Michael Cooper on the Liberal gutting of Wynn’s Law
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
154.45297
Summary
In this episode of Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast, Deputy Critic Michael Cooper and Tony Clement discuss Winn's Law, a bill that would require prosecutors to provide evidence of the criminal history of a bail applicant at a bail hearing.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
You're listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:08.960
Well, they thought they were going to have an easy day over there today, but not so fast, Mr. Speaker.
00:00:16.600
What is it going to take for the Prime Minister to have any respect for any laws in this country that may curb his out-of-control behaviour?
00:00:31.200
You're listening to Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:34.580
I'm your host, Tony Clement, Member of Parliament for Paris Saint-Maskocca.
00:00:38.320
And with me today, we have Michael Cooper, the Member of Parliament for St. Albert Edmonton.
00:00:43.800
And he's also our Deputy Critic for the Conservative Party for Justice.
00:00:50.120
We're going to talk a little bit about Winn's Law, which is something that you have championed in the House of Commons
00:00:55.140
and was named after the late RCMP Constable David Winn.
00:00:58.940
So maybe talk a little bit about Constable Winn and then talk about how that created the movement for Winn's Law.
00:01:05.900
Well, back in January 2015, Constable David Winn, as well as Auxiliary Constable Derek Bond,
00:01:14.700
were attempting to arrest an individual on a series of outstanding charges.
00:01:21.020
And Constable Winn was fatally shot and killed.
00:01:25.340
And Auxiliary Constable Bond was shot but survived.
00:01:29.520
But frankly, I've talked to him and his life will obviously be never the same.
00:01:33.280
And the individual who murdered Constable Winn and shot Auxiliary Constable Bond was a career criminal.
00:01:43.760
He was out on bail at the time, notwithstanding the fact that he had more than 50 prior criminal convictions,
00:01:51.400
38 outstanding charges, numerous failures to appear.
00:01:55.400
And it prompted RCMP Commissioner Paulson to ask,
00:02:00.360
how was it possible that such an individual was walking amongst us in our community?
00:02:06.100
And one of the reasons why is because of a loophole in the criminal code.
00:02:11.580
And that is that it is discretionary whether the criminal history of a bail applicant
00:02:16.620
is brought to the attention of a judge or justice of the peace at a bail hearing.
00:02:21.220
In the case of Constable Winn's killer, that information was not brought forward.
00:02:26.840
And there's no doubt, in my mind, that had that information been brought forward
00:02:31.800
with this individual's extensive criminal history,
00:02:34.780
he would have been kept behind bars where he belonged.
00:02:40.920
So in that case, the judge or the justice of the peace who was presiding over the bail hearing
00:02:48.500
had no evidence of priors or no evidence of this criminal history,
00:02:54.120
this likelihood that he was going to re-offend if he was on bail.
00:02:59.760
She didn't have any of that information before her.
00:03:02.680
And so what Winn's law would do is close the loophole in the criminal code
00:03:09.060
by simply requiring prosecutors to lead evidence of the criminal history of bail applicants.
00:03:16.400
I mean, that's something that is always relevant and material at a bail hearing.
00:03:21.540
In fact, it's about the only thing that is often relevant and material
00:03:25.480
is to know what that history is so that a judge or JP can properly exercise for discretion
00:03:32.980
in determining whether someone should be kept behind bars or let out into the community.
00:03:37.180
So your bill currently before Parliament does that?
00:03:41.640
The bill that had been introduced by Senator Runciman and that I've sponsored in the House
00:03:46.980
Yeah, so it's co-sponsored, Senator Bob Runciman in the Canadian Senate, Bill S-217.
00:03:53.420
And you've got, you're partnering with Senator Runciman to make sure that this is also debated
00:04:00.660
And Senator Runciman was able to get it through the Senate last year.
00:04:05.420
It passed the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee unanimously.
00:04:10.000
It got through the Senate with the support of every single conservative and liberal senator.
00:04:16.080
And it wasn't until it got to the House of Commons that I guess the government to some
00:04:21.360
degree started to pay attention and decided to put politics ahead of public safety and
00:04:29.160
There's obviously some procedural wrangling that has gone on and some stonewalling by the
00:04:34.680
But bizarrely, they're laying up these barriers for this bill being passed.
00:04:42.880
The government opposed the bill at second reading.
00:04:48.260
Nonetheless, I was able to convince 27 liberal MPs to do the right thing, to put public safety
00:04:58.180
And so we were able to get it through second reading.
00:05:00.120
That was an extraordinary moment, by the way, in the House of Commons for our listeners, because
00:05:04.220
basically, Michael, you did a lot of work behind the scenes and in the background, talked
00:05:11.620
And we had a whole raft of these liberal backbenchers who basically defied their own justice minister
00:05:18.220
and the prime minister who spoke, we are told, spoke against this Winslaw in the liberal
00:05:24.600
caucus, and they were willing and able and were present in their seats to vote in favor
00:05:33.840
What made the moment all the more emotional was the presence of Shelley McInnis Winn, the
00:05:41.000
widow of Constable Winn, who was present in the gallery to witness that.
00:05:47.920
I mean, we fought hard, but we were expecting the worst.
00:05:52.520
And so it was just incredible to see that moment, to get it through second reading, not
00:05:58.400
withstanding the very vigorous opposition of the government.
00:06:02.860
Well, but then what happened is it went to committee, where effectively the liberals have
00:06:10.020
And that includes, in fairness, a few liberal MPs on the committee who did vote for it at
00:06:16.040
One of the primary reasons members of the committee have opposed it is supposedly on the basis of
00:06:28.880
So the basis that it was going to delay proceedings?
00:06:37.180
First of all, the bail hearing of Constable Winn's killer was an incredibly efficient bail hearing.
00:06:48.680
I mean, quite frankly, if it's going to slow things down a little bit to make sure that this
00:06:53.600
kind of information is brought forward, well, then that needs to happen, quite frankly, to
00:06:58.380
prevent people like Constable Winn's killer from being let out.
00:07:02.060
But the other thing is, one of the things that we did here at the Justice Committee over
00:07:07.320
and over and over again, including from people who opposed the bill, was the fact that prosecutors
00:07:16.060
We were told that this is the first thing that prosecutors learn about bail hearings.
00:07:19.980
It's the bread and butter of what prosecutors do at bail hearings in terms of leading this
00:07:26.460
evidence of criminal history of bail applicants.
00:07:28.620
So if something is almost always done, and this legislation would simply close the loophole
00:07:34.740
to make sure that it's not almost always done, but always done, I don't think that one can
00:07:40.420
reasonably make the argument that this is going to create any kind of significant backlog in
00:07:46.840
And I also have to say that it's really the height of hypocrisy for the liberals to be
00:07:53.260
talking about delay when these liberal MPs on the committee have stood in silence.
00:08:00.700
As for Justice Minister, fails to do one of the easiest things to do in terms of reducing
00:08:06.880
the backlog, and that is to fill the historic number of judicial vacancies that this Minister
00:08:14.440
of Justice is responsible for in terms of failing to fill.
00:08:17.640
I think right now we've got 62 judicial vacancies.
00:08:25.380
He's the Member of Parliament for St. Albert Edmonton, the Deputy Critic for Justice for the
00:08:34.260
So where do we go from here with respect to Winslow?
00:08:36.800
I know you're continuing to lead the campaign both publicly and in the House of Commons.
00:08:41.220
Well, I think we're going to keep fighting, but for all intents and purposes now that the
00:08:46.500
Justice Committee has recommended that the bill not proceed, the Liberal-dominated Justice
00:08:51.900
Committee, I think it's very unlikely that Winslow will become the law in this Parliament.
00:08:57.720
But that doesn't mean that I'm not going to keep on fighting.
00:09:02.240
I know in my community in Edmonton there's a real sense of outrage over this.
00:09:14.480
And assuming that the Liberals voted down, they're going to have to be held accountable.
00:09:18.540
There's still another vote in the House of Commons for the committee recommendation to
00:09:23.820
And, you know, it's obviously very disappointing.
00:09:26.920
But at the same time, I have to say, given the government's opposition, I was surprised
00:09:35.100
And it has brought attention to this important issue.
00:09:39.740
And you know as well as anyone that in the case of private members' bills, that sometimes
00:09:46.280
it takes more than one Parliament to get the right legislation passed.
00:09:57.600
Well, I did have an e-petition, a Winslow Now petition that was signed by thousands of
00:10:05.400
So I will be tabling that petition in the House of Commons.
00:10:10.340
And what I would encourage your listeners to do is call their MP to tell them that this
00:10:17.220
law is important, that this loophole needs to be closed because it can save lives.
00:10:21.300
Well, Michael Cooper, thanks for being on the program and continue the great work on behalf
00:10:25.840
of Canadians for Winslow and generally in the causes of justice that you're championing.
00:10:31.700
Thank you for listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:10:45.220
To find more episodes, interviews and in-depth discussions of politics in Canada, search for
00:10:49.960
The Blueprint on iTunes or visit podcast.conservative.ca.