The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - Liberals Break the Bank!

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your

00:00:12.100 host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Court, the Lakes Brock, with new

00:00:15.580 content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. On today's show, we are talking

00:00:21.460 about the Bank of Canada governor. He says the inflation rate is impacted by the carbon tax.

00:00:27.040 Who knew? Good of him to catch up. This and much, much more. We bring on Philip Lawrence,

00:00:32.020 the Member of Parliament for North Humberland, Peterborough South, also the Deputy Finance

00:00:36.060 Critic. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here, Jamie.

00:00:39.180 And my geographical next-door neighbour. Absolutely. Yeah, we boarded right in Durham,

00:00:42.940 I believe. We do, absolutely. So good of you to come on. We have a few clips from you in committee

00:00:48.900 we'll get to in just a few moments. You, I guess, would cross-examine the Bank of Canada governor,

00:00:56.260 Tiff Macklin, the other day. You were kind of grilling him on a couple of things. The impacts

00:01:01.600 of the carbon tax on Canadians in general, and his answer was quite telling. We already knew the

00:01:08.360 answer. But the other part was how much the carbon tax actually contributes to inflation.

00:01:12.900 Thanks very much, Jamie. Yeah, we actually, I started the grilling or the discussion with

00:01:17.380 Governor of Bank Canada, Tiff Macklin. Actually, way back in March of 2022, he actually, in response

00:01:24.560 to my letters, in response to a question, sent the Finance Committee a letter saying that the

00:01:29.900 carbon tax was directly attributable for 0.4 of inflation. That doesn't sound like a huge number

00:01:35.960 in itself. But when you look at where we are with inflation, that represents, at the time,

00:01:40.080 more than 10% of the inflation. Meaning that if you want it to reduce inflation by 10% tomorrow,

00:01:47.140 you could simply scrap the tax, scrap the carbon tax, which is pretty remarkable, right?

00:01:53.760 If you thought about, it's not quite proportional, but there is definitely a correlation. If I went

00:01:58.640 to you, Jamie, and said, hey, I can drop your mortgage payment by 10%, or I could drop the cost

00:02:02.780 of food for 10%, that's a pretty big deal. And so he came back before the Finance Committee,

00:02:07.260 actually, the Liberals and the NDP and even some journalists had gotten it wrong. Because what

00:02:11.820 he had said is that, like I said, 10% of inflation was directly attributable to the carbon tax. But he

00:02:19.260 also said that the increase in the carbon tax related to about another 2% or 3% increase in

00:02:25.440 inflation. And so the media and the NDP ran with it saying, the carbon tax is responsible for 2%.

00:02:31.320 That's not what Mr. Macklin said. And he was good enough to clarify. And he actually even upped the

00:02:36.780 number a little bit. So he went from 0.4 to 0.6, which equates to about 16% of inflation.

00:02:42.760 Or as some of your viewers might know, Jamie, there's a target rate of inflation. There's a

00:02:47.520 certain amount of inflation that's healthy, and the target rate is 2%. And so we're sitting at 3.8.

00:02:53.200 What that means is that the carbon tax is responsible for 33% of inflation in excess of target.

00:03:00.020 And so in order to make the economy healthy, it's a real quick, easy move. Remove a third of excessive

00:03:06.780 or difficult or unhealthy inflation simply by scrapping the tax.

00:03:11.040 And as we pointed out many times, many, many times, the carbon tax affects people every step

00:03:17.400 of the way. You've heard our leader talk about it. You tax the farmer, you tax the trucker, you tax

00:03:22.360 the people who buy the food. And there's a lot more in between about all these people who have to raise

00:03:28.040 prices in order to cover their costs going to the government.

00:03:33.380 Right.

00:03:33.980 Yet the government, just last week, we get news from their own environmental commissioner who says

00:03:39.460 they're way off hitting their environmental target. So at that point, so their plan's not working.

00:03:46.040 Then they have carve-outs for some Canadians and not others.

00:03:51.320 So, and they're missing the truck. So the plan's clearly not working.

00:03:55.420 Right.

00:03:56.080 It's time to axe the tax.

00:03:57.940 Absolutely. And you brought up the exemption that currently exists that the Prime Minister announced.

00:04:05.640 And obviously, it's unfair to the majority of Canadians. That exemption only affects 3%.

00:04:10.420 And the only reason why that exemption was given was because of political science, not environmental

00:04:15.480 science. His Atlantic caucus was ready to walk out. And in fact, one member of the Atlantic caucus

00:04:21.060 had the gall during a vote to give the Canadian finger to the Canadian people. Just completely

00:04:27.720 misguided. And it's a government completely out of touch. And you also talked about 234 a little bit,

00:04:34.080 which is the exemption, which is a private member's bill, which is to give farmers an exemption from

00:04:39.200 the carbon tax. Of course, I was good. I was very pleased to be one of the initiators or originators

00:04:45.200 in Bill 216 that then was carried on with Ben Lobb's great Bill 234. And so this actually

00:04:52.700 is another carve-out. So it's going to be another carve-out from the carbon tax. The Minister of

00:04:58.060 Environment, Stephen Gilboa, said he would not allow it or he would resign if there was another

00:05:03.020 carve-out. So this, another carve-out, looks like it's likely to pass the Senate. And that

00:05:07.560 begs the question, will Stephen Gilboa resign?

00:05:09.860 Well, let's hope. Maybe he can go back to his orange jumpsuit. But, you know, we get record

00:05:17.160 numbers of people, news article after news article, of a record number of people, including those

00:05:22.080 first-time users of a food bank, coupled with people who have, you know, decent jobs, trying

00:05:29.140 to make a living, that are being forced to the food bank because the carbon tax is driving up the

00:05:34.540 price of absolutely everything, making it harder for people to live, right? The misery is real

00:05:39.360 here.

00:05:40.180 100%, Jamie. And you see that really across our economy. So Canada is struggling through

00:05:46.420 a productivity crisis. We are simply not creating enough jobs. We are not contributing enough to

00:05:52.100 the GDP. We are in the worst economy, Jamie. And this is no word of a lie. And you can read

00:05:57.360 Philip Cross, of course, former head of Stats Canada. He said this. We are in the worst economy

00:06:02.060 since the Great Depression, right? It's hidden a little bit, because it's hidden by the fact

00:06:07.460 that we've had tremendous immigration growth, which increases GDP. The more people they are,

00:06:12.240 the more stuff they produce. But the telling stat is GDP per person, which is actually declining.

00:06:18.880 We are getting poorer per person as a nation every single day. And the carbon tax is another

00:06:25.680 inhibitor for productivity. Because not only does the carbon tax make more things more expensive,

00:06:31.220 it stops businesses from ever starting. Because people look at it, they do their calculation,

00:06:36.220 they're rational human beings, and they go, am I going to make a profit here or am I going to lose

00:06:40.420 money? The carbon tax, in many ways, is tipping it the other way. So they're stopping businesses

00:06:46.160 from occurring, from ever being formed, starting, stopping jobs, having people leave this country

00:06:51.580 to go to jurisdictions like the United States where there is no carbon tax. We've seen that other

00:06:56.560 countries can fight the climate crisis without use of the carbon tax. This carbon tax is punitive,

00:07:04.300 it's hurting the most vulnerable, and causing all sorts of economic chaos.

00:07:09.580 That's actually a very good point you just raised, because businesses, you know, existing businesses,

00:07:14.980 they try to pass on the cost to the consumer, right? So the final person buying it has to pay

00:07:21.080 all the other costs up the food chain. For new businesses, it's even harder, because you have not

00:07:26.400 only rules, regulations, and red tape that stifle most small businesses. That's why you're seeing

00:07:30.740 fewer and fewer small businesses start up, which were the lifeblood of small towns, that mine and

00:07:36.060 yours and others. Absolutely. Coupled with the fact that with these barriers to competition,

00:07:42.560 you can only raise the price so much before the market cannot bear any more price increases. And at

00:07:50.640 that point, any existing business may lay off staff, might look to automation more, might reduce hours.

00:07:58.800 Yeah. And if you're manufacturing something, you potentially look for somewhere else to manufacture.

00:08:04.160 So you're going to see potential pain all throughout the chain, because people are trying, businesses are

00:08:10.800 trying to still stay in business. But the prices can only go so far, right? This is the whole crux of

00:08:18.480 the matter. Yeah, you are. So part of the inflationary crisis is the demand side. So when you print

00:08:27.440 billions and billions of dollars, you create a lot of dollars chasing goods. In this case,

00:08:34.080 too few goods. But the other side of it, the side that's not talked about as much, and I think it

00:08:38.080 should be, is the supply side. When, if an economy can produce an abundance of goods and services,

00:08:46.960 we get to equilibrium and we get rid of inflation. What's happening right now in the Canadian economy

00:08:52.640 is a lack of productivity. We are right now on a trajectory to be worst in the OECD when it comes to

00:08:58.480 productivity. So the less we produce as a society, the more, and with all those dollars, and also

00:09:04.720 with all of our newcomers, which are great, and I love the diversity it adds to our community and

00:09:08.560 our country, and we need immigration. But when we, when we are not giving them,

00:09:13.040 giving newcomers a place to live, we have no capacity to employ them. What type of friendship 1.00

00:09:20.000 are we really, really showing people around the world? We welcome them here and then say,

00:09:24.240 oh, so sorry, you don't have a place to live. You don't have a job. We're creating a very difficult

00:09:29.840 situation in our country. We need to put, in my opinion, Jamie, we need to put every single policy

00:09:35.280 that we put forward through the lens of productivity. Is this making our country more productive?

00:09:40.000 Is this going to add to prosperity? Because we are in a crisis of productivity, and it's not just me

00:09:44.720 that said that. I've had numerous individuals, esteemed folks from Bill Morneau, to John Manley,

00:09:51.040 to Tiff Macklin, to David Dodge, who've all agreed with me that we need to be more productive

00:09:56.480 as an economy, because growth is the answer in many, in many areas. As we've said many times

00:10:02.080 in the show, abundance equals peace, right? Shortage equals conflict, right? You can, the laws of supply

00:10:08.400 and demand are near absolute, right? Like, people are nicer to each other when there's lots of it,

00:10:13.280 right? When there's, when there's not that competition for a limited supply of goods or services. Now,

00:10:20.800 as you mentioned, too, too many dollars chasing too few goods, all of that happened. They expanded the

00:10:25.920 money supply faster than the actual economy was starting to grow. It's those on the lower end

00:10:34.320 that seem to get forgotten. And it's quite surprising the absolute lack of compassion

00:10:39.920 the Liberals have for those who are struggling. And so, I want to queue up cut one here. I want to

00:10:45.200 get to the Governor of the Bank of Canada, Tiff Macklin, talking about those people who are hurting the

00:10:51.840 most because of the inflationary crisis caused by this government. So, let's queue up cut one,

00:10:58.320 and we'll get your feedback. Let's play cut one. Sure. First of all, it is the most vulnerable

00:11:02.480 members of society that are suffering the most from high inflation. They are feeling the brunt of

00:11:07.840 affordability more than everybody else. You know, they can't, they can't just move down market.

00:11:13.760 They're already at the bottom of the market. You know, much of their spending is already

00:11:19.680 on necessities. You can't cut back on that. And, you know, that's why it is so important that we

00:11:25.440 get inflation down. Inflation is a tax that disproportionately affects the most vulnerable

00:11:33.600 members of society. So, one way to add, or sorry, one way to lower the price of something is to add

00:11:41.920 supply, right? Right. If we've stifled each other in this country because of these horrible liberal

00:11:46.640 policies, our energy industry can't add more because it is handcuffed. 100%. Our farmers can't grow

00:11:53.840 more or produce more because they are handcuffed, right? Right. Like, the carbon tax on the drying grains is

00:11:59.760 stifling their ability to invest. The environment minister, I can't remember how long ago, kind of

00:12:06.000 coming up with this brilliant idea that we'd reduce fertilizer use by 30%. Obviously, he walked

00:12:11.440 that back. But these signals to the marketplace that pain is coming doesn't help when investors

00:12:18.400 or those looking to produce things are looking for a path forward. No one's going to invest dollars

00:12:24.640 to potentially lose them because government's going to squeeze it from them. 0.95

00:12:28.480 Yeah, absolutely, Jimmy. And Tiff Macklin, in other testimony, wanted him to say

00:12:34.080 that fiscal policy, which is the spending of the government, is working at counter purposes with

00:12:38.560 the monetary policy, which means that liberal spending is driving up the cost of everything.

00:12:44.720 And he's driving it up through inflation. And you heard Mr. Governor Macklin say that inflation

00:12:51.120 is a tax on the most vulnerable. And originally, it was actually Milton Friedman who said that many years

00:12:55.840 ago, but Pierre Polyev, our leader, said that two years ago and was ridiculed for it. When

00:13:03.200 Chrystia and Tiff and all the smart people were saying, we're going to be in deflation. Well,

00:13:08.240 guess who was right? Mr. Polyev. And for him to say that is actually an incredible acknowledgement.

00:13:13.360 And let me translate a couple of things, what Tiff Macklin said in real people's speech. So he said,

00:13:18.800 the most vulnerable can't go down market. What that means is the most vulnerable, if their costs go

00:13:25.680 up, they can't afford to eat. Let's put it, and those are the real terms, right? They can't afford

00:13:31.120 to feed their children. They can't afford to pay rent for their children to have somewhere to live. 0.97

00:13:36.000 That's what he means by the most vulnerable can't go down market. It means people can't eat,

00:13:41.200 Jamie. And that's a real impact on inflation. It is a real, real phenomenon. It has real impact

00:13:48.160 from coast to coast to coast in this country. We've all seen and read the stories about

00:13:52.960 people moving into their parents' basements and now parents moving into their kids' basements

00:13:56.640 because they can't figure out a place to live because the price of real estate is through the

00:14:01.680 roof because of this government. Food prices, energy prices, all the necessities of life are growing

00:14:09.920 at a pace not matched by wage growth. And not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars that

00:14:16.240 have left this country in investment in the oil and gas sector. These are real serious problems that

00:14:22.160 this government does not have a plan for. I should say maybe they do. Maybe it's another government

00:14:26.240 program where they can cause the problem, then expect to be carried on people's shoulder as the savior.

00:14:32.480 Yeah. As I believe it was Winston Churchill said this, Jamie, a nation trying to tax its prosperity

00:14:39.120 is like a man standing in a bucket trying to lift himself up. Well, no nation has ever taxed itself

00:14:45.840 in prosperity. All that you're doing is you're taking assets from the productive side of our

00:14:51.040 of our society and putting them to the unproductive side. Now, government has a lot of great roles,

00:14:55.520 important roles, which includes protecting our community, making sure that we're... Well,

00:15:00.560 the government's failing at that too. They absolutely are. Look at the crime rate. They absolutely are.

00:15:04.560 But it is proven over and over again that when it comes to creating wealth, when it comes to

00:15:10.480 creating prosperity, that will come from the private sector. And so the larger the chunk this

00:15:15.120 government takes and is ever increasing, it is starving our economy of capital. And we are actually

00:15:20.960 right now worst in the OECD when it comes to capital investment. That's really quite scary and quite

00:15:25.920 stark. And I'll try and put it in terms that characterize this accurately. What this means is

00:15:32.320 that Canadian factories, Canadian businesses are not investing in new equipment at nearly the same

00:15:38.640 rate as the United States and, in fact, all OECD countries. So what does that mean? Well, that means

00:15:44.160 our factories have 20-year-old equipment while factories around the world have new equipment. Just imagine

00:15:49.680 driving a 20-year-old car versus a new car, what that would look like, right? You're not going to

00:15:54.480 win that race. We need to have dramatic capital investment to keep competitive, to boost our

00:15:59.520 productivity number. And if the government keeps going in the pockets of you and me and business

00:16:05.040 leaders, guess what? We're going to fall further and further behind, which is going to doom the next

00:16:09.760 generation to actually being the first generation in Canadian history that didn't do as well or better

00:16:14.560 than the previous generation.

00:16:15.200 And when we lose that private investment, when we lose that private capital coming in to create

00:16:20.240 jobs, opportunity, and wealth, it's being replaced by government investment. And we all know that when

00:16:25.360 government does that, look at their green slush fund, we'll get into that on another show probably,

00:16:29.920 you get investment driven by the government agenda. So if you tick this box, you tick that box,

00:16:35.280 you'll get the government grant, which is basically, let's create the application that matches

00:16:39.440 what the government believes. Well, is it exactly the right thing to do? Maybe not. Does it match what the

00:16:45.680 market wants? Probably not because the market would have created it if, if that was the case. You,

00:16:50.800 you have a slowdown in actually innovation when you rely on government to make these decisions,

00:16:59.200 phasing out the private sector and the market, which matches the demand from the consumer.

00:17:04.320 Yeah. An efficient market, which there's no perfectly efficient market, but an efficient market,

00:17:09.680 what it will do is it will, powered by consumer choice, push industry, push business into being the

00:17:16.640 most effective creator of goods and services. When the government puts its hand in there,

00:17:23.120 we're no longer looking at developing the best and the most efficiently made and the cheapest good

00:17:27.920 possible. We're looking at satisfying liberal masters where you get crony capitalism, which is the most nasty

00:17:33.920 of all situations. It may even be worse than socialism because though you're no longer got

00:17:40.000 business owners who are out there trying to impress their consumers, they're trying to impress their

00:17:45.280 liberal masters, right? We saw this in a Rive scam, we saw a little bit of this with SNC-Lavalin affair.

00:17:52.000 These are all troublesome and difficult things that will slow the productivity of our economy,

00:17:57.520 putting the prosperity of Canadians both now and in the future at risk. Let's queue up cut two. This is

00:18:03.200 the Governor of Bank of Canada again, Tiff Macklin, talking about the effects of the carbon tax on

00:18:09.840 the inflation rate. So kind of bringing it all together. Let's play cut two and we'll get your

00:18:15.200 comments. It's about a minute long. Hang with us. One question is, because the carbon tax is going up,

00:18:20.960 right, over time. So one question is, how much are the increases in the carbon tax adding to inflation

00:18:28.640 each year? And that number is about 0.15 percentage points of inflation. And that's the direct impact

00:18:39.840 on those three components. Perfect. Thank you. The second question you asked me was,

00:18:46.400 what would be the effect if the carbon tax, what would be the effect on inflation if the carbon tax was

00:18:52.960 eliminated? And that would create a one-time drop in inflation of 0.6 percentage points. 0.60

00:19:00.320 Okay. So the NDP said that's not very big. Tell us why. Yeah. So Tiff Macklin, as I said,

00:19:07.120 was actually in front of us in 2022. And he said that inflation at that point was 10%. The NDP,

00:19:16.000 the Liberals, and even the media demagogued this incorrectly, they were conflating the impact of

00:19:22.480 the increase in the carbon tax, which is 0.1% with the overall carbon tax. And Governor Macklin said

00:19:29.680 unequivocally that 0.6%, 60 basis points of inflation is directly attributable to the carbon tax.

00:19:36.640 That's not including actually downstream economic impacts we talked about as well. It's also just on

00:19:41.680 fuel as well. It's not talking about other impacts of the carbon tax. So directly attributable to the

00:19:48.160 carbon tax is 0.6 or 60 basis points, which equates to 16% of inflation. So we heard it there.

00:19:55.840 I don't know if anyone's ever experienced this in their life, but it was so out there and the media

00:20:00.960 was misreporting it, the NDP, the Liberals. I was almost starting to question myself, Jamie,

00:20:05.040 did I really have this right? But I had the letter. So I knew that he had said it was 10% of inflation

00:20:09.760 was directly part of the carbon tax. And I was expecting him, hoping him to say, which it was

00:20:14.240 10%. And then he came out and said, no, no, no, Phil, it's actually 16%. Imagine that. You can press a

00:20:20.960 button. The government could press a button tomorrow, eliminate the carbon tax and provide 16%

00:20:27.280 relief to Canadians. That's incredible. Will they do it though? Probably not.

00:20:31.280 No, no. And we need a carbon tax election, right? And, uh, uh, many, one of the many smart things 0.94

00:20:38.720 that Pierre Polyev, our leader has said, uh, leader of the common sense conservatives, uh, is that we

00:20:44.000 should have a carbon tax election. If you remember back in, uh, in 2021, uh, uh, liberal leader,

00:20:51.680 Justin Trudeau, uh, called an election because there was a significant change or whatever he was making

00:20:57.120 up. Uh, so he spent $600 million on a necessary unneeded election. This, this is a much bigger

00:21:03.360 deal. We, we need to have a discussion and we need to have an election to either decide whether

00:21:08.480 the country we're going forward with a quadrupling of the carbon tax at the behest of the NDP,

00:21:14.160 the liberal government, or whether they're going to accept the common sense conservative leaders

00:21:18.640 plan to ax the tax. All right. We have one more clip. Uh, let's queue up cut three,

00:21:23.200 and then we, uh, are running short on time. So we'll have to get out of here, but let's,

00:21:27.120 let's, uh, queue up cut three. We'll, uh, we'll talk about this once it's done. Let's play cut three.

00:21:32.400 If this government continues to spend at a rate of ever growing, um, in 2.5% or beyond,

00:21:38.560 as they've continued to be spent, that we're going to start to put at risk some of our social policies,

00:21:43.520 uh, some of our social benefits, some of the things that Canadians hold dearest if, uh, if,

00:21:48.480 if we don't get our spending under control. I don't like, I certainly don't like the

00:21:52.960 trend where we're on. And I would say, as I said in my remarks, the big game changer here

00:21:58.560 is that interest rates are now higher than growth rates. And that will affect the primary deficit

00:22:04.080 just to grow on itself, as I think Mr. Dodge explained to this group last, uh, week or previously.

00:22:11.120 And so this is what happened in the nineties, is that we were not able to generate enough growth

00:22:16.400 to reduce our deficit. So growth has to come first.

00:22:19.440 Growth has to come first. Growth has to come first. Absolutely. That was Robert Aslan, uh,

00:22:25.040 former, I believe chief of staff for Bill Morneau, um, and now head of the business council of Canada,

00:22:29.760 um, I believe. Um, and, uh, Mr. Aslan had, uh, some great testimony there. So he's a liberal,

00:22:35.120 right? Uh, but he is, uh, he's a common sense liberal that, uh, that gets the fact that we need to have

00:22:41.120 growth in order to have the social program. So you'll hear, uh, and one of the liberal members is famous

00:22:46.480 for saying chop, chop, chop, uh, that the conservatives are going to cut, cut, cut. No,

00:22:50.400 no. In fact, quite the opposite. We need to grow the economy so we can afford to properly fund health

00:22:56.000 care. Do you know, Jamie, that we pay almost as much in health care transfers as we do in interest

00:23:03.120 payments. That's right. So interest payments equate to health care. So we could double health care

00:23:08.400 spending if we hadn't had this liberal government recklessly spending, driving up the deficits,

00:23:14.640 driving up our costs, uh, of borrowing. Uh, so we've got a double sword that they've imposed on us.

00:23:20.400 One is the fact that they've of course put these inflations and deficits and debts, uh, on us. Uh,

00:23:27.120 and, uh, so the deficit of course raises the, the amount of borrowing, inflation rises the cost.

00:23:32.720 And so now we're paying in interest payments almost as much as we're paying in health care transfers.

00:23:37.840 As anyone has ever paid interest before. And I think that's, uh, that's many based on the stats,

00:23:42.720 unfortunately, that are being released. It's basically wasted money making other people rich.

00:23:46.720 Uh, we need to get that under control and only a common sense conservative government will do that. 1.00

00:23:51.440 Philip, we're, we're pretty much out of time. Actually, we've gone a bit over,

00:23:54.880 but the guests always get the last word. So I'll give the floor to you.

00:23:58.000 Thanks very much, Jamie. You know what? There are relatively simple things we can do,

00:24:03.200 like scrapping the carbon tax that can provide relief to Canadians.

00:24:07.200 The people across Canada and my riding of Northumberland, Peterborough South are hurting.

00:24:11.360 We need to do everything we can to make life a little easier for them. And we need, uh,

00:24:15.600 we need that common sense conservative plan led by our common sense conservative leader, Pierre Paulio.

00:24:20.800 Philip Lawrence, member of parliament for Northumberland, Peterborough South,

00:24:24.240 also the deputy finance critic. We thank him for his time. We thank you for yours.

00:24:28.640 Please remember we have new content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern time.

00:24:32.960 Please like, comment, subscribe, and share this program. I know there are eyes and ears not

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00:24:52.800 low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's the blueprint.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - November 15, 2023

Liberals Break the Bank!

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