Justice for Nova Scotian Families
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
161.20654
Summary
In this episode, Conservative MP Shannon Stubbs joins us to discuss the lack of a public inquiry into Canada's worst mass shooting in its history in the province of Nova Scotia, and why we need to push back against the Liberal agenda.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. It's Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your host
00:00:06.320
Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, for the likes of Brock. Thank you very much once
00:00:10.440
again for joining us. Before we get into a very important topic, we're going to talk about the
00:00:15.160
public inquiry into Canada's worst mass shooting in its history with our critic Shannon Stubbs,
00:00:21.640
Member of Parliament for Lakeland. She's also the public safety critic, as I mentioned. We need you
00:00:26.960
to help us push back against the ever-moving Liberal agenda. So what that means is, if you
00:00:32.420
can't watch the whole episode today on a platform like Facebook, you can download it, listen to it
00:00:37.800
later, tell your friends about it. It's available on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play,
00:00:42.620
Spotify, you name it, it's out there. So we appreciate that. And this way, we can all start
00:00:47.640
to move into areas and maybe access voters that might be open to the Conservative message, but
00:00:52.980
might not be getting that because the mainstream media is focusing on one side and one side only.
00:00:59.220
So we need your help for that. So because of that, because of the important topics we
00:01:03.880
cover here in Parliament, we're going to bring in Shannon Stubbs here. Shannon, come on in.
00:01:09.800
Hi, Jamie. Thanks for having me. I'm here in my kitchen near Two Hills, Alberta on the farm,
00:01:15.020
and actually beautiful weather for November. Crazy.
00:01:17.360
Well, it is snowing in Ottawa today. So it's a bit of a change in pace. Usually it's snowing in
00:01:24.600
Alberta. Well, yes, I know. Yeah, the suffering of those in Ottawa. So onto a more serious topic,
00:01:33.060
because you are the public safety critic, and I do appreciate your time here. So about six months
00:01:37.940
ago, Canada experienced one of, well, the worst mass shooting in its history in the beautiful
00:01:44.360
province of Nova Scotia. And I think it was clear after it happened and kind of the stories in the
00:01:53.040
media that started to come out afterwards that we needed a bigger, Canadians, Nova Scotians needed a
00:01:58.900
bigger view into what had actually transpired through the whole process and where things could
00:02:05.800
move forward. And this seemed to point in all directions to a public inquiry, but that's not what
00:02:12.200
the Trudeau liberals originally said they would go forward with in this circumstance.
00:02:18.460
Yeah, that's exactly right, Jamie. I think it's important to recall that the calls for a public
00:02:25.700
inquiry, particularly from the family members of victims and from the communities who were most
00:02:30.640
directly impacted were immediate. And it makes sense on the face of it. Obviously, the worst mass
00:02:36.540
murder in Canadian history would merit, I would think a public inquiry just being as it is. But of course,
00:02:42.960
then the other information that was coming out with regards to the firearms that the murderer used and
00:02:52.440
other aspects, it became clear that there are real answers that all Canadians need to hear and get at
00:03:02.100
about how this tragedy transpired. However, the minister, Bill Blair, the minister of public safety,
00:03:12.020
he originally said that there should only be an internal review. And families and communities there
00:03:19.860
immediately responded and said, no, you know, we need to have a full airing of all of the information so
00:03:25.760
that we can get real answers that everybody deserves. But he made them protest and plead and beg for months,
00:03:35.100
Jamie. So imagine going through an unimaginable loss, anguish and pain and grief and confusion,
00:03:45.960
like most people can never really imagine never really conceive of. And that minister forced these
00:03:53.720
families and those community members to protest to have to take to the streets to also get politically
00:04:00.640
involved to try to get the minister to do the right thing. And I just think, frankly, that that's
00:04:07.120
unconscionable. And but they did it. And to their credit, finally, just I don't know, a week ago or two
00:04:17.100
weeks ago, finally, the minister announced that the public inquiry will be launched with the
00:04:25.140
appointment of the last commissioner. But overall, it's, it's been almost seven months. And, you know,
00:04:33.780
it was three months when, when they said they were going to do this, it was three months after
00:04:39.380
the shooting. And then they said they were going to do an inquiry. But then one of the former
00:04:44.420
commissioners said, well, she didn't have the time to actually do that. And so there's just been delay
00:04:49.320
after delay and the minister dragging and dithering on, on actually doing what the families and the
00:04:54.700
communities are calling for. Well, if my memory is correct, I believe the minister at the time of
00:05:00.280
making the announcement of the public review, not the inquiry, the original review, which sent shockwaves
00:05:06.700
throughout the province of Nova Scotia, it turned out later that if again, my memory is correct,
00:05:12.360
the minister hadn't actually spoken to a member of his Atlantic caucus on the best path forward in
00:05:17.920
this situation. Yes, I heard the same thing. I don't know for sure. But it became very clear that
00:05:25.840
if he was actually listening to anybody in Nova Scotia, including members of his own team, he
00:05:32.520
wouldn't have made that decision for the review in the first place. But really, I think the credit
00:05:38.220
belongs to the families and the relatives of the victims. And, and their community members who
00:05:44.780
rallied around them together to to ask for this public inquiry, that is so that is needed so direly.
00:05:51.020
Um, the but I here's what I'm I'm worried about, you know, now the minister sort of wants to parade
00:05:57.600
and peacock about the fact that he has called this public inquiry, but of course, it's still in very
00:06:02.980
early stages, it will be, you know, probably weeks, maybe even months before testimony actually is
00:06:11.120
heard. I believe they're aiming for a report in 2022. And so Jamie, there's another aspect of this,
00:06:19.280
which we have been pushing the minister on families now want to know exactly why the decision was made
00:06:26.080
in the first place to only do a review. And they want included in the terms of reference for the
00:06:31.480
public inquiry, all of the decision making all of the processes and all of the factors that that
00:06:38.560
happened between the wrong decision to only have a review and also to finally get to calling a public
00:06:46.880
inquiry, the families have together said, all of these delays further victimize them. And they feel
00:06:54.560
like both governments acted with secrecy and not in the best interests of the families, those are their
00:07:00.080
words. And they say that in order to ensure a meaningful inquiry, and to, to ensure that future
00:07:09.520
processes like this are actually transparent, and, and meaningful and accountable, that the terms of
00:07:17.520
reference of this inquiry must include all of those decision making all those factors and all of that
00:07:23.200
evidence related to the initial decision, just to have a review and then to move to the public inquiry.
00:07:28.240
So most recently, we've been pushing the minister on exactly that on getting him to honor
00:07:34.640
the the most recent request of the families to include all of that in the public inquiry.
00:07:40.880
Now, Jamie, it won't surprise you. He hit back and said he alleged that this was just questions we were
00:07:46.960
asking for political advantage. But I can tell you and I can tell you this firsthand because I have,
00:07:53.920
if he had spoken to any relative or family member of those victims, he would know that we we as conservatives
00:08:00.800
and I not asking questions for our party, not asking questions for us individually, we are directly being
00:08:09.280
the voice of family members who he's ignoring, and that they themselves have asked for all of this
00:08:14.320
information so that they can get answers that they serve. Now, of course, and no doubt in anyone's mind,
00:08:19.280
this was extremely tragic and horrific event and needs to be dealt with. That's why we're asking for these answers.
00:08:25.520
But shortly after the shooting, that's when the Prime Minister and Minister Blair came out with the
00:08:32.080
decision to to ban a whole whack of firearms that that were used in a lot of cases and actually all
00:08:39.600
of the cases within the sport shooting and hunting community. However, what we as an opposition have
00:08:46.000
been calling for for years now is the fact that this the shooter obtained those firearms that were used in this
00:08:53.840
tragedy illegally, many of which were smuggled across the United States Canada border. And that's something
00:09:00.880
we've been calling for for years to tighten up the that border so that these illegal firearms or illegal
00:09:07.920
drugs or anything else that should not be entering our country stops. And this is something the liberals
00:09:14.080
failed to do. So they came up with this next program, which will actually do nothing to stop the
00:09:20.160
the the the the the the, you know, the disgusting shootings that are happening.
00:09:25.120
That that's exactly right. Are you know, at least ever since you and I have both been elected in 2015,
00:09:33.360
our colleagues and our party have been consistently calling for the government to focus on where the
00:09:40.240
problem is, which is actually illegal importations and up through the border and illegal smuggling and gun
00:09:47.520
trading often, often precipitated by organized crime. And I would suggest that not only has our
00:09:54.080
party been calling for that for the past five years, but I think we have always been calling for that in
00:09:58.480
every election and every debate over this issue, every time it comes up, because the priority has to be
00:10:04.880
cracking down on criminals, while protecting and balancing the rights and freedoms of law abiding
00:10:11.120
innocent Canadians and honoring victims of crime. And I know you probably could speak to this more
00:10:18.400
personally. But I know that since 2015, shootings have increased in Toronto exponentially. And the police
00:10:27.120
chief there says the vast majority of them are related to illegal firearms trading and gang activity.
00:10:34.320
So what is mind boggling is that now you see the public safety minister, he started to talk about
00:10:40.240
that, like he's saying those words. But I don't know about you and all your viewers, Jamie, what boggles
00:10:45.920
my mind is the part where they've been in power for half a decade. And so I sort of feel like, yeah, thanks for,
00:10:52.800
you know, thanks for saying the right things at the 11th hour. But where is the real action that they
00:11:01.200
should have taken actions that we proposed right for dedicated CBSA plus other law enforcement concerted
00:11:11.200
efforts to crack down on border smuggling of the of illegal firearms, to really crack down on organized
00:11:19.440
crime and on great gang activity, and said they're not doing that they're doing what liberals always do,
00:11:25.600
which is, you know, creating a bureaucracy, which will go after highly vetted law abiding,
00:11:34.000
responsible, innocent Canadians, instead of where instead of where the attention and the resources
00:11:40.240
need to be to actually have hope of preventing these kinds of tragedies in the future.
00:11:48.000
As I've said many times on this program, and we've had Glenn Motz and others here to talk about it is,
00:11:52.640
is what the liberals are doing is basically providing us a false sense of security for
00:11:56.800
Canadians. You're not actually stopping the shootings that, as you mentioned, are largely
00:12:02.000
happening within the gang community that needs to stop. But the problem is they're still getting
00:12:08.320
their firearms illegally. Meanwhile, the innocent firearms owners, the law abiding firearms owners
00:12:14.240
that might use their firearms to go hunt or to sport shoot, they're the ones that are going to be
00:12:19.920
punished because they follow the law. And they will do what the government tells them to do because
00:12:25.440
they are law abiding, but actually not stopping the problem.
00:12:31.920
Right. And you're not actually solving anything.
00:12:38.080
You're not writing down the people who don't give a rep about the laws and the rules in the first
00:12:41.840
And they call themselves progressive, but they're not actually progressing towards anything. It's just a
00:12:46.160
whole bunch of new government employees and still the problems will continue because they're going
00:12:54.560
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, Jamie, there are some family members of the victims of the Nova Scotia
00:13:02.480
shooting who have spoken out about that, who said that they were shocked at what they perceived to be
00:13:12.480
the Prime Minister and the Minister using that tragedy and that devastation to their lives and the murder of
00:13:21.440
their loved ones to bring in that OIC, which you'll remember, and we should probably remind all your folks
00:13:30.080
here that they did outside of Parliament being able to operate in its full scope. Remember, we were basically in the
00:13:37.520
the glorified COVID committee, which the, you know, the Prime Minister pretended was actually
00:13:42.160
Parliament but wasn't, where opposition members were stripped of their powers, where we didn't
00:13:48.400
have the same ability for debates. They didn't even bring in, they haven't even had a debate in Parliament
00:13:53.600
about this issue. And it's heartbreaking to hear family members of those victims say, hold on a second,
00:14:02.160
you've used this tragedy to bring in this draconian measure, which won't target even the things we
00:14:11.040
already know about the problems and about what led to this, to this mass murder. Yet, on the other hand,
00:14:19.520
have dragged your heels for months and months and months on doing what was blindingly obvious and the
00:14:24.560
just thing to do in the first place, which was to have a full public inquiry.
00:14:27.760
Since we are talking about the border, and I love your passion on this topic. Let's talk about the
00:14:34.320
number of, I guess, fairly wealthy people who are able to cross the border without
00:14:40.960
quarantining for that 14 days. Meanwhile, we are seeing other restrictions on people who are trying
00:14:47.040
to get their family members across the border, who are trying to deal with this situation. But yet,
00:14:51.600
apparently, if you are well connected, you're able to bounce back and forth, no problems.
00:14:56.640
Yeah, yeah, this has been crazy. And you know what, I guess, I guess, like, as conservatives,
00:15:02.880
we might not say the words I'm about to say very often, but thank goodness for the media. And actually,
00:15:08.400
it was a it's a CBC investigative reporter who actually allowed Canadians to know for the first
00:15:14.160
time that this, this kind of thing is happening, which I think has been shocking. So you, you and all
00:15:20.160
the folks joining in with us have probably seen, there's been information coming out that's between
00:15:25.200
August and October, there are instances of different American, literally billionaire,
00:15:32.480
business executives, who have managed to get these exemptions from quarantining. And in some cases,
00:15:40.720
not only did they just go to, you know, a certain designated work site for a photo op, for example,
00:15:47.120
but in other cases, actually, where they traveled from province to province, three different provinces,
00:15:53.280
went around the country, most recently, an example where they came in to, to force their workers to
00:15:58.720
adopt a contract to put the pressure on them to adopt a new contract. And meanwhile, you know, I'm sure in
00:16:06.720
your office, like in mine, and all of our colleagues, you know, we we get concerns and worry, one after
00:16:14.000
another of everyday working Canadians, either about their relatives, or their small businesses, or
00:16:20.640
whatever travel they might be doing, where they face these restrictions. And some crazy things we've
00:16:27.040
heard recently, Jamie, like people who they accidentally take a wrong turn, and they end up
00:16:35.040
just on the border, they get told by the US officials, no problem, turn around, go home,
00:16:40.240
they don't even get out of the car, they come back and get told by CBSA, they need to go home in
00:16:45.440
quarantine for 14 days. Like, that's bananas, you know, or I know of examples where two pilots, they were
00:16:55.520
at a conference, they came back here, and the individual decision at the border was one was declared
00:17:03.520
essential, one was not. So one came back cool beans, the other one had to quarantine for 14 days.
00:17:12.320
There's example after example after example like this. And what's confusing and bizarre is all the
00:17:17.840
different, all the different answers, right. So originally on that, that original story, that first
00:17:23.040
one that broke about this American billionaire executive who came in and got the free pass,
00:17:27.280
that the Minister of Public Safety blamed CBSA officials, he said, you know, his words were that
00:17:34.880
that was a mistake, and those people should not have been permitted entry. So of course, naturally,
00:17:39.280
these Conservatives answered, well, what exact directives or guidelines did you subsequently
00:17:43.920
give them to clarify, if you say that this is a mistake? He, of course, wouldn't answer that question.
00:17:48.960
Yet, I followed up on a couple of these other instances more recently, and Minister Champagne,
00:17:54.560
a foreign affairs minister, answered the questions. Well, his answer was that this isn't an individual
00:18:01.280
case by case thing, that these exemptions are granted with consultation between, you know, three
00:18:06.800
different, three different organizations, provinces and territories, the department.
00:18:14.480
So what is it? You know, is it a case by case individual basis happening at the border?
00:18:19.760
Is it this much more comprehensive process that the other minister has outlined? No wonder Canadians
00:18:27.520
just have no idea what to expect when they go to the border. And I guess we should also remember in
00:18:35.360
the very beginning of all of this, you'll recall, Jamie, like our party asked the Liberals to take action
00:18:39.840
on the border in response to COVID in January. And they dithered and delayed and did nothing until
00:18:46.000
about March. Well, now, Canadians are just quite clearly asking for some certainty and some clarity.
00:18:54.160
And it makes no sense whatsoever, all of this evidence coming out that, you know, Canadians in
00:19:00.160
their own daily lives or with their families or with their small businesses, they face all these
00:19:04.240
restrictions, they face all this uncertainty. Yet seems like if you're a US billionaire, you know,
00:19:09.920
the rules don't apply to you. Well, Shannon, we only have a few minutes left. And traditionally,
00:19:15.440
when you have been on this program in your role, your previous role as natural resources critic,
00:19:19.920
we always talk about pipelines and how your province of Alberta, the beautiful province of Alberta is
00:19:24.240
doing. Maybe just give us a quick snapshot. I know you could go on for hours about this topic,
00:19:28.880
but just a quick update would be fantastic. Well, I think that Albertans know that the Liberals are
00:19:41.840
continuing to go down their anti Alberta, anti energy, anti private sector path. I think that
00:19:51.600
it is even more concerning, of course, because they have their allies in the NDP and the Greens and the
00:19:57.280
block supporting them on these on their anti energy legislation and policies. You've probably seen
00:20:06.640
there recently was a big purchase, sort of a conglomeration between Synovus and Husky
00:20:14.240
that is going to lead it looks so far like more job losses in in my area, and in Rosemary Falk's area.
00:20:22.960
And I think the the Liberals might try to make that seem like it's like it shows health in the industry,
00:20:32.160
but what it actually shows, in my view, is part of the damage of the policies and the bad policies,
00:20:41.440
the anti energy legislation that's been brought forward, exacerbating and aggravating global factors.
00:20:47.120
And what's actually starting to happen is the thing that you and I talked about a lot when we worked
00:20:51.360
together on the natural resources committee and which we're concerned about, which is an increasing
00:20:57.920
consolidation conglomeration in the industry, and an increasing oligarchy of just only the very
00:21:06.080
biggest companies that can manage to survive. And so, as always, and like you and I used to fight
00:21:12.400
together on that committee and talk about, you know, I am very concerned that we'll keep fighting
00:21:17.600
for small and medium sized contractors for individual workers, for for especially the companies
00:21:24.880
in the service supply contracting industry, which is the lifeblood of the Canadian oil and gas sector.
00:21:33.920
And so yeah, I know that even though I'm no longer in that spot, we conservatives are still going to be
00:21:39.360
fighting for oil and gas workers in Alberta, right across the country. And I think there's probably
00:21:45.520
even more anti energy slash fantasy land policy coming down the pipe, so to speak, that we're going to
00:21:52.960
have to fight and to stand up against. And I know that we will.
00:21:56.400
I know we only have a short minute. I do need to build on what you said. And I know I'm being told that
00:22:00.640
time is pretty much out. But but that's what big government likes, right? They like only a few handful of
00:22:06.560
big organizations, it's easy for them. And in return, they pair, they they bring in barriers
00:22:11.600
to competition for the smaller and medium, medium sized companies, so they can't get a foothold in
00:22:16.560
the marketplace. And and all is good in government land. Meanwhile, there's no competition in the
00:22:21.360
industry. The cost for the service or the product goes up, the quality goes down, and and everyday people
00:22:30.000
suffer as a result. And it will happen in the oil and gas industry if the Trudeau Liberals continue to
00:22:35.600
to run Ottawa. Yeah, exactly right. And and Jamie, yeah, we can't. We don't have time to get into
00:22:42.160
this. But the the massive amounts of deficit that they're racking up their spending. I mean,
00:22:48.400
I don't know who they expect to pay the bills when when this all comes crashing down. And frankly,
00:22:54.560
in the economy, it was the oil and gas sector. So they better figure out something in a hurry,
00:23:00.880
because they're the damage that they're doing. Is I think it's going to be destructive to the
00:23:06.880
country to future generations. And I know you and I used to talk about this a lot, like where the
00:23:11.520
heck do they think the jobs, and then all the tax dollars that provide the programs and services
00:23:17.040
people value come from? Well, that's the fear they want to ensure that there are the jobs the left
00:23:23.600
approves of, right? These green jobs are heavily subsidized and only are a result of the massive
00:23:29.920
amount of money that is shoveled into them. Look at the green energy policy here in Ontario that the
00:23:35.120
Ontario Liberals brought in and and made Ontario absolutely uncompetitive in the global marketplace
00:23:41.120
when you're talking about the price of electricity. So thank you.
00:23:44.000
And all those people, all those people in those, you would always tell me about all those, especially
00:23:49.920
rural Ontarians who have to choose between heating and eating. I mean, it's, it's unbelievable, you know,
00:23:56.800
to cause that kind of energy poverty for people who are vulnerable, low income, but seniors and fixed
00:24:03.360
incomes and rural people. And it's a scary thing to think they might try to do that to the whole country.
00:24:09.040
Absolutely. I can't tell you how many food banks opened up or saw a massive increase in people
00:24:15.280
walking through because people, you're right, were choosing between eating or heating or their
00:24:20.880
medicine or their electricity. It was a totally horrible, horrible program. And the Trudeau Liberals
00:24:28.480
do need to be stopped. But I do need to let you go because Question Period is coming up. If you're able to
00:24:32.880
stick around, check out our leaders page, Aaron O'Toole. He will have Question Period on that platform.
00:24:39.200
Facebook, probably the most common. Be sure to listen in. We're going to be really pressing
00:24:43.360
the Liberals. Once again, Shannon Stubbs, Member of Parliament for Lakeland in the beautiful province
00:24:47.520
of Alberta, public safety critic. Thank you so much. Once again, I could talk to you for hours,
00:24:51.920
and I do appreciate your passion on this. Hey, thanks, Jamie. Likewise.
00:24:55.440
And remember, we will be back with new content next Tuesday, 1.30pm Eastern Time. In the meantime,
00:25:01.120
if you can't watch us here today, please download us, CastBox, Google Play,
00:25:05.200
iTunes, Spotify, you name it, it's out there. And also, like, comment, subscribe, share this program,
00:25:11.680
help us push back against the ever-moving liberal agenda. Thank you so much for joining us. Remember,
00:25:16.640
low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's the blueprints.