The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - June 07, 2022


Liberal’s ideological driven gun politics

Topics
gun violence legislation gun violence and drug trafficking
Hosted by
Jamie Schmal
Mentioned
Raquel Dancho Bill C-63 Glenn Motts Justin Trudeau Medicine Hat Cartston Warner Mark Elias Marco Jamie
Parliamentary report on spending Canada has become significantly less affordable

Episode Stats


Length

21 minutes

Words per minute

171.49

Word count

3,687

Sentence count

262

Harmful content

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Bill C-21 is a new piece of legislation that would ban the importation, sale, and transfer of firearms in Canada. Conservative MP Glenn and Conservative Councillor Raquel Lemay join us to discuss the implications of this legislation, and why it is a bad idea.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 We'll be right back.
00:00:30.000 We'll be right back.
00:01:00.000 We'll be right back.
00:01:29.980 We'll be right back.
00:01:31.980 We'll be right back.
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00:01:35.980 We'll be right back.
00:02:05.980 We'll be right back.
00:02:07.980 We'll be right back.
00:02:09.980 We saw an announcement from the Liberals that was not targeting that problem really at all.
00:02:14.640 And that's what's very frustrating for Canadians that want to see meaningful action on gun violence.
00:02:19.440 Yeah, absolutely.
00:02:20.360 So this new ban, if it passes, stops the importation, the sale, the transfer of firearms.
00:02:27.160 And as we were speaking off air, when the last firearms owner dies with a handgun, there should be no legal firearms in Canada.
00:02:36.220 Handgun firearms.
00:02:37.200 Handgun.
00:02:37.800 Handguns, yes, sir.
00:02:38.500 So just to correct, I wasn't a member of the RCMP.
00:02:41.200 I was a member of the Municipal Service.
00:02:42.280 Oh, sorry.
00:02:42.820 Medicine had to be an example.
00:02:43.800 However, I think, as Raquel has said, you know, the rhetoric behind what the Liberals have been trying to do with gun violence in our communities over the last seven years and where they've missed the mark so terribly, it seems like they are catering with language to people who aren't aware of the very strict laws we already have in this country.
00:03:05.240 And as you asked in the first question, the targeting of C-21, of the handgun ban and anything to do with firearms has been focused solely on Canadians law-abiding gun owners who have never been a problem in this country with creating violence.
00:03:23.820 And they have a, what is it, three times less likelihood of committing an offense as a firearms owner than the average citizen in Canada.
00:03:32.200 And so, you know, we have a misguided approach by this government that is focused on the easy, it's lazy government legislation when you can go after those, the low-hanging fruit, if you will, and miss the exact mark where we're after.
00:03:48.520 The criminals don't follow the rules already.
00:03:51.160 They don't follow the law already.
00:03:53.080 And so by targeting people, you know, who are law-abiding, you have missed the mark.
00:03:58.600 And the sad thing about it is we all want improved public safety.
00:04:01.640 We don't want people shooting up our streets and having lives lost.
00:04:06.720 But this isn't going to help.
00:04:08.440 This isn't going to do anything for it.
00:04:10.380 And that's the sad reality.
00:04:11.680 So we know this as conservatives, right?
00:04:13.400 We know that the issue is smuggling at the border.
00:04:16.260 We know that gangs are causing a lot of this increased violence.
00:04:20.140 But if I lived in the city, Raquel, you're not too far from Winnipeg.
00:04:23.360 If I'm in Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto, wherever these shootings are happening, I just want these shootings to end.
00:04:28.380 And I think, is that something we have to really educate about to let people know that it's basically a false sense of security that the government is giving them right now?
00:04:37.620 Certainly. I think we've been effectively communicating that in the media opportunities we've been provided in the last week since the Bill C-21 announcement.
00:04:46.240 I did want to build on something Glenn had said.
00:04:47.900 Those who have an RPAL, which is what you need to own a handgun in this country and other various restricted firearms, are the most vetted people in Canada.
00:04:56.980 They are thoroughly background checked.
00:04:58.620 So I think that that point really needs to be made very, very clear.
00:05:01.820 But to your point, I know in Winnipeg we're seeing rising violence generally and rising violence with firearms or guns.
00:05:10.760 And so I toured the Winnipeg Police Headquarters facilities to find out more about this.
00:05:14.660 They had recently done a half-million-dollar drug bust, a big table full of all the drugs and all the cash,
00:05:19.580 and then a very long table of the firearms they apprehended in this bust.
00:05:24.340 And they're doing these busts almost monthly.
00:05:26.060 It's that bad.
00:05:26.880 And every single one of those handguns were already illegal, not even just prohibited or restricted,
00:05:33.280 but were already illegal models of handguns in Canada.
00:05:35.820 And all of them were smuggled in from the United States.
00:05:38.820 They anticipate some by rail, some by vehicle, and in other parts of the country might be from marine ports of entry.
00:05:45.380 So the police were explaining to me the severity of this and the growing problem.
00:05:49.680 So we need more resources for our hard-working police who put their lives on the line to defend Canadians against gang violence and gun violence.
00:05:57.760 And certainly, obviously, more resources invested in our border security, certainly.
00:06:03.460 You know, and thank you, Raquel.
00:06:04.860 You know, I think building on the resources, we also need legislation.
00:06:10.400 We need the laws that then hold those who commit these offenses to account.
00:06:15.520 And right now, you know, we have Bill C-5, which we talked about off-air ahead of time.
00:06:20.940 You know, and what the Liberals are trying to do with this piece of legislation is on the C-21,
00:06:25.720 now they're saying we're going to get tough on those who smuggle firearms,
00:06:29.220 and, you know, we're going to increase the mandatory maximum from 10 to 14 years.
00:06:35.700 That sounds fantastic.
00:06:37.200 However, at the same time they're doing that, they are lessening the mandatory minimums for the exact same type of offenses
00:06:46.500 and violent offenses with firearms.
00:06:49.620 And so we need a consistent approach across, you know, law enforcement and the legal community to keep our community safe
00:06:57.420 and that those who use firearms in the commission of an offense need or have possession of firearms illegally
00:07:05.320 need to be held to account.
00:07:07.820 And what's interesting is our public safety minister, back a number of years back,
00:07:12.320 I invited Marco out to Medicine Hat.
00:07:14.620 We did a TV Ontario blind date.
00:07:16.820 And I invited him out to Medicine Hat.
00:07:18.980 And, you know, and then he invited me back to his writing.
00:07:22.540 And what was striking, and unfortunately I'd missed the airing on TV Ontario's blind date production,
00:07:28.340 we talked to a mom who had both of her young daughters shot in the playground in gang violence.
00:07:34.480 Thankfully, they didn't die, but they were going to be traumatized for life.
00:07:38.100 And we asked, I asked her, I said, so what can we tell Canadians?
00:07:42.300 As legislators, what do we need to do?
00:07:44.600 And she goes, the criminals that I know that do this sort of stuff that shot my two daughters are not afraid of the police.
00:07:51.840 And why aren't they afraid of the police?
00:07:53.920 Because they have no laws that have any teeth.
00:07:56.620 Criminals who use firearms, and her words were criminals,
00:07:59.480 these people who shoot up our streets need to be held accountable, you know,
00:08:03.620 to a higher degree than someone who doesn't use a firearm.
00:08:07.300 And that's from a mom who had her own, in center Toronto, who had her own daughters shot.
00:08:12.960 I have to build on that point, if I may.
00:08:15.020 So in part of the issue with Bill C-5, and again, some of these firearm offenses
00:08:19.600 that they're eliminating mandatory prison time for is robbery with a firearm,
00:08:24.540 extortion with a firearm, firing a firearm with the intent to injure.
00:08:27.880 That's shooting at someone.
00:08:29.560 Right?
00:08:30.480 It makes no sense.
00:08:31.060 Yeah, we'll no longer have a mandatory prison sentence
00:08:34.000 and have the option to serve house arrest.
00:08:36.700 So now in the instance of the woman that you just mentioned,
00:08:39.580 there may be an opportunity in a similar circumstance
00:08:42.520 where someone has fired a gun at someone in a community that's already vulnerable,
00:08:46.440 and now rather than removing that dangerous individual
00:08:48.480 and putting them in prison where they may be able to receive rehabilitation programming,
00:08:52.760 they may keep them in that community surrounded by those influential gang elements.
00:08:57.800 And to me, that seems like they could further terrorize the community.
00:09:00.780 They may not be able to be rehabilitated.
00:09:02.920 And so to me, that is a serious concern
00:09:05.200 that these vulnerable communities should be concerned about
00:09:08.160 because those dangerous elements will no longer have a mandatory prison time
00:09:11.720 and be mandatory removed from the community.
00:09:14.220 Great points.
00:09:15.340 And I think one of the other things, and I heard you talk about this once before, Raquel,
00:09:19.060 is we need to have a mechanism where we go back to things back when I was a lot younger
00:09:24.880 in my policing career where we had the Bail Reform Act.
00:09:28.080 And if someone committed an offense, they needed to show justice why they should be released.
00:09:34.160 And there was conditions.
00:09:35.580 You know, you won't commit another offense.
00:09:37.480 You know, you're going to attend court.
00:09:38.460 There's some, you know, some criteria in the criminal code.
00:09:43.060 It seems to me over the last 10, 12 years that there's a significant slide
00:09:47.680 in people who continue to commit offenses while they are out on bail,
00:09:52.860 awaiting, you know, court proceedings in the very first offense they were there in the first place for.
00:09:58.060 And so they continue to re-offend while they even haven't been dealt with for the first offense.
00:10:02.780 We need to fix that.
00:10:04.600 Like, we need to fix those who continue to be out on our streets after they've been convicted of a violent offense.
00:10:11.140 Period.
00:10:11.840 Well, I think it's also important to remind those that aren't familiar with the gun laws and our firearms laws
00:10:17.580 is that basically if you are, you have an RPAL, you own a handgun,
00:10:23.660 there are basically three places you can go.
00:10:25.900 Home, the range, or the gunsmith.
00:10:29.200 And you have to apply for a permit to transport.
00:10:31.660 That's correct.
00:10:32.100 During a certain part of the day.
00:10:34.380 So this is highly regulated.
00:10:36.080 Not only that, your name is run through the police data bank every single day.
00:10:40.780 So as it was explained to me, it's basically like being on parole.
00:10:44.160 If you own, if you aren't licensed.
00:10:46.080 Only stricter.
00:10:46.880 Only stricter.
00:10:47.580 And when you have a restricted firearm, and correct me if I'm wrong, Glenn,
00:10:50.160 but you have to get it approved by the chief firearms officer.
00:10:52.500 So the police actually know where every single legally owned restricted firearm is in the country.
00:10:57.740 So it is very heavily controlled.
00:10:59.240 And quite frankly, conservatives agree that gun laws should be very strict.
00:11:03.220 Absolutely.
00:11:03.740 Only the most vetted, responsible, law-abiding citizens should ever even be near a firearm.
00:11:08.500 And that should remain.
00:11:09.940 But then when you have Bill C-21 coming in and doing this,
00:11:12.440 I mean, there's so many repercussions on our Olympic sports shooting community,
00:11:15.900 on the entire community of sports shooters.
00:11:17.640 There are also impacts on hunters and guides and a number of individuals who work in rural and remote areas
00:11:25.520 who have special handgun permits to carry their handguns in the event a wild, dangerous animal sneaks up on them,
00:11:31.940 for example, and they don't have time to bring out their long gun.
00:11:34.120 So that's also not covered in Bill C-21, not acknowledged.
00:11:38.520 So there are discussions to be had about this, and none of those, the Liberals are not allowing any of those to happen.
00:11:44.560 So we're quite concerned about that and that this will not tackle a very serious issue that we need to be making progress on,
00:11:51.440 that every single year that Justin Trudeau has been Prime Minister has worsened.
00:11:55.300 And violence in Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Edmonton has gotten worse year after year.
00:12:00.900 So their approach is failing. This is their so-called answer, and yet it does not target the problem.
00:12:06.160 Kind of like their housing policy.
00:12:07.460 There you go.
00:12:08.300 You know, we talk about, the Liberals talk a lot about their red flag laws and how...
00:12:14.940 Yeah, I wanted to bring that out.
00:12:16.060 That was my next question.
00:12:16.580 Bill C-21, this is going to solve a problem that, you know, we're going to fix this,
00:12:20.840 that those who might, you know, have some violent tendencies or domestic violence or something along those lines
00:12:26.860 are going to be in a position where we can identify them and remove their license and remove their firearms.
00:12:33.520 What they don't, what they purposefully ignore is that the law, the criminal code, and the Firearms Act currently,
00:12:43.220 and has for decades, allowed the police and the courts to remove firearms.
00:12:49.000 I mean, I have done it personally over the years.
00:12:51.200 I know, you know, when I was a street supervisor, we did it on a regular basis.
00:12:54.760 If we had a violent situation, a domestic violence situation, and the individual might have firearms,
00:13:00.580 we could remove those for safekeeping and then take it to the courts and let them decide based on the disposition of that case.
00:13:07.280 Those things already exist in law.
00:13:09.200 That's right.
00:13:09.480 So for the Liberals to, you know, stand on a soapbox and say,
00:13:13.200 we're going to solve this problem because we're going to eliminate some risk to the public,
00:13:17.000 and we've said all along, Conservatives very much want to ensure that those who have the firearms,
00:13:22.320 it's a privilege to have a firearm, have a PEL and an RPEL,
00:13:25.740 and nobody complains about the higher standard we have to live up to.
00:13:31.560 But don't tell the Canadian public that we're going to solve this problem by doing this
00:13:36.480 when that same issue is already addressed in law currently.
00:13:40.960 And that's the part that's so confusing.
00:13:43.140 Like, you know, how do you educate the Canadian public on firearms issues?
00:13:48.060 Like, how do you properly educate them?
00:13:49.740 And it's whoever has the loudest voice, I suppose, seems to.
00:13:54.000 And the Liberals right now, this is all for political gain.
00:13:57.660 You said it right at the front end.
00:13:58.820 This is a political posturing by a government that, you know,
00:14:02.500 is intent on an ideology not based in evidence.
00:14:08.040 Well, there's a few articles coming out today, specifically in the National Post,
00:14:12.240 that talked about how Justin Trudeau keeps campaigning like he is in the United States
00:14:15.920 on issues that have nothing to do with Canada, that are totally different here in Canada.
00:14:20.520 But yet he keeps trying, he's trying to keep the United States model alive for some reason here in Canada.
00:14:27.420 And really, I'm not sure why.
00:14:28.980 I know why.
00:14:29.400 It's for political gain.
00:14:30.340 But it's not really doing the debate any good.
00:14:32.480 I know, I agree.
00:14:33.760 And I agree with what Glenn had said earlier as well about the red flag laws. 0.88
00:14:36.880 All parties agree we need strict rules and laws and police powers to support domestic violence victims and victims of abuse.
00:14:43.320 Those exist now.
00:14:44.400 We welcome the discussion of how we can tighten those up.
00:14:47.560 But again, that's just a very small part of Bill C-21.
00:14:51.240 And we are having those discussions.
00:14:52.420 But, yeah, Mr. Trudeau, you know, he's really changed his rhetoric from when he was running for leader.
00:14:58.500 You'll probably remember this, when he was saying, oh, guns are an important part of Canadian heritage and our culture
00:15:03.320 and we'll respect gun owners and all of this.
00:15:06.000 I thought, like, what a great line at the time, you know.
00:15:08.220 And now, where has that gone?
00:15:09.720 Absolutely nowhere.
00:15:11.080 And he clearly was lying or I'm not sure what's going on.
00:15:14.620 But now, obviously, it's consistently, year over year, attacking a very important part of Canadian heritage
00:15:20.640 that feels like, why are you going after us?
00:15:23.140 We're the law-abiding citizens.
00:15:24.720 The problems are over there in Toronto.
00:15:26.520 Focus your resources on there.
00:15:27.780 And one point I'd like to make on that is that the buyback for the OIC ban that we hear so much about.
00:15:34.620 The Order and Council?
00:15:35.280 Yes, the Order and Council.
00:15:36.640 That is now two years old.
00:15:38.160 They have no idea how they're going to implement this thing.
00:15:40.180 But we know it's going to be in the billions of dollars to implement.
00:15:42.800 This new handgun measure, like, will be very costly as well.
00:15:46.140 They've already spent $920 million on gun control since they've been in office.
00:15:51.420 Gun violence keeps going up.
00:15:53.120 Imagine if all of those resources had been put into police guns and gangs units to fight gangs
00:15:57.980 or into border agents and better border security technology.
00:16:01.500 How much of an influence could we have had on reducing gun violence?
00:16:04.740 And then the last thing I'll say about that,
00:16:06.420 if we can invest as well in organizations, grassroots, anti-gang organizations in the city of Toronto,
00:16:12.560 like the one-by-one movement.
00:16:14.680 Marcel's a wonderful man.
00:16:15.780 Marcel Wilson, ex-hard criminal, did his time, rehabilitated himself,
00:16:20.560 and now saves young people, primarily young men, from a life of gangs and crime.
00:16:24.920 These are the types of people we need to be empowering.
00:16:27.180 These are the organizations that will have a long-term impact on saving lives,
00:16:30.460 not just the gang members themselves that can be pulled out of that life,
00:16:33.620 but all those that they negatively impact.
00:16:35.140 Those are areas that we can invest in to actually make meaningful reductions
00:16:38.740 in gang violence and gun violence.
00:16:40.680 Jamie, you asked the question about why is it that it seems that the Prime Minister
00:16:45.040 is modeling himself after American politics, right?
00:16:50.160 He has used consistently, and in 2017, I can't remember exactly what the tragic event was,
00:16:58.260 but he has used events primarily in the United States as a backdrop, shamelessly as a backdrop,
00:17:06.120 to his own legislations.
00:17:07.860 And then, well, unfortunately in Canada, we've had some of our own tragedies,
00:17:12.720 and it's always on the backs of those that they try to score political points.
00:17:17.480 And it's not about a political point, it's about keeping Canadians safe.
00:17:21.720 Conservatives have been consistent in this message.
00:17:23.720 We need to ensure that those who commit offenses with firearms are held accountable, period.
00:17:33.740 And if we do that in the most efficient and effective way possible,
00:17:38.540 we will improve public safety.
00:17:40.520 Talking about it, going after licensed firearm owners is not the solution to that problem.
00:17:46.100 Yeah, I couldn't agree with more.
00:17:47.080 We have gone, as always, way over time.
00:17:49.960 So, as you know, the guests always get the last word, so I will turn it over.
00:17:53.520 We will probably start with Glenn, since I let Raquel go first.
00:17:56.720 So, Glenn, if the floor is yours, you get to close it out.
00:17:59.920 Well, a couple things.
00:18:01.580 One, you know, I've got to say, Raquel has really grabbed on to this critic role in public safety,
00:18:10.960 and she's doing an amazing job of understanding the issues and working well, you know,
00:18:18.120 with colleagues and those in the industry.
00:18:20.040 One of the things that we haven't touched on in this conversation today yet is the fact that the handgun,
00:18:27.360 if we're just talking handguns and firearms, the impact that it will have on thousands of businesses
00:18:32.280 and jobs across this country, and it has always impacted that, you know, separate from firearm owners.
00:18:39.860 Those who own gun shops and gunsmith shops and all those sort of things will be negatively impacted by this legislation as well.
00:18:48.320 And we have to keep that in mind.
00:18:50.920 As the criminals carry on.
00:18:52.240 Yeah, criminals will continue.
00:18:53.520 Criminals will continue to be criminals.
00:18:56.040 And, you know, there are some things.
00:18:57.860 It's just like anything else, the liberals.
00:18:59.040 They would rather you not use it if there's something they disagree with, whether it be fossil fuels, whether it be firearms, that kind of thing.
00:19:06.000 They're going to tax it.
00:19:07.120 Absolutely.
00:19:07.660 That's right.
00:19:08.180 Raquel, you get your chance to close this out.
00:19:10.080 Yeah, no, this was a great discussion.
00:19:11.580 Thank you for having us on.
00:19:12.660 This is very topical, and Canadians are very concerned about the rising crime they're seeing in their cities.
00:19:17.560 And they're Justin Trudeau's lack of leadership on this.
00:19:19.720 And one thing we didn't touch on was how tightly related gun violence is to drug trafficking, smuggling drugs across the border.
00:19:26.740 We're seeing thousands, particularly young people, die of opioid fentanyl, carfentanil.
00:19:31.400 One thing we haven't mentioned is that in Bill C-5, mandatory prison time for drug traffickers will be eliminated.
00:19:37.880 These are people that are responsible for killing thousands of young Canadians with the drug traffic, with fentanyl and carfentanil.
00:19:45.040 That's closely related.
00:19:45.900 Gangsters want to protect their drug territory, and they use guns to do it.
00:19:50.300 And I just want to make the point that those are so tightly related.
00:19:53.840 We cannot talk about reducing gun violence unless we're also talking about attacking the illegal drug trafficking trade.
00:20:00.580 It's very, very concerning.
00:20:02.900 This is a growing problem.
00:20:04.380 The liberals have spent more money than any government ever in history.
00:20:07.480 That is not something that holds them back.
00:20:09.280 If they wanted to make a meaningful reduction on this gang and criminal and gun activity,
00:20:15.240 they should be investing more money in border security and police guns and gangs units
00:20:19.020 and anti-criminal organizations that run at the grassroots level that really focus on young people.
00:20:26.060 Those are three areas.
00:20:27.380 I will keep talking about them until I'm blue in the face.
00:20:29.640 But if you want to solve this issue, that's where you have to focus.
00:20:32.500 Well, it looks like most governments.
00:20:34.060 They say, we're doing something.
00:20:35.180 Hey, look, we're doing something.
00:20:36.280 Is it working?
00:20:37.820 I don't know, but we're doing something.
00:20:39.640 Don't ask that.
00:20:40.380 We're spending lots of money.
00:20:41.620 Yeah.
00:20:42.420 I don't know about results.
00:20:43.720 Yeah.
00:20:44.100 But thank you both.
00:20:45.000 Raquel Dancho, Member of Parliament for Kildonan St. Paul,
00:20:47.600 the Shadow Minister for Public Safety,
00:20:49.680 and Glenn Motts, the Member of Parliament for Medicine Hat, Cartston Warner.
00:20:53.660 Thanks very much, both of you, for joining us.
00:20:55.420 You're both good friends of the show.
00:20:56.940 And if you like this comment, or this show, I should say,
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