00:00:21.920 throughout the summer. You can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play,
00:00:25.840 Spotify, you name it, it is out there. On today's show, we are talking about the doctor shortage that
00:00:30.720 has ravaged pretty much every part of this country. It seems to be getting worse, nurses too,
00:00:36.240 pretty much any healthcare professional. So to talk about that and much, much more, we bring on
00:00:40.240 Dr. Stephen Ellis, the Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, in the beautiful province
00:00:44.580 of Nova Scotia, also the health critic. Thanks for coming on. Well, thanks very much for having me,
00:00:48.320 Jamie. It's always a pleasure to be here. You know what? It always gets me. You say those lines,
00:00:52.940 they roll off your tongue like liquid gold. So it's amazing. Well, you inspire me to do my job and
00:00:58.820 I just try to live at the same level as Doc Ellis. So the healthcare shortage, absolutely terrible. I
00:01:06.140 don't think there is one part of the country you can go to where things seem fine. It's getting worse.
00:01:13.340 The Liberals have brought in new changes to the capital gains, which many doctors relied on a
00:01:19.080 corporate structure, if you will, to save for their retirement, etc. Maybe just lay down the picture
00:01:24.740 of what we're dealing with, what the government has been doing that has been just pushing physicians
00:01:29.560 either out of the trade altogether or out of the country. It's a huge problem, you know, as you
00:01:35.340 mentioned, Jamie. I mean, we're talking almost 7 million Canadians right now without access to primary
00:01:40.920 care. And, you know, as your viewers out there know very clearly that having a family doctor is
00:01:48.280 how you get into the system, so to speak, in Canada. You know, you can't have a test or a referral
00:01:53.440 without access to primary care. And that creates huge backlogs in the emergency room. People have no
00:01:59.900 choice. They can't access a family doctor or nurse practitioner. And so therefore, they are forced to go
00:02:05.420 to the emergency room for, you know, tests, investigations, referrals, etc. You know, with an
00:02:12.740 expanded scope of practice for pharmacists, you know, you can get your medications refilled by
00:02:18.140 times, although probably not perpetually. But certainly there's some things there that are
00:02:24.660 helpful, expanding other practitioners' scope of practice. But when we look at it now to understand
00:02:31.620 that there is this already existing huge problem, now what the government has done, as you mentioned,
00:02:38.000 many physicians in this country are still working what we call in the business fee for service. So
00:02:43.820 you get paid on a per patient basis. And what the government did, it's probably around 25 years ago
00:02:51.600 now, is they allowed physicians the ability to incorporate, as you said. And the messaging at the
00:02:58.620 time was that was in exchange for the fact that the fees that physicians were being paid were not
00:03:04.060 increasing very much because of government austerity at the time. So they said, we'll give you this
00:03:10.940 opportunity then to save for your retirement in a different way. Right. So that was, you know, adopted by
00:03:19.460 many physicians. And certainly, that continues on to this day, that ability is still there. And in physicians,
00:03:27.740 for instance, such as myself, I practiced medicine for 26 years, now I'm here. But all of my savings
00:03:34.600 are saved in a corporate vehicle, of course, you might say. And, you know, those will be subjected to
00:03:41.440 this capital gains increase, which causes much consternation. You know, for other physicians who have
00:03:48.620 retired, they're not going to go back to work. So where does that leave them with this change that
00:03:54.580 that they were promised would help them retire? And now the government is increasing the tax on that.
00:04:01.440 This is a major tax hike. Of course, as we know, in any government that gets too big, or the spending
00:04:07.120 gets too far out of control, they look for other ways to raise revenue, right? Taxing, borrowing,
00:04:11.940 printing, combination thereof can debauch the economy or currency at the same time. The government's just
00:04:18.140 broke. They're not short of cash, right? So they think of doctors as people who have stuff. And I'm not
00:04:25.080 saying they're well paid, but you kind of want them to be well paid, because they do an amazing job,
00:04:29.300 and they have to be super smart, and years and decades of training and all that. But at the same
00:04:33.720 time, they were, as you mentioned, they were told to do this, and you can save for your time. Because
00:04:38.760 otherwise, there really isn't a vehicle available to these physicians. No. You know, I mean, there's a
00:04:43.780 whole host of things there that are the problem, right? Is, you know, I would suggest that this
00:04:50.220 government is attacking anybody who chooses to be successful. Yes, who has, in their mind, stuff.
00:04:55.600 Right. Right. You know, you see it in other small businesses as well. I mean, this country
00:05:01.060 is built on the back of small business people who take that risk, often with much of their
00:05:06.660 own money. Usually in their businesses, they originally invest more than 50 percent of their
00:05:12.080 own income, of their own savings in that business, and then it grows. And so should they be penalized
00:05:18.320 because they took that risk, or should they be rewarded? Because oftentimes, they will also
00:05:24.040 employ a multitude of staff running, helping to run their business. Then they will have
00:05:29.460 other investments. They often, you know, will buy buildings, the building that their business
00:05:34.720 is in. So, I don't understand why this NDP liberal coalition wants to punish small business
00:05:43.240 owners. It makes no sense to me, because that's how our economy runs. And we want people to take
00:05:48.720 risks in an appropriate fashion, of course. And we want them to be successful. And that
00:05:55.820 is also, again, them paying their taxes is what allows the economy to continue to run.
00:06:02.500 So when we apply this to a healthcare model, you know, the Canadian Medical Association, the
00:06:07.980 Ontario Medical Association has been very clear that this will negatively impact doctors wanting
00:06:14.580 to stay or even go to medical school. And then, you know, we've heard certainly people have reached
00:06:19.760 out to me and said, I'm not staying in this country anymore.
00:06:22.400 And it's important to recognize, too, I know we're focusing more on healthcare because the doctor
00:06:27.960 shortage is real and getting worse, and this government seems to have no plan to fix it.
00:06:32.620 Farmers are being hit with that, small business owners, right? There's risk and reward, right?
00:06:36.600 If a farmer decides they want to pick up, you know, a couple hundred thousand more acres
00:06:41.000 to do their business and they can, you know, with the price of cattle drops or whatever,
00:06:46.140 you do take that risk. But hopefully, the good times are ahead and beef prices or crops,
00:06:50.920 whatever it is, gets better and you're able to recoup some of your loss and then plan for
00:06:56.260 the future, right? And as you said, it goes beyond the healthcare field. But when you put
00:07:03.320 these barriers in place, you push down those that are trying to not only enrich, you know,
00:07:11.760 make a better life for themselves, but also we're richer as a community if we have more doctors
00:07:16.380 and more farmers, right? It's more businesses.
00:07:19.680 Yeah. And I think that that's really the underlying issue here is to say that we want people,
00:07:26.060 as I said, to take a risk and say, hey, my idea is a good idea. I want to help build my community.
00:07:31.620 Maybe, as I said, maybe they buy an apartment building to help with the housing crisis that
00:07:37.920 we have going on. Should those people be penalized for that? And perhaps, you know, in the case of
00:07:44.740 physicians, should you be able to change the rules partway through the game? And I guess I said
00:07:50.800 physicians, but realistically affects all small business owners the same way. And one of the messages
00:07:56.120 that I also think is incredibly important is they would suggest that the NDP Liberal
00:08:01.520 coalition would suggest that it's not many Canadians, and we know that's not true.
00:08:05.980 You know, talk, go around your own community and see how many small businesses there are.
00:08:10.120 So I think that's incredibly important. And in the changes that they've made, it's on the first
00:08:15.000 dollar earned inside a small business. They talk about an exemption, et cetera, et cetera. But
00:08:20.200 with the structure that they've done, it's not that. It's the first dollar that you earn,
00:08:24.700 and every dollar will be taxed that way. So it's a huge negative for folks who want to,
00:08:32.340 as I said, take risk, kind of control their own destiny, and make their own way in this world.
00:08:37.120 And those are the people that we need to support in my mind.
00:08:40.560 Exactly. Absolutely.
00:08:41.640 Who want to do things and create things. And in the case of health care providers,
00:08:47.220 they want to help look after people and be a good resource. You know, it's interesting when you look at
00:08:53.080 some of the other statistics around this, you know, in, by 2028, 2030, the statistics would say,
00:09:01.760 we're going to be 44,000 doctors short in this country. You know, when we graduate somewhere
00:09:09.700 around 4,000 to 5,000 every year, it's an impossibility to make up that number. So anything
00:09:16.060 that we could do to encourage health care providers to stay in this country would be making sense.
00:09:20.700 Yes. You know, the other group that I talked to just yesterday, in fact, again,
00:09:25.660 were dentists who also have small businesses. And in many communities right now, there are access
00:09:32.500 problems with getting a dentist. And they echoed these comments as well to say, you know what,
00:09:38.260 if we're going to be penalized for making our own way, many of them will buy another dental practice,
00:09:44.040 or in the case of dentists, they often have property holdings as well. Why would we keep doing this?
00:09:49.760 Yeah. So they have, you know, significant concerns over this, of how it's going to affect the workforce
00:09:56.420 as it applies to dentists as well. So, I mean, we can't be a country without health care.
00:10:03.620 But it seems as though, you know...
00:10:06.000 Well, they'll have another government program to fix it.
00:10:07.980 Yeah. Well, it's kind of shocking because, you know, as we've taken the saying, they are creating
00:10:15.020 problems and then they're creating programs to fix the problems that they created, which...
00:10:19.340 Never actually fixed the actual problem. It just goes on and on. And they need more money
00:10:23.000 and resources to power those programs that they created. It's a very vicious cycle.
00:10:27.040 So, you were in committee, let's queue up cut one, you were in committee not long ago,
00:10:32.220 facing the health minister. And it's always fun to watch you two go back and forth. Mark Hollins
00:10:36.320 is a health minister. I think you had him on the ropes when you were talking about the implementation
00:10:40.760 of the capital gains. And did they actually look at the unintended consequences, which is
00:10:44.960 fewer doctors in a health care crisis? So let's play cut one.
00:10:48.840 Did your government complete an analysis on the tax hikes before implementing the change?
00:10:53.800 So, asking those who are making more than $250,000 from capital gains...
00:10:58.740 No, no, that's not what I asked you. I said, did you complete an analysis?
00:11:00.560 But I don't agree. Look, I'm not here to play your bizarre game.
00:11:03.740 This is not a game. I'm here to try to answer questions rooted in reality.
00:11:06.260 Minister, if you want to issue a press release with your thoughts, I welcome it.
00:11:08.300 If you think the Canadians not having a physician is a game, then you're in the wrong job.
00:11:13.360 I think that the menace...
00:11:13.980 You are in the wrong job.
00:11:15.020 I think cutting dental care, cutting pharma care, cuts to health care...
00:11:17.820 So I guess the question is, Minister...
00:11:18.800 Those are the things that are menacing our health care system, asking for a more equitable tax system.
00:11:22.800 Are you really going to just never answer any questions? Is that your plan?
00:11:27.500 Mark Holland is a terrible minister. He is the absolute worst.
00:11:32.060 And there's a lot of bad ministers in that caucus.
00:11:35.020 Well, he's certainly the king of word salad.
00:11:36.840 Yeah.
00:11:37.440 He always says a lot of words. You know, we often talk about word count.
00:11:41.040 I would be interested to see his word count.
00:11:43.880 But the substance is not there. That's the sad part for Canadians.
00:11:48.820 You know, when you look at this, as you mentioned, if you're going to implement a change, you would like to know what the consequence of that change is.
00:11:56.400 I think all they were looking at is the reported $7 billion that they were hoping to raise.
00:12:02.020 Yes.
00:12:02.820 And I think it was a talking point for them, too, right?
00:12:05.700 Absolutely.
00:12:06.000 Look at us. We're doing something.
00:12:07.160 Right. But to peg, you know, physicians as being rich, physicians are paid well, generally speaking.
00:12:15.820 Everybody knows that.
00:12:17.080 But as you said, you know, how do you choose that compensation?
00:12:20.880 If you go to school, you become educated, you have a very significant responsibility, then, you know, the question is, is how should you be compensated?
00:12:31.400 Well, it's also supply and demand, right?
00:12:32.860 We only have so many people that can be doctors, right?
00:12:35.500 There's only so many people can be doctors, right?
00:12:37.740 So we need doctors.
00:12:39.320 So it's supply and demand and my, you know, same thing with skilled tradespeople.
00:12:43.680 Right.
00:12:43.840 They're getting paid a lot of money because we don't have a lot of them right now.
00:12:46.520 Right.
00:12:46.740 Right.
00:12:46.960 And not everyone can be a tradesperson.
00:12:48.380 Right. And there's a huge demand, right?
00:12:49.860 As you mentioned, with that creativity and the ability to make something out of, often out of nothing, then, wow, that's amazing.
00:12:57.560 And I think people recognize that in our society and say, hey, yeah, I'm willing to pay for that.
00:13:02.380 Yeah.
00:13:02.920 And so it makes sense.
00:13:04.500 So, you know, I don't hear many people out there saying that doctors are paid too much.
00:13:10.460 I don't really hear that either.
00:13:12.780 Probably some of them are.
00:13:14.520 Wow.
00:13:14.700 You know, but that being said, that's their outliers in every profession.
00:13:18.700 Yeah, we want to get more, right?
00:13:20.520 Abundance equals peace.
00:13:21.440 We've got a graphic here just showing the doctor shortage.
00:13:25.440 You know, that's a staggering number when we have a population of about 40 million.
00:13:30.080 We have, I don't know if you want to talk about, we're almost out of time, but I don't know if you want to talk about maybe the graphic itself or the Blue Seal program that we're talking about or anything else.
00:13:38.580 Yeah, so I think the Blue Seal program is directly related to the graphic.
00:13:43.560 You know, if you think about it, that one in four Canadians will not have access to a physician.
00:13:48.540 It's absolutely huge.
00:13:49.920 It's staggering.
00:13:50.700 There's no other superlative I could think of.
00:13:52.620 So part of the idea that we have is related to how can we, as a country, understand when people are trained elsewhere and they have experience elsewhere in the world, how can we quickly get them into our Canadian system?
00:14:06.940 And that's something that we have announced a long time ago and, you know, right now we continue to work with regulators to say that this has to be a reality when we form government and how exactly, the nuts and bolts of how exactly we're going to do that.
00:14:23.040 It's definitely doable and it's something that we can make come to fruition very easily, I think.
00:14:27.720 I think the other thing that we need to look at is historically, 30 years ago, I know that's a lifetime for many people, but my class in family medicine was the first class to be required to do two years of training after medical school to be a family physician.
00:14:42.980 Historically, it was one year.
00:14:44.580 And that's another challenge that I presented to regulators to say, you know, can we reduce this training time burden, you know, closer to one year than to two?
00:14:54.180 We would have significantly more domestically grown family physicians then as well.
00:14:59.160 So that's something we are pursuing.
00:15:01.320 So we understand that this is a problem.
00:15:03.880 If you can't get seen, you can't get care.
00:15:06.280 That's true, exactly.
00:15:07.200 We're pretty much out of time.
00:15:09.000 Guests get the last word.
00:15:09.900 The floor is yours.
00:15:11.120 You know, we talk about this fantastic health care system that we have and we do, but if people can't access it, it's not fantastic for them.
00:15:19.360 This needs to change.
00:15:20.400 It's one of the things that as Canadians, we're very proud of.
00:15:23.000 And so we need a conservative government to make Canadians proud of their health care system once again.
00:15:28.000 Couldn't agree with more.
00:15:29.120 Dr. Stephen Ellis, Member of Parliament for Cumberland, Colchester, also the critic for health.
00:15:32.920 Appreciate your time.
00:15:33.660 Appreciate yours as well.
00:15:34.880 Don't forget, all summer long, you can like, comment, subscribe and share this program.
00:15:38.080 Your friends can download it too on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play and Spotify.
00:15:42.880 New content every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern time.
00:15:45.720 Until next week, remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom.
00:15:49.620 That's the blueprint.
00:15:53.000 That's the purpose I like to legacy to let you imagine.
00:15:56.140 So that's a saying.
00:15:57.140 That's a great one.
00:15:57.560 I'm starting to make up the plan.
00:15:58.100 You're at least not 100 a year.
00:15:59.400 You're working through that control.
00:16:00.760 I'm starting to pause.
00:16:02.240 You heard a couple of times.
00:16:07.980 I'm starting to take your Oslo falando.
00:16:10.140 You're writing down.
00:16:12.040 You're writing down as well.
00:16:12.480 You're writing down.
00:16:13.700 You're writing down.
00:16:15.000 You're writing down.
00:16:15.960 You're writing down as a phrase.
00:16:17.600 You're writing down as well.
00:16:18.000 You're writing down as well.