The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - July 12, 2023


Independent media in the crosshairs


Episode Stats

Length

20 minutes

Words per Minute

180.18352

Word Count

3,731

Sentence Count

240

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

In this episode of Blueprint Canada's Conservative Podcast, host Jamie Schmael is joined by Conservative MP Rachel Thomas of Lethbridge, Alberta to discuss Bill C18, the proposed legislation that would have curbed access to the internet by Canadian media outlets.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to the Blueprint Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your host,
00:00:09.380 Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, North of Lakes, Brock, broadcasting
00:00:12.980 live from my constituency office in Lindsay, Ontario, because as I told you back in June,
00:00:17.780 we will have new content for you every single Tuesday. We ask that you like, comment, share,
00:00:22.820 subscribe to this program. And of course, if you can't listen or watch it in its entirety,
00:00:27.160 right this very second, tell your friends about it as well. They can download it on platforms like
00:00:31.120 CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify. You name it, it is out there. There is so much to talk
00:00:36.480 about again. And we're going to bring back someone who's been on the show a few times, actually,
00:00:40.680 in the past few months. Not exactly for great reasons, because the topic we're going to be
00:00:45.520 discussing, not exactly something that we're very happy about in terms of the direction Canada is
00:00:50.880 going. So welcome back, Rachel Thomas, Member of Parliament for Lethbridge, also the Heritage
00:00:55.880 Critic. Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks, Jamie. So good to be with you. Really
00:01:00.280 appreciate the opportunity. And I understand you're at the Calgary Stampede just before we get
00:01:04.740 into C18 and tell the listeners and viewers what is going on with that. How was the Stampede this year?
00:01:10.820 Yeah, well, the Calgary Stampede, of course, brings hundreds of thousands of people to the city of
00:01:14.920 Calgary to enjoy the greatest outdoor show on earth. And it is indeed the Wild West out here. So we're
00:01:21.360 enjoying good times, connecting with folks from all across the country, being able to interact at
00:01:26.460 various events and meetings. And then, of course, there's the rodeo and the chuck wagons. And we're
00:01:31.320 having a good time over here. Well, the pictures and videos certainly looked amazing. So congratulations
00:01:36.240 to you and your team for putting them up and all the Conservative MPs around Alberta and elsewhere that
00:01:41.780 came to enjoy that show. Thanks so much. It's been a ton of fun. It's been a ton of fun.
00:01:47.800 Well, unfortunately, I have to really talk about this topic because we've had you on before to
00:01:54.320 talk about C11, which was the social media censorship bill. Now we're having you back to
00:01:59.220 talk about C18, which is the second piece of legislation concerning the internet, concerning
00:02:06.220 this time news agencies that the Liberals have completely made a mess of. And I'll get you to tell
00:02:12.320 us a bit about what C18 is, but just amazing what the Heritage Minister has been coming out
00:02:17.100 lately in the past week, especially saying, I can't believe this is happening. Why is this all
00:02:21.960 falling apart? Maybe, why don't you tell us about, you know, you came on this program many weeks ago
00:02:27.280 and said, this is going to happen if we go ahead. And sure enough, it happened. Why don't you tell
00:02:30.660 people what C18 is, and then we'll get into the more meaty stuff. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely,
00:02:36.540 Jamie. So I think what we're seeing is definitely the disintegration of this bill. We knew it was going
00:02:41.700 to be an absolute disaster. And sure enough, here we are. It is. You know, so basically,
00:02:46.760 if I was to take our audience back to the beginning, Bill C18 is essentially a bill that
00:02:50.840 was brought forward by the Liberal government. Minister Rodriguez, who is the Minister of Heritage,
00:02:55.640 is the one who is shepherding this bill. He brought this bill forward, I guess, as a solution to,
00:03:01.840 you know, the outcry from media needing more money. And of course, most of those voices were the big
00:03:09.500 broadcasters, Bell, CBC, and Rogers in particular, of course, basically crying out, asking the
00:03:16.100 government to assist them. And so the government came up with Bill C18. Bill C18, they said, was
00:03:21.140 supposed to help newspapers. That's how they decided to put this out there. It was going to help local
00:03:26.560 newspapers. It was going to help communities like mine, Lethbridge, or smaller communities across
00:03:31.680 this country. Again, that's how the Liberals positioned it. When the Parliamentary Budget Officer came
00:03:37.220 out, though, with his report, he made it really clear that actually, this bill is really about
00:03:42.180 those big broadcasters. 75% of the funding will go to Bell, CBC, and Rogers. Only 25% of funding will
00:03:49.680 be left for both the large newspapers, such as Post Media, and the smaller conglomerates, along with
00:03:55.800 ethnic media. So 25%, then, is actually about newspapers. 75% is about big broadcasters. Essentially,
00:04:02.560 what this bill does is it puts the CRTC, which is the commissioner, the regulatory arm, in charge of
00:04:09.720 determining which news outlets in Canada are actual news outlets and which are not, which get the state
00:04:15.620 stamp of approval, which don't. If you get the stamp of approval, it means that you can enter into
00:04:20.880 negotiations with platforms such as Facebook and Google. Once you enter into those negotiations,
00:04:26.320 essentially, what you're negotiating is being paid for news links. So, of course, what this does is it
00:04:33.840 causes a whole lot of problems in terms of the independence of journalists. It causes problems in
00:04:38.880 terms of choice with regard to media options and where we get our news as Canadians. It just puts the
00:04:45.040 government in the driver's seat and really results in censorship in terms of media that we have access
00:04:52.080 to as Canadians and the sources where we would obtain our news. Okay. So, here's another scary part.
00:04:58.800 Now, not only do we have C11, the manipulated algorithms, usually getting stuff you don't want
00:05:03.520 to see, and it's up to the government what that criteria is. But now, as you mentioned, C18 relies
00:05:11.600 heavily on the CRTC, so the Canadian Radio Television Telecommunications Commission, which determines,
00:05:17.600 as you mentioned, which qualified journalism organizations get that money. So, who is the
00:05:24.160 CRTC? Well, they are appointees of the government. So, you have a bunch of liberal appointees deciding
00:05:31.120 which agency, news agency, gets this funding that's out there. How does this support journalism in
00:05:39.520 any way? So, if you're saying something nasty against the government, they can take away your funding
00:05:44.480 because they don't agree. You're not approved journalists. Absolutely. Absolutely, Jamie,
00:05:50.000 and you're raising a really good point. And let's not mince our words. This bill makes it really clear
00:05:54.320 that actually Cabinet is in charge. So, this bill gives Cabinet the responsibility of determining
00:06:01.920 the terms of this legislation, and then it's the CRTC that actually has to enact those terms. But it is,
00:06:08.480 in fact, Cabinet that is able to make those decisions. And so, it can actually be the government itself,
00:06:13.920 then, determining, you know, which news outlets are going to be approved and which news outlets are
00:06:21.760 not. So, as soon as we go in that direction, we are entering into state-censored media. We are entering
00:06:28.320 into, you know, government-sponsored news, which again is really detrimental to the Canadian public. It's
00:06:35.040 detrimental to our democracy because it prevents multiple voices from being heard. Instead, only the
00:06:40.640 voices that the government wants to have heard will be supported by this legislation.
00:06:46.560 I think I read this recently, kind of a meme popped up. The novel 1984 does not have to be
00:06:54.880 current events, right? Like, this is unbelievable what is happening in Canada. And these Truanon supporters
00:07:04.000 are clapping at it. My point, and I think yours is too, we don't care if it's a conservative
00:07:08.640 government or a liberal government in charge. We don't want anybody in the government manipulating
00:07:14.000 what people can see, watch, and read.
00:07:16.240 One hundred percent, Jamie. That's exactly it, right? At the end of the day, you know,
00:07:21.280 as conservatives, we believe that journalists have gone to school, they've been trained,
00:07:24.800 they want to tell stories. And, you know, and they should be trusted to do so. And they should not
00:07:31.520 have to function under the thumb of the government or any organization for that matter. And so the
00:07:36.560 problem with this bill is that it not only puts the state squarely in the newsroom, if you will,
00:07:42.560 but it also makes tech giants in charge of which news links they are going to pay for and which news
00:07:48.000 links they're not. Which then means you have the government, Google and Facebook, determining what people
00:07:54.640 can or cannot access online. Again, that is a huge problem. Instead, we should be encouraging all
00:08:01.200 journalists across this country to tell the stories that they feel need to be told. And they should be
00:08:05.840 able to do that without any undue pressure from an outside authority. You mentioned it earlier,
00:08:10.880 but I do want to get back to it because I think it's important to highlight this again. The local
00:08:16.160 journalism parts, they're the ones being hit the hardest, because as you pointed out, the funding
00:08:20.720 model doesn't exactly favor them. But at the same time, the way that Google, Meta, and others will
00:08:29.120 be basically taking local journalism out of the search engine, if you will, that's going to damage
00:08:37.840 their ability to get their message out. And I don't know about you, but local papers don't really exist
00:08:42.160 anymore. Even in small towns, it's all online. Exactly. So you have local newspapers across the
00:08:49.600 country that function in smaller communities, and they tell the local stories. They tell the stories
00:08:56.720 about the graduates who did great things. They tell the stories about the events being hosted by a local
00:09:02.080 business. They tell the stories about community organizations and the various components of a small
00:09:08.400 town. And even larger towns, even places like Calgary or like Vancouver or like Toronto, there
00:09:16.000 are local stories that are wanting to be told. And it's up to these journalists at these smaller outlets
00:09:21.840 to tell those stories. But what happens is the government has now determined that the vast majority
00:09:27.680 of this funding is going to go towards the larger outlets. And so really, it is putting these smaller
00:09:32.400 guys at a significant disadvantage. The other problem with this bill is this. Both Google and
00:09:39.760 Facebook told the government at least a year ahead of time, look, if this legislation comes into place,
00:09:45.440 we're going to respect the legislation. And the way we're going to respect the legislation is by
00:09:50.320 simply not carrying news links anymore. The government decided to play Russian roulette,
00:09:56.160 and they pulled the trigger. They knew that this was terrible legislation. They were told by witness
00:10:00.880 after witness after witness at committee, both within the House of Commons and in the Senate.
00:10:05.280 They were given an opportunity to fix this legislation. Conservatives brought forward amendment
00:10:09.360 after amendment to help with that. We were turned down at every turn. And so at the end of the day,
00:10:15.040 the government pushed it through. Well, Google and Facebook have now made good on their threat,
00:10:19.120 and they said, we're not carrying news links anymore. What that does then is it harms Canadians.
00:10:25.280 It means that we cannot access the news sources that we wish to access.
00:10:29.920 So then the government decided that they were going to try to act all macho. And they said,
00:10:35.280 well, then we're not going to advertise on Facebook anymore. Now, what they were saying is we're not
00:10:39.920 going to put government announcements on Facebook anymore. So really what they're doing is they're
00:10:44.480 saying we're no longer going to make announcements with regards to public programming or service
00:10:50.240 announcements that Canadians deserve to hear about. We are no longer going to make those available on
00:10:54.800 Facebook. That's what the Liberal Minister was really saying. It had nothing to do with partisanship.
00:10:59.920 It had everything to do with just the government's responsibility to make things available to
00:11:04.240 Canadians. So at the end of the day, that's just hurting Canadians. Facebook doesn't care. It was 0.01%
00:11:10.160 of their overall ad revenue. So Facebook doesn't care about that. It was just simply the Minister of
00:11:15.520 Heritage trying to save face and act macho, but really was doing nothing to harm Facebook and
00:11:21.280 everything to harm Canadians by preventing them from being able to access important government
00:11:25.360 information. Now, here's what's interesting about this is that when we asked the Minister,
00:11:31.440 or when he was asked, I should say, with regards to the Liberal Party of Canada and whether or not
00:11:36.240 they would stop advertising on Facebook, they said, no, they're going to continue to use Facebook.
00:11:41.680 So in other words, it's okay for the Liberal Party of Canada to continue using Facebook for their
00:11:45.920 advertising. No problem there, because of course, they don't want to harm their political advantage.
00:11:50.720 But when it comes to the government of Canada, things that every Canadian should have access to,
00:11:55.200 well, you're out of luck. They're no longer going to make those messages available on public platforms.
00:12:00.400 So that's a huge problem. And I think what it highlights for Canadians is the fact that really,
00:12:07.200 this government is about saving face. It's about trying to look like they're doing the right thing,
00:12:11.840 but at the end of the day, they're not. As stated, this money is going towards large broadcasters.
00:12:17.440 It's not going towards ethnic media. It's not going towards small newspapers. It's not saving,
00:12:22.480 you know, choice in news across this country. Not at all. And in addition to that, when the government
00:12:27.440 says that they're going to, you know, be punitive towards Facebook, that's not at all true. In fact,
00:12:31.600 they're being punitive towards Canadians. So it's an absolute blunder. And then if I may,
00:12:37.440 just to finish this off, you know, the latest news is that as of the last couple of days,
00:12:42.480 now the heritage minister, again, in order to save face and, you know, continue with his prideful
00:12:49.280 function, you know, he said, well, actually, we're entering into some backroom deals with Google.
00:12:56.000 We're going to make sure that the news stays on this platform. So really, what he's saying is,
00:13:00.560 he's saying, but he's not saying that this was really terrible legislation.
00:13:06.960 They screwed up. And so now what he's saying is he's going to turn a blind eye to significant
00:13:12.560 portions of this legislation in order to try to keep Google at the table, in order to make sure
00:13:18.480 that news links are still carried. You know, he would be better off just saying, look, Canada,
00:13:24.480 we screwed up. We got this wrong. We're going to scrap the legislation and we're going to start
00:13:28.160 all over again, which is what so many legal experts, media experts, and journalists, including
00:13:34.320 the Globe and Mail, are calling for. They're asking for this legislation to be scrapped altogether
00:13:38.640 and to be started all over again, which, which I'll add, when conservatives form government,
00:13:43.840 we will absolutely be scrapping this piece of legislation and starting from scratch because
00:13:47.520 it is an absolute disaster. You know what that also tells me, what the liberals are doing when they
00:13:52.880 go to the backroom deals. I'm just so sensitive to what these liberals are up to all the time
00:13:59.840 that it just rings in my head. I hear carve-outs for certain organizations, for certain preferred
00:14:06.480 news organizations. They will get the carve-outs. Everybody else will starve. That's what it tells me.
00:14:13.200 100%. 100%. And you're absolutely right, Jamie. And I'll just highlight for our audience again,
00:14:18.000 like to show the two-faced, you know, two-facedness of this government, you know, on the one hand,
00:14:24.080 the ministry is saying, well, this is about, you know, ethnic media and indigenous media and protecting
00:14:28.800 those small outlets. On the other hand, again, he is very much pumping up the big three broadcasters
00:14:35.520 and very much turning away those smaller guys. And, and not just the smaller outlets, but the
00:14:41.840 innovative outlets, the outlets that are established online, who were able to anticipate what was going
00:14:47.440 to come. They knew the world was shifting and they changed course and they became online and they also
00:14:54.080 became subscription-based. And those media companies have been doing very well. Now with the government
00:15:00.000 intervening, they are, what they're doing is they're actually, they're distorting the marketplace.
00:15:06.320 And what they're going to do then is they're going to rescue those three big broadcasters
00:15:10.640 in exchange for actually causing extreme detriment or harm to those innovative news outlets that really
00:15:18.480 have been anticipatory all along, incredibly creative, incredibly innovative, and who offer the voices
00:15:24.320 that Canadians really deserve to hear. And at that point, why would the big news organizations
00:15:30.160 that are getting a special carve out from government and the protection from big government, at the same
00:15:36.000 time, seeing barriers to competition introduced that keep the, the smaller players at bay and far enough
00:15:43.440 away from, from eating away at their profits or even having to compete. So at that point, why would
00:15:49.040 you bite the hand that feeds you? Why would you have objective journalism at that point? You would just
00:15:54.880 give out government talking points because we don't want any barriers reduced to allow the free market to
00:16:00.480 take hold and smaller organizations to eat into the big three or the comfort news organizations. This is a
00:16:07.840 terrible, terrible situation Canada has itself in. Yeah, again, you're absolutely right. And I think this is
00:16:15.280 a big problem, right? So you already have the CDC, which was these $1.2 billion per year by the federal
00:16:20.720 government, which of course is taxpayer money. You have, you know, Bell Rogers and other large outlets
00:16:26.320 that are receiving, you know, $600 million in, in Canadian, you know, government bailout money or the media
00:16:33.440 fund. And then now on top of that, you have built the 18, which is supposed to create a fund of about,
00:16:39.200 you know, anywhere from, you know, $175 to $350 million. Again, if you're, if, if you're an outlet
00:16:48.160 that is dependent on government funding, are you really going to be objective? Are you really going
00:16:54.560 to be independent? Are you really going to be able to establish yourself according to journalistic
00:17:00.320 standards that have been set by many of these outlets? I would argue, and many Canadians would
00:17:05.440 argue that, that, that, that just won't be possible. And so what happens then is it sends the perception
00:17:11.600 to the Canadian public that news outlets are just simply, you know, the, the, the puppets, I guess,
00:17:17.760 of the government and, and really then trust starts to disintegrate. And when trust starts to
00:17:22.960 disintegrate, then people are no longer accessing the stories that need to be accessed or, or believing the
00:17:29.760 things that are told to them. And it really, it really harms democracy and it sends us into chaos
00:17:34.240 as a country. So the solution is ultimately to, to allow news outlets to, to function independent of
00:17:41.600 government and supported by the Canadian public. And I, I read a really interesting offering just
00:17:48.080 within the last 24 hours. And that was from, you know, the McDonnell-Laurie Institute. And one of the
00:17:52.960 things that they had suggested was why not actually turn it over to the Canadian people? In other words,
00:17:59.360 what they were offering was allow for Canadians to subscribe to the news outlets of their choice
00:18:06.240 and then allow them to submit those receipts as along with their taxes at the end of the year
00:18:11.440 and to receive a 100% rebate. So essentially then the money is still getting to the news outlets,
00:18:18.960 but it's the Canadian people who are determining the type of news that they want to watch or read. And so
00:18:25.040 they're determining the outlets that should be supported, which takes the government out of
00:18:29.040 the equation. And I think restores independence back to journalism.
00:18:31.920 Not how a liberal thinks. No, no, you can't leave these types of decisions up to ordinary people. They
00:18:38.000 might hurt themselves if they have to make decisions for themselves. Big government needs to make these
00:18:43.040 decisions and tell people what they're going to watch, show them what they're going to listen to. And that's
00:18:47.840 it. They will decide who the arbiter of truth is. And otherwise, the people just keep pushing it
00:18:53.680 uphill. Don't worry about it. Don't make a decision. You'll just get yourselves in trouble. That's what
00:18:58.480 this is coming to. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. This really is about the state maintaining control
00:19:05.360 and being able to make sure that the message that is out there for the Canadian public to consume
00:19:10.320 is in fact approved by the Liberal Party of Canada. All right, Rachel Thomas, we've gone a bit over
00:19:15.760 time, but I love talking to you. There's so many more questions I could ask. I don't know. Everything
00:19:20.560 just seems broken with this government. They can't seem to get anything right. It's mind-boggling how
00:19:25.920 they can fail so much and spend so much, but get so little accomplished. 100%. 100%. But you know
00:19:33.360 what, Jamie? I think we have a huge opportunity to fight on behalf of Canadians, and we're going to
00:19:36.480 continue to do that. All right. The guests always get the final word. I don't know if you want that to
00:19:40.720 be it, but the floor is yours. That's it. Oh, that is it. All right. Rachel Thomas, the one and only.
00:19:45.360 Thank you so much for carving. I begged and pleaded to get her on, and she answered my pleas.
00:19:50.320 She came on to talk about this very important topic. So thank you, Rachel. I appreciate your time,
00:19:54.800 and I'll let you get back with your day. Thank you so, so much. Rachel Thomas,
00:19:59.040 Member of Parliament for Lethbridge, Alberta, also the heritage critic for the Conservative Party of
00:20:02.880 Canada. Also, thank you for your time. We appreciate that you like, comment, subscribe, and share
00:20:07.920 this program. We have so many barriers in our midst right now with this government clamping down. We ask that
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00:20:27.840 remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's The Blueprint.