The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - Justin Trudeau fails Canadian workers

00:00:00.000 Coming up on The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast, we'll be talking to three gentlemen who are on the front benches of the Trans Mountain Pipeline issue. Join us.

00:00:12.220 You're listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.

00:00:17.640 Is the Prime Minister actually saying that taxpayers should be on the hook when he breaks the law?

00:00:23.480 Yeah!

00:00:23.900 What is it going to take for the Prime Minister to have any respect for any laws in this country that may curb his out-of-control behaviour?

00:00:39.180 All these deficits leading to nothing but burying Canadians in taxes.

00:00:49.300 And now, here's your host, Tony Clement.

00:00:51.580 Welcome to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.

00:00:55.600 I'm your host, Tony Clement, Member of Parliament for Paris Saint-Muskoka, and I've got with me three gentlemen who are on the front benches of the Trans Mountain Pipeline issue.

00:01:05.900 With me today, the Honourable Ed Fast, who's the MP for Abbotsford, and as well the Environment and Climate Change Shadow Minister and Critic.

00:01:16.000 We've got Jamie Schmiel, the MP for Halliburton, he's the Deputy Natural Resources Critic Shadow, and Tom Kamich from Calgary Shepherd Riding, who is the Deputy Finance Minister Critic.

00:01:28.880 And, of course, I'm your host again, Tony Clement.

00:01:31.820 We're going to talk about Trans Mountain, which has a number of different aspects to it.

00:01:35.300 Let me set the table here.

00:01:37.100 Of course, we've seen a precipitous decline in Canadian energy investment during the Trudeau years, the biggest decline in 70 years, a loss of $80 billion and 110,000 energy jobs.

00:01:52.220 We'll get into that a little bit as well, especially from Tom Kamich's perspective as a Calgary MP.

00:01:57.580 But the breaking news today is, based on a previous podcast we had, we talked about the summer jobs program.

00:02:06.900 Maybe listeners will be aware of that and how the Liberals have applied a values test for the recipients of the money to hire summer students across the country.

00:02:16.980 A number of conservative MPs and leader Andrew Scheer have expressed concerns about that.

00:02:21.220 Now we learn today that some of the money from the summer jobs program is actually going to advocacy organizations like Dogwood Initiative that are committed ideologically and from their perspective, political perspective, to shutting down Canada's resource sectors.

00:02:39.300 Well, Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister claims to be trying to build public support for this pipeline, perhaps he can explain to the House why his government gave a grant to an environmental lobby group that specifically used those funds to hire an activist to protest against the Trans Mountain project.

00:02:58.140 So here's a case, again, of the Liberals applying their values test for the people they dislike and then ignoring being nonpartisan when it comes to their own fellow travelers.

00:03:11.060 So a lot to talk about today. I'm going to dive right into it and welcome Ed Fast to the program.

00:03:15.760 Ed, great to have you on the program.

00:03:17.400 Good to be on your show, Tony.

00:03:18.740 Tell us, set the table. You're the shadow minister when it comes to the environment and climate change.

00:03:23.640 From your perspective as an Abbotsford MP, a B.C. Member of Parliament, as well as your critic responsibilities, tell us what is so important about the indication of the Trans Mountain Expansion Project and the Liberal basically mucking up the issue.

00:03:40.420 Well, Canada's natural resources play a very significant role in our national prosperity.

00:03:46.240 There are millions of jobs that depend on our resource sector.

00:03:50.640 And in order for Canada to benefit the most from its resources, we need to be able to get those resources to market.

00:03:57.840 When it comes to oil and gas, which we have a lot of, we need pipelines to get that product to foreign markets.

00:04:06.020 Because right now we can't get them to foreign markets because we don't have the pipelines in place to Tidewater.

00:04:11.900 And what that means is that we sell mostly to the North American marketplace, which means we leave billions of dollars a year on the table that Canadians don't benefit from because we can't get the maximum dollar for those resources.

00:04:26.760 So this is a question not only of the oil and gas sector, would it be safe to say that this is a question for Canada's economic activity, the jobs that are created and how governments pay for things like health care and education through taxes?

00:04:44.920 Yes, yes, and yes. Our national prosperity and also the taxation that is derived from it and that allows governments to provide the key services that Canadians expect all depend on us getting our resources to market, getting the maximum dollar for those resources.

00:05:02.180 If you ask the average Canadian out there, they expect us to extract our resources and get them to market in the most sustainable, environmentally responsible way.

00:05:12.780 And we as a Conservative Party strongly believe that every single project that gets built to get our resources to market needs to pass a high environmental standard.

00:05:23.940 When we're talking about oil and gas, those standards are the highest in the world, bar none.

00:05:29.360 So Canada is very good at what it does in extracting oil and gas, getting that product to market.

00:05:35.660 The problem is there are some people in Canada for whom the only process to get these pipelines approved is a no.

00:05:43.700 They will never accept any process that will allow our product to get shipped to market at the best price possible and with the highest environmental standards applied to them.

00:05:54.320 Ed, before we talk to Tom and Jamie a little bit, tell us from a perspective as a British Columbian, because there's obviously been a huge debate in British Columbia, are British Columbians seeing the value of the project and seeing that we can properly balance environmental concerns with economic expansion and activity?

00:06:13.020 Absolutely. In fact, you now see that all of the polls that are being conducted show that a very significant majority of British Columbians now support the Trans Mountain pipeline being built.

00:06:26.740 And that makes sense. I'm from the city of Abbotsford. That pipeline runs right through our community.

00:06:32.320 Our city has signed a benefits agreement with Kinder Morgan, which is going to provide significant benefits to our community.

00:06:41.640 There are many, there are dozens of First Nations along the route of this pipeline that are also benefiting because they themselves have signed benefits agreements with Kinder Morgan.

00:06:51.400 Thank you, Ed. And let's bring it over to Tom Kamich, the MP for Calgary Shepard, who has critic and shadow responsibilities on finance.

00:07:01.180 Tom, welcome to the program as well.

00:07:03.120 Thanks, Tony.

00:07:04.140 Again, love to get a little bit of the local perspective. Obviously, you're kind of at ground zero being a Calgary MP.

00:07:11.400 What's the type of debate that's going on in Calgary and Alberta right now about this project?

00:07:17.220 So for everybody in Alberta, especially in Calgary, we have all the office towers where people are working, what we call the white collar workers, who are the engineers, they're the technicians, they're the designers.

00:07:27.620 All of them are pretty much out of work or they're not getting enough work, so they can't work a full week.

00:07:32.880 And basically, since the recession, I'd say 2014 and us electing an NDP provincial government, things have been really bad.

00:07:40.120 And for the first time since 2005, since I could possibly remember, you see people begging on the street.

00:07:47.000 You see young men and women who used to be working in the energy sector, designing pipelines, designing facilities.

00:07:53.980 You see them on street corners. You see them in suburban communities like mine.

00:07:57.620 I represent a deep, deep southeast part of the city where the new hospital is.

00:08:01.160 You find people there literally begging on corners because they can't make ends meet.

00:08:05.980 Lots of people have lost their homes, lost their jobs. They've gotten divorced. Suicide rate has gone up.

00:08:10.780 It's been a huge impact on communities, like the social impact of not getting our product to market is a really big deal back home.

00:08:18.180 And one other thing I'll mention is we saw Northern Gateway get canceled.

00:08:21.360 We saw Energy East get canceled because of the Trudeau Liberals.

00:08:26.320 Pacific Northwest LNG project was canceled.

00:08:29.640 This is a really big deal. This is the last attempt.

00:08:32.060 Apart from Keystone XL, which is still wrapped up in a lot of regulatory red tape down south in court cases, we depend on this.

00:08:38.860 This is it. If May 31st doesn't come around, we get clear indication from the government of what it's going to do.

00:08:45.620 They got us into this mess. What are they going to do?

00:08:47.580 We're facing a situation where a lot of Alberta-based workers and Alberta-based companies that hire them are going to simply start letting people go this summer.

00:08:54.920 So I think that's an important couple of points that you've made, that Kinder Morgan has set a drop-dead date of May 31st, that either some of these issues get resolved to their satisfaction, that they have comfort that the project can go ahead, or they just don't want to throw good money after bad and continue the project.

00:09:10.960 So this project is either going to proceed or not proceed by May 31st.

00:09:15.960 And I think the second point that you raised that's really important is that this shows a pattern of behavior by the Trudeau government that likes to espouse that we can, that they are in favor of both environmental design and economic activity, that we can be an environmental country and be economically successful.

00:09:34.900 We know their policies on the environment, and quite frankly, their lack of success on that.

00:09:40.440 But without this pipeline going through, they have shown nothing in terms of actually getting the job done to get a product to market, which they themselves claim they are in favor of.

00:09:51.380 So I think one of the things I like to talk about, everybody keeps focusing on like Shell and the really big companies.

00:09:57.300 But the biggest impact will be on the medium-sized oil and gas, the homegrown, you know, up-by-the-bootstraps type of companies that were little maybe 10, 15 years ago.

00:10:06.300 They're quite big producers now.

00:10:07.920 They only hire Albertans or they hire other Canadians who have moved to Alberta to make a living.

00:10:12.520 We spent a generation trying to convince people it's worth coming to Alberta to work.

00:10:17.060 Sorry, Ed, but B.C. is beautiful.

00:10:19.620 We want people to stop in Calgary.

00:10:21.520 We want them to stop in Edmonton in our smaller communities to come and work here.

00:10:25.320 It's worth your time, and a generation of people now can't find work.

00:10:29.900 And it's these small, medium-sized oil and gas companies which are looking at, you know, the end of the tunnel, and there's no light there.

00:10:37.260 They can't just move to another jurisdiction to keep sustaining their operations.

00:10:41.680 They're looking at basically cutting off a lot of people locally.

00:10:44.400 The homegrown industry is going to die if they can't move their product to market.

00:10:48.220 Are people starting to lose faith with Justin Trudeau's promises on this file?

00:10:51.460 Well, absolutely.

00:10:52.140 We're Calgary.

00:10:52.700 We're Alberta.

00:10:53.100 You know, we're pretty conservative generally.

00:10:54.560 But some of the biggest rallies that have been held, promoting pipelines, promoting energy, the responsible use of our energy, how ethical and sustainable it is,

00:11:03.860 it's attracted thousands of people to Edmonton legislature and at the government building in Calgary.

00:11:09.940 So it's a big deal, and there's a lot more people that I see now.

00:11:13.080 People I haven't seen involved in politics in the past 15 years are coming out now, and they're saying, this has an impact on me.

00:11:19.580 And they're from all over the country.

00:11:21.240 They've come to Calgary.

00:11:22.620 They're Albertans now.

00:11:23.960 And they're proud of the work that they do, and they just feel disrespected.

00:11:27.580 Tom Kamich, our Member of Parliament for Calgary Shepherd, thank you for your intervention on this.

00:11:32.900 And you're listening to the Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.

00:11:35.940 I'm going to bring in Jamie Schmael now, the MP for Halliburton and the Deputy Critic for Natural Resources.

00:11:41.660 Now, Jamie, you're not a British Columbian.

00:11:44.800 You're not an Albertan.

00:11:45.980 You're an Ontarian.

00:11:47.360 Tell us a little bit about the impact of these pipeline decisions or non-decisions when it comes to the broader economy and even from an Ontario perspective.

00:11:55.480 Yeah, I think many Canadians that are just tuning into this believe it's just an Alberta problem, and it really isn't, as you mentioned, Tony.

00:12:02.620 So when the Liberals decided to change the rules halfway through the process and Energy East Pipeline was cancelled,

00:12:10.420 General Electric in Peterborough, a company that has been in that city since the 1800s, it actually was named the Electric City, shut its doors.

00:12:18.320 They had a contract to build motors for the Energy East Pipeline.

00:12:21.140 That's 300 jobs out, 300 families without a paycheck now gone.

00:12:26.100 Poof, vaporized, yeah.

00:12:26.540 And, you know, it just wasn't the one Energy East contract being cancelled.

00:12:31.040 It also had to be that Ontario is an extremely uncompetitive province to do business in.

00:12:35.060 Electricity is killing them.

00:12:36.820 So that was just a straw that broke the camel's back.

00:12:39.600 But if you look wider than that, you also see about investment within Canada.

00:12:44.140 We in Ontario have a lot of mining, and through the Toronto Stock Exchange,

00:12:47.820 we have a lot of dollars being in and out of that.

00:12:52.180 But we also have the Ring of Fire, but it all comes together.

00:12:55.960 Ring of Fire is a mining project.

00:12:57.060 Yeah, that's correct.

00:12:57.720 Yes, sorry for your listeners.

00:13:00.080 Massive resources in that area.

00:13:02.620 But if this pipeline gets cancelled, the last available opportunity that we have right now to get our oil to proper market,

00:13:12.320 I think investment within every sector will take a hit.

00:13:17.160 People will not want to park their money here, will not see opportunity, will not see a process,

00:13:21.540 which I don't know if you talked about Bill C-69, a bill that reduces any certainty in an application process for a massive project like mining or oil and gas.

00:13:32.940 They won't see any investment here.

00:13:36.320 It will slow down the economy.

00:13:38.780 And, you know, if this pipeline, again, doesn't get built, as Parambidi, the head of the Chamber of Commerce of Canada, said,

00:13:45.120 the United States will be the biggest recipient of Canadian foreign aid in the form of massively discounted oil.

00:13:51.780 That's a very good point.

00:13:53.260 And certainly the point that you're making generally is that this is a national issue.

00:13:58.960 This is something, obviously, that is big in Alberta politics, big in B.C. politics, but it's a national issue as well.

00:14:06.860 So I think that that's a very critical point to make.

00:14:10.120 From your perspective as Deputy Natural Resources Critic, just unpack once more briefly the course of conduct of the Trudeau government,

00:14:20.220 that this is not just a one-off about whether Trans Mountain goes ahead or not.

00:14:24.320 You're seeing a whole course of conduct by the Trudeau government that is not benefiting jobs, opportunity, resource sector,

00:14:33.420 the taxes that accrue to the government so they can pay for social services.

00:14:38.000 Tell us a little bit about that.

00:14:39.340 You're absolutely right.

00:14:40.320 When I talk to people in the mining industry or oil and gas, the biggest thing they say is we are not competitive.

00:14:46.500 And if we do bid on a process or start the process, we're not even sure if it will go forward.

00:14:51.500 So why put good money after bad?

00:14:54.480 So that is quite concerning.

00:14:56.400 When you're looking at the future of Canada, we used to be a safe place to do business,

00:15:00.760 and now people are taking a second look.

00:15:03.280 And that should be concerning to everybody.

00:15:05.720 And let's not forget how we got here.

00:15:08.220 The Prime Minister has dropped the ball on this file right from day one.

00:15:12.140 When the Premier of B.C. was sworn in, the Prime Minister should have took a bunch of his key ministers down

00:15:19.420 and met with the Premier and explained to him how this was going to go forward.

00:15:24.440 And the problem is he's left it.

00:15:26.580 He just kind of crossed his fingers and said, well, I hope it's going to get done.

00:15:30.020 It will get done.

00:15:30.660 I say it's going to get done.

00:15:31.880 But he's done nothing to advance that ball.

00:15:34.120 And it's just snowballed after that.

00:15:35.820 And now every side has dug in, and now we are right where we are here.

00:15:41.000 We are stuck.

00:15:42.880 And with a lack of leadership at the federal level, it's going to be – I hope the project moves forward,

00:15:49.180 but I think there are doubts that it will.

00:15:51.400 And that's very sad for people right across the Canada.

00:15:53.960 I'm here with three of my colleagues, the Honourable Ed Fast, the MP for Abbotsford,

00:15:59.160 Tom Kamich, the MP for Calgary Shepherd, and Jamie Schmael, the MP for Halliburton.

00:16:04.160 And we're talking Trans Mountain Project.

00:16:06.300 But I do have to come back to the summer jobs program.

00:16:08.840 I really want to get your take on this.

00:16:11.480 So we've – on the podcast, we've had the discussion with our colleagues.

00:16:16.320 Kelly Block, for instance, came and talked about her perspective on the summer jobs program.

00:16:21.240 And we were told that, no, no, you know, that you have to adhere to certain values,

00:16:26.340 and other people may not apply.

00:16:27.620 But we're here to just protect the charter.

00:16:29.900 That was the liberal point of view on the summer jobs program.

00:16:32.920 Now, just breaking news is that the Dogwood Initiative,

00:16:37.180 which is an advocacy organization dedicated to shutting down Canada's resource sector,

00:16:42.900 got money from the summer jobs program.

00:16:44.900 Ed, what's your reaction to that?

00:16:46.820 Well, I am shocked.

00:16:48.560 The Canada summer jobs program has become a bigger scandal than any of us expected.

00:16:54.520 First, the prime minister imposed his values test on applicants,

00:16:58.340 and many applicants who are unable to get funding this year under that program.

00:17:02.920 Now we find out that the same program has been authorized to give funding

00:17:08.140 to an organization that actually organizes against the Kinder Morgan,

00:17:14.560 the Trans Mountain Pipeline.

00:17:15.980 Can you imagine that?

00:17:17.280 It's a disgrace.

00:17:18.140 Incredible, yeah.

00:17:18.760 And unfortunately, the prime minister, when he's out in British Columbia,

00:17:23.480 he pretends that he's the great champion of the environment.

00:17:28.260 When he's in Alberta or in Saskatchewan, he pretends that he's the great champion of the energy sector.

00:17:34.440 He wants to be all things to all people, but in fact, there's a hidden motive here,

00:17:38.360 and he has publicly said that he wants to see our oil sands phased out.

00:17:44.300 Can you imagine the prime minister of Canada, who's supposed to be promoting our energy sector,

00:17:48.420 saying he wants to phase out our oil sands,

00:17:50.940 and then he funds an organization that is lobbying against the Kinder Morgan Pipeline?

00:17:56.060 Well, and in fact, when he spoke to the French National Assembly,

00:18:00.000 when he isn't speaking to Canadians, that exactly was Prime Minister Trudeau's message,

00:18:03.300 we're phasing out.

00:18:04.220 But when he's speaking to Canadians, he doesn't have that message.

00:18:07.280 So, Tom Kamich, I know a lot of nice organizations and good organizations get summer job funding,

00:18:13.600 but is this starting to become a slush fund for the Liberal Party of Canada?

00:18:16.920 Well, that's what it's starting to look like.

00:18:18.300 When I see that the Dogwood Initiative, of all groups,

00:18:21.180 a group well-known for radical behavior in opposing any type of development,

00:18:27.180 and it's not just oil and gas they oppose, they oppose the forestry industry as well.

00:18:30.480 And I remember my time working in the public service in the forestry division in Alberta,

00:18:35.720 we talk about the Dogwood Initiative.

00:18:37.680 So this is not an unknown group.

00:18:39.200 This is a group that Liberal MPs in British Columbia have claimed their support for themselves.

00:18:44.620 And now they're giving them money?

00:18:46.080 Like, whose side are you on?

00:18:47.760 That's the perfect question to ask the Prime Minister.

00:18:49.940 And it's part of the hidden agenda to kind of pick up on what Ed was saying.

00:18:52.460 It is the hidden agenda.

00:18:53.700 It is talking good game, talking about phasing out the oil sands and then, you know, trying to dial it back,

00:19:00.260 and then going to France, of all places, to say it again, and then telling us,

00:19:04.040 oh, we're on your side, we'll get the pipeline built, don't worry.

00:19:06.340 And that's why Albertans feel disrespected.

00:19:08.460 And it does look like a slush fund.

00:19:09.820 It's not the first time this has happened, and that they've used government money for hyper-partisan purposes.

00:19:16.140 And this is, I think their endgame is they want the company.

00:19:18.640 They want Kinder Morgan to pull out May 31st.

00:19:20.720 And they're going to be using groups like the Dogwood Initiative to funnel our taxpayer dollars

00:19:24.820 so they can get it done without having to get their hands dirty.

00:19:28.320 Well, Jamie, I'm going to give you 10 seconds.

00:19:31.500 Are you shocked about this as well?

00:19:33.200 I mean, you've had groups in your riding that weren't able to apply. 0.97

00:19:37.380 Extremely hypocritical.

00:19:38.740 You know, they take away groups that they don't agree with, but bring it to groups they do. 0.97

00:19:42.920 And it's just absolutely a disgrace how they handled this file.

00:19:45.880 Well, this too shall play out for our listeners, of course.

00:19:49.280 Canada's official opposition and leader, Andrew Scheer, will, I'm sure, be raising this issue, amongst many others.

00:19:55.580 And we will keep on when it comes to the Trans Mountain Pipeline and its importance for the Canadian economy.

00:20:01.800 I want to thank individually our guests, the Honourable Ed Fast, Jamie Schmael, Tom Kamich,

00:20:06.660 for being part of the Blueprint Canada's Conservative Podcast.

00:20:10.740 Thank you, gentlemen.

00:20:11.700 You're welcome.

00:20:12.040 Join us next week for another podcast.

00:20:16.260 Thank you for listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.

00:20:20.660 To find more episodes, interviews, and in-depth discussions of politics in Canada,

00:20:25.980 search for The Blueprint on iTunes or visit podcast.conservative.ca.

00:20:31.440 See you then.

00:20:37.800 See you then.

00:20:39.360 Bye-bye.

00:20:40.060 Bye-bye.

00:20:41.520 Bye-bye.

00:20:42.120 Bye-bye.

00:20:43.480 Bye-bye.

00:20:48.580 Bye-bye.

00:20:59.540 Bye-bye.

00:21:00.040 Bye-bye.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - April 27, 2018

Justin Trudeau fails Canadian workers

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