Russia and Canada’s National Defence policy
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
156.90376
Summary
In this episode of The Blueprints, we talk with two members of Parliament, Carrie Lynn Finley and Cheryl Gallant, about where Canada stands in terms of national security in the Arctic and continental defence, and what Canada needs to do in order to be more prepared.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
00:00:07.640
host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Court, the likes of Brock,
00:00:10.860
with new content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30pm Eastern Time. We are going right through
00:00:16.300
the summer. We are not taking any breaks because this is a message you probably aren't getting in
00:00:20.560
the mainstream media. So we ask that you like, comment, subscribe, share this program, and
00:00:24.980
together we can push back against that ever-moving Liberal agenda. And of course, as always, if you
00:00:29.480
can't listen or watch the entire program right this second, download it, listen to it later on
00:00:34.360
on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, you name it, it is out there. So great
00:00:40.360
show lined up for you. I know I say that every single week. We have two amazing guests to talk
00:00:45.140
about national security. We're going to talk about the Arctic. We're going to talk about global affairs
00:00:49.780
and how Canada plays a role in that. So to chat about that, we have Carrie Lynn Finley, the Member
00:00:54.740
of Parliament for South Surrey, White Rock, and beautiful British Columbia. She's also the
00:00:59.380
critic for National Defence. And right beside her, we have Cheryl Gallant, the Member of
00:01:03.460
Parliament for Pembroke, Nipissing. Sorry, Renfrew, Nipissing, Pembroke. Sorry, I drive
00:01:08.580
through it all the time. You'd think I'd get that right. Thank you, both of you, for joining
00:01:13.000
So let's talk about the Arctic, something that is kind of a topic of conversation for many
00:01:17.520
about where Canada stands in terms of securing it. We have trillions of dollars worth of minerals
00:01:23.580
and natural resources up there. We have Russia and China kind of looking in to see where
00:01:28.300
they play a role and what they can do in that region. So does Canada prepared at all to defend
00:01:34.440
or do we even have an Arctic strategy? I know Stephen Harper had it, but really didn't get
00:01:38.300
picked up after the Liberals took power in 2015.
00:01:41.520
Well, I'm glad you mentioned Prime Minister Harper because he actually made it a priority.
00:01:45.920
Went up there every summer, made a point of backing the Franklin Expedition, for instance,
00:01:52.320
to show the history there. We also mapped the continental shelf and have laid claim to that.
00:01:58.220
So that focus on the Arctic has completely fallen away under the Liberals and we are not prepared,
00:02:05.340
frankly. And in an ever-changing and more dangerous world we find ourselves in, particularly since
00:02:12.080
the Russia invasion of Ukraine, it is really important, more than ever, to talk about continental defense
00:02:19.580
and to talk about our Arctic. Most people growing up in Canada, we look at a map and we think
00:02:24.820
it goes right up to the North Pole and we think that's all ours. Well, there's some other countries
00:02:30.260
that have some different ideas. China likes all the rare earth minerals up there. Russia itself has
00:02:36.360
definitely been navigating through Northwest Passage, very close to our shores, and we really don't
00:02:44.660
know where Russia's going next or what they're doing. In addition, the capacity of missiles to, even
00:02:53.420
from North Korea now, to go further, to take different trajectories, even coming up from the south,
00:02:59.320
as a recent Chinese missile did, means that we have to upgrade, modernize our early warning systems,
00:03:06.120
our NORAD modernization is very important. There was an announcement by the government just a few
00:03:14.740
days ago of $4.9 billion going into NORAD modernization, but that's not new money. It's
00:03:20.200
money that was already allocated in the budget and very lofty promises about another $40 billion over
00:03:25.980
the next 20 years. I don't know about you, Jamie, but I don't know that I'll be in this specific role
00:03:31.140
15, 20 years from now, and I don't think they know that I'll be in it. Well, you're in your 20s,
00:03:34.900
so you have lots of time. Well, I have the time and the energy. It's just that usually in government,
00:03:39.460
things change. Besides that, we want to have a conservative government in, so to make promises
00:03:45.460
in those kind of dollar figures over that kind of time frame is basically meaningless.
00:03:51.040
The United States wants to see more integration, and we should want to see more integration from Canada
00:03:58.140
as well in continental defense. And that means being part of the understanding that these rogue
00:04:05.500
states see us as one target area, and we need to do our part.
00:04:10.460
Now, Cheryl, you sit on the NATO Parliamentary Friendship Group. You're also a member of the
00:04:15.760
National Defense Committee. You must be looking at this as a whole, wondering where Canada is.
00:04:21.400
Are they able to meet their 2% commitments? Something it hasn't done in a while, and it's not getting
00:04:26.100
any better under Justin Trudeau. We're seeing issues with military procurement, and the list goes on.
00:04:31.980
Yes, we're far below the 2% commitment in Made in Wales, and even with the percentage of our gross
00:04:40.260
domestic product that we do spend towards defense, it's fudging. The numbers are fudged by the Liberals
00:04:46.000
as well because they now include the Coast Guard. Other countries include the Coast Guard, but their
00:04:55.760
Coast Guards are armed, so they can become involved in a conflict if need be. Ours are not. They're just
00:05:04.240
trying to pad the numbers. As well now, they're including Veterans Affairs. But we've been far below,
00:05:11.520
and we have countries like Lithuania, who are now have increased over time to 2.5% and committed. We have
00:05:19.760
Germany, who has been sort of under the radar, but they have put forth huge commitments towards their
00:05:27.680
NATO spending as well, defense overall. So, yeah, Canada is lagging behind in terms of protecting our Arctic. We
00:05:37.440
have four submarines, and we are fortunate to have one submarine in the water participating in the
00:05:45.840
security of the world at any point in time. And we need new submarines. We haven't seen any plans,
00:05:54.000
actually even calling for proposals, and the submarines we do have cannot go under the Arctic ice.
00:06:02.240
So, the deepwater port that Prime Minister Harper started, we've had no updates in Defense Committee,
00:06:12.720
I believe Carrie Lynn, that I can recall as to how that is going, if they've even continued to pursue it.
00:06:19.200
So, we can't defend our North. We already have the Chinese who have a laboratory in the Arctic,
00:06:26.720
and Russia, Putin has established an ever-growing naval base in his Arctic, supposedly to allow for more
00:06:42.240
commercial traffic. But really, I think we've learned, especially over the past four months,
00:06:48.080
you can never take what Putin says at face value.
00:06:51.680
You also can't rely on our historical position, even with our allies. For instance, the AUKUS
00:06:58.960
agreement. We were left totally out of that. One of the reasons is what Cheryl's brought up about,
00:07:04.880
we don't have nuclear submarines. And when I questioned the Minister of Global Affairs on that,
00:07:12.320
she seemed to think that nuclear was about nuclear missile capability, not how you power the sub.
00:07:18.560
So, we have ministers who don't completely understand what we're talking about. And when you start,
00:07:25.600
as one of the Five Eyes partners, historically, when you start being left out of
00:07:30.480
high intelligence briefings, when you start being left out of new agreements, that is problematic for us.
00:07:36.880
And we have been criticized by the Americans for, I think the term was used, freeloading.
00:07:43.440
And, you know, it's about getting our defense spending in line with our Wales commitments and
00:07:50.720
NATO. But it's also about understanding the role we could play, and the role we're not playing right
00:07:56.880
now, with our very closest allies, and for our own national security.
00:08:01.120
So let's talk about equipment, because if we want to protect our coasts, whichever coast it is,
00:08:05.600
we need the equipment. So choosing a pistol seems to be a problem for the military. We can't seem to get
00:08:11.520
our icebreakers built. We can't seem to get our strategy on subs. I remember, and I'm sure you
00:08:16.960
both did in 2015, fighting the battle on F-35s. And I took a pounding in those debates because the
00:08:23.520
the Liberals and NDP said that was a horrible decision. Turns out, not so bad. The Liberals are
00:08:28.320
finally going forward with it, albeit about six years too late. But this seems to be an issue within
00:08:33.600
the community itself on how to get equipment quickly into the hands of those that need it.
00:08:41.600
Sorry, go ahead. The problem is, this government has never taken national security seriously.
00:08:49.840
I think Carrie Lynn can expand upon that. Our procurement system process in Canada is far too
00:08:57.600
politicized. We're criticized by other countries for this. Cheryl mentioned Germany. Germany has suddenly
00:09:03.200
come to the table in a big way and has really made bigger, much bigger commitments. But you look at
00:09:10.160
other countries where they made the F-35 decision in a couple of years. We were so severely criticized
00:09:17.440
as a government for being part of the F-35 consortium. And now, after seven years, they're back to it.
00:09:24.080
However, they're very big on announcements and very short on implementation. So here we are with a big
00:09:31.040
announcement about F-35s, a major investment. They still haven't signed the contracts. We've been
00:09:36.480
asking. They're saying, well, maybe by the end of the year they'll be done. And yet, we purchase the F-35s.
00:09:42.880
That's the deal in the consortium at the same price as the U.S. in the year we acquire them. And the
00:09:49.120
minister's now making promises about delivery when we don't even have contracts. So it takes too long.
00:09:56.000
It is too politicized. It's too complicated. We need to do better. The NDP the other day were
00:10:03.280
criticizing us, saying we didn't do any better. That's just not true. We were in Afghanistan,
00:10:08.960
and we had to streamline our procurement during that time to get equipment and kit. This government
00:10:14.960
doesn't even seem to be able to get basic kit, basic uniform kit, to a lot of our armed forces,
00:10:22.000
never mind the big, big equipment purchases. The procurement minister and committee of the whole
00:10:28.160
basically ended up saying, after being asked on several of these, well, we just sort of wait for
00:10:33.840
the national defense to tell us what we want, and then we try and get the contracts done. It's a very,
00:10:38.800
would you agree, a very hands-off way to approach procurement and what we need.
00:10:46.000
So we have an issue with procuring equipment. We also have the numbers, I think, getting down
00:10:52.080
to concerning levels in terms of our military readiness, in terms of overall recruitment. I
00:10:57.280
think that's an issue that needs to be worked on as well that the Liberals, from what I see,
00:11:03.840
The troops are demoralized. Their focus on matters more to do with social engineering
00:11:13.280
than getting them the practice they need for exercises in between deployments is
00:11:21.280
really what's turning them off. Young people, especially, join the military for adventure.
00:11:28.560
Being stuck on base, mopping a floor isn't what they signed up for. They wanted to be a part of
00:11:35.120
contributing to the defense and security of Canada. So it's a huge disappointment that they're not able
00:11:41.120
to participate or have the equipment they need to do the jobs that we ask them to do.
00:11:48.000
We've just been studying this in the National Defense Committee on recruitment and retention.
00:11:53.120
We're down depending on different estimates between 8,000 to 12,000 troops to start with.
00:11:58.720
So we really need to recruit brave and patriotic Canadians, as we always have, into the armed forces.
00:12:09.040
But what are they signing up for exactly? And that's where there's a disconnect. There's something
00:12:14.880
like 150 different jobs you could have in the CAF. But do they advertise those jobs? Do they talk about them?
00:12:22.400
Do they look for the right fit? Our study has shown that they don't use modern recruitment tools,
00:12:30.640
modern human resources tools. They're very slow to get back to people even after they've shown
00:12:36.320
a keen interest. We're also talking again about universality of service, whether that's a help
00:12:43.920
or a hindrance. That's something we've always had. But at least look at modern practices in HR
00:12:50.560
and at least advertise and fully advertise what the opportunities are or you're just not going to get
00:12:58.880
So all these challenges with procuring equipment, getting soldiers or whatever into the military,
00:13:05.440
like you said, it could be in a different capacity, what have you. Are other countries
00:13:10.880
around the world talking to us right now in terms of making important decisions? You talked about the
00:13:14.960
submarines. I think we were left out of that conversation at all. Like there are some pretty
00:13:20.160
important conversations taking place, but it doesn't look like Canada's involved in many of them.
00:13:24.640
The one thing we are involved in which was initiated by Prime Minister Harper was our participation
00:13:33.600
training in Latvia and having a presence in Latvia next door to Russia.
00:13:41.600
We also had training in Ukraine and certainly we've had some praise for the fact that
00:13:48.000
that the tremendous heartfelt and tough effort that Ukrainians have been put under with Russia's
00:13:55.280
invasion, part of the reason they've been able to meet the challenges to date is because of earlier
00:14:02.480
training with Canadians. But as far as being left out of conversations, we know we are being left out
00:14:08.640
of conversations even within the Five Eyes Partnership, which is UK, US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
00:14:18.800
And that is very concerning. We need to be part of all those conversations. We need to
00:14:26.960
up our capacity and interoperability of our equipment with other allies. I think on NATO, particularly since
00:14:35.120
the invasion in Ukraine, we're definitely at the table, we're definitely seen as a valid NATO partner,
00:14:43.600
but we're still not doing our part. We're still not putting the investments in that we should be,
00:14:49.840
that we pledge to do. And you don't get there by just reallocating already allocated funds or by
00:14:57.920
lapsing spending, which they have done in recent time. You have to be serious, something they haven't
00:15:04.400
been. And we have to be serious about what we can do in the world. We've had, again, the Global Affairs
00:15:12.000
Minister say, well, you know, Canadians are more conveners. Well, that simply isn't true. Yes, we can convene,
00:15:20.800
but we're also fighters. We've showed our mettle. We've showed that we will step up and we will do the hard
00:15:26.800
jobs that need to be done. And that is very insulting to our troops, many who have laid their lives on the
00:15:32.800
line. Even in peacetime, we have naval ships that go out of Esquimalt and all the other naval harbors,
00:15:41.440
and they deploy for eight and nine months into the Gulf. It's a sacrifice to those families. It is
00:15:49.440
service above self by those in the military. And we should never forget that by saying we're just
00:15:56.240
conveners. That's insulting. Well, we'll probably finish on this because I believe we are running
00:16:02.960
out of time. But the Global Affairs Minister under fire, Melanie Jolie, for somehow allowing one of
00:16:10.400
her bureaucrats to attend a garden party at the Russian embassy here in Ottawa, apparently her excuse
00:16:16.720
is they were too busy to read the email sent to her staff and herself regarding that decision. Do they
00:16:24.800
approve? And apparently it got looked at. I don't know if Cheryl, you want to comment on that quickly?
00:16:28.880
It totally eclipses our goal of keeping Russia in its place and the sacrifices many are making with
00:16:38.800
respect to the restrictions on trade with Russia that have been put in place. Our farmers in particular,
00:16:45.520
every industry in Canada that interfaces with Russia is sacrificing. And yet she couldn't read an email
00:16:58.320
in order to ensure that we bypass that particular tea party to demonstrate to Ukraine that yes,
00:17:07.040
we are serious. We are behind you. And remember, this wasn't just any person who went,
00:17:12.400
it was deputy chief of protocol. That is true. So first of all, she made the decision to go.
00:17:17.600
Someone backed that decision. Emails were sent to the appropriate places saying she was going. They
00:17:23.360
said they were busy in LA, I think it was. So they couldn't read them. But how did it even happen in
00:17:29.920
the first place? Russia has a very sophisticated plan. It's a military plan, a food plan and an energy plan.
00:17:37.520
And they are not stopping their efforts to subjugate Ukraine and its people. And this is something that
00:17:45.360
should never be seen, even have the appearance of being taken lightly. It's a threat to all Western
00:17:52.480
democracies and the stability of the world. How is that not resonating in Global Affairs Canada?
00:17:59.520
Only under this government. I can't imagine it happening under our government.
00:18:03.680
And nobody in the department said, wait a second, this might be a bad idea.
00:18:08.080
It sounds implausible, which makes you wonder if others knew. I find it hard to believe the deputy
00:18:16.400
chief of protocol just did it all on her own. I agree. So I always give the guests the last word,
00:18:22.960
just a couple seconds to give your final thoughts on maybe the state of the nation, where you think
00:18:29.680
conservatives can take the defense file, what have you. The floor is yours. Carrie Lynn,
00:18:34.400
do you want to start? Well, we'll start with you.
00:18:36.960
So, as you may know, we had our NATO parliamentary assembly conference in spring recently.
00:18:44.480
And two things struck me. I was speaking to a congressman who was sitting in front of me,
00:18:50.480
and he was talking about how his sons had served in Afghanistan. And I said, oh, you know, the soldiers
00:18:58.080
back home, they call. And when I'm chatting with them, they ask, you know, we gave up a lot. We lost
00:19:06.640
our brothers, our sisters. Was it really worth it? How do I answer these soldiers when they wonder if all
00:19:17.920
that sacrifice that has been made and treasure and blood was worth it? And he said, man, you're only
00:19:25.520
counting the casualties. What we can never calculate are the successes, the people we saved, the people
00:19:33.840
who didn't die. So that was one message I took away. And then we also met with actual members of
00:19:42.000
parliament who were soldiers on the front lines of Ukraine, but who were allowed to come to this
00:19:48.000
conference. And I said, you know, the people in my writing really would like to be side by side with
00:19:54.080
you after they had trained you and but still be with you right now to help you through this conflict.
00:20:01.760
And he said, well, will you tell them that every success we have is because of that training.
00:20:08.000
Our successes are your successes. Well said. Carrie Lynn.
00:20:15.120
Well, I think conservatives have a stalwart history of patriotism and backing our military and
00:20:24.000
sometimes through very hard times and hard choices we've made as a government, too, to deploy in times
00:20:30.160
of conflict. In my own writing of South Surrey White Rock, we started a Canadian Walk for Veterans.
00:20:36.480
And this is something that's five years in now. We have 151 cities participating and even
00:20:45.040
people walking in Australia and the Netherlands because we don't interact enough with our military
00:20:51.520
as a Canadian public. Most of the bases have been moved away from urban centers. It's one of the
00:20:57.600
issues with recruitment is that a lot of people don't understand it. But conservatives know the
00:21:04.160
sacrifice. We appreciate it. And we want to always be shoulder to shoulder with our serving men and
00:21:11.120
women and our veterans, many of whom come back with unseen injuries that they deal with for a lifetime.
00:21:18.160
So I'm very proud of our commitment. And certainly a conservative government would take it all seriously.
00:21:26.880
And when we make announcements, we implement them. We don't make big announcements and then kind of figure
00:21:33.360
it out later or maybe let them lapse. We are true to our word. And I would like to see that going forward.
00:21:41.120
Well, thank you very much, both of you. Carrie Lynn Finley, a member of parliament for South Surrey
00:21:45.280
White Rock and the critic for national defense. Also beside her, Cheryl Gallant, a member of parliament
00:21:50.880
for Renfrew, Nipissing and Pembroke. Always a pleasure. Many more questions. Short on time,
00:21:56.320
sadly, but we'll get you back again. And we appreciate you joining in. As I said off the top,
00:22:00.560
this is probably a message you're not getting in the mainstream media. So please like, comment,
00:22:04.160
subscribe, share this program. New content every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern time.
00:22:09.280
Download it, listen to it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, Spotify,
00:22:13.440
you name it, it is out there. As always, low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's the blueprint.