The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - May 09, 2017


Parliament belongs to all Canadians

Topics
standing orders changes arrogance and disrespect to Canadians
Hosted by
Jamie Schmal
Mentioned
Justin Trudeau Tony Clement Jean Chrétien Candace Bergen Speaker
China is not Canada’s best friend Michael Cooper on the Liberal gutting of Wynn’s Law

Episode Stats


Length

15 minutes

Words per minute

185.26

Word count

2,786

Sentence count

191


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Candice Bergen, MP for Portage Lisgar and House Leader of the Official Opposition, joins me to discuss the proposed changes to the standing orders in the House of Commons, and why they should be opposed by all parties.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 You're listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:09.000 Well, they thought they were going to have an easy day over there today, but not so fast, Mr. Speaker.
00:00:16.640 What is it going to take for the Prime Minister to have any respect for any laws in this country that may curb his out-of-control behaviour?
00:00:25.320 And now, here's your host, Tony Clement.
00:00:31.260 You're listening to Blueprint, Canada's official opposition, the Conservative Party of Canada's official podcast.
00:00:37.480 I'm your host, Tony Clement, Member of Parliament for Paris, South Muskoka.
00:00:41.240 And I have a very special guest with me today, Candice Bergen, MP for Portage Lisgar.
00:00:46.020 Correct, Portage Lisgar.
00:00:47.360 I'm glad I got that right.
00:00:48.620 And as importantly, perhaps, she is the official opposition House leader, which means that she leads our caucus when it comes to issues before Parliament.
00:00:59.880 Correct.
00:01:00.560 Okay, I've got that right.
00:01:01.640 So that's two out of two so far for me.
00:01:03.620 We wanted to talk a little bit about an issue that is before the House of Commons right now, which is changes to the standing orders.
00:01:10.140 So, Candice, why don't you walk through what the standing orders are, first of all, and maybe what the Liberals have been proposing and why it's important for Canadians to be concerned about this.
00:01:20.100 Sure.
00:01:20.480 But first of all, thanks for having me on the show, Tony.
00:01:22.900 Blueprint.
00:01:23.640 That's great.
00:01:25.260 I'm very excited to be on with you.
00:01:28.000 So the standing orders are the rules around how Parliament works in the House of Commons.
00:01:34.760 So they are rules around how long people, members can speak, rules around what the government can do to pass legislation.
00:01:42.740 There are rules right now that they can shut down debate, and we don't always like it, but it is a tool that they have.
00:01:50.280 We have tools that we can use, not only in the House of Commons, but at committee to hold the government to account.
00:01:57.580 There are rules around question period and how question period operates.
00:02:01.040 So all of the standing orders, and there's actually like a book, like two phone book thick, a book of standing orders that govern us.
00:02:10.760 So a lot of standing orders.
00:02:12.140 So if this was a hockey game, these are the rules that dictate when a pass is offside or how icing occurs or when you get a penalty, those kinds of things.
00:02:21.160 Exactly.
00:02:21.960 That's a very good way to describe it, especially right now with the playoffs that are going on.
00:02:26.380 That's right.
00:02:26.560 So it's the rules on how we play and how we operate in the House of Commons.
00:02:31.440 So the Liberals have proposed some changes to these standing orders.
00:02:35.220 Why don't you go through what those changes are?
00:02:37.620 Sure.
00:02:38.060 First of all, though, I will say it's not uncommon for different governments to propose changes.
00:02:43.420 There have been changes to the standing orders over the last 150 years.
00:02:48.420 Definitely there have been changes, but over 80% of those changes, many of them minor, have not happened without consensus of all the parties.
00:02:58.240 And that's what this is really about.
00:03:00.160 So certainly the government has the right to talk about changes, but precedent would say that before they can make those changes, they need to have consensus of the other parties.
00:03:10.440 And the reason is simple.
00:03:12.080 In order for those changes to not just be in the best interests of one side or the other, each side then would have to sell why that change is a good idea.
00:03:21.220 So if, for example, the government can persuade the opposition why their change is a good idea, it would be because they've shown us that it's not just in their best interests.
00:03:29.820 And they also would have shown us that it will be good for future governments as well and future opposition.
00:03:35.860 And likewise, if there's a change that we would want as opposition, we should have to, it would be incumbent on us to persuade the government why it's good for all of us.
00:03:44.040 That's an important check and balance, isn't it?
00:03:45.720 Because no government is in government forever.
00:03:48.600 So whatever change they apply to themselves and to the opposition could be used by another government in the same manner.
00:03:55.460 Exactly. And that's really where our back is up with the Liberals, because they want to make these changes arbitrarily.
00:04:03.320 They don't want a consensus.
00:04:04.820 They say they want a conversation, but they've forgotten that a conversation is two ways.
00:04:09.520 And they've just said that they're going to ram through these changes.
00:04:12.860 Now, we think we now finally understand kind of what their motive is behind forcing these changes through.
00:04:19.940 And it all comes down to, Tony, them not wanting to be accountable, and specifically, Justin Trudeau not wanting to be here in Parliament.
00:04:28.320 He has very little respect for this place.
00:04:31.380 I think he views it as an annoyance.
00:04:34.300 And you know when he's in question period and getting tough questions, he's not in what he probably views as his safe, happy place.
00:04:42.540 Right, right.
00:04:43.020 He doesn't want to be here answering questions.
00:04:45.020 Not much opportunity to take selfies.
00:04:46.540 No selfie opportunities. Nobody's worshipping at his feet.
00:04:51.040 You know, the men and women on the opposition side aren't looking to have any photos or anything with him, right?
00:04:57.320 And our job is to ask tough but fair questions of the government to keep them accountable.
00:05:00.980 That's part of our job, is it not?
00:05:02.400 And listen, he's done a lot of things over the last year and a half that need answers to.
00:05:07.500 I mean, whether it's the massive deficit, no plan to balance the budget, some of his big ethical lapses in judgment.
00:05:14.600 I mean, we're seeing his own ministers who are misleading Canadians.
00:05:18.460 So there's a lot of areas where we have to do our job here in the House of Commons.
00:05:22.560 But it's clear one of the biggest changes that they want to make is that Justin Trudeau would only have to be here one hour, one day a week to answer questions.
00:05:31.900 And that's something I think has really got us frustrated, again, the way they're doing it.
00:05:37.620 But that rule in and of itself we think is an important one whereby we need to keep the Prime Minister accountable every day that the House is sitting.
00:05:47.500 There are issues that come up, and we recognize there are some days he might be traveling and doing things, but he can't just be here one day a week.
00:05:55.160 Can you imagine saying to your boss, you know, or any Canadian saying to their boss, you know what, I think I don't want to be here on Fridays and Mondays.
00:06:04.280 I just want to be here one day a week to do some of the tough work.
00:06:08.120 Right, and to answer any questions about how well I'm doing.
00:06:11.020 Yeah.
00:06:11.200 Yeah, you know, that's the other side of this too.
00:06:13.560 These are questions to make sure that he and his team are accountable to Canadians.
00:06:20.320 Yeah, exactly, which they don't want to be.
00:06:22.380 And so his idea is one day a week in question period, the other four days of the week that the House is sitting, he would not be available for question period.
00:06:30.940 Is that right?
00:06:31.460 Exactly.
00:06:32.440 No matter what was happening, he would be able to then have license to say, hey, the standing orders only say I need to be here one day a week.
00:06:40.960 And, I mean, again, back to the whole idea of changing these rules without getting a consensus.
00:06:48.060 He is now saying that every prime minister from now until whenever for eternity would only have to be here one day a week and then could go ahead and make other changes to the standing orders for their benefit.
00:07:00.920 Unilaterally, basically.
00:07:01.820 Back to your example, it would be like as if the Stanley Cup winner said, well, we won the tournament, we won the cup, so we're now going to go change the rules on how the game is played.
00:07:13.820 Trudeau doesn't have a right to do that.
00:07:16.540 Yes, he won a majority.
00:07:18.140 Yes, he's changing legislation and he's using the tools available to him to change legislation.
00:07:23.940 We're opposing it, but he doesn't have a right to change the standing orders and make his life easier without getting consensus from all of us.
00:07:32.760 And this is an important point.
00:07:33.880 It's not only our position, but to be fair, the NDP feel the same way about this.
00:07:38.160 So this is not a partisan conservative position.
00:07:40.820 This is all the parties in the opposition that are official parties saying, hey, wait a minute, let's have a discussion.
00:07:45.880 And I want to make it clear.
00:07:47.900 We're speaking, by the way, with Candace Bergen, who is the house leader for the Conservative Party of Canada.
00:07:52.860 Candace, you have been, in my observation, I'm going to be editorializing a little bit, you've been very reasonable in your approach with the House leader for the Liberal government saying, hey, let's talk about this, but really have not had a good conversation because they don't want to have a real conversation with you.
00:08:10.820 You're right, Tony, in that this is not just the Conservatives that are opposing these changes of the way they're doing it.
00:08:15.880 The NDP are fully on side with us.
00:08:18.720 We've been very strong in our unity on this, as well as the Bloc and the Green also have issues.
00:08:25.060 But what we've done, we wanted to be reasonable because we actually would like to get this solved.
00:08:30.860 It really is disruptive.
00:08:32.760 We don't have a lot of tools available.
00:08:34.740 And so we'd like to see this solved.
00:08:36.720 One of the things that we offered the opposition House leader, and I guess she went to Justin Trudeau, and he said no.
00:08:43.740 But one of the options that we gave them was something that, and I mean, I hate to use Jean Chrétien as an example, but Jean Chrétien put together a working group of about four or five parliamentarians, and it took them two years.
00:08:57.860 And then they came out with suggestions for changes to the standing order.
00:09:01.380 It was workable.
00:09:02.380 There wasn't a bunch of havoc in the House or in the Chamber.
00:09:06.040 There was peace.
00:09:06.820 Everybody working together.
00:09:07.840 Everybody worked together.
00:09:08.920 So we've written her a letter, two letters actually, saying, would you even consider this model?
00:09:13.920 It was one of your prime ministers, so why wouldn't you accept it?
00:09:17.660 And we heard nothing back from her until a week ago when she said, no, we're just going to introduce a motion on the floor of the House of Commons, and we're going to ram these through.
00:09:26.640 So they've been very unreasonable to work with.
00:09:28.900 So where does it go from here, Candace?
00:09:30.420 What do we expect to have happen, and will there be a debate about this?
00:09:34.940 They've told us that they will put a motion on the House floor.
00:09:38.800 We haven't seen it yet.
00:09:40.680 So if and when that happens, we're going to use every tool available to stop them from doing this, and it won't be good for them.
00:09:50.200 And overall, it's just not good for the respect and for the work that we're trying to do here in the House of Commons.
00:09:56.000 But they really have left us very few options.
00:09:59.040 They really are being bullies on this.
00:10:00.880 Again, I don't like using that term, but they are.
00:10:03.820 But we've kept the door open to say, look, if you change your mind, we want to talk to you.
00:10:09.720 Is that right?
00:10:10.360 We do, and we're willing to compromise and find a workable solution.
00:10:14.260 But again, we know this Prime Minister.
00:10:17.240 There's a level of arrogance that is just getting out of control, and I think that's what we're seeing.
00:10:22.720 I mean, we're seeing this where the House of Commons, and you minions here in Parliament don't really matter, and how dare you challenge me, Justin Trudeau.
00:10:30.680 So I don't want to be here, and I will push through what I want to because I'm large and I'm in charge.
00:10:36.600 It should be noted that this is the second time they tried to push these through in the short term of the Trudeau government so far.
00:10:45.560 The last time it was kind of derailed by Justin Trudeau's elbow on the floor of the House of Commons when the errant elbow hit an opposition MP.
00:10:55.380 And then they kind of retreated from that.
00:10:57.620 But it's really the same kind of way that they're trying to do things.
00:11:01.720 Here's our plan.
00:11:03.620 We're going to vote on it.
00:11:04.560 We're not going to have any consensus.
00:11:05.980 We're just going to ram it through.
00:11:07.440 That's right.
00:11:07.900 They have tried this before a year and a half ago.
00:11:10.740 It didn't go well for them, but maybe they've thought that enough time has passed.
00:11:15.940 And again, why it didn't go well for them the last time is because Trudeau lost his temper and came charging across the House of Commons floor.
00:11:25.900 Unbelievable to watch.
00:11:27.620 You were there, Tony.
00:11:28.100 I was there.
00:11:28.780 I was there.
00:11:29.540 It was unbelievable to watch.
00:11:31.200 But I don't think that that was just all of a sudden out of character for him.
00:11:35.360 I think he has been accustomed to, especially the last year and a half, getting his way and doing whatever he wants.
00:11:42.960 And it's this arrogance.
00:11:44.620 And listen, this isn't just about us in the House of Commons.
00:11:48.360 I mean, we have a job to do.
00:11:49.620 We recognize there's going to be challenges.
00:11:51.820 But it's arrogance and disrespect to the Canadian people, to people in Canada who are working hard, who play by the rules, who have a lot of questions for what the government, in regards to what the government is doing.
00:12:04.660 It's disrespectful to them.
00:12:06.520 And this is the wider issue, isn't it?
00:12:08.060 It's not just about us as MPs and the rules that we are playing by.
00:12:11.320 But it really is a greater indicator about how people throughout Canada are being disrespected and ignored.
00:12:18.860 Exactly.
00:12:20.280 And we're seeing this on so many levels from the Liberals, whether, again, whether it's misuse of taxpayers' dollars.
00:12:27.860 I mean, we just heard how they've spent $30,000, which, you know what, that's for some people.
00:12:34.200 Some people make that.
00:12:37.520 I mean, where I live, people make $30,000 a year.
00:12:40.400 So that's a living for many people.
00:12:44.220 The Liberals use $30,000 to take some very wealthy executives to a play in New York, you know, because they just think that they're entitled to use taxpayers' dollars the way that they want to.
00:12:56.500 We've seen offices being renovated for a million-dollar costs.
00:13:00.460 We're seeing, obviously, the Prime Minister flying all around the world for all of his vanity tours.
00:13:06.680 And people are struggling.
00:13:08.120 People are struggling to save for their kids' education, to pay for their kids' hockey, because they can't use it as a deduction anymore.
00:13:16.240 Parents have seen income splitting being taken away.
00:13:20.120 These are real challenges that Canadians are facing.
00:13:23.520 And we have a Prime Minister who is completely oblivious to it and is just thinking about what's in his best interest.
00:13:31.120 And I think that's the wider issue for our listeners, too, because this is kind of part and parcel of how the Trudeau government is dealing with issues.
00:13:39.160 It's not just about the standing orders of the House of Commons.
00:13:41.820 It's about respect for Canadians and really living up to the promises that Justin Trudeau made on the election campaign, that he was going to be different, he was going to be more open, he was going to be more transparent, he was going to be more respectful.
00:13:58.800 And all of that, basically, we're seeing on issue after issue after issue is going out the window.
00:14:02.960 On issue after issue, you're right, Tony, what we are seeing is a person who campaigned saying one thing, and he's doing completely the opposite.
00:14:14.680 It's like when you scratch away at the surface of Justin Trudeau, what you see is not what you get.
00:14:20.720 Well, I'm going to leave it at that, Candace.
00:14:23.020 Bergen, thank you for being on Blueprint, the official opposition, the Conservative Party of Canada's official podcast, talking about standing orders, but the wider issues of why the opposition, the Conservative Party, we are standing up for Canadians and the Liberal government is not.
00:14:38.120 But thank you for being on the show.
00:14:39.260 It's been a pleasure.
00:14:40.040 Thank you.
00:14:49.460 Thank you for listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:14:53.020 To find more episodes, interviews, and in-depth discussions of politics in Canada, search for The Blueprint on iTunes or visit podcast.conservative.ca.