Our health in whose hands？
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Summary
Another great program lined up for you and another great guest! Dr. Stephan Ellis returns to The Blueprints to discuss the liberal government's obsession with tinkering with natural health products in Canada and why this is a problem.
Transcript
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hello and welcome once again to the blueprints this is canada's conservative podcast with new
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content for you every single tuesday 1 30 p.m eastern time i'm your host jamie spale member
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of parliament for haliburton 4th links brock we ask that you like comment subscribe and share
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this program you can also download and listen to it on platforms like cast box itunes google play
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and spotify a message that is not always said in the mainstream media and something ears need to
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hear eyes need to hear this show and we need your help to do that another great program lined up for
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you and another great guest he's coming back on the show a friend of the show dr stephen ellis from
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cumberland colchester member of parliament for that writing and also the critic for health
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the shadow minister for health a good man thanks for coming back on for myself and i think many other
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mps uh they're getting calls emails and they you name it uh regarding some tinkering that health
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canada is thinking about doing with their their regulatory uh requirements concerning uh natural
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health products and this is something that the liberals seem to do every time they're in power
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i remember this back in like 2004 they were tinkering with it or thinking about tinkering with it
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and and luckily the conservatives won power in 2006 and all that kind of stopped and then of course
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they're back in power now and here we go again so tell us about what is going on just so we can all
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explain it before i go into to uh kind of more questions on on the specifics yeah you know what
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maybe it's a harbinger that uh that there's an election coming up and and we can uh get control
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again and and move forward with with the non-tinkering uh but that being said uh generally speaking
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there are significant regulations around natural health products in canada they've been proven to be
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very very very safe and and well regulated uh however as you mentioned the liberals once again
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want to begin to make changes and most importantly as i've met with the uh with the natural health
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products association is with regards to labeling and with regards to a cost recovery program as they
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uh as they named it uh as the government the liberal government has named it so those are the
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two main things that have caused significant consternation and concern uh for the association
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and many of this association represents mainly small and medium-sized businesses which we all know is the
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so um why does this keep coming up over and over again when liberals are in power i think that's the
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the one thing that i think i know the answer i can probably come up with a few but is it more about
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uh uh kind of the the bureaucracy in general trying to come up with a another brilliant idea and then
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and then not realizing that small businesses across canada could be put out of business altogether
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because of some of their changes that they're proposing yeah i think it's i think it's obviously
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uh you know a few different things they want control uh you know the liberal government loves to
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control your life and and tell you exactly what you can and cannot do um so i think that's that's one
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of the important things i think we also need to understand that uh they fail to recognize the
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importance that natural health products are to canadians i would have to say that my office has
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received more inquiries of concern with these changes than i want to say any other legislations that
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has been proposed in the last 18 19 months since i've been in ottawa even more than bill c21 which
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of course was related to to gun control it would be a toss-up but it's an amazing number of people who
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use natural health products uh and it's their choice this is what they choose to do to use something
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uh that they feel uh improves their health and and their outlook and well-being and in canada of course
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knowing that this is already a safe space uh because there's been many many years of use of
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natural health products that uh that we know that to add regulation is just unfair regulatory burden
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to consumers and to manufacturers and distributors who are these small and medium-sized businesses in
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canada and not only that there are some common sense common sense solutions to to this problem and
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or so-called problem that you you would say one would be uh as you talked about off air was uh using
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a qr code that could put the the requirements that health can is asking for and in many different
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languages and and as it changes you can update the wording right rather than having to deal with
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labeling issues like there are there are so many easy solutions to this problem that health
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candidate has created because as you said off the top it is well regulated and it is safe
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i really like what you said you know because this is a space where you could use some innovation
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and heaven forbid you could use common sense here to make these changes to say you know instead of
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um you know making these tiny print on plastic labels uh that are peel off on a on a bottle of
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say vitamin d that you could actually be innovative and and move forward and say
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because we know that many people from different backgrounds who speak primarily a language other
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than french or english would then be able to use a qr code to have it in their native language that
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would that would be more helpful to improve actually improve understanding which would also improve
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safety uh that would allow us to be very respectful uh to to people who have chosen to make canada their
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new home and we could also do it for indigenous populations as well uh because it appears there
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perhaps is uh uh percentage wise or per capita wise more indigenous and more immigrant people who
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would use natural health products than perhaps someone like myself who was born here in canada
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be that as it may it's important that we're respectful of people have chosen to make canada their home
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and people live here now so if there's innovative ways we can make changes that also doesn't involve
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adding a bunch of plastics and i think we would all agree that that would not be a great idea
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that we could make those changes very simply personally i i think those labels where you
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have to peel off are just a pain because sometimes you rip the whole thing and then you've got a piece
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of whatever laying around or in the garbage it drives me absolutely crazy so having something like
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this and and this is something we talked about a few shows ago common sense with this government is
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out the window nothing seems to make sense with this government but of course to to to get away with
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you know moving away to for the elitist opinion you have to go with what is opposite from the common
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person right so you have to and then somehow do the mental gymnastics to make what you're saying
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new and otherwise uh sound reasonable which never really does well it's it's an impossibility when it's
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just not reasonable you you can't you know when you begin to think about it you say i can't wrap my
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mind around that what is the sensibility because there isn't any there's no common sense attached to it
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and i and i think the other thing that we know very clearly with these regulations the other
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non-common sense thing of course is is that they as they have named it the liberal government has
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named it their cost recovery program uh and we all know that these these uh these remedies these
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natural health products are already subject to gst and hst so there is an element of cost recovery
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there but they again want to go beyond that and and my only thought is related to the fact that
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because they spend money like there is no tomorrow they have to start recovering money somehow and
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this is of course it's another a tax on businesses it's not just a tax but it is an attack on businesses
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small and medium-sized businesses who manufacture and distribute natural health products in canada
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and we know that this these exorbitant fees that the liberal government is asking them to pay
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is going to drive them out of business and for me that's a huge concern we know that
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canada is built upon small and medium-sized businesses and this will drive them out of business
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death by a thousand cuts which is some people describe what the liberal government is doing
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to small business right across canada it really doesn't matter what field you're in it's it's one
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regulatory burden one hurdle one more uh red tape uh hurdle that you have to go through and
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figure out where your small business you should be focusing on on on keeping your business going
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or innovating or coming up with the next great thing though big corporations they have lots of
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resources at their disposal and they can do that often quite easily while putting barriers in in in
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front of a small business while lobbying government to do that right it's quite the cozy relationship
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the uh the big industries have with with government and they love it well you know what the the concern
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i have on top of that is is with these costs associated with labeling changes and their quote
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unquote cost recovery program once we drive canadian businesses out of business not we once the liberal
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government drive them out of business the difficulty is is then canadian consumers who still have a desire
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for natural health products will have to obtain them internationally and um i don't know if i mentioned it to you
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or not jamie but i had a conversation with the health minister minister jean-yve duclos about these two
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things and i asked him very specifically is would these new burdensome regulations be applied to
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internationally made product uh and he couldn't answer me that question and therefore you know all we're
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doing then as a country is putting our own businesses at a significant disadvantage and of course you know if
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there's no financial burden for international companies then they are not going to go out of
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business or feel the sting at all and then canadians will be driven to use internationally made products
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which when we have our our own here in canada those are the ones we should be supporting another issue i
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have with this whole thing is it to my understanding this won't be brought forward in legislation
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correct this will be more of health canada bringing in a regulation that has the force of law
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without parliamentary approval giving these unelected bureaucrats and the minister
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to uh some extraordinary power to start to bring in sweeping rules that could put businesses out of
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business and and and parliamentarians don't have the opportunity to debate this in parliament you know
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what as as you well know and and viewers need to understand this as well listeners need to understand
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this this is a trick of the liberal government we saw with the order in council around handguns and
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banning guns in general uh and we saw with uh an automatic escalator tax on alcohol uh things that we
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don't get to vote on in parliament that they have just enshrined into their regulatory and burdensome
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processes that normally would have the checks and balances of everybody looking at and saying hey does
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this continue to make sense uh you know why are they doing it please explain yourself tell us the pros
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and cons we'll tell you the cons because we already know what they are uh tell us why you think this is
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necessary explain to canadians why it's necessary and once again what we see is this uh as you mentioned
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this ability to create laws that are not created by the usual means but create these unnecessary and
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ridiculous financial and regulatory burdens for for canadian business isn't it interesting that
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no matter what happens when these regulations are brought in by regulatory means right not a vote in
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parliament that none of the bureaucrats actually lose their job right like if a rule of regulation
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comes in that shuts down a mill or oil and gas or a small business with these uh regulatory changes
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to health canada nobody is punished like nobody loses their job so if you put a mill out and
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there's hundreds of people out of work which then subsequently shuts down the whole town because of
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all the spin-off businesses like nobody gets punished because of it and and they and it's not a law in
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parliament no and of course the other difficulty is is you know just as well as i do that this liberal
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government has continued and continued and continued to add civil servants to their ranks and now the i
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think the civil servants from a federal perspective is has increased by 30 percent uh in the last eight
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years of this uh liberal trudeau government and we know that the the the cost associated with that is
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significant in terms of pay and sadly uh bonuses even when a good job is not being done
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and benefits cmhc is a classic example you know they haven't created one new house for one canadian
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and boy they still love to get their benefits how about the cbc they still got their bonuses and their
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benefits uh as the cmhc did and and uh you know when we look at those things uh that doesn't make any
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sense there is absolutely no common sense associated with that we both know that this is this is something
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that um has been going on a while so as the liberals decide okay we're back in power we're going to
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regulate these health products we tried back in the early 2000s the conservatives came into power that
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kind of went away for a bit now we're back in charge uh it's just a rehash of the old agenda which
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basically is as you said off the top a bit of control but also the fact that why would the government
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let let the let pesky canadians make make decisions they might hurt themselves right this is
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this is we know best and that and look at everything the liberals are doing it all comes back to that
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trying to control your life saying what you can do what the government approves of and what they don't
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and and and if you rail against them or come out against them they'll put you on the naughty list
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absolutely i mean this is a solution looking for a problem and it's uh adding smaller print
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to a bottle which is already impossible to read is is not going to solve anything uh you know maybe
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it's the government trying to say well you know you must read this you must do this you must do that
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the liberal government as you mentioned is is absolutely insincere and and opaque or non-transparent
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in their approach to why they're doing this and again uh it taking it is taking away the choice
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of canadians of how that they want to manage their health care and we know there's there is already
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6.5 million canadians without access to primary health care so it stands to reason that more and
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more canadians are choosing uh to look after their own health in their own way and as as that problem
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continues i suspect that there will be more and more canadians choosing to look after their own
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health in the way that they wish to do so which really is the country that everybody should want
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to live in less government interference in your life and more freedom to make the choices which
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you think are appropriate for you and for your family and i think after the pandemic coming out of
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that a lot of people kind of woke up to to kind of you know how their health and bodies are looked
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after and kind of we're looking for different options and and and like you said we should have
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options options are good you know competition is good you know this this type of thing should be
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should be uh you know regulated so it's safe but at the same time available to those who choose to
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to try something and i think that that's uh you know that's the environment that exists at the current
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time so as i said i mean this is a solution looking for a problem and you know i talk to many people
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here in my local town and of course you know they say i when i go to buy something i also talk to the
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person who's selling it who has knowledge related to that product uh or if i'm you know if i'm buying
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it at a pharmacy if it's a vitamin or it's a coenzyme or whatever it is then i will talk to the
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pharmacist pharmacist about it and ask questions uh to say hey it does this make any sense is this right
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for me does this have any excuse me interference with the medications that i'm taking is it okay
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to take with you know with the other uh illnesses that i have is it going to raise my blood pressure
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etc so i don't believe that what they're asking is going to tell you to do that uh again the common
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sense to say i'm i'm on some perhaps on some medications i'm trying to avoid medications and how
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does this fit into my overall plan because ultimately as canadians we are responsible for
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our own health we should not be abdicating that responsibility listen i know i'm a doctor but you can't
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abdicate that responsibility to your doctor either or to your any of your primary care providers you
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certainly cannot abdicate that responsibility to your government nonsense nonsense from the common
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people uh doc ellis uh the word is always given the floor is always given to the the guest you can
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clean it up from here uh how would you like to close it out well you know what i want to make it clear to
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folks that we have abdicated on your behalf to ask for an extension of the consultative period
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that is something that i specifically asked to the minister of health the johnny duclos and the second
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thing is to say that these regulations if heaven forbid they're enacted they need to be also uh
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used in the same manner with internationally produced products so when we look at those
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things i think that's important i'm very very very sad to report that he really had no answers
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for those two questions that i laid at his feet uh but as conservatives of course and i know uh my great
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friend jamie smale is is is always excited to do this but we will hold this government to account
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and we will ensure that canada continues to be the freest country in the world love that doc ellis
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member of parliament card for uh cumberland colchester also the critic for health the shadow minister if
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you will we appreciate your time we haven't had you on in a while and i do apologize i i don't know
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why but we we'll fix that we'll have you on again there's no shortage of uh health related stuff we
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could talk about and i absolutely uh thank you for having me here today jamie anytime thank you for
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your time doc and thank you for your time as well please like comment subscribe and share this program
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