The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - Housing; beyond the parents’ basement

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprint. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your

00:00:15.680 host, Jamie Schmael, member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps with Alex Brock, with new

00:00:19.160 content for you every single Tuesday, even throughout the summer, 1.30 p.m. Eastern

00:00:24.000 Time. We do appreciate you joining us. Don't forget, you can like, you can comment, you

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00:00:36.940 there. And don't forget, you can download it and play it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes,

00:00:40.840 Google Play, and Spotify. You name it, it is out there. Another great show lined up for

00:00:45.340 you again this week. Of course, a topic we're going to be talking about is something that

00:00:50.040 has been called, according to the Ottawa Citizen, Canada's most pressing issue of our time, and

00:00:56.020 that is the housing shortage. So, to talk about that, Scott Aitchison is going to join us, the

00:01:01.020 member of Parliament for Perry South Muskoka, also the critic for housing. Thanks very much,

00:01:04.820 Mike, my neighbour to the north. Thanks for coming on.

00:01:08.900 Yeah, sort of the northwest, I guess, isn't it? It's good to be here, Jamie. Thank you for

00:01:12.900 having me once again.

00:01:15.100 Best part of the country is Muskoka, Halliburton area. Of course, everywhere up in this area is

00:01:20.980 paradise. So, great to have you on the show. It's unfortunate we're talking about a topic

00:01:26.340 that is kind of raging throughout the country and is really hurting a lot of people. It

00:01:33.140 doesn't matter if you're in the older age group, younger age group, it is something that has

00:01:38.480 affected everyone. And everywhere I go, people are talking about this.

00:01:42.180 Yeah, you're right, Jamie. And the fact of the matter is, it comes down to a question

00:01:48.260 of supply. We don't have enough homes for the people who live here and the people that we're

00:01:55.540 welcoming to this country as well. And, of course, the situation has only gotten worse under the

00:02:02.980 current government because, of course, they've promised the world with their national housing

00:02:07.620 strategy. But in the end, what's resulted from their efforts has been a doubling in house prices,

00:02:15.940 a doubling in rent, double of your mortgage payments have doubled, interest rates are skyrocketing,

00:02:22.500 inflation's out of control. So, while groceries and everything are expensive, literally everything's

00:02:28.660 more expensive, but most particularly housing. And it comes down to this. There's no real leadership at

00:02:35.380 the federal level to make sure that municipalities who are on the front lines of the housing crisis

00:02:41.620 are getting developments approved quickly with as minimal cost as possible. And you have a federal

00:02:48.740 government that funnels money to municipalities without any strings attached, without any expectation

00:02:55.300 of results. And, of course, their excessive borrowing and massive deficits are only adding

00:03:01.780 to inflation and making everything more expensive, including housing. So, it's a real spiral that

00:03:08.260 they've created. And, you know, Canadians are paying the price.

00:03:13.780 So, let's remind Canadians how we got here in the first place. If you remember during the pandemic,

00:03:18.580 when it first hit, housing prices dropped significantly. The market slowed down. Of course, prices

00:03:25.140 were reasonable. People could afford it for the most part. And then, all of a sudden, when the printing

00:03:30.420 presses kicked in and all that extra cash was just funneled into the marketplace, the pandemic saw

00:03:37.940 prices go out of control. Like, you had bidding wars. People bidding and losing out no matter how

00:03:44.020 high they went in some cases. And young people who were trying to start a family, who wanted to get in

00:03:49.540 the housing market, they had to put everything on the line for even a chance for a bid to be considered.

00:03:56.340 And we saw the many stories of people going $100,000, $150,000, $200,000 over asking and still being

00:04:03.860 turned down because there was someone that was willing to go higher. And, of course, with the rising

00:04:08.340 interest rates, I think this might cause some pain very shortly.

00:04:13.300 Well, and Canadians heard Pierre Polyave warn about this over and over and over again.

00:04:19.140 You have too much money chasing too few goods. And as a result, you get inflation.

00:04:26.980 He said it, if he said it once, he said it a million times. And, you know, as we said before,

00:04:33.220 Justin Trudeau was a teacher. This wasn't a math teacher. And so he didn't understand what Pierre was

00:04:39.460 trying to explain to him. Well, Canadians see the results.

00:04:43.060 Well, first, we were told inflation wasn't going to be a problem. But at the same time,

00:04:50.900 you had people that saw the value because of all this cash. People were buying things,

00:04:56.500 like you said, too many dollars chasing too few goods. And there were people that became,

00:05:02.420 you know, if you had a house, you became in some cases, a lot of cases, instantly wealthy. Your value

00:05:08.100 went up hundreds of thousand dollars. Even if you bought it a few months ago, prior to the pandemic,

00:05:12.980 and now after, you probably didn't put a dollar into it. And all of a sudden, your house has gone

00:05:17.380 up, you know, by incredible amounts.

00:05:22.740 Well, yeah, there's no question about that. But of course, you know, you talk to people

00:05:27.140 that are thinking of maybe selling and trying to capitalize on that growth and the value of their

00:05:31.620 homes. And they realize, well, where would I go? You know, and this really is a big part of the

00:05:37.860 problem. And so, you know, when we talk about the housing spectrum, you know, it's everything from

00:05:44.180 literally emergency shelter up to, you know, maybe, you know, your first home you buy to, you know,

00:05:50.980 maybe even a cottage or a second home. That's it's a it's a it's a broad spectrum. But it's also a

00:05:56.740 continuum. People move through the housing spectrum based on their needs and their circumstances.

00:06:02.580 And when people are not able to move through that spectrum, everybody gets trapped and the most

00:06:09.060 vulnerable in our society pay the highest price. And really, the genesis of the crisis we're seeing

00:06:14.900 today started with the first Trudeau government back in 1975, when they changed the tax system that

00:06:24.500 encouraged the construction of purpose built rentals, what we mean is like buildings that were

00:06:29.460 built specifically to rent, not condos, not for sale, but multi unit residential apartment buildings.

00:06:36.980 And so when when when that stopped, you know, the private sector was looking for ways to make money.

00:06:44.420 And of course, it didn't make sense to build rentals because your return was so much farther in the

00:06:49.860 future. And so the federal government decided at the time that they would get into building housing

00:06:55.060 themselves. Whether you agree with that policy prescription or not in, you know, shortly after

00:07:01.220 they decided to do that, the world economy took a downturn. And one of the first things they stopped

00:07:06.900 investing in was housing. And so there's been this cumulative impact. And now we see the second Trudeau

00:07:14.900 government. And of course, they've added literally fuel to the fire with deficit spending, with, you

00:07:22.260 know, massive debt, and literally just shoveling money out the door. It feels very much like their

00:07:28.900 prescription to solve every problem is to throw money in the air and see what happens. Well, we know

00:07:34.660 what happens. It just makes everything more expensive.

00:07:37.620 Yes, the results really aren't a key measuring tool for this government. It's just we put X amount

00:07:47.940 of millions or billions into this file, and hopefully magically it will take care of itself. So how many

00:07:54.180 just to just to restore affordability? How many housing units do we need by say 2030? Just to restore

00:08:02.900 affordability. Yeah, it's a good question. The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which does analysis and

00:08:09.460 research on housing generally in Canada, has reported that we would need 5.8, almost 6 million

00:08:16.980 housing units by 2030 to restore affordability. So just to give you a sense of what that means, that's

00:08:27.380 from today that that would mean 750 or 60,000 housing units completed every year. Just so you have a

00:08:36.020 sense. The most Canada has ever built in terms of housing units in a year was in the 70s. And I think

00:08:43.460 we peaked out about 275,000 units that year. So we do on average about 225 to 30,000 units a year now.

00:08:53.620 And of course, it's far more complex process, which is another part of the problem. Yeah,

00:08:59.940 the municipalities have layers and layers of rules now. And it's harder and harder to get things

00:09:06.500 approved because of, you know, NIMBYism, you know, people don't like change in their communities. They 0.54

00:09:11.460 don't want to see higher density development. And, and of course, local politicians oftentimes will just

00:09:18.180 sort of defer to the crowd as opposed to doing the right thing. We see some provinces stepping up,

00:09:23.540 and trying to, you know, basically, you know, remove those obstacles.

00:09:29.140 But what's missing is real federal leadership. And this is another thing, Jamie, that Pierre has

00:09:33.220 talked a lot about, about about using federal dollars, basically, whether it's, you know,

00:09:40.580 federal transit infrastructure dollars, you know, the federal government gives billions of dollars

00:09:44.900 every year to cities, for their, for their, their transit systems to expand them and to grow them.

00:09:52.100 Whether it's, you know, actual housing dollars, all those infrastructure dollars have to be tied

00:09:57.540 to results. We can't just sort of hope that municipalities get it right and hope that they'll

00:10:02.180 come on board, because that hasn't worked. You know, Justin Trudeau has tried the, you know,

00:10:08.020 let's hold hands and get a long approach and hopefully everything gets better. But we all

00:10:13.220 have seen the results, it doesn't work. And so the federal government under Pierre Polyev,

00:10:18.260 prime minister, would tie billions of federal dollars to municipalities to results. We call it dollars

00:10:26.580 for doors. If you're delaying and adding costs, and making housing more expensive, we want you to get out

00:10:34.420 of the way. So how, how does the, how do we reach that target? And, and, and at the same time, we're

00:10:45.060 seeing a very real shortage in the skilled trades, right? If anyone has tried to get a roofer, in many

00:10:51.780 cases, it's almost near impossible, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. For the longest time,

00:10:57.780 I remember when I was in high school, we were told everyone has to go to university, right? You have to go to

00:11:03.300 university, that's the path. Now things are changing. People in, in school boards across the country are, are,

00:11:10.100 are changing that view and trying to direct people into the skilled trades because not everyone is a

00:11:15.220 university student and there's nothing wrong with going to a skilled trade. It's the most noble profession.

00:11:20.020 Um, so we should be pushing that. So how do we accelerate that part of the, the labor market shortage?

00:11:26.020 Because that, that too is, is contributing to the price of a house.

00:11:29.460 Well, and this is a really crucial point, Jim. I'm glad you raised it because, you know, encouraging

00:11:35.700 young people in the education system to go into the trades is absolutely crucial and it's important,

00:11:41.060 but there's going to take some time for those young people, those students to be into the workforce.

00:11:45.700 So the other thing that's going on, of course, in this country is that, is that we welcome new

00:11:49.540 Canadians every year. Uh, but we need to make sure our immigration system is attracting and enticing 1.00

00:11:56.420 people with the skills and the abilities we need to help build this country. Uh, and that also means

00:12:02.100 working very closely with the provinces to make sure that those skills and abilities are recognized

00:12:08.500 as soon as they get here, like as quickly as possible. So we can get people working in their,

00:12:13.860 in their field right away. And so we've, you've heard Pierre talked about this in terms of nurses

00:12:18.180 and doctors, but it also needs to happen when it comes to electricians and plumbers and carpenters.

00:12:23.540 These are the skills that we need in this country. And we need to be making sure that our immigration 1.00

00:12:28.180 system is meeting the needs of the economy and the citizens of this country.

00:12:34.180 And we can do all of that. And I, I totally on board with everything you've said and, and love it.

00:12:40.020 At the same time, we have to also, and you mentioned it earlier, uh, almost actually right off the top is

00:12:46.100 what the former liberal finance minister, John Manley had said with, with the government still deficit

00:12:52.020 spending with, with their inflationary spending, you're, you're trying to put your foot on the gas

00:12:57.060 and the brake at the same time. And, and you really have to get the books under control,

00:13:01.540 some fiscal sanity back in Ottawa in order to bring the prices of everything back down.

00:13:06.660 Well, I'm glad you used his, uh, his example of your, you know, your, your one foot on the gas

00:13:11.380 and one foot on the brake at the same time. He's correct. And you know, this, I can, this is another

00:13:16.340 thing that, you know, Pierre has warned, uh, parliament about over and over and over again.

00:13:22.420 Uh, now the liberals will have you believe that, you know, Pierre is a, you know, bad guy who just

00:13:26.340 wants to cut everything. Uh, and frankly, that's not the case. He wants us to get fiscal sanity back

00:13:32.580 in place, uh, and make sure that we're not deficit spending. It, it'd be very easy to, to rein in the

00:13:38.180 spending of this government. They've increased the public sector, uh, by 30%. And at the same time,

00:13:43.940 has spent literally billions and billions and billions of dollars on outside consultants.

00:13:49.220 You could, you could just cut, cut the consulting budget of this government. You could almost have

00:13:53.140 things back in balance. Like that's how insane their spending is. Uh, so just some common sense

00:13:59.700 approach to how we invest Canadians tax dollars and how we make sure that, uh, you know, we're,

00:14:05.860 we're investing in the things and the, and the service that Canadians need and spending a lot less

00:14:10.100 money on, you know, making Justin Trudeau look good and, and, uh, and keeping his consultant

00:14:14.420 friends well, well healed. And, and just being responsible with the dollars we had. Ottawa has

00:14:20.020 never been more flush with cash. It has so much money right now, but yet Justin Trudeau can't, can't

00:14:25.940 control what he spends money on. We have the, the, uh, the infrastructure bank that hasn't actually

00:14:30.980 produced a job where we're funding pipelines in China for crying out loud. Like how about some

00:14:35.540 responsibility with the dollars we have? How about some respect for the dollars that we were taking

00:14:40.260 in? Cause people have to work hard in order for the government to collect that. We, we have to be

00:14:44.500 more prudent. Well, I listen, I there's, there's no shortage of that waste, Jamie. You've seen it a

00:14:51.460 lot longer than I have. My, my background is in municipal politics. And I got to tell you, if we burn

00:14:57.060 through cash at the local level, the way they do at the federal level, they'd ever, you know, butts out of

00:15:01.540 office in a New York minute. It's, it's shameful the way money is wasted in Ottawa. Uh, and, and for

00:15:08.260 me, it's not, it's not just about being responsible. It's about being respectful. It's about being

00:15:13.780 respectful to the hardworking Canadians. Who, who's that, whose money that is. There's this sense in

00:15:20.420 Ottawa that everything you have is actually theirs until they decide to give some back to you as

00:15:25.220 conservatives. That is not the way we approach things. Obviously it's your money and the money that,

00:15:30.820 that, you know, you, you pay to the government, you give to the government to deliver services for

00:15:35.540 you had better be delivered in a very efficient and a very effective way. And not a nickel more

00:15:40.900 should be taken from you. Please like comments, share, and subscribe to this program. You'll be

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00:15:54.500 they can do it to new content every single Tuesday without hesitation throughout the summer. There

00:16:00.900 will be something new to talk about.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - August 08, 2023

Housing; beyond the parents’ basement

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